Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:02 AM - smoke systems (Oscar Zuniga)
2. 07:13 AM - Re: smoke systems (Michael D Cuy)
3. 08:02 AM - Re: smoke systems (Bill Church)
4. 05:12 PM - Re: Ben Charvet's Piet/Douglas fir (PIETLARS29@wmconnect.com)
5. 05:16 PM - Re: Stromberg needles for Continental engines (Wizzard187@aol.com)
6. 05:16 PM - Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 03/28/05 (thomas steinbrenner)
7. 09:08 PM - Re: smoke systems (Rcaprd@aol.com)
Message 1
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
I know that those of you with smoke systems have different approaches
(single-port, multi-port, etc.) and would like to hear a bit about
endurance. Mike Cuy's system has a single injection port into one exhaust
stack from a hand-pumped lawn sprayer arrangement. I think Chuck's system
is multi-port. What I'm wondering about is how far a given amount of smoke
oil will go. Some measure of "smoke minutes per quart" or something to give
me an indication of how large a smoke reservoir to go with.
I'm going single-port on my system. I like the looks of the "chain of
puffs" smoke that Mike's system puts out, and assume that the picture at
http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/smoke02.jpg is a picture of Mike's plane in
action?
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: smoke systems |
Oscar-- I went with a single fitting welded to my exhaust stack----the
right rear stack as viewed from the cockpit.
The reason I did this is that the rear stacks are not cooled as much as
the front from prop blast and because they
hold more heat due to the heat muff just below at the Y. My fitting is
welded as high as possible (about 1" below the
exhaust flange) where the gasses are the hottest. You want complete
vaporization of the smoke oil--the hotter the better.
During my experimentation I simply purchased a Better Homes & Garden 2
quart poly pump-up bug sprayer from the Wal
Mart garden dept. I unscrewed and discarded the wand/hose, cut off the
handle with a hacksaw and filed it, (so it would not ding up my
rear seat wood/varnish when it sits next to my right hip) then adapted a
auto rubber hose to the sprayer nozzle then down to
some 1/4" od steel tubing. I squeezed the end of the steel tube and
folded it over to block the end. I then drilled 1/8" hole
near the end of the blocked end. I pumped up the smoker and stuck this
"wand" up my exhaust port until it was about 1"
from the exhaust flange. I clamped the tube to my exhaust stack, fired up
the engine, (with the plane tied down) and ran
the throttle to about 1800 rpm... then hit the thumb button and
injected. Wayyy too much smoke. Actually way too much
un-burned oil making a mess all over the place. After much
experimentation I ended up with welding the fitting to the
exhaust stack and drilling two number 60 drill holes side by side thru my
exhaust stack wall.
As you can see it works fairly well and I'd have to say that with a two
quart poly bottle I can do say 8 runs with smoke on
down a 3,000 foot runway. Your mileage may vary.
If you go with the pneumatic system you 'll find that you can't fill the
bug sprayer all the way because you need about 2" of
air to pump up above the oil. Then between smoke jobs you find that the
intensity of the smoke trail decreases with pressure
in the bottle as you would expect. You'll have fun gauging how long you
can do on a certain feel to the pump-up resistance.
What is fun to to tell the passenger to look over the right side of the
cockpit and then put the smoke on doing a right turn.
You tell them to look back over the tail and they can see the speed of the
plane with how fast the smoke trail goes off
behind us. It is a cool thing to watch.
Most of my smoke fun is had coming back from fly-in's. I'll see a kids
softball game, a back yard picnic, outdoor
wedding reception, or Boy Scout camp out going on and I usually throttle
back, get to about 600 feet and go thru
a few ye-haws and smoke on wifferdils. Just great fun.
MIke C.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: smoke systems |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Bill Church <eng@canadianrogers.com>
Oscar,
This site doesn't mention anything about tank capacity or "fuel economy",
but is informative nonetheless.
http://www.kcdawnpatrol.org/smoke.htm
Bill
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Ben Charvet's Piet/Douglas fir |
Ben,
meant to get in touch with you sooner re: local lumber sources in central
Florida. I am still (9 years) plugging along on my Piet and I made it
almostcompletely out of Doug Fir. I found that 84 Lumber has clear fir 2 x4's
up
to 20 feet. Als ogt some clear fir 2 x 4's from local yards that cater to
custom home builders; these were in Orlando and Winter Park.
