Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:46 AM - Brodhead and OSH (Lawrence Williams)
2. 05:31 AM - Pietenpol Air Camper Turns 80 --Larry William's plane photo included ! (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC])
3. 06:39 AM - Aileron travel limit (Michael Perez)
4. 06:47 AM - Re: Flying the Piet to Brodhead and OSH (Woodflier@aol.com)
5. 06:53 AM - Re: Aileron travel limit (Gary Boothe)
6. 07:17 AM - Re: Re: Flying the Piet to Brodhead and OSH (Phillips, Jack)
7. 07:17 AM - Re: Aileron travel limit (Lagowski Morrow)
8. 08:31 AM - Re: Re: Flying the Piet to Brodhead and OSH (H RULE)
9. 10:14 AM - PIETENPOL WHEELS AND AXLE (TGSTONE236@aol.com)
10. 10:46 AM - Re: Aileron travel limit (jimd)
11. 10:50 AM - Re: Experimenter & Piet Photos (jimd)
12. 01:21 PM - Santa Maria Piet (Dave Abramson)
13. 01:37 PM - (Joemotis@aol.com)
14. 01:42 PM - Re: (Bill Church)
15. 01:42 PM - Re: Miniature table saws (Joemotis@aol.com)
16. 01:49 PM - Re: (Joemotis@aol.com)
17. 01:56 PM - Re: Miniature table saws (Jack T. Textor)
18. 02:25 PM - mini table saw (Cathy Boniface)
19. 03:16 PM - Re: mini table saw (Joemotis@aol.com)
20. 03:36 PM - Re: Re: Aileron travel limit (Michael Perez)
21. 03:53 PM - Re: (H RULE)
22. 04:24 PM - Re: (walt)
23. 05:27 PM - OT sailplane flight (Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB)
24. 05:49 PM - Re: Brodhead and OSH, Don E. (shad bell)
25. 07:57 PM - Re: Aileron travel limit (Mild Bill)
26. 08:56 PM - Re: Aileron travel limit (Mild Bill)
27. 11:40 PM - Re: Alternate Airfoils Riblett 612 and 613.5 (Mild Bill)
Message 1
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Subject: | Brodhead and OSH |
Well, let's see......Brodhead starts on Thursday this year, that means I'll
have to leave AR the prior Friday. Then, to get to OSH by Sunday, I'll hav
e to leave B'head Friday or Saturday- Which will only leave one day to en
joy B'head!
-
Just kidding (but only a little). I'll be at both events but will only spen
d a day or two at OSH as I'm on a fixed income now.My wife and I could go o
n a nice cruise for the cost of staying at OSH for the week.
-
By the way gang; the little airport that I live at is going to have it's fi
rst of what will be an annual fly-in the second week-end in June. It's goin
g to be aimed at fabric-covered tailwheel airplanes and is open to all. My
plan is to eventually spin off a Pietenpol (er, snowflake) fly-in if there
is enough participation.
-
There should be-quite a few-on the list within striking distance of Lit
tle Rock that could attend and-make an impact. Contact me off-line for de
tails. I hate to tie up the list with stuff like this.
-
Larry
-
ps. I'll have hangar space for a couple of planes and our guest quarters wi
ll also be available.=0A=0A=0A
Message 2
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Subject: | Pietenpol Air Camper Turns 80 --Larry William's plane |
photo included !
Pietenpol Air Camper Turns 80
Flight to Oshkosh, special activities planned for AirVenture
<http://www.airventure.org/news/2009/images/Pietenpol%20Aircamper-1.jpg>
Bernard Pietenpol's 1933 Air Camper is the centerpiece of EAA's
Pietenpol Hangar at Pioneer Airport.
<http://www.airventure.org/news/2009/images/PietenpolAirCamper2.jpg>
In the late 1920s, Bernard Pietenpol, of Cherry Grove, Minnesota, had
the dream of designing an inexpensive homebuilt airplane using commonly
available materials and powered by an auto engine. The result, after a
few iterations, was a simple, two-place open cockpit airplane of wood
construction and powered by a four-cylinder Ford Model A automobile
engine. Eighty years later, the Pietenpol Air Camper endures as a
popular homebuilt design built, loved, and flown by thousands of
aviation enthusiasts the world over.
