Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:48 AM - building in cramped workshops (Oscar Zuniga)
2. 05:55 AM - Re: Gary Boothe's progress (Bill Church)
3. 07:13 AM - Re: Rib Truss design, ala 1940 (Bill Church)
4. 08:55 AM - Re: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint maybe ? (Bill Church)
5. 09:14 AM - Re: Re: engine stand (Michael Silvius)
6. 09:17 AM - Re: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint maybe ? (TOM STINEMETZE)
7. 09:45 AM - Re: Rib Truss design, ala 1940 (tkreiner)
8. 09:46 AM - MY PANEL (899PM)
9. 09:49 AM - Re: Rib Truss design, ala 1940 (tkreiner)
10. 09:55 AM - Re: Gary Boothe's progress (Jim Markle)
11. 10:20 AM - Re: MY PANEL (Matt Redmond)
12. 10:56 AM - Re: Re: Rib Truss design, ala 1940 (Matt Redmond)
13. 11:55 AM - Re: Re: Rib Truss design, ala 1940 (Tim Willis)
14. 12:09 PM - Traveling to the West Coast (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
15. 12:09 PM - Re: Re: Rib Truss design, ala 1940 (Doug Dever)
16. 12:32 PM - Re: Re: Rib Truss design, ala 1940 (Matt Redmond)
17. 01:22 PM - Re: Re: Rib Truss design, ala 1940 (Doug Dever)
18. 01:44 PM - Re: Re: Rib Truss design, ala 1940 (Matt Redmond)
19. 02:41 PM - Re: Re: Rib Truss design, ala 1940 (Doug Dever)
20. 03:51 PM - Fuselage building for Continental engine (Michael Perez)
21. 05:13 PM - Final version- one-piece-wing stand (helspersew@aol.com)
22. 06:18 PM - Re: Final version- one-piece-wing stand (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
23. 06:28 PM - Re: Final version- one-piece-wing stand (Ed G.)
24. 06:30 PM - Re: Final version- one-piece-wing stand (Doug Dever)
25. 06:44 PM - Re: Final version- one-piece-wing stand (Doug Dever)
26. 06:46 PM - powerplants for the Pietenpol (Ross Alexander)
27. 06:51 PM - Re: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint maybe ? (Robert Ray)
28. 06:54 PM - Re: Fuselage building for Continental engine (Robert Ray)
29. 06:54 PM - Re: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint may... (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
30. 07:12 PM - Re: MY PANEL (K5YAC)
31. 07:14 PM - Re: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint maybe ? (gcardinal)
32. 07:22 PM - Re: Re: Rib Truss design, ala 1940 (Bill Church)
33. 07:23 PM - Re: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint maybe ? (Ryan Mueller)
34. 07:23 PM - Re: Gary Boothe's progress (Gary Boothe)
35. 07:47 PM - Re: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint maybe ? (Robert Ray)
36. 07:54 PM - Re: Gary Boothe's progress (Clif Dawson)
37. 08:05 PM - Re: Rib Truss design, ala 1940 (Pieti Lowell)
38. 08:17 PM - Re: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint maybe ? (Ryan Mueller)
39. 08:45 PM - Re: MY PANEL (Gary Boothe)
40. 08:47 PM - Re: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint maybe ? (Owen Davies)
41. 08:57 PM - Re: Traveling to the West Coast (Gary Boothe)
42. 09:20 PM - Re: Re: Rib Truss design, ala 1940 (Robert Ray)
43. 10:11 PM - Re: Jacks video a copy (jorge lizarraga)
44. 10:25 PM - Re: MY PANEL (Robert Ray)
45. 11:37 PM - Re: Gary Boothe's progress ()
Message 1
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| Subject: | building in cramped workshops |
It is only recently that I've had the luxury of working in
half of a "real" hangar. Up until then, I worked out of
my half of a standard 2-car garage so I know what crowded
means. I had racks overhead for long pieces of material
and stuff stashed under the building table, on pegs on the
wall, and everywhere I could find an available inch of
space. However, there is something to be said for working
in a compact shop- there is very little walking to do when
going to get a tool, because everything is right there by
definition. And the shop is easier to cool in the summer
and heat in the winter. But the best part of all is that
when you do finally roll up the garage door and you get to
move the wing or fuselage out into the light of day, it
is a real great feeling... almost like it is being born.
I drive 18 min. each way from my house to the hangar and
that is really terrific as some of you guys who have to
drive an hour or more know. It's a deterrent to building
or flying when you have to plan ahead for the thing just
because the hangar or shop is so far away. When you
build in your garage (or basement, or attic, or the shop
in your back yard), it's a spur-of-the-moment thing. You
can trot out to your project in flip-flops and shorts
and get with it, with the result that you can scratch the
itch on the spot. More gets done that way.
Oh, and before I forget- that was a GREAT video, Jack! I
found myself watching the control surfaces and cables as
much as the scenery on the ground, to see how your
airplane is rigged and how things work in flight. It was
that way watching Mike Cuy's "smoking runs" video, too-
I watch the cables and controls and the airplane's response
as much as I do the fun flying stuff.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 2
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| Subject: | Gary Boothe's progress |
So Gary,
Are you just going to take that?
I think Chris just said you have dog's breath.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
catdesigns@att.net
Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 2:34 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Gary Boothe's progress
Gary
I thought I felt you breathing down my neck but it was just the dog.
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net>
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 9:26 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Gary Boothe's progress
<gboothe5@comcast.net>
>
> Just trying to catch up to Chris Tracy! By Golly, I think he's going
to
> finish before me!
>
> Gary Boothe
Message 3
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| Subject: | Rib Truss design, ala 1940 |
Tom,
Those old publications are a lot more practical in approach than
anything published today, that's for sure.
In general, in all trusses (which the wing rib and the fuselage are),
ideally the centerlines of the members would intersect (at points called
"nodes"). This is the ideal way to construct a truss, with all members
straight, and connections pinned, because then all members are either in
tension or compression (no bending or shear or torsion). But we all live
in the real world, rather than an ideal world. The top and bottom
capstrips are not a series of short, straight sections, but rather,
continuous, curved strips. And all of the joints are gusseted, not
pinned, which will impart some bending forces when stressed. Because of
the use of the gusseted joints, accurate alignment of the centerlines of
the members is not so critical.
One other thing to keep in mind when "designing" a wing rib for the
Pietenpol is the fact that there are the drag/anti-drag cables
criss-crossing through the structure, as well as the control cables,
which must not intersect with the rib structures.
One statement you made struck me as funny, though. You wrote that "this
wing, using the original Piet airfoil, has flown 80+ years. The only
change I've made is..." to change the AIRFOIL.
Bill C.
Message 4
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| Subject: | gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint |
maybe ?
Well, there's 8 minutes I won't get back.
Just kidding.
Maybe the best 8 minutes of my weekend - and it was a holiday weekend,
so that's saying something.
Very nice, Jack.
Thanks for sharing.
