Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:35 AM - Re: Re: laminating struts (Clif Dawson)
2. 04:33 AM - Re: laminating struts (Jerry Dotson)
3. 05:36 AM - Re: Re: laminating struts (Lloyd Smith)
4. 05:57 AM - Aluminum struts (helspersew@aol.com)
5. 08:03 AM - Re: Aluminum struts (Pietn38b@aol.com)
6. 08:04 AM - Re: Re: laminating struts (Dan Yocum)
7. 08:19 AM - Re: Aluminum struts (bryan green)
8. 09:02 AM - Sun n Fun (Dick N)
9. 09:13 AM - Re: Sun n Fun (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
10. 11:03 AM - Re: Not your father's Ambroid and balsa model airplanes anymore (Ben Charvet)
11. 11:44 AM - Re: Not your father's Ambroid and balsa model airplanes anymore (Wayne Bressler)
12. 12:22 PM - Re: Not your father's Ambroid and balsa model airplanes anymore (Roman Bukolt)
13. 01:03 PM - Re: Sun n Fun (greg menoche)
14. 01:03 PM - Re: Sky Scout... (Ray Krause)
15. 01:03 PM - getting kids interested in ARF's in the 1960's (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
16. 01:13 PM - "Red Betsy" the movie (Barry Davis)
17. 01:22 PM - Re: getting kids interested in ARF's in the 1960's (brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com)
18. 01:22 PM - Re: Sun n Fun (Ryan Mueller)
19. 01:22 PM - Re: Finally making sawdust and progress! (Rick Holland)
20. 01:25 PM - Re: getting kids interested in ARF's in the 1960's (Rick Holland)
21. 01:31 PM - "Red Betsy" the movie----Pietenpol scene right up front in YouTube video (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
22. 01:37 PM - Cox pt-19, off topic (shad bell)
23. 01:44 PM - Re: "Red Betsy" the movie----Pietenpol scene right up front in YouTube video (Ryan Mueller)
24. 01:44 PM - Re: Finally making sawdust and progress! (Wayne Bressler)
25. 01:47 PM - Re: Not your father's Ambroid and balsa model airplanes anymore (Lloyd Smith)
26. 01:55 PM - Cox control line models and night fires (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
27. 03:05 PM - Re: Cox control line models and night fires (Mike)
28. 03:22 PM - Re: Not your father's Ambroid and balsa model airplanes anymore (Dave and Connie)
29. 03:44 PM - Re: Cox control line models and night fires (Rick Holland)
30. 03:53 PM - Re: Finally making sawdust and progress! (Jack Phillips)
31. 04:06 PM - Re: "Red Betsy" the movie----Pietenpol scene right up front in Y (Pieti Lowell)
32. 04:23 PM - Re: Cox control line models and night fires (Jack Phillips)
33. 04:24 PM - Re: "Red Betsy" the movie----Pietenpol scene right up front in YouTube video (helspersew@aol.com)
34. 04:44 PM - Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder (helspersew@aol.com)
35. 04:44 PM - struts (Douwe Blumberg)
36. 06:02 PM - (Ben Ramler)
37. 06:47 PM - Re: Finally making sawdust and progress! (Jack Phillips)
38. 06:50 PM - Re: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder (Jack Phillips)
39. 07:03 PM - Re: Finally making sawdust and progress! (Wayne Bressler)
40. 07:03 PM - Re: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder (airlion)
41. 07:29 PM - Re: Sun n Fun (Dick N)
42. 08:01 PM - Re: Sky Scout... (Gary Boothe)
43. 08:20 PM - Re: Sky Scout... (Ray Krause)
44. 08:30 PM - Re: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder (VAHOWDY@aol.com)
45. 09:01 PM - Re: Dillsburg Areo (Ray Krause)
46. 09:11 PM - Re: Sky Scout... (Ray Krause)
47. 09:19 PM - Re: Larry Williams, Aluminum struts (Ray Krause)
48. 11:11 PM - Red Betsy - on to Boscobel (Gerry Holland)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: laminating struts |
This is great! All these new Piets coming along with
wood struts!
I had this link from a while back for Aluminum
streamline tubing from Skytek. It's not them anymore!
Clif
"In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the
learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with
a world that no longer exists." (Eric Hoffer)
> Jerry,
>
> I used T-88 & some Resorcinol, but no fancy clamping jigs. > Gary Boothe
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: laminating struts |
My 'varnish' is ALSO Min-Wax Urethane Spar Varnish. I like the stuff. Staining
makes me nervous. I had a pine project ruined when I stained it. The soft grain
looked "muddy".
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
Ribs and tailfeathers done
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287945#287945
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: laminating struts |
When staining softwoods, apply a very thin coat of varnish first to seal
open grain, lightly sand, stain as usual, then varnish.
On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 7:33 AM, Jerry Dotson <jdotson@erec.net> wrote:
>
> My 'varnish' is ALSO Min-Wax Urethane Spar Varnish. I like the stuff.
> Staining makes me nervous. I had a pine project ruined when I stained it.
> The soft grain looked "muddy".
>
> --------
> Jerry Dotson
> 59 Daniel Johnson Rd
> Baker, FL 32531
>
> Started building NX510JD July, 2009
> Ribs and tailfeathers done
> using Lycoming O-235
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287945#287945
>
>
--
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or
not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy." --British
publisher and writer Ernest Benn (1875-1954)
Message 4
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Hi All,
I used the alum struts like Larry Williams. The aluminum insert is 7075 al
uminum that I got from Mcmastercarr.com. The bottom fitting (not shown) is
the 7075 insert, that I tapped for J-3 forked wing strut fitting (ACS or
Wag Aero?). Inserts are bolted through the strut with 1/4" bolts.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Aluminum struts |
All
These are done the same way I did mine in 1995. I have taken mine apart a
couple of times to check for corrosion, all looks good. I got my strut
material from a kit manufacturer in Kansas. Rans Aircraft I think. At the
time the cost was about 1/4th the cost of making them from 4130.
Jim Ballew
Pietenpol N38B
Collinsville, Ok.
In a message dated 2/24/2010 8:00:01 A.M. Central Standard Time,
helspersew@aol.com writes:
Hi All,
I used the alum struts like Larry Williams. The aluminum insert is 7075
aluminum that I got from Mcmastercarr.com. The bottom fitting (not shown) is
the 7075 insert, that I tapped for J-3 forked wing strut fitting (ACS or Wag
Aero?). Inserts are bolted through the strut with 1/4" bolts.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: laminating struts |
On 02/24/2010 06:33 AM, Jerry Dotson wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jerry Dotson"<jdotson@erec.net>
>
> My 'varnish' is ALSO Min-Wax Urethane Spar Varnish. I like the stuff. Staining
makes me nervous. I had a pine project ruined when I stained it. The soft grain
looked "muddy".
>
Minwax makes a pre-stain wood conditioner for soft woods. It works well
- I used it on the 0.75mi of Doug Fir I used for trim in the house...
Dan
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Aluminum struts |
What size did you use for the cabanes and struts Jim?
Bryan Green
Elgin SC
----- Original Message -----
From: Pietn38b@aol.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 10:28 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum struts
All
These are done the same way I did mine in 1995. I have taken mine
apart a couple of times to check for corrosion, all looks good. I got
my strut material from a kit manufacturer in Kansas. Rans Aircraft I
think. At the time the cost was about 1/4th the cost of making them from
4130.
Jim Ballew
Pietenpol N38B
Collinsville, Ok.
In a message dated 2/24/2010 8:00:01 A.M. Central Standard Time,
helspersew@aol.com writes:
Hi All,
I used the alum struts like Larry Williams. The aluminum insert is
7075 aluminum that I got from Mcmastercarr.com. The bottom fitting (not
shown) is the 7075 insert, that I tapped for J-3 forked wing strut
fitting (ACS or Wag Aero?). Inserts are bolted through the strut with
1/4" bolts.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
Message 8
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I just finished watching the morning news and it looks like you east
coasters are going to be getting another snow storm. Time to start
packing up and heading for Lakeland, Fl. for Sun and Fun. I have been
told that our Wood work Shop will be back in the indoors where it was 2
years ago. For all who are not familiar, that workshop is kind of the
2nd home of Pietenpol after Brodhead. If anybody needs anything built
for a Pietenpol contact me directly we can do it. Projects on hand for
this year are a prop for Gardiner Mason and if no other projects come
around a fuselage for me and maybe a tail section also. These will be
for my new Sky Scout.
Dick N.
Message 9
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Dick you're building a THIRD Pietenpol by chance ? You mention building
a fuselage for you at SNF.
Maybe that is just a good general woodworking project for the wood tent.
If not, go for it !
Do you still have your 65 hp Continental Pietenpol ?
Mike C.
do not archive
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Not your father's Ambroid and balsa model airplanes |
anymore
That's a pretty neat model, but the availability such inexpensive
alternatives to building this kind of stuff from a kit (or better yet
from plans) eventually really hurts the future of projects like the
Pietenpol. Do remember when you were a kid, the ready to fly plastic
control line airplanes that were available? I never saw one fly very
well, or nearly as well as a kit-built balsa model. When I quit flying
radio control stuff 6 years ago, it was already cheaper to buy a Ready
to Fly airplane than it was to buy the kit, covering, and accessories.
I'm thankful now that my dad was a plans builder of model airplanes, and
passed those skills/inclinations on to me. Hopefully I've passed those
skills on to my sons...