EAA will honor Pietenpol's time-tested, low-and-slow airplane at
AirVenture Oshkosh 2009. Bill Rewey of Verona, Wisconsin, EAA 42474, is
helping organize a gathering of Air Camper builders, pilots, and planes
to participate in the celebration.
"Right now we're talking about flying up from Brodhead (Wisconsin) on
Sunday morning (July 26) in autonomous groups of five," said Rewey, a
member of the Brodhead Pietenpol Association type club, which convenes
its reunion there the weekend before Oshkosh. "We are also encouraging
those with radios to use the regular Fisk approach." Arriving Air
Campers will have reserved parking south of Homebuilders Headquarters
near the old main entry arch.
Rewey will also change the format of his annual Pietenpol forum,
traditionally held on Tuesday morning during AirVenture. "Instead of my
traditional discussion of the airplane, we'll have individual builders
attend and spend a few moments each talking about their airplanes," he
said.
Also being planned some time during AirVenture is a special reception
for builders and Air Camper pilots at EAA's Pietenpol Hangar on Pioneer
Airport. On display there is Bernard's own N12937, which was built in
1933 and is considered the oldest Air Camper in existence.
EAA further honors the Air Camper this year by depicting the airplane on
the "I Flew My Homebuilt" patch given to all homebuilders registering at
Homebuilt Headquarters.
Look for more information as events and activities are confirmed at
www.AirVenture.org <http://www.airventure.org/> . Pietenpol owners
wishing to participate at Oshkosh should visit the Brodhead Pietenpol
Association website, www.pietenpols.org <http://www.pietenpols.org/> .
Pietenpol Air Camper - Specifications
Length: 17 ft, 8 in
Wingspan: 29 ft 0 in
Height: 6.5 ft 6 in
Wing area: 145 sq ft
Empty weight: 620 lbs
Max takeoff weight: 1,040 lbs
Powerplant: Original - Ford Model A. (Others include Velie, Kinner,
Lycoming, Franklin, Continental, and Chevy Corvair)
Maximum speed: 86 knots (100 mph)
Stall speed: 30 knots (35 mph)
Rate of climb: 500 ft/min
Message 3
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Subject: | Aileron travel limit |
What seems to be the limiting factor on aileron travel? Is it the stick, le
gs or the aileron itself? (hinge screws, bell crank, design...)
-
-
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Flying the Piet to Brodhead and OSH |
I'm trying to get my Piet finished and the time flown off so that I can fly
it to Brodhead and then on the OSH with the group this year. I'd say the odd
were about 50-50 that I'll be finished in time but I'm working most every
evening on it. Last night, I welded up two of the fittings for the engine mount
that attach the mount to the fuselage fittings so it's moving along. Depending
on how long it takes to get the engine torn down, inspected and put back
together, I think I have a shot at it.
Jack, if it all comes together, maybe we could meet up somewhere and go in
as a flight of two.
Matt Paxton
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
steps!
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Subject: | Aileron travel limit |
Yes.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, working on fuselage (endless metal parts!)
(12 ribs down.)
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
Perez
Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 6:38 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aileron travel limit
What seems to be the limiting factor on aileron travel? Is it the stick,
legs or the aileron itself? (hinge screws, bell crank, design...)
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Flying the Piet to Brodhead and OSH |
Sounds good, Matt. I'll be launching from Smith Mountain Lake, since
that is where I base the Piet now. First stop will likely be Beckley,
West Virginia. By that point we will have the worst of the mountains
behind us.
Last year, on the leg between Martinsville VA and Beckley WV, the GPS
said I was making 27 knots groundspeed.
Here's a picture of typical terrain on that leg. Not a very good place
for a forced landing.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Woodflier@aol.com
Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 9:46 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Flying the Piet to Brodhead and OSH
I'm trying to get my Piet finished and the time flown off so that I can
fly it to Brodhead and then on the OSH with the group this year. I'd say
the odd were about 50-50 that I'll be finished in time but I'm working
most every evening on it. Last night, I welded up two of the fittings
for the engine mount that attach the mount to the fuselage fittings so
it's moving along. Depending on how long it takes to get the engine torn
down, inspected and put back together, I think I have a shot at it.
Jack, if it all comes together, maybe we could meet up somewhere and go
in as a flight of two.