Bill C.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
Phillips
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 3:51 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about
latex paint maybe ?
--> <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
Just had a nice weekend of flying - Check it out at:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5HZGq0YZ2Y, if you don't mind wasting 8
minutes looking at scenery from a Pietenpol.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: engine stand |
Jake:
Take a look here for Corvair engine ID
http://www.corvaircraft.com/
Michael in Maine
----- Original Message -----
From: "mr-fix-all" <jb.spiegel@us.schneider-electric.com>
> OK, folks here it is, the problem is I can't definitively ID the motor,
Specs:
>
> 1965 Corvair, says 500 on the fender,
Message 6
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| Subject: | gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint |
maybe ?
Oh Man Jack! I just drooled all over my keyboard.
Stinemetze
McPherson, KS.
Just had a nice weekend of flying - flew the RV-4 up to Smith Mountain
Lake,
Virginia, then did some Pietenpol flying up there. I took up a friend who
has a nice video camera and he shot some good footage from the Pietenpol
over the lake. Check it out at:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5HZGq0YZ2Y, if you don't mind wasting 8
minutes looking at scenery from a Pietenpol.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Rib Truss design, ala 1940 |
This just in from David Paule, a retired Aerospace StrucStress analyst:
I am not a member of the Piet forum, but I read it regularly.
The reason why all the centerlines meet at the same place is to avoid local bending
moments. I'll describe.
If there were distances between the intersections of say an upright and the adjacent
diagonal, then the cap strip would carry a bending moment equal to the vertical
force from the upright times that distance. The bending moment would be
transmitted through the gussets because there's no strength at the end grain.
But the upright would carry the moment all by itself at the edge of the gusset,
and the orientation of the bending moment would load up the upright in the
flatwise direction, its weakest direction.
This common intersection of elements, added to the triangular nature of the layout,
is the difference between a "truss" and a "frame." Trusses carry only axial
forces. Frame elements also carry bending. It's an important distinction, and
since bars are better able to carry axial forces than bending moments, that's
why light-weight structures are often designed as trusses.
Incidentally, that book you referred to is a good one - I've got it. Thanks for
mentioning it, that's a service to the community, especially the newer folks.
David Paule
Retired aerospace stress analyst
--------
Tom Kreiner
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262073#262073
Message 8
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Here is a shot of my finished panel. The extremely figured Birdseye maple is some
that I have been holding onto for over 20 years. Making engine noises is even
more fun now.
--------
PAPA MIKE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262074#262074
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1250_134.jpg
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Rib Truss design, ala 1940 |
Bill C.
Although I'm laying out an airfoil so we can build NC rib jigs, and other tooling,
the positions of the various truss members has not changed. There will be
no other mods to the wing members, such as drag, anti-drag wires, etc.
TK
--------
Tom Kreiner
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262075#262075
Message 10
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| Subject: | Gary Boothe's progress |
Stop it now Gary, stop it now!
:-)
-----Original Message-----
>From: Bill Church <eng@canadianrogers.com>
>Sent: Sep 8, 2009 8:54 AM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Gary Boothe's progress
>
>
>
>So Gary,
>Are you just going to take that?
>I think Chris just said you have dog's breath.
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>catdesigns@att.net
>Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 2:34 AM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Gary Boothe's progress
>
>Gary
>
>I thought I felt you breathing down my neck but it was just the dog.
>
>Chris
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net>
>To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 9:26 PM
>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Gary Boothe's progress
>
>
><gboothe5@comcast.net>
>>
>> Just trying to catch up to Chris Tracy! By Golly, I think he's going
>to
>> finish before me!
>>
>> Gary Boothe
>
>
Message 11
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Ooh, where did you get that attitude indicator?
Matt
On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 11:46 AM, 899PM <rockriverrifle@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Here is a shot of my finished panel. The extremely figured Birdseye maple
> is some that I have been holding onto for over 20 years. Making engine
> noises is even more fun now.
>
> --------
> PAPA MIKE
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262074#262074
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1250_134.jpg
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Rib Truss design, ala 1940 |
What exactly does the "new" airfoil buy you (us)? Unless I'm missing
something everyone seems pretty pleased with Pietpol's original airfoil.
Matt
On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 11:49 AM, tkreiner <tkreiner@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Bill C.
>
> Although I'm laying out an airfoil so we can build NC rib jigs, and other
> tooling, the positions of the various truss members has not changed. There
> will be no other mods to the wing members, such as drag, anti-drag wires,
> etc.
>
> TK
>
> --------
> Tom Kreiner
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262075#262075
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Rib Truss design, ala 1940 |
Matt,
You ARE missing something-- about four or more years of intermittent discussion
of alternative airfoils, whether NACA 2412, Clark Y or USA 35B, or most notably
Riblett airfoils, and among the last the Riblett 612 in particular.
The 612 has a more bulbuous nose (bigger radius) and is thicker (taller, more Y-axis)
at its thickest part, than the Piet rib. The "12" in "612" means that
the highest Y is about 12 percent of the length of the chord, whereas the Piet
airfoil is about 8 percent, sometimes stated as "7 percent," but it seems higher
to me (from memory, not looking at either a rib or a drawing, sorry).
People using the NACA 2412 or Riblett 612 claim higher cruising speeds, similar
climb rates, and softer stalls on landing flare than if using the Pietenpol original--
BP's FC 10. Several builders are now building the Riblett ribs and
will use that wing. Lowell Frank is likely the only builder and flier who has
changed wings on the same plane, and flown them both, so as to have comparative
data.
Several people have run comparative airfoils through X.foil and the like, and if
you are interested in that, take a look at airfoil.com, checking the archives
and attached files there. I don't think anyone has ever run a wing based on
a Riblett or a Piet FC 10 through a wind tunnel. If so, please correct me.
Riblett himself speaks poorly of the Pietenpol airfoil, but then he doesn't speak
well of NACA, either. A few builders have spoken with him, and he recommends
the 2412 among NACA airfoils, but especially either his 612 or 613.5 airfoils
for a Pietenpol.
Check the matronics Piet archives for more info and discussion. Include in your
reading pitching moments, center of lift, and the like, which has all been well
discussed on this site.
BTW, there is a strong opposing view. Many experienced builders and Piet fliers
say that the original FC 10 is as good or better than so called improvements
and has the further advantage of being authentic Piet and very, very time tested.
A few builders seeking more lift have pointed out that the builder wanting
to operate in thinner air or carry heavier loads could add four feet to the
wingspan and be assured of more lift.
That is as XXXXXXXXXX "fair and balanced" as I can be. For me it felt slightly
like a migraine headache ;-)
Judge for yourself, but please first read the many, many posts. I have "given
at the office" on this one myself, and have little interest in opining further
until I have flown the same plane with different wing sets, which I may do, but
first things first.
Tim in central TX
-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Redmond
Sent: Sep 8, 2009 12:54 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rib Truss design, ala 1940
What exactly does the "new" airfoil buy you (us)? Unless I'm missing something
everyone seems pretty pleased with Pietpol's original airfoil.
