Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:39 AM - Re: Minimum changes from original plans? (Gene Rambo)
2. 04:56 AM - Re: A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200 (Jonathan Ragle)
3. 05:01 AM - Re: Minimum changes from original plans? (charles loomis)
4. 05:06 AM - Re: A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200 (Jonathan Ragle)
5. 05:25 AM - Re: A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200 (amsafetyc@aol.com)
6. 05:36 AM - Re: A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200 (Ben Charvet)
7. 05:46 AM - Re: A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200 (Jonathan Ragle)
8. 05:52 AM - Re: A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200 (Jonathan Ragle)
9. 06:20 AM - Re: A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200 (amsafetyc@aol.com)
10. 06:32 AM - Rib jigs, Wood and a Goal (Tim Verthein)
11. 08:24 AM - Re: Rib jigs, Wood and a Goal (Ryan Mueller)
12. 08:42 AM - Re: Rib jigs, Wood and a Goal (Kip and Beth Gardner)
13. 08:50 AM - Gustav to visit Corky (Oscar Zuniga)
14. 09:52 AM - Re: Rib jigs, Wood and a Goal (Ryan Mueller)
15. 02:35 PM - Re: A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200 (Jonathan Ragle)
16. 04:00 PM - Turnbuckles: correction!!! (Oscar Zuniga)
17. 04:28 PM - Re: Rib jigs, Wood and a Goal ()
18. 04:34 PM - Re: Turnbuckles: correction!!! (Gary Boothe)
19. 05:11 PM - Re: A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200 (Tim Willis)
20. 06:45 PM - one-piece wing (Oscar Zuniga)
21. 07:33 PM - Re: one-piece wing (Kip and Beth Gardner)
22. 11:02 PM - Official Pietenpol-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
23. 11:06 PM - Official Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Minimum changes from original plans? |
In response to question:
one-piece wing here - spar splice underway as we speak. Also doing
minimal changes from plans. Short fuselage, wire wheels, no brakes,
wood "Jenny-style" gear, tail skid, Model A, etc . . .
Gene
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| Subject: | A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200 |
It's all good my friend. I know that if someone knows the answer they will
post up.
From: horzpool@goldengate.netTo: pietenpol-list@matronics.comSubject: Re: P
ietenpol-List: A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200Date: Sat=2C 30 Aug 2008 20:09:28 -0500
Jonathan
When a post like yous goes unanswered for a couple of days=2C it's not that
you are being ignored. It is a collective=2C "I don't know and don't feel
qualified to comment".
I do know that an A-65 mounts differently than an O-200=2C but I have no fu
rther info on that. I also don't know about a C-90.
You need to talk with an A&I who works with those models.
Good luck
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jonathan Ragle
Sent: Thursday=2C August 28=2C 2008 8:33 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200
Do these all use the same engine mount? Anyone know roughly the dimensiona
l difference? Jonathan
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| Subject: | Re: Minimum changes from original plans? |
I was thinking about using 21" Alloy Motorcycle Wheels, making a set of wide hubs,
using custom made spokes, and mounting small hydrolic disk brakes from a thumpster
dirtbike.
--- On Mon, 9/1/08, Gene Rambo <generambo@msn.com> wrote:
> From: Gene Rambo <generambo@msn.com>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Minimum changes from original plans?
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Date: Monday, September 1, 2008, 8:38 PM
> In response to question:
>
> one-piece wing here - spar splice underway as we speak.
> Also doing minimal changes from plans. Short fuselage, wire
> wheels, no brakes, wood "Jenny-style" gear, tail
> skid, Model A, etc . . .
>
> Gene
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| Subject: | A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200 |
Hand propping is no big deal. If you are going to wear a leather helmet an
d goggles it is almost required for authenticity purposes. I'm just wantin
g a more realistic 2 seat aircraft at some point=2C but for now I'm going t
o fly the piss out of the piet and leave it like it is. I've got some work
to do=2C I haven't been current since I was 21 and I need a tailwheel endo
rsement. Thinking about building a widened piet with an O-200 and a modifi
ed airfoil. Not sure. I have been out of building since highschool when m
y dad and I built an RV6 and I would like to cut my teeth on spruce. Who k
nows=2C I might build an RV4 or 6 with an O-320 (incomplete kits are cheap
due to being "obsolete") or a Sonexwith an AeroVee. Just wanting to build
or modify something=2C but mostly wanting to FLY. :)
From: zharvey@bellsouth.netTo: pietenpol-list@matronics.comSubject: Re: Pie
tenpol-List: A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200Date: Sun=2C 31 Aug 2008 20:37:25 -0500
Hand propping is like flying with a tail wheel. Not many pilots do it anym
ore and most that do wouldn't have it any other way.
Gene
N502R
----- Original Message -----
From: Jonathan Ragle
Sent: Sunday=2C August 31=2C 2008 3:22 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200
Many thanks! I think my dad talked me out of a swap though. He said "Why
turn an $8000 airplane into an $18=2C000 airplane?". I think I'm going to
buy an exercise bike instead. :)
pol-list@matronics.comSubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200
Jonathan=2CThis information came from Ron Wanttaja's Fly Baby page: http://
www.bowersflybaby.com/Another influential homebuilt=2C and a very informati
ve website. He says the engine info came from Harry Fenton=2C who was/is an
A&P who posted to their mailing list.----------------------------------Mot
or Mount AdaptabilityQuestion:I'm now looking at a KR2 with a C65 engine wh
ich means hand-propping <frown>. The external looks prettygood (in the pict
ure) and should be getting some interior pics and answers to lots of other
questions soon. I do like having the Continental motor. Do you happen to kn
ow if the motor mount for a C65 will work with a C85 or 0200? I'd like to w
ork towards the engine with a starter and more HP if possible.Answer:The mo
tor mount for the A-65 and C85 series is the same in that conical rubber bu
shings are used. As such=2C the overall dimensions from the engine mount l
ugs on the engine to the prop flange shaft remain the same. The C-90-12=2C
-14=2C 16 and O-200 have different mounts and the lugs are set further for
ward on the engine case. These engines can be mounted on the A-65 mount bu
t require about a 2" spacer to position the prop flange in the same locatio
n as the A-65. the C-85-12 will be your best choice for a low-hassle insta
llation. That's what I was able to find thus far. Maybe that will help give
you an idea.RyanOn Thu=2C Aug 28=2C 2008 at 8:33 AM=2C Jonathan Ragle <jon
95gt@hotmail.com> wrote:>> Do these all use the same engine mount? Anyone
know roughly the dimensional difference?>> >> Jonathan
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8/29/2008 7:07 AM
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| Subject: | Re: A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200 |
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| Subject: | Re: A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200 |
If what your really want is to FLY, why not buy a complete flying
airplane. I bought my Baby Ace for a lot cheaper than I'll be able to
build my Piet. Just a thought....
