Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:05 PM - Speedster Door Latch ()
2. 01:15 PM - Re: Speedster Door Latch (Tom Jones)
3. 01:56 PM - Weight Affected by Color of Plane (SkySteve)
4. 02:12 PM - Re: Speedster Door Latch (Tom Jones)
5. 02:16 PM - Re: rotax 912UL (bigboyzt0yz)
6. 02:19 PM - Re: Weight Affected by Color of Plane (Lynn Matteson)
7. 02:22 PM - Re: Weight Affected by Color of Plane (Tom Jones)
8. 02:43 PM - Re: Re: Speedster Door Latch ()
9. 02:57 PM - Re: Weight Affected by Color of Plane (SkySteve)
10. 03:32 PM - Re: Weight Affected by Color of Plane (kerrimikehickman@aol.com)
11. 03:41 PM - Re: Re: Weight Affected by Color of Plane (kirk hull)
12. 03:43 PM - Re: Weight Affected by Color of Plane (SkySteve)
13. 03:48 PM - Re: Re: Weight Affected by Color of Plane (Noel Loveys)
14. 04:10 PM - Paint Choices - Was "Weight Affected by Color of Plane& (darinh)
15. 04:31 PM - Re: Weight Affected by Color of Plane (Noel Loveys)
16. 06:39 PM - Re: Re: Weight Affected by Color of Plane (Lynn Matteson)
17. 09:10 PM - Re: Luggage Pod : For Sale (darinh)
18. 09:11 PM - Re: Luggage Pod : For Sale (rcsfca)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Speedster Door Latch |
Since there has been alot of talk about door latches I thought I'd check my
boxes to see what I had. My kit is aClassic 4 Speedster manufactured in 09/94.
The pieces I have for the door latches are not the same part #s as listed and
shown in the manual,in fact the pages are from "The Denny Aeroplane Co". There
is a suppemental page that came with it that has diagrams of the part #s I have
and measurements to make the latches.Well, pilots and engineers do not speak
the same language,and I having a hard time trying to figure it out. Also, nowhere
does it same where they are to be installed or how. If anyone has a picture
or a diagram the can send or anything other ideas on the speedster door latch
it would really help. On list or off list is fine. Leon Morris/Classic 4
(94)/ 60%/ Flower Mound, TX
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| Subject: | Re: Speedster Door Latch |
> My kit is aClassic 4 Speedster manufactured in 09/94. The pieces I have for
the door latches are not the same part #s as listed and shown in the manual,in
fact the pages are from "The Denny Aeroplane Co".
Leon, your kit came out of the factory the same month my classic 4 did...9-94.
I remember the door latch instructions did not match the parts I was supplied.
If I remember right I talked with the factory people and they sent me the new
correct instructions to match the parts. I will check my building notes and
take a picture and get back to you on this to see if yours is the same situation.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV, Phase one
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165614#165614
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| Subject: | Weight Affected by Color of Plane |
I am planning a new color and design scheme for my plane. My wife is a painter
of fine art so I consulted with her regarding both. While we were looking at
the various colors of tubes of oil paint she has, I discovered a great discrepancy
in the weight of different colors, with white being the heaviest. Red seemed
to be very light weight.
Is this true with airplane paint also? Are there colors that are much heavier
than others? If so, which colors are light weight and which colors are heavy
weight? Also, how much weight (approx) will any paint job add to a Kitfox?
Seems to me I remember years ago an airlines (I think it was Braniff) repainted
their fleet and actually had to remove seats to accommodate the extra weight
of the paint.
--------
Steve Wilson
Huntsville, UT
Kitfox I-IV 85DD
912A / 3 Blade Warp Drive
Convertable Nosewheel & Tailwheel
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165623#165623
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| Subject: | Re: Speedster Door Latch |
Okay, I,m back with some door latch info. My 1994 Classic 4 manual was delivered
with one page of door latch instructions from Denny aerocraft that no way resemble
the parts shown.
The attached pictures show the latch and the first page of the five pages of instructions
I received later that match the parts shown. Leon, let me know if
you need hard copies of these instructions.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV, Phase one
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165625#165625
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/door_latch_instructions_291.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/door_latch_outside_232.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/door_latch_inside_208.jpg
Message 5
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I was having the same issue with the RPM not getting to 5K. I fooled with it (one
whole day) moving the pitch down till I got to 11 Deg. and it now works just
great. The Plane comes right off the ground and climbs at 1150 FPM and with
2 it is right around 1000 FPM.
My friend Ray has a IV but his has a 912 ULS and it has 16 Deg. in the same Warp
Drive prop. His is not as loud as mine upon take off. It was kinda the reason
that I was looking (another thread) to move up from the 912 ULS that was before
I joined the list.
