Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:16 AM - control stick (charles cook)
2. 06:33 AM - Re: Re: New issue, turtle deck security (Jim_and_Lucy Chuk)
3. 07:32 AM - Re: Adjusting control stick? (Tom Jones)
4. 09:08 AM - Re: New issue, turtle deck security (akflyer)
5. 10:01 AM - Re: Re: New issue, turtle deck security (Lynn Matteson)
6. 10:10 AM - Re: Re: New issue, turtle deck security (Lynn Matteson)
7. 11:14 AM - Re: Adjusting control stick? (Lynn Matteson)
8. 11:34 AM - Seasonal change reminder (Lynn Matteson)
9. 11:37 AM - Re: Greenhouse construction (Ed Gray)
10. 01:10 PM - Re: Re: Greenhouse construction (Lynn Matteson)
11. 03:41 PM - Re: Re: Greenhouse construction (Lowell FITT)
12. 03:41 PM - Re: Greenhouse construction (Tom Jones)
13. 03:45 PM - Re: Adjusting control stick? (Ken Potter)
14. 04:49 PM - Re: Re: Greenhouse construction (patrick reilly)
15. 05:58 PM - Re: New issue, turtle deck security (WurlyBird)
16. 07:42 PM - Re: Re: Greenhouse construction (Lynn Matteson)
17. 08:01 PM - Re: Re: New issue, turtle deck security (Lynn Matteson)
18. 09:19 PM - Fuel sight tube material? (Cwehner)
19. 09:30 PM - Re: Re: New issue, turtle deck security (Jim_and_Lucy Chuk)
20. 10:09 PM - Old Tygon (clemwehner)
Message 1
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I too would like to hear solutions to this. My arm is almost straight fwd.
when in level flight.
Charles Cook
N363KF -582
ATL=0A=0A=0A
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| Subject: | Re: New issue, turtle deck security |
On my Avid B the lexan was fastened with large headed aluminum pop rivits.
It was that way when I got it and
had the same windshield for years with no cracking around the rivits. My M
K IV was fastened with sheetmetal screws when I bought it and that worked o
key also=2C although=2C one screw had a habit of trying to back out over ti
me. Last summer when I installed the lexan on my Kitfox 4 kit=2C I used 1/
2" X #6
SS machine screws with nyloc nuts. I had some pan head screws allready tha
t I used=2C but if I would have needed to buy some=2C I would have bought t
he truss head type screws as those heads are much bigger in diameter. Just
remember that one needs to make sure the hole in the lexan is larger than
the rivit or screw to allow for expansion of the lexan without cracking. S
eems like lots of different ways to fasten a windshield that work. Jim Chu
k Avid MK IV. MN
Kitfox-List: Re: New issue=2C turtle deck securityTo: kitfox-list@matronic
s.com
James=2C
On my Model 2 the lexan overlaps the turtledeck about 5/8". Never had any p
roblems with it but it is attached to butt ribs and rear carry-through tube
as specified. Currently attached with sheet metal screws every 2 inches bu
t when I replace the lexan (next Winter probably) I'm considering rivnuts a
nd machine screws in the butt ribs.
Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1 w/clutch--- On Sun=2C 2/15/09=2C WurlyBird <james.
t.trizzino@us.army.mil> wrote:
From: WurlyBird <james.t.trizzino@us.army.mil>Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: New
issue=2C turtle deck securityTo: kitfox-list@matronics.comDate: Sunday=2C
"
<james.t.trizzino@us.army.mil>
I re-read it two more times=2C everything is indicating that the minimum re
quired
1 1/4" is measured from the front of FC-3. Do you have 1 1/4" of
lexan that overlaps the turtle deck? Can I get a quick poll on this from a
few
people? I can certainly see that the extra would help keep everything toge
ther.
--------
James
Kitfox 3 / 582 / GSC prop
4 hrs of instruction and climbing (I solo tomorrow)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230377#230377
Attachments:
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Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Adjusting control stick? |
> Hey guys, quick question. The stick in my plane seems to be quite far forward,
even when in straight and level flihgt. It feels like I need longer arms to
reach it. There appears to be a way to adjust the stick position, but I am not
sure if I should. I would like to pull it back a little, but I don't want to
limit the travel of the elevator upards. It seems if I adjust it, it will hit
the seat/cushions sooner, limiting elevator travel.
>
> What is the best way to change this?
>
> Andrew,
> 815TL, Kitfox II, Rotax 582-C
Andrew, the elevator control adjustments should be made so that the rod end at
the rear of the elevator tube contacts the vertical fin tail post at the same
time the stick hits the seat.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230657#230657
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| Subject: | Re: New issue, turtle deck security |
WurlyBird wrote:
> Hey Lynn, are those 6-32 anchor nuts you used? How did you go about attaching
them? I have ordered a new piece of lexan and I think it might be best to attach
it like you did since if i ever work out all the bugs I might keep this
plane for a while.
Why not just drill the rivets out, hold it in place and drill through the root
ribs and use the windshield you have? You could have that one fixed and flying
in a couple hours.
I have replaced mine twice.. once when I first got it and once after the first
flight... well and back half after the third flight due to a gas leak out of the
header tank vent that Fed up the skylight. Took about 20 minutes to drill
the rivets out, an hour to cut new windshield and about an hour to put the new
one back on with 2 of us. Is your screen cracking or is there another reason
to change it to a new one?
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1260
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
hander outer of humorless darwin awards
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230689#230689
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| Subject: | Re: New issue, turtle deck security |
I'm pretty sure they were 10-32's...yeah, way overkill...no wait, now
I remember why I went with 10-32's..(drum roll)....because the heads
were larger in proportion to the body size (of the AN-526 machine
screws), therefore I could open up the holes in the skylight to that
that LP Aeroplastics said they should be, and still be comfortable
that the head was going to be fully covering the hole. For some
reason...at that time...I felt that a 6-32 or 8-32 wouldn't do that.
I used the AN-526 machine screws and K1000 anchor nuts/nut plates.
This picture I sent yesterday shows the flat head AN426 solid rivets
that I used. I had to order about 20 5/32"...black...clecos to grip
the anchor nuts so I didn't have to use a bolt through the anchor nut
for temporary holding.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
New skis done and flying
On Feb 16, 2009, at 6:40 PM, WurlyBird wrote:
> <james.t.trizzino@us.army.mil>
>
> Hey Lynn, are those 6-32 anchor nuts you used? How did you go
> about attaching them? I have ordered a new piece of lexan and I
> think it might be best to attach it like you did since if i ever
> work out all the bugs I might keep this plane for a while.
>
> --------
> James
> Kitfox 3 / 582 / GSC prop
> 4 hrs of instruction and climbing (I solo tomorrow)
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230579#230579
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: New issue, turtle deck security |
I'm wondering how safe it would be to just install a machine screw in
every other space between the existing rivets?
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
New skis done and flying
do not archive
On Feb 16, 2009, at 5:32 PM, Guy Buchanan wrote:
>
> At 12:25 PM 2/16/2009, you wrote:
>> As you can see in the pictures the green house is secured to
>> aluminum strips along the top of the butt ribs. From top to
>> bottom it goes; rivet, nylon washer, lexan, self adhesive felt
>> strip, aluminum bar, other end of rivet. This sits on another
>> strip of adhesive backed felt on top of the cap strip.
>
> Man that's weird. And I'd say it's definitely what caused
> the lift. If your butt ribs aren't yet drilled you could probably
> get away with re-using the skylight. Just set the Lexan down onto
> the felt on top of the butt ribs and match drill. Be careful,
> though. I had a lot of trouble getting the nut plates to sit
> perpendicular to the skylight due to the way the butt ribs were
> made. There was a bit of a fillet between the rib cap and rib. I
> had to Dremel a little flat pad for each one. It was a real pain
> with the ribs already in place.
>
>
> Guy Buchanan
> San Diego, CA
> K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Adjusting control stick? |
I adjusted mine as suggested by others, until the stick almost bumped
against the seat pan itself when at full up elevator, then did the
rest with an Oregon Aero seat cushion and back cushion....not
kidding. I'm short, and needed the elevation, and the back cushion
with lumbar support made my "arms longer". : )
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
New skis done and flying
On Feb 16, 2009, at 2:20 PM, 815TL wrote:
>
> Hey guys, quick question. The stick in my plane seems to be quite
> far forward, even when in straight and level flihgt. It feels like
> I need longer arms to reach it. There appears to be a way to
> adjust the stick position, but I am not sure if I should. I would
> like to pull it back a little, but I don't want to limit the travel
> of the elevator upards. It seems if I adjust it, it will hit the
> seat/cushions sooner, limiting elevator travel.
>
> What is the best way to change this?
>
> Andrew,
> 815TL, Kitfox II, Rotax 582-C
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230550#230550
>
>
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| Subject: | Seasonal change reminder |
A reminder to check those wooden props for proper torque values. I
installed a new Sensenich wood prop on Dec 11th, and on Feb 11th or
so, I re-checked the torque, and found it was half of the original
setting of 160 inch-pounds. I had put about 15 hours on the engine.
This was apparently all due to humidity changes. When I first
installed the prop, I torqued to 160"-lbs, test flew it for a half-
hour, and re-checked torque, then planned on another check at the
next oil change...25-30 hours. What tipped me off was seeing just the
faintest of faint dust marks around the periphery of the prop-drive
hub, and on the prop itself at that point. When I wiped it with a
white cloth, I knew what it was...paint dust from the prop. It had
apparently been shuckin' and jivin' a little bit, and rubbed some
paint off. You can bet I'll be checking that damn thing more often
than just at oil changes from here on out. Maybe it was partly due to
humidity changes from Florida, where it was built, to Michigan, where
the humidity is low in the winter.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
New skis done and flying
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| Subject: | RE: Greenhouse construction |
I haven't installed my lexan yet so still considering the various ideas on
securing the lexan. Is there a downside to installing 2 or 3 machine screws
thru the lexan and the center rib to prevent the lexan pulling up in flight?
Or if the CF 46 flange is deforming, why not add a rivet thru the top in one
or two places? As to securing the sides of the lexan to the butt ribs, I
think an aluminum strip on the bottom of the rib cap inner side makes more
sense. Then, why use nutplates on the curved surface? They are accessible,
so why not use nylok nuts with the truss screws. I can also see how an
aluminum bracket could be installed on the center of the carry thru tube so
that an additional camlock can be installed thru the turtledeck.
Ed Gray KII building do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kitfox-List
Digest Server
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 1:59 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List Digest: 26 Msgs - 02/16/09
*
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Kitfox-List Digest Archive
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Total Messages Posted Mon 02/16/09: 26
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:59 AM - Re: Re: New issue, turtle deck security (fox5flyer)
2. 05:04 AM - Re: what prop is the best,for a 582 (Noel Loveys)
3. 05:04 AM - Re: Re: New issue, turtle deck security (Lynn Matteson)
4. 05:31 AM - Re: what prop is the best,for a 582 (Lynn Matteson)
5. 06:42 AM - Re: Re: New issue, turtle deck security (Chuck Popenoe)
6. 06:49 AM - Re: Re: New issue, turtle deck security (Bob Brennan)
7. 07:03 AM - Brakes, tires, hubs, rotors (charles cook)
8. 07:35 AM - Re: New issue, turtle deck security (Tom Jones)
9. 07:50 AM - Re: Brakes, tires, hubs, rotors (Pete Christensen)
10. 08:59 AM - Re: Re: New issue, turtle deck security (patrick reilly)
11. 09:10 AM - Re: Adding wing tanks (AKFLYERBOB)
12. 09:37 AM - Re: New issue, turtle deck security (WurlyBird)
13. 09:39 AM - Re: Re: Adding wing tanks (Bob Brennan)
14. 10:31 AM - Re: New issue, turtle deck security (akflyer)
15. 10:31 AM - Re: Re: New issue, turtle deck security (Guy Buchanan)
16. 10:33 AM - Re: New issue, turtle deck security (akflyer)
17. 10:59 AM - Re: Re: New issue, turtle deck security (Paul Franz -
Merlin GT)
18. 11:21 AM - Adjusting control stick? (815TL)
19. 11:23 AM - Re: Re: New issue, turtle deck security (Lynn Matteson)
20. 12:27 PM - Re: New issue, turtle deck security (WurlyBird)
21. 02:18 PM - Re: Adjusting control stick? (Guy Buchanan)
22. 02:20 PM - Re: Brakes, tires, hubs, rotors (Tom Jones)
23. 02:33 PM - Re: Re: New issue, turtle deck security (Guy Buchanan)
24. 03:41 PM - Re: New issue, turtle deck security (WurlyBird)
25. 07:40 PM - Re: what prop is the best,for a 582 (Noel Loveys)
26. 08:57 PM - Re: Re: New issue, turtle deck security (Marco Menezes)
________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
Time: 03:59:19 AM PST US
From: "fox5flyer" <fox5flyer@idealwifi.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: New issue, turtle deck security
Good post, Lynn. All very good points. I had a good look at mine, a S5 and
same setup as the 3. As far as I can see there is only one thing that can
cause that leading edge to come out and that is extreme bending of the
complete turtle deck itself. That is what the long stiffeners are for and
after fooling around with mine for a few minutes, I found that it just ain't
gonna happen. Before we all start tearing things apart and reinventing the
wheel, lets first ensure there is a real inherent problem and not an
isolated incident that is based on the method of fabrication.
Personally, I feel everyone should have a good look at theirs, but I don't
think it's an issue.
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT
"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress."
- Joseph Joubert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 8:54 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: New issue, turtle deck security
>
> Perfectly clear, but is this 1-1/4" dimension really needed? The Kitfox
> seems to work ok with the 5/8" overlap, and this is the first time we've
> (I've, at least) heard of the turtledeck blowing out...or is it? Somebody
> with more time in type and on this list should be able to answer this
> question. Is there a Service Bulletin out on the Kitfox? Remember this is
> an Avid Service Bulletin. I'm not saying anything bad about Avids, just
> trying to understand why no SB on a Kitfox, if indeed there are none.
