Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:46 AM - Re: (Michel Verheughe)
2. 05:46 AM - Re: Coordinated turns to base and final (Clem Nichols)
3. 05:56 AM - Re: Coordinated turns to base and final (Clem Nichols)
4. 06:03 AM - Re: KF2 Tail (Bob)
5. 06:20 AM - Re: GPS. WAS: ASIs (Bradley M Webb)
6. 06:47 AM - Re: Re: GPS (Lynn Matteson)
7. 07:09 AM - Re: Re: GPS (dave)
8. 07:20 AM - Re: Coordinated turns to base and final (kitfoxmike)
9. 07:22 AM - Re: Coordinated turns to base and final (dave)
10. 08:12 AM - Re: Coordinated turns to base and final (Mark Thompson)
11. 08:22 AM - Re: Re: GPS (Lynn Matteson)
12. 08:30 AM - Low fuel indicator (nealscherm@comcast.net)
13. 08:38 AM - Re: Re: GPS (dave)
14. 08:54 AM - Re: Coordinated turns to base and final (kitfoxmike)
15. 09:29 AM - Re: Coordinated turns to base and final (Guy Buchanan)
16. 10:23 AM - Re: Coordinated turns to base and final (kitfoxmike)
17. 12:03 PM - Re: Re: Coordinated turns to base and final (Michel Verheughe)
18. 12:08 PM - Re: Coordinated turns to base and final (Lynn Matteson)
19. 12:17 PM - Re: Re: Coordinated turns to base and final (Clem Nichols)
20. 01:45 PM - Re: Coordinated turns to base and final (kitfoxmike)
21. 03:04 PM - Maule Tailwheel (Rex Shaw)
22. 03:18 PM - Re: Maule Tailwheel (Sjklerks@aol.com)
23. 03:53 PM - Re: Maule Tailwheel (D. Fisher)
24. 03:55 PM - Coordinated flight was: turn base to final (Larry Martin)
25. 04:01 PM - Re: Re: Coordinated turns to base and final (D. Fisher)
26. 04:56 PM - Re: Coordinated turns to base and final (kitfoxmike)
27. 05:53 PM - Re: Re: Coordinated turns to base and final (Noel Loveys)
28. 06:01 PM - Re: GPS. WAS: ASIs (Noel Loveys)
29. 06:34 PM - Re: (Noel Loveys)
30. 06:57 PM - construction manual (parahawk)
31. 07:48 PM - Re: Maule Tailwheel (Rexster)
32. 07:53 PM - Re: GPS. WAS: ASIs (Jim Corner)
33. 11:06 PM - Re: GPS. WAS: ASIs (Guy Buchanan)
34. 11:38 PM - Re: Coordinated turns to base and final (wingnut)
Message 1
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> From: Noel Loveys [noelloveys@yahoo.ca]
> The further you deviate from the equator the worse it gets.
Wow, how does it work, Noel? Because I've never heard that before. The way I understand
it is that:
1) Because of the angles made by the satellites (imagine them in perspective over
the earth) the altitude has less accuracy than the latitude and longitude.
2) The earth surface reference a.k.a. mean sea level, is very uneven over the globe.
Much like Lynn's magnetic abnormalies, the earth is uneven in density and
shape. The GPS system calculates first a position to a "perfect" place, then
adjust it for the local "geoidal height."
But that worldwide table has a resolution of maybe ten square miles and that may
not be good enough for some place. It's just a question place on the instrument's
memory.
And I don't think it has something to do with your present latitude.
Regarding Loran C, its accuracy is far from being that of the GPS. It is based,
like the British Decca system, on time difference between a master and slave
stations. I am not sure how it could measure altitude, though. And Locan C coverage
is only limited to North America and some places of interest for NATO like
north Norway.
Incidentally, 25 years ago, the company I worked for was selling a lot of Loran
C simulators to maritime colleges.
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Coordinated turns to base and final |
Lowell:
I have a trim tab on the rudder, and yes, I am pretty well trimmed in
flight, so I don't think that's the answer. Thanks anyway.
Clem Nichols
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 10:12 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Coordinated turns to base and final
>
> Clem,
>
> Your description sounds like me. That is until finally after 7 years of
> flying, I put a trim tab on the rudder. Coordinated turns at pattern
> speeds was a challenge. Now they are seat of the pants simple. The
> "group" often flew rivers sometimes deep in canyons at about approach
> speeds and I always had one eye on the ball - I didn't want to become a
> sad stastistic.
>
> Question. Are you trimmed in yaw in flight? If not a rudder trim tab
> might help.
>
> Lowell
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Clem Nichols" <cnichols@scrtc.com>
> To: "kitfox list" <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 5:18 PM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Coordinated turns to base and final
>
>
> Every landing I've made in my Model IV has been from a left-hand traffic
> pattern, so I can't say what my turn indicator would show in a right-hand
> pattern. When I turn from downwind to base and again from base to final
> the ball swings out to the right even with the left wing down into the
> turn and no pressure (except initially) on the rudder pedal. Centering
> the ball would obviously require right rudder which would mean the plane
> was being cross-controlled, not to mention heading in the wrong direction,
> or else lowering the left wing even more which I would be a bit
> uncomfortable with at this speed and elevation. Furthermore, to
> successfully complete these two 90 degree turns to the left, it's
> necessary to go ahead and put in left rudder which only causes the ball to
> move farther to the right and away from center. This has been
> consistently the case in every landing I've made in the Fox, at least a
> couple of hundred. I've not noticed this problem before in flying a
> Cessna or a little Rans S14 which I keep at home. What am I doing wrong
> here? Thanks for your input.
>
> Clem Nichols
> Do Not Archive
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Coordinated turns to base and final |
Guy:
I think you've hit the nail on the head. This is the way I had thought
about it, but had never played around with it the way you suggested. I
guess it's just counter-intuitive to pull back on the stick when descending,
but that should help stop the skid. I have an NSI EA81 with 2.34:1 gear
drive. I usually cut back to 2200 rpm at 1000 ft above the numbers, add in
about 2 inches of flaperons, and then trim to descend at about 65 mph and
500 fpm. I suspect that doing as you suggest is going to change this a bit,
but it will be interesting to find out. Thanks for your response.