My ground RPM did start coming up till I got closer to the 11 deg number and now
it is just great. The past owner had the pitch at 20 and it is a good thing
that he never tried to fly it cause it would have needed 5K worth of runway and
no trees at the end.
It has a good cruise at around 115 / 1500 feet MSL /4900 RPM this past Sunday.
--------
Lee Fritz in owings Mills Md. 2002 KitFox-IV Classic/912UL/Warp drive prop/100%
Complete (just adding the Extras now) /71 hours time on plane since Aug 07 "Have
your feet on the Pedals and keep reaching for the sky".
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165626#165626
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| Subject: | Re: Weight Affected by Color of Plane |
I'm not sure of airplane paint, but your mention of red being very
light in weight reminded me that red is, or was, the worst color for
fading. It seems to attract light, UV, or whatever, and fades badly.
One look at old barns, for example, will show the fading of the red
color. I've seen lots of red cars that will show fading long before
cars of equal age but painted a different color.
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/475+ hrs
do not archive
On Feb 22, 2008, at 4:53 PM, SkySteve wrote:
>
> I am planning a new color and design scheme for my plane. My wife
> is a painter of fine art so I consulted with her regarding both.
> While we were looking at the various colors of tubes of oil paint
> she has, I discovered a great discrepancy in the weight of
> different colors, with white being the heaviest. Red seemed to be
> very light weight.
>
> Is this true with airplane paint also? Are there colors that are
> much heavier than others? If so, which colors are light weight and
> which colors are heavy weight? Also, how much weight (approx) will
> any paint job add to a Kitfox?
>
> Seems to me I remember years ago an airlines (I think it was
> Braniff) repainted their fleet and actually had to remove seats to
> accommodate the extra weight of the paint.
>
> --------
> Steve Wilson
> Huntsville, UT
> Kitfox I-IV 85DD
> 912A / 3 Blade Warp Drive
> Convertable Nosewheel & Tailwheel
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165623#165623
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Weight Affected by Color of Plane |
> Also, how much weight (approx) will any paint job add to a Kitfox?
Steve, I don't know about different weights for different colors. Of course the
paint is much lighter dry than it is in liquid form due to the solvents evaporating.
I do know that a wise old airplane builder once told me "Fancy paint
jobs are heavy".
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV, Phase one
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165627#165627
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Speedster Door Latch |
Thanks Tom for the quick response.The pictures should help me figure it out.
I'm still haven't figured out the striker plate yet.The instructions might help
in that aspect,as I can't figure how it is fabricated.--- Leon/Classic 4 Speedster
---- Tom Jones <nahsikhs@elltel.net> wrote:
>
> Okay, I,m back with some door latch info. My 1994 Classic 4 manual was delivered
with one page of door latch instructions from Denny aerocraft that no way
resemble the parts shown.
>
> The attached pictures show the latch and the first page of the five pages of
instructions I received later that match the parts shown. Leon, let me know if
you need hard copies of these instructions.
>
> --------
> Tom Jones
> Classic IV, Phase one
> 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
> Ellensburg, WA
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165625#165625
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/door_latch_instructions_291.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/door_latch_outside_232.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/door_latch_inside_208.jpg
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Weight Affected by Color of Plane |
Lynn, I agree that red seems to fade very easily. And Tom, it makes sense that
dry paint is very much lighter than wet paint. Of course, all of the paint we
examined was wet, of equal amount. But there was a very large difference is
weight, I mean the white was 2 to 3 times heavier than some other colors. Blue
was also very light weight.
--------
Steve Wilson
Huntsville, UT
Kitfox I-IV 85DD
912A / 3 Blade Warp Drive
Convertable Nosewheel & Tailwheel
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165632#165632
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Weight Affected by Color of Plane |
Hi Steve,
I've flown for 25 years, from Cessna 150s thru many Air Force birds thru commercial
Boeings/Airbus types.? Now in Airbus 320s and a yellow Series 6 Kitfox (good
thing for the kitfox or I'd lose touch with "real flying" and the real flying
community).
Our fox is a great airplane design, but so drag-laden compared to a clean airframe
design that to me personally it makes no difference what paint is used.?
There would be many other theoretical changes to approach before I'd sacrifice
the cool-factor available with an experimental aircraft paint job.? (gap seals,
aerodynamic fairings everywhere, vortex generators, winglets/drooped tips, prop
choice/pitch adjustments, etc...
The paint is what makes this type of project personal, and a man's paint job is
a reflection of personality over functionality.?
-Now on the other hand is a personality like my brother's.? He's into ultra-light
backpacking; his sleeping bag may be cold, but it only weighs 14 oz. and packs
into a fist-sized ball.? To sacrifice pack weight he cut the handle off his
plastic eating spoon, counts out his bio-degradable t.p. squares down to the
pre-documented necessity, and relies on nasty (but light) iodine tablets instead
of?a water pump to take care of his creek water.? In other words, he is a
weight fanatic...not that there's anything wrong with that. His weight savings
gives him great pride and possibly an easier trip up the mountain.
