Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:15 AM - Landing on one wheel (Michel)
2. 02:59 AM - Re: Landing on one wheel (Dave)
3. 09:40 AM - Re: Landing on one wheel (Michael Laundy)
4. 10:02 AM - Re: Landing on one wheel (Jos=C3=A9_M._Toro)
5. 01:12 PM - Re: header tank does not stay full - installing a fitting at the top of the wing tank (Sacha)
6. 05:54 PM - Re: header tank does not stay full - installing a fitting at the top of the wing tank (Lloyd & Lorrie Cudnohufsky)
7. 07:53 PM - Re: header tank does not stay full - installing a fitting at the top of the wing tank (Sacha)
8. 08:31 PM - Re: header tank does not stay full - installing a fitting at the top of the wing tank (Patrick Reilly)
9. 09:50 PM - Re: header tank does not stay full - installing a fitting at the top of the wing tank (Sacha)
10. 10:03 PM - Re: header tank does not stay full - installing a fitting at the top of the wing tank (Guy Buchanan)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Landing on one wheel |
Hello guys,
My son, who has not been flying our Kitfox 3 for two years, need an instructor
check-up to keep his license. I asked the instructor what my son needed to train
for before the check-up.
He answered: "Climbing 500 ft in 360 degrees turn, then the opposite, then landing
on 3 points, 2 points and one wheel."
"One wheel?" Yes, it is necessary if landing in crosswind, doing a side slip.
Okay, I do a lot of side slips, to get the right speed on final since I never use
my flaperons. But, touching the ground side slipping and on one wheel is ...
awkward when the wind is not from the side!
But he insists that we do that, as a training. Okay, I tried a couple of times
but when landing with a head wind, side slipping on one wheel, there is a lateral
pull on the wheel and I don't like it!
I don't like it because I still have the old fashion gear made of steel pipes and
I am afraid I might bend something. Of course, I could try to do it when there
is a real side wind so that I actually compensate the wind drift with the
side displacement, which is the intention. But where I live, the prevailing winds
are very much in the direction of the runway and I just can't match the very
seldom crosswind with my son's training.
My question then is: Has any of you had problems with the original gear, landing
on one wheel? I know of a Kitfox that has hit a taxiway asphalt edge with his
right hand wheel and the tube under the seat, the one the bungee is turned around,
was bended. I don't want to get the same! Will I run a risk of it?
Cheers,
Michel
--------
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=409750#409750
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Landing on one wheel |
Michel, sounds like you have a great instructor!
Here is one wheel landing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5j7aBw90n9U at
just over 1 min into this video.
>>> I don't like it because I still have the old fashion gear made of steel
>>> pipes and I am afraid I might bend something<<<
Absolute nonsense........... that old fashion gear is 4140 CrMo - Very
strong gear -
When I read of these mishaps and the gear gets blamed -it might be the pilot
thats should be for landing so hard they bend the gear.
I have never bent one and I have had some very rough landing in very rough
terrain. Mind you I do not land sideways or drop it in 30 feet from the
ground.
Some of thes damages are hard to fathom...........
Keep up the good work and get your son flying.........
Cheers
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michel" <michel@online.no>
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2013 5:15 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Landing on one wheel
>
> Hello guys,
> My son, who has not been flying our Kitfox 3 for two years, need an
> instructor check-up to keep his license. I asked the instructor what my
> son needed to train for before the check-up.
>
> He answered: "Climbing 500 ft in 360 degrees turn, then the opposite, then
> landing on 3 points, 2 points and one wheel."
>
> "One wheel?" Yes, it is necessary if landing in crosswind, doing a side
> slip.
>
> Okay, I do a lot of side slips, to get the right speed on final since I
> never use my flaperons. But, touching the ground side slipping and on one
> wheel is ... awkward when the wind is not from the side!
>
> But he insists that we do that, as a training. Okay, I tried a couple of
> times but when landing with a head wind, side slipping on one wheel, there
> is a lateral pull on the wheel and I don't like it!
>
> I don't like it because I still have the old fashion gear made of steel
> pipes and I am afraid I might bend something. Of course, I could try to do
> it when there is a real side wind so that I actually compensate the wind
> drift with the side displacement, which is the intention. But where I
> live, the prevailing winds are very much in the direction of the runway
> and I just can't match the very seldom crosswind with my son's training.