Matt Paxton
_____
A Good Credit Score
i3x1201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?
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easy steps!
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rohibited.
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orsk - Portuguese
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Aileron travel limit |
My legs are my aileron stops--Jim Lagowski
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Perez
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 9:38 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aileron travel limit
What seems to be the limiting factor on aileron travel? Is it
the stick, legs or the aileron itself? (hinge screws, bell crank,
design...)
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
1/23/2009 7:28 AM
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Flying the Piet to Brodhead and OSH |
Sure- is puuuuuurdy though!=0A=0Ado not archive=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A___________
_____________________=0AFrom: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips@cardinalhealt
h.com>=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Friday, January 23, 2009
10:15:57 AM=0ASubject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Flying the Piet to Brodhead
and OSH=0A=0A=0ASounds good, Matt.- I=A2ll be launching from Smith Mounta
in Lake , since that is where I base the Piet now.- First stop will likel
y be Beckley , West Virginia .- By that point we will have the worst of t
he mountains behind us.=0A-=0ALast year, on the leg between Martinsville
VA and Beckley WV , the GPS said I was making 27 knots groundspeed.=0A-
=0AHere=A2s a picture of typical terrain on that leg.- Not a very good pl
ace for a forced landing.=0A-=0AJack Phillips=0ANX899JP=0A-=0A=0A______
__________________________=0A=0AFrom:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.
com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Woodfli
er@aol.com=0ASent: Friday, January 23, 2009 9:46 AM=0ATo: pietenpol-list@ma
tronics.com=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Flying the Piet to Brodhead and
OSH=0A-=0AI'm trying to get my Piet finished and the time flown off so th
at I can fly it to Brodhead and then on the OSH with the group this year. I
'd say the odd were about 50-50 that I'll be finished in time but I'm worki
ng most every evening on it. Last night, I welded up two of the fittings fo
r the engine mount that attach the mount to the fuselage fittings so it's m
oving along. Depending on how long it takes to get the engine torn down, in
spected and put back together, I think I have a shot at it. =0A-=0AJack,
if it all comes together, maybe we could meet up somewhere and go in as a f
light of two.=0A-=0AMatt Paxton=0A-=0A=0A______________________________
__=0A=0AA Good Credit Score i3x1201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecredit
report.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=Decemailfooter
NO62"> See yours in just 2 easy steps!=0A -=0A -=0Ahttp://www.matronics
.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com=0Ahttp://www.ma
tronics.com/contribution=0A -=0A_________________________________________
________=0A=0AThis message is for the designated recipient only and may con
tain privileged, proprietary=0Aor otherwise private information. If you hav
e received it in error, please notify the sender=0Aimmediately and delete t
Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - P
ortuguese=0A
Message 9
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Subject: | PIETENPOL WHEELS AND AXLE |
I have a 1 1/2 in x 63 1/2 in axle for sale with 2- 36 spoke 16 in wheels.
tires are 3.50 x 16 . tires need to be replaced, and can be ordered from JC
Whitney. Wheels are more adaptable for no a brake Pietenpol with tail skid. Can
be yours for $ 125.00 plus shipping. Reach me off list if interested.
TGSTONE236@AOL.COM
Ted Stone
910-617-5232
Wilmington NC
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
steps!
cemailfooterNO62)
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Aileron travel limit |
Believe they all can come in to play. My plane is an oddball for this list, as
it is based on a GN-1, but is a biplane variant on it. The top wing's aileron's
are able to move almost 180 degrees before any control cables are attached,
but 90 degrees up or down would not work so much like an aileron, but more like
a brake, so I doubt anyone would want anywhere near that range of motion, and
with the control horns and cables it would be far less than that.
On my plane the lower wing has a different aileron configuration. The back of the
wing where the aileron is located slopes, and the aileron is attached at the
top of the wing, limiting travel a good deal. It can move up a long way, but
down maybe 50 degrees. It is worked by a control rod linking it to the upper
ailerons, so when all the control horns and everything are taken in to account,
I probably am starting with 40 degrees up/down before the limits come in with
the stick's range of motion or any other limits.
What prompted the question? Seems like the ailerons are large enough and responsive
enough to work for most people.
