Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:10 AM - Highlight Two (Matt Dralle)
2. 12:17 AM - Rudder Cover & Pad (Guy Buchanan)
3. 12:45 AM - Re: Re: Kitfox front spar splice (Guy Buchanan)
4. 12:45 AM - Re: Mass Balance weights. (Guy Buchanan)
5. 12:45 AM - Re: Mass Balance weights. (Guy Buchanan)
6. 04:09 AM - Looking for nosewheel assy (Dan Billingsley)
7. 05:02 AM - Re: Auxiliary 13 Gal Fuel Tanks (Don Smythe)
8. 06:11 AM - Re: Re: Kitfox front spar splice (flier)
9. 06:56 AM - Re: Mass Balance weights. (Lowell Fitt)
10. 07:27 AM - Re: Mass Balance weights. (Paul Peerenboom)
11. 08:15 AM - Re: Re: Kitfox front spar splice (Tom Jones)
12. 08:23 AM - Re: Mass Balance weights. (Randy Daughenbaugh)
13. 08:23 AM - Re: Is a picture of your plane on the Kitfox history? (Randy Daughenbaugh)
14. 08:26 AM - Another Alternative Engine (Norm Beauchamp)
15. 08:42 AM - Re: new guys a couple of questions. (Brent Owens)
16. 08:49 AM - Re: Looking for nosewheel assy (NELSON GOGUEN)
17. 09:10 AM - Re: Is a picture of your plane on the Kitfox (Harris, Robert)
18. 09:27 AM - 3M structural adhesive Scotch Weld? (Harris, Robert)
19. 09:33 AM - Re: looking for counter balance weights (Eric Osmond)
20. 10:18 AM - Heater installation on M4/912 (Donald STEVENSON)
21. 10:47 AM - Re: Mass Balance weights. (John Anderson)
22. 11:02 AM - Re: Looking for nosewheel assy (John Disher)
23. 12:22 PM - Re: Is a picture of your plane on the Kitfox history? (Lowell Fitt)
24. 12:25 PM - Re: Looking for nosewheel assy (Jeremy Casey)
25. 01:05 PM - Re: Heater installation on M4/912 (Jay Fabian)
26. 01:33 PM - Re: Heater installation on M4/912 (Donald STEVENSON)
27. 01:35 PM - Re: Is a picture of your plane on the Kitfox history ? (Paul Seehafer)
28. 01:57 PM - http://kitfox.lazair.com/skystar/ (Harris, Robert)
29. 02:26 PM - Re: Elevator assyElevator assy (owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com)
30. 02:54 PM - Re: Looking for nosewheel assy (AMuller589@aol.com)
31. 03:20 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox front spar splice (AMuller589@AOL.COM)
32. 03:20 PM - Re: Auxiliary 13 Gal Fuel Tanks (John King)
33. 04:02 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox front spar splice (AMuller589@aol.com)
34. 04:13 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox front spar splice (AMuller589@aol.com)
35. 04:13 PM - Re: looking for counter balance weights (Steve Zakreski)
36. 04:29 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox front spar splice (jdmcbean)
37. 05:35 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox front spar splice (Ronald K. Stevens)
38. 05:37 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox front spar splice (AMuller589@aol.com)
39. 05:47 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox front spar splice (Tom Jones)
40. 07:35 PM - Re: Is a picture of your plane on the Kitfox history? (Randy Daughenbaugh)
41. 09:34 PM - Re: 3M structural adhesive Scotch Weld? (kurt schrader)
Message 1
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
Please make a Contribution to support the continued operation and
upgrade of the Email List Forums at Matronics. There is no
commercial advertising on any of the Lists to support their
operation, and it is solely YOUR CONTRIBUTIONS that keeps these Lists
up and running. Please take a second to make your Contribution today
at the secure website:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Below is a highlight of another one of the awesome Free Gifts
available along with this year's List Fund Raiser. In most cases,
these gifts have been either donated or provided at exceptional
discounts by aviation vendors that participate regularly on these
vary same Lists. I want to thank each of them for the generous
support of the Lists during this Fund Raiser. Please show your
support for their efforts by visiting their respective web sites.
Thank you for your kind support!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Gift Highlight Number Two - Mechanics's Toolbox CD - Builder's Bookstore *
With your $60 or greater List Contribution, you can register to
receive a free copy of the 2005 edition of John Schwaner's Mechanic's
Toolbox CD. It is essentially a computerized version of the
Mechanic's Handbook, and highlights the needs of powerplant
technicians working with reciprocating engines. The CD contains two
basic sections. The first is a mechanics guide to inspecting,
troubleshooting and operating Lycoming and Continental engines. The
second is a Mechanic's Toolbox offering many of the most useful items
typically found in printed Mechanic's Handbooks and a few other handy
items not found anywhere else. Works with Windows 98, ME, NT, 2000, XP.
To receive your copy, visit the List Contribution Web site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
* This gift is provided by Andy Gold of The Builder's Bookstore
http://www.buildersbooks.com/
do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | Rudder Cover & Pad |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
Hi all!
I'm looking for the rudder cover and pad, (for travel with wings
folded,) for a K-IV 1200. Does anybody have one they want to get rid of?
Thanks,
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99.9% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Do not archive
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox front spar splice |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 07:37 PM 11/15/2005, you wrote:
>One (?) expert says the splice and weld would reinforce the small
>area of the aluminum spar that loses its temper so as not to affect the
>overall strength of the splice.
Some thoughts from an engineer:
* It sounds like a pretty good ground-loop. How does he feel about the
rest of the wing? Is he going to fly with a parachute from now on?
* Putting a splice on over the leading edge tube will pretty well screw
up the airfoil due to the added thickness. This may be a problem out at the
tip if it stalls before the root.
* Welding 6061-T6 aluminum returns it to T0 temper, which has about 1/4
the strength. You might recover that with the splice if it was designed
VERY CAREFULLY. You'd be better bonding than welding because you don't
loose any material strength.