>
> Next is the history of this particular plane. Just the other day we had a
> flutter problem on this plane. Now we've got a turtledeck trying to exit
> the plane. How about thinking a bit further into this plane, and
> wondering if maybe the plane was sold because it exhibited some of these
> strange behaviors. How about a weak framework? How about a broken tube
> joint somewhere hidden from normal view that would allow the framework to
> flex? Did the new owner take the seats out, and look for any new welds,
> or broken ones? Are all the camlocks present and accounted for?...my
> plane has 9 of them holding the t'deck on...factory count. Are they
> tight? How thick is the windshield/skylight material? How many machine
> screws hold the rear of the skylight in place, or are they rivets as the
> Kitfox and the Avid drawings show? I chose to use machine screws and
> nutplates on my installation after I read of so many builders needing to
> replace windshields/skylights due to crazing/cracks, etc. That might
> account for some of the strength in that area that my plane apparently
> exhibits.
>
> Remember this is a recently sold/purchased airplane....maybe the buyer
> need to do more than kick the tires and light 'er up.
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs
> Sensenich 62x46
> Electroair direct-fire ignition system
> New skis done and flying
>
>
> On Feb 15, 2009, at 7:04 PM, Paul Franz wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, February 15, 2009 2:38 pm, akflyer wrote:
>>>
>>> marked up the PDF and reposted
>>
>> Excellent! Now this is perfectly clear. However, I must point out that
>> the markup did
>> not get distributed to the e-mail list but it appears in the forum
>> posting just fine.
>> click this link to see Leni's (Snakeman's) perfectly clear markup.
>>
>> <http://forums.matronics.com/download.php?
>> id=14596&sid=7a9dbd247008ae785633dd9eb88241c2>
>>
>>>
>>> --------
>>> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>>> Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
>>> Soldotna AK
>>> Avid "C" / Mk IV
>>> 582 IVO IFA
>>> Full Lotus 1260
>>> #1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
>>>
>>> hander outer of humorless darwin awards
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230404#230404
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Paul Franz
>> 425.440.9505 (O)
>> 425.241.1618 (C)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
Time: 05:04:47 AM PST US
From: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: what prop is the best,for a 582
Boy that's a good question to get things going... sort of like asking what
is the best flower, what is the best oiil or the best colour scotch
brite.... let's not go there again. Not this early in the silly season.
I have had two props on my plane so far and I have another one to put on the
new 912.
The first was a three blade GSC wood prop. It was a little long for the
float application and consistently picked up spray in the prop. I was
continuously filling and dressing the leading edge. I think that prop had
been over tightened at one time as when I set the pitch and torque down the
blades to spec they would always go back to the original setting. When I
found out the blades were almost fifteen years time expired I decided to go
with another prop.
Enter prop #2 an UL Ivo electric IFA. At first I was a little sceptical if
thei thin bladed prop would be able to pull my float plane. I needn't have
worried. It worked perfectly. Being an inch or so shorter than the GSC
meant it didn't lift the spray like the GSC so I didn't have the problems of
leading edge pitting. There are a few points about this prop.. First it
is worth your time to set the limits on the prop. It takes a little longer
but will be worth it in the end.
Secondly: This is a composite prop. It is not as hard a steel so you
should very carefully follow the instructions on installing the prop so as
not to damage the blades.
Next: The connector where the wires run into the hub I found to be weak and
several times the contacts came out in flight even though the locking screws
were in. Don't ask I don't know how. I ended up adding a couple of self
tapping screws into the connectors to snug things up That worked fine.
Finally: the slip rings and brushes are prone to water damage in rain. For
that reason I always kept but never used a couple of small wrenches that
would enable me to turn the brush carrier away from the slip rings if I
encountered any showers.
I think you will get lots of replies to this one.
Noel
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Cmflyboy12@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 12:50 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: what prop is the best,for a 582
yes it is, I got it backwords.Why I ask is I,ve had a ivo 3 blade on a
challenger 2 and I liked the way it adjusted.
_____
Need a job? Find
<http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=employment_agencies&ncid=emlcntusye
lp00000003> an employment agency near you.
________________________________ Message 3
_____________________________________
Time: 05:04:52 AM PST US
From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: New issue, turtle deck security
One more thing I should point out about mine....there is no hinge in
my t'deck, as I chose to use the one-piece domed t'deck window from
LP Aeroplastics (John McBean sells them) and during the installation,
the hinge is removed and the framework of the 'deck gets fabricated
into a one-piece...non-hinged...part. Whether or not this make it
stiffer and therefore less susceptible to "blow-out" is debatable. I
think the original hinged t'deck is fine as it is if done like the
manual calls for...on a Kitfox IV at least, because that's the only
one I know about.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
New skis done and flying
On Feb 16, 2009, at 6:57 AM, fox5flyer wrote:
> <fox5flyer@idealwifi.net>
>
> Good post, Lynn. All very good points. I had a good look at mine,
> a S5 and same setup as the 3. As far as I can see there is only
> one thing that can cause that leading edge to come out and that is
> extreme bending of the complete turtle deck itself. That is what
> the long stiffeners are for and after fooling around with mine for
> a few minutes, I found that it just ain't gonna happen. Before we
> all start tearing things apart and reinventing the wheel, lets
> first ensure there is a real inherent problem and not an isolated
> incident that is based on the method of fabrication.
> Personally, I feel everyone should have a good look at theirs, but
> I don't think it's an issue.
> Deke Morisse
> Mikado Michigan
> S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT
> "The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but
> progress."
> - Joseph Joubert
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 8:54 PM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: New issue, turtle deck security
>
>
>>
>> Perfectly clear, but is this 1-1/4" dimension really needed? The
>> Kitfox seems to work ok with the 5/8" overlap, and this is the
>> first time we've (I've, at least) heard of the turtledeck blowing
>> out...or is it? Somebody with more time in type and on this list
>> should be able to answer this question. Is there a Service
>> Bulletin out on the Kitfox? Remember this is an Avid Service
>> Bulletin. I'm not saying anything bad about Avids, just trying to
>> understand why no SB on a Kitfox, if indeed there are none.
>>
>> Next is the history of this particular plane. Just the other day
>> we had a flutter problem on this plane. Now we've got a
>> turtledeck trying to exit the plane. How about thinking a bit
>> further into this plane, and wondering if maybe the plane was
>> sold because it exhibited some of these strange behaviors. How
>> about a weak framework? How about a broken tube joint somewhere
>> hidden from normal view that would allow the framework to flex?
>> Did the new owner take the seats out, and look for any new welds,
>> or broken ones? Are all the camlocks present and accounted
>> for?...my plane has 9 of them holding the t'deck on...factory
>> count. Are they tight? How thick is the windshield/skylight
>> material? How many machine screws hold the rear of the skylight
>> in place, or are they rivets as the Kitfox and the Avid drawings
>> show? I chose to use machine screws and nutplates on my
>> installation after I read of so many builders needing to replace
>> windshields/skylights due to crazing/cracks, etc. That might
>> account for some of the strength in that area that my plane
>> apparently exhibits.
>>
>> Remember this is a recently sold/purchased airplane....maybe the
>> buyer need to do more than kick the tires and light 'er up.
>>
>> Lynn Matteson
>> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
>> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs
>> Sensenich 62x46
>> Electroair direct-fire ignition system
>> New skis done and flying
>>
>>
________________________________ Message 4
_____________________________________
Time: 05:31:38 AM PST US
From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: what prop is the best,for a 582
I thought that common wisdom was to not use a wooden prop on a float-
equipped airplane. Maybe the key word here is "wisdom".
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
New skis done and flying
On Feb 16, 2009, at 8:00 AM, Noel Loveys wrote:
> Boy thats a good question to get things going... sort of like
> asking what is the best flower, what is the best oiil or the best
> colour scotch brite.... lets not go there again. Not this early
> in the silly season.
>
>
> I have had two props on my plane so far and I have another one to
> put on the new 912.
>
>
> The first was a three blade GSC wood prop. It was a little long
> for the float application and consistently picked up spray in the
> prop. I was continuously filling and dressing the leading edge. I
> think that prop had been over tightened at one time as when I set
> the pitch and torque down the blades to spec they would always go
> back to the original setting. When I found out the blades were
> almost fifteen years time expired I decided to go with another prop.
>
>
> Enter prop #2 an UL Ivo electric IFA. At first I was a little
> sceptical if thei thin bladed prop would be able to pull my float
> plane. I neednt have worried. It worked perfectly. Being an
> inch or so shorter than the GSC meant it didnt lift the spray like
> the GSC so I didnt have the problems of leading edge pitting.
> There are a few points about this prop.. First it is worth your
> time to set the limits on the prop. It takes a little longer but
> will be worth it in the end.
>
> Secondly: This is a composite prop. It is not as hard a steel so
> you should very carefully follow the instructions on installing the
> prop so as not to damage the blades.
>
> Next: The connector where the wires run into the hub I found to be
> weak and several times the contacts came out in flight even though
> the locking screws were in. Dont ask I dont know how. I ended
> up adding a couple of self tapping screws into the connectors to
> snug things up That worked fine.
>
> Finally: the slip rings and brushes are prone to water damage in
> rain. For that reason I always kept but never used a couple of
> small wrenches that would enable me to turn the brush carrier away
> from the slip rings if I encountered any showers.
>
>
> I think you will get lots of replies to this one.
>
>
> Noel
>
>
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-
> list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cmflyboy12@aol.com
> Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 12:50 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: what prop is the best,for a 582
>
>
> yes it is, I got it backwords.Why I ask is I,ve had a ivo 3 blade
> on a challenger 2 and I liked the way it adjusted.
>
>
> Need a job? Find an employment agency near you.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-Listhttp://
> forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ============================================================ _-
> ============================================================ _-
> contribution_-
> ==========================================================
________________________________ Message 5
_____________________________________
Time: 06:42:46 AM PST US
From: "Chuck Popenoe" <cpops@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: New issue, turtle deck security
I just went out and measured the overlap on my Avid A and it measured
7/8=94.
I got the AD from Avid while I was building, so I added aluminum strips
both
top and bottom to increase the overlap, which was originally only about
=BD=94.
This has worked as advertised, as I routinely do extreme slips, doors
open
and closed, with no problem.
Pops
Checked by AVG.
2/16/2009
6:55 AM
________________________________ Message 6
_____________________________________
Time: 06:49:37 AM PST US
From: "Bob Brennan" <matronics@bob.brennan.name>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: New issue, turtle deck security
It's not the double slash Paul, even
http://forums.matronics.com/files/turtle_deck_603.jpg doesn't work because
the picture is turtle_deck_132 not turtle_deck_603, which apparently does
not exist.
Bob Brennan(pedant emeritus) - N717GB
ELSA Repairman, inspection rated
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Franz -
Merlin GT
Sent: 15 February 2009 11:11 pm
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: New issue, turtle deck security
<paul@eucleides.com>
On Sun, February 15, 2009 7:13 pm, Tom Jones wrote:
> Attached is a picture of the inside of the leading edge on a Classic 4
turtle deck.
> Note the notch in the lower left where it fits around the rear spar carry
through.
> Also the stiffening angles riveted to the inside of the deck. The camlock
on the side
> near the leading edge.
The attachment is actaully here:
<http://forums.matronics.com/files/turtle_deck_132.jpg>
Rather than the improperly shown link in the e-mail distributed to the KF
List:
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/turtle_deck_603.jpg
Something goofy happens when a forum post with a picture gets sent to
e-mail. Notice
the extra forward slash in the posted link? Just enough so that the
matronics web
server can't resolve the file location.
--
Paul A. Franz
Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT
Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP
Bellevue WA
425.241.1618 Cell
________________________________ Message 7
_____________________________________
Time: 07:03:23 AM PST US
From: charles cook <cookflys@yahoo.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Brakes, tires, hubs, rotors
Anyone in need of Matco brakes,-new tires, hubs, wheels I have listed-s
ome on ebay.-
Charles Cook
N363KF -582
ATL=0A=0A=0A
________________________________ Message 8
_____________________________________
Time: 07:35:36 AM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: New issue, turtle deck security
From: "Tom Jones" <nahsikhs@elltel.net>
Just a thought for anyone that installs the Avid turtle deck overlap
modification.
You should watch as you fold the wings the first time to be sure the
aluminum
overlap extension doesn't dig into the top of the wing as you swing it back.
You might need to put a slight upward bend on each rear corner so the
aluminum
will slide up on the wing fabric.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230503#230503
________________________________ Message 9
_____________________________________
Time: 07:50:03 AM PST US
From: "Pete Christensen" <apeterchristensen@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Brakes, tires, hubs, rotors
I did a search and did not find the listing.
----- Original Message -----
From: charles cook
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 8:01 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Brakes, tires, hubs, rotors
Anyone in need of Matco brakes, new tires, hubs, wheels I have
listed some on ebay.
Charles Cook
N363KF 582
ATL
3D==============
3D==============
3D==============
3D
3D==============
3D==============
3D==============
3D
3D==============
3D==============
3D==============
3D
3D==============
3D==============
3D==============
3D
________________________________ Message 10
____________________________________
Time: 08:59:44 AM PST US
From: patrick reilly <patreilly43@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: New issue, turtle deck security
Tom=2C Thanks for the heads up on the turtle deck extension.
Do not archivePat ReillyMod 3 582 RebuildRockford=2C IL> Subject: Kitfox-Li
st: Re: New issue=2C turtle deck security> From: nahsikhs@elltel.net> Date:
Mon=2C 16 Feb 2009 07:34:52 -0800> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com> > --> Ki
tfox-List message posted by: "Tom Jones" <nahsikhs@elltel.net>> > Just a th
ought for anyone that installs the Avid turtle deck overlap modification. Y
ou should watch as you fold the wings the first time to be sure the aluminu
m overlap extension doesn't dig into the top of the wing as you swing it ba
ck. You might need to put a slight upward bend on each rear corner so the a
luminum will slide up on the wing fabric.> > --------> Tom Jones> Classic I
V> 503 Rotax=2C 72 inch Two blade Warp> Ellensburg=2C WA> > > > > Read this
topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230503
=====================> > >
________________________________ Message 11
____________________________________
Time: 09:10:48 AM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Adding wing tanks
From: "AKFLYERBOB" <r.wolfejr@worldnet.att.net>
Bob
Looks like John and Debra might have to chime in.
