Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:39 AM - Re: Minimum changes from original plans? (Gene Rambo)
2. 04:56 AM - Re: A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200 (Jonathan Ragle)
3. 05:01 AM - Re: Minimum changes from original plans? (charles loomis)
4. 05:06 AM - Re: A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200 (Jonathan Ragle)
5. 05:25 AM - Re: A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200 (amsafetyc@aol.com)
6. 05:36 AM - Re: A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200 (Ben Charvet)
7. 05:46 AM - Re: A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200 (Jonathan Ragle)
8. 05:52 AM - Re: A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200 (Jonathan Ragle)
9. 06:20 AM - Re: A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200 (amsafetyc@aol.com)
10. 06:32 AM - Rib jigs, Wood and a Goal (Tim Verthein)
11. 08:24 AM - Re: Rib jigs, Wood and a Goal (Ryan Mueller)
12. 08:42 AM - Re: Rib jigs, Wood and a Goal (Kip and Beth Gardner)
13. 08:50 AM - Gustav to visit Corky (Oscar Zuniga)
14. 09:52 AM - Re: Rib jigs, Wood and a Goal (Ryan Mueller)
15. 02:35 PM - Re: A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200 (Jonathan Ragle)
16. 04:00 PM - Turnbuckles: correction!!! (Oscar Zuniga)
17. 04:28 PM - Re: Rib jigs, Wood and a Goal ()
18. 04:34 PM - Re: Turnbuckles: correction!!! (Gary Boothe)
19. 05:11 PM - Re: A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200 (Tim Willis)
20. 06:45 PM - one-piece wing (Oscar Zuniga)
21. 07:33 PM - Re: one-piece wing (Kip and Beth Gardner)
22. 11:02 PM - Official Pietenpol-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
23. 11:06 PM - Official Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Minimum changes from original plans? |
In response to question:
one-piece wing here - spar splice underway as we speak. Also doing
minimal changes from plans. Short fuselage, wire wheels, no brakes,
wood "Jenny-style" gear, tail skid, Model A, etc . . .
Gene
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| Subject: | A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200 |
It's all good my friend. I know that if someone knows the answer they will
post up.
From: horzpool@goldengate.netTo: pietenpol-list@matronics.comSubject: Re: P
ietenpol-List: A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200Date: Sat=2C 30 Aug 2008 20:09:28 -0500
Jonathan
When a post like yous goes unanswered for a couple of days=2C it's not that
you are being ignored. It is a collective=2C "I don't know and don't feel
qualified to comment".
I do know that an A-65 mounts differently than an O-200=2C but I have no fu
rther info on that. I also don't know about a C-90.
You need to talk with an A&I who works with those models.
Good luck
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jonathan Ragle
Sent: Thursday=2C August 28=2C 2008 8:33 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200
Do these all use the same engine mount? Anyone know roughly the dimensiona
l difference? Jonathan
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| Subject: | Re: Minimum changes from original plans? |
I was thinking about using 21" Alloy Motorcycle Wheels, making a set of wide hubs,
using custom made spokes, and mounting small hydrolic disk brakes from a thumpster
dirtbike.
--- On Mon, 9/1/08, Gene Rambo <generambo@msn.com> wrote:
> From: Gene Rambo <generambo@msn.com>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Minimum changes from original plans?
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Date: Monday, September 1, 2008, 8:38 PM
> In response to question:
>
> one-piece wing here - spar splice underway as we speak.
> Also doing minimal changes from plans. Short fuselage, wire
> wheels, no brakes, wood "Jenny-style" gear, tail
> skid, Model A, etc . . .
>
> Gene
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| Subject: | A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200 |
Hand propping is no big deal. If you are going to wear a leather helmet an
d goggles it is almost required for authenticity purposes. I'm just wantin
g a more realistic 2 seat aircraft at some point=2C but for now I'm going t
o fly the piss out of the piet and leave it like it is. I've got some work
to do=2C I haven't been current since I was 21 and I need a tailwheel endo
rsement. Thinking about building a widened piet with an O-200 and a modifi
ed airfoil. Not sure. I have been out of building since highschool when m
y dad and I built an RV6 and I would like to cut my teeth on spruce. Who k
nows=2C I might build an RV4 or 6 with an O-320 (incomplete kits are cheap
due to being "obsolete") or a Sonexwith an AeroVee. Just wanting to build
or modify something=2C but mostly wanting to FLY. :)
From: zharvey@bellsouth.netTo: pietenpol-list@matronics.comSubject: Re: Pie
tenpol-List: A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200Date: Sun=2C 31 Aug 2008 20:37:25 -0500
Hand propping is like flying with a tail wheel. Not many pilots do it anym
ore and most that do wouldn't have it any other way.