I live in the country South of Tavares. right now I am making a hoist
frame so I can install my Ford 'A' in the airframe. I need to get the CG
determined so I can proceed with the cowling sheet metal. The piet is covered
and
the fabric is painted.
I used fir for all of the structural members: laminated my spars (8 strips)
out of 3/4" fir and made the longerons out of 15/16" pieces. I found that
all fir is not created equal and its possible to find some that is no more
than 10% heavier that the nominal spruce density. I found that I could get 8
spar strips out of one 2 x 4. and the leading and trailing edge pieces all
from a single 2 x 4.
Did you know that the EAA Chapter in Merrit Island is building a Piet?
Bear in mind that bernie made his design 'hell for stout' (somewhat over
designed) so in my opinion the wood choice is not super critical except for
keeping the weight down. After all Charley Rubeck has made and sold a ton of
Piet ribs , made of red cedar and Larry Harrison made a whole Piet out Poplar.
Good Luck
Lou Larsen
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Stromberg needles for Continental engines |
Pieters, I just read the neat article on stromberg carbs and the seats
used with auto gas and wonder if anyone has any info for Marvel Shebler with
probably the same neropreme needles. Thanks, Ken Conrad in nearly spring
Iowa
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 03/28/05 |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "thomas steinbrenner" <psatom@webtv.net>
Tom. Ref. the Piet Aircamper you want to sell from the estate of your friend. The
Hiller Air Museum at San Carlos Airport just south of the San Francisco airport
has a complete Pietenpol Air Camper on display, and their restorers would
probably be glad to help. Take the Redwood Shores exit off of 101.
Tom
Vacaville
-----Original Message-----
From: Pietenpol-List Digest Server
Subject: Pietenpol-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 03/28/05
*
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Total Messages Posted Mon 03/28/05: 14
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:36 AM - Re: Teen Builder (Bernadette)
2. 05:54 AM - San Fran Piet Project....guy needs assistance selling......
(Michael D Cuy)
3. 06:40 AM - Cabane diagonal struts (Rick Holland)
4. 08:34 AM - Re: C-90 Piet (Steve Eldredge)
5. 10:27 AM - Re: Re: Teen Builder (Gordon Bowen)
6. 11:02 AM - smoke systems (Oscar Zuniga)
7. 11:24 AM - Re: smoke systems (Jim Markle)
8. 12:13 PM - Re: smoke systems (Michael D Cuy)
9. 05:03 PM - Re: teen builder (TRichmo9@aol.com)
10. 06:41 PM - Ben Charvet's Piet/Douglas fir (Oscar Zuniga)
11. 07:45 PM - Re: Ben Charvet's Piet/Douglas fir (Ben Charvet)
12. 07:48 PM - Splicing fuselage longerons? (Ben Charvet)
13. 09:09 PM - Re: Splicing fuselage longerons? ()
14. 11:15 PM - Re: Splicing fuselage longerons? (Galen Hutcheson)
________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
Time: 04:36:47 AM PST US
From: "Bernadette" <docfont@voyager.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Teen Builder
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Bernadette" <docfont@voyager.net>
> From: "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen@ptialaska.net>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: teen builder
>
> Tom,
> I think building a homebuilt can be a great character builder for any
young man
> and the original wooden Piete is a great place to start.
> are all that's needed. If you're anywhere near Satsuma FL, I'll give the
> young Eagle enough rough cut Sitka spruce to get started, if he's got
the wood
> working tools and desire to buy a set of plans. Building a plane
can start a lifetime
> of love of aviation, even if it takes a lifetime getting done.
> Gordon Bowen -Homer Alaska
Greetings Gordon and the rest of the list
My Son is 10 and we are starting on a homebuilt. Plan is to build it on
the low budget system over the next mumble mumble years so it should be
ready to get him a sport pilot license when he is old enough. Low budget
because I am back in the poor college student phase of my life again
adding an RN degree to what I already have. Secondary plan is to use it
to show how all of this homeschool book learning stuff works in real
life. Tertiary plan is to use it as a way to teach him to use all the
fun toys in my harp, spinning wheel and medievil armor building shop.
