Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:54 AM - Re: Kolb-List Digest: 31 Msgs - 07/07/05 (Edward Steuber)
2. 05:03 AM - RE : Cross country or follow roads (Edward Steuber)
3. 05:03 AM - Decarbon 447 (N27SB@aol.com)
4. 05:21 AM - Re: RE : Cross country or follow roads (John Hauck)
5. 05:34 AM - Re: Decarbon 447 (John Hauck)
6. 05:41 AM - Re: Decarbon 447 (Dwight.Kottke@hti.htch.com)
7. 05:53 AM - Re: q & straying off topic) (Todd Fredricks)
8. 06:00 AM - q (russ kinne)
9. 07:59 AM - Re: q/Cross Country and Highways (ray anderson)
10. 08:27 AM - IFR? i follow roads or not (b young)
11. 08:43 AM - Re: q/Cross Country and Highways (John Hauck)
12. 08:46 AM - Re: q/Cross Country and Highways (Flycrazy8@aol.com)
13. 11:13 AM - Re: q/Cross Country and Highways (John Williamson)
14. 11:22 AM - Re: IFR? i follow roads or not (Beauford)
15. 11:43 AM - Re: IFR? i follow roads or not (Todd Fredricks)
16. 11:48 AM - Re: q/Cross Country and Highways (Todd Fredricks)
17. 12:38 PM - Re: q/Cross Country and Highways (WillUribe@aol.com)
18. 12:46 PM - Re: q/Cross Country and Highways (ray anderson)
19. 02:29 PM - Cross Country (John Hauck)
20. 03:11 PM - Re: Cross Country (Bob N.)
21. 03:50 PM - Re: Cross Country (Todd Fredricks)
22. 03:51 PM - Re: Cross Country (John Hauck)
23. 04:00 PM - Re: Cross Country (ron wehba)
24. 04:01 PM - Re: Cross Country (Todd Fredricks)
25. 04:03 PM - q (russ kinne)
26. 04:08 PM - Engines and Reliability (John Hauck)
27. 04:39 PM - Re: Engines and Reliability (Todd Fredricks)
28. 05:53 PM - Re: Engines and Reliability (Rusty)
29. 06:23 PM - Re: q - Safe Operations (John Williamson)
30. 06:30 PM - Re: q - Safe Operations (Todd Fredricks)
31. 06:36 PM - Re: Engines and Reliability (Dennis Souder)
32. 07:05 PM - Re: Twin Kolb Mark IV (Todd Fredricks)
33. 07:23 PM - Re: Engines and Reliability (Rusty)
34. 07:36 PM - Re: Engines and Reliability (Todd Fredricks)
35. 07:41 PM - Re: Engines and Reliability (Herb Gayheart)
36. 08:03 PM - Re: Re: Twin Kolb Mark IV (Dennis Souder)
37. 08:40 PM - Re: Re: Twin Kolb Mark IV (John Hauck)
38. 08:55 PM - Liberal?/Conservative? which is which? was : young flyers (Charlie England)
39. 10:54 PM - Re: q (Richard Pike)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 31 Msgs - 07/07/05 |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Edward Steuber" <esteuber@rochester.rr.com>
Bob,
How much more time you have to fly off before you can go beyond
the "leash " ?
Here is a picture a week ago at Pine Hill...we go for breakfast
almost every Sunday....
ED
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kolb-List Digest Server" <kolb-list-digest@matronics.com>
Subject: Kolb-List Digest: 31 Msgs - 07/07/05
> *
>
> ==================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> ==================================================
>
> Today's complete Kolb-List Digest can also be found in either of the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
> of the Kolb-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list/Digest.Kolb-List.2005-07-07.html
>
> Text Version:
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list/Digest.Kolb-List.2005-07-07.txt
>
>
> ================================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ================================================
>
>
> Kolb-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Thu 07/07/05: 31
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 01:50 AM - Re: Elevator linkage redesign (Rick Pearce)
> 2. 05:32 AM - Re: Grass landing strip question (Jeremy Casey)
> 3. 05:45 AM - clinkin n clankin (robert bean)
> 4. 06:07 AM - Lift Strut Fitting Mods (John Hauck)
> 5. 06:13 AM - Re: Grass landing strip question (John Hauck)
> 6. 06:18 AM - Re: Lift Strut Fitting Mods (Todd Fredricks)
> 7. 06:33 AM - Re: Grass landing strip question (Todd Fredricks)
> 8. 06:34 AM - Re: Lift Strut Fitting Mods (John Hauck)
> 9. 06:57 AM - Re: Lift Strut Fitting Mods (Todd Fredricks)
> 10. 07:03 AM - Re: Grass landing strip question (John Hauck)
> 11. 08:08 AM - Landing gear (Dwight.Kottke@hti.htch.com)
> 12. 12:10 PM - Re: Landing gear (John Hauck)
> 13. 02:39 PM - q (russ kinne)
> 14. 03:09 PM - Re: q (John Williamson)
> 15. 03:24 PM - Re: q (Robert Laird)
> 16. 03:58 PM - Re: q/Cross Country or Follow Roads (John Hauck)
> 17. 03:59 PM - Re: q (ray anderson)
> 18. 04:07 PM - Re: q/Cross Country and Following Roads (John Hauck)
> 19. 04:18 PM - Re: q/Cross Country and Highways (John Hauck)
> 20. 05:17 PM - Re: q/Cross Country and Highways (ray anderson)
> 21. 05:47 PM - Re: q/Cross Country and Highways (robert bean)
> 22. 05:52 PM - Cross Country Routes (Vince Nicely)
> 23. 06:40 PM - Re: Cross Country Routes (Jack & Louise Hart)
> 24. 07:34 PM - Re: q (Todd Fredricks)
> 25. 08:00 PM - Re: q & straying off topic) (Charlie England)
> 26. 08:26 PM - Re: q/Cross Country and Highways (bryan green)
> 27. 09:12 PM - Re: q/Cross Country or Follow Roads (Richard Pike)
> 28. 09:20 PM - Re: q/Cross Country and Highways (John Hauck)
> 29. 09:21 PM - Re: q/Cross Country and Highways (possums)
> 30. 09:35 PM - Re: q/Cross Country and Highways (John Hauck)
> 31. 11:16 PM - Re: q/Cross Country or Follow Roads (Kolbdriver)
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 01:50:27 AM PST US
> From: "Rick Pearce" <rap@isp.com>
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Elevator linkage redesign
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Rick Pearce" <rap@isp.com>
>
>
> Looks like Kolb sent me the push tube for the dual control instead of the
> single. My kit is old enough it still has the alum H sections. I could use
> a
> pictue of how the new style trim hooks up since my plans still show a
> cable
> running all the way back to the elevator. If I under stood Travis right
> yesterday the trim now hooks into the elevator horn.
>
>
>> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Rick Pearce" <rap@isp.com>
>>
>> Has the elevator linkage been redesigned from the older Mark 3's? I
> am working off of a old drawing book page 1&2 show rev 0 . I have a new
> fusalage and parts and drawings are not matching.
>> Rick Pearce
>> Do not archive
>>
>>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 05:32:21 AM PST US
> From: "Jeremy Casey" <n79rt@kilocharlie.us>
> Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Grass landing strip question
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jeremy Casey" <n79rt@kilocharlie.us>
>
> Sounds almost identical to my strip...
> http://www.kilocharlie.us/images/briarpatch_large.jpg
>
> Flew a RANS S7 out of it regularly as well as a Challenger 2 ultralight
> (with my 270 lb. brother on several cool mornings...) and a Kolb will
> best both of those birds in the short takeoff department...so no
> problem. Have had 2 different Kolbs land at my strip as well.
>
> That being said, when you do your first flights, go to a longer strip.
> Practice there till you are comfortable with the plane then bring it
> home.
>
> Jeremy Casey
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tenn Metfan [mailto:tnmetfanbeckett@yahoo.com]
> Subject: Kolb-List: Grass landing strip question
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Tenn Metfan <tnmetfanbeckett@yahoo.com>
>
>
> Hello to all on the list,
>
>
> I have read and appreciated all your advice, and banter for over 3
> months now. This is my first "post".
>
>
> I have a real question, but please bear with me while I "indulge" for a
> few moments...
>
>
> I have been smitten with flight since my earliest age. Model planes
> abounded. First "real" flight, was hang gliding (go figure), hours on
> the practice hill were worth that first solo (circa 1987)!! Then, a
> Cessna 152 in 1988 (age 26). Got to solo it too, then found the
> grassroots... Ultra lights. Bought a Sorrell Hyper light. Cute little
> red bi-wing. Taxied it for hours, then, lift off for a quick "round the
> patch" flight. Emergency landing prep in the 152 suddenly became handy.
> On the first downwind leg, engine out (crappy 277 engine)... did all the
> usual stuff, landed safe. Folks on the ground even thought it was
> intentional! Not quite.
>
>
> Well, I began my quest for a homebuilt aircraft in 1994. And my first
> visits to Oshkosh and Lakeland found me adoring the Kolbs. But money was
> tight, so I had to wait... and wait... and wait.
>
>
> Well, here I am, almost 12 years later. 11 Oshkosh visits (never got
> back to Sun'n'fun), and have considered every craft out there. But are
> you surprised to hear, the one that stays at the top of the list, is the
> Kolb? Despite the change of ownership over the years, they still seem to
> maintain impeccable stature in the light plane community.
>
>
> Now, (finally) to my question.
>
>
> After all these years, I think, I can afford a plane. And Kolb, has won
> the vote (want a Mark III X, but think a Fire Star II is best for
> starters). I wanted to have a home-based flight line, hanger, and strip.
> And after years of searching, finally (just) bought 20 acres that I hope
> will house this dream. But though it appears to be adequate for a
> home-based airstrip... I (in my quest for safety) feel I should ask for
> the opinions of those that know best.
>
>
> I will have a 1000' clear strip, with 400' on each end (to clear 50'
> obstacles). Is this enough for practical operations? As I peer out, and
> dream of flights of fancy, can never avoid the thought about safety.
> Guess that first Ultra light flight taught me a lesson!
>
>
> What are your opinions about grass strip lengths (adequate for a Kolb),
> or any other opinions, are all welcome!
>
>
> I plan to be at OSK again this year, in the campground area. Anyone else
> going?
>
>
> Thanks in advance for all your help!
>
>
> Mike Schnabel
>
> Manchester, Tennessee
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 3
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 05:45:03 AM PST US
> From: robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
> Subject: Kolb-List: clinkin n clankin
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
>
> I found an easy method to eliminate the lift strut rattle.
> -with apologies if someone has previously suggested the same thing.
> A generous gob of clear silicone sealer squirted in the wide space
> at the lower attachment then smoothed to shape with a wet finger.
> I fold my wings once per year so pulling it off with a pair of
> needlenose
> pliers shouldn't be much trouble.
> Much nicer taxiing now.
> I've grown fond of those much-maligned aluminum legs, I get a pretty
> good ride on my undulating runway. I have yet to land on real
> pavement but so far a lot easier to plop down than a T-craft with fresh
> bungees.
> -BB
> do not archive
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 4
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 06:07:13 AM PST US
> From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> Subject: Kolb-List: Lift Strut Fitting Mods
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
>
>
> Bob B/Gang:
>
> Had problems with my Ultrastar and Firestar. The holes in the lift
> strut fittings would elongate in a short period of flying. We solved
> the problem on the Firestar when we went from round aluminum lift
> struts to 4130 strealined struts. Brother Jim drilled out the old
> holes to accept bushings cut to fit the slots, top and bottom of the
> lift strut. An AN bolt and nyloc nut with a couple washers snug up
> the fittings to airframe and wing.
>
> Did the same thing for the MKIII. No slop in lift strut fittings in
> well over 2,000 flight hours.
>
> I remember someone on the Kolb List making a comment to the effect
> that since we had made the lift strut connections rigid, we had now
> weakened the system. Hope not. I need those lift struts.
>
> john h
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 5
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 06:13:04 AM PST US
> From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Grass landing strip question
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
>
> Hi All:
>
> Jeremy has a nice airstrip, right in his front yard. Landed there
> many times. Wish I had the same setup.
>
> Gantt International Airport has been in existence since 1984. Started
> out as unimproved 650 ft cow pasture. Only work done to it in the
> beginning was bush hog the grass and weeds. Eventually got around to
> leveling and stretching to 750 ft, if you use every possible inch of
> it. Approaches and departures are complicated with tall trees to the
> north and powerline and bushes on the south. I taught myself to fly
> fixed wing off this strip. Enough room to fly passengers in and out
> of it. Initially, it is intimidating, but gets to feeling normal
> after a landing or two. Best to land north and takeoff south, winds
> permitting.
>
> john h
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 6
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 06:18:23 AM PST US
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Lift Strut Fitting Mods
> From: Todd Fredricks <flyingfox@copper.net>
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Todd Fredricks <flyingfox@copper.net>
>
> That seems worrisome; So you either get flexibility in the system and
> elongation of the holes or you tighten it up and weaken the system?
>
> Surely there is a better engineering solution than that?
>
> Todd
>
>
> On 7/7/05 9:07 AM, "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>>
>>
>> | -BB
>>
>> Bob B/Gang:
>>
>> Had problems with my Ultrastar and Firestar. The holes in the lift
>> strut fittings would elongate in a short period of flying. We solved
>> the problem on the Firestar when we went from round aluminum lift
>> struts to 4130 strealined struts. Brother Jim drilled out the old
>> holes to accept bushings cut to fit the slots, top and bottom of the
>> lift strut. An AN bolt and nyloc nut with a couple washers snug up
>> the fittings to airframe and wing.
>>
>> Did the same thing for the MKIII. No slop in lift strut fittings in
>> well over 2,000 flight hours.
>>
>> I remember someone on the Kolb List making a comment to the effect
>> that since we had made the lift strut connections rigid, we had now
>> weakened the system. Hope not. I need those lift struts.
>>
>> john h
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 7
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 06:33:41 AM PST US
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Grass landing strip question
> From: Todd Fredricks <flyingfox@copper.net>
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Todd Fredricks <flyingfox@copper.net>
>
> Got a picture of it John? Mine is 1000 feet with 70 foot trees on either
> end.
>
> Todd
>
> Reason for selling the 172 as a matter of fact. No matter how much silk I
> pour into it the sow's ear smell will always persist. ;)
>
> I need a Maule but they are wayyyyy too expensive and the Kolbs are
> prettier.
>
> One last thing, which routing did you take north and south when you
> circumnavigated? I am trying to flight plan a trip out to Sacramento and I
> wanted to minimize altitudes across the mountains. Direct takes me up to
> MEAs of 18000' and the old 172 aint gonna git it.
>
>
> On 7/7/05 9:13 AM, "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>>
>> | Sounds almost identical to my strip...
>> | Jeremy Casey
>>
>> Hi All:
>>
>> Jeremy has a nice airstrip, right in his front yard. Landed there
>> many times. Wish I had the same setup.
>>
>> Gantt International Airport has been in existence since 1984. Started
>> out as unimproved 650 ft cow pasture. Only work done to it in the
>> beginning was bush hog the grass and weeds. Eventually got around to
>> leveling and stretching to 750 ft, if you use every possible inch of
>> it. Approaches and departures are complicated with tall trees to the
>> north and powerline and bushes on the south. I taught myself to fly
>> fixed wing off this strip. Enough room to fly passengers in and out
>> of it. Initially, it is intimidating, but gets to feeling normal
>> after a landing or two. Best to land north and takeoff south, winds
>> permitting.
