Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:25 AM - Re: Heated vest for winter (Larry Huntley)
2. 03:26 AM - Re: Re: jetting a 582 and a choped elbow (Lynn Matteson)
3. 05:37 AM - Re: Re: jetting a 582 and a choped elbow (John W. Hart)
4. 05:53 AM - Re: Heated vest for winter (Tom Jones)
5. 06:01 AM - Re: Heated vest for winter (Tom Jones)
6. 06:25 AM - Re: Re: jetting a 582 and a choped elbow (Bob Brennan)
7. 06:48 AM - Torquing prop bolts (carlisle)
8. 07:13 AM - Re: Torquing prop bolts (Robert Rivard)
9. 07:15 AM - Re: jetting a 582 and a choped elbow (Tom Jones)
10. 07:34 AM - Re: Re: jetting a 582 and a choped elbow (Patrick Reilly)
11. 07:46 AM - Re: Torquing prop bolts (Av8r3400)
12. 09:16 AM - Re: Torquing prop bolts (carlisle)
13. 10:06 AM - Fw: carb jet removal (bob noffs)
14. 10:20 AM - Re: Re: jetting a 582 and a choped elbow (Lynn Matteson)
15. 10:55 AM - Alcohol reminder (Pete Christensen)
16. 11:58 AM - Re: Re: Heated vest for winter (JOSE PACHECO)
17. 01:12 PM - Re: Torquing prop bolts (Tommy Walker)
18. 03:41 PM - Re: Re: Torquing prop bolts (John W. Hart)
19. 04:56 PM - Re: Torquing prop bolts (Tom Jones)
20. 05:45 PM - Re: Torquing prop bolts (Roger Lee)
21. 05:58 PM - Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 40 Msgs - 10/19/09 (Ed Gray)
22. 07:36 PM - Re-Kreem Fuel Tanks (Kitfoxkirk)
23. 08:36 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 40 Msgs - 10/19/09 (Lynn Matteson)
24. 08:52 PM - Re: Re-Kreem Fuel Tanks (Lynn Matteson)
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| Subject: | Re: Heated vest for winter |
Ahh, makes me appreciate My Subaru and its hot water heater plumbed into
the cabin. ;o) I think this is one BIG advantage of water cooled engines.
Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Jones" <nahsikhs@elltel.net>
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 8:06 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Heated vest for winter
>
> Has anyone tried wearing one of those heated vests for winter flying? I
> made several attempts at building heaters the last two years and didn't
> have any satisfactory results.
>
> Here's a link to what I'm talking about.
> http://www.gerbing.com/Products/Liners/heatedVestLiner.html
>
> I was thinking about getting the vest. It uses 44 watts. My engine
> manual says the lighting coils put out 170 watts. I don't have any other
> electrical accessories except the starter and a battery.
>
> --------
> Tom Jones
> Classic IV
> 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
> Ellensburg, WA
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268745#268745
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
03:55:00
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: jetting a 582 and a choped elbow |
(Here we go, regurgitating the Old Wives Tales.....)
Or possibly when you're trying to get into that short little field
because something else went wrong with the plane and you NEED to
land...and just maybe that extra 100 pounds of extra fuel MIGHT just
make a difference in getting it stopped. Or maybe that extra 100
pounds of fuel makes the difference of getting over the "fence" while
taking off.
Yeah, I'm throwing out some pretty "iffy" what-if's, but like the man
(John Deakin) said: "we're trying to have a little fun here, poke a
few holes in some egos, puncture a few OWTs (Old Wives Tales), and
with luck, maybe exercise a few brain cells.
I think the latter part of the statement....." maybe exercise a few
brain cells" is the operative phrase that I came away with. Yes, I
didn't exercise a few brain cells when I ran out of fuel, but that
was from getting so involved in the flight that I went beyond the
range that I had available. Could happen to anybody, and not just
involving fuel.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 801.4 hrs
Countdown to 1000 hrs--199 to go
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: flying (and learning)
On Oct 20, 2009, at 10:21 PM, Patrick Reilly wrote:
> Lynn, The Hell with not being inefficient by carring a few extra
> #'s of fuel. The only time you have too much gas in an airplane is
> when it's on fire!
>
> Pat Reilly
> Mod 3 582 Rebuild
> Rockford, IL
>
> On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 8:01 PM, Marco Menezes <msm_9949@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> A valuable cautionary tale Lynn. Thanks. Why did you hesitate to
> tell it until now? Afterall, it wasn't "off-airport" even if that
> was your intent. ;-)
>
> Marco Menezes N99KX
> Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1 w/clutch
>
> do not archive
>
>
> --- On Mon, 10/19/09, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net> wrote:
>
> From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: jetting a 582 and a choped elbow
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Date: Monday, October 19, 2009, 2:02 PM
>
>
> I've been keeping this little incident a secret up until now, but
> can't keep my mouth shut any longer. While this doesn't come under
> the heading of practice, it was a real world situation.
>
> I needed 2 hours of flight a couple of weeks ago, so I could change
> my oil at my chosen time of 25 hours. I checked the fuel....8
> gallons exactly...enough for a conservative 2 hour flight at my
> recent 3.0--3.8 gph. I took off and headed north, thinking of doing
> a half-hour in each of four directions, and being near home when
> the 2 hours were up. It was great flying weather, and it was mostly
> hands off flying. I kept checking my Northstar fuel flow gauge for
> remaining fuel and also checking the sight gauges in the
> wings...plenty of fuel according to the sight gauges, and adequate,
> according to the Northstar gauge. Getting near the end of my time
> allotment, I saw B25, an airport just into Indiana from the
> Michigan state line. I was curious about this airport, so I circled
> the field a couple of times trying to see if there was a building
> large enough for a B-25 plane, or if one was sitting outside.
> Seeing nothing along those lines, I figured I'd better head for
> home, and turned toward the northeast. I had flown in this
> direction for about 3 minutes, still looking outside and taking in
> the sights, when I caught sight of my low fuel warning light which
> was brightly lit. My clear vent line up to the right-hand fuel tank
> was empty, so I knew I was in deep do-do. I hit the NRST button on
> my GPS and saw Williams County (0G6) as the closest airport. This
> airport is just east of Bryan, Ohio, and 13 miles away from my
> (then) present location. The engine was still running, and I was at
> about 4,000 feet MSL. I pointed it in that direction, and hoped for
> the best, all the while looking for a place to land. I had covered
> about 7 miles when the engine stopped. I had tried to position the
> plane to allow the fuel to get to the port, but also hoping to make
> the airport, which meant "quit screwing around with the fuel and
> streamline the plane for best glide". Now I *really* started to
> look for fields. I could tell that I didn't want to try to stretch
> the glide, because this would put me...possibly...right over Bryan,
> Ohio, and that was not appealing at all. I'd covered maybe another
> mile when I saw a long green stretch of land between all the brown
> fields of beans growing in the area. I said to my self that this
> was gonna become an airport in the next few minutes, and started to
> slip down toward it. The wind was from about 220 and this strip of
> green was running 9-27. I was north of it, and I didn't want to try
> landing into the wind because that would have eaten up too much
> altitude. So here I was slipping it down to the west end of this
> "soon-to-become airport" at a pretty good clip, and finally had to
> straighten it out and put it down. When it finally touched down, I
> was going pretty damn fast, and got all over the brakes and it
> pulled to the right and headed for the beans. I got that
> straightened out and kept braking hard, with the nose of the plane
> getting too damn close to the ground...I'd never had the tail that
> high before on the ground, and I was pretty sure that I'd have to
> turn it into the beans to arrest the speed if I got much closer to
> the road which was coming up fast. Man, stuff was going by fast and
> the road was getting bigger, when it finally slowed enough to drop
> the tail. When I got out and looked around, I saw a plywood sign in
> the shape of an airplane, a wind sock, and a long building that
> looked like a series of hangars. I had landed at an real-life
> airport, complete with porta-potty and way too-long (thank God )
> grass. (I later found out that this is called "Al's Place", by the
> locals) There was nobody at this airport, but I made a call and a
> nice man from 0G6 came out with fuel....he knew exactly where I had
> landed. I'll quit the story there because that was the important
> part...the landing and getting the fuel so I could continue home.
>
> All this is to point out that what Deke mentioned is true....it is
> ( in my opinion) excellent practice to do what he said, although
> try to do it when you already have the airport in sight, and try to
> do it into a headwind, not with a tailwind like I was forced to do.
> I also didn't have my goggles nor any hearing protection, which
> would have been nice to block out the screams coming from the cabin.
>
> By the way, what got me messed up was relying on the sight gauges
> more than the Northstar gauge. The fuel splashes up into those
> sight gauges, giving a false sense of more fuel than is actually
> there. And I had set the "GAS" reading on the Northstar to read 24
> gallons when I had filled it the last time, not taking into account
> the unusable fuel. When I was circling over B25, I had the right
> wing up, and this was forcing the right tank to empty, and the left
> tank to unport. When I leveled off and headed for home, the right
> tank was empty, and the left tank was taking its own sweet time to
> re-supply the header tank with fuel, if indeed it had any to offer.
>
> I've since then only entered 20 gallons into the Northstar under
> "GAS" after a fill-up, and only trust the sight gauges when the
> plane is rock steady.
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 800.0 hrs
> Countdown to 1000 hrs--200 to go
> Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
> Electroair direct-fire ignition system
> Rotec TBI-40 injection
> Status: flying (and learning)
> do not archive
>
>
> On Oct 19, 2009, at 9:56 AM, fox5flyer wrote:
>
> > However, I still see no great risk why one couldn't practice a
> real world engine out by shutting down on downwind with a good long
> runway, have your tools ready, pull over off to the side and do a
> quick check. Of course, it's best to announce intentions, wear
> goggles, hearing protection, inform fire department... :-)
> = --> http:=======================
>
>
> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List ttp://
> forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> www.matronics.com/contribution _-
> ===========================================================
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: jetting a 582 and a choped elbow |
You and anyone else are certainly entitled to your opinions and theories
pertaining to flying. I think I'll stick to mine. In the 48 years I have
been flying, I have never been forced to land due to low or no fuel, or
weather, nor have I ever broken an aircraft. I've had a few shot down, but
don't accept responsibility for folks putting bullet holes in them. In my
flying career, I flew as a military pilot for 26 years, and 10 years after
that in the Alaska bush, accumulated several thousand hours in both rotary
and fixed wing aircraft, and I've seen quite a number of aircrew members,
both military and civilian, perish because they made a decision that
resulted in an unfavorable outcome. I just ain't no bold pilot.
John Hart
KF IV, NSI Subaru
Wilburton, OK
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 8:22 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: jetting a 582 and a choped elbow
Maybe it's time to look at fuel management from a different view, not
from 48 years ago. Here's an excerpt from John Deakin's article (I
took the liberty of inserting the explanation of OWT's)
**********************
Fuel Management
I'd like to take a look at fuel management, and since my method
sometimes calls for running a tank dry, let's get that out of the way
first.
OWTs (Old Wives Tales)
I hate OWTs. There are new ones, and there are old ones, and they
seem to have a life of their own, with no way to kill them. "Beware
the downwind turn," "never turn into the dead engine," and "don't run
lean of peak" are all so silly, yet they persist, even among people
who should know better. Other stupidities are "The only time you have
too much fuel is when you're on fire," "the three most useless things
in aviation are runway behind you, fuel in the truck, and altitude
above you" (or variations on that theme), and the endless inane
argument over whether pitch controls speed or altitude. I hope to
shoot at some of those in future columns.
******************************************
I happen to be one of those hippies that carried the bumper sticker
"Question Authority" on their car, so I am the perfect candidate to
listen to a different view about these "old wives tales", even if it
means making a mistake every now and again.
I appreciate what wisdom has come since aviation began, but sometimes
it's nice to listen to a fresh voice about some of these long-held
pearls of wisdom. Aviation would never had made it this far if we'd
always listened to, and followed, the "safe" advice.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 801.4 hrs
Countdown to 1000 hrs--199 to go
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: flying (and learning)
On Oct 20, 2009, at 7:29 PM, John W. Hart wrote:
> <helili@chahtatushka.net>
>
> I learned something about 48 years ago about fuel on board. The
> guy that
> taught to fly me was a WWII fighter pilot, European Theatre. He
> opined that
> he never did mind flying on half a tank of fuel, as long as it was
> the top
> half. I feel the same way. Fuel in the storage tank at the airport,
> altitude above you, and runway behind you can't help you much.
>
> John Hart
> KF IV, NSI Subaru
> Wilburton, OK
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Heated vest for winter |
Lion8 wrote:
> I have used a vest for a few years now flying my Trike in winter. It works great.
The only caveat is you must charge the battery every two or three weeks to
keep it from going dead. If you can, get one that plugs into a power port or
has replaceable batteries.
Tom, is that battery hooked to the engine charging system?
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268785#268785
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Heated vest for winter |
Thanks for the replies everyone. It sounds like I should invest in one of these
heated vests or maybe a jacket liner.
My Kitfox is bare bones basic as far as accessory equipment goes and I would like
to keep it that way.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268786#268786
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| Subject: | Re: jetting a 582 and a choped elbow |
Hey all,
I've read a lot of threads here about fuel problems with the header-tank
system in what seems to be most Kitfoxes out there. I have a Model 2 with a
9.6 gallon main tank behind the panel and a 6 gallon reserve tank in the
starboard wing and it seems to me that system avoids all of these problems.
There is no unusable fuel - the main tank is funnel shaped and drains down
to the last drop. I have a low fuel indicator light from a float in the main
tank - when it lights up I know there is enough room to dump the 6 reserve
gallons in, and if I have already dumped the reserve then I know I should
land within an hour. On short flights I also can be careless with how much
is in the main tank, I like to fly light like Lynn, but I keep a gallon or
so in the wing tank which is light enough to not interfere with wing folding
and could save my bacon if the main tank runs dry. The biggest issue is
remembering to dump that reserve fuel into the main tank every few weeks and
put in a fresh gallon.
So what's wrong with that "old" system? Why did Kitfox switch to the header
tank and all the problems associated with it? I know panel space was a
problem but with my LCD engine monitoring system I have a spare hole in the
panel that I am looking to fill and most other slots hold redundant
instruments for safety.
Bob Brennan - N717GB
ELSA Repairman, inspection rated
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox taildragger
Rotax 582 with 3 blade GSC prop
Wrightsville Pa
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson
Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 6:24 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: jetting a 582 and a choped elbow
(Here we go, regurgitating the Old Wives Tales.....)
