Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:46 AM - Re: mystery plane in Manhattan (harvey rule)
2. 05:15 AM - Re: I wanna build (Cinda Gadd)
3. 06:39 AM - Re: I wanna build (Steve Glass)
4. 11:14 AM - Photo of skyscrapers from Piet in Manhattan (Michael D Cuy)
5. 01:29 PM - Re: mystery plane in Manhattan (walt evans)
6. 01:31 PM - Re: I wanna build (The Schuerrs)
7. 01:57 PM - Re: Piet vs. GN-1 airfoil (Alan Lyscars)
8. 02:06 PM - Re: I wanna build (Mark Blackwell)
9. 03:26 PM - FW: Re: I wanna build (Cinda Gadd)
10. 03:26 PM - Re: Piet vs. GN-1 airfoil (Wizzard187@aol.com)
11. 03:32 PM - Re: Piet vs. GN-1 airfoil (gcardinal)
12. 05:03 PM - Re: I wanna build (The Schuerrs)
13. 05:21 PM - plans and modifications (The Schuerrs)
14. 05:44 PM - Diesel powered piet (Catdesign)
15. 08:55 PM - Re: I wanna build (Dick Navratil)
16. 09:16 PM - Re: I wanna build (The Schuerrs)
17. 09:31 PM - Re: Piet vs. GN-1 airfoil (DJ Vegh)
18. 09:33 PM - Re: plans and modifications (Catdesign)
19. 09:43 PM - Re: Re: plans and modifications (The Schuerrs)
20. 09:59 PM - Re: Re: plans and modifications (Catdesign)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: mystery plane in Manhattan |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: harvey rule <harvey.rule@bell.ca>
Never mind what's it doing there;who has the balls of steel to land
there?!
DJ Vegh wrote:
>
> Found this on Google earth today while working on a project for my employer.
>
> what in Sam Hill is an airplane doing on the roof of a high rise in
> Manhattan?
>
> Name: plane_manhattan.jpg
> plane_manhattan.jpg Type: JPEG Image (image/jpeg)
> Encoding: base64
Message 2
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Steve,
If they don't call it Sitka, it is probably White spruce. White spruce is about
93% as strong as Sitka. I used #1 White spruce for my Piet (has NOT flown yet)
except for the spars, longerons, wing tip bows and 3 uprights in the fuse sides,
used doug fir, full size, for these things.
If you can do your own grading that spruce sounds like a good deal.
Skip, see you all at Sun n Fun wood shop
----- Original Message -----
found that they had about 50 16' long spruce 1x12. There's a lot of work in picking
through but there's definitely useable wood. And get this 23 dollars apiece.
Steve
Message 3
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Steve Glass" <redsglass@hotmail.com>
Hi Steve
I have also been keeping an eye open each time I go to the lumber yard.
Maine seemed to have a lot of good choices and I bought some 2x8 x 16 ft and
stored them in my garage. I'm currently in Ontario oregon and have only
seen 1 2x6 x8 that was suitable. Most of the wood I have seen out here is
new quick growth stock but much more fir available than back east. Where
are you located?
Steve G
>From: "The Schuerrs" <schuerrs@charter.net>
>To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: I wanna build
>Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 12:50:50 -0600
>
>Hello everyone, I went to my local VERY high end lumber yard and found that
>they had about 50 16' long spruce 1x12. There's a lot of work in picking
>through but there's definitely useable wood. And get this 23 dollars
>apiece. I also asked if they could get clear and they said the best they
>could get is #1. I'm a carpenter so I know something about wood, but my
>question is, can ponderosa pine or radiata pine be used? They have a very
>good selection of doug fir also. If doug fir is used, where can you
>downsize to eliminate some weight, or can you? Also, one last question.
>Since only recently catching the piet bug and short on funds right now,
>where can I find a description of the parts that I don't know, like spars
>and longerons and such. Thanks for your help. I'll see y'all in the skies
>someday
>
>Steve
Message 4
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| Subject: | Photo of skyscrapers from Piet in Manhattan |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
The photo of the Piet from the 80's flying among the NYC skyline were taken
by a guy
named Tom Nolan as I recall who used to fly his Piet all over, including to
Brodhead most years.
Colorful guy as I recall and loved to fly.