>>
>> john h
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 8
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 06:34:24 AM PST US
> From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Lift Strut Fitting Mods
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
> and
>
>
> Todd/All:
>
> I believe our system of attachment works well. With nearly 2,300
> flight hours on the bushed lift strut fittings there is no slop. They
> are still as snug as they were when we made them.
>
> I don't believe we weakened the system by rigidly attaching the lift
> struts. However, someone else did.
>
> I think the fact that our system has provided excellent service over a
> long period of flight is proof enough for me that we have not weakened
> the system. The individual that made the comment that we had weakened
> the system never provided any substantiating data other than his
> comment that we had gone the wrong way.
>
> My lift struts are absolutely not worrisome to me.
>
> john h
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 9
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 06:57:28 AM PST US
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Lift Strut Fitting Mods
> From: Todd Fredricks <flyingfox@copper.net>
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Todd Fredricks <flyingfox@copper.net>
>
> Did Kolb ever adopt the design? I mean the proof is in the pudding. If
> Miss
> P'Fer can handle the trips she has in the turbulence and other conditions,
> I
> am a believer.
>
>
> On 7/7/05 9:35 AM, "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>>
>> | That seems worrisome; So you either get flexibility in the system
>> and
>>
>>
>> Todd/All:
>>
>> I believe our system of attachment works well. With nearly 2,300
>> flight hours on the bushed lift strut fittings there is no slop. They
>> are still as snug as they were when we made them.
>>
>> I don't believe we weakened the system by rigidly attaching the lift
>> struts. However, someone else did.
>>
>> I think the fact that our system has provided excellent service over a
>> long period of flight is proof enough for me that we have not weakened
>> the system. The individual that made the comment that we had weakened
>> the system never provided any substantiating data other than his
>> comment that we had gone the wrong way.
>>
>> My lift struts are absolutely not worrisome to me.
>>
>> john h
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 10
> ____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 07:03:13 AM PST US
> From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Grass landing strip question
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
> either
>
> Todd/All:
>
> Yes, I have a photo of my airstrip, but don't have time to post it
> now.
>
> I would not be comfortable flying out of a 1,000 ft strip with 70 ft
> trees on each end. My strip has trees on the north end, but far
> enough from the threshold to allow me to make a 90 degree turn before
> I reach them.
>
> I generally fly where I want to. John W and I have crossed the
> Rockies many times. Max altitude required to get across the Sierra
> Nevadas was 14,500 ft. If you don't want to go over, pick the nearest
> pass.
>
> Gary Haley flew the pass from Reno west along I-80 a month ago. I
> flew south along US-395.
>
> john h
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 11
> ____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 08:08:11 AM PST US
> Subject: Kolb-List: Landing gear
> From: Dwight.Kottke@hti.htch.com
> 10:06:45 AM,
> Serialize complete at 07/07/2005 10:06:45 AM,
> Itemize by SMTP Server on HUDOMGW1/HTI(Release 6.5.4|March 27,
> 2005) at
> 07/07/2005
> 10:07:17 AM,
> Serialize by Router on HUDOMGW1/HTI(Release 6.5.4|March 27, 2005)
> at 07/07/2005
> 10:07:21 AM,
> Serialize complete at 07/07/2005 10:07:21 AM
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Dwight.Kottke@hti.htch.com
>
> Captain John H./others:
> I previously reported hard landing my Firestar and bending up my leg
> sockets. I am nearing completion of that project and I am thinking of
> switching to steel legs. I have two questions ya'll.
>
> 1. How did you transition the steel legs to the Kolb axle assembly?
> 2. Removing the old aluminium legs from the steel socket can be a real
> pain in the glutious maximus. Putting a steel leg into a steel socket
> could be worst. Are you plating or painting the legs after heat treating
> for easy removal?
>
> Dwight Kottke
> The Flying (repairing) Farmer
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 12
> ____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 12:10:23 PM PST US
> From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Landing gear
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
> assembly?
>
> Hi Dwight/All:
>
> Must have me mixed up with someone else. I am just plain ole John H.
> The rank part was dropped 25.5 years ago when I retired and put on
> civvies. ;-)
>
> To answer your questions:
>
> 1-Fabricated gear leg/axle sockets to fit the new gear legs.
>
> 2-4130 rust by quickly glancing at it. I prep with phosphoric acid
> etch, diluted to what ever is on the jug. Prime with epoxy primer,
> then shoot the finish coat. May have to hold off on finish paint on
> that part of the leg that is inserted into the socket. No problem on
> removing gear legs later on down the road.
>
> I cut my legs for the original Firestar to 35.5", shoving them all the
> way into the socket until they hit bottom (at the intersection of the
> two sockets). I believe the factory is still cutting them to fit
> halfway into the socket which automatically turns them into a shear on
> extremely hard landings or crashes.
>
> Make the gear leg/axle sockets stout. That is what failed on my MKIII
> 5 years ago at Muncho Lake, BC, but only after many, many hard, heavy,
> club fisted landings.
>
> Need more info, just holler.
>
> john h
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 13
> ____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 02:39:29 PM PST US
> From: russ kinne <kinnepix@earthlink.net>
> Subject: Kolb-List: q
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: russ kinne <kinnepix@earthlink.net>
>
> `For those Kolbers planning XC trips across mountain areas -- try
> using a road map for route planning!
> The 4-lane builders will have picked the lowest suitable pass and
> that's what you want too. Also, you'll have a hundred-mile runway
> beneath you 'just in case'. Works for me.
> Russ Kinne
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 14
> ____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 03:09:28 PM PST US
> From: "John Williamson" <kolbrapilot2@comcast.net>
> Subject: RE: Kolb-List: q
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Williamson"
> <kolbrapilot2@comcast.net>
>
> Russ and all,
>
> If you follow the roads, you might as well just drive.
>
> Airplanes were made to go where the roads don't.
>
>
> John W.
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 15
> ____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 03:24:30 PM PST US
> Subject: RE: Kolb-List: q
> From: "Robert Laird" <rlaird@cavediver.com>
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Robert Laird" <rlaird@cavediver.com>
>
>
>> Russ and all,
>>
>> If you follow the roads, you might as well just drive.
>> Airplanes were made to go where the roads don't.
>
> Ah! Spoken by someone who has a 912ULS pushing them around the air
> column! <g>
>
> Methinks that Russ was referring to novice-XC-over-mountains fliers, and
> maybe
> especially those with less reliable powerplants.
>
> But, it's an interesting question that I'd love to hear from everyone
> about: do
> you fly IFR (I-Follow-Roads) when doing XC's, or do you just tear off into
> the
> unknown, over piney forest, craggy mountains, grizzly-den'd wilderness,
> endless
> desert, vast inland seas, alligator-infested swamp, or do you wimp-out/be
> sensible (take your pick) and follow more forgiving terrain that would, in
> your
> judgement, provide a more hospitable landing-out and/or proximity to
> recovery
> resources?
>
> -- Robert
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 16
> ____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 03:58:39 PM PST US
> From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: q/Cross Country or Follow Roads
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
> column! <g>
>
> Robert L/Gang:
>
> The 912UL and 912ULS added a tremendous amount of reliability to our
> sport. Couple those engines with a good ole Kolb airplane and one is
> almost unlimited where they can fly safely.
>
> Two stroke days, one would have a hard time convincing me to fly any
> where I could not make a good forced landing area. Throughout all the
> engine failures with the two strokes, I was always where I needed to
> be to make a good forced landing, except a couple times. Then.......I
> was able to get a restart shortly before crash time. BTW only had one
> two stroke forced landing that was caused by catastrophic engine
> failure. The rest were fouled plugs, fuel filters, spark plug wire
> disconnecting in flight from an inverted Cuyuna, aircleaner going
> through a wooden prop, etc.
>
> The aircraft commander/pilot in command is the one that makes the
> ultimate decision on where the airplane flies. When I make a decision
> to fly over terrain that is not suitable for a successful forced
> landing or water, I am agreeing to accept the results should the motor
> decide to stop. As a back up I have a BRS ballistic parachute that
> might be a good idea is it looks like I am going to have to try and
> land in tall trees, rocky terrain, glaciers with big holes in them,
> etc.
>
> For the most part, we fly cross country, if we can not go through it
> or over it, then I will follow what ever is necessary to make a good
> flight and keep the aircraft commander happy. ;-)
>
> Take care,
>
> john h
> hauck's holler, alabama
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 17
> ____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 03:59:45 PM PST US
> From: ray anderson <rsanoa@yahoo.com>
> Subject: RE: Kolb-List: q
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: ray anderson <rsanoa@yahoo.com>
>
> Russ,
> Famous LAST words of scores of late departed dumb pilots.
>
> John Williamson <kolbrapilot2@comcast.net> wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Williamson"
>
> Russ and all,
>
> If you follow the roads, you might as well just drive.
>
> Airplanes were made to go where the roads don't.
>
>
> John W.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Have fun online with music videos, cool games, IM & more. Check it out!
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 18
> ____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 04:07:06 PM PST US
> From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: q/Cross Country and Following Roads
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
>
> Russ K/Gang:
>
> Well, almost the lowest suitable pass.
>
> Learned on my first flight to Alaska, 1994, from local bush pilots,
> when the ceiling comes down:
>
> 1-Follow the road. If that does not work..........
>
> 2-Follow the rail road. If that does not work...........
>
> 3-Follow the river.............This is the lowest suitable terrain,
> followed by the rail roads, then the highway passes.
>
> I have done all of the above during my short period of flying in
> Canada and Alaska. Watch out for cables strung across the rivers and
> creeks though. Folks in the Far North are famous for stringing them
> up for trolleys to get across the river. Most are not on the
> Sectionals. Even if they were, you will be so busy flying and
> maintaining terrain clearance you will not have time to look at a
> Sectional.
>
> john h
> hauck's holler, alabama
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 19
> ____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 04:18:26 PM PST US
> From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: q/Cross Country and Highways
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
>
>
> Ray A/Gang:
>
> Please qualify the statement you made, above, about "dumb pilots"?
>
> From down here in Alabama looks like you are putting every pilot that
> flies over inhospitable terrain in the "dumb pilot" category? Is my
> assumption correct?
>
> john h
> hauck's holler, alabama
>
> PS: I took the liberty to change the subject line a little. At first
> I was not going to have this one put in the archives, but after a
> second thought, it probably has a place in there for future reference
> for those contemplating committing cross country flight in their Kolb.
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 20
> ____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 05:17:38 PM PST US
> From: ray anderson <rsanoa@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: q/Cross Country and Highways
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: ray anderson <rsanoa@yahoo.com>
>
> To all,
> I have flown as much as anybody in "straight line" cross country
> since
> 1935, but in aircraft capable of crossing inhospitable terrain safely ,ie,
> proven
> engines with power to handle the situation. Most likely a certified
> aircraft
> engine in good condition. My reference to late departed dumb pilots were
> those and those now living who are not smart enough (dumb) to educate
> themselves
> in what is required to do "straight" line flying safely. There are
> hundreds
> and hundreds of new, low time, unprepared pilots with unreliable two cycle
> engines
> and marginal aircraft out there who are not ready for such, and when one
> gets into trouble, we all suffer.
> < Airplanes were made to go where the roads don't.>
> In my humble opinion, a statement like that, even in jest, might encourage
> a beginner
> to want to show he's cool and macho and strike out across deadly terrain
> before he's ready in experience and equipment. There's nothing wimpy in
> using
> common sense where called for. Nothing cool and macho in tempting fate
> either
> under some circumstances. What's that old statement, something like this.
> 'There's lot's of bold pilots but not many old bold pilots'.
> In the case of my statement, it's a case of where the shoe fits.
>
>
> John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck"
>
>
>
> Ray A/Gang:
>
> Please qualify the statement you made, above, about "dumb pilots"?
>
> From down here in Alabama looks like you are putting every pilot that
> flies over inhospitable terrain in the "dumb pilot" category? Is my
> assumption correct?
>
> john h
> hauck's holler, alabama
>
> PS: I took the liberty to change the subject line a little. At first
> I was not going to have this one put in the archives, but after a
> second thought, it probably has a place in there for future reference
> for those contemplating committing cross country flight in their Kolb.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 21
> ____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 05:47:16 PM PST US
> From: robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: q/Cross Country and Highways
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
>
> I tend to ascribe to Ray's views. The worser it gets below the higher
> I fly.
> If I can't swim to shore (500' max) I don't go over it.
> Even with a genyoowine certified airplane and engine I won't fly single
> engine at night. Those lights in the nose or wing only light up what's
> ahead, not what's below. If it CAN quit, it WILL quit.
> But then again sitting at home on the couch won't cut it either.
> -BB do not archive
> On 7, Jul 2005, at 8:17 PM, ray anderson wrote:
>
>> --> Kolb-List message posted by: ray anderson <rsanoa@yahoo.com>
>>
>> To all,
>> I have flown as much as anybody in "straight line" cross
>> country since 1935, but in aircraft capable of crossing inhospitable
>> terrain safely ,ie, proven engines with power to handle the situation.
>> Most likely a certified aircraft engine in good condition. My
>> reference to late departed dumb pilots were those and those now living
>> who are not smart enough (dumb) to educate themselves in what is
>> required to do "straight" line flying safely. There are hundreds and
>> hundreds of new, low time, unprepared pilots with unreliable two cycle
>> engines and marginal aircraft out there who are not ready for such,
>> and when one gets into trouble, we all suffer.
>> < Airplanes were made to go where the roads don't.>
>> In my humble opinion, a statement like that, even in jest, might
>> encourage a beginner to want to show he's cool and macho and strike
>> out across deadly terrain before he's ready in experience and
>> equipment. There's nothing wimpy in using common sense where called
>> for. Nothing cool and macho in tempting fate either under some
>> circumstances. What's that old statement, something like this.
>> 'There's lot's of bold pilots but not many old bold pilots'.
>> In the case of my statement, it's a case of where the shoe fits.
>>
>>
>> John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
>> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck"
>>
>>
>>
>> Ray A/Gang:
>>
>> Please qualify the statement you made, above, about "dumb pilots"?
>>
>> From down here in Alabama looks like you are putting every pilot that
>> flies over inhospitable terrain in the "dumb pilot" category? Is my
>> assumption correct?
>>
>> john h
>> hauck's holler, alabama
>>
>> PS: I took the liberty to change the subject line a little. At first
>> I was not going to have this one put in the archives, but after a
>> second thought, it probably has a place in there for future reference
>> for those contemplating committing cross country flight in their Kolb.
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------
>>
>>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 22
> ____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 05:52:25 PM PST US
> From: " Vince Nicely" <vincenic@xtn.net>
> Subject: Kolb-List: Cross Country Routes
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: " Vince Nicely" <vincenic@xtn.net>
>
> Robert and all,
>
> I changed the title:
>
>> But, it's an interesting question that I'd love to hear from everyone
> about: do you fly IFR (I-Follow-Roads) when doing XC's, or do you just
> tear
> off into the unknown, over piney forest, craggy mountains, grizzly-den'd
> wilderness, endless desert, vast inland seas, alligator-infested swamp, or
> do you wimp-out/be sensible (take your pick) and follow more forgiving
> terrain that would, in your judgement, provide a more hospitable
> landing-out
> and/or proximity to recovery resources?
>>
> I am usually flying in the E. Tennessee, SW Virginia, W. Kentucky, W. Va.
> and W North Carolina area when I cross country. The mountains are
> forested
> and can have long stretches with few landing areas. I have helped search
> for downed planes, and they can be extremely hard to find, especially when
> the leaves are on the trees. I often choose the IFR cross country routes
> for the reasons you state, and sometimes choose to fly with sufficient
> altitude to give me a long glide, if needed.
