Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:22 AM - Re: gap seal (Thomas Bernie)
2. 06:09 AM - Re: Opinions Please (Jack Phillips)
3. 06:42 AM - A few questions for Kurt Shipman about his Piet (Ryan Mueller)
4. 06:48 AM - Re: Opinions Please (r.r.hall@cox.net)
5. 07:11 AM - Re: Re: Opinions Please (Ben Charvet)
6. 07:12 AM - Re: gap seal (Gene & Tammy)
7. 07:24 AM - How will the vendor do? (Jim Markle)
8. 08:04 AM - Re: Opinions Please (K5YAC)
9. 08:21 AM - Re: How will the vendor do? (K5YAC)
10. 08:44 AM - Re: Re: Opinions Please (Jim Markle)
11. 09:47 AM - Mike Cuy's drawings (Ryan Mueller)
12. 10:13 AM - Upper motor mount/wing brace question (Ben Charvet)
13. 11:17 AM - Re: Re: How will the vendor do? (Gene & Tammy)
14. 12:25 PM - Re: Opinions Please (shad bell)
15. 12:50 PM - Re: Upper motor mount/wing brace question (Jack Phillips)
16. 01:57 PM - Re: Opinions Please (K5YAC)
17. 01:59 PM - Re: How will the vendor do? (K5YAC)
18. 04:28 PM - Mike Cuy's sketches (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
19. 04:51 PM - Re: Re: Opinions Please (Lloyd Smith)
20. 05:05 PM - cable waging info/data (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
21. 05:55 PM - Re: Opinions Please (K5YAC)
22. 06:11 PM - Re: Re: Opinions Please (Robert Ray)
23. 06:33 PM - Re: Marquart Charger (Robert Ray)
Message 1
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Thanks Gene,
I'm almost done -- just paint cowling and make wing struts. Looks
like spring flying here in Gloucester, Mass. Here is a link to over
1000 photos of the 4 year project.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/berniejr/sets/72157617340470074/
Tom
N666TB
On Sep 19, 2009, at 11:55 AM, Gene & Tammy wrote:
> >
>
> Tom, your wings look great and I love the color! How far along on
> your build are you? More photos? I bought my flying Piet, I didn't
> build it and the only reason I not flying it today is I injured my
> leg. It'll be a week or so before I'll be able to fly again and I'm
> really tired of setting around. The weather here is slowly cooling
> down and I'm excited about the upcoming winter flying. Only wish we
> got more snow here so I could outfit the Piet with skies.
> Gene Grounded in Tennessee
> N502R
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Bernie" <tsbernie@earthlink.net
> >
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 10:17 AM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: gap seal
>
>
>> Guys,
>> Just a thought -- if you are still covering, you can do like I did
>> and
>> use fabric. I did this on the ailerons and elevators. The big
>> disadvantage being you have to cut the fabric to remove them.
>> Regards, Tom Bernie
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>>
>> On Sep 19, 2009, at 8:54 AM, Gene & Tammy wrote:
>>
>>> >
>>>
>>> Gardiner, I haven't seen Jack's gap seals (knowing Jack I'm sure
>>> they look great) however you might consider using "Sign" vinyl for
>>> gap seals. Buy your vinyl from a sign shop (I was able to find a
>>> color that matched my plane's color). Cut the vinyl into strips and
>>> then remove the backing from half the width of each strip. Place
>>> the glue sides of the two strips together and you end up having one
>>> strip with a sticky side on one half of each side. That way you can
>>> stick the strip to the top of the stabilizer, thread it thru the
>>> slot and stick it to the bottom of the elevator. Ends up looking
>>> great and lasts about forever.
>>> I've used Duct tape before and I do like this better. Jack may have
>>> had better results and I'm sure he'll give a us a good update.
>>> Gene
>>> N502R
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "airlion" <airlion@bellsouth.net>
>>> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>>> Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 6:24 PM
>>> Subject: Pietenpol-List: gap seal
>>>
>>>
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> To Jack phillips. Jack, on your elevator gap seal did you put duck
>>>> tape on the top or bottom or both sides? Also, did you gap seal
>>>> the verticle stab. and rudder too? Cheers, Gardiner Mason
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>> 07:49:00
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> 06:03:00
>
>
Message 2
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Mark, it certainly looks like a crack. With it being in the middle of the
spar, I'd be hesitant to use it. Every time you find yourself flying in
turbulence you'll be wondering if that spar will hold.