Clem Nichols
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Guy Buchanan" <bnn@nethere.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 11:30 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Coordinated turns to base and final
>
> At 05:18 PM 2/11/2007, you wrote:
>>or else lowering the left wing even more which I would be a bit
>>uncomfortable with at this speed and elevation.
>
> You've got it right.
>
> You're seeing a problem because your turns are descending. What causes an
> aircraft to turn? It's the wings and the angle of their lift vector.
> Therefore in order to turn you tilt the wings and pull back on the
> elevator to increase lift. Now, if you tilt the wings left, then don't
> pull back on the elevator, as you might do in a descent, the plane slides
> sideways, "down hill" as it were, causing the ball to swing right. Try it.
> Go up and do some steep turns or turns around a point. Midway through the
> turn relax back pressure so the plane straightens out. You'll fall
> sideways "into" the turn.
>
> The solutions: 1) shallow your descent during the turn by increasing back
> pressure; and/or 2) roll into the turn until you are coordinated. In
> either case you can try shallowing your turn entry so your subsequent
> moves don't have to be so aggressive. That might help keep you
> "comfortable". Remember, you can run a higher bank angle in a descending
> turn without danger of an accelerated stall.
>
> The other training I would recommend is doing a bunch of slow speed steep
> turns at altitude so you become familiar with your aircraft's accelerated
> stall behavior. Start at about 60 MIAS and do 45 degree steep turns both
> ways. Decrease speed 5 or 10 MIAS and do it again. Keep reducing until
> you can just maintain bank angle and altitude while in stall buffet. Stay
> coordinated throughout. Finally, increase your speed 5 MIAS again and do
> circles. As you circle pull hard and feel the plane drop out as you stall.
> Release pressure immediately and it will hook up again. It's kind of fun.
>
> PS. Be prepared to spin. (If you stay coordinated you should be fine at 45
> degrees.)
>
>
> Guy Buchanan
> K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
>
>
>
Message 4
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Directly to your question, can you run an exterior link? Running a mechanical
link out in the airstream on these slow little planes is often the easiest and
lightest way to go.
Be extremely careful of potential problems with gap seals and anything else that
may hinder elevator movement, especially remembering that the horizontal and
elevator can flex under load. Cirrus lost an airplane and test pilot a few years
ago when the tight fit of the aileron rubbed the trailing edge of the wing.
Ice on a tight fitting hinge or gap seal can do the same, and the further you
are from the center of the hinge, the more mechanical advantage you give to
a blockage.
Bob
--------
Remember that internet advice may only be worth what you pay.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=94441#94441
Message 5
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Noel,
I don't remember which GPS you have, but could you be getting out of WAAS
range if you go north far enough?
Bradley
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Noel Loveys
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 7:25 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: GPS. WAS: ASIs
The further you deviate from the equator the worse it gets. I'm at around
48 N give or take and it's not too bad. There was one day as I mentioned in
an earlier post where my location (static) was jumping around several miles.
On the map source topo maps I have for Canada one end of the pond I use to
launch from is programmed in as 20' ( it's closer to 8') the middle of the
pond is listed as close to 30' and the far end is 24'. Imagine here in
Newfoundland water doesn't meet it's own level!
With more than six satellites I will trust the speed indication if it read 0
static before starting.
Still like maps and usually I'll spend the time dead reckoning before the
flight just to stay familiar with it. Then again I still carry and use,
every chance I get, a slide rule. Amazes some people what can be done
without batteries.
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Michel Verheughe
> Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 2:40 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: GPS. WAS: ASIs
>
>
>
> On Feb 9, 2007, at 4:22 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:
> > How much do you guys trust the altitude feature of your GPS?
>
> Unless it is differential GPS, about 300 feet, Noel. And it's not
> likely to change. Something to do with the geoidal height table,
> somewhat coarse in your "worldwide" instrument and the fact that the
> angles made by the satellites over the horizon give poor
> triangulation
> in the Y-axis (altitude).
>
> Cheers,
> Michel
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Checked by PC Tools AntiVirus (3.1.0.10 - 9.058.016).
> http://www.pctools.com/anti-virus/
Message 6
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Interesting site, Mike. I put in my tail number but they couldn't
find it...guess I snuck one in there. : )
Actually, I only had to squawk/ident once during a recent flight, and
that was on 1200, so I guess that doesn't count.
My 296 unit is supposed to be capable of downloading data
recorded...at least that's what I understood at the time of purchase
(2005), but I either wasn't supplied with the USB cable when I bought
it, or I've misplaced it...and it would be for a PC anyway, and I'm
on a Mac. I think the USB part of the equation would fit Mac or PC,
but the Mac software isn't capable of the download...if I'm
understanding things correctly.
Lynn
On Feb 11, 2007, at 10:10 PM, Michael Gibbs wrote:
> <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
>
> Lynn sez:
>
>> I think I read somewhere that you can download the tracks, or for
>> that matter any info on the GPS, into your PC and print it out.
>
> That depends on the GPS unit. Some do, some don't.
>
> If you are in the United States and ATC has issued you a squawk
> code (i.e., you are squawking something other than 1200), your
> ground track will show up on FlightAware <http://
> www.flightaware.com>. Just punch in your tail number and it plots
> your most recent trip. I don't know how long it keeps the data,
> but I just looked up a flight that dates back to the end of May,
> 2006 (roughly 8 months ago).
>
> Mike G.
> N728KF
>
>
Message 7
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Lynn,
My GPS plug to pc is a Data plug not a USB plug.
There are many programs you can use to fetch the data.
I will fetch some later for you and post a pic.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 9:48 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: GPS
>
> Interesting site, Mike. I put in my tail number but they couldn't
> find it...guess I snuck one in there. : )
> Actually, I only had to squawk/ident once during a recent flight, and
> that was on 1200, so I guess that doesn't count.
> My 296 unit is supposed to be capable of downloading data
> recorded...at least that's what I understood at the time of purchase
> (2005), but I either wasn't supplied with the USB cable when I bought
> it, or I've misplaced it...and it would be for a PC anyway, and I'm
> on a Mac. I think the USB part of the equation would fit Mac or PC,
> but the Mac software isn't capable of the download...if I'm
> understanding things correctly.