The somewhat diluted point being, a man's paint job is a personal thing.
(by the way, American Airlines still seems to have their fleet unpainted. The weight
savings at that scale and when almost everything else is aerodynamic equates
to a great fuel savings/especially when burning over 3000 gal/hr).
Good luck w/your decision.? By the way, I always wanted to have some nose-art painted
on my Series 6...Something slinky in honor of the WWII birds/pilots.?Must
be nice having an artist in the family.
Mike Hickman
Series 6
Longmont, CO
-----Original Message-----
From: SkySteve <Wilson@REinfo.org>
Sent: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 2:53 pm
Subject: Kitfox-List: Weight Affected by Color of Plane
I am planning a new color and design scheme for my plane. My wife is a painter
of fine art so I consulted with her regarding both. While we were looking at
the various colors of tubes of oil paint she has, I discovered a great
discrepancy in the weight of different colors, with white being the heaviest.
Red seemed to be very light weight.
Is this true with airplane paint also? Are there colors that are much heavier
than others? If so, which colors are light weight and which colors are heavy
weight? Also, how much weight (approx) will any paint job add to a Kitfox?
Seems to me I remember years ago an airlines (I think it was Braniff) repainted
their fleet and actually had to remove seats to accommodate the extra weight of
the paint.
--------
Steve Wilson
Huntsville, UT
Kitfox I-IV 85DD
912A / 3 Blade Warp Drive
Convertable Nosewheel & Tailwheel
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165623#165623
________________________________________________________________________
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Weight Affected by Color of Plane |
205AK is red and to get an even color on all of the parts you have to paint
the whole plane white then go ontop of that with the red. It adds just that
much more weight
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of SkySteve
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 4:55 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Weight Affected by Color of Plane
Lynn, I agree that red seems to fade very easily. And Tom, it makes sense
that dry paint is very much lighter than wet paint. Of course, all of the
paint we examined was wet, of equal amount. But there was a very large
difference is weight, I mean the white was 2 to 3 times heavier than some
other colors. Blue was also very light weight.
--------
Steve Wilson
Huntsville, UT
Kitfox I-IV 85DD
912A / 3 Blade Warp Drive
Convertable Nosewheel & Tailwheel
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165632#165632
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Weight Affected by Color of Plane |
Mike,
Point well put. And maybe I will do a little creative design. . . hmm, let's see
. . . [Twisted Evil]
--------
Steve Wilson
Huntsville, UT
Kitfox I-IV 85DD
912A / 3 Blade Warp Drive
Convertable Nosewheel & Tailwheel
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165644#165644
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Weight Affected by Color of Plane |
I guess that it is only reasonable to assume that different pigments made
from different compounds would have different weights. For example I think
the white pigment is usually lead, zinc or titanium compounds.... all
pretty heavy. Iron oxides are the basis for some red paints and are a
little lighter. Black paint which it is only reasonable to assume would be
the heaviest... heavy colour and all that is actually quite light because
most of it is soot, or more correctly carbon.
Just for fun try http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigment different colours are
hyperlinks to additional pages...
Now for a question for Lynn... You have been in the photographic industry
long enough to know this... when colour photos fade what colour do they
fade to? :-)
Another question... if it is true that red fades faster why do farmers ever
paint their barns a colour that would require more work?? After you think
of an idea or two look at http://people.howstuffworks.com/question635.htm
FWIW my plane isn't white and red, but white with Day-Glo orange with navy
blue trim. I haven't found where the builder got the day glo.
Sigtaturea
Noel Loveys
Campbellton, NL, Canada
CDN AME intern, PP-Rec
C-FINB, Kitfox III-A
582 B box, Ivo IFA, Aerocet 1100 floats
noelloveys@yahoo.ca
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of SkySteve
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 7:25 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Weight Affected by Color of Plane
Lynn, I agree that red seems to fade very easily. And Tom, it makes sense
that dry paint is very much lighter than wet paint. Of course, all of the
paint we examined was wet, of equal amount. But there was a very large
difference is weight, I mean the white was 2 to 3 times heavier than some
other colors. Blue was also very light weight.
--------
Steve Wilson
Huntsville, UT
Kitfox I-IV 85DD
912A / 3 Blade Warp Drive
Convertable Nosewheel & Tailwheel
Message 14
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| Subject: | Paint Choices - Was "Weight Affected by Color of Plane& |
SkySteve,
It seems counter-intuitive to me that red would be lighter than white simply because
reds always require much higher amount of pigments (solids) than do the
whites. I would think that the pigment would be what gave the paint weight (at
least when dry, obviously solvents, reducers, etc. add weight when uncured).