Or possibly when you're trying to get into that short little field
because something else went wrong with the plane and you NEED to
land...and just maybe that extra 100 pounds of extra fuel MIGHT just
make a difference in getting it stopped. Or maybe that extra 100
pounds of fuel makes the difference of getting over the "fence" while
taking off.
Yeah, I'm throwing out some pretty "iffy" what-if's, but like the man
(John Deakin) said: "we're trying to have a little fun here, poke a
few holes in some egos, puncture a few OWTs (Old Wives Tales), and
with luck, maybe exercise a few brain cells.
I think the latter part of the statement....." maybe exercise a few
brain cells" is the operative phrase that I came away with. Yes, I
didn't exercise a few brain cells when I ran out of fuel, but that
was from getting so involved in the flight that I went beyond the
range that I had available. Could happen to anybody, and not just
involving fuel.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 801.4 hrs
Countdown to 1000 hrs--199 to go
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: flying (and learning)
Message 7
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| Subject: | Torquing prop bolts |
Was surfing around and found this little note on another forum. It applies to
a Zenair but struck a note with me. Every time I go to retorque my GSC 66" adjustable
pitch prop, the bolts are loose. The prop was just inspected and overhauled
by GSC. My torque wrench is calibrated, etc, etc.
Anyway, here's the topic:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Our CH601HD Zodiac with a Rotax 912S 100 HP engine has a 68-inch, 3-blade
GSC wooden prop. In our installation, there is a prop flange extension.
The prop is held on by 6 1/4-inch bolts (3 through the aluminum blade
roots), and by 6 5/16-inch bolts onto the flange extension. GSC Systems
says use 100 inch pounds of torque for the 1/4 inch bolts, and 140 for the
5/16; these values are critical. Normally, with a washer under both the
head and the nut, one holds the bolt head stationary, and torques the
nylon lock nut; these nyloks are the preferred nuts recommended by GSC.
Because of the design of the prop flange extension, it is not possible to
get the torque wrench onto the nuts. Thus, one holds the nut stationary,
and torques the bolt head. THIS IS NOT THE SAME THING. My son Peter
(co-builder of our aircraft, and a professional mechanical engineer) knows
from practical experience that putting the torque wrench on the bolt head
can undertorque the nut by possibly 20-30%, or even more. It stands to
reason: the bolt shaft (or grip) inevitably experiences some friction in
passing through the parts being bolted together on the way to the nut.
There is a little part called a "crow's foot" to overcome this difficulty,
which goes over the nut, extends radially outward for about an inch, and
has a square hole for attachment of the torque wrench. It happened that I
had always torqued the prop bolts on our aircraft. In setting out to
retorque the bolts yesterday because the weather is now turning cold,
Peter realized right away that there was a problem. I had never used a
crow's foot (I did not know of their existence!). I'm guessing that many
others using this Rotax/GSC prop installation were also unaware of this
problem. What have others done about this? Were they aware of the
problem?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anyone else run into this problem?
Chris
Model 2, 582
Sioux Falls, SD
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268792#268792
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Torquing prop bolts |
Using a crows foot or any extension of the torque wrench will change the to
rque that you read on the wrench. How much?
BOB
--- On Wed, 10/21/09, carlisle <carlisle_99@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: carlisle <carlisle_99@yahoo.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Torquing prop bolts
Was surfing around and found this little note on another forum.- It appli
es to a Zenair but struck a note with me.- Every time I go to retorque my
GSC 66" adjustable pitch prop, the bolts are loose.- The prop was just i
nspected and overhauled by GSC.- My torque wrench is calibrated, etc, etc
.
Anyway, here's the topic:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
Our CH601HD Zodiac with a Rotax 912S 100 HP engine has a 68-inch, 3-blade
GSC wooden prop.- In our installation, there is a prop flange extension.
The prop is held on by 6 1/4-inch bolts (3 through the aluminum blade
roots), and by 6 5/16-inch bolts onto the flange extension.- GSC Systems
says use 100 inch pounds of torque for the 1/4 inch bolts, and 140 for the
5/16; these values are critical.- Normally, with a washer under both the
head and the nut, one holds the bolt head stationary, and torques the
nylon lock nut; these nyloks are the preferred nuts recommended by GSC.
Because of the design of the prop flange extension, it is not possible to
get the torque wrench onto the nuts.- Thus, one holds the nut stationary,
and torques the bolt head.- THIS IS NOT THE SAME THING.- My son Peter
(co-builder of our aircraft, and a professional mechanical engineer) knows
from practical experience that putting the torque wrench on the bolt head
can undertorque the nut by possibly 20-30%, or even more.- It stands to
reason: the bolt shaft (or grip) inevitably experiences some friction in
passing through the parts being bolted together on the way to the nut.
There is a little part called a "crow's foot" to overcome this difficulty,
which goes over the nut, extends radially outward for about an inch, and
has a square hole for attachment of the torque wrench.- It happened that
I
had always torqued the prop bolts on our aircraft.- In setting out to
retorque the bolts yesterday because the weather is now turning cold,
Peter realized right away that there was a problem.- I had never used a
crow's foot (I did not know of their existence!).- I'm guessing that many
others using this Rotax/GSC prop installation were also unaware of this
problem.- What have others done about this?- Were they aware of the
problem?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
Anyone else run into this problem?
Chris
Model 2, 582
Sioux Falls, SD
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268792#268792
le, List Admin.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: jetting a 582 and a choped elbow |
> So what's wrong with that "old" system? Why did Kitfox switch to the header
> tank and all the problems associated with it? I know panel space was a
> problem but with my LCD engine monitoring system I have a spare hole in the
> panel that I am looking to fill and most other slots hold redundant
> instruments for safety.
Bob, I have the same fuel system and like being able to see the fuel remaining.
My opinion is people do want more panel space. Also, the biggest objection I think
is being able to see all that gas sitting in your lap. A lot of planes have
a panel tank but in most you can't see the gas so they don't think about it.
The DAR that inspected my plane commented about an experience he had in a J3 Cub.
He was flying along and for some reason was messing with something under the
panel. he didn't know the fuel tank was almost rusted through until he stuck
his finger through the bottom of it.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268797#268797
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/smallpanel_801.jpg
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: jetting a 582 and a choped elbow |
Lynn, How you gonna get an "extra" 100# of fuel on board a Kitfox?
do not archive
Pat
On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 5:24 AM, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net> wrote:
>
>
> (Here we go, regurgitating the Old Wives Tales.....)
>
> Or possibly when you're trying to get into that short little field becaus
e
> something else went wrong with the plane and you NEED to land...and just
> maybe that extra 100 pounds of extra fuel MIGHT just make a difference in
> getting it stopped. Or maybe that extra 100 pounds of fuel makes the
> difference of getting over the "fence" while taking off.
>
> Yeah, I'm throwing out some pretty "iffy" what-if's, but like the man (Jo
hn
> Deakin) said: "we're trying to have a little fun here, poke a few holes i
n
> some egos, puncture a few OWTs (Old Wives Tales), and with luck, maybe
> exercise a few brain cells.
>
> I think the latter part of the statement....." maybe exercise a few brain
> cells" is the operative phrase that I came away with. Yes, I didn't exerc
ise
> a few brain cells when I ran out of fuel, but that was from getting so
> involved in the flight that I went beyond the range that I had available.
> Could happen to anybody, and not just involving fuel.
>
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 801.4 hrs
> Countdown to 1000 hrs--199 to go
> Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
> Electroair direct-fire ignition system
> Rotec TBI-40 injection
> Status: flying (and learning)
>
>
> On Oct 20, 2009, at 10:21 PM, Patrick Reilly wrote:
>
> Lynn, The Hell with not being inefficient by carring a few extra #'s of
>> fuel. The only time you have too much gas in an airplane is when it's on
>> fire!
>>
>> Pat Reilly
>> Mod 3 582 Rebuild
>> Rockford, IL
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 8:01 PM, Marco Menezes <msm_9949@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>> A valuable cautionary tale Lynn. Thanks. Why did you hesitate to tell it
>> until now? Afterall, it wasn't "off-airport" even if that was your inten
t.
>> ;-)
>>
>> Marco Menezes N99KX
>> Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1 w/clutch
>>
>> do not archive
>>
>>
>>
>> --- On Mon, 10/19/09, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net> wrote:
>>
>> From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: jetting a 582 and a choped elbow
>> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>> Date: Monday, October 19, 2009, 2:02 PM
>>
>>
>> I've been keeping this little incident a secret up until now, but can't
>> keep my mouth shut any longer. While this doesn't come under the heading
of
>> practice, it was a real world situation.
>>
>> I needed 2 hours of flight a couple of weeks ago, so I could change my o
il
>> at my chosen time of 25 hours. I checked the fuel....8 gallons
>> exactly...enough for a conservative 2 hour flight at my recent 3.0--3.8
gph.
>> I took off and headed north, thinking of doing a half-hour in each of fo
ur
>> directions, and being near home when the 2 hours were up. It was great
>> flying weather, and it was mostly hands off flying. I kept checking my
>> Northstar fuel flow gauge for remaining fuel and also checking the sight
>> gauges in the wings...plenty of fuel according to the sight gauges, and
>> adequate, according to the Northstar gauge. Getting near the end of my t
ime
>> allotment, I saw B25, an airport just into Indiana from the Michigan st
ate
>> line. I was curious about this airport, so I circled the field a couple
of
>> times trying to see if there was a building large enough for a B-25 plan
e,
>> or if one was sitting outside. Seeing nothing along those lines, I figur
ed
>> I'd better head for home, and turned toward the northeast. I had flown i
n
>> this direction for about 3 minutes, still looking outside and taking in
the
>> sights, when I caught sight of my low fuel warning light which was brigh
tly
>> lit. My clear vent line up to the right-hand fuel tank was empty, so I k
new
>> I was in deep do-do. I hit the NRST button on my GPS and saw Williams Co
unty
>> (0G6) as the closest airport. This airport is just east of Bryan, Ohio,
and
>> 13 miles away from my (then) present location. The engine was still runn
ing,
>> and I was at about 4,000 feet MSL. I pointed it in that direction, and h
oped
>> for the best, all the while looking for a place to land. I had covered a
bout
>> 7 miles when the engine stopped. I had tried to position the plane to al
low
>> the fuel to get to the port, but also hoping to make the airport, which
>> meant "quit screwing around with the fuel and streamline the plane for b
est
>> glide". Now I *really* started to look for fields. I could tell that I
>> didn't want to try to stretch the glide, because this would put
>> me...possibly...right over Bryan, Ohio, and that was not appealing at al
l.
>> I'd covered maybe another mile when I saw a long green stretch of land
>> between all the brown fields of beans growing in the area. I said to my
self
>> that this was gonna become an airport in the next few minutes, and start
ed
>> to slip down toward it. The wind was from about 220=B0 and this strip of
green
>> was running 9-27. I was north of it, and I didn't want to try landing in
to
>> the wind because that would have eaten up too much altitude. So here I w
as
>> slipping it down to the west end of this "soon-to-become airport" at a
>> pretty good clip, and finally had to straighten it out and put it down.
When
>> it finally touched down, I was going pretty damn fast, and got all over
the
>> brakes and it pulled to the right and headed for the beans. I got that
>> straightened out and kept braking hard, with the nose of the plane getti
ng
>> too damn close to the ground...I'd never had the tail that high before o
n
>> the ground, and I was pretty sure that I'd have to turn it into the bean
s to
>> arrest the speed if I got much closer to the road which was coming up fa
st.
>> Man, stuff was going by fast and the road was getting bigger, when it
>> finally slowed enough to drop the tail. When I got out and looked around
, I
>> saw a plywood sign in the shape of an airplane, a wind sock, and a long
>> building that looked like a series of hangars. I had landed at an real-l
ife
>> airport, complete with porta-potty and way too-long (thank God ) grass.
(I
>> later found out that this is called "Al's Place", by the locals) There w
as
>> nobody at this airport, but I made a call and a nice man from 0G6 came o
ut
>> with fuel....he knew exactly where I had landed. I'll quit the story the
re
>> because that was the important part...the landing and getting the fuel s
o I
>> could continue home.
>>
>> All this is to point out that what Deke mentioned is true....it is ( in
my
>> opinion) excellent practice to do what he said, although try to do it wh
en
>> you already have the airport in sight, and try to do it into a headwind,
not
>> with a tailwind like I was forced to do. I also didn't have my goggles n
or
>> any hearing protection, which would have been nice to block out the scre
ams
>> coming from the cabin.
>>
>> By the way, what got me messed up was relying on the sight gauges more
>> than the Northstar gauge. The fuel splashes up into those sight gauges,
>> giving a false sense of more fuel than is actually there. And I had set
the
>> "GAS" reading on the Northstar to read 24 gallons when I had filled it t
he
>> last time, not taking into account the unusable fuel. When I was circlin
g
>> over B25, I had the right wing up, and this was forcing the right tank t
o
>> empty, and the left tank to unport. When I leveled off and headed for ho
me,
>> the right tank was empty, and the left tank was taking its own sweet tim
e to
>> re-supply the header tank with fuel, if indeed it had any to offer.
>>
>> I've since then only entered 20 gallons into the Northstar under "GAS"
>> after a fill-up, and only trust the sight gauges when the plane is rock
>> steady.
>>
>> Lynn Matteson
>> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
>> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 800.0 hrs
>> Countdown to 1000 hrs--200 to go
>> Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
>> Electroair direct-fire ignition system
>> Rotec TBI-40 injection
>> Status: flying (and learning)
>> do not archive
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Oct 19, 2009, at 9:56 AM, fox5flyer wrote:
>>
>> > However, I still see no great risk why one couldn't practice a real
>> world engine out by shutting down on downwind with a good long runway, h
ave
>> your tools ready, pull over off to the side and do a quick check. Of
>> course, it's best to announce intentions, wear goggles, hearing protecti
on,
>> inform fire department... :-)
>> = --> http:===================
====
>>
>>
>>
>> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List ttp://
>> forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
=====================
>>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Torquing prop bolts |
Check my reply here (http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/showpost.php?p=5293&postcount=2) for a couple of good links on the torque error with a crow-foot socket.
--------
Thanks,
Av8r3400
Kitfox Model IV-1200 W/912UL & IVO
Kitfox Model IV-1050 W/912UL & Warp
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268802#268802
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Torquing prop bolts |
I guess my issue with the crow's foot is that it's imprecise. The reason you should
torque on the nut instead of the bolt head is that there are no other resistances.