I may have his last name wrong but that is the guy who snapped the NY
photos including a nice one of Miss Liberty.
Mike C.
do not archive
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: mystery plane in Manhattan |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "walt evans" <waltdak@verizon.net>
We do quite a bit of work in NYC, and when you are maybe 60 or so stories up
you see some strange sights. There are alot of odd people with alot of
money who do some strange things. Some roofs have full lawns/shrubs/ and
trees, where if you were sitting there, you'd swear you were in a yard in
Vermont.
I even saw giant painted bird footprints going all the way across the roof
like an 80ft. pidgeon landed there.
Just like we've all seen pics of an airplane on the roof of a diner, this
guy took a lower building and created a scene that literally millions of
people in the other buildings can look down at and smile.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 2:56 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: mystery plane in Manhattan
> Found this on Google earth today while working on a project for my
> employer.
>
> what in Sam Hill is an airplane doing on the roof of a high rise in
> Manhattan?
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: I wanna build |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "The Schuerrs" <schuerrs@charter.net>
Steve,
I'm in Lake Geneva, WI. What species of spruce? I think this is white.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Glass" <redsglass@hotmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 8:37 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: I wanna build
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Steve Glass"
> <redsglass@hotmail.com>
>
> Hi Steve
>
> I have also been keeping an eye open each time I go to the lumber yard.
> Maine seemed to have a lot of good choices and I bought some 2x8 x 16 ft
> and stored them in my garage. I'm currently in Ontario oregon and have
> only seen 1 2x6 x8 that was suitable. Most of the wood I have seen out
> here is new quick growth stock but much more fir available than back east.
> Where are you located?
>
> Steve G
>>From: "The Schuerrs" <schuerrs@charter.net>
>>To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>>Subject: Pietenpol-List: I wanna build
>>Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 12:50:50 -0600
>>
>>Hello everyone, I went to my local VERY high end lumber yard and found
>>that they had about 50 16' long spruce 1x12. There's a lot of work in
>>picking through but there's definitely useable wood. And get this 23
>>dollars apiece. I also asked if they could get clear and they said the
>>best they could get is #1. I'm a carpenter so I know something about
>>wood, but my question is, can ponderosa pine or radiata pine be used?
>>They have a very good selection of doug fir also. If doug fir is used,
>>where can you downsize to eliminate some weight, or can you? Also, one
>>last question. Since only recently catching the piet bug and short on
>>funds right now, where can I find a description of the parts that I don't
>>know, like spars and longerons and such. Thanks for your help. I'll see
>>y'all in the skies someday
>>
>>Steve
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Piet vs. GN-1 airfoil |
Dear DJ and the Rest of The Guys:
I've been following, with great interest, your discussions of airfoils vis-a-vis
GN-1 vs. Piet. But my initial question still stands unanswered: Why are the
rear cabane struts of a GN-1 (plans) longer than the front ones-thereby positioning
the leading edge of the wing at a, presumably, negative angle of attack
during level flight? Do you fellows think I should keep to the plans, or alter
the dimensions of the cabanes to, at least, place the leading edge of the
wing in some degree of positive angle of attack during level flight?
Yours sincerely,
Alan
----- Original Message -----
From: DJ Vegh
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 12:29 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet vs. GN-1 airfoil
early Gn-1's used a piper cub wing. some still opt to do that but most use the
modifed Piet airfoil that is shown in the plans. The differences are in the
leading edge of the airfoil. the GN-1 uses a more bluntly rounded edge. other
than that the profile is the same. wing spar locations and other structural
dimensions are different but the overall shape is very close to a Piet airfoil
DJ Vegh
Dir. of Web Development
Editor - Animator - Digital Artist
Larry John Wright, Inc.
1045 E. University Dr.
Mesa, AZ 85203
480.833.8111 - Office
602.743.5768 - Mobile
"The Nation's Number One Retail Advertising Agency"
Achieving Big Time Results for Local and Regional Retailers
-
----- Original Message -----
From: Tim Willis
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 9:39 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet vs. GN-1 airfoil
Yesterday I placed one of my completed Piet ribs over a recently acquired full-scale
GN-1 wing rib drawing. I was impressed by the differences at the leading
edge and the next 5" back. I know that the GN-1 folks claim slower stalls
with their wing, based only on this difference. Do you know what they really
claim, and has anyone been able to verify differences?