>
> Vince Nicely
> Firestar II
> Do not archive
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 23
> ____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 06:40:03 PM PST US
> From: Jack & Louise Hart <jbhart@ldd.net>
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Cross Country Routes
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Jack & Louise Hart <jbhart@ldd.net>
>
> At 08:49 PM 7/7/05 -0400, you wrote:
>>--> Kolb-List message posted by: " Vince Nicely" <vincenic@xtn.net>
>>
>>Robert and all,
>>
>>I changed the title:
>>
>
> A word from the "five gallon" club. If you are going to go some where,
> often times you have to fly over rough country, and it is imperative to
> fly
> the shortest distance to stretch the fuel. By cruising at 3,000 feet agl,
> the FireFly will glide about three miles with the engine off.
>
> From ferrying the FireFly, I found the biggest problem is running into
> unexpected wind conditions, from which you could run out of fuel before
> reaching your expected destination. The safety net is the gps and a timer
> on the stick. I start the timer at lift off and I watch the gps reading
> for
> expected flight time to arrive at the next gas stop. If the stick timer
> and
> expected flight time added together exceed my fuel capacity burn time, I
> have to divert. I punch up the nearest way points starting with the ones
> closest to my destination. If the sum total of stick timer and expected
> flight time fall with in limits, I continue on. If not I bump to the next
> less desirable destination and try again. This works well in the midwest
> because just about every county has an airport so that the next nearest
> airport is about thirty miles away.
>
> I learned this process while trying to fly from Perryville to Painton,
> Missouri to my EAA Chapter 453 meetings. Two or three times, I had to
> turn
> around because I did not have enough fuel to fly 54 miles.
>
> Jack B. Hart FF004
> Winchester, IN
>
>
> Jack & Louise Hart
> jbhart@ldd.net
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 24
> ____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 07:34:35 PM PST US
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: q
> From: Todd Fredricks <flyingfox@copper.net>
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Todd Fredricks <flyingfox@copper.net>
>
> If I might chime in on this thread; one of the reasons why I don't own a
> Rockwell Commander or something 'faster' and I chose a 172 but want to
> sell
> it and buy a Kolb is because I realized that after flying Caravans and
> Beech
> 1900s that I will never own anything which can compete with what I can buy
> a
> $250.00 ticket to fly on if what I want is fast.
>
> So if that is the case and I still want to engage in my passion of flying
> across the land, then I bettered go the route of the 'safest' airplane I
> can
> find. Since spec made airplanes don't routinely shed parts and engine
> failures and fuel exhaustion are the biggest worries, I determined that
> the
> shortest I could land safely the better. Helios are way out of my price
> range and they lack the visibility I want. Can't afford maintenance on an
> OH-6 and I prefer airplanes anyway. So in the end I want something that if
> the need arises can land in a football field. I can consistently get the
> 172
> down and stopped in 3-400 feet of runway.
>
> As long as you are not pushing the single engine night issue, a 3-400 foot
> stopping distance affords you a lot of options. So that said, and aside
> from
> ideas of crossing the Everglades single engine (I would opt out on that
> one)
> I think the best planes for tearing off into the unknown or wilderness are
> small single high lift airplanes that are carrying a good pack for
> contingencies. I don't fear deserts or grizzly's as long as I have thought
> through the possibilities before hand and as has been said before, Fly a
> Cub
> or Kolb or T-craft along the interstates and minimize your time over the
> crags and you really are picking the widest margin for the greatest
> utility
> and fun.
>
> For the Everglades, I think I would pick and AirCam, but at $80K that's a
> bit beyond me.
>
> Todd
>
>
> On 7/7/05 6:20 PM, "Robert Laird" <rlaird@cavediver.com> wrote:
>
>> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Robert Laird" <rlaird@cavediver.com>
>>
>>
>>> Russ and all,
>>>
>>> If you follow the roads, you might as well just drive.
>>> Airplanes were made to go where the roads don't.
>>
>> Ah! Spoken by someone who has a 912ULS pushing them around the air
>> column!
>> <g>
>>
>> Methinks that Russ was referring to novice-XC-over-mountains fliers, and
>> maybe
>> especially those with less reliable powerplants.
>>
>> But, it's an interesting question that I'd love to hear from everyone
>> about:
>> do you fly IFR (I-Follow-Roads) when doing XC's, or do you just tear off
>> into
>> the unknown, over piney forest, craggy mountains, grizzly-den'd
>> wilderness,
>> endless desert, vast inland seas, alligator-infested swamp, or do you
>> wimp-out/be sensible (take your pick) and follow more forgiving terrain
>> that
>> would, in your judgement, provide a more hospitable landing-out and/or
>> proximity to recovery resources?
>>
>> -- Robert
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 25
> ____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 08:00:51 PM PST US
> From: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: q & straying off topic)
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
>
> Todd Fredricks wrote:
>
>>--> Kolb-List message posted by: Todd Fredricks <flyingfox@copper.net>
>>
>>If I might chime in on this thread; one of the reasons why I don't own a
>>Rockwell Commander or something 'faster' and I chose a 172 but want to
>>sell
>>it and buy a Kolb is because I realized that after flying Caravans and
>>Beech
>>1900s that I will never own anything which can compete with what I can buy
>>a
>>$250.00 ticket to fly on if what I want is fast.
>>
>>So if that is the case and I still want to engage in my passion of flying
>>across the land, then I bettered go the route of the 'safest' airplane I
>>can
>>find. Since spec made airplanes don't routinely shed parts and engine
>>failures and fuel exhaustion are the biggest worries, I determined that
>>the
>>shortest I could land safely the better. Helios are way out of my price
>>range and they lack the visibility I want. Can't afford maintenance on an
>>OH-6 and I prefer airplanes anyway. So in the end I want something that if
>>the need arises can land in a football field. I can consistently get the
>>172
>>down and stopped in 3-400 feet of runway.
>>
>>As long as you are not pushing the single engine night issue, a 3-400 foot
>>stopping distance affords you a lot of options. So that said, and aside
>>from
>>ideas of crossing the Everglades single engine (I would opt out on that
>>one)
>>I think the best planes for tearing off into the unknown or wilderness are
>>small single high lift airplanes that are carrying a good pack for
>>contingencies. I don't fear deserts or grizzly's as long as I have thought
>>through the possibilities before hand and as has been said before, Fly a
>>Cub
>>or Kolb or T-craft along the interstates and minimize your time over the
>>crags and you really are picking the widest margin for the greatest
>>utility
>>and fun.
>>
>>For the Everglades, I think I would pick and AirCam, but at $80K that's a
>>bit beyond me.
>>
>>Todd
>>
> A little good natured disagreement (only with your 1st paragraph):
>
> One of the reasons I bought something 'faster' was to easily beat the
> airlines. Pick any pair of non-hub cities less than 1000 miles apart &
> I'll bet I can beat the airlines, actual origin to actual destination,
> (not loading ramps) about 80-90% of the time & I don't have to put up
> with some minimum wage felon getting paid a federal executive's salary
> telling me to bend over so he can inspect my orifices. Living in a
> non-hub city means $250 tickets are rare as hen's teeth, as well.
>
> To top it off, I've only seen one airliner get upside down & I get to do
> it just about any time the mood strikes during a trip. :-)
>
> BTW, the Aircam truly deserves an 'awesome ride' label. I had the
> intense pleasure of flying around about 20' above the MS River for about
> 40 minutes a few years ago & never had to worry about getting wet. 2
> rotax 912S's on an 'ultralite'! Single engine? No problem. Helicopter
> performance? Pretty close. What a blast!
>
> Charlie
> Flying RV-4, wishing for a Kolb for after-supper flying
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 26
> ____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 08:26:56 PM PST US
> From: bryan green <lgreen1@sc.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: q/Cross Country and Highways
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: bryan green <lgreen1@sc.rr.com>
>
> Life shouldn't be a journey to the grave with the
> intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well
> preserved body, but rather, to skid in broadside,
> thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly shouting ...
> WOW! What a ride! Thank you Lord!!!
>
> Bryan Green Elgin SC
> Do not archive
>
>
> ray anderson wrote:
>
>>--> Kolb-List message posted by: ray anderson <rsanoa@yahoo.com>
>>
>>To all,
>>
>>In my humble opinion, a statement like that, even in jest, might encourage
>>a beginner
> to want to show he's cool and macho and strike out across deadly terrain
> before he's ready in experience and equipment. There's nothing wimpy in
> using
> common sense where called for. Nothing cool and macho in tempting fate
> either
> under some circumstances. What's that old statement, something like this.
> 'There's lot's of bold pilots but not many old bold pilots'.
>>In the case of my statement, it's a case of where the shoe fits.
>>
>>
>>John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
>>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck"
>>
>>
>>| --> Kolb-List message posted by: ray anderson
>>|
>>| Russ,
>>| Famous LAST words of scores of late departed dumb pilots.
>>
>>Ray A/Gang:
>>
>>Please qualify the statement you made, above, about "dumb pilots"?
>>
>>>From down here in Alabama looks like you are putting every pilot that
>>flies over inhospitable terrain in the "dumb pilot" category? Is my
>>assumption correct?
>>
>>john h
>>hauck's holler, alabama
>>
>>PS: I took the liberty to change the subject line a little. At first
>>I was not going to have this one put in the archives, but after a
>>second thought, it probably has a place in there for future reference
>>for those contemplating committing cross country flight in their Kolb.
>>
>>
>>
>>---------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 27
> ____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 09:12:03 PM PST US
> From: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: q/Cross Country or Follow Roads
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
>
> You bring up a good point, in your category of "all the rest," it includes
> all the sort of things we all did wrong back when we were first getting
> started. (Guess how I know this?) I wonder if a lot of so-called "two
> stroke problems" are the result of the way most of us tend to do things
> when we are new at the game?
>
> Something I have often noticed as the chapter technical counselor is that
> the 912 engine tends to get installed in - for lack of a better phrase -
> traditional aircraft fashion. Which means in a very neat, well thought out
> and reliable fashion. Likewise, the people who install them tend to know
> what they are doing, and use pretty much standard, traditional aircraft
> practice in how they do things. Which means taking great pains to makes
> sure it won't break, fall off, or be a "Mickey Mouse rig."
>
> On the other hand, I suppose all of us have seen two stroke engines on
> aircraft that look like they came off a five year old dirt bike, complete
> with frayed wires, loose throttle cables, etc. Or else a brand new
> installation where the builder could obviously have benefited from not
> trying to reinvent the wheel, but just asked some old timers for advice,
> and come up with a better installation. Occasionally that doesn't help, I
> have seen beautiful two stroke installations where the stupid engine just
> blew up (Right, Steve?)
>
> Obviously the 912 is way ahead of any of it's competition, but I wonder
> how
> many two stroke engines fail, when that failure could be avoided by better
> installation techniques? Food for thought... especially when you are
> flying
> home over the best available forced landing areas...
>
> do not archive
>
> Richard Pike
> MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
>
>
> At 05:58 PM 7/7/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>
>>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>>
>>Robert L/Gang:
>>
>>The 912UL and 912ULS added a tremendous amount of reliability to our
>>sport. Couple those engines with a good ole Kolb airplane and one is
>>almost unlimited where they can fly safely.
>>
>>Two stroke days, one would have a hard time convincing me to fly any
>>where I could not make a good forced landing area. Throughout all the
>>engine failures with the two strokes, I was always where I needed to
>>be to make a good forced landing, except a couple times. Then.......I
>>was able to get a restart shortly before crash time. BTW only had one
>>two stroke forced landing that was caused by catastrophic engine
>>failure. The rest were fouled plugs, fuel filters, spark plug wire
>>disconnecting in flight from an inverted Cuyuna, aircleaner going
>>through a wooden prop, etc.
>><snip>
>>Take care,
>>
>>john h
>>hauck's holler, alabama
>>
>>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 28
> ____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 09:20:06 PM PST US
> From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: q/Cross Country and Highways
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
>
> My reference to late departed dumb pilots were those and those now
> living who are not smart enough (dumb) to educate themselves in what
> is required to do "straight" line flying safely.
>
> Hi Ray A/Gang:
>
> Guess I know what category I fall into. ;-)
>
> I love to get in my little airplane and go exploring. Some of the
> best was experienced during the 15 day flight in May. I flew along
> side a two stroke powered Firefly over terrain that made my knees weak
> flying in a very reliable 4 stroke. Was a truly exciting two hour
> flight over the Canyonlands National Park, Utah.
>
> There is a certain amount of risk in most everything we do. I am
> somewhat of an adrenalin junky. Always have been as long as I can
> remember. That is why I have hobbies like flying, riding dirt bikes,
> mountain biking, big old heavy powerful antique tractors. All that
> machinery makes my heart race and fills me with excitement. I can see
> my demise from a broken neck as the result of a fall while getting up
> in the dark and trying to find a place to take a leak while on a very
> long cross country flight in my little MKIII. hehehe
>
> BTW: The saying you were trying to remember goes:
>
> There are old pilots and bold pilots,
> But no old, bold pilots.
>
> Correct me if I am wrong, but that is the way I remember hearing it.
>
> I don't think what John W or I say on this List will influence anyone,
> one way or the other to head out over the Pocanos or the Brooks Range
> in a two stroke powered Firestar unprepared. Maybe we can plant a
> seed that will sprout and they, the young, inexperienced pilots, will
> be able to adequately prepare for and execute some truly exciting
> cross country flights, not necessarily in a straight line either.
> Straight lines can be very boring.
>
> Take care,
>
> john h
>
> PS: However, I have flown the Pocanos twice in my 447 two stroke
> powered original Firestar, 1988 and 1989. Also the Blue Ridge,
> Appalacians, the mountains in North Alabama, Tennessee, Arkansas, NE
> Texas, West Virginia, Pennsylvania, and a few others I can not
> remember right now. Did a lot of those same mountains in a two stroke
> powered MKIII that has been 4 stroke powered since 1994. Could not
> have done it if I had not pushed the throttle forward and pointed the
> nose the direction I wanted to go. Never had any idea I could fly all
> the way to New York State in 1988, until I did it. If I had not taken
> a chance, I would still be sitting here at hauck's holler wishing I
> had. Got an old friend told me about 5 years ago that a lot of men
> die never realizing their dreams. My old friend convinced me to make
> a second attempt to fly to Point Barrow, Alaska in a span of one year.
> Sure am glad I did. Thanks Grey Baron.
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 29
> ____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 09:21:24 PM PST US
> From: possums <possums@mindspring.com>
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: q/Cross Country and Highways
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: possums <possums@mindspring.com>
>
> At 11:26 PM 7/7/2005, you wrote:
>>--> Kolb-List message posted by: bryan green <lgreen1@sc.rr.com>
>>
>>Life shouldn't be a journey to the grave with the
>>intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well
>>preserved body, but rather, to skid in broadside,
>>thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly shouting ...
>>WOW! What a ride! Thank you Lord!!!
>>
>>Bryan Green Elgin SC
>
> I agree ...some times I fly 10 feet above the Etowah river (in my
> case) for five miles, knowing that if
> my engine stops I'm going in the water - again.....but, with the
> knowledge that after 642 hours on
> my 503 - the odds are slim that - "that 10 minutes" will be the time
> that the engine decides to seize.
> And WOW what a ride/adrenaline rush it is! And if it does - I've
> been there before and it didn't kill me
> last time. Besides, it makes great videos.
> http://www.mindspring.com/~possums/Submarine.jpg
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 30
> ____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 09:35:37 PM PST US
> From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: q/Cross Country and Highways
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
>
>
> Stan:
>
> I think you could have made it if you had just pushed the glide a
> little bit further...........