If you're on the bolt head, one has no way of knowing how much resistance
there is to torquing along the length of the shaft. Therefore, it's anyone's
guess as to just how much you should compensate. I think that the 20-30%
advocated in the original thread is an estimation and probably ok for non
critical/structural applications. Holding the propeller on the airplane is not
one of these however.
My A&P mechanic buddies say that a crow's foot is not designed for this. They
also say that a little loosening of the prop flange bolts is normal and 'figured
in' when determining the correct torque settings, especially with a wooden
prop where expansion/contraction has to be taken into account.
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268818#268818
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| Subject: | Fwd: carb jet removal |
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: bob noffs <icubob@gmail.com>
Subject: carb jet removal
fyi, i had a jet with a messed up slot which i couldn't remove from the carb
body with a screwdriver. took about 10 seconds with an easy out!
bob noffs
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: jetting a 582 and a choped elbow |
6 lbs (1 gallon of fuel) times 16-2/3 gallons= 100 lbs. I have two 13-
gallon tanks...one in each wing, plus a header tank of about 1-gallon
capacity. If I fill both tanks that's 156 lbs of fuel, and I'll leave
the header tank out of this. 56 lbs of fuel would be 9-1/3 gallons.
I'm sure that there are those of us...me at least...that have flown
with 9 gallons of fuel left in their plane. You may not want to start
a trip with only 9 gallons aboard, but I'll bet you've landed with
only 9 gallons left at one time or another, so it's possible to fly
the plane and then land and pour in "an extra 100 lbs of fuel".
In fact, didn't some early Kitfox's have ONLY a 6-gallon tank....and
a gas-guzzling 2-stroke to boot? Naturally I would not suggest anyone
fly one of those planes without filling at each and every landing.
All I'm suggesting is that for local trips around the patch, flying
to the local $100 'burger joint, or just flying for an hour in the
evening, it is not necessary...for me...to fly with FULL tanks every
time I take off, IF you have two 13-gallon tanks. You have to do the
math, and see if you NEED to lug all that fuel with you. My mistake
the other day was to note that I had fuel enough for two hours....by
actual testing of my planes' capacity...and then go brain dead and
not realize that the two hours was up. When I made my cross-country
trip to California, I filled every time I made the last landing of
the day, and on some days, I had to make an intermediate filling.
When I got into high density altitude conditions, I had to calculate
whether or not I wanted to fill up or fly light, get over the ridge,
whatever, and then fill again when I was into "flatlands" with
numerous fueling stations. To me, it was a matter of doing some math,
and keeping the plane set up for the conditions ahead.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 801.4 hrs
Countdown to 1000 hrs--199 to go
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: flying (and learning)
do not archive
On Oct 21, 2009, at 10:28 AM, Patrick Reilly wrote:
> Lynn, How you gonna get an "extra" 100# of fuel on board a Kitfox?
> do not archive
> Pat
>
> On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 5:24 AM, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
> wrote:
>
>
> (Here we go, regurgitating the Old Wives Tales.....)
>
> Or possibly when you're trying to get into that short little field
> because something else went wrong with the plane and you NEED to
> land...and just maybe that extra 100 pounds of extra fuel MIGHT
> just make a difference in getting it stopped. Or maybe that extra
> 100 pounds of fuel makes the difference of getting over the "fence"
> while taking off.
>
> Yeah, I'm throwing out some pretty "iffy" what-if's, but like the
> man (John Deakin) said: "we're trying to have a little fun here,
> poke a few holes in some egos, puncture a few OWTs (Old Wives
> Tales), and with luck, maybe exercise a few brain cells.
>
> I think the latter part of the statement....." maybe exercise a few
> brain cells" is the operative phrase that I came away with. Yes, I
> didn't exercise a few brain cells when I ran out of fuel, but that
> was from getting so involved in the flight that I went beyond the
> range that I had available. Could happen to anybody, and not just
> involving fuel.
>
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 801.4 hrs
> Countdown to 1000 hrs--199 to go
>
> Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
> Electroair direct-fire ignition system
> Rotec TBI-40 injection
> Status: flying (and learning)
>
>
> On Oct 20, 2009, at 10:21 PM, Patrick Reilly wrote:
>
> Lynn, The Hell with not being inefficient by carring a few extra
> #'s of fuel. The only time you have too much gas in an airplane is
> when it's on fire!
>
> Pat Reilly
> Mod 3 582 Rebuild
> Rockford, IL
>
> On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 8:01 PM, Marco Menezes <msm_9949@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> A valuable cautionary tale Lynn. Thanks. Why did you hesitate to
> tell it until now? Afterall, it wasn't "off-airport" even if that
> was your intent. ;-)
>
> Marco Menezes N99KX
> Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1 w/clutch
>
> do not archive
>
>
> --- On Mon, 10/19/09, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net> wrote:
>
> From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: jetting a 582 and a choped elbow
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Date: Monday, October 19, 2009, 2:02 PM
>
>
> I've been keeping this little incident a secret up until now, but
> can't keep my mouth shut any longer. While this doesn't come under
> the heading of practice, it was a real world situation.
>
> I needed 2 hours of flight a couple of weeks ago, so I could change
> my oil at my chosen time of 25 hours. I checked the fuel....8
> gallons exactly...enough for a conservative 2 hour flight at my
> recent 3.0--3.8 gph. I took off and headed north, thinking of doing
> a half-hour in each of four directions, and being near home when
> the 2 hours were up. It was great flying weather, and it was mostly
> hands off flying. I kept checking my Northstar fuel flow gauge for
> remaining fuel and also checking the sight gauges in the
> wings...plenty of fuel according to the sight gauges, and adequate,
> according to the Northstar gauge. Getting near the end of my time
> allotment, I saw B25, an airport just into Indiana from the
> Michigan state line. I was curious about this airport, so I circled
> the field a couple of times trying to see if there was a building
> large enough for a B-25 plane, or if one was sitting outside.
> Seeing nothing along those lines, I figured I'd better head for
> home, and turned toward the northeast. I had flown in this
> direction for about 3 minutes, still looking outside and taking in
> the sights, when I caught sight of my low fuel warning light which
> was brightly lit. My clear vent line up to the right-hand fuel tank
> was empty, so I knew I was in deep do-do. I hit the NRST button on
> my GPS and saw Williams County (0G6) as the closest airport. This
> airport is just east of Bryan, Ohio, and 13 miles away from my
> (then) present location. The engine was still running, and I was at
> about 4,000 feet MSL. I pointed it in that direction, and hoped for
> the best, all the while looking for a place to land. I had covered
> about 7 miles when the engine stopped. I had tried to position the
> plane to allow the fuel to get to the port, but also hoping to make
> the airport, which meant "quit screwing around with the fuel and
> streamline the plane for best glide". Now I *really* started to
> look for fields. I could tell that I didn't want to try to stretch
> the glide, because this would put me...possibly...right over Bryan,
> Ohio, and that was not appealing at all. I'd covered maybe another
> mile when I saw a long green stretch of land between all the brown
> fields of beans growing in the area. I said to my self that this
> was gonna become an airport in the next few minutes, and started to
> slip down toward it. The wind was from about 220 and this strip of
> green was running 9-27. I was north of it, and I didn't want to try
> landing into the wind because that would have eaten up too much
> altitude. So here I was slipping it down to the west end of this
> "soon-to-become airport" at a pretty good clip, and finally had to
> straighten it out and put it down. When it finally touched down, I
> was going pretty damn fast, and got all over the brakes and it
> pulled to the right and headed for the beans. I got that
> straightened out and kept braking hard, with the nose of the plane
> getting too damn close to the ground...I'd never had the tail that
> high before on the ground, and I was pretty sure that I'd have to
> turn it into the beans to arrest the speed if I got much closer to
> the road which was coming up fast. Man, stuff was going by fast and
> the road was getting bigger, when it finally slowed enough to drop
> the tail. When I got out and looked around, I saw a plywood sign in
> the shape of an airplane, a wind sock, and a long building that
> looked like a series of hangars. I had landed at an real-life
> airport, complete with porta-potty and way too-long (thank God )
> grass. (I later found out that this is called "Al's Place", by the
> locals) There was nobody at this airport, but I made a call and a
> nice man from 0G6 came out with fuel....he knew exactly where I had
> landed. I'll quit the story there because that was the important
> part...the landing and getting the fuel so I could continue home.
>
> All this is to point out that what Deke mentioned is true....it is
> ( in my opinion) excellent practice to do what he said, although
> try to do it when you already have the airport in sight, and try to
> do it into a headwind, not with a tailwind like I was forced to do.
> I also didn't have my goggles nor any hearing protection, which
> would have been nice to block out the screams coming from the cabin.
>
> By the way, what got me messed up was relying on the sight gauges
> more than the Northstar gauge. The fuel splashes up into those
> sight gauges, giving a false sense of more fuel than is actually
> there. And I had set the "GAS" reading on the Northstar to read 24
> gallons when I had filled it the last time, not taking into account
> the unusable fuel. When I was circling over B25, I had the right
> wing up, and this was forcing the right tank to empty, and the left
> tank to unport. When I leveled off and headed for home, the right
> tank was empty, and the left tank was taking its own sweet time to
> re-supply the header tank with fuel, if indeed it had any to offer.
>
> I've since then only entered 20 gallons into the Northstar under
> "GAS" after a fill-up, and only trust the sight gauges when the
> plane is rock steady.
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 800.0 hrs
> Countdown to 1000 hrs--200 to go
> Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
> Electroair direct-fire ignition system
> Rotec TBI-40 injection
> Status: flying (and learning)
> do not archive
>
>
> On Oct 19, 2009, at 9:56 AM, fox5flyer wrote:
>
> > However, I still see no great risk why one couldn't practice a
> real world engine out by shutting down on downwind with a good long
> runway, have your tools ready, pull over off to the side and do a
> quick check. Of course, it's best to announce intentions, wear
> goggles, hearing protection, inform fire department... :-)
> = --> http:=======================
>
>
> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List ttp://
> forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> www=====================
> as List Un/Subscription,
> www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List" target="_blank">http://
> www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
> ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
> Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> ====
>
>
> www.matronics.com/contribution _-
> ===========================================================
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| Subject: | Alcohol reminder |
Just a reminder. They just switched to alcohol in the fuel in my
neighborhood for the winter. I noticed the "sticker" on the pump and tested
it. Last week it was alcohol free. Anyone know of a source of mogas or
alcohol free car gas in the Austin area?
Pete
Kitfox III, 912, grove
Leander, TX (N of Austin)
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Heated vest for winter |
Tom
When I-was younger and lacking common sense I used to ride motorcycles al
l year long.My most prized posetion was a 12 volt-heated vest and gloves.
-5 below zero was no problem
They worked great.Problem was stopping on snow'.They worked best with a car
hart insulated coverall.
Joe
--- On Wed, 10/21/09, Tom Jones <nahsikhs@elltel.net> wrote:
From: Tom Jones <nahsikhs@elltel.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Heated vest for winter
Thanks for the replies everyone.- It sounds like I should invest in one o
f these heated vests or maybe a jacket liner.
My Kitfox is bare bones basic as far as accessory equipment goes and I woul
d like to keep it that way.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268786#268786
le, List Admin.
=0A=0A=0A
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| Subject: | Re: Torquing prop bolts |
Hi,
Just wondering. Is there a FAR that requires that bolts go from front to rear?
Could the bolt head be placed in the rear and the nut in front. I had a Warp
Drive prop on a 912, and I believe the instructions for assembly of the prop
and hub specified this.
Tommy Walker in Alabama
Do Not Archive.
carlisle wrote:
> Was surfing around and found this little note on another forum. It applies to
a Zenair but struck a note with me. Every time I go to retorque my GSC 66"
adjustable pitch prop, the bolts are loose. The prop was just inspected and overhauled
by GSC. My torque wrench is calibrated, etc, etc.
>
> Anyway, here's the topic:
>
> Chris
> Model 2, 582
> Sioux Falls, SD
--------
Tommy Walker
N8701 - Anniston, AL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268843#268843
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| Subject: | Re: Torquing prop bolts |
Nope. It's not a FAA/PMA prop. No FAR specifies which way bolts are
installed. There are Advisory Circulars that recommend certain ways to
install bolts, but manufacturer's recommended procedures take precedence
over AC recommendations, even in the case of FAA/PMA approved products.
John Hart
KF IV, NSI Subaru
Wilburton, OK
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tommy Walker
Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 3:10 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Torquing prop bolts
Hi,
Just wondering. Is there a FAR that requires that bolts go from front to
rear? Could the bolt head be placed in the rear and the nut in front. I
had a Warp Drive prop on a 912, and I believe the instructions for assembly
of the prop and hub specified this.
Tommy Walker in Alabama
Do Not Archive.
carlisle wrote:
> Was surfing around and found this little note on another forum. It
applies to a Zenair but struck a note with me. Every time I go to retorque
my GSC 66" adjustable pitch prop, the bolts are loose. The prop was just
inspected and overhauled by GSC. My torque wrench is calibrated, etc, etc.
>
> Anyway, here's the topic:
>
> Chris
> Model 2, 582
> Sioux Falls, SD
--------
Tommy Walker
N8701 - Anniston, AL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268843#268843
Message 19
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
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| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
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|
| Subject: | Re: Torquing prop bolts |
Carlisle wrote:
> Every time I go to retorque my GSC 66" adjustable pitch prop, the bolts are loose.
The prop was just inspected and overhauled by GSC. My torque wrench is calibrated,
etc, etc.
Chris, which bolt circle do your prop bolts use on your 582 prop flange and are
they threaded? Some people have been known to use 5/16 bolts in the holes that
are actually 8mm. 5/16 is a hair smaller than the 8mm. If the bolts are correct
and you use either saftey wire through the heads or nylock lock nuts on
the bolts I would say, if they are loose, the prop has shrunk.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268860#268860
Message 20
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|
| Subject: | Re: Torquing prop bolts |
Here you go. See attached for Crowsfoot torque calculation. It's not a huge change,
just a slight one. Play with the calculation it isn't hard. Just kind of
fill in the blanks and a simple math problem.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Service Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268863#268863
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/torque_with_a_crowfoot_calculation_172.pdf
Message 21
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| Subject: | RE: Kitfox-List Digest: 40 Msgs - 10/19/09 |
Lynn, you are trippin man! I didn't know wacky tobacky grew up in Michigan.
