Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:06 AM - Re: X-Plane test (Michel Verheughe)
2. 04:25 AM - Re: Re: Serial # 1 Vixen, first flight! (fox5flyer)
3. 05:26 AM - Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report (fox5flyer)
4. 05:26 AM - Re: VG's (Catz631@aol.com)
5. 05:39 AM - Re: Panel WiringPanel Wiring (Catz631@aol.com)
6. 06:06 AM - Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report (Catz631@aol.com)
7. 06:35 AM - Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report (tc9008@aol.com)
8. 06:45 AM - Re: Fuel Tank Expose (Lynn Matteson)
9. 07:06 AM - Re: Panel Wiring (Lynn Matteson)
10. 07:09 AM - Re: Panel Wiring (Lynn Matteson)
11. 07:14 AM - Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report (paul wilson)
12. 07:46 AM - Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report (kirk hull)
13. 08:46 AM - Re: VG's (akflyer)
14. 08:48 AM - Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report (fox5flyer)
15. 08:49 AM - Re: Fuel Tank Expose (fox5flyer)
16. 08:52 AM - Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report (Lowell Fitt)
17. 09:01 AM - Re: Serial # 1 Vixen, first flight! (akflyer)
18. 09:01 AM - 2009 Ski Plane Fly-in photos (Bob Brennan)
19. 09:46 AM - Re: Fuel Tank Expose (Bob Brennan)
20. 09:57 AM - Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report (kerrjohna@comcast.net)
21. 09:58 AM - Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report (Larry Huntley)
22. 10:04 AM - air worthiness (jlno7@aim.com)
23. 10:07 AM - Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report (Paul Franz - Merlin GT)
24. 10:16 AM - Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report (Randy Daughenbaugh)
25. 11:15 AM - Re: 2009 Ski Plane Fly-in photos (Lynn Matteson)
26. 12:21 PM - Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report (Guy Buchanan)
27. 12:33 PM - Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report (kerrjohna@comcast.net)
28. 12:34 PM - Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report (JetPilot)
29. 01:00 PM - Re: 2009 Ski Plane Fly-in photos (Bob Brennan)
30. 01:00 PM - Re: VG's (JetPilot)
31. 01:23 PM - Re: X-Plane test (JetPilot)
32. 01:33 PM - Re: air worthiness (Lynn Matteson)
33. 02:01 PM - Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report (Lynn Matteson)
34. 02:10 PM - Video in High Definition: Flying around South Florida ... (JetPilot)
35. 02:26 PM - Re: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report (John Bonewitz)
36. 02:30 PM - Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report (Marco Menezes)
37. 03:11 PM - Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report (John Bonewitz)
38. 03:19 PM - Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report (John Bonewitz)
39. 03:35 PM - Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report (John Bonewitz)
40. 03:54 PM - Re: 2009 Ski Plane Fly-in photos (Lynn Matteson)
41. 04:03 PM - Re: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report (Lynn Matteson)
42. 04:35 PM - Re: posting photos - best way... (Paul Franz - Merlin GT)
43. 04:45 PM - Re: VG's (akflyer)
44. 04:46 PM - Re: Video in High Definition: Flying around South Florida ... (Dee Young)
45. 05:37 PM - Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report (Noel Loveys)
46. 08:45 PM - Re: Video in High Definition: Flying around South Florida ... (Noel Loveys)
47. 08:47 PM - My Series 5 - Testing picture upload (jbonewitz)
48. 08:47 PM - Re: posting photos - best way... (John Bonewitz)
49. 10:09 PM - Re: VG's (JetPilot)
50. 11:56 PM - Re: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report (JC Propeller Design)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: X-Plane test |
> From: JetPilot [orcabonita@hotmail.com]
> X-Plane is a neat piece of software, but it is far from being accurate for these
kinds
> of mods.
I agree, Mike. I have learned much about aerodynamic by doing slight changes and
see how it affects the performance and handling. But this is relative observation,
not absolute.
I can see how, e.g. moving the CoG aft affects spin tendency. But I wouldn't build
and fly a real plane by those data!
Cheers,
Michel Verheughe
Norway
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Serial # 1 Vixen, first flight! |
Good for you, Lloyd! Now the fun begins.
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT
"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but
progress."
- Joseph Joubert
----- Original Message -----
From: Eggstaf@aol.com
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 8:27 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Serial # 1 Vixen, first flight!
The main kit box for serial # ECV001 Vixen arrived here on June 29,
1993. I made the first flight out of Hilo, Hawaii (ITO) on January 14,
2009. It turned out to be, as they say, a non event. It was one of the
most rewarding and exciting things I've done in my whole life and that's
saying something at 69 years of age. All of you that are building really
have a great day to look forward to!!! Thanks to all who have provided
input over the years and special thanks to John & Debra McBean. Lloyd
Eggstaff
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
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A Good Credit Score is 700
or8747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=6
68072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=DecemailfooterNO62"> See yours in just 2
easy steps!
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report |
Great post, John. This gap seal business has been around since early
times on the Kitfox List and it's good that every so often it pops back
up. Be careful of that duct tape. If you leave it on there too long it
dries out and gets very difficult to remove, leaving residue that
adheres like glue. I don't know if it is still available, but many of
us used what is (or was) called Ski Saver tape. It was about 4 inches
wide, clear, and very heavy duty. Its purpose was to provide a layer of
protection on downhill and cross country skis. It was applied using the
same method you described. Mine has been on since May of 2000 and still
looks great and is pliable. Then again, my airplane spends it's idle
time in a hangar so I don't know how well it would hold up to outside
storage. I don't know if Ski Saver is still available, but some have
used with good results what is called Leading Edge tape which is very
similar and durable. Also it's clear and nearly invisible once
installed. I think Aircraft Spruce sells it, as well as other vendors.
Although the benefits are subtle and not always noticeable, they're
definitely there and worth the effort.
Good luck and keep us posted on your progress.
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT
"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but
progress."
- Joseph Joubert
----- Original Message -----
From: John Bonewitz
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 9:54 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report
Today I spent about an hour fashioning a make-shift gap seal for my
elevator. I decided to first make a temporary seal out of duct tape - I
mean speed tape :) to test its effectiveness. What I ended up with
looked so good (even in silver) that I wish it weren't temporary.
Installation was real easy. I attached about a half inch of the tape
to the trailing edge of the stabilizer and folded it forward, laying it
out on top of the stab, sticky side up. I then attached another piece of
tape on top of the first, face down, forming a double thick layer. I
then folded the tape back over the top of the elevator and pushed it
through the hinge gap, attaching it to the bottom leading edge of the
elevator, making sure the elevator was full up so it stretched the tape
taught. I made up three strips for each half of the stab so I could stay
clear of hinges and hardware.
It looked good, but would it stay on in flight? I envisioned taking
off and having the tower announce to the world that I had some sort of
sliver streamer ("looks like duct tape") trailing behind my plane - That
kind of embarrassment, like coming out of the men's room with a streamer
of toilet paper stuck to your shoe. Fortunately, that didn't happen.
After over an hour airborne all was well. But how did it handle? Well,
one thing I learned is that even with as much experience as I have in
this aircraft, detecting a small nuance of change is difficult (at least
for me). In hindsight, I probably should have flown right before I made
the modification. Today, the air was cold and the wind was light and
variable - quite a change from what we normally experience in North
Texas. It's difficult to compare this flight to the myriad of others
I've made in drastically different conditions. I can't say it made a big
difference, but I can say it sure didn't hurt. As I spend more time with
it and get some 3-pointers-on-grass behind me, I should know more. The
main point I'd like to pass on is that when you make a mod like this,
fly the airplane right before you install it. You'll be glad you did.
Question. What should I replace the duct tape with? One thought was to
purchase some vinyl sign material (the stuff they cut letters out of to
put on banners or vehicles) pre-cut to the width I need. Though not as
thick as duct tape, it is strong and should hold up to the elements. Any
other suggestions?
John Bonewitz
Kitfox 5
Message 4
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I have 72 VG,s on each wing per the instructions I received with the kit.
(actually two kits) I believe that is enough. The thing looks like a porcupine!
Dick Maddux
Pensacola,Fl
**************From Wall Street to Main Street and everywhere in between, stay
up-to-date with the latest news. (http://aol.com?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000023)
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Panel WiringPanel Wiring |
Thanks Lowell ! excellent tip. What you are creating is something similar to
my British cars which uses different color wires with stripes for
identification and use. I will try your method in the future.
Dick Maddux
Pensacola,Fl
DO NOT Archive
**************From Wall Street to Main Street and everywhere in between, stay
up-to-date with the latest news. (http://aol.com?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000023)
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report |
John,
I used clear leading edge tape (from Spruce) for my gap seal tape. It is
relatively thick but the adhesive is not all that great. My first ones started
to
peel off in this Fl heat so I took the stuff off. Well, I didn't like that
much either. I could tell the difference in my elevator authority so I made some
more gap seal and stuck it back on. This time only a tiny bit was coming up
on the leading edge of the tape and I was able to stick it back down with
Polytac.
Spruce sent me a flyer advertising new 3M tapes but they are expensive. I
have two rolls of expensive tape already and I certainly don't want to
experiment with any more.
At one time one of the members was talking about some type of ski tape that
he was using and was working well. I tried to find that on the net but no joy.
I too would like to find the perfect tape that works and looks nice. I
don't really like having the stuff back there as it looks like a Band-Aid but it
sure makes a difference in the elevator authority on landing. This is the only
tail dragger airplane I have ever owned (it's number 14) that takes constant
work to achieve a nice 3 point landing and is the only one where wheel
landings are so easy.
Maybe some other guys have got an idea of which tape to use.