* The flexure of the forward spar is going to be quite different than
the aft spar. This will, however, decrease the angle of attack at the tip,
effectively adding wash-out, which is good.
* I'm guessing that with some good engineering and some good epoxy, you
could splice the LE tube using an internal splice plate. The splice plate
might work in aluminum, or you could use 7075-T351, or possibly a custom
pre-preg S-glass tube.
Good luck!
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99.9% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Mass Balance weights. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 03:05 PM 11/15/2005, you wrote:
>He said they are often 85 to 95% balance. Now I'm no expert and
>I'm just passing this on but it looks to me that you don't have a real
>concern.
Probably true.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99.9% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Do not archive
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Mass Balance weights. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 08:38 PM 11/15/2005, you wrote:
>Our
>flapperons might tend to flutter quite rapidly, but
>you just can't get those heavy weights to change
>direction that fast, so they stop the flutter, even if
>they don't entirely balance the surface weight.
The purpose of the balance weight is so that when the aileron is loaded, it
does not try to increase the load response with a concomitant increase in
angle of attack. Let's say you're doing flutter testing. You fly at Vno and
rap hard on the stick laterally. This causes a very brief angle of attack
on the aileron which causes the wing trailing edge to deform vertically.
The deformation carries the aileron with it. If the result of the trailing
edge deformation is to INCREASE the aileron angle of attack, then you have
a closed loop feed-back system which drives the deflection. This will
happen if the mass balance is inadequate. (Pull up on the aileron hinge. If
the mass balance is light, the aileron deflects down, increasing the up
force on the hinge, increasing the deflection, etc.) If the mass balance
perfectly matches the aileron, then the aileron simply translates without a
change of angle for any trailing edge deflection. Therefore no flutter.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99.9% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Looking for nosewheel assy |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Dan Billingsley <dan@azshowersolutions.com>
Hello
I'm in the process of changing a Kitfox IV tail dragger to a tri-gear...Does anyone
know of a nosewheel assembly out there available?
Dan B.
Mesa, AZ
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Auxiliary 13 Gal Fuel Tanks |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
I once talked (long time ago) with the SS tank supplier but have no idea who
or where he's located.
Do Not Archive
Don Smythe
----- Original Message -----
From: "Donald STEVENSON" <shericom@rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Auxiliary 13 Gal Fuel Tanks
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Donald STEVENSON <shericom@rogers.com>
>
> --Thanks Don for the info, I'm in Canada and several
> of our gas brands have 10% alcohol, I'll have to see
> if I can find out which ones don't. As for replacing
> the tanks, do you know of a supplier? Don
>
>
> - Don Smythe <dosmythe@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe"
>> <dosmythe@cox.net>
>>
>> Don,
>> See below
>>
>> > has anyone drilled and installed fittings in to an
>> > existing tank, and if so did you have any
>> problems?
>>
>> One problem with drilling and installing fittings in
>> a tank is the fact that
>> the fiberglass is real thin and not thick enough to
>> support tapping for
>> threads. The factory drilled holes have a raised
>> boss on the inside of the
>> tank to give the extra thickness for threads. If
>> you drill through the thin
>> parts you will need to epoxy a boss on the outside
>> of the tank then
>> drill/tap through the whole thing. I did do this
>> when adding a tank vent
>> and it worked just fine.
>>
>> > 2, My 2nd question is regarding a WARNING in the
>> > construction manual as follows: DO NOT USE
>> GASOLINE
>> > THAT HAS METHANOL OF ALCOHOL ADDITIVES (GASOHOL)
>> IN
>> > THIS FIBERGLASS TANK. IF THESE FUELS ARE USED, IT
>> WILL
>> > CAUSE A BREAKDOWN OF THE RESIN USED IN ITS
>> > MANUFACTURE. THESE FUELS ARE STRICTLY PROHIBITED.
>>
>> This general discussion has occured many times. The
>> statement that is in
>> your instructions is the first (that I remember)
>> that mentions gasohol will
>> destroy the fiberglass tanks. I was always always
>> doubtful that such a
>> statement existed. You have made my doubts fade
>> away. I can't think of a
>> fool proof solution to get around that situation
>> except don't use alcohol
>> or, replace the tanks.
>>
>> Don Smythe
>>
>>
>>
>> Click on
>> about
>> provided
>> www.buildersbooks.com,
>> Admin.
>> _->
>> browse
>> Subscriptions page,
>> FAQ,
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox front spar splice |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" <FLIER@sbcglobal.net>
Replace the spar. Even a radial deep scratch or scar
in the area near the insert can be a problem. The
spars are subjected to continuous flexing and the
aluminum tube cannot be welded in such a manner that
would be structurally sound.
Regards,
Ted
--- Original Message ---
From: AMuller589@aol.com
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox front spar splice
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AMuller589@aol.com
>
>It sounds like several people have ground-looped. We
did too in our Kitfox
>V, and broke the front wing spar at the lift strut
attach point just outboard
>of the H insert. The aircraft repair-mans manual
shows how to repair a steel
>tube spar slipping an oversize section of tubing
over it and spot welding
>through holes in the outer tube or welding along
the edges. The length of the
>splice is dictated by inner tube diameter, and the
splice tube has either
>fish-mouth or 30 degree end cuts. Would this be
O.K. for the 2.25 inch diameter
>aluminum spar? One (?) expert says the splice and
weld would reinforce the small
>area of the aluminum spar that loses its temper so
as not to affect the
>overall strength of the splice. Any comments or has
anyone a different idea? only
>the outer three ribs and wing tip were damaged and
will be replaced. Thanks
>in advance. Al Muller 281-480-4461. in Houston, TX
>
>
>_-
======================================================
======
Click on
about
provided
www.buildersbooks.com,
Admin.