>
> john h
> hauck's holler, alabama
>
> PS: Go for the island. I made Grand Island, NY, June 1988. Too bad
> I broke my airplane when I hit the ground, but better than the Niagra
> River or Niagra Falls, which I had been circling 5 minutes prior. ;-(
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 31
> ____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 11:16:53 PM PST US
> From: "Kolbdriver" <Kolbdriver@bellsouth.net>
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: q/Cross Country or Follow Roads
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kolbdriver" <Kolbdriver@bellsouth.net>
>
> Richard,
> I don't know about the beautiful installation, BUT THE STUPID THING DID
> JUST
> BLOW UP. And while I was over Tellico lake at that. (guess I'm the dumb
> one :~).
> Steven
>
> do not archive
>
> Occasionally that doesn't help, I
>> have seen beautiful two stroke installations where the stupid engine just
>> blew up (Right, Steve?)
>>
>>
>> do not archive
>>
>> Richard Pike
>> MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
>>
>>
>> At 05:58 PM 7/7/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>>
>> >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>> >
>> >Robert L/Gang:
>> >
>> >The 912UL and 912ULS added a tremendous amount of reliability to our
>> >sport. Couple those engines with a good ole Kolb airplane and one is
>> >almost unlimited where they can fly safely.
>> >
>> >Two stroke days, one would have a hard time convincing me to fly any
>> >where I could not make a good forced landing area. Throughout all the
>> >engine failures with the two strokes, I was always where I needed to
>> >be to make a good forced landing, except a couple times. Then.......I
>> >was able to get a restart shortly before crash time. BTW only had one
>> >two stroke forced landing that was caused by catastrophic engine
>> >failure. The rest were fouled plugs, fuel filters, spark plug wire
>> >disconnecting in flight from an inverted Cuyuna, aircleaner going
>> >through a wooden prop, etc.
>> ><snip>
>> >Take care,
>> >
>> >john h
>> >hauck's holler, alabama
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | RE : Cross country or follow roads |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Edward Steuber" <esteuber@rochester.rr.com>
All,
The idea that some people are safer because they think a certain way has
always irritated me . Flying attracted me as a kid because of the freedom it
provides in making decisions. ...Now , that is provided you don't have a passenger
that you are responsible for and are making decisions for them ..then it
is a whole new ball game.
Flying is a calculated risk...If you're too busy worrying about getting
hurt or scratching the paint, then stay on the ground...Some of the" best " flying
experiences I have had started with engine outs or wrecks.... on the other
hand , just being a crop duster puts me in a different category... I once had
an old spray pilot tell me that the prerequisit for becoming a crop duster
is being stupid.....but if you start out smart the chemicals will give you a labotamy
over time anyway...BUT I AM STILL HERE !.....love my Ultrastar and the
suicide Cuyuna...
Everybody has a different level of comfort. That same old cropduster told
me how to know when to pull up at a tree line....and I quote...................
UNTIL YOU JUST CAN"T STAND IT ANYMORE !
So , do what is comfortable for you until you just can't stand it anymore..........
as long as you aren't going to hurt anybody else ...
If I ever get too old to fly , I won't be thinking about anything I wished
I had done...except flying the Ultrastar to the North Pole with John Hauck
on his next trip .....
Gotta go back to work...
ED in Western
NY
do not archive
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Kolb-List message posted by: N27SB@aol.com
To All, I know that this question has come up before and there is quite a
bit in the archives but what is the current thought on when or if to Decarbon a
447?
My temps are great the 447 runs smooth powerful.
Steve
FF#007
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: RE : Cross country or follow roads |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
stand it anymore.......... as long as you aren't going to hurt anybody
else ...
| If I ever get too old to fly , I won't be thinking about
anything I wished I had done...except flying the Ultrastar to the
North Pole with John Hauck on his next trip .....
| Gotta go back to work...
|
ED in Western NY
|
Morning Ed/All:
Wished I could have said it that way.
I'm getting older and may need some help on my next flight to Alaska.
Would be great to look out and see you in the Ultrastar, Cuyuna and
all, flying my wing. ;-)
john h (Planning next flight, with the boys, to OSH via Sault Saint
Marie, MI, and the UP)
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Decarbon 447 |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
quite a
| bit in the archives but what is the current thought on when or if to
Decarbon a
| 447?
| My temps are great the 447 runs smooth powerful.
|
| Steve
| FF#007
Steve/Gang:
I don't know what the current thought is on your question, but I
always ran them hard with the prop properly loaded and Marvel Mystery
Oil at the recommended ratio in the gas tank for my Cuyuna, my two
447's, and 582. Did not do decarbons on any of them until they got
sick and needed to be torn down. Back then we were running with caged
wrist pin bearings which failed pretty early on in the engines life,
like a couple hundred hours or so. Flew back from Lakeland to Gantt
IAP, Alabama, in 1989, with a sick engine. Would not develop full
power but still kicked the Firestar along at a good click. Fuel
consumption wasn't bad so I flew the entire trip. Next day torn the
engine down. There were needles stuck in the top of both pistons
caused by the wrist pin failure in the PTO piston. Really made me
proud of the old 447. Figured I would have lost the engine, but she
kept on turning. Some are going to wonder how the needles got from
the bad piston to the good piston. I reckon they were transferred
through the intake or exhaust ports, because the crankcase is sealed
between the two cylinders.
Enough reminiscing.
john h
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Decarbon 447 |
07:40:29 AM,
Serialize complete at 07/08/2005 07:40:29 AM,
Itemize by SMTP Server on HUDOMGW1/HTI(Release 6.5.4|March 27, 2005) at
07/08/2005
07:41:01 AM,
Serialize by Router on HUDOMGW1/HTI(Release 6.5.4|March 27, 2005) at 07/08/2005
07:41:03 AM,
Serialize complete at 07/08/2005 07:41:03 AM
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Dwight.Kottke@hti.htch.com
Steve, I have tried to reach you off of the list without success. I am
the guy interested in buying your BRS chute. Please e-mail me direct at:
dwight.kottke@hti.htch.com
Or call me at 320-587-1464
My apologies to list.
P.S. Thank you to Sargent John Hauck for the info on gear legs.
The Flying and Fixing Farmer
do not archive
N27SB@aol.com
Sent by: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
07/08/2005 07:02 AM
Please respond to
kolb-list@matronics.com
To
kolb-list@matronics.com
cc
Subject
Kolb-List: Decarbon 447
--> Kolb-List message posted by: N27SB@aol.com
To All, I know that this question has come up before and there is quite a
bit in the archives but what is the current thought on when or if to
Decarbon a
447?
My temps are great the 447 runs smooth powerful.
Steve
FF#007
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: q & straying off topic) |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Todd Fredricks <flyingfox@copper.net>
I suppose that I should qualify that. I haven't flown an RV-4 but I did fly
an RV-7 for a bit and for my tastes it wasn't as fun cross-country as I
would have liked. I guess I Have grown soft flying my buddies 182 and like
it's mushiness cross country. The RV-7's roll rate was too high for me to
like it on an ILS.
I am with you all the way on the utility of cross country. I have frequently
called the 172 a "750NM" airplane in that I can beat any commercial trip of
750NM or less by flying myself, precisely because I live 1.5 hours from any
big hub and by the time I figure in drive, TSA delays and the flight, I can
easily hop into the Skyhawk and be there. The biggest issue that I have had
is living in the Eastern Part of Ohio the winters are full of ice and the
summers are full of thunderstorms and most of my business takes me to the
NorthEast which gets even worse. With a demanding civilian job schedule I
can never budget a "slop" day on either end to avail for weather, not to
mention the horrific expense of a strikefinder and NEXRAD, so I end up
commercial.
BUT
Because those morons strip-searched myself and my decorated full colonel
friend on our way back from Iraq (and we were in uniform with orders) I do
everything I can to avoid the TSA. I was livid when they did that. I was
about 6 days removed from carrying a machine gun and all manner of knives
and some dude felt compelled to protect the Union from a 6 foot 3 inch
German-Swede American wearing DCUs with an American Flag on them and a
combat service patch from Iraq. It was at that point that I destined that
unless it was over 1000 miles of driving I would never opt for commercial
again. So far I have kept my promise and that was two years and 7 trips ago.
Unfortunately, my family lives in California so I am still forced to fly
across in a jet...at least until the wife agrees to the motor home and I am
semi-retired enough to take off for three weeks in my Mark IIIX :)
Now if Kolb would just build a Twin like the AirCam, I will have reached
Nirvana.
I flew the 'Cam for about 1/2 and hour one year at Sun and Fun and it was
the nicest feeling being able to shut an engine down and motor
along...or...fly 100 feet AGL and not worry a jot. Someday.
By the way, did you see Garmin's 396 with NEXRAD? A portable GPS with
Weather. WOW!!!!
Todd
On 7/7/05 11:00 PM, "Charlie England" <ceengland@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
>
> Todd Fredricks wrote:
>
>> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Todd Fredricks <flyingfox@copper.net>
>>
>> If I might chime in on this thread; one of the reasons why I don't own a
>> Rockwell Commander or something 'faster' and I chose a 172 but want to sell
>> it and buy a Kolb is because I realized that after flying Caravans and Beech
>> 1900s that I will never own anything which can compete with what I can buy a
>> $250.00 ticket to fly on if what I want is fast.
>>
>> So if that is the case and I still want to engage in my passion of flying
>> across the land, then I bettered go the route of the 'safest' airplane I can
>> find. Since spec made airplanes don't routinely shed parts and engine
>> failures and fuel exhaustion are the biggest worries, I determined that the
>> shortest I could land safely the better. Helios are way out of my price
>> range and they lack the visibility I want. Can't afford maintenance on an
>> OH-6 and I prefer airplanes anyway. So in the end I want something that if
>> the need arises can land in a football field. I can consistently get the 172
>> down and stopped in 3-400 feet of runway.
>>
>> As long as you are not pushing the single engine night issue, a 3-400 foot
>> stopping distance affords you a lot of options. So that said, and aside from
>> ideas of crossing the Everglades single engine (I would opt out on that one)
>> I think the best planes for tearing off into the unknown or wilderness are
>> small single high lift airplanes that are carrying a good pack for
>> contingencies. I don't fear deserts or grizzly's as long as I have thought
>> through the possibilities before hand and as has been said before, Fly a Cub
>> or Kolb or T-craft along the interstates and minimize your time over the
>> crags and you really are picking the widest margin for the greatest utility
>> and fun.
>>
>> For the Everglades, I think I would pick and AirCam, but at $80K that's a
>> bit beyond me.
>>
>> Todd
>>
> A little good natured disagreement (only with your 1st paragraph):
>
> One of the reasons I bought something 'faster' was to easily beat the
> airlines. Pick any pair of non-hub cities less than 1000 miles apart &
> I'll bet I can beat the airlines, actual origin to actual destination,
> (not loading ramps) about 80-90% of the time & I don't have to put up
> with some minimum wage felon getting paid a federal executive's salary
> telling me to bend over so he can inspect my orifices. Living in a
> non-hub city means $250 tickets are rare as hen's teeth, as well.
>
> To top it off, I've only seen one airliner get upside down & I get to do
> it just about any time the mood strikes during a trip. :-)
>
> BTW, the Aircam truly deserves an 'awesome ride' label. I had the
> intense pleasure of flying around about 20' above the MS River for about
> 40 minutes a few years ago & never had to worry about getting wet. 2
> rotax 912S's on an 'ultralite'! Single engine? No problem. Helicopter
> performance? Pretty close. What a blast!
>
> Charlie
> Flying RV-4, wishing for a Kolb for after-supper flying
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Kolb-List message posted by: russ kinne <kinnepix@earthlink.net>
"love to hear from everyone"? OK, I'll add a little.
Personally, I usually prefer to use the passes through the mountains,
rather than go high and get bumped around in stronger winds. Being a
photographer, I like low flying anyway. And I like to keep a
"suitable landing area" within reach if possible, especially at night.
And if I were flying a 2-stroke I'd do it a lot more. I've done a lot
of far-from-roads flying, over much of Quebec and British Columbia,
wildlife surveys and spotting for swordfish boats 40-50 miles from land
at 1000' or less.
That doesn't scare me (too much) but when there's a "safety net"
nearby, other things being equal, I like to keep it within reach.
I've had two engine failures (Lycoming and Continental), made an
airport once, didn't the other time.
I usually plan rhumb-line XC flights, detouring for interesting
things. Tend to land at big airports where the food is better, but fuel
& RON at smaller ones where they need my money more & will let me
sleep under the wing or even in their lounge. Nicer people too,
in my experience. I just like grass better than asphalt.
Russ Kinne
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: q/Cross Country and Highways |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: ray anderson <rsanoa@yahoo.com>
John,
No one questions your ability to fly under any conditions, but you have
prepared your self with an airplane and engine as competent and reliable as
an Aeronca Champ or Chief ( near Kolb characteristics) with their certified engines.
I have owned both and like you, have flown over terrain that I would never
fly my current UltraStar and it's Cuyuna over, Apples and oranges. As to getting
an adrenalin high, I too have had my share, done deliberately. I'm now
87 and past that, but I was once young, believe it or not. Just a few examples.
I too am a long time motorcyclist. Before WW2, had three Indians. Just last
week gave my Suzuki 650 to my son. Have lost sight in one eye. Later will still
fly the Ultra Star. Rode with youthful disdain for common sense and safety.
You are too young to remember 'hill climbs'. Helmet, what was a helmet? I worked
with a guy flying a Ford Tri Motor hauling passengers out of cow pastures.
My job. I had been an amateur magician and learned e
scape
'magic'. We would challenge the local police to handcuff my hands behind my back
and I would jump from the Ford with an old Irvin seat pack, before the modern
sky diving chutes. Obviously I never failed to get at least one hand out of
their cuffs. Did the same act for airshows from Tri Motor Stinson, Wacos and
others. My point, I too enjoyed adrenalin highs, and believe me , that can give
you a high.
I have been to Eastern Turkey seven times climbing Mt Ararat looking for Noah's
Ark. I have located it's resting place on the glacier at 16,000 ft. I'm now too
old, but a scientific team is even this summer hopefully getting Turkish permits
to go up and examine the site. Another adelina high for me. Didn't intend
to go into this but someone keeps mentioning doing dangerous flying for adrenalin
highs. Just wanted to note that I'm aware of them.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck"
| --> Kolb-List message posted by: ray anderson
My reference to late departed dumb pilots were those and those now
living who are not smart enough (dumb) to educate themselves in what
is required to do "straight" line flying safely.
Hi Ray A/Gang:
Guess I know what category I fall into. ;-)
I love to get in my little airplane and go exploring. Some of the
best was experienced during the 15 day flight in May. I flew along
side a two stroke powered Firefly over terrain that made my knees weak
flying in a very reliable 4 stroke. Was a truly exciting two hour
flight over the Canyonlands National Park, Utah.
There is a certain amount of risk in most everything we do. I am
somewhat of an adrenalin junky. Always have been as long as I can
remember. That is why I have hobbies like flying, riding dirt bikes,
mountain biking, big old heavy powerful antique tractors. All that
machinery makes my heart race and fills me with excitement. I can see
my demise from a broken neck as the result of a fall while getting up
in the dark and trying to find a place to take a leak while on a very
long cross country flight in my little MKIII. hehehe
BTW: The saying you were trying to remember goes:
There are old pilots and bold pilots,
But no old, bold pilots.
Correct me if I am wrong, but that is the way I remember hearing it.
I don't think what John W or I say on this List will influence anyone,
one way or the other to head out over the Pocanos or the Brooks Range
in a two stroke powered Firestar unprepared. Maybe we can plant a
seed that will sprout and they, the young, inexperienced pilots, will
be able to adequately prepare for and execute some truly exciting
cross country flights, not necessarily in a straight line either.