Thanks,
Tim
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Pietenpol-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Mon 03/06/06: 4
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:51 AM - Re: Landing on paved runways (Hans Va nder Voort)
2. 07:44 AM - Re: Landing on paved runways (Galen Hutcheson)
3. 07:59 AM - Re: Landing on paved runways (harvey rule)
4. 09:10 AM - Re: Landing on paved runways (Galen Hutcheson)
________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
Time: 05:51:27 AM PST US
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing on paved runways
From: Hans Vander Voort
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Hans Vander Voort
Glenn,
Did your DAR fly a Pietenpol without brakes and a tailskid ?
The classic 1930's Pietenpol had no brakes and only a tailskid, some of us
still build them that way, but they are hard to handle on paved runways.
The skid works (almost) as a brake but only on grass runway.
If you fly from paved runways brakes and a tailwheel are a must have.
Personally I chose to go with spit landing gear (and brakes and tailwheel)
as I liked the looks of it.
But straight or split landing gear should make no difference on paved or
grass.
For safety sake you should have brakes and a tailwheel.
It is nice to be authentic 1930's but we are now in the 21st Century and
we
should allow ourselves to take advantage of lessons learned.
Keep on Building
Hans
"Glenn Thomas"
ngwood.com> To
Sent by: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
owner-pietenpol-l cc
ist-server@matron
ics.com Subject
Pietenpol-List: Landing on paved
runways
03/03/2006 09:58
AM
Please respond to
pietenpol-list@ma
tronics.com
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Glenn Thomas"
At the last EAA meeting I talked with our DAR (who tried to talk me out of
building a Piet) and he said he landed the one that he test flew last year
on a paved runway. H e said there aren't any grass strips in Connecticut.
I haven't heard of anyone doing this yet. Would the J3 cub style landing
gear (like Chuck has on his plane) be a must for this type of scenario?
--------
Glenn Thomas
N?????
http://www.flyingwood.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3D19358#19358
________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
Time: 07:44:19 AM PST US
From: Galen Hutcheson
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing on paved runways
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen Hutcheson
I'm building mine with and interchangeable tailskid
and steerable tailwheel. It will be a quick change
and I can use the skid on grass runways and the wheel
when traveling when paved runways may be encountered.
Extra work to do but will be worth it to me as I plan
to do a lot of traveling.
Doc (H)
--- Hans Vander Voort
wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Hans Vander
> Voort
>
> Glenn,
>
> Did your DAR fly a Pietenpol without brakes and a
> tailskid ?
> The classic 1930's Pietenpol had no brakes and only
> a tailskid, some of us
> still build them that way, but they are hard to
> handle on paved runways.
> The skid works (almost) as a brake but only on grass
> runway.
> If you fly from paved runways brakes and a tailwheel
> are a must have.
>
> Personally I chose to go with spit landing gear (and
> brakes and tailwheel)
> as I liked the looks of it.
> But straight or split landing gear should make no
> difference on paved or
> grass.
>
> For safety sake you should have brakes and a
> tailwheel.
It is nice to be authentic 1930's but we are now in
> the 21st Century and we
> should allow ourselves to take advantage of lessons
> learned.
>
> Keep on Building
>
> Hans
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
>
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3D19358#19358
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>
> Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________
Time: 07:59:32 AM P ST US
From: harvey rule
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing on paved runways
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: harvey rule
You would be better to stick with the tail wheel and jetison the
tailskid.What happens when you take off from grass and you encounter a
paved run way.Who is going to climb out and change that skid to a wheel
while in mid fight.Besides,I've seen guys trying to take off with
skids,they go all over the place,no control.You would be better to
install a wheel lock.
Galen Hutcheson wrote:
>
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen Hutcheson
>
> I'm building mine with and interchangeable tailskid
> and steerable tailwheel. It will be a quick change
> and I can use the skid on grass runways and the wheel
> when traveling when paved runways may be encountered.
> Extra work to do but will be wort h it to me as I plan
> to do a lot of traveling.