Gene
N502R
----- Original Message -----
From: Jonathan Ragle
Sent: Sunday=2C August 31=2C 2008 3:22 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200
Many thanks! I think my dad talked me out of a swap though. He said "Why
turn an $8000 airplane into an $18=2C000 airplane?". I think I'm going to
buy an exercise bike instead. :)
pol-list@matronics.comSubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200
Jonathan=2CThis information came from Ron Wanttaja's Fly Baby page: http://
www.bowersflybaby.com/Another influential homebuilt=2C and a very informati
ve website. He says the engine info came from Harry Fenton=2C who was/is an
A&P who posted to their mailing list.----------------------------------Mot
or Mount AdaptabilityQuestion:I'm now looking at a KR2 with a C65 engine wh
ich means hand-propping <frown>. The external looks prettygood (in the pict
ure) and should be getting some interior pics and answers to lots of other
questions soon. I do like having the Continental motor. Do you happen to kn
ow if the motor mount for a C65 will work with a C85 or 0200? I'd like to w
ork towards the engine with a starter and more HP if possible.Answer:The mo
tor mount for the A-65 and C85 series is the same in that conical rubber bu
shings are used. As such=2C the overall dimensions from the engine mount l
ugs on the engine to the prop flange shaft remain the same. The C-90-12=2C
-14=2C 16 and O-200 have different mounts and the lugs are set further for
ward on the engine case. These engines can be mounted on the A-65 mount bu
t require about a 2" spacer to position the prop flange in the same locatio
n as the A-65. the C-85-12 will be your best choice for a low-hassle insta
llation. That's what I was able to find thus far. Maybe that will help give
you an idea.RyanOn Thu=2C Aug 28=2C 2008 at 8:33 AM=2C Jonathan Ragle <jon
95gt@hotmail.com> wrote:>> Do these all use the same engine mount? Anyone
know roughly the dimensional difference?>> >> Jonathan
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8/29/2008 7:07 AM
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| Subject: | Re: A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200 |
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| Subject: | Re: A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200 |
If what your really want is to FLY, why not buy a complete flying
airplane. I bought my Baby Ace for a lot cheaper than I'll be able to
build my Piet. Just a thought....
Ben
Jonathan Ragle wrote:
> Who knows, I might build an RV4 or 6 with an O-320 (incomplete kits
> are cheap due to being "obsolete") or a Sonexwith an AeroVee. Just
> wanting to build or modify something, but mostly wanting to FLY. :)
Message 7
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| Subject: | A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200 |
Funny you mention the O-235=2C I had been considering it as an option aswel
l if one can be had for a reasonable price. Would make a very capable piet
.
I definately want to stay informed on your build.When you say BP airfoil do
you mean the original Berny Piet design? I figure 80 years later I could
do better
than him=2C but perhaps I shouldn't mess with (sort of) success. Still in
the daydreaming phase.
. O-200From: amsafetyc@aol.comDate: Mon=2C 1 Sep 2008 12:23:51 +0000
JonSome interesting posts I am building a wide body Piet with a lycomimg 02
35 108 hp and the BP air foil. Naturally I have been adding my own touches
=2C after all its my airplane. John RecineNX895BP Reserved
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
From: Jonathan Ragle <jon95gt@hotmail.com>Date: Mon=2C 1 Sep 2008 07:06:33
-0500To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: A65 vs.
C90 vs. O-200
Hand propping is no big deal. If you are going to wear a leather helmet an
d goggles it is almost required for authenticity purposes. I'm just wantin
g a more realistic 2 seat aircraft at some point=2C but for now I'm going t
o fly the piss out of the piet and leave it like it is. I've got some work
to do=2C I haven't been current since I was 21 and I need a tailwheel endo
rsement. Thinking about building a widened piet with an O-200 and a modifi
ed airfoil. Not sure. I have been out of building since highschool when m
y dad and I built an RV6 and I would like to cut my teeth on spruce. Who k
nows=2C I might build an RV4 or 6 with an O-320 (incomplete kits are cheap
due to being "obsolete") or a Sonexwith an AeroVee. Just wanting to build
or modify something=2C but mostly wanting to FLY. :)
From: zharvey@bellsouth.netTo: pietenpol-list@matronics.comSubject: Re: Pie
tenpol-List: A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200Date: Sun=2C 31 Aug 2008 20:37:25 -0500
Hand propping is like flying with a tail wheel. Not many pilots do it anym
ore and most that do wouldn't have it any other way.
