Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:05 AM - Re: Level Point for KF2 (steve shinabery)
2. 06:24 AM - Re: Little Kitfox Movie (Michael Logan)
3. 10:26 AM - Ethanol - facts and no myths or fiction (Bob Brennan)
4. 10:43 AM - RES: Ethanol - facts and no myths or fiction (Francisco Espuny)
5. 11:50 AM - RK400 Clutch (Bryan Quinton)
6. 11:50 AM - Re: Re: 100LL/Ethanol Myths - Facts and/or fiction? (Noel Loveys)
7. 12:01 PM - Re: Aveoflash strobe lights (Catz631@aol.com)
8. 12:18 PM - Re: Re: 2 stroke oil - Pennzoil update (mscotter@comcast.net)
9. 12:32 PM - Re: Aveoflash strobe lights (Lynn Matteson)
10. 01:01 PM - Re: Re: RES: 100LL/Ethanol Myths - Facts and/or fiction? (Noel Loveys)
11. 01:09 PM - Re: Re: 100LL/Ethanol Myths - Facts and/or fiction?Re: 100LL/Ethano (Noel Loveys)
12. 01:18 PM - Re: Re: 100LL/Ethanol Myths - Facts and/or fiction? (Noel Loveys)
13. 01:39 PM - Re: Re: RES: 100LL/Ethanol Myths - Facts and/or fiction? (Noel Loveys)
14. 02:02 PM - RES: Re: 100LL/Ethanol Myths - Facts and/or fiction? (Francisco Espuny)
15. 02:46 PM - Re: Ethanol - facts and no myths or fiction (K&MCozik)
16. 03:08 PM - Re: Ethanol - facts and no myths or fiction (Frank Miles)
17. 03:31 PM - RES: Re: RES: 100LL/Ethanol Myths - Facts and/or fiction? (Francisco Espuny)
18. 03:38 PM - RES: Ethanol - facts and no myths or fiction (Francisco Espuny)
19. 03:41 PM - Re: Lacquer thinners and wheel pants (gary.algate@sandvik.com)
20. 04:11 PM - Re: Re: RES: 100LL/Ethanol Myths - Facts and/or fiction? (Frank Miles)
21. 04:26 PM - Re: Model 4 gear (gary.algate@sandvik.com)
22. 04:35 PM - Re: Lacquer thinners (gary.algate@sandvik.com)
23. 05:11 PM - RES: Re: RES: 100LL/Ethanol Myths - Facts and/or fiction? (Francisco Espuny)
24. 05:24 PM - Re: Ethanol - facts and no myths or fiction (Bob Brennan)
25. 05:31 PM - Re: Re: 2 stroke oil - Pennzoil update (Rexinator)
26. 05:34 PM - Re: Re: RES: 100LL/Ethanol Myths - Facts and/or fiction? (Frank Miles)
27. 05:52 PM - hobbs times (Sbennett3@AOL.COM)
28. 06:03 PM - Re: hobbs times (Bob Brennan)
29. 06:51 PM - Re: Lacquer thinners (Lynn Matteson)
30. 08:19 PM - RES: Re: RES: 100LL/Ethanol Myths - Facts and/or fiction? (Francisco Espuny)
31. 09:26 PM - Re: Lacquer thinners (gary.algate@sandvik.com)
32. 09:31 PM - Re: RK400 Clutch (Guy Buchanan)
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| Subject: | Re: Level Point for KF2 |
Dee Young wrote:
> Level the bottom of the fuselage each way using good carpenters level.
>
> Dee Young
> Model II
> N345DY
>
> Do not archive
> *
>
>
> *
> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>
Thanks Lee.I am on my way 2 the airport now to re weigh.Steve Shinabery
N554KF KF2
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| Subject: | Little Kitfox Movie |
Nice video Jack. How do you have the camera mounted to the wing?
Mike
Series 5 EA81
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rudderdancer
Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 12:40 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Little Kitfox Movie
Hi all,
I thought I would try to give back to the list with this little movie. I'm
still trying to get used to this lighter, more sensitive aircraft. This
takes place at
a local dry lake, El Mirage, here in the high desert of California. Edwards
AFB is just over some hills from it. It was already 100 degrees by the time
I took off and the lake bed is at around 3,000 ft., so the DA was over 5,000
ft.
I know when I was looking at and for a Kitfox, I really appreciated the
videos that some on this list had provided. On take off with full flaps,
even on this hot high day, was really short by Stinson and Cessna standards.
I still haven't worked out where the wheels are exactly on landing yet.
Thanks for
letting me post it.
web site: http://homepage.mac.com/gaggy/iMovieTheater8.html
Regards,
Jack ( jhenryhall@mac.com)
--------
J. Henry Hall
Kitfox II, 582, Tundra Tires,
rusty pilot.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=198686#198686
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| Subject: | Ethanol - facts and no myths or fiction |
Personally measured and observed facts anyway, and as little opinion as
possible.
Getting ready for my first flight since importing my KF2 from the UK almost
2 years ago, I decided to take what knowledge I had gained from the ethanol
debates and apply it, and I am glad that I did. Here is what I have found so
far:
In the UK I used "regular" petrol rated at 89 octane and I never tested for
ethanol, although my UK built plane is placarded in a number of places
warning *not* to use fuel with any alcohol in it.
I periodically ran-up the engine for a year and a half on US regular gas
bought a year and a half ago. I know - stale gas, bad move, yada yada... I
have already chastised myself on that one.
I bought new "regular" (87 octane, Sam's Club) about a month ago and drained
the system of the old gas. I then began noticing dark fuel and black
sediment when draining the sump before starting the engine.
Much to my chagrin I noticed my fuel drain tool, bought in the UK years ago,
was actually a calibrated alcohol tester so I decided to buy and test some
local fuel to find something acceptable to fly with. Here is what I found,
on this date in Wrightsville &York PA:
Sam's Club Regular - $3.44/gal - stated as 87 octane - tested as 6% ethanol
Rutter's Premium - $3.85/gal - stated as 93 octane - tested as 5% ethanol
Turkey Hill Premium - $3.75/gal - stated as 92 octane - tested as 0% ethanol
The Turkey Hill gas is in my plane, the rest went in my Jeep, and I will buy
and test Turkey Hill regular for the rest of my gas-powered toys in future,
hoping that also is ethanol free. At least for now.
Now for an opinion - contrary to listers who said they use ethanol with no
problems - I assume my short use of ethanol-laced regular (never flying)
caused a breakdown of rubber fuel elements, true to warnings posted
everywhere and the cause of the drained fuel contamination. I will carefully
watch for any further contamination (I expect a little yet) and will then
replace lines and filter(s). Note that I never ran the engine until all
contaminants were drained out.
As stated throughout - this is all "for what it's worth" - but I try to base
it on experience rather than opinion, and can post more test results if
anyone is interested. Live and loin, I always say...
Bob Brennan
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
Message 4
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| Subject: | Ethanol - facts and no myths or fiction |
Good observation and wise decision.
De: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] Em nome de Bob Brennan
Enviada em: domingo, 17 de agosto de 2008 14:25
Para: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Assunto: Kitfox-List: Ethanol - facts and no myths or fiction
Personally measured and observed facts anyway, and as little opinion as
possible.
Getting ready for my first flight since importing my KF2 from the UK almost
2 years ago, I decided to take what knowledge I had gained from the ethanol
debates and apply it, and I am glad that I did. Here is what I have found so
far:
In the UK I used "regular" petrol rated at 89 octane and I never tested for
ethanol, although my UK built plane is placarded in a number of places
warning *not* to use fuel with any alcohol in it.
I periodically ran-up the engine for a year and a half on US regular gas
bought a year and a half ago. I know - stale gas, bad move, yada yada... I
have already chastised myself on that one.
I bought new "regular" (87 octane, Sam's Club) about a month ago and drained
the system of the old gas. I then began noticing dark fuel and black
sediment when draining the sump before starting the engine.
Much to my chagrin I noticed my fuel drain tool, bought in the UK years ago,
was actually a calibrated alcohol tester so I decided to buy and test some
local fuel to find something acceptable to fly with. Here is what I found,
on this date in Wrightsville &York PA:
Sam's Club Regular - $3.44/gal - stated as 87 octane - tested as 6% ethanol
Rutter's Premium - $3.85/gal - stated as 93 octane - tested as 5% ethanol
Turkey Hill Premium - $3.75/gal - stated as 92 octane - tested as 0% ethanol
The Turkey Hill gas is in my plane, the rest went in my Jeep, and I will buy
and test Turkey Hill regular for the rest of my gas-powered toys in future,
hoping that also is ethanol free. At least for now.
Now for an opinion - contrary to listers who said they use ethanol with no
problems - I assume my short use of ethanol-laced regular (never flying)
caused a breakdown of rubber fuel elements, true to warnings posted
everywhere and the cause of the drained fuel contamination. I will carefully
watch for any further contamination (I expect a little yet) and will then
replace lines and filter(s). Note that I never ran the engine until all
contaminants were drained out.
As stated throughout - this is all "for what it's worth" - but I try to base
it on experience rather than opinion, and can post more test results if
anyone is interested. Live and loin, I always say...
Bob Brennan
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
_____
Esta mensagem foi verificada pelo E-mail <http://mail.terra.com.br/>
Protegido Terra.
Atualizado em 16/08/2008
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Anyone using or have an opinion about switching to a RK400 clutch? I
need to replace my hardy disk (not sure yet why it came apart) and was
considering going to a clutch instead. Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Bryan Quinton
Model II 582
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| Subject: | Re: 100LL/Ethanol Myths - Facts and/or fiction? |
Francisco:
First I=92m in Canada a... North of the U.S. but when you share a
continent
with a country as large and as powerful as the U.S. sometimes you play
along. Why not? almost everyone I know has relatives living in the
U.S..
In fact I think my family may have then surrounded!
You mention adding gas to the eth to make cars easier to start. As you
know
the cars get harder to start as the temperature drops... At various
times of
the year the temperature really plummets to the point where I used to
put a
small drop of gas in my Diesel car to keep the fuel from gelling.
The word flex comes from flexible. What you described is a vehicle that
is
built specifically to burn ethanol. It will run too rich and at too
high a
CR to be able to use any gas. The fact the first cars ran weakly was
because they weren=92t getting enough fuel. Motorcycles run the same
way as
they lean out just before you pull the reserve tank. To be a true Flex
vehicle it would have to have variable compression ratio, multi fuel
injection mapping and of course multi fuel ignition timing. I don=92t
think
any of these vehicles have any of those things. I think, but do not
know
for sure, the only thing done with the so called =93Flex=94 vehicles
north of
mexico is a slight remapping of the EFI making it run much richer. I
doubt
they have either the sensors or the programming to differentiate
different
fuels. In fact the only true flex fuel engine is a turbine and even
with
those they have to be mapped so you won=92t burn out the hot section
while
using some fuels.