>
> Lynn
>
>
> On Feb 11, 2007, at 10:10 PM, Michael Gibbs wrote:
>
>> <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
>>
>> Lynn sez:
>>
>>> I think I read somewhere that you can download the tracks, or for
>>> that matter any info on the GPS, into your PC and print it out.
>>
>> That depends on the GPS unit. Some do, some don't.
>>
>> If you are in the United States and ATC has issued you a squawk
>> code (i.e., you are squawking something other than 1200), your
>> ground track will show up on FlightAware <http://
>> www.flightaware.com>. Just punch in your tail number and it plots
>> your most recent trip. I don't know how long it keeps the data,
>> but I just looked up a flight that dates back to the end of May,
>> 2006 (roughly 8 months ago).
>>
>> Mike G.
>> N728KF
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Coordinated turns to base and final |
Yup, that's a fox
that's why I like flying mine so much. I do, according to a bunch of cessna pilos,
some radical pattern work. I generally hit about 80mph on my base and my
final is usually over the numbers at or about 20ft off the ground, and yes the
ball is a factor, on those step decents the ball goes off center, generally
I end up taking my feet off the rudder (or actually putting on opposite rudder
that what I think I need) during the turn and then a little rudder (in the direction
of the turn) when in the base to final turn, which can be as much as
60 degrees. Yes it is different on a right turn versus a left turn in, when doing
a straight and normal flight decend and don't touch the rudder peddles, you
will see the ball go to the left, this is normal, called prop torque, same
goes when climbing, the ball goes to the right. My suggestion, if your going
to do step decending base to final, or short pattern work, make darn sure you
keep one eye on both the ball and the airspeed indicator, because in the fox,
you are going to need to keep the ball as close to center as possible. After
awhile it will be second nature.
As far as the amount of touches I do, well, I generally do about 20 in a 45 minute
time period. So far this year I've done 298 landings.
--------
kitfoxmike
model IV, 1200
speedster
912ul
Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=94463#94463
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Coordinated turns to base and final |
I would like to caution that pilots that have not have thorough spin and
spiral training do not make 45 deg bank turns until you feel the buffet
even at altitude like Guy mentions.
ESPECIALLY ON TURN BASE TO FINAL.......... You could auger in before you
know it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Recipe for disaster.
Guy - have you trained in spins, inverted flight and spirals and are
proficient ?
In the interest of safe flying ,
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Guy Buchanan" <bnn@nethere.com>
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 12:30 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Coordinated turns to base and final
>
> At 05:18 PM 2/11/2007, you wrote:
>>or else lowering the left wing even more which I would be a bit
>>uncomfortable with at this speed and elevation.
>
> You've got it right.
>
> You're seeing a problem because your turns are descending. What causes an
> aircraft to turn? It's the wings and the angle of their lift vector.
> Therefore in order to turn you tilt the wings and pull back on the
> elevator to increase lift. Now, if you tilt the wings left, then don't
> pull back on the elevator, as you might do in a descent, the plane slides
> sideways, "down hill" as it were, causing the ball to swing right. Try it.
> Go up and do some steep turns or turns around a point. Midway through the
> turn relax back pressure so the plane straightens out. You'll fall
> sideways "into" the turn.
>
> The solutions: 1) shallow your descent during the turn by increasing back
> pressure; and/or 2) roll into the turn until you are coordinated. In
> either case you can try shallowing your turn entry so your subsequent
> moves don't have to be so aggressive. That might help keep you
> "comfortable". Remember, you can run a higher bank angle in a descending
> turn without danger of an accelerated stall.
>
> The other training I would recommend is doing a bunch of slow speed steep
> turns at altitude so you become familiar with your aircraft's accelerated
> stall behavior. Start at about 60 MIAS and do 45 degree steep turns both
> ways. Decrease speed 5 or 10 MIAS and do it again. Keep reducing until
> you can just maintain bank angle and altitude while in stall buffet. Stay
> coordinated throughout. Finally, increase your speed 5 MIAS again and do
> circles. As you circle pull hard and feel the plane drop out as you stall.
> Release pressure immediately and it will hook up again. It's kind of fun.
>
> PS. Be prepared to spin. (If you stay coordinated you should be fine at 45
> degrees.)
>
>
> Guy Buchanan
> K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Coordinated turns to base and final |
I agree Dave,when I am making any steep turn I try my best to maintain a
good airspeed throughout the turn,without loosing any speed and if I drop
on my speed I release a little back pressure on the stick to regain my
speed,even though I might losse a little alt,but I feel more comfortable
this way because I do not have any spin training,and this helps me also
maintain a coordinated turn..
Thanks for your input Dave
Mark N61AC
> [Original Message]
> From: dave <dave@cfisher.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 2/12/2007 10:29:27 AM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Coordinated turns to base and final
>
>
> I would like to caution that pilots that have not have thorough spin and
> spiral training do not make 45 deg bank turns until you feel the buffet
> even at altitude like Guy mentions.
>
> ESPECIALLY ON TURN BASE TO FINAL.......... You could auger in before you
> know it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> Recipe for disaster.
>
>
> Guy - have you trained in spins, inverted flight and spirals and are
> proficient ?
>
> In the interest of safe flying ,
>
> Dave
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Guy Buchanan" <bnn@nethere.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 12:30 AM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Coordinated turns to base and final
>
>
> >
> > At 05:18 PM 2/11/2007, you wrote:
> >>or else lowering the left wing even more which I would be a bit
> >>uncomfortable with at this speed and elevation.
> >
> > You've got it right.
> >
> > You're seeing a problem because your turns are descending. What causes
an
> > aircraft to turn? It's the wings and the angle of their lift vector.
> > Therefore in order to turn you tilt the wings and pull back on the
> > elevator to increase lift. Now, if you tilt the wings left, then don't
> > pull back on the elevator, as you might do in a descent, the plane
slides
> > sideways, "down hill" as it were, causing the ball to swing right. Try
it.
> > Go up and do some steep turns or turns around a point. Midway through
the
> > turn relax back pressure so the plane straightens out. You'll fall
> > sideways "into" the turn.