Dick Maddux
Fox 4-1200
Rotax 912UL
Pensacola,Fl
**************From Wall Street to Main Street and everywhere in between, stay
up-to-date with the latest news. (http://aol.com?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000023)
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report |
Could you send some photos of your installation. I would like to try it.
Travis
Kitfox IV
-----Original Message-----
From: Catz631@aol.com
Sent: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 8:44 am
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report
John,
?I used clear?leading edge tape (from Spruce) for my gap seal tape. It is relatively
thick but the adhesive is not all that great. My first ones started to peel
off in this Fl heat so I took the stuff off. Well, I didn't like that much
either. I could tell the difference in my elevator authority so I made some more
gap seal and?stuck it back on. This time only a?tiny bit was coming up on
the leading edge of the tape and I was able to stick it back down with Polytac.
? Spruce sent me a flyer advertising new 3M tapes but they are expensive. I have
two rolls of expensive tape already and I certainly don't want to experiment
with any more.
? At one time one of the members was talking about some type of ski tape that he
was using and was working well. I tried to find that on the net but no joy.
?? I too would like to find the perfect tape that works and looks nice. I don't
really like having the stuff back there as it looks like a Band-Aid but it sure
makes a difference in the elevator authority on landing. This is the only tail
dragger airplane I have ever owned (it's number 14) that takes constant work
to achieve a nice 3 point landing and is the only one where wheel landings
are so easy.
? Maybe some other guys have got an idea of which tape to use.
?????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Dick Maddux
?????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Fox 4-1200
?????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Rotax 912UL
?????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Pensacola,Fl
>From Wall Street to Main Street and everywhere in between, stay up-to-date with
the latest news.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank Expose |
Pat-
It's a little different in the plane, or any other application if you
have the finger strainers inside the tank. These allow for more crap
to *try* to block the fuel outlet before any real blockage occurs.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
New skis done and flying
On Jan 29, 2009, at 3:43 PM, patrick reilly wrote:
> Dick, Thanks for the tank info. All I know is, I will never waste
> time trying to reclaim a gas tank, car, motorcycle or plane, again.
> I spent 2 years thinking I had a vapor lock problem because the
> Kreem pieces were too large to pass through lines to the filiters I
> was checking. All I had to do was sit by the road till I could
> start up again. I sure as hell don't want to have to find a safe
> place to land first.
> do not archive
>
> Pat Reilly
> Mod 3 582 Rebuild
> Rockford, IL
>
>
> From: Catz631@aol.com
> Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 08:46:25 -0500
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fuel Tank Expose
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>
>
> Pat,
> Some of the members listed a website for plastic Avid/Kitfox wing
> tanks a while back. I know nothing about them but here it
> is :wingtanks.com. I would be interested to hear of some results
> using these tanks. Apparently you cut the tops out of your present
> wing tanks and install the plastic tanks. The fuel quantity is
> somewhat reduced but for me, no big deal as the fuel range on my
> aircraft far exceeds my bladder capacity. Besides it doesn't take
> too much time before I am ready to land at an airport to "airport
> bum" steal the aviation magazines and eat doughnuts.
> Dick Maddux
> Fox 4-1200
> Pensacola,Fl
>
> >From Wall Street to Main Street and everywhere in between, stay up-
> to-date with the latest news.
> >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-
> Listronics.comww.matronics.com/contribution_-
> ============================================================ _-
> ============================================================ _-
> ============================================================ _-
> contribution_-
> ===========================================================
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Panel Wiring |
OFF TOPIC..do not archive
TEST car, Pat....in a wind tunnel....with thermocouples monitoring
every heat source, and every *heated* object that you could imagine.
Just for an example...1 on the catalytic converter, 1 on the
catalytic converter heat shield (between CC and floorpan), 1 on under
side of floorpan, 1on top side of floorpan, 1 on underside of carpet
padding, 1 on underside of carpet, and 1 on top side of carpet. These
7 thermocouples were called "shadowed" thermocouples, as they read
the heat from one source and see where that heats' "shadow" will
fall. This was to do with "creature comfort" for the passengers.
That's seven for one stinkin' location, Now imagine something similar
for exhaust manifolds shadowed to fuel pumps, heater hoses, spark
plug wires, etc...not creature comforts, but I'd be a lot more
comfortable is my spark plug wires weren't burning, or my fuel pump.
They even had a t'couple on the back side of the transmission bell
housing, and...you guessed it....shadows on the floorpan directly in
line with that one, and carpet pad, and carpet, etc. It didn't take
long to add up.
When we went on a road trip we would only have 25 locations to
monitor because the Brown Recorders (I think I recall that name
correctly) only had 25 pointers that made ink dots and a number on
the 14" wide printer tape. When we monitored those 25, we would...the
engineers would...interpolate the rest of the data based on how the
tunnel test compared with the real test...the desert in Phoenix, and
the log jams in Los Angeles.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
New skis done and flying
do not archive
On Jan 29, 2009, at 3:46 PM, patrick reilly wrote:
> Lynn, Wait a minute, 120 thermocouples on A car? Come on!
>
> Pat Reilly
> Mod 3 582 Rebuild
> Rockford, IL
>
>
> > From: lynnmatt@jps.net
> > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Panel Wiring
> > Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 14:27:23 -0500
> > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> >
> >
> > I just found the number markers that I used to use in model planes.
> > We used them in the wind tunnel at Chrysler to number thermocouples
> > and leads. (Apparently some of these found their way into my toolbox
> > when I left there) They are/were made by the W. H. Brady Co.,
> > Milwaukee, Toronto, London, Brussels. They probably have an internet
> > site, but I'm going by the printing on the "cards" themselves...and
> > these are OLD. Each "card" contains 36 strips of a particular
> number.
> > Each strip repeats the number 6 times, so you can wrap a strip
> around
> > a wire and see what number it is from completely around the wire.
> > They are adhesive-backed, and you just peel the strip off the card
> > and apply. You could apply a strip to the wire in question, on
> either
> > side of the firewall for example, and at each end of the wire, or
> > when the wire disappears behind something for easy tracing. I just
> > wish I had found them when I was wiring my plane. I made up hand-
> > written notes on pieces of white tape and applied to the
> wire...time-
> > consuming. The ones I have are numbered 1 through 20, but I recall
> > having 120 thermocouples on a car, so the numbers go up that high.
> >
> > Lynn Matteson
> > Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> > Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs
> > Sensenich 62x46
> > Electroair direct-fire ignition system
> > New skis done and flying
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Jan 29, 2009, at 11:39 AM, Noel Loveys wrote:
> >
> > > Aircraft wire is designed to be light, pretty fire proof and best
> > > of all made to go into airplanes. That pretty much says it all.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Crimp all connections, solder should be reserved for work inside
> > > the devices not outside. Preferably beg, borrow, buy or steal a
> > > crimper from an A&P . The crimpers they use give very consistent
> > > results and are nothing like the ones available at electronics
> shops.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Finally number your wires and make a block diagram of your wiring.
> > > If you ever have a problem you have something to study and even
> > > show others for advice. If you ever sell the airplane that diagram
> > > may be worth its weight in gold to the new owner. Pick your
> > > devices and number them 1, 2, 3... Then the wire from your fuse to
> > > the switch of device 1 would be marked 1-a. . From the switch to
> > > the device 1-b and so on. Or you can mark the wires with a couple
> > > of markers using the binary number system. (red=1,Bk=0) Starting
> > > with wire #0 you can identify 16 pieces of wire with just four
> > > dots just always number from the source of current. You may also
> > > number the source end of a wire to make it easy to figure out the
> > > number.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Failing that you may find someone with a wire numbering machine...
> > > now that would be nice.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Noel
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-
> > > list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of patrick reilly
> > > Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 9:18 PM
> > > To: kitfox matronics
> > > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Panel Wiring
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Tore the wiring off the switch to fuses today. Won't be all that
> > > hard to rewire. The system was all aircraft wire. I used a couple
> > > of standard wires in the ignition system, but was planning on
> using
> > > aircraft wire to rewire the panel. What are your thoughts on
> > > standard wire vs aircraft wire?
> > >
> > > Pat Reilly
> > > Mod 3 582 Rebuild
> > > Rockford, IL
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > From: noelloveys@yahoo.ca
> > > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Panel Wiring
> > > Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 11:24:44 -0330
> > >
> > > Marwynne:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Youre being a bit hard on Patrick arent you... NOT! One thing no
> > > one in a cloth airplane wants to experience in flight is any kind
> > > of fire. And the positioning of the fuses was just asking for one.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I too am glad to see the plane will be made safer.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Noel
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-
> > > list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marwynne Kuhn
> > > Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 11:37 PM
> > > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Panel Wiring
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Patrick,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > To answer your question why someone did something is hard
> > > to answer without talking to him or her. Most people think the
> > > fuse or breaker is there to protect radio, etc. The breaker or
> > > fuse is in there to protect the wire that feeds the load. I have
> > > worked in the electrical field for more than 35 years and is very
> > > common for people to misunderstand there function. I am glad to
> > > see you are going to correct the problem . This will make it a
> > > safer plane for you to fly. You don't want a fire while you are
> > > flying....
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Marwynne Kuhn
> > >
> > > Hilltop Lakes 0TE4
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >
> > > From: Noel Loveys
> > >
> > > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > >
> > > Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 6:12 PM
> > >
> > > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Panel Wiring
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The answer to your question is no one told him... I was told years
> > > ago when I studied aircraft wiring.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Noel
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-
> > > list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of patrick reilly
> > > Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 3:31 PM
> > > To: kitfox matronics
> > > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Panel Wiring
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Noel & Maryanne, That is my question! I know that the device will
> > > not shut off with a frozen switch as Mike talks about. And,
> that is
> > > not a "short". I was worried about a short(to ground) of a switch.
