Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:29 AM - Re: Sky Scout... (Jack)
2. 03:47 AM - Re: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder (bill55)
3. 04:23 AM - Re: Red Betsy - on to Boscobel (helspersew@aol.com)
4. 04:33 AM - Re: Re: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder (H RULE)
5. 04:37 AM - Re: Re: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder (helspersew@aol.com)
6. 04:57 AM - Re: Sky Scout... (Kip and Beth Gardner)
7. 06:11 AM - Sky Scout... (Oscar Zuniga)
8. 06:40 AM - Re: Re: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder (Jim Ash)
9. 06:51 AM - Dick's new Piet (Douwe Blumberg)
10. 07:13 AM - Re: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder (Skip Gadd)
11. 07:22 AM - Doesn't the GN-1 Grega have a beefed up rudder to steer the tailwheel ? (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
12. 07:40 AM - Re: Re: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder (David Paule)
13. 07:48 AM - Re: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder (Jeff Boatright)
14. 08:09 AM - Dick's two cylinder Harley engine (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
15. 08:09 AM - Re: Doesn't the GN-1 Grega have a beefed up rudder to steer the tailwheel ? (Skip Gadd)
16. 08:12 AM - Newest Piet video (Jeff Boatright)
17. 08:12 AM - Sky Scout... (santiago morete)
18. 08:15 AM - Re: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder (Rick Holland)
19. 08:19 AM - Piet Pitts Death Ray (Jeff Boatright)
20. 08:21 AM - Re: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder (Gary Boothe)
21. 08:38 AM - Re: Piet Pitts Death Ray (Jeff Boatright)
22. 08:39 AM - Outstanding video Jeff ! Piet Pitts Death Ray (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
23. 08:53 AM - Re: Red Betsy - on to Boscobel (taildrags)
24. 09:02 AM - Re: Sky Scout... (Rick Holland)
25. 09:13 AM - Re: Sky Scout... (Jeff Boatright)
26. 09:26 AM - Re: Dick's two cylinder Harley engine (Dick N)
27. 09:29 AM - Re: Outstanding video Jeff ! Piet Pitts Death Ray (Jeff Boatright)
28. 09:32 AM - Re: Dick's new Piet (Dick N)
29. 09:39 AM - Re: Re: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder (Jim Ash)
30. 09:40 AM - Re: Dick's two cylinder Harley engine (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
31. 10:02 AM - Re: Dick's new Piet (Jim Markle)
32. 10:02 AM - Re: Dick's two cylinder Harley engine (Rick Holland)
33. 10:43 AM - Re: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder (Skip Gadd)
34. 10:45 AM - Re: Sky Scout... (taildrags)
35. 11:12 AM - Re: Re: Sky Scout... (Jeff Boatright)
36. 11:13 AM - Re: Sky Scout... (David Paule)
37. 11:25 AM - Re: Sky Scout... (taildrags)
38. 12:25 PM - Re: Re: Sky Scout... (David Paule)
39. 12:55 PM - Re: Sky Scout... (Bill Church)
40. 01:04 PM - Re: Re: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder (David Paule)
41. 01:54 PM - Re: Sky Scout... (Ray Krause)
42. 01:54 PM - Re: Sky Scout... (Ray Krause)
43. 01:55 PM - Re: Sky Scout... (Ray Krause)
44. 02:04 PM - Re: Re: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder (Ray Krause)
45. 02:37 PM - Re: Dick's two cylinder Harley engine (Bill Church)
46. 02:58 PM - Re: Dick's two cylinder Harley engine (dwilson)
47. 03:52 PM - another Russian Aircamper (Michael Silvius)
48. 03:52 PM - Re: Sky Scout... (Dave Abramson)
49. 03:56 PM - Re: Sky Scout... (Ray Krause)
50. 04:55 PM - Re: Re: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder (Jim Ash)
51. 05:44 PM - Re: laminating struts and tv (dgaldrich)
52. 05:54 PM - Tailwheel & shimmy (santiago morete)
53. 06:58 PM - Re: Tailwheel & shimmy (Clif Dawson)
54. 06:59 PM - Sky Scout.."Glue" question? (Ray Krause)
55. 07:50 PM - Re: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder (Gene Rambo)
56. 07:52 PM - Re: Tailwheel & shimmy (Gary Boothe)
57. 07:53 PM - Re: Sky Scout.."Glue" question? (Gene Rambo)
58. 08:54 PM - Tailwheel & shimmy (santiago morete)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Ray,
You could consider a built up spar like attached. They are a lot of
work
but strong and just a bit less expensive that solid. There are more
pictures at www.textors.com.
Jack
DSM
Thanks, Gary.
The wing is exactly the same, except 27" shorter. Routing would be a
lot of
work, but doable. The ribs I got with the other wood are all built and
seem
to be made for the 1" spar. I will have to make a decision on which way
to
go.
I have been putting in hard points in the fuselage for the seat and
shoulder
safety belts; thankfully I only need one set! I put the hard pints one
station behind the seat, so I will have to find the right seat belts to
fit.
ACS has some that might work, when I get that far. Got the turtle deck
mostly done today, that was fun.
Thanks for the help.
Ray Krause
P.S. Guess I will have to take the Waiex to the Peit fly in.
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Boothe <mailto:gboothe5@comcast.net>
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 7:59 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout...
No problem, Ray. I took your meaning to be, would the same information
apply
to a Sky Scout. Having never seen Sky Scout plans, I could not say, with
real authority, that a =BE=94 spar is OK for the Sky Scout; however, it
is my
understanding that the two airplanes are very similar, maybe even the
same
wing. Lots of conversations on this list point out that vintage aircraft
such as the T-craft or Piper Cub, have used an assortment of spar
materials,
=BE=94 thick. It is my recollection that the same conversation led to
the
agreement that, after routing, you basically end up with a =BE=94 spar,
anyhow.
Please, someone (I know this is a bashful group), if I have mis-directed
Ray, please jump in!
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
18 ribs done
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ray
Krause
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 12:29 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout...
Gary,
Thanks. I became confused answering all the e-mails that I started with
these questions. I know that you are building an Air Camper! Thanks
for
the info on the spars.
Ray Krause
----- Original Message -----
From: gboothe5@comcast.net
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 12:15 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout...
Negative.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
_____
From: "Ray Krause" <raykrause@frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout...
Gary,
Thanks for the information. If = using the 3/4" spar material,
would I
still rout out the spar as shown in the = plans? Are you
building a Sky
Scout?
Ray Krause
----- Original Message -----
From: gboothe5@comcast.net
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, = 2010 9:15 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: = Sky Scout...
Ray,
FYI...3/4" is an acceptable dimension for = spars.
Gary
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
_____
From: "Ray Krause" <raykrause@frontiernet.net&g= t;
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout...
Thanks, Gary.
I will accept your humility with a = =3D grain of=3D20 salt!
Your
beautiful workmanship attests to your =3D abilities!
The point about laminating to avoid = =3D wood defects
is=3D20 well
taken, I will follow suit. After = computing the costs of =3D
the=3D20
metal struts, I am leaning towards the wood = struts! As far as
the =3D
spars=3D20 go, they were included in the wood I got = with the
Sky Scout
package; =3D they are=3D20 spruce. But rather than the 1" =
thickness,
they are 3/4", I think I =3D will=3D20 sandwich then with two pieces
= of
1/8" birch plywood to get the 1" (so =3D they fit=3D20 the
ribs). = The
Hughes Hardwood =3D place in=3D20 Chico = had beautiful
parallel grain
fir that would have made beautiful =3D spars,=3D20 = cheap,
too. Next
time I am in Chico, I will check out the =3D = hickory. =3D20
The ash
seems to be really dense/heavy (stronger than hickory?). = I
=3D
will=3D20 try to look it up.
Thanks for the response. And yes, I = =3D have
referenced=3D20 Chris's
web site and printed many photos.... but it = makes my eyes and
=3D
brain=3D20 hurt!
Ray
----- Original Message -----
From:=3D20 Gary=3D20 Boothe
Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 =3D = 3:17=3D20 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: =3D Sky=3D20 = Scout...
Ray,
Your=3D20 questions are intelligent and = educated=3D85.attributes
to
which I make =3D no personal=3D20 claim. In all honesty, I perused
= the
West Coast Piet web site to =3D exhaustion.=3D20 Too bad Chris
Tracy
doesn=3D92t have sponsors, or he=3D92d be a rich man! =3D
After=3D20
looking at every = application of wood strut that has been built
and is
=3D flying,=3D20 I decided = it was doable. Conversations
about
appropriate woods went =3D from ash=3D20 = to spruce,
including hickory.
I decided that I liked the look of =3D hickory = and=3D20 the
decision
was that easy. For size, I just used the plans dimensions = =3D
for=3D20
steel.
Later=3D20 conversations with another builder (either = Cliff
Dawson or
Douwe =3D Blumberg),=3D20 far more intelligent and = educated
than I,
showed published =3D strengths of=3D20 various woods, and =
verified that
hickory had plenty of strength for =3D our=3D20 purposes. I think I
= can
find that email, but it=3D92s on my other =3D computer
at=3D20 home.
My=3D20 wing struts will also be hickory, roughly the = shape
and size on
the =3D plans.=3D20 Connections will surely be similar to =
Douwe=3D92s.
All cabanes and wing =3D struts are=3D20 laminated
because=3D85.that=3D92s what everyone does! Really, it gives
you =3D
an=3D20 opportunity to rotate the = grain and eliminate the
possibility
of =3D having a weak=3D20 link. Also, it = looks really cool!
My=3D20 wood source is a local hardwood supplier, in = Auburn,
Ca
(California=3D20 Hardwoods), who does his own wholesale purchasing =
in
whatever length =3D and size=3D20 needed. He even mills, if
necessary. He
= located my fir spars and sold =3D all four=3D20 for $185!!
Bonus is
that he helped = build some wood airplanes and knows =3D
what=3D20 grains
to look = for.
Further=3D20 note: If anything goes wrong, = I=3D92ll blame
Chris Tracy
for =3D publishing all=3D20 those = photos!
Gary=3D20 Boothe
Cool,=3D20 CA
Pietenpol
WW=3D20 Corvair Conversion
Tail=3D20 done, Fuselage on gear
18=3D20 ribs done
From:=3D20 owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com=3D20
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of =
=3D
Ray=3D20 Krause
Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 1:51 PM
Subject: = Re: Pietenpol-List: =3D Sky=3D20 = Scout...
Gary,
If I made =3D these 22"=3D20 struts (front/center) from metal,
they would
= weigh 22+ ounces without =3D the=3D20 ends. How did you
decide on the
thickness and shape for the struts? =3D Why did=3D20 you chose
Hickory
versus, say = ash? Did you laminate because you =3D
needed=3D20 to get
to a certain = thickness, or for strength? There is a =3D
source
for=3D20 hickory and ash that = has 2" (8/4) material in Chico,
I think.
I =3D got some=3D20 1" ash for = 2.37 per board foot.
Are your =3D "flying=3D20 struts" (the long struts) also
hickory?
What=3D20 shape?
Thanks,
Ray=3D20 Krause.
P.S. The =3D aerostream=3D20 tubing is very expensive, about
$56.00 per
front strut ($28.00/ft and =3D .7593=3D20 lbs/ft). Wicks has it
for
$17.00/ft = right now. I am not sure of its =3D quality.=3D20
None of the
aerotubing matches = the recommended sizes on the plans (1.5
=3D X
.75=3D20 and 2" X 1").