Matt
On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 11:49 AM, tkreiner <tkreiner@gmail.com> wrote:
Bill C.
Although I'm laying out an airfoil so we can build NC rib jigs, and other tooling,
the positions of the various truss members has not changed. There will be
no other mods to the wing members, such as drag, anti-drag wires, etc.
TK
--------
Tom Kreiner
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262075#262075
Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
Matt Dralle, List Admin.
====
Message 14
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| Subject: | Traveling to the West Coast |
Okay sports fans. I will being arriving Ontario Ca Tuesday evening the 15th
then on to Nipomo, CA 16,17,18. I have no idea where that is nor does it
matter except for the obvious question.
Any Piet projects in the Nipomo Ca area to look at or check out? From what
I know at the moment its about 40 minutes out from Santa Maria. that's the
extent of my knowledge on that topic
Not sure about timing, but thought I would ask. and I may have access to
wheels not too certain about that or when.
contact off list please
John
Do not archive
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Rib Truss design, ala 1940 |
Matt=2C
If Pieti Lowells performance is to be believed=2C and I think it is since I
have seen videos of him taking off. Then you would gain more lift (Read b
etter climb) and a lower stall speed since the 613.5 and the 612 stall at
a higher angle of attack. I wonder though if most of the performance doesn
't come from his highly modified Model A (close to 90hp).
Me=2C I'm going with the std airfoil. I will seek Lowel's advice on the Mo
del A though. I can always build a different wing for not a lot of $ down
the road. I agree with mike cuy. Just put a longer wing on it.
Just my .02
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rib Truss design=2C ala 1940
From: mdredmond@gmail.com
What exactly does the "new" airfoil buy you (us)? Unless I'm missing somet
hing everyone seems pretty pleased with Pietpol's original airfoil.
Matt
On Tue=2C Sep 8=2C 2009 at 11:49 AM=2C tkreiner <tkreiner@gmail.com> wrote:
Bill C.
Although I'm laying out an airfoil so we can build NC rib jigs=2C and other
tooling=2C the positions of the various truss members has not changed. Th
ere will be no other mods to the wing members=2C such as drag=2C anti-drag
wires=2C etc.
TK
--------
Tom Kreiner
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262075#262075
Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/
Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
Matt Dralle=2C List Admin.
====
_________________________________________________________________
With Windows Live=2C you can organize=2C edit=2C and share your photos.
http://www.windowslive.com/Desktop/PhotoGallery
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Rib Truss design, ala 1940 |
Okay. I didn't mean to awake a beast, but it just seems to me that for most
guys' missions sticking to the plans is reasonable. I mean, really, is an
extra thirty seconds to get to a thousand feet really going to matter on the
average Sunday morning? I can certainly understand making safety-related
changes like significantly reducing landing speed or taming bad stall
characteristics (to the extent they even exist in the Piet).
I'm also building an RV and no reasonable effort or expense will be spared
in making that as fast and light as possible, but trying to eke climb or
cruise performance out of Pietenpol seems a bit ridiculous to me unless you
have a specific need.
Matt
On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 2:06 PM, Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead@hotmail.com>wrote:
> Matt,
>
> If Pieti Lowells performance is to be believed, and I think it is since I
> have seen videos of him taking off. Then you would gain more lift (Read
> better climb) and a lower stall speed since the 613.5 and the 612 stall at
> a higher angle of attack. I wonder though if most of the performance
> doesn't come from his highly modified Model A (close to 90hp).
>
> Me, I'm going with the std airfoil. I will seek Lowel's advice on the
> Model A though. I can always build a different wing for not a lot of $ down
> the road. I agree with mike cuy. Just put a longer wing on it.
>
> Just my .02
>
> Doug Dever
> In beautiful Stow Ohio
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Rib Truss design, ala 1940 |
Matt=2C
I think for those of us who are of std FAA weight and operate out of 3=2C00
0ft+ strips near sea level the std configuration is fine. However=2C havi
ng been a flight instructor out of a 2=2C200ft strip there were days when
with two 170lb people you did not dare fill the tanks. flying for a mile a
nd a half just to get enough alt to turn xwind.
And hey there are those who will chastise those of us that wish to put a Mo
del A or a corvair up front. As I said before I question the merits of pu
tting one of the Riblett airfoils on as opposed to adding 4ft to the wing s
pan. Tough to beat hp and wing area. But on the other hand. Just watch a
video of Pieti Lowell's climb. There are those of us who really need more
of somethin' if we want to take pax.
Just as there are those who question the 612 there are those who question a
non cert. powerplant even though that's how Mr pietenpol did it.
OK enough of this. Has been beat to death about a month ago
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
Just got plans building rib jig
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rib Truss design=2C ala 1940
From: mdredmond@gmail.com
Okay. I didn't mean to awake a beast=2C but it just seems to me that for m
ost guys' missions sticking to the plans is reasonable. I mean=2C really
=2C is an extra thirty seconds to get to a thousand feet really going to ma
tter on the average Sunday morning? I can certainly understand making safe
ty-related changes like significantly reducing landing speed or taming bad
stall characteristics (to the extent they even exist in the Piet).
I'm also building an RV and no reasonable effort or expense will be spared
in making that as fast and light as possible=2C but trying to eke climb or
cruise performance out of Pietenpol seems a bit ridiculous to me unless you
have a specific need.
Matt
On Tue=2C Sep 8=2C 2009 at 2:06 PM=2C Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead@hotmail.c
om> wrote:
Matt=2C
If Pieti Lowells performance is to be believed=2C and I think it is since I
have seen videos of him taking off. Then you would gain more lift (Read b
etter climb) and a lower stall speed since the 613.5 and the 612 stall at
a higher angle of attack. I wonder though if most of the performance doesn
't come from his highly modified Model A (close to 90hp).
Me=2C I'm going with the std airfoil. I will seek Lowel's advice on the Mo
del A though. I can always build a different wing for not a lot of $ down
the road. I agree with mike cuy. Just put a longer wing on it.
Just my .02
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
_________________________________________________________________
With Windows Live=2C you can organize=2C edit=2C and share your photos.
http://www.windowslive.com/Desktop/PhotoGallery
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Rib Truss design, ala 1940 |
Makes sense. I'm 170# at 630 MSL.
The real reason I brought it up is that Tom (started this thread) is also
designing MY wing. So whatever he does is what I'm gettin' (unless I strike
off on my own). Just want to make the right choices in the beginning and
I'm always skeptical of anything that resembles a rabbithole.
Thanks for your input - I appreciate it.
Matt
On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 3:21 PM, Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead@hotmail.com>wrote:
>
> Matt,
>
> I think for those of us who are of std FAA weight and operate out of
> 3,000ft+ strips near sea level the std configuration is fine. However,
> having been a flight instructor out of a 2,200ft strip there were days when
> with two 170lb people you did not dare fill the tanks. flying for a mile
> and a half just to get enough alt to turn xwind.