Ben
Jonathan Ragle wrote:
> Who knows, I might build an RV4 or 6 with an O-320 (incomplete kits
> are cheap due to being "obsolete") or a Sonexwith an AeroVee. Just
> wanting to build or modify something, but mostly wanting to FLY. :)
Message 7
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| Subject: | A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200 |
Funny you mention the O-235=2C I had been considering it as an option aswel
l if one can be had for a reasonable price. Would make a very capable piet
.
I definately want to stay informed on your build.When you say BP airfoil do
you mean the original Berny Piet design? I figure 80 years later I could
do better
than him=2C but perhaps I shouldn't mess with (sort of) success. Still in
the daydreaming phase.
. O-200From: amsafetyc@aol.comDate: Mon=2C 1 Sep 2008 12:23:51 +0000
JonSome interesting posts I am building a wide body Piet with a lycomimg 02
35 108 hp and the BP air foil. Naturally I have been adding my own touches
=2C after all its my airplane. John RecineNX895BP Reserved
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
From: Jonathan Ragle <jon95gt@hotmail.com>Date: Mon=2C 1 Sep 2008 07:06:33
-0500To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: A65 vs.
C90 vs. O-200
Hand propping is no big deal. If you are going to wear a leather helmet an
d goggles it is almost required for authenticity purposes. I'm just wantin
g a more realistic 2 seat aircraft at some point=2C but for now I'm going t
o fly the piss out of the piet and leave it like it is. I've got some work
to do=2C I haven't been current since I was 21 and I need a tailwheel endo
rsement. Thinking about building a widened piet with an O-200 and a modifi
ed airfoil. Not sure. I have been out of building since highschool when m
y dad and I built an RV6 and I would like to cut my teeth on spruce. Who k
nows=2C I might build an RV4 or 6 with an O-320 (incomplete kits are cheap
due to being "obsolete") or a Sonexwith an AeroVee. Just wanting to build
or modify something=2C but mostly wanting to FLY. :)
From: zharvey@bellsouth.netTo: pietenpol-list@matronics.comSubject: Re: Pie
tenpol-List: A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200Date: Sun=2C 31 Aug 2008 20:37:25 -0500
Hand propping is like flying with a tail wheel. Not many pilots do it anym
ore and most that do wouldn't have it any other way.
Gene
N502R
----- Original Message -----
From: Jonathan Ragle
Sent: Sunday=2C August 31=2C 2008 3:22 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200
Many thanks! I think my dad talked me out of a swap though. He said "Why
turn an $8000 airplane into an $18=2C000 airplane?". I think I'm going to
buy an exercise bike instead. :)
pol-list@matronics.comSubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200
Jonathan=2CThis information came from Ron Wanttaja's Fly Baby page: http://
www.bowersflybaby.com/Another influential homebuilt=2C and a very informati
ve website. He says the engine info came from Harry Fenton=2C who was/is an
A&P who posted to their mailing list.----------------------------------Mot
or Mount AdaptabilityQuestion:I'm now looking at a KR2 with a C65 engine wh
ich means hand-propping <frown>. The external looks prettygood (in the pict
ure) and should be getting some interior pics and answers to lots of other
questions soon. I do like having the Continental motor. Do you happen to kn
ow if the motor mount for a C65 will work with a C85 or 0200? I'd like to w
ork towards the engine with a starter and more HP if possible.Answer:The mo
tor mount for the A-65 and C85 series is the same in that conical rubber bu
shings are used. As such=2C the overall dimensions from the engine mount l
ugs on the engine to the prop flange shaft remain the same. The C-90-12=2C
-14=2C 16 and O-200 have different mounts and the lugs are set further for
ward on the engine case. These engines can be mounted on the A-65 mount bu
t require about a 2" spacer to position the prop flange in the same locatio
n as the A-65. the C-85-12 will be your best choice for a low-hassle insta
llation. That's what I was able to find thus far. Maybe that will help give
you an idea.RyanOn Thu=2C Aug 28=2C 2008 at 8:33 AM=2C Jonathan Ragle <jon
95gt@hotmail.com> wrote:>> Do these all use the same engine mount? Anyone
know roughly the dimensional difference?>> >> Jonathan st" target=_blan
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| Subject: | A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200 |
Ben=2C
I've already made a deal on a C65 powered piet=2C just waiting to come up w
ith another $1=2C500 and it's half mine. My dad bought half of it from a f
riend and I'm buying him out of the other half. Neither of us have flown i
t so it should be fun to learn. But I still want to start a project. I mi
ss the feeling of building a flying machine with my own two hands. I could
be flying the RV6 but even though the 'ol man and I built it together he p
ut up the cash and I don't like digging around in his toybox.
Jonathan> Date: Mon=2C 1 Sep 2008 08:34:58 -0400> From: bcharvet@bellsouth.
net> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A65 vs.
et@bellsouth.net>> > If what your really want is to FLY=2C why not buy a co
mplete flying > airplane. I bought my Baby Ace for a lot cheaper than I'll
be able to > build my Piet. Just a thought....> Ben> > Jonathan Ragle wrote
:> > Who knows=2C I might build an RV4 or 6 with an O-320 (incomplete kits
> > are cheap due to being "obsolete") or a Sonexwith an AeroVee. Just > >
wanting to build or modify something=2C but mostly wanting to FLY. :)> > >
========> > >
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| Subject: | Re: A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200 |
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Message 10
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| Subject: | Rib jigs, Wood and a Goal |
I've finally set a goal and am ready to get to work. After spending months learning
and reading it's time to get to it.
