Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:25 AM - Re: LP windshield fit -5 (kurt schrader)
2. 12:46 AM - Re: Carb heat options (kurt schrader)
3. 01:42 AM - Re: Carb heat options (michel)
4. 02:34 AM - Density Altitude WAS: Mass distribution (michel)
5. 05:10 AM - Re: Not So Funny Story (FREDERICKSON, JOHN L [AG/2067])
6. 06:06 AM - Density Altitude (hausding, sid)
7. 06:38 AM - Leading edge extrusions (hausding, sid)
8. 07:18 AM - Re: Density Altitude (Lowell Fitt)
9. 08:06 AM - Re: Funny story (Steve Cooper)
10. 10:12 AM - Re: Ground Loop (Scott McClintock)
11. 10:15 AM - Re: Ground Loop (Scott McClintock)
12. 12:27 PM - Re: Kitfox-List Off list for a week (RiteAngle3@aol.com)
13. 07:01 PM - Tires (Glenn Horne)
14. 08:35 PM - Re: Mass distribution WAS: The Jury is in Foxers (John E. King)
15. 09:01 PM - Re: Tires (Marc Arseneault)
16. 09:31 PM - Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 28 Msgs - 05/03/04 (tom)
17. 09:34 PM - Re: Ground Loop (John E. King)
18. 10:39 PM - Re: Mass distribution WAS: The Jury is in Foxers (jimshumaker)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: LP windshield fit -5 |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Oh oh. You are supposed to push the windscreen
against the cowl for a tight fit, then trim the sides
of the windscreen. Getting the cowl, panel cover and
windscreen to all come together at the right place is
a real chore. If you are off, better check your panel
cover for fit now too. If it is off here, it is off
there as well.
Kurt S.
--- Howard Firm <pianome2@mchsi.com> wrote:
>
> Kerry, My fit over the firewall is very tight
> also....I'm probably going to
> add to the rear of the top cowl to get a fit....I'm
> about 1" away now....
>
> Howard Firm
> 508 12th St. South
> Virginia MN 55792
__________________________________
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Carb heat options |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Kerry,
Take a look at this web site for an idea.
<http://www.skydrive.co.uk/sd_ch.htm>
If you have someone who can machine aluminum around,
it looks like you could take a piece at least 1cm
thick and fix up a heater like the one described. You
would drill out the center hole for the carb air flow
and mounting holes. Then drill four holes all the way
thru the edges for the fluid passages. Two holes at
opposite corners are threaded for fittings and the
rest are plugged shut at the corners. The coolant
just passes in one fitting, thru the 4 passages, 2 a
side, and out the other fitting. The passages have to
be big enough to get the metal hot enough to heat the
carb area metal above freezing. I think it just runs
all the time with little loss of power compared to the
air heaters.
Just a thought.
Kurt S.
--- Kerry Skyring <kerryskyring@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Sorry to raise this one again but it's "breaking our
> heads" as they say in Austria.
> We're an S5 with 912S and smooth cowl. We've
> basically given up on installing
> carb heat .....
__________________________________
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
Message 3
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| Subject: | Carb heat options |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: michel <michel@online.no>
>===== Original Message From kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>Take a look at this web site for an idea.
><http://www.skydrive.co.uk/sd_ch.htm>
Yes, that's what I have on my 582 and after one year of Norwegian flying I
can't say I ever had carb icing problems. The only inconvenience it may
create, as I discovered, is that, because it builds a thickness between the
carb and the filter(s), the latter is more prone to vibration and may come
loose, as it did once for me. Furthermore, and in my case, the filter comes
very near the frame and I suspect that it touches it when I fly uncoordinated
(remember my photo of it, Kurt?) Interestingly enough, this happens only when
I fly with a passenger (greater mass, greater torque on the engine mounts, I
guess) and with more than 50% power.
Otherwise, I think it is a great device.
Cheers,
Michel (who is checking his mail while packing for New York! :-)
Message 4
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| Subject: | Density Altitude WAS: Mass distribution |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: michel <michel@online.no>
>===== Original Message From kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>3. Consider DA!
Thanks a lot, Kurt! Can I get that in signed three copies document? :-)
As I was teaching meteorology and talking about Density Altitude, I realized
that few Norwegian microlight pilots were thinking much of it. Then - as a
graphic worker - I went to make my own DA chart. Here it is:
http://home.online.no/~michel/tmp/DA.pdf
(Note: the scales and units are for Norwegian conditions)
Then I went to the Norwegian Microlight Association asking if they wanted to
distribute the chart on their site. The answer was: "Njaaa, noooo, I don't
think it's a problem for our planes that have much power for little weight."
... what do you think?
... will read your answer from another continent! :-)
Michel
do not archive
Message 5
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| Subject: | Not So Funny Story |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "FREDERICKSON, JOHN L [AG/2067]" <john.l.frederickson@monsanto.com>
A little more farmy :),
Left to volunteer for pasture:
The wheat didn't grow back, as in lawn grass. Its seed grew. During harvest,
some wheat kernels (berries, as my father-in-law used to say), don't make it into
the bin. They fall to the ground and may germinate and grow into new wheat
plants.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: Roger McConnell [mailto:rdmac@swbell.net]
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Not So Funny Story
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Roger McConnell" <rdmac@swbell.net>
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Don Pearsall
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Not So Funny Story
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall" <donpearsall@comcast.net>
I guess it was funny, but I need a farmer's dictionary to get it.