Straight lines can be very boring.
Take care,
john h
PS: However, I have flown the Pocanos twice in my 447 two stroke
powered original Firestar, 1988 and 1989. Also the Blue Ridge,
Appalacians, the mountains in North Alabama, Tennessee, Arkansas, NE
Texas, West Virginia, Pennsylvania, and a few others I can not
remember right now. Did a lot of those same mountains in a two stroke
powered MKIII that has been 4 stroke powered since 1994. Could not
have done it if I had not pushed the throttle forward and pointed the
nose the direction I wanted to go. Never had any idea I could fly all
the way to New York State in 1988, until I did it. If I had not taken
a chance, I would still be sitting here at hauck's holler wishing I
had. Got an old friend told me about 5 years ago that a lot of men
die never realizing their dreams. My old friend convinced me to make
a second attempt to fly to Point Barrow, Alaska in a span of one year.
Sure am glad I did. Thanks Grey Baron.
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | IFR? i follow roads or not |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "b young" <by0ung@brigham.net>
But, it's an interesting question that I'd love to hear from everyone about: do
you fly IFR (I-Follow-Roads) when doing XC's, or do you just tear off into the
unknown, over piney forest, craggy mountains, grizzly-den'd wilderness, endless
desert, vast inland seas, alligator-infested swamp, or do you wimp-out/be
sensible (take your pick) and follow more forgiving terrain that would, in your
judgement, provide a more hospitable landing-out and/or proximity to recovery
resources?
-- Robert
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
it depends on where i am going and who i am with......when flying by my self over
rough country i try to stay within sight of a road but i dont follow it exactly.......
when going with others i will go where the need to be takes us....
if anyone in the group has a problem there is someone who can send help....
so far in the rocky mountains i have been able to avoid the alligator-infested
swamps. but the rest of your list has been on the menu....
boyd
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: q/Cross Country and Highways |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
| No one questions your ability to fly under any conditions
Morning Ray A/Gang:
Nor yours either.
Seems we fell out of similar molds. I graduated from jump school, Ft
Campbell, KY, 47 years ago last month. Wow! and I am just a kid
compared to you.
Made my living being a paratrooper for 9 years, then started flying
helicopters. Never jumped out of an airplane with my hands cuffed
behind or in front of my back though. hehehe That is a tough act.
Rode dirt bikes since a kid, with a 38 year sabatical, until I got the
DRZ400E three years ago.
When I found Kolbs and flew for the first time I was hooked on them.
Did my first cross country two weeks after my first flight in the
Ultrastar and my solo/self taught fixed wing flight. Not smart, but
too late to change that. It was a learning experience that cost me
two weeks flight time cause I broke my landing gear and prop.
Don't think there is too much I can do to keep somebody from making a
bad decision, including me, when the time comes. No one wants anyone
to get hurt in an airplane, especially a Kolb. Just had a 75 year old
in Dickson, TN, stall and die in his new MKIII Xtra. Classical too
slow, too low, and turn back to the field. Just a guess, but we have
lost more Kolb folks from too slow, too low, stall and die, than any
other type accident. Right off hand I can not think of anyone that
died because they were doing a cross country, over hostile terrain,
and no forced landing area. Those that died in those circumstances
usually stalled the aircraft prior to hitting the ground.
Thanks for sharing your experiences. I respect you, not only for your
age, but also for what you have done and what you have contributed to
us youngsters. Hope I get to see 87 from the cockpit of my Kolb over
some beautiful country out West or up in the Far North. That would be
a blast.
If today's young aviators are like me, they are out there flying ever
second they can get their hands on an aircraft, experimenting,
practicing, learning by getting out there and flying the Hell out of
it.
I was a much better pilot some years back when I tried to fly every
day than I am now flying once or twice a month.
Take care,
john h
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: q/Cross Country and Highways |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Flycrazy8@aol.com
Kolb-List message posted by: ray anderson <rsanoa@yahoo.com>
We would challenge the local police to handcuff my hands behind my back and
I would jump from the Ford with an old Irvin seat pack, before the modern
sky diving chutes. Obviously I never failed to get at least one hand out of
their cuffs. Did the same act for airshows from Tri Motor Stinson, Wacos and
others. My point, I too enjoyed adrenalin highs, and believe me , that can give
you a high.
I have been to Eastern Turkey seven times climbing Mt Ararat looking for
Noah's Ark. I have located it's resting place on the glacier at 16,000 ft. I'm
now too old, but a scientific team is even this summer hopefully getting
Turkish permits to go up and examine the site. Another Adreline high for me.
Didn't intend to go into this but someone keeps mentioning doing dangerous flying
for adrenalin highs. Just wanted to note that I'm aware I'm now 87 and past
that, but I was once young, believe it or not
Hey All of the Gang
LQQks Like we have an exception to that saying:
" There are old pilots and there are bold pilots but there are
NO old bold pilots"
Way to GO RAY !!!!!
I feel like I have some of that boldness flying my two -stroke....I choose
to take the chances for the THRILL of Flight.....Otherwise I'd be spending my
time on the Golf course or checking out the " Hooters" at the local "Show and
Tail "
Stephen
BamaGa Firefly
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | q/Cross Country and Highways |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Williamson" <kolbrapilot2@comcast.net>
Back to answer the original question posted about how to plan a XC flight
thru the mountains.
Since this is based on a flight in a Kolb, we have to make some basic
assumptions: limited fuel capacity, relatively slow speed and inability to
maintain a high altitude and still make meaningful forward progress.
Now pick your start point and your destination. If it is further than your
fuel endurance will take you, you have to deviate from that straight line to
a fuel stop. Now draw that line again from your fuel stop to the
destination. If this line is further than your fuel endurance will take you,
you have to deviate from that straight line to make another fuel stop. I
think you can see where I am going with this, A Kolb XC is only as far as
the next fuel stop. Now if one of these legs is over terrain that you choose
not to over-fly, you redraw that line to suit your comfort level. If you
have to cross a 9,000 foot high ridge line and a highway or railroad pass is
nearby at 4,500 feet, go thru the pass but expect to get a few bumps when
you do. I would prefer to climb to 10,500 or 11,500 and cross the ridge on
my route (I still would cross at one of the lower locations on the ridge and
not the tallest peak).
You need to look at your XC as a series of 120 to 180 nautical mile segments
and manage the risk one segment at a time.
As for following a road, I think the terms "paralleling a road or railroad"
would be more accurate. It is always a good idea to know where the nearest
road is in case you have to walk out from your crash site. Roads are not the
best off airport landing sites a lot of the time. I keep this saying in mind
"All roads have wires" whenever I contemplate landing on or near a road.
Now to hopefully clear up some of the other ramblings under this topic:
One poster sent this:
>>I have owned both and like you, have flown over terrain that I would never
fly my current UltraStar and it's Cuyuna over, Apples and oranges.>>
I am wondering just what Kolb you are flying since the FAA says you sold the
UltraStar:
************
FAA Registry
N-Number Inquiry Results
----
N13RA is Assigned
Assigned/Registered Aircraft
Aircraft Description
Serial Number 177 Type Registration Individual
Manufacturer Name ANDERSON RAY S Certificate Issue Date None
Model KOLB ULTRA-STAR Status In Question
Type Aircraft Fixed Wing Single-Engine Type Engine Reciprocating
Pending Number Change None Dealer No
Date Change Authorized None Mode S Code 50075120
MFR Year 1984 Fractional Owner NO
----
Registered Owner
Name SALE REPORTED
Street RT 5 BOX 61A
City COLQUITT State GEORGIA Zip Code 31737
County MILLER
Country UNITED STATES
----
Airworthiness
Engine Manufacturer CUYUNA Classification Experimental
Engine Model ALL MDLS A/B Category Amateur Built
A/W Date 12/19/1984
----
Other Owner Names
SOLD TO ROBERTS DANNY RAY
-
*****************
That same poster also sent this:
>>>Didn't intend to go into this but someone keeps mentioning doing
dangerous flying for adrenalin highs.>>>
This was the first time that "dangerous flying" had been brought up. What is
dangerous for your level of experience or airplane can be normal operations
for the vast majority of the flying public.
Please put where you are located, the type Kolb you are building of flying,
what engine you are flying or what Kolb you are thinking about building or
flying in your signature block so everyone can determine how seriours to
take your comments or suggestions.
Fly Safe.
John Williamson
Arlington, TX
Kolb Kolbra, Rotax 912ULS, 839 hours
http://home.comcast.net/~kolbrapilot
do not archive
Message 14
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: IFR? i follow roads or not |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Beauford" <beauford@tampabay.rr.com>
Gents...
I am tempted to suggest that we are overlooking an entire new category of
Kolb operations here...
IFI.... The FireFly is so slow and carries so little gas, it is possible to
follow a single intersection... (IFI)... until
forced to land and replenish....Hopefully, one is then positioned to pick up
a new intersection a little further out and repeat the drill... Gives a
whole new nuance to "XC" when one substitutes "county" for "country..."
Just a thought... (admittedly, not much of one...)
Beauford
FF #076
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "b young" <by0ung@brigham.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: IFR? i follow roads or not
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "b young" <by0ung@brigham.net>
>
>
> But, it's an interesting question that I'd love to hear from everyone
> about: do
> you fly IFR (I-Follow-Roads) when doing XC's, or do you just tear off into
> the
> unknown, over piney forest, craggy mountains, grizzly-den'd wilderness,
> endless
> desert, vast inland seas, alligator-infested swamp, or do you wimp-out/be
> sensible (take your pick) and follow more forgiving terrain that would, in
> your
> judgement, provide a more hospitable landing-out and/or proximity to
> recovery
> resources?
>
> -- Robert
>
>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> it depends on where i am going and who i am with......when flying by my
> self over rough country i try to stay within sight of a road but i dont
> follow it exactly....... when going with others i will go where the
> need to be takes us.... if anyone in the group has a problem there is
> someone who can send help.... so far in the rocky mountains i have been
> able to avoid the alligator-infested swamps. but the rest of your list
> has been on the menu....
>
> boyd
>
>
>
Message 15
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: IFR? i follow roads or not |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Todd Fredricks <flyingfox@copper.net>
Robert
I had the advantage of some good Army training a few years ago that was
essentially how to recover from upsets in an airplane. It really instilled a
sense of confidence in my abilities to handle an airplane in slow and
unusual flight. I was taught tailwheels by some older (late 60 year olds)
pilots who lent me their rebuilt airplanes to try and kill myself in. Stuff
like L-2s and Cubs that have no electrical systems and that started me along
an entire train of thought about airmanship and situational awareness.
I have no Kolb experience and my CGS Hawk time is now well over 10 years old
but If the Kolb flies like a J-3 then I should be pretty close to good here.
We'll see.
I think more than anything I try to watch for roads but John W made an
excellent point about wires. Helicopter flying has made me very aware of
looking for towers and if I lost an engine it would not bother me to land on
a road provided I had a good feel for the towers in the area, because when
you know where the towers are you can get a good idea on the wires.
After that when you have to go across miles of mountains in West Virginia
you are looking for roads, meadows and fields all the time. I also like
altitude because it gives me a good margin of time to consider options when
the fan quits. I always fly with my moving map GPS as well because the road
behind me might be better than the field in front of me.
I think the concept of risk management is very good. Crossing the Rockies I
would want to have some survival essentials. I installed shoulder harnesses
in the 172 years ago because the numbers are pretty clear that most small
aircraft injuries and fatalities are preventable if the occupants had been
wearing shoulder harnesses. Water, a method for fire and some days of food
and warm clothing. Good shoes, compass and a knife. Across a lot of
wilderness, a shotgun as well.
Finally, a good flight plan is pretty much worth its weight in gold. I NEVER
fly cross-country without being on at least a flight following basis with
ATC. Doesn't mean I file IFR but if something bad does happen at least I can
shout out to ATC and they can get a good idea on where I am and follow the
track down. Could save hours of looking where I am not.
Todd
On 7/8/05 11:08 AM, "b young" <by0ung@brigham.net> wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "b young" <by0ung@brigham.net>
>
>
> But, it's an interesting question that I'd love to hear from everyone about:
> do
> you fly IFR (I-Follow-Roads) when doing XC's, or do you just tear off into the
> unknown, over piney forest, craggy mountains, grizzly-den'd wilderness,
> endless
> desert, vast inland seas, alligator-infested swamp, or do you wimp-out/be
> sensible (take your pick) and follow more forgiving terrain that would, in
> your
> judgement, provide a more hospitable landing-out and/or proximity to recovery
> resources?
>
> -- Robert
>
>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> it depends on where i am going and who i am with......when flying by my self
> over rough country i try to stay within sight of a road but i dont follow it
> exactly....... when going with others i will go where the need to be takes
> us.... if anyone in the group has a problem there is someone who can send
> help.... so far in the rocky mountains i have been able to avoid the
> alligator-infested swamps. but the rest of your list has been on the
> menu....
>
> boyd
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 16
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: q/Cross Country and Highways |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Todd Fredricks <flyingfox@copper.net>
I would add that John Hauck and John Williamson are the reason why I am
selling my 172. I first encountered their trips on the web a few years ago
and I spent about every day thinking about those adventures when I was in
the war. I wish someone would host all that stuff. I spent/spend a lot of
time at John W's website as well thinking about his Kolbra and the places it
has gone. The seed has certainly sprouted in me and I cannot wait to get my
Mark IIIX and a block of good instruction because after that, it will be
hard to find me anywhere near home.
Todd
On 7/8/05 10:58 AM, "ray anderson" <rsanoa@yahoo.com> wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: ray anderson <rsanoa@yahoo.com>
>
> John,
> No one questions your ability to fly under any conditions, but you
> have prepared your self with an airplane and engine as competent and reliable
> as an Aeronca Champ or Chief ( near Kolb characteristics) with their certified
> engines. I have owned both and like you, have flown over terrain that I would
> never fly my current UltraStar and it's Cuyuna over, Apples and oranges. As to
> getting an adrenalin high, I too have had my share, done deliberately. I'm now
> 87 and past that, but I was once young, believe it or not. Just a few
> examples. I too am a long time motorcyclist. Before WW2, had three Indians.
> Just last week gave my Suzuki 650 to my son. Have lost sight in one eye. Later
> will still fly the Ultra Star. Rode with youthful disdain for common sense and
> safety. You are too young to remember 'hill climbs'. Helmet, what was a
> helmet? I worked with a guy flying a Ford Tri Motor hauling passengers out of
> cow pastures. My job. I had been an amateur magician and learned e
> scape
> 'magic'. We would challenge the local police to handcuff my hands behind my
> back and I would jump from the Ford with an old Irvin seat pack, before the
> modern sky diving chutes. Obviously I never failed to get at least one hand
> out of their cuffs. Did the same act for airshows from Tri Motor Stinson,
> Wacos and others. My point, I too enjoyed adrenalin highs, and believe me ,
> that can give you a high.
> I have been to Eastern Turkey seven times climbing Mt Ararat looking for
> Noah's Ark. I have located it's resting place on the glacier at 16,000 ft. I'm
> now too old, but a scientific team is even this summer hopefully getting
> Turkish permits to go up and examine the site. Another adelina high for me.
> Didn't intend to go into this but someone keeps mentioning doing dangerous
> flying for adrenalin highs. Just wanted to note that I'm aware of them.
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
> John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck"
>
>
> My reference to late departed dumb pilots were those and those now
> living who are not smart enough (dumb) to educate themselves in what
> is required to do "straight" line flying safely.