You didn't really think ole Snake just took of one blade and flew with the
other two not opposed, did you? Anyhow, you guys constantly entertain me.
My bird is flying and I bought home-made floats from Canada, (Muktuk
pattern) so hope to be on water next summer.I'll send a pic to the digest.
Ed Gray, dallas, KFII 582 gsc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kitfox-List
Digest Server
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 1:59 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List Digest: 40 Msgs - 10/19/09
*
=================================================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
=================================================
Today's complete Kitfox-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the Kitfox-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter
09-10-19&Archive=Kitfox
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter
2009-10-19&Archive=Kitfox
===============================================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
===============================================
----------------------------------------------------------
Kitfox-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Mon 10/19/09: 40
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:16 AM - [OFF-TOPIC] Yesterday's flight (Michel Verheughe)
2. 02:49 AM - Re: jetting a 582 and a choped elbow (dave)
3. 04:46 AM - Re: Cruise Speeds model 5 (Southern Skies)
4. 05:10 AM - Re: jetting a 582 and a choped elbow (fox5flyer)
5. 05:41 AM - Re: What's your prop size/ prop clearance? (akflyer)
6. 05:43 AM - Re: Cruise Speeds model 5 (FlyboyTR)
7. 05:54 AM - Re: Cruise Speeds model 5 (FlyboyTR)
8. 06:00 AM - Re: jetting a 582 and a choped elbow (akflyer)
9. 06:16 AM - Re: Re: What's your prop size/ prop clearance? (Lynn
Matteson)
10. 06:45 AM - Duct tape (Pete Christensen)
11. 06:59 AM - Re: Re: jetting a 582 and a choped elbow (fox5flyer)
12. 07:25 AM - Re: Re: jetting a 582 and a choped elbow (Jim_and_Lucy
Chuk)
13. 07:47 AM - Re: Flaperon Rigging Problem (DanM)
14. 08:45 AM - Kitfox IV Blog and Video Clips
(kitfoxjunky@decisionlabs.com)
15. 08:56 AM - Re: [OFF-TOPIC] Yesterday's flight (Jose M. Toro)
16. 09:49 AM - Re: [OFF-TOPIC] Yesterday's flight (Patrick Reilly)
17. 09:51 AM - Re: Duct tape (akflyer)
18. 10:03 AM - Re: Cruise Speeds model 5 (n85ae)
19. 10:54 AM - Re: Cruise Speeds model 5 (FlyboyTR)
20. 11:11 AM - Re: Re: jetting a 582 and a choped elbow (Lynn Matteson)
21. 11:14 AM - Re: Re: Duct tape (Patrick Reilly)
22. 11:19 AM - Re: [OFF-TOPIC] Yesterday's flight (Marco Menezes)
23. 11:19 AM - Re: Cruise Speeds model 5 (n85ae)
24. 11:22 AM - gasoline proof glue (bob noffs)
25. 11:24 AM - Re: Cruise Speeds model 5 (FlyboyTR)
26. 11:45 AM - Re: Re: KF IV questions (Lowell Fitt)
27. 01:05 PM - Re: Cruise Speeds model 5 (n85ae)
28. 01:36 PM - Re: Ribs for tail feathers (Michael Logan)
29. 01:53 PM - Re: gasoline proof glue (Rexinator)
30. 04:44 PM - Re: Re: O200 engine in a Kitfox Super Sport S7 (Clint
Bazzill)
31. 04:52 PM -
=?Windows-1252?Q?ShortWingPipers.Org_-_View_topic_-_Great_Pacer_Pics_--?
=?Windows-1252?Q?--___For_Snake___NOT_KITFOX? (Larry Huntley)
32. 05:16 PM - Re: Re: jetting a 582 and a choped elbow (Patrick
Reilly)
33. 06:13 PM - Re: Re: jetting a 582 and a choped elbow (Marco Menezes)
34. 06:31 PM - Re: O200 engine in a Kitfox Super Sport S7 (Tommy
Walker)
35. 06:36 PM - Re: O200 engine in a Kitfox Super Sport S7 (Tommy
Walker)
36. 08:27 PM - Re: Re: O200 engine in a Kitfox Super Sport S7 (Weiss
Richard)
37. 09:06 PM - Re: Re: O200 engine in a Kitfox Super Sport S7 (Lynn
Matteson)
38. 09:20 PM - Re: Re: jetting a 582 and a choped elbow (Lynn Matteson)
39. 09:49 PM - Re: Re: jetting a 582 and a choped elbow (Lynn Matteson)
40. 09:50 PM - Re: Re: jetting a 582 and a choped elbow (Lynn Matteson)
________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
Time: 02:16:29 AM PST US
From: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
Subject: Kitfox-List: [OFF-TOPIC] Yesterday's flight
Just a few views from yesterday's flight with my son. We were testing out
different
video camera. Unfortunately the one I had didn't a good job at rendering
the fine autumn colours of the Norwegian nature. But ... here it is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQMi-Mz-RYs
PS: Bloody cold, filming with the door open at this time of the year! :-)
Cheers,
Michel Verheughe
Norway
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
Do not archive
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre>
________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
Time: 02:49:56 AM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: jetting a 582 and a choped elbow
From: "dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
5800 static is a bit low. This will contribute to the darker plugs BUT
how can
you have EGT 1250 and black plugs? Either EGT is messed up but on both
cylinder
that unlikely . Check your needles first and verify what notch the clips
are on and that you have the O rings on them. And also that the white
plastic
space it on TOP of the needle and clip.
I would set your static for 6000 to 6300 rpm to start with. What prop do
you
have ?
What plugs are you running ? Should be BR8ES and Solid tipped NOT alum
tipped.
and Gapped at .018 . IF you buy from Rotax they are pre gapped at 018 and
should last a 582 with oil injection 100 to 150 hours.
http://www.cfisher.com/152hournkg.html
http://www.cfisher.com/ngk/
Notice alum tip here worn flat ......http://www.cfisher.com/ngk/ngk.htm
Your 582 will likely need to have needles set for winter soon . Bottom
notch on
needles should be good if you have stock jetting.
I would not worry about a muffler mod unless you understand pipe tuning
well.
Skystars cut the Y pipe and Elbow to fit inside the cowl. You will have to
mod
the cowl if you lengthen the header part of the exhaust. ( header is the
first
part from ports to the start of the cone. You need to add 1.5 to 2.5 inches
but it will be challenging for you .
Take some pics of this carbon build up and send it or post it .
> To answer you both the max rpm is 5850 static and 6300 climbing and 6600
now
in colder air flying flat and level. there is lots of carbine built up in
the
manifold and jug just 3/8 of an inch from the piston all the way out and not
so
much a long taxi back to the hanger but carbon built up allot on the plugs
after
31 hrs on my last set and just as black after only6 hrs and one needle
adjustment
since my last plug change malcolm
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
http://www.cfisher.com/
Awesome *New Forum *
http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/
Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268493#268493
________________________________ Message 3
_____________________________________
Time: 04:46:23 AM PST US
From: Southern Skies <chris@southernskies.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Cruise Speeds model 5
Hello Listers,
I always read with great interest but seldom post. My question is regarding
Speeds.
My model 5 -taildragger, Franklin 116 HP,high compression mod, 2 blade 76
inch magnum Ivoprop ground adjustable cruises at 85 to 90 mph at 75% power.
At wide open I can manage 100 to 105 mph at 3000 MSL. Checked with GPS many
times.
Tried different pitch settings and it only changes rpms,not speeds.
I often read about other Kitfoxes going considerably faster.
Should I check the rigging? What part?
Or is this just a slow bird, period?
Love the short field performance-other pilots raise eyebrows about my 800
foot
strip that goes down (for take off) or up (landing) a hill,works fine for
me.
Chris Bowles
Model 5 Outback
________________________________ Message 4
_____________________________________
Time: 05:10:59 AM PST US
From: "fox5flyer" <fox5flyer@idealwifi.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: jetting a 582 and a choped elbow
Malcolm, even though there are different opinions out there, your
numbers aren't far enough off to explain the carbon buildup. One of the
big problems of the 582s is that they were supplied with idle jets that
were way to rich. On them you will find a number. Look very closely
with a magnifying glass then talk to Lockwood, or one of the suppliers
about getting a couple numbers leaner. They're a little bit pricey, but
will smooth out your idle considerably. Then again, now that cold
weather with denser air has arrived it may get better all by itself.
Also, you might also suspect your EGT gauge is reading a bit high.
Maybe you can borrow a spare to double check it.
Also, as I recall, Barstow does have a fairly long taxi back which would
also contribute.
One little trick is to take some tools with you, fly to a seldom used
grass strip somewhere and when you have the runway made, shut the engine
off on short final, stop and make a plug reading without any taxiing.
See if you still have black plugs. Ensure you fly long enough to burn
off the soot that is already on them. Better yet, start off with clean
plugs.
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 438+ TT
"If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara
Desert, in five years there'd be a shortage of sand."
-- Nobel prize-winning economist Milton Friedman (1912-2006)
----- Original Message -----
From: Malcolm Brubaker
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 12:32 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: jetting a 582 and a choped elbow
To answer you both the max rpm is 5850 static and 6300 climbing
and 6600 now in colder air flying flat and level. there is lots of
carbine built up in the manifold and jug just 3/8 of an inch from the
piston all the way out and not so much a long taxi back to the hanger
but carbon built up allot on the plugs after 31 hrs on my last set and
just as black after only6 hrs and one needle adjustment since my last
plug change malcolm
--- On Sun, 10/18/09, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net> wrote:
From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: jetting a 582 and a choped elbow
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Date: Sunday, October 18, 2009, 11:49 PM
<lynnmatt@jps.net>
I may have overlooked it, but has anyone confirmed how these
"black plug readings" were obtained? Was it after a lengthy taxi back to
the hangar...if so, shame on the mechanic.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 800.0 hrs
Countdown to 1000 hrs--200 to go
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: flying
do not archive
On Oct 18, 2009, at 6:22 PM, akflyer wrote:
<akflyer_2000@yahoo.com>
>
> No you dont need to move the EGT probe when the elbow was
chopped. The EGT probe gets installed at X distance from the face of
the piston.
>
> If the plugs are black, and the EGTS are high then I would
think of the pitch on the prop. What is the MAX RPM you can turn on the
ground and in the air?
>
> --------
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
> Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
> Soldotna AK
> Avid "C" / Mk IV
> 582 IVO IFA
> Full Lotus 1450
> #1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
>
> hander outer of humorless darwin awards
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic..php?p=268448#268448
>
>
>
>
>
nbsp;--> http://= - List Contribution
-Matt Dralle, Listm/contribution"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution=====
====
________________________________ Message 5
_____________________________________
Time: 05:41:42 AM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: What's your prop size/ prop clearance?
From: "akflyer" <akflyer_2000@yahoo.com>
Lynn Matteson wrote:
> Lenny, am I to understand that you removed one blade from a three-
> bladed prop? And then ran the engine with 2 blades? WAAAAY out-of-
> balance? That's what it sounds like to me. Or is this a prop that
> allows you to do this. Admittedly I'm out of my league when it comes
> to other than a fixed-pitch prop, but this sounds like a recipe for
> engine shake, rattle and roll. : )
> (Bill Haley, are you listening?)
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 800.0 hrs
> Countdown to 1000 hrs--200 to go
> Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
> Electroair direct-fire ignition system
> Rotec TBI-40 injection
> Status: flying
>
I can see where you may be confused by my statement. With the IVO prop, you
can
pull one blade, insert the blade blocks and re-configure to a two blade,
properly
opposed and balanced. I will do some pretty dumb sh!t but I am not dumb
enough to try whacking a blade off a normal 3 blade and then try to fly on
just
two. I can do some drinking, but your not gonna ever see me drunk enough to
put quarters in for that ride!
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1450
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
hander outer of humorless darwin awards
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268508#268508
________________________________ Message 6
_____________________________________
Time: 05:43:20 AM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Cruise Speeds model 5
From: "FlyboyTR" <flyboytr@bellsouth.net>
Chris,
I fly a Vixen (Series 5 nosedragger). My power is a Continental IO-240
swinging
a 68" Prince Prop. Full throttle, straight and level at 1,500'MSL, will
nail
VNE at 140 MPH indicated. My high end cruise, 6,000' MSL and 2550 RPM give
me a TAS of 125. My typical cruise is turning 2,300 PRM at 112-115 MPH TAS.
I have wheel pants on all three wheels, streamline lift struts, jury struts
and
horizontal stabilizer lift struts. I do not have the typical large hose
from
the crank case breather hanging out the bottom. It is internal and anything
that drips, drips directly onto the exhaust pipe just before it exits the
cowling
(similar to some of the RV's). The exhaust tip is cut at an angle that
matches
the cowling and only extends below the cowling about 1/2 to 1". I had about
1/4" gaps between the wing and fuselage. Closing those in ( rubber
weatherstripping)
gave me about 1-2 MPH on the top end. I have the lift strut to wing
speed cuffs that I haven't installed yet. I may also want to consider the
gas cap fairing...but really haven't read anything about that mods potential
improvement. Also thinking about a gap seal between the elevator and
stabilizer...don't
know. [Question]
My hanger is open on two sides and the plane is subject to getting covered
with
dust, pollen, etc. Mix that with a little blowing drizzle and the planes
finish
can get real nasty. Strange thing is...the plane is 1-2 MPH faster when
it's
real dirty. ...not sure if it's just trying to get away from itself...or
if it has something to do with laminar airflow over the surface. [Shocked]
Anyway...your speeds to sound a little slow for 116 HP and adjustable prop.
However...and
everything being said...it is not a fast airplane and I think I am
fortunate to get the speeds I'm getting. Yesterday I was parked next to a
friends
new Jabiru (the large one with the back seats removed). Man...that thing
is slick, clean and I'm sure much faster...sort of made my Vixen look like a
wheelbarrow! [Embarassed] However, I love my wheelbarrow. It's strong,
it's
agile and dependable. [Laughing]
Can you tell us more about your plane (struts, cowling, exposed exhaust,
spinner,
wheel pants, etc?
Travis :D
--------
Travis Rayner
Mobile, AL
Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop
ADI-II Autopilot
AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268509#268509
________________________________ Message 7
_____________________________________
Time: 05:54:08 AM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Cruise Speeds model 5
From: "FlyboyTR" <flyboytr@bellsouth.net>
Chris...