Ben Charvet
On 2/23/2010 8:16 AM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace
Corporation] wrote:
> For $299, model airplane building and flying has made revolutionary
> progress since I was a lad.
> No glow plugs, no messy castor oil Glowfuel, quiet, elegant and check
> out those flashing LED nav lights !
> Mike C.
> do not archive
> _http://www.hobby-lobby.com/b25-overview.htm_
> Scroll down and click on video to play.
> *
>
>
> *
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Not your father's Ambroid and balsa model airplanes |
anymore
Some of the ARF models fly fantastic. Some of the really cheap no-
name junk flies, well.. Like junk.
Building from a kit or from scratch is becoming increasingly rare. We
can see the same things happening in full-scale airplane building.
The RV series is so popular due to the step-by-step nature of it's
assembly. Many of the older plans-built planes are falling into
obscurity.
I will make this one observation: People will build the plane they
want. Regardless if it's plans-built or "quick build". It's the
passion for the design that keeps airplanes like the Pietenpol alive.
Wayne Bressler Jr.
Taildraggers, Inc.
taildraggersinc.com
On Feb 24, 2010, at 2:02 PM, Ben Charvet <bcharvet@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> That's a pretty neat model, but the availability such inexpensive
> alternatives to building this kind of stuff from a kit (or better
> yet from plans) eventually really hurts the future of projects like
> the Pietenpol. Do remember when you were a kid, the ready to fly
> plastic control line airplanes that were available? I never saw one
> fly very well, or nearly as well as a kit-built balsa model. When I
> quit flying radio control stuff 6 years ago, it was already cheaper
> to buy a Ready to Fly airplane than it was to buy the kit, covering,
> and accessories. I'm thankful now that my dad was a plans builder
> of model airplanes, and passed those skills/inclinations on to me.
> Hopefully I've passed those skills on to my sons...
>
> Ben Charvet
>
>
> On 2/23/2010 8:16 AM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace
> Corporation] wrote:
>>
>> For $299, model airplane building and flying has made revolutionary
>> progress since I was a lad.
>>
>> No glow plugs, no messy castor oil Glowfuel, quiet, elegant and check
>> out those flashing LED nav lights !
>>
>> Mike C.
>>
>> do not archive
>>
>>
>> http://www.hobby-lobby.com/b25-overview.htm
>>
>> Scroll down and click on video to play.
>>
>>
>>
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Not your father's Ambroid and balsa model airplanes |
anymore
In 1989 I participated in a Giant Scale RC model event held at EAA.
At that time we were told that that the average age of RC model
builders was over 50 yrs.
That was before ARFs were invented. There was one company in the U.S.
who manufactured an almost ready to fly series of kits. I don't
remember the name but their fuselages were molded plastic and the
wings were plastic covered foam.
On the other hand, I first introduced my 1/4th scale Fleet Biplane
in 1978, the first kit on the market designed to be powered by a chain
saw engine. Over the last 32 yrs. I sold over 5000 of them. Then in
1989 when electrics were catching on, I introduced the 1/6th scale
electric Fleet. Curiously, today, I'm still getting orders for both
sizes. Yes, most of the builders range in age from 50 to 80. This is
with virtually no advertising. The profits from the kits are what
provide the materials for the Piet I'm building. After all it's
basically nothing more then a person controlled 1ft. = 1ft. scale
model airplane. It was interesting that last year, 2009, with the
recession my sales increased 300%. Talking to my customers, most were
laid off and needed a lengthy project to keep them busy.
I do have a website for the curious,
www.conceptmodelsllc.com
On Feb 24, 2010, at 1:02 PM, Ben Charvet wrote:
>
> That's a pretty neat model, but the availability such inexpensive
> alternatives to building this kind of stuff from a kit (or better
> yet from plans) eventually really hurts the future of projects like
> the Pietenpol. Do remember when you were a kid, the ready to fly
> plastic control line airplanes that were available? I never saw one
> fly very well, or nearly as well as a kit-built balsa model. When I
> quit flying radio control stuff 6 years ago, it was already cheaper
> to buy a Ready to Fly airplane than it was to buy the kit, covering,
> and accessories. I'm thankful now that my dad was a plans builder
> of model airplanes, and passed those skills/inclinations on to me.
> Hopefully I've passed those skills on to my sons...
>
> Ben Charvet
>
>
> On 2/23/2010 8:16 AM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace
> Corporation] wrote:
>>
>> For $299, model airplane building and flying has made revolutionary
>> progress since I was a lad.
>>
>> No glow plugs, no messy castor oil Glowfuel, quiet, elegant and check
>> out those flashing LED nav lights !
>>
>> Mike C.
>>
>> do not archive
>>
>>
>> http://www.hobby-lobby.com/b25-overview.htm
>>
>> Scroll down and click on video to play.
>>
>>
>>
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>
>
Message 13
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Dick, any chance of a rudder. Greg Menoche here in DE working on ribs. It would
be a great feeling to know that members at S&F had a part in the completion
of my one day Piet? Thanks.
-----Original Message-----
From: Dick N
Sent: Feb 24, 2010 11:48 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sun n Fun
I just finished watching the morning news and it looks like you east coasters are
going to be getting another snow storm. Time to start packing up and heading
for Lakeland, Fl. for Sun and Fun. I have been told that our Wood work Shop
will be back in the indoors where it was 2 years ago. For all who are not familiar,
that workshop is kind of the 2nd home of Pietenpol after Brodhead. If
anybody needs anything built for a Pietenpol contact me directly we can do it.
Projects on hand for this year are a prop for Gardiner Mason and if no other
projects come around a fuselage for me and maybe a tail section also. These
will be for my new Sky Scout.
Dick N.
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Sky Scout... |
Gary,
Thanks. I became confused answering all the e-mails that I started with
these questions. I know that you are building an Air Camper! Thanks
for the info on the spars.
Ray Krause
----- Original Message -----
From: gboothe5@comcast.net
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 12:15 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout...
Negative.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: "Ray Krause" <raykrause@frontiernet.net>
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:24:54 -0800
To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout...
Gary,
Thanks for the information. If = using the 3/4" spar material,
would I still rout out the spar as shown in the = plans? Are you
building a Sky Scout?
Ray Krause
----- Original Message -----
From: gboothe5@comcast.net
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, = 2010 9:15 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: = Sky Scout...
Ray,
FYI...3/4" is an acceptable dimension for = spars.
Gary
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: "Ray Krause" <raykrause@frontiernet.net&g= t;
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 07:59:45 -0800
To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com= >
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout...
Thanks, Gary.
I will accept your humility with a = =3D grain of=3D20
salt! Your beautiful workmanship attests to your =3D abilities!
The point about laminating to avoid = =3D wood defects
is=3D20 well taken, I will follow suit. After = computing the
costs of =3D the=3D20 metal struts, I am leaning towards the wood
= struts! As far as the =3D spars=3D20 go, they were
included in the wood I got = with the Sky Scout package; =3D
they are=3D20 spruce. But rather than the 1" = thickness, they
are 3/4", I think I =3D will=3D20 sandwich then with two pieces =
of 1/8" birch plywood to get the 1" (so =3D they fit=3D20 the
ribs). = The Hughes Hardwood =3D place in=3D20 Chico = had
beautiful parallel grain fir that would have made beautiful =3D
spars,=3D20 = cheap, too. Next time I am in Chico, I will
check out the =3D = hickory. =3D20 The ash seems to be really
dense/heavy (stronger than hickory?). = I =3D will=3D20 try
to look it up.
Thanks for the response. And yes, I = =3D have
referenced=3D20 Chris's web site and printed many photos.... but it
= makes my eyes and =3D brain=3D20 hurt!
Ray
----- Original Message -----
From:=3D20 Gary=3D20 Boothe
To: pietenpol-list@matronics= .com=3D =3D20
Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 =3D = 3:17=3D20 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: =3D Sky=3D20 = Scout...
Ray,
Your=3D20 questions are intelligent and =
educated=3D85.attributes to which I make =3D no personal=3D20
claim. In all honesty, I perused = the West Coast Piet web site
to =3D exhaustion.=3D20 Too bad Chris Tracy = doesn=3D92t
have sponsors, or he=3D92d be a rich man! =3D After=3D20
looking at every = application of wood strut that has been built
and is =3D flying,=3D20 I decided = it was doable.
Conversations about appropriate woods went =3D from ash=3D20 = to
spruce, including hickory. I decided that I liked the look of =3D
hickory = and=3D20 the decision was that easy. For size, I just
used the plans dimensions = =3D for=3D20 steel.
Later=3D20 conversations with another builder (either =
Cliff Dawson or Douwe =3D Blumberg),=3D20 far more intelligent
and = educated than I, showed published =3D strengths of=3D20
various woods, and = verified that hickory had plenty of strength
for =3D our=3D20 purposes. I think I = can find that email,
but it=3D92s on my other =3D computer at=3D20 home.
My=3D20 wing struts will also be hickory, roughly the = shape
and size on the =3D plans.=3D20 Connections will surely be
similar to = Douwe=3D92s. All cabanes and wing =3D struts
are=3D20 laminated = because=3D85.that=3D92s what everyone
does! Really, it gives you =3D an=3D20 opportunity to rotate the =
grain and eliminate the possibility of =3D having a weak=3D20
link. Also, it = looks really cool!
My=3D20 wood source is a local hardwood supplier, in = Auburn,
Ca (California=3D20 Hardwoods), who does his own wholesale
purchasing = in whatever length =3D and size=3D20 needed. He
even mills, if necessary. He = located my fir spars and sold
=3D all four=3D20 for $185!! Bonus is that he helped = build
some wood airplanes and knows =3D what=3D20 grains to look =
for.