Matthew is now 10 and has been helping me in the shop for years. At
first it was just, "Hand me that phillips screwdriver" type things but
he learned the names off all the tools. At 8 it was drill press,
catching boards coming out of the planer and power hand tools like the
router. Last year at age 9 he got to turn some simple pieces on the
metal lathe and started on the band saw. This year I will start on some
of the other saws and let him make some things he can sell on ebay and
at renassaince faires.
I've been involved with the renassaince faire/SCA market for 25 years.
That's me mentioned on the Argent Fox Harps webpage; www.argentfox.com/
We have lots of tools to play with. I noticed he's picked up 2 quotes
from time spent together in the shop. "I do good work." and "Uh, don't
tell mom." I noticed him using those expressions I normally use last
spring while we were building a big carved wooden sign and a 2'
illuminated clock that went with it.
Our plane project is a Woodys Pusher not a Pietenpol. Similar in terms
of speed and performance. The Woodys Pusher was designed in a time when
a lot of builders did not have a shop full of tools so many of the parts
were simplified. The Pietenpol is better designed in some ways so I am
using bits of pieces, like truss wing ribs in my project.
Gordon, can I buy a bit of that spruce next month? Woulda started buying
wood this month but my tuition was due last week. Next year Matthew will
be 12 by July and we planned to send him to EAA's aviation camp for a
week. I know a great kid who can use a few of those Young Eagle points
to help pay his tuition to camp if you know anyone with EAA Young Eagle
points.
DocFont, EAA 77755
yep, I think a 5 digit EAA number puts me in old timer, but not quite
geezer status
________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
Time: 05:54:31 AM PST US
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: San Fran Piet Project....guy needs assistance selling......
tlc1@well.com writes
>I am the executor of an estate of an elderly friend here in San Francisco.
>The estate includes a partially-built Pietenpol. I am seeking advice on
>how I might sell the Piet and what it might be worth. I think it is an Air
>Camper. The fuselage is complete, as is one wing and (I think) the
>elevators and rudder. There are wheels, too, but no engine. The components
>are located in San Francisco. I would appreciate any advice you might give
>me on how best to dispose of it. Are there any Pietenpol afficianados or
>experts here in the Bay Area that might be able to take a look at the Piet?
>
>
>Best regards,
>
>Tom Chester
>
>-----------------
>Thomas L. Chester
>1972 Tenth Avenue
>San Francisco, CA 94116
>(415) 665-7520, Cell (415) 806-3517
________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________
Time: 06:40:16 AM PST US
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft@gmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cabane diagonal struts
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rick Holland <at7000ft@gmail.com>
What size round 4130 tubing would be adequate for the cabane diagonal
struts (to the top engine mount fitting)? I have some 3/4" .058 and
some 1" .049 laying around. Also, is their a tubing strength
comparison chart on line somewhere showing the different diameter/wall
thickness sizes?
Thanks
--
Rick Holland
________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________
Time: 08:34:16 AM PST US
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: C-90 Piet
From: "Steve Eldredge" <steve@byu.edu>
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Steve Eldredge" <steve@byu.edu>
I want to do this too. Been thinking of the 0-200.
Stevee
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
clawler@ptd.net
Subject: Pietenpol-List: C-90 Piet
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: clawler@ptd.net
I upgraded my C-65 Piet to a C-90 from Don's Dream Machine's in
Georgia. Flew it with the new engine installed today. I haven't carried
a passenger yet, but the performance is improved dramatically. It's
getting of the ground in the length of the turnaround at the end the
runway. Might be 150ft. I'm not sure about the rate of climb, but I'm
flying of a 1,200ft strip and the angle of climb improved a bunch too.
I should be just fine with a normal sized passenger now. Should have
done this a long time ago.