> > > Not an electrically frozen switch. It wouldn't matter where the
> > > fuse was located with a "frozen" switch. I guess I should tear the
> > > switch/fuse system out and run the electricty from source through
> > > the fuse, and then to the switch. Makes sense to me. How in the
> > > Hell can a guy that did such high quality work on the rest of the
> > > plane be that uninformed on the electrical cirrcuitry. I have
> never
> > > seen power to a switch and then a fuse, except in a battery shut
> > > off switch.
> > >
> > > Pat Reilly
> > > Mod 3 582 Rebuild
> > > Rockford, IL
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > From: noelloveys@yahoo.ca
> > > > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > > > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Panel Wiring
> > > > Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 13:07:48 -0330
> > > >
> > > <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
> > > >
> > > > I'll answer your question with a question
> > > >
> > > > What happens if the switch gets shorted to ground, a real
> > > possibility.
> > > >
> > > > + ------(Switch) -------(fuse)----(Device)
> > > > |
> > > > (-)
> > > >
> > > > What you describe is a switch frozen open not a short.
> > > >
> > > > Noel
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> > > > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> > > Michael Gibbs
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 1:53 AM
> > > > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > > > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Panel Wiring
> > > >
> > > <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
> > > >
> > > > Pat sez:
> > > >
> > > > >Mike and Noel, OK, I got what you are telling me. But, that
> does
> > > not
> > > > >answer my question.
> > > > >
> > > > >+-----(Switch)-----(Fuse)-----(Devise)----(-)
> > > > >+-----(Switch)-----(Fuse)-----(Devise)----(-)
> > > > >+-----(Switch)-----(Fuse)-----(Devise)----(-)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >All the +'s on the left form a power buss. Mine is actually
> a wire
> > > > >connecting 1 terminal of each switch. Next in the circuit is
> the
> > > > >fuse. Mike, by your definition, shorting of the switch,
> which is
> > > not
> > > > >downline of the fuse would not be protected by that circuits
> fuse.
> > > >
> > > > There is nothing wrong with your diagram. A switch that is
> "shorted"
> > > > is simply a switch that is turned on--it allows current to flow
> > > > through the circuit. You don't need to "protect" the switch
> from a
> > > > short. What you want to protect is the wire that forms the
> circuit,
> > > > which you've done by placing a fuse in the circuit. A short
> in the
> > > > device (with the switch on) would cause too much current flow
> > > through
> > > > the wire, and that's what the fuse will prevent by blowing, thus
> > > > opening the circuit and stopping the current flow.
> > > >
> > > > >What would happen if there was a dead short at a switch?
> > > >
> > > > The device would be on, nothing more.
> > > >
> > > > >If the fuse was hooked into the buss before the switch and
> there
> > > was
> > > > >a dead short at the switch, you would only lose power to that
> > > > >circuit.
> > > >
> > > > No. Opening a circuit anywhere in the circuit prevents
> current flow.
> > > > It's not like a water leak which could continue to flow to
> the point
> > > > of the leak. Any break in a circuit stops the flow of
> electricity.
> > > >
> > > > >I have never seen power to a switch and then to a fuse.
> > > >
> > > > I didn't do mine this way but I see no problem with it.
> > > >
> > > > >...I don't know what fuse would blow if there was a dead
> short at
> > > > >one of the switches.
> > > >
> > > > The device controlled by the switch would be on and you couldn't
> > > turn
> > > > it off, that's all. But the same would be true even if you
> > > > rearranged your fuses and switches. As long as the device is not
> > > > shorted, the fuse shouldn't blow.
> > > >
> > > > Mike G.
> > > > N728KF, Kitfox IV-1200 Speedster
> > > > Phoenix, AZ
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >=====================
> > > >===========
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-Listhttp://
> > > forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
> > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://
> > > www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://
> > > forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/
> > > contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/
> > > Navigator?Kitfox-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comhttp://
> > > www.matronics.com/contribution
> > > >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-
> > > Listronics.comww.matronics.com/contribution http://
> > > www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-Listhttp://
> > > forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
> > > =================================== _-
> > > ========== _-
> > > contribution_-
> > > ======================
> > _====
> >
> >
> >
> ============================================================ _-
> ============================================================ _-
> contribution_-
> ===========================================================
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Panel Wiring |
I wrote the names of mine on white plastic tape and applied the long
way on the wire, then covered with clear heat shrink, but then it
seems like the label was always on the *other* side of the wire when
you wanted to know where it went. : ) Damn aircraft wiring with it's
one-color scheme!
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
New skis done and flying
do not archive
On Jan 29, 2009, at 7:42 PM, Lowell Fitt wrote:
> <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
>
> There was a trick that was in one of the builders magazines when I
> was building years ago that suggested white heatshrink with colored
> bands that used the resister code. It was easy to put the
> heatshrink over an appropriately sized drill bit in the cordless
> drill and drawing the lines with the drill in low speed.
> Recommended was colored Sharpies. I used this and not only does it
> look nifty, it works well with one exception. After about five
> years the yellow and orange looks pretty much the same. I had
> every wire coded this way and relate at a glance each wire to the
> diagram. Each system had a designated first color, i.e., lighting,
> instruments, ignition, etc.
>
> Dymo makes imprintable Heat Shrink, but last time I looked it was
> pretty much jumbo sized.
>
> Lowell Fitt
> Cameron Park, CA
> Model IV-1200 R-912 UL
> Installed white LED Nav light and covering Rudder
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report |
John,
If I was going to do this I would choose 3M #8674. ACS is offering
free samples now. It is the same stuff used by auto detail shops for
clear bras. They should have it for less cost than ACS.
Duct tape is a real poor product. The adhesive will give up after a
short time in the sun and rain. Then it will leave a residue that is
very hard to remove. It is intended for very temporary use.
Of course the favorite tape per the list archives is ski tape . Used
by sli shops to protect the top of snow skis.
Paul
==========================
At 06:54 PM 1/29/2009, you wrote:
>Question. What should I replace the duct tape with? One thought was
>to purchase some vinyl sign material (the stuff they cut letters out
>of to put on banners or vehicles) pre-cut to the width I need.
>Though not as thick as duct tape, it is strong and should hold up to
>the elements. Any other suggestions?
>
>John Bonewitz
>Kitfox 5
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Elevator Gap Seal Test Report |
Does anybody have pictures of the gap seal installation
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of fox5flyer
Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 7:07 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report
Great post, John. This gap seal business has been around since early times
on the Kitfox List and it's good that every so often it pops back up. Be
careful of that duct tape. If you leave it on there too long it dries out
and gets very difficult to remove, leaving residue that adheres like glue.
I don't know if it is still available, but many of us used what is (or was)
called Ski Saver tape. It was about 4 inches wide, clear, and very heavy
duty. Its purpose was to provide a layer of protection on downhill and
cross country skis. It was applied using the same method you described.
Mine has been on since May of 2000 and still looks great and is pliable.
Then again, my airplane spends it's idle time in a hangar so I don't know
how well it would hold up to outside storage. I don't know if Ski Saver is
still available, but some have used with good results what is called Leading
Edge tape which is very similar and durable. Also it's clear and nearly
invisible once installed. I think Aircraft Spruce sells it, as well as other
vendors.
Although the benefits are subtle and not always noticeable, they're
definitely there and worth the effort.
Good luck and keep us posted on your progress.
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT
"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress."
- Joseph Joubert
----- Original Message -----
From: John Bonewitz <mailto:bonewitz@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 9:54 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report
Today I spent about an hour fashioning a make-shift gap seal for my
elevator. I decided to first make a temporary seal out of duct tape - I mean
speed tape :) to test its effectiveness. What I ended up with looked so good
(even in silver) that I wish it weren't temporary.
Installation was real easy. I attached about a half inch of the tape to the
trailing edge of the stabilizer and folded it forward, laying it out on top
of the stab, sticky side up. I then attached another piece of tape on top of
the first, face down, forming a double thick layer. I then folded the tape
back over the top of the elevator and pushed it through the hinge gap,
attaching it to the bottom leading edge of the elevator, making sure the
elevator was full up so it stretched the tape taught. I made up three strips
for each half of the stab so I could stay clear of hinges and hardware.
It looked good, but would it stay on in flight? I envisioned taking off and
having the tower announce to the world that I had some sort of sliver
streamer ("looks like duct tape") trailing behind my plane - That kind of
embarrassment, like coming out of the men's room with a streamer of toilet
paper stuck to your shoe. Fortunately, that didn't happen.
After over an hour airborne all was well. But how did it handle? Well, one
thing I learned is that even with as much experience as I have in this
aircraft, detecting a small nuance of change is difficult (at least for me).
In hindsight, I probably should have flown right before I made the
modification. Today, the air was cold and the wind was light and variable -
quite a change from what we normally experience in North Texas. It's
difficult to compare this flight to the myriad of others I've made in
drastically different conditions. I can't say it made a big difference, but
I can say it sure didn't hurt. As I spend more time with it and get some
3-pointers-on-grass behind me, I should know more. The main point I'd like
to pass on is that when you make a mod like this, fly the airplane right
before you install it. You'll be glad you did.
Question. What should I replace the duct tape with? One thought was to
purchase some vinyl sign material (the stuff they cut letters out of to put
on banners or vehicles) pre-cut to the width I need. Though not as thick as
duct tape, it is strong and should hold up to the elements. Any other
suggestions?
John Bonewitz
Kitfox 5
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref
"http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 13
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[quote="JetPilot"]
akflyer wrote:
>
> Dick Maddux wrote:
> >
> >
> > I used the pattern supplied by Land Shorter. The VG's are 3" apart at 5.1"
back from the leading edge. They should be ~10% of the wingspan apart, and 1%
of the cord, including flaperons.