Sorry for the delay.
I looked thru all my stuff, Mod 1, 2 and 3 books. I found
instructions for building the wings with the different tanks
and a letter from Sky Star stating retro fit instructions had
been sent with the 13 gal tanks but I did not find the
instructions.
When I installed the 13 gal tk I removed the drag tube and one
rib. moved the short braces over one rib and re-riveted them w/glue.
The tk installed with construction silicone, not so flexible.
The wing had had a 6 gal tk.
Bob
--------
Bob Wolfe..Soldotna, Alaska
KF Mod I and III
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230527#230527
________________________________ Message 12
____________________________________
Time: 09:37:09 AM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: New issue, turtle deck security
From: "WurlyBird" <james.t.trizzino@us.army.mil>
This on may be a lengthy post:
Lynn, I as well have started to question the competency of the builder of
this
plane. It is a fantastic plane but a few details just seem to be neglected.
Notice the omission of the flaperon control horn bushing on the turtle deck.
Unfortunately details like this are not apparent until you read the assembly
manual.
I am overall pleased with this plane but I suspect that over the years
I will find a few things that upset me.
So now on to the turtle deck, I read the assembly manual and my turtle deck
and
wind shield appear to be constructed per the manual, which by the way only
calls
for a 1/4" overlap of the 'deck. This kit was purchased in 1990 and per the
instructions there is only 7 DZUS fasteners. And there are stiffeners full
length. What I found is that CF-46 Skylight Angle is flexible and can be
moved
forward. I have also noticed that nothing secures the green house to the
fuselage
and so in flight the lift over the fuselage pulls the window up and
separates
it from the root ribs, subsequently this shortens the overlap on the turtle
deck. I believe that this may be what was the biggest contributing factor
to the 'deck popping out.
So for now I am planning on doing the Avid mod. Any other observations or
input
is appreciated. Has anyone done anything to secure the lexan to the top of
the fuse? I think that would be the greatest fix but I am not sure the
lexan
could handle it.
--------
James
Kitfox 3 / 582 / GSC prop
4 hrs of instruction and climbing (I solo tomorrow)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230530#230530
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/turtle_deck_822.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/manual_extract_121.jpg
________________________________ Message 13
____________________________________
Time: 09:39:30 AM PST US
From: "Bob Brennan" <matronics@bob.brennan.name>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Adding wing tanks
I've had a look inside my port wing and the pix online again and it looks
like I could simply mount two 6 gallon tanks without removing any struts
only cross braces. The braces are only glued in place and I assume gluing
the tanks and plywood in place will be stronger.
I haven't contacted either wingtanks.com or the McBeans yet as to which is
better to buy from and/or who sells the better tanks, it's too bloody cold
here anyway for that kind of work! I do have plenty of space with a barn, a
"shed" (large enough to park a plane, farm tractor, trailer and boat in at
once), and a large garage but none are enclosed enough to heat; so it's
off-season for me.
Bob Brennan - N717GB
ELSA Repairman, inspection rated
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox taildragger
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AKFLYERBOB
Sent: 16 February 2009 12:10 pm
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Adding wing tanks
Bob
Looks like John and Debra might have to chime in.
Sorry for the delay.
I looked thru all my stuff, Mod 1, 2 and 3 books. I found
instructions for building the wings with the different tanks
and a letter from Sky Star stating retro fit instructions had
been sent with the 13 gal tanks but I did not find the
instructions.
When I installed the 13 gal tk I removed the drag tube and one
rib. moved the short braces over one rib and re-riveted them w/glue.
The tk installed with construction silicone, not so flexible.
The wing had had a 6 gal tk.
Bob
--------
Bob Wolfe..Soldotna, Alaska
KF Mod I and III
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230527#230527
________________________________ Message 14
____________________________________
Time: 10:31:35 AM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: New issue, turtle deck security
From: "akflyer" <akflyer_2000@yahoo.com>
Tom Jones wrote:
> Just a thought for anyone that installs the Avid turtle deck overlap
modification.
You should watch as you fold the wings the first time to be sure the
aluminum
overlap extension doesn't dig into the top of the wing as you swing it
back. You might need to put a slight upward bend on each rear corner so the
aluminum
will slide up on the wing fabric.
VERY good point, and one I did not think about. The first time I folded the
wings,
it was apparent that it was going to hit. I cut each side at about a 45
deg. angle and rounded the corners so it would not hit. GREAT catch!
Whurly, on my avid, it has a partial rib across the center of the skylight
(greenhouse)
that has rivets in it to keep the screen from ballooning up just as you
have shown on the drawing you attached. May be an easy fix for you to add
it if you so desire. I can get a good pic of how Avid did it if you are
interested.
The only drawback to it, is now I cant hang my head set over the center
cross bar like I can on my Brothers KF II.
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1260
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
hander outer of humorless darwin awards
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230540#230540
________________________________ Message 15
____________________________________
Time: 10:31:55 AM PST US
From: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: New issue, turtle deck security
At 09:36 AM 2/16/2009, you wrote:
>Has anyone done anything to secure the lexan to the top of the
>fuse? I think that would be the greatest fix but I am not sure the
>lexan could handle it.
James,
You mean it's not secured AT ALL? Mine is secured on the
perimeter, about every 2" with screws into floating nut plates.
There's a set of ribs on the sides, and the aluminum angle in the
back. Down the fore and aft centerline there's a "T", but the
skylight just rests on it; there are no fasteners.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
________________________________ Message 16
____________________________________
Time: 10:33:50 AM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: New issue, turtle deck security
From: "akflyer" <akflyer_2000@yahoo.com>
WurlyBird wrote:
> This on may be a lengthy post:
>
> Lynn, I as well have started to question the competency of the builder of
this
plane. It is a fantastic plane but a few details just seem to be neglected.
Notice the omission of the flaperon control horn bushing on the turtle deck.
Unfortunately details like this are not apparent until you read the assembly
manual. I am overall pleased with this plane but I suspect that over the
years
I will find a few things that upset me.
>
> So now on to the turtle deck, I read the assembly manual and my turtle
deck and
wind shield appear to be constructed per the manual, which by the way only
calls for a 1/4" overlap of the 'deck. This kit was purchased in 1990 and
per
the instructions there is only 7 DZUS fasteners. And there are stiffeners
full
length. What I found is that CF-46 Skylight Angle is flexible and can be
moved
forward. I have also noticed that nothing secures the green house to the
fuselage and so in flight the lift over the fuselage pulls the window up and
separates it from the root ribs, subsequently this shortens the overlap on
the
turtle deck. I believe that this may be what was the biggest contributing
factor
to the 'deck popping out.
>
> So for now I am planning on doing the Avid mod. Any other observations or
input
is appreciated. Has anyone done anything to secure the lexan to the top of
the fuse? I think that would be the greatest fix but I am not sure the
lexan
could handle it.
I think you have have just figured out where your flutter came from...
without
the bearing blocks in the turtle deck, I would put money on it that the
flutter
started right there. It is VERY specific in the Avid manual to put them in
and not doing so can lead to flutter. It is also specific that it needs to
be
touching on the top not letting it flop around at all.
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1260
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
hander outer of humorless darwin awards
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230542#230542
________________________________ Message 17
____________________________________
Time: 10:59:44 AM PST US
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: New issue, turtle deck security
From: "Paul Franz - Merlin GT" <paul@eucleides.com>
On Mon, February 16, 2009 6:48 am, Bob Brennan wrote:
>
> It's not the double slash Paul, even
> http://forums.matronics.com/files/turtle_deck_603.jpg doesn't work because
> the picture is turtle_deck_132 not turtle_deck_603, which apparently does
> not exist.
Oops, my bad. I at least noticed that the link was wrong in the e-mail and
got
the
correct one from the forum. I've seen this problem happen before too. I
think Matt
Dralle out to upgrade to the latest version of phpBB. It's running 2.0 and
version
3
with a lot of bug fixes and enhancements is out now.
>
> Bob Brennan(pedant emeritus) - N717GB
> ELSA Repairman, inspection rated
> 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
> Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
> Wrightsville Pa
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Franz -
> Merlin GT
> Sent: 15 February 2009 11:11 pm
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: New issue, turtle deck security
>
> <paul@eucleides.com>
>
> On Sun, February 15, 2009 7:13 pm, Tom Jones wrote:
>
>> Attached is a picture of the inside of the leading edge on a Classic 4
> turtle deck.
>> Note the notch in the lower left where it fits around the rear spar carry
> through.
>> Also the stiffening angles riveted to the inside of the deck. The
camlock
> on the side
>> near the leading edge.
>
> The attachment is actaully here:
>
> <http://forums.matronics.com/files/turtle_deck_132.jpg>
>
> Rather than the improperly shown link in the e-mail distributed to the KF
> List:
>
>> Attachments:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/turtle_deck_603.jpg
>
> Something goofy happens when a forum post with a picture gets sent to
> e-mail. Notice
> the extra forward slash in the posted link? Just enough so that the
> matronics web
> server can't resolve the file location.
>
> --
> Paul A. Franz
> Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT
> Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP
> Bellevue WA
> 425.241.1618 Cell
>
>
--
Paul Franz
425.440.9505 (O)
425.241.1618 (C)
________________________________ Message 18
____________________________________
Time: 11:21:17 AM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Adjusting control stick?
From: "815TL" <lawrenceaw@corning.com>
Hey guys, quick question. The stick in my plane seems to be quite far
forward,
even when in straight and level flihgt. It feels like I need longer arms to
reach it. There appears to be a way to adjust the stick position, but I am
not
sure if I should. I would like to pull it back a little, but I don't want
to
limit the travel of the elevator upards. It seems if I adjust it, it will
hit
the seat/cushions sooner, limiting elevator travel.
What is the best way to change this?
Andrew,
815TL, Kitfox II, Rotax 582-C
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230550#230550
________________________________ Message 19
____________________________________
Time: 11:23:20 AM PST US
From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: New issue, turtle deck security
Omigod, yes, there should be fasteners all along the butt ribs to
hold the skylight/greenhouse down...at least on a IV, and I'd think
on a III as well. My plans call for:
"If you're certain it's positioned properly (square at the back edge
and .4" aft of the #52903 spacer), lay out, drill #30 holes and cleco
along the butat ribs using a 2" spacing 1/4" in from the capstrip
inner edge."
The #52903 spacer is the CF-24 spacer. So Skystar only allowed for
0.4" of skylight overlapping the t'deck. But the key to this whole
scenario is the screwing down, or riveting down, of the skylight/
greenhouse to the butt ribs. I can't believe this was not done. I
just re-read my instructions for mounting the windshield, and
although Skystar tells you to drill and cleco along the butt ribs,
they don't tell you to go ahead and actually do the riveting...DUH!
Again, I was concerned with all the problems that the group was
having with windshields cracking and crazing, and elected to install
nutplates and machine screws along the butt ribs. A
picture is below...this picture is rotated 90 degrees clockwise.
Another question, James....does your plane have the center rib? This
is called the #27005 Skylight Rib, and because it doesn't have a
corresponding CF-XX number, it may have been a Model IV and later
addition/option. This is just a support for the skylight as it is not
riveted to the skylight.
I wholeheartedly agree with your assessment of the reason for the
'deck popping out.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
New skis done and flying
On Feb 16, 2009, at 12:36 PM, WurlyBird wrote:
> <james.t.trizzino@us.army.mil>
>
> This on may be a lengthy post:
>
> Lynn, I as well have started to question the competency of the
> builder of this plane. It is a fantastic plane but a few details
> just seem to be neglected. Notice the omission of the flaperon
> control horn bushing on the turtle deck. Unfortunately details
> like this are not apparent until you read the assembly manual. I
> am overall pleased with this plane but I suspect that over the
> years I will find a few things that upset me.
>
> So now on to the turtle deck, I read the assembly manual and my
> turtle deck and wind shield appear to be constructed per the
> manual, which by the way only calls for a 1/4" overlap of the
> 'deck. This kit was purchased in 1990 and per the instructions
> there is only 7 DZUS fasteners. And there are stiffeners full
> length. What I found is that CF-46 Skylight Angle is flexible and
> can be moved forward. I have also noticed that nothing secures the
> green house to the fuselage and so in flight the lift over the
> fuselage pulls the window up and separates it from the root ribs,
> subsequently this shortens the overlap on the turtle deck. I
> believe that this may be what was the biggest contributing factor
> to the 'deck popping out.
>
> So for now I am planning on doing the Avid mod. Any other
> observations or input is appreciated. Has anyone done anything to
> secure the lexan to the top of the fuse? I think that would be the
> greatest fix but I am not sure the lexan could handle it.
>
> --------
> James
> Kitfox 3 / 582 / GSC prop
> 4 hrs of instruction and climbing (I solo tomorrow)
>
________________________________ Message 20
____________________________________
Time: 12:27:55 PM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: New issue, turtle deck security
From: "WurlyBird" <james.t.trizzino@us.army.mil>
Again one of those things that you just don't realize unless you get to see
a good
KF example for comparison, and then there is the manual, which admittedly
I misunderstood. As you can see in the pictures the green house is secured
to
aluminum strips along the top of the butt ribs. From top to bottom it goes;
rivet, nylon washer, lexan, self adhesive felt strip, aluminum bar, other
end
of rivet. This sits on another strip of adhesive backed felt on top of the
cap
strip. There is a center rib but it is not secured to the lexan, it has a
felt
strip on it as well as per the instruction manual. i suppose this was the
builders idea of making the window easy to switch out instead of using
screws
like you Lynn. It looks like I am going to be grounded until I can get a
new
piece of lexan. At this point I think if I completely replace the lexan and
secure it properly I will be in good shape. I will probably increase the
overhang
a little since I will be replacing it anyway. Looks like the solo and
rating
will be waiting a little longer. This sucks but it will also give me time
to get those bushings made and installed. And to think, we bought an
already
built plane so we could spend more time flying then building. [Rolling Eyes]
--------
James
Kitfox 3 / 582 / GSC prop
4 hrs of instruction and climbing (I solo tomorrow)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230555#230555
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/greenhouse2_163.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/greenhouse1_133.jpg
________________________________ Message 21
____________________________________
Time: 02:18:52 PM PST US
From: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Adjusting control stick?