Gene
N502R
----- Original Message -----
From: Jonathan Ragle
Sent: Sunday=2C August 31=2C 2008 3:22 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200
Many thanks! I think my dad talked me out of a swap though. He said "Why
turn an $8000 airplane into an $18=2C000 airplane?". I think I'm going to
buy an exercise bike instead. :)
pol-list@matronics.comSubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200
Jonathan=2CThis information came from Ron Wanttaja's Fly Baby page: http://
www.bowersflybaby.com/Another influential homebuilt=2C and a very informati
ve website. He says the engine info came from Harry Fenton=2C who was/is an
A&P who posted to their mailing list.----------------------------------Mot
or Mount AdaptabilityQuestion:I'm now looking at a KR2 with a C65 engine wh
ich means hand-propping <frown>. The external looks prettygood (in the pict
ure) and should be getting some interior pics and answers to lots of other
questions soon. I do like having the Continental motor. Do you happen to kn
ow if the motor mount for a C65 will work with a C85 or 0200? I'd like to w
ork towards the engine with a starter and more HP if possible.Answer:The mo
tor mount for the A-65 and C85 series is the same in that conical rubber bu
shings are used. As such=2C the overall dimensions from the engine mount l
ugs on the engine to the prop flange shaft remain the same. The C-90-12=2C
-14=2C 16 and O-200 have different mounts and the lugs are set further for
ward on the engine case. These engines can be mounted on the A-65 mount bu
t require about a 2" spacer to position the prop flange in the same locatio
n as the A-65. the C-85-12 will be your best choice for a low-hassle insta
llation. That's what I was able to find thus far. Maybe that will help give
you an idea.RyanOn Thu=2C Aug 28=2C 2008 at 8:33 AM=2C Jonathan Ragle <jon
95gt@hotmail.com> wrote:>> Do these all use the same engine mount? Anyone
know roughly the dimensional difference?>> >> Jonathan st" target=_blan
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| Subject: | A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200 |
Ben=2C
I've already made a deal on a C65 powered piet=2C just waiting to come up w
ith another $1=2C500 and it's half mine. My dad bought half of it from a f
riend and I'm buying him out of the other half. Neither of us have flown i
t so it should be fun to learn. But I still want to start a project. I mi
ss the feeling of building a flying machine with my own two hands. I could
be flying the RV6 but even though the 'ol man and I built it together he p
ut up the cash and I don't like digging around in his toybox.
Jonathan> Date: Mon=2C 1 Sep 2008 08:34:58 -0400> From: bcharvet@bellsouth.
net> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A65 vs.
et@bellsouth.net>> > If what your really want is to FLY=2C why not buy a co
mplete flying > airplane. I bought my Baby Ace for a lot cheaper than I'll
be able to > build my Piet. Just a thought....> Ben> > Jonathan Ragle wrote
:> > Who knows=2C I might build an RV4 or 6 with an O-320 (incomplete kits
> > are cheap due to being "obsolete") or a Sonexwith an AeroVee. Just > >
wanting to build or modify something=2C but mostly wanting to FLY. :)> > >
========> > >
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| Subject: | Re: A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200 |
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Message 10
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| Subject: | Rib jigs, Wood and a Goal |
I've finally set a goal and am ready to get to work. After spending months learning
and reading it's time to get to it.
Goal: All the ribs done by spring. Since good ol' Minnesota winter is gonna kick
in in a few weeks! I'm not looking at cranking out ribs in a hurry. What
are thoughts on jigs? I've seen lots of nifty clamping style, etc. I'm perfectly
good with doing one side and waiting a day or so to do the other. I don't need
to crank 'em out assembly line style. Simple blocks over plans for positioning,
and nailed or stapled gussets then no need for clamps? Handiest place
to buy the wood for ribs? AS&S? Or are they way overpriced?
At this point, planning on Riblett 612. Corvair power, since I have Corvair motor
experience (in the cars) and already have the Wynne manual and many parts on
hand. Thinking one piece wing for simplicity.
Comments welcome.
Also, hope everyone who wanted Waldo Pepper got one by now. It's entirely possible
I missed someone along the way (my organizational skills aren't the best)
so if you wanted one and I missed you, contact me off list. And for those of you
(you know who you are) Thanks.
Tim in Bovey
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Rib jigs, Wood and a Goal |
Tim,
There are many interesting ideas out there about how to build the jig, which
have all worked for that particular builder. Having built one Pietenpol rib
jig and now building the jig for the Riblett airfoil, my opinion on the
matter is to make the jig as simple as possible to do the job correctly. I
want spend more of my time building my airplane than building the "tooling"
to build my airplane. Remember, Pietenpol was building his airplanes in a
tiny little town in Minnesota in the '20s. This only requires as much rocket
science as you make it require.
http://www.eaa.org/video/homebuilders.html
Click on the Wood tab, and there are a number of videos dealing with rib
building to give you an idea.
I think the way they show in the video is pretty simple. If you are using
the Riblett I am assuming you have or will be getting the full size print
from either Roman or Bill. Lay it out flat and double check the dimensions
(spar center to spar center, etc) to make sure they are reasonably close
(mine were just fine). Tape down the full size print. Cover it with plastic
as recommended. Nail your blocks in place and start building.
Initially I was going to not use nails/staples, and use weights instead. But
after actually trying out the stapling method I've changed my mind. I picked
up the cheapest plastic stapler they had at the store (one of the Easyshot
"forward action" staplers for $10). If you just lightly lay the head of the
staple gun against the wood when you shoot, the 1/4" staples do not
penetrate all the way in. If you stop by an office supply store you can get
a cheap ($3 - $4) staple remover that will make quick and easy work of
taking them out without damaging the wood. It's fast, it's easy, and it
works. You don't have to worry about how much weight to use, or about the
gussets sliding around. You don't have to figure out a clamping method.
The additional benefit of stapling is that you can pull the rib out of the
jig as soon as you are done applying the gussets on one side. Flip it over
and put gussets on the other side, and set the whole thing aside to dry.
Although I know you aren't interested in speed, it gives you the option.
Another upside is that you don't have to worry about the rib sticking to the
jig by the time it dries.