>_->_-
======================================================
======
browse
Subscriptions page,
FAQ,
List
>_-
======================================================
======
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Mass Balance weights. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
I guess what I was asking, "What do you mean by not balancing as they
should.", has to do with the fact that the Model IV was the most heavily
produced version of the Kitfox design and there has never been an issue of
flaperon flutter. My thought is that whatever they are doing, it seems
perfectly fine in practice. There have been lots of reports of redline
flying with no reports of mass balance isssues flutter.
Over the years there have been lots of builders that percieved design flaws
in the basic Kitfox design - myself included. But then in time you see tons
of guys that built strictly according to the book and their airplanes fly
just fine and sometimes with a bit more performance because they left off
all the stuff that just make for heavy airplanes. I fly regularly with a
guy who is almost 100 lbs lighter than I am empty. And am reminded of this
regularly.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Guy Buchanan" <bnn@nethere.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Mass Balance weights.
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
>
> At 08:38 PM 11/15/2005, you wrote:
>>Our
>>flapperons might tend to flutter quite rapidly, but
>>you just can't get those heavy weights to change
>>direction that fast, so they stop the flutter, even if
>>they don't entirely balance the surface weight.
>
> The purpose of the balance weight is so that when the aileron is loaded,
> it
> does not try to increase the load response with a concomitant increase in
> angle of attack. Let's say you're doing flutter testing. You fly at Vno
> and
> rap hard on the stick laterally. This causes a very brief angle of attack
> on the aileron which causes the wing trailing edge to deform vertically.
> The deformation carries the aileron with it. If the result of the trailing
> edge deformation is to INCREASE the aileron angle of attack, then you have
> a closed loop feed-back system which drives the deflection. This will
> happen if the mass balance is inadequate. (Pull up on the aileron hinge.
> If
> the mass balance is light, the aileron deflects down, increasing the up
> force on the hinge, increasing the deflection, etc.) If the mass balance
> perfectly matches the aileron, then the aileron simply translates without
> a
> change of angle for any trailing edge deflection. Therefore no flutter.
>
>
> Guy Buchanan
> K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99.9% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Mass Balance weights. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Peerenboom" <ppeerenbo@charter.net>
I would like to add 2 cents. I fly a model IV with the one balance weight
per flaperon.
But as an A&P worked for an Air line I have checked the balance on many
ailerons & elevators.
All on knife edges. None balance until you add the manufacture check weights
to the correct location (for arm) and must be between x and y weight
tolerance. I hope you can visualize this. The weight is hung from the aft
edge in a cup and is so many grams. We can adjust the weight in the control
to bring them in balance, but they don't balance just on the knife edges.
They always go trailing edge up when you remove the check weight.
Paul N102DG
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Mass Balance weights.
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
>
> I guess what I was asking, "What do you mean by not balancing as they
> should.", has to do with the fact that the Model IV was the most heavily
> produced version of the Kitfox design and there has never been an issue of
> flaperon flutter. My thought is that whatever they are doing, it seems
> perfectly fine in practice. There have been lots of reports of redline
> flying with no reports of mass balance isssues flutter.
>
> Over the years there have been lots of builders that percieved design
> flaws
> in the basic Kitfox design - myself included. But then in time you see
> tons
> of guys that built strictly according to the book and their airplanes fly
> just fine and sometimes with a bit more performance because they left off
> all the stuff that just make for heavy airplanes. I fly regularly with a
> guy who is almost 100 lbs lighter than I am empty. And am reminded of
> this
> regularly.
>
> Lowell
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Guy Buchanan" <bnn@nethere.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Mass Balance weights.
>
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
>>
>> At 08:38 PM 11/15/2005, you wrote:
>>>Our
>>>flapperons might tend to flutter quite rapidly, but
>>>you just can't get those heavy weights to change
>>>direction that fast, so they stop the flutter, even if
>>>they don't entirely balance the surface weight.
>>
>> The purpose of the balance weight is so that when the aileron is loaded,
>> it
>> does not try to increase the load response with a concomitant increase in
>> angle of attack. Let's say you're doing flutter testing. You fly at Vno
>> and
>> rap hard on the stick laterally. This causes a very brief angle of attack
>> on the aileron which causes the wing trailing edge to deform vertically.
>> The deformation carries the aileron with it. If the result of the
>> trailing
>> edge deformation is to INCREASE the aileron angle of attack, then you
>> have
>> a closed loop feed-back system which drives the deflection. This will
>> happen if the mass balance is inadequate. (Pull up on the aileron hinge.
>> If
>> the mass balance is light, the aileron deflects down, increasing the up
>> force on the hinge, increasing the deflection, etc.) If the mass balance
>> perfectly matches the aileron, then the aileron simply translates without
>> a
>> change of angle for any trailing edge deflection. Therefore no flutter.
>>
>>
>> Guy Buchanan
>> K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99.9% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox front spar splice |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Tom Jones <nahsikhs@elltel.net>
I think he will find that the spar I beam insert rivet heads will
interfere with slipping a tube over the spar. As someone else pointed
out, a tube over the spar would ruin the shape of the wing anyhow.
Having rebuilt a wing with a bent spar due to groundlooping, I can say
It was not as bad a job as I first thought it would be. The nice thing
about these airplanes is that they are very repairable.
Tom Jones
AMuller589@aol.com wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AMuller589@aol.com
>
>Thanks for your input. I am writing on behalf of a friend who does not use
>the computer and I mistakenly said the wing broke at the strut attach point. I
>went back and reviewed his pictures and it actually broke at the third rib
>from the wingtip and which coincides with the left the H insert which is
>intact. I apologize for the mistake and hope that will facilitate the repair.
>
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Mass Balance weights. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh" <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
I am tossing my 2 cents worth.
I think Kurt and Rex have it right. The weights are to stop flutter! Not
balance as some have described. (It may be a bad choice for a name.)
Besides, the flaperons "balance" through the linkage with or without the
"balance weights. That concept of balance is NOT what they are for. The
weights are to add torsional inertia to the flaperons to prevent flutter.