Your options are:
1. Try to determine if it is just a scratch - hopefully it is, and you can
use it without worry
2. Try to get AS&S to replace it (good luck)
3. Cut it up into smaller pieces for use elsewhere in the project. If it
is a 1" thick spar, you might be able to get some longeron material out of
it (will require scarf joints unless your spar was as long as a longeron)
One other possibility exists. If it is truly in the middle (and I'm
assuming you are making a 3-piece wing), it will fall about where the lift
struts attach. There are heavy 1/8" plywood doublers on both sides of the
spar there. If you make those doublers longer than the plans require,
spanning maybe a foot of spar on each side, and add doublers on the top and
bottom edge of the spar, it might be capable of sustaining the loads. You'd
want to run a quick stress analysis to make sure it would suffice, but my
feeling is that it would probably be okay. I'd still try option (2) first.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of K5YAC
Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 9:31 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Opinions Please
I know this is a long shot, but I'm trying to decide what I am looking at.
I received my wood package from AS&S back in July, and opened it all up
shortly after. It all looked to be in good condition, although I did not
perform a thorough inspection until a few weeks ago. Everything I expected
to be there was indeed there, an I didn't notice any blemishes or damage. I
hung my spars and several ribs a few weeks ago and haven't done much since
because of the weather (rain).
Ok, ok... I'm getting to it... with a break in the weather, I went to the
hangar today to do some work and found what looks like a crack. I didn't
notice this before, but it was pretty obvious today. It actually looks lie
someone was careless with a blade (not me, I'm sure of that... was very
careful). It extends from the top or the spar, around the corner to the
front side of the spar, across the grain. I've seen damage like this when
being careless with RC model wood and the like, but I know I've been very
careful with this stuff thus far, and the only time I used a blade was to
carefully remove the tape from the bundles. I placed the spar on the edge
of my work bench (scratch down) and applied pressure with my hand. The
scratch didn't seem to expand or open under pressure (notice I am calling it
a scratch now).
Anyhow, I wonder if it is just a scratch that wasn't very noticeable a few
weeks ago, but after a couple weeks of rain and humidity at looks worse than
it is. I can't tell for sure, and I'm sure that it is difficult to know by
looking at photos, but...
Opinions? Tips? Suggestions? Anything telling, like split against the
grain, etc? It looks like it may just be a shallow scratch that I may be
able to remove with light sanding, but it is hard to tell for sure, and I
hate to destroy the evidence before I get some expert eyes on the subject.
Thanks for looking.
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263901#263901
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p9190051r_624.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p9190052r_120.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p9190053r_345.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p9190054r_922.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p9190060r_303.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p9190064r_195.jpg
Message 3
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| Subject: | A few questions for Kurt Shipman about his Piet |
Good morning everyone,
We had a good day yesterday; we were able to get out and work on the
airplane for a while. We removed all the nails from the bottom sheet of
plywood on the fuselage. Next step is to get out to Dad's and pick up the
router, and we'll get that thing off the fuselage!
I came up with a few questions for Kurt Shipman about his Pietenpol....so
these are directed at Kurt, or anyone that has spoken with him that may know
the answers as well.
1. Can you provide some details on your fuel tank? How many gallons does it
hold? Did you weld it up, or did you have it welded up locally (I'd be
interested to find out where, as we are sort of in the area). How did you
arrive at your particular design?
2. Have you calculated what your GPH fuel burn is, or what your endurance is
on a full tank?
3. What empty weight did your Piet come in at?
4. Engine mount....did you go with the Pietenpol designed mount, a version
of William's basic mount as shown in the conversion manual, etc?
5. What models of instruments did you use? (e.g. airspeed, altimeter, RPM,
engine instruments)
Thanks, and have a good Sunday!
Ryan
Message 4
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Definitely looks like a crack. I would not use it for a spar as that
crack would probably just get bigger and bigger until it split off. If
they won't replace it you might be able to cut it out and splice it or
use it someplace else. It probably was a very tiny crack to begin with
and the variation in humidity and temps have already cracked it further.
It will just continue cracking unless you repair it.
Rodney
On Sat, Sep 19, 2009 at 9:31 PM , K5YAC wrote:
> I know this is a long shot, but I'm trying to decide what I am looking
> at. I received my wood package from AS&S back in July, and opened it
> all up shortly after. It all looked to be in good condition, although
> I did not perform a thorough inspection until a few weeks ago.
> Everything I expected to be there was indeed there, an I didn't notice
> any blemishes or damage. I hung my spars and several ribs a few weeks
> ago and haven't done much since because of the weather (rain).