Craig Lawler
________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________
Time: 10:27:56 AM PST US
From: "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen@ptialaska.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Teen Builder
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen@ptialaska.net>
To support any Young Eagles or well motivated "teenbuilder" who has adequate
motivation and supervision, I'll donate the wood currently in FL. It's
all excellent 2 yr dryed Kachemak Bay AK Sika spruce. But- rough cut 8.5'
max length (that's the length of my pickup bed), most 3/4" and some 1 1/2"
thick, varies from 4" to 8" wide. Mostly knot free but some small tight
knots. The problem for anyone interested is: 3-400 bf is in the hanger
Palatka FL, you gotta get it yourself somehow. My co-builder of Piete
N-1033B is at the airport everyday, contact Floyd at 386-325-3208, if you'd
like to come and pickup some wood, just put it to the good use of building
tomorrow's aviators.
Each year around Nov. I come south from Homer AK and bring down some wood
for friends that ask for it. It's all rough cut directly from the sawmill,
but hand selected by one of the most environmentally smart and wood savey
sawmillers I've ever had the pleasure go getting to know. It's excellent
wood for homebuilders who what to make something meaningful. So, if any of
you have good Young Eagles projects afoot and need wood, contact me prior to
Nov. each year and I'll see what I can do to get it to you for least cost or
free.
Gordon Bowen -Homer Alaska
Cozy IV N64CY
Osprey II N64SY
Pietenpol N-1033B
"Fanaticism consists of redoubling your efforts when you have forgotten your
aim"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bernadette" <docfont@voyager.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Teen Builder
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Bernadette" <docfont@voyager.net>
>
> > From: "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen@ptialaska.net>
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: teen builder
> >
> > Tom,
> > I think building a homebuilt can be a great character builder for any
> young man
> > and the original wooden Piete is a great place to start.
> > are all that's needed. If you're anywhere near Satsuma FL, I'll give
the
> > young Eagle enough rough cut Sitka spruce to get started, if he's got
> the wood
> > working tools and desire to buy a set of plans. Building a plane
> can start a lifetime
> > of love of aviation, even if it takes a lifetime getting done.
> > Gordon Bowen -Homer Alaska
>
> Greetings Gordon and the rest of the list
>
> My Son is 10 and we are starting on a homebuilt. Plan is to build it on
> the low budget system over the next mumble mumble years so it should be
> ready to get him a sport pilot license when he is old enough. Low budget
> because I am back in the poor college student phase of my life again
> adding an RN degree to what I already have. Secondary plan is to use it
> to show how all of this homeschool book learning stuff works in real
> life. Tertiary plan is to use it as a way to teach him to use all the
> fun toys in my harp, spinning wheel and medievil armor building shop.
>
> Matthew is now 10 and has been helping me in the shop for years. At
> first it was just, "Hand me that phillips screwdriver" type things but
> he learned the names off all the tools. At 8 it was drill press,
> catching boards coming out of the planer and power hand tools like the
> router. Last year at age 9 he got to turn some simple pieces on the
> metal lathe and started on the band saw. This year I will start on some
> of the other saws and let him make some things he can sell on ebay and
> at renassaince faires.
>
> I've been involved with the renassaince faire/SCA market for 25 years.
> That's me mentioned on the Argent Fox Harps webpage; www.argentfox.com/
> We have lots of tools to play with. I noticed he's picked up 2 quotes
> from time spent together in the shop. "I do good work." and "Uh, don't
> tell mom." I noticed him using those expressions I normally use last
> spring while we were building a big carved wooden sign and a 2'
> illuminated clock that went with it.
>
> Our plane project is a Woodys Pusher not a Pietenpol. Similar in terms
> of speed and performance. The Woodys Pusher was designed in a time when
> a lot of builders did not have a shop full of tools so many of the parts
> were simplified. The Pietenpol is better designed in some ways so I am
> using bits of pieces, like truss wing ribs in my project.
>
> Gordon, can I buy a bit of that spruce next month? Woulda started buying
> wood this month but my tuition was due last week. Next year Matthew will
> be 12 by July and we planned to send him to EAA's aviation camp for a
> week. I know a great kid who can use a few of those Young Eagle points
> to help pay his tuition to camp if you know anyone with EAA Young Eagle
> points.