----- =3D Original=3D20 Message -----
From: Gary=3D20 Boothe
Sent: =3D Monday, February=3D20 22, 2010 7:31 AM
Subject: RE:=3D20 Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout...
Ray,
I had a couple free minutes before I took = =3D off for
the=3D20 week. It
took 10 seconds to pull off one of the rear = cabanes. It =3D
measures=3D20 21" end-to-end, and weighs 18 oz (had to use the
postal=3D20 scales!).
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, =3D = mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(18 ribs down=3D85)
-----Original Message-----
From: = owner-pi= etenpol=3D
-list-server@matronics.com=3D20
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Ray=3D20 Krause
Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 8:54 PM
To:=3D20 pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: = Sky=3D20 Scout...
<raykrause@frontiernet.net>
Shad,
Thanks for the comments on the = struts. =3D I will=3D20
probably go
with the 4130
struts from Wicks. It is just that I = =3D really=3D20 enjoy
the wood
working. If the
wood were comparable, I would maybe go = that=3D20 way.
I would appreciate the Dillsburg Aero =3D Reference. =3D20 The
size of
the metal
struts is included in the plans; so I can = =3D probably
get=3D20 pretty
close to the
right size.
Thanks for your help.
Ray Krause
----- Original Message ----- =
From: "shad bell"=3D20 <aviatorbell@yahoo.com>
To:=3D20 <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 = 5:33=3D20 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky=3D20 Scout...
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted = =3D by: shad=3D20 bell
<aviatorbell@yahoo.com>
>
>
> Ray, I am not 100% sure but I would = bet =3D wooden=3D20
struts are
heavier than
> streamlined tube. The bolts, = and =3D steel end=3D20
fittings that
would be
> required add up fast. As for = the =3D older=3D20 metal
designation,
just usse 4130,
> If you need I can see what dimensions = =3D ours are,=3D20
some where
in the 2 inch
> by 9/16 (minor axis) .049 wall =3D thickness. =3D20 also
check
dillsburg aero works =
> for tube prices, wicks is also having = a =3D special=3D20
"sale" on
streamlined
> tubing of some dimensions. I = can =3D look up=3D20 the
number for
Dillsburg Aero
> Works in PA if you need me to, I have = a =3D price=3D20
list out in my
hanger, he
> does not have a web =3D = site.
>
>
> Shad
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
<=3D
/PRE>
http://
www.mat=3D
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
&
lt;=3D
B><=3D
/PRE>
http://forums.matronics.com=3D
<=3D
/PRE>
=3D
http://www.matronic
s.com/c=3D
ontribution
<=3D
/PRE>
href=3D3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://ww=
w.mat=3D
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href=3D3D"http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href=3D3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.=
com/c=3D
3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=
3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D
3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=
3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D
3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=
3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D
3D
href=3D'3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"'>http://w
ww
.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=
3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D
3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=
3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D
3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=
3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D
3D
href=3D'3D"http://forums.matronics.com"'>http://forums.matronics.com
3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=
3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D
3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=
3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D
3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=
3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D
3D
href=3D'3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"'>http://www.matronics
.c
om/contribution
3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=
3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D
3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=
3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D
3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=
3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D
3D
~=B2=03r
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"'>http://www
.matr
onics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
href='3D"http://forums.matronics.com"'>http://forums.matronics.com
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"'>http://www.matronics.c
om/co
ntribution
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
~=B2
_____
r
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronic
s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder |
Dan,
We just finished and test flew the Model A powered Sky Scout based in Brodhead
(this past November) and originally had the tail skid. It did not take long to
realize we needed a steerable tail wheel! We used a Ken Perkins design (due
to time constraint) and attached to the lower rudder with light springs (as Dennis
Hall on his Aircamper). The process worked great except for the full swivel
design of the tail wheel. I machined that out and the airplane flys and
ground handles great. Feel free to check it out at Brodhead as anyone knows how
to get into my hangar. I was always apprehensive about the horns on the lower
rudder but am convinced this is logical solution (and possibly lighter?)
Bill Liimatainen
Monroe, Wisconsin
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288111#288111
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Red Betsy - on to Boscobel |
Hi Gerry,
Thanks for that historical link. I myself love history, and especially enj
oy reading the logs and accounts of James Cook and William Bligh, and the
like. I am always amazed at how little things and people really change.
I guess you can't take the human being out of the human.
Dan
-----Original Message-----
From: Gerry Holland <gholland@content-stream.co.uk>
Sent: Thu, Feb 25, 2010 12:58 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Red Betsy - on to Boscobel
Dan Hi from UK.
I digress......
I spotted the word Boscobel in your e-mail and instantly went back to the
early 60=99s when I joined the Royal Air Force.
Initial Training started at RAF Cosford in the West Midlands with the Stat
ion Emblem referred to as the Boscobel Oak.
Nearby was the Village of Boscobel and in true military style we all march
ed to see what was purported to be the Royal Oak in the Village. I
=99m guessing Boscobel, WI must have some roots back to that Shropshire Vi
llage.
King Charles hid in the Oak and a nearby Manor House from the pursuing Tro
ops of Oliver Cromwell. Those were the days.....politics had a bit of a bi
te and you could lose your head!
Some information:
http://www.timetravel-britain.com/articles/houses/boscobel.shtml
Regards
Gerry
do not archive
========================
===========
-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
-
-========================
========================
===========
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
========================
===========
-= - List Contribution Web Site -
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
========================
===========
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder |
I to was worried about the horns on the tail rudder section so I removed th
e the whole thing and I plan on running cables down to the tail wheel horn
from the rudder peddles.I didn't like the ideas of all that pressure on the
wood.Had it have been made out of metal I wouldn't think twice about using
the horn on it.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: bil
l55 <bliimatainen@antennaplus.com>=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0ASen
t: Thu, February 25, 2010 6:47:17 AM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steerab
bill55" <bliimatainen@antennaplus.com>=0A=0ADan,=0A=0AWe just finished and
test flew the Model A powered Sky Scout based in Brodhead (this past Novemb
er) and originally had the tail skid.- It did not take long to realize we
needed a steerable tail wheel!- We used a Ken Perkins design (due to tim
e constraint) and attached to the lower rudder with light springs (as Denni
s Hall on his Aircamper).- The process worked great except for the full s
wivel design of the tail wheel.- I machined that out and the airplane fly
s and ground handles great.- Feel free to check it out at Brodhead as any
one knows how to get into my hangar.- I was always apprehensive about the
horns on the lower rudder but am convinced this is logical solution (and p
ossibly lighter?) =0A=0ABill Liimatainen=0AMonroe, Wisconsin=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
Read this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php
- - - - - - - - - - - - -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
====
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder |
That settles it, I already have some light weight springs I bought from Mc
masters. Hook to rudder!
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: bill55 <bliimatainen@antennaplus.com>
Sent: Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:47 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder
om>
Dan,
We just finished and test flew the Model A powered Sky Scout based in Brod
head
this past November) and originally had the tail skid. It did not take lon
g to
ealize we needed a steerable tail wheel! We used a Ken Perkins design (du
e to
ime constraint) and attached to the lower rudder with light springs (as De
nnis
all on his Aircamper). The process worked great except for the full swive
l
esign of the tail wheel. I machined that out and the airplane flys and gr
ound
andles great. Feel free to check it out at Brodhead as anyone knows how
to get
nto my hangar. I was always apprehensive about the horns on the lower rud
der
ut am convinced this is logical solution (and possibly lighter?)
Bill Liimatainen
onroe, Wisconsin
ead this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288111#288111
========================
===========
-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
-
-========================
========================
===========
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
========================
===========
-= - List Contribution Web Site -
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
========================
===========
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Sky Scout... |
Ray, put 1/2" wide 1/8" plywood doublers on either side of your 3/4"
spar at each rib station and the problem is solved. This is what I'm
doing on mine, since I inherited 3/4" spars when I bought the
project. Keeping the rib openings at 1" allows you to slide them
over all the doubler plates for the lift strut attachment fittings,
wing tip a bow attach fittings, etc. If you make the openings 3/4",
then you have to slide all the ribs on & then glue all the doublers
in place, which seems like a trickier prospect than being able to
glue them on with the spar laying flat on a bench.
Kip Gardner
On Feb 24, 2010, at 11:19 PM, Ray Krause wrote:
> Thanks, Gary.
>
> The wing is exactly the same, except 27" shorter. Routing would be
> a lot of work, but doable. The ribs I got with the other wood are
> all built and seem to be made for the 1" spar. I will have to make
> a decision on which way to go.
>
> I have been putting in hard points in the fuselage for the seat and
> shoulder safety belts; thankfully I only need one set! I put the
> hard pints one station behind the seat, so I will have to find the
> right seat belts to fit. ACS has some that might work, when I get
> that far. Got the turtle deck mostly done today, that was fun.
>
> Thanks for the help.
>
> Ray Krause
>
> P.S. Guess I will have to take the Waiex to the Peit fly in.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Gary Boothe
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 7:59 PM
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout...
>
> No problem, Ray. I took your meaning to be, would the same
> information apply to a Sky Scout. Having never seen Sky Scout
> plans, I could not say, with real authority, that a =BE=94 spar is OK
> for the Sky Scout; however, it is my understanding that the two
> airplanes are very similar, maybe even the same wing. Lots of
> conversations on this list point out that vintage aircraft such as
> the T-craft or Piper Cub, have used an assortment of spar
> materials, =BE=94 thick. It is my recollection that the same
> conversation led to the agreement that, after routing, you
> basically end up with a =BE=94 spar, anyhow.
>
> Please, someone (I know this is a bashful group), if I have mis-
> directed Ray, please jump in!
>
> Gary Boothe
> Cool, CA
> Pietenpol
> WW Corvair Conversion
> Tail done, Fuselage on gear
> 18 ribs done
>
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-
> pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ray Krause
> Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 12:29 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout...
>
> Gary,
>
> Thanks. I became confused answering all the e-mails that I started
> with these questions. I know that you are building an Air Camper!
> Thanks for the info on the spars.
>
> Ray Krause
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: gboothe5@comcast.net
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 12:15 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout...
>
> Negative.
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> From: "Ray Krause" <raykrause@frontiernet.net>
> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:24:54 -0800
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout...
>
> Gary,
>
> Thanks for the information. If = using the 3/4" spar material,
> would I still rout out the spar as shown in the = plans? Are
> you building a Sky Scout?
>
> Ray Krause
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: gboothe5@comcast.net
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=
> Sent: Tuesday, February 23, = 2010 9:15 AM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: = Sky Scout...
>
> Ray,
>
> FYI...3/4" is an acceptable dimension for = spars.
>
> Gary
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> From: "Ray Krause" <raykrause@frontiernet.net&g= t;
> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 07:59:45 -0800
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com= >
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout...
>
> Thanks, Gary.
>
> I will accept your humility with a = =3D grain of=3D20
salt!
> Your beautiful workmanship attests to your =3D abilities!
>
> The point about laminating to avoid = =3D wood defects
is=3D20
> well taken, I will follow suit. After = computing the costs
of
> =3D the=3D20 metal struts, I am leaning towards the wood =
struts!
> As far as the =3D spars=3D20 go, they were included in the
wood
> I got = with the Sky Scout package; =3D they are=3D20
spruce.