>
> Ok, ok... I'm getting to it... with a break in the weather, I went to
> the hangar today to do some work and found what looks like a crack. I
> didn't notice this before, but it was pretty obvious today. It
> actually looks lie someone was careless with a blade (not me, I'm sure
> of that... was very careful). It extends from the top or the spar,
> around the corner to the front side of the spar, across the grain.
> I've seen damage like this when being careless with RC model wood and
> the like, but I know I've been very careful with this stuff thus far,
> and the only time I used a blade was to carefully remove the tape from
> the bundles. I placed the spar on the edge of my work bench (scratch
> down) and applied pressure with my hand. The scratch didn't seem to
> expand or open under pressure (notice I am calling it a scratch now).
> Anyhow, I wonder if it is just a scratch that wasn't very noticeable a
> few weeks ago, but after a couple weeks of rain and humidity at looks
> worse than it is. I can't tell for sure, and I'm sure that it is
> difficult to know by looking at photos, but...
>
> Opinions? Tips? Suggestions? Anything telling, like split against
> the grain, etc? It looks like it may just be a shallow scratch that I
> may be able to remove with light sanding, but it is hard to tell for
> sure, and I hate to destroy the evidence before I get some expert eyes
> on the subject.
> Thanks for looking.
>
> --------
> Mark - working on wings
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263901#263901
>
>
> Attachments:
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p9190051r_624.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p9190052r_120.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p9190053r_345.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p9190054r_922.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p9190060r_303.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p9190064r_195.jpg
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Opinions Please |
It sure looks like a crack to me. Being in the center of the spar, that
looks to be the are of highest stress, even with the doublers. I'd try
for a replacement first. Otherwise as others have mentioned, every time
you hit some turbulence, or occasionally at 02:00 AM it will cause an
anxiety attack. Its really a shame because it looks like an otherwise
beautiful board. As Jack mentioned, I'm sure you could find other
places to use it such as longerons. If Aircraft Spruce will replace it
I doubt they will want it back.
Ben Charvet
http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/photo.php?pid=434359&id=1660958452
K5YAC wrote:
>
> I've attached 5 photos. I'm a web user, so I'm not sure how they come across
on the e-mail side. I assume... attached?
>
> --------
> Mark - working on wings
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263928#263928
>
>
>
Message 6
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Beautiful ship and great job! Really enjoyed following your build. This
would be a great site for anyone building their own Piet. Looking forward
to hearing your first flight reports!
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: "Thomas Bernie" <tsbernie@earthlink.net>
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 7:20 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: gap seal
> <tsbernie@earthlink.net>
>
> Thanks Gene,
> I'm almost done -- just paint cowling and make wing struts. Looks
> like spring flying here in Gloucester, Mass. Here is a link to over
> 1000 photos of the 4 year project.
>
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/berniejr/sets/72157617340470074/
>
>
> Tom
> N666TB
>
>
> On Sep 19, 2009, at 11:55 AM, Gene & Tammy wrote:
>
>> <zharvey@bentoncountycable.net
>> >
>>
>> Tom, your wings look great and I love the color! How far along on
>> your build are you? More photos? I bought my flying Piet, I didn't
>> build it and the only reason I not flying it today is I injured my
>> leg. It'll be a week or so before I'll be able to fly again and I'm
>> really tired of setting around. The weather here is slowly cooling
>> down and I'm excited about the upcoming winter flying. Only wish we
>> got more snow here so I could outfit the Piet with skies.
>> Gene Grounded in Tennessee
>> N502R
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Bernie"
>> <tsbernie@earthlink.net
>> >
>> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 10:17 AM
>> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: gap seal
>>
>>
>>> Guys,
>>> Just a thought -- if you are still covering, you can do like I did
>>> and
>>> use fabric. I did this on the ailerons and elevators. The big
>>> disadvantage being you have to cut the fabric to remove them.
>>> Regards, Tom Bernie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>>
>>> On Sep 19, 2009, at 8:54 AM, Gene & Tammy wrote:
>>>
>>>> <zharvey@bentoncountycable.net
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> Gardiner, I haven't seen Jack's gap seals (knowing Jack I'm sure
>>>> they look great) however you might consider using "Sign" vinyl for
>>>> gap seals. Buy your vinyl from a sign shop (I was able to find a
>>>> color that matched my plane's color). Cut the vinyl into strips and
>>>> then remove the backing from half the width of each strip. Place
>>>> the glue sides of the two strips together and you end up having one
>>>> strip with a sticky side on one half of each side. That way you can
>>>> stick the strip to the top of the stabilizer, thread it thru the
>>>> slot and stick it to the bottom of the elevator. Ends up looking
>>>> great and lasts about forever.
