Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:27 AM - Re: rudder trim tab (Lynn Matteson)
2. 03:55 AM - Re: rudder trim tab (KITFOXZ@aol.com)
3. 04:50 AM - Re: Cutting 2/12in. hole in Plexiglass doors (Catz631@aol.com)
4. 04:59 AM - Re: rudder trim tab (JC Propeller Design)
5. 05:05 AM - Re: Re: Stuck Oil FilterStuck Oil Filter (Catz631@aol.com)
6. 05:21 AM - Re: Re: Yahoo news article - The Great Ethanol Scam (Noel)
7. 05:21 AM - Re: Runaway plane - serious mishap - throttle cable (Catz631@aol.com)
8. 06:19 AM - Re: Runaway plane - serious mishap - throttle cable (teresa, paul morel)
9. 06:24 AM - Re: Cutting 2/12in. hole in Plexiglass doors (Tom Jones)
10. 06:28 AM - Re: Cutting 2/12in. hole in Plexiglass doors (Tom Jones)
11. 06:31 AM - Re: rudder trim tab (Paul Franz - Merlin GT)
12. 06:37 AM - Re: Re: Yahoo news article - The Great Ethanol Scam (Bob Brennan)
13. 06:39 AM - Re: Kitfox - how high have you gone ? (Tom Jones)
14. 07:34 AM - Re: rudder trim tab (william lurcott)
15. 07:47 AM - Re: rudder trim tab (Tom Jones)
16. 07:53 AM - Re: Runaway plane - serious mishap - throttle cable (Lowell Fitt)
17. 08:11 AM - Re: Runaway plane - serious mishap - throttle cable (Lowell Fitt)
18. 08:36 AM - Re: rudder trim tab (Lynn Matteson)
19. 09:09 AM - Re: rudder trim tab (JC Propeller Design)
20. 09:09 AM - Re: Re: Kitfox - how high have you gone ? (icaza francisco)
21. 09:46 AM - trim tab (Ron Liebmann)
22. 10:37 AM - Re: rudder trim tab (Michel Verheughe)
23. 12:06 PM - Re: Re: rudder trim tab (Lynn Matteson)
24. 12:10 PM - Re: trim tab (Lynn Matteson)
25. 01:40 PM - Re: Kitfox - how high have you gone ? (Guy Buchanan)
26. 02:00 PM - Re: Re: rudder trim tab (JC Propeller Design)
27. 02:48 PM - Re: rudder trim tab (Michel Verheughe)
28. 03:19 PM - Re: Re: Yahoo news article - The Great Ethanol Scam (Dwight Purdy)
29. 04:05 PM - Re: Re: Yahoo news article - The Great Ethanol Scam (Bob Brennan)
30. 04:37 PM - isogonic lines - semantics (Paul Franz - Merlin GT)
31. 07:39 PM - Re: Re: rudder trim tab (Noel)
32. 08:26 PM - Re: New Product Announcement (Enea Grande)
33. 10:55 PM - Re: isogonic lines - semantics (JC Propeller Design)
34. 11:12 PM - Re: Kitfox - how high have you gone ? (Michael Gibbs)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: rudder trim tab |
Hi Jan-
I understand the compensation for wind effect by altering the course,
but what got me to thinking about the cockpit-adjustable rudder trim
tab, is that lately I've been playing around with changing speed of
flight by reducing my rpm so that I see less fuel consumption (as
revealed by my fuel flow gauge), and as a result I have noticed that
the ball is slightly off-center at times. I thought that because I
have a ground-adjustable rudder tab right now, which I understand is
only good for a certain speed for any particular setting, that it
would be good to have the cockpit-adjustable rudder tab. Is this not so?
I almost always fly alone, and my fuel usage is pretty even from tank
to tank...that is, side to side, with the 13 gallon tanks in each wing.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 655.4 hrs
Sensenich 62x46 Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Status: flying
On May 19, 2009, at 2:02 AM, JC Propeller Design wrote:
> <propellerdesign@tele2.se>
>
> Lynn,
>
> you do not compensate for crosswind with the trim tab, you move
> along with the mass of air (steady air) at the same speed as it
> blows, if you don't go directly in to the wind or with the wind,
> you have to compensate for the drift over ground by alter your course.
>
> The rudder compensate for propeller effect and different aileron
> drag from left side to right side when airplane is unbalanced in
> weight distribution (fuel or people)
>
> The trim tab just take the load off the controls.
>
> Jan
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 2:35 AM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: rudder trim tab
>
>
>>
>> Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't one reason to use the rudder
>> trim to counteract, for instance, a crosswind while flying, thus
>> removing the necessity to hold a little rudder to keep the ball
>> centered? At least that's what I thought I was doing in building
>> a cockpit- controlled trim tab.
>>
>> Lynn Matteson
>> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
>> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 655.4 hrs
>> Sensenich 62x46 Wood prop
>> Electroair direct-fire ignition system
>> Status: flying
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On May 18, 2009, at 6:51 PM, KITFOXZ@aol.com wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Will,
>>>
>>> My Ship is not yet flying but I wanted to chime in on this
>>> thread. I have always believed that an airplane should be built
>>> to fly straight and level first. My model building days (and
>>> my aeronautical engineer father) taught me to pay particular
>>> attention to true alignment and close to perfect airfoils in all
>>> aspects of building. A banana shaped fuselage is a curse one
>>> never will overcome. A warped wing will be more and more of a
>>> liability as the ship picks up speed in it's death spiral to
>>> mother earth.
>>>
>>> With a straight and true airframe accomplished first, the
>>> builder next tackles an engine mount. The engine's propeller
>>> will cause a torque turn in the opposite direction of the prop
>>> rotation. A shim in the engine mount is the best way to fix the
>>> problem in my book. I don't like the idea of having to change
>>> more than a little pitch trim when the engine quits. An
>>> airplane should glide straight in my opinion. If the engine
>>> quits, your hands are already full and I don't want to have to
>>> be standing on some rudder too, trying to overcome my trim tab.
>>>
>>> Actually, isn't a washer or two under the left engine mount to
>>> firewall points a heck of a lot easier than fabricating a trim
>>> tab? It's a lot less ugly!
>>>
>>> OK, I apologize, John, Lowell, Lynn, your trim tabs are
>>> beautiful but, isn't a simple washer for a little right thrust a
>>> solution to the point?
>>>
>>> If the airplane fly's straight and true naturally and as you add
>>> power the right thrust becomes more and more effective to
>>> counteract the very torque turn you are trying to kill in the
>>> first place. Isn't this a solution near to God and the birds?
>>>
>>> Dang propellers anyway!
>>>
>>> John
>>> John P. Marzluf
>>> Columbus, Ohio
>>> Outback (out back in the garage)
>>>
>>>
>>> In a message dated 5/17/2009 3:03:29 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>>> lurcottstudios@yahoo.com writes:
>>> Greetings,
>>> I have been reading the list here for a while, and want to take
>>> the opportunity to say thanks to all of you. I have a Series V
>>> with a Lycoming O-235 which is a great source of fun and unending
>>> lessons for me. There is one issue that I have, and that is that
>>> I must always input right rudder. I expect that at higher power
>>> settings, but at cruise? Anyway, I was wondering since the
>>> aircraft is already covered and flying is there some add-on type
>>> tab that I could affix to the rudder so that I don't have to
>>> constantly push on that right side. Cruise requires about 3-4
>>> pounds or so of pressure. If someone has a photo or drawing, I
>>> would appreciate that too, as I am very visual. Thanks for any
>>> input.
>>> Will Lurcott
>>> Series V
>>> Lyc O-235
>>> Flagler Beach, FL
>>>
>>> ==================================== href="http://
>>> www.matronics.com/ Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://
>>> www.matron====================================
>>> ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
>>> ==================================== tp://www.matronics.com/
>>> contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>> ===================================
>>>
>>> A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps!
>>> www.matronics.com/contribution _-
>>> ===========================================================
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
>> signature database 4083 (20090518) __________
>>
>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: rudder trim tab |
Lowell,
Now THIS IS JUST TOO COOL!!! I will be anxious to find out how effective
it will be. Did you reject the idea of putting it in the vertical
stabilizer? --Would be more effective and to the point I think. In the photo,
it
looks like it may be a bit shy on camber changing moment. Do you think it
will be enough? --Or are you trying to approach it from a conservative
position just to prove the concept? Perhaps I just don't see the potential
deflection amount from this angle. --Although it shouldn't take much. We
can't wait! Put that rudder on someone else's bird that is already flying to
get the thing producing some numbers! Why aren't you working with the
Rutan's? You are a genious!
BTW, The new Boeing 787 has a feature that is interesting: "Variable
Camber Wing Trailing Edges"???
Can't wait to learn more about these!
John
John P. Marzluf
Columbus, Ohio
Outback (out back in the garage)
In a message dated 5/18/2009 8:59:57 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
lcfitt@sbcglobal.net writes:
John,
I agree with you entirely. That is why I resisted the trim tab for so
long.