At 11:20 AM 2/16/2009, you wrote:
>I would like to pull it back a little, but I don't want to limit the
>travel of the elevator upards. It seems if I adjust it, it will hit
>the seat/cushions sooner, limiting elevator travel.
Andrew,
My stick follows an S-bend, and you're right, it hits the
cushions which are heavily cut back. I've seen sticks that were a
graceful bent curve aft 90 degrees, then a hard 90 up for the handle.
This latter was welded on. They provide the maximum clearance for height.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
________________________________ Message 22
____________________________________
Time: 02:20:56 PM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Brakes, tires, hubs, rotors
From: "Tom Jones" <nahsikhs@elltel.net>
I found them.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aircraft-brakes-wheels-tires-hubs-axels_W0QQc
mdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a570Q7c66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a12Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c3
01Q3a0Q7c293Q3a1Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem330308312806
QQitemZ330308312806QQptZMotorsQ5fAviationQ5fPartsQ5fGear
I'd bid if it was just the wheels.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230570#230570
________________________________ Message 23
____________________________________
Time: 02:33:40 PM PST US
From: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: New issue, turtle deck security
At 12:25 PM 2/16/2009, you wrote:
>As you can see in the pictures the green house is secured to
>aluminum strips along the top of the butt ribs. From top to bottom
>it goes; rivet, nylon washer, lexan, self adhesive felt strip,
>aluminum bar, other end of rivet. This sits on another strip of
>adhesive backed felt on top of the cap strip.
Man that's weird. And I'd say it's definitely what caused
the lift. If your butt ribs aren't yet drilled you could probably get
away with re-using the skylight. Just set the Lexan down onto the
felt on top of the butt ribs and match drill. Be careful, though. I
had a lot of trouble getting the nut plates to sit perpendicular to
the skylight due to the way the butt ribs were made. There was a bit
of a fillet between the rib cap and rib. I had to Dremel a little
flat pad for each one. It was a real pain with the ribs already in place.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
________________________________ Message 24
____________________________________
Time: 03:41:37 PM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: New issue, turtle deck security
From: "WurlyBird" <james.t.trizzino@us.army.mil>
Hey Lynn, are those 6-32 anchor nuts you used? How did you go about
attaching
them? I have ordered a new piece of lexan and I think it might be best to
attach
it like you did since if i ever work out all the bugs I might keep this
plane
for a while.
--------
James
Kitfox 3 / 582 / GSC prop
4 hrs of instruction and climbing (I solo tomorrow)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230579#230579
________________________________ Message 25
____________________________________
Time: 07:40:45 PM PST US
From: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: what prop is the best,for a 582
I agree with you on that one but the GSC was on the plane when I got it.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 9:59 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: what prop is the best,for a 582
I thought that common wisdom was to not use a wooden prop on a float-
equipped airplane. Maybe the key word here is "wisdom".
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
New skis done and flying
On Feb 16, 2009, at 8:00 AM, Noel Loveys wrote:
> Boy that's a good question to get things going... sort of like
> asking what is the best flower, what is the best oiil or the best
> colour scotch brite.... let's not go there again. Not this early
> in the silly season.
>
>
> I have had two props on my plane so far and I have another one to
> put on the new 912.
>
>
> The first was a three blade GSC wood prop. It was a little long
> for the float application and consistently picked up spray in the
> prop. I was continuously filling and dressing the leading edge. I
> think that prop had been over tightened at one time as when I set
> the pitch and torque down the blades to spec they would always go
> back to the original setting. When I found out the blades were
> almost fifteen years time expired I decided to go with another prop.
>
>
> Enter prop #2 an UL Ivo electric IFA. At first I was a little
> sceptical if thei thin bladed prop would be able to pull my float
> plane. I needn't have worried. It worked perfectly. Being an
> inch or so shorter than the GSC meant it didn't lift the spray like
> the GSC so I didn't have the problems of leading edge pitting.
> There are a few points about this prop.. First it is worth your
> time to set the limits on the prop. It takes a little longer but
> will be worth it in the end.
>
> Secondly: This is a composite prop. It is not as hard a steel so
> you should very carefully follow the instructions on installing the
> prop so as not to damage the blades.
>
> Next: The connector where the wires run into the hub I found to be
> weak and several times the contacts came out in flight even though
> the locking screws were in. Don't ask I don't know how. I ended
> up adding a couple of self tapping screws into the connectors to
> snug things up That worked fine.
>
> Finally: the slip rings and brushes are prone to water damage in
> rain. For that reason I always kept but never used a couple of
> small wrenches that would enable me to turn the brush carrier away
> from the slip rings if I encountered any showers.
>
>
> I think you will get lots of replies to this one.
>
>
> Noel
>
>
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-
> list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cmflyboy12@aol.com
> Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 12:50 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: what prop is the best,for a 582
>
>
> yes it is, I got it backwords.Why I ask is I,ve had a ivo 3 blade
> on a challenger 2 and I liked the way it adjusted.
>
>
> Need a job? Find an employment agency near you.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-Listhttp://
> forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ============================================================ _-
> ============================================================ _-
> contribution_-
> ==========================================================
________________________________ Message 26
____________________________________
Time: 08:57:23 PM PST US
From: Marco Menezes <msm_9949@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: New issue, turtle deck security
James,
-
On my Model 2 the lexan overlaps the turtledeck about 5/8". Never had any p
roblems with it but it is attached to butt ribs and rear carry-through tube
as specified. Currently attached with sheet metal screws every 2 inches bu
t when I replace the lexan (next Winter probably) I'm considering rivnuts a
nd machine screws in the butt ribs.
-
Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1 w/clutch
--- On Sun, 2/15/09, WurlyBird <james.t.trizzino@us.army.mil> wrote:
From: WurlyBird <james.t.trizzino@us.army.mil>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: New issue, turtle deck security
<james.t.trizzino@us.army.mil>
I re-read it two more times, everything is indicating that the minimum requ
ired
1 1/4" is measured from the front of FC-3. Do you have 1 1/4" of
lexan that overlaps the turtle deck? Can I get a quick poll on this from a
few
people? I can certainly see that the extra would help keep everything toge
ther.
--------
James
Kitfox 3 / 582 / GSC prop
4 hrs of instruction and climbing (I solo tomorrow)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230377#230377
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/avid_clip_189.jpg
=0A=0A=0A
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Greenhouse construction |
I don't see the need or the safety in attaching the skylight to the
center rib...that rib just isn't that well secured to anything to
consider it a structural member, in my opinion. As to CF 46...you
will have about 18-20 rivets (or machine screws in my case), through
that member unless the Model II instructions are drastically
different than the Model IV.
If the concern is "nutplates on the curved surface", that surface is
not so curved that nutplates won't sit flat against it...or is that
not the concern?
Maybe I just don't like changing windshields and that's why I went
against the lexan idea, and used an LP Aeroplastics formed
windshield, and anchor nuts. I've got a windshield that'll last a
very long time (knock on wood), but when I need to change, it'll be
an easy, one-handed job. Another factor...you mentioned using nylock
nuts....awfully hard to get to when you decide to cover the butt rib
area...not so accessible then.
I use anchor nuts for convenience....spend some time now and
avoid...ever...to have to use two hands to get those nuts and bolts
to go together.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
New skis done and flying
On Feb 17, 2009, at 2:36 PM, Ed Gray wrote:
>
> I haven't installed my lexan yet so still considering the various
> ideas on
> securing the lexan. Is there a downside to installing 2 or 3
> machine screws
> thru the lexan and the center rib to prevent the lexan pulling up
> in flight?
> Or if the CF 46 flange is deforming, why not add a rivet thru the
> top in one
> or two places? As to securing the sides of the lexan to the butt
> ribs, I
> think an aluminum strip on the bottom of the rib cap inner side
> makes more
> sense. Then, why use nutplates on the curved surface? They are
> accessible,
> so why not use nylok nuts with the truss screws. I can also see
> how an
> aluminum bracket could be installed on the center of the carry thru
> tube so
> that an additional camlock can be installed thru the turtledeck.
>
> Ed Gray KII building
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Greenhouse construction |
I like Lynn's answer here.- Although I didn't use the anchor nuts on my f
irst airplane, I will on the second.- I remember all the anchor nuts I pu
t on the engine baffling on the Lancair project to the owners minor objecti
ons.- I am sure that each annual, he will thank me under his breath for t
hat one (at the time) perceived extravagance.
-
For what it's worth.- I replaced the windshield once.- That is two piec
es of Lexan in 900 hours over eight years and the-third sheet was not due
.
-
Lowell
--- On Tue, 2/17/09, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net> wrote:
From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: RE: Greenhouse construction
I don't see the need or the safety in attaching the skylight to the center
rib...that rib just isn't that well secured to anything to consider it a
structural member, in my opinion. As to CF 46...you will have about 18-20 r
ivets
(or machine screws in my case), through that member unless the Model II
instructions are drastically different than the Model IV.
If the concern is "nutplates on the curved surface", that surface is
not so curved that nutplates won't sit flat against it...or is that not the
concern?
Maybe I just don't like changing windshields and that's why I went
against the lexan idea, and used an LP Aeroplastics formed windshield, and
anchor nuts. I've got a windshield that'll last a very long time (knock
on wood), but when I need to change, it'll be an easy, one-handed job.
Another factor...you mentioned using nylock nuts....awfully hard to get to
when
you decide to cover the butt rib area...not so accessible then.
I use anchor nuts for convenience....spend some time now and avoid...ever..
.to
have to use two hands to get those nuts and bolts to go together.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
New skis done and flying
On Feb 17, 2009, at 2:36 PM, Ed Gray wrote:
<egraylaw@swbell.net>
>
> I haven't installed my lexan yet so still considering the various
ideas on
> securing the lexan. Is there a downside to installing 2 or 3 machine
screws
> thru the lexan and the center rib to prevent the lexan pulling up in
flight?
> Or if the CF 46 flange is deforming, why not add a rivet thru the top in
one
> or two places? As to securing the sides of the lexan to the butt ribs, I
> think an aluminum strip on the bottom of the rib cap inner side makes mor
e
> sense. Then, why use nutplates on the curved surface? They are
accessible,
> so why not use nylok nuts with the truss screws. I can also see how an
> aluminum bracket could be installed on the center of the carry thru tube
so
> that an additional camlock can be installed thru the turtledeck.
>
> Ed Gray KII building
Message 12
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|
| Subject: | Re: Greenhouse construction |
> As to securing the sides of the lexan to the butt ribs, I think an aluminum strip
on the bottom of the rib cap inner side makes more sense.
Ed, the classic 4 manual calls for a stainless steel strip epoxied to the underside
of the butt rib cap strip.
> Then, why use nutplates on the curved surface? They are accessible, so why not
use nylok nuts with the truss screws. I can also see how an aluminum bracket
could be installed on the center of the carry thru tube so that an additional
camlock can be installed thru the turtledeck.
I used 632 screws and nylock nuts. They are a pain in the butt to install and
remove. I could drill rivets out and replace much faster. To access the nylock
nuts I did not cover the inside of the butt ribs. I covered the bottom of
it with fabric and the outside with lexan. I can see into my wings while I'm
flying. Pictures attached.
As for the angle and cam lock, I would not drill any holes in the spar carry through
tube other than those indicated in the manual.
For what its worth, the rib cap strips are just stapled and glued to the rib web.
There have been reports of the butt rib cap strip separating from the web
due to the lift generated by the skylight. The fix is to make some aluminum or
stainless steel angles and install to butt rib and cap strip.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230764#230764
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/skylight_outside_545.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/skylight_inside_105.jpg
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| Subject: | Re: Adjusting control stick? |
Andrew;
Your post is timely as are the replies. Just yesterday I was sitting in my nearly
completed KF II (making engine noises) and checking out the control "ergonomics".
I found that the neutral position of the elevator was at the limit of
my forward reach and as such had the same question about adjustment. Yes, the
stick contacts the cushion at the full aft position, but not by much. I'll adjust
the push/pull tube as suggested.