I bought my capstrip and ply from AS&S. I think getting it from Aircraft
Spruce or Wicks is the most convenient method. There are those who like to
find spruce of acceptable quality locally, grade the wood themselves, and
rip it down to the dimensions they need. This is a way to do it, but I would
rather just make a phone call and spend more time building. I can't speak
for the rest of the wood to build the aircraft, but at least in regards to
capstrip material Wicks is twice as expensive as Aircraft Spruce ($0.70 per
foot vs $0.32 per foot).
As far as building the one piece vs. the three piece wing, you can find
plenty of discussions on this in the archive, and get feedback from those
list members that have completed their own Piet to see what they think of
it. I have chosen to build the three piece, and here is my reasoning why. A
three piece wing will take up far less space in a workshop. You can deal
with ~12.5 ft panels instead of a 28 ft wing. It will be easier to assemble.
We will use Bill Rewey's 3 ft center section concept, which will give us
plenty of room for fuel to feed the Corvair. Finally, if (god forbid) one
wing is ever damaged for whatever reason, and the other is not, you don't
have to wrangle a 28 ft wing off the airplane to repair it. Just fix the
offending wing panel.
With all of that being said, realize these are just my opinions. I formed
them from talking with successful builders, spending far too much time
reading the archives from this list, reading everything I could get my hands
on, etc. But I have not yet completed a Piet. Take it for what it is worth.
Emulate the builders' methods and ideas you like best that have resulted in
safe flying aircraft to get yourself into the air in a timely fashion.
Hope that helps. Have a good Labor Day everyone!
Ryan
On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 8:26 AM, Tim Verthein <minoxphotographer@yahoo.com>wrote:
> minoxphotographer@yahoo.com>
>
> I've finally set a goal and am ready to get to work. After spending months
> learning and reading it's time to get to it.
>
> Goal: All the ribs done by spring. Since good ol' Minnesota winter is
> gonna kick in in a few weeks! I'm not looking at cranking out ribs in a
> hurry. What are thoughts on jigs? I've seen lots of nifty clamping style,
> etc. I'm perfectly good with doing one side and waiting a day or so to do
> the other. I don't need to crank 'em out assembly line style. Simple blocks
> over plans for positioning, and nailed or stapled gussets then no need for
> clamps? Handiest place to buy the wood for ribs? AS&S? Or are they way
> overpriced?
>
> At this point, planning on Riblett 612. Corvair power, since I have Corvair
> motor experience (in the cars) and already have the Wynne manual and many
> parts on hand. Thinking one piece wing for simplicity.
>
> Comments welcome.
>
> Also, hope everyone who wanted Waldo Pepper got one by now. It's entirely
> possible I missed someone along the way (my organizational skills aren't the
> best) so if you wanted one and I missed you, contact me off list. And for
> those of you (you know who you are) Thanks.
>
> Tim in Bovey
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Rib jigs, Wood and a Goal |
Ryan,
What is Bill Rewey's 3 ft. center section concept? I missed that
somewhere. Does bill sell plans and/or a drawings of how he does
this? (Bill, feel free to answer directly, I'm real interested - one
of my concerns about the Corvair is that it's fuel consumption makes
a 10-12 gal. tank in the center section a little bit scant in terms
of duration).
Thanks!
Kip Gardner
On Sep 1, 2008, at 11:24 AM, Ryan Mueller wrote:
> Tim,
>
> There are many interesting ideas out there about how to build the
> jig, which have all worked for that particular builder. Having
> built one Pietenpol rib jig and now building the jig for the
> Riblett airfoil, my opinion on the matter is to make the jig as
> simple as possible to do the job correctly. I want spend more of my
> time building my airplane than building the "tooling" to build my
> airplane. Remember, Pietenpol was building his airplanes in a tiny
> little town in Minnesota in the '20s. This only requires as much
> rocket science as you make it require.
>
> http://www.eaa.org/video/homebuilders.html
> Click on the Wood tab, and there are a number of videos dealing
> with rib building to give you an idea.
>
> I think the way they show in the video is pretty simple. If you are
> using the Riblett I am assuming you have or will be getting the
> full size print from either Roman or Bill. Lay it out flat and
> double check the dimensions (spar center to spar center, etc) to
> make sure they are reasonably close (mine were just fine). Tape
> down the full size print. Cover it with plastic as recommended.
> Nail your blocks in place and start building.
>
> Initially I was going to not use nails/staples, and use weights
> instead. But after actually trying out the stapling method I've
> changed my mind. I picked up the cheapest plastic stapler they had
> at the store (one of the Easyshot "forward action" staplers for
> $10). If you just lightly lay the head of the staple gun against
> the wood when you shoot, the 1/4" staples do not penetrate all the
> way in. If you stop by an office supply store you can get a cheap
> ($3 - $4) staple remover that will make quick and easy work of
> taking them out without damaging the wood. It's fast, it's easy,
> and it works. You don't have to worry about how much weight to use,
> or about the gussets sliding around. You don't have to figure out a
> clamping method.