Further=3D20 note: If anything goes wrong, = I=3D92ll
blame Chris Tracy for =3D publishing all=3D20 those = photos!
Gary=3D20 Boothe
Cool,=3D20 CA
Pietenpol
WW=3D20 Corvair Conversion
Tail=3D20 done, Fuselage on gear
18=3D20 ribs done
From:=3D20
owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com=3D20
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of =
=3D Ray=3D20 Krause
Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 1:51 PM
To: =3D pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: = Re: Pietenpol-List: =3D Sky=3D20 =
Scout...
Gary,
If I made =3D these 22"=3D20 struts (front/center) from
metal, they would = weigh 22+ ounces without =3D the=3D20
ends. How did you decide on the = thickness and shape for the
struts? =3D Why did=3D20 you chose Hickory versus, say = ash?
Did you laminate because you =3D needed=3D20 to get to a
certain = thickness, or for strength? There is a =3D source
for=3D20 hickory and ash that = has 2" (8/4) material in Chico,
I think. I =3D got some=3D20 1" ash for = 2.37 per board
foot.
Are your =3D "flying=3D20 struts" (the long struts) also
hickory? = What=3D20 shape?
Thanks,
Ray=3D20 Krause.
P.S. The =3D aerostream=3D20 tubing is very expensive,
about $56.00 per = front strut ($28.00/ft and =3D .7593=3D20
lbs/ft). Wicks has it for $17.00/ft = right now. I am not sure of
its =3D quality.=3D20 None of the aerotubing matches = the
recommended sizes on the plans (1.5 =3D X .75=3D20 and 2" X
1").
----- =3D Original=3D20 Message -----
From: Gary=3D20 Boothe
To: pietenpol-list@matron= ics.com=3D =3D20
Sent: =3D Monday, February=3D20 22, 2010 7:31 AM
Subject: RE:=3D20 Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout...
Ray,
I had a couple free minutes before I took = =3D off for
the=3D20 week. It took 10 seconds to pull off one of the rear =
cabanes. It =3D measures=3D20 21" end-to-end, and weighs 18 oz
(had to use the = postal=3D20 scales!).
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, =3D = mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(18 ribs down=3D85)
-----Original Message-----
From: = owner-pi= etenpol=3D
-list-server@matronics.com=3D20
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of =
Ray=3D20 Krause
Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 8:54 PM
To:=3D20 pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: = Sky=3D20 Scout...
Krause"=3D20 <raykrause@frontiernet.net>
Shad,
Thanks for the comments on the = struts. =3D I
will=3D20 probably go with the 4130
struts from Wicks. It is just that I = =3D really=3D20
enjoy the wood working. If the
wood were comparable, I would maybe go = that=3D20 way.
I would appreciate the Dillsburg Aero =3D Reference.
=3D20 The size of the metal
struts is included in the plans; so I can = =3D probably
get=3D20 pretty close to the
right size.
Thanks for your help.
Ray Krause
----- Original Message ----- =
From: "shad bell"=3D20 <aviatorbell@yahoo.com>
To:=3D20 <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 = 5:33=3D20 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky=3D20 Scout...
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted = =3D by: shad=3D20
bell <aviatorbell@yahoo.com>
>
>
> Ray, I am not 100% sure but I would = bet =3D
wooden=3D20 struts are heavier than
> streamlined tube. The bolts, = and =3D steel
end=3D20 fittings that would be
> required add up fast. As for = the =3D older=3D20
metal designation, just usse 4130,
> If you need I can see what dimensions = =3D ours
are,=3D20 some where in the 2 inch
> by 9/16 (minor axis) .049 wall =3D thickness. =3D20
also check dillsburg aero works =
> for tube prices, wicks is also having = a =3D
special=3D20 "sale" on streamlined
> tubing of some dimensions. I = can =3D look up=3D20
the number for Dillsburg Aero
> Works in PA if you need me to, I have = a =3D
price=3D20 list out in my hanger, he
> does not have a web =3D = site.
>
>
> Shad
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
<=3D
/PRE>http://
www.mat=3D
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List&
lt;=3D
B><=3D
/PRE>http://forums.matronics.com=3D
<=3D
/PRE>=3D
http://www.matronic
s.com/c=3D
ontribution<=3D
/PRE>
href=3D3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://ww=
w.mat=3D
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href=3D3D"http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href=3D3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.=
com/c=3D
3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=
3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D
3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=
3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D
3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=
3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D
3D
href=3D'3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"'>http://w
ww
.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=
3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D
3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=
3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D
3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=
3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D
3D
href=3D'3D"http://forums.matronics.com"'>http://forums.matronics.com
3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=
3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D
3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=
3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D
3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=
3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D
3D
href=3D'3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"'>http://www.matronics
.c
om/contribution
3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=
3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D
3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=
3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D
3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=
3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D
3D
~=B2=03r
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
~=B2=03r
Message 15
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| Subject: | getting kids interested in ARF's in the 1960's |
ARF's were around in the 60's and many of you flew them like my brother and
myself.
Take this go-together with rubber bands Cox PT-19 Trainer. It was a ver
y forgiving control
line model and when you crashed the rubber bands took the impact and you co
uld put it
all back together easily if you had enough rubber bands around.
I purchase TWO of the remanufactured Cox retro PT-19's around 2002 when the
y ran a new
production run and still have them in the box for some fine summer day.
We would take them off from our picnic table in the back yard pretending to
be taking off from
an aircraft carrier. When fuel was running low we would fly a high circl
e in hopes that we could then
glide and make a landing back on the picnic table carrier. Many scale mod
el pilots got killed crashing
violently into the edge of that big green picnic table at 4101 Hilltop Driv
e.
Message 16
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| Subject: | "Red Betsy" the movie |
I remember when this movie was made and saw the trailer.
Does anyone know how to get a copy of this elusive movie?
Barry Davis
Big Piet
N973BP
Message 17
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| Subject: | getting kids interested in ARF's in the 1960's |
I bought that very same plane for my boy....it's one of Cox's better
plastic planes, it at least flew half way decent.
Brian
SLC-UT
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy,
Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 1:36 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: getting kids interested in ARF's in the 1960's
ARF's were around in the 60's and many of you flew them like my brother
and myself.
Take this go-together with rubber bands Cox PT-19 Trainer. It was a
very forgiving control
line model and when you crashed the rubber bands took the impact and you
could put it
all back together easily if you had enough rubber bands around.
I purchase TWO of the remanufactured Cox retro PT-19's around 2002 when
they ran a new
production run and still have them in the box for some fine summer day.
We would take them off from our picnic table in the back yard pretending
to be taking off from
an aircraft carrier. When fuel was running low we would fly a high
circle in hopes that we could then
glide and make a landing back on the picnic table carrier. Many scale
model pilots got killed crashing
violently into the edge of that big green picnic table at 4101 Hilltop
Drive.
Message 18
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|
Greg,
Can you please contact me re: Markle Mania? I've sent numerous emails with
no replies....please get back to me. Thank you!
Ryan
rmueller23@gmail.com
marklepietenpolfund@gmail.com
do not archive
On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 2:28 PM, greg menoche <gnwac@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> Dick, any chance of a rudder. Greg Menoche here in DE working on ribs. It
> would be a great feeling to know that members at S&F had a part in the
> completion of my one day Piet? Thanks.
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Finally making sawdust and progress! |
Well put Jack, but I bet that RV-10 is one big distraction.
rick
On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 6:39 AM, Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> Good for you, Billy!
>
> The older I get the more I realize that nothing much matters except building
> and flying Pietenpols. Everything else is just distraction
>
> Jack Phillips
> NX899JP
> Raleigh, NC
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Billy
> McCaskill
> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 11:55 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Finally making sawdust and progress!
>
>
> After a year and a half break from building, for various and sundry reasons,
> I'm finally back to making sawdust and progress on my Piet project. Now
> that my bandsaw is fixed and I've finally gotten some wood to work with, I'm
> cutting some 1/2" x 1/4" capstrip so that I can soon start building ribs. I
> should also have enough wood left over to buld my horizontal stab, thus
> completing the woodwork part of my tail section. It feels really good to
> finally be back to working on my Piet! I'll be back out in the garage again
> tomorrow cutting more capstrip!
>
> --------
> Billy McCaskill
> Urbana, IL
> tailfeathers almost done
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287753#287753
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: getting kids interested in ARF's in the 1960's |
I had the Cox P-40 Warhawk with the same .049 engine Mike, and I still have
that .049 with an original prop.
http://cgi.ebay.com/1950s-VINTAGE-COX-THIMBLE-DROME-P-40-WARHAWK-AIRPLANE_W
0QQitemZ170449166359QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20100223?IMSfp=TL100223142004r21
654
rick
On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 3:36 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace
Corporation] <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov> wrote:
> ARF=92s were around in the 60=92s and many of you flew them like my brot
her
> and myself.
>
> Take this go-together with rubber bands Cox PT-19 Trainer. It was a
> very forgiving control
> line model and when you crashed the rubber bands took the impact and you
> could put it
> all back together easily if you had enough rubber bands around.
>
> I purchase TWO of the remanufactured Cox retro PT-19=92s around 2002 when
> they ran a new
> production run and still have them in the box for some fine summer day.
