Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:48 AM - Re: Re: Fuselage length (Gene Rambo)
2. 05:34 AM - Re: Keeping the C.G. from getting to far aft (Will42)
3. 06:01 AM - Re: Keeping the C.G. from getting to far aft (Don Emch)
4. 06:19 AM - Wt/Bal (Lawrence Williams)
5. 06:30 AM - Re: Keeping the C.G. from getting to far aft (Will42)
6. 08:21 AM - Re: Re: Keeping the C.G. from getting to far aft (Rick Holland)
7. 08:40 AM - Re: Wt/Bal (Jack Phillips)
8. 08:40 AM - Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 27 Msgs - 07/02/09 (Tim Willis)
9. 09:10 AM - Re: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 27 Msgs - 07/02/09 (Jack Phillips)
10. 09:25 AM - ALittle Help (Isablcorky@aol.com)
11. 09:38 AM - Re: Re: Keeping the C.G. from getting to far aft (Mark Roberts)
12. 09:51 AM - Re: ALittle Help (Kip and Beth Gardner)
13. 10:11 AM - Re: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 27 Msgs - 07/02/09 (Tim Willis)
14. 10:19 AM - Re: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 27 Msgs - 07/02/09 (Bill Church)
15. 10:19 AM - Re: it's alive! (shad bell)
16. 10:20 AM - Re: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 27 Msgs - 07/02/09 (Mark Roberts)
17. 10:22 AM - T-88 (Mark Roberts)
18. 10:23 AM - Re: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 27 Msgs - 07/02/09 (Mark Roberts)
19. 10:26 AM - Re: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 27 Msgs - 07/02/09 (Mark Roberts)
20. 10:37 AM - Re: ALittle Help (Rod Young)
21. 11:21 AM - Re: T-88 (Rob Stapleton)
22. 11:36 AM - Re: T-88 (K5YAC)
23. 11:39 AM - Re: T-88 (Jim Quinn)
24. 11:40 AM - Re: Re: Keeping the C.G. from getting to far aft (Lagowski Morrow)
25. 11:40 AM - Re: T-88 (Lagowski Morrow)
26. 11:43 AM - Re: ALittle Help (Ryan Mueller)
27. 11:56 AM - Re: Re: Keeping the C.G. from getting to far aft (Ryan Mueller)
28. 12:46 PM - Re: Wt/Bal (Don Emch)
29. 12:54 PM - Re: Wt/Bal (Lloyd Smith)
30. 12:54 PM - Re: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 27 Msgs - 07/02/09 (shad bell)
31. 01:11 PM - Re: Re: Wt/Bal (Jack Phillips)
32. 01:11 PM - Re: buick v8 (Steve Glass)
33. 01:12 PM - Re: Re: Wt/Bal (Dave Abramson)
34. 04:35 PM - Re: Keeping the C.G. from getting to far aft (skellytown flyer)
35. 04:38 PM - Re: Re: Keeping the C.G. from getting to far aft (Mark Roberts)
36. 04:42 PM - Re: it's alive! (skellytown flyer)
37. 07:10 PM - Re: Re: Wt/Bal (Lloyd Smith)
38. 07:10 PM - (no subject) (Isablcorky@aol.com)
39. 07:41 PM - Re: (no subject) (Ryan Mueller)
40. 10:14 PM - Re: T-88 (ALAN LYSCARS)
41. 10:59 PM - Re: T-88 (Mark Roberts)
42. 11:10 PM - Re: T-88 (Clif Dawson)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Fuselage length |
fair enough. I do not have their building manual, only an old set of
plans. Even this number, though, does not give the CG range, and it is
not clear whether their number is arrived at from actual engineering
calculations based on the airfoil or just from experience. I would
guess the latter. I think Jack McCarthy posted a long, detailed cg
calculation on here long ago and gave a cg range from CAM 18. It should
be easy to find. Also, I will try to get out my CAM and look it up.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Ryan Mueller<mailto:rmueller23@gmail.com>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 11:04 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage length
Gene,
Actually, we do have one published CG limit; in the "Notes" section in
the manual from the Pietenpol family, item 17 (wing struts). The text
states that "not under any condition should this airplane be flown with
the CG more than 20" from the leading edge" (there's your 33%).
Ryan
On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 8:45 PM, Gene Rambo
<generambo@msn.com<mailto:generambo@msn.com>> wrote:
Guys, forget about the datum. You can make the datum anything you
want it to be, and it does not matter. If you want to use all positive
numbers, not negative, make it the tip of your spinner.
Don't even specify a datum and weigh the airplane. You can
calculate the CG as being XX inches aft of the center of the main
wheels. (if it is forward, you have a REAL problem) What you then need
to calculate is where the CG lands on the wing (so you compare the
location of the wing to the CG you just located). This is why most use
the leading edge of the wing as a datum, to make this calculation
easier.
Then, express the location of the CG as a % of the chord. Say you
find it is 33% of chord. This is meaningless unless you have published
numbers for the CG limits for your specific airfoil which, for the
Pietenpol is, surprise, unknown. CAM 18 (who remembers this??) gives
the old-time rule of thumb for guessing at a reasonable CG range. Jack
stated it correctly, and I don't have it in front of me, but if it is
roughly around 33%, give or take a few inches, you are probably all
right.
This has become way harder than it should be.
BTW, everything Jack said is correct.
Gene
(ducking for cover)
----- Original Message -----
From: Will42<mailto:will@cctc.net>
To:
pietenpol-list@matronics.com<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 8:07 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage length
<will@cctc.net<mailto:will@cctc.net>>
conceptmodels(at)tds.net<http://tds.net/> wrote:
> Doesn't moving the wing back move the CG forward relative to the
> leading edge?
> Moving the wing back creates a longer nose moment.
> On Jul 1, 2009, at 5:09 PM, Jack Phillips wrote:
>
>
> --
I don't know about the "relative to the leading edge" bit, but if
you look at a weight and balance work sheet, you will see that any
weight aft of the datum line is a + and any weight forward is a -;
likewise, any weight moved aft adds to the + and any weight moved
forward adds to the -; assuming that the wing has weight, and surely it
does, then it stands to reason that moving the weight of the wing aft
moves the CG aft by a relative amount. Moving the wing aft will lighten
the tail in flight no doubt, but CG is figured on the ground and level.
Moving the wing back does not necessarily lengthen the nose
moment; it depends on where the datum line is.