>
> My question then is: Has any of you had problems with the original gear,
> landing on one wheel? I know of a Kitfox that has hit a taxiway asphalt
> edge with his right hand wheel and the tube under the seat, the one the
> bungee is turned around, was bended. I don't want to get the same! Will I
> run a risk of it?
>
> Cheers,
> Michel
>
> --------
> Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=409750#409750
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Landing on one wheel |
Michael,=0A-=0AI am with you on this one, when I-learned to fly 50 year
s ago on Chipmunks as-a trainee RAF pilot, we were taught- the"crab" te
chnique for landing in a cross winds.- Later as an RAF flying instructor
the "crab" crosswind landing technique was the one we taught our students o
n the Jet Provost.- I have used that technique ever since when flying-
straight wing aircraft.- The only time I used side slipping for- crossw
ind- landings was when flying swept wing airliners (Boeing 767), as with
them "kicking "off drift using a "crab"- tchnique can give an unacceptabl
e rate of roll away from the crosswind, and- heavy aircraft are sluggish
to react to control inputs at low speed due to their high inertia. They do
of course have multi wheel bogies to land on!=0A-=0AIn my opinion there a
re hazards with the Kitfox to land side slipping on one wheel.- Its too e
asy to get a high rate of descent in the slide slip and I find on my KF3 I
run out of up elevator at slow speed, -the two combined could easily give
a hard landing, and on one wheel that could break something.=0A-=0AThe s
trip I use is frequently out of wind and I-sometimes have to land with cr
osswinds up to 15 mph.- In strong crosswinds-I make my approach at 60mp
h -reducing to around 50mph in the flare and as I run out of up elevator
and sense the aircraft starting to sink I give a qick burst of power to add
a bit of slipstream effect over the rudder and elevators and kick the drif
t off with rudder, it works well for me!- =0A-=0AMike=0AKitfox 3 Rotax
582=0ACornwall UK=0A-=0A-=0A=0A=0A>________________________________=0A>
From: Michel <michel@online.no>=0A>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com =0A>Sent:
Thursday, 3 October 2013, 2:15=0A>Subject: Kitfox-List: Landing on one whee
=0A>=0A>Hello guys,=0A>My son, who has not been flying our Kitfox 3 for two
years, need an instructor check-up to keep his license. I asked the instru
ctor what my son needed to train for before the check-up.=0A>=0A>He answere
d: "Climbing 500 ft in 360 degrees turn, then the opposite, then landing on
3 points, 2 points and one wheel."=0A>=0A>"One wheel?" Yes, it is necessar
y if landing in crosswind, doing a side slip.=0A>=0A>Okay, I do a lot of si
de slips, to get the right speed on final since I never use my flaperons. B
ut, touching the ground side slipping and on one wheel is ... awkward when
the wind is not from the side!=0A>=0A>But he insists that we do that, as a
training. Okay, I tried a couple of times but when landing with a head wind
, side slipping on one wheel, there is a lateral pull on the wheel and I do
n't like it!=0A>=0A>I don't like it because I still have the old fashion ge
ar made of steel pipes and I am afraid I might bend something. Of course, I
could try to do it when there is a real side wind so that I actually compe
nsate the wind drift with the side displacement, which is the intention. Bu
t where I live, the prevailing winds are very much in the direction of the
runway and I just can't match the very seldom crosswind with my son's train
ing.=0A>=0A>My question then is: Has any of you had problems with the origi
nal gear, landing on one wheel? I know of a Kitfox that has hit a taxiway a
sphalt edge with his right hand wheel and the tube under the seat, the one
the bungee is turned around, was bended. I don't want to get the same! Will
I run a risk of it?=0A>=0A>Cheers,=0A>Michel=0A>=0A>--------=0A>Kitfox 3 -
Jabiru 2200=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>Read this topic online here:=0A>=0A>http://
forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=409750#409750=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A
=========================0A
=========================0A
========================0A>
=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Landing on one wheel |
Michel:
I had a Kitfox II. I think the model III ldg gear is stronger. It was typica
l to have x-wind at my homebase. I used to made one wheel landings very ofte
n. No problem at all. As a matter of fact, I would not do the crab and kick
the rudder technique.
Saludos!