The washer idea didn't occur to me as I was a rank novice in the building
and early flying stages. The trim tab just finally made sense and I did
it
and never regretted it. Since then, however, I have been thinking quite a
bit about the whole issue. I am thinking of building my own engine mount
with the offsets built into it, and I have been tinkering with a cockpit
adustable rudder trim as I doubt a washer or two or an offset will
completely negate any yaw tendency at all power settings.
I guess this is as good a time as any to present my rudder trim system. I
have a servo in the rudder that will warp the two bottom ribs giving a
different cambered surface on one side or the other. The ribs are tied
together so I will get an overcamber and undercamber on a desired side, or
a
symmetric surface on both sides controllable with a switch in the cockpit.
Of course it has yet to fly, but it is something I have been thinking
about
long before the opportunity to build again came up.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: <KITFOXZ@aol.com>
Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 3:51 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: rudder trim tab
> Hello Will,
>
> My Ship is not yet flying but I wanted to chime in on this thread. I
> have
> always believed that an airplane should be built to fly straight and
> level
> first. My model building days (and my aeronautical engineer father)
> taught me to pay particular attention to true alignment and close to
> perfect
> airfoils in all aspects of building. A banana shaped fuselage is a
curse
> one
> never will overcome. A warped wing will be more and more of a liability
> as the ship picks up speed in it's death spiral to mother earth.
>
> With a straight and true airframe accomplished first, the builder next
> tackles an engine mount. The engine's propeller will cause a torque
turn
> in
> the opposite direction of the prop rotation. A shim in the engine
mount
> is
> the best way to fix the problem in my book. I don't like the idea of
> having to change more than a little pitch trim when the engine quits.
An
> airplane should glide straight in my opinion. If the engine quits,
your
> hands
> are already full and I don't want to have to be standing on some rudder
> too,
> trying to overcome my trim tab.
>
> Actually, isn't a washer or two under the left engine mount to firewall
> points a heck of a lot easier than fabricating a trim tab? It's a lot
> less
> ugly!
>
> OK, I apologize, John, Lowell, Lynn, your trim tabs are beautiful but,
> isn't a simple washer for a little right thrust a solution to the
point?
>
> If the airplane fly's straight and true naturally and as you add power
> the
> right thrust becomes more and more effective to counteract the very
> torque
> turn you are trying to kill in the first place. Isn't this a solution
> near to God and the birds?
>
> Dang propellers anyway!
>
> John
> John P. Marzluf
> Columbus, Ohio
> Outback (out back in the garage)
>
>
> In a message dated 5/17/2009 3:03:29 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> lurcottstudios@yahoo.com writes:
>
> Greetings,
> I have been reading the list here for a while, and want to take the
> opportunity to say thanks to all of you. I have a Series V with a
> Lycoming O-235
> which is a great source of fun and unending lessons for me. There is one
> issue that I have, and that is that I must always input right rudder. I
> expect that at higher power settings, but at cruise? Anyway, I was
> wondering
> since the aircraft is already covered and flying is there some add-on
> type
> tab that I could affix to the rudder so that I don't have to constantly
> push
> on that right side. Cruise requires about 3-4 pounds or so of pressure.
> If
> someone has a photo or drawing, I would appreciate that too, as I am
very
> visual. Thanks for any input.
> Will Lurcott
> Series V
> Lyc O-235
> Flagler Beach, FL
>
>
> (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List)
> (http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
>
>
> **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See Yours in Just 2
> Easy
> Steps!
> =Mayfooter51809NO115)
>
**************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy
Steps!
Excfooter51609NO62)
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| Subject: | Re: Cutting 2/12in. hole in Plexiglass doors |
Tom,
I would post the pictures of my installation but I am at my cabin in the
NC mountains enjoying a reprieve from hot ,muggy,flat Florida. I am having
a blast driving my TR3 on these mountain roads. I even caught a group of
"rice rocket" motorcyclists that were on my butt and passed me on these
mountain roads (ala: Tail of the Dragon) Boy that was a thrill for an old fart!
Might have been because of that cute girl on the back of the last motorcycle
that waved at me(I backed off though) What an adrenaline rush to throw
this car around the curves and actually catch the group !
Anyway,I digress. I will return to my mane computer about mid June and
will send the pictures if you want and have not already done the deed.
Dick Maddux
Fox4-1200
Milton,Fl
**************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy
Steps!
Excfooter51609NO62)
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: rudder trim tab |
Yes sure,
I might have misunderstood you.
A cockpit adjustable trim tab is better then a fixed, specially when flying
(for longer times) at different speeds. and with high power airplanes with
greater speed range.
Jan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 12:26 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: rudder trim tab
>
> Hi Jan-
>
> I understand the compensation for wind effect by altering the course, but
> what got me to thinking about the cockpit-adjustable rudder trim tab, is
> that lately I've been playing around with changing speed of flight by
> reducing my rpm so that I see less fuel consumption (as revealed by my
> fuel flow gauge), and as a result I have noticed that the ball is
> slightly off-center at times. I thought that because I have a
> ground-adjustable rudder tab right now, which I understand is only good
> for a certain speed for any particular setting, that it would be good to
> have the cockpit-adjustable rudder tab. Is this not so?
>
> I almost always fly alone, and my fuel usage is pretty even from tank to
> tank...that is, side to side, with the 13 gallon tanks in each wing.
>
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 655.4 hrs
> Sensenich 62x46 Wood prop
> Electroair direct-fire ignition system
> Status: flying
>
>
> On May 19, 2009, at 2:02 AM, JC Propeller Design wrote:
>
>> <propellerdesign@tele2.se>
>>
>> Lynn,
>>
>> you do not compensate for crosswind with the trim tab, you move along
>> with the mass of air (steady air) at the same speed as it blows, if you
>> don't go directly in to the wind or with the wind, you have to
>> compensate for the drift over ground by alter your course.
>>
>> The rudder compensate for propeller effect and different aileron drag
>> from left side to right side when airplane is unbalanced in weight
>> distribution (fuel or people)
>>
>> The trim tab just take the load off the controls.
>>
>> Jan
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 2:35 AM
>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: rudder trim tab
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't one reason to use the rudder trim
>>> to counteract, for instance, a crosswind while flying, thus removing
>>> the necessity to hold a little rudder to keep the ball centered? At
>>> least that's what I thought I was doing in building a cockpit-
>>> controlled trim tab.
>>>
>>> Lynn Matteson
>>> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
>>> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 655.4 hrs
>>> Sensenich 62x46 Wood prop
>>> Electroair direct-fire ignition system
>>> Status: flying
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On May 18, 2009, at 6:51 PM, KITFOXZ@aol.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello Will,
>>>>
>>>> My Ship is not yet flying but I wanted to chime in on this thread. I
>>>> have always believed that an airplane should be built to fly straight
>>>> and level first. My model building days (and my aeronautical
>>>> engineer father) taught me to pay particular attention to true
>>>> alignment and close to perfect airfoils in all aspects of building.
>>>> A banana shaped fuselage is a curse one never will overcome. A
>>>> warped wing will be more and more of a liability as the ship picks up
>>>> speed in it's death spiral to mother earth.
>>>>
>>>> With a straight and true airframe accomplished first, the builder
>>>> next tackles an engine mount. The engine's propeller will cause a
>>>> torque turn in the opposite direction of the prop rotation. A shim
>>>> in the engine mount is the best way to fix the problem in my book. I
>>>> don't like the idea of having to change more than a little pitch trim
>>>> when the engine quits. An airplane should glide straight in my
>>>> opinion. If the engine quits, your hands are already full and I
>>>> don't want to have to be standing on some rudder too, trying to
>>>> overcome my trim tab.
>>>>
>>>> Actually, isn't a washer or two under the left engine mount to
>>>> firewall points a heck of a lot easier than fabricating a trim tab?
>>>> It's a lot less ugly!
>>>>
>>>> OK, I apologize, John, Lowell, Lynn, your trim tabs are beautiful
>>>> but, isn't a simple washer for a little right thrust a solution to
>>>> the point?
>>>>
>>>> If the airplane fly's straight and true naturally and as you add
>>>> power the right thrust becomes more and more effective to counteract
>>>> the very torque turn you are trying to kill in the first place.
>>>> Isn't this a solution near to God and the birds?
>>>>
>>>> Dang propellers anyway!
>>>>
>>>> John
>>>> John P. Marzluf
>>>> Columbus, Ohio
>>>> Outback (out back in the garage)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In a message dated 5/17/2009 3:03:29 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>>>> lurcottstudios@yahoo.com writes:
>>>> Greetings,
>>>> I have been reading the list here for a while, and want to take the
>>>> opportunity to say thanks to all of you. I have a Series V with a
>>>> Lycoming O-235 which is a great source of fun and unending lessons
>>>> for me. There is one issue that I have, and that is that I must
>>>> always input right rudder. I expect that at higher power settings,
>>>> but at cruise? Anyway, I was wondering since the aircraft is already
>>>> covered and flying is there some add-on type tab that I could affix
>>>> to the rudder so that I don't have to constantly push on that right
>>>> side. Cruise requires about 3-4 pounds or so of pressure. If someone
>>>> has a photo or drawing, I would appreciate that too, as I am very
>>>> visual. Thanks for any input.