The field had only been disked after harvest?
You cut the field into disks, or what?
Answer: The farmer used a plow that uses disks to turn the dirt.
Left to volunteer for pasture?
Answer: The wheat had been allowed to grow back after harvest so the cattle
could eat it.
The cows had been turned and it had rained?
Answer: The cows were allowed on to the field after it had rained. Wet
ground plus 4 hooves equal rough field.
Roger (Son of a poor dirt farmer) McConnell
Message 6
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| Subject: | Density Altitude |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "hausding, sid" <sidh@charter.net>
I do believe they are not realizing the importance of the DA components in
the flight envelopes that they might NEED to learn someday, the hard way...
..........or if they ever decide to move into larger aircraft. Remember,
most of us base our experiences in flying on the assumption that we are
always learning - everyday. Sounds like you ran into someone that doesn't
realize the need to know!
Push it again, or to someone else. Its a mighty fine looking reference that
they should all have for each of their aircraft no matter the design or the
horse power to weight ratio......bring that along and distribute when you
visit the boys in the DC area! :-)
Sid
--------------------------
Thanks a lot, Kurt! Can I get that in signed three copies document? :-)
As I was teaching meteorology and talking about Density Altitude, I realized
that few Norwegian microlight pilots were thinking much of it. Then - as a
graphic worker - I went to make my own DA chart. Here it is:
http://home.online.no/~michel/tmp/DA.pdf
(Note: the scales and units are for Norwegian conditions)
Then I went to the Norwegian Microlight Association asking if they wanted to
distribute the chart on their site. The answer was: "Njaaa, noooo, I don't
think it's a problem for our planes that have much power for little weight."
... what do you think?
... will read your answer from another continent! :-)
Michel
do not archive
Message 7
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| Subject: | Leading edge extrusions |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "hausding, sid" <sidh@charter.net>
Yes, like that idea. Easy to work with, not messy. Will see how much it
extends the cuff out from the leading edge.........don't think there is much
force on the cuff once installed and the cloth and paint should really
anchor the whole installation.............IMO. Been wrong before, but its
more cosmetic here than structural. Was just working on fairing in the tank
caps last night, ala Darrel. Starting to look like a little speedster.
Still all white, and still trying to make up my mind on graphics of paint
scheme, but in no hurry. No takers yet on my cheap beer offer for the
winning' design. Some ideas, but haven't chosen yet.
Sid
----------------------------------
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jeff Smathers <jsmathers@cybcon.com>
As a construction note:
Try using 3M superbond 2 sided adhesive tape instead of the epoxy.
It sticks so well after 24 hrs that I just about damaged the extrusion
trying to get it off to reposition it. Besides, you are going to use some
epoxy/baloon filleting and its going to be covered/glued down with fabric
It won't ever move.
Jeff Smathers
"hausding, sid" wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "hausding, sid" <sidh@charter.net>
>
> And Thank you Sir, I shall call Noel soon to check and see if indeed he is
> carrying them.......I am finishing my Avid Speedwing and looking for all
the
> fairing and speed mods to assist that stubby little wing for speed and to
> forestall the stall.................maybe even VG's too.
> Sid
> --------------------------------
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Thomas Moffitt" <tmoffitt@eatel.net>
>
> I bought mine for my Avid Speedwing from the predecessors of http://www
> blueskyaviation.net/catalog.html- Anicepter. You could try them.
> They furnished the Kitfox template for location. It was recommended by Mr
> Riblett to me as well. It just epoxies on the front of the spar. The
avid
> speedwing (w/o the undercamber is close to the 30-612 airfoil with the
cuff
> installed. The shim was for the kitfox models prior to the Kitfox IV.
> Tom Moffitt
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Density Altitude |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
Maybe I'll chip in a thought or two here. It seems to me that the first
forty hours and a lot of time after is when a person will learn the need of
density altitude concerns for his particular aircraft.
When I was flying my C-170, I would take off out of Concord's Buchanan
airport Eastbound, put it in the best rate of climb attitude and arrive at
the Sierras with enough altitude to comfortably clear the mountain ridges.
total distance about 100 miles and total altitude gain about 11,000 ft.
Now I fly out of Cameron Park, and can easily do the same in about 1/3 the
distance in the Kitfox and far more into the cruise attitude than climb
attitude. We fly the mountains often and frankly we seldom discus density
altitude. As is prudent, We fly mostly mornings, but this is largely due to
the air currents that develop mid day to afternoon.
A couple of years ago, Mark Ferkin and I stopped at Minden, NV for lunch on
the way back from Idaho. After lunch, we took off (elev. 4700 ft., temp
85) and Mark saw the ridge just to the west - 7 miles away and pointed his
airplane at the highest peak 9,100 ft. I knew immediately what he was
doing. He wanted to see if he could make it over the top. We both did and
at the time, I had baggage for the Skystar Fly-in and my wife on board. He
had the same except his son Ty was on board, but neither of us was above
maximum gross wt. My empty weight is just at 700 lbs and Marks comes in at
600 - I have a lot of junk in mine, carpets, etc.
Michael spent the day with us within a couple of weeks of his accident and
the first thing I noticed as he taxied up to our house was the splayed out
look of his landing gear. I don't know what he weighed at the time, but it
looked like a lot. There were a lot of issues that contributed to the
accident and as Kurt, I believe, mentioned, Michael's experience should
serve as a heads up to all of us. We have all made decisions as to
equipment, engines etc. It is prudent to learn the limitations of our
airplanes due to our choices.
