Pietenpol-List Digest Archive

Tue 03/07/06


Total Messages Posted: 9



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 05:14 AM - Re: Landing on paved runways (Glenn Thomas)
     2. 07:17 AM - Re: Re: Landing on paved runways (Galen Hutcheson)
     3. 07:41 AM - Corvair engine disassembly (Egan, John)
     4. 08:41 AM - Piet vs. GN-1 airfoil (Tim Willis)
     5. 11:02 AM - Re: Corvair engine disassembly (Barry Davis)
     6. 03:52 PM - Re: Corvair engine disassembly (Kip and Beth Gardner)
     7. 06:47 PM - Re: Corvair engine disassembly (MICHAEL SILVIUS)
     8. 07:35 PM - Re: Corvair engine disassembly (Jim Ash)
     9. 08:05 PM - Re: Corvair engine disassembly (Jim Ash)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 05:14:46 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Landing on paved runways
    From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas@flyingwood.com>
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas@flyingwood.com> So, I guess with a tailwheel and the training I'm going to get in the Piper PA-12 will make this a go! I like the idea of swapping with a skid. That way I can send the plane right back to 1932 in a couple simple steps (except for the 1965 Corvair engine). ...and there are some grass strips in CT. Hard to tell from what I saw if they are still in operation. Thanks to all -------- Glenn Thomas N????? http://www.flyingwood.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=20075#20075


    Message 2


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    Time: 07:17:49 AM PST US
    From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: Landing on paved runways
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts@yahoo.com> Glenn, just a couple of tips on the tail wheel/skid. You want to keep them both as close to equal weights when installed as you can to avoid a W&B change. That is not hard to do, you just have to be aware of it when building your skid. You will also want to disconnect the tailwheel steering cables and remove them when the skid is on the plane so that they can't interfere with ground operations. All of this is easy to engineer. Again, you will need to practice, practice, practice your tailwheel/skid operations to get all the skill you can. You will really enjoy the versitility of this setup when you gain the required skills. Doc (H) --- Glenn Thomas <glennthomas@flyingwood.com> wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Glenn Thomas" > <glennthomas@flyingwood.com> > > So, I guess with a tailwheel and the training I'm > going to get in the Piper PA-12 will make this a go! > I like the idea of swapping with a skid. That way > I can send the plane right back to 1932 in a couple > simple steps (except for the 1965 Corvair engine). > ...and there are some grass strips in CT. Hard to > tell from what I saw if they are still in operation. > > Thanks to all > > -------- > Glenn Thomas > N????? > http://www.flyingwood.com > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=20075#20075 > > > > > > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > > Admin. > > > > > > > > > > >


    Message 3


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    Time: 07:41:07 AM PST US
    Subject: Corvair engine disassembly
    From: "Egan, John" <jegan@kcc.com>
    Regarding Corvair engines. Can anyone offer some information on what the best method is to remove the rocker arm studs=3F Getting started on the engine build process. I have a concern that I do not want to back the cylinder head studs out when I turn the rocker arm studs. The rocker arm studs have internal (female) threads, and they thread onto the end of those long head studs coming off the engine case, which I understand should not be removed. I rotated the engine to it's side, and squirted a little creeping oil on the stud in hope for it to find it's way to the threads for now. Thank you. This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee(s) only and may contain privileged, confidential, or proprietary information that is exempt from disclosure under law. If you have received this message in error, please inform us promptly by reply e-mail, then delete the e-mail and destroy any printed copy. Thank you.