Another thought...
You said that your speed does not change with different pitch settings, only
the
RPM. I'm having a hard time getting my arms around that one...odd??? I
also
have a Prince Prop that is slightly underpropped for my engine. With that
prop
I can launch like an ultralight, climb like crazy, etc. The problem is...I
can easily run past redline on the engine, even in a slight climb. With
this
prop...my top end is (with limiting the engine to redline, 2,800 RPM) is
only
about 115. Cruise is WAY down.
You should be seeing a change in your speed envelope with changes in prop
pitch
and engine RPM. It is possible to dial in too much pitch (no speed gains
there).
Again... more details would probably help.
Travis :D
--------
Travis Rayner
Mobile, AL
Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop
ADI-II Autopilot
AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268510#268510
________________________________ Message 8
_____________________________________
Time: 06:00:34 AM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: jetting a 582 and a choped elbow
From: "akflyer" <akflyer_2000@yahoo.com>
The best plug reading you can get is to warm the plane up on the old plugs,
shut
down, put in new plugs, start up, firewall it and climb to altitude WOT then
shut the mags off and glide in. This will give you the truest plug reading
you
can get.
An alternative would be to tie the plane down and put in new plugs, firewall
it
for a minute or two then shut down and read the plugs.
One issue with premix.. you are always at 50:1. With a pump, you are closer
to
100:1 at idle. The oil you are burning plays a HUGE part in the carbon
build
up. Some oils burn much much cleaner than others.
I would lean towards faulty EGT readings. If you only turn 5800 static, and
maybe
6300 in the air, you are loading the engine too much and your EGT's should
be closer to 950 - 1000 at that loading. I am thinking you are running way
fat
and shooting way too much unburned (or still burning) fuel out the exhaust
giving elevated EGT's. This was a demon we chased on my brothers KF when
we
swapped to the "winter" jets. EGTs went way up and it was damn near
impossible
to keep them under 1200 even with the IFA prop and loading the engine way
down.
I think he called CPS and talk to Mike who explained the high EGT if your
way to rich thing to him. Dropped back down from 175 to 170 mains and the
issue
went away.
I run 165 in the summer and 170 in the winter, no matter how cold it gets
and the
plugs and EGT's stay perfect.
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1450
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
hander outer of humorless darwin awards
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268512#268512
________________________________ Message 9
_____________________________________
Time: 06:16:00 AM PST US
From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: What's your prop size/ prop clearance?
WHEW...THAT'S a relief! For a while there I thought we were gonna
have to start taking nominations for a new "hander outer of humorless
darwin awards" in case you went over the edge and did something
REALLY dumb. : )
*That* kind of ride might even be in the silver dollar category.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 800.0 hrs
Countdown to 1000 hrs--200 to go
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: flying
do not archive
On Oct 19, 2009, at 8:39 AM, akflyer wrote:
>
>
> Lynn Matteson wrote:
>> Lenny, am I to understand that you removed one blade from a three-
>> bladed prop? And then ran the engine with 2 blades? WAAAAY out-of-
>> balance? That's what it sounds like to me. Or is this a prop that
>> allows you to do this. Admittedly I'm out of my league when it comes
>> to other than a fixed-pitch prop, but this sounds like a recipe for
>> engine shake, rattle and roll. : )
>> (Bill Haley, are you listening?)
>>
>> Lynn Matteson
>> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
>> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 800.0 hrs
>> Countdown to 1000 hrs--200 to go
>> Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
>> Electroair direct-fire ignition system
>> Rotec TBI-40 injection
>> Status: flying
>>
>
>
> I can see where you may be confused by my statement. With the IVO
> prop, you can pull one blade, insert the blade blocks and re-
> configure to a two blade, properly opposed and balanced. I will do
> some pretty dumb sh!t but I am not dumb enough to try whacking a
> blade off a normal 3 blade and then try to fly on just two. I can
> do some drinking, but your not gonna ever see me drunk enough to
> put quarters in for that ride!
>
> --------
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
> Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
> Soldotna AK
> Avid "C" / Mk IV
> 582 IVO IFA
> Full Lotus 1450
> #1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
>
> hander outer of humorless darwin awards
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268508#268508
>
>
________________________________ Message 10
____________________________________
Time: 06:45:19 AM PST US
From: "Pete Christensen" <pchristensen10@austin.rr.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Duct tape
Who says you cant cover a plane in duct tape?
http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/cub_bear_man_pictures_alaska_201323-1.h
tml#gallery
________________________________ Message 11
____________________________________
Time: 06:59:39 AM PST US
From: "fox5flyer" <fox5flyer@idealwifi.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: jetting a 582 and a choped elbow
Agreed. The plug reading is the final proof of engine performance. When I
raced desert bikes (previous life) we would run them hard for about 10-20
minutes, then make an immediate shut down to make a plug check. Most
accurate for actual conditions. I suggested this several years ago to the
list and got some flack about the dangers of doing it, blah blah, etc. and I
don't think it was taken seriously by most. However, I still see no great
risk why one couldn't practice a real world engine out by shutting down on
downwind with a good long runway, have your tools ready, pull over off to
the side and do a quick check. Of course, it's best to announce intentions,
wear goggles, hearing protection, inform fire department... :-)
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 438+ TT
"If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara
Desert, in five years there'd be a shortage of sand."
-- Nobel prize-winning economist Milton Friedman (1912-2006)
>
> The best plug reading you can get is to warm the plane up on the old
> plugs, shut down, put in new plugs, start up, firewall it and climb to
> altitude WOT then shut the mags off and glide in. This will give you the
> truest plug reading you can get.
________________________________ Message 12
____________________________________
Time: 07:25:16 AM PST US
From: Jim_and_Lucy Chuk <thesupe@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: jetting a 582 and a choped elbow
When I bought my first Avid B=2C it had a 532. Guy that had it had never f
lown it and didn't really know anything about the plane. They had the redl
ine on the EGT at 1300 or 1350 and I thought that was odd=2C but figured I
would sort that out later. After I started to fly the plane (after new sea
ls in the engine ect) EGT temps were always wanting to go over 1250 in crui
se or climb. I did everything I could think of to lower them=2C even chang
ed the 532 to a just gone through 582=2C larger jets=2C more pitch in the
prop=2C sent 2 different EGT gauges to Westak to be recalabrated=2C differe
nt probes=2C and the temps still were high=2C and the plugs were BLACK. Th
ere was no question that I was running to rich=2C but the EGT temps said ot
herwise. Eventually I bought the Avid MK IV=2C it had a a 582 in it also
=2C no problems with keeping temps in line with standard jetting. Later I
changed the 582 to a Jabiru engine. Got to thinking about things and so I
put the muffler from the MK IV on to the B=2C immediatly the EGT temps show
ed lower on the gauge and from then on I could fly with standard jetting a
nd EGT temps showed what they should be (1050-1150). I used the same Y pip
e in both instances so the probe location didn't change=2C and there was no
thing I could see different in the two different mufflers. No damage visab
le or other than factory welding on the first muffler. No doubt in my mind
that the muffler was causing a higher reading of the EGTs. I know that do
esn't make sence=2C and this is the second time I wrote the message=2C the
first time I deleted it without sending=2C because it doesn't really make s
ence to have a higher than actual temp reading=2C but I saw it for myself.
At that time I had flown about 200 hrs with 2 stroke engines and did all t
he maintainence on them myself=2C so I wasn't a complete newbee at it eithe
r. Take care=2C Jim Chuk Avids=2C Kitfox 4 Mn.
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: jetting a 582 and a choped elbow
> From: dave@cfisher.com
> Date: Mon=2C 19 Oct 2009 02:47:37 -0700
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>
>
> 5800 static is a bit low. This will contribute to the darker plugs BUT ho
w can you have EGT 1250 and black plugs? Either EGT is messed up but on bot
h cylinder that unlikely . Check your needles first and verify what notch t
he clips are on and that you have the O rings on them. And also that the wh
ite plastic space it on TOP of the needle and clip.
>
> I would set your static for 6000 to 6300 rpm to start with. What prop do
you have ?
> What plugs are you running ? Should be BR8ES and Solid tipped NOT alum ti
pped. and Gapped at .018 . IF you buy from Rotax they are pre gapped at 018
and should last a 582 with oil injection 100 to 150 hours.
>
> http://www.cfisher.com/152hournkg.html
>
> http://www.cfisher.com/ngk/
>
> Notice alum tip here worn flat ......http://www.cfisher.com/ngk/ngk.htm
>
> Your 582 will likely need to have needles set for winter soon . Bottom no
tch on needles should be good if you have stock jetting.
>
> I would not worry about a muffler mod unless you understand pipe tuning w
ell. Skystars cut the Y pipe and Elbow to fit inside the cowl. You will hav
e to mod the cowl if you lengthen the header part of the exhaust. ( header
is the first part from ports to the start of the cone. You need to add 1.5
to 2.5 inches but it will be challenging for you .
>
>
>
>
> Take some pics of this carbon build up and send it or post it .
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > To answer you both the max rpm is 5850 static and 6300 climbing and 660
0 now in colder air flying flat and level. there is lots of carbine built u
p in the manifold and jug just 3/8 of an inch from the piston all the way o
ut and not so much a long taxi back to the hanger but carbon built up allot
on the plugs after 31 hrs on my last set and just as black after only6 hrs
and one needle adjustment since my last plug change malcolm
>
>
> --------
> Rotax Dealer=2C Ontario Canada
> http://www.cfisher.com/
> Awesome *New Forum *
> http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/
> Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
> http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268493#268493
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.
________________________________ Message 13
____________________________________
Time: 07:47:59 AM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Flaperon Rigging Problem
From: "DanM" <danm@powerdesignelectric.com>
Thanks Tom, back to the airport on Saturday to try again. I guess the sheet
spec's
that specify 19 to 20 degrees is a mistake???? Oh yea I have a digital smart
level also.
--------
Dan Mc Intyre
Kitfox IV , Ready for 1st Flight
Jabiru 2200 , 2.0 hours
Sensenich 62x46
N443DM
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268533#268533
________________________________ Message 14
____________________________________
Time: 08:45:42 AM PST US
From: kitfoxjunky@decisionlabs.com
Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox IV Blog and Video Clips
Been away from the group for a bit. I have some new adventures for 2009
logged on my Kitfox Blog. Have a look if you want to see what I have been
up to with my Model IV on Aerocet anphibs.
http://www.dlitools.com/kitfox
There are several new videos on Youtube as well. Just search Kitfoxjunky.
Hope everyone had a great season of flying.
www.Gary Walsh
KF IV Anphib 912S
C-GOOT
www.decisionlabs.com/kitfox
do not archive
________________________________ Message 15
____________________________________
Time: 08:56:59 AM PST US
From: "Jose M. Toro" <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: [OFF-TOPIC] Yesterday's flight
Michel:=0A=0AThe videos and pictures you periodically post are already an i
mportant and-waited benefit of this forum.- Thanks!!!=0A=0ASaludos!=0A
=0AJos=E9=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Michel Ver
heughe <michel@online.no>=0ATo: kitfox-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Mon, Octo
ber 19, 2009 5:13:47 AM=0ASubject: Kitfox-List: [OFF-TOPIC] Yesterday's fli
ght=0A=0AJust a few views from yesterday's flight with my son. We were test
ing out different video camera. Unfortunately the one I had didn't a good j
ob at rendering the fine autumn colours of the Norwegian nature. But ... he
re it is:=0A=0Ahttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQMi-Mz-RYs=0A=0APS: Bloody
cold, filming with the door open at this time of the year! :-)=0A=0ACheers
,=0AMichel Verheughe=0ANorway=0AKitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200=0A=0ADo not archive
=0A=0A<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier"
.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List<
-> <a href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.c
===================0A=0A</b></font></pr
e>=0A=0A=0A
________________________________ Message 16
____________________________________
Time: 09:49:06 AM PST US
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: [OFF-TOPIC] Yesterday's flight
From: Patrick Reilly <patreilly43@gmail.com>
Michel, Your right. Colors weren't shown well, but still a great video. You
r
editing is superb.
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford, IL
On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 10:34 AM, Jose M. Toro <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>wrote
:
> Michel:
>
> The videos and pictures you periodically post are already an important
> and waited benefit of this forum. Thanks!!!
>
> Saludos!
>
> Jos=E9
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
> *To:* kitfox-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Mon, October 19, 2009 5:13:47 AM
> *Subject:* Kitfox-List: [OFF-TOPIC] Yesterday's flight
>
> Just a few views from yesterday's flight with my son. We were testing out
> different video camera. Unfortunately the one I had didn't a good job at
> rendering the fine autumn colours of the Norwegian nature. But ... here i
t
> is:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQMi-Mz-RYs
>
> PS: Bloody cold, filming with the door open at this time of the year! :-)
>
> Cheers,
> Michel Verheughe
> Norway
> Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
>
> Do not archive
>
> <pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier List">
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List</a>
> _href="http://forums.matronics.com">htt=
>
> </b></font></pre> <http://forums.matronics.com/>
>
> *
>
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> *
>
>
________________________________ Message 17
____________________________________
Time: 09:51:50 AM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Duct tape
From: "akflyer" <akflyer_2000@yahoo.com>
I have seen this more than once.. wings covered in tents and duct tape etc.
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1450
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
hander outer of humorless darwin awards
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268554#268554
________________________________ Message 18
____________________________________
Time: 10:03:01 AM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Cruise Speeds model 5
From: "n85ae" <n85ae@yahoo.com>
Series 5 with IO-240B, 74" dia. Sensenich, faired lift struts, no wheel
pants,
I get 120-125 mph cruise at 2200 rpm, and can exceed 140 at full throttle
at 2800 rpm.
Three different variations of Sensenich tried, and with the exception of
climb performance cruise has been the same with all. 70, 72, and 74
diameter props tried. 74" gives best takeoff acceleration, and climb.
8.50x6 and 6.00x6 tires same thing, can't tell any difference in cruise.
Light Bar between float attach points, with 6" diameter flood lights
attached, same thing, no difference.
Jeff Hays
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268557#268557
________________________________ Message 19
____________________________________
Time: 10:54:36 AM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Cruise Speeds model 5
From: "FlyboyTR" <flyboytr@bellsouth.net>
Jeff,
EXCELLENT numbers! Wish I was getting that kind of cruise at 2200! ...I
though
mine was pretty good...but...not any more. [Crying or Very sad]
Travis :)
--------
Travis Rayner
Mobile, AL
Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop
ADI-II Autopilot
AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268569#268569
________________________________ Message 20
____________________________________
Time: 11:11:21 AM PST US
From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: jetting a 582 and a choped elbow
I've been keeping this little incident a secret up until now, but
can't keep my mouth shut any longer. While this doesn't come under
the heading of practice, it was a real world situation.