>
> Hi Ray A/Gang:
>
> Guess I know what category I fall into. ;-)
>
> I love to get in my little airplane and go exploring. Some of the
> best was experienced during the 15 day flight in May. I flew along
> side a two stroke powered Firefly over terrain that made my knees weak
> flying in a very reliable 4 stroke. Was a truly exciting two hour
> flight over the Canyonlands National Park, Utah.
>
> There is a certain amount of risk in most everything we do. I am
> somewhat of an adrenalin junky. Always have been as long as I can
> remember. That is why I have hobbies like flying, riding dirt bikes,
> mountain biking, big old heavy powerful antique tractors. All that
> machinery makes my heart race and fills me with excitement. I can see
> my demise from a broken neck as the result of a fall while getting up
> in the dark and trying to find a place to take a leak while on a very
> long cross country flight in my little MKIII. hehehe
>
> BTW: The saying you were trying to remember goes:
>
> There are old pilots and bold pilots,
> But no old, bold pilots.
>
> Correct me if I am wrong, but that is the way I remember hearing it.
>
> I don't think what John W or I say on this List will influence anyone,
> one way or the other to head out over the Pocanos or the Brooks Range
> in a two stroke powered Firestar unprepared. Maybe we can plant a
> seed that will sprout and they, the young, inexperienced pilots, will
> be able to adequately prepare for and execute some truly exciting
> cross country flights, not necessarily in a straight line either.
> Straight lines can be very boring.
>
> Take care,
>
> john h
>
> PS: However, I have flown the Pocanos twice in my 447 two stroke
> powered original Firestar, 1988 and 1989. Also the Blue Ridge,
> Appalacians, the mountains in North Alabama, Tennessee, Arkansas, NE
> Texas, West Virginia, Pennsylvania, and a few others I can not
> remember right now. Did a lot of those same mountains in a two stroke
> powered MKIII that has been 4 stroke powered since 1994. Could not
> have done it if I had not pushed the throttle forward and pointed the
> nose the direction I wanted to go. Never had any idea I could fly all
> the way to New York State in 1988, until I did it. If I had not taken
> a chance, I would still be sitting here at hauck's holler wishing I
> had. Got an old friend told me about 5 years ago that a lot of men
> die never realizing their dreams. My old friend convinced me to make
> a second attempt to fly to Point Barrow, Alaska in a span of one year.
> Sure am glad I did. Thanks Grey Baron.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
Message 17
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | q/Cross Country and Highways |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: WillUribe@aol.com
Greetings,
I follow the roads...Sometimes
Take a look
http://members.aol.com/firestartwo/IFR/
Regards,
Guillermo Uribe
El Paso, TX.
FireStar II N4GU
C-172 N2506U
http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/
do not archive
Message 18
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | q/Cross Country and Highways |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: ray anderson <rsanoa@yahoo.com>
Answers to your questions, I hope.
My present Ultra Star was purchased from the original builder, Bruce Borg in MN.
Was trailered back to middle Tenn. Is not currently registered with FAA because
it is technically still ultralight. This the only one of my 16 previously
owned, store bought and homebuilt aircraft and gyrocopters, that has not carried
either 'store bought' or experimental license and N number. To answer your
last paragraph ....
Curtiss Wright Jr. NC623V, Aeronca C3 N17438, Aeronca C3 14564, Aeronca C3
N12480, Aeronca "K" N21032, Ercoupe N99082, Ercoupe N2135H, Mooney Mite N329M,
Piper Colt N648A, Piper Tri Pacer N4638Z, Aeronca Champ N 84668, Rutan
Quickie NIV, Kolb UltraStar N13RA, TEAM Mini Max N12RA, Benson Gycopter
N6019, Benson Gycopter, N (number forgotten), To further answer your question,
most of aircraft were flown from the Los Angeles area until retired to Bell
Buckle,TN. Only retractable gear plane was the Mooney Mite. Hope this answers
your questions. Am sending another answer off line.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
John Williamson <kolbrapilot2@comcast.net> wrote:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Williamson"
Back to answer the original question posted about how to plan a XC flight
thru the mountains.
Since this is based on a flight in a Kolb, we have to make some basic
assumptions: limited fuel capacity, relatively slow speed and inability to
maintain a high altitude and still make meaningful forward progress.
Now pick your start point and your destination. If it is further than your
fuel endurance will take you, you have to deviate from that straight line to
a fuel stop. Now draw that line again from your fuel stop to the
destination. If this line is further than your fuel endurance will take you,
you have to deviate from that straight line to make another fuel stop. I
think you can see where I am going with this, A Kolb XC is only as far as
the next fuel stop. Now if one of these legs is over terrain that you choose
not to over-fly, you redraw that line to suit your comfort level. If you
have to cross a 9,000 foot high ridge line and a highway or railroad pass is
nearby at 4,500 feet, go thru the pass but expect to get a few bumps when
you do. I would prefer to climb to 10,500 or 11,500 and cross the ridge on
my route (I still would cross at one of the lower locations on the ridge and
not the tallest peak).
You need to look at your XC as a series of 120 to 180 nautical mile segments
and manage the risk one segment at a time.
As for following a road, I think the terms "paralleling a road or railroad"
would be more accurate. It is always a good idea to know where the nearest
road is in case you have to walk out from your crash site. Roads are not the
best off airport landing sites a lot of the time. I keep this saying in mind
"All roads have wires" whenever I contemplate landing on or near a road.
Now to hopefully clear up some of the other ramblings under this topic:
One poster sent this:
>>I have owned both and like you, have flown over terrain that I would never
fly my current UltraStar and it's Cuyuna over, Apples and oranges.>>
I am wondering just what Kolb you are flying since the FAA says you sold the
UltraStar:
************
FAA Registry
N-Number Inquiry Results
----
N13RA is Assigned
Assigned/Registered Aircraft
Aircraft Description
Serial Number 177 Type Registration Individual
Manufacturer Name ANDERSON RAY S Certificate Issue Date None
Model KOLB ULTRA-STAR Status In Question
Type Aircraft Fixed Wing Single-Engine Type Engine Reciprocating
Pending Number Change None Dealer No
Date Change Authorized None Mode S Code 50075120
MFR Year 1984 Fractional Owner NO
----
Registered Owner
Name SALE REPORTED
Street RT 5 BOX 61A
City COLQUITT State GEORGIA Zip Code 31737
County MILLER
Country UNITED STATES
----
Airworthiness
Engine Manufacturer CUYUNA Classification Experimental
Engine Model ALL MDLS A/B Category Amateur Built
A/W Date 12/19/1984
----
Other Owner Names
SOLD TO ROBERTS DANNY RAY
-
*****************
That same poster also sent this:
>>>Didn't intend to go into this but someone keeps mentioning doing
dangerous flying for adrenalin highs.>>>
This was the first time that "dangerous flying" had been brought up. What is
dangerous for your level of experience or airplane can be normal operations
for the vast majority of the flying public.
Please put where you are located, the type Kolb you are building of flying,
what engine you are flying or what Kolb you are thinking about building or
flying in your signature block so everyone can determine how seriours to
take your comments or suggestions.
Fly Safe.
John Williamson
Arlington, TX
Kolb Kolbra, Rotax 912ULS, 839 hours
http://home.comcast.net/~kolbrapilot
do not archive
Message 19
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
| I think more than anything I try to watch for roads but John W made
an
| excellent point about wires. Helicopter flying has made me very
aware of
| looking for towers and if I lost an engine it would not bother me to
land on
| a road provided I had a good feel for the towers in the area,
because when
| you know where the towers are you can get a good idea on the wires.
Todd/All:
I am gonna guess you are talking about guy wires on the towers, right?
Big concern landing on roads in the Lower 48 and populated areas of
Canada and Alaska is power lines crossing highways and roads.
Normally, look for houses, buildings, etc., because there are going to
be wires running to these places, unless they are old Amish. Down
here in my part of the country and other areas serviced by REA (Rural
Electric Association) one never knows where the wires are going to be
because REA rant the line the shortest distance to the structure, not
necessarily along roads and highways, and across same. In the
Sparsely Populated Areas of the Far North and places out West there is
no electricity, so no power wires. There are still a few places along
the Alaska Highway sporting the old telephone wires and poles. When
cross countrying I look for power poles and power towers. Always look
for more than one so you know which way the line is oriented. Bad
feeling to be right on top of the wheat, catch a big power
transmission line tower out the corner of your eye, then be unable to
see the wire or locate the second tower. Got caught in that trap a
few years ago heading north. The longer you fly, the hotter it is,
the hungrier you are, the tired you feel, the easier it is to make
dumb decisions that are awfully expensive in terms of money and lives.
john h
titus, alabama
MKIII/912ULS
Message 20
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Cross Country |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Bob N." <ronoy@shentel.net>
One of my favorite flathatting flights is following the Shenandoah river
as it twists its way down the Valley. At a couple hundred feet I can
wave at the occasional fisherman and not cause any of the flocks of
chickens or turkeys to panic. But there are wires, or waaars as they
called hereabouts, across the river that need attention. Very few have
balls (used to be an ad in Trade-A-Plane: Your Balls Saved My Life)
except near airports.
Another is racing semis on I-81. Only way I ever win is on a long
upgrade, but soon lose down hill. Here's part of my column from Aviation
Digest of 5/02:
At 500, 48mph, the Shenandoah Valley slowly unrolls beneath me. The
hard frost of some weeks ago did damage some of the opening peach
blossoms, but since the apple trees come out a bit later, our famous
apple blossoms are intact, and a good crop is forecast. Heading south
over I-81 and its constant stream of tractor trailers, I race a new,
white truck with a moon roof in the cab. He is going up a long grade,
and I can just keep up at about 5500 rpm (engine, not prop!). No trees,
crossing wires, just a long grade. Lowering a bit I get a closer look at
the driver--hes a she! Small, blond, pony tail--waves at me, reaches up
and gives a long pull on the air horn, which I cant hear over the whine
of Herr Rotax. Now shes topped the grade, and metals the pedal while I
slowly fall astern. Its cold up here, windchill-wise, and these chinos
are piping some not-too-ambient air way past my knee bones.
There is a green haze on the trees, set off by the many fields that have
both brown and green, depending upon what little rain weve had. Farmers
are all working their fields this fine day--odd thing, a good flying day
is also a good farming day. Glad Im not back on the farm; more glad Im
up here flying, free as the crows below, the chicken hawks above.
Back near home plate I wedge the little FireFly into the pattern,
keeping my altitude at 500 which allows all the two C172s to look down
on me (both literally and figuratively) and for me to see whos where.
They announce Closed Circuit, which I take to be touch-and-go aka
Squat&Scat. Like any good Navy man, I make turns for 35 kts all the way
home. Love those 7-8 psi tires. Taxi tail high to barn.
Bob N.
do not archive
Message 21
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Cross Country |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Todd Fredricks <flyingfox@copper.net>
John;
With you on that. We have the same problem up here in Appalachia, nary a
thought to how to get the power to the house except set the pole and run
with it. That and the dense hardwood forests and the enviro-wackos who
wanted to paint the cell and power towers like tree to "blend-in" with the
surroundings and you have a mess.
Two years ago a friend was flying for an oil company and hit the high
tension lines in his 406. He saw the wire, held what he had, felt a WHUP!
And realized that he still had full cyclic and collective control. No
lights, no alarms and he was still flying.
He landed in the only flat backyard he could find in the closest hollar and
low and behold found out that those wire cutters do actually work.
When I say towers I always mean two. For precisely the reasons that you
mention; you can figure out where the wires stretch between them.
But in a pinch and all I got is Oak forest on both sides and I-70, I will do
my best to drop altitude with as little ground covered as possible and then
land the thing on the road. Failing that, I suppose a good Wal Mart parking
lot might work. They seem to be everywhere and I have never seen a wire
across one of them. :)
Kolb needs to build a twin the more I think about this.
Todd
On 7/8/05 5:28 PM, "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
>
> an
> aware of
> land on
> because when
> | Todd
>
> Todd/All:
>
> I am gonna guess you are talking about guy wires on the towers, right?
>
> Big concern landing on roads in the Lower 48 and populated areas of
> Canada and Alaska is power lines crossing highways and roads.
> Normally, look for houses, buildings, etc., because there are going to
> be wires running to these places, unless they are old Amish. Down
> here in my part of the country and other areas serviced by REA (Rural
> Electric Association) one never knows where the wires are going to be
> because REA rant the line the shortest distance to the structure, not
> necessarily along roads and highways, and across same. In the
> Sparsely Populated Areas of the Far North and places out West there is
> no electricity, so no power wires. There are still a few places along
> the Alaska Highway sporting the old telephone wires and poles. When
> cross countrying I look for power poles and power towers. Always look
> for more than one so you know which way the line is oriented. Bad
> feeling to be right on top of the wheat, catch a big power
> transmission line tower out the corner of your eye, then be unable to
> see the wire or locate the second tower. Got caught in that trap a
> few years ago heading north. The longer you fly, the hotter it is,
> the hungrier you are, the tired you feel, the easier it is to make
> dumb decisions that are awfully expensive in terms of money and lives.
>
> john h
> titus, alabama
> MKIII/912ULS
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 22
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Cross Country |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
|In the
| Sparsely Populated Areas of the Far North and places out West there
is
| no electricity, so no power wires. | john h
Folks:
Let me qualify the above statement. It ain't entirely true. Last
summer I started seeing powerline along populated areas along the
Alaska Highway and other roads. So, if you are headed that way,
beware!!!
john h
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler, alabama
Message 23
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Cross Country |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "ron wehba" <rwehba@pegasusbb.com>
hey john, need a favor, your web site link ,i lost it,,thanks ronw in west
"HOT" tx.
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Cross Country
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
> is
>
> Folks:
>
> Let me qualify the above statement. It ain't entirely true. Last
> summer I started seeing powerline along populated areas along the
> Alaska Highway and other roads. So, if you are headed that way,
> beware!!!
>
> john h
> MKIII/912ULS
> hauck's holler, alabama
>
>
>
Message 24
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Cross Country |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Todd Fredricks <flyingfox@copper.net>
Kind of figuring on getting the Kolb and learning to fly it before I venture
off into the Great White North.
Just checked Air Cam's and they are $82K minus instruments. Lot's of dough.
Todd
On 7/8/05 6:51 PM, "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
> |In the
> is
>
> Folks:
>
> Let me qualify the above statement. It ain't entirely true. Last
> summer I started seeing powerline along populated areas along the
> Alaska Highway and other roads. So, if you are headed that way,
> beware!!!
>
> john h
> MKIII/912ULS
> hauck's holler, alabama
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 25
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Kolb-List message posted by: russ kinne <kinnepix@earthlink.net>
Don=92t want to plug up the Archives, and this an item that may affect
only a very few of you, but it would be good to have it on the back
shelf of your memory-bank.
I doubt many of you fly XC at night; when I do I ALWAYS try to keep a
4-lane within reach. (Sorry John) because it=92s a great smooth surface
to aim for. BUT you can=92t see the wires or BRIDGES at night, and that
could spoil your whole day (night). Hope it never happens, to you or to
me, but -- Be Prepared -- to land with the traffic of course, pass them
overhead, faster than they are, probably, come down & you=92ll slow down
in front of them, they CAN=92T not see you -- then slow down & turn off
wherever you can. If no idiot ahead of you slams on the brakes, you
should be OK -- except for bridges.
So. Watch traffic ahead of you, & if their lights go out/blink, there=92s
probably a bridge there; remember, probably wires too. Your approach
should be steep, sort of diving toward the road, then level off at 20=92
or so and slow down. Not ideal, but should be survivable. Your
landing-light will hopefully show you any bridge or wires that are a
hazard, in time to avoid them.