> >
> > The solutions: 1) shallow your descent during the turn by increasing
back
> > pressure; and/or 2) roll into the turn until you are coordinated. In
> > either case you can try shallowing your turn entry so your subsequent
> > moves don't have to be so aggressive. That might help keep you
> > "comfortable". Remember, you can run a higher bank angle in a
descending
> > turn without danger of an accelerated stall.
> >
> > The other training I would recommend is doing a bunch of slow speed
steep
> > turns at altitude so you become familiar with your aircraft's
accelerated
> > stall behavior. Start at about 60 MIAS and do 45 degree steep turns
both
> > ways. Decrease speed 5 or 10 MIAS and do it again. Keep reducing until
> > you can just maintain bank angle and altitude while in stall buffet.
Stay
> > coordinated throughout. Finally, increase your speed 5 MIAS again and
do
> > circles. As you circle pull hard and feel the plane drop out as you
stall.
> > Release pressure immediately and it will hook up again. It's kind of
fun.
> >
> > PS. Be prepared to spin. (If you stay coordinated you should be fine at
45
> > degrees.)
> >
> >
> > Guy Buchanan
> > K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 11
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Hi Dave-
My data out plug is a 5-pin connector which accepts the (missing)
cable. The other end would be the USB end. There is also a data card
slot.
I just called Garmin to find out about the "expected" Macintosh
interface that was supposed to be forthcoming. They said it was being
implemented on new products, like personal training devices
(treadmills, bicycles, etc), but not on existing devices like my 296.
So no point in ordering a cable in hopes of using it with my Mac, but
maybe order one (I misplaced the one that came with my unit) to use
with a friend's IBM/PC. Depends on how often I'd like to save a trip/
track, etc.
Lynn
do not archive
On Feb 12, 2007, at 10:09 AM, dave wrote:
>
> Lynn,
> My GPS plug to pc is a Data plug not a USB plug.
> There are many programs you can use to fetch the data.
>
> I will fetch some later for you and post a pic.
> Dave
Message 12
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| Subject: | Low fuel indicator |
Hey List,
Does anyone have an old style low fuel indicator for a series 7? I would like the
one that screws into the header tank. John, do you have one?
Thanks,
Neal
DO NOT ARCHIVE
<html><body>
<DIV>Hey List,</DIV>
<DIV>Does anyone have an old style low fuel indicator for a series 7? I would like
the one that screws into the header tank. John, do you have one?</DIV>
<DIV>Thanks,</DIV>
<DIV>Neal</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>DO NOT ARCHIVE</DIV>
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Message 13
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Lynn,
Yes the 296 uses 5 pin out but to a 9 pin data plag for PC .
My 196 uses 4 pin out to the same 9 pin data plug.
I also got ozi eplorer with some maps in it -- I cna overlay my tracks and
routes over top of it.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 11:24 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: GPS
>
> Hi Dave-
> My data out plug is a 5-pin connector which accepts the (missing) cable.
> The other end would be the USB end. There is also a data card slot.
> I just called Garmin to find out about the "expected" Macintosh interface
> that was supposed to be forthcoming. They said it was being implemented
> on new products, like personal training devices (treadmills, bicycles,
> etc), but not on existing devices like my 296. So no point in ordering a
> cable in hopes of using it with my Mac, but maybe order one (I misplaced
> the one that came with my unit) to use with a friend's IBM/PC. Depends on
> how often I'd like to save a trip/ track, etc.
>
> Lynn
> do not archive
> On Feb 12, 2007, at 10:09 AM, dave wrote:
>
>>
>> Lynn,
>> My GPS plug to pc is a Data plug not a USB plug.
>> There are many programs you can use to fetch the data.
>>
>> I will fetch some later for you and post a pic.
>> Dave
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Coordinated turns to base and final |
One good thing to remember, speed is good, coordinated flight is good. When performing
a steep turn always keep the speed above 60. When I do a base to final
turn I maintain 60 or better. If I'm at 70 I let the engine go to idle, if
I'm at 60 I put in a little throttle, I guess it's like taking a school bus into
a turn, put in power on the turn and the kids won't end up on the floor. Same
here, a little power on the turn and you won't end up scattered all over the
runway. Main thing is, keep coordinated and the speed up and you can do a
90degree turn in a fox, although I wouldn't want to do one at 20 ft.
--------
kitfoxmike
model IV, 1200
speedster
912ul
Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=94494#94494
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| Subject: | Re: Coordinated turns to base and final |
At 07:22 AM 2/12/2007, you wrote:
>Guy - have you trained in spins, inverted flight and spirals and
>are proficient ?
Yes. And I encourage everyone to obtain basic aerobatic training. It
may be the best training, (second only to a glider rating,) to
improve your skills and confidence, and it's fun.
A small digression: When I learned to fly I was taught that a
coordinated turn involved using the rudder. And I was told separately
to be careful to maintain altitude during a turn. What I was NOT told
was that a coordinated turn involved using the elevator, with the
rudder a distant second. (I was flying a 152.) I used to do turns
around a point with my instructor and we would sit there sliding
sideways in our seats, back and forth, back and forth, as I pulled
and pushed trying to maintain altitude. Or I would sit there in a
"perfectly coordinated" steep turn with outside aileron and top
rudder, but laying against my door so hard I was terrified it would
open and I would fall out! My instructor would keep telling me,
"You're over-banked, you're over-banked!" "What the hell's that?" I
thought. I finally realized after a lot of solo work that the
critical coordination in a turn is between the ailerons and elevator.
I then spent hours aloft doing steep and shallow turns to get the
feel of when and how to use elevator in a turn. And when I did
aerobatic training, every clearing turn finished with a 90 degree
bank, (so we could see straight down,) which was a partial split-S
done with little or no elevator, but perfectly coordinated throughout.
It's interesting how the books warn, "DON'T CROSS CONTROL IN THE
PATTERN!" But they don't say why you would be cross controlled in the
pattern in the first place. Clem has given the perfect example; it's
often caused by descending turns, and how they feel different than level turns.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Coordinated turns to base and final |
I agree, glider training was the best. Good for both no engine and adverse yaw.