> But rather than the 1" = thickness, they are 3/4", I think I
=3D
> will=3D20 sandwich then with two pieces = of 1/8" birch
plywood
> to get the 1" (so =3D they fit=3D20 the ribs). = The Hughes
> Hardwood =3D place in=3D20 Chico = had beautiful parallel
grain
> fir that would have made beautiful =3D spars,=3D20 = cheap,
> too. Next time I am in Chico, I will check out the =3D = hickory.
> =3D20 The ash seems to be really dense/heavy (stronger than
> hickory?). = I =3D will=3D20 try to look it up.
>
> Thanks for the response. And yes, I = =3D have
referenced=3D20
> Chris's web site and printed many photos.... but it = makes my
> eyes and =3D brain=3D20 hurt!
>
> Ray
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:=3D20 Gary=3D20 Boothe
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics= .com=3D =3D20
> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 =3D = 3:17=3D20 PM
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: =3D Sky=3D20 = Scout...
>
> Ray,
>
> Your=3D20 questions are intelligent and = educated=3D85.attributes
> to which I make =3D no personal=3D20 claim. In all honesty, I
> perused = the West Coast Piet web site to =3D
exhaustion.=3D20
> Too bad Chris Tracy = doesn=3D92t have sponsors, or he=3D92d
be
> a rich man! =3D After=3D20 looking at every = application
of
> wood strut that has been built and is =3D flying,=3D20 I decided =
> it was doable. Conversations about appropriate woods went =3D
> from ash=3D20 = to spruce, including hickory. I decided that
I
> liked the look of =3D hickory = and=3D20 the decision was
that
> easy. For size, I just used the plans dimensions = =3D for=3D20=
20
> steel.
>
> Later=3D20 conversations with another builder (either = Cliff
> Dawson or Douwe =3D Blumberg),=3D20 far more intelligent and =
> educated than I, showed published =3D strengths of=3D20
various
> woods, and = verified that hickory had plenty of strength for
> =3D our=3D20 purposes. I think I = can find that email, but
> it=3D92s on my other =3D computer at=3D20 home.
>
> My=3D20 wing struts will also be hickory, roughly the = shape
> and size on the =3D plans.=3D20 Connections will surely be
> similar to = Douwe=3D92s. All cabanes and wing =3D struts
> are=3D20 laminated = because=3D85.that=3D92s what everyone
does!
> Really, it gives you =3D an=3D20 opportunity to rotate the =
grain
> and eliminate the possibility of =3D having a weak=3D20 link.
> Also, it = looks really cool!
>
> My=3D20 wood source is a local hardwood supplier, in = Auburn,
> Ca (California=3D20 Hardwoods), who does his own wholesale
> purchasing = in whatever length =3D and size=3D20 needed.
He
> even mills, if necessary. He = located my fir spars and sold
=3D
> all four=3D20 for $185!! Bonus is that he helped = build some
> wood airplanes and knows =3D what=3D20 grains to look = for.
>
> Further=3D20 note: If anything goes wrong, = I=3D92ll blame
> Chris Tracy for =3D publishing all=3D20 those = photos!
>
> Gary=3D20 Boothe
>
> Cool,=3D20 CA
>
> Pietenpol
>
> WW=3D20 Corvair Conversion
>
> Tail=3D20 done, Fuselage on gear
>
> 18=3D20 ribs done
>
> From:=3D20 owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com=3D20
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of =
> =3D Ray=3D20 Krause
> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 1:51 PM
> To: =3D pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: = Re: Pietenpol-List: =3D Sky=3D20 = Scout...
>
> Gary,
>
> If I made =3D these 22"=3D20 struts (front/center) from
metal,
> they would = weigh 22+ ounces without =3D the=3D20 ends.
How did
> you decide on the = thickness and shape for the struts? =3D
Why
> did=3D20 you chose Hickory versus, say = ash? Did you
laminate
> because you =3D needed=3D20 to get to a certain = thickness, or
> for strength? There is a =3D source for=3D20 hickory and ash
> that = has 2" (8/4) material in Chico, I think. I =3D got
> some=3D20 1" ash for = 2.37 per board foot.
>
> Are your =3D "flying=3D20 struts" (the long struts) also
> hickory? = What=3D20 shape?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ray=3D20 Krause.
>
> P.S. The =3D aerostream=3D20 tubing is very expensive, about
> $56.00 per = front strut ($28.00/ft and =3D .7593=3D20
lbs/ft).
> Wicks has it for $17.00/ft = right now. I am not sure of its
=3D
> quality.=3D20 None of the aerotubing matches = the
recommended
> sizes on the plans (1.5 =3D X .75=3D20 and 2" X 1").
>
> ----- =3D Original=3D20 Message -----
>
> From: Gary=3D20 Boothe
>
> To: pietenpol-list@matron= ics.com=3D =3D20
>
> Sent: =3D Monday, February=3D20 22, 2010 7:31 AM
>
> Subject: RE:=3D20 Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout...
>
> Ray,
>
> I had a couple free minutes before I took = =3D off for
the=3D20
> week. It took 10 seconds to pull off one of the rear = cabanes. It
> =3D measures=3D20 21" end-to-end, and weighs 18 oz (had to
use
> the = postal=3D20 scales!).
>
> Gary Boothe
>
> Cool, Ca.
>
> Pietenpol
>
> WW Corvair Conversion, =3D = mounted
>
> Tail done, Fuselage on gear
>
> (18 ribs down=3D85)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: = owner-pi= etenpol=3D
-list-server@matronics.com=3D20
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of =
> Ray=3D20 Krause
> Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 8:54 PM
> To:=3D20 pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: = Sky=3D20 Scout...
>
> <raykrause@frontiernet.net>
>
> Shad,
>
> Thanks for the comments on the = struts. =3D I will=3D20
> probably go with the 4130
>
> struts from Wicks. It is just that I = =3D really=3D20
enjoy
> the wood working. If the
>
> wood were comparable, I would maybe go = that=3D20 way.
>
> I would appreciate the Dillsburg Aero =3D Reference. =3D20
The
> size of the metal
>
> struts is included in the plans; so I can = =3D probably
> get=3D20 pretty close to the
>
> right size.
>
> Thanks for your help.
>
> Ray Krause
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: "shad bell"=3D20 <aviatorbell@yahoo.com>
>
> To:=3D20 <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>
> Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 = 5:33=3D20 PM
>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky=3D20 Scout...
>
> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted = =3D by: shad=3D20
bell
> <aviatorbell@yahoo.com>
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Ray, I am not 100% sure but I would = bet =3D wooden=3D20
> struts are heavier than
>
> > streamlined tube. The bolts, = and =3D steel end=3D20
> fittings that would be
>
> > required add up fast. As for = the =3D older=3D20 metal
> designation, just usse 4130,
>
> > If you need I can see what dimensions = =3D ours are,=3D20
> some where in the 2 inch
>
> > by 9/16 (minor axis) .049 wall =3D thickness. =3D20 also
check
> dillsburg aero works
>
> > for tube prices, wicks is also having = a =3D special=3D20
> "sale" on streamlined
>
> > tubing of some dimensions. I = can =3D look up=3D20 the
> number for Dillsburg Aero
>
> > Works in PA if you need me to, I have = a =3D price=3D20
list
> out in my hanger, he
>
> > does not have a web =3D = site.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Shad
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
>
> <=3D
> /PRE>
> http://
> www.mat=3D
> ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> &
> lt;=3D
> B><=3D
> /PRE>
> http://forums.matronics.com=3D
> <=3D
> /PRE>
> =3D
> http://www.matronic
> s.com/c=3D
> ontribution
> <=3D
> /PRE>
>
>
> href=3D3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://
> ww
> w.mat=3D
> ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> href=3D3D"http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
> href=3D3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://
> www.matronics.
> com/c=3D
>
>
> 3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D
=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D
> 3D=3D
> 3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D
=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D
> 3D=3D
> 3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D
=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D
> 3D=3D
> 3D
> href=3D'3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-
> List"'>http://www
> .matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> 3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D
=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D
> 3D=3D
> 3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D
=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D
> 3D=3D
> 3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D
=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D
> 3D=3D
> 3D
> href=3D'3D"http://forums.matronics.com"'>http://forums.matronics.com
> 3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D
=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D
> 3D=3D
> 3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D
=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D
> 3D=3D
> 3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D
=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D
> 3D=3D
> 3D
> href=3D'3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"'>http://
> www.matronics.c
> om/contribution
> 3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D
=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D
> 3D=3D
> 3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D
=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D
> 3D=3D
> 3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D
=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D
> 3D=3D
> 3D
>
>
> ~=B2=03r
>
>
> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"'>http://
> www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> href='3D"http://forums.matronics.com"'>http://forums.matronics.com
> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"'>http://
> www.matronics.com/contribution
> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
> ~=B2
> r
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> http://forums.matronics.com
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://
> www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://
> www.matronics.com/c
>
>
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Guys, if you don't already have the original
Flying & Glider Manuals, you should get a copy
by all means. Besides the Air Camper and Sky
Scout plans and details, there are a whole
bunch of other interesting aircraft in them,
well worth your time to peruse.
And for whoever mentioned that they didn't
think there was much difference in drag between
round and streamline tubing, there really is.
I can dig up the old aircraft design manual
that has a graph of relative drag between
round, simple teardrop, streamline, and one
or two other shapes. It's significant.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder |
Once upon a time I'd heard from others wiser than I that the two springs should
be different. This is so they apply unequal forces on the tailwheel and put a
light loading on the linkages. Otherwise, a force-neutral setup could allow an
unwanted oscillation which could ruin your day. Picture the flutter that would
happen if your elevator weren't loaded to one side; same concept.
Jim Ash
-----Original Message-----
From: helspersew@aol.com
Sent: Feb 25, 2010 7:35 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder
That settles it, I already have some light weight springs I bought from Mcmasters.
Hook to rudder!
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: bill55 <bliimatainen@antennaplus.com>
Sent: Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:47 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder
Dan,
We just finished and test flew the Model A powered Sky Scout based in Brodhead
(this past November) and originally had the tail skid. It did not take long to
realize we needed a steerable tail wheel! We used a Ken Perkins design (due to
time constraint) and attached to the lower rudder with light springs (as Dennis
Hall on his Aircamper). The process worked great except for the full swivel
design of the tail wheel. I machined that out and the airplane flys and ground
handles great. Feel free to check it out at Brodhead as anyone knows how to get
into my hangar. I was always apprehensive about the horns on the lower rudder
but am convinced this is logical solution (and possibly lighter?)
Bill Liimatainen
Monroe, Wisconsin
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288111#288111
===================================
t" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
===================================
tp://forums.matronics.com
===================================
_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===================================
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
So Dick,
What engine are you using? is this an aircamper or a scout? I'm always
interested in different engines.
Douwe
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder |
Dan,
I made a double horn for rudder and tailwheel steering so the torsional load from
the tailwheel would not have to travel through wood. Also since the rudder
horn is moved to the bottom of the rudder I added some extra support to spread
the load up the rudder. The horns are constructed like Pietenpols, two pieces
of .032 edge welded. The attached picture is the current status of the project,
so the design has not been flight tested.
Skip
----- Original Message -----
From:
Sent: 2/24/2010 7:48:58 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder
Hi Guys,
I have been wrestling with the engineering of making my free-castoring tailwheel
into a steerable type. The conventional wisdom on this list has been that one
should not connect the tailwheel with the rudder, as per the Aeronca Champ,
and many others of that era, due to the fact (?) that the wooden rudder is not
strong enough to handle the loads. I see that Ken Perkin's Time Machine is set-up
just that way.
Any new thoughts on this subject?