>>>> Will Lurcott
>>>> Series V
>>>> Lyc O-235
>>>> Flagler Beach, FL
>>>>
>>>> ==================================== href="http:// www.matronics.com/
>>>> Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://
>>>> www.matron====================================
>>>> ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
>>>> ==================================== tp://www.matronics.com/
>>>> contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>> ===================================
>>>>
>>>> A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps!
>>>> www.matronics.com/contribution _-
>>>> ===========================================================
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
>>> signature database 4083 (20090518) __________
>>>
>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
> signature database 4086 (20090519) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Stuck Oil FilterStuck Oil Filter |
Lowell,
When I went thru Lockwoods Rotax school we did an oil change on one of
there CT's. The instructor told us we did not need to purge the engine as
part of the procedure BUT, take the phone off the hook and don't delay the
procedure. Remove the old oil filter and immediately install the new one.
Filling the new filter with some oil would also be beneficial (too much and it
runs all over the place)
If,of course, you remove the tank for cleaning then purge (or compromise
the oil lines). I don't use avgas so won't have to do that much. I also
have a quick drain which makes the job MUCH easier.
Dick Maddux
Milton,Fl
**************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy
Steps!
Excfooter51609NO62)
Message 6
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| Subject: | RE: Yahoo news article - The Great Ethanol Scam |
There are no redeeming qualities to burning ethanol as engine fuel. If the
politicians didn't keep throwing huge quantities of money, our money, at it
the whole idea would dry up and blow away. Problem is there would be a lot
of voting farmers who would be really peeved. I'm also willing to bet the
next fuel replacement program will also involve farmers so their peeve won't
last too long.
Noel
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of patrick reilly
Sent: 17 May 2009 12:30 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: RE: Yahoo news article - The Great Ethanol Scam
Mike, If ethanol polluted gasoline has virtually no redeeming
characteristics, and government mandating interference in the market economy
promotes only costly inefficienties, as government market interference
always does, there IS only one side! The U.S. feeds the world with corn and
to mandate burning food for energy when there are other sources is... well
you draw your own conclusion.
do not archive
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford, IL
> Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 09:10:10 +0200
> From: michel@online.no
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: RE: Yahoo news article - The Great Ethanol Scam
>
> > From: Rexinator [rexinator@gmail.com]
> > Not that I'm trying to create any debate (certainly here we all agree
ethanol is bad).
> > This just neatly explains the issue.
>
> Yes, I agree that ethanol is bad, Rex, and because of that, I need now to
pay twice as much for Avgas in my Kitfox (with tax deduction I can make,
Mogas is half Avgas in Norway).
>
> But how can anyone pay attention to an article that is aimed only at one
thing: Discredit ethanol? It would be like asking the Pope if he believes in
God.
>
> The idea is to use carbon dioxide neutral energy. Fossil fuel is something
that was supposed to release CO2 millions of years ago. That is the problem!
>
> Is ethanol the correct CO2 neutral fuel? I leave that question to those
who know better than me. But the article from Yahoo was one-sided and if I
am to read that, I may as well read ... er, hum ... Mao's little red book!
:-)
>
> Cheers,
> Michel Verheughe
> Norway
> Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
>
> Do not archive
>
> <pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face <a
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http:="http://www.matr
onics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/co======================
>
> </b></font></pre>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Runaway plane - serious mishap - throttle cable |
I am sure sorry to hear about your accident but thank god you were not hurt
!!! I had a similar one when I hand propped a homebuilt and it started
far above idle and the prop was trying to eat me. I got out of the way and
ended up grabbing the wingtip. (low wing) Can you picture a guy going round
and round at the airplane wash rack at Reid Hillview airport (years ago)
holding onto the wing tip ? I know it looked funny but it wasn't .Finally I
made a wild leap at the cockpit and was able to shut the engine down. After
cleaning my shorts,I vowed not to do that again.
I have the same type of bellcrank that you have but I do have secondary
bug stops. After hearing what happened ,I am sure going to recheck
everything. Thanks for sharing and I hope you can get it fixed soon!
Dick Maddux
Milton,Fl
**************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy
Steps!
Excfooter51609NO62)
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Runaway plane - serious mishap - throttle cable |
That's scary.- Something like that is always in the back of my mind with
the carbs set to their default of full-power.- What are your thoughts on
adding a counter balance spring to the-Vernier throttle control to reduce
the immediate full throttle?- I'm not saying to eliminate the full throt
tle default, but to reduce much of the tension.=0A=0APaul Morel=0AModel IV
Speedster 912=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: rcsfca
<r66rc-matronics@yahoo.com>=0ATo: kitfox-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Tuesda
y, May 19, 2009 1:05:31 AM=0ASubject: Kitfox-List: Runaway plane - serious
66rc-matronics@yahoo.com>=0A=0AMy Model IV - 1200 Rotax 912UL suffered majo
r wing and prop damage today after striking the corner and face of a concre
te hangar due to a throttle cable malfunction.=0A=0AAfter a normal start th
is morning at my own hangar, I taxied across the airport (CCR) to the local
avionics FBO for some radio and GPS work. Following a 15 minute inspection
of the proposed panel changes, the techs asked me to move the plane to an
adjacent hangar. I started the engine, which roared to life at full throttl
e (6000 rpm?) in a heartbeat, and the plane snapped forward into a circular
move even though I was firm on the brakes. (It swung in a circle because I
had some left rudder into it, which was lucky because I had other aircraft
parked in front of me on the ramp.) =0A=0AThinking that somehow the thrott
le had been pushed in (which it hadn't because I had double-checked it for
an idle setting before cranking the starter), I pulled back on the throttle
and it came out of its housing and into my hand. Three seconds later, the
plane hit the building, caving in the right wing and shearing the IVO compo
site prop. Turning off the magnetos was too late.=0A=0AThere was no fire an
d I was not injured, and there was plenty of help around to handle the leak
ing gasoline from the wing tank. But the wing, flaperon, and prop are finis
hed. The balance of the plane, interestingly enough, was undamaged. The ste
el frame will have to be checked for squareness but the wind spar and wood
absorbed the impact.=0A=0AThe problem with the throttle is as follows:=0A
=0AMy plane, built in 1994, has the bellcrank-style throttle control, which
divides the forward and reverse motion of the throttle handle between the
two carbs. The throttle handle is attached to the bellcrank by a stiff stee
l 1/16" rod that runs from the backend of the throttle handle to a hole in
the bellcrank mechanism where it is secured by a set screw retainer.=0A=0AW
hat happened in my case was that - unknown to me - the rod was completely s
traight and ran through the retainer hole with neither a secondary safety r
etainer on the other side of the hole nor a 90+ degree bend in the rod on t
he other side of the hole to keep the rod from being pulled out in the even
t the primary retainer set screw let loose.=0A=0ASo this morning the (singl
e) set screw let go, the throttles on the carbs went to their default full-
power position (WOT), and when I pulled back on the handle, the steel rod s
lid out of its bellcrank retainer and the whole throttle handle ended up in
my hand. =0A=0AAn important suggestion to any of the owners out there who
have this type of throttle control: =0A=0A- Immediately check your rod-to-b
ellcrank retention screw for tightness.=0A=0A- Get a secondary retainer on
the rod.=0A=0A- Put a bend into the rod after the secondary retainer to all
ow the rod to hook the bellcrank in case of retainer failure.=0A=0A- Purcha
se the Kitfox Aircraft replacement throttle cable ($219) that does not use
the bellcrank at all - it is a twin-cable style control of a completely dif
ferent design.=0A=0AHope this has been complete enough - maybe there's been
something AD-related already published or a prior thread. It has been a lo
ng hard day but I don't want any members of the community to not know about
the incident in case their throttle equipment is the same as mine.=0A=0A
=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/view
- - - - - - - - - - - - -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
====
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Cutting 2/12in. hole in Plexiglass doors |
> I will return to my mane computer about mid June and will send the pictures if
you want and have not already done the deed.
Dick, a thousand words would be worth as much as the pictures. Just kidding, how
about a few words? I am thinking about putting the vents in the front half
of the lower half of the doors. In any case I don't want to put them in the
top half of the doors. I like the visibility too much and my wife likes to take
pictures with the doors shut.
Attached is a picture of our mountains she took on our kitfox flight last saturday.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=244627#244627
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/047_cathedralrocksandlkcleelum_16may2009_202.jpg
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Cutting 2/12in. hole in Plexiglass doors |
> I will return to my mane computer about mid June and will send the pictures if
you want and have not already done the deed.
Dick, a thousand words would be worth as much as the pictures. Just kidding, how
about a few words? I am thinking about putting the vents in the front half
of the lower half of the doors. In any case I don't want to put them in the
top half of the doors. I like the visibility too much and my wife likes to take
pictures with the doors shut.