> And hey there are those who will chastise those of us that wish to put a
> Model A or a corvair up front. As I said before I question the merits of
> putting one of the Riblett airfoils on as opposed to adding 4ft to the wing
> span. Tough to beat hp and wing area. But on the other hand. Just watch a
> video of Pieti Lowell's climb. There are those of us who really need more
> of somethin' if we want to take pax.
>
> Just as there are those who question the 612 there are those who question a
> non cert. powerplant even though that's how Mr pietenpol did it.
>
> OK enough of this. Has been beat to death about a month ago
>
>
> Doug Dever
> In beautiful Stow Ohio
> Just got plans building rib jig
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 14:31:48 -0500
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rib Truss design, ala 1940
> From: mdredmond@gmail.com
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>
> Okay. I didn't mean to awake a beast, but it just seems to me that for
> most guys' missions sticking to the plans is reasonable. I mean, really, is
> an extra thirty seconds to get to a thousand feet really going to matter on
> the average Sunday morning? I can certainly understand making
> safety-related changes like significantly reducing landing speed or taming
> bad stall characteristics (to the extent they even exist in the Piet).
>
> I'm also building an RV and no reasonable effort or expense will be spared
> in making that as fast and light as possible, but trying to eke climb or
> cruise performance out of Pietenpol seems a bit ridiculous to me unless you
> have a specific need.
>
> Matt
>
> On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 2:06 PM, Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead@hotmail.com>wrote:
>
> Matt,
>
> If Pieti Lowells performance is to be believed, and I think it is since I
> have seen videos of him taking off. Then you would gain more lift (Read
> better climb) and a lower stall speed since the 613.5 and the 612 stall at
> a higher angle of attack. I wonder though if most of the performance
> doesn't come from his highly modified Model A (close to 90hp).
>
> Me, I'm going with the std airfoil. I will seek Lowel's advice on the
> Model A though. I can always build a different wing for not a lot of $ down
> the road. I agree with mike cuy. Just put a longer wing on it.
>
> Just my .02
>
> Doug Dever
> In beautiful Stow Ohio
>
> *
>
> st">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listronics.comww.matronics.com/contribution
> *
>
>
> ------------------------------
> With Windows Live, you can organize, edit, and share your photos. Click
> here. <http://www.windowslive.com/Desktop/PhotoGallery>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Rib Truss design, ala 1940 |
A rabbit hole don't look to bad if you're a rabbit=3B-)
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rib Truss design=2C ala 1940
From: mdredmond@gmail.com
Makes sense. I'm 170# at 630 MSL.
The real reason I brought it up is that Tom (started this thread) is also d
esigning MY wing. So whatever he does is what I'm gettin' (unless I strike
off on my own). Just want to make the right choices in the beginning and
I'm always skeptical of anything that resembles a rabbithole.
Thanks for your input - I appreciate it.
Matt
On Tue=2C Sep 8=2C 2009 at 3:21 PM=2C Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead@hotmail.c
om> wrote:
Matt=2C
I think for those of us who are of std FAA weight and operate out of 3=2C00
0ft+ strips near sea level the std configuration is fine. However=2C havi
ng been a flight instructor out of a 2=2C200ft strip there were days when
with two 170lb people you did not dare fill the tanks. flying for a mile a
nd a half just to get enough alt to turn xwind.
And hey there are those who will chastise those of us that wish to put a Mo
del A or a corvair up front. As I said before I question the merits of pu
tting one of the Riblett airfoils on as opposed to adding 4ft to the wing s
pan. Tough to beat hp and wing area. But on the other hand. Just watch a
video of Pieti Lowell's climb. There are those of us who really need more
of somethin' if we want to take pax.
Just as there are those who question the 612 there are those who question a
non cert. powerplant even though that's how Mr pietenpol did it.
OK enough of this. Has been beat to death about a month ago
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
Just got plans building rib jig
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rib Truss design=2C ala 1940
From: mdredmond@gmail.com
Okay. I didn't mean to awake a beast=2C but it just seems to me that for m
ost guys' missions sticking to the plans is reasonable. I mean=2C really
=2C is an extra thirty seconds to get to a thousand feet really going to ma
tter on the average Sunday morning? I can certainly understand making safe
ty-related changes like significantly reducing landing speed or taming bad
stall characteristics (to the extent they even exist in the Piet).
I'm also building an RV and no reasonable effort or expense will be spared
in making that as fast and light as possible=2C but trying to eke climb or
cruise performance out of Pietenpol seems a bit ridiculous to me unless you
have a specific need.
Matt
On Tue=2C Sep 8=2C 2009 at 2:06 PM=2C Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead@hotmail.c
om> wrote:
Matt=2C
If Pieti Lowells performance is to be believed=2C and I think it is since I
have seen videos of him taking off. Then you would gain more lift (Read b
etter climb) and a lower stall speed since the 613.5 and the 612 stall at
a higher angle of attack. I wonder though if most of the performance doesn
't come from his highly modified Model A (close to 90hp).
Me=2C I'm going with the std airfoil. I will seek Lowel's advice on the Mo
del A though. I can always build a different wing for not a lot of $ down
the road. I agree with mike cuy. Just put a longer wing on it.
Just my .02
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
st">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ronics.com
ww.matronics.com/contribution
With Windows Live=2C you can organize=2C edit=2C and share your photos. Cli
ck here.
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
a href="http://forums.matronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.mat
ronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
_________________________________________________________________
Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you.
http://www.bing.com/cashback?form=MSHYCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYC
B_BackToSchool_Cashback_BTSCashback_1x1
Message 20
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| Subject: | Fuselage building for Continental engine |
I have a few questions for building the short fuselage to use a Continental
engine.
-
Are the large plywood "sides" needed on the inside up front by the top-en
gine mount brackets if the "model A shelf" will not be built? Can I use nor
mal size gussets for-those top-engine mount brackets and some wedges?
-
The plans for the model A show the large ash cross member up front connecti
ng the sides at about 4.5" down from the top. Is this heavy ash member stil
l needed for a Continental and if so, can it be moved up closer to the top,
nearer the top engine mount brackets?- Or can a spruce piece be used up
at the top same as what is shown for the bottom?- (The bottom piece is 3/
4" X 3/4" spruce...seems a little small.)
-
Lastly, for now,- most of the various braces are 1/2" X 1". Do I stand th
ese pieces up so they are 1" tall like the longerons, or lay them flat- s
o they are 1/2" tall?
-
Thanks is advance.