Will
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=251237#251237<http://forums
.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=251237#251237>
http://www.matnbsp<http://www.matnbsp/>; via the Web
title=http://forums.matronics.com/<http://forums.matronics.com/>
href="http://forums.matronics.com<http://forums.matronics.com/>">http:/
/forums.matronics.com<http://forums.matronics.com/>
_p; generous bsp;
title=http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/co
ntribution>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/co
ntribution>">http://www.matronics.com/c============
=====<http://www.matronics.com/c===========
======>
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target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List<http:
//www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
a>http://forums.matronics.com<http://forums.matronics.com/>
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/co
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on>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Keeping the C.G. from getting to far aft |
You seem to have a fairly good understanding of the weight and balance issue and
I agree with you on everything you said except one.........." we can't just
figure where the C.G. is according to the fuselage and gear or weighing points."
This is, in fact, the ONLY accepted way ( according to FAA publication, EA-AC
65-9A, chapter 3), one can determine the actual CG.
Will [/quote]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=251290#251290
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| Subject: | Re: Keeping the C.G. from getting to far aft |
Will,
That's right, weighing the airplane at certain points while it is level is the
only accepted method of finding the C.G. Using the arms for the gear, finding
a datum point, etc., are all required to do this. And as far as I know it is
the only way. But we need to know exactly where the wing is because that determines
our C.G. range. We really don't care where it falls on the fuselage as
long as it falls within the % of chord that we need it to fall into.
I really didn't mean to ruffle feathers and get something started, I just wanted
to try to share some information. Hopefully our discussions helped someone
understand this a little better.
Does anyone know when it will stop raining in NE Ohio? I was planning on flying
this morning!
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=251293#251293
Message 4
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More beating a dead horse...............
-
If you have built your very own Pietenpol and have located your LG where yo
u think it should be, doesn't moving your wing aft to aquire the correct Co
fG put a lot more weight on the tailwheel? Remember that yu're moving the c
enter of mass aft in relation to the LG. It-might be a factor in how tigh
t a turn you could make taxiing and how much strain you put on your back wh
en lifting the tail to turn the plane around as well as how soon the tail c
omes up on T.O.. Seems like the old guys said that an empty Air Camper shou
ld balance on it's mains when the tail is lifted-with the longerons level
..
-
Nice explaination on CG, Don!
-
WOWEE!!! 21 days to go!
-
Larry- xcg, xcmr, epp=0A=0A=0A
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Keeping the C.G. from getting to far aft |
Don; you now have it exactly right. And you didn't ruffle any feathers here.
Will
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=251297#251297
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Keeping the C.G. from getting to far aft |
For anyone that is still confused about W&B after all these discussions I
would highly recommend Bill Rewey's Piet building hints (he probably will be
selling them at Broadhead for $10 I think). The one on W&B is the simplest
and best explanation I have seen and has been flight proven on many Piets.
rick
On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 9:04 PM, Don Emch <EmchAir@aol.com> wrote:
>
> I did a very thorough weight and balance on my airplane. I suggest that
> anyone who does their weight and balance fully understand it before they
> tackle it. I've seen guys on the list try to get a weight and balance
> spread sheet from others who have done theirs so they can plug numbers in.
> Not a good idea on my part. Actually leveling the airplane and weighing at
> measured points (usually landing gear) then finding locations for each arm.
> Then creating your own work sheet is important. Many use arms like the
> center of the seats for passenger and pilot. Not an accurate or good idea.
> Much more accurate to actually weigh the airplane with yourself or a person
> while positioned on the seat and do the math to figure where the arm is
>
> The wing or wing chord itself does not determine the C.G. However if the
> C.G. is behind the C.L. you are going to have serious problem. Therefore
> since the C.L. is determined as a % of the chord we typically use the chord
> as a reference to determine the % for the C.G. Since Pietenpol wings are
> seldom positioned in the same place on each and every one we can't just
> figure where the C.G. is according to the fuselage and gear or weighing
> points. So in the Pietenpol's case it is very important to know where the
> wing is. Knowing what % of the chord that the C.G. of the airplane is, is
> extremely important.
>
> I usually don't pipe up about too many things but a good understanding of
> weight and balance is very important. I apologize for not being able to
> explain all that well but as long as you yourself have a good understanding
> of it is all that matters.
>
> Don Emch
> NX899DE
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=251257#251257
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
Message 7
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Hi Larry,
You are exactly right. When I first built my Piet, I did the weighing and
found my CG. Weight on the tailwheel (empty, in 3-pt position) was a nice
light 20 lbs. But the CG was too far aft with respect to the wing cord and
I moved the wing another 2-1/2" aft, putting the CG well within the
acceptable range as a percentage of wing cord, but now the weight on the
tailwheel in the 3 pt position was nearly 30 lbs. With the top longerons
level, the plane will nearly balance. Weight on the tailwheel (empty) with
the longerons level is only a couple of pounds.
Not that this means anything, since with my 200 lb bulk on board, the weight
on the tailwheel is substantial. The extra 5-10 lbs that moving the wing
aft put on the tailwheel is not noticeable compared to the punishment my fat
butt gives it.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Anxiously awaiting passage of the next 19 days so we can get to Brodhead
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lawrence
Williams
Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 9:18 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wt/Bal
More beating a dead horse...............
If you have built your very own Pietenpol and have located your LG where you
think it should be, doesn't moving your wing aft to aquire the correct CofG
put a lot more weight on the tailwheel? Remember that yu're moving the
center of mass aft in relation to the LG. It might be a factor in how tight
a turn you could make taxiing and how much strain you put on your back when
lifting the tail to turn the plane around as well as how soon the tail comes
up on T.O.. Seems like the old guys said that an empty Air Camper should
balance on it's mains when the tail is lifted with the longerons level.
Nice explaination on CG, Don!
WOWEE!!! 21 days to go!
Larry xcg, xcmr, epp
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 27 Msgs - 07/02/09 |
I won't be at Brodhead this year, no matter how much I'd like to be. My buddy
Ron and I had planned on attending the Blessed Brodhead Event this year, as in
2006 and 2008, but my wife's health is not that great right now. We can't risk
it getting worse or her being unattended while I am 1300 miles away. I will
miss seeing you all, and we hope to be there next year.
On a more positive note, at the very time of the Brodhead fly-in, I will likely
see Corky and Oscar in Austin, TX, and help move some aircraft stuff into the
back of Corky's Buick. As you may have noted, Corky is starting his third Pietenpol.
Some "old Pieter"!
And it seems that my bud Ron is going to come down here at that same time. We
will sit on my deck, drinking Leinenkugels, smelling brats sizzling on the grill,
and pretend we are in Wisconsin. First I'll have to water the grass a lot
and put some mist in the air, too. We haven't decided whether to wear flying
helmets and mount a fan with a playing card attached-- airplane noises. Nor
whether to stand in a line to wait for a shower. We do know that neither a tent
nor mosquitoes will be involved, and that all things being equal, we'd rather
be with you in green Wisconsin and hear a Piet putt over at very first light
(Don Emch?).