    Message 4


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    Time: 08:41:03 AM PST US
    From: Tim Willis <strategyguy536@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Piet vs. GN-1 airfoil
    Yesterday I placed one of my completed Piet ribs over a recently acquired full-scale GN-1 wing rib drawing. I was impressed by the differences at the leading edge and the next 5" back. I know that the GN-1 folks claim slower stalls with their wing, based only on this difference. Do you know what they really claim, and has anyone been able to verify differences? Thanks, Tim Pietenpol-List Digest Server <pietenpol-list-digest@matronics.com> wrote: * ================================================== Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive ================================================== Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the Pietenpol-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list/Digest.Pietenpol-List.2006-03-06.html Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list/Digest.Pietenpol-List.2006-03-06.txt ================================================ EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive ================================================ Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 03/06/06: 4 Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:51 AM - Re: Landing on paved runways (Hans Vander Voort) 2. 07:44 AM - Re: Landing on paved runways (Galen Hutcheson) 3. 07:59 AM - Re: Landing on paved runways (harvey rule) 4. 09:10 AM - Re: Landing on paved runways (Galen Hutcheson) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:51:27 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing on paved runways From: Hans Vander Voort --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Hans Vander Voort Glenn, Did your DAR fly a Pietenpol without brakes and a tailskid ? The classic 1930's Pietenpol had no brakes and only a tailskid, some of us still build them that way, but they are hard to handle on paved runways. The skid works (almost) as a brake but only on grass runway. If you fly from paved runways brakes and a tailwheel are a must have. Personally I chose to go with spit landing gear (and brakes and tailwheel) as I liked the looks of it. But straight or split landing gear should make no difference on paved or grass. For safety sake you should have brakes and a tailwheel. It is nice to be authentic 1930's but we are now in the 21st Century and we should allow ourselves to take advantage of lessons learned. Keep on Building Hans "Glenn Thomas" ngwood.com> To Sent by: pietenpol-list@matronics.com owner-pietenpol-l cc ist-server@matron ics.com Subject Pietenpol-List: Landing on paved runways 03/03/2006 09:58 AM Please respond to pietenpol-list@ma tronics.com --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Glenn Thomas" At the last EAA meeting I talked with our DAR (who tried to talk me out of building a Piet) and he said he landed the one that he test flew last year on a paved runway. He said there aren't any grass strips in Connecticut. I haven't heard of anyone doing this yet. Would the J3 cub style landing gear (like Chuck has on his plane) be a must for this type of scenario? -------- Glenn Thomas N????? http://www.flyingwood.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=19358#19358 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:44:19 AM PST US From: Galen Hutcheson Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing on paved runways --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen Hutcheson I'm building mine with and interchangeable tailskid and steerable tailwheel. It will be a quick change and I can use the skid on grass runways and the wheel when traveling when paved runways may be encountered. Extra work to do but will be worth it to me as I plan to do a lot of traveling. Doc (H) --- Hans Vander Voort wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Hans Vander > Voort > > Glenn, > > Did your DAR fly a Pietenpol without brakes and a > tailskid ? > The classic 1930's Pietenpol had no brakes and only > a tailskid, some of us > still build them that way, but they are hard to > handle on paved runways. > The skid works (almost) as a brake but only on grass > runway. > If you fly from paved runways brakes and a tailwheel > are a must have. > > Personally I chose to go with spit landing gear (and > brakes and tailwheel) > as I liked the looks of it. > But straight or split landing gear should make no > difference on paved or > grass. > > For safety sake you should have brakes and a > tailwheel. > It is nice to be authentic 1930's but we are now in > the 21st Century and we > should allow ourselves to take advantage of lessons > learned. > > Keep on Building > > Hans > > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=19358#19358 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > > Admin. > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:59:32 AM PST US From: harvey rule Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing on paved runways --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: harvey rule You would be better to stick with the tail wheel and jetison the tailskid.What happens when you take off from grass and you encounter a paved run way.Who is going to climb out and change that skid to a wheel while in mid fight.Besides,I've seen guys trying to take off with skids,they go all over the place,no control.You would be better to install a wheel lock. Galen Hutcheson wrote: > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen Hutcheson > > I'm building mine with and interchangeable tailskid > and steerable tailwheel. It will be a quick change > and I can use the skid on grass runways and the wheel > when traveling when paved runways may be encountered. > Extra work to do but will be worth it to me as I plan > to do a lot of traveling. > > Doc (H) > > --- Hans Vander Voort > wrote: > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Hans Vander > > Voort > > > > Glenn, > > > > Did your DAR fly a Pietenpol without brakes and a > > tailskid ? > > The classic 1930's Pietenpol had no brakes and only > > a tailskid, some of us > > still build them that way, but they are hard to > > handle on paved runways. > > The skid works (almost) as a brake but only on grass > > runway. > > If you fly from paved runways brakes and a tailwheel > > are a must have. > > > > Personally I chose to go with spit landing gear (and > > brakes and tailwheel) > > as I liked the looks of it. > > But straight or split landing gear should make no > > difference on paved or > > grass. > > > > For safety sake you should have brakes and a > > tailwheel. > > It is nice to be authentic 1930's but we are now in > > the 21st Century and we > > should allow ourselves to take advantage of lessons > > learned. > > > > Keep on Building > > > > Hans > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=19358#19358 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > browse > > Subscriptions page, > > FAQ, > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > > > > Admin. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:10:48 AM PST US From: Galen Hutcheson Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing on paved runways --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen Hutcheson Harvey, been there-done that. I have had a couple of planes (both antique bipes that origionally came out with tail skids and later converted to wheels) and I really liked the set up. Like I said, if I am heading off cross country, then I put the tailwheel on. I only flew the skid at the grass location. But I have landed a skid on pavement (but I had differential brakes) and it wasn't all that bad. With a skid, you use the rudder as the steering device. If you need to change direction of travel while the skid in on the ground, you give a blast from the prop to make the rudder more effective. It takes a lot more skill than a tailwheel, but as I said earlier, practice, practice, practice... Don't care much for tailwheel locks...but that's another story. Doc (H) --- harvey rule wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: harvey rule > > > You would be better to stick with the tail wheel and > jetison the > tailskid.What happens when you take off from grass > and you encounter a > paved run way.Who is going to climb out and change > that skid to a wheel > while in mid fight.Besides,I've seen guys trying to > take off with > skids,they go all over the place,no control.You > would be better to > install a wheel lock. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > > > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=19358#19358 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > browse > > > Subscriptions page, > > > FAQ, > > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > > > > > > Admin. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > protection around > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > > Admin. > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- Bring photos to life! 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    Message 5