> >
> >
>
>
> I think Dick got the spacing of his VG's way to far apart, which would result
in far less than the optimum number of VG's. This would explain Dicks OK, but
not good results from adding VG's to his airplane.
>
> Leonard got the spacing about right according to the instructions from www.landshorter.com If you don't put enough VG's on, you wont get the full benefit, which is why I always say, exact placement of VG's is
> CRITICAL to getting the full benefit of VG"s.
>
> Mike
Mike, I am a little slow here in Alaska, who knows maybe the cold really does effect
the brain, however, your first post says spacing is not critical, then you
later post and say it is. What are the chances of getting you to consult with
yourself and see if the two of you can come up with the same answer. Get
back to us so we know which one to listen to.
I got the spacing on mine, not about right, but just right, using the templates
supplied.
sincerely
Snake Man < I think I am gonna put that on the cowling... Kinda catchy ya know
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1260
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
hander outer of humorless darwin awards
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227687#227687
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report |
Good post, Paul. If anyone out there finds a source for Ski tape aka
Ski Saver tape, please let us on the list know about it. I gave up
looking for more of it. Today's snow skis have a very tough gel coating
on them and the product may have died for lack of sales.
Deke
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: paul wilson
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 9:56 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report
John,
If I was going to do this I would choose 3M #8674. ACS is offering
free samples now. It is the same stuff used by auto detail shops for
clear bras. They should have it for less cost than ACS.
Duct tape is a real poor product. The adhesive will give up after a
short time in the sun and rain. Then it will leave a residue that is
very hard to remove. It is intended for very temporary use.
Of course the favorite tape per the list archives is ski tape . Used
by sli shops to protect the top of snow skis.
Paul
=
At 06:54 PM 1/29/2009, you wrote:
Question. What should I replace the duct tape with? One thought was
to purchase some vinyl sign material (the stuff they cut letters out of
to put on banners or vehicles) pre-cut to the width I need. Though not
as thick as duct tape, it is strong and should hold up to the elements.
Any other suggestions?
John Bonewitz
Kitfox 5
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank Expose |
Actually, Kreem is pretty good stuff and does what it's intended to do. The
problem is in the application. The surface has to be perfectly clean and
dry with no residues of mold release, oils, etc. After soap and water, the
last rinse should be with clean MEK, then dilute the Kreem 50/50 with MEK
and slosh. You won't have another problem.
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT
"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress."
- Joseph Joubert
>
> On Jan 29, 2009, at 3:43 PM, patrick reilly wrote:
>
>> Dick, Thanks for the tank info. All I know is, I will never waste time
>> trying to reclaim a gas tank, car, motorcycle or plane, again. I spent 2
>> years thinking I had a vapor lock problem because the Kreem pieces were
>> too large to pass through lines to the filiters I was checking. All I
>> had to do was sit by the road till I could start up again. I sure as
>> hell don't want to have to find a safe place to land first.
>> do not archive
>>
>> Pat Reilly
>> Mod 3 582 Rebuild
>> Rockford, IL
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Catz631@aol.com
>> Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 08:46:25 -0500
>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fuel Tank Expose
>> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>>
>>
>> Pat,
>> Some of the members listed a website for plastic Avid/Kitfox wing tanks
>> a while back. I know nothing about them but here it is :wingtanks.com. I
>> would be interested to hear of some results using these tanks.
>> Apparently you cut the tops out of your present wing tanks and install
>> the plastic tanks. The fuel quantity is somewhat reduced but for me, no
>> big deal as the fuel range on my aircraft far exceeds my bladder
>> capacity. Besides it doesn't take too much time before I am ready to
>> land at an airport to "airport bum" steal the aviation magazines and eat
>> doughnuts.
>> Dick Maddux
>> Fox 4-1200
>> Pensacola,Fl
>>
>> >From Wall Street to Main Street and everywhere in between, stay up-
>> to-date with the latest news.
>> >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-
>> Listronics.comww.matronics.com/contribution_-
>> ============================================================ _-
>> ============================================================ _-
>> ============================================================ _-
>> contribution_-
>> ===========================================================
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report |
John,
When I had my camera mounted on the lift strut, I used the 3M vinyl tape
available at most big box and little box hardware stores. It was replaced
periodically as I serviced the unit, but it was on in some places for
several years. I never had an incident of peeling and when I had to remove
it, the only residue was a line at the edge where the adhesive must have
squeezed out and collected a bit of dust. This came off with a bit of elbow
grease.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Bonewitz" <bonewitz@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 9:31 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report
> Thank you Rick,
>
> The only thing I worry about with the duct tape is how I've seen the
> silver
> separate from the adhesive backing and leave that crusty adhesive welded
> to
> the surface. But then perhaps I'm using cheap duct tape. Heck, I'd leave
> it
> on if I didn't think it would do that. The 3M tape sounds good. Does it
> come
> wide enough?
>
> John Bonewitz
> Series 5 Taildragger
>
> On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 9:41 PM, Weiss Richard <MDKitfox@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> John,
>> Great to hear from you again and welcome home. I'm enjoying your
>> adventure
>> with the gap seals.
>>
>> You asked about replacing the duct tape. Well, if you did like the duct
>> tape, as you suggest, why not go to the aviation aisle at home depot and
>> get
>> white duct tape (there are other colors available.) I do know that as
>> good
>> as the 'high speed tape' is, after about a year in the sun it would be
>> best
>> to replace it. (I think that holds true for most tapes.) There is one
>> tape, made by 3M, that I used for the stripes on my aircraft, that is
>> available in auto parts stores that is somewhat resistant to the effects
>> of
>> the sun. If your interested, I can get the name of it for you tomorrow
>> when
>> I get to my hangar. One thing to be careful about, the vinyls tend to
>> stretch, but I don't know if it's significant enough to be a factor or
>> not.
>>
>> Good luck on the the adventure and please continue to keep us posted.
>>
>> Rick Weiss
>> N39RW Series V Speedster, 912ULS
>> SkyStar S/N 1
>> Port Orange, FL
>>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Serial # 1 Vixen, first flight! |
Congrats on the first flight! It is a VERY exhilarating feeling when the wheels
break the ground for the first time!
Last time I was in Hilo it was to inspect a tank that had split a seam and let
molasses run down the streets of Hilo. I think it was in 98 or 99. Spent some
time out under the docks Xraying the fuel pipes. Lived on Oahu for 2 years.
Darn, that was the toughest job I ever had... the refinery's are right on the
beach so I would go snorkeling everyday at lunch... that was tough to take!
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1260
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
hander outer of humorless darwin awards
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227689#227689
Message 18
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| Subject: | 2009 Ski Plane Fly-in photos |
For those who don't get the EAA e-Hotline newsletter - here's a link to the
recent Oshkosh fly-in photos.
http://www.eaa.org/apps/galleries/gallery.aspx?ID=149
No I did not attend but I thought Lynn might want to see what he missed...
not rubbing it in Lynn, all the best of intentions, and there's some
interesting homebuilt ski designs pictured. I'm betting that the wife of the
pilot in picture #22 is wondering why her automatic garage door opener isn't
working while her hubby is away! ;-)
Bob Brennan - N717GB
ELSA Repairman, inspection rated
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
Message 19
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| Subject: | Fuel Tank Expose |
When I sloshed my aluminum wing tank with Kreem I used a 2 part system
bought at a local Harley Davidson chop-shop. It came with very specific
instructions - if I remember correctly you are meant to use part A, which is
called an "acid wash", for a certain amount of time per rotation, then dump
out and save it, then rinse with water several times, then use Part A again,
rinse, then use Part B which is the Kreem coating itself, again rotating the
tank at specific times. It worked well at removing an old layer of flaking
"slosh" and sealing a front seam leak, as well as completely sealing the
"finger strainer" (oops!) I didn't know was there at the time.
I may not have remembered the sequence exactly but it seems more logical to
the product than soap-and-water and mixtures of MEK, or have I done my tank
incorrectly?
Bob Brennan - N717GB
ELSA Repairman, inspection rated
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of fox5flyer
Sent: 30 January 2009 11:37 am
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fuel Tank Expose
Actually, Kreem is pretty good stuff and does what it's intended to do. The
problem is in the application. The surface has to be perfectly clean and
dry with no residues of mold release, oils, etc. After soap and water, the
last rinse should be with clean MEK, then dilute the Kreem 50/50 with MEK
and slosh. You won't have another problem.
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT
"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress."
- Joseph Joubert
>
> On Jan 29, 2009, at 3:43 PM, patrick reilly wrote:
>
>> Dick, Thanks for the tank info. All I know is, I will never waste time
>> trying to reclaim a gas tank, car, motorcycle or plane, again. I spent 2
>> years thinking I had a vapor lock problem because the Kreem pieces were
>> too large to pass through lines to the filiters I was checking. All I
>> had to do was sit by the road till I could start up again. I sure as
>> hell don't want to have to find a safe place to land first.
>> do not archive
>>
>> Pat Reilly
>> Mod 3 582 Rebuild
>> Rockford, IL
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Catz631@aol.com
>> Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 08:46:25 -0500
>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fuel Tank Expose
>> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>>
>>
>> Pat,
>> Some of the members listed a website for plastic Avid/Kitfox wing tanks
>> a while back. I know nothing about them but here it is :wingtanks.com. I
>> would be interested to hear of some results using these tanks.
>> Apparently you cut the tops out of your present wing tanks and install
>> the plastic tanks. The fuel quantity is somewhat reduced but for me, no
>> big deal as the fuel range on my aircraft far exceeds my bladder
>> capacity. Besides it doesn't take too much time before I am ready to
>> land at an airport to "airport bum" steal the aviation magazines and eat
>> doughnuts.