About the fading issue...you are right, darker colors tend to fade quicker than
the lighter ones...having said this, the technology that goes into UV protection
and paint chemistry today means that a quality paint that is taken care of
will easily last 20-30 years. My last kitfox was 9 years old and didn't show
any fading (Aerothane paint) and my new Series 7 has a majority of the scheme
that is red.
I chose to paint (I am painting now) my series 7 using PPG Delfleet paints. Yes,
I used Polyfiber fabric and undercoatings and know they strongly recommend
not using auto paints...according to them, any other paint other than Ranthane,
Aerothane or Poly-tone are not does not meet the STC requirements. However,
I found out that Aviat uses PPG Delfleet (same stuff I am using) to paint all
their Huskies and they are obviously certified aircraft.
I don't have anything against the Ranthane or Aerothane, I just wanted a system
that I knew the spray characteristics of and the PPG was it. I have never sprayed
Aerothane or Ranthane but have heard they can be very tricky to spray.
The Delfleet is a breeze for anyone who has sprayed automotive paints before.
For anyone wondering, the Delfleet line of paints are extremely flexible, in
fact, one color I am using was specially formulated for Aviat. PPG in my mind
is one of the best paint manufacturers out there so I trust their products...after
all, if it is good enough for a $200k Husky, it should be overkill for my
Fox. Just some interesting information I thought I would pass along on other
paint choices for those making the decisison.
--------
Darin Hawkes
Series 7 (under Construction)
914 Turbo
Kaysville, Utah
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165650#165650
Message 15
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| Subject: | Weight Affected by Color of Plane |
Draw up your nose art on your computer and have an auto customizer make
decals... That way if you get a scratch in the wring place you can always
replace the nose art the same as original. This is the piece I did up and
e-mailed to a shop about sixty road miles away. It's now on the tail of my
plane.
beothuckTEXTURE2sm.JPG
P003726.jpg
Signature
Noel Loveys
Campbellton, NL, Canada
CDN AME intern, PP-Rec
C-FINB, Kitfox III-A
582 B box, Ivo IFA, Aerocet 1100 floats
noelloveys@yahoo.ca
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
kerrimikehickman@aol.com
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 7:58 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Weight Affected by Color of Plane
Good luck w/your decision. By the way, I always wanted to have some
nose-art painted on my Series 6...Something slinky in honor of the WWII
birds/pilots. Must be nice having an artist in the family.
Mike Hickman
Series 6
Longmont, CO
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Weight Affected by Color of Plane |
On Feb 22, 2008, at 6:45 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:
>
> Now for a question for Lynn... You have been in the photographic
> industry long enough to know this... when colour photos fade what
> colour do they fade to? :-)
It seems like they fade to a yellowish green, The cyan layer is
usually the first to go, if I recall correctly. Of course cyan is
bluish, and...oh, damn, I'm forgetting my additive and subtractive
colors.... And of course there's a difference, isn't there, as to
whether you're talking about a fading transparency or a fading
print.................I think. : )
I recall a study where they tested slides in both Kodachrome and
Ektachrome, and prints in Cibachrome, Ektaflex?, Ektacolor?, (can't
believe I've forgotten so much photo stuff in 7 years) to see whether
they faded more in the dark or in the light and what kind of
light....fluorescent, tungsten or daylight. I think the dark speaks
for itself.
Ok, Professor Noel, I'm just rambling here, as it's obvious I don't
know the answer and I'm just hoping the bell will ring and I can
escape to my airplane and leave this embarrassment behind. : )
(please do not archive my stupidity) : )
>
>
> Another question... if it is true that red fades faster why do
> farmers ever paint their barns a colour that would require more
> work?? After you think of an idea or two look at http://
> people.howstuffworks.com/question635.htm
Dunno, but one theory I heard was that early barns were painted
with available colors....earth tones, made from red clay?
I drive by a faded metal barn almost every day that is almost back to
the parent metal color, and that's what reminds me of the fading
issues with the color red.
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/475+ hrs
do not archive
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Luggage Pod : For Sale |
Larry,
Is it just this one he has for sale or does he produce them? What is the capacity
and how to your access the compartment? Looks like a good design, almost
like the luggage pods on the super cubs and C206s.
--------
Darin Hawkes
Series 7 (under Construction)
914 Turbo
Kaysville, Utah
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165676#165676
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Luggage Pod : For Sale |
I bought it from him this morning.
In case any of you were wondering WHY he was selling the pod, it's because the
plane was wrecked in an accident several years ago but the pod (and John!) survived.
Rich Cunningham
Model IV-1200 / 912UL
San Francisco East Bay
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165677#165677
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