Cheers
--------
Ken Potter
Model II, No. 483
Rotax 582, C-Box,
98% Complete
C-FJKP (marks reserved)
Lanark, Ontario
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230768#230768
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| Subject: | RE: Greenhouse construction |
Ed=2C I have to agree with Lynn. On my Model 3 the center rib is definitely
not a structual rib. I would be afraid to attach the lexan to it. And=2C a
s someone else mentioned rivets in the outside ribs are easier and faster t
han screws with nuts. I need to check mine to see if there is the stainless
steel strip on the bottom side of the rib=2C similar to the ribs in the wi
ng. I have my cabin top on already and I don't think there is the metal str
ip on the bottom of the rib. I am afraid my rivets are only through wood. D
o you guys have the metal strip on the bottom side of the outside ribs?Pat
ReillyMod 3 582 RebuildRockford=2C IL> From: egraylaw@swbell.net> To: kitfo
x-list@matronics.com> Subject: Kitfox-List: RE: Greenhouse construction> Da
"Ed Gray" <egraylaw@swbell.net>> > I haven't installed my lexan yet so sti
ll considering the various ideas on> securing the lexan. Is there a downsid
e to installing 2 or 3 machine screws> thru the lexan and the center rib to
prevent the lexan pulling up in flight?> Or if the CF 46 flange is deformi
ng=2C why not add a rivet thru the top in one> or two places? As to securin
g the sides of the lexan to the butt ribs=2C I> think an aluminum strip on
the bottom of the rib cap inner side makes more> sense. Then=2C why use nut
plates on the curved surface? They are accessible=2C> so why not use nylok
nuts with the truss screws. I can also see how an> aluminum bracket could b
e installed on the center of the carry thru tube so> that an additional cam
lock can be installed thru the turtledeck.> > Ed Gray KII building do not a
rchive> > -----Original Message-----> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matron
ics.com> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kitfo
x-List> Digest Server> Sent: Tuesday=2C February 17=2C 2009 1:59 AM> To: Ki
tfox-List Digest List> Subject: Kitfox-List Digest: 26 Msgs - 02/16/09> > *
> > =======================
==> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive> ======
===================> > Today's comple
te Kitfox-List Digest can also be found in either of the > two Web Links li
sted below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted > in HTML for view
ing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes > and Message Navig
ation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version > of the Kitfox-List
Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor > such as Notepad or wi
th a web browser. > > HTML Version:> > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/di
gestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter> 09-02-16&Archive=Kit
fox> > Text Version:> > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?St
yle=82701&View=txt&Chapter=> 2009-02-16&Archive=Kitfox> > > ==
=====================> EMail Vers
ion of Today's List Digest Archive> =============
==========> > > ---------------------------------------
-------------------> Kitfox-List Digest Archive> ---> Total Messages Posted
Mon 02/16/09: 26> --------------------------------------------------------
--> > > Today's Message Index:> ----------------------> > 1. 03:59 AM - Re:
Re: New issue=2C turtle deck security (fox5flyer)> 2. 05:04 AM - Re: what
prop is the best=2Cfor a 582 (Noel Loveys)> 3. 05:04 AM - Re: Re: New issue
=2C turtle deck security (Lynn Matteson)> 4. 05:31 AM - Re: what prop is th
e best=2Cfor a 582 (Lynn Matteson)> 5. 06:42 AM - Re: Re: New issue=2C turt
le deck security (Chuck Popenoe)> 6. 06:49 AM - Re: Re: New issue=2C turtle
deck security (Bob Brennan)> 7. 07:03 AM - Brakes=2C tires=2C hubs=2C roto
rs (charles cook)> 8. 07:35 AM - Re: New issue=2C turtle deck security (Tom
Jones)> 9. 07:50 AM - Re: Brakes=2C tires=2C hubs=2C rotors (Pete Christen
sen)> 10. 08:59 AM - Re: Re: New issue=2C turtle deck security (patrick rei
lly)> 11. 09:10 AM - Re: Adding wing tanks (AKFLYERBOB)> 12. 09:37 AM - Re:
New issue=2C turtle deck security (WurlyBird)> 13. 09:39 AM - Re: Re: Addi
ng wing tanks (Bob Brennan)> 14. 10:31 AM - Re: New issue=2C turtle deck se
curity (akflyer)> 15. 10:31 AM - Re: Re: New issue=2C turtle deck security
(Guy Buchanan)> 16. 10:33 AM - Re: New issue=2C turtle deck security (akfly
er)> 17. 10:59 AM - Re: Re: New issue=2C turtle deck security (Paul Franz -
> Merlin GT)> 18. 11:21 AM - Adjusting control stick? (815TL)> 19. 11:23 AM
- Re: Re: New issue=2C turtle deck security (Lynn Matteson)> 20. 12:27 PM
- Re: New issue=2C turtle deck security (WurlyBird)> 21. 02:18 PM - Re: Adj
usting control stick? (Guy Buchanan)> 22. 02:20 PM - Re: Brakes=2C tires=2C
hubs=2C rotors (Tom Jones)> 23. 02:33 PM - Re: Re: New issue=2C turtle dec
k security (Guy Buchanan)> 24. 03:41 PM - Re: New issue=2C turtle deck secu
rity (WurlyBird)> 25. 07:40 PM - Re: what prop is the best=2Cfor a 582 (Noe
l Loveys)> 26. 08:57 PM - Re: Re: New issue=2C turtle deck security (Marco
Menezes)> > > > ________________________________ Message 1> _______________
______________________> > > Time: 03:59:19 AM PST US> From: "fox5flyer" <fo
x5flyer@idealwifi.net>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: New issue=2C turtle d
eck security> > > Good post=2C Lynn. All very good points. I had a good loo
k at mine=2C a S5 and> > same setup as the 3. As far as I can see there is
only one thing that can > cause that leading edge to come out and that is e
xtreme bending of the > complete turtle deck itself. That is what the long
stiffeners are for and > after fooling around with mine for a few minutes
=2C I found that it just ain't> > gonna happen. Before we all start tearing
things apart and reinventing the > wheel=2C lets first ensure there is a r
eal inherent problem and not an > isolated incident that is based on the me
thod of fabrication.> Personally=2C I feel everyone should have a good look
at theirs=2C but I don't > think it's an issue.> Deke Morisse> Mikado Mich
igan> S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT> "The aim of an argument or discussion should n
ot be victory=2C but progress."> - Joseph Joubert> > > ----- Original Messa
ge ----- > From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>> Sent: Sunday=2C Februa
ry 15=2C 2009 8:54 PM> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: New issue=2C turtle de
ck security> > > >> > Perfectly clear=2C but is this 1-1/4" dimension reall
y needed? The Kitfox > > seems to work ok with the 5/8" overlap=2C and this
is the first time we've > > (I've=2C at least) heard of the turtledeck blo
wing out...or is it? Somebody> > > with more time in type and on this list
should be able to answer this > > question. Is there a Service Bulletin out
on the Kitfox? Remember this is> > > an Avid Service Bulletin. I'm not say
ing anything bad about Avids=2C just > > trying to understand why no SB on
a Kitfox=2C if indeed there are none.> >> > Next is the history of this par
ticular plane. Just the other day we had a> > > flutter problem on this pla
ne. Now we've got a turtledeck trying to exit > > the plane. How about thin
king a bit further into this plane=2C and > > wondering if maybe the plane
was sold because it exhibited some of these > > strange behaviors. How abou
t a weak framework? How about a broken tube > > joint somewhere hidden from
normal view that would allow the framework to> > > flex? Did the new owner
take the seats out=2C and look for any new welds=2C > > or broken ones? Ar
e all the camlocks present and accounted for?...my > > plane has 9 of them
holding the t'deck on...factory count. Are they > > tight? How thick is the
windshield/skylight material? How many machine > > screws hold the rear of
the skylight in place=2C or are they rivets as the > > Kitfox and the Avid
drawings show? I chose to use machine screws and > > nutplates on my insta
llation after I read of so many builders needing to > > replace windshields
/skylights due to crazing/cracks=2C etc. That might > > account for some of
the strength in that area that my plane apparently > > exhibits.> >> > Rem
ember this is a recently sold/purchased airplane....maybe the buyer > > nee
d to do more than kick the tires and light 'er up.> >> > Lynn Matteson> > K
itfox IV Speedster=2C taildragger> > Jabiru 2200=2C #2062=2C 605 hrs> > Sen
senich 62x46> > Electroair direct-fire ignition system> > New skis done and
flying> >> >> > On Feb 15=2C 2009=2C at 7:04 PM=2C Paul Franz wrote:> >> >
>> >>> >> On Sun=2C February 15=2C 2009 2:38 pm=2C akflyer wrote:> >>>> >>>
marked up the PDF and reposted> >>> >> Excellent! Now this is perfectly cl
ear. However=2C I must point out that > >> the markup did> >> not get distr
ibuted to the e-mail list but it appears in the forum > >> posting just fin
e.> >> click this link to see Leni's (Snakeman's) perfectly clear markup.>
>>> >> <http://forums.matronics.com/download.php? > >> id=14596&sid=7a9
dbd247008ae785633dd9eb88241c2>> >>> >>>> >>> --------> >>> DO NOT ARCHIVE>
>>> Leonard Perry aka SNAKE> >>> Soldotna AK> >>> Avid "=3BC"=3B /
Mk IV> >>> 582 IVO IFA> >>> Full Lotus 1260> >>> #1 snake oil salesman sinc
e 1-22-2009> >>>> >>> hander outer of humorless darwin awards> >>>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >>> Read this topic online here:> >>>> >>> http://forums.matronics.
com/viewtopic.php?p=230404#230404> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> -- > >> Paul Franz> >> 425.440.9505 (O)> >> 425.241.
1618 (C)> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> > > > > ________________________________ Me
ssage 2> _____________________________________> > > Time: 05:04:47 AM PST U
S> From: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: wha
t prop is the best=2Cfor a 582> > Boy that's a good question to get things
going... sort of like asking what> is the best flower=2C what is the best o
iil or the best colour scotch> brite.... let's not go there again. Not this
early in the silly season.> > > I have had two props on my plane so far an
d I have another one to put on the> new 912. > > > The first was a three bl
ade GSC wood prop. It was a little long for the> float application and cons
istently picked up spray in the prop. I was> continuously filling and dress
ing the leading edge. I think that prop had> been over tightened at one tim
e as when I set the pitch and torque down the> blades to spec they would al
ways go back to the original setting. When I> found out the blades were alm
ost fifteen years time expired I decided to go> with another prop.> > > Ent
er prop #2 an UL Ivo electric IFA. At first I was a little sceptical if> th
ei thin bladed prop would be able to pull my float plane. I needn't have> w
orried. It worked perfectly. Being an inch or so shorter than the GSC> mean
t it didn't lift the spray like the GSC so I didn't have the problems of> l
eading edge pitting. There are a few points about this prop.. First it> is
worth your time to set the limits on the prop. It takes a little longer> bu
t will be worth it in the end. > > Secondly: This is a composite prop. It i
s not as hard a steel so you> should very carefully follow the instructions
on installing the prop so as> not to damage the blades.> > Next: The conne
ctor where the wires run into the hub I found to be weak and> several times
the contacts came out in flight even though the locking screws> were in. D
on't ask I don't know how. I ended up adding a couple of self> tapping scre
ws into the connectors to snug things up That worked fine.> > Finally: the
slip rings and brushes are prone to water damage in rain. For> that reason
I always kept but never used a couple of small wrenches that> would enable
me to turn the brush carrier away from the slip rings if I> encountered any
showers.> > > I think you will get lots of replies to this one.> > > Noel>
> > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com> [mailto:owner-kitfox-lis
t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of> Cmflyboy12@aol.com> Sent: Sunday=2C F
ebruary 15=2C 2009 12:50 PM> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: what prop is the bes
t=2Cfor a 582> > > yes it is=2C I got it backwords.Why I ask is I=2Cve had
a ivo 3 blade on a> challenger 2 and I liked the way it adjusted.> > > ____
_ > > Need a job? Find> <http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=employme
nt_agencies&ncid=emlcntusye> lp00000003> an employment agency near you.>
> > ________________________________ Message 3> ___________________________
__________> > > Time: 05:04:52 AM PST US> From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps
.net>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: New issue=2C turtle deck security> > >
One more thing I should point out about mine....there is no hinge in > my
t'deck=2C as I chose to use the one-piece domed t'deck window from > LP Aer
oplastics (John McBean sells them) and during the installation=2C > the hin
ge is removed and the framework of the 'deck gets fabricated > into a one-p
iece...non-hinged...part. Whether or not this make it > stiffer and therefo
re less susceptible to "blow-out" is debatable. I > think the original hing
ed t'deck is fine as it is if done like the > manual calls for...on a Kitfo
x IV at least=2C because that's the only > one I know about.> > Lynn Mattes
on> Kitfox IV Speedster=2C taildragger> Jabiru 2200=2C #2062=2C 605 hrs> Se
nsenich 62x46> Electroair direct-fire ignition system> New skis done and fl
ying> > > On Feb 16=2C 2009=2C at 6:57 AM=2C fox5flyer wrote:> > > <fox5fly
er@idealwifi.net>> >> > Good post=2C Lynn. All very good points. I had a go
od look at mine=2C > > a S5 and same setup as the 3. As far as I can see th
ere is only > > one thing that can cause that leading edge to come out and
that is > > extreme bending of the complete turtle deck itself. That is wha
t > > the long stiffeners are for and after fooling around with mine for >
> a few minutes=2C I found that it just ain't gonna happen. Before we > > a
ll start tearing things apart and reinventing the wheel=2C lets > > first e
nsure there is a real inherent problem and not an isolated > > incident tha
t is based on the method of fabrication.> > Personally=2C I feel everyone s
hould have a good look at theirs=2C but > > I don't think it's an issue.> >
Deke Morisse> > Mikado Michigan> > S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT> > "The aim of an
argument or discussion should not be victory=2C but > > progress."> > - Jo