>
> Doc (H)
>
> --- Hans Vander Voort
> wrote:
>
> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Hans Vander
> > Voort
> >
> > Glenn,
> >
> > Did your DAR fly a Pietenpol without brakes and a
> > tailskid ?
> > The classic 1930's Pietenpol had no brakes and only
> > a tailskid, some of us
> > still build them that way, but they are hard to
> > handle on paved runways.
> > The skid works (almost) as a brake but only on grass
> > runway.
> > If you fly from paved runways brakes and a tailwheel
> > are a must have.
> >
> > Personally I chose to go with spit landing gear (and
> > brakes and tailwheel)
> > as I liked the looks of it.
> > But straight or sp lit landing gear should make no
> > difference on paved or
> > grass.
> >
> > For safety sake you should have brakes and a
> > tailwheel.
> > It is nice to be authentic 1930's but we are now in
> > the 21st Century and we
> > should allow ourselves to take advantage of lessons
> > learned.
> >
> > Keep on Building
> >
> > Hans
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> >
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3D19358#19358
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > browse
> > Subscriptions page,
> > FAQ,
> > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> >
> > Admin.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> __________________________________________________
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________
Time: 09:10:48 AM PST US
From: Galen Hutcheson
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing on paved runways
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen Hutcheson
Harvey, been there-done that. I have had a couple of
planes (both antique bipes that origionally came out
with tail skids and later converted to wheels) and I
really liked the set up. Like I said, if I am heading
off cross country, then I put the tailwheel on. I
only flew the skid at the grass location. But I have
landed a skid on pavement (but I had differential
brakes) and it wasn't all that bad. With a skid, you
use the rudder as the steering device. If you need to
change direction of travel while the skid in on the
ground, you give a blast from the prop to make the
rudder more effective. It takes a lot more skill than
a tailwheel, but as I said earlier, practice,
practice, practice...
Don't care much for tailwheel locks...but that's
another story.
Doc (H)
--- harvey rule wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: harvey rule
>
>
> You would be better to stick with the tail wheel and
> jetison the
> tailskid.What happens when you take off from grass
> and you encounter a
> paved run way.Who is going to climb out and change
> th at skid to a wheel
> while in mid fight.Besides,I've seen guys trying to
> take off with
> skids,they go all over the place,no control.You
> would be better to
> install a wheel lock.
>
>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Read this topic online here:
> > >
> > >
> >
>
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3D19358#19358
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: I wanna build |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Mark Blackwell" <markb1958@verizon.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: "The Schuerrs" <schuerrs@charter.net>
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 4:29 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I wanna build
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "The Schuerrs"
> <schuerrs@charter.net>
>
> Steve,
>
> I'm in Lake Geneva, WI. What species of spruce? I think this is white.
>
> Steve
Just curious. I flew out of that area a long time ago. Are the Americana
and Lake Lawn Lodge airports still open? Used to be great places to go
Message 9
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Cinda + Skip Gadd
csfog@earthlink.net
----- Original Message -----
From: Cinda Gadd
Sent: 3/9/2006 8:12:47 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: I wanna build
Steve,
If they don't call it Sitka, it is probably White spruce. White spruce is about
93% as strong as Sitka. I used #1 White spruce for my Piet (has NOT flown yet)
except for the spars, longerons, wing tip bows and 3 uprights in the fuse sides,
used doug fir, full size, for these things.
If you can do your own grading that spruce sounds like a good deal.
Skip, see you all at Sun n Fun wood shop
----- Original Message -----
found that they had about 50 16' long spruce 1x12. There's a lot of work in picking
through but there's definitely useable wood. And get this 23 dollars apiece.
Steve
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Piet vs. GN-1 airfoil |
Alan, If you take a rib and put flat on the ground it will have angle of
incidence because the thrust line runs from the rear tip of the rib to the
center of the radius on the front. (I hope) Ken Conrad
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Piet vs. GN-1 airfoil |
Hi Alan,
Changing the cabane length won't affect the airfoil AOA. It will change the fuselage
angle relative to the airfoil.
GN's appear to fly noticeably tail low compared to Pietenpol's.
I'm not familiar enough with the GN plans to discuss the merits, or problems, of
changing the cabane lengths.