>
> DocFont, EAA 77755
> yep, I think a 5 digit EAA number puts me in old timer, but not quite
> geezer status
>
>
________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________
Time: 11:02:30 AM PST US
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: smoke systems
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Howdy, Pieters;
I'm working on a smoke system for 41CC but in the meantime, for you smoke
fanatics who can handle video clips, you can take a look at a different type
of smoke system here (it's about a 1MB file):
http://www.flysquirrel.net/Babypowder.mpeg
If you've ever been around infants, you'll understand this (I'm from a
family of 10 kids myself).
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________
Time: 11:24:36 AM PST US
From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: smoke systems
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
My neighbors are wondering what all the laughing is about....
This is great.....
Reminds me of some of the other not so pleasent "oops" occurances I've
experienced during "the process".....this is MUCH more tolerable.....
jm
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: smoke systems
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga"
> <taildrags@hotmail.com>
>
> Howdy, Pieters;
>
> I'm working on a smoke system for 41CC but in the meantime, for you smoke
> fanatics who can handle video clips, you can take a look at a different
> type of smoke system here (it's about a 1MB file):
> http://www.flysquirrel.net/Babypowder.mpeg
>
> If you've ever been around infants, you'll understand this (I'm from a
> family of 10 kids myself).
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________
Time: 12:13:55 PM PST US
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: smoke systems
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
Oscar--where did you get that clip of Chuck Gantzer as a baby ?? That's
where his love for smoke all began, you know !
The connection is in the fact that he uses baby oil for smoke oil !
His new sponsor this year on the Tour America is Johnson & Johnson. I
also hear they are going to help him out
should he land at the party cove:))
Smoke em' if you got 'em, Chuck ! I'm packing the smoke oil for BHead
this year. Weather permitting.
Mike C.
do not archive
________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________
Time: 05:03:20 PM PST US
From: TRichmo9@aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: teen builder
In a message dated 3/28/05 12:25:56 A.M. Central Standard Time,
Hopperdhh@aol.com writes:
Mike,
Be careful. Pretty soon he'll be giving you lessons! It happened to me.
My oldest son helped me with my stock car racing when he was about 6 to age
15. Now he knows more about it than me! (He just turned 43.) We still
share our interest in automotive things. I can't imagine what kind of
relationship we'd have without that.
I think you did the right thing by letting him work on his own. Sounds like
a great father-son project.
do not archive
Dan Hopper
Walton, IN
RV-7A (Flying - being painted now)
Have the plans for a Piet. It will be Corvair powered.
In a message dated 3/27/05 8:54:20 P.M. US Eastern Standard Time,
mmccarty@zianet.com writes:
He'll need a lot of perseverance to see it through to completion. I had the
skills to do something
like this as a teen, but I think it would have been hard for me to see a
project of this size through
to the final product.
I have a 14 year old whose only interest right now is to get this Corvair
engine together and see it run.
We put a long block together and then the Air Force sent me off to Flight
Engineer school last week
for the next six weeks. He's just itching for me to get back so we can
wrench on it. Somewhere along
the way I realized that we didn't orient the pistons properly and that we
need to take it apart and flip half
the pistons over. I was going to help him do it when I got back home.
After reading your post and thinking
about the things I was doing by myself when I was a young teen (building
motors, doing bodywork,
doing carpentry, plumbing and electrical work) I realized that I don't give
him enough leeway to let him
go and learn some of these things on his own. I'm always there supervising
him and if he runs into
trouble doing something I do it for him. As a result he doesn't have a lot
of confidence in being able
to accomplish anything on his own After thinking it over I called him and
told him to go ahead and
disassemble the motor and turn the pistons over. I know he can do it, it's
just the matter of letting
him do it on his own...
-Mike McCarty
mike after your first email it hit me that's how i treated my first son. it
was hard to walk away sometimes and let him muddle through problems, but it
worked out his 87 jaguar does a 13 second quarter mile and will top out at 175
mph on the road, only seen it once.but he did it all,and it gets 20 mpg.and
you know hes a national champion competive trailrider ,and just took first at
a national karate meet .so he turned out ok
thanks for your emails
________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________
Time: 06:41:32 PM PST US
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ben Charvet's Piet/Douglas fir
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Ben wrote-
>I built an entire fuselage mock-up with some lumber yard douglas fir
>that I bought before I really knew what the recommendations were
>as far as grain slope, etc.