Message 21
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| Subject: | Final version- one-piece-wing stand |
Here are some pics of the final version of my one-piece-wing stand, after I added
a few stiffeners. Now it is sufficiently braced and I am confident it will
do the job without failure. I will send?additional detailed photos to Chris Tracy's?Westcoastpiet.com
site.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Final version- one-piece-wing stand |
Dan,
Really slick, looks like we are gonna see Dan on late night TV in place of
Billy Mays. The dandy Dan wing row-tater. But wait if you act right now we
will double your order you get the wing rotator, with the 2.0 hp brigs and
straton drive motor, hi strength 70 durameter hi compression wheels with
an extra wheel set just for ordering plus the lifetime caster sets and
this handy no drip paint applicator. No more ugly paint drips the row-tater
spins them away swish bam and you're the paint job man. And we guarantee it,
if you're not satisfied not completely 110% send it back we'll pay the
freight for a full refund and keep the no drip paint applicator as our free gif
t.just for trying the Dandy Dan Wing Row-Tater.
How can we make this incredible offer, we are so completely convinced that
you'll fall in love with the Dandy Dan wing row-tater WE GUARNTEE IT.
Spin,Swish and Bam you're the wing painting man
The proceeding was a paid commercial message
So act right now our operators are standing by but you must order within
the next 30 minutes to take advantage of our risk free offer while supplies
last batteries not included. a sales final subject to destination charger
dealer prep, instillation and setup excise charge title prep and pro rata
contract except where prohibited by law.
Do not archive this once in a life time offer.
John
In a message dated 9/8/2009 8:14:23 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
helspersew@aol.com writes:
Here are some pics of the final version of my one-piece-wing stand, after
I added a few stiffeners. Now it is sufficiently braced and I am confident
it will do the job without failure. I will send additional detailed photos
to Chris Tracy's Westcoastpiet.com site.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
Message 23
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| Subject: | Final version- one-piece-wing stand |
Dan....You have way too much room and way too much time on your hands....Ju
st kidding...Looks great!!!!
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Final version- one-piece-wing stand
From: helspersew@aol.com
Here are some pics of the final version of my one-piece-wing stand=2C after
I added a few stiffeners. Now it is sufficiently braced and I am confident
it will do the job without failure. I will send additional detailed photos
to Chris Tracy's Westcoastpiet.com site.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove=2C IL.
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail=AE is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast.
http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=PID23391::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-U
S:WM_HYGN_faster:082009
Message 24
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| Subject: | Final version- one-piece-wing stand |
Dan=2C
There are a few times when I wish I had a jig like that.
Very nice engineering.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Final version- one-piece-wing stand
From: helspersew@aol.com
Here are some pics of the final version of my one-piece-wing stand=2C after
I added a few stiffeners. Now it is sufficiently braced and I am confident
it will do the job without failure. I will send additional detailed photos
to Chris Tracy's Westcoastpiet.com site.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove=2C IL.
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail=AE is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast.
http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=PID23391::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-U
S:WM_HYGN_faster:082009
Message 25
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| Subject: | Final version- one-piece-wing stand |
John=2C
You have waaaaay to much time on you hands
do not archive
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
From: AMsafetyC@aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Final version- one-piece-wing stand
Dan=2C
Really slick=2C looks like we are gonna see Dan on late night TV in place o
f Billy Mays. The dandy Dan wing row-tater. But wait if you act right now
we will double your order you get the wing rotator=2C with the 2.0 hp brigs
and straton drive motor=2C hi strength 70 durameter hi compression wheels
with an extra wheel set just for ordering plus the lifetime caster sets an
d this handy no drip paint applicator. No more ugly paint drips the row-tat
er spins them away swish bam and you're the paint job man. And we guarantee
it=2C if you're not satisfied not completely 110% send it back we'll pay t
he freight for a full refund and keep the no drip paint applicator as our f
ree gift.just for trying the Dandy Dan Wing Row-Tater.
How can we make this incredible offer=2C we are so completely convinced tha
t you'll fall in love with the Dandy Dan wing row-tater WE GUARNTEE IT. Spi
n=2CSwish and Bam you're the wing painting man
The proceeding was a paid commercial message
So act right now our operators are standing by but you must order within th
e next 30 minutes to take advantage of our risk free offer while supplies l
ast batteries not included. a sales final subject to destination charger d
ealer prep=2C instillation and setup excise charge title prep and pro rata
contract except where prohibited by law.
Do not archive this once in a life time offer.
John
In a message dated 9/8/2009 8:14:23 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time=2C helsperse
w@aol.com writes:
Here are some pics of the final version of my one-piece-wing stand=2C after
I added a few stiffeners. Now it is sufficiently braced and I am confident
it will do the job without failure. I will send additional detailed photos
to Chris Tracy's Westcoastpiet.com site.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove=2C IL.
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail=AE is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast.
http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=PID23391::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-U
S:WM_HYGN_faster:082009
Message 26
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|
| Subject: | powerplants for the Pietenpol |
My Pietenpol has the 85 Continental with 72/44 prop wood. I have owned many
certified aircraft, but the Piet is the most fun of them all! Takes off i
n less than 400 feet at 40 indicated and climbs at 500 ft per min at 50 ind
icated. I like to throttle back to 2000 rpm and it holds altitude while cru
ising at 60-65 indicated. How much fun is that! While it is not the roomy a
irplane that has an enclosed cockpit that some may want, this is the plane
that brings one back to the basics of flying, enjoying the scenery, waving
at friends, and not paying those huge airport fee's for parking, repairs, a
nnuals, etc. etc. It fit's my pocket book perfectly! A proven, well tested
, safe machine. Ross Alexander, Orangeville, Ontario, Canada=0A=0A=0A=0A
=0A________________________________=0A =0A =0A=0A =0A______________________
__________=0A =0A=0A=0A =0A =0A> =0A>I think for those of us who are of std
FAA weight and operate out of 3,000ft+ strips near sea level the std confi
guration is fine. However, having been a flight instructor out of a 2,20
0ft strip there were days when with two 170lb people you did not dare fill
the tanks. flying for a mile and a half just to get enough alt to turn xwi
nd.=0A>And hey there are those who will chastise those of us that wish to p
ut a Model A or a corvair up front. As I said before I question the merit
s of putting one of the Riblett airfoils on as opposed to adding 4ft to the
wing span. Tough to beat hp and wing area. But on the other hand. Just
watch a video of Pieti Lowell's climb. There are those of us who really ne
ed more of somethin' if we want to take pax.=0A> =0A>Just as there are thos
e who question the 612 there are those who question a non cert. powerplant
even though that's how Mr pietenpol did it.=0A> =0A>OK enough of this. Has
been beat to death about a month ago =0A>=0A>=0A> =0A>=0A>Doug Dever=0A>In
beautiful Stow Ohio =0A>Just got plans building rib jig=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>
=0A>________________________________=0A >Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 14:31:48 -05
00 =0A>=0A>=0A>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rib Truss design, ala 1940
=0A>From: mdredmond@gmail.com=0A>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0A>=0A>
=0A>Okay. I didn't mean to awake a beast, but it just seems to me that for
most guys' missions sticking to the plans is reasonable. I mean, really,
is an extra thirty seconds to get to a thousand feet really going to matter
on the average Sunday morning? I can certainly understand making safety-r
elated changes like significantly reducing landing speed or taming bad stal
l characteristics (to the extent they even exist in the Piet).=0A> =0A>I'm
also building an RV and no reasonable effort or expense will be spared in m
aking that as fast and light as possible, but trying to eke climb or cruise
performance out of Pietenpol seems a bit ridiculous to me unless you have
a specific need.=0A> =0A>Matt=0A>=0A>=0A>On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 2:06 PM, Do
ug Dever <chiefpepperhead@hotmail.com> wrote:=0A>=0A>Matt,=0A>> =0A>>If Pie
ti Lowells performance is to be believed, and I think it is since I have se
en videos of him taking off. Then you would gain more lift (Read better cl
imb) and a lower stall speed since the 613.5 and the 612 stall at a higher
angle of attack. I wonder though if most of the performance doesn't come
from his highly modified Model A (close to 90hp).=0A>> =0A>>Me, I'm going w
ith the std airfoil. I will seek Lowel's advice on the Model A though. I
can always build a different wing for not a lot of $ down the road. I agre
e with mike cuy. Just put a longer wing on it.=0A>> =0A>>Just my .02=0A>>
=0A>>Doug Dever=0A>>In beautiful Stow Ohio=0A>>=0A>>=0A>=0A>=0A>st">http://
www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List=0A>ronics.com ww.matronics.com/c
ontribution =0A>=0A>=0A>________________________________=0A >With Windows L
ive, you can organize, edit, and share your photos. Click here. =0A>=0A>=0A
>" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List=0A>a
href="http://forums.matronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matr
onics.com=0A>_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =0A>=0A=0A=0A=0A
=0Ast">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List=0Aronics.com=0Aww.