I needed 2 hours of flight a couple of weeks ago, so I could change
my oil at my chosen time of 25 hours. I checked the fuel....8 gallons
exactly...enough for a conservative 2 hour flight at my recent
3.0--3.8 gph. I took off and headed north, thinking of doing a half-
hour in each of four directions, and being near home when the 2 hours
were up. It was great flying weather, and it was mostly hands off
flying. I kept checking my Northstar fuel flow gauge for remaining
fuel and also checking the sight gauges in the wings...plenty of fuel
according to the sight gauges, and adequate, according to the
Northstar gauge. Getting near the end of my time allotment, I saw
B25, an airport just into Indiana from the Michigan state line. I
was curious about this airport, so I circled the field a couple of
times trying to see if there was a building large enough for a B-25
plane, or if one was sitting outside. Seeing nothing along those
lines, I figured I'd better head for home, and turned toward the
northeast. I had flown in this direction for about 3 minutes, still
looking outside and taking in the sights, when I caught sight of my
low fuel warning light which was brightly lit. My clear vent line up
to the right-hand fuel tank was empty, so I knew I was in deep do-do.
I hit the NRST button on my GPS and saw Williams County (0G6) as the
closest airport. This airport is just east of Bryan, Ohio, and 13
miles away from my (then) present location. The engine was still
running, and I was at about 4,000 feet MSL. I pointed it in that
direction, and hoped for the best, all the while looking for a place
to land. I had covered about 7 miles when the engine stopped. I had
tried to position the plane to allow the fuel to get to the port, but
also hoping to make the airport, which meant "quit screwing around
with the fuel and streamline the plane for best glide". Now I
*really* started to look for fields. I could tell that I didn't want
to try to stretch the glide, because this would put
me...possibly...right over Bryan, Ohio, and that was not appealing at
all. I'd covered maybe another mile when I saw a long green stretch
of land between all the brown fields of beans growing in the area. I
said to my self that this was gonna become an airport in the next few
minutes, and started to slip down toward it. The wind was from about
220 and this strip of green was running 9-27. I was north of it, and
I didn't want to try landing into the wind because that would have
eaten up too much altitude. So here I was slipping it down to the
west end of this "soon-to-become airport" at a pretty good clip, and
finally had to straighten it out and put it down. When it finally
touched down, I was going pretty damn fast, and got all over the
brakes and it pulled to the right and headed for the beans. I got
that straightened out and kept braking hard, with the nose of the
plane getting too damn close to the ground...I'd never had the tail
that high before on the ground, and I was pretty sure that I'd have
to turn it into the beans to arrest the speed if I got much closer to
the road which was coming up fast. Man, stuff was going by fast and
the road was getting bigger, when it finally slowed enough to drop
the tail. When I got out and looked around, I saw a plywood sign in
the shape of an airplane, a wind sock, and a long building that
looked like a series of hangars. I had landed at an real-life
airport, complete with porta-potty and way too-long (thank God )
grass. (I later found out that this is called "Al's Place", by the
locals) There was nobody at this airport, but I made a call and a
nice man from 0G6 came out with fuel....he knew exactly where I had
landed. I'll quit the story there because that was the important
part...the landing and getting the fuel so I could continue home.
All this is to point out that what Deke mentioned is true....it is
( in my opinion) excellent practice to do what he said, although try
to do it when you already have the airport in sight, and try to do it
into a headwind, not with a tailwind like I was forced to do. I also
didn't have my goggles nor any hearing protection, which would have
been nice to block out the screams coming from the cabin.
By the way, what got me messed up was relying on the sight gauges
more than the Northstar gauge. The fuel splashes up into those sight
gauges, giving a false sense of more fuel than is actually there. And
I had set the "GAS" reading on the Northstar to read 24 gallons when
I had filled it the last time, not taking into account the unusable
fuel. When I was circling over B25, I had the right wing up, and this
was forcing the right tank to empty, and the left tank to unport.
When I leveled off and headed for home, the right tank was empty, and
the left tank was taking its own sweet time to re-supply the header
tank with fuel, if indeed it had any to offer.
I've since then only entered 20 gallons into the Northstar under
"GAS" after a fill-up, and only trust the sight gauges when the plane
is rock steady.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 800.0 hrs
Countdown to 1000 hrs--200 to go
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: flying (and learning)
do not archive
On Oct 19, 2009, at 9:56 AM, fox5flyer wrote:
> However, I still see no great risk why one couldn't practice a real
> world engine out by shutting down on downwind with a good long
> runway, have your tools ready, pull over off to the side and do a
> quick check. Of course, it's best to announce intentions, wear
> goggles, hearing protection, inform fire department... :-)
> Deke
________________________________ Message 21
____________________________________
Time: 11:14:40 AM PST US
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Duct tape
From: Patrick Reilly <patreilly43@gmail.com>
What the Hell tore that plane up, a bear?
Pat Reilly
On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 11:48 AM, akflyer <akflyer_2000@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I have seen this more than once.. wings covered in tents and duct tape
etc.
>
> --------
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
> Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
> Soldotna AK
> Avid "C" / Mk IV
> 582 IVO IFA
> Full Lotus 1450
> #1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
>
> hander outer of humorless darwin awards
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268554#268554
>
>
________________________________ Message 22
____________________________________
Time: 11:19:38 AM PST US
From: Marco Menezes <msm_9949@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: [OFF-TOPIC] Yesterday's flight
Thanks for that Michel. Looks like you've got mostly evergreens and Aspen i
n your part of Norway. In Northern Michigan we have alot of Maples that len
d the Autumn woods much more red color than what you appear to have.
-
Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-box 3:1 w/clutch
-
do not archive
--- On Mon, 10/19/09, Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no> wrote:
From: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
Subject: Kitfox-List: [OFF-TOPIC] Yesterday's flight
Just a few views from yesterday's flight with my son. We were testing out d
ifferent video camera. Unfortunately the one I had didn't a good job at ren
dering the fine autumn colours of the Norwegian nature. But ... here it is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQMi-Mz-RYs
PS: Bloody cold, filming with the door open at this time of the year! :-)
Cheers,
Michel Verheughe
Norway
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
Do not archive
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List</a>
ronics.com</a>
le, List Admin.
www.matronics.com/contribution</a>
</b></font></pre>=0A=0A=0A
________________________________ Message 23
____________________________________
Time: 11:19:46 AM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Cruise Speeds model 5
From: "n85ae" <n85ae@yahoo.com>
Oops, mistake.
Correction, actually 2200 rpm, is more like around 105, which is my normal
setting for not being in a hurry.
2400 rpm is my 120 cruise setting.
A lot of the time I throttle back to 17-1800 just for puttering aroung
Jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268577#268577
________________________________ Message 24
____________________________________
Time: 11:22:06 AM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: gasoline proof glue
From: bob noffs <icubob@gmail.com>
can anyone recommend a gasoline proof glue to repair a small part of a carb
body constantly immersed in gasoline? for my atv, not my airplane! the
alternative is a $400 carb.
thanks for any input.
bob noffs
________________________________ Message 25
____________________________________
Time: 11:24:08 AM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Cruise Speeds model 5
From: "FlyboyTR" <flyboytr@bellsouth.net>
Still good cruise numbers for 2,400! :D
--------
Travis Rayner
Mobile, AL
Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop
ADI-II Autopilot
AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268579#268579
________________________________ Message 26
____________________________________
Time: 11:45:44 AM PST US
From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: KF IV questions
Mark,
I don't know what the original reason for those tabs being placed there, but
I used them to secure the fuel line as it came from the wing tank to the
header tank. I drilled a hole, looped a nylon tie wrap down through the
hole with a cotter pin through the loop and then around the fuel line.
Other wise, no clue.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Napier (napierm)" <napierm@cisco.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 7:57 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: KF IV questions
> <napierm@cisco.com>
>
> Hey Tom,
>
> Thanks for the reply.
>
> I do see the purpose of the large horizontal tab in between the two
> vertical mounting tabs for the turtle deck. But there are also three
> more small horizontal tabs forward of that position that are on the
> upper tube that angles down behind the rear wing mount. They look like
> you could mount a shelf or something there but that would block the view
> through the turtle deck. They're also look too low to be part of the
> turtle deck mounting unless an angle or something is mounted there.
>
> Thanks again,
>
> Mark Napier
>
>
> Time: 01:05:54 PM PST US
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: KF IV questions
> From: "Tom Jones" <nahsikhs@elltel.net>
>
>
>> 1st: I notice the mounting tabs for the cowling and turtle-deck are
> much
>> smaller than the ones on my KF III and the 1/4 turn fasters that I
> have
>> won't fit. What hardware is used here? I intend to essentially scratch
>> make the finishing kit.
>
>
> Mark,
> These fasteners are Duez studs.
> Winged 2600-3W on the turtle deck. 2600-8W flaperon horn bearing.
> 2600-4W top
> cowls.
>
> Phillips head 26S8-3 for the bottom rear cowl and 26S8-4 bottom front
> cowel.
>
> Receptacles are all 212-12N.
> Lock washers are all 2600-LW
>
>
>> 2nd: I see a few small horizontal tabs on each side on the upper tube
>> just aft of the wing in the turtle-deck area. What are these used for?
>
>>
>
>
> These tabs are where you mount a short piece of piano hinge to attach
> the lower
> half of the flaperon horn bearing material.
>
> --------
> Tom Jones
> Classic IV
> 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
> Ellensburg, WA
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 27
____________________________________
Time: 01:05:06 PM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Cruise Speeds model 5
From: "n85ae" <n85ae@yahoo.com>
Just a thought, but I think it might be relevant. I added 12 lb's ballast to
the
tail behind the battery in order to get a more favorable cg. If you're nose
heavy and compensating with trim, or tail incidence, that may be creating
drag.
I made my own lift strut fairings based on some symmetric airfoil data
from the UIUC airfoil database, and cut foam cores, and layed up glass
over the cores. I'm not saying they are the best out there, but I think the
foils I'm using are pretty good, and the lift struts are a big drag
contributor.
I honestly like the plane at slower speeds, so I rarely use power above
2200 rpm level in any case. It just get's too much of the runaway
freight train feeling when going 120+. 100 is a nice speed for the plane.
Also I have a taildragger, so I don't have all the nose strut drag.
Regards,
Jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268593#268593
________________________________ Message 28
____________________________________
Time: 01:36:54 PM PST US
From: "Michael Logan" <michael.logan1@verizon.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Ribs for tail feathers
The 5mm works well. Make them lighter by cutting lightening holes in them.
You will be surprised how much of a difference that makes.
Mike
Series 5
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Napier
(napierm)
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 8:01 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Ribs for tail feathers
<napierm@cisco.com>
Does anyone have the thickness of the various ribs used in the vertical
stab/rudder and horizontal stab/elevator for the classic IV with the
large elevator/rudder and the speedster type fairings? I'm drawing up a
set I think will work but the 5mm that the building guide mentions seems
too heavy esp. for the rudder and elevator.
Any good pictures of the same?
Thanks in advance,
Mark Napier
________________________________ Message 29
____________________________________
Time: 01:53:33 PM PST US
From: Rexinator <rexinator@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: gasoline proof glue
Seems like a job for J-B Weld. Check here:
http://jbweld.net/products/uses.php
Rexinator
Colorado M-2/582
bob noffs wrote:
> can anyone recommend a gasoline proof glue to repair a small part of a
> carb body constantly immersed in gasoline? for my atv, not my
> airplane! the alternative is a $400 carb.
> thanks for any input.
> bob noffs
________________________________ Message 30
____________________________________
Time: 04:44:35 PM PST US
From: Clint Bazzill <clint_bazzill@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: O200 engine in a Kitfox Super Sport S7
Wouldn't you want to save over a hundred pounds=2C fly faster=2C have bette
r prop options=2C then use Rotax 912ULS.
By the way=2C when was the last car you have seen with air cooled engine.
Liquid cooling=2C is cool and no problem with millions of vehicles on hiway
etc.
Clint
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: O200 engine in a Kitfox Super Sport S7
> From: gbsb2002@yahoo.com
> Date: Sun=2C 18 Oct 2009 10:57:29 -0700
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>
>
> Hi the Cont. 0-200 would make an excellent powerplant in a Kitfox 5 and u
p=2C the great thing about the 0-200 is no liquid cooling Dual ignition=2C
an engine designed for aircraft not a auto engine.
> While a Champ is a good airplane but the Kitfox is also a great airplane
so it just depends on the type of flying one wants to do. one of the big ad
vantages of the Kitfox is maintenance and the ability make modifications mu
ch easier than on a certifed aircraft.
>
> --------
> GB
> MNFlyer
> Flying a HKS Kitfox III
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268424#268424
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
==========
==========
==========
==========
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 31
____________________________________
Time: 04:52:06 PM PST US
From: "Larry Huntley" <asq@roadrunner.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List:
=?Windows-1252?Q?ShortWingPipers.Org_-_View_topic_-_Great_Pacer_Pics_--?
=?Windows-1252?Q?--___For_Snake___NOT_KITFOX?
Snake,
Thought you might like to see this while the fellow was still alive.
Obviously must be dead by now. LOL Larry
http://www.shortwingpipers.org/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?p=9083
________________________________ Message 32
____________________________________
Time: 05:16:58 PM PST US
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: jetting a 582 and a choped elbow
From: Patrick Reilly <patreilly43@gmail.com>
Lynn, Thanks for the insite. I have made a habit in the C150 I am taking
lessons in to make a point of, not having "enough " gas for the mission,
but, having enough gas to return with a minimum of 10 gallons still on
board. That was after another club member alerted that I had left the plane
with only 2 gals of gas in it. It has 3 galllons unuseable fuel!
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford, IL
On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 1:02 PM, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net> wrote:
>
> I've been keeping this little incident a secret up until now, but can't
> keep my mouth shut any longer. While this doesn't come under the heading
of
> practice, it was a real world situation.
>
> I needed 2 hours of flight a couple of weeks ago, so I could change my oi
l
> at my chosen time of 25 hours. I checked the fuel....8 gallons
> exactly...enough for a conservative 2 hour flight at my recent 3.0--3.8 g
ph.