Tim in central TX
do not archive
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 27 Msgs - 07/02/09 |
We'll miss you Tim. I was looking forward to sitting and talking with you
again, like we did last year.
I've said a prayer for your wife, and hope she recovers swiftly and
completely.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Willis
Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 11:36 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 27 Msgs - 07/02/09
<timothywillis@earthlink.net>
I won't be at Brodhead this year, no matter how much I'd like to be. My
buddy Ron and I had planned on attending the Blessed Brodhead Event this
year, as in 2006 and 2008, but my wife's health is not that great right now.
We can't risk it getting worse or her being unattended while I am 1300 miles
away. I will miss seeing you all, and we hope to be there next year.
On a more positive note, at the very time of the Brodhead fly-in, I will
likely see Corky and Oscar in Austin, TX, and help move some aircraft stuff
into the back of Corky's Buick. As you may have noted, Corky is starting
his third Pietenpol. Some "old Pieter"!
And it seems that my bud Ron is going to come down here at that same time.
We will sit on my deck, drinking Leinenkugels, smelling brats sizzling on
the grill, and pretend we are in Wisconsin. First I'll have to water the
grass a lot and put some mist in the air, too. We haven't decided whether
to wear flying helmets and mount a fan with a playing card attached--
airplane noises. Nor whether to stand in a line to wait for a shower. We
do know that neither a tent nor mosquitoes will be involved, and that all
things being equal, we'd rather be with you in green Wisconsin and hear a
Piet putt over at very first light (Don Emch?).
Tim in central TX
do not archive
Message 10
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Pieters,
I'm not very sharp, Pietering or computering. What I need is a bit of help
to get to the archive or somewhere to find as much info on the Riblet
airfoil. As an old Louisiana politician used to ask while running for governor,
" won't ya hep me".
Corky in real hot Louisiana but the tomatoes are abundant and delicious.
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
steps!
JulystepsfooterNO62)
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Keeping the C.G. from getting to far aft |
And for those of us unfortunate souls unable to attend the event, does Bill
Rewey have a website to order his building hints? I am WAYS off from the W&B
(need to glue 2 stricks together first :o) but I am a sponge right now for
learning stuff...
On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 8:21 AM, Rick Holland <at7000ft@gmail.com> wrote:
> For anyone that is still confused about W&B after all these discussions I
> would highly recommend Bill Rewey's Piet building hints (he probably will be
> selling them at Broadhead for $10 I think). The one on W&B is the simplest
> and best explanation I have seen and has been flight proven on many Piets.
>
> rick
>
> On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 9:04 PM, Don Emch <EmchAir@aol.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> I did a very thorough weight and balance on my airplane. I suggest that
>> anyone who does their weight and balance fully understand it before they
>> tackle it. I've seen guys on the list try to get a weight and balance
>> spread sheet from others who have done theirs so they can plug numbers in.
>> Not a good idea on my part. Actually leveling the airplane and weighing at
>> measured points (usually landing gear) then finding locations for each arm.
>> Then creating your own work sheet is important. Many use arms like the
>> center of the seats for passenger and pilot. Not an accurate or good idea.
>> Much more accurate to actually weigh the airplane with yourself or a person
>> while positioned on the seat and do the math to figure where the arm is
>>
>> The wing or wing chord itself does not determine the C.G. However if the
>> C.G. is behind the C.L. you are going to have serious problem. Therefore
>> since the C.L. is determined as a % of the chord we typically use the chord
>> as a reference to determine the % for the C.G. Since Pietenpol wings are
>> seldom positioned in the same place on each and every one we can't just
>> figure where the C.G. is according to the fuselage and gear or weighing
>> points. So in the Pietenpol's case it is very important to know where the
>> wing is. Knowing what % of the chord that the C.G. of the airplane is, is
>> extremely important.
>>
>> I usually don't pipe up about too many things but a good understanding of
>> weight and balance is very important. I apologize for not being able to
>> explain all that well but as long as you yourself have a good understanding
>> of it is all that matters.
>>
>> Don Emch
>> NX899DE
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=251257#251257
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ==========
>> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> ==========
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> le, List Admin.
>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Rick Holland
> Castle Rock, Colorado
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: ALittle Help |
Corky,
Member of the Long clan or someone else?
Do not Archive
Kip G. in real cool OH, where the tomatoes are still a gleam in an
old gardener's eyes.
On Jul 3, 2009, at 12:24 PM, Isablcorky@aol.com wrote:
> Pieters,
>
> I'm not very sharp, Pietering or computering. What I need is a bit
> of help to get to the archive or somewhere to find as much info on
> the Riblet airfoil. As an old Louisiana politician used to ask
> while running for governor, " won't ya hep me".
>
> Corky in real hot Louisiana but the tomatoes are abundant and
> delicious.
>
> A Good Credit Score is 70001462804/aol?redir=http://
> www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%
> 26bcd=JulystepsfooterNO62>See yours in just 2 easy steps!
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 27 Msgs - 07/02/09 |
Thank you, Jack, for the good thoughts and prayers. I'll miss seeing you as well,
and getting to know you better.
If I bust my ass building, I could fly to WI next year in my Piet.
Tim
-----Original Message-----
>From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
>Sent: Jul 3, 2009 11:09 AM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 27 Msgs - 07/02/09
>
>
>We'll miss you Tim. I was looking forward to sitting and talking with you
>again, like we did last year.
>
>I've said a prayer for your wife, and hope she recovers swiftly and
>completely.
>
>Jack Phillips
>NX899JP
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Willis
>Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 11:36 AM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 27 Msgs - 07/02/09
>
><timothywillis@earthlink.net>
>
>
>I won't be at Brodhead this year, no matter how much I'd like to be. My
>buddy Ron and I had planned on attending the Blessed Brodhead Event this
>year, as in 2006 and 2008, but my wife's health is not that great right now.
>We can't risk it getting worse or her being unattended while I am 1300 miles
>away. I will miss seeing you all, and we hope to be there next year.
>
>On a more positive note, at the very time of the Brodhead fly-in, I will
>likely see Corky and Oscar in Austin, TX, and help move some aircraft stuff
>into the back of Corky's Buick. As you may have noted, Corky is starting
>his third Pietenpol. Some "old Pieter"!
>
>And it seems that my bud Ron is going to come down here at that same time.