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Doesn't the GN-1 Grega have a beefed up rudder to steer |
the tailwheel ?
In looking at photos of uncovered GN-1 rudders I have seen they beef them u
p to handle the
tailwheel steering horn down low. Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe
the GN-1 Grega Air Camper
uses the rudder to steer the tailwheel.
The GN-1 tied out at my home airport for 30+ years had this rudder/tailwhee
l steering setup. It is now in
Elizabeth City, NC being restored and a set of wire wheels and streamlined
steel tube landing gear legs put
on that are painted up to resemble streamlined wood gear legs.
Mike C.
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder |
Not necessary. The tailwheel assembly has some friction; that dampens
the system and reduces the liklihood of oscillation.
Check out the local production taildraggers.
David Paule
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Ash" <ashcan@earthlink.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 7:40 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder
>
> Once upon a time I'd heard from others wiser than I that the two
springs should be different. This is so they apply unequal forces on the
tailwheel and put a light loading on the linkages. Otherwise, a
force-neutral setup could allow an unwanted oscillation which could ruin
your day. Picture the flutter that would happen if your elevator weren't
loaded to one side; same concept.
>
> Jim Ash
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: helspersew@aol.com
> Sent: Feb 25, 2010 7:35 AM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder
>
>
> That settles it, I already have some light weight springs I bought
from Mcmasters. Hook to rudder!
>
> Dan Helsper
> Poplar Grove, IL.
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bill55 <bliimatainen@antennaplus.com>
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:47 am
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder
>
>
<bliimatainen@antennaplus.com>
>
> Dan,
>
> We just finished and test flew the Model A powered Sky Scout based in
Brodhead
> (this past November) and originally had the tail skid. It did not
take long to
> realize we needed a steerable tail wheel! We used a Ken Perkins
design (due to
> time constraint) and attached to the lower rudder with light springs
(as Dennis
> Hall on his Aircamper). The process worked great except for the full
swivel
> design of the tail wheel. I machined that out and the airplane flys
and ground
> handles great. Feel free to check it out at Brodhead as anyone knows
how to get
> into my hangar. I was always apprehensive about the horns on the
lower rudder
> but am convinced this is logical solution (and possibly lighter?)
>
> Bill Liimatainen
> Monroe, Wisconsin
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288111#288111
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> t" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>
> tp://forums.matronics.com
>
> _blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder |
Regardless of whether the forces travel through wood or steel and
over what distance, my concern with this type of set-up is whether
the bottom hinge installation is sufficient to the task. The original
design is sufficient for flying loads. Now we're asking that hinge
and its attachments to take a bashing from everything the tailwheel
runs over and up against. Is the original design up to the task?
I've seen some rudder hinge installations that clearly can take it
(Skip's sure looks stout enough). I would not trust the one on our
Piet.
--
Jeff Boatright
"Now let's think about this..."
Message 14
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Dick's two cylinder Harley engine |
Here's a company who specializes in using Harley engines in airplanes.
Cool idea Dick ! It sounds pretty cool in this video too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSTRlAx_YSc
Message 15
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Doesn't the GN-1 Grega have a beefed up rudder to |
steer the tailwheel ?
You are correct Mike. Grega uses Pietenpols tail feather design, actually looks
like copies of Hoopman's 1934 drawings. Grega filled in the bottom rudder gusset
with spruce and also filled in between the lowest rudder rib capstrips from
the LE to main beam with spruce and than bolts the rudder horn to this spruce
fill-in.
Skip
----- Original Message -----
From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]
Sent: 2/25/2010 10:24:27 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Doesn't the GN-1 Grega have a beefed up rudder to steer
the tailwheel ?
In looking at photos of uncovered GN-1 rudders I have seen they beef them up to
handle the
tailwheel steering horn down low. Correct me if Im wrong but I believe the
GN-1 Grega Air Camper
uses the rudder to steer the tailwheel.
The GN-1 tied out at my home airport for 30+ years had this rudder/tailwheel steering
setup. It is now in
Elizabeth City, NC being restored and a set of wire wheels and streamlined steel
tube landing gear legs put
on that are painted up to resemble streamlined wood gear legs.
Mike C.
Message 16
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Newest Piet video |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3Tzms7Qxe8
--
Jeff Boatright
"Now let's think about this..."
Message 17
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Ray,
-
Round-tube are structurally better than streamlined struts,-subjected t
o-compression, but they are less efficient aerodynamically, as Oscar said
.- I chose round struts because that's what I can afford :-)
Attached is a photo of a beautiful Piet with round lift struts and streamli
ned-cabanes.
Saludos
-
Santiago=0A=0A=0A Yahoo! Cocina=0A=0AEncontra las mejores recetas con
Yahoo! Cocina.=0A=0A=0Ahttp://ar.mujer.yahoo.com/cocina/
Message 18
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder |
Excellent design Skip. I know we are not supposed to change anything
from the Piet plans but since the plans do not include a tailwheel
(and a left and right cable running to a tailwheel control horn), I
think we can give Skip official dispensation here. I think this design
simplifies and improves the design of any Piet incorporating a
tailwheel and is based on a flight proven design (the GN-1). I will do
it this way on my next Piet project.
Rick
On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 10:12 AM, Skip Gadd <skipgadd@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Dan,
> I made a double horn for rudder and tailwheel steering so the torsional load
> from the tailwheel would not have to travel through wood. Also since the
> rudder horn is moved to the bottom of the rudder I added some extra support
> to spread the load up the rudder. The horns are constructedlike
> Pietenpols, two pieces of .032 edge welded. The attached picture is the
> current status of the project, so the design has not been flight tested.
> Skip
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Sent: 2/24/2010 7:48:58 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder
> Hi Guys,
>
> I have been wrestling with the engineering of making my free-castoring
> tailwheel into a steerable type. The conventional wisdom on this list has
> been that one should not connect the tailwheel with the rudder, as per the
> Aeronca Champ, and many others of that era, due to the fact (?) that the
> wooden rudder is not strong enough to handle the loads. I see that Ken
> Perkin's Time Machine is set-up just that way.
>
> Any new thoughts on this subject?
>
> Dan Helsper
> Poplar Grove, IL.
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 19
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Piet Pitts Death Ray |
Very few videos have a Pietenpol, a Pitts Special, and a Tesla Death
Ray in them. Oh, and beer! Don't forget the beer!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3Tzms7Qxe8
Enjoy!
--
Jeff Boatright
"Now let's think about this..."
Message 20
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder |
Looks clean, Skip! Looking beyond your tail.you're not related to the
'Clampetts', are you?
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
18 ribs done
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Skip Gadd
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 7:13 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder
Dan,
I made a double horn for rudder and tailwheel steering so the torsional load
from the tailwheel would not have to travel through wood. Also since the
rudder horn is moved to the bottom of the rudder I added some extra support
to spread the load up the rudder. The horns are constructed like
Pietenpols, two pieces of .032 edge welded. The attached picture is the
current status of the project, so the design has not been flight tested.
Skip
----- Original Message -----
From:
Sent: 2/24/2010 7:48:58 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder
Hi Guys,
I have been wrestling with the engineering of making my free-castoring
tailwheel into a steerable type. The conventional wisdom on this list has
been that one should not connect the tailwheel with the rudder, as per the
Aeronca Champ, and many others of that era, due to the fact (?) that the
wooden rudder is not strong enough to handle the loads. I see that Ken
Perkin's Time Machine is set-up just that way.
Any new thoughts on this subject?
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
<>
Message 21
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Piet Pitts Death Ray |
Sorry for the double (triple?) post. Email is being weird this
morning...That and I'm a luddite.
--
Jeff Boatright
"Now let's think about this..."
Message 22
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Outstanding video Jeff ! Piet Pitts Death Ray |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3Tzms7Qxe8
This is a must-see Jeff Boatright Production. Loved the music, the fast forwarding
during mundane scenes, the captions, the pirate music and change of paces---most
excellent Jeff !
Love the boo's, the cheers, the heckling from the crowd during your stall serious.
Now here is a guy with a John Hofmann sense of humor, AKA John's outstanding
video: Tribute to Jim Markle which still brings tears to my eyes every time
I watch it.
Mike C.
Message 23
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Red Betsy - on to Boscobel |
Dan; if you like Bligh and Cook, no doubt you've read the Mutiny on the Bounty
trilogy, and perhaps the Aubrey-Maturin series as well? Great stuff... but no
flying or airplanes ;o(
do not archive
--------
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
Air Camper NX41CC
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288162#288162
Message 24
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Sky Scout... |
Round less efficient true, but at Piet speeds probably equates to a fraction
of an mph.
On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 11:10 AM, santiago morete <
moretesantiago@yahoo.com.ar> wrote:
> Ray,
>
> Round tube are structurally better than streamlined struts, subjected
> to compression, but they are less efficient aerodynamically, as Oscar said.
> I chose round struts because that's what I can afford :-)
> Attached is a photo of a beautiful Piet with round lift struts and
> streamlined cabanes.
> Saludos
>
> Santiago
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Encontra las mejores recetas con Yahoo! Cocina.
> http://ar.mujer.yahoo.com/cocina/
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 25
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Sky Scout... |
A couple of friends had a Pup on which that they put streamlined
covers on the round struts. Made a big difference in climb rate, of
all things, and some difference in top speed (which is hardly the
point for a Pup). They were both real surprised with the climb,
though.
--
Jeff Boatright
"Now let's think about this..."
Message 26
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Dick's two cylinder Harley engine |
Hi Mike
Thats the model I was looking at. I talked with them at SNF and OSH a
couple of years ago and have been watching them since. I got a bit of
bad news about them last year, but they seem to have things worked out a
bit on that front. Do you remember the harley engine down on the other
end of the field at Brodhead? That was another good installation..
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 10:07 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Dick's two cylinder Harley engine
Here's a company who specializes in using Harley engines in airplanes.
Cool idea Dick ! It sounds pretty cool in this video too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSTRlAx_YSc
Message 27
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Outstanding video Jeff ! Piet Pitts Death Ray |
Glad you liked it. I had fun with the flying and making the video.
And that Piet is out or rig! Really! The ball was centered!
Drat you Red Baron!!
--
Jeff Boatright
"Now let's think about this..."
Message 28
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Dick's new Piet |
Hi Douwe
Check out Mike Cuys post with the Harley. I'm checking on where to have all
of the chroming done for the struts and all at this point.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg@earthlink.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 8:54 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Dick's new Piet
> <douweblumberg@earthlink.net>
>
> So Dick,
>
> What engine are you using? is this an aircamper or a scout? I'm always
> interested in different engines.
>
> Douwe
>
>
>
Message 29
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder |
My J-3 had the basic hard-rubber wheel, which has since been replaced with a Scott
full-swivel. That was the answer I got when I questioned why the springs on
the new one weren't the same.
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: David Paule
Sent: Feb 25, 2010 10:38 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder
Not necessary. The tailwheel assembly has some friction; that dampens the system
and reduces the liklihood of oscillation.
Check out the local production taildraggers.
David Paule
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Ash" <ashcan@earthlink.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 7:40 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder
>
> Once upon a time I'd heard from others wiser than I that the two springs should
be different. This is so they apply unequal forces on the tailwheel and put
a light loading on the linkages. Otherwise, a force-neutral setup could allow
an unwanted oscillation which could ruin your day. Picture the flutter that would
happen if your elevator weren't loaded to one side; same concept.
>
> Jim Ash
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: helspersew@aol.com
> Sent: Feb 25, 2010 7:35 AM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder
>
>
> That settles it, I already have some light weight springs I bought from Mcmasters.