Jos=C3=A9
Sent from my iPhone
> On Oct 3, 2013, at 12:39 PM, Michael Laundy <mikelaundy@yahoo.co.uk> wrote
:
>
> Michael,
>
> I am with you on this one, when I learned to fly 50 years ago on Chipmunks
as a trainee RAF pilot, we were taught the"crab" technique for landing in a
cross winds. Later as an RAF flying instructor the "crab" crosswind landin
g technique was the one we taught our students on the Jet Provost. I have u
sed that technique ever since when flying straight wing aircraft. The only
time I used side slipping for crosswind landings was when flying swept wi
ng airliners (Boeing 767), as with them "kicking "off drift using a "crab" t
chnique can give an unacceptable rate of roll away from the crosswind, and h
eavy aircraft are sluggish to react to control inputs at low speed due to th
eir high inertia. They do of course have multi wheel bogies to land on!
>
> In my opinion there are hazards with the Kitfox to land side slipping on o
ne wheel. Its too easy to get a high rate of descent in the slide slip and I
find on my KF3 I run out of up elevator at slow speed, the two combined co
uld easily give a hard landing, and on one wheel that could break something.
>
> The strip I use is frequently out of wind and I sometimes have to land wit
h crosswinds up to 15 mph. In strong crosswinds I make my approach at 60mph
reducing to around 50mph in the flare and as I run out of up elevator and s
ense the aircraft starting to sink I give a qick burst of power to add a bit
of slipstream effect over the rudder and elevators and kick the drift off w
ith rudder, it works well for me!
>
> Mike
> Kitfox 3 Rotax 582
> Cornwall UK
>
>
>
> From: Michel <michel@online.no>
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Thursday, 3 October 2013, 2:15
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Landing on one wheel
>
>
> Hello guys,
> My son, who has not been flying our Kitfox 3 for two years, need an instru
ctor check-up to keep his license. I asked the instructor what my son needed
to train for before the check-up.
>
> He answered: "Climbing 500 ft in 360 degrees turn, then the opposite, then
landing on 3 points, 2 points and one wheel."
>
> "One wheel?" Yes, it is necessary if landing in crosswind, doing a side sl
ip.
>
> Okay, I do a lot of side slips, to get the right speed on final since I ne
ver use my flaperons. But, touching the ground side slipping and on one whee
l is ... awkward when the wind is not from the side!
>
> But he insists that we do that, as a training. Okay, I tried a couple of t
imes but when landing with a head wind, side slipping on one wheel, there is
a lateral pull on the wheel and I don't like it!
>
> I don't like it because I still have the old fashion gear made of steel pi
pes and I am afraid I might bend something. Of course, I could try to do it w
hen there is a real side wind so that I actually compensate the wind drift w
ith the side displacement, which is the intention. But where I live, the pre
vailing winds are very much in the direction of the runway and I just can't m
atch the very seldom crosswind with my son's training.
>
> My question then is: Has any of you had problems with the original gear, l
anding on one wheel? I know of a Kitfox that has hit a taxiway asphalt edge w
ith his right hand wheel and the tube under the seat, the one the bungee is t
urned around, was bended. I don't want to get the same! Will I run a risk of
it?
>
> Cheers,
> Michel
>
> --------
> Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=409750#409750http://www.matr
onics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
>
>
>
>
>
>
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | header tank does not stay full - installing a fitting |
at the top of the wing tank
Today I went to take a look at my tanks but I realized that (unlike Guys')
mine are made of plastic, not fiberglass. They are quite thin (the fuel
level can be seen through the tank so a couple of mm max) so that I would
need to glue something on the outside in order to drill a hole and cut
threads in it. But gluing on plastic is bound to be problematic; I'm not
sure what plastic it is, it is slightly "greasy" to the touch, maybe
poly-propylene/ethylene.
Does anyone have any experience with this? Can anyone recommend a product
that they have used?
I was thinking, as an alternative to drilling a hole in the tank for a
return breather line, if I could find some kind of valve that lets air out
but not fuel (e.g. like they have on breather lines for boats), I could just
fit one of those to the header tank and be done with it.
Sacha
From: Guy Buchanan [mailto:gebuchanan@cox.net]
Sent: Saturday, 28 September, 2013 05:35
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: header tank does not stay full - installing a
fitting at the top of the wing tank
Brass fittings, pipe threads, no backing. You can do 1/4 to 1/8 pipe adapter
and screw the 1/8 pipe fitting into that but you must be very careful
cutting the 1/4 threads. It's easy to pop your G-10 plate off. Otherwise
just cut 1/8 pipe threads in the G-10 and screw your fitting right into it.