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: Alan Lyscars
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 3:57 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet vs. GN-1 airfoil
Dear DJ and the Rest of The Guys:
I've been following, with great interest, your discussions of airfoils vis-a-vis
GN-1 vs. Piet. But my initial question still stands unanswered: Why are
the rear cabane struts of a GN-1 (plans) longer than the front ones-thereby positioning
the leading edge of the wing at a, presumably, negative angle of attack
during level flight? Do you fellows think I should keep to the plans, or
alter the dimensions of the cabanes to, at least, place the leading edge of the
wing in some degree of positive angle of attack during level flight?
Yours sincerely,
Alan
----- Original Message -----
From: DJ Vegh
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 12:29 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet vs. GN-1 airfoil
early Gn-1's used a piper cub wing. some still opt to do that but most use
the modifed Piet airfoil that is shown in the plans. The differences are in
the leading edge of the airfoil. the GN-1 uses a more bluntly rounded edge.
other than that the profile is the same. wing spar locations and other structural
dimensions are different but the overall shape is very close to a Piet airfoil
DJ Vegh
Dir. of Web Development
Editor - Animator - Digital Artist
Larry John Wright, Inc.
1045 E. University Dr.
Mesa, AZ 85203
480.833.8111 - Office
602.743.5768 - Mobile
"The Nation's Number One Retail Advertising Agency"
Achieving Big Time Results for Local and Regional Retailers
-
----- Original Message -----
From: Tim Willis
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 9:39 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet vs. GN-1 airfoil
Yesterday I placed one of my completed Piet ribs over a recently acquired
full-scale GN-1 wing rib drawing. I was impressed by the differences at the
leading edge and the next 5" back. I know that the GN-1 folks claim slower stalls
with their wing, based only on this difference. Do you know what they really
claim, and has anyone been able to verify differences?
Thanks,
Tim
Pietenpol-List Digest Server <pietenpol-list-digest@matronics.com> wrote:
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Pietenpol-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Mon 03/06/06: 4
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:51 AM - Re: Landing on paved runways (Hans Va nder Voort)
2. 07:44 AM - Re: Landing on paved runways (Galen Hutcheson)
3. 07:59 AM - Re: Landing on paved runways (harvey rule)
4. 09:10 AM - Re: Landing on paved runways (Galen Hutcheson)
________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
Time: 05:51:27 AM PST US
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing on paved runways
From: Hans Vander Voort
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Hans Vander Voort
Glenn,
Did your DAR fly a Pietenpol without brakes and a tailskid ?
The classic 1930's Pietenpol had no brakes and only a tailskid, some of
us
still build them that way, but they are hard to handle on paved runways.
The skid works (almost) as a brake but only on grass runway.
If you fly from paved runways brakes and a tailwheel are a must have.
Personally I chose to go with spit landing gear (and brakes and tailwheel)
as I liked the looks of it.
But straight or split landing gear should make no difference on paved or
grass.
For safety sake you should have brakes and a tailwheel.
It is nice to be authentic 1930's but we are now in the 21st Century and
we
should allow ourselves to take advantage of lessons learned.
Keep on Building
Hans
"Glenn Thomas"
ngwood.com> To
Sent by: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
owner-pietenpol-l cc
ist-server@matron
ics.com Subject
Pietenpol-List: Landing on paved
runways
03/03/2006 09:58
AM
Please respond to
pietenpol-list@ma
tronics.com
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Glenn Thomas"
At the last EAA meeting I talked with our DAR (who tried to talk me out
of
building a Piet) and he said he landed the one that he test flew last year
on a paved runway. H e said there aren't any grass strips in Connecticut.
I haven't heard of anyone doing this yet. Would the J3 cub style landing
gear (like Chuck has on his plane) be a must for this type of scenario?
--------
Glenn Thomas
N?????
http://www.flyingwood.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3D19358#19358
________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
Time: 07:44:19 AM PST US
From: Galen Hutcheson
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing on paved runways
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen Hutcheson
I'm building mine with and interchangeable tailskid
and steerable tailwheel. It will be a quick change
and I can use the skid on grass runways and the wheel
when traveling when paved runways may be encountered.
Extra work to do but will be worth it to me as I plan
to do a lot of traveling.