Randy
.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Peerenboom
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Mass Balance weights.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Peerenboom" <ppeerenbo@charter.net>
I would like to add 2 cents. I fly a model IV with the one balance weight
per flaperon.
But as an A&P worked for an Air line I have checked the balance on many
ailerons & elevators.
All on knife edges. None balance until you add the manufacture check weights
to the correct location (for arm) and must be between x and y weight
tolerance. I hope you can visualize this. The weight is hung from the aft
edge in a cup and is so many grams. We can adjust the weight in the control
to bring them in balance, but they don't balance just on the knife edges.
They always go trailing edge up when you remove the check weight.
Paul N102DG
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Mass Balance weights.
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
>
> I guess what I was asking, "What do you mean by not balancing as they
> should.", has to do with the fact that the Model IV was the most heavily
> produced version of the Kitfox design and there has never been an issue of
> flaperon flutter. My thought is that whatever they are doing, it seems
> perfectly fine in practice. There have been lots of reports of redline
> flying with no reports of mass balance isssues flutter.
>
> Over the years there have been lots of builders that percieved design
> flaws
> in the basic Kitfox design - myself included. But then in time you see
> tons
> of guys that built strictly according to the book and their airplanes fly
> just fine and sometimes with a bit more performance because they left off
> all the stuff that just make for heavy airplanes. I fly regularly with a
> guy who is almost 100 lbs lighter than I am empty. And am reminded of
> this
> regularly.
>
> Lowell
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Guy Buchanan" <bnn@nethere.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Mass Balance weights.
>
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
>>
>> At 08:38 PM 11/15/2005, you wrote:
>>>Our
>>>flapperons might tend to flutter quite rapidly, but
>>>you just can't get those heavy weights to change
>>>direction that fast, so they stop the flutter, even if
>>>they don't entirely balance the surface weight.
>>
>> The purpose of the balance weight is so that when the aileron is loaded,
>> it
>> does not try to increase the load response with a concomitant increase in
>> angle of attack. Let's say you're doing flutter testing. You fly at Vno
>> and
>> rap hard on the stick laterally. This causes a very brief angle of attack
>> on the aileron which causes the wing trailing edge to deform vertically.
>> The deformation carries the aileron with it. If the result of the
>> trailing
>> edge deformation is to INCREASE the aileron angle of attack, then you
>> have
>> a closed loop feed-back system which drives the deflection. This will
>> happen if the mass balance is inadequate. (Pull up on the aileron hinge.
>> If
>> the mass balance is light, the aileron deflects down, increasing the up
>> force on the hinge, increasing the deflection, etc.) If the mass balance
>> perfectly matches the aileron, then the aileron simply translates without
>> a
>> change of angle for any trailing edge deflection. Therefore no flutter.
>>
>>
>> Guy Buchanan
>> K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99.9% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Is a picture of your plane on the Kitfox history? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh" <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
What site is this that you are talking about?
Thanks,
Randy
.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lowell Fitt
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Is a picture of your plane on the Kitfox history?
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
I just checked out the site and yes that is my Model IV in front of my
house. My guess it was taken at one of the Cameron Park fly-ins.
Lowell
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Harris, Robert" <Robert_Harris@intuit.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Is a picture of your plane on the Kitfox history?
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert"
> <Robert_Harris@intuit.com>
>
> Thanks Lowell,
> By the Way,
>
> Is a picture of your plane on the Kitfox history?
>
> Robert
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Another Alternative Engine |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Norm Beauchamp <nebchmp@wcc.net>
The latest issue of http:// www.CONTACTMagazine.com
<http://%20www.CONTACTMagazine.com>
there is an article on the Revmaster R-3000 engine. It is the latest,
reengineered design of the VW engine by Joe Horvart.
http://www.revmasteravation.com
This is something that is much needed by experimental builders here in
the USA. I wish it had shown up sooner. If you choose to go the site
the site, click on" under development" to see the new engine.
If you aren't familiar with CONTACT magazine I encourage you to check it
out. It provide a great service to the experimental builder. And there
are no advertisements.
On another note. I am hoping to turn high prices gasoline into noise
once again very soon. The latest from Norm's Skunk Works is nearing
completion. However there is nothing stealthily about it.
Later- Norm
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: new guys a couple of questions. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Brent Owens" <bowens2@insight.rr.com>
Thanks for your input guys.
ref:Hi,
> I'm new to the list and I am looking to aquire a kitfox in the near
> future (January). I am really interested in the STOL capabilities as I
> would love to be able to operate out of my house. I have 520' of very
> flat ground with basically no obstacles on one end (one way in-one way
> out). Is this just too short for a light kitfox I,II, or III? And are
> those the best STOL models in the lineup? I am in central OH at
> around 700'MSL and I weight 160lbs.
> Also, I have roughly 500hrs in tailwheels and have 6000+hrs across 40+
> aircraft types (corporate jets to ultralights).
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Brent
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Looking for nosewheel assy |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "NELSON GOGUEN" <mino2@verizon.net>
Dan B.
I have an original Vixen nose wheel strut. It doesn't include the wheel
assembly or the mounting blocks. I'm using an upgraded nose wheel strut I
bought from Skystar. I would think a machine shop could produce the peices
that are missing.
Nelson
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Billingsley" <dan@azshowersolutions.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Looking for nosewheel assy
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Dan Billingsley
> <dan@azshowersolutions.com>
>
> Hello
> I'm in the process of changing a Kitfox IV tail dragger to a
> tri-gear...Does anyone know of a nosewheel assembly out there available?
> Dan B.
> Mesa, AZ
>
>
>
Message 17
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history ?
| Subject: | Is a picture of your plane on the Kitfox |
history ?
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert" <Robert_Harris@intuit.com>
The site I saw it on was posted by the lazir group. Look back though the
posts from a few days ago and you will see a link that somebody put out.
Hey Shorty, are you still around and are you the one that put the skystar
info on the lazir servers?