Goal: All the ribs done by spring. Since good ol' Minnesota winter is gonna kick
in in a few weeks! I'm not looking at cranking out ribs in a hurry. What
are thoughts on jigs? I've seen lots of nifty clamping style, etc. I'm perfectly
good with doing one side and waiting a day or so to do the other. I don't need
to crank 'em out assembly line style. Simple blocks over plans for positioning,
and nailed or stapled gussets then no need for clamps? Handiest place
to buy the wood for ribs? AS&S? Or are they way overpriced?
At this point, planning on Riblett 612. Corvair power, since I have Corvair motor
experience (in the cars) and already have the Wynne manual and many parts on
hand. Thinking one piece wing for simplicity.
Comments welcome.
Also, hope everyone who wanted Waldo Pepper got one by now. It's entirely possible
I missed someone along the way (my organizational skills aren't the best)
so if you wanted one and I missed you, contact me off list. And for those of you
(you know who you are) Thanks.
Tim in Bovey
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Rib jigs, Wood and a Goal |
Tim,
There are many interesting ideas out there about how to build the jig, which
have all worked for that particular builder. Having built one Pietenpol rib
jig and now building the jig for the Riblett airfoil, my opinion on the
matter is to make the jig as simple as possible to do the job correctly. I
want spend more of my time building my airplane than building the "tooling"
to build my airplane. Remember, Pietenpol was building his airplanes in a
tiny little town in Minnesota in the '20s. This only requires as much rocket
science as you make it require.
http://www.eaa.org/video/homebuilders.html
Click on the Wood tab, and there are a number of videos dealing with rib
building to give you an idea.
I think the way they show in the video is pretty simple. If you are using
the Riblett I am assuming you have or will be getting the full size print
from either Roman or Bill. Lay it out flat and double check the dimensions
(spar center to spar center, etc) to make sure they are reasonably close
(mine were just fine). Tape down the full size print. Cover it with plastic
as recommended. Nail your blocks in place and start building.
Initially I was going to not use nails/staples, and use weights instead. But
after actually trying out the stapling method I've changed my mind. I picked
up the cheapest plastic stapler they had at the store (one of the Easyshot
"forward action" staplers for $10). If you just lightly lay the head of the
staple gun against the wood when you shoot, the 1/4" staples do not
penetrate all the way in. If you stop by an office supply store you can get
a cheap ($3 - $4) staple remover that will make quick and easy work of
taking them out without damaging the wood. It's fast, it's easy, and it
works. You don't have to worry about how much weight to use, or about the
gussets sliding around. You don't have to figure out a clamping method.
The additional benefit of stapling is that you can pull the rib out of the
jig as soon as you are done applying the gussets on one side. Flip it over
and put gussets on the other side, and set the whole thing aside to dry.
Although I know you aren't interested in speed, it gives you the option.
Another upside is that you don't have to worry about the rib sticking to the
jig by the time it dries.
I bought my capstrip and ply from AS&S. I think getting it from Aircraft
Spruce or Wicks is the most convenient method. There are those who like to
find spruce of acceptable quality locally, grade the wood themselves, and
rip it down to the dimensions they need. This is a way to do it, but I would
rather just make a phone call and spend more time building. I can't speak
for the rest of the wood to build the aircraft, but at least in regards to
capstrip material Wicks is twice as expensive as Aircraft Spruce ($0.70 per
foot vs $0.32 per foot).
As far as building the one piece vs. the three piece wing, you can find
plenty of discussions on this in the archive, and get feedback from those
list members that have completed their own Piet to see what they think of
it. I have chosen to build the three piece, and here is my reasoning why. A
three piece wing will take up far less space in a workshop. You can deal
with ~12.5 ft panels instead of a 28 ft wing. It will be easier to assemble.
We will use Bill Rewey's 3 ft center section concept, which will give us
plenty of room for fuel to feed the Corvair. Finally, if (god forbid) one
wing is ever damaged for whatever reason, and the other is not, you don't
have to wrangle a 28 ft wing off the airplane to repair it. Just fix the
offending wing panel.
With all of that being said, realize these are just my opinions. I formed
them from talking with successful builders, spending far too much time
reading the archives from this list, reading everything I could get my hands
on, etc. But I have not yet completed a Piet. Take it for what it is worth.
Emulate the builders' methods and ideas you like best that have resulted in
safe flying aircraft to get yourself into the air in a timely fashion.
Hope that helps. Have a good Labor Day everyone!
Ryan
On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 8:26 AM, Tim Verthein <minoxphotographer@yahoo.com>wrote:
> minoxphotographer@yahoo.com>
>
> I've finally set a goal and am ready to get to work. After spending months
> learning and reading it's time to get to it.
>
> Goal: All the ribs done by spring. Since good ol' Minnesota winter is
> gonna kick in in a few weeks! I'm not looking at cranking out ribs in a
> hurry. What are thoughts on jigs? I've seen lots of nifty clamping style,
> etc. I'm perfectly good with doing one side and waiting a day or so to do
> the other. I don't need to crank 'em out assembly line style. Simple blocks
> over plans for positioning, and nailed or stapled gussets then no need for
> clamps? Handiest place to buy the wood for ribs? AS&S? Or are they way
> overpriced?
>
> At this point, planning on Riblett 612. Corvair power, since I have Corvair
> motor experience (in the cars) and already have the Wynne manual and many
> parts on hand. Thinking one piece wing for simplicity.
>
> Comments welcome.
>
> Also, hope everyone who wanted Waldo Pepper got one by now. It's entirely
> possible I missed someone along the way (my organizational skills aren't the
> best) so if you wanted one and I missed you, contact me off list. And for
> those of you (you know who you are) Thanks.
>
> Tim in Bovey
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Rib jigs, Wood and a Goal |
Ryan,
What is Bill Rewey's 3 ft. center section concept? I missed that
somewhere. Does bill sell plans and/or a drawings of how he does
this? (Bill, feel free to answer directly, I'm real interested - one
of my concerns about the Corvair is that it's fuel consumption makes
a 10-12 gal. tank in the center section a little bit scant in terms
of duration).
Thanks!
Kip Gardner
On Sep 1, 2008, at 11:24 AM, Ryan Mueller wrote:
> Tim,
>
> There are many interesting ideas out there about how to build the
> jig, which have all worked for that particular builder. Having
> built one Pietenpol rib jig and now building the jig for the
> Riblett airfoil, my opinion on the matter is to make the jig as
> simple as possible to do the job correctly. I want spend more of my
> time building my airplane than building the "tooling" to build my
> airplane. Remember, Pietenpol was building his airplanes in a tiny
> little town in Minnesota in the '20s. This only requires as much
> rocket science as you make it require.