seph Joubert> >> >> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Matteson" <l
ynnmatt@jps.net>> > To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>> > Sent: Sunday=2C Febr
uary 15=2C 2009 8:54 PM> > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: New issue=2C turtl
e deck security> >> >> >>> >> Perfectly clear=2C but is this 1-1/4" dimensi
on really needed? The > >> Kitfox seems to work ok with the 5/8" overlap=2C
and this is the > >> first time we've (I've=2C at least) heard of the turt
ledeck blowing > >> out...or is it? Somebody with more time in type and on
this list > >> should be able to answer this question. Is there a Service >
>> Bulletin out on the Kitfox? Remember this is an Avid Service > >> Bulle
tin. I'm not saying anything bad about Avids=2C just trying to > >> underst
and why no SB on a Kitfox=2C if indeed there are none.> >>> >> Next is the
history of this particular plane. Just the other day > >> we had a flutter
problem on this plane. Now we've got a > >> turtledeck trying to exit the p
lane. How about thinking a bit > >> further into this plane=2C and wonderin
g if maybe the plane was > >> sold because it exhibited some of these stran
ge behaviors. How > >> about a weak framework? How about a broken tube join
t somewhere > >> hidden from normal view that would allow the framework to
flex? > >> Did the new owner take the seats out=2C and look for any new wel
ds=2C > >> or broken ones? Are all the camlocks present and accounted > >>
for?...my plane has 9 of them holding the t'deck on...factory > >> count. A
re they tight? How thick is the windshield/skylight > >> material? How many
machine screws hold the rear of the skylight > >> in place=2C or are they
rivets as the Kitfox and the Avid drawings > >> show? I chose to use machin
e screws and nutplates on my > >> installation after I read of so many buil
ders needing to replace > >> windshields/skylights due to crazing/cracks=2C
etc. That might > >> account for some of the strength in that area that my
plane > >> apparently exhibits.> >>> >> Remember this is a recently sold/p
urchased airplane....maybe the > >> buyer need to do more than kick the tir
es and light 'er up.> >>> >> Lynn Matteson> >> Kitfox IV Speedster=2C taild
ragger> >> Jabiru 2200=2C #2062=2C 605 hrs> >> Sensenich 62x46> >> Electroa
ir direct-fire ignition system> >> New skis done and flying> >>> >>> > > __
______________________________ Message 4> _________________________________
____> > > Time: 05:31:38 AM PST US> From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: what prop is the best=2Cfor a 582> > > I thought
that common wisdom was to not use a wooden prop on a float- > equipped air
plane. Maybe the key word here is "wisdom".> > Lynn Matteson> Kitfox IV Spe
edster=2C taildragger> Jabiru 2200=2C #2062=2C 605 hrs> Sensenich 62x46> El
ectroair direct-fire ignition system> New skis done and flying> > > On Feb
16=2C 2009=2C at 8:00 AM=2C Noel Loveys wrote:> > > Boy thats a good questi
on to get things going... sort of like > > asking what is the best flower
=2C what is the best oiil or the best > > colour scotch brite.... lets not
go there again. Not this early > > in the silly season.> >> >> > I have had
two props on my plane so far and I have another one to > > put on the new
912.> >> >> > The first was a three blade GSC wood prop. It was a little lo
ng > > for the float application and consistently picked up spray in the >
> prop. I was continuously filling and dressing the leading edge. I > > thi
nk that prop had been over tightened at one time as when I set > > the pitc
h and torque down the blades to spec they would always go > > back to the o
riginal setting. When I found out the blades were > > almost fifteen years
time expired I decided to go with another prop.> >> >> > Enter prop #2 an U
L Ivo electric IFA. At first I was a little > > sceptical if thei thin blad
ed prop would be able to pull my float > > plane. I neednt have worried. It
worked perfectly. Being an > > inch or so shorter than the GSC meant it di
dnt lift the spray like > > the GSC so I didnt have the problems of leading
edge pitting. > > There are a few points about this prop.. First it is wor
th your > > time to set the limits on the prop. It takes a little longer bu
t > > will be worth it in the end.> >> > Secondly: This is a composite prop
. It is not as hard a steel so > > you should very carefully follow the ins
tructions on installing the > > prop so as not to damage the blades.> >> >
Next: The connector where the wires run into the hub I found to be > > weak
and several times the contacts came out in flight even though > > the lock
ing screws were in. Dont ask I dont know how. I ended > > up adding a coupl
e of self tapping screws into the connectors to > > snug things up That wor
ked fine.> >> > Finally: the slip rings and brushes are prone to water dama
ge in > > rain. For that reason I always kept but never used a couple of >
> small wrenches that would enable me to turn the brush carrier away > > fr
om the slip rings if I encountered any showers.> >> >> > I think you will g
et lots of replies to this one.> >> >> > Noel> >> >> > From: owner-kitfox-l
ist-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox- > > list-server@matronics.co
m] On Behalf Of Cmflyboy12@aol.com> > Sent: Sunday=2C February 15=2C 2009 1
2:50 PM> > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com> > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: what
prop is the best=2Cfor a 582> >> >> > yes it is=2C I got it backwords.Why I
ask is I=2Cve had a ivo 3 blade > > on a challenger 2 and I liked the way
it adjusted.> >> >> > Need a job? Find an employment agency near you.> >> >
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-Listhttp:// > > forums.matronics
.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution> > ==========
_- > > ======================
============= _- > > contribution_- > > ===
======> > > ________________________________ Message 5> _______
______________________________> > > Time: 06:42:46 AM PST US> From: "Chuck
Popenoe" <cpops@verizon.net>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: New issue=2C tu
rtle deck security> > I just went out and measured the overlap on my Avid A
and it measured > 7/8=94.> I got the AD from Avid while I was building
=2C so I added aluminum strips > both> top and bottom to increase the overl
ap=2C which was originally only about > =BD=94.> This has worked as adv
ertised=2C as I routinely do extreme slips=2C doors > open> and closed=2C w
ith no problem. > > > Pops > > > Checked by AVG. > 2/16/2009> 6:55 AM> > >
________________________________ Message 6> _______________________________
______> > > Time: 06:49:37 AM PST US> From: "Bob Brennan" <matronics@bob.br
ennan.name>> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: New issue=2C turtle deck securit
y> > > It's not the double slash Paul=2C even> http://forums.matronics.com/
files/turtle_deck_603.jpg doesn't work because> the picture is turtle_deck_
132 not turtle_deck_603=2C which apparently does> not exist.> > Bob Brennan
(pedant emeritus) - N717GB> ELSA Repairman=2C inspection rated> 1991 UK Mod
el 2 ELSA Kitfox> Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop> Wrightsville Pa > > -----Ori
ginal Message-----> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com> [mailto:o
wner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Franz -> Merlin GT
> Sent: 15 February 2009 11:11 pm> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: New issue
=2C turtle deck security> > <paul@eucleides.com>> > On Sun=2C February 15
=2C 2009 7:13 pm=2C Tom Jones wrote:> > > Attached is a picture of the insi
de of the leading edge on a Classic 4> turtle deck.> > Note the notch in th
e lower left where it fits around the rear spar carry> through.> > Also the
stiffening angles riveted to the inside of the deck. The camlock> on the s
ide> > near the leading edge.> > The attachment is actaully here:> > <http:
//forums.matronics.com/files/turtle_deck_132.jpg>> > Rather than the improp
erly shown link in the e-mail distributed to the KF> List:> > > Attachments
:> >> > http://forums.matronics.com//files/turtle_deck_603.jpg> > Something
goofy happens when a forum post with a picture gets sent to> e-mail. Notic
e> the extra forward slash in the posted link? Just enough so that the> mat
ronics web> server can't resolve the file location.> > -- > Paul A. Franz>
Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT> Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP> B
ellevue WA> 425.241.1618 Cell> > > ________________________________ Message
7> _____________________________________> > > Time: 07:03:23 AM PST US> Fr
om: charles cook <cookflys@yahoo.com>> Subject: Kitfox-List: Brakes=2C tire
s=2C hubs=2C rotors> > Anyone in need of Matco brakes=2C-new tires=2C hubs
=2C wheels I have listed-s> ome on ebay.-> > Charles Cook > N363KF -582 > A
TL=0A=0A=0A > > ________________________________ Message 8> _________
____________________________> > > Time: 07:35:36 AM PST US> Subject: Kitfox
-List: Re: New issue=2C turtle deck security> From: "Tom Jones" <nahsikhs@e
lltel.net>> > > Just a thought for anyone that installs the Avid turtle dec
k overlap> modification.> You should watch as you fold the wings the first
time to be sure the> aluminum> overlap extension doesn't dig into the top o
f the wing as you swing it back.> You might need to put a slight upward ben
d on each rear corner so the> aluminum> will slide up on the wing fabric.>
> --------> Tom Jones> Classic IV> 503 Rotax=2C 72 inch Two blade Warp> Ell
ensburg=2C WA> > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.
com/viewtopic.php?p=230503#230503> > > ________________________________ M
essage 9> _____________________________________> > > Time: 07:50:03 AM PST
US> From: "Pete Christensen" <apeterchristensen@sbcglobal.net>> Subject: Re
: Kitfox-List: Brakes=2C tires=2C hubs=2C rotors> > I did a search and did
not find the listing.> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: charles cook
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Sent: Monday=2C February 16=2C 2009 8:01
AM> Subject: Kitfox-List: Brakes=2C tires=2C hubs=2C rotors> > > Anyone in
need of Matco brakes=2C new tires=2C hubs=2C wheels I have > listed some on
ebay. > > Charles Cook > N363KF 582 > ATL > > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=> 3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=> 3D> 3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=> 3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=> 3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=> 3D> 3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=>
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=> 3D> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=> 3D> > > ________________________________ Message 10> __
__________________________________> > > Time: 08:59:44 AM PST US> From: pat
rick reilly <patreilly43@hotmail.com>> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: New is
sue=2C turtle deck security> > > Tom=2C Thanks for the heads up on the tu
rtle deck extension.> Do not archivePat ReillyMod 3 582 RebuildRockford=2
C IL> Subject: Kitfox-Li> st: Re: New issue=2C turtle deck security> From
: nahsikhs@elltel.net> Date:> Mon=2C 16 Feb 2009 07:34:52 -0800> To: kitf
ox-list@matronics.com> > --> Ki> tfox-List message posted by: "Tom Jones" <
nahsikhs@elltel.net>> > Just a th> ought for anyone that installs the Avid
turtle deck overlap modification. Y> ou should watch as you fold the wings
the first time to be sure the aluminu> m overlap extension doesn't dig into
the top of the wing as you swing it ba> ck. You might need to put a slight
upward bend on each rear corner so the a> luminum will slide up on the win
g fabric.> > --------> Tom Jones> Classic I> V> 503 Rotax=2C 72 inch Two
blade Warp> Ellensburg=2C WA> > > > > Read this> topic online here:> > ht
tp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230503> =======
==============> > > > > _______________________
_________ Message 11> ____________________________________> > > Time: 09:10
:48 AM PST US> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Adding wing tanks> From: "AKFLYERB
OB" <r.wolfejr@worldnet.att.net>> > > Bob> Looks like John and Debra might
have to chime in.> Sorry for the delay. > I looked thru all my stuff=2C Mod
1=2C 2 and 3 books. I found> instructions for building the wings with the
different tanks > and a letter from Sky Star stating retro fit instructions
had> been sent with the 13 gal tanks but I did not find the > instructions
.> When I installed the 13 gal tk I removed the drag tube and one > rib. mo
ved the short braces over one rib and re-riveted them w/glue.> The tk insta
lled with construction silicone=2C not so flexible. > The wing had had a 6
gal tk.> Bob> > --------> Bob Wolfe..Soldotna=2C Alaska> KF Mod I and III>
> > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p
hp?p=230527#230527> > > ________________________________ Message 12> ____
________________________________> > > Time: 09:37:09 AM PST US> Subject: Ki
tfox-List: Re: New issue=2C turtle deck security> From: "WurlyBird" <james.
t.trizzino@us.army.mil>> > > This on may be a lengthy post:> > Lynn=2C I as
well have started to question the competency of the builder of> this> plan
e. It is a fantastic plane but a few details just seem to be neglected.> >
Notice the omission of the flaperon control horn bushing on the turtle deck
.> > Unfortunately details like this are not apparent until you read the as
sembly> manual.> I am overall pleased with this plane but I suspect that ov
er the years> I will find a few things that upset me.> > So now on to the t
urtle deck=2C I read the assembly manual and my turtle deck> and> wind shie
ld appear to be constructed per the manual=2C which by the way only> calls>
for a 1/4" overlap of the 'deck. This kit was purchased in 1990 and per th
e> instructions there is only 7 DZUS fasteners. And there are stiffeners fu
ll> length. What I found is that CF-46 Skylight Angle is flexible and can b
e> moved> forward. I have also noticed that nothing secures the green house
to the> fuselage> and so in flight the lift over the fuselage pulls the wi
ndow up and> separates> it from the root ribs=2C subsequently this shortens
the overlap on the turtle> deck. I believe that this may be what was the b
iggest contributing factor> to the 'deck popping out.> > So for now I am pl
anning on doing the Avid mod. Any other observations or> input> is apprecia
ted. Has anyone done anything to secure the lexan to the top of> the fuse?