Attached is a picture of our mountains she took on our kitfox flight last saturday.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=244628#244628
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/047_cathedralrocksandlkcleelum_16may2009_202.jpg
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: rudder trim tab |
On Mon, May 18, 2009 11:02 pm, JC Propeller Design wrote:
> you do not compensate for crosswind with the trim tab, you move along with
> the mass of air (steady air) at the same speed as it blows, if you don't go
> directly in to the wind or with the wind, you have to compensate for the
> drift over ground by alter your course.
I agree but offer a slight correction so as to be consistent with textbooks and
exams
and the like. That is "alter your course" should be 'altering your heading'. You
could
have a heading that pointed you at the destination but your course would be a modified
catenary. You could choose a heading such that your course would be a straight
line.
So you actually alter your heading to affect the course. Rather picky, I know.
Just
that this is a common test question.
Clip Clip clip
> The trim tab just take the load off the controls.
That is it in a nutshell. Trim is for unloading the control forces.
--
Paul A. Franz
Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT
Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP
Bellevue WA
425.241.1618 Cell
"An unlimited power to tax involves, necessarily, a power to
destroy; because there is a limit beyond which no institution and
no property can bear taxation."
-- John Marshall, McCullough v. Maryland, 1819
Message 12
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| Subject: | RE: Yahoo news article - The Great Ethanol Scam |
Noel - you give far too much credit to farmers! I live in farm country and
am all too aware of farmers worried about gambling what to put their acres
up in given that by the time the corn is ready for market the politicians
and the speculators could have trashed their life savings. It's a nasty
situation but the farmers are just pawns in the game, they stand to make
good money or lose their overalls over decisions they have absolutely no
control over. Maybe farmers should join an organisation with the political
clout of the NRA, then you could blame farmers. But then they might shoot
back! ;-)
"Voting farmers" - in farm country you have 1 or 2 votes per 100 acres of
farmland, in a suburb how many votes per 100 acres - none of them farmers! I
doubt the vote matters. Personally I think ethanol is just viewed as "doing
something" about our dependence on foreign oil, without really researching
whether that something is a good solution at all.
But, bringing it back to Kitfoxes, I am *still* rebuilding my entire fuel
system to run on the inevitable corn-gas that I have to use, so I do tend to
rant on the topic, sorry. Fire up your blowtorch and flame away Dave, just
keep it away from your ethanol reserves... ;-)
Bob Brennan - N717GB
ELSA Repairman, inspection rated
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox taildragger
Rotax 582 with 3 blade GSC prop
Wrightsville Pa
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Noel
Sent: 19 May 2009 8:21 am
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: RE: Yahoo news article - The Great Ethanol Scam
There are no redeeming qualities to burning ethanol as engine fuel. If the
politicians didn't keep throwing huge quantities of money, our money, at it
the whole idea would dry up and blow away. Problem is there would be a lot
of voting farmers who would be really peeved. I'm also willing to bet the
next fuel replacement program will also involve farmers so their peeve won't
last too long.
Noel
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of patrick reilly
Sent: 17 May 2009 12:30 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: RE: Yahoo news article - The Great Ethanol Scam
Mike, If ethanol polluted gasoline has virtually no redeeming
characteristics, and government mandating interference in the market economy
promotes only costly inefficienties, as government market interference
always does, there IS only one side! The U.S. feeds the world with corn and
to mandate burning food for energy when there are other sources is... well
you draw your own conclusion.
do not archive
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford, IL
> Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 09:10:10 +0200
> From: michel@online.no
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: RE: Yahoo news article - The Great Ethanol Scam
>
> > From: Rexinator [rexinator@gmail.com]
> > Not that I'm trying to create any debate (certainly here we all agree
ethanol is bad).
> > This just neatly explains the issue.
>
> Yes, I agree that ethanol is bad, Rex, and because of that, I need now to
pay twice as much for Avgas in my Kitfox (with tax deduction I can make,
Mogas is half Avgas in Norway).
>
> But how can anyone pay attention to an article that is aimed only at one
thing: Discredit ethanol? It would be like asking the Pope if he believes in
God.
>
> The idea is to use carbon dioxide neutral energy. Fossil fuel is something
that was supposed to release CO2 millions of years ago. That is the problem!
>
> Is ethanol the correct CO2 neutral fuel? I leave that question to those
who know better than me. But the article from Yahoo was one-sided and if I
am to read that, I may as well read ... er, hum ... Mao's little red book!
:-)
>
> Cheers,
> Michel Verheughe
> Norway
> Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
>
> Do not archive
>
> <pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face <a
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http:="http://www.matr
onics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/co======================
>
> </b></font></pre>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox - how high have you gone ? |
If I drew the graph from my flight test rate of climb data correctly, the service
ceiling with my little engine is just a hair over 12,000. Some day I'll have
a big motor like the rest of you guys. do not archive
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=244631#244631
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: rudder trim tab |
Hello All,
Thanks to everyone and to Lowell and- Lynn for the photos and drawings. A
s a side note, my plane glides fine. However, gliding is not the primary M.
O. for me. I have been told that if there is a roll tendency, versus a yaw,
then the twist of the wings is a factor. Not the issue for me either. Many
other aircraft have rudder trim--it just makes sense. I fly for hours at a
time, and with different power settings. P-factor, torque, engine offset e
tc.--- it all boils down to riding that right rudder. If I don't do somethi
ng soon, my right leg will look like Popeye's arm, and the left will atroph
y.
The nicest installation I have seen so far is posted on the teamkitfox web
site by Bruce,- who goes by Airlina. It utilizes a servo connected to a t
ab. Additionally, he has a two speed switch for the elevator trim. Really,
really nice work. My favorite idea is the one posted by Lowell. Lowell, cha
nging the camber is nothing short of a spectacular idea!!! Indeed, a very W
right idea! I would like to see a few more photos of your project as the id
ea of no extruding members for trim is very appealing. Great work. Thanks a
gain to all of you for your input!
Will
Series V
Lyc.O-235
Flagler Beach, FL
=0A=0A=0A
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: rudder trim tab |
[quote="lurcottstudios(at)yahoo.c"]Greetings,
I have been reading the list here for a while, and want to take the opportunity
to say thanks to all of you. I have a Series V with a Lycoming O-235 which is
a great source of fun and unending lessons for me. There is one issue that I
have, and that is that I must always input right rudder. I expect that at higher
power settings, but at cruise? Anyway, I was wondering since the aircraft
is already covered and flying is there some add-on type tab that I could affix
to the rudder so that I don't have to constantly push on that right side. Cruise
requires about 3-4 pounds or so of pressure. If someone has a photo or drawing,
I would appreciate that too, as I am very visual. Thanks for any input.
Will Lurcott
Series V
Lyc O-235
Flagler Beach, FL
Will, have you thought about an extra adjustable spring or bungee attached to the
right rudder pedal? Maybe a stronger spring on the right and weaker on the
left? Just thinking out loud.
My prop rotation is left hand. I need to hold just very slight left rudder in
cruise to center the ball.
I have thought about a small bungee attached to the left pedal, run it forward
to a pully on the fire wall, tie a piece of parachute cord with knots every inch
or so on the end and run that back to where I can pull on it and catch the
right knot in a notch in a piece of aluminum attached on the front door frame
somewhere. Sorry, wordy not visual.
> [b]
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=244641#244641
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Runaway plane - serious mishap - throttle cable |
I too am sorry you had that experience. I trained at CCR years ago with Lou
Ellis. I think this makes your experience a bit more personal to me. I am
at Cameron Park. I don't know how I might help in the repairs, but if you
think of something let me know.
Lowell Fitt
Cameron Park, CA
Model IV-1200 R-912 UL
prepping the fuselage for covering.
----- Original Message -----
From: "rcsfca" <r66rc-matronics@yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 10:05 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Runaway plane - serious mishap - throttle cable
>
> My Model IV - 1200 Rotax 912UL suffered major wing and prop damage today
> after striking the corner and face of a concrete hangar due to a throttle
> cable malfunction.
>
> After a normal start this morning at my own hangar, I taxied across the
> airport (CCR) to the local avionics FBO for some radio and GPS work.
> Following a 15 minute inspection of the proposed panel changes, the techs
> asked me to move the plane to an adjacent hangar. I started the engine,
> which roared to life at full throttle (6000 rpm?) in a heartbeat, and the
> plane snapped forward into a circular move even though I was firm on the
> brakes. (It swung in a circle because I had some left rudder into it,
> which was lucky because I had other aircraft parked in front of me on the
> ramp.)
>
> Thinking that somehow the throttle had been pushed in (which it hadn't
> because I had double-checked it for an idle setting before cranking the
> starter), I pulled back on the throttle and it came out of its housing and
> into my hand. Three seconds later, the plane hit the building, caving in
> the right wing and shearing the IVO composite prop. Turning off the
> magnetos was too late.
>
> There was no fire and I was not injured, and there was plenty of help
> around to handle the leaking gasoline from the wing tank. But the wing,
> flaperon, and prop are finished. The balance of the plane, interestingly
> enough, was undamaged. The steel frame will have to be checked for
> squareness but the wind spar and wood absorbed the impact.