>
> http://www.eaa.org/video/homebuilders.html
> Click on the Wood tab, and there are a number of videos dealing
> with rib building to give you an idea.
>
> I think the way they show in the video is pretty simple. If you are
> using the Riblett I am assuming you have or will be getting the
> full size print from either Roman or Bill. Lay it out flat and
> double check the dimensions (spar center to spar center, etc) to
> make sure they are reasonably close (mine were just fine). Tape
> down the full size print. Cover it with plastic as recommended.
> Nail your blocks in place and start building.
>
> Initially I was going to not use nails/staples, and use weights
> instead. But after actually trying out the stapling method I've
> changed my mind. I picked up the cheapest plastic stapler they had
> at the store (one of the Easyshot "forward action" staplers for
> $10). If you just lightly lay the head of the staple gun against
> the wood when you shoot, the 1/4" staples do not penetrate all the
> way in. If you stop by an office supply store you can get a cheap
> ($3 - $4) staple remover that will make quick and easy work of
> taking them out without damaging the wood. It's fast, it's easy,
> and it works. You don't have to worry about how much weight to use,
> or about the gussets sliding around. You don't have to figure out a
> clamping method.
>
> The additional benefit of stapling is that you can pull the rib out
> of the jig as soon as you are done applying the gussets on one
> side. Flip it over and put gussets on the other side, and set the
> whole thing aside to dry. Although I know you aren't interested in
> speed, it gives you the option. Another upside is that you don't
> have to worry about the rib sticking to the jig by the time it dries.
>
> I bought my capstrip and ply from AS&S. I think getting it from
> Aircraft Spruce or Wicks is the most convenient method. There are
> those who like to find spruce of acceptable quality locally, grade
> the wood themselves, and rip it down to the dimensions they need.
> This is a way to do it, but I would rather just make a phone call
> and spend more time building. I can't speak for the rest of the
> wood to build the aircraft, but at least in regards to capstrip
> material Wicks is twice as expensive as Aircraft Spruce ($0.70 per
> foot vs $0.32 per foot).
>
> As far as building the one piece vs. the three piece wing, you can
> find plenty of discussions on this in the archive, and get feedback
> from those list members that have completed their own Piet to see
> what they think of it. I have chosen to build the three piece, and
> here is my reasoning why. A three piece wing will take up far less
> space in a workshop. You can deal with ~12.5 ft panels instead of a
> 28 ft wing. It will be easier to assemble. We will use Bill Rewey's
> 3 ft center section concept, which will give us plenty of room for
> fuel to feed the Corvair. Finally, if (god forbid) one wing is ever
> damaged for whatever reason, and the other is not, you don't have
> to wrangle a 28 ft wing off the airplane to repair it. Just fix the
> offending wing panel.
>
> With all of that being said, realize these are just my opinions. I
> formed them from talking with successful builders, spending far too
> much time reading the archives from this list, reading everything I
> could get my hands on, etc. But I have not yet completed a Piet.
> Take it for what it is worth. Emulate the builders' methods and
> ideas you like best that have resulted in safe flying aircraft to
> get yourself into the air in a timely fashion.
>
> Hope that helps. Have a good Labor Day everyone!
>
> Ryan
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 8:26 AM, Tim Verthein
> <minoxphotographer@yahoo.com> wrote:
> <minoxphotographer@yahoo.com>
>
> I've finally set a goal and am ready to get to work. After spending
> months learning and reading it's time to get to it.
>
> Goal: All the ribs done by spring. Since good ol' Minnesota winter
> is gonna kick in in a few weeks! I'm not looking at cranking out
> ribs in a hurry. What are thoughts on jigs? I've seen lots of
> nifty clamping style, etc. I'm perfectly good with doing one side
> and waiting a day or so to do the other. I don't need to crank 'em
> out assembly line style. Simple blocks over plans for positioning,
> and nailed or stapled gussets then no need for clamps? Handiest
> place to buy the wood for ribs? AS&S? Or are they way overpriced?
>
> At this point, planning on Riblett 612. Corvair power, since I have
> Corvair motor experience (in the cars) and already have the Wynne
> manual and many parts on hand. Thinking one piece wing for
> simplicity.
>
> Comments welcome.
>
> Also, hope everyone who wanted Waldo Pepper got one by now. It's
> entirely possible I missed someone along the way (my organizational
> skills aren't the best) so if you wanted one and I missed you,
> contact me off list. And for those of you (you know who you are)
> Thanks.
>
> Tim in Bovey
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Gustav to visit Corky |
Latest projections show the remains of Gustav headed somewhere between Shreveport
and Lufkin, out in Corky's neck of the woods. Shouldn't be much in the way
of wind by then but I'll bet there will be rain.
Won't matter much to ol' Corky though... he's basking in the season opener victory
for his LSU Tigers.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Rib jigs, Wood and a Goal |
Kip,
Unfortunately Bill is not on the mailing list (pretty sure not on email at
all), but I will tell you what I know.
Bill built his Piet with a 36" center section, and the circular cut-out to
make entry easier. He says this allows for up to a 15 gallon fuel tank. We
are using the Corvair as well, and that is the main impetus for wanting a
little more fuel capacity. Bill's Piet has been flying for something like 14
years, so it works. Pics of his Piet are at:
http://www.westcoastpiet.com/new_page_3.htm
Bill sells a collection of building tips and info for $20, or you can
purchase individual topics for $2 and a SASE. The center section info is one
page, with hand sketches and drawings, text descriptions and notes. It's not
quite a "plan sheet" like the Pietenpol plans, but it has all the
information you need presented pretty clearly. Personally I would recommend
just sending Bill a check for $20 and get the whole collection. There is all
sorts of good information, ideas, and articles contained therein, in my
opinion. He also includes a CD recording of his 2006 Oshkosh forum. I've
attached a scan of the sheet Bill hands out at his forum. This lists all the
topics in the packet, and has his address at the bottom. If you need any
more info, or it doesn't come through just let me know.