--------
kitfoxmike
model IV, 1200
speedster
912ul
Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=94518#94518
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| Subject: | Re: Coordinated turns to base and final |
On Feb 12, 2007, at 5:54 PM, kitfoxmike wrote:
> Main thing is, keep coordinated and the speed up and you can do a
> 90degree turn in a fox, although I wouldn't want to do one at 20 ft.
Guys, I think we all agree on that. I knew that my plane was built by
two different guys (I am the 4th owner) that I never met. A few days
ago, I learnt that one of them died in his first Kitfox only a few
weeks after mine did its first flight in 1994.
From the story I got, he did a downwind low-pass over the runway, then
turned in a sharp turn with the intend to land. This manoeuvre is
sometimes used by glider pilot when they are too low on the weather
side of the runway.
In the Kitfox case, the plane spun low over the ground and killed both
the pilot and the passenger. It is the only fatal Kitfox accident in
Norway. A sad story. :-(
Michel
do not archive.
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| Subject: | Re: Coordinated turns to base and final |
Isn't a slip a cross-control? And if I'm doing it on final, because I
came in too high, am I not in the pattern?
Lynn
On Feb 12, 2007, at 11:44 AM, Guy Buchanan wrote:
> It's interesting how the books warn, "DON'T CROSS CONTROL IN THE
> PATTERN!" But they don't say why you would be cross controlled in
> the pattern in the first place. Clem has given the perfect example;
> it's often caused by descending turns, and how they feel different
> than level turns.
>
> Guy Buchanan
> K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Coordinated turns to base and final |
Based on the info in my previous posting and the idea of back elevator in
the descending turn as well as keeping air speed up I can only conclude that
it will be necessary to add more power on turning to base and also on
turning to final which will mean a lower rate of descent and that in turn
will mean extending my downwind a bit. Does that make sense? Does anyone
have any idea why I have not noticed this problem in previous planes I've
flown? Could it be the flaperons? I usually add a couple of inches of
flaps when I reduce the power opposite the numbers and at 1000 ft. agl. I
certainly notice a very pronounced tendency of the plane to nose down as
soon as the flaperons are put in, and have to adjust the elevator trim all
the way up (on the indicator) to avoid excessive stick pressure. I don't
notice this nose-lowering tendency when flaps are added in planes with
separate flaps and ailerons.
Clem Nichols
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "kitfoxmike" <customtrans@qwest.net>
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 10:54 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Coordinated turns to base and final
>
> One good thing to remember, speed is good, coordinated flight is good.
> When performing a steep turn always keep the speed above 60. When I do a
> base to final turn I maintain 60 or better. If I'm at 70 I let the engine
> go to idle, if I'm at 60 I put in a little throttle, I guess it's like
> taking a school bus into a turn, put in power on the turn and the kids
> won't end up on the floor. Same here, a little power on the turn and you
> won't end up scattered all over the runway. Main thing is, keep
> coordinated and the speed up and you can do a 90degree turn in a fox,
> although I wouldn't want to do one at 20 ft.
>
> --------
> kitfoxmike
> model IV, 1200
> speedster
> 912ul
> Do not archive
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=94494#94494
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Coordinated turns to base and final |
Clem,
Sounds like you are very new to the kitfox. I had those same concerns when I first
started flying mine. I was fortunate to have an instructor give me about
35 hrs in mine before venturing out on my own.
I went on my flight for the day today and paid close attention to the yaw characteristics
that you are discribing. First off when making a steep decent the
fox will yaw to the right, thus needing left rudder(ball goes left) this is perfectly
normal, in fact you will get this in any airplane, try it in a cessna,
I have. Now throw in a 30degree turn to the right and the ball will go left,
what you say, this is normal also, you will need to add left rudder to keep coordinated.
When I first started flying my plane the instructor kept saying your
uncoordinated when I made right turns to base. Now make the right turn close
to 45degrees and you might just need to take your feet off the rudder and
have the ball centered. Go beyond 45 and you might need a small amount of right
rudder to keep it centered. Level out in the base and guess what, depending
on the decent and the power level you might again need left rudder because the
ball is now going into the left side. It's all fun, learning your plane and
flying to the plane. Jump into another and it will have it's quarks.
Onto flaps, I don't use any, but it's normal to have nose up when putting on flaps,
that's how the foxes trim when there is no elevator trim.
--------
kitfoxmike
model IV, 1200
speedster
912ul
Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=94554#94554
Message 21
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I have a maule tailwheel with the hard 6 inch tire, I really like the
maule
except for the rough ride that it gives? Can anybody tell me what the
differance is between the 8" sfs-p8a tailwheel and the p8b tundra
tailwheel other
then the price? Do they weigh the same? Thanks
Jim
Model IV
Jim,
i had the Maule SFSA tail wheel and yes it was very noisy and
skittered all over the place. I changed just the wheel not the whole
assembly for an Aircraft Spruce 6" Homebuilders soft rubber wheel. It is
now dramatically quieter and gives much more control. Probably something
that is hard to believe if you don't experience it. The new tailwheel is
only about $30 so I suggest you try it. It's basically the same weight.
You now have a 1/2" axle and the new wheel has bearings for 5/8" so you
can either sleeve the axle with a piece of 1/16" wall tubing or change
the bearings. Other than that it goes straight on. However the bearings
that come with the ACS wheel are junk so I went to a bearing supply shop
and got new bearings for the 1/2" axle. You need them with retaining
rings so they don't slide into the wheel centre. You also need sealed
bearings. A few of us have done this and all are satisfied so why not
give it a go ?
Rex.
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| Subject: | Re: Maule Tailwheel |
Hi Rex, I was thinking of going with a Pneumatic tire. Trying to achieve
abit of a better ride?
Jim
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| Subject: | Re: Maule Tailwheel |
Hey Jim,
I put my Skis back on last week as the King fox tires wear starting to
drag in 8 inches of snow.
I never put the tailski on till Saturday as I was getting sick of the
rumbling from my solid tailwheel.
Tail ski is perfect now :)
I got in a hour today, hour Sunday and an hour on Saturday .
We supposed to get 6 to 12 inches snow over the next day or two and will
likely cover your area as well.
How is your cabin heat working in the 0 F days ? Mine is tasty .