Lowell
---- Original Message -----
From: "hausding, sid" <sidh@charter.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Density Altitude
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "hausding, sid" <sidh@charter.net>
>
> I do believe they are not realizing the importance of the DA components
in
> the flight envelopes that they might NEED to learn someday, the hard
way...
> ..........or if they ever decide to move into larger aircraft. Remember,
> most of us base our experiences in flying on the assumption that we are
> always learning - everyday. Sounds like you ran into someone that doesn't
> realize the need to know!
> Push it again, or to someone else. Its a mighty fine looking reference
that
> they should all have for each of their aircraft no matter the design or
the
> horse power to weight ratio......bring that along and distribute when you
> visit the boys in the DC area! :-)
>
> Sid
> --------------------------
>
>
> Thanks a lot, Kurt! Can I get that in signed three copies document? :-)
>
> As I was teaching meteorology and talking about Density Altitude, I
realized
> that few Norwegian microlight pilots were thinking much of it. Then - as a
> graphic worker - I went to make my own DA chart. Here it is:
>
> http://home.online.no/~michel/tmp/DA.pdf
>
> (Note: the scales and units are for Norwegian conditions)
> Then I went to the Norwegian Microlight Association asking if they wanted
to
> distribute the chart on their site. The answer was: "Njaaa, noooo, I don't
> think it's a problem for our planes that have much power for little
weight."
> ... what do you think?
>
> ... will read your answer from another continent! :-)
>
> Michel
> do not archive
>
>
Message 9
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" <spdrflyr@earthlink.net>
I have one...but it wasn't too funny at the time:
The morning began like many others, up at dawn...a quick cup of coffee and
I'm off to the hangar. I'm meeting my Hangar mate this morning (Dave flies
the J-3 Cubby). Well, we got the hangar doors open and started rolling out
airplanes. The sky was clear, but it was one of those days that you KNOW is
going to be a hot one. With the birds tucked neatly up on the ramp and ready
for takeoff, I returned once more to the hangar to get a bottle of water
from the fridge (it's nice to have a fridge in your hangar...you always have
a cold drink to offer visitors). I closed the hangar doors in preparation
for departure. I rememberd that I had a couple of battery packs in the bird
I didn't want to take along. I retrieved them and opened the hangar sliding
door again just enough to get inside. I heard Dave call me from outside, so
I walked back out...a friend was flying in, and we both watched his nice
landing...maybe Jack wants to go along with us. Jack Taxied up to the hangar
and I offerd him a coold drink which Jack eagerly accepted. So I slid open
the hangar door again and went inside to retrieve Jack's drink. I walked out
of the hangar...again and closed the hangar door...again. Jack, Dave and
myself were standing in front of the hangar doors...hangar talking and
developing a plan for the day. Suddenly Jack pulled up stiff as a
board...shoulders back with an expression of terror on his face. In the next
moment I heard YEEEEOOOOWWW as Jack, a tall man, launched himself high into
orbit. In the next instant, I felt Dave yanking me by the shirt sleeve.
What is it? Whaaaat? Dave hollered, "Look, EEOOOOOWWWWWWW man!" I turned my
head around and looked down, and what I saw on the ground took at least a
second and a half to process. Coiled up and ready to strike, was the
fattest, biggest Mojave Green Rattle Snake I have ever seen...buzzing like
crazy, it was only a couple of inches away from my foot. I never heard it!
Apparently, we had been walking over it all morning. Do I move? Do I freeze?
That snapper was ready to sink those big hypodermic needles into my leg. He
was mad as hell... puffed himself up, I'm a baaad boy, watch out! GET AWAY
FROM ME FLYBOY!" "I'M GOING TO SINK MY FANGS INTO YOUR BUTT AND PUMP AS
MUCH VENOM AS I CAN!" I knew he could strike three feet, my mind was
reeling. I froze! I told Jack and Dave to back off. They moved about 10 feet
away (Jack had already moved out of the immediate vicinity), but the snake
wasn't relaxing. GET AWAY BUDDY OR I'M GOING TO RUIN YOUR DAY! I didn't have
much of a choice... It was move and risk provoking the snake to strike or
continue to stand there and get bitten for sure. In a nano second I jumped
away. At that instant the Greener snapped out like a coiled spring. I felt
something brush the bottom of my tennis shoe. It got rubber but no meat!
It's fangs couldn't penetrate the sole of my shoe....I was safe. I checked
myself over pretty good after I was clear.... After giving the "Greener" a
little "love tap"...we were off on our flight! ;)
Steve
Message 10
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Scott McClintock <scott_mcclintock@dot.state.ak.us>
Michel,
Yes, I have been preparing myself, but I was really taken by surprise by this one.
When I took off on Saturday afternoon, the winds were from 040 @ 12 gusting to
18.
This was OK as the A/P R/W runs 3/21 so off we went (yes, I had a passenger)
taking off on R/W 3.