Hope that helps. Have a good day,
Ryan
On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 10:42 AM, Kip and Beth Gardner <
kipandbeth@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Ryan,
> What is Bill Rewey's 3 ft. center section concept? I missed that
> somewhere. Does bill sell plans and/or a drawings of how he does this?
> (Bill, feel free to answer directly, I'm real interested - one of my
> concerns about the Corvair is that it's fuel consumption makes a 10-12 gal.
> tank in the center section a little bit scant in terms of duration).
>
> Thanks!
>
> Kip Gardner
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200 |
If you are widening it out and using a motor with over twice the original H
P=2C I'm not going to flame you for saying that the original aircraft must
be respected and/or preserved. It's
like wanting an all original 1932 ford 3 window coupe=2C but wanting it wit
h a Chevy 350 and air conditioning. But I'm going to keep the original bra
kes because they have worked well
since 1932=2C and you have to respect the originality. =3B)
Seriously though=2C if you are going to the extent of building a widebody w
ith a modern big number powerplant (and thus no slant nosed piet which I th
ink looks way cool) then I think originality is
out of the window. But if I had to pick 2 of the three (space=2C power=2C
modern foil) I would definately pick the two that you have picked. Can't w
ait to see some pics and hear about
it's habits. I might have to copycat your build. Sounds like it's going t
o be pretty swiet.
Jonathan
. O-200From: amsafetyc@aol.comDate: Mon=2C 1 Sep 2008 13:18:51 +0000
For me=2C Bernie is the man so I am going with the original foil=2C its wor
ked well since 1929 hard to justify something else. Especially with keeping
most all fuse elements in balance. If it were not for my personal preferen
ces for room and power I would have stayed more on plan. Built its my airpl
ane so that's the direction Iam going. I believe its a matter of choice for
me I chose the Piet because that's what I wanted warts and all. If you're
looking for great climb=2C speed=2C aerobatics or big usable weight and 4 p
lace you may be better satisfied looking elsewhere. I think you got to have
a certain appreciation for project and a love for your piet or you'll only
be flying the piss out or her till she dies. Sorry for the sermon on the p
iet but you got to love and respect her. Just my never humble opinion=2C le
t the flames begin!GepittoJohn RecineNX895BP reserved and building
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
From: Jonathan Ragle <jon95gt@hotmail.com>Date: Mon=2C 1 Sep 2008 07:45:41
-0500To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: A65 vs.
C90 vs. O-200
Funny you mention the O-235=2C I had been considering it as an option aswel
l if one can be had for a reasonable price. Would make a very capable piet
. I definately want to stay informed on your build.When you say BP airfoil
do you mean the original Berny Piet design? I figure 80 years later I cou
ld do better than him=2C but perhaps I shouldn't mess with (sort of) succes
s. Still in the daydreaming phase.
. O-200From: amsafetyc@aol.comDate: Mon=2C 1 Sep 2008 12:23:51 +0000
JonSome interesting posts I am building a wide body Piet with a lycomimg 02
35 108 hp and the BP air foil. Naturally I have been adding my own touches
=2C after all its my airplane. John RecineNX895BP Reserved Sent from my Ver
izon Wireless BlackBerry
From: Jonathan Ragle <jon95gt@hotmail.com>Date: Mon=2C 1 Sep 2008 07:06:33
-0500To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: A65 vs.
C90 vs. O-200
Hand propping is no big deal. If you are going to wear a leather helmet an
d goggles it is almost required for authenticity purposes. I'm just wantin
g a more realistic 2 seat aircraft at some point=2C but for now I'm going t
o fly the piss out of the piet and leave it like it is. I've got some work
to do=2C I haven't been current since I was 21 and I need a tailwheel endo
rsement. Thinking about building a widened piet with an O-200 and a modifi
ed airfoil. Not sure. I have been out of building since highschool when m
y dad and I built an RV6 and I would like to cut my teeth on spruce. Who k
nows=2C I might build an RV4 or 6 with an O-320 (incomplete kits are cheap
due to being "obsolete") or a Sonexwith an AeroVee. Just wanting to build
or modify something=2C but mostly wanting to FLY. :)
From: zharvey@bellsouth.netTo: pietenpol-list@matronics.comSubject: Re: Pie
tenpol-List: A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200Date: Sun=2C 31 Aug 2008 20:37:25 -0500
Hand propping is like flying with a tail wheel. Not many pilots do it anym
ore and most that do wouldn't have it any other way.
Gene
N502R
----- Original Message -----
From: Jonathan Ragle
Sent: Sunday=2C August 31=2C 2008 3:22 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200
Many thanks! I think my dad talked me out of a swap though. He said "Why
turn an $8000 airplane into an $18=2C000 airplane?". I think I'm going to
buy an exercise bike instead. :)
pol-list@matronics.comSubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200
Jonathan=2CThis information came from Ron Wanttaja's Fly Baby page: http://
www.bowersflybaby.com/Another influential homebuilt=2C and a very informati
ve website. He says the engine info came from Harry Fenton=2C who was/is an
A&P who posted to their mailing list.----------------------------------Mot
or Mount AdaptabilityQuestion:I'm now looking at a KR2 with a C65 engine wh
ich means hand-propping <frown>. The external looks prettygood (in the pict
ure) and should be getting some interior pics and answers to lots of other
questions soon. I do like having the Continental motor. Do you happen to kn
ow if the motor mount for a C65 will work with a C85 or 0200? I'd like to w
ork towards the engine with a starter and more HP if possible.Answer:The mo
tor mount for the A-65 and C85 series is the same in that conical rubber bu
shings are used. As such=2C the overall dimensions from the engine mount l
ugs on the engine to the prop flange shaft remain the same. The C-90-12=2C
-14=2C 16 and O-200 have different mounts and the lugs are set further for
ward on the engine case. These engines can be mounted on the A-65 mount bu
t require about a 2" spacer to position the prop flange in the same locatio
n as the A-65. the C-85-12 will be your best choice for a low-hassle insta
llation. That's what I was able to find thus far. Maybe that will help give
you an idea.RyanOn Thu=2C Aug 28=2C 2008 at 8:33 AM=2C Jonathan Ragle <jon
95gt@hotmail.com> wrote:>> Do these all use the same engine mount? Anyone
know roughly the dimensional difference?>> >> Jonathan st" target=_blan
k>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ttp://forums.matronics.