Doc (H)
--- Hans Vander Voort
wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Hans Vander
> Voort
>
> Glenn,
>
> Did your DAR fly a Pietenpol without brakes and a
> tailskid ?
> The classic 1930's Pietenpol had no brakes and only
> a tailskid, some of us
> still build them that way, but they are hard to
> handle on paved runways.
> The skid works (almost) as a brake but only on grass
> runway.
> If you fly from paved runways brakes and a tailwheel
> are a must have.
>
> Personally I chose to go with spit landing gear (and
> brakes and tailwheel)
> as I liked the looks of it.
> But straight or split landing gear should make no
> difference on paved or
> grass.
>
> For safety sake you should have brakes and a
> tailwheel.
It is nice to be authentic 1930's but we are now in
> the 21st Century and we
> should allow ourselves to take advantage of lessons
> learned.
>
> Keep on Building
>
> Hans
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
>
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3D19358#19358
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>
> Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________
Time: 07:59:32 AM P ST US
From: harvey rule
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing on paved runways
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: harvey rule
You would be better to stick with the tail wheel and jetison the
tailskid.What happens when you take off from grass and you encounter a
paved run way.Who is going to climb out and change that skid to a wheel
while in mid fight.Besides,I've seen guys trying to take off with
skids,they go all over the place,no control.You would be better to
install a wheel lock.
Galen Hutcheson wrote:
>
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen Hutcheson
>
> I'm building mine with and interchangeable tailskid
> and steerable tailwheel. It will be a quick change
> and I can use the skid on grass runways and the wheel
> when traveling when paved runways may be encountered.
> Extra work to do but will be wort h it to me as I plan
> to do a lot of traveling.
>
> Doc (H)
>
> --- Hans Vander Voort
> wrote:
>
> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Hans Vander
> > Voort
> >
> > Glenn,
> >
> > Did your DAR fly a Pietenpol without brakes and a
> > tailskid ?
> > The classic 1930's Pietenpol had no brakes and only
> > a tailskid, some of us
> > still build them that way, but they are hard to
> > handle on paved runways.
> > The skid works (almost) as a brake but only on grass
> > runway.
> > If you fly from paved runways brakes and a tailwheel
> > are a must have.
> >
> > Personally I chose to go with spit landing gear (and
> > brakes and tailwheel)
> > as I liked the looks of it.
> > But straight or sp lit landing gear should make no
> > difference on paved or
> > grass.
> >
> > For safety sake you should have brakes and a
> > tailwheel.
> > It is nice to be authentic 1930's but we are now in
> > the 21st Century and we
> > should allow ourselves to take advantage of lessons
> > learned.
> >
> > Keep on Building
> >
> > Hans
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> >
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3D19358#19358
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > browse
> > Subscriptions page,
> > FAQ,
> > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> >
> > Admin.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> __________________________________________________
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________
Time: 09:10:48 AM PST US
From: Galen Hutcheson
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing on paved runways
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen Hutcheson
Harvey, been there-done that. I have had a couple of
planes (both antique bipes that origionally came out
with tail skids and later converted to wheels) and I
really liked the set up. Like I said, if I am heading
off cross country, then I put the tailwheel on. I
only flew the skid at the grass location. But I have
landed a skid on pavement (but I had differential
brakes) and it wasn't all that bad. With a skid, you
use the rudder as the steering device. If you need to
change direction of travel while the skid in on the
ground, you give a blast from the prop to make the
rudder more effective. It takes a lot more skill than
a tailwheel, but as I said earlier, practice,
practice, practice...
Don't care much for tailwheel locks...but that's
another story.
Doc (H)
--- harvey rule wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: harvey rule
>
>
> You would be better to stick with the tail wheel and
> jetison the
> tailskid.What happens when you take off from grass
> and you encounter a
> paved run way.Who is going to climb out and change
> th at skid to a wheel
> while in mid fight.Besides,I've seen guys trying to
> take off with
> skids,they go all over the place,no control.You
> would be better to
> install a wheel lock.