As I have mentioned before in your country ethanol is made from surplus
In
Canada and the U.S. ethanol production displaces food production so the
end
effect is increased inflation. Proof was in Fridays newspaper and will
be
in tomorrow=92s newspaper too. Politics and economics aside there are
several
other reasons why not to use ethanol in aviation especially in normally
aspirated, carburetted piston powered airplanes. If you have fuel
injected
engines with super or turbo, chargers and lightly pressurized fuel
supplies
then it becomes a bit of a different ball game. Problem is once an
engine
is converted to be efficient at using ethanol as a fuel it will no
longer be
efficient at using gasoline. Diesel engines which will work wonderfully
on
ethanol will only do so until the high pressure injection pumps bite the
dust. Diesel fuel lubricates the pumps...Ethanol will tear the
stuffings
out of them!
What is needed is a standard for the fuel, the way it is handled and the
way
it is used to be safe. A little moisture in the fuel on an icing day
can
cause excessive icing and on hot days may cause vapour lock. Closed,
pressurized, preferably with nitrogen, systems are the only way to go.
Noel
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Francisco
Espuny
Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 4:15 AM
Subject: RES: Kitfox-List: Re: 100LL/Ethanol Myths - Facts and/or
fiction?
Hi, Noel.
I'll try to tell you what I know. In my country the common cityzen knows
how
a flex engine works, because it's the final point of a long evolution
that
affected any driver.
Well, I just don't know if the "flex" tech you have inside USA is the
same
we have here, but I can say that all modern auto techs comes from the
evolution of 1970's brazilian Proalcool, a government financed sugar
cane
reserch and production system (with money loaned from your countries, of
course). Nowadays all investments are private except for Petrobras
that's a
state controlled open capital company.
First there were cars for hidrated ethanol or gas, separetely, no one
could
run on blends. Alchool cars could not be fueled with gas, for their
compression rate was higer and could be damaged, but many people added
some
gas to alchool for a better start in cold mornings, and there was a gas
bottle and a little pump to help at cold starts. Gas cars, if fueled
with
alchool worked as a heart having a stroke, or simply did not work.
The first alchool cars' carburetors looked like an old boat hull, full
of
deposits and corrosion. So were mufflers , pumps and other. First, they
niquel plated them, and after some years, developed new materials that
could
resist the contact with alchool itself.
A flex car means that the engine has a higer compression to allow
ethanol
explosion, while more resistant to bear gas explosion at higher CR, plus
many sensors and a computerized injection system and all parts ethanol
resistant. Some of the sensors analyse the exaust gas and can determine
the
fuel composition. There's still a plus little gas tank and a temp
sensor; if
temperature outside is low and sensors find too much alchool in fuel
composition, a pump adds some gas to the mixture to a smoother start.
That's
all, and not too different from your gas cars. They're trusty and last a
lot, as any gas car. There's no bad smell, no different sounds, just the
convenience of fuelling the way you want. It's even not more expensive
and
the fuel is cheaper, to compensate less mileage.
Some chemicals are added to ethanol and eth-gas, so it's not a good idea
to
deliver it on whiskey bottles, as someone wrote. The engine oil remain
yellow by the change time, while gas cars turns it into black, and
escape
gases are less dangerous, but there's more water expelled from the scape
;
the water that is added to ethanol in the distillery and the one that
results from combustion (fuel+O2=H20+CO2). There are less deposits
because
of more complete burn and absence of some gas components (that's all I
know
about it). And I dont have information about cleaning previous burnt gas
deposits,sorry.
No need added mantainance, also.
A few years ago, french government analyzed an eth car and determined
that
the gases could affect the psych, like making people laugh (it's not a
joke).
Believe-me. I love cars, I spend too much on them, and I hated the
alchool
ones (I used to call them "bombs"), but I love the "flexes". It's great
now
that we have all these techs. It's no BS and no political conspiration.
Talking of power, a flex Civic Si , a GM S10 or any other car, is
guaranteed
by the factory to have power increased a little when fueled with
ethanol. We
confirm this on private dynamometers at the garages everytime someone
goes
to a tune.
But never try to fuel a '67 Mustang with ethanol, or your friend's V8.
The
602 is strong and may burn some eth, but it'll never be the same. Nor
the
B&W carbs .
When I said 30% less mileage , I was comparing uses of both fuels in a
flex
car, or cars specific for each fuel. That's true. Here, you find tables
to
compare costs of fuels considering mileage and decide what to buy at the
pumps everywhere, on newspapers, auto magazines, etc. They all use the
30%
rule. I suppose your friend's car is experiencing little mileage because
it
was not meant to use ethanol, not built and not tuned to. I have a flex
pickup and it's better than my last diesel one.
But, I repeat, in my opinion all these modifications and more have to be
done to planes before they use ethanol, or they'll work as a heart on
stroke
too. And I say "more" because there are more variables inside a flying
plane
than in a car, like quick pressure changes, temperature, inertia,
vibration,
moisture, volume and shape of tanks, etc .
Let's open our minds and wait. It's destiny. Oil will become rare and
expensive, biofuels will take the world. Flex planes will be fine
someday.
By now, only good hi-oct eth-free gas.
Espuny
I talk too much...someone, please, stop me!
De: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] Em nome de Noel Loveys
Enviada em: s=E1bado, 16 de agosto de 2008 00:26
Para: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Assunto: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: 100LL/Ethanol Myths - Facts and/or
fiction?
That is assuming the engine has had all the little goodies like
increasing
the CR to make it burn ethanol most efficiently. With low CR engines
with
mapping for gasoline you can easily reduce your mileage by close to 40
%.
The guy I was talking to said his mileage for a tank of fuel went from
500Km/tank to over 600km.tank. That is an increase of mileage of better
than 20%. His pickup is a low CR high displacement V8.
In terms of BTU ethanol is supposed to have about 67% the power of
gasoline
per unit volume. In other words to get 67% of the mileage you would have
to
retune or rebuild the engine specifically to burn ethanol efficiently.
If
you do this your engine will no longer burn gasoline efficiently.
Here is a small raft of questions...
*What exactly do U.S. car makers mean when they say their cars are flex
fuel??
*Do these vehicles have variable CR for different mixes of fuel or do
they
only have seals that ethanol won=92t eat out in a few months?
*Do they have variable fuel mapping for different mixes of fuel?
*Do they have variable controls on turbo charging waste gates?
*Is the whole idea of Flex Fuel just a way of recognizing that the
governments of both out lands are sending us down a slippery slope?
*Is the Idea of =93Flex Fuel=94 vehicles totally hype because there is
not one
iota difference in the engines made today and what was made two years
ago?
*Just how do these machines determine the mix of the fuel it=92s being
fed?
I know one method (Capacitance) but I expect it would be expensive to
incorporate in a car or truck.
Using the occasional tank of ethanol will no doubt clean out the top end
of
your engine...
*What does it do with the dirt it cleans out???
*What does it do to the top end of your engine is there is no dirt
present?
Noel
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Francisco
Espuny
Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 12:03 AM
Subject: RES: Kitfox-List: Re: 100LL/Ethanol Myths - Facts and/or
fiction?
Although delivering a little more power, ethanol (100%) is proven to
give
about 30% less mileage than gas(100%). At 10% ethanol in a properly set
up
engine, you should lose just 3% .
Espuny
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
_____
Esta mensagem foi verificada pelo E-mail <http://mail.terra.com.br/>
Protegido Terra.
Atualizado em 16/08/2008
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| Subject: | Re: Aveoflash strobe lights |
Well, I installed my strobes today and am very happy with them!
I got rid of the power pack, wiring and lights and saved myself almost 4
lbs. The biggest benefit is the power draw. These buggers only draw 250 milliamps
for the pair !! Now that is nothing!
If you want to read about these go to _http://kitplanesmag.blogspot.com_
(http://kitplanesmag.blogspot.com) Here's a picture. I could not capture the
strobe flash although I tried. Are these neat looking or what. " The visible
strobe"
Dick Maddux
Fox 4-1200
Pensacola,Fl
**************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget?
Read reviews on AOL Autos.
(http://autos.aol.com/cars-Volkswagen-Jetta-2009/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00030000000007 )
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| Subject: | Re: 2 stroke oil - Pennzoil update |
Forgive the basic question here, but I am just not that
Familiar with aircraft 2-strokes. What exactly is it that happens to crankshafts?
Is it just corrosion?
-Mark Scott
------Original Message------
From: dave
Sender: Kitfox list
ReplyTo: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Aug 15, 2008 5:48 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: 2 stroke oil - Pennzoil update
Rex, Good update on oils. I will tell you that I use Bombardier oil XPS mineral
oil that you can buy in bulk or containers from any Ski Doo and Sea Doo shop.
IT is API -TC rated and works excellent. I just changed to a new 582 as
my last one had 500 hours on it and never was apart yet. I took a few pics of
the piston and it looks great if you want to see let me know .
I am planning on changing over to Shell Advance oil which is API-TC rated as well
as most of my local guys already have. I have used this in other planes for
over 25 years now along with Castrol Super 2 stroke oil which again is API-TC
rated. Pennzoil is hard to get in Canada. My Rotaxes have worked flawless
and I contribute alot of that to the use of these oils.
Stay away from oils not rated API-TC -- eg - TCW3 ( outboard oil)
and stay away from synthetic oils.blends unless you are running them 3 or more
times per week. - EVERY WEEK !! I do sell cranks but I rather see the right
oil used and your crank last longer.
Dave
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=198695#198695
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
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| Subject: | Re: Aveoflash strobe lights |
Dick-
Try setting the film speed real slow...ASA 80 or lower, or try
setting the camera on manual and set it for maybe 1 or 2 seconds.
Then, using a tripod, make your shot without the on-camera flash...it
looks like you used flash in this shot...did you? Can you set the
flashing rate of those strobes?
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200
Status: "Condition grounded, but determined to try." (Pink
Floyd..."Learning to Fly")
do not archive
On Aug 17, 2008, at 3:01 PM, Catz631@aol.com wrote:
> Well, I installed my strobes today and am very happy with them!
> I got rid of the power pack, wiring and lights and saved myself
> almost 4 lbs. The biggest benefit is the power draw. These buggers
> only draw 250 milliamps for the pair !! Now that is nothing!
> If you want to read about these go to http://
> kitplanesmag.blogspot.com Here's a picture. I could not capture
> the strobe flash although I tried. Are these neat looking or what.
> " The visible strobe"
> Dick Maddux
> Fox 4-1200
> Pensacola,Fl
>
>
> Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read
> reviews on AOL Autos.
> <Kitfox 038.jpg>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: RES: 100LL/Ethanol Myths - Facts and/or fiction? |
For the sake of trivia, that ship, I think, is The Caribou... 179 meters
(close to 587ft) long. In most countries of the world this is what they
would describe as one mother of an icebreaker! I've seen truckers pay big
money to have their rigs first in line to go out in seas like those in the
clip. All guts no brains!
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave
Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 9:20 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: RES: 100LL/Ethanol Myths - Facts and/or
fiction?
I have never actually met anyone who thought ethanol fuel (as presently
implemented) was a good idea, not even the environmentalists. I expect there
are some who buy the idea, but currently the production has too many
downsides.