matronics.com/contribution=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AGet b
ack to school stuff for them and cashback for you. Try Bing now. =0A=0A=0A_
-========================
==================0A=0A=0A _________
_________________________________________________________=0ALooking for the
perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! =0A=0Ahttp://www.flickr.com/gift/
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint |
maybe ?
Alright now if you are anal about wedges and gussets
then you must go to the Flitzer web page and look at the fuselage
all those wedges and gusset's blowed my tiny Bozo brain.
Check the Connecticut Flitzer Werkes out
I'll have to wow the pictures, In my opinion we all know the Germans
usually do it right(well untill the Russians come up with the T-34)
so here you go an updated modernized version of wedges gone wild.
Russell
On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 12:10 PM, TOM STINEMETZE <TOMS@mcpcity.com> wrote:
> *Oh Man Jack! I just drooled all over my keyboard.*
> **
> *Stinemetze*
> *McPherson, KS.*
>
>
> Just had a nice weekend of flying - flew the RV-4 up to Smith Mountain
> Lake,
> Virginia, then did some Pietenpol flying up there. I took up a friend who
> has a nice video camera and he shot some good footage from the Pietenpol
> over the lake. Check it out at:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5HZGq0YZ2Y, if you don't mind wasting 8
> minutes looking at scenery from a Pietenpol.
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Fuselage building for Continental engine |
Yes I was thinking the same think? any one know since I
have located a zero time a-65 with new pistons for 5,000
minus the mags and carb.
On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 6:45 PM, Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>wrote:
> I have a few questions for building the short fuselage to use a
> Continental engine.
>
> Are the large plywood "sides" needed on the inside up front by the
> top engine mount brackets if the "model A shelf" will not be built? Can I
> use normal size gussets for those top engine mount brackets and some wedges?
>
> The plans for the model A show the large ash cross member up front
> connecting the sides at about 4.5" down from the top. Is this heavy ash
> member still needed for a Continental and if so, can it be moved up closer
> to the top, nearer the top engine mount brackets? Or can a spruce piece be
> used up at the top same as what is shown for the bottom? (The bottom piece
> is 3/4" X 3/4" spruce...seems a little small.)
>
> Lastly, for now, most of the various braces are 1/2" X 1". Do I stand
> these pieces up so they are 1" tall like the longerons, or lay them flat so
> they are 1/2" tall?
>
> Thanks is advance.
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint |
may...
there are only so many weggies any guy can tollerate
do not archive
In a message dated 9/8/2009 9:52:11 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
rray032003@gmail.com writes:
Alright now if you are anal about wedges and gussets
then you must go to the Flitzer web page and look at the fuselage
all those wedges and gusset's blowed my tiny Bozo brain.
Check the Connecticut Flitzer Werkes out
I'll have to wow the pictures, In my opinion we all know the Germans
usually do it right(well untill the Russians come up with the T-34)
so here you go an updated modernized version of wedges gone wild.
Russell
On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 12:10 PM, TOM STINEMETZE <_TOMS@mcpcity.com_
(mailto:TOMS@mcpcity.com) > wrote:
Oh Man Jack! I just drooled all over my keyboard.
Stinemetze
McPherson, KS.
Just had a nice weekend of flying - flew the RV-4 up to Smith Mountain
Lake,
Virginia, then did some Pietenpol flying up there. I took up a friend who
has a nice video camera and he shot some good footage from the Pietenpol
over the lake. Check it out at:
_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5HZGq0YZ2Y,_
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5HZGq0YZ2Y,) if you don't mind wasting 8
minutes looking at scenery from a Pietenpol.
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
Message 30
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Wow! That is beautiful work.
Yes, where did you get that nifty indicator?
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262181#262181
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint |
maybe ?
Here is the link to the website:
http://www.flitzerbiplane.com/
Greg C.
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Ray
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 8:50 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about
latex paint maybe ?
Alright now if you are anal about wedges and gussets
then you must go to the Flitzer web page and look at the fuselage
all those wedges and gusset's blowed my tiny Bozo brain.
Check the Connecticut Flitzer Werkes out
I'll have to wow the pictures, In my opinion we all know the Germans
usually do it right(well untill the Russians come up with the T-34)
so here you go an updated modernized version of wedges gone wild.
Russell
On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 12:10 PM, TOM STINEMETZE <TOMS@mcpcity.com>
wrote:
Oh Man Jack! I just drooled all over my keyboard.
Stinemetze
McPherson, KS.
Just had a nice weekend of flying - flew the RV-4 up to Smith
Mountain Lake,
Virginia, then did some Pietenpol flying up there. I took up a
friend who
has a nice video camera and he shot some good footage from the
Pietenpol
over the lake. Check it out at:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5HZGq0YZ2Y, if you don't mind
wasting 8
minutes looking at scenery from a Pietenpol.
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Rib Truss design, ala 1940 |
Okay Tom,
As long as you're going to maintain the truss locations per the original
Pietenpol rib design (which don't actually have dimensions on the plans
- but that's another issue), you won't likely run into serious
difficulties with the cables. Worst case, you might need to shift a rib
location an inch or two to the left or right.
It was because you wrote: "Since I've designed - along with Harry
Riblett himself - a Piet rib using the GA30-613.5 airfoil..." that I
assumed you had come up with your own arrangement of the truss members,
and might have some interference issues ahead of you.