Great T/O and the 2 hr. local flight was fantastic and we got a lot of good
pictures and video of the fast leaving sea ice
and a huge herd of caribou (reindeer). On the way back to 94Z (my field) I called
FSS and they informed me that the wind were now from 220 light and variable. No
problem, I tell myself now we land on R/W 21. Got ourselves all set up, perfect
approach, "greased" the landing and my passenger congratulated me on a great
flight. No sooner did he get those words out when the wind made a sudden shift
from the west and we began drifting that direction. So, as a good tailwheel pilot,
I gave her some left rudder, IAS was 40 mph or less (my A/P indicator doesn't read
below 40 mph) I wasn't getting any rudder authority so I pushed left rudder fully
and gave it a shot of power to get some air over the rudder. Nothing, just kept
going right, now sliding, sliding, the wing tip touched and we stopped just short
of off the R/W.
My left spring gear bent inward, tailwheel bolts broke, dinged my wing tip and
flaperon tip. Had to tow her back with the tail on the tailgate of my pickup. I
have tried to not beat myself up too badly and I know I did everything I could
to
prevent this, but my ego is bruised. At least my passenger took it in stride and
has a great "Alaska Flying Story" to tell all his buddies when he returns to
Portland next week.
I'm going to seal the rudder gap and hope that it helps somewhat but when you are
going (maybe 35 mph) there's not much air passing over it anyway.
Some of the guys have suggested that the gear can be re-bent, but I'm not too keen
on that. I'm sure it is a Grove and maybe they will warranty it.
If not, it will cost me $950 to replace (ouch) plus whatever the freight is.
(SkyStar wants $1650, yeah, right)
Sure "bums me out" as I was going to fly her to Kotzebue yesterday to do a
surveying job and I had to spend money with the local air taxi guys instead.
I'm anxious to get her fixed and "get back into the saddle" soon.
Thanks for the sympathy.
Scott in Nome
DO NOT ARCHIVE
michel wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: michel <michel@online.no>
>
> >===== Original Message From Scott McClintock
> >Had the rudder to the floor but as the plane slowed I guess there
> >was just not enough air flowing over the rudder and the X-wind just spun
> >me around. Damn!
>
> I am very sorry to hear that, Scott!
> Since there are two types of taildragger pilots, the one who did a ground loop
> and those who will, I try to prepare myself mentally for that day, but ...
> Could it be an idea to gap-seal the rudder in order to have more authority in
> cross-wind?
> In my simulator, with the Kitfox I modelled, I can't prevent the plane to
> weathervane in more than 10 knots crosswind. I know, it's only a simulator but
> ... a good one, I think.
>
> Cheers,
> Michel
>
> do not archive
>
Message 11
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Scott McClintock <scott_mcclintock@dot.state.ak.us>
Sid, Yes I think I need to seal my rudder gap.
Send me some at: Scott McClintock
P.O. Box 1444 Nome, Alaska 99762
Thanks for thinking of me, I appreciate that.
Scott in Nome
DO NOT ARCHIVE
"hausding, sid" wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "hausding, sid" <sidh@charter.net>
>
> Scott,
> The 'test' roll of new plastic type tape (supposed to be better than the Ski
> Saver stuff) has arrived and I'm in the process of sharing it with other
> experienced users. I'm installing it on my Speedwing before I even test fly
> .....because I know it will have positive results from listening to other
> flyers.
> You are welcome to use it also, there is plenty to go around for awhile. We
> can test it, evaluate it, and then pass on the results to the company and
> others on the list.
> Will need your address if you're interested............
> Sid
> ---------------
>
> Could it be an idea to gap-seal the rudder in order to have more authority
> in
> cross-wind?
> Cheers,
> Michel
>
> do
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox-List Off list for a week |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: RiteAngle3@aol.com
Hi friends, I'm going to be off line for a week or so. I am stopping all
Matronics lists, so if important send direct to me, I hope to have internet
connections a couple times while gone.
Elbie
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 13
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Glenn Horne" <glennflys@rcn.com>
Glenn Horne here.
Looking fore some tires for my Fox model II.
Has tube gear.
Need two 20x7.00-8. Have the two slick ones
that came with the kit but really don't like them.
Anyone know who sells this size with tread?
Glenn Horne Suffolk, Va.
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Mass distribution WAS: The Jury is in Foxers |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John E. King " <kingjohn@erols.com>
Jim,
Michael was flying a Model IV-1200. It's baggage compartment was limited to only
40 pounds max. I know he was over grossed with full fuel while on the trip,
but I do not believe he had 150 pounds behind the seat which is the weight limit
for a Series 5, 6 & 7 cargo area. He carried a lot of weight in the right
seat.
--
John King
Warrenton, VA
jimshumaker wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jimshumaker" <jimshumaker@sbcglobal.net>
>
>I believe the 150 pounds of baggage behind the seats was contributed also.
>
>Jim Shumaker
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "John E. King " <kingjohn@erols.com>
>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Mass distribution WAS: The Jury is in Foxers
>
>
>>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John E. King " <kingjohn@erols.com>
>>
>>To Kurt, Bob, Michel & Others,
>>
>>This discussion has led one of my friends and I to think about Michael
>>
>>
>Harter's problem in that Arizona blind canon. His Model IV-1200 was powered
>by a Subaru. To correct for the forward CG he mounted the battery way back
>in the tail section. We were told by a whiteness that he completed 2 1/2
>turns prior to impact. The question has come to mind, whether Michael
>Harter could have been a victim of non-recovery from his spin because of the
>extreme aft placement of his battery?
>
>
>>--
>>John King
>>Warrenton, VA
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 15
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Marc Arseneault" <northernultralights@hotmail.com>
Hi Glenn,
I have a set of Tundra 8 X 6 tires for sale. If you are interested contact me off
the list at northernultralights@sympatico.ca.