>
>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Read this topic online here:
> > >
> > >
> >
>
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3D19358#19358
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: I wanna build |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "The Schuerrs" <schuerrs@charter.net>
Mark,
Yea, they're both open but Americana is now Grand Geneva and it's a huge
place with an indoor water park and some really fine amenities. LLL is
still the same.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Blackwell" <markb1958@verizon.net>
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 4:05 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I wanna build
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Mark Blackwell"
> <markb1958@verizon.net>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "The Schuerrs" <schuerrs@charter.net>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 4:29 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I wanna build
>
>
>> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "The Schuerrs"
>> <schuerrs@charter.net>
>>
>> Steve,
>>
>> I'm in Lake Geneva, WI. What species of spruce? I think this is white.
>>
>> Steve
>
> Just curious. I flew out of that area a long time ago. Are the Americana
> and Lake Lawn Lodge airports still open? Used to be great places to go
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | plans and modifications |
I have found lots of different plans and mods for the piet. Who has the easiest
to decipher? How about Keri-Ann's three piece wing? Gas tank? Are there cad
drawings? Thanks.
Message 14
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| Subject: | Diesel powered piet |
Diesel powered piet
http://www.wilksch.com/
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, Ca
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: I wanna build |
Steve
If you want to consider using Sitka, you are close to McCormack lumber on the southe
end of Madison, Wi. They usually have a good selection.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: The Schuerrs
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 12:50 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: I wanna build
Hello everyone, I went to my local VERY high end lumber yard and found that they
had about 50 16' long spruce 1x12. There's a lot of work in picking through
but there's definitely useable wood. And get this 23 dollars apiece. I also
asked if they could get clear and they said the best they could get is #1.
I'm a carpenter so I know something about wood, but my question is, can ponderosa
pine or radiata pine be used? They have a very good selection of doug fir
also. If doug fir is used, where can you downsize to eliminate some weight,
or can you? Also, one last question. Since only recently catching the piet
bug and short on funds right now, where can I find a description of the parts
that I don't know, like spars and longerons and such. Thanks for your help.
I'll see y'all in the skies someday
Steve
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: I wanna build |
Dick,
Very cool. Thanks
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: Dick Navratil
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 10:51 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I wanna build
Steve
If you want to consider using Sitka, you are close to McCormack lumber on the
southe end of Madison, Wi. They usually have a good selection.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: The Schuerrs
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 12:50 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: I wanna build
Hello everyone, I went to my local VERY high end lumber yard and found that
they had about 50 16' long spruce 1x12. There's a lot of work in picking through
but there's definitely useable wood. And get this 23 dollars apiece. I
also asked if they could get clear and they said the best they could get is #1.
I'm a carpenter so I know something about wood, but my question is, can ponderosa
pine or radiata pine be used? They have a very good selection of doug
fir also. If doug fir is used, where can you downsize to eliminate some weight,
or can you? Also, one last question. Since only recently catching the piet
bug and short on funds right now, where can I find a description of the parts
that I don't know, like spars and longerons and such. Thanks for your help.
I'll see y'all in the skies someday
Steve
Message 17
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|
| Subject: | Re: Piet vs. GN-1 airfoil |
this may sound wierd but front/rear cabane length relationships are not what they
seem when determining AOI.
what really counts is the chord line of the airfoil. it's possible that you could
have a rear cabane that is 10" longer than the front cabane and still have
0=B0 AOI. How? if the front wing spar plates were REALLY long and made the
up for the difference in length.
This is what is going on in a GN-1. The wing spar plates are of different dimensions
between chord line and attach point of the cabane. look closely and do
the math and it all becomes clear.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Wizzard187@aol.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 4:25 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet vs. GN-1 airfoil
Alan, If you take a rib and put flat on the ground it will have angle of incidence
because the thrust line runs from the rear tip of the rib to the center
of the radius on the front. (I hope) Ken Conrad
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: plans and modifications |
Question:
I have found lots of different plans and mods for the piet. Who has the easiest
to decipher? How about Keri-Ann's three piece wing? Gas tank? Are there cad
drawings? Thanks.
Answer:
Lets see the plans that I know of for sale are:
The original plans in the Flying and Glider Magazine, reprints available from the
EAA (Expensive Aircraft Association)
The Improved Pietenpol plans from Don Pietenpol or is it his son Andrew (?) selling
them now.
The British Pietenpol plans are not available in USA, liability concerns.