> I took off and headed north, thinking of doing a half-hour in each of fou
r
> directions, and being near home when the 2 hours were up. It was great
> flying weather, and it was mostly hands off flying. I kept checking my
> Northstar fuel flow gauge for remaining fuel and also checking the sight
> gauges in the wings...plenty of fuel according to the sight gauges, and
> adequate, according to the Northstar gauge. Getting near the end of my ti
me
> allotment, I saw B25, an airport just into Indiana from the Michigan sta
te
> line. I was curious about this airport, so I circled the field a couple o
f
> times trying to see if there was a building large enough for a B-25 plane
,
> or if one was sitting outside. Seeing nothing along those lines, I figure
d
> I'd better head for home, and turned toward the northeast. I had flown in
> this direction for about 3 minutes, still looking outside and taking in t
he
> sights, when I caught sight of my low fuel warning light which was bright
ly
> lit. My clear vent line up to the right-hand fuel tank was empty, so I kn
ew
> I was in deep do-do. I hit the NRST button on my GPS and saw Williams Cou
nty
> (0G6) as the closest airport. This airport is just east of Bryan, Ohio, a
nd
> 13 miles away from my (then) present location. The engine was still runni
ng,
> and I was at about 4,000 feet MSL. I pointed it in that direction, and ho
ped
> for the best, all the while looking for a place to land. I had covered ab
out
> 7 miles when the engine stopped. I had tried to position the plane to all
ow
> the fuel to get to the port, but also hoping to make the airport, which
> meant "quit screwing around with the fuel and streamline the plane for be
st
> glide". Now I *really* started to look for fields. I could tell that I
> didn't want to try to stretch the glide, because this would put
> me...possibly...right over Bryan, Ohio, and that was not appealing at all
..
> I'd covered maybe another mile when I saw a long green stretch of land
> between all the brown fields of beans growing in the area. I said to my s
elf
> that this was gonna become an airport in the next few minutes, and starte
d
> to slip down toward it. The wind was from about 220=B0 and this strip of
green
> was running 9-27. I was north of it, and I didn't want to try landing int
o
> the wind because that would have eaten up too much altitude. So here I wa
s
> slipping it down to the west end of this "soon-to-become airport" at a
> pretty good clip, and finally had to straighten it out and put it down. W
hen
> it finally touched down, I was going pretty damn fast, and got all over t
he
> brakes and it pulled to the right and headed for the beans. I got that
> straightened out and kept braking hard, with the nose of the plane gettin
g
> too damn close to the ground...I'd never had the tail that high before on
> the ground, and I was pretty sure that I'd have to turn it into the beans
to
> arrest the speed if I got much closer to the road which was coming up fas
t.
> Man, stuff was going by fast and the road was getting bigger, when it
> finally slowed enough to drop the tail. When I got out and looked around,
I
> saw a plywood sign in the shape of an airplane, a wind sock, and a long
> building that looked like a series of hangars. I had landed at an real-li
fe
> airport, complete with porta-potty and way too-long (thank God ) grass. (
I
> later found out that this is called "Al's Place", by the locals) There wa
s
> nobody at this airport, but I made a call and a nice man from 0G6 came ou
t
> with fuel....he knew exactly where I had landed. I'll quit the story ther
e
> because that was the important part...the landing and getting the fuel so
I
> could continue home.
>
> All this is to point out that what Deke mentioned is true....it is ( in m
y
> opinion) excellent practice to do what he said, although try to do it whe
n
> you already have the airport in sight, and try to do it into a headwind,
not
> with a tailwind like I was forced to do. I also didn't have my goggles no
r
> any hearing protection, which would have been nice to block out the screa
ms
> coming from the cabin.
>
> By the way, what got me messed up was relying on the sight gauges more th
an
> the Northstar gauge. The fuel splashes up into those sight gauges, giving
a
> false sense of more fuel than is actually there. And I had set the "GAS"
> reading on the Northstar to read 24 gallons when I had filled it the last
> time, not taking into account the unusable fuel. When I was circling over
> B25, I had the right wing up, and this was forcing the right tank to empt
y,
> and the left tank to unport. When I leveled off and headed for home, the
> right tank was empty, and the left tank was taking its own sweet time to
> re-supply the header tank with fuel, if indeed it had any to offer.
>
> I've since then only entered 20 gallons into the Northstar under "GAS"
> after a fill-up, and only trust the sight gauges when the plane is rock
> steady.
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 800.0 hrs
> Countdown to 1000 hrs--200 to go
> Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
> Electroair direct-fire ignition system
> Rotec TBI-40 injection
> Status: flying (and learning)
> do not archive
>
>
> On Oct 19, 2009, at 9:56 AM, fox5flyer wrote:
>
> However, I still see no great risk why one couldn't practice a real world
>> engine out by shutting down on downwind with a good long runway, have yo
ur
>> tools ready, pull over off to the side and do a quick check. Of course,
>> it's best to announce intentions, wear goggles, hearing protection, info
rm
>> fire department... :-)
>> Deke
>>
>
>
==========
==========
==========
==========
>
>
________________________________ Message 33
____________________________________
Time: 06:13:54 PM PST US
From: Marco Menezes <msm_9949@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: jetting a 582 and a choped elbow
A valuable-cautionary tale Lynn. Thanks. Why did you hesitate to tell it
until now? Afterall, it wasn't "off-airport" even if that was your intent.
;-)
-
Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1 w/clutch
-
do not archive
-
--- On Mon, 10/19/09, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net> wrote:
From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: jetting a 582 and a choped elbow
I've been keeping this little incident a secret up until now, but can't kee
p my mouth shut any longer. While this doesn't come under the heading of pr
actice, it was a real world situation.
I needed 2 hours of flight a couple of weeks ago, so I could change my oil
at my chosen time of 25 hours. I checked the fuel....8 gallons exactly...en
ough for a conservative 2 hour flight at my recent 3.0--3.8 gph. I took off
and headed north, thinking of doing a half-hour in each of four directions
, and being near home when the 2 hours were up. It was great flying weather
, and it was mostly hands off flying. I kept checking my Northstar fuel flo
w gauge for remaining fuel and also checking the sight gauges in the wings.
..plenty of fuel according to the sight gauges, and adequate, according to
the Northstar gauge. Getting near the end of my time allotment, I saw B25,
an airport- just into Indiana from the Michigan state line. I was curious
about this airport, so I circled the field a couple of times trying to see
if there was a building large enough for a B-25 plane, or if one was sitti
ng outside. Seeing nothing along those lines, I figured I'd better
head for home, and turned toward the northeast. I had flown in this direct
ion for about 3 minutes, still looking outside and taking in the sights, wh
en I caught sight of my low fuel warning light which was brightly lit. My c
lear vent line up to the right-hand fuel tank was empty, so I knew I was in
deep do-do. I hit the NRST button on my GPS and saw Williams County (0G6)
as the closest airport. This airport is just east of Bryan, Ohio, and 13 mi
les away from my (then) present location. The engine was still running, and
I was at about 4,000 feet MSL. I pointed it in that direction, and hoped f
or the best, all the while looking for a place to land. I had covered about
7 miles when the engine stopped. I had tried to position the plane to allo
w the fuel to get to the port, but also hoping to make the airport, which m
eant "quit screwing around with the fuel and streamline the plane for best
glide". Now I *really* started to look for fields. I could tell that
I didn't want to try to stretch the glide, because this would put me...pos
sibly...right over Bryan, Ohio, and that was not appealing at all. I'd cove
red maybe another mile when I saw a long green stretch of land between all
the brown fields of beans growing in the area. I said to my self that this
was gonna become an airport in the next few minutes, and started to slip do
wn toward it. The wind was from about 220=B0 and this strip of green was ru
nning 9-27. I was north of it, and I didn't want to try landing into the wi
nd because that would have eaten up too much altitude. So here I was slippi
ng it down to the west end of this "soon-to-become airport" at a pretty goo
d clip, and finally had to straighten it out and put it down. When it final
ly touched down, I was going pretty damn fast, and got all over the brakes
and it pulled to the right and headed for the beans. I got that straightene
d out and kept braking hard, with the nose of the plane getting too
damn close to the ground...I'd never had the tail that high before on the
ground, and I was pretty sure that I'd have to turn it into the beans to ar
rest the speed if I got much closer to the road which was coming up fast. M
an, stuff was going by fast and the road was getting bigger, when it finall
y slowed enough to drop the tail. When I got out and looked around, I saw a
plywood sign in the shape of an airplane, a wind sock, and a long building
that looked like a series of hangars. I had landed at an real-life airport
, complete with porta-potty and way too-long (thank God ) grass. (I later f
ound out that this is called "Al's Place", by the locals) There was nobody
at this airport, but I made a call and a nice man from 0G6 came out with fu
el....he knew exactly where I had landed. I'll quit the story there because
that was the important part...the landing and getting the fuel so I could
continue home.
All this is to point out that what Deke mentioned is true....it is ( in my
opinion) excellent practice to do what he said, although try to do it when
you already have the airport in sight, and try to do it into a headwind, no
t with a tailwind like I was forced to do. I also didn't have my goggles no
r any hearing protection, which would have been nice to block out the screa
ms coming from the cabin.
By the way, what got me messed up was relying on the sight gauges more than
the Northstar gauge. The fuel splashes up into those sight gauges, giving
a false sense of more fuel than is actually there. And I had set the "GAS"
reading on the Northstar to read 24 gallons when I had filled it the last t
ime, not taking into account the unusable fuel. When I was circling over B2
5, I had the right wing up, and this was forcing the right tank to empty, a
nd the left tank to unport. When I leveled off and headed for home, the rig
ht tank was empty, and the left tank was taking its own sweet time to re-su
pply the header tank with fuel, if indeed it had any to offer.
I've since then only entered 20 gallons into the Northstar under "GAS" afte
r a fill-up, and only trust the sight gauges when the plane is rock steady.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 800.0 hrs
Countdown to 1000 hrs--200 to go
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: flying (and learning)
do not archive
On Oct 19, 2009, at 9:56 AM, fox5flyer wrote:
> However, I still see no great risk why one couldn't practice a real world
engine out by shutting down on downwind with a good long runway, have your
tools ready, pull over off to the side and do a quick check.- Of course,
it's best to announce intentions, wear goggles, hearing protection, inform
fire department...---:-)
> Deke
le, List Admin.
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________ Message 34
____________________________________
Time: 06:31:29 PM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: O200 engine in a Kitfox Super Sport S7
From: "Tommy Walker" <twalker@cableone.net>
Thanks for the replies.
I've built two Zenith 701 kits and considering the Zenith 750 for my next
project,
but I want to take a look at what is available. I like the kitfox. You
guys
who posted pictures certainly have something be proud of!
I am strictly a Tricycle gear builder/flyer.
What can you tell me about the support from the factory?
Many thanks,
Tommy Walker in Alabama
--------
Tommy Walker
N8701 - Anniston, AL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268620#268620
________________________________ Message 35
____________________________________
Time: 06:36:15 PM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: O200 engine in a Kitfox Super Sport S7
From: "Tommy Walker" <twalker@cableone.net>
I'm familiar with the Rotax 912 series. I built two 701's with that engine.
It
is an excellent choice all around. However, for my next project, I already
have a Continental O200, so that's what I'm going with. Weight is
definitely
a consideration.
Thanks for all comments!
Tommy Walker in Alabama
[quote="clint_bazzill(at)hotmail."]Wouldn't you want tosave over a hundred
pounds
C fly faster C have better prop options C then use Rotax 912ULS.
By the way C when was the last car you have seen with air cooled engine.
Liquid
cooling C is cool and no problem with millions of vehicles on hiway etc.
Clint
--------
Tommy Walker
N8701 - Anniston, AL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268621#268621
________________________________ Message 36
____________________________________
Time: 08:27:09 PM PST US
From: Weiss Richard <MDKitfox@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: O200 engine in a Kitfox Super Sport S7
Tommy,
The factory service from Kitfox is as good as it gets. John and Debra
are great folks and care or each airplane (and customer) as if they
were part of the family. As for deciding on a Kitfox, or something
else, it depends on what you want to do. For fun flying, it doesn't
get better than the Fox. For cross-country it doesn't get better than
a G-IV or G-V. However if time isn't a big problem and money is, the
Kitfox is a better option than the Gulfstreams:-D
Seriously, you can't go wrong with the Kitfox. It's safe, fun,
reliable, and is affordable to own and operate.
Rick Weiss
N39RW Series V Speedster, 912ULS
SkyStar S/N 1
Port Orange, FL
On Oct 19, 2009, at 9:33 PM, Tommy Walker wrote:
> >
>
> I'm familiar with the Rotax 912 series. I built two 701's with that
> engine. It is an excellent choice all around. However, for my next
> project, I already have a Continental O200, so that's what I'm going
> with. Weight is definitely a consideration.
>
> Thanks for all comments!
>
> Tommy Walker in Alabama
>
> [quote="clint_bazzill(at)hotmail."]Wouldn't you want to=EF=BDsave
over
> a hundred pounds C fly faster C have better prop options C then use
> Rotax 912ULS.
> By the way C when was the last car you have seen with air cooled
> engine.=EF=BD Liquid cooling C is cool and no problem with millions
of
> vehicles on hiway etc.
> =EF=BD
> =EF=BD
> Clint
>
> --------
> Tommy Walker
> N8701 - Anniston, AL
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268621#268621
>
>
=======================
===========
=======================
===========
=======================
===========
=======================
===========
>
>
________________________________ Message 37
____________________________________
Time: 09:06:49 PM PST US
From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: O200 engine in a Kitfox Super Sport S7
When was the last time you saw that car at 10,000 feet above the
ground? Cars in the cargo hold of an airplane don't count. : )
Air cooling is light in weight, available anywhere the plane can go,
not affected by a broken radiator or hose, etc., and no problem with
billions of airplanes flying anywhere...all over the world, year
after year, after year. Lose some of that $25/gallon coolant, and
what do you do?
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 800.0 hrs
Countdown to 1000 hrs--200 to go
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: flying (and learning)
On Oct 19, 2009, at 7:31 PM, Clint Bazzill wrote:
> Wouldn't you want to save over a hundred pounds, fly faster, have
> better prop options, then use Rotax 912ULS.
> By the way, when was the last car you have seen with air cooled
> engine. Liquid cooling, is cool and no problem with millions of
> vehicles on hiway etc.