Robert
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy
Daughenbaugh
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Is a picture of your plane on the Kitfox history?
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh"
<rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
What site is this that you are talking about?
Thanks,
Randy
.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lowell Fitt
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Is a picture of your plane on the Kitfox history?
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
I just checked out the site and yes that is my Model IV in front of my
house. My guess it was taken at one of the Cameron Park fly-ins.
Lowell
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Harris, Robert" <Robert_Harris@intuit.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Is a picture of your plane on the Kitfox history?
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert"
> <Robert_Harris@intuit.com>
>
> Thanks Lowell,
> By the Way,
>
> Is a picture of your plane on the Kitfox history?
>
> Robert
>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | 3M structural adhesive Scotch Weld? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert" <Robert_Harris@intuit.com>
How hot can the 3M structural Adhesive become before it breaks loose?
I used 3M structural adhesive in my engine compartment to attach a lean rich
mixture.
Also I attached the lean rich mixture to the engine support brackets. Is
that okay? I
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: looking for counter balance weights |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Eric Osmond <eoeonote@yahoo.com>
Thanks Kurt, I'm located in Southern California.
Kitfox IV-1200, NSI EA-81, with cap 140 prop.
Eric
--- kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com> wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
> <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>
> Hi Eric,
>
> You can still get a lot of the info and support you
> need right here. I think I learned more on this
> list
> than from either manufacturer myself. Just ask and
> read.
>
> I was wondering where you are located, just in case
> there is another KF owner nearby to assist too?
>
> Kurt S. S-5
>
> --- Eric Osmond <eoeonote@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > <eoeonote@yahoo.com>
> >
> > Hi, all.
> > I am attempting to finish a kitfox iv-1200 that
> I've
> > been working on slowly for the last 12 years. All
> > covered now, engine mounted, instruments purchased
> > and really only lacking the electrical system. My
> lack
> > of engineering background meant frequent calls to
> both
> > Skystar and NSI (also now gone) for explanations
> and
> > advice. I'm debating now whether or not it is
> > feasable for me to finish the project with my
> > limited construction skills and the lack of
> support
> for the
> > electric prop (also NSI), engine, and airplane,
> but
> > I'm pressing on until that decision becomes clear
> > one way or the other............
>
>
>
> __________________________________
>
>
>
> Click on
> about
> provided
> www.buildersbooks.com,
> Admin.
> _->
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
Message 20
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| Subject: | Heater installation on M4/912 |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Donald STEVENSON <shericom@rogers.com>
Hi people, I'm looking for information on the single
heater installation for a M4 Speedster with a 912
engine with a spider tank in the cooling system. The
plumbing instructions I have are for the older 912
without the spider tank. Thanks, Don
Message 21
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| Subject: | Mass Balance weights. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail.com>
The weights are to stop flutter! (AND TO BASH YOUR HEAD ON!)
Don't archive..
From: "Randy Daughenbaugh" <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Mass Balance weights.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh"
<rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
I am tossing my 2 cents worth.
I think Kurt and Rex have it right. The weights are to stop flutter! Not
balance as some have described. (It may be a bad choice for a name.)
Besides, the flaperons "balance" through the linkage with or without the
"balance weights. That concept of balance is NOT what they are for. The
weights are to add torsional inertia to the flaperons to prevent flutter.
Randy
.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Peerenboom
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Mass Balance weights.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Peerenboom" <ppeerenbo@charter.net>
I would like to add 2 cents. I fly a model IV with the one balance weight
per flaperon.
But as an A&P worked for an Air line I have checked the balance on many
ailerons & elevators.
All on knife edges. None balance until you add the manufacture check weights
to the correct location (for arm) and must be between x and y weight
tolerance. I hope you can visualize this. The weight is hung from the aft
edge in a cup and is so many grams. We can adjust the weight in the control
to bring them in balance, but they don't balance just on the knife edges.
They always go trailing edge up when you remove the check weight.
Paul N102DG
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Mass Balance weights.
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
>
>I guess what I was asking, "What do you mean by not balancing as they
>should.", has to do with the fact that the Model IV was the most heavily
>produced version of the Kitfox design and there has never been an issue of
>flaperon flutter. My thought is that whatever they are doing, it seems
>perfectly fine in practice. There have been lots of reports of redline
>flying with no reports of mass balance isssues flutter.
>
>Over the years there have been lots of builders that percieved design
>flaws
>in the basic Kitfox design - myself included. But then in time you see
>tons
>of guys that built strictly according to the book and their airplanes fly
>just fine and sometimes with a bit more performance because they left off
>all the stuff that just make for heavy airplanes. I fly regularly with a
>guy who is almost 100 lbs lighter than I am empty. And am reminded of
>this
>regularly.
>
>Lowell
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Guy Buchanan" <bnn@nethere.com>
>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Mass Balance weights.
>
>
>>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
>>
>>At 08:38 PM 11/15/2005, you wrote:
>>>Our
>>>flapperons might tend to flutter quite rapidly, but
>>>you just can't get those heavy weights to change
>>>direction that fast, so they stop the flutter, even if
>>>they don't entirely balance the surface weight.
>>
>>The purpose of the balance weight is so that when the aileron is loaded,
>>it
>>does not try to increase the load response with a concomitant increase in
>>angle of attack. Let's say you're doing flutter testing. You fly at Vno
>>and
>>rap hard on the stick laterally. This causes a very brief angle of attack
>>on the aileron which causes the wing trailing edge to deform vertically.
>>The deformation carries the aileron with it. If the result of the
>>trailing
>>edge deformation is to INCREASE the aileron angle of attack, then you
>>have
>>a closed loop feed-back system which drives the deflection. This will
>>happen if the mass balance is inadequate. (Pull up on the aileron hinge.
>>If
>>the mass balance is light, the aileron deflects down, increasing the up
>>force on the hinge, increasing the deflection, etc.) If the mass balance
>>perfectly matches the aileron, then the aileron simply translates without
>>a
>>change of angle for any trailing edge deflection. Therefore no flutter.