I looked at Ben's construction photos and everything looks real nice to me.
But beyond that, I am going to stick my neck waaaay out and ask why in the
world build that nice fuselage mock-up only to discard it due to some of the
wood grain slope being "out of spec"? It's fine to build a mock-up out of
scrap for trying out different configurations of things, and it's fine to do
it for the sheer practice and learning to build, but I don't believe I've
every read anything that says the grain slope is critical for any reason
other than to control twist/warpage due to changes in moisture content of
the wood UNLESS we're talking about wing spars. For a truss structure like
the fuselage, with short spans and everything cross-braced, grain slope as a
factor leading to twist or warpage would not only be insignificant, it would
have to all even itself out unless you intentionally aligned all the pieces
with the grain in the same direction... not very likely with that many small
pieces.
There are differences in bending strength when comparing loading parallel or
perpendicular to the grain, but for the fuselage structure where the loads
are tension/compression, I don't see that it would make a bit of difference.
If the stock is clear, knot-free, and has tight grain, I'd like to hear
(for the purpose of my own education) why it wouldn't be suitable for the
fuselage truss structure or even for the tail feathers (braced structures).
I will say this about Douglas fir though... it's a pain to make holes in it
when you're not drilling counter to the grain ("through the layers"). The
layers of grain differ significantly in hardness and the "hard layers" grab
your drill bit and offset the hole you're trying to drill if you don't use a
guide or a short, stiff bit with the work held securely. Having built the
entire structure of my "Flying Squirrel" out of 3/4" square stock fir, I've
made my share of slightly offset holes!
>There are three other Piets under construction within 40 miles of me
I must have missed it in your post. Where are you located?
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________
Time: 07:45:50 PM PST US
From: "Ben Charvet" <bcharvet@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Ben Charvet's Piet/Douglas fir
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ben Charvet" <bcharvet@bellsouth.net>
Well, the mock-up looks real good in person too....and you're not the first
person to ask why the wood wasn't good enough. The grain run-out problems
were within a foot of the end of the longerons on 2 or 3 of them. If it had
been in the middle I might have been willing to take the chance. I figured
I had a chance of breaking off the tail in a hard landing, or losing the
engine and having a severe out of balance problem :). It probably would
have been fine, but at that stage of the project I wasn't sure if it was
wise to make such a compromise. Also, I hadn't made many connections at EAA
866 yet. Probably should have had one of the local builders look at it.
Anyway, after I figured it was just a mockup, I used cheap plywood, and
carpenter's glue to put the thing together, so it really is just a mockup
now.
I live in Mims, Fl, which is just north of Titusville (next to Kennedy Space
Center)
I need to update the website. I made rib# 12 tonight and bought a corvair
motor for $100 today. My progress has been slowed by the illness and death
of my father Good Friday. He's the guy standing in my shop in one of the
last pictures on the website. That was the last time he was in my shop and
he will be sorely missed.
Ben
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ben Charvet's Piet/Douglas fir
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga"
<taildrags@hotmail.com>
>
> Ben wrote-
>
> >I built an entire fuselage mock-up with some lumber yard douglas fir
> >that I bought before I really knew what the recommendations were
> >as far as grain slope, etc.
>
> I looked at Ben's construction photos and everything looks real nice to
me.
> But beyond that, I am going to stick my neck waaaay out and ask why in the
> world build that nice fuselage mock-up only to discard it due to some of
the
> wood grain slope being "out of spec"? It's fine to build a mock-up out of
> scrap for trying out different configurations of things, and it's fine to
do
> it for the sheer practice and learning to build, but I don't believe I've
> every read anything that says the grain slope is critical for any reason
> other than to control twist/warpage due to changes in moisture content of
> the wood UNLESS we're talking about wing spars. For a truss structure
like
> the fuselage, with short spans and everything cross-braced, grain slope as
a
> factor leading to twist or warpage would not only be insignificant, it
would
> have to all even itself out unless you intentionally aligned all the
pieces
> with the grain in the same direction... not very likely with that many
small
> pieces.