>>>> I've used Duct tape before and I do like this better. Jack may have
>>>> had better results and I'm sure he'll give a us a good update.
>>>> Gene
>>>> N502R
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "airlion" <airlion@bellsouth.net>
>>>> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>>>> Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 6:24 PM
>>>> Subject: Pietenpol-List: gap seal
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>> To Jack phillips. Jack, on your elevator gap seal did you put duck
>>>>> tape on the top or bottom or both sides? Also, did you gap seal
>>>>> the verticle stab. and rudder too? Cheers, Gardiner Mason
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>> 07:49:00
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> 06:03:00
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
17:50:00
Message 7
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| Subject: | How will the vendor do? |
Number 2. is a smart move for Aircraft Spruce.
I make my living in the customer service business and I really enjoy seeing a company
do it right. Not many really understand good customer service. So I especially
enjoy seeing a company get an opportunity like this.
this is a fantastic opportunity for a company that is trying to "do it right".
Sadly, showing you're good at customer service is usually an "isolated" experience
between the company and just that one customer. Not much widespread benefit
since people usually only tell all their friends about the bad stuff. Not
this time. This is a public forum with a very targeted customer exposure.
A dream come true for any company wishing to stand out.
Technically, he has probably had this wood too long and they probably don't actually
need to replace it. I don't know.
But they can't lose by replacing it. Even if there is a question as to whether
this "crack" was there when it was shipped or if Mark is somehow responsible
(I have been to his shop and this is not his fault).
This will be interesting.
By the way, my experiences with Aircraft Spruce have been satisfactory. In fact,
I got a tube of EZ Turn sealant and some blue flexible and aluminun fuel line
and a Curtis quick drain valve (and a few other odds and ends) from them in
the mail just yesterday. I've already welded the aluminum tubing into my tank
(it's now an internal vent line) and installed the quick drain valve. Progress!
jm
-----Original Message-----
>From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
>Sent: Sep 20, 2009 7:58 AM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Opinions Please
>
>
>Mark, it certainly looks like a crack. With it being in the middle of the
>spar, I'd be hesitant to use it. Every time you find yourself flying in
>turbulence you'll be wondering if that spar will hold.
>
>Your options are:
>
>1. Try to determine if it is just a scratch - hopefully it is, and you can
>use it without worry
>
>2. Try to get AS&S to replace it (good luck)
>
>3. Cut it up into smaller pieces for use elsewhere in the project. If it
>is a 1" thick spar, you might be able to get some longeron material out of
>it (will require scarf joints unless your spar was as long as a longeron)
>
>One other possibility exists. If it is truly in the middle (and I'm
>assuming you are making a 3-piece wing), it will fall about where the lift
>struts attach. There are heavy 1/8" plywood doublers on both sides of the
>spar there. If you make those doublers longer than the plans require,
>spanning maybe a foot of spar on each side, and add doublers on the top and
>bottom edge of the spar, it might be capable of sustaining the loads. You'd
>want to run a quick stress analysis to make sure it would suffice, but my
>feeling is that it would probably be okay. I'd still try option (2) first.
>
>Jack Phillips
>NX899JP
>Raleigh, NC
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of K5YAC
>Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 9:31 PM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Opinions Please
>
>
>I know this is a long shot, but I'm trying to decide what I am looking at.
>I received my wood package from AS&S back in July, and opened it all up
>shortly after. It all looked to be in good condition, although I did not
>perform a thorough inspection until a few weeks ago. Everything I expected
>to be there was indeed there, an I didn't notice any blemishes or damage. I
>hung my spars and several ribs a few weeks ago and haven't done much since
>because of the weather (rain).
>
>Ok, ok... I'm getting to it... with a break in the weather, I went to the
>hangar today to do some work and found what looks like a crack. I didn't
>notice this before, but it was pretty obvious today. It actually looks lie
>someone was careless with a blade (not me, I'm sure of that... was very
>careful). It extends from the top or the spar, around the corner to the
>front side of the spar, across the grain. I've seen damage like this when
>being careless with RC model wood and the like, but I know I've been very
>careful with this stuff thus far, and the only time I used a blade was to
>carefully remove the tape from the bundles. I placed the spar on the edge
>of my work bench (scratch down) and applied pressure with my hand. The
>scratch didn't seem to expand or open under pressure (notice I am calling it
>a scratch now).