>>
>>
>>Guy Buchanan
>>K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99.9% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Become a fitness fanatic @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/health
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Looking for nosewheel assy |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Disher" <jdisher@intergate.com>
The idea of a tri-gear Kitfox is indeed appealling, but I think there is a
lot involved there. Has anyone really done the research? Where do you mount
the main gear? If too far back there will be too much strain on the nose
gear and if too far forward it could easily become a tri-gear with a shaved
tail. Where and how do you mount the nose gear? I would sure be interested
if someone has any answers. I admit it. I'm not a good tailwheel pilot.
Thirty years flying tricycle gears has ruined me, plus I have trouble
transitioning between my V-tail Bonanza and the Fox. I'm all ears
-------Original Message-------
From: Dan Billingsley
Subject: Kitfox-List: Looking for nosewheel assy
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Dan Billingsley <dan@azshowersolutions
com>
Hello
I'm in the process of changing a Kitfox IV tail dragger to a tri-gear...Does
anyone know of a nosewheel assembly out there available?
Dan B.
Mesa, AZ
Message 23
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|
| Subject: | Re: Is a picture of your plane on the Kitfox history? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Randy,
Go to: http://kitfox.lazair.com/skystar/
Click on Aircraft History in the column and my airplane is just after the
Model IV section.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Daughenbaugh" <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Is a picture of your plane on the Kitfox history?
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh"
> <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
>
> What site is this that you are talking about?
>
> Thanks,
> Randy
>
> .
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lowell Fitt
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Is a picture of your plane on the Kitfox
> history?
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
>
> I just checked out the site and yes that is my Model IV in front of my
> house. My guess it was taken at one of the Cameron Park fly-ins.
>
> Lowell
>
> Do not archive
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Harris, Robert" <Robert_Harris@intuit.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Is a picture of your plane on the Kitfox history?
>
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert"
>> <Robert_Harris@intuit.com>
>>
>> Thanks Lowell,
>> By the Way,
>>
>> Is a picture of your plane on the Kitfox history?
>>
>> Robert
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Looking for nosewheel assy |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jeremy Casey" <n79rt@kilocharlie.us>
Here's something to think about...nosegear for Series 5...29 pounds
;-)
Jeremy Casey
"Vixen becoming a taildragger" builder...
-----Original Message-----
From: John Disher [mailto:jdisher@intergate.com]
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Looking for nosewheel assy
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Disher" <jdisher@intergate.com>
The idea of a tri-gear Kitfox is indeed appealling, but I think there is
a
lot involved there. Has anyone really done the research? Where do you
mount
the main gear? If too far back there will be too much strain on the nose
gear and if too far forward it could easily become a tri-gear with a
shaved
tail. Where and how do you mount the nose gear? I would sure be
interested
if someone has any answers. I admit it. I'm not a good tailwheel pilot.
Thirty years flying tricycle gears has ruined me, plus I have trouble
transitioning between my V-tail Bonanza and the Fox. I'm all ears
-------Original Message-------
From: Dan Billingsley
Subject: Kitfox-List: Looking for nosewheel assy
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Dan Billingsley
<dan@azshowersolutions
com>
Hello
I'm in the process of changing a Kitfox IV tail dragger to a
tri-gear...Does
anyone know of a nosewheel assembly out there available?
Dan B.
Mesa, AZ
Message 25
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|
| Subject: | Re: Heater installation on M4/912 |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jay Fabian" <experimental208nd@comcast.net>
Hi Don,
What do you need for info? A pic of a real install or just the page scanned?
Let me know
Jay
Kitfox 4-1200 w/ 912UL ( Still for sale :' )
----- Original Message -----
From: "Donald STEVENSON" <shericom@rogers.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Heater installation on M4/912
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Donald STEVENSON <shericom@rogers.com>
> Mime-Version: 1.0
>
> Hi people, I'm looking for information on the single
> heater installation for a M4 Speedster with a 912
> engine with a spider tank in the cooling system. The
> plumbing instructions I have are for the older 912
> without the spider tank. Thanks, Don
>
>
> --
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>
>
Message 26
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|
| Subject: | Re: Heater installation on M4/912 |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Donald STEVENSON <shericom@rogers.com>
--- Jay Fabian <experimental208nd@comcast.net> wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jay Fabian"
> <experimental208nd@comcast.net>
>
> Hi Don,
> What do you need for info? A pic of a real install
> or just the page scanned?
> Let me know
> Jay
> Kitfox 4-1200 w/ 912UL ( Still for sale :' )
>
Hi Jay, The paged scanned would be great, Yhanks for
you help, Best Regards, Don
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Donald STEVENSON" <shericom@rogers.com>
> To: "Kitfox List" <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Heater installation on M4/912
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Donald
> STEVENSON <shericom@rogers.com>
> > Mime-Version: 1.0
> >
> > Hi people, I'm looking for information on the
> single
> > heater installation for a M4 Speedster with a 912
> > engine with a spider tank in the cooling system.
> The
> > plumbing instructions I have are for the older 912
> > without the spider tank. Thanks, Don
> >
> >
> > --
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Click on
> about
> provided
> www.buildersbooks.com,
> Admin.
> _->
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 27
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|
| Subject: | Re: Is a picture of your plane on the Kitfox history ? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps@tznet.com>
All,
That lazair.com site has all of the old Skystar site information on it, and
is pegged to be another Kitfox forum site that will allow both pictures and
video attachments (easily and free). Check it out if you haven't already.
http://kitfox.lazair.com/skystar/
Paul Seehafer
----- Original Message -----
From: "Harris, Robert" <Robert_Harris@intuit.com>
> The site I saw it on was posted by the lazir group. Look back though the
> posts from a few days ago and you will see a link that somebody put out.
>
> Robert
Message 28
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|
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert" <Robert_Harris@intuit.com>
Hey Paul,
I'm glad that this info is available to us. Who was kind enough to host
this?