Hook to rudder!
>
> Dan Helsper
> Poplar Grove, IL.
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bill55 <bliimatainen@antennaplus.com>
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:47 am
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder
>
>
>
> Dan,
>
> We just finished and test flew the Model A powered Sky Scout based in Brodhead
> (this past November) and originally had the tail skid. It did not take long
to
> realize we needed a steerable tail wheel! We used a Ken Perkins design (due
to
> time constraint) and attached to the lower rudder with light springs (as Dennis
> Hall on his Aircamper). The process worked great except for the full swivel
> design of the tail wheel. I machined that out and the airplane flys and ground
> handles great. Feel free to check it out at Brodhead as anyone knows how to
get
> into my hangar. I was always apprehensive about the horns on the lower rudder
> but am convinced this is logical solution (and possibly lighter?)
>
> Bill Liimatainen
> Monroe, Wisconsin
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288111#288111
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ==========
> t" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> ==========
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> _blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ==========
> Pietenpol-List Un/Subscription,
> --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
<FONT ="=========
> bsp; via the href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
<FONT ="=========
> bsp; - generous support!
> bsp; href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
>
Message 30
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Dick's two cylinder Harley engine |
I swear I saw a Bleriot replica on the web that used a Harley V-twin too bu
t can't seem to locate the link now.
Mike C.
do not archive
Message 31
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Dick's new Piet |
Chroming for your struts? Many years ago I had a Harley with a lot of custom plating
(chrome and gold) that was done at a place in Padukah KY, Brown's Plating
I think. They've been around forever.
Might be worth checking on for a source of your plating...I think I actually saw
the place mentioned somewhere not long ago so their probably still around....
-----Original Message-----
>From: Dick N <horzpool@goldengate.net>
>Sent: Feb 25, 2010 11:28 AM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Dick's new Piet
>
>
>Hi Douwe
>Check out Mike Cuys post with the Harley. I'm checking on where to have all
>of the chroming done for the struts and all at this point.
>Dick
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg@earthlink.net>
>To: "pietenpolgroup" <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 8:54 AM
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Dick's new Piet
>
>
>> <douweblumberg@earthlink.net>
>>
>> So Dick,
>>
>> What engine are you using? is this an aircamper or a scout? I'm always
>> interested in different engines.
>>
>> Douwe
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 32
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Dick's two cylinder Harley engine |
Still have a "HogAir" tshirt I got a SNF a few years ago, had a Harley
demo engine there at the time. Don't know if they are around anymore.
On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 12:25 PM, Dick N <horzpool@goldengate.net> wrote:
> Hi Mike
> Thats the model I was looking at. I talked with them at SNF and OSH a
> couple of years ago and have been watching them since. I got a bit of bad
> news about them last year, but they seem to have things worked out a bit on
> that front. Do you remember the harley engine down on the other end of the
> field at Brodhead? That was another good installation..
> Dick N.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 10:07 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Dick's two cylinder Harley engine
>
> Heres a company who specializes in using Harley engines in airplanes.
>
>
> Cool idea Dick ! It sounds pretty cool in this video too.
>
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSTRlAx_YSc
>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 33
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder |
Thanks Gary and Rick.
Jeff, those hinges were made by Don Harper, he is a machinist and makes some beautiful
stuff. Don is a Piet builder and helps in the Sun & Fun wood shop and
will probably have some hinges, gas tank filler necks, aircraft tie downs and
his other stuff down there this spring.
Gary, you can never have too many ;^)
Skip
Message 34
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Sky Scout... |
Yes, let's think about this. With the Piet, it's never about going faster. The
airframe feels most comfortable in a band of airspeed around 65-80 MPH and we're
not trying to make it go faster by reducing drag. The force that opposes
drag is thrust, and it's excess thrust that provides climb. As your friend has
discovered, if you reduce drag you have more excess thrust available to help
you climb. And we all know that most Piets can use all the help they can get
in climb, especially when high/hot/heavy.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
Air Camper NX41CC
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288189#288189
Message 35
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Sky Scout... |
So streamlined tubing is good, right? :)
Reducing drag also lets you go the same speed using less thrust and
we all know where thrust comes from: Your bank account!
(BTW, for Larry, it is ALWAYS about going faster... >:-})
>
>Yes, let's think about this. With the Piet, it's never about going
>faster. The airframe feels most comfortable in a band of airspeed
>around 65-80 MPH and we're not trying to make it go faster by
>reducing drag. The force that opposes drag is thrust, and it's
>excess thrust that provides climb. As your friend has discovered,
>if you reduce drag you have more excess thrust available to help you
>climb. And we all know that most Piets can use all the help they
>can get in climb, especially when high/hot/heavy.
>
>--------
>Oscar Zuniga
>San Antonio, TX
>Air Camper NX41CC
>
--
---
Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Ophthalmology
Emory University School of Medicine
Editor-in-Chief
Molecular Vision
Message 36
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Sky Scout... |
You can glue streamlined balsa to the round strut and wrap it with
fabric tape and dope it. That's an old idea that was common back when.
Worked well, too. It replaces material cost with labor to achieve the
result.
If anyone wants a photo I'll try to take one next time I'm at the
airport.
David Paule
----- Original Message -----
From: santiago morete
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 9:10 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout...
Ray,
Round tube are structurally better than streamlined struts,
subjected to compression, but they are less efficient aerodynamically,
as Oscar said. I chose round struts because that's what I can afford
:-)
Attached is a photo of a beautiful Piet with round lift struts
and streamlined cabanes.
Saludos
Santiago
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Encontra las mejores recetas con Yahoo! Cocina.
http://ar.mujer.yahoo.com/cocina/
Message 37
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Sky Scout... |
David; where can I buy some of this streamlined balsa, and how much clamping pressure
should I apply if I glue it to my struts with T88?
;o)
Please don't kill me... and do not archive
--------
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
Air Camper NX41CC
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288197#288197
Message 38
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Sky Scout... |
Oscar,
Carve it yourself, and don't crush the balsa when you glue it. You can
simply tape it to the tube while the glue dries.
Foam also works.
http://jackbhart.com/firefly/firefly91.html
http://jackbhart.com/firefly/firefly93.html
David Paule
----- Original Message -----
From: "taildrags" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 12:24 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sky Scout...
>
> David; where can I buy some of this streamlined balsa, and how much
> clamping pressure should I apply if I glue it to my struts with T88?
>
> ;o)
>
> Please don't kill me... and do not archive
>
> --------
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> Air Camper NX41CC
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288197#288197
>
>
>
Message 39
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Sky Scout... |
A round strut is very un-aerodynamic...ish.
Applying streamline fairings to round struts on a draggy airplane like a Piet will
most likely result in a speed increase of several MPH, (not a fraction of
a MPH). I have spoken with a Piet owner who flew with round struts for many years,
and was very pleased with the results when he added the fairings.
See the following link for an article about this very topic.
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=50119&highlight=streamline
Using round tubes for the struts is a good way to keep costs down, but it would
be a really good idea to take the time to add streamline fairings to them.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288203#288203
Message 40
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder |
I thought about this some more and decided that springs of different
spring constants would have no effect. This is because the net torque
about the steering axis is the same.
To verify this, I made a simple finite element model and sure enough,
with two identical springs I got a certain natural frequency. With one
spring slightly lower and one spring slightly higher in value, adding to
the same total amount, the resulting natural frequency was identical.
Just use two springs the same, life is simpler that way.
It's damping that prevents the shimmy.
David Paule
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Ash" <ashcan@earthlink.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 7:40 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder
>
> Once upon a time I'd heard from others wiser than I that the two
springs should be different. This is so they apply unequal forces on the
tailwheel and put a light loading on the linkages. Otherwise, a
force-neutral setup could allow an unwanted oscillation which could ruin
your day. Picture the flutter that would happen if your elevator weren't
loaded to one side; same concept.
>
> Jim Ash
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: helspersew@aol.com
> Sent: Feb 25, 2010 7:35 AM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder
>
>
> That settles it, I already have some light weight springs I bought
from Mcmasters. Hook to rudder!
>
> Dan Helsper
> Poplar Grove, IL.
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bill55 <bliimatainen@antennaplus.com>
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:47 am
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder
>
>
<bliimatainen@antennaplus.com>
>
> Dan,
>
> We just finished and test flew the Model A powered Sky Scout based in
Brodhead
> (this past November) and originally had the tail skid. It did not
take long to
> realize we needed a steerable tail wheel! We used a Ken Perkins
design (due to
> time constraint) and attached to the lower rudder with light springs
(as Dennis
> Hall on his Aircamper). The process worked great except for the full
swivel
> design of the tail wheel. I machined that out and the airplane flys
and ground
> handles great. Feel free to check it out at Brodhead as anyone knows
how to get
> into my hangar. I was always apprehensive about the horns on the
lower rudder
> but am convinced this is logical solution (and possibly lighter?)
>
> Bill Liimatainen
> Monroe, Wisconsin
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288111#288111
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> t" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>
> tp://forums.matronics.com
>
> _blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 41
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Sky Scout... |
Kip,
Man, there is a lot of information on this site! My life gets easier
all the time! That would also save a lot of plywood AND work. Thanks
for the suggestion.
Ray
----- Original Message -----
From: Kip and Beth Gardner
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 4:56 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout...
Ray, put 1/2" wide 1/8" plywood doublers on either side of your 3/4"
spar at each rib station and the problem is solved. This is what I'm
doing on mine, since I inherited 3/4" spars when I bought the project.
Keeping the rib openings at 1" allows you to slide them over all the
doubler plates for the lift strut attachment fittings, wing tip a bow
attach fittings, etc. If you make the openings 3/4", then you have to
slide all the ribs on & then glue all the doublers in place, which seems
like a trickier prospect than being able to glue them on with the spar
laying flat on a bench.
Kip Gardner
On Feb 24, 2010, at 11:19 PM, Ray Krause wrote:
Thanks, Gary.
The wing is exactly the same, except 27" shorter. Routing would be
a lot of work, but doable. The ribs I got with the other wood are all
built and seem to be made for the 1" spar. I will have to make a
decision on which way to go.
I have been putting in hard points in the fuselage for the seat and
shoulder safety belts; thankfully I only need one set! I put the hard
pints one station behind the seat, so I will have to find the right seat
belts to fit. ACS has some that might work, when I get that far. Got
the turtle deck mostly done today, that was fun.
Thanks for the help.
Ray Krause
P.S. Guess I will have to take the Waiex to the Peit fly in.
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Boothe
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 7:59 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout...
No problem, Ray. I took your meaning to be, would the same
information apply to a Sky Scout. Having never seen Sky Scout plans, I
could not say, with real authority, that a =BE=94 spar is OK for the Sky
Scout; however, it is my understanding that the two airplanes are very
similar, maybe even the same wing. Lots of conversations on this list
point out that vintage aircraft such as the T-craft or Piper Cub, have
used an assortment of spar materials, =BE=94 thick. It is my
recollection that the same conversation led to the agreement that, after
routing, you basically end up with a =BE=94 spar, anyhow.
Please, someone (I know this is a bashful group), if I have
mis-directed Ray, please jump in!
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
18 ribs done
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ray
Krause
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 12:29 PM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout...
Gary,
Thanks. I became confused answering all the e-mails that I
started with these questions. I know that you are building an Air
Camper! Thanks for the info on the spars.
Ray Krause
----- Original Message -----
From: gboothe5@comcast.net
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 12:15 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout...