>
>Anyhow, I wonder if it is just a scratch that wasn't very noticeable a few
>weeks ago, but after a couple weeks of rain and humidity at looks worse than
>it is. I can't tell for sure, and I'm sure that it is difficult to know by
>looking at photos, but...
>
>Opinions? Tips? Suggestions? Anything telling, like split against the
>grain, etc? It looks like it may just be a shallow scratch that I may be
>able to remove with light sanding, but it is hard to tell for sure, and I
>hate to destroy the evidence before I get some expert eyes on the subject.
>
>Thanks for looking.
>
>--------
>Mark - working on wings
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263901#263901
>
>
>Attachments:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com//files/p9190051r_624.jpg
>http://forums.matronics.com//files/p9190052r_120.jpg
>http://forums.matronics.com//files/p9190053r_345.jpg
>http://forums.matronics.com//files/p9190054r_922.jpg
>http://forums.matronics.com//files/p9190060r_303.jpg
>http://forums.matronics.com//files/p9190064r_195.jpg
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Opinions Please |
My suspicions are being confirmed. I know it is hard to tell for sure, but since
there is no way of knowing the extent of the damage (short of an MRI) I am
inclined to replace it, one way or another.
I am fortunate to have Roger White and other knowledgeable folks in my chapter...
I may ask a couple of them to stop by before the meeting tomorrow night and
have a look, just as a last ditch effort at ideas and suggestions. Ahem! Jim,
I said meeting tomorrow night. Ha ha! I know, it's a long drive.
I appreciate the input. I'll certainly be offering the photos to AS&S for consideration
and their recommendation. Meanwhile, I'll grab one of the spars intended
for the other wing panel and press on. Hopefully I'll have a replacement
in the shop before I need to frame up the other half.
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263954#263954
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: How will the vendor do? |
I agree with you Jim... I've had "ok" service thus far with AS&S, but this will
be a great opportunity for them to redeem themselves, and perhaps repair relations
with at least part of this group. As I've mentioned in other posts, I was
not very happy with their estimated vs actual shipping times on my wood order
(more than twice as long), and ~10% of my capstrip order was twisted or badly
bowed.
I'll give them a chance to take a look at this damage. I too thought that a July
order might be a bit to long ago to consider their assistance, but as another
fellow pointed out yesterday, it isn't that long ago when you consider how
long these things take to build. Some of this material may sit here untouched
for a couple of years. I do see your point though, whereas it has had plenty
of time to sit around and potentially be damaged. Not the case here, I am pretty
certain of that. I'll be sure to include photos of my wood storage area
to accompany my claim. They can at least see that the parts weren't just thrown
in the corner.
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263955#263955
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Opinions Please |
Yes, I know...EAA meeting tomorrow evening!
And I'll be in Rapid City, SD this week. :-( Not a bad place to be at all but..it
ain't home!
But hey, a LOT of Pietenpol building in Northeastern Oklahoma got done this past
weekend!
-----Original Message-----
>From: K5YAC <hangar10@cox.net>
>Sent: Sep 20, 2009 11:04 AM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Opinions Please
>
>
>My suspicions are being confirmed. I know it is hard to tell for sure, but since
there is no way of knowing the extent of the damage (short of an MRI) I am
inclined to replace it, one way or another.
>
>I am fortunate to have Roger White and other knowledgeable folks in my chapter...
I may ask a couple of them to stop by before the meeting tomorrow night and
have a look, just as a last ditch effort at ideas and suggestions. Ahem! Jim,
I said meeting tomorrow night. Ha ha! I know, it's a long drive.
>
>I appreciate the input. I'll certainly be offering the photos to AS&S for consideration
and their recommendation. Meanwhile, I'll grab one of the spars intended
for the other wing panel and press on. Hopefully I'll have a replacement
in the shop before I need to frame up the other half.
>
>--------
>Mark - working on wings
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263954#263954
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Mike Cuy's drawings |
I was poking around through the archives this morning, trying to see if
there was any mention of sketches that Mike C. had made of his fuel tank
installation. I thought I had viewed them on the net at some point, but I
believe they are also on the DVD, so I wasn't sure. I found a post from Feb
'01 where Carl Loar mentions putting drawings that Mike had sent him up on
his website. Unfortunately that site is long gone off the internets. Just
for the heck of it I looked up Carl's old site address on the Internet
Archive's 'Wayback Machine'; lo and behold I found an archived copy of his
site with those drawings. There are a couple fuel tanks sketches, a trim
system sketch, leading/trailing edge cuts, etc.