>We will sit on my deck, drinking Leinenkugels, smelling brats sizzling on
>the grill, and pretend we are in Wisconsin. First I'll have to water the
>grass a lot and put some mist in the air, too. We haven't decided whether
>to wear flying helmets and mount a fan with a playing card attached--
>airplane noises. Nor whether to stand in a line to wait for a shower. We
>do know that neither a tent nor mosquitoes will be involved, and that all
>things being equal, we'd rather be with you in green Wisconsin and hear a
>Piet putt over at very first light (Don Emch?).
>
>Tim in central TX
>do not archive
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 27 Msgs - 07/02/09 |
But you won't be able to sit down...
get it? ... bust your ... oh, never mind...
BC
DO NOT ARCHIVE
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim
Willis
Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 1:00 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 27 Msgs -
07/02/09
--> <timothywillis@earthlink.net>
Thank you, Jack, for the good thoughts and prayers. I'll miss seeing
you as well, and getting to know you better.
If I bust my ass building, I could fly to WI next year in my Piet.
Tim
Message 15
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40 psi is pretty good for the corvair.- After our oil wams up to about 20
0 our cruise power gives us about 37psi.- At idle and warm oil we get abo
ut 20psi.- Our oil temp probe is in the bottom of the pan.
-
Shad=0A=0A=0A
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 27 Msgs - 07/02/09 |
But Tim: My understanding of the Piet is that it is not the most comfortable
plane to sit in for an extended period of time with a busted ass... please
consider breaking some other part of your body to get the job done :o)
Mark in Clovis
Plan arrived, wing to begin next week
On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 10:00 AM, Tim Willis <timothywillis@earthlink.net>wrote:
> timothywillis@earthlink.net>
>
> Thank you, Jack, for the good thoughts and prayers. I'll miss seeing you
> as well, and getting to know you better.
>
> If I bust my ass building, I could fly to WI next year in my Piet.
>
> Tim
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
> >Sent: Jul 3, 2009 11:09 AM
> >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> >Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 27 Msgs - 07/02/09
> >
> pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
> >
> >We'll miss you Tim. I was looking forward to sitting and talking with you
> >again, like we did last year.
> >
> >I've said a prayer for your wife, and hope she recovers swiftly and
> >completely.
> >
> >Jack Phillips
> >NX899JP
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> >[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim
> Willis
> >Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 11:36 AM
> >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 27 Msgs - 07/02/09
> >
> ><timothywillis@earthlink.net>
> >
> >
> >I won't be at Brodhead this year, no matter how much I'd like to be. My
> >buddy Ron and I had planned on attending the Blessed Brodhead Event this
> >year, as in 2006 and 2008, but my wife's health is not that great right
> now.
> >We can't risk it getting worse or her being unattended while I am 1300
> miles
> >away. I will miss seeing you all, and we hope to be there next year.
> >
> >On a more positive note, at the very time of the Brodhead fly-in, I will
> >likely see Corky and Oscar in Austin, TX, and help move some aircraft
> stuff
> >into the back of Corky's Buick. As you may have noted, Corky is starting
> >his third Pietenpol. Some "old Pieter"!
> >
> >And it seems that my bud Ron is going to come down here at that same time.
> >We will sit on my deck, drinking Leinenkugels, smelling brats sizzling on
> >the grill, and pretend we are in Wisconsin. First I'll have to water the
> >grass a lot and put some mist in the air, too. We haven't decided whether
> >to wear flying helmets and mount a fan with a playing card attached--
> >airplane noises. Nor whether to stand in a line to wait for a shower. We
> >do know that neither a tent nor mosquitoes will be involved, and that all
> >things being equal, we'd rather be with you in green Wisconsin and hear a
> >Piet putt over at very first light (Don Emch?).
> >
> >Tim in central TX
> >do not archive
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 17
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Is T-88 something that I could find locally with some research or is it a
specialty glue that needs mail order? I have wood arriving soon, AND a jig-
more on that when I get the first rib plopped out- (man life is GOOD) so I
don't want to wait for the UPS guy if I can get it locally. Not sure where
to look as Big Box hardware won't have it I'm sure...
Mark
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 27 Msgs - 07/02/09 |
Well Bill, we think alike!
On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 10:16 AM, Bill Church <eng@canadianrogers.com> wrote:
> eng@canadianrogers.com>
>
>
> But you won't be able to sit down...
>
> get it? ... bust your ... oh, never mind...
>
> BC
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim
> Willis
> Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 1:00 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 27 Msgs -
> 07/02/09
>
> --> <timothywillis@earthlink.net>
>
> Thank you, Jack, for the good thoughts and prayers. I'll miss seeing
> you as well, and getting to know you better.
>
> If I bust my ass building, I could fly to WI next year in my Piet.
>
> Tim
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 27 Msgs - 07/02/09 |
I see 'do not archive' on a few of ya'lls posts. Is that something i
overlooked in the rules section that prevents non-substantive chatter from
getting achieved? I do my fair share of blubbering on that might not be
constructive to the archives...
On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 10:23 AM, Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1@gmail.com> wrote:
> Well Bill, we think alike!
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 10:16 AM, Bill Church <eng@canadianrogers.com>wrote:
>
>> eng@canadianrogers.com>
>>
>>
>>
>> But you won't be able to sit down...
>>
>> get it? ... bust your ... oh, never mind...
>>
>> BC
>>
>> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim
>> Willis
>> Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 1:00 PM
>> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 27 Msgs -
>> 07/02/09
>>
>> --> <timothywillis@earthlink.net>
>>
>> Thank you, Jack, for the good thoughts and prayers. I'll miss seeing
>> you as well, and getting to know you better.
>>
>> If I bust my ass building, I could fly to WI next year in my Piet.
>>
>> Tim
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
Message 20
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Hi Corky
Click on the link below to get to the archives.
http://www.matronics.com/searching/ws_script_short.cgi
Select Pietenpol in the "Select Archive" box
For the "Output Method" - keep things simple and click the 3rd option (All
Msgs=2C No Index)
In the "Search String" box type the word riblett
If this doesn't work for you holler again
Rod
From: Isablcorky@aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: ALittle Help
Pieters=2C
I'm not very sharp=2C Pietering or computering. What I need is a bit of hel
p to get to the archive or somewhere to find as much info on the Riblet air
foil. As an old Louisiana politician used to ask while running for governor
=2C " won't ya hep me".
Corky in real hot Louisiana but the tomatoes are abundant and delicious.
A Good Credit Score is 70001462804/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.
com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=JulystepsfooterNO62>S
ee yours in just 2 easy steps!
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail=AE has ever-growing storage! Don=92t worry about storage limits.
http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tuto
rial_Storage_062009
Message 21
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Aircraft Spruce is where I get mine and it cost $48 per quart.