>> Dick Maddux
>> Fox 4-1200
>> Pensacola,Fl
>>
>> >From Wall Street to Main Street and everywhere in between, stay up-
>> to-date with the latest news.
>> >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-
>> Listronics.comww.matronics.com/contribution_-
>> ============================================================ _-
>> ============================================================ _-
>> ============================================================ _-
>> contribution_-
>> ===========================================================
>
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report |
I used adhesive clear shelf liner from the aviation department at Walmart. The
area was disquised as kitdhen wares. the material was cut 1" strips, overlapped
sticky surfaces facing about 1/2". The assembled strip was then attached
as described. In 12 years it has never been replaced.
John Kerr
----- Original Message -----
From: John Bonewitz
Sent: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 02:54:16 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Kitfox-List: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report
Today I spent about an hour fashioning a make-shift gap seal for my elevator. I
decided to first make a temporary seal out of duct tape - I mean speed tape :)
to test its effectiveness. What I ended up with looked so good (even in silver)
that I wish it weren't temporary.
Installation was real easy. I attached about a half inch of the tape to the trailing
edge of the stabilizer and folded it forward, laying it out on top of the
stab, sticky side up. I then attached another piece of tape on top of the first,
face down, forming a double thick layer. I then folded the tape back over
the top of the elevator and pushed it through the hinge gap, attaching it to
the bottom leading edge of the elevator, making sure the elevator was full up
so it stretched the tape taught. I made up three strips for each half of the stab
so I could stay clear of hinges and hardware.
It looked good, but would it stay on in flight? I envisioned taking off and having
the tower announce to the world that I had some sort of sliver streamer ("looks
like duct tape") trailing behind my plane - That kind of embarrassment,
like coming out of the men's room with a streamer of toilet paper stuck to your
shoe. Fortunately, that didn't happen.
After over an hour airborne all was well. But how did it handle? Well, one thing
I learned is that even with as much experience as I have in this aircraft, detecting
a small nuance of change is difficult (at least for me). In hindsight,
I probably should have flown right before I made the modification. Today, the
air was cold and the wind was light and variable - quite a change from what
we normally experience in North Texas. It's difficult to compare this flight to
the myriad of others I've made in drastically different conditions. I can't
say it made a big difference, but I can say it sure didn't hurt. As I spend more
time with it and get some 3-pointers-on-grass behind me, I should know more.
The main point I'd like to pass on is that when you make a mod like this, fly
the airplane right before you install it. You'll be glad you did.
Question. What should I replace the duct tape with? One thought was to purchase
some vinyl sign material (the stuff they cut letters out of to put on banners
or vehicles) pre-cut to the width I need. Though not as thick as duct tape, it
is strong and should hold up to the elements. Any other suggestions?
John Bonewitz
Kitfox 5
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report |
I found that "Ski Saver" tape worked well and was good for 2-3 yrs. It
is used to cover the tops of Xcountry skis. I don't think it is used any
more,but - - - Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: Weiss Richard
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 10:41 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report
John,
Great to hear from you again and welcome home. I'm enjoying your
adventure with the gap seals.
You asked about replacing the duct tape. Well, if you did like the
duct tape, as you suggest, why not go to the aviation aisle at home
depot and get white duct tape (there are other colors available.) I do
know that as good as the 'high speed tape' is, after about a year in the
sun it would be best to replace it. (I think that holds true for most
tapes.) There is one tape, made by 3M, that I used for the stripes on
my aircraft, that is available in auto parts stores that is somewhat
resistant to the effects of the sun. If your interested, I can get the
name of it for you tomorrow when I get to my hangar. One thing to be
careful about, the vinyls tend to stretch, but I don't know if it's
significant enough to be a factor or not.
Good luck on the the adventure and please continue to keep us posted.
Rick Weiss
N39RW Series V Speedster, 912ULS
SkyStar S/N 1
Port Orange, FL
On Jan 29, 2009, at 9:54 PM, John Bonewitz wrote:
Today I spent about an hour fashioning a make-shift gap seal for my
elevator. I decided to first make a temporary seal out of duct tape - I
mean speed tape :) to test its effectiveness. What I ended up with
looked so good (even in silver) that I wish it weren't temporary.
Installation was real easy. I attached about a half inch of the tape
to the trailing edge of the stabilizer and folded it forward, laying it
out on top of the stab, sticky side up. I then attached another piece of
tape on top of the first, face down, forming a double thick layer. I
then folded the tape back over the top of the elevator and pushed it
through the hinge gap, attaching it to the bottom leading edge of the
elevator, making sure the elevator was full up so it stretched the tape
taught. I made up three strips for each half of the stab so I could stay
clear of hinges and hardware.
It looked good, but would it stay on in flight? I envisioned taking
off and having the tower announce to the world that I had some sort of
sliver streamer ("looks like duct tape") trailing behind my plane - That
kind of embarrassment, like coming out of the men's room with a streamer
of toilet paper stuck to your shoe. Fortunately, that didn't happen.
After over an hour airborne all was well. But how did it handle?
Well, one thing I learned is that even with as much experience as I have
in this aircraft, detecting a small nuance of change is difficult (at
least for me). In hindsight, I probably should have flown right before I
made the modification. Today, the air was cold and the wind was light
and variable - quite a change from what we normally experience in North
Texas. It's difficult to compare this flight to the myriad of others
I've made in drastically different conditions. I can't say it made a big
difference, but I can say it sure didn't hurt. As I spend more time with
it and get some 3-pointers-on-grass behind me, I should know more. The
main point I'd like to pass on is that when you make a mod like this,
fly the airplane right before you install it. You'll be glad you did.
Question. What should I replace the duct tape with? One thought was
to purchase some vinyl sign material (the stuff they cut letters out of
to put on banners or vehicles) pre-cut to the width I need. Though not
as thick as duct tape, it is strong and should hold up to the elements.
Any other suggestions?
John Bonewitz
Kitfox 5
tp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
cs.com
matronics.com/contribution
=
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
1/30/2009 7:37 AM
Message 22
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I to had problems getting an original certificate. I had a copy of the
original when I bought the Kitfox but the A@P and CFI wouldn't consider
flying it without the original. I called the FAA office and they
wanted to inspect it before issuing a certificate. Two months later
they inspected it and found several repairs that were needed I did
the repairs and two months later the FAA inspecter passed and issued a
new air worthiness certificate. FAA also wants me to have a pilot fly
off ten hours. I am a student pilot so I was not able do so.
Jerry Novak
Pulaski, WI
N299JK
Message 23
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| Subject: | Elevator Gap Seal Test Report |
On Fri, January 30, 2009 7:28 am, kirk hull wrote:
> Does anybody have pictures of the gap seal installation?
I too would be interested in seeing photos. I'm interested in details of shape,
overlap and what happens to the slack when you run neutral or down elevator.
Does the slack start to peel a tiny bit on either the stabilizer or the elevator
with
dirt and debris sticking to the small exposed bit of adhesive?
Which way is better to put them on - leading edge on top or bottom of the stabilizer?
I assume this is determined by which elevator position you want when the gap seal
is
tight and is determined by position.
Pictures would really help me see what's being done too.
--
Paul A. Franz
Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT
Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP
Bellevue WA
425.241.1618 Cell
Message 24
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| Subject: | Elevator Gap Seal Test Report |
John,
A tape that I really like is sold for plastic covers or repairs on
greenhouses. It stays flexible, the sun doesn't affect it at all as far as
I can see and it is easy to take off. I used it for gap seal and for
covering the hole in the top of the wind screen where the front wing pivot
pin comes out.
Randy
Series 5/7 912S Warpdrive taper tip
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Bonewitz
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 7:54 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report
Today I spent about an hour fashioning a make-shift gap seal for my
elevator. I decided to first make a temporary seal out of duct tape - I mean
speed tape :) to test its effectiveness. What I ended up with looked so good
(even in silver) that I wish it weren't temporary.
Installation was real easy. I attached about a half inch of the tape to the
trailing edge of the stabilizer and folded it forward, laying it out on top
of the stab, sticky side up. I then attached another piece of tape on top of
the first, face down, forming a double thick layer. I then folded the tape
back over the top of the elevator and pushed it through the hinge gap,
attaching it to the bottom leading edge of the elevator, making sure the
elevator was full up so it stretched the tape taught. I made up three strips
for each half of the stab so I could stay clear of hinges and hardware.
It looked good, but would it stay on in flight? I envisioned taking off and
having the tower announce to the world that I had some sort of sliver
streamer ("looks like duct tape") trailing behind my plane - That kind of
embarrassment, like coming out of the men's room with a streamer of toilet
paper stuck to your shoe. Fortunately, that didn't happen.
After over an hour airborne all was well. But how did it handle? Well, one
thing I learned is that even with as much experience as I have in this
aircraft, detecting a small nuance of change is difficult (at least for me).
In hindsight, I probably should have flown right before I made the
modification. Today, the air was cold and the wind was light and variable -
quite a change from what we normally experience in North Texas. It's
difficult to compare this flight to the myriad of others I've made in
drastically different conditions. I can't say it made a big difference, but
I can say it sure didn't hurt. As I spend more time with it and get some
3-pointers-on-grass behind me, I should know more. The main point I'd like
to pass on is that when you make a mod like this, fly the airplane right
before you install it. You'll be glad you did.
Question. What should I replace the duct tape with? One thought was to
purchase some vinyl sign material (the stuff they cut letters out of to put
on banners or vehicles) pre-cut to the width I need. Though not as thick as
duct tape, it is strong and should hold up to the elements. Any other
suggestions?
John Bonewitz
Kitfox 5
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: 2009 Ski Plane Fly-in photos |
Hey Bob, do you supply warm lotion with your rubs?