(It depends on whether you think you'll ever have to remove the fitting for
maintenance. If not, go right into the tank. If you have to do regular
maintenance, use the adapter.) I glued the plates with the 3500 psi acrylic
adhesive you find at the hardware store. If you still have any Hysol laying
around that would be better. (Used on the wing ribs.) The pipe fittings I
sealed with the 2-part polysulfide sealant available from Aircraft Spruce.
Expensive as hell but it's the only stuff I ever got to work with 100LL.
Guy
On 9/27/2013 7:33 PM, Sacha wrote:
Guy
Thanks for the pics. I have a question about the fittings. I assume they are
made of bronze and you've screwed them into the tank. Is there a locking
nut on the inside of the tank (if so, how did you access it?) and what did
you use as glue/bond for the fitting.
Message 6
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| Subject: | header tank does not stay full - installing a fitting |
at the top of the wing tank
Sacha,
Is there any way you might be able to use a bulkhead fitting with seals on
both sides? You could run a wire through the hole you drill out the filler
hole on top so you could slide the seal and washer down the wire in order to
line it up with and get it started on the bulkhead fitting.
Just some food for thought.
lloyd
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sacha
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2013 3:12 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: header tank does not stay full - installing a
fitting at the top of the wing tank
Today I went to take a look at my tanks but I realized that (unlike Guys')
mine are made of plastic, not fiberglass. They are quite thin (the fuel
level can be seen through the tank so a couple of mm max) so that I would
need to glue something on the outside in order to drill a hole and cut
threads in it. But gluing on plastic is bound to be problematic; I'm not
sure what plastic it is, it is slightly "greasy" to the touch, maybe
poly-propylene/ethylene.
Does anyone have any experience with this? Can anyone recommend a product
that they have used?
I was thinking, as an alternative to drilling a hole in the tank for a
return breather line, if I could find some kind of valve that lets air out
but not fuel (e.g. like they have on breather lines for boats), I could just
fit one of those to the header tank and be done with it.
Sacha
From: Guy Buchanan [mailto:gebuchanan@cox.net]
Sent: Saturday, 28 September, 2013 05:35
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: header tank does not stay full - installing a
fitting at the top of the wing tank
Brass fittings, pipe threads, no backing. You can do 1/4 to 1/8 pipe adapter
and screw the 1/8 pipe fitting into that but you must be very careful
cutting the 1/4 threads. It's easy to pop your G-10 plate off. Otherwise
just cut 1/8 pipe threads in the G-10 and screw your fitting right into it.
(It depends on whether you think you'll ever have to remove the fitting for
maintenance. If not, go right into the tank. If you have to do regular
maintenance, use the adapter.) I glued the plates with the 3500 psi acrylic
adhesive you find at the hardware store. If you still have any Hysol laying
around that would be better. (Used on the wing ribs.) The pipe fittings I
sealed with the 2-part polysulfide sealant available from Aircraft Spruce.
Expensive as hell but it's the only stuff I ever got to work with 100LL.
Guy
On 9/27/2013 7:33 PM, Sacha wrote:
Guy
Thanks for the pics. I have a question about the fittings. I assume they are
made of bronze and you've screwed them into the tank. Is there a locking
nut on the inside of the tank (if so, how did you access it?) and what did
you use as glue/bond for the fitting.
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: header tank does not stay full - installing a fitting |
at the top of the wing tank
Lloyd
That's a good idea. Trouble is the filer cap is about 8 inches from the side
of the tank. I'm not confident I can get a spanner down there to screw the l
ocking nut in place. If I give it a try then I might get stuck with a hole i
n my tank. So I really need to find out if there's a way to glue this stuff.
The only way I'm aware of is using heat, which is not ideal due to the pres
ence of gasoline. But maybe there are done adhesives or resins which might w
ork? I have no idea.
Sacha
On Oct 4, 2013, at 2:53, "Lloyd & Lorrie Cudnohufsky" <7suds@Chartermi.net> w
rote:
> Sacha,
> Is there any way you might be able to use a bulkhead fitting with seals on
both sides? You could run a wire through the hole you drill out the filler h
ole on top so you could slide the seal and washer down the wire in order to l
ine it up with and get it started on the bulkhead fitting.
> Just some food for thought.