Negative.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Ray Krause" <raykrause@frontiernet.net>
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:24:54 -0800
To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout...
Gary,
Thanks for the information. If = using the 3/4" spar
material, would I still rout out the spar as shown in the = plans?
Are you building a Sky Scout?
Ray Krause
----- Original Message -----
From: gboothe5@comcast.net
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, = 2010 9:15 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: = Sky Scout...
Ray,
FYI...3/4" is an acceptable dimension for = spars.
Gary
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Ray Krause" <raykrause@frontiernet.net&g= t;
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 07:59:45 -0800
To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com= >
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout...
Thanks, Gary.
I will accept your humility with a = =3D grain
of=3D20 salt! Your beautiful workmanship attests to your =3D
abilities!
The point about laminating to avoid = =3D wood
defects is=3D20 well taken, I will follow suit. After = computing
the costs of =3D the=3D20 metal struts, I am leaning towards
the wood = struts! As far as the =3D spars=3D20 go, they
were included in the wood I got = with the Sky Scout package;
=3D they are=3D20 spruce. But rather than the 1" =
thickness, they are 3/4", I think I =3D will=3D20 sandwich then
with two pieces = of 1/8" birch plywood to get the 1" (so =3D
they fit=3D20 the ribs). = The Hughes Hardwood =3D place
in=3D20 Chico = had beautiful parallel grain fir that would
have made beautiful =3D spars,=3D20 = cheap, too. Next time
I am in Chico, I will check out the =3D = hickory. =3D20 The
ash seems to be really dense/heavy (stronger than hickory?). = I
=3D will=3D20 try to look it up.
Thanks for the response. And yes, I = =3D have
referenced=3D20 Chris's web site and printed many photos.... but it
= makes my eyes and =3D brain=3D20 hurt!
Ray
----- Original Message -----
From:=3D20 Gary=3D20 Boothe
To: pietenpol-list@matronics= .com=3D =3D20
Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 =3D = 3:17=3D20 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: =3D Sky=3D20 = Scout...
Ray,
Your=3D20 questions are intelligent and =
educated=3D85.attributes to which I make =3D no personal=3D20
claim. In all honesty, I perused = the West Coast Piet web site
to =3D exhaustion.=3D20 Too bad Chris Tracy = doesn=3D92t
have sponsors, or he=3D92d be a rich man! =3D After=3D20
looking at every = application of wood strut that has been built
and is =3D flying,=3D20 I decided = it was doable.
Conversations about appropriate woods went =3D from ash=3D20 = to
spruce, including hickory. I decided that I liked the look of =3D
hickory = and=3D20 the decision was that easy. For size, I just
used the plans dimensions = =3D for=3D20 steel.
Later=3D20 conversations with another builder (either =
Cliff Dawson or Douwe =3D Blumberg),=3D20 far more intelligent
and = educated than I, showed published =3D strengths of=3D20
various woods, and = verified that hickory had plenty of strength
for =3D our=3D20 purposes. I think I = can find that email,
but it=3D92s on my other =3D computer at=3D20 home.
My=3D20 wing struts will also be hickory, roughly the =
shape and size on the =3D plans.=3D20 Connections will surely
be similar to = Douwe=3D92s. All cabanes and wing =3D struts
are=3D20 laminated = because=3D85.that=3D92s what everyone
does! Really, it gives you =3D an=3D20 opportunity to rotate the =
grain and eliminate the possibility of =3D having a weak=3D20
link. Also, it = looks really cool!
My=3D20 wood source is a local hardwood supplier, in =
Auburn, Ca (California=3D20 Hardwoods), who does his own
wholesale purchasing = in whatever length =3D and size=3D20
needed. He even mills, if necessary. He = located my fir spars
and sold =3D all four=3D20 for $185!! Bonus is that he helped =
build some wood airplanes and knows =3D what=3D20 grains to
look = for.
Further=3D20 note: If anything goes wrong, = I=3D92ll
blame Chris Tracy for =3D publishing all=3D20 those = photos!
Gary=3D20 Boothe
Cool,=3D20 CA
Pietenpol
WW=3D20 Corvair Conversion
Tail=3D20 done, Fuselage on gear
18=3D20 ribs done
From:=3D20
owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com=3D20
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of =
=3D Ray=3D20 Krause
Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 1:51 PM
To: =3D pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: = Re: Pietenpol-List: =3D Sky=3D20 =
Scout...
Gary,
If I made =3D these 22"=3D20 struts (front/center)
from metal, they would = weigh 22+ ounces without =3D
the=3D20 ends. How did you decide on the = thickness and shape
for the struts? =3D Why did=3D20 you chose Hickory versus, say =
ash? Did you laminate because you =3D needed=3D20 to get to a
certain = thickness, or for strength? There is a =3D source
for=3D20 hickory and ash that = has 2" (8/4) material in Chico,
I think. I =3D got some=3D20 1" ash for = 2.37 per board
foot.
Are your =3D "flying=3D20 struts" (the long struts)
also hickory? = What=3D20 shape?
Thanks,
Ray=3D20 Krause.
P.S. The =3D aerostream=3D20 tubing is very
expensive, about $56.00 per = front strut ($28.00/ft and =3D
.7593=3D20 lbs/ft). Wicks has it for $17.00/ft = right now. I
am not sure of its =3D quality.=3D20 None of the aerotubing matches
= the recommended sizes on the plans (1.5 =3D X .75=3D20 and
2" X 1").
----- =3D Original=3D20 Message -----
From: Gary=3D20 Boothe
To: pietenpol-list@matron= ics.com=3D =3D20
Sent: =3D Monday, February=3D20 22, 2010 7:31 AM
Subject: RE:=3D20 Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout...
Ray,
I had a couple free minutes before I took = =3D off
for the=3D20 week. It took 10 seconds to pull off one of the rear
= cabanes. It =3D measures=3D20 21" end-to-end, and weighs 18
oz (had to use the = postal=3D20 scales!).
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, =3D = mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(18 ribs down=3D85)
-----Original Message-----
From: = owner-pi= etenpol=3D
-list-server@matronics.com=3D20
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of =
Ray=3D20 Krause
Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 8:54 PM
To:=3D20 pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: = Sky=3D20 Scout...
Krause"=3D20 <raykrause@frontiernet.net>
Shad,
Thanks for the comments on the = struts. =3D I
will=3D20 probably go with the 4130
struts from Wicks. It is just that I = =3D
really=3D20 enjoy the wood working. If the
wood were comparable, I would maybe go =
that=3D20 way.
I would appreciate the Dillsburg Aero =3D
Reference. =3D20 The size of the metal
struts is included in the plans; so I can = =3D
probably get=3D20 pretty close to the
right size.
Thanks for your help.
Ray Krause
----- Original Message -----
From: "shad bell"=3D20 <aviatorbell@yahoo.com>
To:=3D20 <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 = 5:33=3D20 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky=3D20 Scout...
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted = =3D by:
shad=3D20 bell <aviatorbell@yahoo.com>
>
>
> Ray, I am not 100% sure but I would = bet =3D
wooden=3D20 struts are heavier than
> streamlined tube. The bolts, = and =3D steel
end=3D20 fittings that would be
> required add up fast. As for = the =3D
older=3D20 metal designation, just usse 4130,
> If you need I can see what dimensions = =3D
ours are,=3D20 some where in the 2 inch
> by 9/16 (minor axis) .049 wall =3D thickness.
=3D20 also check dillsburg aero works
> for tube prices, wicks is also having = a =3D
special=3D20 "sale" on streamlined
> tubing of some dimensions. I = can =3D look
up=3D20 the number for Dillsburg Aero
> Works in PA if you need me to, I have = a =3D
price=3D20 list out in my hanger, he
> does not have a web =3D = site.
>
>
> Shad
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
<=3D/PRE>http://=www.mat=3Dronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List&=l
t;=3DB><=3D/PRE>http://forums.matronics.com=3D<=3D/PRE>=3Dhttp:
//www.matronic=s.com/c=3Dontribution<=3D/PRE>
href=3D3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://ww=
w.mat=3Dronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhref=3D3D"http://forums.ma
tronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com=
href=3D3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.=
com/c=3D
3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=
3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D=3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=
3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D=3D=
3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3
D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D=3Dhref=3D'3D"http://www.matronics.com/Nav
igator?Pietenpol-List"'>http://www=.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-L
ist3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D
3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D=3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D
3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D=
3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=
3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D=3Dhref=3D'3D"http://forums.matronics.c
om"'>http://forums.matronics.com3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3
D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D=3D=3
D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D
=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D=3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D
=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D=3Dhref=
3D'3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"'>http://www.matronics.c=om
/contribution3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=
3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D=3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=
3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3
D=3D=3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3
D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D=3D ~=B2=03r
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3Dhref='3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"'>http://w
ww.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3Dhref='3D"http://forums.m
atronics.com"'>http://forums.matronics.com3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3Dhref='3D"http://www.matr
onics.com/contribution"'>http://www.matronics.com/contribution3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
~=B2
--------------------------------------------------------------------
r
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics.
comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"
style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;
">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://forums.matronics.com
style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;
">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 42
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Sky Scout... |
Thanks, Jack,
I already have the 3/4" spars, so no need to build them up from plywood.
I saw these sketches before and thought about it.
I will keep this as an alternative.
Thanks again.
Ray
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 3:27 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout...
Ray,
You could consider a built up spar like attached. They are a lot of
work but strong and just a bit less expensive that solid. There are
more pictures at www.textors.com.
Jack
DSM
Thanks, Gary.
The wing is exactly the same, except 27" shorter. Routing would be a
lot of work, but doable. The ribs I got with the other wood are all
built and seem to be made for the 1" spar. I will have to make a
decision on which way to go.
I have been putting in hard points in the fuselage for the seat and
shoulder safety belts; thankfully I only need one set! I put the hard
pints one station behind the seat, so I will have to find the right seat
belts to fit. ACS has some that might work, when I get that far. Got
the turtle deck mostly done today, that was fun.
Thanks for the help.
Ray Krause
P.S. Guess I will have to take the Waiex to the Peit fly in.
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Boothe
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 7:59 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout...
No problem, Ray. I took your meaning to be, would the same
information apply to a Sky Scout. Having never seen Sky Scout plans, I
could not say, with real authority, that a =BE" spar is OK for the Sky
Scout; however, it is my understanding that the two airplanes are very
similar, maybe even the same wing. Lots of conversations on this list
point out that vintage aircraft such as the T-craft or Piper Cub, have
used an assortment of spar materials, =BE" thick. It is my recollection
that the same conversation led to the agreement that, after routing, you
basically end up with a =BE" spar, anyhow.
Please, someone (I know this is a bashful group), if I have
mis-directed Ray, please jump in!
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
18 ribs done
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ray
Krause
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 12:29 PM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout...
Gary,
Thanks. I became confused answering all the e-mails that I started
with these questions. I know that you are building an Air Camper!
Thanks for the info on the spars.
Ray Krause
----- Original Message -----
From: gboothe5@comcast.net
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 12:15 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout...
Negative.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
From: "Ray Krause" <raykrause@frontiernet.net>
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:24:54 -0800
To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout...
Gary,
Thanks for the information. If = using the 3/4" spar
material, would I still rout out the spar as shown in the = plans?
Are you building a Sky Scout?
Ray Krause
----- Original Message -----
From: gboothe5@comcast.net
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, = 2010 9:15 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: = Sky Scout...
Ray,
FYI...3/4" is an acceptable dimension for = spars.