>
> There are differences in bending strength when comparing loading parallel
or
> perpendicular to the grain, but for the fuselage structure where the loads
> are tension/compression, I don't see that it would make a bit of
difference.
> If the stock is clear, knot-free, and has tight grain, I'd like to hear
> (for the purpose of my own education) why it wouldn't be suitable for the
> fuselage truss structure or even for the tail feathers (braced
structures).
>
> I will say this about Douglas fir though... it's a pain to make holes in
it
> when you're not drilling counter to the grain ("through the layers"). The
> layers of grain differ significantly in hardness and the "hard layers"
grab
> your drill bit and offset the hole you're trying to drill if you don't use
a
> guide or a short, stiff bit with the work held securely. Having built the
> entire structure of my "Flying Squirrel" out of 3/4" square stock fir,
I've
> made my share of slightly offset holes!
>
> >There are three other Piets under construction within 40 miles of me
>
> I must have missed it in your post. Where are you located?
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________
Time: 07:48:00 PM PST US
From: "Ben Charvet" <bcharvet@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Splicing fuselage longerons?
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ben Charvet" <bcharvet@bellsouth.net>
Hi all,
Gordon has some sitka spruce available pretty near to me. Anyone out there
have any opinions or experience/advice about splicing fuselage longerons? I
read in the EAA wood book that some designs call for laminating up the
longerons, and It looks like a 16:1 scarf might work. What do you think?
Ben
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ben Charvet's Piet/Douglas fir
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga"
<taildrags@hotmail.com>
>
> Ben wrote-
>
> >I built an entire fuselage mock-up with some lumber yard douglas fir
> >that I bought before I really knew what the recommendations were
> >as far as grain slope, etc.
>
> I looked at Ben's construction photos and everything looks real nice to
me.
> But beyond that, I am going to stick my neck waaaay out and ask why in the
> world build that nice fuselage mock-up only to discard it due to some of
the
> wood grain slope being "out of spec"? It's fine to build a mock-up out of
> scrap for trying out different configurations of things, and it's fine to
do
> it for the sheer practice and learning to build, but I don't believe I've
> every read anything that says the grain slope is critical for any reason
> other than to control twist/warpage due to changes in moisture content of
> the wood UNLESS we're talking about wing spars. For a truss structure
like
> the fuselage, with short spans and everything cross-braced, grain slope as
a
> factor leading to twist or warpage would not only be insignificant, it
would
> have to all even itself out unless you intentionally aligned all the
pieces
> with the grain in the same direction... not very likely with that many
small
> pieces.
>
> There are differences in bending strength when comparing loading parallel
or
> perpendicular to the grain, but for the fuselage structure where the loads
> are tension/compression, I don't see that it would make a bit of
difference.
> If the stock is clear, knot-free, and has tight grain, I'd like to hear
> (for the purpose of my own education) why it wouldn't be suitable for the
> fuselage truss structure or even for the tail feathers (braced
structures).
>
> I will say this about Douglas fir though... it's a pain to make holes in
it
> when you're not drilling counter to the grain ("through the layers"). The
> layers of grain differ significantly in hardness and the "hard layers"
grab
> your drill bit and offset the hole you're trying to drill if you don't use
a
> guide or a short, stiff bit with the work held securely. Having built the
> entire structure of my "Flying Squirrel" out of 3/4" square stock fir,
I've
> made my share of slightly offset holes!
>
> >There are three other Piets under construction within 40 miles of me
>
> I must have missed it in your post. Where are you located?
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________
Time: 09:09:26 PM PST US
From: <gcardinal@mn.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Splicing fuselage longerons?
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: <gcardinal@mn.rr.com>
Ben,
The longerons on NX18235 are spliced. Uppers
are spliced in the cockpit area and the
lowers are spliced aft. Splices were located
where the longerons curve the least. The
splices have a slope of 12:1.
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ben
> Charvet" <bcharvet@bellsouth.net>
>
> Hi all,
>
> Gordon has some sitka spruce available
> pretty near to me. Anyone out there
> have any opinions or experience/advice
> about splicing fuselage longerons? I
> read in the EAA wood book that some designs
> call for laminating up the
> longerons, and It looks like a 16:1 scarf
> might work. What do you think?