Robert
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Seehafer
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Is a picture of your plane on the Kitfox history ?
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps@tznet.com>
All,
That lazair.com site has all of the old Skystar site information on it, and
is pegged to be another Kitfox forum site that will allow both pictures and
video attachments (easily and free). Check it out if you haven't already.
http://kitfox.lazair.com/skystar/
Paul Seehafer
Message 29
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|
| Subject: | Re: Elevator assyElevator assy |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by:
What is the difference between the elevator on a kitfox 4 and -5??
Thanks
Geir Olav
Message 30
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|
| Subject: | Re: Looking for nosewheel assy |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AMuller589@aol.com
I am in favor of tricycle KFs also. From my experiences with Series Vs it
appears that each landing with tail-wheels is more dangerous than an off field
landing with tri-gear. Has my builder done something wrong, such as c.g.,
misaligned gear, etc? We found that by moving the cg from the forward position
to the center of the envelope it seemed to be more docile but two flights
after doing that we had a ground-loop on T.O..Post ground loop inspections showed
that two or more of the four 7/32 bolts holding the axle to the Grove
landing gear had partially stripped and allowed some wobble in the left wheel,
and
thus contributed at least partially to the instability of a 8 knot crosswind
t.o. During the crash all four retaining bolts on the left mlg hub stripped
and the left wheel came off. Two of the 4 each 7/32 bolts holding the hub to
the Grove MLG showed signs of short repeated stripping/wear.
The builder said he checked with the factory 5 years ago about conversion
to/from tricycle and tailwheel but was told tailwheel to tricycle would require
factory modification. Apparently the second set of lugs behind the MLG lugs
are for skis or floats and he was told they were not suitable for the main
landing gear (MLG). I have not checked for cg but they appear to be close to
the proper position for tricycle MLG and worthy of check out. When I first saw
the Kitfox V, I immediately thought the aft set of lugs was for converting to
tricycle with a Grumman Tiger type of castering nose gear. That appears to be
an easy NLG to make. Anyone had any experience in converting the gear?
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox front spar splice |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AMuller589@aol.com
Thanks Tom Jones _nahsikhs@elltel.net _ (mailto:nahsikhs@elltel.net ) but
my question is HOW did you repair the wing spar. I am not doing the work, only
helping a friend who can't use the internet, but I would think the rivets
into the I beam (H beam) woul pass through the inner and outer tube and into
the Spar insert. You stated "Having rebuilt a wing with a bent spar due to
ground looping, I can say It was not as bad a job as I first thought it would
be.
The nice thing
about these airplanes is that they are very repairable.". I would very much
like to know how this repair was made so easy. Your help would be very much
appreciated.
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Auxiliary 13 Gal Fuel Tanks |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: John King <kingjohne@adelphia.net>
Donald,
Another solution would be to use Avgas, but if you do, then add TCP as
directed.
--
John King
Warrenton, VA
Donald STEVENSON wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Donald STEVENSON <shericom@rogers.com>
>
>--Thanks Don for the info, I'm in Canada and several
>of our gas brands have 10% alcohol, I'll have to see
>if I can find out which ones don't. As for replacing
>the tanks, do you know of a supplier? Don
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox front spar splice |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AMuller589@aol.com
thanks for your input Guy and these are problems we are worried about. I am
wondering if there is someone who has actually repaired a wing spar
successfully and how they did it. I remembered a friend who is a super structural
engineer on aircraft and he is now working on a solution but I appreciate all
inputs and will keep them for advisement and then make a decision.
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox front spar splice |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AMuller589@aol.com
Thank you for the input Ted and Others have said that also. Does that
mean no one has ever successfully repaired a spar? I found a repair technique
for tubular steel spars in the "Aircraft Repair Manual" but it does not
specifically include aluminum, so I am concerned about its applicability. I
remembered a friend who is a super structural engineer on commercial aircraft
and
have asked his opinion and will post any recommendation from him.
Message 35
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|
| Subject: | looking for counter balance weights |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Steve Zakreski <szakreski@shaw.ca>
I fly a Kitfox IV, NSI EA81, and CAP, and fly with one weight per wing. No
problems so far.
SteveZ
Calgary
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric Osmond
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: looking for counter balance weights
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Eric Osmond <eoeonote@yahoo.com>
Thanks Kurt, I'm located in Southern California.
Kitfox IV-1200, NSI EA-81, with cap 140 prop.
Eric
--- kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com> wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
> <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>
> Hi Eric,
>
> You can still get a lot of the info and support you
> need right here. I think I learned more on this
> list
> than from either manufacturer myself. Just ask and
> read.
>
> I was wondering where you are located, just in case
> there is another KF owner nearby to assist too?
>
> Kurt S. S-5
>
> --- Eric Osmond <eoeonote@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > <eoeonote@yahoo.com>
> >
> > Hi, all.
> > I am attempting to finish a kitfox iv-1200 that
> I've
> > been working on slowly for the last 12 years. All
> > covered now, engine mounted, instruments purchased
> > and really only lacking the electrical system. My
> lack
> > of engineering background meant frequent calls to
> both
> > Skystar and NSI (also now gone) for explanations
> and
> > advice. I'm debating now whether or not it is
> > feasable for me to finish the project with my
> > limited construction skills and the lack of
> support
> for the
> > electric prop (also NSI), engine, and airplane,
> but
> > I'm pressing on until that decision becomes clear
> > one way or the other............
>
>
>
> __________________________________
>
>
>
> Click on
> about
> provided
> www.buildersbooks.com,
> Admin.
> _->
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox front spar splice |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Best advise.... Replace the spar and spar insert.. If it were one bay one
may get away with a splice if done correctly or one could just go with a
short wing version and remove one bay on both wings... I can offer spars and
spar inserts.