The only true alternative out there at present is a lead free aviation fuel.
That may coming, we'll see. Noel, I doubt that Harper has any real interest
in anything NFLD does as long as Danny is around. We Maritimers have do not
control enough seats in the house to matter. But I doubt you'll EVER see
ethanol fuel in your pumps. For those who don't know, everything in NFLD is
sent by container or truck. Here is a clip of how Noel's Kitfox likely
travelled to the rock.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cwxtb-I6bXU
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: 100LL/Ethanol Myths - Facts and/or fiction?Re: 100LL/Ethano |
I don't suppose you're interested in sending either one of them on an
extended vacation north of 49 40' ? Some poor sons of guns think corvettes
are sports cars. I'm green with envy.
What is the model of the other car... It looks triumph but the model isn't
familiar.
Noel
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Catz631@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 10:14 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: 100LL/Ethanol Myths - Facts and/or fiction?Re:
100LL/Ethano
My two Triumph TR3's purr like a kitten on 100LL
Dick Maddux
Pensacola, Fl
_____
Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read
<http://autos.aol.com/cars-Volkswagen-Jetta-2009/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00
030000000007> reviews on AOL Autos.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: 100LL/Ethanol Myths - Facts and/or fiction? |
It will on an engine that has been specifically designed to run on ethanol.
The same engine will run way too rich for gas and may get a block or two
before completely fouling the plugs. In a normal infernal (no typo:-))
combustion engine designed to burn gas ethanol only is very enimic!
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lowell Fitt
Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 11:18 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: 100LL/Ethanol Myths - Facts and/or fiction?
Francisco,
Please explain how ethanol delivers more power and does less work. This
sounds like a major contradiction.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Francisco Espuny" <espuny@terra.com.br>
Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 7:32 PM
Subject: RES: Kitfox-List: Re: 100LL/Ethanol Myths - Facts and/or fiction?
> Although delivering a little more power, ethanol (100%) is proven to give
> about 30% less mileage than gas(100%). At 10% ethanol in a properly set up
> engine, you should lose just 3% .
>
>
> Espuny
>
>
> De: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] Em nome de Noel Loveys
> Enviada em: sexta-feira, 15 de agosto de 2008 22:41
> Para: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Assunto: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: 100LL/Ethanol Myths - Facts and/or fiction?
>
>
> Dave:
>
>
> Just today a guy who recently moved here form southern Ontario mentioned
> to
> me he is getting a lot better fuel mileage in his pickup truck than he did
> in Ontario... Just one of the pleasant side effects of not having ethanol
> in the gas!
>
>
> As for ethanol vs. 100 LL I think I'd opt for the ethanol or even try
> washing out the eth.
>
>
> Mr. Harper was here the past two days, no one asked him how to get his
> ethanol here or what the penalty is for non-compliance. I wonder if it
> was
> an option to buy ethanol laced gas if it would sell... my bet is it would
> not... Not even for cars.
>
>
> Sigtaturea
>
>
> Noel Loveys
>
> Campbellton, NL, Canada
>
> CDN AME intern, PP-Rec
>
> C-FINB, Kitfox III-A
>
> Aerocet 1100 floats
>
> noelloveys@yahoo.ca
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of dave
> Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 12:59 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: 100LL/Ethanol Myths - Facts and/or fiction?
>
>
>
>
> Deke & Mike ,
>
>
> 2 great informative posts.
>
>
> 100 LL gumming up fuel systems ? No i think that it has been used to NOT
> gum up fuel systems. I rarely get any issues with gumming of fuel systems.
>
>
> As far as 100 LL, I think it might be more consistent in the brewing of it
> than MOGAS . That being said Mogas or marina gas works for me pretty
> decent.
>
>
> And Deke >>
>
>> Also, be very careful of what you read here on the Internet.
>
>> Take all of it with a healthy dose of skepticism and do your own research
>
>> before you consider anything as gospel.
>
>
> This is why i respond with movies to show you that I put behind what i say
> with a video. As far as Ethanol gas ---- I fly 250 to 300 a year and all
> with ethanol gas or what ever the heck is at the pumps. AVGAS I think i
> burned 4 gals a few years ago cause a guy wanted to dump a gerry cans he
> had
> in his floats so I just ran it through a funnel and flew away :)
>
>
> --------
>
> Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
>
> Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
>
> http://www.cfisher.com/
>
> Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
>
> http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=198727#198727
>
>
> to browse
>
> Un/Subscription,
>
> Browse, Chat, FAQ,
>
> more:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
>
>
> Web Forums!
>
> http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
> support!
>
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
> _____
>
> Esta mensagem foi verificada pelo E-mail <http://mail.terra.com.br/>
> Protegido Terra.
> Atualizado em 15/08/2008
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: RES: 100LL/Ethanol Myths - Facts and/or fiction? |
I'll give it a try but when I studied basic chemistry they told us oil or
gas and water would not mix without an additive like ethanol in the gas. To
do the test I'll have to scare up a bottle of 100LL (no additives)
I wonder if I still have the skills to do decent titrations.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy
Daughenbaugh
Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 1:28 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: RES: 100LL/Ethanol Myths - Facts and/or
fiction?
<rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
Since when does water mix with gas???
Well Noel, Since the dawn of the ages I guess.
You can prove it to yourself. Get some good dry gas with no alcohol in it.
Add a small amount of water - start with 0.10% and mix it a few minutes
until it all dissolves. Add another 0.10% and mix. Repeat until you get a
water layer that will NOT dissolve. You will then know how much water will
dissolve in that particular gas at that temperature. The amount will vary
with different gas because gasoline varies in composition.
Let's say you find out it is 0.50% water that dissolves in the gas. You do
the math on how much water that is in a 20 gallon tank. I assure you that
that is enough to stop an engine if the fuel gets colder as you are flying
and the water separates out.
It would simply be foolish (or fuelish) to put yourself at risk doing this.
Randy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Noel Loveys
Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 8:53 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: RES: 100LL/Ethanol Myths - Facts and/or
fiction?
Since when does water mix with gas??? True, it may take time to settle out
just as when you fill a plane with 100LL directly from the pumps you should
always wait twenty minutes before checking the sumps... it can take that
long for the water to settle out.
The whole problem is water does mix with ethanol and if there is enough
water in the ethanol and the temperature drops sufficiently you can get a
phase separation.. What separates is the water and the alcohol sinks to the
bottom where it blocks your fuel pick up while perfectly useable gas floats
on top of the water just out of reach of your engine... Talk about adding
insult to injury!
If any one was going to try this I'd recommend first putting a procedure in
place. That procedure should include a reasonable waiting period after
fuelling the plane and dripping the sumps. Perhaps a 'fuel washing service
is something FBOs could offer so individual pilots wouldn't have to have
extra special tanks lying around a half dozen or so airfields. They could
distil the ethanol effluent and use it to fuel barbecues... or something...
maybe sell it back to oil companies.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy
Daughenbaugh
Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 11:50 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: RES: 100LL/Ethanol Myths - Facts and/or
fiction?
<rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
I will mention one reason to not do it. Safety.
There will be some water left in the gas phase. Just like the water phase
is contaminated with gas. You will not get it ALL out. The risk then is
that you will get further phase separation at lower temperatures (like maybe
while you are flying?). Then you run the risk of unwanted silence while up
there. All this assumes that you are really good and don't accidentally get
some of the water phase in your tank.
One way to protect against this is to add some alcohol to your fuel to keep
the water from separating out. 8-)
Randy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bjones@dmv.com
Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 6:53 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: RES: 100LL/Ethanol Myths - Facts and/or
fiction?
What are the reasons, other than inconvenience, not to buy premium auto gas
in
5 gallon containers, pouring a can full into a larger funnel bottom
container
that has a flexible clear tube and valve at the bottom, adding a gallon of
water, shake, let the alcohol and water settleout, drain off the settleout,
and
then drain the remaing straight gas back into the original 5 gallon
container.
Multiple technical folks who deal with ethanol blended gas for the big
general
aviation organizations as well as a couple of scientists who work in the
fuel
and additive business indicate that if done properly this works although the
residual gas will have 3 to 5 octane less than the original premium auto
fuel
with 10 percent ethanol.
None could officially recommend this process on behalf of their organization
because there is an obvious environmental concern regarding disposal of the
settleout, and the inevitability of a law suite against their organization
if
someone does not do it carefully and crashes.
I bet many if not most of us routinely fuel our 912s and 582s by 5 gallon
can
anyway.
If we need the higher octane found in the original premium auto gas, we can
add
a little 100LL to boost octane without worrying about lead build up in our
engines or in our engine oil from use of straight 100LL.
I know folks are doing this and some have talked about it on this web site.
So
back to the original question. Are there one or more contraindications from
a
fuel science or engine perspective? And if so what are the contraindications
and how significant are they? Any technical types care to chime in?
Thanks
Kitfox N154K & PA 39 turbo N626NR
Bjones@dmv.com
443-480-1023
Quoting Frank Miles <f.miles.tcp.833@clearwire.net>:
in my engine oil.
> <f.miles.tcp.833@clearwire.net>
>
> One sez "don't burn 100LL" another "Don't burn fuel with ethanol". Another
> "Only burn pure mogas". The truth of the matter is that in many cases we
no
> longer have a choice. It's either 100LL, ethanol laced fuel or park it!!
> There is another alternative but not likely to come about unless we get
> someone with a bigger stick than we have. Get the fuel distributors to
stock
> some high octane fuel mogas without ethanol. In most states they, the
> distributors, can do this but they WON'T because of need to put in
> additional and separate storage capacities. It's all a matter of $$ and we
> don't have the clout! Until the subsidies for ethanol expire or are
removed,
> we are screwed!
>
> Frank Miles
> Clarkston, Washington
> K-III w/ 582
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mnflyer
> Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 11:31 AM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: RES: 100LL/Ethanol Myths - Facts and/or fiction?
>
>
> Hi Joe you are right on with your post about Lead, but one thing wrong oil
> company Shell never mfg a full synthetic oil it was Mobil with their Mobil
1
> that had the problems and was sued and the Mobil aviation oil was / is
> history. Aeroshell,s 15W-50 is a para-synthetic and is an excellent oil
and
> takes care of lead very well.
> I burned 1/3 100LL in my 582 for over 200 hrs and it was running perfectly
> when I removed it at 297 hrs. I'd never run ethanol in my aircraft
engines.
>
> --------
> GB
> MNFlyer
> Flying a HKS Kitfox III
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=198755#198755
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------
This message was sent using Delmarva Online's Webmail.
http://www.delmarvaonline.com/
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: 100LL/Ethanol Myths - Facts and/or fiction? |
Noel,
You mention adding gas to the eth to make cars easier to start. As you know
the cars get harder to start as the temperature drops... At various times of
the year the temperature really plummets to the point where I used to put a
small drop of gas in my Diesel car to keep the fuel from gelling.
Old, first only-alchool cars were so. Flex cars have a little atank and a
pump to add gas directly to intake only on starts when it's cold. We don't
have snow in Brazil, so I don't know if thei're gonna add something to
prevent it from freezing in Canada.