And I certainly hope you never have to go there!
Russ Kinne
Message 26
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Engines and Reliability |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
|
| Todd
Todd/All:
More engines, more parts, more problems, more maintenance, more fuel,
more cost.
Nothing wrong with the 912 series engines from what I can tell. With
2,160.0 hours in front of two of them, I have had two engine outs
caused by contaminated fuel and water in the fuel. Both times fuel
from other than my 5 gal cans or a pump at an airport. John W has
been trying to train me to use only fuel out of the pump at airports.
Had I done that in 1994 and 1998, I would be able to say I have never
had an engine out. Well, that ain't true either. I lost the 912ULS
at idle on short final to Toad River, BC, because of ice in 2000. I'd
say that is a pretty good record, and good enough for me to feel
comfortable with single engine. Of course, all the components, prop,
throttle cables, air filters, etc., have to be top notch to compliment
the system.
john h
MKIII-2,370.9 hours
912ULS-1025.0 hours
912UL-1135.0 hours
Titus, Alabama
Message 27
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Engines and Reliability |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Todd Fredricks <flyingfox@copper.net>
But you gotta admit it would look pretty cool.
On 7/8/05 7:08 PM, "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
>
> | Kolb needs to build a twin the more I think about this.
>
> Todd/All:
>
> More engines, more parts, more problems, more maintenance, more fuel,
> more cost.
>
> Nothing wrong with the 912 series engines from what I can tell. With
> 2,160.0 hours in front of two of them, I have had two engine outs
> caused by contaminated fuel and water in the fuel. Both times fuel
> from other than my 5 gal cans or a pump at an airport. John W has
> been trying to train me to use only fuel out of the pump at airports.
> Had I done that in 1994 and 1998, I would be able to say I have never
> had an engine out. Well, that ain't true either. I lost the 912ULS
> at idle on short final to Toad River, BC, because of ice in 2000. I'd
> say that is a pretty good record, and good enough for me to feel
> comfortable with single engine. Of course, all the components, prop,
> throttle cables, air filters, etc., have to be top notch to compliment
> the system.
>
> john h
> MKIII-2,370.9 hours
> 912ULS-1025.0 hours
> 912UL-1135.0 hours
> Titus, Alabama
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 28
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Engines and Reliability |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Rusty" <13brv3c@bellsouth.net>
> | Kolb needs to build a twin the more I think about this.
Funny, but Dennis and I talked about this years ago. I've always wanted a
centerline thrust twin, and figured that cheap (they used to be cheap) Rotax
engines would be fine, since the chance of both failing at once would be
slim.
As it turned out, Dennis already had a SS cage, and two 532 engines that he
planned to make into such a beast. He was going to mount one in the normal
location, and one up front, then fly from the rear seat. AFAIK, he never
started working on it.
Cheers,
Rusty
Mazda 13B rotary powered RV-3 (flying, until Dennis gets here)
Kolb Slingshot (Mazda single rotor project, damaged by Ivan, waiting for
Dennis)
Message 29
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | q - Safe Operations |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Williamson" <kolbrapilot2@comcast.net>
Russ, I changed the Subject line to reflect what we might me talking about.
If you fly an ultralight vehicle then you need to know the following FAR's:
103.9 Hazardous operations.
(a) No person may operate any ultralight vehicle in a manner that creates a
hazard to other persons or property.
103.11 Daylight operations.
(a) No person may operate an ultralight vehicle except between the hours of
sunrise and sunset.
(b) Notwithstanding paragraph (a) of this section, ultralight vehicles may
be operated during the twilight periods 30 minutes before official sunrise
and 30 minutes after official sunset or, in Alaska, during the period of
civil twilight as defined in the Air Almanac, if:
(1) The vehicle is equipped with an operating anticollision light visible
for at least 3 statute miles; and
(2) All operations are conducted in uncontrolled airspace.
103.13 Operation near aircraft; right-of-way rules.
(a) Each person operating an ultralight vehicle shall maintain vigilance so
as to see and avoid aircraft and shall yield the right-of-way to all
aircraft.
103.15 Operations over congested areas.
No person may operate an ultralight vehicle over any congested area of a
city, town, or settlement, or over any open air assembly of persons.
103.17 Operations in certain airspace.
No person may operate an ultralight vehicle within Class A, Class B, Class
C, or Class D airspace or within the lateral boundaries of the surface area
of Class E airspace designated for an airport unless that person has prior
authorization from the ATC facility having jurisdiction over that airspace.
103.20 Flight restrictions in the proximity of certain areas designated
by notice to airmen.
No person may operate an ultralight vehicle in areas designated in a Notice
to Airmen under 91.137, 91.138, 91.141, 91.143 or 91.145 of this
chapter, unless authorized by:
(a) Air Traffic Control (ATC); or
(b) A Flight Standards Certificate of Waiver or Authorization issued for the
demonstration or event.
103.21 Visual reference with the surface.
No person may operate an ultralight vehicle except by visual reference with
the surface.
I added the emphasis and want to make sure every ultralight pilot knows that
this is not the entire FAR 103.
If you fly an "N" numbered airplane I want to refresh your memory about a
few FAR's:
91.3 Responsibility and authority of the pilot in command.
(a) The pilot in command of an aircraft is directly responsible for, and is
the final authority as to, the operation of that aircraft.
(b) In an in-flight emergency requiring immediate action, the pilot in
command may deviate from any rule of this part to the extent required to
meet that emergency.
(c) Each pilot in command who deviates from a rule under paragraph (b) of
this section shall, upon the request of the Administrator, send a written
report of that deviation to the Administrator.
91.13 Careless or reckless operation.
(a) Aircraft operations for the purpose of air navigation. No person may
operate an aircraft in a careless or reckless manner so as to endanger the
life or property of another.
91.15 Dropping objects.
No pilot in command of a civil aircraft may allow any object to be dropped
from that aircraft in flight that creates a hazard to persons or property.
However, this section does not prohibit the dropping of any object if
reasonable precautions are taken to avoid injury or damage to persons or
property.
91.119 Minimum safe altitudes: General.
Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may operate an
aircraft below the following altitudes:
(a) Anywhere. An altitude allowing, if a power unit fails, an emergency
landing without undue hazard to persons or property on the surface.
(b) Over congested areas. Over any congested area of a city, town, or
settlement, or over any open air assembly of persons, an altitude of 1,000
feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal radius of 2,000 feet of
the aircraft.
(c) Over other than congested areas. An altitude of 500 feet above the
surface, except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In those cases,
the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel,
vehicle, or structure.
91.319 Aircraft having experimental certificates: Operating limitations.
(a) No person may operate an aircraft that has an experimental certificate-
(1) For other than the purpose for which the certificate was issued; or
(2) Carrying persons or property for compensation or hire.
(b) No person may operate an aircraft that has an experimental certificate
outside of an area assigned by the Administrator until it is shown that-
(1) The aircraft is controllable throughout its normal range of speeds and
throughout all the maneuvers to be executed; and
(2) The aircraft has no hazardous operating characteristics or design
features.
(c) Unless otherwise authorized by the Administrator in special operating
limitations, no person may operate an aircraft that has an experimental
certificate over a densely populated area or in a congested airway. The
Administrator may issue special operating limitations for particular
aircraft to permit takeoffs and landings to be conducted over a densely
populated area or in a congested airway, in accordance with terms and
conditions specified in the authorization in the interest of safety in air
commerce.
61.3 Requirement for certificates, ratings, and authorizations.
e) Instrument rating. No person may act as pilot in command of a civil
aircraft under IFR or in weather conditions less than the minimums
prescribed for VFR flight unless that person holds:
(1) The appropriate aircraft category, class, type (if required), and
instrument rating on that person's pilot certificate for any airplane,
helicopter, or powered-lift being flown;
From the AIM:
4-4-7. IFR Clearance VFR-on-top
a. A pilot on an IFR flight plan operating in VFR weather conditions, may
request VFR-on-top in lieu of an assigned altitude. This permits a pilot to
select an altitude or flight level of their choice (subject to any ATC
restrictions.)
b. Pilots desiring to climb through a cloud, haze, smoke, or other
meteorological formation and then either cancel their IFR flight plan or
operate VFR-on-top may request a climb to VFR-on-top. The ATC authorization
shall contain either a top report or a statement that no top report is
available, and a request to report reaching VFR-on-top. Additionally, the
ATC authorization may contain a clearance limit, routing and an alternative
clearance if VFR-on-top is not reached by a specified altitude.
If you have less than VFR weather, the aircraft and pilot have to be
instrument qualified and current to file or receive an IFR clearance.
VFR-on-top is a clearance for aircraft equipped a little better than the
normal Kolb.
I added the emphasis and want to make sure every pilot knows that this is
not the entire FAR's.
If you want to make the Wal Mart parking lot or the Interstate Highway your
emergency landing location that's fine with me and the FAA, IAW FAR 91.3. I
just think you are doing an injustice to the persons and property on the
ground to minimize the damage to an airplane.
Safety First; to your passengers, to the folks on the ground, then to you
and lastly the airplane.
This is just my opinion, which is as good or bad as anyone else's.
John Williamson
Arlington, TX
Kolb Kolbra, Rotax 912ULS, 839 hours
http://home.comcast.net/~kolbrapilot
do not archive
Message 30
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: q - Safe Operations |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Todd Fredricks <flyingfox@copper.net>
I didn't plan on hitting anything in the Wal Mart parking lot, John. I was
going to shoot for the empty "RV" docks on the periphery. As well if the
only option is dense Oak forest or the interstate, I might try for the road,
traffic notwithstanding.
On 7/8/05 9:22 PM, "John Williamson" <kolbrapilot2@comcast.net> wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Williamson" <kolbrapilot2@comcast.net>
>
> Russ, I changed the Subject line to reflect what we might me talking about.
>
> If you fly an ultralight vehicle then you need to know the following FAR's:
>
> 103.9 Hazardous operations.
> (a) No person may operate any ultralight vehicle in a manner that creates a
> hazard to other persons or property.
>
> 103.11 Daylight operations.
> (a) No person may operate an ultralight vehicle except between the hours of
> sunrise and sunset.
>
> (b) Notwithstanding paragraph (a) of this section, ultralight vehicles may
> be operated during the twilight periods 30 minutes before official sunrise
> and 30 minutes after official sunset or, in Alaska, during the period of
> civil twilight as defined in the Air Almanac, if:
>
> (1) The vehicle is equipped with an operating anticollision light visible
> for at least 3 statute miles; and
>
> (2) All operations are conducted in uncontrolled airspace.
>
> 103.13 Operation near aircraft; right-of-way rules.
> (a) Each person operating an ultralight vehicle shall maintain vigilance so
> as to see and avoid aircraft and shall yield the right-of-way to all
> aircraft.
>
> 103.15 Operations over congested areas.
> No person may operate an ultralight vehicle over any congested area of a
> city, town, or settlement, or over any open air assembly of persons.
>
> 103.17 Operations in certain airspace.
> No person may operate an ultralight vehicle within Class A, Class B, Class
> C, or Class D airspace or within the lateral boundaries of the surface area
> of Class E airspace designated for an airport unless that person has prior
> authorization from the ATC facility having jurisdiction over that airspace.
>
> 103.20 Flight restrictions in the proximity of certain areas designated
> by notice to airmen.
> No person may operate an ultralight vehicle in areas designated in a Notice
> to Airmen under 91.137, 91.138, 91.141, 91.143 or 91.145 of this
> chapter, unless authorized by:
>
> (a) Air Traffic Control (ATC); or
>
> (b) A Flight Standards Certificate of Waiver or Authorization issued for the
> demonstration or event.
>
> 103.21 Visual reference with the surface.
> No person may operate an ultralight vehicle except by visual reference with
> the surface.
>
> I added the emphasis and want to make sure every ultralight pilot knows that
> this is not the entire FAR 103.
>
> If you fly an "N" numbered airplane I want to refresh your memory about a
> few FAR's:
>
> 91.3 Responsibility and authority of the pilot in command.
> (a) The pilot in command of an aircraft is directly responsible for, and is
> the final authority as to, the operation of that aircraft.
>
> (b) In an in-flight emergency requiring immediate action, the pilot in
> command may deviate from any rule of this part to the extent required to
> meet that emergency.
>
> (c) Each pilot in command who deviates from a rule under paragraph (b) of
> this section shall, upon the request of the Administrator, send a written
> report of that deviation to the Administrator.
>
> 91.13 Careless or reckless operation.
> (a) Aircraft operations for the purpose of air navigation. No person may
> operate an aircraft in a careless or reckless manner so as to endanger the
> life or property of another.
>
> 91.15 Dropping objects.
> No pilot in command of a civil aircraft may allow any object to be dropped
> from that aircraft in flight that creates a hazard to persons or property.
> However, this section does not prohibit the dropping of any object if
> reasonable precautions are taken to avoid injury or damage to persons or
> property.
>
> 91.119 Minimum safe altitudes: General.
> Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may operate an
> aircraft below the following altitudes:
>
> (a) Anywhere. An altitude allowing, if a power unit fails, an emergency
> landing without undue hazard to persons or property on the surface.
>
> (b) Over congested areas. Over any congested area of a city, town, or
> settlement, or over any open air assembly of persons, an altitude of 1,000
> feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal radius of 2,000 feet of
> the aircraft.
>
> (c) Over other than congested areas. An altitude of 500 feet above the
> surface, except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In those cases,
> the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel,
> vehicle, or structure.
>
> 91.319 Aircraft having experimental certificates: Operating limitations.
> (a) No person may operate an aircraft that has an experimental certificate-
>
> (1) For other than the purpose for which the certificate was issued; or
>
> (2) Carrying persons or property for compensation or hire.
>
> (b) No person may operate an aircraft that has an experimental certificate
> outside of an area assigned by the Administrator until it is shown that-
>
> (1) The aircraft is controllable throughout its normal range of speeds and
> throughout all the maneuvers to be executed; and
>
> (2) The aircraft has no hazardous operating characteristics or design
> features.
>
> (c) Unless otherwise authorized by the Administrator in special operating
> limitations, no person may operate an aircraft that has an experimental
> certificate over a densely populated area or in a congested airway. The
> Administrator may issue special operating limitations for particular
> aircraft to permit takeoffs and landings to be conducted over a densely
> populated area or in a congested airway, in accordance with terms and
> conditions specified in the authorization in the interest of safety in air
> commerce.
>
>
> 61.3 Requirement for certificates, ratings, and authorizations.
> e) Instrument rating. No person may act as pilot in command of a civil
> aircraft under IFR or in weather conditions less than the minimums
> prescribed for VFR flight unless that person holds:
>
> (1) The appropriate aircraft category, class, type (if required), and
> instrument rating on that person's pilot certificate for any airplane,
> helicopter, or powered-lift being flown;
>
> From the AIM:
> 4-4-7. IFR Clearance VFR-on-top
> a. A pilot on an IFR flight plan operating in VFR weather conditions, may
> request VFR-on-top in lieu of an assigned altitude. This permits a pilot to
> select an altitude or flight level of their choice (subject to any ATC
> restrictions.)
> b. Pilots desiring to climb through a cloud, haze, smoke, or other
> meteorological formation and then either cancel their IFR flight plan or
> operate VFR-on-top may request a climb to VFR-on-top. The ATC authorization
> shall contain either a top report or a statement that no top report is
> available, and a request to report reaching VFR-on-top. Additionally, the
> ATC authorization may contain a clearance limit, routing and an alternative
> clearance if VFR-on-top is not reached by a specified altitude.