>
> We would take them off from our picnic table in the back yard pretending
to
> be taking off from
> an aircraft carrier. When fuel was running low we would fly a high
> circle in hopes that we could then
> glide and make a landing back on the picnic table carrier. Many scale
> model pilots got killed crashing
> violently into the edge of that big green picnic table at 4101 Hilltop
> Drive.
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 21
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| Subject: | "Red Betsy" the movie----Pietenpol scene right up front |
in YouTube video
Here is the movie trailer: Shows what looks like Allen Rudolph's Ford Pie
t in the scene and taking off.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPrGB0PgkM0
The movie web site says "coming soon to home DVD...." but couldn't find
one anywhere for sale on Amazon.com
or the like.
http://www.redbetsy.com/start.html
Probably everything you want to see is in this trailer anyway !
Red Betsy (2003<http://www.imdb.com/year/2003/>) More at IMDbPro ><http://p
ro.imdb.com/rg/maindetails-title/tconst-pro-header-link/title/tt0284426/>
Plot: Wisconsin, 1941. A group of rural townspeople gather on a farm field,
eagerly observing amateur pilot Dale Rounds (Brent Crawford) as he prepare
s his airplane, Red Betsy, for its inaugural flight. Dale built Red Betsy w
ith the help of his father, Emmet (Leo Burmester) from spare automotive par
ts. As the community watches with growing excitement and skepticism, Dale a
nd Emmet are determined to show that their contraption can really fly.
Waiting expectantly in the sidelines are Dale's girlfriend Winifred (Alison
Elliott), and mother Helen (Lois Smith). After a few false starts, the air
plane barrels down the makeshift runway and glides effortlessly into the ai
r, clearing the treetops. The crowd erupts into enthusiastic cheers and app
lause. That evening, Dale and Winifred discuss their plans of getting marri
ed and moving to the state capitol in Madison.Winifred believes that Emmet
doesn't like her. "He keeps referring to me in the third person ... like I'
m not even there," she says. Dale assures Winifred that his father likes he
r, however he realizes that Emmet will have a problem with them moving away
.
Message 22
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| Subject: | Cox pt-19, off topic |
Mike, a guy I work with has one of those old "U" control pt-19's with the .049.
We still occasionally get it out when all the airplanes are out of the hanger.
It has been wrecked a gozillion times, and is probably 200% it original weight.
The engine came off once after a touch and go and headed streight for our
supervisors office (still running!) it slid to a stop at the foot of the door.
I like RC models better, after 2-3 min of spinning around, watching the
light flicker past the windows of the hanger doors I want to loose my lunch.
But just like an idiot, I take my turn every time it comes out of the locker.
Shad
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: "Red Betsy" the movie----Pietenpol scene right up |
front in YouTube video
Mike + Barry,
I don't think that site has been updated since '03. It doesn't look like th
e
movie is available on DVD, nor will be anytime soon; too bad:
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/entertainment/31876919.html
Ryan
On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 3:30 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace
Corporation] <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov> wrote:
> Here is the movie trailer: Shows what looks like Allen Rudolph=92s For
d
> Piet in the scene and taking off.
>
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPrGB0PgkM0
>
>
> The movie web site says =93coming soon to home DVD=85.=94 but couldn
=92t find
> one anywhere for sale on Amazon.com
>
> or the like.
>
>
> http://www.redbetsy.com/start.html
>
>
> Probably everything you want to see is in this trailer anyway !
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Finally making sawdust and progress! |
Jack,
Have they come up with a tailwheel RV-10 yet? :)
Wayne Bressler Jr.
Taildraggers, Inc.
taildraggersinc.com
On Feb 24, 2010, at 4:21 PM, Rick Holland <at7000ft@gmail.com> wrote:
> <at7000ft@gmail.com>
>
> Well put Jack, but I bet that RV-10 is one big distraction.
>
> rick
>
> On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 6:39 AM, Jack Phillips
> <pietflyr@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>> >
>>
>> Good for you, Billy!
>>
>> The older I get the more I realize that nothing much matters except
>> building
>> and flying Pietenpols. Everything else is just distraction
>>
>> Jack Phillips
>> NX899JP
>> Raleigh, NC
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Billy
>> McCaskill
>> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 11:55 PM
>> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Finally making sawdust and progress!
>>
>> >
>>
>> After a year and a half break from building, for various and sundry
>> reasons,
>> I'm finally back to making sawdust and progress on my Piet
>> project. Now
>> that my bandsaw is fixed and I've finally gotten some wood to work
>> with, I'm
>> cutting some 1/2" x 1/4" capstrip so that I can soon start building
>> ribs. I
>> should also have enough wood left over to buld my horizontal stab,
>> thus
>> completing the woodwork part of my tail section. It feels really
>> good to
>> finally be back to working on my Piet! I'll be back out in the
>> garage again
>> tomorrow cutting more capstrip!
>>
>> --------
>> Billy McCaskill
>> Urbana, IL
>> tailfeathers almost done
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287753#287753
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Rick Holland
> Castle Rock, Colorado
>
> "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Not your father's Ambroid and balsa model airplanes |
anymore
All is not lost...
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1123029&highlight=pietenpol
On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 3:20 PM, Roman Bukolt <conceptmodels@tds.net> wrote:
> In 1989 I participated in a Giant Scale RC model event held at EAA.
> At that time we were told that that the average age of RC model builders
> was over 50 yrs.
> That was before ARFs were invented. There was one company in the U.S. who
> manufactured an almost ready to fly series of kits. I don't remember the
> name but their fuselages were molded plastic and the wings were plastic
> covered foam.
> On the other hand, I first introduced my 1/4th scale Fleet Biplane in
> 1978, the first kit on the market designed to be powered by a chain saw
> engine. Over the last 32 yrs. I sold over 5000 of them. Then in 1989 when
> electrics were catching on, I introduced the 1/6th scale electric Fleet.
> Curiously, today, I'm still getting orders for both sizes. Yes, most of
> the builders range in age from 50 to 80. This is with virtually no
> advertising. The profits from the kits are what provide the materials for
> the Piet I'm building. After all it's basically nothing more then a person
> controlled 1ft. = 1ft. scale model airplane. It was interesting that last
> year, 2009, with the recession my sales increased 300%. Talking to my
> customers, most were laid off and needed a lengthy project to keep them
> busy.
> I do have a website for the curious,
> www.conceptmodelsllc.com
>
> On Feb 24, 2010, at 1:02 PM, Ben Charvet wrote:
>
>
> That's a pretty neat model, but the availability such inexpensive
> alternatives to building this kind of stuff from a kit (or better yet from
> plans) eventually really hurts the future of projects like the Pietenpol.
> Do remember when you were a kid, the ready to fly plastic control line
> airplanes that were available? I never saw one fly very well, or nearly as
> well as a kit-built balsa model. When I quit flying radio control stuff 6
> years ago, it was already cheaper to buy a Ready to Fly airplane than it was
> to buy the kit, covering, and accessories. I'm thankful now that my dad was
> a plans builder of model airplanes, and passed those skills/inclinations on
> to me. Hopefully I've passed those skills on to my sons...
>
> Ben Charvet
>
>
> On 2/23/2010 8:16 AM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace
> Corporation] wrote:
>
> For $299, model airplane building and flying has made revolutionary
> progress since I was a lad.
>
> No glow plugs, no messy castor oil Glowfuel, quiet, elegant and check
> out those flashing LED nav lights !
>
> Mike C.
>
> do not archive
>
>
> *http://www.hobby-lobby.com/b25-overview.htm*<http://www.hobby-lobby.com/b25-overview.htm>
>
> Scroll down and click on video to play.
>
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> *
>
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> *
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or
not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy." --British
publisher and writer Ernest Benn (1875-1954)
Message 26
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| Subject: | Cox control line models and night fires |
Rick Holland
I had the Cox P-40 Warhawk with the same .049 engine Mike, and I still have
that .049 with an original prop.
Isn't' t that cool ! Piece of history.
I remember the P-51 they came out with and we wired it up with a 9 volt bat
tery and two nav lights at the wing tips from Radio Shack so we could fly i
t at night on the school playground. The thing would go round and round o
n the pavement until it just had enough speed to lift off with that heavy,
heavy battery and then wallow on the verge of a stall in ground effect unti
l we accidentally hit the blacktop and tumbled it.
The castor oil in the Glowfuel didn't mix well with our duct taping the bat
tery on.
Later we went back for night flying at the playground without the heavy bat
tery and wingtip lights and simply doused the wings and tail with lighter f
luid then started the engine and threw a blue tip match at the thing and fl
ew it around in one big fireball trailing behind the airplane like in Tora
Tora Tora until the thing fell to the pavement in a black smoking, melting
mess. Great fun.
Now they have very high tech pyrotechnics for R/C models !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48gC3ICj4HA
do not archive
Message 27
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| Subject: | Cox control line models and night fires |
Mikee,
Out here in California, where the hills are coated in golden gunpowder all
summer, that kind of stuff will get you arrested, if not shot.
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael
D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 1:54 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cox control line models and night fires
Rick Holland
I had the Cox P-40 Warhawk with the same .049 engine Mike, and I still have
that .049 with an original prop.
Isn't' t that cool ! Piece of history.
I remember the P-51 they came out with and we wired it up with a 9 volt
battery and two nav lights at the wing tips from Radio Shack so we could fly
it at night on the school playground. The thing would go round and round
on the pavement until it just had enough speed to lift off with that heavy,
heavy battery and then wallow on the verge of a stall in ground effect until
we accidentally hit the blacktop and tumbled it.
The castor oil in the Glowfuel didn't mix well with our duct taping the
battery on.