>
> The additional benefit of stapling is that you can pull the rib out
> of the jig as soon as you are done applying the gussets on one
> side. Flip it over and put gussets on the other side, and set the
> whole thing aside to dry. Although I know you aren't interested in
> speed, it gives you the option. Another upside is that you don't
> have to worry about the rib sticking to the jig by the time it dries.
>
> I bought my capstrip and ply from AS&S. I think getting it from
> Aircraft Spruce or Wicks is the most convenient method. There are
> those who like to find spruce of acceptable quality locally, grade
> the wood themselves, and rip it down to the dimensions they need.
> This is a way to do it, but I would rather just make a phone call
> and spend more time building. I can't speak for the rest of the
> wood to build the aircraft, but at least in regards to capstrip
> material Wicks is twice as expensive as Aircraft Spruce ($0.70 per
> foot vs $0.32 per foot).
>
> As far as building the one piece vs. the three piece wing, you can
> find plenty of discussions on this in the archive, and get feedback
> from those list members that have completed their own Piet to see
> what they think of it. I have chosen to build the three piece, and
> here is my reasoning why. A three piece wing will take up far less
> space in a workshop. You can deal with ~12.5 ft panels instead of a
> 28 ft wing. It will be easier to assemble. We will use Bill Rewey's
> 3 ft center section concept, which will give us plenty of room for
> fuel to feed the Corvair. Finally, if (god forbid) one wing is ever
> damaged for whatever reason, and the other is not, you don't have
> to wrangle a 28 ft wing off the airplane to repair it. Just fix the
> offending wing panel.
>
> With all of that being said, realize these are just my opinions. I
> formed them from talking with successful builders, spending far too
> much time reading the archives from this list, reading everything I
> could get my hands on, etc. But I have not yet completed a Piet.
> Take it for what it is worth. Emulate the builders' methods and
> ideas you like best that have resulted in safe flying aircraft to
> get yourself into the air in a timely fashion.
>
> Hope that helps. Have a good Labor Day everyone!
>
> Ryan
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 8:26 AM, Tim Verthein
> <minoxphotographer@yahoo.com> wrote:
> <minoxphotographer@yahoo.com>
>
> I've finally set a goal and am ready to get to work. After spending
> months learning and reading it's time to get to it.
>
> Goal: All the ribs done by spring. Since good ol' Minnesota winter
> is gonna kick in in a few weeks! I'm not looking at cranking out
> ribs in a hurry. What are thoughts on jigs? I've seen lots of
> nifty clamping style, etc. I'm perfectly good with doing one side
> and waiting a day or so to do the other. I don't need to crank 'em
> out assembly line style. Simple blocks over plans for positioning,
> and nailed or stapled gussets then no need for clamps? Handiest
> place to buy the wood for ribs? AS&S? Or are they way overpriced?
>
> At this point, planning on Riblett 612. Corvair power, since I have
> Corvair motor experience (in the cars) and already have the Wynne
> manual and many parts on hand. Thinking one piece wing for
> simplicity.
>
> Comments welcome.
>
> Also, hope everyone who wanted Waldo Pepper got one by now. It's
> entirely possible I missed someone along the way (my organizational
> skills aren't the best) so if you wanted one and I missed you,
> contact me off list. And for those of you (you know who you are)
> Thanks.
>
> Tim in Bovey
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Gustav to visit Corky |
Latest projections show the remains of Gustav headed somewhere between Shreveport
and Lufkin, out in Corky's neck of the woods. Shouldn't be much in the way
of wind by then but I'll bet there will be rain.
Won't matter much to ol' Corky though... he's basking in the season opener victory
for his LSU Tigers.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Rib jigs, Wood and a Goal |
Kip,
Unfortunately Bill is not on the mailing list (pretty sure not on email at
all), but I will tell you what I know.
Bill built his Piet with a 36" center section, and the circular cut-out to
make entry easier. He says this allows for up to a 15 gallon fuel tank. We
are using the Corvair as well, and that is the main impetus for wanting a
little more fuel capacity. Bill's Piet has been flying for something like 14
years, so it works. Pics of his Piet are at:
http://www.westcoastpiet.com/new_page_3.htm
Bill sells a collection of building tips and info for $20, or you can
purchase individual topics for $2 and a SASE. The center section info is one
page, with hand sketches and drawings, text descriptions and notes. It's not
quite a "plan sheet" like the Pietenpol plans, but it has all the
information you need presented pretty clearly. Personally I would recommend
just sending Bill a check for $20 and get the whole collection. There is all
sorts of good information, ideas, and articles contained therein, in my
opinion. He also includes a CD recording of his 2006 Oshkosh forum. I've
attached a scan of the sheet Bill hands out at his forum. This lists all the
topics in the packet, and has his address at the bottom. If you need any
more info, or it doesn't come through just let me know.
Hope that helps. Have a good day,
Ryan
On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 10:42 AM, Kip and Beth Gardner <
kipandbeth@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Ryan,
> What is Bill Rewey's 3 ft. center section concept? I missed that
> somewhere. Does bill sell plans and/or a drawings of how he does this?
> (Bill, feel free to answer directly, I'm real interested - one of my
> concerns about the Corvair is that it's fuel consumption makes a 10-12 gal.
> tank in the center section a little bit scant in terms of duration).