com =_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Talk to your Yahoo! Friends via Windows Live Messenger. Find Out How href
="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics
.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://f
orums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://w
ww.matronics.com/c
8/29/2008 7:07 AM st" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?P
ietenpol-List ttp://forums.matronics.com =_blank>http://www.matronics.com
/contribution
Be the filmmaker you always wanted to beeao/108588797/direct/01/' target=
'_new'>Make your smash hit http.matronics.com/contribution" target=_blank
>http://www.matronics.com/contr==============
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=86=B7=9F=86=DBi=FF=F7=E8=AE=E9=AC=99=ABk=A2x=9C=B1=CA&=86=DBi=FF=F7=E8=AE
=E9=AC=99=ABk=A2x=9C=B1=CA&=FD=A2=B2=D0=A8=9E=DAn=EBb=A2u=9Em(=ADy8Z
=9EL=A8=B9=FA+=CA=8B=AB=81=E9=DE=AE=8B=AC=B2=EAi=A2=BBLj=DBC=AD=A9ex=B8=AC
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Get thousands of games on your PC=2C your mobile phone=2C and the web with
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=E8=C2=C7=82=85=ABE=01=03=E1=A2=DA=2C=85=AA=DEjwf=B9=C8f=B9=C8f=A2=B7=9A=86
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=07=A7z=BA.=B2=CB=A9=8A=ED1=ABm=0E=B6=A5-=B2=D0=1D=9A)=DA=86=B7
=9F=86=DBi=FF=FC0=C2f=AD=AE=89r=C7(=9B=F7(=9E=DAn=EBb=A2xm=B6=9F=FF
=C3 &j=DA=E8=9E'=2Cr=89r=89=ED=AE&=EE=B6*'=FD=AF=DB=FD=FA'=B7=FAk{=F6=E8
w/=E1=B6i
_________________________________________________________________
Talk to your Yahoo! Friends via Windows Live Messenger. Find out how.
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Message 16
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| Subject: | Turnbuckles: correction!!! |
I apologize for giving out wrong information on the size of cables and turnbuckles
on 41CC. Wrong, wrong!!! I guess I didn't have my reading glasses on and
it wasn't that light in the hangar, but checking everything again today, in the
bright sunlight, confirmed that the wing strut cable braces, as well as the
cabane X-braces, are 1/8" aircraft cable but the turnbuckle ends mike at 5/32".
(Does that make them 10-32 thread?)
The aileron, elevator, rudder, and tailwheel control cables are 3/32" cable. The
tail brace wires are 1/16" cable.
My earlier point is still valid: there are no turnbuckles on 41CC that have 1/4"
thread turnbuckle ends; they are all smaller than that.
Just to pay my penance for giving out wrong information, I started up the engine
and made one circuit of the airfield. "One ping only, Vasily". There were
dove hunters all around the fields since the whitewing dove season is open, so
I didn't care to fly too low, and we were just coming off a TFR since the President
and VP flew in to SA this afternoon, so I just went up and back. Wind
was gusting from the NNE, somewhat of a x-wind, but we managed it and I do apologize
for the misinformation.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Rib jigs, Wood and a Goal |
Tim, I have been building my ribs for a couple weeks now and have a lot of
new, time saving ideas on how to build the jigs, soakers, etc., as well as
building techniques. I am in the process of making a "Hint" video that I
hope I can sell directly to people and send it via email. If you can wait
about another week or so, I should have it done. You would get the first
copy!
I will be advertising my video as soon as I get it done and find a good
medium to do so. (I don't believe the Piet list has such an area.) Since
your question popped up, I thought I would give you a heads up. I was
thinking about $10.00 for the video. Right now it is almost 45 min. in
length. I figure it will be over an hour when finished.
Just a thought. Good luck and welcome to the "club."
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Verthein" <minoxphotographer@yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 9:26 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rib jigs, Wood and a Goal
> <minoxphotographer@yahoo.com>
>
> I've finally set a goal and am ready to get to work. After spending months
> learning and reading it's time to get to it.
>
> Goal: All the ribs done by spring. Since good ol' Minnesota winter is
> gonna kick in in a few weeks! I'm not looking at cranking out ribs in a
> hurry. What are thoughts on jigs? I've seen lots of nifty clamping style,
> etc. I'm perfectly good with doing one side and waiting a day or so to do
> the other. I don't need to crank 'em out assembly line style. Simple
> blocks over plans for positioning, and nailed or stapled gussets then no
> need for clamps? Handiest place to buy the wood for ribs? AS&S? Or are
> they way overpriced?
>
> At this point, planning on Riblett 612. Corvair power, since I have
> Corvair motor experience (in the cars) and already have the Wynne manual
> and many parts on hand. Thinking one piece wing for simplicity.
>
> Comments welcome.
>
> Also, hope everyone who wanted Waldo Pepper got one by now. It's entirely
> possible I missed someone along the way (my organizational skills aren't
> the best) so if you wanted one and I missed you, contact me off list. And
> for those of you (you know who you are) Thanks.
>
> Tim in Bovey
>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Turnbuckles: correction!!! |
"...the trick to playing chicken, is knowing when to flinch..."
If they were dove hunting all day, they probably would have 'led' you too
much, anyhow...
A great weekend for me of making metal parts and starting on the varnish
process...
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, working on fuselage
(11 ribs down.)
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga
Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 3:59 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Turnbuckles: correction!!!
..."One ping only, Vasily"...
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 19
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|
| Subject: | A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200 |
By "widebody" are we talking about 2-3 inches wider than plans? Or are you talking
about something else altogether?
Many have done that, and many have also widened the center wing to 36 inches.
These are not noticeable mods. I have also seen a 44 inch center wing on a Piet.
Tim in central TX
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
>From: Jonathan Ragle <jon95gt@hotmail.com>
>Sent: Sep 1, 2008 4:34 PM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200
>
>
>If you are widening it out and using a motor with over twice the original HP,
I'm not going to flame you for saying that the original aircraft must be respected
and/or preserved. It's
>like wanting an all original 1932 ford 3 window coupe, but wanting it with a Chevy
350 and air conditioning. But I'm going to keep the original brakes because
they have worked well
>since 1932, and you have to respect the originality. ;)
>
>Seriously though, if you are going to the extent of building a widebody with a
modern big number powerplant (and thus no slant nosed piet which I think looks
way cool) then I think originality is
>out of the window. But if I had to pick 2 of the three (space, power, modern
foil) I would definately pick the two that you have picked. Can't wait to see
some pics and hear about
>it's habits. I might have to copycat your build. Sounds like it's going to be
pretty swiet.