What you described is a vehicle that is built specifically to burn
ethanol.... To be a true Flex vehicle it would have to have variable
compression ratio, multi fuel injection mapping and of course multi fuel
ignition timing.
We are not in north Mexico. Flex cars in Brazil have computerized fuel
injection and ignition time that varies while fuel composition change. The
compression ratio is higer, but not variable. If you doubt, ask GM, Ford,
Honda, Fiat, Vokswagen, Peugeot, Renault and the suppliers Magnetti Marelli
and Bosch.
The problem is when they decide to add ethanol to gas and you have all your
gas cars, as happened here 30 years ago. Then we had carburators, everybody
had to retune, and we suffered with corroded parts. I don't know what would
happen if everybody had only injected gas engines by that time, as you have
now. I think things are not good in this case. And you'll see how much time
an unprepared exhaust system lasts since you fuel with eth gas.
As I have mentioned before in your country ethanol is made from surplus In
Canada and the U.S. ethanol production displaces food production so the end
effect is increased inflation.
The countries may stop from using corn to produce ethanol and start
importing sugar cane ethanol, cheaper and less polluter than oil. Isn't oil
imported too ? Finances and enviroment will thank. But they need to change
cars before. Doesn't it make sense?
And I don't understand why North America does not explore undersea oil
resources to keep supplying god gas at good prices for its people while they
progressively and slowly change to renewable biofuels. There's much oil
under there just waiting to be caught, we all know.
Diesel engines which will work wonderfully on ethanol will only do so until
the high pressure injection pumps bite the dust. Diesel fuel lubricates the
pumps...Ethanol will tear the stuffings out of them!
Ethanol is not for diesel cycle engines. For those, the biodiesel is being
road tested and brushed up.
What is needed is a standard for the fuel, the way it is handled and the way
it is used to be safe. A little moisture in the fuel on an icing day can
cause excessive icing and on hot days may cause vapour lock. Closed,
pressurized, preferably with nitrogen, systems are the only way to go.
I agree with you. Fuels have to be standard an named, people must know and
trust it composition and government must check often the large companies and
street dealers.
I really don't know what would happen to our local gas and ethanol if we had
a colder weather but I can say that the fuel behaves quite fine in a very
hot country as ours. I don't know the solution, but I agree that you have
serious reasons to be worried.
I've been upset many times since the beginning of local alchool program
until they developed the flex. Now I'm very satisfied and I think you have a
hard way ahead, but things will be OK for you too.
I hope you can convince Chevron or BP to keep selling pure gas for all your
planes untill factories start to deliver something specifically developed
for the new fuels.
Since ethanol was proved to be a good solution in Brazil, the global car
industry began a race to build good eth cars.
I believe that aviation industries are doing the same now. Let's wait .
Espuny
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Ethanol - facts and no myths or fiction |
I agree Bob. Not sure how others are getting away with ethanol but the fuel that
started dissolving my tank was 10%. My guess is the guys using car gas without
issue have less than 1 or 2% ethanol, if any at all.
I'll stick with 100LL since ethanol free is impossible to find here in Michigan.
Kevin Cozik
Series 6-7
914 turbo
Czech floats
Lansing MI
On Sun Aug 17 13:25 , 'Bob Brennan' <matronics@bob.brennan.name> sent:
>
>
>Personally measured
>and observed facts anyway, and as little opinion as
>possible.
>
>Getting ready for my
>first flight since importing my KF2 from the UK almost 2 years ago, I decided
to
>take what knowledge I had gained from the ethanol debates and apply it, and I
am
>glad that I did. Here is what I have found so far:
>
>In the UK I used
>"regular" petrol rated at 89 octane and I never tested for ethanol, although my
>UK built plane is placarded in a number of places warning *not* to use fuel with
>any alcohol in it.
>
>I periodically
>ran-up the engine for a year and a half on US regular gas bought a year and a
>half ago. I know - stale gas, bad move, yada yada... I have already chastised
>myself on that one.
>
>I bought new
>"regular" (87 octane, Sam's Club) about a month ago and drained the system of
>the old gas. I then began noticing dark fuel and black sediment when draining
>the sump before starting the engine.
>
>Much to my chagrin I
>noticed my fuel drain tool, bought in the UK years ago, was actually a
>calibrated alcohol tester so I decided to buy and test some local fuel to find
>something acceptable to fly with. Here is what I found, on this date in
>Wrightsville &York PA:
>
>Sam's Club Regular -
>$3.44/gal - stated as 87 octane - tested as 6% ethanol
>Rutter's
>Premium- $3.85/gal - stated as 93 octane - tested as 5%
>ethanol
>Turkey Hill Premium
>- $3.75/gal - stated as92 octane - tested as 0%
>ethanol
>
>The Turkey Hill gas
>is in my plane, the rest went in my Jeep, and I will buy and test Turkey Hill
>regular for the rest of my gas-powered toys in future, hoping that also is
>ethanol free. At least for now.
>
>Now for an opinion -
>contrary to listers who said they use ethanol with no problems - I assume my
>short use of ethanol-laced regular(never flying) caused a breakdown of
>rubber fuel elements, true to warnings posted everywhere and the cause of the
>drained fuel contamination. I will carefully watch for any further contamination
>(I expect a little yet) and will then replace lines and filter(s). Note that I
>never ran the engine until all contaminants were drained
>out.
>
>As stated throughout
>- this is all "for what it's worth" - but I try to base it on experience rather
>than opinion, andcan post more test results if anyone is interested. Live
>and loin, I always say...
>
>
>Bob Brennan
>1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
>Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
>Wrightsville Pa
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Ethanol - facts and no myths or fiction |
Guys, here's a dumb question, maybe. Short of just not flying, what is wrong
with burning a mixture of 1/2 ethanol fuel and 1/2 100LL? Half as much
ethanol and half as much low lead. How much low lead would a person have to
burn to really harm an engine? I am speaking of only the two cycle engines.
Frank Miles
K-lll w/ 582
Clarkston, Washington
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of K&MCozik
Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2008 2:45 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ethanol - facts and no myths or fiction
I agree Bob. Not sure how others are getting away with ethanol but the fuel
that
started dissolving my tank was 10%. My guess is the guys using car gas
without
issue have less than 1 or 2% ethanol, if any at all.
I'll stick with 100LL since ethanol free is impossible to find here in
Michigan.
Kevin Cozik
Series 6-7
914 turbo
Czech floats
Lansing MI
On Sun Aug 17 13:25 , 'Bob Brennan' <matronics@bob.brennan.name> sent:
>
>
>Personally measured
>and observed facts anyway, and as little opinion as
>possible.
>B
>Getting ready for my
>first flight since importing my KF2 from the UK almost 2 years ago, I
decided to
>take what knowledge I had gained from the ethanol debates and apply it, and
I am
>glad that I did. Here is what I have found so far:
>B
>In the UK I used
>"regular" petrol rated at 89 octane and I never tested for ethanol,
although my
>UK built plane is placarded in a number of places warning *not* to use fuel
with
>any alcohol in it.
>B
>I periodically
>ran-up the engine for a year and a half on US regular gas bought a year and
a
>half ago. I know - stale gas, bad move, yada yada... I have already
chastised
>myself on that one.
>B
>I bought new
>"regular" (87 octane, Sam's Club) about a month ago and drained the system
of
>the old gas. I then began noticing dark fuel and black sediment when
draining
>the sump before starting the engine.
>B
>Much to my chagrin I
>noticed my fuel drain tool, bought in the UK years ago, was actually a
>calibrated alcohol tester so I decided to buy and test some local fuel to
find
>something acceptable to fly with. Here is what I found, on this date in
>Wrightsville &York PA:
>B
>Sam's Club Regular -
>$3.44/gal - stated as 87 octane - tested as 6% ethanol
>Rutter's
>PremiumB - $3.85/gal - stated as 93 octane - tested as 5%
>ethanol
>Turkey Hill Premium
>- $3.75/gal - stated asB 92 octane - tested as 0%
>ethanol
>B
>The Turkey Hill gas
>is in my plane, the rest went in my Jeep, and I will buy and test Turkey
Hill
>regular for the rest of my gas-powered toys in future, hoping that also is
>ethanol free. At least for now.
>B
>Now for an opinion -
>contrary to listers who said they use ethanol with no problems - I assume
my
>short use of ethanol-laced regularB (never flying) caused a breakdown of
>rubber fuel elements, true to warnings posted everywhere and the cause of
the
>drained fuel contamination. I will carefully watch for any further
contamination
>(I expect a little yet) and will then replace lines and filter(s). Note
that I
>never ran the engine until all contaminants were drained
>out.
>B
>As stated throughout
>- this is all "for what it's worth" - but I try to base it on experience
rather
>than opinion, andB can post more test results if anyone is interested. Live
>and loin, I always say...
>B
>B
>Bob Brennan
>1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
>Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
>Wrightsville Pa
>B
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: RES: 100LL/Ethanol Myths - Facts and/or fiction? |
Hi, Noel,
Reading to a specialized magazine I collected some additional information to
understand the differences in our realities. If I'm trying to tell you
things you do know, please, forgive-me.
1st. there are standards in USA and Europe that determines no more than 10%
eth into gas, and the disponibility of a fuel called E85 (not in every USA
state), wich contains 85% ethanol and 15% gas. For what I read, if you find
more than 10% eth into gas it's not legal.
2nd. In Brazil there are E100, 100% ethanol and some types of gasoline that
contains 25% ethanol, all of them (that's why I love AVGAS) . Can you
imagine it burning in an AMG Mercedes or BMW M6 ? It's a crime!
3rd. Alchool in USA and Europe are non-hidrated, but in Brazil it contains
7% water that remains inside it in the distillery (then,I love AVGAS even
more). If you want to test ethanol, just use a densimeter like these we have
installed in every service pump here, and may also be present on yours E85.
4th. ohmimeters that were used inside tanks since 1990 inside USA to
determine fuel composition were slow and not precise and were substituted by
a sensor of changes in the tank volume followed by the processing of
information caught by "lambda sonda" (I don't know how to write it in
English!) everytime you turn the engine on. This is the way we do it here,
too .
5th. USA and Canada have millions of flex cars built THE SAME WAY THEY'RE
HERE, but some owners ignore it and refuse to fuel with E85 . If you or a
friend of yours have one of these, it'll have a little plastic gas tank with
electric pump, like a windshield washer , under the hood, for cold starts.
In this case, ask the factory if it's really flex, try some E85 and tell me
what did you feel.
We have some different fuel disponibilities, but still the same problem :
how to fuel our planes. Rotax still didn't answer my questions, maybe
they'll never do it, and I refuse to buy another plane while still not
knowing how will it be fed in my country. So I'll keep trusting Continental,
Lycoming and Superior solutions with AVGAS. No Rotax or Jabiru for me.
Espuny
Message 18
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| Subject: | Ethanol - facts and no myths or fiction |
I think you have to ask an specialist because there can be different
chemicals added to each fuel that may not be blended into a single one.
Formulating fuels is a very complex job.