RS
Rob Stapleton, Photojournalist
Anchorage, AK
(907) 230-9425
KL2AN
Skype:rob.stapleton.jr
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark
Roberts
Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 9:22 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: T-88
Is T-88 something that I could find locally with some research or is it
a specialty glue that needs mail order? I have wood arriving soon, AND a
jig- more on that when I get the first rib plopped out- (man life is
GOOD) so I don't want to wait for the UPS guy if I can get it locally.
Not sure where to look as Big Box hardware won't have it I'm sure...
Mark
Message 22
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Yep, AS&S is where I got mine. Currently $37.85 a quart. Good stuff.
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=251342#251342
Message 23
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Mark,
I got mine from Aircraft Spruce but have also found it locally at
Rockler's. I think if you have any woodworking specialty stores in your
area they will have it.
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Roberts
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 12:22 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: T-88
Is T-88 something that I could find locally with some research or is
it a specialty glue that needs mail order? I have wood arriving soon,
AND a jig- more on that when I get the first rib plopped out- (man life
is GOOD) so I don't want to wait for the UPS guy if I can get it
locally. Not sure where to look as Big Box hardware won't have it I'm
sure...
Mark
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Keeping the C.G. from getting to far aft |
Mark , I understand Bill does not have website. His phone is
608-833-5839. Address is 3339 Mound view Rd., Verona Wisc. 53593--Jim
Lagowski
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Roberts
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 12:36 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Keeping the C.G. from getting to far
aft
And for those of us unfortunate souls unable to attend the event, does
Bill Rewey have a website to order his building hints? I am WAYS off
from the W&B (need to glue 2 stricks together first :o) but I am a
sponge right now for learning stuff...
On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 8:21 AM, Rick Holland <at7000ft@gmail.com>
wrote:
For anyone that is still confused about W&B after all these
discussions I would highly recommend Bill Rewey's Piet building hints
(he probably will be selling them at Broadhead for $10 I think). The one
on W&B is the simplest and best explanation I have seen and has been
flight proven on many Piets.
rick
On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 9:04 PM, Don Emch <EmchAir@aol.com> wrote:
I did a very thorough weight and balance on my airplane. I
suggest that anyone who does their weight and balance fully understand
it before they tackle it. I've seen guys on the list try to get a
weight and balance spread sheet from others who have done theirs so they
can plug numbers in. Not a good idea on my part. Actually leveling the
airplane and weighing at measured points (usually landing gear) then
finding locations for each arm. Then creating your own work sheet is
important. Many use arms like the center of the seats for passenger and
pilot. Not an accurate or good idea. Much more accurate to actually
weigh the airplane with yourself or a person while positioned on the
seat and do the math to figure where the arm is
The wing or wing chord itself does not determine the C.G. However
if the C.G. is behind the C.L. you are going to have serious problem.
Therefore since the C.L. is determined as a % of the chord we typically
use the chord as a reference to determine the % for the C.G. Since
Pietenpol wings are seldom positioned in the same place on each and
every one we can't just figure where the C.G. is according to the
fuselage and gear or weighing points. So in the Pietenpol's case it is
very important to know where the wing is. Knowing what % of the chord
that the C.G. of the airplane is, is extremely important.
I usually don't pipe up about too many things but a good
understanding of weight and balance is very important. I apologize for
not being able to explain all that well but as long as you yourself have
a good understanding of it is all that matters.
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=251257#251257
==========
st"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
==========
http://forums.matronics.com
==========
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
a>http://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
07/03/09 05:53:00
Message 25
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It is a specialty glue available from Aircraft Spruce or Wicks--Jim L.
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Roberts
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 1:22 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: T-88
Is T-88 something that I could find locally with some research or is
it a specialty glue that needs mail order? I have wood arriving soon,
AND a jig- more on that when I get the first rib plopped out- (man life
is GOOD) so I don't want to wait for the UPS guy if I can get it
locally. Not sure where to look as Big Box hardware won't have it I'm
sure...
Mark
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
07/03/09 05:53:00
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: ALittle Help |
Corky,
That particular link in might render the search engine unusable for you.
Here is the correct address:
http://www.matronics.com/search/
Otherwise about the same. Select Pietenpol from the dropdown menu; I
personally prefer the "3 frame, index" output method. This will give a you
a
list of subject lines of all pertinent messages, a pane below that where
they will be displayed. If you search for "riblett" you should get about 22
7
or so messages containing that word. Remember, two t's in riblett. :)
Ryan
On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 12:33 PM, Rod Young <montanarod@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Corky
> Click on the link below to get to the archives.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/searching/ws_script_short.cgi
>
> Select Pietenpol in the "Select Archive" box
> For the "Output Method" - keep things simple and click the 3rd option (A
ll
> Msgs, No Index)
> In the "Search String" box type the word riblett
>
> If this doesn't work for you holler again
>
>
> *Rod*
>
>
> ------------------------------
> From: Isablcorky@aol.com
> Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 12:24:28 -0400
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: ALittle Help
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>
> Pieters,
>
> I'm not very sharp, Pietering or computering. What I need is a bit of hel
p
> to get to the archive or somewhere to find as much info on the Riblet
> airfoil. As an old Louisiana politician used to ask while running for
> governor, " won't ya hep me".
>
> Corky in real hot Louisiana but the tomatoes are abundant and delicious.
>
> ------------------------------
> *A Good Credit Score is 70001462804/aol?redir
> http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62
%26bcd=JulystepsfooterNO62>See
> yours in just 2 easy steps!*
>
> *
>
> st">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listronics.comww.matroni
cs.com/contribution
> *
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Hotmail=AE has ever-growing storage! Don=92t worry about storage limits.
Check
> it out.<http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_
WL_HM_Tutorial_Storage_062009>
>
> *
>
===========
w.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
===========
===========
com/contribution
===========
> *
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Keeping the C.G. from getting to far aft |
Mark,
Bill's info packet is available from him for $20. You should also get a CD
with an audio recording of one of his past Oshkosh forums. Just send payment
and a note to the address Jim listed. Definitely worth the $.
Ryan
On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 1:29 PM, Lagowski Morrow <jimdeb@charter.net> wrote:
> Mark , I understand Bill does not have website. His phone is
> 608-833-5839. Address is 3339 Mound view Rd., Verona Wisc. 53593--Jim
> Lagowski
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1@gmail.com>
> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Friday, July 03, 2009 12:36 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Keeping the C.G. from getting to far
> aft
>
> And for those of us unfortunate souls unable to attend the event, does Bill
> Rewey have a website to order his building hints? I am WAYS off from the W&B
> (need to glue 2 stricks together first :o) but I am a sponge right now for
> learning stuff...