Do you have Ski s ? Ther is a Ski Flyin re-scheduled to next weekend
if you are interested about 120 miles North.
I also just ordered more 4130 today and if time permits I might make a
set of Wheel Skis to Fit the King Fox tires. I mostly fly off pavement
but Would be as an interesting experiment. If I was to sell them they
would be $ 750 at least but I would cut for you as you got me a heck of
a deal on those King fox tires.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: Sjklerks@aol.com
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 6:17 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Maule Tailwheel
Hi Rex, I was thinking of going with a Pneumatic tire. Trying to
achieve abit of a better ride?
Jim
Message 24
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| Subject: | Coordinated flight was: turn base to final |
If the ball is not in the center, then you do not have coordinated
flight. Don't worry about what rudder or aileron your pushing. If the
ball is centered - you are coordinated and can not spin unless you allow
the ball out of the center. The reason for the obvious difference with
a gliding turn is because of the torque or lack of it with reduced power
in the descent and of course; the adverse yaw. The Fox like most
airplanes have some considerations built in to counter some of the
average effects of torque. This might be in the form of an offset
engine mount or vertical stab. If you try a gliding turn with power,
you will notice that you don't need as much rudder. Establish a power
on gliding turn. Then reduce the power to idle and see how much more
rudder you have to use to stay coordinated. (ball in the center) Then
add power again and see that you will need to reduce the rudder
requirement. A trim tab is only useful to relieve the rudder pressure
you leg has to endure a single power setting/speed. (assuming its a
fixed tab) It might be handing at cruise speed for long cross country
flight, but would not do anything in the pattern. I would encourage you
to just get very comfortable using you feet to keep the ball in the
center. (coordinated) Have fun and try different combinations of power
and airspeed, and change them as you maintain the turn. You will notice
the difference even in straight flight, but it will not be as apparent
because of the lack of adverse yaw.
larry
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| Subject: | Re: Coordinated turns to base and final |
Mike ,
When I put on flaps my nose pitches down . You will have to pull harder on
the stick while using flaps on approach. I don't have trim .
Mind you I notice that you have a speedwing but it should be the same .
Dave
<<Onto flaps, I don't use any, but it's normal to have nose up when putting
on flaps, that's how the foxes trim when there is no elevator trim.>>
----- Original Message -----
From: "kitfoxmike" <customtrans@qwest.net>
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 4:44 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Coordinated turns to base and final
>
> Clem,
> Sounds like you are very new to the kitfox. I had those same concerns
> when I first started flying mine. I was fortunate to have an instructor
> give me about 35 hrs in mine before venturing out on my own.
>
> I went on my flight for the day today and paid close attention to the yaw
> characteristics that you are discribing. First off when making a steep
> decent the fox will yaw to the right, thus needing left rudder(ball goes
> left) this is perfectly normal, in fact you will get this in any airplane,
> try it in a cessna, I have. Now throw in a 30degree turn to the right and
> the ball will go left, what you say, this is normal also, you will need to
> add left rudder to keep coordinated. When I first started flying my plane
> the instructor kept saying your uncoordinated when I made right turns to
> base. Now make the right turn close to 45degrees and you might just need
> to take your feet off the rudder and have the ball centered. Go beyond 45
> and you might need a small amount of right rudder to keep it centered.
> Level out in the base and guess what, depending on the decent and the
> power level you might again need left rudder because the ball is now going
> into the left side. It's all f!
> un, learning your plane and flying to the plane. Jump into another and it
> will have it's quarks.
>
> Onto flaps, I don't use any, but it's normal to have nose up when putting
> on flaps, that's how the foxes trim when there is no elevator trim.
>
> --------
> kitfoxmike
> model IV, 1200
> speedster
> 912ul
> Do not archive
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=94554#94554
>
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Coordinated turns to base and final |
woops, I meant nose goes down when putting on flaps.
--------
kitfoxmike
model IV, 1200
speedster
912ul
Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=94590#94590
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Coordinated turns to base and final |
I must be flying like a wuss. 45 to 60 degree turns onto final! Wow! Not
for me. I find when turning on final things get busy enough that I'm lucky
to grab a peek at the ASI. Flying the plane is the most important thing for
me, not checking various and sundry instruments. If things don't look right
I always have the throttle!
Is there any one here who uses a slip to loose altitude to a point say
twenty feet or so above touch down? I've tried both flaps and the slip.
The flaps seem to work better but then again I have those floats acting like
a great pendulum and keeping the plane from slipping effectively. Of course
I also have a smallish rudder and no gap seals.
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Clem Nichols
> Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 4:48 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Coordinated turns to base and final
>
>
>
> Based on the info in my previous posting and the idea of back
> elevator in
> the descending turn as well as keeping air speed up I can
> only conclude that
> it will be necessary to add more power on turning to base and also on
> turning to final which will mean a lower rate of descent and
> that in turn
> will mean extending my downwind a bit. Does that make sense?
> Does anyone
> have any idea why I have not noticed this problem in previous
> planes I've
> flown? Could it be the flaperons? I usually add a couple of
> inches of
> flaps when I reduce the power opposite the numbers and at
> 1000 ft. agl. I
> certainly notice a very pronounced tendency of the plane to
> nose down as
> soon as the flaperons are put in, and have to adjust the
> elevator trim all
> the way up (on the indicator) to avoid excessive stick
> pressure. I don't
> notice this nose-lowering tendency when flaps are added in
> planes with
> separate flaps and ailerons.
>
> Clem Nichols
> Do Not Archive
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "kitfoxmike" <customtrans@qwest.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 10:54 AM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Coordinated turns to base and final
>
>
> <customtrans@qwest.net>
> >
> > One good thing to remember, speed is good, coordinated
> flight is good.
> > When performing a steep turn always keep the speed above
> 60. When I do a
> > base to final turn I maintain 60 or better. If I'm at 70 I
> let the engine
> > go to idle, if I'm at 60 I put in a little throttle, I
> guess it's like
> > taking a school bus into a turn, put in power on the turn
> and the kids
> > won't end up on the floor. Same here, a little power on the
> turn and you
> > won't end up scattered all over the runway. Main thing is, keep
> > coordinated and the speed up and you can do a 90degree turn
> in a fox,
> > although I wouldn't want to do one at 20 ft.