I think that would be the greatest fix but I am not sure the> lexan> could
handle it.> > --------> James> Kitfox 3 / 582 / GSC prop> 4 hrs of instruct
ion and climbing (I solo tomorrow)> > > Read this topic online here:> > htt
p://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230530#230530> > > Attachments:
> > http://forums.matronics.com//files/turtle_deck_822.jpg> http://forums.m
atronics.com//files/manual_extract_121.jpg> > > ___________________________
_____ Message 13> ____________________________________> > > Time: 09:39:30
AM PST US> From: "Bob Brennan" <matronics@bob.brennan.name>> Subject: RE: K
itfox-List: Re: Adding wing tanks> > > I've had a look inside my port wing
and the pix online again and it looks> like I could simply mount two 6 gall
on tanks without removing any struts> only cross braces. The braces are onl
y glued in place and I assume gluing> the tanks and plywood in place will b
e stronger.> > I haven't contacted either wingtanks.com or the McBeans yet
as to which is> better to buy from and/or who sells the better tanks=2C it'
s too bloody cold> here anyway for that kind of work! I do have plenty of s
pace with a barn=2C a> "shed" (large enough to park a plane=2C farm tractor
=2C trailer and boat in at> once)=2C and a large garage but none are enclos
ed enough to heat=3B so it's> off-season for me.> > Bob Brennan - N717GB> E
LSA Repairman=2C inspection rated> 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox taildragger>
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop> Wrightsville Pa > > -----Original Message----
-> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-
server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AKFLYERBOB> Sent: 16 February 2009 12:10
pm> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Adding wing tanks> > > Bob> Looks like John
and Debra might have to chime in.> Sorry for the delay. > I looked thru all
my stuff=2C Mod 1=2C 2 and 3 books. I found> instructions for building the
wings with the different tanks > and a letter from Sky Star stating retro
fit instructions had> been sent with the 13 gal tanks but I did not find th
e > instructions.> When I installed the 13 gal tk I removed the drag tube a
nd one > rib. moved the short braces over one rib and re-riveted them w/glu
e.> The tk installed with construction silicone=2C not so flexible. > The w
ing had had a 6 gal tk.> Bob> > --------> Bob Wolfe..Soldotna=2C Alaska> KF
Mod I and III> > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics
.com/viewtopic.php?p=230527#230527> > > ________________________________
Message 14> ____________________________________> > > Time: 10:31:35 AM PST
US> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: New issue=2C turtle deck security> From: "ak
flyer" <akflyer_2000@yahoo.com>> > > > Tom Jones wrote:> > Just a thought f
or anyone that installs the Avid turtle deck overlap> modification.> You sh
ould watch as you fold the wings the first time to be sure the> aluminum> o
verlap extension doesn't dig into the top of the wing as you swing it> back
. You might need to put a slight upward bend on each rear corner so the> al
uminum> will slide up on the wing fabric.> > > VERY good point=2C and one I
did not think about. The first time I folded the> wings=2C> it was apparen
t that it was going to hit. I cut each side at about a 45> deg. angle and r
ounded the corners so it would not hit. GREAT catch!> > Whurly=2C on my avi
d=2C it has a partial rib across the center of the skylight> (greenhouse)>
that has rivets in it to keep the screen from ballooning up just as you> ha
ve shown on the drawing you attached. May be an easy fix for you to add> it
if you so desire. I can get a good pic of how Avid did it if you are> inte
rested.> The only drawback to it=2C is now I cant hang my head set over the
center> cross bar like I can on my Brothers KF II.> > --------> DO NOT ARC
HIVE> Leonard Perry aka SNAKE> Soldotna AK> Avid "=3BC"=3B / Mk IV
> 582 IVO IFA> Full Lotus 1260> #1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009> > ha
nder outer of humorless darwin awards> > > Read this topic online here:> >
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230540#230540> > > __________
______________________ Message 15> ____________________________________> >
> Time: 10:31:55 AM PST US> From: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>> Subject:
Re: Kitfox-List: Re: New issue=2C turtle deck security> > > At 09:36 AM 2/1
6/2009=2C you wrote:> >Has anyone done anything to secure the lexan to the
top of the > >fuse? I think that would be the greatest fix but I am not sur
e the > >lexan could handle it.> > James=2C> You mean it's not secured AT A
LL? Mine is secured on the > perimeter=2C about every 2" with screws into f
loating nut plates. > There's a set of ribs on the sides=2C and the aluminu
m angle in the > back. Down the fore and aft centerline there's a "T"=2C bu
t the > skylight just rests on it=3B there are no fasteners.> > > Guy Bucha
nan> San Diego=2C CA> K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done=2C thanks mostly
to Bob Ducar. > > > ________________________________ Message 16> _________
___________________________> > > Time: 10:33:50 AM PST US> Subject: Kitfox-
List: Re: New issue=2C turtle deck security> From: "akflyer" <akflyer_2000@
yahoo.com>> > > > WurlyBird wrote:> > This on may be a lengthy post:> > > >
Lynn=2C I as well have started to question the competency of the builder o
f> this> plane. It is a fantastic plane but a few details just seem to be n
eglected.> Notice the omission of the flaperon control horn bushing on the
turtle deck.> Unfortunately details like this are not apparent until you re
ad the assembly> manual. I am overall pleased with this plane but I suspect
that over the> years> I will find a few things that upset me.> > > > So no
w on to the turtle deck=2C I read the assembly manual and my turtle> deck a
nd> wind shield appear to be constructed per the manual=2C which by the way
only> calls for a 1/4" overlap of the 'deck. This kit was purchased in 199
0 and> per> the instructions there is only 7 DZUS fasteners. And there are
stiffeners> full> length. What I found is that CF-46 Skylight Angle is flex
ible and can be> moved> forward. I have also noticed that nothing secures t
he green house to the> fuselage and so in flight the lift over the fuselage
pulls the window up and> separates it from the root ribs=2C subsequently t
his shortens the overlap on> the> turtle deck. I believe that this may be w
hat was the biggest contributing> factor> to the 'deck popping out.> > > >
So for now I am planning on doing the Avid mod. Any other observations or>
input> is appreciated. Has anyone done anything to secure the lexan to the
top of> the fuse? I think that would be the greatest fix but I am not sure
the> lexan> could handle it.> > > I think you have have just figured out wh
ere your flutter came from...> without> the bearing blocks in the turtle de
ck=2C I would put money on it that the> flutter> started right there. It is
VERY specific in the Avid manual to put them in> and not doing so can lead
to flutter. It is also specific that it needs to> be> touching on the top
not letting it flop around at all.> > --------> DO NOT ARCHIVE> Leonard Per
ry aka SNAKE> Soldotna AK> Avid "=3BC"=3B / Mk IV > 582 IVO IFA> Fu
ll Lotus 1260> #1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009> > hander outer of hum
orless darwin awards> > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.mat
ronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230542#230542> > > ___________________________
_____ Message 17> ____________________________________> > > Time: 10:59:44
AM PST US> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: New issue=2C turtle deck security>
From: "Paul Franz - Merlin GT" <paul@eucleides.com>> > > > On Mon=2C Febru
ary 16=2C 2009 6:48 am=2C Bob Brennan wrote:> >> > It's not the double slas
h Paul=2C even> > http://forums.matronics.com/files/turtle_deck_603.jpg doe
sn't work because> > the picture is turtle_deck_132 not turtle_deck_603=2C
which apparently does> > not exist.> > Oops=2C my bad. I at least noticed t
hat the link was wrong in the e-mail and> got> the> correct one from the fo
rum. I've seen this problem happen before too. I> think Matt> Dralle out to
upgrade to the latest version of phpBB. It's running 2.0 and> version> 3>
with a lot of bug fixes and enhancements is out now.> > > >> > Bob Brennan(
pedant emeritus) - N717GB> > ELSA Repairman=2C inspection rated> > 1991 UK
Model 2 ELSA Kitfox> > Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop> > Wrightsville Pa> >> >
-----Original Message-----> > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Franz
-> > Merlin GT> > Sent: 15 February 2009 11:11 pm> > To: kitfox-list@matro
nics.com> > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: New issue=2C turtle deck security
> >> > <paul@eucleides.com>> >> > On Sun=2C February 15=2C 2009 7:13 pm=2C
Tom Jones wrote:> >> >> Attached is a picture of the inside of the leading
edge on a Classic 4> > turtle deck.> >> Note the notch in the lower left wh
ere it fits around the rear spar carry> > through.> >> Also the stiffening
angles riveted to the inside of the deck. The> camlock> > on the side> >> n
ear the leading edge.> >> > The attachment is actaully here:> >> > <http://
forums.matronics.com/files/turtle_deck_132.jpg>> >> > Rather than the impro
perly shown link in the e-mail distributed to the KF> > List:> >> >> Attach
ments:> >>> >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/turtle_deck_603.jpg> >> >
Something goofy happens when a forum post with a picture gets sent to> > e
-mail. Notice> > the extra forward slash in the posted link? Just enough so
that the> > matronics web> > server can't resolve the file location.> >> >
--> > Paul A. Franz> > Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT> > Engine/P
rop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP> > Bellevue WA> > 425.241.1618 Cell> >> >> > > -- >
Paul Franz> 425.440.9505 (O)> 425.241.1618 (C)> > > ______________________
__________ Message 18> ____________________________________> > > Time: 11:2
1:17 AM PST US> Subject: Kitfox-List: Adjusting control stick?> From: "815T
L" <lawrenceaw@corning.com>> > > Hey guys=2C quick question. The stick in m
y plane seems to be quite far> forward=2C> even when in straight and level
flihgt. It feels like I need longer arms to> reach it. There appears to be
a way to adjust the stick position=2C but I am> not> sure if I should. I wo
uld like to pull it back a little=2C but I don't want> to> limit the travel
of the elevator upards. It seems if I adjust it=2C it will> hit> the seat/
cushions sooner=2C limiting elevator travel.> > What is the best way to cha
nge this?> > Andrew=2C> 815TL=2C Kitfox II=2C Rotax 582-C> > > Read this to
pic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230550#23
0550> > > ________________________________ Message 19> ____________________
________________> > > Time: 11:23:20 AM PST US> From: Lynn Matteson <lynnma
tt@jps.net>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: New issue=2C turtle deck securit
y> > Omigod=2C yes=2C there should be fasteners all along the butt ribs to
> hold the skylight/greenhouse down...at least on a IV=2C and I'd think > o
n a III as well. My plans call for:> "If you're certain it's positioned pro
perly (square at the back edge > and .4" aft of the #52903 spacer)=2C lay o
ut=2C drill #30 holes and cleco > along the butat ribs using a 2" spacing 1
/4" in from the capstrip > inner edge."> > The #52903 spacer is the CF-24 s
pacer. So Skystar only allowed for > 0.4" of skylight overlapping the t'dec
k. But the key to this whole > scenario is the screwing down=2C or riveting
down=2C of the skylight/ > greenhouse to the butt ribs. I can't believe th
is was not done. I > just re-read my instructions for mounting the windshie
ld=2C and > although Skystar tells you to drill and cleco along the butt ri
bs=2C > they don't tell you to go ahead and actually do the riveting...DUH!
> Again=2C I was concerned with all the problems that the group was > havi
ng with windshields cracking and crazing=2C and elected to install > nutpla
tes and machine screws along the butt ribs. A> picture is below...this pict
ure is rotated 90 degrees clockwise.> > > Another question=2C James....does
your plane have the center rib? This > is called the #27005 Skylight Rib
=2C and because it doesn't have a > corresponding CF-XX number=2C it may ha
ve been a Model IV and later > addition/option. This is just a support for
the skylight as it is not > riveted to the skylight.> > > I wholeheartedly
agree with your assessment of the reason for the > 'deck popping out.> > Ly
nn Matteson> Kitfox IV Speedster=2C taildragger> Jabiru 2200=2C #2062=2C 60
5 hrs> Sensenich 62x46> Electroair direct-fire ignition system> New skis do
ne and flying> > > On Feb 16=2C 2009=2C at 12:36 PM=2C WurlyBird wrote:> >
> <james.t.trizzino@us.army.mil>> >> > This on may be a lengthy post:> >> >
Lynn=2C I as well have started to question the competency of the > > build
er of this plane. It is a fantastic plane but a few details > > just seem t
o be neglected. Notice the omission of the flaperon > > control horn bushin
g on the turtle deck. Unfortunately details > > like this are not apparent
until you read the assembly manual. I > > am overall pleased with this plan
e but I suspect that over the > > years I will find a few things that upset
me.> >> > So now on to the turtle deck=2C I read the assembly manual and m
y > > turtle deck and wind shield appear to be constructed per the > > manu
al=2C which by the way only calls for a 1/4" overlap of the > > 'deck. This
kit was purchased in 1990 and per the instructions > > there is only 7 DZU
S fasteners. And there are stiffeners full > > length. What I found is that
CF-46 Skylight Angle is flexible and > > can be moved forward. I have also
noticed that nothing secures the > > green house to the fuselage and so in
flight the lift over the > > fuselage pulls the window up and separates it
from the root ribs=2C > > subsequently this shortens the overlap on the tu
rtle deck. I > > believe that this may be what was the biggest contributing
factor > > to the 'deck popping out.> >> > So for now I am planning on doi
ng the Avid mod. Any other > > observations or input is appreciated. Has an
yone done anything to > > secure the lexan to the top of the fuse? I think
that would be the > > greatest fix but I am not sure the lexan could handle
it.> >> > --------> > James> > Kitfox 3 / 582 / GSC prop> > 4 hrs of instr
uction and climbing (I solo tomorrow)> >> > > _____________________________
___ Message 20> ____________________________________> > > Time: 12:27:55 PM
PST US> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: New issue=2C turtle deck security> From:
"WurlyBird" <james.t.trizzino@us.army.mil>> > > Again one of those things
that you just don't realize unless you get to see> a good> KF example for c
omparison=2C and then there is the manual=2C which admittedly> I misunderst
ood. As you can see in the pictures the green house is secured> to> aluminu
m strips along the top of the butt ribs. From top to bottom it goes=3B> riv
et=2C nylon washer=2C lexan=2C self adhesive felt strip=2C aluminum bar=2C
other> end> of rivet. This sits on another strip of adhesive backed felt on
top of the> cap> strip. There is a center rib but it is not secured to the
lexan=2C it has a> felt> strip on it as well as per the instruction manual
. i suppose this was the> builders idea of making the window easy to switch
out instead of using> screws> like you Lynn. It looks like I am going to b
e grounded until I can get a> new> piece of lexan. At this point I think if
I completely replace the lexan and> secure it properly I will be in good s
hape. I will probably increase the> overhang> a little since I will be repl
acing it anyway. Looks like the solo and> rating> will be waiting a little
longer. This sucks but it will also give me time> to get those bushings mad
e and installed. And to think=2C we bought an> already> built plane so we c
ould spend more time flying then building. [Rolling Eyes]> > --------> Jame
s> Kitfox 3 / 582 / GSC prop> 4 hrs of instruction and climbing (I solo tom
orrow)> > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/vie
wtopic.php?p=230555#230555> > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.