>
>Jonathan
>
>
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.comSubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200From:
amsafetyc@aol.comDate: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 13:18:51 +0000
>
>
>For me, Bernie is the man so I am going with the original foil, its worked well
since 1929 hard to justify something else. Especially with keeping most all
fuse elements in balance. If it were not for my personal preferences for room
and power I would have stayed more on plan. Built its my airplane so that's the
direction Iam going. I believe its a matter of choice for me I chose the Piet
because that's what I wanted warts and all. If you're looking for great climb,
speed, aerobatics or big usable weight and 4 place you may be better satisfied
looking elsewhere. I think you got to have a certain appreciation for project
and a love for your piet or you'll only be flying the piss out or her till
she dies. Sorry for the sermon on the piet but you got to love and respect her.
Just my never humble opinion, let the flames begin!GepittoJohn RecineNX895BP
reserved and building
>Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
>
>From: Jonathan Ragle <jon95gt@hotmail.com>Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 07:45:41 -0500To:
<pietenpol-list@matronics.com>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: A65 vs. C90 vs.
O-200
>Funny you mention the O-235, I had been considering it as an option aswell if
one can be had for a reasonable price. Would make a very capable piet. I definately
want to stay informed on your build.When you say BP airfoil do you mean
the original Berny Piet design? I figure 80 years later I could do better than
him, but perhaps I shouldn't mess with (sort of) success. Still in the daydreaming
phase.
>
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.comSubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200From:
amsafetyc@aol.comDate: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 12:23:51 +0000
>
>JonSome interesting posts I am building a wide body Piet with a lycomimg 0235
108 hp and the BP air foil. Naturally I have been adding my own touches, after
all its my airplane. John RecineNX895BP Reserved Sent from my Verizon Wireless
BlackBerry
>
Message 20
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Air Camper NX41CC has the 3-piece wing setup with the Pietenpol plans 24" wide
center section (not the 36" wide center section). I have had occasion to remove
and reinstall the wings on 41CC and I can tell you two things about this:
1. It is quite easy to remove and reinstall one or both wing panels in a couple
of hours if there are two, and preferably three, people on hand to help with
it. Have tools, safety wire, cotter pins, a string and a level (or angle finder)
and it's quite straightforward. The individual wing panels are clumsy but
manageable. And the feeling is indescribable when the wings go onto the fuselage
and it becomes an airplane! Absolutely the most delicious sensation, and
tensioning all the brace wires and control wires are like an orchestra tuning
up for a wonderful concert. One of the most memorable moments of the whole experience.
2. I cannot imagine handling a single-piece wing with fewer than four people or
some very clever adjustable supports and jigs. It must be a very interesting
operation for one person to handle, but we sent men to the moon using only slide-rules,
pencil, paper, and protractors and the pulley is a marvellous invention
that can be used by a clever builder to manage quite a bit on his or her
own. If I were building a Piet from scratch I would not build the one-piece wing
unless I were building in a hangar that I had all to myself, was retired from
my job, and was not in a hurry.
The other thing I can mention is that William Wynne's Corvair-powered Piet had
a 17 gallon centersection fuel tank in its final configuration. He glassed in
the entire center section and accommodated that amount of fuel, presumably with
the conventional Pietenpol airfoil section... somehow. He incorporated a "fuel
rail" down one side of the tank, with the fuel takeoff line at the aft end
of the rail. With the reported fuel consumption of the Corvair being about
6 GPH, such a fuel capacity would give 2 hours range with a very decent reserve,
and that's about as long as one wants to sit in a Piet on a cross-country.
I have never sat in my Piet while flying off a complete tank of fuel down to
the reserve, but came quite close once and do not care to repeat it without a
good reason.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: one-piece wing |
Oscar,
William told me a number of years ago that he had glassed his center
section & gotten the result you mention, but he was never forthcoming
about HOW he did it, except in the most general terms (which I've
forgotten in the intervening 7 or 8 years). 17 gal. seems about right
to get 2 hrs. plus reserve.
Kip Gardner
On Sep 1, 2008, at 9:44 PM, Oscar Zuniga wrote:
> <taildrags@hotmail.com>
>
>
> Air Camper NX41CC has the 3-piece wing setup with the Pietenpol
> plans 24" wide center section (not the 36" wide center section). I
> have had occasion to remove and reinstall the wings on 41CC and I
> can tell you two things about this:
>
> 1. It is quite easy to remove and reinstall one or both wing panels
> in a couple of hours if there are two, and preferably three, people
> on hand to help with it. Have tools, safety wire, cotter pins, a
> string and a level (or angle finder) and it's quite
> straightforward. The individual wing panels are clumsy but
> manageable. And the feeling is indescribable when the wings go
> onto the fuselage and it becomes an airplane! Absolutely the most
> delicious sensation, and tensioning all the brace wires and control
> wires are like an orchestra tuning up for a wonderful concert. One
> of the most memorable moments of the whole experience.
>
> 2. I cannot imagine handling a single-piece wing with fewer than
> four people or some very clever adjustable supports and jigs. It
> must be a very interesting operation for one person to handle, but
> we sent men to the moon using only slide-rules, pencil, paper, and
> protractors and the pulley is a marvellous invention that can be
> used by a clever builder to manage quite a bit on his or her own.
> If I were building a Piet from scratch I would not build the one-
> piece wing unless I were building in a hangar that I had all to
> myself, was retired from my job, and was not in a hurry.
>
> The other thing I can mention is that William Wynne's Corvair-
> powered Piet had a 17 gallon centersection fuel tank in its final
> configuration. He glassed in the entire center section and
> accommodated that amount of fuel, presumably with the conventional
> Pietenpol airfoil section... somehow. He incorporated a "fuel
> rail" down one side of the tank, with the fuel takeoff line at the
> aft end of the rail. With the reported fuel consumption of the
> Corvair being about 6 GPH, such a fuel capacity would give 2 hours
> range with a very decent reserve, and that's about as long as one
> wants to sit in a Piet on a cross-country. I have never sat in my
> Piet while flying off a complete tank of fuel down to the reserve,
> but came quite close once and do not care to repeat it without a
> good reason.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Official Pietenpol-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Pietenpol-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The
complete Pietenpol-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Pietenpol-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
[ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as
Courier. Proportional fonts will cause display formatting errors. ]
This FAQ can also be viewed in HTML online at the following address:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
************************************************************
******* LIST POLICIES AND FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS *******
************************************************************
PLEASE READ. This document contains Pietenpol-List policies and information
for new and old subscribers. Understanding the Pietenpol-List policies will
minimize problems for the Administrator, and will help keep the Pietenpol-List
running smoothly for all of us.