Later we went back for night flying at the playground without the heavy
battery and wingtip lights and simply doused the wings and tail with lighter
fluid then started the engine and threw a blue tip match at the thing and
flew it around in one big fireball trailing behind the airplane like in Tora
Tora Tora until the thing fell to the pavement in a black smoking, melting
mess. Great fun.
Now they have very high tech pyrotechnics for R/C models !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48gC3ICj4HA
do not archive
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Not your father's Ambroid and balsa model airplanes |
anymore
Roman Bukolt wrote:
> In 1989 I participated in a Giant Scale RC model event held at EAA.
> At that time we were told that that the average age of RC model
> builders was over 50 yrs.
> That was before ARFs were invented. There was one company in the U.S.
> who manufactured an almost ready to fly series of kits. I don't
> remember the name but their fuselages were molded plastic and the
> wings were plastic covered foam.
Lanier. The one that I got (used) flew like crap.
> On the other hand, I first introduced my 1/4th scale Fleet Biplane in
> 1978, the first kit on the market designed to be powered by a chain
> saw engine. Over the last 32 yrs. I sold over 5000 of them. Then in
> 1989 when electrics were catching on, I introduced the 1/6th scale
> electric Fleet. Curiously, today, I'm still getting orders for both
> sizes.
Your name just rang a bell! I used to belong to a club in Sayre, PA
then Nichols, NY about the time you came out with the 1/4 scale kit.
Dave
Do not archive
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Cox control line models and night fires |
Yup, I love the smell of castor oil in the morning.
do not archive
On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 4:53 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC
Aerospace Corporation] <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov> wrote:
> Rick Holland
>
> I had the Cox P-40 Warhawk with the same .049 engine Mike, and I still have
> that .049 with an original prop.
>
> Isnt t that cool ! Piece of history.
>
> I remember the P-51 they came out with and we wired it up with a 9 volt
> battery and two nav lights at the wing tips from Radio Shack so we could fly
> it at night on the school playground. The thing would go round and round
> on the pavement until it just had enough speed to lift off with that heavy,
> heavy battery and then wallow on the verge of a stall in ground effect until
> we accidentally hit the blacktop and tumbled it.
>
> The castor oil in the Glowfuel didnt mix well with our duct taping the
> battery on.
>
> Later we went back for night flying at the playground without the heavy
> battery and wingtip lights and simply doused the wings and tail with lighter
> fluid then started the engine and threw a blue tip match at the thing and
> flew it around in one big fireball trailing behind the airplane like in Tora
> Tora Tora until the thing fell to the pavement in a black smoking, melting
> mess. Great fun.
>
> Now they have very high tech pyrotechnics for R/C models !
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48gC3ICj4HA
>
>
> do not archive
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 30
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| Subject: | Finally making sawdust and progress! |
The RV-10 counts (barely) as building.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 4:21 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Finally making sawdust and progress!
Well put Jack, but I bet that RV-10 is one big distraction.
rick
On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 6:39 AM, Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
wrote:
<pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
>
> Good for you, Billy!
>
> The older I get the more I realize that nothing much matters except
building
> and flying Pietenpols. Everything else is just distraction
>
> Jack Phillips
> NX899JP
> Raleigh, NC
>
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: "Red Betsy" the movie----Pietenpol scene right up |
front in Y
Mike. There were about 2 hours of Pietenpol filming that I was involved with before
all the editing, From Piet building in the red barn, with a semi- assembled
Piet to the filming of Allen's Piet at Oconomowoc air strip If we could locate
many of the film clips, That were taken and never put in the film,it would
be a great and interesting bit of entertainment. From the soup can on the carb,
preheat exhaust pipe to the Directors insisting that the camera equipment
be using the safety belt in the rear cockpit and the camera man had to hold on
to Allen's plane anyway to keep from falling out.all while Ted flew from the
front seat. a great moment in Pietenpol
filming.
Pieti Lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288054#288054
Message 32
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| Subject: | Cox control line models and night fires |
Cox .049's had a huge influence on my early aviation activities. When I
made a brake fluid reservoir for my Pietenpol, I found a Cox Thimble-Drome
glow fuel can on ebay and used it to make my reservoir. Just sort of a
quiet tribute to one of the things that got me interested in flying.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 6:40 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cox control line models and night fires
Yup, I love the smell of castor oil in the morning.
do not archive
On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 4:53 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC
Aerospace Corporation] <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov> wrote:
> Rick Holland
>
> I had the Cox P-40 Warhawk with the same .049 engine Mike, and I still
have
> that .049 with an original prop.
>
> Isn't' t that cool ! Piece of history.
>
> I remember the P-51 they came out with and we wired it up with a 9 volt
> battery and two nav lights at the wing tips from Radio Shack so we could
fly
> it at night on the school playground. The thing would go round and round
> on the pavement until it just had enough speed to lift off with that
heavy,
> heavy battery and then wallow on the verge of a stall in ground effect
until
> we accidentally hit the blacktop and tumbled it.
>
> The castor oil in the Glowfuel didn't mix well with our duct taping the
> battery on.
>
> Later we went back for night flying at the playground without the heavy
> battery and wingtip lights and simply doused the wings and tail with
lighter
> fluid then started the engine and threw a blue tip match at the thing and
> flew it around in one big fireball trailing behind the airplane like in
Tora
> Tora Tora until the thing fell to the pavement in a black smoking, melting
> mess. Great fun.
>
> Now they have very high tech pyrotechnics for R/C models !
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48gC3ICj4HA
>
>
> do not archive
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: "Red Betsy" the movie----Pietenpol scene right up |
front in YouTube video
Hi Guys,
This is really ironic. I bought my model A runout from a flea market guy
in Boscobel Wi. My wife and I drove up there to pick it up after winning
an Ebay bid ("Buy it now" for $100.00)
But memories of the regionally evocative film, shot in Delafield and set
in World War II era Boscobel, remain vivid for many who wonder how they
can see it again.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com>
Sent: Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:43 pm
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: "Red Betsy" the movie----Pietenpol scene righ
t up front in YouTube video
Mike + Barry,
I don't think that site has been updated since '03. It doesn't look like
the movie is available on DVD, nor will be anytime soon; too bad:
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/entertainment/31876919.html
Ryan
On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 3:30 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace
Corporation] <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov> wrote:
Here is the movie trailer: Shows what looks like Allen Rudolph=99s
Ford Piet in the scene and taking off.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPrGB0PgkM0
The movie web site says =9Ccoming soon to home DVD.
=9D but couldn=99t find one anywhere for sale on Amazon.com
or the like.
http://www.redbetsy.com/start.html
Probably everything you want to see is in this trailer anyway !
========================
===========
-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
-
-========================
========================
===========
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
========================
===========
-= - List Contribution Web Site -
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
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Message 34
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| Subject: | Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder |
Hi Guys,
I have been wrestling with the engineering of making my free-castoring tai
lwheel into a steerable type. The conventional wisdom on this list has bee
n that one should not connect the tailwheel with the rudder, as per the Ae
ronca Champ, and many others of that era, due to the fact (?) that the woo
den rudder is not strong enough to handle the loads. I see that Ken Perkin
's Time Machine is set-up just that way.
Any new thoughts on this subject?
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
Message 35
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|
I think Vi Kapler (sp?) used to sell aluminum for struts, worth a call. (no
I don't know his number)
I'm sure aluminum is lighter, and I'm also sure that either metal type strut
is ultimately less work than a wooden strut. The only reason to do wood
struts I can think of is for "the look". IF that's your thing, go for it,
they'll work fine but will probably add a couple weeks to the project, not a
big deal.
I would personally use a good epoxy such as T-88 for laminating struts
because it allows time and slippage while aligning and clamping whereas some
others set up pretty quick, and don't like to be slid around much once
contact is made. Epoxy is also one of the more forgiving glues if you have
some areas that don't contact, it will fill the gap and retain strength.
That all being said... I'm sure they all work fine, choose one you like and
move forward.
Everybody building struts, remember to not put your jury struts in the
middle, get them off to one side. It is said this will help keep harmonic
resonance vibrations down by being unbalanced. Sounds good, so I did it.
Douwe
Message 36
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|
How are you,I hope all is well at home and work,I'm writing you this with tears
in my eyes,as many of you have not responded to my last email and i guess you
don't seem to be of help after when i told you about my difficulties here in
United Kingdomi write to let you know i misplaced my wallet on my way heading
back to my hotel room from the Starbucks coffee shop.Presently i have limited
access to internet and would like you to assist me with a loan of 1,540 Pounds
to sort-out my hotel bills and to get myself back home because my wallet consist
of all my money,phone,diary and my boarding pass(Return Ticket).
I have spoken to the embassy here but they are not responding to matters effectively,I'll
Refund the money back to you as soon as i'm back home,I would have
love you to call me but don't have a phone where i can be reached.
let me know if you can be of any help,I will appreciate whatever you can afford
to assist me with, do get back to me immediately as you receive this email in
order for me to let you know where to send the money.
I know this email sounds strange but i did send it
Thanks
Ben
Message 37
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| Subject: | Finally making sawdust and progress! |
No, and apparently they have no plans to. I considered modifying mine to be
a taildragger, but the plans for the RV-10 are not published. You get a
very detailed builder's manual, but no real plans so it would be very
difficult to design a modification.