>
> The problem with the throttle is as follows:
>
> My plane, built in 1994, has the bellcrank-style throttle control, which
> divides the forward and reverse motion of the throttle handle between the
> two carbs. The throttle handle is attached to the bellcrank by a stiff
> steel 1/16" rod that runs from the backend of the throttle handle to a
> hole in the bellcrank mechanism where it is secured by a set screw
> retainer.
>
> What happened in my case was that - unknown to me - the rod was completely
> straight and ran through the retainer hole with neither a secondary safety
> retainer on the other side of the hole nor a 90+ degree bend in the rod on
> the other side of the hole to keep the rod from being pulled out in the
> event the primary retainer set screw let loose.
>
> So this morning the (single) set screw let go, the throttles on the carbs
> went to their default full-power position (WOT), and when I pulled back on
> the handle, the steel rod slid out of its bellcrank retainer and the whole
> throttle handle ended up in my hand.
>
> An important suggestion to any of the owners out there who have this type
> of throttle control:
>
> - Immediately check your rod-to-bellcrank retention screw for tightness.
>
> - Get a secondary retainer on the rod.
>
> - Put a bend into the rod after the secondary retainer to allow the rod to
> hook the bellcrank in case of retainer failure.
>
> - Purchase the Kitfox Aircraft replacement throttle cable ($219) that does
> not use the bellcrank at all - it is a twin-cable style control of a
> completely different design.
>
> Hope this has been complete enough - maybe there's been something
> AD-related already published or a prior thread. It has been a long hard
> day but I don't want any members of the community to not know about the
> incident in case their throttle equipment is the same as mine.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=244594#244594
>
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Runaway plane - serious mishap - throttle cable |
Paul, I did exactly that. I ran a counteracting spring from the head of
the bugnut in the center arm of the bellcrank to the cross tube behind the
lower instrument panel. I had almost perfect ballance with the throttle. I
did it mostly to prevent the throttle jump if I inadvertently brushed the
button. As Dick suggests, I also had a second bugnut on the throttle rod.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "teresa, paul morel" <pmorel@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 6:17 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Runaway plane - serious mishap - throttle cable
That's scary. Something like that is always in the back of my mind with the
carbs set to their default of full-power. What are your thoughts on adding a
counter balance spring to the Vernier throttle control to reduce the
immediate full throttle? I'm not saying to eliminate the full throttle
default, but to reduce much of the tension.
Paul Morel
Model IV Speedster 912
________________________________
From: rcsfca <r66rc-matronics@yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 1:05:31 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Runaway plane - serious mishap - throttle cable
My Model IV - 1200 Rotax 912UL suffered major wing and prop damage today
after striking the corner and face of a concrete hangar due to a throttle
cable malfunction.
After a normal start this morning at my own hangar, I taxied across the
airport (CCR) to the local avionics FBO for some radio and GPS work.
Following a 15 minute inspection of the proposed panel changes, the techs
asked me to move the plane to an adjacent hangar. I started the engine,
which roared to life at full throttle (6000 rpm?) in a heartbeat, and the
plane snapped forward into a circular move even though I was firm on the
brakes. (It swung in a circle because I had some left rudder into it, which
was lucky because I had other aircraft parked in front of me on the ramp.)
Thinking that somehow the throttle had been pushed in (which it hadn't
because I had double-checked it for an idle setting before cranking the
starter), I pulled back on the throttle and it came out of its housing and
into my hand. Three seconds later, the plane hit the building, caving in the
right wing and shearing the IVO composite prop. Turning off the magnetos was
too late.
There was no fire and I was not injured, and there was plenty of help around
to handle the leaking gasoline from the wing tank. But the wing, flaperon,
and prop are finished. The balance of the plane, interestingly enough, was
undamaged. The steel frame will have to be checked for squareness but the
wind spar and wood absorbed the impact.
The problem with the throttle is as follows:
My plane, built in 1994, has the bellcrank-style throttle control, which
divides the forward and reverse motion of the throttle handle between the
two carbs. The throttle handle is attached to the bellcrank by a stiff steel
1/16" rod that runs from the backend of the throttle handle to a hole in the
bellcrank mechanism where it is secured by a set screw retainer.
What happened in my case was that - unknown to me - the rod was completely
straight and ran through the retainer hole with neither a secondary safety
retainer on the other side of the hole nor a 90+ degree bend in the rod on
the other side of the hole to keep the rod from being pulled out in the
event the primary retainer set screw let loose.
So this morning the (single) set screw let go, the throttles on the carbs
went to their default full-power position (WOT), and when I pulled back on
the handle, the steel rod slid out of its bellcrank retainer and the whole
throttle handle ended up in my hand.
An important suggestion to any of the owners out there who have this type of
throttle control:
- Immediately check your rod-to-bellcrank retention screw for tightness.
- Get a secondary retainer on the rod.
- Put a bend into the rod after the secondary retainer to allow the rod to
hook the bellcrank in case of retainer failure.
- Purchase the Kitfox Aircraft replacement throttle cable ($219) that does
not use the bellcrank at all - it is a twin-cable style control of a
completely different design.
Hope this has been complete enough - maybe there's been something AD-related
already published or a prior thread. It has been a long hard day but I don't
want any members of the community to not know about the incident in case
their throttle equipment is the same as mine.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/view -Matt Dralle, List Admin.=====
Message 18
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|
| Subject: | Re: rudder trim tab |
I am presently working on a controllable trim tab just like Bruce
Lina's. In fact, I just received the same controller that Bruce used
in his design. Now I'm working on a way to mount the servo...a model
airplane, giant scale servo...into the rudder, and make it secure.
Then I'll worry about running the wire through the fuselage. I've
already got the controller mounting bracket ready to attach to the
panel.....damn! I couldn't find room on the panel itself that was
convenient for the mounting and reaching, so I had to attach it below
and next to the choke, throttle and carb heat bracket. It is very
reachable there, and better than on the console, I believe. This is
the first time that I've had to add something to the plane that
didn't fit into the panel. I'd better run out of ideas pretty soon,
because I've already run out of room. : )
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 655.4 hrs
Sensenich 62x46 Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Status: flying
On May 19, 2009, at 10:31 AM, william lurcott wrote:
> Hello All,
> Thanks to everyone and to Lowell and Lynn for the photos and
> drawings. As a side note, my plane glides fine. However, gliding is
> not the primary M.O. for me. I have been told that if there is a
> roll tendency, versus a yaw, then the twist of the wings is a
> factor. Not the issue for me either. Many other aircraft have
> rudder trim--it just makes sense. I fly for hours at a time, and
> with different power settings. P-factor, torque, engine offset
> etc.--- it all boils down to riding that right rudder. If I don't
> do something soon, my right leg will look like Popeye's arm, and
> the left will atrophy.
> The nicest installation I have seen so far is posted on the
> teamkitfox web site by Bruce, who goes by Airlina. It utilizes a
> servo connected to a tab. Additionally, he has a two speed switch
> for the elevator trim. Really, really nice work. My favorite idea
> is the one posted by Lowell. Lowell, changing the camber is nothing
> short of a spectacular idea!!! Indeed, a very Wright idea! I would
> like to see a few more photos of your project as the idea of no
> extruding members for trim is very appealing. Great work. Thanks
> again to all of you for your input!
> Will
> Series V
> Lyc.O-235
> Flagler Beach, FL
>
> www.matronics.com/contribution _-
> ===========================================================
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: rudder trim tab |
Yes you are correct, and I'm glad you make my inglish better. not many on
this list can read Swedish (our little Norway (LN-) friends can) so I
struggle with my inglish!
We can also call the course, track!
as an old skipper I use the words I learned long ago. and in Swedish. like-
kg kk mk where k=kurs-course
I still gets where I want to go.
Jan
Ps, when doing air-towing of gliders sometimes we put both left and right
foot, (shoos) on the starboard (right) pedal, specially on long tows. an
adjustable tab would have been nice.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Franz - Merlin GT" <paul@eucleides.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 3:30 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: rudder trim tab
> <paul@eucleides.com>
>
> On Mon, May 18, 2009 11:02 pm, JC Propeller Design wrote:
>
>> you do not compensate for crosswind with the trim tab, you move along
>> with
>> the mass of air (steady air) at the same speed as it blows, if you don't
>> go
>> directly in to the wind or with the wind, you have to compensate for the
>> drift over ground by alter your course.
>
> I agree but offer a slight correction so as to be consistent with
> textbooks and exams
> and the like. That is "alter your course" should be 'altering your
> heading'. You could
> have a heading that pointed you at the destination but your course would
> be a modified
> catenary. You could choose a heading such that your course would be a
> straight line.
> So you actually alter your heading to affect the course. Rather picky, I
> know. Just
> that this is a common test question.
>
> Clip Clip clip
>
>> The trim tab just take the load off the controls.
>
> That is it in a nutshell. Trim is for unloading the control forces.