Espuny
-----Mensagem original-----
De: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] Em nome de Frank Miles
Enviada em: domingo, 17 de agosto de 2008 19:08
Para: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Assunto: RE: Kitfox-List: Ethanol - facts and no myths or fiction
<f.miles.tcp.833@clearwire.net>
Guys, here's a dumb question, maybe. Short of just not flying, what is wrong
with burning a mixture of 1/2 ethanol fuel and 1/2 100LL? Half as much
ethanol and half as much low lead. How much low lead would a person have to
burn to really harm an engine? I am speaking of only the two cycle engines.
Frank Miles
K-lll w/ 582
Clarkston, Washington
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Lacquer thinners and wheel pants |
Thanks Larry - but I managed to track some down under the heading
"Versatile lacquer Thinners"
I fitted my pants on the weekend and will be hopefully final coating
during the week.
Regards to all and thanks for the info
Gary
Gary Algate
Classic 4 Jab 2200
Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the addressees.
Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message by
persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If
you have received this e-mail in error, kindly notify us immediately by
telephone or e-mail and delete the message from your system. The sender
does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of
this message which may arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.
"Larry Huntley" <asq@roadrunner.com>
Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
15/08/2008 07:39 PM
Please respond to
kitfox-list@matronics.com
To
<kitfox-list@matronics.com>
cc
Subject
Re: Kitfox-List: Lacquer thinners
Sorry Gary.Didn't catch that. Maybe I could take the formulation off the
can and post it. Laquer thinner is a combination of an assortment of
thinners that might be available to you. Would that help? Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: gary.algate@sandvik.com
Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 9:48 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Lacquer thinners
Larry - are you in Australia Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: RES: 100LL/Ethanol Myths - Facts and/or fiction? |
Espuny,
"Disponsibilty" your definition of the word? I did a search and came up
with;
>> > We are searching for a high disponibility and open source solution
>> > for web hosting
>>
>> I've never encountered the term "disponibility" before/ Google turns
>> up references to it, but primarily in English texts written by
>> non-English writers.
>
> I guessed disponible was the French word for available, and answered
> accordingly;-)
OK, but the *English* word "disponibility" means something closer to
"flexibility" than to "availability". (Check OED.) I think we have a
false cognate/borrowing here...
Frank
Clarkston, Washington, USA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Francisco
Espuny
Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2008 3:30 PM
Subject: RES: Kitfox-List: Re: RES: 100LL/Ethanol Myths - Facts and/or
fiction?
Hi, Noel,
Reading to a specialized magazine I collected some additional information to
understand the differences in our realities. If I'm trying to tell you
things you do know, please, forgive-me.
1st. there are standards in USA and Europe that determines no more than 10%
eth into gas, and the disponibility of a fuel called E85 (not in every USA
state), wich contains 85% ethanol and 15% gas. For what I read, if you find
more than 10% eth into gas it's not legal.
2nd. In Brazil there are E100, 100% ethanol and some types of gasoline that
contains 25% ethanol, all of them (that's why I love AVGAS) . Can you
imagine it burning in an AMG Mercedes or BMW M6 ? It's a crime!
3rd. Alchool in USA and Europe are non-hidrated, but in Brazil it contains
7% water that remains inside it in the distillery (then,I love AVGAS even
more). If you want to test ethanol, just use a densimeter like these we have
installed in every service pump here, and may also be present on yours E85.
4th. ohmimeters that were used inside tanks since 1990 inside USA to
determine fuel composition were slow and not precise and were substituted by
a sensor of changes in the tank volume followed by the processing of
information caught by "lambda sonda" (I don't know how to write it in
English!) everytime you turn the engine on. This is the way we do it here,
too .
5th. USA and Canada have millions of flex cars built THE SAME WAY THEY'RE
HERE, but some owners ignore it and refuse to fuel with E85 . If you or a
friend of yours have one of these, it'll have a little plastic gas tank with
electric pump, like a windshield washer , under the hood, for cold starts.
In this case, ask the factory if it's really flex, try some E85 and tell me
what did you feel.
We have some different fuel disponibilities, but still the same problem :
how to fuel our planes. Rotax still didn't answer my questions, maybe
they'll never do it, and I refuse to buy another plane while still not
knowing how will it be fed in my country. So I'll keep trusting Continental,
Lycoming and Superior solutions with AVGAS. No Rotax or Jabiru for me.
Espuny
Message 21
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|
| Subject: | Re: Model 4 gear |
Try Brian Morrisette (Sudbury, Canada) he is finishing a Speedster and has
purchased the Grove gear. (Brian monitors the list)
Regards
Gary
Gary Algate
Classic 4 / Jab2200
Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the addressees.
Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message by
persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If
you have received this e-mail in error, kindly notify us immediately by
telephone or e-mail and delete the message from your system. The sender
does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of
this message which may arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.
"Larry Huntley" <asq@roadrunner.com>
Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
17/08/2008 10:40 AM
Please respond to
kitfox-list@matronics.com
To
<kitfox-list@matronics.com>
cc
Subject
Kitfox-List: Model 4 gear
Does anyone have a set of model 4 main gear they would sell? Hoping
someone changed out to Grove gear and has some leftovers. Larry
Larry Huntley 4-1200 Soob
asq@roadrunner.com
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Lacquer thinners |
Gary Algate
Sandvik Mining and Construction Australia
Exploration
+61 8 8276 7655
18/08/2008 08:37 AM
To
kitfox-list@matronics.com
cc
Subject
Re: Kitfox-List: Lacquer thinners
Thanks Lynn
I have never used the Polyfiber enamel - does it have a low gloss like the
Polytone? - As I have only under-coated so far I have time to get some
enamel.
I don't want to end up with high gloss wheel pants.
At the moment they are fitted and I went for a brief flight yesterday
(including some long grass taxiing) and all appeared OK.
One thing I did notice is that it's now quite difficult to get into the
plane so I am considering a step mounted to the gear leg.
What did you do with yours?
Regards
Gary
Gary Algate
]
This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the addressees.
Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message by
persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If
you have received this e-mail in error, kindly notify us immediately by
telephone or e-mail and delete the message from your system. The sender
does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of
this message which may arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.
Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
15/08/2008 11:43 PM
Please respond to
kitfox-list@matronics.com
To
kitfox-list@matronics.com
cc
Subject
Re: Kitfox-List: Lacquer thinners
That's exactly what I was told to do and did, when it came time to
spray my flaperon hinge brackets. I knew that they would eventually
be attached to the wing and then shot with Polytone, so I did the
Polybrush "tacky", then shot with Polyspray and eventually Polytone.
However, reading (sometimes my worst enemy) the literature, I chose
to shoot larger metal and fiberglas parts with Polyfiber Enamel.
I was wondering what Wayne had to say...thanks for keeping up with it.
One small thought about getting the gallon of Polytone reducer...if
you have the left-over sitting on your shelf, you'll probably never
need to use it, but if you don't have any sitting around....look out
for small accidents, hangar rash, etc...it's a take-off on Murphy's
Law. : )
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200
Status: "Condition grounded, but determined to try." (Pink
Floyd..."Learning to Fly")
On Aug 14, 2008, at 10:06 PM, gary.algate@sandvik.com wrote:
>
> Lynn - you are dead right it is for the wheel pants. I have had
> pretty good success in the past with polytone on Fibreglass (even
> though it's not really recommended). I think the biggest problem is
> the bond and in the past I have applied a light primer coat and
> while it's still "just" tacky I applied the Polytone.
>
> Best regards
>
> Gary
>
> By the way -no response yet from Wayne re your questions - He is
> travelling at the moment but he will get back to me.
>
> Regards
>
> Gary
>
> Gary Algate
> Classic 4 Jab 2200A
> Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
>
>
> This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the
> addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of
> this message by persons or entities other than the intended
> recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
> kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the
> message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for
> any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may
> arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.
>
>
> Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
> Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> 15/08/2008 11:22 AM
> Please respond to
> kitfox-list@matronics.com
>
> To
> kitfox-list@matronics.com
> cc
> Subject
> Re: Kitfox-List: Lacquer thinners
>
>
>
> You can get "lacquer thinner" at most hardware stores, but like the
> one poster said make sure of what it is (or something like that). I
> don't know what that means except to be sure you read the label. I
> figured that lacquer thinner was lacquer thinner, but maybe they are
> not all created equally. Sorry I can't be more helpful, Gary. Maybe
> you should just bite the bullet and get that one gallon that Aviaquip
> offered. As far as my own experience is concerned, the stuff lasts
> for a long time in the tightly-sealed can, so it won't go to waste.
> The Polytone reducer is formulated for application in either cooler
> or warmer temperatures, and comes in different part numbers depending
> on the temperature of the air when it is applied.
>
> A question: are you using the Polytone to paint your wheels pants? Is
> that why you're looking for Polytone reducer? If so, that's the wrong
> stuff to use on hard surfaces, I was told. I was just putting 2 and 2
> together, and thought you might be painting your wheel pants...if
> not, I'll keep quiet. : )
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster
> Jabiru 2200
> Status: "Condition grounded, but determined to try." (Pink
> Floyd..."Learning to Fly")
> do not archive
>
>
> On Aug 14, 2008, at 8:39 PM, gary.algate@sandvik.com wrote:
>
> >
> > can somebody give me an explanation of what "lacquer thinners" are
> > - I know if I ask the guy at the auto shop here he probably won't
> > know what I mean and I know most of you guys in the USC will be
> > shutting down soon .
> >
> > I am assuming it is the thinners for auto paint (not enamel or
> > Urethane) ??
> >
> > Friday here so I want to get it for the weekend.
> >
> > regards
> >
> > Gary
> >
> >
> >
> > Gary Algate
> > Classic 4 Jab2200A
> > Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
> >
> >
> > This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the
> > addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of
> > this message by persons or entities other than the intended
> > recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
> > kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the
> > message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for
> > any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may
> > arise as a result of the e-mail transmission. _-
> > www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List _-
> > www.matronics.com/contribution _-
> > ===========================================================
>
>
> -
> -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
> www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List _-
> www.matronics.com/contribution _-
> ===========================================================
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: RES: 100LL/Ethanol Myths - Facts and/or fiction? |
I'd better have written "availability" , I'm sorry.
You know we talk Portuguese here, and that was really a false cognate.
My English is not as good as I hope it will be someday. If you search my
texts will find a lot of mistakes, but I wish you understand it.
Thanks for correcting me.
-----Mensagem original-----
De: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] Em nome de Frank Miles
Enviada em: domingo, 17 de agosto de 2008 20:10
Para: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Assunto: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: RES: 100LL/Ethanol Myths - Facts and/or
fiction?
<f.miles.tcp.833@clearwire.net>
Espuny,
"Disponsibilty" your definition of the word? I did a search and came up
with;
>> > We are searching for a high disponibility and open source solution
>> > for web hosting
>>
>> I've never encountered the term "disponibility" before/ Google turns
>> up references to it, but primarily in English texts written by
>> non-English writers.
>
> I guessed disponible was the French word for available, and answered
> accordingly;-)
OK, but the *English* word "disponibility" means something closer to
"flexibility" than to "availability". (Check OED.) I think we have a
false cognate/borrowing here...