Best Regards,
Marc Arseneault
Ontario Canada
Help protect your entire PC with Virus Guard from MSN Premium Get Two Months
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Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 28 Msgs - 05/03/04 |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: tom <ditapo@yahoo.com>
There was a system used on some very early airplanes a warmed water/alchohol injection
that was used for carb ice by a directed injection in the carb. I have
thought about it, I guess you could run a SS or copper tube around the exahust
to warm it up before injection in a mist via a standard AN primer nozzle. A
person could rig that up if you think it would only be a occasional emergency
use. Sorry that's all the details I have from a Jeppesen A&P textbook. I think
it was back in the radial airline days.
Kitfox-List Digest Server <kitfox-list-digest@matronics.com> wrote:*
==================================================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
==================================================
Today's complete Kitfox-List Digest can be also be found in either
of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest
formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked
Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII
version of the Kitfox-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic
text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/kitfox-list/Digest.Kitfox-List.2004-05-03.html
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/kitfox-list/Digest.Kitfox-List.2004-05-03.txt
================================================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
================================================
Kitfox-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Mon 05/03/04: 28
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:33 AM - Re: Ground Loop (michel)
2. 05:30 AM - Re: LP windshield fit -5 (Howard Firm)
3. 06:17 AM - Ground Loop (hausding, sid)
4. 08:06 AM - Re: OT (RiteAngle3@aol.com)
5. 08:58 AM - Re: LP windshield fit -5 (kurt schrader)
6. 09:02 AM - Re: Ground Loop (kurt schrader)
7. 10:56 AM - Re: LP windshield fit -5 (Rick)
8. 11:12 AM - Clear plastic stuff.........gap seal (hausding, sid)
9. 12:23 PM - Funny story (William J. Applegate)
10. 01:13 PM - Funny story (hausding, sid)
11. 01:33 PM - Re: LP windshield fit -5 (Kerry Skyring)
12. 01:40 PM - Re: Funny story (Bob Unternaehrer)
13. 01:44 PM - Re: Carb heat options (Kerry Skyring)
14. 02:11 PM - Re: LP windshield fit -5 (Howard Firm)
15. 02:13 PM - Funny story and not so funny time trying to get the URL right (William
J. Applegate)
16. 03:39 PM - Re: LP windshield fit -5 (Fox5flyer)
17. 03:46 PM - Not So Funny Story (Steve Cooper)
18. 04:43 PM - Re: Not So Funny Story (Don Pearsall)
19. 05:40 PM - Re: Funny story (DC91840@aol.com)
20. 06:19 PM - Re: Mass distribution WAS: The Jury is in Foxers (John E. King)
21. 06:36 PM - Re: Not So Funny Story (RiteAngle3@aol.com)
22. 06:36 PM - Re: Not So Funny Story (Roger McConnell)
23. 07:00 PM - Re:Leading edge extrusions (Thomas Moffitt)
24. 07:28 PM - Leading edge extrusions (hausding, sid)
25. 07:29 PM - Re: Mass distribution WAS: The Jury is in Foxers (JMCBEAN)
26. 08:15 PM - Re: Leading edge extrusions (Jeff Smathers)
27. 08:20 PM - Re: Mass distribution WAS: The Jury is in Foxers (RiteAngle3@aol.com)
28. 10:21 PM - Re: Mass distribution WAS: The Jury is in Foxers (jimshumaker)
________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
Time: 01:33:42 AM PST US
From: michel
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Ground Loop
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: michel
>===== Original Message From Scott McClintock
>Had the rudder to the floor but as the plane slowed I guess there
>was just not enough air flowing over the rudder and the X-wind just spun
>me around. Damn!
I am very sorry to hear that, Scott!
Since there are two types of taildragger pilots, the one who did a ground loop
and those who will, I try to prepare myself mentally for that day, but ...
Could it be an idea to gap-seal the rudder in order to have more authority in
cross-wind?
In my simulator, with the Kitfox I modelled, I can't prevent the plane to
weathervane in more than 10 knots crosswind. I know, it's only a simulator but
... a good one, I think.
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
Time: 05:30:01 AM PST US
From: "Howard Firm"
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: LP windshield fit -5
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Howard Firm"
Thanks Kurt, Did you have a hard time getting the upper side areas under the
metal lip? It seems like the windshield is slightly too wide where it forms
around the wing root.
Howard
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
> You should have at least 70 degrees before bending and
> drilling. Even warmer is better. Sunshine helps too.
> Heat lamps might work well. I didn't like my heatgun
> results... Too consentrated even when sweeping the
> gun. You can get stress and distortions elsewhere.
>
> Make sure to line up the back edge with the overhead
> rear crossmember to get the right length at the top
> too. You may need to trim the sides back to fit.
> Mine wouldn't reach.
>
> Kurt S.
>
> --- Howard Firm
wrote:
>
> > I'm trying to fit my preformed
> > windshield to the strait cowling on my -5 ....
> > If I squeeze the sides on the windshield together,
> > I can get the front to bow out, but I'm putting a
> > lot of stress there...has anyone used a heat gun...