> --
> Paul A. Franz
> Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT
> Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP
> Bellevue WA
> 425.241.1618 Cell
>
> "An unlimited power to tax involves, necessarily, a power to
> destroy; because there is a limit beyond which no institution and
> no property can bear taxation."
>
> -- John Marshall, McCullough v. Maryland, 1819
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
> signature database 4087 (20090519) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox - how high have you gone ? |
Almost 14,000 ft with my Kitfox Classic IV Rotax 912-S in a very turbulent
day. I didn=B4t try to get higher as I was in a cross country.
-
Franicisco Icaza.
Mexico City
--- El mar 19-may-09, Tom Jones <nahsikhs@elltel.net> escribi=F3:
De:: Tom Jones <nahsikhs@elltel.net>
Asunto: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox - how high have you gone ?
A: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Fecha: martes 19 de mayo de 2009, 8:38
If I drew the graph from my flight test rate of climb data correctly, the s
ervice ceiling with my little engine is just a hair over 12,000.- Some da
y I'll have a big motor like the rest of you guys. do not archive
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=244631#244631
le, List Admin.
=0A=0A=0A =A1Obt=E9n la mejor experiencia en la web! Descarga gratis e
l nuevo Internet Explorer 8. http://downloads.yahoo.com/ieak8/?l=mx
Message 21
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Trim is controlled from cockpit. Works well. It is just another way of
doing the trim tab.
Kitfox N55KF
Message 22
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| Subject: | RE: rudder trim tab |
> From: JC Propeller Design [propellerdesign@tele2.se]
> (our little Norway (LN-) friends can)
... er, what? Hum, Lima November waking up! :-)
I also reacted to tue use of the rudder trim for crosswind but ... here it is:
The course is the direction in which the aircraft is heading! This is not my definition
but the one from the Royal Air Force book my father had under World War
II. And, after all, the Brits invented the English language!
So, heading and course are the same thing. The difference is that the Americans
call it "heading" and the Brits call it " course" ... of course! (Yes, pun intended!)
The actual path the aircraft is tracing in relation to the ground is called the
track.
Another difference between American and British English is that the Americans call
the magnetic declination for magnetic variation. In fact, the magnetic variation
is, as it name says, the yearly variation of the magnetic declination and
the magnetic deviation is what deviates it from nearby magnetic structure.
Cheers,
Michel Verheughe
Norway
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
Do not archive
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: RE: rudder trim tab |
Permit a rookie to take the chance on embarrassing himself, but I
think heading is the direction that the plane is headed (duh!), and
course is the intended flight path. With no wind, heading and course
are the same direction. With a wind from the left side, heading will
be to the left of the intended destination, and vice versa if the
wind is from the right of the plane. I was flying this morning
pointing at 220 degrees (heading), and my track was 179-181
degrees...pretty good breeze up there!
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 656.1 hrs
Sensenich 62x46 Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Status: flying
On May 19, 2009, at 1:32 PM, Michel Verheughe wrote:
>> From: JC Propeller Design [propellerdesign@tele2.se]
>> (our little Norway (LN-) friends can)
>
> ... er, what? Hum, Lima November waking up! :-)
> I also reacted to tue use of the rudder trim for crosswind but ...
> here it is:
>
> The course is the direction in which the aircraft is heading! This
> is not my definition but the one from the Royal Air Force book my
> father had under World War II. And, after all, the Brits invented
> the English language!
>
> So, heading and course are the same thing. The difference is that
> the Americans call it "heading" and the Brits call it " course" ...
> of course! (Yes, pun intended!)
>
> The actual path the aircraft is tracing in relation to the ground
> is called the track.
>
> Another difference between American and British English is that the
> Americans call the magnetic declination for magnetic variation. In
> fact, the magnetic variation is, as it name says, the yearly
> variation of the magnetic declination and the magnetic deviation is
> what deviates it from nearby magnetic structure.
>
> Cheers,
> Michel Verheughe
> Norway
> Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
>
> Do not archive
>
> <pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
>
> List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List</a>
> forums.matronics.com</a>
> www.matronics.com/contribution</a>
>
> </b></font></pre>
Message 24
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Ah, a man after my own heart! Good to see you putting those left over
model parts to good use, Ron. I'm doing the same thing with some
Sullivan horns and clevises, but using push-pull rigid pushrods to
your pull-pull system....I DO love pull-pulls, though!
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 656.1 hrs
Sensenich 62x46 Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Status: flying
On May 19, 2009, at 12:44 PM, Ron Liebmann wrote:
> Trim is controlled from cockpit. Works well. It is just another
> way of doing the trim tab.
>
> Kitfox N55KF
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox - how high have you gone ? |
At 07:11 PM 5/18/2009, you wrote:
>Took mine to 15k today and it was still going. Maybe I take a
>bottle next time and see higher . non turbo 582 whoa !!
Wow, you're good. I can only get mine to 12.5k. Of course, with a
little mountain wave. . .
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 300 hrs. and counting
Do not archive
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: RE: rudder trim tab |
Lynn,
you are correct, in US you are correct, in other countrys it is correct to
say course, true course and stearing course.
in marine navigation heading is seldome used.
http://www.sailingissues.com/navcourse1.html
Glossary
a.. Maps with isogonic lines:
World - overview 2000
World - detailed 2000
World - detailed 2005
World - animated in timeVariation: The angle between the magnetic north
pole and the geographic north pole. Also called the magnetic declination.
b.. Secular variation: The change of magnetic declination in time with
respect to both strength and direction of its magnetic field.
c.. West (-) , East (+): Western variations or deviations are designated
with a negative sign by convention due to the compass card's clockwise
direction.
d.. Deviation: The error in compass heading caused by electric magnetic
currents and or metal objects.
e.. Deviation table: A table containing deviations in degrees versus the
ship's heading (compass course) in degrees. Usually plotted in a graph.
f.. True course: Course plotted in the chart i.e. course over the ground
or "course made good". The course corrected for compass errors.
g.. Compass course: The course (ship's heading) without the correction for
compass errors.
h.. cc + var + dev = tc: This equation shows the connection between the
compass course, its errors and the true course. It can also be read as: tc -
var = cc + dev.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 9:05 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: RE: rudder trim tab
>
> Permit a rookie to take the chance on embarrassing himself, but I think
> heading is the direction that the plane is headed (duh!), and course is
> the intended flight path. With no wind, heading and course are the same
> direction. With a wind from the left side, heading will be to the left
> of the intended destination, and vice versa if the wind is from the right
> of the plane. I was flying this morning pointing at 220 degrees
> (heading), and my track was 179-181 degrees...pretty good breeze up
> there!
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 656.1 hrs
> Sensenich 62x46 Wood prop
> Electroair direct-fire ignition system
> Status: flying
>
>
> On May 19, 2009, at 1:32 PM, Michel Verheughe wrote:
>
>>> From: JC Propeller Design [propellerdesign@tele2.se]
>>> (our little Norway (LN-) friends can)
>>
>> ... er, what? Hum, Lima November waking up! :-)
>> I also reacted to tue use of the rudder trim for crosswind but ... here
>> it is:
>>
>> The course is the direction in which the aircraft is heading! This is
>> not my definition but the one from the Royal Air Force book my father
>> had under World War II. And, after all, the Brits invented the English
>> language!
>>
>> So, heading and course are the same thing. The difference is that the
>> Americans call it "heading" and the Brits call it " course" ... of
>> course! (Yes, pun intended!)
>>
>> The actual path the aircraft is tracing in relation to the ground is
>> called the track.
>>
>> Another difference between American and British English is that the
>> Americans call the magnetic declination for magnetic variation. In fact,
>> the magnetic variation is, as it name says, the yearly variation of the
>> magnetic declination and the magnetic deviation is what deviates it from
>> nearby magnetic structure.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Michel Verheughe
>> Norway
>> Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
>>
>> Do not archive
>>
>> <pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
>>
>> List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List</a>
>> forums.matronics.com</a>
>> www.matronics.com/contribution</a>
>>
>> </b></font></pre>
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
> signature database 4088 (20090519) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | RE: rudder trim tab |
> From: Lynn Matteson [lynnmatt@jps.net]
> I think heading is the direction that the plane is headed (duh!), and
> course is the intended flight path.
I believe it is, Lynn, on your side of the big pond.
But the Royal Air Force Air Navigation published by the Air Ministry May 1944 says
in Chapter One, page 15, paragraph 25, and I quote:
- The direction in which an aircraft is heading is called its Course.
Then, same page, paragraph 26:
- The direction of the path of an aircraft over the Earth is called its track.
Mind you, this is something I have been discussing with aviators and mariners for
years and they mostly agree with you. But the R.A.F. doesn't. Terribly sorry,
old chap! :-)
Cheers,
Michel Verheughe
Norway
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
Do not archive
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Yahoo news article - The Great Ethanol Scam |
Bob
Yes this off subject but I think the farmers are not as innocent as you
have stated. I was told that a portion of every bushel sold goes to a
lobbying group. Kind of like a union as they have no choice but as it is
taken out at time of sale.
If someone would like to straighten me out please contact me off the
list. I would feel better if I was wrong.