> >
> > --------
> > kitfoxmike
> > model IV, 1200
> > speedster
> > 912ul
> > Do not archive
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=94494#94494
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 28
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All satellites in the GPS constellation are in geostationary orbit. By
definition that means they must also be directly over the equator. The
further away form the equator you are the greater the angle of incidence of
any signal reaching your receiver. The greater the angle of incidence the
greater the possibility of error both vertical and horizontal.
I believe there are WAAS transmitters in northern Labrador (Voisey's Bay).
They were installed to facilitate heli-borne geo-magnetic surveys.
I had a friend who was the navigator of a ship doing exploration surveys all
over the world. He told me in the high arctic and in the Antarctic the GPS
was just another big expensive paperweight.
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Bradley M Webb
> Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 10:50 AM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: GPS. WAS: ASIs
>
>
>
> Noel,
> I don't remember which GPS you have, but could you be getting
> out of WAAS
> range if you go north far enough?
>
> Bradley
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Noel Loveys
> Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 7:25 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: GPS. WAS: ASIs
>
>
> The further you deviate from the equator the worse it gets.
> I'm at around
> 48 N give or take and it's not too bad. There was one day as
> I mentioned in
> an earlier post where my location (static) was jumping around
> several miles.
> On the map source topo maps I have for Canada one end of the
> pond I use to
> launch from is programmed in as 20' ( it's closer to 8') the
> middle of the
> pond is listed as close to 30' and the far end is 24'.
> Imagine here in
> Newfoundland water doesn't meet it's own level!
>
> With more than six satellites I will trust the speed
> indication if it read 0
> static before starting.
>
> Still like maps and usually I'll spend the time dead
> reckoning before the
> flight just to stay familiar with it. Then again I still
> carry and use,
> every chance I get, a slide rule. Amazes some people what can be done
> without batteries.
>
> Noel
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> > Michel Verheughe
> > Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 2:40 PM
> > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Kitfox-List: GPS. WAS: ASIs
> >
> >
> <michel@online.no>
> >
> > On Feb 9, 2007, at 4:22 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:
> > > How much do you guys trust the altitude feature of your GPS?
> >
> > Unless it is differential GPS, about 300 feet, Noel. And it's not
> > likely to change. Something to do with the geoidal height table,
> > somewhat coarse in your "worldwide" instrument and the fact
> that the
> > angles made by the satellites over the horizon give poor
> > triangulation
> > in the Y-axis (altitude).
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Michel
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Checked by PC Tools AntiVirus (3.1.0.10 - 9.058.016).
> > http://www.pctools.com/anti-virus/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 29
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|
I live close enough to a Loran C station that I used to get a consistent
clicking in the phone here. I still hear the Loran C signal on AM radio
when passing under the power lines at the end of my driveway. Han
operations on 160 meters is a definite no no after dark.
Three years ago the Electronics technician ( one of them at least) at the
station was a close friend. I got several, let's just say more than the
class A tours of the facility. The technology at the transmitting stations
is fantastic. They have scopes there which show the location of the other
stations in the chain and you can actually graphically see whether your
signal is in the right place in time or not. You can also see the position
of all the other stations in the chain. About two hundred miles form here
there is a station that is part of two chains, the Mid-Atlantic and the
North Atlantic chains their station must be completely mind blowing! For t
tecchie any way. The North Atlantic Chain is very accurate far beyond the
capabilities of the old English Decca system. How they were going to
incorporate altitude capabilities into the loran C signal I have no idea. I
was told it was an add on to the present chains and it would require updated
receivers.
The local station has two or three atomic clocks on sight. They operate
completely independently of the other clocks in the chain. If I remember
correctly, and it's been three years, the acceptable range of clock accuracy
is something like 40 picoseconds. The local station tried to maintain three
picoseconds accuracy. If the other stations in the chain were doing the
same thing it will translate to an accuracy something like of ten feet any
where in the North Atlantic area. I can't even say if receivers have that
kind of resolution. I never thought to ask if they could track continental
drift.
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Michel Verheughe
> Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 10:16 AM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List:
>
>
> > From: Noel Loveys [noelloveys@yahoo.ca]
> > The further you deviate from the equator the worse it gets.
>
> Wow, how does it work, Noel? Because I've never heard that
> before. The way I understand it is that:
> 1) Because of the angles made by the satellites (imagine them
> in perspective over the earth) the altitude has less accuracy
> than the latitude and longitude.
> 2) The earth surface reference a.k.a. mean sea level, is very
> uneven over the globe. Much like Lynn's magnetic abnormalies,
> the earth is uneven in density and shape. The GPS system
> calculates first a position to a "perfect" place, then adjust
> it for the local "geoidal height."
> But that worldwide table has a resolution of maybe ten square
> miles and that may not be good enough for some place. It's
> just a question place on the instrument's memory.
>
> And I don't think it has something to do with your present latitude.
>
> Regarding Loran C, its accuracy is far from being that of the
> GPS. It is based, like the British Decca system, on time
> difference between a master and slave stations. I am not sure
> how it could measure altitude, though. And Locan C coverage
> is only limited to North America and some places of interest
> for NATO like north Norway.
>
> Incidentally, 25 years ago, the company I worked for was
> selling a lot of Loran C simulators to maritime colleges.
>
> Cheers,
> Michel
> do not archive
>
>
> <pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://w
> ww.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List</a>
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com</a>
>
> </b></font></pre>
Message 30
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| Subject: | construction manual |
Can I get a downloadable version for the KF IV-1200 anywhere ??
Mine came without the weight and balance sheet and I understand that the manual
has a sample and instructions.
Thanks
do not archive
--------
Flying is the highest form of life on earth.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=94620#94620
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Maule Tailwheel |
Hi Jim,
I'd like to experience the difference. I never really thought of it sinc
e i spend most of my Fox time in the air. Let me know what you think.
Rex
-- Sjklerks@aol.com wrote:
Hi Rex, I was thinking of going with a Pneumatic tire. Trying to achieve
abit of a better ride?