With the long nose housing that O-540 Lycoming, ground visibility would be
something akin to that of a Pietenpol, and the tail cone would have to be
beefed up substantially to handle the tailwheel loads. I decided to leave
it alone and build it as a tricycle. It's a pity, because I've never owned
an airplane with a nosewheel before. However, when I eventually sell it,
there will be a much wider market for it as a tricycle than if it was a
taildragger.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wayne
Bressler
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 4:44 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Finally making sawdust and progress!
<wayne@taildraggersinc.com>
Jack,
Have they come up with a tailwheel RV-10 yet? :)
Wayne Bressler Jr.
Taildraggers, Inc.
taildraggersinc.com
Message 38
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|
| Subject: | Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder |
I ran separate tailwheel steering cables for mine, because I didn't like the
loading that tailwheel steering would put on that rudder. The difference
between the Pietenpol and a Champ or Cub is that on those planes, the rudder
horn (where the cables attach) was down at the bottom, so the horn could
drive the tailwheel steering. With the Pietenpol, the horn is in the middle
of the rudder, but the tailwheel would be driven off the bottom of the
rudder (by an additional horn). The light wooden structure would have to
handle the torsional load from the tailwheel. It might be strong enough,
but you would be guessing what the loads are and how much the rudder can
handle.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
helspersew@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 7:15 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder
Hi Guys,
I have been wrestling with the engineering of making my free-castoring
tailwheel into a steerable type. The conventional wisdom on this list has
been that one should not connect the tailwheel with the rudder, as per the
Aeronca Champ, and many others of that era, due to the fact (?) that the
wooden rudder is not strong enough to handle the loads. I see that Ken
Perkin's Time Machine is set-up just that way.
Any new thoughts on this subject?
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
Message 39
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|
| Subject: | Re: Finally making sawdust and progress! |
So true. My good buddy assembled an RV-8, and almost built it as an A
for the same reason, but he just couldn't bring himself to do it. :)
I check the VAF site daily just to see what Doug Reeves digs up. The
RV guys really put together some great trip reports. Love 'em or hate
'em, the RV-10 is a very useful airplane.
We've considered an RV-12 project as an "investment", but the economy
isn't very convincing right now.
Do not archive.
Wayne Bressler Jr.
Taildraggers, Inc.
taildraggersinc.com
On Feb 24, 2010, at 9:38 PM, "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
wrote:
> >
>
> No, and apparently they have no plans to. I considered modifying
> mine to be
> a taildragger, but the plans for the RV-10 are not published. You
> get a
> very detailed builder's manual, but no real plans so it would be very
> difficult to design a modification.
>
> With the long nose housing that O-540 Lycoming, ground visibility
> would be
> something akin to that of a Pietenpol, and the tail cone would have
> to be
> beefed up substantially to handle the tailwheel loads. I decided to
> leave
> it alone and build it as a tricycle. It's a pity, because I've
> never owned
> an airplane with a nosewheel before. However, when I eventually
> sell it,
> there will be a much wider market for it as a tricycle than if it
> was a
> taildragger.
>
> Jack Phillips
> NX899JP
> Raleigh, NC
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wayne
> Bressler
> Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 4:44 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Finally making sawdust and progress!
>
> <wayne@taildraggersinc.com>
>
> Jack,
>
> Have they come up with a tailwheel RV-10 yet? :)
>
> Wayne Bressler Jr.
> Taildraggers, Inc.
> taildraggersinc.com
>
>
Message 40
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|
| Subject: | Re: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder |
On my plane, the tailwheel steering cables go to a horn on the bottom of th
e rudder. So far - no problem . But I will keep watching it. Gardiner Mason
=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Jack Phillips <piet
flyr@bellsouth.net>=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Wed, Februar
y 24, 2010 9:42:57 PM=0ASubject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Steerable tailwheel- h
ooked to rudder=0A=0A =0AI ran separate tailwheel steering cables=0Afor min
e, because I didn=99t like the loading that tailwheel steering would
=0Aput on that rudder. The difference between the Pietenpol and a Champ or
=0ACub is that on those planes, the rudder horn (where the cables attach) w
as down=0Aat the bottom, so the horn could drive the tailwheel steering. W
ith the=0APietenpol, the horn is in the middle of the rudder, but the tailw
heel would be=0Adriven off the bottom of the rudder (by an additional horn)
. The light=0Awooden structure would have to handle the torsional load fro
m the tailwheel. =0AIt might be strong enough, but you would be guessing wh
at the loads are and how=0Amuch the rudder can handle.=0A =0AJack Phillips
=0ANX899JP=0ARaleigh, NC=0A =0A=0A________________________________=0A =0AFr
om:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: owner-pietenpol-list-
server@matronics.com ] On Behalf Of helspersew@aol.com=0ASent: Wednesday, F
ebruary 24, 2010=0A7:15 PM=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: Pi
etenpol-List: Steerable=0Atailwheel- hooked to rudder=0A =0AHi Guys,=0A =0A
I have been wrestling with the=0Aengineering of making my free-castoring ta
ilwheel into a steerable type. The=0Aconventional wisdom on this list has b
een that one should not connect the=0Atailwheel with the rudder, as per the
Aeronca Champ, and many others of that=0Aera, due to the fact (?) that the
wooden rudder is not strong enough to handle=0Athe loads. I see that Ken P
erkin's Time Machine is set-up just that way. =0A =0AAny new thoughts on th
is subject?=0A =0ADan Helsper=0APoplar Grove, IL.=0A =0A =0A =0Ahttp://ww
w.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com=0Aht
=======
Message 41
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Yes Mike I am building another Piet. It started last year with building
a set of ribs. I got them home and decided to build a Harley Davidson
Airplane. Have you seen some of the old time planes with a two cyl
Harley engine? Check out the cover of some of the Flying Glider
Manuals. I figure the Harley might be good with that engine and that
size fuselage.
And also yes, I still have the A 65 Piet, I can't quite bring myself to
sell it. I flew it on Tuesday.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 11:10 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Sun n Fun
Dick you're building a THIRD Pietenpol by chance ? You mention
building a fuselage for you at SNF.
Maybe that is just a good general woodworking project for the wood
tent. If not, go for it !
Do you still have your 65 hp Continental Pietenpol ?
Mike C.
do not archive
Message 42
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No problem, Ray. I took your meaning to be, would the same information
apply
to a Sky Scout. Having never seen Sky Scout plans, I could not say, with
real authority, that a =BE=94 spar is OK for the Sky Scout; however, it
is my
understanding that the two airplanes are very similar, maybe even the
same
wing. Lots of conversations on this list point out that vintage aircraft
such as the T-craft or Piper Cub, have used an assortment of spar
materials,
=BE=94 thick. It is my recollection that the same conversation led to
the
agreement that, after routing, you basically end up with a =BE=94 spar,
anyhow.
Please, someone (I know this is a bashful group), if I have mis-directed
Ray, please jump in!
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
18 ribs done
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ray
Krause
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 12:29 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout...
Gary,
Thanks. I became confused answering all the e-mails that I started with
these questions. I know that you are building an Air Camper! Thanks
for
the info on the spars.
Ray Krause
----- Original Message -----
From: gboothe5@comcast.net
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 12:15 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout...
Negative.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
_____
From: "Ray Krause" <raykrause@frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout...
Gary,
Thanks for the information. If = using the 3/4" spar material,
would I
still rout out the spar as shown in the = plans? Are you
building a Sky
Scout?
Ray Krause
----- Original Message -----
From: gboothe5@comcast.net
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, = 2010 9:15 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: = Sky Scout...
Ray,
FYI...3/4" is an acceptable dimension for = spars.
Gary
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
_____
From: "Ray Krause" <raykrause@frontiernet.net&g= t;
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout...
Thanks, Gary.
I will accept your humility with a = =3D grain of=3D20 salt!
Your
beautiful workmanship attests to your =3D abilities!
The point about laminating to avoid = =3D wood defects
is=3D20 well
taken, I will follow suit. After = computing the costs of =3D
the=3D20
metal struts, I am leaning towards the wood = struts! As far as
the =3D
spars=3D20 go, they were included in the wood I got = with the
Sky Scout
package; =3D they are=3D20 spruce. But rather than the 1" =
thickness,
they are 3/4", I think I =3D will=3D20 sandwich then with two pieces
= of
1/8" birch plywood to get the 1" (so =3D they fit=3D20 the
ribs). = The
Hughes Hardwood =3D place in=3D20 Chico = had beautiful
parallel grain
fir that would have made beautiful =3D spars,=3D20 = cheap,
too. Next
time I am in Chico, I will check out the =3D = hickory. =3D20
The ash
seems to be really dense/heavy (stronger than hickory?). = I
=3D
will=3D20 try to look it up.
Thanks for the response. And yes, I = =3D have
referenced=3D20 Chris's
web site and printed many photos.... but it = makes my eyes and
=3D
brain=3D20 hurt!
Ray
----- Original Message -----
From:=3D20 Gary=3D20 Boothe
Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 =3D = 3:17=3D20 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: =3D Sky=3D20 = Scout...
Ray,
Your=3D20 questions are intelligent and = educated=3D85.attributes
to
which I make =3D no personal=3D20 claim. In all honesty, I perused
= the
West Coast Piet web site to =3D exhaustion.=3D20 Too bad Chris
Tracy
doesn=3D92t have sponsors, or he=3D92d be a rich man! =3D
After=3D20
looking at every = application of wood strut that has been built
and is
=3D flying,=3D20 I decided = it was doable. Conversations
about
appropriate woods went =3D from ash=3D20 = to spruce,
including hickory.
I decided that I liked the look of =3D hickory = and=3D20 the
decision
was that easy. For size, I just used the plans dimensions = =3D
for=3D20
steel.