Gary
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Ray Krause" <raykrause@frontiernet.net&g= t;
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 07:59:45 -0800
To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com= >
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout...
Thanks, Gary.
I will accept your humility with a = =3D grain
of=3D20 salt! Your beautiful workmanship attests to your =3D
abilities!
The point about laminating to avoid = =3D wood defects
is=3D20 well taken, I will follow suit. After = computing the
costs of =3D the=3D20 metal struts, I am leaning towards the wood
= struts! As far as the =3D spars=3D20 go, they were
included in the wood I got = with the Sky Scout package; =3D
they are=3D20 spruce. But rather than the 1" = thickness, they
are 3/4", I think I =3D will=3D20 sandwich then with two pieces =
of 1/8" birch plywood to get the 1" (so =3D they fit=3D20 the
ribs). = The Hughes Hardwood =3D place in=3D20 Chico = had
beautiful parallel grain fir that would have made beautiful =3D
spars,=3D20 = cheap, too. Next time I am in Chico, I will
check out the =3D = hickory. =3D20 The ash seems to be really
dense/heavy (stronger than hickory?). = I =3D will=3D20 try
to look it up.
Thanks for the response. And yes, I = =3D have
referenced=3D20 Chris's web site and printed many photos.... but it
= makes my eyes and =3D brain=3D20 hurt!
Ray
----- Original Message -----
From:=3D20 Gary=3D20 Boothe
To: pietenpol-list@matronics= .com=3D =3D20
Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 =3D = 3:17=3D20 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: =3D Sky=3D20 = Scout...
Ray,
Your=3D20 questions are intelligent and =
educated=3D85.attributes to which I make =3D no personal=3D20
claim. In all honesty, I perused = the West Coast Piet web site
to =3D exhaustion.=3D20 Too bad Chris Tracy = doesn=3D92t
have sponsors, or he=3D92d be a rich man! =3D After=3D20
looking at every = application of wood strut that has been built
and is =3D flying,=3D20 I decided = it was doable.
Conversations about appropriate woods went =3D from ash=3D20 = to
spruce, including hickory. I decided that I liked the look of =3D
hickory = and=3D20 the decision was that easy. For size, I just
used the plans dimensions = =3D for=3D20 steel.
Later=3D20 conversations with another builder (either =
Cliff Dawson or Douwe =3D Blumberg),=3D20 far more intelligent
and = educated than I, showed published =3D strengths of=3D20
various woods, and = verified that hickory had plenty of strength
for =3D our=3D20 purposes. I think I = can find that email,
but it=3D92s on my other =3D computer at=3D20 home.
My=3D20 wing struts will also be hickory, roughly the =
shape and size on the =3D plans.=3D20 Connections will surely
be similar to = Douwe=3D92s. All cabanes and wing =3D struts
are=3D20 laminated = because=3D85.that=3D92s what everyone
does! Really, it gives you =3D an=3D20 opportunity to rotate the =
grain and eliminate the possibility of =3D having a weak=3D20
link. Also, it = looks really cool!
My=3D20 wood source is a local hardwood supplier, in =
Auburn, Ca (California=3D20 Hardwoods), who does his own
wholesale purchasing = in whatever length =3D and size=3D20
needed. He even mills, if necessary. He = located my fir spars
and sold =3D all four=3D20 for $185!! Bonus is that he helped =
build some wood airplanes and knows =3D what=3D20 grains to
look = for.
Further=3D20 note: If anything goes wrong, = I=3D92ll
blame Chris Tracy for =3D publishing all=3D20 those = photos!
Gary=3D20 Boothe
Cool,=3D20 CA
Pietenpol
WW=3D20 Corvair Conversion
Tail=3D20 done, Fuselage on gear
18=3D20 ribs done
From:=3D20
owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com=3D20
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of =
=3D Ray=3D20 Krause
Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 1:51 PM
To: =3D pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: = Re: Pietenpol-List: =3D Sky=3D20 =
Scout...
Gary,
If I made =3D these 22"=3D20 struts (front/center)
from metal, they would = weigh 22+ ounces without =3D
the=3D20 ends. How did you decide on the = thickness and shape
for the struts? =3D Why did=3D20 you chose Hickory versus, say =
ash? Did you laminate because you =3D needed=3D20 to get to a
certain = thickness, or for strength? There is a =3D source
for=3D20 hickory and ash that = has 2" (8/4) material in Chico,
I think. I =3D got some=3D20 1" ash for = 2.37 per board
foot.
Are your =3D "flying=3D20 struts" (the long struts)
also hickory? = What=3D20 shape?
Thanks,
Ray=3D20 Krause.
P.S. The =3D aerostream=3D20 tubing is very
expensive, about $56.00 per = front strut ($28.00/ft and =3D
.7593=3D20 lbs/ft). Wicks has it for $17.00/ft = right now. I
am not sure of its =3D quality.=3D20 None of the aerotubing matches
= the recommended sizes on the plans (1.5 =3D X .75=3D20 and
2" X 1").
----- =3D Original=3D20 Message -----
From: Gary=3D20 Boothe
To: pietenpol-list@matron= ics.com=3D =3D20
Sent: =3D Monday, February=3D20 22, 2010 7:31 AM
Subject: RE:=3D20 Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout...
Ray,
I had a couple free minutes before I took = =3D off
for the=3D20 week. It took 10 seconds to pull off one of the rear
= cabanes. It =3D measures=3D20 21" end-to-end, and weighs 18
oz (had to use the = postal=3D20 scales!).
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, =3D = mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(18 ribs down=3D85)
-----Original Message-----
From: = owner-pi= etenpol=3D
-list-server@matronics.com=3D20
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of =
Ray=3D20 Krause
Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 8:54 PM
To:=3D20 pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: = Sky=3D20 Scout...
Krause"=3D20 <raykrause@frontiernet.net>
Shad,
Thanks for the comments on the = struts. =3D I
will=3D20 probably go with the 4130
struts from Wicks. It is just that I = =3D
really=3D20 enjoy the wood working. If the
wood were comparable, I would maybe go = that=3D20
way.
I would appreciate the Dillsburg Aero =3D Reference.
=3D20 The size of the metal
struts is included in the plans; so I can = =3D
probably get=3D20 pretty close to the
right size.
Thanks for your help.
Ray Krause
----- Original Message ----- =
From: "shad bell"=3D20 <aviatorbell@yahoo.com>
To:=3D20 <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 = 5:33=3D20 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky=3D20 Scout...
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted = =3D by:
shad=3D20 bell <aviatorbell@yahoo.com>
>
>
> Ray, I am not 100% sure but I would = bet =3D
wooden=3D20 struts are heavier than
> streamlined tube. The bolts, = and =3D steel
end=3D20 fittings that would be
> required add up fast. As for = the =3D
older=3D20 metal designation, just usse 4130,
> If you need I can see what dimensions = =3D ours
are,=3D20 some where in the 2 inch
> by 9/16 (minor axis) .049 wall =3D thickness.
=3D20 also check dillsburg aero works =
> for tube prices, wicks is also having = a =3D
special=3D20 "sale" on streamlined
> tubing of some dimensions. I = can =3D look
up=3D20 the number for Dillsburg Aero
> Works in PA if you need me to, I have = a =3D
price=3D20 list out in my hanger, he
> does not have a web =3D = site.
>
>
> Shad
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
<=3D/PRE>http://=www.mat=3Dronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List&=l
t;=3DB><=3D/PRE>http://forums.matronics.com=3D<=3D/PRE>=3Dhttp:
//www.matronic=s.com/c=3Dontribution<=3D/PRE>
href=3D3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://ww=
w.mat=3Dronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhref=3D3D"http://forums.ma
tronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com=
href=3D3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.=
com/c=3D
3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=
3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D=3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=
3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D=3D=
3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3
D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D=3Dhref=3D'3D"http://www.matronics.com/Nav
igator?Pietenpol-List"'>http://www=.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-L
ist3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D
3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D=3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D
3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D=
3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=
3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D=3Dhref=3D'3D"http://forums.matronics.c
om"'>http://forums.matronics.com3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3
D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D=3D=3
D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D
=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D=3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D
=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D=3Dhref=
3D'3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"'>http://www.matronics.c=om
/contribution3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=
3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D=3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=
3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3
D=3D=3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3
D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D=3D ~=B2=03r
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3Dhref='3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"'>http://w
ww.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3Dhref='3D"http://forums.m
atronics.com"'>http://forums.matronics.com3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3Dhref='3D"http://www.matr
onics.com/contribution"'>http://www.matronics.com/contribution3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
~=B2
----------------------------------------------------------------------
r
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics.
comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">h
ttp://forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">
http://www.matronics.com/c
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics.
comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 43
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Sky Scout... |
Oscar,
It would be nice to see the data on the drag of the various materials, but I
will believe you...I plan to use the streamlined material.
I sure enjoy your postings to this site.
Ray
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 6:06 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout...
>
>
> Guys, if you don't already have the original
> Flying & Glider Manuals, you should get a copy
> by all means. Besides the Air Camper and Sky
> Scout plans and details, there are a whole
> bunch of other interesting aircraft in them,
> well worth your time to peruse.
>
> And for whoever mentioned that they didn't
> think there was much difference in drag between
> round and streamline tubing, there really is.
> I can dig up the old aircraft design manual
> that has a graph of relative drag between
> round, simple teardrop, streamline, and one
> or two other shapes. It's significant.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
>
Message 44
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder |
This is true. The Cub uses different springs for just this reason. When I
questioned the A&P that changed to new anti-shimmy springs on the Cub; he
said this was an old trick that had been learned with many bad experiences.
I don't know about the experiences; but the Cub kept the different springs!
Ray
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Ash" <ashcan@earthlink.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 6:40 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder
>
> Once upon a time I'd heard from others wiser than I that the two springs
> should be different. This is so they apply unequal forces on the tailwheel
> and put a light loading on the linkages. Otherwise, a force-neutral setup
> could allow an unwanted oscillation which could ruin your day. Picture the
> flutter that would happen if your elevator weren't loaded to one side;
> same concept.
>
> Jim Ash
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: helspersew@aol.com
> Sent: Feb 25, 2010 7:35 AM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder
>
>
> That settles it, I already have some light weight springs I bought from
> Mcmasters. Hook to rudder!
>
> Dan Helsper
> Poplar Grove, IL.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bill55 <bliimatainen@antennaplus.com>
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:47 am
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder
>
>
> <bliimatainen@antennaplus.com>
>
> Dan,
>
> We just finished and test flew the Model A powered Sky Scout based in
> Brodhead
> (this past November) and originally had the tail skid. It did not take
> long to
> realize we needed a steerable tail wheel! We used a Ken Perkins design
> (due to
> time constraint) and attached to the lower rudder with light springs (as
> Dennis
> Hall on his Aircamper). The process worked great except for the full
> swivel
> design of the tail wheel. I machined that out and the airplane flys and
> ground
> handles great. Feel free to check it out at Brodhead as anyone knows how
> to get
> into my hangar. I was always apprehensive about the horns on the lower
> rudder
> but am convinced this is logical solution (and possibly lighter?)