Jim D.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=226394#226394
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Experimenter & Piet Photos |
Oscar Zuniga's Flying Squirrel project is featured in the first edition.
Way to go Oscar!
Jim D.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=226398#226398
Message 12
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Subject: | Santa Maria Piet |
Sure! I live in Orange County, and go up to Santa Maria to work on the piet
as much as I can.
It would have to be GOOD timing for us to meet up!
Give me a call next week! 714-721-5299!
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
amsafetyc@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 1:44 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet News Letter Photo
Dave
Is that an open invitation? I am not really certain where those areas are
however Ill be in Ontario,Fontana,City of Industry the week of Jan 26 and
would enjoy looking at Piets in progress. Even at the risk of inviting
myself.
The unbridled avarice of Pietenpol mania knows no shame or humility.
John
------Original Message------
From: Dave Abramson
Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
ReplyTo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Jan 22, 2009 11:56 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet News Letter Photo
<davea@symbolicdisplays.com>
Hi Chris!
I am building my Pietenpol at Santa Maria Airport! There are a couple at
San Luis Obispo, and one at Lompoc.
If you are ever in in the area you can check out mine!
Cheers!
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Catdesigns
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 8:32 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet News Letter Photo
The picture of Ted Davis's plane I believe was taken by Bill Church. Sorry
for all the confusion. I will Email Doc and let him know where the credit
should go.
As for the website, the vast majority of the photos on WestCostPiet.com were
not taken by me because I have only seen two completed and three under
construction Pietenpols (including my own) in my life time. I have never
seen one fly. Sad I know but I cant get Mike Cuy to fly his over the Sierras
so I can see one fly. I know there are a few Pietenpols here in California
but I guess they have to keep them hidden from all the RV and Fast Glass
owners.
A lot of the early photos I got off the internet. Since then I have been
given photos by a few other sources, such as Bill. I didn't anticipate
others using them in published documents so I never thought about trying to
add credit for the photographer. They were used only to help me build.
Prior to the website I used to send people copies on CD but found it cheaper
in the long run to put them on a web page. In the future I will try to add
a photographer name to the photos if I can find a easy way to do it.
Speaking of photos, we need more construction photos on the site. If some
of you builders could send me some pictures, I would really appreciate it.
You can remain anonymous or go by a code name if you want.
Chris
--------
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, CA
WestCoastPiet.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=226182#226182
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
Message 13
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Anyone have a recommendation for a high quality miniature table saw to use
building a Pietenpol Thanks,
Joe Motis
No Archivos
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=226394#226394
**************From Wall Street to Main Street and everywhere in between, stay
up-to-date with the latest news. (http://aol.com?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000023)
Message 14
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Miniature table saw?
Why miniature?
Bill C.
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: tenpol-List:Miniature table saws |
In a message dated 1/23/2009 1:38:14 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
Joemotis@aol.com writes:
Anyone have a recommendation for a high quality miniature table saw to use
building a Pietenpol Thanks,
Joe Motis
No Archivos
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=226394#226394
the such e, nbsp; --> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
; --> =======================
- List Contribution Web Site ========================
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with the _latest news_ (http://aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000023) .
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List)
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Message 16
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Space requirements. My 10" Dewalt on the folding stand is a little big for
my current work area. I also build G scale train buildings and it is to large
for some of the smaller parts. I have seen the Junque one at Harbor Freight
and it is no way near suitable. I remember Dremel made one but not
anymore.Hmm.. maybe e bay
Joe Motis
No Archivos
In a message dated 1/23/2009 1:43:10 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
eng@canadianrogers.com writes:
Miniature table saw?
Why miniature?
Bill C.
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
**************From Wall Street to Main Street and everywhere in between, stay
up-to-date with the latest news. (http://aol.com?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000023)
Message 17
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Subject: | tenpol-List:Miniature table saws |
Joe,
I guess I also ask why mini. I bought the large 3HP belt drive Central
Machine and couldn't be happier. Like it much more than my Craftsman.
Jack
www.textors.com
Message 18
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try the proxxon miniature table saw , you will like it. it can do
anything a big saw can do except take up a lot of room. just google
proxxon and have a look
wayne
Message 19
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Subject: | Re: mini table saw |
Thanks Wayne, that is exactly what I am looking for.