Later=3D20 conversations with another builder (either = Cliff
Dawson or
Douwe =3D Blumberg),=3D20 far more intelligent and = educated
than I,
showed published =3D strengths of=3D20 various woods, and =
verified that
hickory had plenty of strength for =3D our=3D20 purposes. I think I
= can
find that email, but it=3D92s on my other =3D computer
at=3D20 home.
My=3D20 wing struts will also be hickory, roughly the = shape
and size on
the =3D plans.=3D20 Connections will surely be similar to =
Douwe=3D92s.
All cabanes and wing =3D struts are=3D20 laminated
because=3D85.that=3D92s what everyone does! Really, it gives
you =3D
an=3D20 opportunity to rotate the = grain and eliminate the
possibility
of =3D having a weak=3D20 link. Also, it = looks really cool!
My=3D20 wood source is a local hardwood supplier, in = Auburn,
Ca
(California=3D20 Hardwoods), who does his own wholesale purchasing =
in
whatever length =3D and size=3D20 needed. He even mills, if
necessary. He
= located my fir spars and sold =3D all four=3D20 for $185!!
Bonus is
that he helped = build some wood airplanes and knows =3D
what=3D20 grains
to look = for.
Further=3D20 note: If anything goes wrong, = I=3D92ll blame
Chris Tracy
for =3D publishing all=3D20 those = photos!
Gary=3D20 Boothe
Cool,=3D20 CA
Pietenpol
WW=3D20 Corvair Conversion
Tail=3D20 done, Fuselage on gear
18=3D20 ribs done
From:=3D20 owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com=3D20
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of =
=3D
Ray=3D20 Krause
Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 1:51 PM
Subject: = Re: Pietenpol-List: =3D Sky=3D20 = Scout...
Gary,
If I made =3D these 22"=3D20 struts (front/center) from metal,
they would
= weigh 22+ ounces without =3D the=3D20 ends. How did you
decide on the
thickness and shape for the struts? =3D Why did=3D20 you chose
Hickory
versus, say = ash? Did you laminate because you =3D
needed=3D20 to get
to a certain = thickness, or for strength? There is a =3D
source
for=3D20 hickory and ash that = has 2" (8/4) material in Chico,
I think.
I =3D got some=3D20 1" ash for = 2.37 per board foot.
Are your =3D "flying=3D20 struts" (the long struts) also
hickory?
What=3D20 shape?
Thanks,
Ray=3D20 Krause.
P.S. The =3D aerostream=3D20 tubing is very expensive, about
$56.00 per
front strut ($28.00/ft and =3D .7593=3D20 lbs/ft). Wicks has it
for
$17.00/ft = right now. I am not sure of its =3D quality.=3D20
None of the
aerotubing matches = the recommended sizes on the plans (1.5
=3D X
.75=3D20 and 2" X 1").
----- =3D Original=3D20 Message -----
From: Gary=3D20 Boothe
Sent: =3D Monday, February=3D20 22, 2010 7:31 AM
Subject: RE:=3D20 Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout...
Ray,
I had a couple free minutes before I took = =3D off for
the=3D20 week. It
took 10 seconds to pull off one of the rear = cabanes. It =3D
measures=3D20 21" end-to-end, and weighs 18 oz (had to use the
postal=3D20 scales!).
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, =3D = mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(18 ribs down=3D85)
-----Original Message-----
From: = owner-pi= etenpol=3D
-list-server@matronics.com=3D20
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Ray=3D20 Krause
Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 8:54 PM
To:=3D20 pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: = Sky=3D20 Scout...
<raykrause@frontiernet.net>
Shad,
Thanks for the comments on the = struts. =3D I will=3D20
probably go
with the 4130
struts from Wicks. It is just that I = =3D really=3D20 enjoy
the wood
working. If the
wood were comparable, I would maybe go = that=3D20 way.
I would appreciate the Dillsburg Aero =3D Reference. =3D20 The
size of
the metal
struts is included in the plans; so I can = =3D probably
get=3D20 pretty
close to the
right size.
Thanks for your help.
Ray Krause
----- Original Message ----- =
From: "shad bell"=3D20 <aviatorbell@yahoo.com>
To:=3D20 <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 = 5:33=3D20 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky=3D20 Scout...
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted = =3D by: shad=3D20 bell
<aviatorbell@yahoo.com>
>
>
> Ray, I am not 100% sure but I would = bet =3D wooden=3D20
struts are
heavier than
> streamlined tube. The bolts, = and =3D steel end=3D20
fittings that
would be
> required add up fast. As for = the =3D older=3D20 metal
designation,
just usse 4130,
> If you need I can see what dimensions = =3D ours are,=3D20
some where
in the 2 inch
> by 9/16 (minor axis) .049 wall =3D thickness. =3D20 also
check
dillsburg aero works =
> for tube prices, wicks is also having = a =3D special=3D20
"sale" on
streamlined
> tubing of some dimensions. I = can =3D look up=3D20 the
number for
Dillsburg Aero
> Works in PA if you need me to, I have = a =3D price=3D20
list out in my
hanger, he
> does not have a web =3D = site.
>
>
> Shad
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
<=3D
/PRE>
http://
www.mat=3D
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
&
lt;=3D
B><=3D
/PRE>
http://forums.matronics.com=3D
<=3D
/PRE>
=3D
http://www.matronic
s.com/c=3D
ontribution
<=3D
/PRE>
href=3D3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://ww=
w.mat=3D
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href=3D3D"http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href=3D3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.=
com/c=3D
3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=
3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D
3D
.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=
3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D
3D
3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=
3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D
3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=
3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D
href=3D'3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"'>http://www.matronics
.c
3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=
3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D
3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=
3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D
~=B2=03r
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"'>http://www
.matr
onics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
href='3D"http://forums.matronics.com"'>http://forums.matronics.com
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"'>http://www.matronics.c
om/co
ntribution
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
~=B2
_____
r
Message 43
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| Subject: | Re: Sky Scout... |
Thanks, Gary.
The wing is exactly the same, except 27" shorter. Routing would be a
lot of work, but doable. The ribs I got with the other wood are all
built and seem to be made for the 1" spar. I will have to make a
decision on which way to go.
I have been putting in hard points in the fuselage for the seat and
shoulder safety belts; thankfully I only need one set! I put the hard
pints one station behind the seat, so I will have to find the right seat
belts to fit. ACS has some that might work, when I get that far. Got
the turtle deck mostly done today, that was fun.
Thanks for the help.
Ray Krause
P.S. Guess I will have to take the Waiex to the Peit fly in.
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Boothe
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 7:59 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout...
No problem, Ray. I took your meaning to be, would the same information
apply to a Sky Scout. Having never seen Sky Scout plans, I could not
say, with real authority, that a =BE" spar is OK for the Sky Scout;
however, it is my understanding that the two airplanes are very similar,
maybe even the same wing. Lots of conversations on this list point out
that vintage aircraft such as the T-craft or Piper Cub, have used an
assortment of spar materials, =BE" thick. It is my recollection that the
same conversation led to the agreement that, after routing, you
basically end up with a =BE" spar, anyhow.
Please, someone (I know this is a bashful group), if I have
mis-directed Ray, please jump in!
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
18 ribs done
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ray
Krause
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 12:29 PM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout...
Gary,
Thanks. I became confused answering all the e-mails that I started
with these questions. I know that you are building an Air Camper!
Thanks for the info on the spars.
Ray Krause
----- Original Message -----
From: gboothe5@comcast.net
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 12:15 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout...
Negative.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: "Ray Krause" <raykrause@frontiernet.net>
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:24:54 -0800
To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout...
Gary,
Thanks for the information. If = using the 3/4" spar
material, would I still rout out the spar as shown in the = plans?
Are you building a Sky Scout?
Ray Krause
----- Original Message -----
From: gboothe5@comcast.net
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, = 2010 9:15 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: = Sky Scout...
Ray,
FYI...3/4" is an acceptable dimension for = spars.
Gary
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
From: "Ray Krause" <raykrause@frontiernet.net&g= t;
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 07:59:45 -0800
To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com= >
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout...
Thanks, Gary.
I will accept your humility with a = =3D grain of=3D20
salt! Your beautiful workmanship attests to your =3D abilities!
The point about laminating to avoid = =3D wood defects
is=3D20 well taken, I will follow suit. After = computing the
costs of =3D the=3D20 metal struts, I am leaning towards the wood
= struts! As far as the =3D spars=3D20 go, they were
included in the wood I got = with the Sky Scout package; =3D
they are=3D20 spruce. But rather than the 1" = thickness, they
are 3/4", I think I =3D will=3D20 sandwich then with two pieces =
of 1/8" birch plywood to get the 1" (so =3D they fit=3D20 the
ribs). = The Hughes Hardwood =3D place in=3D20 Chico = had
beautiful parallel grain fir that would have made beautiful =3D
spars,=3D20 = cheap, too. Next time I am in Chico, I will
check out the =3D = hickory. =3D20 The ash seems to be really
dense/heavy (stronger than hickory?). = I =3D will=3D20 try
to look it up.
Thanks for the response. And yes, I = =3D have
referenced=3D20 Chris's web site and printed many photos.... but it
= makes my eyes and =3D brain=3D20 hurt!
Ray
----- Original Message -----
From:=3D20 Gary=3D20 Boothe
To: pietenpol-list@matronics= .com=3D =3D20
Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 =3D = 3:17=3D20 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: =3D Sky=3D20 = Scout...