******************************************
*** Quick Start Guide to List Features ***
******************************************
There are many features available on the Matronics Email Lists and each
one is described in detailed below. However, using the List Navigator
you can quickly access the complete set of features available for this
List. The List Navigator can be found at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
****************************************
*** How to Subscribe and Unsubscribe ***
****************************************
Simply go to the Web Page shown below and enter your email address and
select the List(s) that you wish to subscribe or unsubscribed from. You
may also use the handy "Find" function to determine the exact syntax of
your email address as it is subscribed to the List. Please see the
complete instructions at the top of the Web Page for more information.
The Subscribe/Unsubscribe web page is:
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Note that you will receive TWO conformation emails regarding your subsciption
process. The first verifies that your subscription/unsubsciption request
was received, and the second confirms that the process has been completed.
You should receive the first email within a few minutes of your request.
The second conformation will arrive in less than 24 hours. You cannot post
until you receive the second conformation email message.
*****************************
*** How to Post a Message ***
*****************************
Send an email message to:
pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Your message will be redistributed to everyone currently subscribed
to the List.
*****************************************************
*** SPAM Fighter - You Must be Subscribed to Post ***
*****************************************************
When a new post is received by the system, the From: line of the message
is checked and compared against the current subscription list. If the
email address is found, the message is passed on to the List Processor.
If the email address isn't found in the current list of subscribers, it
is dumped. This serves to very effectively thwart 99% of the SPAM that
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Remember, however, that the syntax of your email address is very important
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or Eudora. For example, the following two email addresses may be
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These are some of the features and limits of enclosures on the Matronics
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file size to less-than 200KB, preferably much less.
Microsoft has a really awesome utility available for free that allows
you to Right-Click on a picture in Explorer and automatically
scale it down and resave it. This is a great utility - get it, use it!
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Look for the link "Image Resizer"
3) !! This would seem to go without saying, but I'll say it anyway. Do not
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you can have your files and photos posted on the Matronics web server
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This digest will contain the same information that is currently appended
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small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to archive
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Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to List
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messages from the Pietenpol-List, go to the following Web page, and look
for your email address and a possible reason for your removal.
The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that
automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that
caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox
full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the
Lists you will find record of it at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed
If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel
free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice.
*******************************
*** List Member Information ***
*******************************
If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and
paper mail address in the following format:
smith@somehost.com
Joe Smith
123 Airport Lane
Tower, CA 91234-1234
098-765-1234 w
123-456-7890 h
Please forward this information to the following email address:
requests@matronics.com
I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when
there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT
be used for any other commercial purpose.
****************************************
*** Realtime Web Email List Browsing ***
****************************************
Recent messages posted to the Pietenpol-List are also made available on
the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are
available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject,
Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are
updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message
or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon).
You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List
Browser Interface in view-mode.
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/pietenpol-list
*******************************************
*** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface ***
*******************************************
A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all Pietenpol-List content.
content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email
distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the
List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the
respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to
the web Forums.
You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login.
If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you
will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few
minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the
main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also
enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to
Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the
Email Distribution of the List, however.
The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL:
http://forums.matronics.com
*********************************
*** Matronics Email List Wiki ***
*********************************
In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed
information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at:
http://wiki.matronics.com
The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information
for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page
where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki
permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately.
While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be
comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any
images and email it to:
wiki-support@matronics.com
One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct
a Wiki page for you.
Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the
Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that
post and convert it into a Wiki page.
*********************
*** List Archives ***
*********************
A file containing of all of the previous postings to the Pietenpol-List is
available on line. The archive file information is available via the
Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below:
* Pietenpol-List.FAQ
- Latest version of the Pietenpol-List Frequently Asked Question
page (this document).
* Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete
- Complete file with most of the email header info removed and
page breaks inserted between messages.
* Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-??
- Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that
can more easily handled.
* Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete.zip
- Same as the Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete file above, but
in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
* Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete.Z
- Same as the Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in
UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
Download Via FTP
----------------
The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com
in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in
a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.)
ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives
Download Via Web
----------------
The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found
toward the bottom of the following web page:
http://www.matronics.com/archives
******************************************
*** Complete List Web Archive Browsing ***
******************************************
All messages posted to the Pietenpol-List are also available using the
Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages
in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed.
http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?Pietenpol
*****************************************
**** High-Speed Archive Search Engine ***
*****************************************
You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine
to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the
List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently
available List archives.
http://www.matronics.com/search
****************************
*** File and Photo Share ***
****************************
With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures
and other data with members of the List without having to forward a
copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email
them to:
pictures@matronics.com
!! ==> Please including the following information with each submission:
1) Email Lists that they are related to.
2) Your Full Name.
3) Your Email Address.
4) One line Subject description.
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic.
6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file
Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned
for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and
photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to
process them every few days.
Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be
sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new
Share is available and what the direct URL to it is.
For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main
Index Page:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
**************************
*** List Archive CDROM ***
**************************
A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains
all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives
for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search
engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it
and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make
great gifts!
http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM
**********************************
*** List Support Contributions ***
**********************************
The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members.
You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of
annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages
associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November
I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month,
I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they
are comfortable.
I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the
Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated
by companies that are themselves List members.
Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists
including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server
system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many
many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the
variety of services found here.
Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary
and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains
value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude.
Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just
subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in.
The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are
a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and
sending a personal check.
If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to
support its continued operation?
http://www.matronics.com/contributions
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Pietenpol-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Pietenpol-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Pietenpol-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Pietenpol-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
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| Subject: | Official Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
Pietenpol-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Pietenpol-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Pietenpol-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Pietenpol-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Pietenpol-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Pietenpol-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
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