Pricey little guy, have to start searching. Did see two Dremel saws on E Bay
at over a hundred bucks and bidding was not over.
Joe Motis
No Archivos
In a message dated 1/23/2009 2:26:14 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
catway@sympatico.ca writes:
try the proxxon miniature table saw , you will like it. it can do anything a
big saw can do except take up a lot of room. just google proxxon and have a
look
wayne
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
**************From Wall Street to Main Street and everywhere in between, stay
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Subject: | Re: Aileron travel limit |
I was asking because if, lets say, everyone said the travel was design rela
ted, maybe a change would be in order. But if it was solely restricted due
to legs, then well, that may be a personal issue.- My ailerons will be sl
ightly shorter in length, so I was curious if I may get more "throw" from t
hem.
-
--- On Fri, 1/23/09, jimd <jlducey@hotmail.com> wrote:
From: jimd <jlducey@hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aileron travel limit
<jlducey@hotmail.com>
Believe they all can come in to play. My plane is an oddball for this list,
as
it is based on a GN-1, but is a biplane variant on it. The top wing's
aileron's are able to move almost 180 degrees before any control cables are
attached, but 90 degrees up or down would not work so much like an aileron,
but
more like a brake, so I doubt anyone would want anywhere near that range of
motion, and with the control horns and cables it would be far less than tha
t.
On my plane the lower wing has a different aileron configuration. The back
of
the wing where the aileron is located slopes, and the aileron is attached a
t the
top of the wing, limiting travel a good deal. It can move up a long way, bu
t
down maybe 50 degrees. It is worked by a control rod linking it to the uppe
r
ailerons, so when all the control horns and everything are taken in to acco
unt,
I probably am starting with 40 degrees up/down before the limits come in wi
th
the stick's range of motion or any other limits.
What prompted the question? Seems like the ailerons are large enough and
responsive enough to work for most people.
Jim D.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=226394#226394
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Subject: | Re: tenpol-List: |
for makin small airplanes;-------------- sorry
guys I couldn't resist!=0A=0A=0Adon't archive=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_______________
_________________=0AFrom: Bill Church <eng@canadianrogers.com>=0ATo: pieten
pol-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Friday, January 23, 2009 4:41:32 PM=0ASubjec
t: RE: Pietenpol-List:=0A=0A=0AMiniature table saw?=0AWhy miniature?=0A-
=========================0A
========================
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Subject: | Re: tenpol-List: |
Joe,
Unless your plan is to cut all your wood stock from large timber, I
wouldn't waste your money.
During building my project I did 99.9% of cutting on a Delta 10 in band
saw, from Home Depot or Lowes.
Besides builders don't realize how much good wood is wasted with the
width of a table saw blade.
PS If you have no tools and want to get the essentials......Small Band
saw,,and bench drill press,,,start building
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Joemotis@aol.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 4:37 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List:
Anyone have a recommendation for a high quality miniature table saw to
use building a Pietenpol Thanks,
Joe Motis
No Archivos
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=226394#226394
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Subject: | OT sailplane flight |
Do Not Archive
OT
I just did my first Sailplane flight at 5C1. Not much lift but what a great experience.
You really have to stomp on the rudder to get the thing to turn. Very relaxing
all in all.
I may try it again in the future.
Blue Skies,
Steve D
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Subject: | Re: Brodhead and OSH, Don E. |
Don, sounds good, I already have the week of Brodhead and Oshkosh sceduled
for vacation so that isn't a problem.- As long as my boss (wife) lets me
I'm in for- thurs departure, tue return.- I am trying to talk dad into
going, after all he did build the thing,- I only helped at the end with t
he metal work.- I was at the dreaded chasing women and beer phase when co
nstruction began, but thankfully grew out of it when I met my wonderful wif
e, whom I now have a beutiful son with, and hopeful future "Pieter".- Pie
tenpol Overcast 2009 here we come!
-
Shad
-
P.S. Dad will be driving his truck if he goes, we will have room for any ex
cess luggage you want to bring, tent, sleep bag cooler etc, we can work tha
t out later but keep it in mind.=0A=0A=0A
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Subject: | Re: Aileron travel limit |
jimd wrote:
> Believe they all can come in to play. My plane is an oddball for this list, as
it is based on a GN-1, but is a biplane variant on it. The top wing's aileron's
are able to move almost 180 degrees before any control cables are attached,
but 90 degrees up or down would not work so much like an aileron, but more like
a brake, so I doubt anyone would want anywhere near that range of motion,
and with the control horns and cables it would be far less than that.