Bill C.
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint |
maybe ?
While I don't argue the ability of the Germans to 'do it right', the Flitzer
is designed by Lynn Williams, who resides in the UK.
On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 8:50 PM, Robert Ray <rray032003@gmail.com> wrote:
> Alright now if you are anal about wedges and gussets
> then you must go to the Flitzer web page and look at the fuselage
> all those wedges and gusset's blowed my tiny Bozo brain.
>
> Check the Connecticut Flitzer Werkes out
>
>
> I'll have to wow the pictures, In my opinion we all know the Germans
> usually do it right(well untill the Russians come up with the T-34)
> so here you go an updated modernized version of wedges gone wild.
>
>
> Russell
>
Message 34
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| Subject: | Gary Boothe's progress |
NO. I think what Chris meant was that his dog has human breath!
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(15 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church
Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 5:55 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Gary Boothe's progress
So Gary,
Are you just going to take that?
I think Chris just said you have dog's breath.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
catdesigns@att.net
Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 2:34 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Gary Boothe's progress
Gary
I thought I felt you breathing down my neck but it was just the dog.
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net>
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 9:26 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Gary Boothe's progress
<gboothe5@comcast.net>
>
> Just trying to catch up to Chris Tracy! By Golly, I think he's going
to
> finish before me!
>
> Gary Boothe
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint |
maybe ?
Yes that is true but I think the original was a German
polar exploration plane built right after WW-1 and Lynn
added his extraordinary imaginative design skills to
the original to build this absolute beautiful and aerobatic
bi that's flys on VW power. I have speculated about
the fuselage built enclosing the shoulders with your head
sticking out was this to help you stay warm on a polar exploration.
Of couse German is good but my old Ford will out last your Mercedes.
Correct if this isn't correct.
Russell
On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 10:22 PM, Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com> wrote:
> While I don't argue the ability of the Germans to 'do it right', the
> Flitzer is designed by Lynn Williams, who resides in the UK.
>
> On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 8:50 PM, Robert Ray <rray032003@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Alright now if you are anal about wedges and gussets
>> then you must go to the Flitzer web page and look at the fuselage
>> all those wedges and gusset's blowed my tiny Bozo brain.
>>
>> Check the Connecticut Flitzer Werkes out
>>
>>
>> I'll have to wow the pictures, In my opinion we all know the Germans
>> usually do it right(well untill the Russians come up with the T-34)
>> so here you go an updated modernized version of wedges gone wild.
>>
>>
>> Russell
>>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Gary Boothe's progress |
Either that or Chris is groveling around on the floor.
Just how big is this dog anyway?
Clif
> <eng@canadianrogers.com>
> So Gary,
> Are you just going to take that?
> I think Chris just said you have dog's breath.
>
>
> Gary
> I thought I felt you breathing down my neck but it was just the dog.
> Chris
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Rib Truss design, ala 1940 |
timothywillis(at)earthlin wrote:
> Matt,
>
> You ARE missing something-- about four or more years of intermittent discussion
of alternative airfoils, whether NACA 2412, Clark Y or USA 35B, or most notably
Riblett airfoils, and among the last the Riblett 612 in particular.
>
> The 612 has a more bulbuous nose (bigger radius) and is thicker (taller, more
Y-axis) at its thickest part, than the Piet rib. The "12" in "612" means that
the highest Y is about 12 percent of the length of the chord, whereas the Piet
airfoil is about 8 percent, sometimes stated as "7 percent," but it seems higher
to me (from memory, not looking at either a rib or a drawing, sorry).
>
> People using the NACA 2412 or Riblett 612 claim higher cruising speeds, similar
climb rates, and softer stalls on landing flare than if using the Pietenpol
original-- BP's FC 10. Several builders are now building the Riblett ribs and
will use that wing. Lowell Frank is likely the only builder and flier who has
changed wings on the same plane, and flown them both, so as to have comparative
data.
>
> Several people have run comparative airfoils through X.foil and the like, and
if you are interested in that, take a look at airfoil.com, checking the archives
and attached files there. I don't think anyone has ever run a wing based
on a Riblett or a Piet FC 10 through a wind tunnel. If so, please correct me.
Riblett himself speaks poorly of the Pietenpol airfoil, but then he doesn't
speak well of NACA, either. A few builders have spoken with him, and he recommends
the 2412 among NACA airfoils, but especially either his 612 or 613.5 airfoils
for a Pietenpol.
>
> Check the matronics Piet archives for more info and discussion. Include in your
reading pitching moments, center of lift, and the like, which has all been
well discussed on this site.
>
> Guys: Is there anyone out there that might, someday try to- or might have to
stretch a glide path a little farther to make it over a tree, wire, corn field,
or many obstacles to make a safe landing ?The 612 can help.
> During my numerous talks with Mr Pietenpol he always invited new thoughts an
ideas, he never discouraged me when I asked him if I could turn a Ford upside
down on a Pietenpol to have better vision, He said, " You might look at a Funk
installation". I did, and She is still flying with the Ford type (Funk) inverted.
> Mr Pietenpol also told me that he tested a shorter airfoil and was not satisfied,
he said that he never told too many others, maybe Vi .
> It took me five years to proceed on the 612, from the first conversations with
Harry Riblett in 1992, Some of you fellows will try it, some will not, All I
have to say is just fly it once, you will see what I have been talking about.
> I to have flown the Pietenpol airfoil for many years, and enjoyed every minute,
wouldn't trade those flights for anything.
> Pieti Lowell
>
>
> Judge for yourself, but please first read the many, many posts. I have "given
at the office" on this one myself, and have little interest in opining further
until I have flown the same plane with different wing sets, which I may do,
but first things first.
>
> Tim in central TX
>
>
>
>
> --
>
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262194#262194
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint |
maybe ?
Hehe....been chatting with the Baron Morrisov, perhaps?
The Flitzer is completely the creation of Mr. Williams. It is not based on
any WW1 airplane...it's just supposed to look the part, and be a simple, fun
airplane for those with a Walter Mitty bent. :P
Ryan
On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 9:39 PM, Robert Ray <rray032003@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Yes that is true but I think the original was a German
> polar exploration plane built right after WW-1 and Lynn
> added his extraordinary imaginative design skills to
> the original to build this absolute beautiful and aerobatic
> bi that's flys on VW power. I have speculated about
> the fuselage built enclosing the shoulders with your head
> sticking out was this to help you stay warm on a polar exploration.
> Of couse German is good but my old Ford will out last your Mercedes.
> Correct if this isn't correct.
>
> Russell
>
Message 39
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Beautiful!!
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(15 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of 899PM
Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 9:46 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: MY PANEL
Here is a shot of my finished panel. The extremely figured Birdseye maple is
some that I have been holding onto for over 20 years. Making engine noises
is even more fun now.
--------
PAPA MIKE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262074#262074
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1250_134.jpg
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint |
maybe ?