>
> On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 8:21 AM, Rick Holland <at7000ft@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> For anyone that is still confused about W&B after all these discussions I
>> would highly recommend Bill Rewey's Piet building hints (he probably will be
>> selling them at Broadhead for $10 I think). The one on W&B is the simplest
>> and best explanation I have seen and has been flight proven on many Piets.
>>
>> rick
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 9:04 PM, Don Emch <EmchAir@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I did a very thorough weight and balance on my airplane. I suggest that
>>> anyone who does their weight and balance fully understand it before they
>>> tackle it. I've seen guys on the list try to get a weight and balance
>>> spread sheet from others who have done theirs so they can plug numbers in.
>>> Not a good idea on my part. Actually leveling the airplane and weighing at
>>> measured points (usually landing gear) then finding locations for each arm.
>>> Then creating your own work sheet is important. Many use arms like the
>>> center of the seats for passenger and pilot. Not an accurate or good idea.
>>> Much more accurate to actually weigh the airplane with yourself or a person
>>> while positioned on the seat and do the math to figure where the arm is
>>>
>>> The wing or wing chord itself does not determine the C.G. However if the
>>> C.G. is behind the C.L. you are going to have serious problem. Therefore
>>> since the C.L. is determined as a % of the chord we typically use the chord
>>> as a reference to determine the % for the C.G. Since Pietenpol wings are
>>> seldom positioned in the same place on each and every one we can't just
>>> figure where the C.G. is according to the fuselage and gear or weighing
>>> points. So in the Pietenpol's case it is very important to know where the
>>> wing is. Knowing what % of the chord that the C.G. of the airplane is, is
>>> extremely important.
>>>
>>> I usually don't pipe up about too many things but a good understanding of
>>> weight and balance is very important. I apologize for not being able to
>>> explain all that well but as long as you yourself have a good understanding
>>> of it is all that matters.
>>>
>>> Don Emch
>>> NX899DE
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=251257#251257
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ==========
>>> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>>> ==========
>>> http://forums.matronics.com
>>> ==========
>>> le, List Admin.
>>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>> ==========
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Rick Holland
>> Castle Rock, Colorado
>>
>> *
>>
>> " target="_blank"> <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> a> <http://forums.matronics.com>http://forums.matronics.com
>> _blank"> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> *
>>
>>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c*
>
> ------------------------------
> - Release Date: 07/03/09 05:53:00
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 28
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Larry and Jack,
I think my tail weighs somewhere around 8-10 lbs. with the plane level with a full
tank. If I lift the tail about a foot higher I need to hang on tight because
it will keep on going till the nose hits the ground if I would let go. Anyway,
I've often wondered if I would have made the cabanes straight and lengthened
the engine mount instead of moving the wing back if it would actually be
too light on the tail and want to tip forward. Anyway, I'm glad I didn't mess
with that stuff and moved the wing.
I'm counting the days too!
Don
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=251355#251355
Message 29
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OK, I'm a Piet wannbe builder. I went over to check out Jack's bird a
couple of weekends ago. Quite the contrast with his Piet sitting on the
apron and his buddy's Lancair with the all glass cockpit next door.
Now for the monkey wrench in the cogs. *When shifting the wing*, there wil
l
be a more noticeable shift of CG if the aircraft has a wing tank as opposed
to one with the fuselage tank, especially when full. Now, let's complicate
things further. The plane with the wing tank will notice hardly any trim
change when burning off fuel due to it's (the fuel) CG being so closely
located to the CL. The fuse tank on the other hand will make a much more
noticeable trim (CG) change as it burns off. This is why it's SO important
to work out the most fwd and most aft CG loadings when you finish your
weight and balance.
Since the airfoil is one that Bernard came up with the TLAR engineering
approach (so I've read) and there is no definitive CL location
it makes for an interesting exercise to determine where the CG/CL
relationship should fall. Fortunately there are sufficient examples flying
in all sorts of configurations that we know about where the comfortable CG
range is. Not to mention, the configuration of the airplane lends itself t
o
pretty stable flight.
Keep in mind also, the long fuse version, while tending to being tail heavy
,
will have a longer arm for the elevator to react on to lift the tail. See,
there's not much set in stone on this airplane. But, the man that designed
it did so in a logical fashion so that it is versatile and functional at th
e
same time. We need more people like Mr. Pietenpol today.
On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 11:33 AM, Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>wrot
e:
> Hi Larry,
>
>
> You are exactly right. When I first built my Piet, I did the weighing an
d
> found my CG. Weight on the tailwheel (empty, in 3-pt position) was a nic
e
> light 20 lbs. But the CG was too far aft with respect to the wing cord a
nd
> I moved the wing another 2-1/2=94 aft, putting the CG well within the
> acceptable range as a percentage of wing cord, but now the weight on the
> tailwheel in the 3 pt position was nearly 30 lbs. With the top longerons
> level, the plane will nearly balance. Weight on the tailwheel (empty) wi
th
> the longerons level is only a couple of pounds.
>
>
> Not that this means anything, since with my 200 lb bulk on board, the
> weight on the tailwheel is substantial. The extra 5-10 lbs that moving t
he
> wing aft put on the tailwheel is not noticeable compared to the punishmen
t
> my fat butt gives it.
>
>
> Jack Phillips
>
> NX899JP
>
> Anxiously awaiting passage of the next 19 days so we can get to Brodhead
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Lawrence
> Williams
> *Sent:* Friday, July 03, 2009 9:18 AM
> *To:* Pietlist
> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Wt/Bal
>
>
> More beating a dead horse...............
>
>
> If you have built your very own Pietenpol and have located your LG where
> you think it should be, doesn't moving your wing aft to aquire the correc
t
> CofG put a lot more weight on the tailwheel? Remember that yu're moving t
he
> center of mass aft in relation to the LG. It might be a factor in how tig
ht
> a turn you could make taxiing and how much strain you put on your back wh
en
> lifting the tail to turn the plane around as well as how soon the tail co
mes
> up on T.O.. Seems like the old guys said that an empty Air Camper should
> balance on it's mains when the tail is lifted with the longerons level.
>
>
> Nice explaination on CG, Don!
>
>
> WOWEE!!! 21 days to go!
>
>
> Larry xcg, xcmr, epp
>
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> * *
>
> *
>
===========
w.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
===========
===========
com/contribution
===========
> *
>
>
--
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists o
r
not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy." --British
publisher and writer Ernest Benn (1875-1954)
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 27 Msgs - 07/02/09 |
Tim, Sorry to hear your wife is not feeling well,- I wish her a speedy re
covery.- Also sorry to hear you can't make Brodhead this year.- The ste
ak dinner last year was great, and the advise you have given me the past fe
w months for the power company-has been a great help.- You Texans are O
K in my book, even if I am a Damn Yankee.- Hope to see you flying that Pi
et soon, Infact I also hope to get my airplane done soon, hopefully 2 years
or so.