========================
========================
========================
========================
========================
===============
<html><P>Hi Jim, </P>
<P>I'd like to experience the difference. I never really thought of it s
ince i spend most of my Fox time in the air. Let me know what you think.
</P>
<P>Rex<BR><BR>-- Sjklerks@aol.com wrote:<BR></P><FONT id=rol
e_document face=Arial color=#000000 size=2>
<DIV>Hi Rex, I was thinking of going with a Pneumatic tire. Trying to ac
hieve abit of a better ride?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> &
nbsp; &
nbsp; &
nbsp; &
nbsp; &
nbsp; &
nbsp; &
nbsp; Jim</DIV></FONT><P
RE><B><FONT face="courier new,courier" color=#000000 size=2>
========================
===========
">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List</A>
========================
===========
tronics.com</A>
========================
===========
</B></FONT></PRE>
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: GPS. WAS: ASIs |
Noel
Your statement in your last post are quite incorrect and I could not
let them pass without comment.
First as I understand it there are 6 orbits of 4 satellites each
inclined at approximately 55 degrees to the equator.
This gives world-wide coverage, including the north and south poles,
with a minimum of 4 satellites in view at all times.
WAAS stations are currently all located in continental US or Alaska
and provide coverage in those areas.
The farther north areas of Canada do not benefit from this
augmentation service nor does Europe.
You may be referring to differential GPS locations in Labrador.
Your final comments I believe apply to Loran coverage at the poles.
Cheers
Jim
On 12-Feb-07, at 7:01 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:
>
> All satellites in the GPS constellation are in geostationary
> orbit. By
> definition that means they must also be directly over the equator.
> The
> further away form the equator you are the greater the angle of
> incidence of
> any signal reaching your receiver. The greater the angle of
> incidence the
> greater the possibility of error both vertical and horizontal.
>
> I believe there are WAAS transmitters in northern Labrador
> (Voisey's Bay).
> They were installed to facilitate heli-borne geo-magnetic surveys.
>
> I had a friend who was the navigator of a ship doing exploration
> surveys all
> over the world. He told me in the high arctic and in the Antarctic
> the GPS
> was just another big expensive paperweight.
>
> Noel
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>> Bradley M Webb
>> Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 10:50 AM
>> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: GPS. WAS: ASIs
>>
>>
>>
>> Noel,
>> I don't remember which GPS you have, but could you be getting
>> out of WAAS
>> range if you go north far enough?
>>
>> Bradley
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>> Noel Loveys
>> Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 7:25 PM
>> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: GPS. WAS: ASIs
>>
>> <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
>>
>> The further you deviate from the equator the worse it gets.
>> I'm at around
>> 48 N give or take and it's not too bad. There was one day as
>> I mentioned in
>> an earlier post where my location (static) was jumping around
>> several miles.
>> On the map source topo maps I have for Canada one end of the
>> pond I use to
>> launch from is programmed in as 20' ( it's closer to 8') the
>> middle of the
>> pond is listed as close to 30' and the far end is 24'.
>> Imagine here in
>> Newfoundland water doesn't meet it's own level!
>>
>> With more than six satellites I will trust the speed
>> indication if it read 0
>> static before starting.
>>
>> Still like maps and usually I'll spend the time dead
>> reckoning before the
>> flight just to stay familiar with it. Then again I still
>> carry and use,
>> every chance I get, a slide rule. Amazes some people what can be
>> done
>> without batteries.
>>
>> Noel
>>
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
>>> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>>> Michel Verheughe
>>> Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 2:40 PM
>>> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>>> Subject: Kitfox-List: GPS. WAS: ASIs
>>>
>>>
>> <michel@online.no>
>>>
>>> On Feb 9, 2007, at 4:22 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:
>>>> How much do you guys trust the altitude feature of your GPS?
>>>
>>> Unless it is differential GPS, about 300 feet, Noel. And it's not
>>> likely to change. Something to do with the geoidal height table,
>>> somewhat coarse in your "worldwide" instrument and the fact
>> that the
>>> angles made by the satellites over the horizon give poor
>>> triangulation
>>> in the Y-axis (altitude).
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Michel
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Checked by PC Tools AntiVirus (3.1.0.10 - 9.058.016).
>>> http://www.pctools.com/anti-virus/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 33
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At 06:01 PM 2/12/2007, you wrote:
>All satellites in the GPS constellation are in geostationary orbit. By
>definition that means they must also be directly over the equator. The
>further away form the equator you are the greater the angle of incidence of
>any signal reaching your receiver. The greater the angle of incidence the
>greater the possibility of error both vertical and horizontal.
GPS orbit altitude: 10,988 nautical miles (Geo is about 22,300 statute miles.)
Ref: http://www.losangeles.af.mil/smc/pa/fact_sheets/gps_fs.htm
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Do not archive
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Coordinated turns to base and final |
For what it's worth, I seem to be getting the opposite behavior when turning left
base to final. I need left rudder rolling into the turn and a touch of left
to stay coordinated through the turn. As I roll into the turn, I add a little
back pressure to keep the airspeed constant. One thing that helped me tremendously
was to make sure that I didn't start the turn until the descent has stabilized
on the downwind. If I tried to turn before that point, all the forces involved
are change throughout the turn making it much more difficult to stay coordinated.
Also, my downwind to base turn is identical to my base to final.
A note about steep turns in the final. It was my understanding that a coordinated
steady state turn at 60 degrees translates to a 2g load factor. Your stall
speed goes up with the square root of the load factor. If your normal stall is
38mph, a load factor of 2 increases that to roughly 54 mph. If your speed at
base to final is 60 mph that only leaves 6mph of wiggle room. That 6 mph goes
away with just the slightest bit of additional back pressure.
Check out this web site: http://www.ufly.com/lessons/ground_maneuvers2.html
Noel: I've used a slip to loose altitiude down to 20 ft and less. Once, when flying
with my instructor, I was about to abort a landing that I would have badly
overshot when my instructor asked what I would do if my engine quit. I was
way too high by my judgement (about 500 ft) to attempt to slip it in so I stupidly
answerd a 360 turn. He took control and demonstrated slipping S turns over
the runway all the way to the ground. My scariest experience in an airplane
so far.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=94649#94649
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