I took the liberty of posting them up on my Flickr acct.; you can find them
here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rmueller23/sets/72157622417363962/
Mike, I am assuming this is not a problem, as these drawings were made
publicly available on Carl's site before. If it is, just let me know.
Have a good day!
Ryan
Message 12
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| Subject: | Upper motor mount/wing brace question |
I'm in the final assembly stages, and have a question for the group. I
made my upper motor mount braces per the plans, and drilled all the
holes except the motor mount hole as 3/16 for AN-3 bolts. I've made
some temporary wing braces (I'll wait to make the permanent ones after
weight and balance). The plans seem to call for an AN-3 bolt on the
motor mount end, and that seems a little light. What have you guys used?
Ben Charvet
still hoping to fly this year
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: How will the vendor do? |
Mark, In the past I have delt directly with Jim Irwn (owner of AS&S) on
several problems and have found him extremely cooperative and even thou it
may have taken several e-mails to get my point across, he always came thru.
If it were me, the first person that said "no" to me, I would ask to speak
to Jim Irwn directly. I use to have his e-mail address but can't seem to
find it right now. If I find it I will forward it to you, if you wish.
Gene in rainy Tennessee
N502R
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I concur, it looks like a crack to me.- Possibly caused during the planin
g of the edge, by a jointer.- I have done that on cabinets by feeding the
wood with too much speed,(or a dull cutting knife)-the blade catches the
grain and splits it.- Send it back, or use it elsewhere in the airframe.
- As long as the crack is not in pieces cut from it it will be fine for u
se in the tail etc.
-
Shad
-
P.S. A.S.S. should make it right.- They offered to help us with the carb
heat box that broke apart, but we just welded it back togeather, instead of
missing out on another month of flying, waiting for all hassle of shipping
and turn around time.=0A=0A=0A
Message 15
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| Subject: | Upper motor mount/wing brace question |
Ben I think I used AN4's at both ends
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Charvet
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 12:59 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Upper motor mount/wing brace question
I'm in the final assembly stages, and have a question for the group. I
made my upper motor mount braces per the plans, and drilled all the
holes except the motor mount hole as 3/16 for AN-3 bolts. I've made
some temporary wing braces (I'll wait to make the permanent ones after
weight and balance). The plans seem to call for an AN-3 bolt on the
motor mount end, and that seems a little light. What have you guys used?
Ben Charvet
still hoping to fly this year
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Opinions Please |
I was back at the hangar today making wood shavings when along came our resident
A&P/IA to take a look at my spar. I spoke to him about it yesterday, so he
brought a bright light and a magnifying lens. No doubt about it, it is cracked.
He advised me not to use the spar and said that he would back me up with AS&S
if they don't seem open to helping me replace it.
Shad, he too thought that it looked like damage caused during the planing process.
The spar also has a slight bend to it, centering right about the area of
the fracture. It really isn't too noticeable at a glance, and I may have just
thought that it was sagging under it's own weight a bit when on the wing jig,
but we turned it over and it was still there (sagging upward). It is very slight,
but noticeable when looking down the length.
Clif, you too are correct in stating that the crack goes further to the left than
I originally indicated. I didn't notice it yesterday, but we followed it along
the grain for several inches. Good eye to catch that in the photo.
When I received my order, some of the packaging was damaged (torn open) on the
plywood package. Looked like someone drug forklift forks across it. When I opened
the package there was a very slight scuff on my high dollar plywood... not
happy about that, but it was so slight that I figured I'd just sand it off
by hand. It just makes me wonder how the rest of the occurred, and if there is
any other damage, I hope I catch it.
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264001#264001
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: How will the vendor do? |
Thanks for the info Gene. Let's see how they do tomorrow. I'll keep you guys
posted.
Mark in sunny Oklahoma (
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264002#264002
Message 18
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| Subject: | Mike Cuy's sketches |
Dear Ryan,
Thank you for not only finding those Carl Loar postings but for putting them on
Flickr. Last I heard is that Carl was selling his Corvair powered Pietenpol
due to poor health issues. Bill Poiry (spelling ?) near Toledo was Carl's mentor
and best I could tell Carl was a stunt double of Chuck Gantzer but was
a very heavy smoker so I'm not sure if Carl is with us anymore. It did not sound
good for Carl the last I spoke with him and Carl was probably about
my age-- maybe a little younger--- mid 40's by now perhaps ?