>
> lloyd
>
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-ser
ver@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sacha
> Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2013 3:12 PM
> To: Kitfox List
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: header tank does not stay full - installing a fi
tting at the top of the wing tank
>
> Today I went to take a look at my tanks but I realized that (unlike Guys=81
f) mine are made of plastic, not fiberglass. They are quite thin (the fuel l
evel can be seen through the tank so a couple of mm max) so that I would nee
d to glue something on the outside in order to drill a hole and cut threads i
n it. But gluing on plastic is bound to be problematic; I=81fm not sure wha
t plastic it is, it is slightly =81ggreasy=81h to the touch, maybe poly-prop
ylene/ethylene.
> Does anyone have any experience with this? Can anyone recommend a product
that they have used?
>
> I was thinking, as an alternative to drilling a hole in the tank for a ret
urn breather line, if I could find some kind of valve that lets air out but n
ot fuel (e.g. like they have on breather lines for boats), I could just fit o
ne of those to the header tank and be done with it.
>
> Sacha
>
> From: Guy Buchanan [mailto:gebuchanan@cox.net]
> Sent: Saturday, 28 September, 2013 05:35
> To: Sacha
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: header tank does not stay full - installing a fi
tting at the top of the wing tank
>
> Brass fittings, pipe threads, no backing. You can do 1/4 to 1/8 pipe adapt
er and screw the 1/8 pipe fitting into that but you must be very careful cut
ting the 1/4 threads. It's easy to pop your G-10 plate off. Otherwise just c
ut 1/8 pipe threads in the G-10 and screw your fitting right into it. (It de
pends on whether you think you'll ever have to remove the fitting for mainte
nance. If not, go right into the tank. If you have to do regular maintenance
, use the adapter.) I glued the plates with the 3500 psi acrylic adhesive yo
u find at the hardware store. If you still have any Hysol laying around that
would be better. (Used on the wing ribs.) The pipe fittings I sealed with t
he 2-part polysulfide sealant available from Aircraft Spruce. Expensive as h
ell but it's the only stuff I ever got to work with 100LL.
>
> Guy
>
> On 9/27/2013 7:33 PM, Sacha wrote:
> Guy
> Thanks for the pics. I have a question about the fittings. I assume they a
re made of bronze and you've screwed them into the tank. Is there a locking
nut on the inside of the tank (if so, how did you access it?) and what did y
ou use as glue/bond for the fitting.
>
>
> http://www.matron===================
< - content also available via the Web --> http://forums.matron
ics.com - List Contribution Web generous nbsp;
--> http://www.matronics.com/c
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 10/03/13
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: header tank does not stay full - installing a fitting |
at the top of the wing tank
Sacha, Where are you located? Dow Corning 730 will work. I have some that I
have had in the refrigerator for awhile. Still seems pliable. I sent some
to someone else with similar problem. I used it to seal fitting to my
header tank also. It was $99 for 3 fl oz from ACS. I can send you enough to
accomplish your project. If it works you can sent me a few bucks. If it
doesn't you'll have to buy a whole tube.
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuilt
Rockford, IL
On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 9:52 PM, Sacha <uuccio@gmail.com> wrote:
> Lloyd
> That's a good idea. Trouble is the filer cap is about 8 inches from the
> side of the tank. I'm not confident I can get a spanner down there to scr
ew
> the locking nut in place. If I give it a try then I might get stuck with
a
> hole in my tank. So I really need to find out if there's a way to glue th
is
> stuff. The only way I'm aware of is using heat, which is not ideal due to
> the presence of gasoline. But maybe there are done adhesives or resins
> which might work? I have no idea.