I saw that site yesterday while perusing the EAA site on another
matter. Yeah, it made me feel bad not to be able to show those
(mostly) spam cans that Kitfox's fly skis too, but it wasn't in the
cards...maybe a Thursday lift-off next year.
I gotta disagree with you on the "homebuilt ski designs"...or at
least what I saw in the pictures were mostly Federals, or very good
knockoffs, with at least 2 pairs of Slickairs. I only saw 3 pairs
that looked homebuilt, and those were #9 (maybe...looks like a short
Federal), 12, and 22. Even 22 smacks of a production ski, but I could
be wrong. The Slickairs are (at least) numbers 11 and 13.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
New skis done and flying
On Jan 30, 2009, at 11:47 AM, Bob Brennan wrote:
> <matronics@bob.brennan.name>
>
> For those who don't get the EAA e-Hotline newsletter - here's a
> link to the
> recent Oshkosh fly-in photos.
> http://www.eaa.org/apps/galleries/gallery.aspx?ID=149
>
> No I did not attend but I thought Lynn might want to see what he
> missed...
> not rubbing it in Lynn, all the best of intentions, and there's some
> interesting homebuilt ski designs pictured. I'm betting that the
> wife of the
> pilot in picture #22 is wondering why her automatic garage door
> opener isn't
> working while her hubby is away! ;-)
>
> Bob Brennan - N717GB
> ELSA Repairman, inspection rated
> 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
> Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
> Wrightsville Pa
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report |
At 06:54 PM 1/29/2009, you wrote:
>What should I replace the duct tape with? One thought was to
>purchase some vinyl sign material (the stuff they cut letters out of
>to put on banners or vehicles) pre-cut to the width I need. Though
>not as thick as duct tape, it is strong and should hold up to the
>elements. Any other suggestions?
I use clear heavy duty packing tape. You could also look on
www.sailrite.com for colored sail repair tape. I found the gap seal
made a significant difference, but in an insignificant configuration.
When I 3-point full flaps I can't get the tailwheel on the ground
first without the gap seal. With- it's easy.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 27
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| Subject: | Elevator Gap Seal Test Report |
Twelve years ago I installed gap seals using adhesive shelf liner from Walm
art, following the same proceedure described of overlapping edges. I have h
ad no lifting of the edges, deterioration or cracking.
John Kerr
Classic IV,912, 800 hours
----- Original Message -----
From: Randy Daughenbaugh
Sent: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 17:56:46 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report
John,
A tape that I really like is sold for
plastic covers or repairs on greenhouses. It stays flexible, the sun doesn
=99t
affect it at all as far as I can see and it is easy to take off. I used it
for gap seal and for covering the
hole in the top of the wind screen where the front wing pivot pin comes out
.
Randy
Series 5/7 912S Warpdrive
taper tip
From:
owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@mat
ronics.com]
On Behalf Of John Bonewitz
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009
7:54 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Elevator Gap
Seal Test Report
Today I spent about an hour fashioning a make-shift gap seal for my
elevator. I decided to first make a temporary seal out of duct tape - I mea
n
speed tape :) to test its effectiveness. What I ended up with looked so goo
d
(even in silver) that I wish it weren't temporary.
Installation was real easy. I attached about a half inch of the tape to the
trailing edge of the stabilizer and folded it forward, laying it out on top
of
the stab, sticky side up. I then attached another piece of tape on top of t
he
first, face down, forming a double thick layer. I then folded the tape back
over the top of the elevator and pushed it through the hinge gap, attaching
it
to the bottom leading edge of the elevator, making sure the elevator was fu
ll
up so it stretched the tape taught. I made up three strips for each half of
the
stab so I could stay clear of hinges and hardware.
It looked good, but would it stay on in flight? I envisioned taking off and
having the tower announce to the world that I had some sort of sliver strea
mer
("looks like duct tape") trailing behind my plane - That kind of
embarrassment, like coming out of the men's room with a streamer of toilet
paper stuck to your shoe. Fortunately, that didn't happen.
After over an hour airborne all was well. But how did it handle? Well, one
thing I learned is that even with as much experience as I have in this
aircraft, detecting a small nuance of change is difficult (at least for me)
. In
hindsight, I probably should have flown right before I made the modificatio
n. Today,
the air was cold and the wind was light and variable - quite a change from
what
we normally experience in North Texas. It's
difficult to compare this flight to the myriad of others I've made in
drastically different conditions. I can't say it made a big difference, but
I
can say it sure didn't hurt. As I spend more time with it and get some
3-pointers-on-grass behind me, I should know more. The main point I'd like
to
pass on is that when you make a mod like this, fly the airplane right befor
e
you install it. You'll be glad you did.
Question. What should I replace the duct tape with? One thought was to purc
hase
some vinyl sign material (the stuff they cut letters out of to put on banne
rs
or vehicles) pre-cut to the width I need. Though not as thick as duct tape,
it
is strong and should hold up to the elements. Any other suggestions?
John Bonewitz
Kitfox 5
- The Kitfox-List Email Forum ---> http://www.matronics.com/Nav
igator?Kitfox-List - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -http://forums.matr
onics.com - List Contribution Web Site -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report |
Why not just use a piece of PolyFiber attached with Polytack to seal the gap ???
It would be permanent, easy to do, and look good ! Much better than tape.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227727#227727
Message 29
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| Subject: | 2009 Ski Plane Fly-in photos |
Rubs are complementary, ribs will cost you though, especially if you want
them with hot sauce!
Obviously you know your ski manufacturers, but I still think whoever makes
#22 must make overhead garage doors and aircraft skis as a sideline. Or
maybe the ski is really a garage door repair kit relabelled ya think? ;-)
<rib>
Uh oh, I think I've given him an idea for the next Matteson Custom Ski...
<end rib>
Do not archive
Bob Brennan - N717GB
ELSA Repairman, inspection rated
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson
Sent: 30 January 2009 1:59 pm
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 2009 Ski Plane Fly-in photos
Hey Bob, do you supply warm lotion with your rubs?
I saw that site yesterday while perusing the EAA site on another
matter. Yeah, it made me feel bad not to be able to show those
(mostly) spam cans that Kitfox's fly skis too, but it wasn't in the
cards...maybe a Thursday lift-off next year.
I gotta disagree with you on the "homebuilt ski designs"...or at
least what I saw in the pictures were mostly Federals, or very good
knockoffs, with at least 2 pairs of Slickairs. I only saw 3 pairs
that looked homebuilt, and those were #9 (maybe...looks like a short
Federal), 12, and 22. Even 22 smacks of a production ski, but I could
be wrong. The Slickairs are (at least) numbers 11 and 13.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
New skis done and flying
On Jan 30, 2009, at 11:47 AM, Bob Brennan wrote:
> <matronics@bob.brennan.name>
>
> For those who don't get the EAA e-Hotline newsletter - here's a
> link to the
> recent Oshkosh fly-in photos.
> http://www.eaa.org/apps/galleries/gallery.aspx?ID=149
>
> No I did not attend but I thought Lynn might want to see what he
> missed...
> not rubbing it in Lynn, all the best of intentions, and there's some
> interesting homebuilt ski designs pictured. I'm betting that the
> wife of the
> pilot in picture #22 is wondering why her automatic garage door
> opener isn't
> working while her hubby is away! ;-)
>
> Bob Brennan - N717GB
> ELSA Repairman, inspection rated
> 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
> Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
> Wrightsville Pa
>
>
Message 30
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akflyer wrote:
>
>
> Mike, I am a little slow here in Alaska, who knows maybe the cold really does
effect the brain, however, your first post says spacing is not critical, then
you later post and say it is. What are the chances of getting you to consult
with yourself and see if the two of you can come up with the same answer. Get
back to us so we know which one to listen to.
>
>
My second post says PLACEMENT is critical, NOT spacing. In the first post I explained
pretty well how the total number of VG's is important, and how they should
be placed between the ribs, rather than trying for an exact spacing to equal
exactly 100 VG. Seems you did not read what I had to say very well.
On second thought, I think you understood perfectly what I was saying. You just
still seem a little bitter over the 26 foot wing kitfox thread, its obvious
that you are overly anxious to try to discredit my posts in any way possible,
even if you have to misrepresent what I posted to do it. I for one am over whatever
disagreement we may have had in the last thread. Try not to be so bitter
and get over it.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227732#227732
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: X-Plane test |
X Plane is a fun way to try those " Worst Case Scenarios " that you would not want
to do in real life ! I like simulators, have used computer flight simulators
since the first ones came out on the Commodore back in the early 80 's [Shocked]
The only reason I bought computers in the early years before the Internet
was for the flight sims :)
Maybe a better way of saying what I said in my earlier post is: If I were going
to go to the work and expense of a physical modification to my airplane, I would
base it on sound aerodynamic theory and research of similar modifications
people had done rather than on a simulation result.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227739#227739
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: air worthiness |
I'll bet if you were willing to pay a DAR to do that inspection,
you'd have saved a few months. I'm not positive about this, but those
guys are motivated (to earn money), and the FAA is not.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
New skis done and flying
do not archive
On Jan 30, 2009, at 12:44 PM, jlno7@aim.com wrote:
>
> I to had problems getting an original certificate. I had a copy of
> the original when I bought the Kitfox but the A@P and CFI wouldn't
> consider flying it without the original. I called the FAA office
> and they wanted to inspect it before issuing a certificate. Two
> months later they inspected it and found several repairs that were
> needed I did the repairs and two months later the FAA inspecter
> passed and issued a new air worthiness certificate. FAA also wants
> me to have a pilot fly off ten hours. I am a student pilot so I
> was not able do so.
>
>
> Jerry Novak
> Pulaski, WI
> N299JK
>
>
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report |
If you really want to drive yourself nuts over this gap sealing
issue, try the "X" method instead of the "Z" method. We used the "X"
method on our model planes.