>
>
> Clint
>
> > Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: O200 engine in a Kitfox Super Sport S7
> > From: gbsb2002@yahoo.com
> > Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 10:57:29 -0700
> > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> >
> >
> > Hi the Cont. 0-200 would make an excellent powerplant in a Kitfox
> 5 and up, the great thing about the 0-200 is no liquid cooling Dual
> ignition, an engine designed for aircraft not a auto engine.
> > While a Champ is a good airplane but the Kitfox is also a great
> airplane so it just depends on the type of flying one wants to do.
> one of the big advantages of the Kitfox is maintenance and the
> ability make modifications much easier than on a certifed aircraft.
> >
> > --------
> > GB
> > MNFlyer
> > Flying a HKS Kitfox III
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268424#268424
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >=====================
> &g================
> >
> >
> >
> ============================================================ _-
> ============================================================ _-
> contribution_-
> ==========================================================
________________________________ Message 38
____________________________________
Time: 09:20:19 PM PST US
From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: jetting a 582 and a choped elbow
Thanks, Pat.
Please, I urge everyone to read: ( http://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/
182044-1.html ) which is the address for Pelican's Perch #7, in
which John Deakin "takes aim at yet another OWT (Old Wive's Tale)" ,
that of running a tank dry on purpose. He has some ideas that might
change a pilots mind about the subject of fueling your plane.
By the way, after flying home, I folded the wings back and removed
the finger strainers, thinking that maybe I had a flow problem
(because I positioned the plane to feed the rear/only fuel outlets
during the descent to the field), but there was absolutely NO
obstruction to the finger strainers after 3-1/2 years of flying with
100LL with Kreeme APPLIED CORRECTLY, according to the instructions.
I was very surprised that there wasn't ANYTHING on those strainers,
and nothing anywhere else. Just to be sure, I changed all the hoses
from the fuel tanks down to the header tank. I also changed the
Purolator fuel filters after the same time period, and they were also
clean, but I changed them anyway. I had already changed the lines
from the header forward during the Rotec TBI installation 2 months
ago. My fuel lines...SAE 30R7....were still flexible after those
3-1/2 years.
Another "by the way"....at this very minute, I just turned 73...Happy
Birthday to me, happy birthday to me.... : )
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 800.0 hrs
Countdown to 1000 hrs--200 to go
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: flying (and learning)
On Oct 19, 2009, at 8:14 PM, Patrick Reilly wrote:
> Lynn, Thanks for the insite. I have made a habit in the C150 I am
> taking lessons in to make a point of, not having "enough " gas for
> the mission, but, having enough gas to return with a minimum of 10
> gallons still on board. That was after another club member alerted
> that I had left the plane with only 2 gals of gas in it. It has 3
> galllons unuseable fuel!
>
> Pat Reilly
> Mod 3 582 Rebuild
> Rockford, IL
________________________________ Message 39
____________________________________
Time: 09:49:58 PM PST US
From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: jetting a 582 and a choped elbow
Another "by the way" comes from this incident....I covered 552
statute miles, and flew for a total of 5.9 hours during the running
dry of the fuel tanks. Earlier runs showed two consecutive trips that
garnered 513 miles each, and one filling that got me 531 miles, but I
will not try to beat this (552 miles) distance. Those earlier 513 and
531-mile trips were not run dry, just longer-than-normal tank runs.
In the 531-mile run, I used 19.7 gallons to fill after. I don't have
a figure for the fuel used after this latest (552-mile) trip, because
we added an unknown amount of fuel down there, and I drained the
tanks when returning home, etc., so no good figures on amount used.
An earlier low-fuel incident took 22.5 gallons (386 miles) to fill at
some place called Oshkosh...perhaps you've heard of it? : ) That
flight was with the Bing carburetor. After I told the guy how much
fuel it should take, and nearly hit it on the head, he said "You sure
know your airplane" ...maybe I know it a little TOO well. : )
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 800.0 hrs
Countdown to 1000 hrs--200 to go
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: flying (and learning)
On Oct 19, 2009, at 8:14 PM, Patrick Reilly wrote:
> Lynn, Thanks for the insite. I have made a habit in the C150 I am
> taking lessons in to make a point of, not having "enough " gas for
> the mission, but, having enough gas to return with a minimum of 10
> gallons still on board. That was after another club member alerted
> that I had left the plane with only 2 gals of gas in it. It has 3
> galllons unuseable fuel!
>
> Pat Reilly
> Mod 3 582 Rebuild
> Rockford, IL
________________________________ Message 40
____________________________________
Time: 09:50:41 PM PST US
From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: jetting a 582 and a choped elbow
I dunno....just felt a bit stupid, I guess, Marco. Plus, I wasn't
sure how much trouble I'd be in if I made it public. But a good
lawyer (ugh!) would argue that I did such a good service by admitting
it and letting others know, that instead of getting a penalty, I
should be given a medal....geez, those guys are such....I don't know
what, but they are!
I've always maintained, like aviation technical author John Deakin,
that you should "Know thine airplane" and know how much fuel you need
for the flight, and not just blindly pour fuel into it each and every
time you land, because this is just wasteful in terms of carrying too
much fuel most of the time "and not very professional." For a very
good read on this subject, see "Pelican's Perch #7" ( http://
www.avweb.com/news/pelican/182044-1.html ) He makes very good sense,
and I encourage every pilot to read this article...you might come
away with a new outlook on "filling her up" every time you land. I
know people who just about wet their britches when they think about
missing an opportunity to put fuel in the plane.
Since this happened, I've begun to think seriously about adding
another fuel outlet at the front of the tanks, just to enable access
to that "unusable fuel" when in a pitch-down attitude....I'm still
mulling that one over.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 800.0 hrs
Countdown to 1000 hrs--200 to go
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: flying (and learning)
do not archive
On Oct 19, 2009, at 9:01 PM, Marco Menezes wrote:
> A valuable cautionary tale Lynn. Thanks. Why did you hesitate to
> tell it until now? Afterall, it wasn't "off-airport" even if that
> was your intent. ;-)
>
> Marco Menezes N99KX
> Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1 w/clutch
>
> do not archive
>
>
> --- On Mon, 10/19/09, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net> wrote:
>
> From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: jetting a 582 and a choped elbow
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Date: Monday, October 19, 2009, 2:02 PM
>
>
> I've been keeping this little incident a secret up until now, but
> can't keep my mouth shut any longer. While this doesn't come under
> the heading of practice, it was a real world situation.
>
> I needed 2 hours of flight a couple of weeks ago, so I could change
> my oil at my chosen time of 25 hours. I checked the fuel....8
> gallons exactly...enough for a conservative 2 hour flight at my
> recent 3.0--3.8 gph. I took off and headed north, thinking of doing
> a half-hour in each of four directions, and being near home when
> the 2 hours were up. It was great flying weather, and it was mostly
> hands off flying. I kept checking my Northstar fuel flow gauge for
> remaining fuel and also checking the sight gauges in the
> wings...plenty of fuel according to the sight gauges, and adequate,
> according to the Northstar gauge. Getting near the end of my time
> allotment, I saw B25, an airport just into Indiana from the
> Michigan state line. I was curious about this airport, so I circled
> the field a couple of times trying to see if there was a building
> large enough for a B-25 plane, or if one was sitting outside.
> Seeing nothing along those lines, I figured I'd better head for
> home, and turned toward the northeast. I had flown in this
> direction for about 3 minutes, still looking outside and taking in
> the sights, when I caught sight of my low fuel warning light which
> was brightly lit. My clear vent line up to the right-hand fuel tank
> was empty, so I knew I was in deep do-do. I hit the NRST button on
> my GPS and saw Williams County (0G6) as the closest airport. This
> airport is just east of Bryan, Ohio, and 13 miles away from my
> (then) present location. The engine was still running, and I was at
> about 4,000 feet MSL. I pointed it in that direction, and hoped for
> the best, all the while looking for a place to land. I had covered
> about 7 miles when the engine stopped. I had tried to position the
> plane to allow the fuel to get to the port, but also hoping to make
> the airport, which meant "quit screwing around with the fuel and
> streamline the plane for best glide". Now I *really* started to
> look for fields. I could tell that I didn't want to try to stretch
> the glide, because this would put me...possibly...right over Bryan,
> Ohio, and that was not appealing at all. I'd covered maybe another
> mile when I saw a long green stretch of land between all the brown
> fields of beans growing in the area. I said to my self that this
> was gonna become an airport in the next few minutes, and started to
> slip down toward it. The wind was from about 220 and this strip of
> green was running 9-27. I was north of it, and I didn't want to try
> landing into the wind because that would have eaten up too much
> altitude. So here I was slipping it down to the west end of this
> "soon-to-become airport" at a pretty good clip, and finally had to
> straighten it out and put it down. When it finally touched down, I
> was going pretty damn fast, and got all over the brakes and it
> pulled to the right and headed for the beans. I got that
> straightened out and kept braking hard, with the nose of the plane
> getting too damn close to the ground...I'd never had the tail that
> high before on the ground, and I was pretty sure that I'd have to
> turn it into the beans to arrest the speed if I got much closer to
> the road which was coming up fast. Man, stuff was going by fast and
> the road was getting bigger, when it finally slowed enough to drop
> the tail. When I got out and looked around, I saw a plywood sign in
> the shape of an airplane, a wind sock, and a long building that
> looked like a series of hangars. I had landed at an real-life
> airport, complete with porta-potty and way too-long (thank God )
> grass. (I later found out that this is called "Al's Place", by the
> locals) There was nobody at this airport, but I made a call and a
> nice man from 0G6 came out with fuel....he knew exactly where I had
> landed. I'll quit the story there because that was the important
> part...the landing and getting the fuel so I could continue home.
>
> All this is to point out that what Deke mentioned is true....it is
> ( in my opinion) excellent practice to do what he said, although
> try to do it when you already have the airport in sight, and try to
> do it into a headwind, not with a tailwind like I was forced to do.
> I also didn't have my goggles nor any hearing protection, which
> would have been nice to block out the screams coming from the cabin.
>
> By the way, what got me messed up was relying on the sight gauges
> more than the Northstar gauge. The fuel splashes up into those
> sight gauges, giving a false sense of more fuel than is actually
> there. And I had set the "GAS" reading on the Northstar to read 24
> gallons when I had filled it the last time, not taking into account
> the unusable fuel. When I was circling over B25, I had the right
> wing up, and this was forcing the right tank to empty, and the left
> tank to unport. When I leveled off and headed for home, the right
> tank was empty, and the left tank was taking its own sweet time to
> re-supply the header tank with fuel, if indeed it had any to offer.
>
> I've since then only entered 20 gallons into the Northstar under
> "GAS" after a fill-up, and only trust the sight gauges when the
> plane is rock steady.
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 800.0 hrs
> Countdown to 1000 hrs--200 to go
> Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
> Electroair direct-fire ignition system
> Rotec TBI-40 injection
> Status: flying (and learning)
> do not archive
>
>
> On Oct 19, 2009, at 9:56 AM, fox5flyer wrote:
>
> > However, I still see no great risk why one couldn't practice a
> real world engine out by shutting down on downwind with a good long
> runway, have your tools ready, pull over off to the side and do a
> quick check. Of course, it's best to announce intentions, wear
> goggles, hearing protection, inform fire department... :-)
> = --> http:======================
>
>
> www.matronics.com/contribution _-
> ==========================================================
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| Subject: | Re-Kreem Fuel Tanks |
Hello Paul,
You say you are flying again. What type of fuel lines did you install on
your newly Kreemed fuel tanks?
I have been experiencing the same thing. My engine started to run rough
about four years ago. I just completed the re-slosh with Kreem and I bought
some fuel line at NAPA auto stores. It is black rubber gas line. I would
expect that ethanol and any other auto fuel will not harm this fuel line. I
do not know about 100LL however. I sometimes fuel up with 100LL during cross
country flights.
Thanks,
Kirk Martenson
Classic IV 912UL
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Kitfox-List Digest: 40 Msgs - 10/19/09 |
Oh, hell yeah.....Michigan's a big-time wacky-backy center! Fly that
float plane up here and check out our weed bogs. : ) But don't
forget to fill up with fuel several times along the way!
Hey, given what the Snake-man has done, I thought that trick was just
another one of his.....well, WACKY....escapades.
p.s. Man, you digest guys have got to learn to do some editing before
you send....it took me forever to delete 40 messages that were just
along for the ride. Being as I'm taking some heat the last few days,
I'll play moderator and take the heat for inserting this reminder. : )
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 801.4 hrs
Countdown to 1000 hrs--199 to go
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: flying (and learning)
do not archive
On Oct 21, 2009, at 8:54 PM, Ed Gray wrote:
>
> Lynn, you are trippin man! I didn't know wacky tobacky grew up in
> Michigan.
> You didn't really think ole Snake just took of one blade and flew
> with the
> other two not opposed, did you? Anyhow, you guys constantly
> entertain me.
> My bird is flying and I bought home-made floats from Canada, (Muktuk
> pattern) so hope to be on water next summer.I'll send a pic to the
> digest.
>
> Ed Gray, dallas, KFII 582 gsc
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII
> version
> of the Kitfox-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Re-Kreem Fuel Tanks |
If you bought the SAE 30R7 fuel line, you can rest assured that 100LL
will not harm it. I have over 800 hours running this type of
line...in some cases, the SAME line for all of those 800 hours, and
no signs of any harm to the lines, some of which I changed just last
week. And NO sign of the Kreeme flaking, peeling, dissolving, etc.
And that's after approximately 3200 gallons passing through those tanks.
I fly an airplane, and when I DO decide to put fuel into this
airplane, is it 99.999% always airplane fuel.....that's one of the
Old Wives Tales that I pay attention to. :)
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 801.4 hrs
Countdown to 1000 hrs--199 to go
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: flying (and learning)
On Oct 21, 2009, at 10:33 PM, Kitfoxkirk wrote:
> Hello Paul,
>
> You say you are flying again. What type of fuel lines did you
> install on your newly Kreemed fuel tanks?
>
> I have been experiencing the same thing. My engine started to run
> rough about four years ago. I just completed the re-slosh with
> Kreem and I bought some fuel line at NAPA auto stores. It is black
> rubber gas line. I would expect that ethanol and any other auto
> fuel will not harm this fuel line. I do not know about 100LL
> however. I sometimes fuel up with 100LL during cross country flights.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Kirk Martenson
>
> Classic IV 912UL
> www.matronics.com/contribution _-
> ===========================================================
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