>
> Thanks!
>
> Kip Gardner
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200 |
If you are widening it out and using a motor with over twice the original H
P=2C I'm not going to flame you for saying that the original aircraft must
be respected and/or preserved. It's
like wanting an all original 1932 ford 3 window coupe=2C but wanting it wit
h a Chevy 350 and air conditioning. But I'm going to keep the original bra
kes because they have worked well
since 1932=2C and you have to respect the originality. =3B)
Seriously though=2C if you are going to the extent of building a widebody w
ith a modern big number powerplant (and thus no slant nosed piet which I th
ink looks way cool) then I think originality is
out of the window. But if I had to pick 2 of the three (space=2C power=2C
modern foil) I would definately pick the two that you have picked. Can't w
ait to see some pics and hear about
it's habits. I might have to copycat your build. Sounds like it's going t
o be pretty swiet.
Jonathan
. O-200From: amsafetyc@aol.comDate: Mon=2C 1 Sep 2008 13:18:51 +0000
For me=2C Bernie is the man so I am going with the original foil=2C its wor
ked well since 1929 hard to justify something else. Especially with keeping
most all fuse elements in balance. If it were not for my personal preferen
ces for room and power I would have stayed more on plan. Built its my airpl
ane so that's the direction Iam going. I believe its a matter of choice for
me I chose the Piet because that's what I wanted warts and all. If you're
looking for great climb=2C speed=2C aerobatics or big usable weight and 4 p
lace you may be better satisfied looking elsewhere. I think you got to have
a certain appreciation for project and a love for your piet or you'll only
be flying the piss out or her till she dies. Sorry for the sermon on the p
iet but you got to love and respect her. Just my never humble opinion=2C le
t the flames begin!GepittoJohn RecineNX895BP reserved and building
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
From: Jonathan Ragle <jon95gt@hotmail.com>Date: Mon=2C 1 Sep 2008 07:45:41
-0500To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: A65 vs.
C90 vs. O-200
Funny you mention the O-235=2C I had been considering it as an option aswel
l if one can be had for a reasonable price. Would make a very capable piet
. I definately want to stay informed on your build.When you say BP airfoil
do you mean the original Berny Piet design? I figure 80 years later I cou
ld do better than him=2C but perhaps I shouldn't mess with (sort of) succes
s. Still in the daydreaming phase.
. O-200From: amsafetyc@aol.comDate: Mon=2C 1 Sep 2008 12:23:51 +0000
JonSome interesting posts I am building a wide body Piet with a lycomimg 02
35 108 hp and the BP air foil. Naturally I have been adding my own touches
=2C after all its my airplane. John RecineNX895BP Reserved Sent from my Ver
izon Wireless BlackBerry
From: Jonathan Ragle <jon95gt@hotmail.com>Date: Mon=2C 1 Sep 2008 07:06:33
-0500To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: A65 vs.
C90 vs. O-200
Hand propping is no big deal. If you are going to wear a leather helmet an
d goggles it is almost required for authenticity purposes. I'm just wantin
g a more realistic 2 seat aircraft at some point=2C but for now I'm going t
o fly the piss out of the piet and leave it like it is. I've got some work
to do=2C I haven't been current since I was 21 and I need a tailwheel endo
rsement. Thinking about building a widened piet with an O-200 and a modifi
ed airfoil. Not sure. I have been out of building since highschool when m
y dad and I built an RV6 and I would like to cut my teeth on spruce. Who k
nows=2C I might build an RV4 or 6 with an O-320 (incomplete kits are cheap
due to being "obsolete") or a Sonexwith an AeroVee. Just wanting to build
or modify something=2C but mostly wanting to FLY. :)
From: zharvey@bellsouth.netTo: pietenpol-list@matronics.comSubject: Re: Pie
tenpol-List: A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200Date: Sun=2C 31 Aug 2008 20:37:25 -0500
Hand propping is like flying with a tail wheel. Not many pilots do it anym
ore and most that do wouldn't have it any other way.
Gene
N502R
----- Original Message -----
From: Jonathan Ragle
Sent: Sunday=2C August 31=2C 2008 3:22 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200
Many thanks! I think my dad talked me out of a swap though. He said "Why
turn an $8000 airplane into an $18=2C000 airplane?". I think I'm going to
buy an exercise bike instead. :)
pol-list@matronics.comSubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200
Jonathan=2CThis information came from Ron Wanttaja's Fly Baby page: http://
www.bowersflybaby.com/Another influential homebuilt=2C and a very informati
ve website. He says the engine info came from Harry Fenton=2C who was/is an
A&P who posted to their mailing list.----------------------------------Mot
or Mount AdaptabilityQuestion:I'm now looking at a KR2 with a C65 engine wh
ich means hand-propping <frown>. The external looks prettygood (in the pict
ure) and should be getting some interior pics and answers to lots of other
questions soon. I do like having the Continental motor. Do you happen to kn
ow if the motor mount for a C65 will work with a C85 or 0200? I'd like to w
ork towards the engine with a starter and more HP if possible.Answer:The mo
tor mount for the A-65 and C85 series is the same in that conical rubber bu
shings are used. As such=2C the overall dimensions from the engine mount l
ugs on the engine to the prop flange shaft remain the same. The C-90-12=2C
-14=2C 16 and O-200 have different mounts and the lugs are set further for
ward on the engine case. These engines can be mounted on the A-65 mount bu
t require about a 2" spacer to position the prop flange in the same locatio
n as the A-65. the C-85-12 will be your best choice for a low-hassle insta
llation. That's what I was able to find thus far. Maybe that will help give
you an idea.RyanOn Thu=2C Aug 28=2C 2008 at 8:33 AM=2C Jonathan Ragle <jon
95gt@hotmail.com> wrote:>> Do these all use the same engine mount? Anyone
know roughly the dimensional difference?>> >> Jonathan st" target=_blan
k>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ttp://forums.matronics.