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    Time: 11:02:24 AM PST US
    From: "Barry Davis" <bed@mindspring.com>
    Subject: Re: Corvair engine disassembly
    William Wynne has a new disassembly video (I have not seen it yet) on the Corvair. It is supposed to explain a lot. Barry ----- Original Message ----- From: Egan, John To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 10:40 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair engine disassembly Regarding Corvair engines. Can anyone offer some information on what the best method is to remove the rocker arm studs? Getting started on the engine build process. I have a concern that I do not want to back the cylinder head studs out when I turn the rocker arm studs. The rocker arm studs have internal (female) threads, and they thread onto the end of those long head studs coming off the engine case, which I understand should not be removed. I rotated the engine to it's side, and squirted a little creeping oil on the stud in hope for it to find it's way to the threads for now. Thank you. This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee(s) only and may contain privileged, confidential, or proprietary information that is exempt from disclosure under law. If you have received this message in error, please inform us promptly by reply e-mail, then delete the e-mail and destroy any printed copy. Thank you.


    Message 6


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    Time: 03:52:38 PM PST US
    From: Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Re: Corvair engine disassembly
    At 9:40 AM -0600 3/7/06, Egan, John wrote: >Regarding Corvair engines. Can anyone offer some information on >what the best method is to remove the rocker arm studs? Getting >started on the engine build process. I have a concern that I do not >want to back the cylinder head studs out when I turn the rocker arm >studs. The rocker arm studs have internal (female) threads, and >they thread onto the end of those long head studs coming off the >engine case, which I understand should not be removed. I rotated >the engine to it's side, and squirted a little creeping oil on the >stud in hope for it to find it's way to the threads for now. > > >Thank you. John, Who told you the engine case studs should not be removed? You neeed to take them out to retap the holes anyway (WW showed us how to do this at Corvair College # 7 using an old stud with cuts put in it with a hacksaw to make a homemade tap.). The studs are reset with Loc-Tite unless WW has changed his mind about that in the past 18 months ( I doubt it). Many of the studs will have rust damage & will need to be replaced anyway. The more important issue is that you avoid stripping the case holes when you pull these studs (if you do they have to be heli-coiled). WW recommends heating them with a torch & then applying candle wax to the threads, which wicks the wax into the hole. I got in a hurry & didn't do this & wound up having a stripped hole. Now I'll need to get one stud threaded for the heli-coil. I did not worry about trying to save any of my case studs as I'm plannig on installing all new stainless ones. The lowere case studs, which are exposed top & bottom were badly rusted at both ends anyway, I had to chisel off the nuts to get the heads off. Hope this helps. Kip Gardner -- North Canton, OH


    Message 7


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    Time: 06:47:54 PM PST US
    From: "MICHAEL SILVIUS" <M.Silvius@worldnet.att.net>
    Subject: Re: Corvair engine disassembly
    Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair engine disassembly Kip: I am anything but an expert but a quick search turns up: from: http://www.maddyhome.com/corvairsrch/message?sn=3D0&hit=3D140 "There has been considerable discussion on this matter on the list. The consensus is that it is best to avoid rotating the studs when disassembling the engine, and the reason has to do with how the studs were installed in the first place. " and "at one time it was suggested that they all be turned out and the case helicoiled to ensure tight threading of the studs into the case. That advice has changed, because it's best to try to maintain the existing stud-to-case fit." and WW on the issue: http://www.maddyhome.com/corvairsrch/message?sn=3D0&hit=3D73 "The stock thread on these studs is not compatible with helicoils. It is a special thread known as a 3/8NC5. The stock studs have a fairly high tolerance for tool marks. Even studs with vise grip marks would pull over 9,500 pounds in tension before permanently deforming." some more postings of interest on the issue: http://www.maddyhome.com/corvairsrch/message?sn=3D0&hit=3D40 http://www.maddyhome.com/corvairsrch/message?sn=3D0&hit=3D45 thanks: michael silvius


    Message 8


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    Time: 07:35:23 PM PST US
    From: Jim Ash <ashcan@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Re: Corvair engine disassembly
    --- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found --- A message with no text/plain MIME section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using Plain Text formatting. HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section in their client's default configuration. If you're using HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text". --- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found ---


    Message 9


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    Time: 08:05:01 PM PST US
    From: Jim Ash <ashcan@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Re: Corvair engine disassembly
    --- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found --- A message with no text/plain MIME section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using Plain Text formatting. HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section in their client's default configuration. If you're using HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text". --- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found ---




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