Then there are the GN-1 plans, which WAS NOT designed by Pietenpol but by John
Grega. Even though the GN-looks like a Piet, the GN-1 has some significant differences
and is not a Pietenpol its a Grega. I here they are good planes, maybe
slightly heavier. I understand the GN-1 plans have recently been re-drawn in
CAD.
There is the Pietenpol knock-off that was sold by some other company, but I cant
remember the name right now.
Keri-Ann's Price's plans are for subcomponents not the whole plane and seem expensive.
I have not see their quality but I would imagine they are good based
on the plane she built.
I personally have the Improved Pietenpol plans from Don and the Grega GN-1 plans.
I think the Pietenpol plans are way better to understand. Not perfect but
after a while you realize everything you need in on there. I think it's cool to
build from the old plans. I would recommend them and besides this way you are
building a true Pietenpol. No offence GN-1 guys
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, Ca
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: plans and modifications |
Chris,
Thanks, seems to make sense. Do you have a three piece wing?
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: Catdesign
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 11:30 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: plans and modifications
Question:
I have found lots of different plans and mods for the piet. Who has the easiest
to decipher? How about Keri-Ann's three piece wing? Gas tank? Are there
cad drawings? Thanks.
Answer:
Lets see the plans that I know of for sale are:
The original plans in the Flying and Glider Magazine, reprints available from
the EAA (Expensive Aircraft Association)
The Improved Pietenpol plans from Don Pietenpol or is it his son Andrew (?) selling
them now.
The British Pietenpol plans are not available in USA, liability concerns.
Then there are the GN-1 plans, which WAS NOT designed by Pietenpol but by John
Grega. Even though the GN-looks like a Piet, the GN-1 has some significant
differences and is not a Pietenpol its a Grega. I here they are good planes, maybe
slightly heavier. I understand the GN-1 plans have recently been re-drawn
in CAD.
There is the Pietenpol knock-off that was sold by some other company, but I cant
remember the name right now.
Keri-Ann's Price's plans are for subcomponents not the whole plane and seem expensive.
I have not see their quality but I would imagine they are good based
on the plane she built.
I personally have the Improved Pietenpol plans from Don and the Grega GN-1 plans.
I think the Pietenpol plans are way better to understand. Not perfect but
after a while you realize everything you need in on there. I think it's cool
to build from the old plans. I would recommend them and besides this way you
are building a true Pietenpol. No offence GN-1 guys
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, Ca
Message 20
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|
| Subject: | Re: plans and modifications |
Yes I have the 3-piece wing plans form Vi Kapler, purchased from Don. Guess I
should say there are also the Long fuselage supplemental plans available from
Don.
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, Ca
----- Original Message -----
From: The Schuerrs
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 9:40 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: plans and modifications
Chris,
Thanks, seems to make sense. Do you have a three piece wing?
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: Catdesign
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 11:30 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: plans and modifications
Question:
I have found lots of different plans and mods for the piet. Who has the easiest
to decipher? How about Keri-Ann's three piece wing? Gas tank? Are there
cad drawings? Thanks.
Answer:
Lets see the plans that I know of for sale are:
The original plans in the Flying and Glider Magazine, reprints available from
the EAA (Expensive Aircraft Association)
The Improved Pietenpol plans from Don Pietenpol or is it his son Andrew (?)
selling them now.
The British Pietenpol plans are not available in USA, liability concerns.
Then there are the GN-1 plans, which WAS NOT designed by Pietenpol but by John
Grega. Even though the GN-looks like a Piet, the GN-1 has some significant
differences and is not a Pietenpol its a Grega. I here they are good planes,
maybe slightly heavier. I understand the GN-1 plans have recently been re-drawn
in CAD.
There is the Pietenpol knock-off that was sold by some other company, but I
cant remember the name right now.
Keri-Ann's Price's plans are for subcomponents not the whole plane and seem
expensive. I have not see their quality but I would imagine they are good based
on the plane she built.
I personally have the Improved Pietenpol plans from Don and the Grega GN-1
plans. I think the Pietenpol plans are way better to understand. Not perfect
but after a while you realize everything you need in on there. I think it's cool
to build from the old plans. I would recommend them and besides this way you
are building a true Pietenpol. No offence GN-1 guys
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, Ca
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