Frank
Clarkston, Washington, USA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Francisco
Espuny
Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2008 3:30 PM
Subject: RES: Kitfox-List: Re: RES: 100LL/Ethanol Myths - Facts and/or
fiction?
Hi, Noel,
Reading to a specialized magazine I collected some additional information to
understand the differences in our realities. If I'm trying to tell you
things you do know, please, forgive-me.
1st. there are standards in USA and Europe that determines no more than 10%
eth into gas, and the disponibility of a fuel called E85 (not in every USA
state), wich contains 85% ethanol and 15% gas. For what I read, if you find
more than 10% eth into gas it's not legal.
2nd. In Brazil there are E100, 100% ethanol and some types of gasoline that
contains 25% ethanol, all of them (that's why I love AVGAS) . Can you
imagine it burning in an AMG Mercedes or BMW M6 ? It's a crime!
3rd. Alchool in USA and Europe are non-hidrated, but in Brazil it contains
7% water that remains inside it in the distillery (then,I love AVGAS even
more). If you want to test ethanol, just use a densimeter like these we have
installed in every service pump here, and may also be present on yours E85.
4th. ohmimeters that were used inside tanks since 1990 inside USA to
determine fuel composition were slow and not precise and were substituted by
a sensor of changes in the tank volume followed by the processing of
information caught by "lambda sonda" (I don't know how to write it in
English!) everytime you turn the engine on. This is the way we do it here,
too .
5th. USA and Canada have millions of flex cars built THE SAME WAY THEY'RE
HERE, but some owners ignore it and refuse to fuel with E85 . If you or a
friend of yours have one of these, it'll have a little plastic gas tank with
electric pump, like a windshield washer , under the hood, for cold starts.
In this case, ask the factory if it's really flex, try some E85 and tell me
what did you feel.
We have some different fuel disponibilities, but still the same problem :
how to fuel our planes. Rotax still didn't answer my questions, maybe
they'll never do it, and I refuse to buy another plane while still not
knowing how will it be fed in my country. So I'll keep trusting Continental,
Lycoming and Superior solutions with AVGAS. No Rotax or Jabiru for me.
Espuny
Esta mensagem foi verificada pelo E-mail Protegido Terra.
Atualizado em 16/08/2008
Message 24
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| Subject: | Ethanol - facts and no myths or fiction |
Only 6% ethanol over a few weeks has apparently played havoc with my fuel
system = very dark fuel and black specs in the sump. I would assume 3% or 2%
or even 1% would do the same, just over a longer time.
My current plan of attack is to find out where the "black" was coming from,
and that it stops while using 0% ethanol 93 octane fuel (it definitely
started with the first tankful with ethanol). I assume rubber, there are a
few rubber hoses in the fuel path. Then I need to find a substitute hosing
to replace what is damaged, something that will not fall apart in the
presence of ethanol: which may be inevitable as ethanol-free gets harder to
find.
In other words I don't think blending is the answer - for me, right now, the
answer is testing each purchase and researching how to be ethanol-safe,
which my 1991 Rotax + fuel system obviously is not.
Bob Brennan
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frank Miles
Sent: 17 August 2008 6:08 pm
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Ethanol - facts and no myths or fiction
<f.miles.tcp.833@clearwire.net>
Guys, here's a dumb question, maybe. Short of just not flying, what is wrong
with burning a mixture of 1/2 ethanol fuel and 1/2 100LL? Half as much
ethanol and half as much low lead. How much low lead would a person have to
burn to really harm an engine? I am speaking of only the two cycle engines.
Frank Miles
K-lll w/ 582
Clarkston, Washington
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of K&MCozik
Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2008 2:45 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ethanol - facts and no myths or fiction
I agree Bob. Not sure how others are getting away with ethanol but the fuel
that
started dissolving my tank was 10%. My guess is the guys using car gas
without
issue have less than 1 or 2% ethanol, if any at all.
I'll stick with 100LL since ethanol free is impossible to find here in
Michigan.
Kevin Cozik
Series 6-7
914 turbo
Czech floats
Lansing MI
On Sun Aug 17 13:25 , 'Bob Brennan' <matronics@bob.brennan.name> sent:
>
>
>Personally measured
>and observed facts anyway, and as little opinion as
>possible.
>B
>Getting ready for my
>first flight since importing my KF2 from the UK almost 2 years ago, I
decided to
>take what knowledge I had gained from the ethanol debates and apply it, and
I am
>glad that I did. Here is what I have found so far:
>B
>In the UK I used
>"regular" petrol rated at 89 octane and I never tested for ethanol,
although my
>UK built plane is placarded in a number of places warning *not* to use fuel
with
>any alcohol in it.
>B
>I periodically
>ran-up the engine for a year and a half on US regular gas bought a year and
a
>half ago. I know - stale gas, bad move, yada yada... I have already
chastised
>myself on that one.
>B
>I bought new
>"regular" (87 octane, Sam's Club) about a month ago and drained the system
of
>the old gas. I then began noticing dark fuel and black sediment when
draining
>the sump before starting the engine.
>B
>Much to my chagrin I
>noticed my fuel drain tool, bought in the UK years ago, was actually a
>calibrated alcohol tester so I decided to buy and test some local fuel to
find
>something acceptable to fly with. Here is what I found, on this date in
>Wrightsville &York PA:
>B
>Sam's Club Regular -
>$3.44/gal - stated as 87 octane - tested as 6% ethanol
>Rutter's
>PremiumB - $3.85/gal - stated as 93 octane - tested as 5%
>ethanol
>Turkey Hill Premium
>- $3.75/gal - stated asB 92 octane - tested as 0%
>ethanol
>B
>The Turkey Hill gas
>is in my plane, the rest went in my Jeep, and I will buy and test Turkey
Hill
>regular for the rest of my gas-powered toys in future, hoping that also is
>ethanol free. At least for now.
>B
>Now for an opinion -
>contrary to listers who said they use ethanol with no problems - I assume
my
>short use of ethanol-laced regularB (never flying) caused a breakdown of
>rubber fuel elements, true to warnings posted everywhere and the cause of
the
>drained fuel contamination. I will carefully watch for any further
contamination
>(I expect a little yet) and will then replace lines and filter(s). Note
that I
>never ran the engine until all contaminants were drained
>out.
>B
>As stated throughout
>- this is all "for what it's worth" - but I try to base it on experience
rather
>than opinion, andB can post more test results if anyone is interested. Live
>and loin, I always say...
>B
>B
>Bob Brennan
>1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
>Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
>Wrightsville Pa
>B
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: 2 stroke oil - Pennzoil update |
I'll try.
The ball bearings and needle bearings used can rust pretty fast if not
always coated with enough protective lubricant. Since the these bearings
are lubed with a oil mixed within the gas mist in the crankcase it is
critical that the oil to gas mixture be correct when the engine is
running. Inadequate lubricant is never a good thing in an engine and the
needles and balls in these bearings are not plated against corrosion
(plating is not reliable). A tiny amount of rust will destroy the
bearings in a short time if for instance the engine has been stored over
the winter improperly. These are the types of warnings I've read and
been told about, but I've had old 2 stroke motorcycles that had been
sitting outside for years and and got them running again with nothing
more than cleaning the fuel system and they never destroyed their crank
brearings so who knows. Of course My flight time and altitude on a bike
is very limited.
Premixed fuel with synthetic oils may not stay dispersed in fuel if the
fuel mix sits for several days. You then risk the possible problem of
inadequate lubricant in the fuel mist if you don't shake the fuel mix
adequately before flight.
Any corrections?
--
Rex Hefferan
SE Colorado / K-II / 582-C / still waiting repairs
mscotter@comcast.net wrote:
>
>Forgive the basic question here, but I am just not that
>Familiar with aircraft 2-strokes. What exactly is it that happens to crankshafts?
Is it just corrosion?
>-Mark Scott
>------Original Message------
>From: dave
>Sender: Kitfox list
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>ReplyTo: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Sent: Aug 15, 2008 5:48 AM
>Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: 2 stroke oil - Pennzoil update
>
>
>Rex, Good update on oils. I will tell you that I use Bombardier oil XPS mineral
oil that you can buy in bulk or containers from any Ski Doo and Sea Doo shop.
IT is API -TC rated and works excellent. I just changed to a new 582 as
my last one had 500 hours on it and never was apart yet. I took a few pics of
the piston and it looks great if you want to see let me know .
>
>I am planning on changing over to Shell Advance oil which is API-TC rated as well
as most of my local guys already have. I have used this in other planes
for over 25 years now along with Castrol Super 2 stroke oil which again is API-TC
rated. Pennzoil is hard to get in Canada. My Rotaxes have worked flawless
and I contribute alot of that to the use of these oils.
>
>Stay away from oils not rated API-TC -- eg - TCW3 ( outboard oil)
>and stay away from synthetic oils.blends unless you are running them 3 or more
times per week. - EVERY WEEK !! I do sell cranks but I rather see the right
oil used and your crank last longer.
>
>
>Dave
>
>--------
>Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
>Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
>http://www.cfisher.com/
>Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
>http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: RES: 100LL/Ethanol Myths - Facts and/or fiction? |
Espuny,
I was not being critical. I like to learn new words but could not find that
in our dictionary. My wife and I always have one handy. I think that you do
very well with English and I appreciate your contribution to the site. Keep
it up. Do you informally use your last name?
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Francisco
Espuny
Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2008 5:10 PM
Subject: RES: Kitfox-List: Re: RES: 100LL/Ethanol Myths - Facts and/or
fiction?
I'd better have written "availability" , I'm sorry.
You know we talk Portuguese here, and that was really a false cognate.
My English is not as good as I hope it will be someday. If you search my
texts will find a lot of mistakes, but I wish you understand it.
Thanks for correcting me.
-----Mensagem original-----
De: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] Em nome de Frank Miles
Enviada em: domingo, 17 de agosto de 2008 20:10
Para: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Assunto: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: RES: 100LL/Ethanol Myths - Facts and/or
fiction?
<f.miles.tcp.833@clearwire.net>
Espuny,
"Disponsibilty" your definition of the word? I did a search and came up
with;
>> > We are searching for a high disponibility and open source solution
>> > for web hosting
>>
>> I've never encountered the term "disponibility" before/ Google turns
>> up references to it, but primarily in English texts written by
>> non-English writers.
>
> I guessed disponible was the French word for available, and answered
> accordingly;-)
OK, but the *English* word "disponibility" means something closer to
"flexibility" than to "availability". (Check OED.) I think we have a
false cognate/borrowing here...
Frank
Clarkston, Washington, USA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Francisco
Espuny
Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2008 3:30 PM
Subject: RES: Kitfox-List: Re: RES: 100LL/Ethanol Myths - Facts and/or
fiction?
Hi, Noel,
Reading to a specialized magazine I collected some additional information to
understand the differences in our realities. If I'm trying to tell you
things you do know, please, forgive-me.