The "Z" method has been explained....from under (or over) the
trailing portion of the hort. stab, to over (or under) the leading
portion of the elevator, forming a "Z" when view from the side. The
"X" method is just alternating the placement of lengths of 2" wide
tape, over and under, then under and over, etc., until the gap is
sealed. In the "X" method, you make strips of tape that go, say, 2"
wide and from front to back, instead of the "Z" method where you run
the tape from side of elevator to hinge, then hinge to hinge, and so on.
The jury is still out on whether this is a good method or not...how
'bout some thoughts?
As an aside, when this method is used in model planes, no hinge is
needed, as the plastic covering material itself is used for the "gap
seals" and in using the "X" method, the elevator operates freely
without the use of hinges...not recommended for "live-in" airplanes.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
New skis done and flying
On Jan 30, 2009, at 12:53 PM, Paul Franz - Merlin GT wrote:
> <paul@eucleides.com>
>
> On Fri, January 30, 2009 7:28 am, kirk hull wrote:
>> Does anybody have pictures of the gap seal installation?
>
> I too would be interested in seeing photos. I'm interested in
> details of shape,
> overlap and what happens to the slack when you run neutral or down
> elevator.
>
> Does the slack start to peel a tiny bit on either the stabilizer or
> the elevator with
> dirt and debris sticking to the small exposed bit of adhesive?
>
> Which way is better to put them on - leading edge on top or bottom
> of the stabilizer?
> I assume this is determined by which elevator position you want
> when the gap seal is
> tight and is determined by position.
>
> Pictures would really help me see what's being done too.
>
> --
> Paul A. Franz
> Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT
> Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP
> Bellevue WA
> 425.241.1618 Cell
>
>
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| Subject: | Video in High Definition: Flying around South Florida ... |
Here is a video of my wife and I flying around South Florida in my Kolb. There
is a Kitfox in this video though ! As always, the default video quality of
You Tube is HORRIBLE [Evil or Very Mad] But if you click on " Watch In HD
" that is in blue at the bottom right of he video, and then click on " Watch In
Full Screen ", the video will be large and the quality very good !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNNdSS7jcgY
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227747#227747
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report |
Permanent, yes, but I'm not sure how easy it would be to do. For starters
I'd need some fabric. Haven't seen any of that laying around for about nine
years. I would also have to paint it. No, I think tape will do the trick. I
just need something more durable than duct tape.
Thanks
John
On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 2:18 PM, JetPilot <orcabonita@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Why not just use a piece of PolyFiber attached with Polytack to seal the
> gap ??? It would be permanent, easy to do, and look good ! Much better
> than tape.
>
> Mike
>
> --------
> "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have
> !!!
>
> Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227727#227727
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report |
Hey John,
-
I used "Storm-King" weather proof tape from local hardware. Comes clear in
2" width,-applied-by overlapping 2 pieces (sticky side up against stick
y side down) 1" and installed in an "S" configuration. It's made to be used
outdoors so it lasts and lasts. 3 years in, no sign of cracking or drying
out.
Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1 w/ clutch
--- On Thu, 1/29/09, John Bonewitz <bonewitz@gmail.com> wrote:
From: John Bonewitz <bonewitz@gmail.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report
Today I spent about an hour fashioning a make-shift gap seal for my elevato
r. I decided to first make a temporary seal out of duct tape - I mean speed
tape :) to test its effectiveness. What I ended up with looked so good (ev
en in silver) that I wish it weren't temporary.
Installation was real easy. I attached about a half inch of the tape to the
trailing edge of the stabilizer and folded it forward, laying it out on to
p of the stab, sticky side up. I then attached another piece of tape on top
of the first, face down, forming a double thick layer. I then folded the t
ape back over the top of the elevator and pushed it through the hinge gap,
attaching it to the bottom leading edge of the elevator, making sure the el
evator was full up so it stretched the tape taught. I made up three strips
for each half of the stab so I could stay clear of hinges and hardware.
It looked good, but would it stay on in flight? I envisioned taking off and
having the tower announce to the world that I had some sort of sliver stre
amer ("looks like duct tape") trailing behind my plane - That kind of embar
rassment, like coming out of the men's room with a streamer of toilet paper
stuck to your shoe. Fortunately, that didn't happen.
After over an hour airborne all was well. But how did it handle? Well, one
thing I learned is that even with as much experience as I have in this airc
raft, detecting a small nuance of change is difficult (at least for me). In
hindsight, I probably should have flown right before I made the modificati
on. Today, the air was cold and the wind was light and variable - quite a c
hange from what we normally experience in North Texas. It's difficult to co
mpare this flight to the myriad of others I've made in drastically differen
t conditions. I can't say it made a big difference, but I can say it sure d
idn't hurt. As I spend more time with it and get some 3-pointers-on-grass b
ehind me, I should know more. The main point I'd like to pass on is that wh
en you make a mod like this, fly the airplane right before you install it.
You'll be glad you did.
Question. What should I replace the duct tape with? One thought was to purc
hase some vinyl sign material (the stuff they cut letters out of to put on
banners or vehicles) pre-cut to the width I need. Though not as thick as du
ct tape, it is strong and should hold up to the elements. Any other suggest
ions?
John Bonewitz
Kitfox 5
=0A=0A=0A
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report |
Some Great ideas on Gap Seal materials. Thanks to all of you.
I remember the Ski Tape conversation from years ago. Couldn't find it then.
Can't find it now. Figured it was a Texas thing. I really like the idea of
the shelf liner. Easy to get, and cheap. If it's lasted 12 years, that's
good enough for me! The 3-M material is probably the very best way to go.
Their products have never let me down, but I'm sure it will be expensive.
The good news is that the mod is so easy to do that if one thing doesn't
work, I can just try another.
Someone gave me a roll of heavy, semi-clear tape that they bought from
Spruce. It was pretty rubbery and very strong, but even one layer of it was
milky. I never applied it because of this. I think I'm going to start with
the shelf liner.
I never intended to keep the duct tape on precisely because of the issue
some of you described. When it drys out, it's a mess. I almost pulled it off
after I flew yesterday, but since the plane is in a hangar, I figured I'd
wait a little longer.
When I re-do it, I'll take pictures for you who are interested. How are you
guys handling pictures on the list? Are you just sending them as
attachments? or do I need to link to a Flickr account or something?
Thanks again,
John Bonewitz
Series 5
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report |
Guy, I thought about using packing tape, but wondered how it would hold up
to UV. This Sailrite.com ripstop nylon repair tape looks pretty interesting.
It's not meant as a permanent repair, so I don't know how it would hold up
over time, but it's only $7.50 a roll. It also looks pretty thin (you can
actually see though it). Two layers ought to be strong as all get out, but
lightweight and flexible too.
John Bonewitz
Series 5
On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 1:41 PM, Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com> wrote:
>
> At 06:54 PM 1/29/2009, you wrote:
>
>> What should I replace the duct tape with? One thought was to purchase some
>> vinyl sign material (the stuff they cut letters out of to put on banners or
>> vehicles) pre-cut to the width I need. Though not as thick as duct tape, it
>> is strong and should hold up to the elements. Any other suggestions?
>>
>
> I use clear heavy duty packing tape. You could also look on
> www.sailrite.com for colored sail repair tape. I found the gap seal made a
> significant difference, but in an insignificant configuration. When I
> 3-point full flaps I can't get the tailwheel on the ground first without the
> gap seal. With- it's easy.
>
>
> Guy Buchanan
> San Diego, CA
> K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report |
Paul,
Regarding placement of the tape. I went from top of stab. to bottom of
elevator, but in reality, the tape edge starts about where the radius of the
trailing edge tube begins. The tape really doesn't show on top of the stab.
In fact if it were color matched, it would barely show. Whether to start on
the bottom rather than the top? Probably doesn't matter.
John
As to whether any exposed adhesive would attract dirt? I don't really think
it will be a problem. I suppose it kind of depends on the tape you use.
I promise I'll get some pictures for you guys.
John Bonewitz
Series 5
On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 11:53 AM, Paul Franz - Merlin GT <paul@eucleides.com
> wrote:
> paul@eucleides.com>
>
> On Fri, January 30, 2009 7:28 am, kirk hull wrote:
> > Does anybody have pictures of the gap seal installation?
>
> I too would be interested in seeing photos. I'm interested in details of
> shape,
> overlap and what happens to the slack when you run neutral or down
> elevator.
>
> Does the slack start to peel a tiny bit on either the stabilizer or the
> elevator with
> dirt and debris sticking to the small exposed bit of adhesive?
>
> Which way is better to put them on - leading edge on top or bottom of the
> stabilizer?
> I assume this is determined by which elevator position you want when the
> gap seal is
> tight and is determined by position.
>
> Pictures would really help me see what's being done too.
>
> --
> Paul A. Franz
> Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT
> Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP
> Bellevue WA
> 425.241.1618 Cell
>
>
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: 2009 Ski Plane Fly-in photos |
#22 definitely shows some "tinkeritis" that's for sure, including the
garage door springs...come to think of it, I had my rudder cable fork
ends swaged by a garage door company.
I'm also thinking that if one of those springs broke, he's gonna have
a "tuck" to remember. It looks like the safety cable runs through the
springs, but that ain't gonna mean s......quat, yeah that's it,
squat, when the tip falls away and there's no backup to pull the tip
back to flying position. Call me chicken, but those 2-3 extra pounds
are very comforting to me.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
New skis done and flying
On Jan 30, 2009, at 3:39 PM, Bob Brennan wrote:
> <matronics@bob.brennan.name>
>
> Rubs are complementary, ribs will cost you though, especially if
> you want
> them with hot sauce!