>
> On my plane the lower wing has a different aileron configuration. The back of
the wing where the aileron is located slopes, and the aileron is attached at
the top of the wing, limiting travel a good deal. It can move up a long way, but
down maybe 50 degrees. It is worked by a control rod linking it to the upper
ailerons, so when all the control horns and everything are taken in to account,
I probably am starting with 40 degrees up/down before the limits come in with
the stick's range of motion or any other limits.
>
> What prompted the question? Seems like the ailerons are large enough and responsive
enough to work for most people.
>
> Jim D.
40 degrees deflection is probably beyond the range of usefulness. I would have
to dig around in reference material to verify this, but if memory serves me correctly
the rate of change in lift with change in deflection for ailerons is fairly
linear up to about 15 or 20 degrees, then starts falling off more and more
rapidly until somewhere in the range between 30 and 40 degrees you get no change
in lift with increasing deflection (but the drag keeps on increasing more
and more rapidly, the last thing you need on a Pietenpol or GN-1).
--------
Bill Frank
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=226483#226483
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Subject: | Re: Aileron travel limit |
speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.n wrote:
> I was asking because if, lets say, everyone said the travel was design related,
maybe a change would be in order. But if it was solely restricted due to legs,
then well, that may be a personal issue. My ailerons will be slightly shorter
in length, so I was curious if I may get more "throw" from them.
Why will they be shorter?
In general, you can get the same control authority with shorter ailerons by increasing
the amount of deflection for the same joystick motion, but this only works
up to a point because the shorter ailerons will hit the range of diminishing
returns first. By the time the longer ailerons hit that range, they have generated
a greater change in lift. The upshot of it all is that you can arrange
for the control feel to be about the same for low to moderate roll commands,
but the shorter ailerons will "run out of gas" when you get toward the limits.
There is an exception to this. (It always has to get more complicated, doesn't
it?) The stock Pietenpol has ailerons that go all the way out to a squared off
tip. The last foot or so isn't as effective as the inboard area because it's
immersed in the turbulent, chaotic flow whirling around the wingtips. You could
chop the aileron off at half the distance between its tip and the end of its
outermost diagonal brace without losing a significant amount of control authority.
Better yet just shift the whole aileron one rib bay inward and shorten it
slightly to the length of 6 rib bays.
If your ailerons are going to be shorter because you're going to be chopping off
some of the wing span, why would you want to be increasing the induced drag
of the wing?
--------
Bill Frank
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=226492#226492
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Subject: | Re: Alternate Airfoils Riblett 612 and 613.5 |
It only takes a small bunch of analysis to come up with a close estimate of where
to set the incidence of the Riblett 612 or 613.5 relative to the Pietenpol
FC-10.
We know from Mike Shuck's "Commentary on the Pietenpol Airfoil" that the Pietenpol
FC-10 has zero lift when its geometric chord line is at an angle of attack
very close to -5 deg. This link should work (warning: it's 2.27 MB, so if you're
on dial up you can sit back and grow a nice beard while you're downloading):
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/kchambers@winternals.com.04.10.2004/Commentary_on_the_Pietenpol_Airfoil.doc
Now, it was asserted in http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=43066 that the Riblett 612 is very similar to the NACA 4412. If so, the angle of attack at zero lift of the Riblett 612 will be very close to that of the NACA 4412, which can be found here:
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19930081141_1993081141.pdf
Glancing at Fig. 5 confirms a rough mental calculation interpolating the data in
Table XV: The zero-lift angle of attack of the NACA 4412 is about -3.9 deg.
Not a whole lot different from the Pietenpol FC-10, but you'll probably have less
fiddling around to do if you start with the Riblett 612 at a geometric angle
of incidence 1.1 deg greater than what is specified for the Pietenpol FC-10.
(The same probably holds true for the Riblett 613.5, which is presumably not
much if any different in mean camber line from the Riblett 612.)
The angle of incidence of the horizontal tail would not be changed.
--------
Bill Frank
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=226498#226498
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