> Sacha
>
> On Oct 4, 2013, at 2:53, "Lloyd & Lorrie Cudnohufsky" <7suds@Chartermi.ne
t>
> wrote:
>
> Sacha,****
>
> Is there any way you might be able to use a bulkhead fitting with seals o
n
> both sides? You could run a wire through the hole you drill out the fille
r
> hole on top so you could slide the seal and washer down the wire in order
> to line it up with and get it started on the bulkhead fitting. ****
>
> Just some food for thought.****
>
> ** **
>
> lloyd ****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [
> mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com<owner-kitfox-list-server@ma
tronics.com>]
> *On Behalf Of *Sacha
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 03, 2013 3:12 PM
> *To:* Kitfox List
> *Subject:* RE: Kitfox-List: header tank does not stay full - installing a
> fitting at the top of the wing tank****
>
> ** **
>
> Today I went to take a look at my tanks but I realized that (unlike Guys
=92)
> mine are made of plastic, not fiberglass. They are quite thin (the fuel
> level can be seen through the tank so a couple of mm max) so that I would
> need to glue something on the outside in order to drill a hole and cut
> threads in it. But gluing on plastic is bound to be problematic; I=92m n
ot
> sure what plastic it is, it is slightly =93greasy=94 to the touch, maybe
> poly-propylene/ethylene. ****
>
> Does anyone have any experience with this? Can anyone recommend a produc
t
> that they have used?****
>
> ** **
>
> I was thinking, as an alternative to drilling a hole in the tank for a
> return breather line, if I could find some kind of valve that lets air ou
t
> but not fuel (e.g. like they have on breather lines for boats), I could
> just fit one of those to the header tank and be done with it. ****
>
> ** **
>
> Sacha****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* Guy Buchanan [mailto:gebuchanan@cox.net <gebuchanan@cox.net>]
> *Sent:* Saturday, 28 September, 2013 05:35
> *To:* Sacha
> *Subject:* Re: Kitfox-List: header tank does not stay full - installing a
> fitting at the top of the wing tank****
>
> ** **
>
> Brass fittings, pipe threads, no backing. You can do 1/4 to 1/8 pipe
> adapter and screw the 1/8 pipe fitting into that but you must be *very *c
areful
> cutting the 1/4 threads. It's easy to pop your G-10 plate off. Otherwise
> just cut 1/8 pipe threads in the G-10 and screw your fitting right into i
t.
> (It depends on whether you think you'll ever have to remove the fitting f
or
> maintenance. If not, go right into the tank. If you have to do regular
> maintenance, use the adapter.) I glued the plates with the 3500 psi acryl
ic
> adhesive you find at the hardware store. If you still have any Hysol layi
ng
> around that would be better. (Used on the wing ribs.) The pipe fittings I
> sealed with the 2-part polysulfide sealant available from Aircraft Spruce
.
> Expensive as hell but it's the only stuff I ever got to work with 100LL.
>
> Guy
>
> On 9/27/2013 7:33 PM, Sacha wrote: ****
>
> Guy****
>
> Thanks for the pics. I have a question about the fittings. I assume they
are made of bronze and you've screwed them into the tank. Is there a locki
ng nut on the inside of the tank (if so, how did you access it?) and what d
id you use as glue/bond for the fitting.****
>
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> * *http://www.matron=================
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rums.matronics.com** - List Contribution Web generous nbsp;
--> http://www.matronics.com/c=**** <http://www.matronics
.com/contribution>**
>
> * * <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
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> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>www.avg.com
> Version: 10/03/13****
>
> *
>
> ========================
> tp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
> ========================
===========cs.com
> ========================
===========matronics.com/contribution
> ========================
> *
>
> *
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--
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford,IL
Message 9
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| Subject: | header tank does not stay full - installing a fitting |
at the top of the wing tank
Hi Pat,
Thanks a lot for that. Unfortunately I'm in Italy so it's probably not
practical to mail it, but it's a Dow product, so I'm sure I can find some
around here somewhere.
Are you recommending it as an adhesive to thicken the tank wall or as a
sealant, or both?
Sacha
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Reilly
Sent: Friday, 04 October, 2013 05:31
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: header tank does not stay full - installing a
fitting at the top of the wing tank
Sacha, Where are you located? Dow Corning 730 will work. I have some that I
have had in the refrigerator for awhile. Still seems pliable. I sent some to
someone else with similar problem. I used it to seal fitting to my header
tank also. It was $99 for 3 fl oz from ACS. I can send you enough to
accomplish your project. If it works you can sent me a few bucks. If it
doesn't you'll have to buy a whole tube.
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuilt
Rockford, IL
On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 9:52 PM, Sacha <uuccio@gmail.com> wrote:
Lloyd
That's a good idea. Trouble is the filer cap is about 8 inches from the side
of the tank. I'm not confident I can get a spanner down there to screw the
locking nut in place. If I give it a try then I might get stuck with a hole
in my tank. So I really need to find out if there's a way to glue this
stuff. The only way I'm aware of is using heat, which is not ideal due to
the presence of gasoline. But maybe there are done adhesives or resins which
might work? I have no idea.
Sacha
On Oct 4, 2013, at 2:53, "Lloyd & Lorrie Cudnohufsky" <7suds@Chartermi.net>
wrote:
Sacha,
Is there any way you might be able to use a bulkhead fitting with seals on
both sides? You could run a wire through the hole you drill out the filler
hole on top so you could slide the seal and washer down the wire in order to
line it up with and get it started on the bulkhead fitting.