com//files/greenhouse2_163.jpg> http://forums.matronics.com//files/greenhou
se1_133.jpg> > > ________________________________ Message 21> _____________
_______________________> > > Time: 02:18:52 PM PST US> From: Guy Buchanan <
bnn@nethere.com>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Adjusting control stick?> > > A
t 11:20 AM 2/16/2009=2C you wrote:> >I would like to pull it back a little
=2C but I don't want to limit the > >travel of the elevator upards. It seem
s if I adjust it=2C it will hit > >the seat/cushions sooner=2C limiting ele
vator travel.> > Andrew=2C> My stick follows an S-bend=2C and you're right
=2C it hits the > cushions which are heavily cut back. I've seen sticks tha
t were a > graceful bent curve aft 90 degrees=2C then a hard 90 up for the
handle. > This latter was welded on. They provide the maximum clearance for
height.> > > Guy Buchanan> San Diego=2C CA> K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100
% done=2C thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. > > > _______________________________
_ Message 22> ____________________________________> > > Time: 02:20:56 PM P
ST US> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Brakes=2C tires=2C hubs=2C rotors> From: "
Tom Jones" <nahsikhs@elltel.net>> > > I found them.> http://cgi.ebay.com/eb
aymotors/aircraft-brakes-wheels-tires-hubs-axels_W0QQc> mdZViewItemQQ_trkpa
rmsZ72Q3a570Q7c66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a12Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c3> 01Q3a0Q7c293Q3a1
Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem330308312806> QQitemZ330308
312806QQptZMotorsQ5fAviationQ5fPartsQ5fGear> > I'd bid if it was just the w
heels.> > --------> Tom Jones> Classic IV> 503 Rotax=2C 72 inch Two blade W
arp> Ellensburg=2C WA> > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.ma
tronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230570#230570> > > __________________________
______ Message 23> ____________________________________> > > Time: 02:33:40
PM PST US> From: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List:
Re: New issue=2C turtle deck security> > > At 12:25 PM 2/16/2009=2C you wr
ote:> >As you can see in the pictures the green house is secured to > >alum
inum strips along the top of the butt ribs. From top to bottom > >it goes
=3B rivet=2C nylon washer=2C lexan=2C self adhesive felt strip=2C > >alumin
um bar=2C other end of rivet. This sits on another strip of > >adhesive bac
ked felt on top of the cap strip.> > Man that's weird. And I'd say it's def
initely what caused > the lift. If your butt ribs aren't yet drilled you co
uld probably get > away with re-using the skylight. Just set the Lexan down
onto the > felt on top of the butt ribs and match drill. Be careful=2C tho
ugh. I > had a lot of trouble getting the nut plates to sit perpendicular t
o > the skylight due to the way the butt ribs were made. There was a bit >
of a fillet between the rib cap and rib. I had to Dremel a little > flat pa
d for each one. It was a real pain with the ribs already in place.> > > Guy
Buchanan> San Diego=2C CA> K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done=2C thanks
mostly to Bob Ducar. > > > ________________________________ Message 24> ___
_________________________________> > > Time: 03:41:37 PM PST US> Subject: K
itfox-List: Re: New issue=2C turtle deck security> From: "WurlyBird" <james
.t.trizzino@us.army.mil>> > > Hey Lynn=2C are those 6-32 anchor nuts you us
ed? How did you go about> attaching> them? I have ordered a new piece of le
xan and I think it might be best to> attach> it like you did since if i eve
r work out all the bugs I might keep this> plane> for a while.> > -------->
James> Kitfox 3 / 582 / GSC prop> 4 hrs of instruction and climbing (I sol
o tomorrow)> > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.co
m/viewtopic.php?p=230579#230579> > > ________________________________ Mes
sage 25> ____________________________________> > > Time: 07:40:45 PM PST US
> From: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: what
prop is the best=2Cfor a 582> > > I agree with you on that one but the GSC
was on the plane when I got it.> > Noel> > -----Original Message-----> Fro
m: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server
@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson> Sent: Monday=2C February 16=2C
2009 9:59 AM> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: what prop is the best=2Cfor a 582>
> > I thought that common wisdom was to not use a wooden prop on a float- >
equipped airplane. Maybe the key word here is "wisdom".> > Lynn Matteson>
Kitfox IV Speedster=2C taildragger> Jabiru 2200=2C #2062=2C 605 hrs> Sensen
ich 62x46> Electroair direct-fire ignition system> New skis done and flying
> > > On Feb 16=2C 2009=2C at 8:00 AM=2C Noel Loveys wrote:> > > Boy that's
a good question to get things going... sort of like > > asking what is the
best flower=2C what is the best oiil or the best > > colour scotch brite..
.. let's not go there again. Not this early > > in the silly season.> >> >>
> I have had two props on my plane so far and I have another one to > > pu
t on the new 912.> >> >> > The first was a three blade GSC wood prop. It wa
s a little long > > for the float application and consistently picked up sp
ray in the > > prop. I was continuously filling and dressing the leading ed
ge. I > > think that prop had been over tightened at one time as when I set
> > the pitch and torque down the blades to spec they would always go > >
back to the original setting. When I found out the blades were > > almost f
ifteen years time expired I decided to go with another prop.> >> >> > Enter
prop #2 an UL Ivo electric IFA. At first I was a little > > sceptical if t
hei thin bladed prop would be able to pull my float > > plane. I needn't ha
ve worried. It worked perfectly. Being an > > inch or so shorter than the G
SC meant it didn't lift the spray like > > the GSC so I didn't have the pro
blems of leading edge pitting. > > There are a few points about this prop..
First it is worth your > > time to set the limits on the prop. It takes a
little longer but > > will be worth it in the end.> >> > Secondly: This is
a composite prop. It is not as hard a steel so > > you should very carefull
y follow the instructions on installing the > > prop so as not to damage th
e blades.> >> > Next: The connector where the wires run into the hub I foun
d to be > > weak and several times the contacts came out in flight even tho
ugh > > the locking screws were in. Don't ask I don't know how. I ended > >
up adding a couple of self tapping screws into the connectors to > > snug
things up That worked fine.> >> > Finally: the slip rings and brushes are p
rone to water damage in > > rain. For that reason I always kept but never u
sed a couple of > > small wrenches that would enable me to turn the brush c
arrier away > > from the slip rings if I encountered any showers.> >> >> >
I think you will get lots of replies to this one.> >> >> > Noel> >> >> > Fr
om: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox- > > list-s
erver@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cmflyboy12@aol.com> > Sent: Sunday=2C Feb
ruary 15=2C 2009 12:50 PM> > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com> > Subject: Re:
Kitfox-List: what prop is the best=2Cfor a 582> >> >> > yes it is=2C I got
it backwords.Why I ask is I=2Cve had a ivo 3 blade > > on a challenger 2 an
d I liked the way it adjusted.> >> >> > Need a job? Find an employment agen
cy near you.> >> > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-Listhttp:// >
> forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution> > ====
====== _- > > ================
=================== _- > > contributi
on_- > > ======================
============> > > ________________________________
Message 26> ____________________________________> > > Time: 08:57:23 PM PST
US> From: Marco Menezes <msm_9949@yahoo.com>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re
: New issue=2C turtle deck security> > James=2C> -> On my Model 2 the lexan
overlaps the turtledeck about 5/8". Never had any p> roblems with it but i
t is attached to butt ribs and rear carry-through tube> as specified. Curre
ntly attached with sheet metal screws every 2 inches bu> t when I replace t
he lexan (next Winter probably) I'm considering rivnuts a> nd machine screw
s in the butt ribs.> -> Marco Menezes N99KX> Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1 w/clu
tch> > --- On Sun=2C 2/15/09=2C WurlyBird <james.t.trizzino@us.army.mil> wr
ote:> > From: WurlyBird <james.t.trizzino@us.army.mil>> Subject: Kitfox-Lis
t: Re: New issue=2C turtle deck security> > <james.t.trizzino@us.army.mil>>
> I re-read it two more times=2C everything is indicating that the minimum
requ> ired> 1 1/4" is measured from the front of FC-3. Do you have 1 1/4"
of> lexan that overlaps the turtle deck? Can I get a quick poll on this fro
m a> few> people? I can certainly see that the extra would help keep everyt
hing toge> ther.> > --------> James> Kitfox 3 / 582 / GSC prop> 4 hrs of in
struction and climbing (I solo tomorrow)> > > Read this topic online here:>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230377#230377> > > Attachm
ents: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/avid_clip_189.jpg> > > =0A
=======================> > >
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: New issue, turtle deck security |
Well here is an update that is pretty good news, well at least I now know the builder
was not a complete moron. It seems the green house lexan was in fact installed
into the butt ribs, however the rivets were simple secured into the wood
and they seemed to work their way out. I plan to use washers for backing
if I use rivets to secure the new lexan. I am considering using screws instead.
I noticed that the manual calls for aluminum rivets for this assembly, I assume
this means that AN hardware would not be necessary and it would be no issue
to just use some nice SS hardware.
--------
James
Kitfox 3 / 582 / GSC prop
4 hrs of instruction and climbing (I solo tomorrow)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230781#230781
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Greenhouse construction |
I'm no structural engineer, or an engineer of any kind (I've got
enough problems without being burdened with the massive ego of an
engineer) except "seat of the pants" engineering, but I'll bet the
installation of anchor nuts, especially the long version...the
K1000's, not the MK1000's...will distribute the load just as good
(well?) as the stainless steel or aluminum strip that I've read about
here. How thick is this strip, and is it SS or aluminum?
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
New skis done and flying
On Feb 17, 2009, at 7:48 PM, patrick reilly wrote:
> Ed, I have to agree with Lynn. On my Model 3 the center rib is
> definitely not a structual rib. I would be afraid to attach the
> lexan to it. And, as someone else mentioned rivets in the outside
> ribs are easier and faster than screws with nuts. I need to check
> mine to see if there is the stainless steel strip on the bottom
> side of the rib, similar to the ribs in the wing. I have my cabin
> top on already and I don't think there is the metal strip on the
> bottom of the rib. I am afraid my rivets are only through wood. Do
> you guys have the metal strip on the bottom side of the outside ribs?
>
> Pat Reilly
> Mod 3 582 Rebuild
> Rockford, IL
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: New issue, turtle deck security |
The fact that the rivets have pulled through the wood seems to me to
call for a load-spreading modification.....say something like a
(humor me) MK1000 anchor nut for instance. Sorry, I've been watching
"House" on the tube, and I'm picking up his grating personality. : )
Seriously though, James, that is good news that you found that the
builder followed some directions. If you are going the "hardware
store" option for replacement hardware, you might consider "T-nuts" I
believe they are called...nuts that are stamped metal with a large
washer head with little spikes to prevent rotation in the wood of the
butt rib capstrip. This would allow for easier removal in case things
don't work out with the old windshield/skylight. Not as good in my
opinion as the anchor nuts, because the anchor nuts have the self-
locking feature which the T-nuts do not...could use loctite with the
T-nuts, I suppose. I'd like to use an aircraft fastener or something
a bit more elegant than the T-nuts myself.
Remember too, that the wood in this area has been compromised by the
wood fibers being stretched and torn by the rivets being torn through
the wood, so I'd certainly go beyond just fixing the problem,
whatever that entails.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
New skis done and flying
On Feb 17, 2009, at 8:56 PM, WurlyBird wrote:
> <james.t.trizzino@us.army.mil>
>
> Well here is an update that is pretty good news, well at least I
> now know the builder was not a complete moron. It seems the green
> house lexan was in fact installed into the butt ribs, however the
> rivets were simple secured into the wood and they seemed to work
> their way out. I plan to use washers for backing if I use rivets
> to secure the new lexan. I am considering using screws instead. I
> noticed that the manual calls for aluminum rivets for this
> assembly, I assume this means that AN hardware would not be
> necessary and it would be no issue to just use some nice SS hardware.
>
> --------
> James
> Kitfox 3 / 582 / GSC prop
> 4 hrs of instruction and climbing (I solo tomorrow)
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230781#230781
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Fuel sight tube material? |
We are in the process of installing the fuel sight tubes for our Model IV that
we received in a kit in the late 90's. The tubes are made of Butyrate. While researching
installation examples I found a web site building log of a guy building
a Model 6 with the Butyrate tubes. He said that after a few months auto
gas had ate through the Butyrate tubes so he replaced them with Tygon. My question
is...
what is the current recommendation for tubing material? Should I use the Butyrate
or something else?
link to web log about the Butyrate getting eaten by auto gas. http://www.itsys3.com/kitfox/discover.shtml
Thanks all
--------
Chris Wehner
Tulsa, Oklahoma
Kitfox IV, 912, lots a mod's, 80% complete
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230799#230799
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: New issue, turtle deck security |
I would not use SS rivits=2C because they will pull up a lot tighter than a
luminum rivits and I would worry that it would mess with the expantion of t
he lexan leading to cracking. I did use 1/8" washers on the bottom of the
aluminum rivits (that I bought from Fastenall) so they wouldn't pull throug
h the butt rib. Just my 2 cents worth. Jim Chuk Avid MK IV Mn> Subject:
Kitfox-List: Re: New issue=2C turtle deck security> From: james.t.trizzino
@us.army.mil> Date: Tue=2C 17 Feb 2009 17:56:57 -0800> To: kitfox-list@matr
no@us.army.mil>> > Well here is an update that is pretty good news=2C well
at least I now know the builder was not a complete moron. It seems the gree
n house lexan was in fact installed into the butt ribs=2C however the rivet
s were simple secured into the wood and they seemed to work their way out.
I plan to use washers for backing if I use rivets to secure the new lexan.
I am considering using screws instead. I noticed that the manual calls for
aluminum rivets for this assembly=2C I assume this means that AN hardware w
ould not be necessary and it would be no issue to just use some nice SS har
dware.> > --------> James> Kitfox 3 / 582 / GSC prop> 4 hrs of instruction
and climbing (I solo tomorrow)> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > htt
=============> > >
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Message 20
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The yellow tygon tubing that came with my model IV in 1991 and has been
in
storage (in my garage) for 18 years is oozing a thick sticky oily
substance.
So much so that the piece of tygon that I had as a sight tube on the
wing
tank dripped the oily excretion down on to the fabric below soaking
through
the fabric and making the polytone below it sticky. (the tanks have
never
had anything in them).
Has anyone had experience with old tygon like this? Is this what happens
when tygon gets old?
Clem
Oklahoma
Mod IV-912
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