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
AMuller589@aol.com
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox front spar splice
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AMuller589@aol.com
Thank you for the input Ted and Others have said that also. Does that
mean no one has ever successfully repaired a spar? I found a repair
technique
for tubular steel spars in the "Aircraft Repair Manual" but it does not
specifically include aluminum, so I am concerned about its applicability. I
remembered a friend who is a super structural engineer on commercial
aircraft and
have asked his opinion and will post any recommendation from him.
Message 37
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|
| Subject: | Re: Kitfox front spar splice |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ronald K. Stevens" <rkstevens@verizon.net>
Wow! I didn't know John could get spars & inserts. Way to go John! Best
advice so far is to just replace the spars. Buy 'em from John. You'll be
happy that you replaced them in the long run. No worries. Probably much
faster too.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jdmcbean
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox front spar splice
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Best advise.... Replace the spar and spar insert.. If it were one bay one
may get away with a splice if done correctly or one could just go with a
short wing version and remove one bay on both wings... I can offer spars and
spar inserts.
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
AMuller589@aol.com
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox front spar splice
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AMuller589@aol.com
Thank you for the input Ted and Others have said that also. Does that
mean no one has ever successfully repaired a spar? I found a repair
technique
for tubular steel spars in the "Aircraft Repair Manual" but it does not
specifically include aluminum, so I am concerned about its applicability. I
remembered a friend who is a super structural engineer on commercial
aircraft and
have asked his opinion and will post any recommendation from him.
Message 38
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|
| Subject: | Re: Kitfox front spar splice |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AMuller589@aol.com
thanks for the reply, it broke at the end of the I beam insert (at 3rd rib).
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox front spar splice |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Tom Jones <nahsikhs@elltel.net>
See my replies below.
Tom Jones
AMuller589@aol.com wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AMuller589@aol.com
>
>Thanks Tom Jones _nahsikhs@elltel.net _ (mailto:nahsikhs@elltel.net ) but
>my question is HOW did you repair the wing spar. I am not doing the work, only
>helping a friend who can't use the internet, but I would think the rivets
>into the I beam (H beam) woul pass through the inner and outer tube and into
>the Spar insert.
>
The existing I beam insert ends at the #8 rib which I gather is where
the break is. The existing insert rivet heads will prevent slipping a
tube over the spar here.
> You stated "Having rebuilt a wing with a bent spar due to
>ground looping, I can say It was not as bad a job as I first thought it would
be.
> The nice thing
>about these airplanes is that they are very repairable.". I would very much
>like to know how this repair was made so easy. Your help would be very much
>appreciated.
>
>
Well , I salvaged all the reusable parts off the damaged wing and bought
two new spars and inserts and rebuilt the wing from scratch. For what
its worth my damaged wing didn't look that bad. I didn't even detect
the bent rear spar until after I had the plane back in my shop and put a
string along the spars to check them. The rear spar was bent at the #5
rib which is the inboard end of the spar insert. The front spar was
okay but I had no way to replace the rear spar without totally
dismantling the wing. Being that I was this far into it, a new front
spar and insert seemed like cheep insurance to make sure it would be
truly a "New" wing.
My best suggestion is, remove the fabric and inspect the wing
carefully. If the only damage is to the front spar and outboard ribs,
he may be able to replace just those pieces without dismantling
everything else. He would need to build a saw horse jig as shown in the
construction manual. Remove the damaged ribs and drag tubes from the
outboard end, then secure the damaged wing to the jig, support and
secure the front of the remaining ribs before removing the front spar.
This may be worth a try as there is nothing to lose. If it doesn't look
like it is going to work out, then he can still take the whole thing
apart and start from scratch.
>
>
Message 40
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| Subject: | Is a picture of your plane on the Kitfox history? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh" <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
Thanks Lowell! Yup, I found your plane.
That is a good history. I learned a few things.
Randy
Do not archive.
.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lowell Fitt
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Is a picture of your plane on the Kitfox history?
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Randy,
Go to: http://kitfox.lazair.com/skystar/
Click on Aircraft History in the column and my airplane is just after the
Model IV section.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Daughenbaugh" <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Is a picture of your plane on the Kitfox history?
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh"
> <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
>
> What site is this that you are talking about?
>
> Thanks,
> Randy
>
> .
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lowell Fitt
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Is a picture of your plane on the Kitfox
> history?
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
>
> I just checked out the site and yes that is my Model IV in front of my
> house. My guess it was taken at one of the Cameron Park fly-ins.
>
> Lowell
>
> Do not archive
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Harris, Robert" <Robert_Harris@intuit.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Is a picture of your plane on the Kitfox history?
>
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert"
>> <Robert_Harris@intuit.com>
>>
>> Thanks Lowell,
>> By the Way,
>>
>> Is a picture of your plane on the Kitfox history?
>>
>> Robert
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: 3M structural adhesive Scotch Weld? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Hi Harris,
No, structural adhesives forward of the firewall are
not a good idea. I think we all get tempted to use
them, but they will not hold up in an emergency when
things get hot and will only add to your troubles.
Use clamps instead.
Plastics can start softening as low as 160 degrees.
The higher temp ones start around 225 degrees. You'd
have to call 3M and see what they say, but I think
aluminum, softening at 1100 degrees, is as low a heat
temp as I want for anything important fwd of the
firewall. I doubt that 3M epoxy is that good.
Make sure that when you attach an engine control to
the engine mounts or airframe for support it doesn't
change your setting when the engine moves on its
mounts. It is better to mount control cable ends
somewhere on the engine side of the lord mounts so
everything moves together. Otherwise you may find
that changing power changes your mixture too and not
in a way that pleases you.
Kurt S.
--- "Harris, Robert" <Robert_Harris@intuit.com> wrote:
>
> How hot can the 3M structural Adhesive become before
> it breaks loose?
>
> I used 3M structural adhesive in my engine
> compartment to attach a lean rich mixture.
>
> Also I attached the lean rich mixture to the engine
> support brackets. Is that okay?
__________________________________
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