1st. there are standards in USA and Europe that determines no more than 10%
eth into gas, and the disponibility of a fuel called E85 (not in every USA
state), wich contains 85% ethanol and 15% gas. For what I read, if you find
more than 10% eth into gas it's not legal.
2nd. In Brazil there are E100, 100% ethanol and some types of gasoline that
contains 25% ethanol, all of them (that's why I love AVGAS) . Can you
imagine it burning in an AMG Mercedes or BMW M6 ? It's a crime!
3rd. Alchool in USA and Europe are non-hidrated, but in Brazil it contains
7% water that remains inside it in the distillery (then,I love AVGAS even
more). If you want to test ethanol, just use a densimeter like these we have
installed in every service pump here, and may also be present on yours E85.
4th. ohmimeters that were used inside tanks since 1990 inside USA to
determine fuel composition were slow and not precise and were substituted by
a sensor of changes in the tank volume followed by the processing of
information caught by "lambda sonda" (I don't know how to write it in
English!) everytime you turn the engine on. This is the way we do it here,
too .
5th. USA and Canada have millions of flex cars built THE SAME WAY THEY'RE
HERE, but some owners ignore it and refuse to fuel with E85 . If you or a
friend of yours have one of these, it'll have a little plastic gas tank with
electric pump, like a windshield washer , under the hood, for cold starts.
In this case, ask the factory if it's really flex, try some E85 and tell me
what did you feel.
We have some different fuel disponibilities, but still the same problem :
how to fuel our planes. Rotax still didn't answer my questions, maybe
they'll never do it, and I refuse to buy another plane while still not
knowing how will it be fed in my country. So I'll keep trusting Continental,
Lycoming and Superior solutions with AVGAS. No Rotax or Jabiru for me.
Espuny
Esta mensagem foi verificada pelo E-mail Protegido Terra.
Atualizado em 16/08/2008
Message 27
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I currently have 940 hrs on my classic 4. I want to start a post listing
the number of hours people have on their foxes. I'm not the builder of my
plane but love it like I did... How many hours can I expect out of her before
a
major overhaul?
Steve Bennett Classic 4-1200 912 (220hrs)
**************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget?
Read reviews on AOL Autos.
(http://autos.aol.com/cars-Volkswagen-Jetta-2009/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00030000000007 )
Message 28
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Be thankful it's not a 2-stroke....
Airframe time on my KF2 is 883 hours, 295 hours on my 582 which was rebuilt
after 588 original hours.
Bob Brennan
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Sbennett3@aol.com
Sent: 17 August 2008 8:52 pm
Subject: Kitfox-List: hobbs times
I currently have 940 hrs on my classic 4. I want to start a post listing
the number of hours people have on their foxes. I'm not the builder of my
plane but love it like I did... How many hours can I expect out of her
before a major overhaul?
Steve Bennett Classic 4-1200 912 (220hrs)
_____
Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews
on AOL Autos
<http://autos.aol.com/cars-Volkswagen-Jetta-2009/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00
030000000007> .
Message 29
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|
| Subject: | Re: Lacquer thinners |
You'll have to add Polyfiber's Flattener, which according to their
rep is merely baby powder...or is it talcum powder?....in a fluid. I
got the real stuff rather than experiment, but then I'm closer to the
source than you. Want me to get some and send it to your Ontario office?
I didn't do anything...oh, wait, you've got the tube and bungee gear,
which is taller than the Grove. Short guys like me NEED the Grove
gear to facilitate egress and degress (or whatever gettin' in and
gettin' out means in big words).
Lucky you, I just happen to have part #63900.000...Landing gear
step...in my hot little hands. They are nothing more than a 1/8"
aluminum angle, 1 1/2" wide on both flanges, and 7" long, bent to a
76.5 (or so) angle, instead of the normal 90. These would be easy
for you to make over there, but they're yours for the asking. If
you've got some way to get them from your Canadian address to
Aussieland, I'll send them along. I could even include a splash of
the flattener...not much of the stuff is needed. Let me know, maybe
by direct email?
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200
Status: "Condition grounded, but determined to try." (Pink
Floyd..."Learning to Fly")
do not archive
On Aug 17, 2008, at 7:33 PM, gary.algate@sandvik.com wrote:
>
>
> Gary Algate
> Sandvik Mining and Construction Australia
> Exploration
> +61 8 8276 7655
> 18/08/2008 08:37 AM
> To
> kitfox-list@matronics.com
> cc
> Subject
> Re: Kitfox-List: Lacquer thinnersLink
>
>
> Thanks Lynn
>
> I have never used the Polyfiber enamel - does it have a low gloss
> like the Polytone? - As I have only under-coated so far I have time
> to get some enamel.
>
> I don't want to end up with high gloss wheel pants.
>
> At the moment they are fitted and I went for a brief flight
> yesterday (including some long grass taxiing) and all appeared OK.
>
> One thing I did notice is that it's now quite difficult to get into
> the plane so I am considering a step mounted to the gear leg.
>
> What did you do with yours?
>
> Regards
>
> Gary
>
> Gary Algate
> ]
>
>
> This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the
> addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of
> this message by persons or entities other than the intended
> recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
> kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the
> message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for
> any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may
> arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.
>
>
> Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
> Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> 15/08/2008 11:43 PM
> Please respond to
> kitfox-list@matronics.com
>
> To
> kitfox-list@matronics.com
> cc
> Subject
> Re: Kitfox-List: Lacquer thinners
>
>
>
> That's exactly what I was told to do and did, when it came time to
> spray my flaperon hinge brackets. I knew that they would eventually
> be attached to the wing and then shot with Polytone, so I did the
> Polybrush "tacky", then shot with Polyspray and eventually Polytone.
> However, reading (sometimes my worst enemy) the literature, I chose
> to shoot larger metal and fiberglas parts with Polyfiber Enamel.
>
> I was wondering what Wayne had to say...thanks for keeping up with it.
>
> One small thought about getting the gallon of Polytone reducer...if
> you have the left-over sitting on your shelf, you'll probably never
> need to use it, but if you don't have any sitting around....look out
> for small accidents, hangar rash, etc...it's a take-off on Murphy's
> Law. : )
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster
> Jabiru 2200
> Status: "Condition grounded, but determined to try." (Pink
> Floyd..."Learning to Fly")
>
>
> On Aug 14, 2008, at 10:06 PM, gary.algate@sandvik.com wrote:
>
> >
> > Lynn - you are dead right it is for the wheel pants. I have had
> > pretty good success in the past with polytone on Fibreglass (even
> > though it's not really recommended). I think the biggest problem is
> > the bond and in the past I have applied a light primer coat and
> > while it's still "just" tacky I applied the Polytone.
> >
> > Best regards
> >
> > Gary
> >
> > By the way -no response yet from Wayne re your questions - He is
> > travelling at the moment but he will get back to me.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Gary
> >
> > Gary Algate
> > Classic 4 Jab 2200A
> > Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
> >
> >
> > This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the
> > addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of
> > this message by persons or entities other than the intended
> > recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
> > kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the
> > message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for
> > any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may
> > arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
> > Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> > 15/08/2008 11:22 AM
> > Please respond to
> > kitfox-list@matronics.com
> >
> > To
> > kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > cc
> > Subject
> > Re: Kitfox-List: Lacquer thinners
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > You can get "lacquer thinner" at most hardware stores, but like the
> > one poster said make sure of what it is (or something like that). I
> > don't know what that means except to be sure you read the label. I
> > figured that lacquer thinner was lacquer thinner, but maybe they are
> > not all created equally. Sorry I can't be more helpful, Gary. Maybe
> > you should just bite the bullet and get that one gallon that
> Aviaquip
> > offered. As far as my own experience is concerned, the stuff lasts
> > for a long time in the tightly-sealed can, so it won't go to waste.
> > The Polytone reducer is formulated for application in either cooler
> > or warmer temperatures, and comes in different part numbers
> depending
> > on the temperature of the air when it is applied.
> >
> > A question: are you using the Polytone to paint your wheels
> pants? Is
> > that why you're looking for Polytone reducer? If so, that's the
> wrong
> > stuff to use on hard surfaces, I was told. I was just putting 2
> and 2
> > together, and thought you might be painting your wheel pants...if
> > not, I'll keep quiet. : )
> >
> > Lynn Matteson
> > Kitfox IV Speedster
> > Jabiru 2200
> > Status: "Condition grounded, but determined to try." (Pink
> > Floyd..."Learning to Fly")
> > do not archive
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Aug 14, 2008, at 8:39 PM, gary.algate@sandvik.com wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > can somebody give me an explanation of what "lacquer thinners" are
> > > - I know if I ask the guy at the auto shop here he probably won't
> > > know what I mean and I know most of you guys in the USC will be
> > > shutting down soon .
> > >
> > > I am assuming it is the thinners for auto paint (not enamel or
> > > Urethane) ??
> > >
> > > Friday here so I want to get it for the weekend.
> > >
> > > regards
> > >
> > > Gary
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Gary Algate
> > > Classic 4 Jab2200A
> > > Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
> > >
> > >
> > > This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the
> > > addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of
> > > this message by persons or entities other than the intended
> > > recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in
> error,
> > > kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the
> > > message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for
> > > any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may
> > > arise as a result of the e-mail transmission. _-
> > > www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List _-
> > > www.matronics.com/contribution _-
> > > ===========================================================
> >
> >
> > -
> > -
> > -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List _-
> > www.matronics.com/contribution _-
> > ===========================================================
>
>
> -
> -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
> <Wheel Pants 002.jpg>
Message 30
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|
| Subject: | Re: RES: 100LL/Ethanol Myths - Facts and/or fiction? |
Yes, Frank. You can call me Francisco or Espuny. My nearest friends usually
refers to me using my last name to avoid mistakes, because there are many
"Franciscoe" here while there are only seven male "Espuny" in the hole
Country (7/180.000.000).
Your observation was OK. It was a favor.
Espuny
-----Mensagem original-----
De: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] Em nome de Frank Miles
Enviada em: domingo, 17 de agosto de 2008 21:34
Para: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Assunto: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: RES: 100LL/Ethanol Myths - Facts and/or
fiction?
<f.miles.tcp.833@clearwire.net>
Espuny,
I was not being critical. I like to learn new words but could not find that
in our dictionary. My wife and I always have one handy. I think that you do
very well with English and I appreciate your contribution to the site. Keep
it up. Do you informally use your last name?
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Francisco
Espuny
Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2008 5:10 PM
Subject: RES: Kitfox-List: Re: RES: 100LL/Ethanol Myths - Facts and/or
fiction?
I'd better have written "availability" , I'm sorry.
You know we talk Portuguese here, and that was really a false cognate.
My English is not as good as I hope it will be someday. If you search my
texts will find a lot of mistakes, but I wish you understand it.
Thanks for correcting me.
-----Mensagem original-----
De: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] Em nome de Frank Miles
Enviada em: domingo, 17 de agosto de 2008 20:10
Para: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Assunto: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: RES: 100LL/Ethanol Myths - Facts and/or
fiction?