Just some food for thought.
lloyd
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sacha
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2013 3:12 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: header tank does not stay full - installing a
fitting at the top of the wing tank
Today I went to take a look at my tanks but I realized that (unlike Guys')
mine are made of plastic, not fiberglass. They are quite thin (the fuel
level can be seen through the tank so a couple of mm max) so that I would
need to glue something on the outside in order to drill a hole and cut
threads in it. But gluing on plastic is bound to be problematic; I'm not
sure what plastic it is, it is slightly "greasy" to the touch, maybe
poly-propylene/ethylene.
Does anyone have any experience with this? Can anyone recommend a product
that they have used?
I was thinking, as an alternative to drilling a hole in the tank for a
return breather line, if I could find some kind of valve that lets air out
but not fuel (e.g. like they have on breather lines for boats), I could just
fit one of those to the header tank and be done with it.
Sacha
From: Guy Buchanan [mailto:gebuchanan@cox.net]
Sent: Saturday, 28 September, 2013 05:35
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: header tank does not stay full - installing a
fitting at the top of the wing tank
Brass fittings, pipe threads, no backing. You can do 1/4 to 1/8 pipe adapter
and screw the 1/8 pipe fitting into that but you must be very careful
cutting the 1/4 threads. It's easy to pop your G-10 plate off. Otherwise
just cut 1/8 pipe threads in the G-10 and screw your fitting right into it.
(It depends on whether you think you'll ever have to remove the fitting for
maintenance. If not, go right into the tank. If you have to do regular
maintenance, use the adapter.) I glued the plates with the 3500 psi acrylic
adhesive you find at the hardware store. If you still have any Hysol laying
around that would be better. (Used on the wing ribs.) The pipe fittings I
sealed with the 2-part polysulfide sealant available from Aircraft Spruce.
Expensive as hell but it's the only stuff I ever got to work with 100LL.
Guy
On 9/27/2013 7:33 PM, Sacha wrote:
Guy
Thanks for the pics. I have a question about the fittings. I assume they are
made of bronze and you've screwed them into the tank. Is there a locking
nut on the inside of the tank (if so, how did you access it?) and what did
you use as glue/bond for the fitting.
http://www.matron===================< - content also available
via the Web --> http://forums.matronics.com - List Contribution
Web generous nbsp; --> http://www.matronics.com/c
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution> No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10/03/13
=========
tp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
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matronics.com/contribution
=========
arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford,IL
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: header tank does not stay full - installing a fitting |
at the top of the wing tank
Bummer dude. You're quite right, there's no way to glue to polyethylene.
(See this <http://www.eplastics.com/Polyethylene-Adhesives-Glue>. The
Dow 370 is a sealant, not an adhesive.) The only way to add a boss is to
weld it. If you could get access, you might be able to put together a
fixture in your hand drill that might enable you to friction weld it,
but if you messed up you'd have one huge hole in your tank. I do think
you could install a small bulkhead fitting through the filler neck, as
follows:
* Cut the inside barb off this fitting
<http://www.zorotools.com/g/00057435/k-G1187286?utm_source=google_shopping&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Google_Shopping_Feed&kw=%7Bkeyword%7D&gclid=CJ-wh42x_LkCFQto7AodzVcA2A>.
(You want the nut on the outside.) Clean it up. (You might try to
find a right angle barb that would make the job of holding it in
place while you tighten the nut easier.)
* Cut the hole in the tank so the nuts are at least 1/4" from the
tank radius. (If possible.)
* Try to rough up the tank surfaces 1/2" around the hole.
* Make two 1/16" G-10 washers to fit the barb threads and extend to
the tank radius. (Might make them larger and flatten one side
where the radius is. Might make them thicker if there are enough
threads on the barb.)
* Run a stiff wire from the hole in the tank to the filler. Slide on
the barb and one washer, both heavily loaded with 2-part
polysulfide sealant and bend the wire end into a hook.
* Pull the barb out through the hole in the tank.
* Load up the outside with sealant.
* Add the other washer and nut and tighten the nut as much as you
can holding the barb with something that won't damage it. You
don't need it really, really tight, since the sealant will take up
the slack.
That's one idea.
Guy Buchanan
Ramona, CA
Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
Now a glider pilot, too.
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