________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________
Time: 06:17:08 AM PST US
From: "hausding, sid"
Subject: Kitfox-List: Ground Loop
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "hausding, sid"
Scott,
The 'test' roll of new plastic type tape (supposed to be better than the Ski
Saver stuff) has arrived and I'm in the process of sharing it with other
experienced users. I'm installing it on my Speedwing before I even test fly
.....because I know it will have positive results from listening to other
flyers.
You are welcome to use it also, there is plenty to go around for awhile. We
can test it, evaluate it, and then pass on the results to the company and
others on the list.
Will need your address if you're interested............
Sid
---------------
Could it be an idea to gap-seal the rudder in order to have more authority
in
cross-wind?
Cheers,
Michel
do
________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________
Time: 08:06:21 AM PST US
From: RiteAngle3@aol.com
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: OT
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: RiteAngle3@aol.com
Kurt & others,
Nothing political was meant by my message, just that I appreciate all the
Vets have done for us here in the US.
All of my family are thankful for those who were in the military, Reserve,
National Guard or Regulars.
Elbie
________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________
Time: 08:58:13 AM PST US
From: kurt schrader
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: LP windshield fit -5
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
Yes Howard,
That was the worst area, though it wasn't that bad.
I already see some light crazing around those tight
turns though. I do believe that the window is much
more pliable when it is hot out and will have less
stress for life if installed warm.
In my case, I ended up with that back edge a little
short and had to devise my own attachment back there
to connect to the turtledeck. I probably should have
waited until it was hotter, or provided more general
heat myself, then trimmed those top side edges more.
I just didn't want to push it with forcing the window
back anymore on top, at the time.
For the $500, it might be worth the wait to let it
adjust to the frame slowly, unless you can put some
general heat to it. I suggest setting it in there and
leave it clamped at the bottom and back. Over a few
days, slowly moving it back into position until the
edges are entirely set, bottom to top. Heat or time
will reduce the stress, unless there is too much too
fast.
Don't the instructions say 70 degrees or above? I got
that from somewhere.
Kurt S.
--- Howard Firm
wrote:
>
> Thanks Kurt, Did you have a hard time getting the
> upper side areas under the
> metal lip? It seems like the windshield is slightly
> too wide where it forms
> around the wing root.
>
> Howard
__________________________________
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________
Time: 09:02:06 AM PST US
From: kurt schrader
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ground Loop
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
Sid,
Can any of us get on your list for a tape sample? I
would like to test the stuff too.
Kurt S.
--- "hausding, sid" wrote:
> Scott,
> The 'test' roll of new plastic type tape (supposed
> to be better than the Ski
> Saver stuff) has arrived and I'm in the process of
> sharing it with other
> experienced users. I'm installing it on my
> Speedwing before I even test fly
> .....because I know it will have positive results
> from listening to other flyers.
> You are welcome to use it also, there is plenty to
> go around for awhile. We
> can test it, evaluate it, and then pass on the
> results to the company and
> others on the list.
> Will need your address if you're
> interested............
> Sid
__________________________________
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________
Time: 10:56:27 AM PST US
From: "Rick"
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: LP windshield fit -5
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick"
Howard, just a note. When I installed my one piece LP windshield it was very
hot out, good thing. However. The bend next to root was a bear. I ended up
cutting quite a bit away. I am also almost done with some fiberglass covers
to take the place of the flat aluminum one. What a job. If you like I will
look for some pic of my install.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Howard Firm
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: LP windshield fit -5
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Howard Firm"
Thanks Kurt, Did you have a hard time getting the upper side areas under the
metal lip? It seems like the windshield is slightly too wide where it forms
around the wing root.
Howard
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
> You should have at least 70 degrees before bending and
> drilling. Even warmer is better. Sunshine helps too.
> Heat lamps might work well. I didn't like my heatgun
> results... Too consentrated even when sweeping the
> gun. You can get stress and distortions elsewhere.
>
> Make sure to line up the back edge with the overhead
> rear crossmember to get the right length at the top
> too. You may need to trim the sides back to fit.
> Mine wouldn't reach.
>
> Kurt S.
>
> --- Howard Firm
wrote:
>
> > I'm trying to fit my preformed
> > windshield to the strait cowling on my -5 ....
> > If I squeeze the sides on the windshield together,
> > I can get the front to bow out, but I'm putting a
> > lot of stress there...has anyone used a heat gun...
________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________
Time: 11:12:46 AM PST US
From: "hausding, sid"
Subject: Kitfox-List: Clear plastic stuff.........gap seal
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "hausding, sid"
Absolutely. We need all the people we can get to let others know anyhoo..
...so, like John did with the CD's let's get some kind of list going. Not
sure how to do it. Others have expressed an interest and on the Avid list
also. I guess we can start the list now, it won't take long to mail between
people and the use of is something pretty simple and uncomplicated to apply,
and won't take long for each one of us............right? If everyone will
send me their address, I will start a list and notify the receiver of the
next of kin, so to speak. If someone has a better way, let us (me) know. I
will try to be efficient and expediant. The price to use this stuff will
be the cost to send it on to the next user..............about one pound UPS
delivery to the next address, or Postal, however one would chose to send.
Couple of bucks, maybe? The roll is about the size of a new roll of duct
tape.
Sid
sidh@charter.net
-----------------------------------
Can any of us get on your list for a tape sample? I
would like to test the stuff too.
,
> The 'test' roll of new plastic type tape (supposed
> to be better than the Ski
> Saver stuff) has arrived and I'm in the process of
> sharing it with other
> experienced users. I'm installing it on my
> Speedwing before I even test fly
> .....because I know it will have positive results
> from listening to other flyers.