<f.miles.tcp.833@clearwire.net>
Espuny,
"Disponsibilty" your definition of the word? I did a search and came up
with;
>> > We are searching for a high disponibility and open source solution
>> > for web hosting
>>
>> I've never encountered the term "disponibility" before/ Google turns
>> up references to it, but primarily in English texts written by
>> non-English writers.
>
> I guessed disponible was the French word for available, and answered
> accordingly;-)
OK, but the *English* word "disponibility" means something closer to
"flexibility" than to "availability". (Check OED.) I think we have a
false cognate/borrowing here...
Frank
Clarkston, Washington, USA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Francisco
Espuny
Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2008 3:30 PM
Subject: RES: Kitfox-List: Re: RES: 100LL/Ethanol Myths - Facts and/or
fiction?
Hi, Noel,
Reading to a specialized magazine I collected some additional information to
understand the differences in our realities. If I'm trying to tell you
things you do know, please, forgive-me.
1st. there are standards in USA and Europe that determines no more than 10%
eth into gas, and the disponibility of a fuel called E85 (not in every USA
state), wich contains 85% ethanol and 15% gas. For what I read, if you find
more than 10% eth into gas it's not legal.
2nd. In Brazil there are E100, 100% ethanol and some types of gasoline that
contains 25% ethanol, all of them (that's why I love AVGAS) . Can you
imagine it burning in an AMG Mercedes or BMW M6 ? It's a crime!
3rd. Alchool in USA and Europe are non-hidrated, but in Brazil it contains
7% water that remains inside it in the distillery (then,I love AVGAS even
more). If you want to test ethanol, just use a densimeter like these we have
installed in every service pump here, and may also be present on yours E85.
4th. ohmimeters that were used inside tanks since 1990 inside USA to
determine fuel composition were slow and not precise and were substituted by
a sensor of changes in the tank volume followed by the processing of
information caught by "lambda sonda" (I don't know how to write it in
English!) everytime you turn the engine on. This is the way we do it here,
too .
5th. USA and Canada have millions of flex cars built THE SAME WAY THEY'RE
HERE, but some owners ignore it and refuse to fuel with E85 . If you or a
friend of yours have one of these, it'll have a little plastic gas tank with
electric pump, like a windshield washer , under the hood, for cold starts.
In this case, ask the factory if it's really flex, try some E85 and tell me
what did you feel.
We have some different fuel disponibilities, but still the same problem :
how to fuel our planes. Rotax still didn't answer my questions, maybe
they'll never do it, and I refuse to buy another plane while still not
knowing how will it be fed in my country. So I'll keep trusting Continental,
Lycoming and Superior solutions with AVGAS. No Rotax or Jabiru for me.
Espuny
Esta mensagem foi verificada pelo E-mail Protegido Terra.
Atualizado em 16/08/2008
Esta mensagem foi verificada pelo E-mail Protegido Terra.
Atualizado em 16/08/2008
Message 31
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|
| Subject: | Re: Lacquer thinners |
Hi Lynn.
As always, thanks a lot!
I'll manufacture the steps here and save you the hassles. I'll also check
with Aviaquip here and see if they the flattening agent etc as I will have
to buy the paint from them anyway.
How are the engine repairs coming along?
best regards
Gary
Gary Algate
Classic 4 / Jab2200
Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the addressees.
Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message by
persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If
you have received this e-mail in error, kindly notify us immediately by
telephone or e-mail and delete the message from your system. The sender
does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of
this message which may arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.
Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
18/08/2008 11:32 AM
Please respond to
kitfox-list@matronics.com
To
kitfox-list@matronics.com
cc
Subject
Re: Kitfox-List: Lacquer thinners
You'll have to add Polyfiber's Flattener, which according to their
rep is merely baby powder...or is it talcum powder?....in a fluid. I
got the real stuff rather than experiment, but then I'm closer to the
source than you. Want me to get some and send it to your Ontario office?
I didn't do anything...oh, wait, you've got the tube and bungee gear,
which is taller than the Grove. Short guys like me NEED the Grove
gear to facilitate egress and degress (or whatever gettin' in and
gettin' out means in big words).
Lucky you, I just happen to have part #63900.000...Landing gear
step...in my hot little hands. They are nothing more than a 1/8"
aluminum angle, 1 1/2" wide on both flanges, and 7" long, bent to a
76.5=B0 (or so) angle, instead of the normal 90=B0. These would be easy
for you to make over there, but they're yours for the asking. If
you've got some way to get them from your Canadian address to
Aussieland, I'll send them along. I could even include a splash of
the flattener...not much of the stuff is needed. Let me know, maybe
by direct email?
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200
Status: "Condition grounded, but determined to try." (Pink
Floyd..."Learning to Fly")
do not archive
On Aug 17, 2008, at 7:33 PM, gary.algate@sandvik.com wrote:
>
>
> Gary Algate
> Sandvik Mining and Construction Australia
> Exploration
> +61 8 8276 7655
> 18/08/2008 08:37 AM
> To
> kitfox-list@matronics.com
> cc
> Subject
> Re: Kitfox-List: Lacquer thinnersLink
>
>
> Thanks Lynn
>
> I have never used the Polyfiber enamel - does it have a low gloss
> like the Polytone? - As I have only under-coated so far I have time
> to get some enamel.
>
> I don't want to end up with high gloss wheel pants.
>
> At the moment they are fitted and I went for a brief flight
> yesterday (including some long grass taxiing) and all appeared OK.
>
> One thing I did notice is that it's now quite difficult to get into
> the plane so I am considering a step mounted to the gear leg.
>
> What did you do with yours?
>
> Regards
>
> Gary
>
> Gary Algate
> ]
>
>
> This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the
> addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of
> this message by persons or entities other than the intended
> recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
> kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the
> message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for
> any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may
> arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.
>
>
> Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
> Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> 15/08/2008 11:43 PM
> Please respond to
> kitfox-list@matronics.com
>
> To
> kitfox-list@matronics.com
> cc
> Subject
> Re: Kitfox-List: Lacquer thinners
>
>
>
> That's exactly what I was told to do and did, when it came time to
> spray my flaperon hinge brackets. I knew that they would eventually
> be attached to the wing and then shot with Polytone, so I did the
> Polybrush "tacky", then shot with Polyspray and eventually Polytone.
> However, reading (sometimes my worst enemy) the literature, I chose
> to shoot larger metal and fiberglas parts with Polyfiber Enamel.
>
> I was wondering what Wayne had to say...thanks for keeping up with it.
>
> One small thought about getting the gallon of Polytone reducer...if
> you have the left-over sitting on your shelf, you'll probably never
> need to use it, but if you don't have any sitting around....look out
> for small accidents, hangar rash, etc...it's a take-off on Murphy's
> Law. : )
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster
> Jabiru 2200
> Status: "Condition grounded, but determined to try." (Pink
> Floyd..."Learning to Fly")
>
>
> On Aug 14, 2008, at 10:06 PM, gary.algate@sandvik.com wrote:
>
> >
> > Lynn - you are dead right it is for the wheel pants. I have had
> > pretty good success in the past with polytone on Fibreglass (even
> > though it's not really recommended). I think the biggest problem is
> > the bond and in the past I have applied a light primer coat and
> > while it's still "just" tacky I applied the Polytone.
> >
> > Best regards
> >
> > Gary
> >
> > By the way -no response yet from Wayne re your questions - He is
> > travelling at the moment but he will get back to me.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Gary
> >
> > Gary Algate
> > Classic 4 Jab 2200A
> > Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
> >
> >
> > This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the
> > addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of
> > this message by persons or entities other than the intended
> > recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
> > kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the
> > message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for
> > any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may
> > arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
> > Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> > 15/08/2008 11:22 AM
> > Please respond to
> > kitfox-list@matronics.com
> >
> > To
> > kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > cc
> > Subject
> > Re: Kitfox-List: Lacquer thinners
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > You can get "lacquer thinner" at most hardware stores, but like the
> > one poster said make sure of what it is (or something like that). I
> > don't know what that means except to be sure you read the label. I
> > figured that lacquer thinner was lacquer thinner, but maybe they are
> > not all created equally. Sorry I can't be more helpful, Gary. Maybe
> > you should just bite the bullet and get that one gallon that
> Aviaquip
> > offered. As far as my own experience is concerned, the stuff lasts
> > for a long time in the tightly-sealed can, so it won't go to waste.
> > The Polytone reducer is formulated for application in either cooler
> > or warmer temperatures, and comes in different part numbers
> depending
> > on the temperature of the air when it is applied.
> >
> > A question: are you using the Polytone to paint your wheels
> pants? Is
> > that why you're looking for Polytone reducer? If so, that's the
> wrong
> > stuff to use on hard surfaces, I was told. I was just putting 2
> and 2
> > together, and thought you might be painting your wheel pants...if
> > not, I'll keep quiet. : )
> >
> > Lynn Matteson
> > Kitfox IV Speedster
> > Jabiru 2200
> > Status: "Condition grounded, but determined to try." (Pink
> > Floyd..."Learning to Fly")
> > do not archive
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Aug 14, 2008, at 8:39 PM, gary.algate@sandvik.com wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > can somebody give me an explanation of what "lacquer thinners" are
> > > - I know if I ask the guy at the auto shop here he probably won't
> > > know what I mean and I know most of you guys in the USC will be
> > > shutting down soon .
> > >
> > > I am assuming it is the thinners for auto paint (not enamel or
> > > Urethane) ??
> > >
> > > Friday here so I want to get it for the weekend.
> > >
> > > regards
> > >
> > > Gary
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Gary Algate
> > > Classic 4 Jab2200A
> > > Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
> > >
> > >
> > > This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the
> > > addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of
> > > this message by persons or entities other than the intended
> > > recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in
> error,
> > > kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the
> > > message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for
> > > any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may
> > > arise as a result of the e-mail transmission. =5F-
> > > www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List =5F-
> > > www.matronics.com/contribution =5F-
> > > =======================
===========
> >
> >
> > -
> > -
> > -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List =5F-
> > www.matronics.com/contribution =5F-
> > =======================
===========
>
>
> -
> -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
> <Wheel Pants 002.jpg>
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| Subject: | Re: RK400 Clutch |
At 11:52 AM 8/17/2008, you wrote:
>Anyone using or have an opinion about switching to a RK400 clutch? I
>need to replace my hardy disk (not sure yet why it came apart) and
>was considering going to a clutch instead. Any help would be appreciated.
Love it, love it, love it. Wouldn't be without it. HOWEVER:
1. I haven't reached the useful life of the first unit and have not
had any good information from the makers on how to tell when to
replace it. (Other than the prop stops turning.) Still working on this one.
2. I recently had to replace my gearbox seals and bearings. There is
some concern that the clutch dust causes the lower rear seal to fail
pre-maturely, and that once it fails the dust migrates into the box
and eats the bearings and other seals. (Some evidence of that in my
engine.) My seals and bearings lasted about 230 hours. We're now on
iteration number two so we'll see what happens. Fortunately you get a
lot of notice of failure. Also fortunately a gearbox re-build is
fairly cheap, if you work hard to find the bearings and seals
elsewhere than Rotax. (Pretty good success last time.)
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
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