Dwight Purdy
Model II
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Brennan
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 9:36 AM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: RE: Yahoo news article - The Great Ethanol
Scam
Noel - you give far too much credit to farmers! I live in farm country
and am all too aware of farmers worried about gambling what to put their
acres up in given that by the time the corn is ready for market the
politicians and the speculators could have trashed their life savings.
It's a nasty situation but the farmers are just pawns in the game, they
stand to make good money or lose their overalls over decisions they have
absolutely no control over. Maybe farmers should join an organisation
with the political clout of the NRA, then you could blame farmers. But
then they might shoot back! ;-)
"Voting farmers" - in farm country you have 1 or 2 votes per 100 acres
of farmland, in a suburb how many votes per 100 acres - none of them
farmers! I doubt the vote matters. Personally I think ethanol is just
viewed as "doing something" about our dependence on foreign oil, without
really researching whether that something is a good solution at all.
But, bringing it back to Kitfoxes, I am *still* rebuilding my entire
fuel system to run on the inevitable corn-gas that I have to use, so I
do tend to rant on the topic, sorry. Fire up your blowtorch and flame
away Dave, just keep it away from your ethanol reserves... ;-)
Bob Brennan - N717GB
ELSA Repairman, inspection rated
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox taildragger
Rotax 582 with 3 blade GSC prop
Wrightsville Pa
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Noel
Sent: 19 May 2009 8:21 am
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: RE: Yahoo news article - The Great Ethanol
Scam
There are no redeeming qualities to burning ethanol as engine fuel.
If the politicians didn't keep throwing huge quantities of money, our
money, at it the whole idea would dry up and blow away. Problem is
there would be a lot of voting farmers who would be really peeved. I'm
also willing to bet the next fuel replacement program will also involve
farmers so their peeve won't last too long.
Noel
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of patrick
reilly
Sent: 17 May 2009 12:30 PM
To: kitfox matronics
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: RE: Yahoo news article - The Great Ethanol
Scam
Mike, If ethanol polluted gasoline has virtually no redeeming
characteristics, and government mandating interference in the market
economy promotes only costly inefficienties, as government market
interference always does, there IS only one side! The U.S. feeds the
world with corn and to mandate burning food for energy when there are
other sources is... well you draw your own conclusion.
do not archive
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford, IL
> Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 09:10:10 +0200
> From: michel@online.no
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: RE: Yahoo news article - The Great Ethanol
Scam
>
> > From: Rexinator [rexinator@gmail.com]
> > Not that I'm trying to create any debate (certainly here we all
agree ethanol is bad).
> > This just neatly explains the issue.
>
> Yes, I agree that ethanol is bad, Rex, and because of that, I need
now to pay twice as much for Avgas in my Kitfox (with tax deduction I
can make, Mogas is half Avgas in Norway).
>
> But how can anyone pay attention to an article that is aimed only at
one thing: Discredit ethanol? It would be like asking the Pope if he
believes in God.
>
> The idea is to use carbon dioxide neutral energy. Fossil fuel is
something that was supposed to release CO2 millions of years ago. That
is the problem!
>
> Is ethanol the correct CO2 neutral fuel? I leave that question to
those who know better than me. But the article from Yahoo was one-sided
and if I am to read that, I may as well read ... er, hum ... Mao's
little red book! :-)
>
> Cheers,
> Michel Verheughe
> Norway
> Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
>
> Do not archive
>
> <pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face <a
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http:="http://w
ww.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/co=====
=================
>
> </b></font></pre>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 29
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| Subject: | RE: Yahoo news article - The Great Ethanol Scam |
Still off topic - not sure where you got that info Dwight but the biggest
farmer's organisation I know of is the National Farmer's Union
<http://nfu.org/> http://nfu.org/ which is strictly voluntary membership and
does lobby on behalf of small farms. But I believe it is even less
influential than AOPA or the EAA in getting changes in legislation, and
certainly does not collect any levies on farm produce.
Slightly back on topic - Paul Poberezny, founder of the EAA, recently wrote
an article about ethanol and the EAA's inability to do anything about it. At
the end he asked for ideas and support, to which I replied, as I do too
often<g>, about my experiences. This is the form reply I got:
"I appreciate your response and comments to the Experimenter article I wrote
regarding ethanol in fuel and how this might be overcome through technology.
Some felt I was in favor of ethanol in fuel and was promoting its use -
which I am not. I well remember the very negative letters I received years
back relative to my efforts of the use of automotive fuel for aircraft use
(which was successfully used and now, ethanol has been added). Back in 1939,
Popular Aviation Magazine published a long article about ethanol being used
in aviation fuel.
"I have received various e-mails from individuals who are currently using
ethanol in fuel. Some felt EAA should be doing more at the federal or state
level to ensure a safe or workable fuel. However, I am not in a position to
make that decision, but I continue to serve as an EAA volunteer. (I am not
an "employee" of EAA, but have served as one of its 36 EAA directors.)
"I hope in a small way that by asking the question will eventually inspire a
solution."
So even the EAA has little infuence in the matter.
bob
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dwight Purdy
Sent: 19 May 2009 6:19 pm
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: RE: Yahoo news article - The Great Ethanol Scam
Bob
Yes this off subject but I think the farmers are not as innocent as you
have stated. I was told that a portion of every bushel sold goes to a
lobbying group. Kind of like a union as they have no choice but as it is
taken out at time of sale.
If someone would like to straighten me out please contact me off the list.
I would feel better if I was wrong.
Dwight Purdy
Model II
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Brennan <mailto:matronics@bob.brennan.name>
Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 9:36 AM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: RE: Yahoo news article - The Great Ethanol Scam
Noel - you give far too much credit to farmers! I live in farm country and
am all too aware of farmers worried about gambling what to put their acres
up in given that by the time the corn is ready for market the politicians
and the speculators could have trashed their life savings. It's a nasty
situation but the farmers are just pawns in the game, they stand to make
good money or lose their overalls over decisions they have absolutely no
control over. Maybe farmers should join an organisation with the political
clout of the NRA, then you could blame farmers. But then they might shoot
back! ;-)
"Voting farmers" - in farm country you have 1 or 2 votes per 100 acres of
farmland, in a suburb how many votes per 100 acres - none of them farmers! I
doubt the vote matters. Personally I think ethanol is just viewed as "doing
something" about our dependence on foreign oil, without really researching
whether that something is a good solution at all.
But, bringing it back to Kitfoxes, I am *still* rebuilding my entire fuel
system to run on the inevitable corn-gas that I have to use, so I do tend to
rant on the topic, sorry. Fire up your blowtorch and flame away Dave, just
keep it away from your ethanol reserves... ;-)
Bob Brennan - N717GB
ELSA Repairman, inspection rated
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox taildragger
Rotax 582 with 3 blade GSC prop
Wrightsville Pa
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Noel
Sent: 19 May 2009 8:21 am
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: RE: Yahoo news article - The Great Ethanol Scam
There are no redeeming qualities to burning ethanol as engine fuel. If the
politicians didn't keep throwing huge quantities of money, our money, at it
the whole idea would dry up and blow away. Problem is there would be a lot
of voting farmers who would be really peeved. I'm also willing to bet the
next fuel replacement program will also involve farmers so their peeve won't
last too long.
Noel
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of patrick reilly
Sent: 17 May 2009 12:30 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: RE: Yahoo news article - The Great Ethanol Scam
Mike, If ethanol polluted gasoline has virtually no redeeming
characteristics, and government mandating interference in the market economy
promotes only costly inefficienties, as government market interference
always does, there IS only one side! The U.S. feeds the world with corn and
to mandate burning food for energy when there are other sources is... well
you draw your own conclusion.
do not archive
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford, IL
> Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 09:10:10 +0200
> From: michel@online.no
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: RE: Yahoo news article - The Great Ethanol Scam
>
> > From: Rexinator [rexinator@gmail.com]
> > Not that I'm trying to create any debate (certainly here we all agree
ethanol is bad).
> > This just neatly explains the issue.
>
> Yes, I agree that ethanol is bad, Rex, and because of that, I need now to
pay twice as much for Avgas in my Kitfox (with tax deduction I can make,
Mogas is half Avgas in Norway).
>
> But how can anyone pay attention to an article that is aimed only at one
thing: Discredit ethanol? It would be like asking the Pope if he believes in
God.
>
> The idea is to use carbon dioxide neutral energy. Fossil fuel is something
that was supposed to release CO2 millions of years ago. That is the problem!
>
> Is ethanol the correct CO2 neutral fuel? I leave that question to those
who know better than me. But the article from Yahoo was one-sided and if I
am to read that, I may as well read ... er, hum ... Mao's little red book!
:-)
>
> Cheers,
> Michel Verheughe
> Norway
> Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
>
> Do not archive
>
> <pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face <a
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http:="http://www.matr
onics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/co======================
>
> </b></font></pre>
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http://forums.matronics.com
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Message 30
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| Subject: | isogonic lines - semantics |
On Tue, May 19, 2009 10:32 am, Michel Verheughe wrote:
> So, heading and course are the same thing. The difference is that the Americans
call
> it "heading" and the Brits call it " course" ... of course! (Yes, pun intended!)