-
Shad=0A=0A=0A
Message 31
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Don,
A couple of weeks ago I had my wife helping me as I bled the brakes on the
Pietenpol. Because I was stupid and installed the master cylinders in such
a way that any air bubbles have to travel downhill to make it through the
master cylinder, the easiest way to bleed the brakes is to raise the tail as
high as possible and work the bubbles out. Karen had a heck of a time
hanging onto the tailwheel with her arms stretched as high over her head as
she could. We had to go through the procedure about 6 times to finally get
all the bubbles out, and she was not very happy. I wish I had a picture of
it.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Emch
Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 3:46 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wt/Bal
Larry and Jack,
I think my tail weighs somewhere around 8-10 lbs. with the plane level with
a full tank. If I lift the tail about a foot higher I need to hang on tight
because it will keep on going till the nose hits the ground if I would let
go. Anyway, I've often wondered if I would have made the cabanes straight
and lengthened the engine mount instead of moving the wing back if it would
actually be too light on the tail and want to tip forward. Anyway, I'm glad
I didn't mess with that stuff and moved the wing.
I'm counting the days too!
Don
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Message 32
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In Australia he was probably using imperial gallons about 20% more than US
gallons. This same engine is in the current range rovers and discovery veh
icles today if interested
Steve in Maine
> Date: Fri=2C 3 Jul 2009 10:07:22 +1200
> From: zk-owl@clear.net.nz
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: buick v8
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>
nz>
>
> Thanks=2C that answers most of my questions.
> Regards Mike T.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg@earthlink.net>
> To: "pietenpolgroup" <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday=2C July 03=2C 2009 12:57 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: buick v8
>
>
> > <douweblumberg@earthlink.net>
> >
> > Hello all=2C
> >
> > For those who expressed interest in the aluminum buick v-8=2C I just hu
ng up
> > with Steve Cavanagh in Australia who actually built and flew one.
> >
> > He took it right out of the car without even a rebuild=2C the only mod
was
> > an
> > enlarged sump. Kept the standard ignition and starter. Bolted a metal
> > prop
> > from an "aerobatic Cessna 150" right onto the crank. Says the thrust
> > bearing is in the middle of the crank. Remembers max rpm as around 280
0=2C
> > and got 1=2C000meters climb. Had over 300 hrs when he sold it four yea
rs
> > ago=2C
> > he's now 89. Didn't have any trouble. Said it used about 7 gallons pe
r
> > hour and probably weighed 300 lbs. Had a 30 gallon tank to keep it fed
.
> > Said the Piet performed great with the heavy engine. Said he started w
ith
> > standard wings then build longer wings and said it "it didn't make a
> > difference". Estimates 130hp at 2800
> >
> > Sounds pretty interesting except for the fuel consumption!
> >
> > Douwe
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
Message 33
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Hello group!
As for me..... I have moved my landing gear forward (wheels) a couple
inches. Building my cabanes STRAIGHT, and will build a longer
engine mount to get the W&B correct....
I will look for a HEAVY engine! I like the ROTEC Radial!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Don Emch
Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 12:46 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wt/Bal
Larry and Jack,
I think my tail weighs somewhere around 8-10 lbs. with the plane level with
a full tank. If I lift the tail about a foot higher I need to hang on tight
because it will keep on going till the nose hits the ground if I would let
go. Anyway, I've often wondered if I would have made the cabanes straight
and lengthened the engine mount instead of moving the wing back if it would
actually be too light on the tail and want to tip forward. Anyway, I'm glad
I didn't mess with that stuff and moved the wing.
I'm counting the days too!
Don
Read this topic online here:
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| Subject: | Re: Keeping the C.G. from getting to far aft |
The weight and balance is concerning me as I know I have very light tail right
now with the wings off and the engine on.the modified GN-1 I picked up. DJ did
some size changes for his height and I fit pretty good with my long legs.I guess
if I were to build one from scratch I might look into moving the main gear
forward but after completion I'll finally know if it is necessary.I would guess
the main thing if the CG is OK will be to really be careful hitting the brakes.might
even need to do something like the Cessna 140's had moving the wheels
forward but I'm not sure that would be practical with the Cub gear.but I could
probably build new main legs with a forward angle.but that would move wheel
weight forward as well as helping it to be less likely to nose over. maybe it'll
be perfect-I sure hope so.I would rather put the battery under the back seat
or even behind it than angle the cabanes forward or back either one.Raymond
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Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Keeping the C.G. from getting to far aft |
Thanks guys!Will do...
Mark
On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 11:55 AM, Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com> wrote:
> Mark,
>
> Bill's info packet is available from him for $20. You should also get a CD
> with an audio recording of one of his past Oshkosh forums. Just send payment
> and a note to the address Jim listed. Definitely worth the $.
>
> Ryan
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 1:29 PM, Lagowski Morrow <jimdeb@charter.net>wrote:
>
>> Mark , I understand Bill does not have website. His phone is
>> 608-833-5839. Address is 3339 Mound view Rd., Verona Wisc. 53593--Jim
>> Lagowski
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1@gmail.com>
>> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>> *Sent:* Friday, July 03, 2009 12:36 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Keeping the C.G. from getting to far
>> aft
>>
>> And for those of us unfortunate souls unable to attend the event, does
>> Bill Rewey have a website to order his building hints? I am WAYS off from
>> the W&B (need to glue 2 stricks together first :o) but I am a sponge right
>> now for learning stuff...
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 8:21 AM, Rick Holland <at7000ft@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> For anyone that is still confused about W&B after all these discussions I
>>> would highly recommend Bill Rewey's Piet building hints (he probably will be
>>> selling them at Broadhead for $10 I think). The one on W&B is the simplest
>>> and best explanation I have seen and has been flight proven on many Piets.
>>>
>>> rick
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 9:04 PM, Don Emch <EmchAir@aol.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I did a very thorough weight and balance on my airplane. I suggest that
>>>> anyone who does their weight and balance fully understand it before they
>>>> tackle it. I've seen guys on the list try to get a weight and balance
>>>> spread sheet from others who have done theirs so they can plug numbers in.
>>>> Not a good idea on my part. Actually leveling the airplane and weighing
at
>>>> measured points (usually landing gear) then finding locations for each arm.
>>>> Then creating your own work sheet is important. Many use arms like the
>>>> center of the seats for passenger and pilot. Not an accurate or good idea.