Bottom line is that I have a folder of sketch-scans that I can forward to Ryan
or whomever wants to put them up (like marriage--for better, or for worse)
on the web. I don't want a dime for them but if you can benefit from these Tony
Bingelis-inspired drawings and sketches I will forward that photo folder
to whom ever wants to post it or needs it.
Also-- I did a walk-around Pietnepol photo thing for Mike Perez here at work and
THAT IS ALSO available ---the whole folder for anyone who wants to
post it on Flickr or whatever other photo web posting site you might prefer. I
have one folder called Piet Pics and another called Piet Sketches.
You tell me what you want and I will send it to you. ( via-email only--if you
want a CD THAT will cost you something. )
Mike C.
I want everyone to have access to my photos and sketches free of charge so this
is not a money making offer--- I have made enough gas and oil
money off of my goofy video to help defray the costs of those things.
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Opinions Please |
Mark, one other option, and not one to consider until all other options have
been expended, would it be possible to cut out the damage and scarf the
remaining good parts to make a serviceable spar? No one wants this in a new
build, only as a repair, but as Jack pointed out, the splice might be in the
general location of the lift strut ply face plates and not be that difficult
a repair. Of course this is taking into account that you had the foresight
to order your spar blanks somewhat longer than required. However it works
out, I wish you the best outcome possible. This is a reality check big
time.
On Sun, Sep 20, 2009 at 4:56 PM, K5YAC <hangar10@cox.net> wrote:
>
> I was back at the hangar today making wood shavings when along came our
> resident A&P/IA to take a look at my spar. I spoke to him about it
> yesterday, so he brought a bright light and a magnifying lens. No doubt
> about it, it is cracked. He advised me not to use the spar and said that he
> would back me up with AS&S if they don't seem open to helping me replace it.
>
> Shad, he too thought that it looked like damage caused during the planing
> process. The spar also has a slight bend to it, centering right about the
> area of the fracture. It really isn't too noticeable at a glance, and I may
> have just thought that it was sagging under it's own weight a bit when on
> the wing jig, but we turned it over and it was still there (sagging upward).
> It is very slight, but noticeable when looking down the length.
>
> Clif, you too are correct in stating that the crack goes further to the
> left than I originally indicated. I didn't notice it yesterday, but we
> followed it along the grain for several inches. Good eye to catch that in
> the photo.
>
> When I received my order, some of the packaging was damaged (torn open) on
> the plywood package. Looked like someone drug forklift forks across it.
> When I opened the package there was a very slight scuff on my high dollar
> plywood... not happy about that, but it was so slight that I figured I'd
> just sand it off by hand. It just makes me wonder how the rest of the
> occurred, and if there is any other damage, I hope I catch it.
>
> --------
> Mark - working on wings
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264001#264001
>
>
--
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or
not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy." --British
publisher and writer Ernest Benn (1875-1954)
Message 20
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| Subject: | cable waging info/data |
In an old EAA publication called "Aircraft Homebuilding Tips volume 1 file number
6" , on page 34, published in 1967, is a good chart showing the various measurements
for 1/16" to 5/32" nicropress sleeves including the min/max compression
specs for each size.
1/16" min .190 max .195
3/32" min .255 max .265
1/8" min .343 max .353
5/32" min .380 max .390
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Opinions Please |
Yes, the spars did come in a bit oversize (14'), but I've already already cut this
one (and another one) to 13' 5", which is what I needed.
No, I'm not really interested in making splices and such... I am building a new
airplane, I paid for new materials and one way or another I intend to use a good,
non-repaired spar.
I will be paying very close attention to the rest of the parts. I hate this feeling
of uncertainty. Reality check indeed.
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264046#264046
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Opinions Please |
Looks a little weird, the stress line cuts across
the growth rings, I would have to ask for a refund
and as far as a splice I would trust a proper splice
more than the flaw, this may have happened when the tree was cut down it was
tortured a few minutes
as the tree was coming down and hitting the ground.
I've heard of this before.
The grouth rings seem well with in the 1 to 16 run
out tolerance.
Ask that they send you a new spar maybe you can
use the rest for not as critical parts.
Russell
On Sun, Sep 20, 2009 at 8:55 PM, K5YAC <hangar10@cox.net> wrote:
>
> Yes, the spars did come in a bit oversize (14'), but I've already already
> cut this one (and another one) to 13' 5", which is what I needed.