>
> Bill Liimatainen
> Monroe, Wisconsin
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288111#288111
>
>
> ===================================
> t" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> ===================================
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> ===================================
> _blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ===================================
>
>
>
Message 45
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Dick's two cylinder Harley engine |
There was a little biplane at Brodhead that had one of those Harley engines. It
was called a Snyder Baby Bomber (I think), and was owned by the late Denny Trone,
(again, I think). I watched it taxi towards the runway once, but the engine
stalled part way, and had to be pulled back to the hangar. Not sure if it's
still there.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288215#288215
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/brodhead_328_small_186.jpg
Message 46
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Dick's two cylinder Harley engine |
About five years ago at the Dayton Air Show a University Engineering Class brought
a 1905 Wright Flyer replica with a Twin Cam 88. It too had the balanced (
softtail ) engine. I'm sure they flew it at Dayton and I think it was at Oshkosh
the next year.
http://www.usuwrightflyer.org/news/2003-mar13-slt
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288216#288216
Message 47
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | another Russian Aircamper |
http://www.reaa.ru/yabbfiles/Attachments/DSC09481-1_001.JPG
Message 48
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
I think the Sprit of St. Louis" used round tubing for All landing gear, and
struts...
Was streamlined with Balsa! Round Tube is VERY draggy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ray
Krause
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 1:55 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout...
<raykrause@frontiernet.net>
Oscar,
It would be nice to see the data on the drag of the various materials, but I
will believe you...I plan to use the streamlined material.
I sure enjoy your postings to this site.
Ray
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 6:06 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout...
>
>
> Guys, if you don't already have the original
> Flying & Glider Manuals, you should get a copy
> by all means. Besides the Air Camper and Sky
> Scout plans and details, there are a whole
> bunch of other interesting aircraft in them,
> well worth your time to peruse.
>
> And for whoever mentioned that they didn't
> think there was much difference in drag between
> round and streamline tubing, there really is.
> I can dig up the old aircraft design manual
> that has a graph of relative drag between
> round, simple teardrop, streamline, and one
> or two other shapes. It's significant.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
Message 49
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Sky Scout... |
Thanks, Santiago,
Beautiful plane! The streamline struts seem pretty cheap, at least on
initial glance.
Ray
----- Original Message -----
From: santiago morete
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 8:10 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout...
Ray,
Round tube are structurally better than streamlined struts,
subjected to compression, but they are less efficient aerodynamically,
as Oscar said. I chose round struts because that's what I can afford
:-)
Attached is a photo of a beautiful Piet with round lift struts
and streamlined cabanes.
Saludos
Santiago
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Encontra las mejores recetas con Yahoo! Cocina.
http://ar.mujer.yahoo.com/cocina/
Message 50
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder |
The trick to FEA is defining a model that's practical enough to be useful. Any
model of simply a mass and two opposed springs with no dampening is going to define
a 2nd-order system with a natural resonant frequency. Your excitation forces
are not going to be applied to the same points in both systems, and with
direct cables, I suspect your feet end up being the dampeners.
Taking it one step further, if your system has some ugly zeros and poles, the trick
is to make sure the operating range of your system is well clear of the unstable
parts. I suspect the differental springs move the center of the oscillation
away from straight, so as to reduce the chance of it happening during landing
and takeoff. I suppose the new resonance point would be during a tight fast
hard turn, like a ground loop, but at that point your tailwheel shimmy is
probably going to be way down on your list of immediate problems anyhow.
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: David Paule
Sent: Feb 25, 2010 4:03 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder
I thought about this some more and decided that springs of different spring constants
would have no effect. This is because the net torque about the steering
axis is the same.
To verify this, I made a simple finite element model and sure enough, with two
identical springs I got a certain natural frequency. With one spring slightly
lower and one spring slightly higher in value, adding to the same total amount,
the resulting natural frequency was identical.
Just use two springs the same, life is simpler that way.
It's damping that prevents the shimmy.
David Paule
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Ash" <ashcan@earthlink.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 7:40 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder
>
> Once upon a time I'd heard from others wiser than I that the two springs should
be different. This is so they apply unequal forces on the tailwheel and put
a light loading on the linkages. Otherwise, a force-neutral setup could allow
an unwanted oscillation which could ruin your day. Picture the flutter that would
happen if your elevator weren't loaded to one side; same concept.
>
> Jim Ash
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: helspersew@aol.com
> Sent: Feb 25, 2010 7:35 AM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder
>
>
> That settles it, I already have some light weight springs I bought from Mcmasters.
Hook to rudder!
>
> Dan Helsper
> Poplar Grove, IL.
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bill55 <bliimatainen@antennaplus.com>
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:47 am
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder
>
>
>
> Dan,
>
> We just finished and test flew the Model A powered Sky Scout based in Brodhead
> (this past November) and originally had the tail skid. It did not take long
to
> realize we needed a steerable tail wheel! We used a Ken Perkins design (due
to
> time constraint) and attached to the lower rudder with light springs (as Dennis
> Hall on his Aircamper). The process worked great except for the full swivel
> design of the tail wheel. I machined that out and the airplane flys and ground
> handles great. Feel free to check it out at Brodhead as anyone knows how to
get
> into my hangar. I was always apprehensive about the horns on the lower rudder
> but am convinced this is logical solution (and possibly lighter?)
>
> Bill Liimatainen
> Monroe, Wisconsin
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288111#288111
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ==========
> t" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> ==========
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> _blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ==========
> Pietenpol-List Un/Subscription,
> --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
<FONT ="=========
> bsp; via the href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
<FONT ="=========
> bsp; - generous support!
> bsp; href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
>
Message 51
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: laminating struts and tv |
I checked the DAP site and found this data sheet what I think is for the better
product. I've used it to build my tail feathers and testing shows that the joint
fails anywhere BUT the actual glue line. This is also the more water resistant/tolerant
product than the water activated. Incidentally, I mix the stuff
using a beam balance scale my ex-wife got from the US Attorneys office after
a drug case was adjudicated. It still has the "Evidence" sticker on it. One
of the few useful things I ever got from her.
http://www.dap.com/docs/tech/00030205.pdf
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288235#288235
Message 52
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Tailwheel & shimmy |
This can be useful for those of us who design our own tailwheels. As far as
I know, (not too far) the main cause of tailwheel shimmy-is an incorrect
castor angle.
Saludos
-
Santiago=0A=0A=0A Yahoo! Cocina=0A=0AEncontra las mejores recetas con
Yahoo! Cocina.=0A=0A=0Ahttp://ar.mujer.yahoo.com/cocina/
Message 53
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Tailwheel & shimmy |
Isn't that going to change as the spring flexes? Especialy
on landing?
The one thing I could see happening is that, with the already
negative "castor", The angle is going to get closer to the
horizontal with flexing and negate steering capability.
The principle of differential springs here is paralleled with
the reason for offsetting the jury struts. Harmonic vibration.
Clif
"My soul is in the sky." ~ William Shakespeare
This can be useful for those of us who design our own
tailwheels. As far as I know, (not too far) the main cause of tailwheel
shimmy is an incorrect castor angle.
Saludos
Santiago
Message 54
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Sky Scout.."Glue" question? |
The discussion on laminating struts has touched on glue/adhesives to be
used, or that could be used. When building the aircraft, using the two
part epoxy adhesives (T-88) is a little cumbersome. What about single
stage poly urethane adhesives/glues, i.e. Gorilla Glue, Titebond? Has
anyone used these, with what results? There are mixed reviews on this
subject: Fine Woodworking (August '07) and
woodgears.ca/joint_strength/glue.html . I am sure there are other
reports both supportive and contradictive.
I have tested Gorilla Glue with aircraft spruce and plywood, spruce long
grain to long grain and butt to long grain and cross grain: with proper
usage, the wood breaks before the glue bond. That is, wood grains come
off with the break.
Hope this does not cause any consternation!
Ray Krause
Message 55
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder |
I beg to differ, there is a tailwheel plan in the original plans. It
even has a parking brake incorporated in it.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Holland<mailto:at7000ft@gmail.com>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 11:14 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder
<at7000ft@gmail.com<mailto:at7000ft@gmail.com>>
Excellent design Skip. I know we are not supposed to change anything
from the Piet plans but since the plans do not include a tailwheel
(and a left and right cable running to a tailwheel control horn), I
think we can give Skip official dispensation here. I think this design
simplifies and improves the design of any Piet incorporating a
tailwheel and is based on a flight proven design (the GN-1). I will do
it this way on my next Piet project.
Rick
On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 10:12 AM, Skip Gadd
<skipgadd@earthlink.net<mailto:skipgadd@earthlink.net>> wrote:
> Dan,
> I made a double horn for rudder and tailwheel steering so the
torsional load
> from the tailwheel would not have to travel through wood. Also since
the
> rudder horn is moved to the bottom of the rudder I added some extra
support
> to spread the load up the rudder. The horns are constructed like
> Pietenpols, two pieces of .032 edge welded. The attached picture is
the
> current status of the project, so the design has not been flight
tested.
> Skip
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> To:
pietenpol-list@matronics.com<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: 2/24/2010 7:48:58 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder
> Hi Guys,
>
> I have been wrestling with the engineering of making my
free-castoring
> tailwheel into a steerable type. The conventional wisdom on this
list has
> been that one should not connect the tailwheel with the rudder, as
per the
> Aeronca Champ, and many others of that era, due to the fact (?) that
the
> wooden rudder is not strong enough to handle the loads. I see that
Ken
> Perkin's Time Machine is set-up just that way.
>
> Any new thoughts on this subject?
>
> Dan Helsper
> Poplar Grove, IL.
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List<http://www.matronics.co
m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 56
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Tailwheel & shimmy |
Santiago,
Thanks for posting that! I designed my own tailwheel, but had no idea if the
geometry was good.now I can check it.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(18 ribs down.)
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of santiago
morete
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 5:26 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tailwheel & shimmy
This can be useful for those of us who design our own tailwheels. As far as
I know, (not too far) the main cause of tailwheel shimmy is an incorrect
castor angle.
Saludos
Santiago
_____
Encontra las mejores recetas con Yahoo! Cocina.
http://ar.mujer.yahoo.com/cocina/
Message 57
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Sky Scout.."Glue" question? |
One problem with gorilla glue is that it has not been tested over time.
Yes, a glue joint is strong, but in ten years? twenty? after repeated
temperature changes?? Stick with the known glues, they are not all that
expensive.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Ray Krause<mailto:raykrause@frontiernet.net>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 9:57 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout.."Glue" question?
The discussion on laminating struts has touched on glue/adhesives to
be used, or that could be used. When building the aircraft, using the
two part epoxy adhesives (T-88) is a little cumbersome. What about
single stage poly urethane adhesives/glues, i.e. Gorilla Glue, Titebond?
Has anyone used these, with what results? There are mixed reviews on
this subject: Fine Woodworking (August '07) and
woodgears.ca/joint_strength/glue.html . I am sure there are other
reports both supportive and contradictive.
I have tested Gorilla Glue with aircraft spruce and plywood, spruce
long grain to long grain and butt to long grain and cross grain: with
proper usage, the wood breaks before the glue bond. That is, wood
grains come off with the break.
Hope this does not cause any consternation!
Ray Krause
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List<http://www.matronics.co
m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 58
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Tailwheel & shimmy |
Yes, Clif, I agree with you.- The negative castor angle should be conside
red with the airplane fully loaded.- Here is the article from where I too
k the graphic www.pierceaero.net/tws.php
I think you are right about the springs, in fact, the Maule-anti-shimmy s
prings that Aircraft Spruce,-and other sells, are nothing more than sprin
gs of different sizes.
Saludos
-
Santiago=0A=0A=0A Yahoo! Cocina=0A=0AEncontra las mejores recetas con
Yahoo! Cocina.=0A=0A=0Ahttp://ar.mujer.yahoo.com/cocina/
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|