>>>> Much more accurate to actually weigh the airplane with yourself or a person
>>>> while positioned on the seat and do the math to figure where the arm is
>>>>
>>>> The wing or wing chord itself does not determine the C.G. However if
>>>> the C.G. is behind the C.L. you are going to have serious problem.
>>>> Therefore since the C.L. is determined as a % of the chord we typically use
>>>> the chord as a reference to determine the % for the C.G. Since Pietenpol
>>>> wings are seldom positioned in the same place on each and every one we can't
>>>> just figure where the C.G. is according to the fuselage and gear or weighing
>>>> points. So in the Pietenpol's case it is very important to know where the
>>>> wing is. Knowing what % of the chord that the C.G. of the airplane is, is
>>>> extremely important.
>>>>
>>>> I usually don't pipe up about too many things but a good understanding
>>>> of weight and balance is very important. I apologize for not being able to
>>>> explain all that well but as long as you yourself have a good understanding
>>>> of it is all that matters.
>>>>
>>>> Don Emch
>>>> NX899DE
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>>
>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=251257#251257
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ==========
>>>> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>>>> ==========
>>>> http://forums.matronics.com
>>>> ==========
>>>> le, List Admin.
>>>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>> ==========
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Rick Holland
>>> Castle Rock, Colorado
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>> " target="_blank"> <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>>> a> <http://forums.matronics.com>http://forums.matronics.com
>>> _blank"> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>> *
>>
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c*
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> - Release Date: 07/03/09 05:53:00
>>
>> *
>>
>> " target="_blank"> <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> a> <http://forums.matronics.com>http://forums.matronics.com
>> _blank"> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> *
>>
>>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
Message 36
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Thanks for the tip-that's what I was hoping for-some real experience numbers. I'm
not too worried. I think the 37 lb. was not running too fast.maybe a thousand-oil
was fairly warm and my probe is in the oil filter housing so most likely
not getting as much heat as it would in the engine.thanks.I haven't changed
it yet but I'm guessing it might be 10/40 or 15/40 weight.no real way of knowing.I
haven't heard from DJ lately.not sure he still has the same E-mail address.but
I'm pressing forward with it.Raymond
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Jack, if you'll be pouring any concrete at the new place, have the truck
driver dump any excess into a bucket with a bent piece of rebar suspended in
it (bent like a Christmas ornament hook, eyelet up). Works great for those
times, mount it on a small dolly and it's easy to move around as well.
On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 4:00 PM, Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>wrote:
> pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
>
> Don,
>
> A couple of weeks ago I had my wife helping me as I bled the brakes on the
> Pietenpol. Because I was stupid and installed the master cylinders in such
> a way that any air bubbles have to travel downhill to make it through the
> master cylinder, the easiest way to bleed the brakes is to raise the tail
> as
> high as possible and work the bubbles out. Karen had a heck of a time
> hanging onto the tailwheel with her arms stretched as high over her head as
> she could. We had to go through the procedure about 6 times to finally get
> all the bubbles out, and she was not very happy. I wish I had a picture of
> it.
>
>
--
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or
not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy." --British
publisher and writer Ernest Benn (1875-1954)
Message 38
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Would someone give me Walt Evans e mail address please, Thanks
Corky
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
steps!
JulystepsfooterNO62)
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: (no subject) |
waltdak@verizon.net
do not archive
On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 9:05 PM, <Isablcorky@aol.com> wrote:
> Would someone give me Walt Evans e mail address please, Thanks
> Corky
>
>
Message 40
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Jamestown Distributors, a boatbuilding supply house in Rhode Island, is
where I buy mine. Closer for fellows in New England. $40/qt kit and
shorter shipping distance/time for me in New Hampshire.
Al
----- Original Message -----
From: Rob Stapleton
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 2:17 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: T-88
Aircraft Spruce is where I get mine and it cost $48 per quart.
RS
Rob Stapleton, Photojournalist
Anchorage, AK
(907) 230-9425
KL2AN
Skype:rob.stapleton.jr
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark
Roberts
Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 9:22 AM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: T-88
Is T-88 something that I could find locally with some research or is
it a specialty glue that needs mail order? I have wood arriving soon,
AND a jig- more on that when I get the first rib plopped out- (man life
is GOOD) so I don't want to wait for the UPS guy if I can get it
locally. Not sure where to look as Big Box hardware won't have it I'm
sure...
Mark
- The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - -->
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List -
MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - --> http://forums.matronics.com -
List Contribution Web Site - Thank you for your generous support!
-Matt Dralle, List Admin. -->
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 41
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I was wondering if there might be any place around here (Fresno CA) that
would have carried it. I'm only about 4 hours North of the West Coast AC
Spruce location, so it would be here in a couple of days, but I thought I
might shop around and was wondering if you guys had ever found it locally in
some specialty wood shops. I saw on the systemthree.com website that there
is a place about a half hour north of me that is suppose to be a
distributor, so I'll check there Monday.
I'll most likely just buy it from ACS and be done.
Thanks for all the feedback!
Mark
On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 10:12 PM, ALAN LYSCARS <alyscars@myfairpoint.net>wrote:
> Jamestown Distributors, a boatbuilding supply house in Rhode Island, is
> where I buy mine. Closer for fellows in New England. $40/qt kit and
> shorter shipping distance/time for me in New Hampshire.
>
> Al
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Rob Stapleton <foto@alaska.net>
> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Friday, July 03, 2009 2:17 PM
> *Subject:* RE: Pietenpol-List: T-88
>
> Aircraft Spruce is where I get mine and it cost $48 per quart.
>
> RS
>
>
> Rob Stapleton, Photojournalist
>
> Anchorage, AK
>
> (907) 230-9425
>
> KL2AN
>
> Skype:rob.stapleton.jr
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Mark Roberts
> *Sent:* Friday, July 03, 2009 9:22 AM
> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: T-88
>
>
> Is T-88 something that I could find locally with some research or is it a
> specialty glue that needs mail order? I have wood arriving soon, AND a jig-
> more on that when I get the first rib plopped out- (man life is GOOD) so I
> don't want to wait for the UPS guy if I can get it locally. Not sure where
> to look as Big Box hardware won't have it I'm sure...
>
>
> Mark
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> * - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> * --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> * - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> * --> http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> * - List Contribution Web Site -*
>
> * Thank you for your generous support!*
>
> * -Matt Dralle, List Admin.*
>
> * --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> **
>
> * *
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
> *
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
Message 42
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If you have a marine supply near, try them.
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Roberts
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 10:22 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: T-88
Is T-88 something that I could find locally with some research or is
it a specialty glue that needs mail order?
Mark
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07/03/09 18:11:00
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