>
> Obviously you know your ski manufacturers, but I still think
> whoever makes
> #22 must make overhead garage doors and aircraft skis as a
> sideline. Or
> maybe the ski is really a garage door repair kit relabelled ya
> think? ;-)
>
> <rib>
> Uh oh, I think I've given him an idea for the next Matteson Custom
> Ski...
> <end rib>
>
> Do not archive
>
> Bob Brennan - N717GB
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report |
If you want stickier...not sure of durable...and uglier, use Gorilla
tape. You will be cussing just trying to get it off the roll!
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
New skis done and flying
do not archive
On Jan 30, 2009, at 5:06 PM, John Bonewitz wrote:
> Permanent, yes, but I'm not sure how easy it would be to do. For
> starters I'd need some fabric. Haven't seen any of that laying
> around for about nine years. I would also have to paint it. No, I
> think tape will do the trick. I just need something more durable
> than duct tape.
>
> Thanks
> John
>
> On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 2:18 PM, JetPilot <orcabonita@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Why not just use a piece of PolyFiber attached with Polytack to
> seal the gap ??? It would be permanent, easy to do, and look
> good ! Much better than tape.
>
> Mike
>
> --------
> "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you
> could have !!!
>
> Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227727#227727
>
>
> ==========
> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
> ==========
> MS -
> k">http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> e -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
> www.matronics.com/contribution _-
> ===========================================================
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: posting photos - best way... |
On Fri, January 30, 2009 2:53 pm, John Bonewitz wrote:
clip clip
> When I re-do it, I'll take pictures for you who are interested. How are you
> guys handling pictures on the list? Are you just sending them as
> attachments? or do I need to link to a Flickr account or something?
The best way is to use the forum interface to post your photos then when it goes
out
to the mail list, they'll be referenced as URLs. Saves a lot on mail overhead.
Pretty simple, go to the forums link:
<http://forums.matronics.com/>
Register if you haven't already done so, select the Kitfox Forum, then compose
what
you want and you'll have the opportunity to attach files and descriptions.
Tip:
When you register, completely fill out the form and select a username that you
want to
be known by, rather than your e-mail address or a part of it.
Once registered, you can view and post on any Matronics forum and you have the
option
of getting postings e-mailed or not. You'll find this is probably a better way
than
posting to the list. But you can have it both ways, with or without mail.
--
Paul A. Franz
Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT
Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP
Bellevue WA
425.241.1618 Cell
Message 43
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JetPilot wrote:
>
> akflyer wrote:
> >
> >
> > Mike, I am a little slow here in Alaska, who knows maybe the cold really does
effect the brain, however, your first post says spacing is not critical, then
you later post and say it is. What are the chances of getting you to consult
with yourself and see if the two of you can come up with the same answer.
Get back to us so we know which one to listen to.
> >
> >
>
>
> My second post says PLACEMENT is critical, NOT spacing. In the first post I
explained pretty well how the total number of VG's is important, and how they
should be placed between the ribs, rather than trying for an exact spacing to
equal exactly 100 VG. Seems you did not read what I had to say very well.
>
> On second thought, I think you understood perfectly what I was saying. You just
still seem a little bitter over the 26 foot wing kitfox thread, its obvious
that you are overly anxious to try to discredit my posts in any way possible,
even if you have to misrepresent what I posted to do it. I for one am over
whatever disagreement we may have had in the last thread. Try not to be so bitter
and get over it.
>
> Mike
dont flatter yourself, I am not bitter... far from it, I just have a warped sense
of humor, thats all..
Off to go fly the short wing death trap.
snake man.... out........
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1260
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
hander outer of humorless darwin awards
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227774#227774
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| Subject: | Re: Video in High Definition: Flying around South Florida |
...
Really nice video and I really like the Kolb. There is nothing wrong
with your eyes either. You have a mucho fine looking lady. That's as
good as it gets.
Dee Young
N345DY
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: JetPilot<mailto:orcabonita@hotmail.com>
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com<mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 2:54 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Video in High Definition: Flying around South
Florida ...
<orcabonita@hotmail.com<mailto:orcabonita@hotmail.com>>
Here is a video of my wife and I flying around South Florida in my
Kolb. There is a Kitfox in this video though ! As always, the default
video quality of You Tube is HORRIBLE [Evil or Very Mad] But if you
click on " Watch In HD " that is in blue at the bottom right of he
video, and then click on " Watch In Full Screen ", the video will be
large and the quality very good !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNNdSS7jcgY<http://www.youtube.com/watch
?v=hNNdSS7jcgY>
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as
you could have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227747#227747<http://forums
.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227747#227747>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List<http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?Kitfox-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 45
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report |
Lynn:
do you have a picture or drawing of the X system?
Second inbibation is starting to cut in and I'm having a problem visualizing your
X setup.
Noel
--- On Fri, 1/30/09, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net> wrote:
From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report
Received: Friday, January 30, 2009, 6:11 PM
If you really want to drive yourself nuts over this gap sealing issue, try the
"X" method instead of the "Z" method. We used the
"X" method on our model planes.
The "Z" method has been explained....from under (or over) the
trailing portion of the hort. stab, to over (or under) the leading portion of
the elevator, forming a "Z" when view from the side. The "X"
method is just alternating the placement of lengths of 2" wide tape, over
and under, then under and over, etc., until the gap is sealed. In the
"X" method, you make strips of tape that go, say, 2" wide and
from front to back, instead of the "Z" method where you run the tape
from side of elevator to hinge, then hinge to hinge, and so on.
The jury is still out on whether this is a good method or not...how 'bout
some thoughts?
As an aside, when this method is used in model planes, no hinge is needed, as
the plastic covering material itself is used for the "gap seals" and
in using the "X" method, the elevator operates freely without the use
of hinges...not recommended for "live-in" airplanes.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
New skis done and flying
On Jan 30, 2009, at 12:53 PM, Paul Franz - Merlin GT wrote:
<paul@eucleides.com>
>
> On Fri, January 30, 2009 7:28 am, kirk hull wrote:
>> Does anybody have pictures of the gap seal installation?
>
> I too would be interested in seeing photos. I'm interested in details
of shape,
> overlap and what happens to the slack when you run neutral or down
elevator.
>
> Does the slack start to peel a tiny bit on either the stabilizer or the
elevator with
> dirt and debris sticking to the small exposed bit of adhesive?
>
> Which way is better to put them on - leading edge on top or bottom of the
stabilizer?
> I assume this is determined by which elevator position you want when the
gap seal is
> tight and is determined by position.
>
> Pictures would really help me see what's being done too.
>
> --Paul A. Franz
> Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT
> Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP
> Bellevue WA
> 425.241.1618 Cell
>
>
>
>
__________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite
sites. Download it now at
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| Subject: | Video in High Definition: Flying around South Florida |
...
I always like to see videos of flying TNX
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JetPilot
Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 6:25 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Video in High Definition: Flying around South Florida
...
Here is a video of my wife and I flying around South Florida in my Kolb.
There is a Kitfox in this video though ! As always, the default video
quality of You Tube is HORRIBLE [Evil or Very Mad] But if you click on "
Watch In HD " that is in blue at the bottom right of he video, and then
click on " Watch In Full Screen ", the video will be large and the quality
very good !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNNdSS7jcgY
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you
could have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227747#227747
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| Subject: | My Series 5 - Testing picture upload |
Just testing out the posting of photos to the forum. Here's a shot of my Series
5.
John Bonewitz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227820#227820
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/fox_at_keizer_112.jpg
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| Subject: | Re: posting photos - best way... |
Thanks, I'll give it a try.
John
On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 6:18 PM, Paul Franz - Merlin GT
<paul@eucleides.com>wrote:
> paul@eucleides.com>
>
> On Fri, January 30, 2009 2:53 pm, John Bonewitz wrote:
>
> clip clip
>
> > When I re-do it, I'll take pictures for you who are interested. How are
> you
> > guys handling pictures on the list? Are you just sending them as
> > attachments? or do I need to link to a Flickr account or something?
>
> The best way is to use the forum interface to post your photos then when it
> goes out
> to the mail list, they'll be referenced as URLs. Saves a lot on mail
> overhead.
>
> Pretty simple, go to the forums link:
>
> <http://forums.matronics.com/>
>
> Register if you haven't already done so, select the Kitfox Forum, then
> compose what
> you want and you'll have the opportunity to attach files and descriptions.
>
> Tip:
>
> When you register, completely fill out the form and select a username that
> you want to
> be known by, rather than your e-mail address or a part of it.
>
> Once registered, you can view and post on any Matronics forum and you have
> the option
> of getting postings e-mailed or not. You'll find this is probably a better
> way than
> posting to the list. But you can have it both ways, with or without mail.
>
> --
> Paul A. Franz
> Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT
> Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP
> Bellevue WA
> 425.241.1618 Cell
>
>
Message 49
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akflyer wrote:
>
>
> dont flatter yourself, I am not bitter... far from it, I just have a warped sense
of humor, thats all..
>
> Off to go fly the short wing death trap.
>
> snake man.... out........
Thats good to hear Leonard ! We all disagree in the threads sometimes, and as
far as I am concerned, any hard feelings fade into the past with the thread.
I never imagined the nickname would stick, but thats cool to.
Have Fun,
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227833#227833
Message 50
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report |
You can use that, but why not take 2 pieces sewn together at the middle and
dope one Vee to stab and other to elevator.
Or use sail fabric that is air tight from start
Jan
----- Original Message -----
From: "JetPilot" <orcabonita@hotmail.com>
Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 9:18 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report
>
> Why not just use a piece of PolyFiber attached with Polytack to seal the
> gap ??? It would be permanent, easy to do, and look good ! Much better
> than tape.
>
> Mike
>
> --------
> "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you
> could have !!!
>
> Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227727#227727
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
> signature database 3814 (20090131) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
>
>
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