Ray,
Your=3D20 questions are intelligent and =
educated=3D85.attributes to which I make =3D no personal=3D20
claim. In all honesty, I perused = the West Coast Piet web site
to =3D exhaustion.=3D20 Too bad Chris Tracy = doesn=3D92t
have sponsors, or he=3D92d be a rich man! =3D After=3D20
looking at every = application of wood strut that has been built
and is =3D flying,=3D20 I decided = it was doable.
Conversations about appropriate woods went =3D from ash=3D20 = to
spruce, including hickory. I decided that I liked the look of =3D
hickory = and=3D20 the decision was that easy. For size, I just
used the plans dimensions = =3D for=3D20 steel.
Later=3D20 conversations with another builder (either =
Cliff Dawson or Douwe =3D Blumberg),=3D20 far more intelligent
and = educated than I, showed published =3D strengths of=3D20
various woods, and = verified that hickory had plenty of strength
for =3D our=3D20 purposes. I think I = can find that email,
but it=3D92s on my other =3D computer at=3D20 home.
My=3D20 wing struts will also be hickory, roughly the =
shape and size on the =3D plans.=3D20 Connections will surely
be similar to = Douwe=3D92s. All cabanes and wing =3D struts
are=3D20 laminated = because=3D85.that=3D92s what everyone
does! Really, it gives you =3D an=3D20 opportunity to rotate the =
grain and eliminate the possibility of =3D having a weak=3D20
link. Also, it = looks really cool!
My=3D20 wood source is a local hardwood supplier, in =
Auburn, Ca (California=3D20 Hardwoods), who does his own
wholesale purchasing = in whatever length =3D and size=3D20
needed. He even mills, if necessary. He = located my fir spars
and sold =3D all four=3D20 for $185!! Bonus is that he helped =
build some wood airplanes and knows =3D what=3D20 grains to
look = for.
Further=3D20 note: If anything goes wrong, = I=3D92ll
blame Chris Tracy for =3D publishing all=3D20 those = photos!
Gary=3D20 Boothe
Cool,=3D20 CA
Pietenpol
WW=3D20 Corvair Conversion
Tail=3D20 done, Fuselage on gear
18=3D20 ribs done
From:=3D20
owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com=3D20
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of =
=3D Ray=3D20 Krause
Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 1:51 PM
To: =3D pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: = Re: Pietenpol-List: =3D Sky=3D20 =
Scout...
Gary,
If I made =3D these 22"=3D20 struts (front/center) from
metal, they would = weigh 22+ ounces without =3D the=3D20
ends. How did you decide on the = thickness and shape for the
struts? =3D Why did=3D20 you chose Hickory versus, say = ash?
Did you laminate because you =3D needed=3D20 to get to a
certain = thickness, or for strength? There is a =3D source
for=3D20 hickory and ash that = has 2" (8/4) material in Chico,
I think. I =3D got some=3D20 1" ash for = 2.37 per board
foot.
Are your =3D "flying=3D20 struts" (the long struts)
also hickory? = What=3D20 shape?
Thanks,
Ray=3D20 Krause.
P.S. The =3D aerostream=3D20 tubing is very expensive,
about $56.00 per = front strut ($28.00/ft and =3D .7593=3D20
lbs/ft). Wicks has it for $17.00/ft = right now. I am not sure of
its =3D quality.=3D20 None of the aerotubing matches = the
recommended sizes on the plans (1.5 =3D X .75=3D20 and 2" X
1").
----- =3D Original=3D20 Message -----
From: Gary=3D20 Boothe
To: pietenpol-list@matron= ics.com=3D =3D20
Sent: =3D Monday, February=3D20 22, 2010 7:31 AM
Subject: RE:=3D20 Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout...
Ray,
I had a couple free minutes before I took = =3D off
for the=3D20 week. It took 10 seconds to pull off one of the rear
= cabanes. It =3D measures=3D20 21" end-to-end, and weighs 18
oz (had to use the = postal=3D20 scales!).
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, =3D = mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(18 ribs down=3D85)
-----Original Message-----
From: = owner-pi= etenpol=3D
-list-server@matronics.com=3D20
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of =
Ray=3D20 Krause
Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 8:54 PM
To:=3D20 pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: = Sky=3D20 Scout...
Krause"=3D20 <raykrause@frontiernet.net>
Shad,
Thanks for the comments on the = struts. =3D I
will=3D20 probably go with the 4130
struts from Wicks. It is just that I = =3D
really=3D20 enjoy the wood working. If the
wood were comparable, I would maybe go = that=3D20
way.
I would appreciate the Dillsburg Aero =3D Reference.
=3D20 The size of the metal
struts is included in the plans; so I can = =3D
probably get=3D20 pretty close to the
right size.
Thanks for your help.
Ray Krause
----- Original Message ----- =
From: "shad bell"=3D20 <aviatorbell@yahoo.com>
To:=3D20 <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 = 5:33=3D20 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky=3D20 Scout...
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted = =3D by:
shad=3D20 bell <aviatorbell@yahoo.com>
>
>
> Ray, I am not 100% sure but I would = bet =3D
wooden=3D20 struts are heavier than
> streamlined tube. The bolts, = and =3D steel
end=3D20 fittings that would be
> required add up fast. As for = the =3D
older=3D20 metal designation, just usse 4130,
> If you need I can see what dimensions = =3D ours
are,=3D20 some where in the 2 inch
> by 9/16 (minor axis) .049 wall =3D thickness. =3D20
also check dillsburg aero works =
> for tube prices, wicks is also having = a =3D
special=3D20 "sale" on streamlined
> tubing of some dimensions. I = can =3D look
up=3D20 the number for Dillsburg Aero
> Works in PA if you need me to, I have = a =3D
price=3D20 list out in my hanger, he
> does not have a web =3D = site.
>
>
> Shad
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
<=3D/PRE>http://=www.mat=3Dronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List&=l
t;=3DB><=3D/PRE>http://forums.matronics.com=3D<=3D/PRE>=3Dhttp:
//www.matronic=s.com/c=3Dontribution<=3D/PRE>
href=3D3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://ww=
w.mat=3Dronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhref=3D3D"http://forums.ma
tronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com=
href=3D3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.=
com/c=3D
3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=
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igator?Pietenpol-List"'>http://www=.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-L
ist3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D
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D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D=3D=3
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=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D=3Dhref=
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/contribution3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=
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D=3D=3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3
D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D=3D ~=B2=03r
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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ww.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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atronics.com"'>http://forums.matronics.com3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
~=B2
------------------------------------------------------------------------
r
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics.
comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
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| Subject: | Re: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder |
On the Scout I'm building I ran a second set of cables for the tail wheel.
One thing I learned is that the control horn should have about the same
cable to cable distance as the rudder horn. Longer makes the wheel travel
less than the rudder and shorter make the wheel travel further. The first
one I made was short, it made the cable bend around the wheel.
Howdy
Message 45
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| Subject: | Re: Dillsburg Areo |
Thanks, Shad. I will do that.
Ray Krause
----- Original Message -----
From: shad bell
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 5:23 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Dillsburg Areo
Ray, and others, The PH number for Dillsburg Aeroworks is
717-432-4589, they have the best price on pretty much any size tubing
you need. Mr Vogalsong (The owner) is an old timer who knows his stuff
(From what I gather) has built 1 or 2 airplanes, bicycles etc etc. Give
him a call and have him send you a price sheet on his inventory. He
caries some AN hardware, plumbing fittings and other odds and ends.
FYI, to get his best prices you will want to buy full lengths of tubing,
16-18ft ea. He will cut to 8ft so it can be shipped UPS, for no charge.
Give him a call.
Shad
Message 46
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| Subject: | Re: Sky Scout... |
Thanks, Santiago. Guess I have a lot of things to consider, now.
Somehow, I am not convinced that round struts would be any worse than
the streamlined struts. The Piets are pretty draggy!
Ray Krause
----- Original Message -----
From: santiago morete
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 8:06 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout...
Hi Ray,
I think you can use 4130 steel, 1025 steel, aluminum or wood,
round or streamlined struts, all that has been used successfully. My
round, 1025 steel struts weigh about 5 pounds each.
Saludos
Santiago
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Encontra las mejores recetas con Yahoo! Cocina.
http://ar.mujer.yahoo.com/cocina/
Message 47
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| Subject: | Re: Larry Williams, Aluminum struts |
Michael,
Thanks for the photo. These struts look great. The metal work looks
pretty easy, too.
Ray Krause
----- Original Message -----
From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 11:06 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Larry Williams, Aluminum struts
As always, Chris Tracy's Westcoastpiet.com 'pictures' web site comes
in with excellent value.
For more photos go there, under Larry Williams.
Message 48
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| Subject: | Red Betsy - on to Boscobel |
Dan Hi from UK.
I digress......
I spotted the word Boscobel in your e-mail and instantly went back to the
early 60=B9s when I joined the Royal Air Force.
Initial Training started at RAF Cosford in the West Midlands with the
Station Emblem referred to as the Boscobel Oak.
Nearby was the Village of Boscobel and in true military style we all marche
d
to see what was purported to be the Royal Oak in the Village. I=B9m guessing
Boscobel, WI must have some roots back to that Shropshire Village.
King Charles hid in the Oak and a nearby Manor House from the pursuing
Troops of Oliver Cromwell. Those were the days.....politics had a bit of a
bite and you could lose your head!
Some information:
http://www.timetravel-britain.com/articles/houses/boscobel.shtml
Regards
Gerry
do not archive
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