Heading and course are not the same. Course and track are the same. Heading is
what
you see on your DG or magnetic compass.
> The actual path the aircraft is tracing in relation to the ground is called the
track.
The 'course' and ground track are interchangeable and as far as I know that applies
to
British English too.
> Another difference between American and British English is that the Americans
call the
> magnetic declination for magnetic variation. In fact, the magnetic variation
is, as it
> name says, the yearly variation of the magnetic declination and the magnetic
deviation
> is what deviates it from nearby magnetic structure.
Sectionals and WACs have isogonic lines which are lines of constant magnetic
variation. It would appear that magnetic variation and magnetic declination have
the
same meaning.
<http://www.navfltsm.addr.com/basic-nav-plotcourse.htm>
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contour_line>
<http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Isogonic+lines>
Sometimes it is called magnetic deviation too.
I would use the US Military definition as authoritative though
<https://ntc.cap.af.mil/ops/DOT/school/L23CockpitFam/magneticcompass.cfm>
and they called isogonic lines, lines of constant magnetic variation.
It would appear that variation, declination and deviation are all used for the
same
meaning although the frequency of use when associated with the term isogonic favors
variation.
--
Paul A. Franz
Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT
Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP
Bellevue WA
425.241.1618 Cell
"Maybe it's just me, but I find federal legislation titled 'The GIVE
Act' and 'The SERVE Act' downright creepy. Even more troubling: the $6
billion price tag on these bipartisan bills to expand government-funded
national service efforts. Volunteerism is a wonderful thing, which is
why millions of Americans do it every day without a cent of taxpayer
money. But the volunteerism packages on the Hill are less about
promoting effective charity than about creating make-work, permanent
bureaucracies and Left-wing slush funds. ... Taxpayers GIVE their money
to SERVE a big government agenda under the guise of helping their
fellow man. It's charity at the point of a gun."
-- columnist Michelle Malkin
"You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the
wealthy out of freedom. What one person receives without working
for, another person must work for without receiving. The government
cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first
take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that
they do not have to work because the other half is going to take
care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no
good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work
for, that my dear friend, is about the end of any nation. You
cannot multiply wealth by dividing it."
-- Dr. Adrian Rogers, 1931
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: rudder trim tab |
Many airplanes are designed to have the vertical stab offset so the prop
wash won't skew the plane... in out planes we have the possibility of
changing from a left turning 582 to a right turning 912 so the factory not
knowing what we will install can only set the vert stab straight. That
means to me at least that some sort of tab is going to be necessary.
noel
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of KITFOXZ@aol.com
Sent: 19 May 2009 12:07 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: rudder trim tab
Lynn, Lowell and Mike, others lurking,
I didn't mean to condemn trim tabs and especially cockpit controlled trim
tabs. The point I was hoping to make is that I feel the emphasis should be
on building a good airframe that is straight and true. I don't want to have
a bird that is all bent up and those imperfections compensated for with
hairy items hanging off of every control surface.
These are harsh sounding words I know. I am just trying to make the point
with exaggerations. Engine torque is proportional to power setting and so
is the resultant yaw. I want to cancel it immediately at it's source with
engine thrust line offset. Washers, shims, another engine mount perhaps,
are the cleaner ways to make an airplane fly straight. What I want to
accomplish is a glide that is straight and true first and then do what has
to be done to make the engine pull it in as straight of a path as can be
done even with the imperfections of that rotating, torque inducing, P factor
producing, wind mill out in front.
Of course a cockpit controlled trim tab is used for cross wind trim and
elevator trim is used for load CG variations. But, to permanently bend a
control surface to make up for a faulty thrust line is wrong I feel. If
your car has a front end alignment problem, do you alter the rear axle
alignment to make it go down the road straight? --Albeit in a crab angle?
I love this forum because there are so many points of view that can get
aired. Dead horses are beaten. Feelings are even stepped on but, when it
all is tallied up some do and don't are discovered. Some best practices are
established and airplanes end up flying.
Got to turn in for the night.
John
John P. Marzluf
Columbus, Ohio
Outback (out back in the garage)
In a message dated 5/18/2009 9:44:39 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
orcabonita@hotmail.com writes:
There is nothing wrong with trim tabs. All sorts of much more advanced and
high performance aircraft use trim tabs. Johns washer idea is a good one,
but I doubt it will be enough, and even when you get close to correct, you
will still probably get yaw changes with power, which is exactly why many
manufactured aircraft have rudder trim. Even modern jet airliners have
rudder trim... The theory of building a perfectly straight airplane is good
and something to strive for, but the reality is that you will still probably
need a trim tab in the end. An electric adjustable rudder tab is even
better...
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you
could have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
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Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: New Product Announcement |
Probably a good topic for today.
----- Original Message -----
From: McFarlane Aviation Products
To: info@cessna150-152.ca
Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 10:04
Subject: New Product Announcement
FAA-PMA Manufacturer of Quality Aircraft Parts
New Product
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a.. Two knob styles available: Standard or Ball
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McFarlane's FAA-PMA parts
a.. Available in 4, 6 and 8 foot lengths
- Easily trimmed to length
- Longer controls available upon request
For more information, go to MCT100D series controls.
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Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: isogonic lines - semantics |
To be American correct,
true course is what you get from map, compensate with variation and you get
magnetic course, ad wind correction angle and you get magnetic heading.
ad magnetic deviation (magnetism in aircraft it self) and you have compass
heading.
Heading is where the nose is pointing, not same as compass heading.
And why is there so little whiskey or whisky remaining in the compass?
tracking is the curved line the craft is making on its way from A to B and
have most of the time nothing to do with the true course, and with so
little dampening fluid in the compass ...
Jan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Franz - Merlin GT" <paul@eucleides.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 1:36 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: isogonic lines - semantics
> <paul@eucleides.com>
>
> On Tue, May 19, 2009 10:32 am, Michel Verheughe wrote:
>
>> So, heading and course are the same thing. The difference is that the
>> Americans call
>> it "heading" and the Brits call it " course" ... of course! (Yes, pun
>> intended!)
>
> Heading and course are not the same. Course and track are the same.
> Heading is what
> you see on your DG or magnetic compass.
>
>> The actual path the aircraft is tracing in relation to the ground is
>> called the track.
>
> The 'course' and ground track are interchangeable and as far as I know
> that applies to
> British English too.
>
>> Another difference between American and British English is that the
>> Americans call the
>> magnetic declination for magnetic variation. In fact, the magnetic
>> variation is, as it
>> name says, the yearly variation of the magnetic declination and the
>> magnetic deviation
>> is what deviates it from nearby magnetic structure.
>
> Sectionals and WACs have isogonic lines which are lines of constant
> magnetic
> variation. It would appear that magnetic variation and magnetic
> declination have the
> same meaning.
>
> <http://www.navfltsm.addr.com/basic-nav-plotcourse.htm>
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contour_line>
> <http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Isogonic+lines>
>
> Sometimes it is called magnetic deviation too.
>
> I would use the US Military definition as authoritative though
> <https://ntc.cap.af.mil/ops/DOT/school/L23CockpitFam/magneticcompass.cfm>
> and they called isogonic lines, lines of constant magnetic variation.
>
> It would appear that variation, declination and deviation are all used for
> the same
> meaning although the frequency of use when associated with the term
> isogonic favors
> variation.
> --
> Paul A. Franz
> Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT
> Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP
> Bellevue WA
> 425.241.1618 Cell
>
> "Maybe it's just me, but I find federal legislation titled 'The GIVE
> Act' and 'The SERVE Act' downright creepy. Even more troubling: the $6
> billion price tag on these bipartisan bills to expand government-funded
> national service efforts. Volunteerism is a wonderful thing, which is
> why millions of Americans do it every day without a cent of taxpayer
> money. But the volunteerism packages on the Hill are less about
> promoting effective charity than about creating make-work, permanent
> bureaucracies and Left-wing slush funds. ... Taxpayers GIVE their money
> to SERVE a big government agenda under the guise of helping their
> fellow man. It's charity at the point of a gun."
>
> -- columnist Michelle Malkin
>
> "You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the
> wealthy out of freedom. What one person receives without working
> for, another person must work for without receiving. The government
> cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first
> take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that
> they do not have to work because the other half is going to take
> care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no
> good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work
> for, that my dear friend, is about the end of any nation. You
> cannot multiply wealth by dividing it."
>
> -- Dr. Adrian Rogers, 1931
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
> signature database 4089 (20090519) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
>
>
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox - how high have you gone ? |
>Took mine to 15k today and it was still going. Maybe I take a
>bottle next time and see higher . non turbo 582 whoa !!
My 912S-powered Model IV with Ivo in-flight adjustable prop made it
to 17,500 (a density altitude of 19,200) and it was still climbing
300 feet per minute. The airplane was not instrument capable so I
had to stop there.
Mike G.
N728KF, Kitfox IV-1200 Speedster
Phoenix, AZ
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