Owen Davies wrote:
> And FWIW, I wouldn't worry too much about Grega's requirements. With
> all due respect for him and his work, he took a plane that's built
> like a tank and turned it into the shipping crate the tank came in.
I don't usually reply to my own messages, but I'd like to apologize to
the Grega fans for the sound of the above. I referred only to the degree
of reinforcement, not to the flying or aesthetic qualities of the Grega
modification. Nonetheless, the comment sounded pretty snide. It wasn't
intended.
Owen
Message 41
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| Subject: | Traveling to the West Coast |
John,
Lincoln, CA is 5 hours north of Santa Maria. We are having quite a
get-together on the 19th at fellow builder, Mike Weaver's house. Lincoln is
about 30 minutes from Sacramento Int'l Airport and you could fly out there
to anywhere you need to go.
C'mon, say you will..we'll make you an honorary guest member of the West
Coast Pieters (name not official).
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(15 ribs down.)
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
AMsafetyC@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 12:00 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Traveling to the West Coast
Okay sports fans. I will being arriving Ontario Ca Tuesday evening the 15th
then on to Nipomo, CA 16,17,18. I have no idea where that is nor does it
matter except for the obvious question.
Any Piet projects in the Nipomo Ca area to look at or check out? From what I
know at the moment its about 40 minutes out from Santa Maria. that's the
extent of my knowledge on that topic
Not sure about timing, but thought I would ask. and I may have access to
wheels not too certain about that or when.
contact off list please
John
Do not archive
_____
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: Rib Truss design, ala 1940 |
I am putting the naca 23012 on the piet, as suggested by Hobert Jones
who built and designed several planes, he didn't have anything negative to
say
about the airfoil he just had an affinity for the 23012 on the Taylor Craft.
I would not use it if using the Model A, I am going to buy a Continetal
a-65.
and I would like to fly from KY to Gardner KS to visit my daughter some
time and I might be able to get into the jet stream just kidding? Or take my
piano
with me.
Russell
On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 11:05 PM, Pieti Lowell <Lowellcfrank@yahoo.com>wrote:
> Lowellcfrank@yahoo.com>
>
>
> timothywillis(at)earthlin wrote:
> > Matt,
> >
> > You ARE missing something-- about four or more years of intermittent
> discussion of alternative airfoils, whether NACA 2412, Clark Y or USA 35B,
> or most notably Riblett airfoils, and among the last the Riblett 612 in
> particular.
> >
> > The 612 has a more bulbuous nose (bigger radius) and is thicker (taller,
> more Y-axis) at its thickest part, than the Piet rib. The "12" in "612"
> means that the highest Y is about 12 percent of the length of the chord,
> whereas the Piet airfoil is about 8 percent, sometimes stated as "7
> percent," but it seems higher to me (from memory, not looking at either a
> rib or a drawing, sorry).
> >
> > People using the NACA 2412 or Riblett 612 claim higher cruising speeds,
> similar climb rates, and softer stalls on landing flare than if using the
> Pietenpol original-- BP's FC 10. Several builders are now building the
> Riblett ribs and will use that wing. Lowell Frank is likely the only
> builder and flier who has changed wings on the same plane, and flown them
> both, so as to have comparative data.
> >
> > Several people have run comparative airfoils through X.foil and the like,
> and if you are interested in that, take a look at airfoil.com, checking
> the archives and attached files there. I don't think anyone has ever run a
> wing based on a Riblett or a Piet FC 10 through a wind tunnel. If so,
> please correct me. Riblett himself speaks poorly of the Pietenpol airfoil,
> but then he doesn't speak well of NACA, either. A few builders have spoken
> with him, and he recommends the 2412 among NACA airfoils, but especially
> either his 612 or 613.5 airfoils for a Pietenpol.
> >
> > Check the matronics Piet archives for more info and discussion. Include
> in your reading pitching moments, center of lift, and the like, which has
> all been well discussed on this site.
> >
> > Guys: Is there anyone out there that might, someday try to- or might have
> to stretch a glide path a little farther to make it over a tree, wire, corn
> field, or many obstacles to make a safe landing ?The 612 can help.
> > During my numerous talks with Mr Pietenpol he always invited new thoughts
> an ideas, he never discouraged me when I asked him if I could turn a Ford
> upside down on a Pietenpol to have better vision, He said, " You might look
> at a Funk installation". I did, and She is still flying with the Ford type
> (Funk) inverted.
> > Mr Pietenpol also told me that he tested a shorter airfoil and was not
> satisfied, he said that he never told too many others, maybe Vi .
> > It took me five years to proceed on the 612, from the first conversations
> with Harry Riblett in 1992, Some of you fellows will try it, some will not,
> All I have to say is just fly it once, you will see what I have been talking
> about.
> > I to have flown the Pietenpol airfoil for many years, and enjoyed every
> minute, wouldn't trade those flights for anything.
> > Pieti Lowell
> >
> >
> > Judge for yourself, but please first read the many, many posts. I have
> "given at the office" on this one myself, and have little interest in
> opining further until I have flown the same plane with different wing sets,
> which I may do, but first things first.
> >
> > Tim in central TX
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
>
> >
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262194#262194
>
>
Message 43
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| Subject: | Re: Jacks video a copy |
hi jack im fronm hanford and I have a copi from mick cuy is de same video o
r you have another one I like to now if is a copi aviable tanks seyou
--- On Mon, 9/7/09, AMsafetyC@aol.com <AMsafetyC@aol.com> wrote:
From: AMsafetyC@aol.com <AMsafetyC@aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Jacks video
=0A=0A =0A=0AJack, =0A-=0Ais that all you plan to do the rest of your lif
e, cash for rides?=0A-=0A-=0AJack nice job on the video an inspiration
to all us builders hoping we can =0Ado the same in our own Piets.=0A-=0AT
hanks for sharing=0A-=0AJohn=0A-=0ASafe in the morning!
=0A=0A
=0A=0A=0A
Message 44
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NICE!
On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 12:46 PM, 899PM <rockriverrifle@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Here is a shot of my finished panel. The extremely figured Birdseye maple
> is some that I have been holding onto for over 20 years. Making engine
> noises is even more fun now.
>
> --------
> PAPA MIKE
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262074#262074
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1250_134.jpg
>
>
Message 45
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| Subject: | Re: Gary Boothe's progress |
Not too big yet but he does like to eat. You may not have notice in the
center section picture there is a couch in the garage right now. Me and the
dog get caught sitting on it watching TV way too often. Maybe Gary WILL
catch up to me.
Chris
Sacramento, CA
WestCoastPiet.com
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854@shaw.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 7:54 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Gary Boothe's progress
>
> Either that or Chris is groveling around on the floor.
> Just how big is this dog anyway?
>
> Clif
>
>> <eng@canadianrogers.com>
>
>> So Gary,
>> Are you just going to take that?
>> I think Chris just said you have dog's breath.
>>
>>
>> Gary
>> I thought I felt you breathing down my neck but it was just the dog.
>> Chris
>
>
>
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