com =_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Talk to your Yahoo! Friends via Windows Live Messenger. Find Out How href
="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics
.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://f
orums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://w
ww.matronics.com/c
8/29/2008 7:07 AM st" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?P
ietenpol-List ttp://forums.matronics.com =_blank>http://www.matronics.com
/contribution
Be the filmmaker you always wanted to beeao/108588797/direct/01/' target=
'_new'>Make your smash hit http.matronics.com/contribution" target=_blank
>http://www.matronics.com/contr==============
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Message 16
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| Subject: | Turnbuckles: correction!!! |
I apologize for giving out wrong information on the size of cables and turnbuckles
on 41CC. Wrong, wrong!!! I guess I didn't have my reading glasses on and
it wasn't that light in the hangar, but checking everything again today, in the
bright sunlight, confirmed that the wing strut cable braces, as well as the
cabane X-braces, are 1/8" aircraft cable but the turnbuckle ends mike at 5/32".
(Does that make them 10-32 thread?)
The aileron, elevator, rudder, and tailwheel control cables are 3/32" cable. The
tail brace wires are 1/16" cable.
My earlier point is still valid: there are no turnbuckles on 41CC that have 1/4"
thread turnbuckle ends; they are all smaller than that.
Just to pay my penance for giving out wrong information, I started up the engine
and made one circuit of the airfield. "One ping only, Vasily". There were
dove hunters all around the fields since the whitewing dove season is open, so
I didn't care to fly too low, and we were just coming off a TFR since the President
and VP flew in to SA this afternoon, so I just went up and back. Wind
was gusting from the NNE, somewhat of a x-wind, but we managed it and I do apologize
for the misinformation.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Rib jigs, Wood and a Goal |
Tim, I have been building my ribs for a couple weeks now and have a lot of
new, time saving ideas on how to build the jigs, soakers, etc., as well as
building techniques. I am in the process of making a "Hint" video that I
hope I can sell directly to people and send it via email. If you can wait
about another week or so, I should have it done. You would get the first
copy!
I will be advertising my video as soon as I get it done and find a good
medium to do so. (I don't believe the Piet list has such an area.) Since
your question popped up, I thought I would give you a heads up. I was
thinking about $10.00 for the video. Right now it is almost 45 min. in
length. I figure it will be over an hour when finished.
Just a thought. Good luck and welcome to the "club."
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Verthein" <minoxphotographer@yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 9:26 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rib jigs, Wood and a Goal
> <minoxphotographer@yahoo.com>
>
> I've finally set a goal and am ready to get to work. After spending months
> learning and reading it's time to get to it.
>
> Goal: All the ribs done by spring. Since good ol' Minnesota winter is
> gonna kick in in a few weeks! I'm not looking at cranking out ribs in a
> hurry. What are thoughts on jigs? I've seen lots of nifty clamping style,
> etc. I'm perfectly good with doing one side and waiting a day or so to do
> the other. I don't need to crank 'em out assembly line style. Simple
> blocks over plans for positioning, and nailed or stapled gussets then no
> need for clamps? Handiest place to buy the wood for ribs? AS&S? Or are
> they way overpriced?
>
> At this point, planning on Riblett 612. Corvair power, since I have
> Corvair motor experience (in the cars) and already have the Wynne manual
> and many parts on hand. Thinking one piece wing for simplicity.
>
> Comments welcome.
>
> Also, hope everyone who wanted Waldo Pepper got one by now. It's entirely
> possible I missed someone along the way (my organizational skills aren't
> the best) so if you wanted one and I missed you, contact me off list. And
> for those of you (you know who you are) Thanks.
>
> Tim in Bovey
>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Turnbuckles: correction!!! |
"...the trick to playing chicken, is knowing when to flinch..."
If they were dove hunting all day, they probably would have 'led' you too
much, anyhow...
A great weekend for me of making metal parts and starting on the varnish
process...
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, working on fuselage
(11 ribs down.)
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga
Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 3:59 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Turnbuckles: correction!!!
..."One ping only, Vasily"...
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 19
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|
| Subject: | A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200 |
By "widebody" are we talking about 2-3 inches wider than plans? Or are you talking
about something else altogether?
Many have done that, and many have also widened the center wing to 36 inches.
These are not noticeable mods. I have also seen a 44 inch center wing on a Piet.