> You are welcome to use it also, there is plenty to
> go around for awhile. We
> can test it, evaluate it, and then pass on the
> results to the company and
> others on the list.
> Will need your address if you're
> interested............
__________________________________
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________
Time: 12:23:19 PM PST US
From: "William J. Applegate"
Subject: Kitfox-List: Funny story
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "William J. Applegate"
Hi Troops,
Ran across this little tidbit and thought you might enjoy and possibly
learn from it. I sure did. Maybe you have one you'd like to share.
http://www.ultralight.ca/pilots_corner/clayton_fisher.
Best regards to all..........Bill Applegate......Tucson,
AZ..............Series 7
Do Not Archive.
________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________
Time: 01:13:08 PM PST US
From: "hausding, sid"
Subject: Kitfox-List: Funny story
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "hausding, sid"
I took the liberty to amend the url for correctness.............ahem.
Sid
Ran across this little tidbit and thought you might enjoy and possibly
learn from it. I sure did. Maybe you have one you'd like to share.
http://www.ultralight.ca/pilots_corner/clayton_fisher.html
Best regards to all..........Bill Applegate......Tucson,
AZ..............Series 7
________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________
Time: 01:33:03 PM PST US
From: "Kerry Skyring"
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: LP windshield fit -5
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kerry Skyring"
Howard we are sort of at the same point. (S5 with smooth cowl) The screen
doesn't quite fit snug to the lip on the cowl. We have quite a tight fit
between firewall and cowl and wonder whether we've cut enough firewall
away to allow the cowl to come back and down far enough to meet the screen.
Anyway we're thinking that maybe we can use some heat to bend the
lip on the firewall back to meet the screen and close up the small gap
we still have. Not sure if this will work but will let you know and would
appreciate any other comments from 5 owners on getting a good
seal between cowl and screen.
Kerry
>Hey guys and gals!!! I'm trying to fit my preformed windshield to the
>strait
>cowling on my -5 and the front of the windshield doesn't have enough
>"curve"
>
>
________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________
Time: 01:40:45 PM PST US
From: "Bob Unternaehrer"
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Funny story
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Unternaehrer"
neither one worked for me.
----- Original Message -----
From: "hausding, sid"
Subject: Kitfox-List: Funny story
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "hausding, sid"
>
> I took the liberty to amend the url for correctness.............ahem.
> Sid
> --------------
>
>
> Ran across this little tidbit and thought you might enjoy and possibly
> learn from it. I sure did. Maybe you have one you'd like to share.
>
> http://www.ultralight.ca/pilots_corner/clayton_fisher.html
>
> Best regards to all..........Bill Applegate......Tucson,
> AZ..............Series 7
>
>
> ---
>
>
---
________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________
Time: 01:44:53 PM PST US
From: "Kerry Skyring"
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Carb heat options
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kerry Skyring"
Sorry to raise this one again but it's "breaking our heads" as they say in
Austria.
We're an S5 with 912S and smooth cowl. We've basically given up on
installing
carb heat because respected members of the list say it's redundant and
in any case Skystar don't stock the system any more. But we are under
quite a bit of peer pressure from the local hangar experts to do something
towards warming those carbs. Legend has it there's a Kitfox in the English
channel as a result of carb ice. How they know it was carb ice if it's in
the
channel has not been explained.... We're also aware of the Austrian winter
and the ever present threat of carb ice.
At Sun N Fun Hans (the owner) saw on the Rotax stand a carb heat
system using engine coolant instead of exhaust heat. Around $250.
Can any lister share experience/knowledge/tips. We want to get on
and fly....
Kerry- the builders helper.
PS Hans says to thank the S5 owner who was at Sun N Fun. He
took heaps of fotos and gave it a good going over.
>
>
________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________
Time: 02:11:50 PM PST US
From: "Howard Firm"
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: LP windshield fit -5
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Howard Firm"
Kerry, My fit over the firewall is very tight also....I'm probably going to
add to the rear of the top cowl to get a fit....I'm about 1" away now....
Howard Firm
508 12th St. South
Virginia MN 55792
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kerry Skyring"
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: LP windshield fit -5
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kerry Skyring"
>
> Howard we are sort of at the same point. (S5 with smooth cowl) The screen
> doesn't quite fit snug to the lip on the cowl. We have quite a tight fit
> between firewall and cowl and wonder whether we've cut enough firewall
> away to allow the cowl to come back and down far enough to meet the
screen.
>
> Anyway we're thinking that maybe we can use some heat to bend the
> lip on the firewall back to meet the screen and close up the small gap
> we still have. Not sure if this will work but will let you know and would
> appreciate any other comments from 5 owners on getting a good
> seal between cowl and screen.
> Kerry
>
>
> >Hey guys and gals!!! I'm trying to fit my preformed windshield to the
> >strait
> >cowling on my -5 and the front of the windshield doesn't have enough
> >"curve"
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________
Time: 02:13:33 PM PST US
From: "William J. Applegate"
Subject: Kitfox-List: Funny story and not so funny time trying to get the URL right
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "William J. Applegate"
Hi Troops,
Ran across this little tidbit and thought you might enjoy and possibly
learn from it. I sure did. Maybe you have one you'd like to share.
http://www.ultralight.ca/pilots_corner/clayton_fisher.htm
Best regards to all..........Bill Applegate......Tucson,
AZ..............Series 7
Do Not Archive.