>
> Ben
________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________
Time: 11:15:58 PM PST US
s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
b=u5RkOeiQYMRPuIEX/jeee0m4sYVHSpK1n5RHhbXjXnf6KpiK+97dlJI14iwsliOgdZSM7jPWpIDaIyo+jrocxvHYQKI1pBHkAl+B+a1y8qkwPrlr23ADLiYIlnv8yj8SynTABL2vYX42NlfrtE6j1wm3gX6gw6G1xsKnLBjjI3k;
From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Splicing fuselage longerons?
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts@yahoo.com>
Ben, Greg is right. 12:1 is good enough. You can
laminate the longerones and they would be stronger,
however, the 1" X 1" spruce is plenty strong enough.
Doc
--- gcardinal@mn.rr.com wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by:
> <gcardinal@mn.rr.com>
>
> Ben,
> The longerons on NX18235 are spliced. Uppers
> are spliced in the cockpit area and the
> lowers are spliced aft. Splices were located
> where the longerons curve the least. The
> splices have a slope of 12:1.
>
> Greg Cardinal
> Minneapolis
>
>
> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ben
> > Charvet" <bcharvet@bellsouth.net>
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Gordon has some sitka spruce available
> > pretty near to me. Anyone out there
> > have any opinions or experience/advice
> > about splicing fuselage longerons? I
> > read in the EAA wood book that some designs
> > call for laminating up the
> > longerons, and It looks like a 16:1 scarf
> > might work. What do you think?
> >
> > Ben
>
>
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
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| Subject: | Re: smoke systems |
Oscar,
I'm smoking both pipes !! It's so much fun, it's probably illegal !!
Originally, I installed an after-market windshield washer tank (probably a
little over a quart), and pump, on the left upper portion of the engine mount,
isolated with rubber strips and a custom built bracket. The pump was mounted
to the tank, with a short hose from the tank to the pump, then from the pump to
the squirters. I use a hose from the pump to a brass Tee mounted on the
center part of the engine mount, then branch it via brass compression fittings
and
tubing, to the two fittings on the aft exhaust pipes, which are about 1"
below the flange. I cut a 1/8" pipe coupler in half, and welded each half to the
exhaust pipes pointing inboard. After welding, I drilled one #60 hole through
the pipe, in the lower portion of the fitting, so oil would not puddle in the
fitting. I operate the pump via a push button switch mounted on the power
lever. This tank of a special blend of oil (Baby Oil) lasted about 3 minutes of
continuos smoke, if left on.
I had 3 squawks with this original configuration:
1) It was about level with the fittings on the exhaust pipes, and would
dribble out, loosing the precious oil, and emitting a very slight smoke all the
time there was any oil left.
2) Sometimes the pump would cavitate, and wouldn't pick up the fluid.
3) The tank wasn't Big Enough !!
The fix for all 3 squawks was to build a larger fiberglass tank (almost a
gallon), and mount it down low, and centered on the firewall. Now, I've
never used an entire tank of oil in a single flight.
On a calm evening, I keep some power in on final approach, and put it
into a slip, level off just above the runway, go full power for a high speed
flyby (about 70 mph) and into a fairly steep departure, level off and make a turn.
The smoke hangs there in 4 straight lines with an arc at the end. Another
favorite use, is to hold one brake in the infield, and with 1/4 power, hit the
smoke, and do some doughnuts on the ground. The plane disappears behind a
smoke screen, while everyone enjoys the aroma of baby oil !! Sometimes people
ask me if I can do Skywriting...I say "Yes, I can write the big O in the sky !!"
Terry B. got an excellent straight on picture of my plane climbing out of
Tick Hill, and from the camera angle, it looks like she's emitting plumes of
Rocket Smoke, and going Straight Up !!
Hey Mike C. - I hope we can do a few flybys at Brodhead, wing tip to wing
tip, Smokin' the whole runway !! YEEEE HAAAAWW !! - now THAT would be
a good video clip...
Chuck G.
p.s. Johnson & Johnson would go broke, if they supplied all the baby oil I
need, and there wouldn't be any baby oil left for the baby's !!
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