>
> If you have less than VFR weather, the aircraft and pilot have to be
> instrument qualified and current to file or receive an IFR clearance.
> VFR-on-top is a clearance for aircraft equipped a little better than the
> normal Kolb.
>
> I added the emphasis and want to make sure every pilot knows that this is
> not the entire FAR's.
>
> If you want to make the Wal Mart parking lot or the Interstate Highway your
> emergency landing location that's fine with me and the FAA, IAW FAR 91.3. I
> just think you are doing an injustice to the persons and property on the
> ground to minimize the damage to an airplane.
>
> Safety First; to your passengers, to the folks on the ground, then to you
> and lastly the airplane.
>
> This is just my opinion, which is as good or bad as anyone else's.
>
>
> John Williamson
> Arlington, TX
>
> Kolb Kolbra, Rotax 912ULS, 839 hours
> http://home.comcast.net/~kolbrapilot
>
> do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 31
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Engines and Reliability |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dennis Souder" <flykolb@pa.net>
Rusty,
Very sporadic lurker here ...
Not sure what AFAIK means, but if it means just a lot of talk - you are
probably pretty close to nailing it. Actually, the more I thought about it,
the thought of putting an engine up front bothered me more and more. I
couldn't bear to put an engine up front and spoil the beautiful view. If I
were ever to do a twin, it would be just like the ultrastar configuration
with one engine to each side instead of one on centerline. I'd use
Swiderski's tallllll gear. Completely open and just for flying low over the
valleys and rivers and doing outrageous climb-outs. I'd like to race the
airboats on the Susquehanna - side-by-side. But John is too right, a twin
has many negatives compared to singles. But the advantages of a twin do
offer some intriguing possibilities. All depends upon what you want to do
with it.
Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rusty
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Engines and Reliability
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Rusty" <13brv3c@bellsouth.net>
> | Kolb needs to build a twin the more I think about this.
Funny, but Dennis and I talked about this years ago. I've always wanted a
centerline thrust twin, and figured that cheap (they used to be cheap) Rotax
engines would be fine, since the chance of both failing at once would be
slim.
As it turned out, Dennis already had a SS cage, and two 532 engines that he
planned to make into such a beast. He was going to mount one in the normal
location, and one up front, then fly from the rear seat. AFAIK, he never
started working on it.
Cheers,
Rusty
Mazda 13B rotary powered RV-3 (flying, until Dennis gets here)
Kolb Slingshot (Mazda single rotor project, damaged by Ivan, waiting for
Dennis)
Message 32
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Twin Kolb Mark IV |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Todd Fredricks <flyingfox@copper.net>
Well the Air Cam has no specifically nasty tendencies. Pulling an engine is
a non-event in the machine. It has a lot of tail, the elevator is mounted
high and its engines are mounted very close to one another. There is double
the cost of engines but you reach over, pull the go lever back and you feel
a slight pull into the 'bad' engine and then you keep flying.
The thing is that because the engines are mounted nearly centerline and they
each have enough power to fly the machine you really get a lot of insurance
out of the package with little in terms of the conventional twin "scariness"
though I would hasten to add that aside from the conspicuous absence of
sound, an engine out in the C-12 is pretty unremarkable because of the
autofeather system and even on the Seminole I trained in it was noticeable
but as long as you keep it as blue line or above you are fine.
I wouldn't want to fly any twin without some instruction but I think a
bigger Kolb with twin engines would be awesome as another alternative. If I
could figure out the cage geometry and had a modicum of engineering ability
I would love to build one myself.
You might gain some greater efficiency as well by moving both fans outward
and into cleaner air.
Just my thoughts.
Todd
On 7/8/05 9:36 PM, "Dennis Souder" <flykolb@pa.net> wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dennis Souder" <flykolb@pa.net>
>
> Rusty,
>
> Very sporadic lurker here ...
>
> Not sure what AFAIK means, but if it means just a lot of talk - you are
> probably pretty close to nailing it. Actually, the more I thought about it,
> the thought of putting an engine up front bothered me more and more. I
> couldn't bear to put an engine up front and spoil the beautiful view. If I
> were ever to do a twin, it would be just like the ultrastar configuration
> with one engine to each side instead of one on centerline. I'd use
> Swiderski's tallllll gear. Completely open and just for flying low over the
> valleys and rivers and doing outrageous climb-outs. I'd like to race the
> airboats on the Susquehanna - side-by-side. But John is too right, a twin
> has many negatives compared to singles. But the advantages of a twin do
> offer some intriguing possibilities. All depends upon what you want to do
> with it.
>
> Dennis
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rusty
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Engines and Reliability
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Rusty" <13brv3c@bellsouth.net>
>
>> | Kolb needs to build a twin the more I think about this.
>
>
> Funny, but Dennis and I talked about this years ago. I've always wanted a
> centerline thrust twin, and figured that cheap (they used to be cheap) Rotax
> engines would be fine, since the chance of both failing at once would be
> slim.
>
> As it turned out, Dennis already had a SS cage, and two 532 engines that he
> planned to make into such a beast. He was going to mount one in the normal
> location, and one up front, then fly from the rear seat. AFAIK, he never
> started working on it.
>
> Cheers,
> Rusty
> Mazda 13B rotary powered RV-3 (flying, until Dennis gets here)
> Kolb Slingshot (Mazda single rotor project, damaged by Ivan, waiting for
> Dennis)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
Message 33
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Engines and Reliability |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Rusty" <13brv3c@bellsouth.net>
Not sure what AFAIK means, but if it means just a lot of talk - you are
probably pretty close to nailing it.
---------------
It's always a pleasure to hear from you Dennis, unless your name is preceded
by "hurricane" :-)
"AFAIK" means- As Far As I Know. Now call off your storm :-)
Rusty
Do not archive or live in Navarre during hurricane season
Message 34
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Engines and Reliability |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Todd Fredricks <flyingfox@copper.net>
Something of interest. Try this link
http://www.spectrumaircraft.com/g_a36vulcan.shtml
I think Kolb could do better.
On 7/8/05 9:36 PM, "Dennis Souder" <flykolb@pa.net> wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dennis Souder" <flykolb@pa.net>
>
> Rusty,
>
> Very sporadic lurker here ...
>
> Not sure what AFAIK means, but if it means just a lot of talk - you are
> probably pretty close to nailing it. Actually, the more I thought about it,
> the thought of putting an engine up front bothered me more and more. I
> couldn't bear to put an engine up front and spoil the beautiful view. If I
> were ever to do a twin, it would be just like the ultrastar configuration
> with one engine to each side instead of one on centerline. I'd use
> Swiderski's tallllll gear. Completely open and just for flying low over the
> valleys and rivers and doing outrageous climb-outs. I'd like to race the
> airboats on the Susquehanna - side-by-side. But John is too right, a twin
> has many negatives compared to singles. But the advantages of a twin do
> offer some intriguing possibilities. All depends upon what you want to do
> with it.
>
> Dennis
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rusty
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Engines and Reliability
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Rusty" <13brv3c@bellsouth.net>
>
>> | Kolb needs to build a twin the more I think about this.
>
>
> Funny, but Dennis and I talked about this years ago. I've always wanted a
> centerline thrust twin, and figured that cheap (they used to be cheap) Rotax
> engines would be fine, since the chance of both failing at once would be
> slim.
>
> As it turned out, Dennis already had a SS cage, and two 532 engines that he
> planned to make into such a beast. He was going to mount one in the normal
> location, and one up front, then fly from the rear seat. AFAIK, he never
> started working on it.
>
> Cheers,
> Rusty
> Mazda 13B rotary powered RV-3 (flying, until Dennis gets here)
> Kolb Slingshot (Mazda single rotor project, damaged by Ivan, waiting for
> Dennis)
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 35
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Engines and Reliability |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Herb Gayheart <herbgh@juno.com>
Group
There was a twin engined Kolb---or twin props; single engined--for
sale in Tenn. Mk III flavor as I recall. Herb
do not archive
Message 36
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Twin Kolb Mark IV |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dennis Souder" <flykolb@pa.net>
Hi Todd,
Good to hear from a fellow twin-hugger.
Actually handling characteristic were not negatives in my thinking as a
close-to-centerline twin need not have these traditional twin vices.
The negatives I was referring to were the ones John Hauck had mentioned -
and they are very valid. Higher cost for engines, more fuel costs, more
maintenance, less payload. For a hard core cruiser like John, the
additional drag and additional fuel cost would be a big deal because payload
and range would decrease with a twin by a substantial margin. (Figure out
the fuel mileage of the Spectrum single vs the twin.)
These negatives are compounded because a twin, for it to be truly redundant,
needs much more power than a single engine aircraft. Because if an engine
quits, the good engine must not only fly the aircraft with its payload, but
it must also carry the weight of the dead engine and the drag of the stopped
prop. Did I mention that more wing area is needed to carry the extra weight
for a given stall speed?
So the properly redundant twin not only needs much more power, but it is
also bigger, heavier and dreggier than its svelte single brother. This
means more power yet.
If a twin does not have adequate single engine performance then you are
twice as likely to come out of the sky due to an engine failure - because
you have twice the probability of having an engine out.
I hope I am not sounding like a twin hater, but this is what makes designing
a twin so maddening - it is a tough nut to crack ... and do it well.
For a round-the-patch flyer like myself, these negatives would not be a big
deal as I would be enjoying the twin's main positive virtue: redundancy
while flying it only as a single-place aircraft.
Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Todd Fredricks
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Twin Kolb Mark IV
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Todd Fredricks <flyingfox@copper.net>
Well the Air Cam has no specifically nasty tendencies. Pulling an engine is
a non-event in the machine. It has a lot of tail, the elevator is mounted
high and its engines are mounted very close to one another. There is double
the cost of engines but you reach over, pull the go lever back and you feel
a slight pull into the 'bad' engine and then you keep flying.
The thing is that because the engines are mounted nearly centerline and they
each have enough power to fly the machine you really get a lot of insurance
out of the package with little in terms of the conventional twin "scariness"
though I would hasten to add that aside from the conspicuous absence of
sound, an engine out in the C-12 is pretty unremarkable because of the
autofeather system and even on the Seminole I trained in it was noticeable
but as long as you keep it as blue line or above you are fine.
I wouldn't want to fly any twin without some instruction but I think a
bigger Kolb with twin engines would be awesome as another alternative. If I
could figure out the cage geometry and had a modicum of engineering ability
I would love to build one myself.
You might gain some greater efficiency as well by moving both fans outward
and into cleaner air.
Just my thoughts.
Todd
Message 37
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Twin Kolb Mark IV |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
think a
| bigger Kolb with twin engines would be awesome as another
alternative. If I
| could figure out the cage geometry and had a modicum of engineering
ability
| I would love to build one myself.
Todd/Gang:
If you want something with two engines and larger than a Kolb, it
would no longer be a Kolb. To me, a Kolb is what Homer Kolb designed,
the airplanes I fly, have flown, and am flying now. Guess I am a
little old fashion and very comfortable with the MKIII from the
Original Kolb Company with a few Jim and John Hauck modifications
thrown in.
I flew single engine aircraft in the US and in RVN when I first
started flying. Had good success with them then, and I continue to
have good success with them now. Keep it as simple as possible. Like
my avionics, the smallest, cheapest ICOM Handheld VHF (A-3) and a GPS,
also hand held. Have demonstrated that is all I need to do what I
want to do with my Kolb.
Todd, you can call your new twin engined aircraft the Fredericks. Be
aware though, most folks on the Kolb List like Kolbs, basically, the
way they are. ;-)
Take care,
john h
MKIII/912ULS
Titus, Alabama
Finished building 13.5 years ago, but not finished having fun.
PS: Maybe you should learn to fly a Kolb before you redesign it.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 38
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
Ron wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: Ron <CaptainRon1@cox.net>
>
>I second that observation, few young pilots here in Southern Arizona.
>My firm belief is that the FAA and the Liberals (lawyers, effeminates)
>have created such a hostile environment to aviation that there is no
>fun, and little freedom near the big metro areas anymore. Nowadays the
>anti terrorist paranoia creates an even greater anti aviation sentiment
>out there.
>In short between the FAA, the insurance industry, the lawyers and now
>Homeland Security
>( another name for Gestapo ) its an amazing thing we can still fly.
>
>Do not archive
>
I'm running about 2 weeks behind on my email, so forgive if this has
already been said.
I'm no fan of 'Liberals' as you apparently define them.
However:
I've taken a long hard look at who has instituted most of the stuff you
are complaining about. First, the current (neo)conservative
administration created the organization you've so aptly nicknamed
'Gestapo'. Are you aware that the current administration vigorously
opposed the bill to arm pilots in the cockpit, & only signed it into law
when it had so many conditions & restrictions that airline pilots must
be treated like mentally deviant terrorists to get certified? That the
Gestapo-oriented Homeland Security chiefs and Attorneys General have all
been appointed by the current administration?
That the current administration 'outed' an undercover CIA agent (this is
an act of treason) to retaliate against her husband, who 'blew the
whistle' on the fabricated story about Iraq attempting to buy nuclear
material from an African country? That Robert Novak, who wrote the 1st
story actually outing the agent, citing '2 high level members of the
administration' as his sources, has never been pressured by the Justice
Dept to reveal who gave him the information but 2 other reporters who
basically wrote about Novak's story have been threatened with contempt &
one of them has actually been jailed for not revealing her sources?
That the 'Patriot' Act (written by our neoconservative administration),
in conflict with our constitution, allows the government to go to a
'secret court' and obtain 'warrants' to force a librarian or book store
owner to reveal what books you read and *never* notify you that you are
being investigated? That if the librarian refuses or tells you that you
have been investigated, the librarian goes to jail? Telling me that
'inherent goodness' of government keeps them from misusing this power
holds no water for me.
Did you know that FBI agents visited many members of organizations
opposed to the current administration before the Republican National
Convention & attempted to intimidate them into not demonstrating at the
convention? (No such action was taken against potential protesters prior
to the Democratic Convention.)
Did you know that every person who attends any GW Bush 'town meeting' is
screened, not just for security but for loyalty to the Republican
platform & that uniformed Boy Scouts with tickets (tickets?!) to a Bush
stadium rally were evicted from the rally when organizers noticed that
they had previously attended a Democratic rally? They were told that
they were a 'security risk' literally because they had attended an
earlier Democratic campaign function. Their troop leader (a Republican,
IIRC) was attempting to help them learn about the democratic process by
seeing both sides of issues.
Remember, history shows that most totalitarian states have risen under
the control of ultra right-wing governments, not left wing. All it
usually takes is getting the population to fear something enough to hand
control of their lives over to their government. Sound familiar?
BTW, if you are a vet, who's cutting your benefits right now?
Charlie
card-carrying pragmatist
Message 39
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
At 07:02 PM 7/8/05 -0400, you wrote:
<snip>
>I ALWAYS try to keep a 4-lane within reach. because its a great smooth
>surface
>to aim for. <snip>
I deleted the name of the author of this post because he is only typical of
several posts saying more or less the same thing. I have a problem with
this. When we fly, we take the risk for what we do upon ourself. An engine
out in the vicinity of a highway involves some serious moral choices. The
soccer mom in the SUV, the trucker trying to stay awake, the goober driving
the whatever should not become part of our potential disaster. I submit to
the list that unless you are absolutely, positively certain that there are
no vehicles on a road anywhere close to whatever your outcome might be,
then you better plan to stuff your Kolb into the trees next to the road and
leave the people driving on the roads alone. They didn't ask you to go fly,
and they don't need to be part of your failure mode. Any attempt at saving
your own butt that might very well put someone elses into the median upside
down in the process is unconscionable.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
do not archive
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|