________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________
Time: 03:39:18 PM PST US
From: "Fox5flyer"
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: LP windshield fit -5
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer"
I doubt you'll have much luck bending the lip on the cowling, even with
heat. Actually, the windshield is supposed to be pushed forward and mated
=== message truncated ===
---------------------------------
Message 17
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|
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John E. King " <kingjohn@erols.com>
Scott,
If it is a grove spring gear, I'm sure they will fix it for you. Check
it out and give them a call. Your tail wheel bolts are a weak point in
the early Kitfoxes. They have been known to shear when there is a high
side load on the tail. I would suggest that you upgrade those two bolts
to the next larger diameter. That means that the two sleeves may have
to have a larger ID. While you are at it, why not replace the support
plate with a thicker material. It is very easy to fabricate.
--
John King
Warrenton, VA
Scott McClintock wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Scott McClintock <scott_mcclintock@dot.state.ak.us>
>
>Michel,
>Yes, I have been preparing myself, but I was really taken by surprise by this
one.
>
>When I took off on Saturday afternoon, the winds were from 040 @ 12 gusting to
18.
>
>This was OK as the A/P R/W runs 3/21 so off we went (yes, I had a passenger)
>taking off on R/W 3.
>Great T/O and the 2 hr. local flight was fantastic and we got a lot of good
>pictures and video of the fast leaving sea ice
>and a huge herd of caribou (reindeer). On the way back to 94Z (my field) I called
>FSS and they informed me that the wind were now from 220 light and variable. No
>problem, I tell myself now we land on R/W 21. Got ourselves all set up, perfect
>approach, "greased" the landing and my passenger congratulated me on a great
>flight. No sooner did he get those words out when the wind made a sudden shift
>from the west and we began drifting that direction. So, as a good tailwheel pilot,
>I gave her some left rudder, IAS was 40 mph or less (my A/P indicator doesn't
read
>below 40 mph) I wasn't getting any rudder authority so I pushed left rudder fully
>and gave it a shot of power to get some air over the rudder. Nothing, just kept
>going right, now sliding, sliding, the wing tip touched and we stopped just short
>of off the R/W.
>My left spring gear bent inward, tailwheel bolts broke, dinged my wing tip and
>flaperon tip. Had to tow her back with the tail on the tailgate of my pickup.
I
>have tried to not beat myself up too badly and I know I did everything I could
to
>prevent this, but my ego is bruised. At least my passenger took it in stride and
>has a great "Alaska Flying Story" to tell all his buddies when he returns to
>Portland next week.
>I'm going to seal the rudder gap and hope that it helps somewhat but when you
are
>going (maybe 35 mph) there's not much air passing over it anyway.
>Some of the guys have suggested that the gear can be re-bent, but I'm not too
keen
>on that. I'm sure it is a Grove and maybe they will warranty it.
>If not, it will cost me $950 to replace (ouch) plus whatever the freight is.
>(SkyStar wants $1650, yeah, right)
>Sure "bums me out" as I was going to fly her to Kotzebue yesterday to do a
>surveying job and I had to spend money with the local air taxi guys instead.
>I'm anxious to get her fixed and "get back into the saddle" soon.
>Thanks for the sympathy.
>Scott in Nome
>
>DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>michel wrote:
>
>
>
Message 18
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|
| Subject: | Re: Mass distribution WAS: The Jury is in Foxers |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jimshumaker" <jimshumaker@sbcglobal.net>
John
Thank you for your speculation about what he might have had. My comment was
about what I saw him loaded with and discussed with him at the Kitfox flyin.
I expressed surprise and concern at the load and position but he assured me
that it was OK. I can not comment on what he had loaded or where it was
loaded in AZ.
Jim Shumaker
----- Original Message -----
From: "John E. King " <kingjohn@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Mass distribution WAS: The Jury is in Foxers
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John E. King " <kingjohn@erols.com>
>
> Jim,
>
> Michael was flying a Model IV-1200. It's baggage compartment was limited
to only 40 pounds max. I know he was over grossed with full fuel while on
the trip, but I do not believe he had 150 pounds behind the seat which is
the weight limit for a Series 5, 6 & 7 cargo area. He carried a lot of
weight in the right seat.
>
> --
> John King
> Warrenton, VA
>
> jimshumaker wrote:
>
> >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jimshumaker"
<jimshumaker@sbcglobal.net>
> >
> >I believe the 150 pounds of baggage behind the seats was contributed
also.
> >
> >Jim Shumaker
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "John E. King " <kingjohn@erols.com>
> >To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> >Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Mass distribution WAS: The Jury is in Foxers
> >
> >
> >>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John E. King " <kingjohn@erols.com>
> >>
> >>To Kurt, Bob, Michel & Others,
> >>
> >>This discussion has led one of my friends and I to think about Michael
> >>
> >>
> >Harter's problem in that Arizona blind canon. His Model IV-1200 was
powered
> >by a Subaru. To correct for the forward CG he mounted the battery way
back
> >in the tail section. We were told by a whiteness that he completed 2 1/2
> >turns prior to impact. The question has come to mind, whether Michael
> >Harter could have been a victim of non-recovery from his spin because of
the
> >extreme aft placement of his battery?
> >
> >
> >>--
> >>John King
> >>Warrenton, VA
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
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