Tim in central TX
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
>From: Jonathan Ragle <jon95gt@hotmail.com>
>Sent: Sep 1, 2008 4:34 PM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200
>
>
>If you are widening it out and using a motor with over twice the original HP,
I'm not going to flame you for saying that the original aircraft must be respected
and/or preserved. It's
>like wanting an all original 1932 ford 3 window coupe, but wanting it with a Chevy
350 and air conditioning. But I'm going to keep the original brakes because
they have worked well
>since 1932, and you have to respect the originality. ;)
>
>Seriously though, if you are going to the extent of building a widebody with a
modern big number powerplant (and thus no slant nosed piet which I think looks
way cool) then I think originality is
>out of the window. But if I had to pick 2 of the three (space, power, modern
foil) I would definately pick the two that you have picked. Can't wait to see
some pics and hear about
>it's habits. I might have to copycat your build. Sounds like it's going to be
pretty swiet.
>
>Jonathan
>
>
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.comSubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200From:
amsafetyc@aol.comDate: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 13:18:51 +0000
>
>
>For me, Bernie is the man so I am going with the original foil, its worked well
since 1929 hard to justify something else. Especially with keeping most all
fuse elements in balance. If it were not for my personal preferences for room
and power I would have stayed more on plan. Built its my airplane so that's the
direction Iam going. I believe its a matter of choice for me I chose the Piet
because that's what I wanted warts and all. If you're looking for great climb,
speed, aerobatics or big usable weight and 4 place you may be better satisfied
looking elsewhere. I think you got to have a certain appreciation for project
and a love for your piet or you'll only be flying the piss out or her till
she dies. Sorry for the sermon on the piet but you got to love and respect her.
Just my never humble opinion, let the flames begin!GepittoJohn RecineNX895BP
reserved and building
>Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
>
>From: Jonathan Ragle <jon95gt@hotmail.com>Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 07:45:41 -0500To:
<pietenpol-list@matronics.com>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: A65 vs. C90 vs.
O-200
>Funny you mention the O-235, I had been considering it as an option aswell if
one can be had for a reasonable price. Would make a very capable piet. I definately
want to stay informed on your build.When you say BP airfoil do you mean
the original Berny Piet design? I figure 80 years later I could do better than
him, but perhaps I shouldn't mess with (sort of) success. Still in the daydreaming
phase.
>
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.comSubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200From:
amsafetyc@aol.comDate: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 12:23:51 +0000
>
>JonSome interesting posts I am building a wide body Piet with a lycomimg 0235
108 hp and the BP air foil. Naturally I have been adding my own touches, after
all its my airplane. John RecineNX895BP Reserved Sent from my Verizon Wireless
BlackBerry
>
Message 20
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Air Camper NX41CC has the 3-piece wing setup with the Pietenpol plans 24" wide
center section (not the 36" wide center section). I have had occasion to remove
and reinstall the wings on 41CC and I can tell you two things about this:
1. It is quite easy to remove and reinstall one or both wing panels in a couple
of hours if there are two, and preferably three, people on hand to help with
it. Have tools, safety wire, cotter pins, a string and a level (or angle finder)
and it's quite straightforward. The individual wing panels are clumsy but
manageable. And the feeling is indescribable when the wings go onto the fuselage
and it becomes an airplane! Absolutely the most delicious sensation, and
tensioning all the brace wires and control wires are like an orchestra tuning
up for a wonderful concert. One of the most memorable moments of the whole experience.
2. I cannot imagine handling a single-piece wing with fewer than four people or
some very clever adjustable supports and jigs. It must be a very interesting
operation for one person to handle, but we sent men to the moon using only slide-rules,
pencil, paper, and protractors and the pulley is a marvellous invention
that can be used by a clever builder to manage quite a bit on his or her
own. If I were building a Piet from scratch I would not build the one-piece wing
unless I were building in a hangar that I had all to myself, was retired from
my job, and was not in a hurry.
The other thing I can mention is that William Wynne's Corvair-powered Piet had
a 17 gallon centersection fuel tank in its final configuration. He glassed in
the entire center section and accommodated that amount of fuel, presumably with
the conventional Pietenpol airfoil section... somehow. He incorporated a "fuel
rail" down one side of the tank, with the fuel takeoff line at the aft end
of the rail. With the reported fuel consumption of the Corvair being about
6 GPH, such a fuel capacity would give 2 hours range with a very decent reserve,
and that's about as long as one wants to sit in a Piet on a cross-country.
I have never sat in my Piet while flying off a complete tank of fuel down to
the reserve, but came quite close once and do not care to repeat it without a
good reason.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: one-piece wing |
Oscar,
William told me a number of years ago that he had glassed his center
section & gotten the result you mention, but he was never forthcoming
about HOW he did it, except in the most general terms (which I've
forgotten in the intervening 7 or 8 years). 17 gal. seems about right
to get 2 hrs. plus reserve.
Kip Gardner
On Sep 1, 2008, at 9:44 PM, Oscar Zuniga wrote:
> <taildrags@hotmail.com>
>
>
> Air Camper NX41CC has the 3-piece wing setup with the Pietenpol
> plans 24" wide center section (not the 36" w