>
> No, I'm not really interested in making splices and such... I am building a
> new airplane, I paid for new materials and one way or another I intend to
> use a good, non-repaired spar.
>
> I will be paying very close attention to the rest of the parts. I hate
> this feeling of uncertainty. Reality check indeed.
>
> --------
> Mark - working on wings
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264046#264046
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Marquart Charger |
The firewall looks like a polished mirrow, I believe he said 22 year plus o
r
minus a year or two to complete.
Russell
On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 1:27 PM, Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead@hotmail.com>wr
ote:
> Jack,
>
> Had a similar experience when I got a little time in an AT-6 with Dick
> Schwab. People in NE ohio might remember him. When doing the preflight
and
> checking the oil I asked how much should be in there? He said 8-10. I sa
id
> quarts? he said no, gallons.
>
> On another note when we got in and took off he told me to help him watch
> for traffic as he had promised a fly by. When he asked if I was ready I
> looked down at the airport. We were only about 1/2 mile from the end of
the
> runway and at 200agl. I said sure. He pointed the thing down at about
> 50deg and when we went screaming past the terminal bldg we were doing 260
mph
> (well past redline). I asked him if the a.s. indicator was accurate. he
> said not to worry as they used to dive them to 320 all the time during WW
II!
>
> He let me fly it all the back to Kent. On of the most exciting flights
> I've had. Unless you count the engine failure and 2 inflight fires and t
he
> rock I hit on floats at about 25kts. But, that's not the knid of excitem
ent
> I like;-)
>
> Doug Dever
> In beautiful Stow Ohio
>
>
> ------------------------------
> From: pietflyr@bellsouth.net
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Marquart Charger
> Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 12:02:46 -0400
>
>
> Talking about the fuel flow in the Beech 18 reminds me of the time when
I
> was a young line boy at the airport, back in the 60=92s. A DC-3 came in
for
> fuel, and as I was up on the wing refueling it, the pilot asked me to che
ck
> the oil in the right engine. I found the door on the nacelle and unscrew
ed
> the dipstick. There was a mark labelled =9324=94 and one at 22, and the
oil
> level was right in between them. I yelled down to the pilot =93You=92ve
got 23
> quarts.=94
>
>
> He said =93Quarts? You mean gallons. Goa ahead and put another gallon i
n
> it.=94 Thus it is in the world of radial engines.
>
>
> Jack Phillips
>
> NX899JP
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *John Hofmann
> *Sent:* Friday, September 18, 2009 11:32 AM
> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Marquart Charger
>
>
> Yes, that is Jeff Moore from Anderson, Indiana. He flew his Hatz up to
> Brodhead with his daughter (she was in the seat next to me). He has a bla
ck
> and yellow Hatz that is always at the flyin before Oshkosh. Next to Jeff
was
> Diane Gilmore, wife of Mark (Charger builder). I think we were both in sh
ock
> at the fuel flow. Fritz Badertscher was in the right seat. Fritz is a dia
ry
> farmer a couple of miles away and was one of the Brodhead Airport founder
s.
> His hangar was the first one on the airport (legend says). Everyone who h
as
> been to Brodhead knows of his plane. Fritz has the red Cub that lives in
the
> open tee hangar next to the pavilion. I like Fritz. He is properly sized,
> like me. In fact he makes me look tall. Steve Thomas was in the left seat
.
> He and his wife Tina own the Poplar Grove operation.
>
>
> Do not arcive.
>
>
> John Hofmann
>
> Vice-President, Information Technology
>
> The Rees Group, Inc.
>
> 2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800
>
> Madison, WI 53718
>
> Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
>
> Fax: 608.443.2474
>
> Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com
>
>
> On Sep 18, 2009, at 8:15 AM, Jim Markle wrote:
>
>
> jim_markle@mindspring.com>
>
> That video is awesome. I gotta ask though, is that someone you know
> sitting in the rear seat on the Beech ride? If so, next time you talk to
> them please ask how the heck someone takes THAT ride WITHOUT a huge smile
on
> their face????
>
> That was neat, thanks for sharing.
>
> thanks
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: John Hofmann
> Sent: Sep 17, 2009 8:55 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Marquart Charger
>
> Hey Jack,
> I ran the bits through iMovie and uploaded it to my mobile me account. It
> was easy. Contact me offline if you want more detail.
> do not ======================
> --> http://www.matr &n -
> &nbs -->
> <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
> http://www.matronics.com/co===============
=
>
>
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