Today's Message Index:
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1. 01:03 AM - Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] Hydraulic Brake Options (Keith Palmer)
2. 11:44 AM - Fw: [Pulsar-Aviators] Hydraulic Brake Options (Ron Koval)
3. 09:53 PM - Re: Fw: [Pulsar-Aviators] Hydraulic Brake Options (Keith Palmer)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] Hydraulic Brake Options |
Hi Dre,
No I did not use O'briens system so I don't know what they
can offer.
But I was in the braking game ( years ago ) where we designed
brakes for different applicatios from the motor industry (racing cars to
heavy trucks) to drag brakes for mine hoists & winches. It is a very
technical subject and brakes are normally designed for a very specific
function and is always a compromise when you need say a drag brake (for
slowing over a long period) and an emergency brake (for stopping quicky
within seconds). In simplistic terms, In the first instance you need a
Low friction material, with a big contact area, using a low pressure
system, so as not to generate excessive heat and burn the lining out, In
the second instance for quick stopping you need High Friction Material
and high pressure for your quick stopping, remember energy converts into
heat so you can't have a long application of the brakes without fade or
burn out of the lining in this instance.
Now with the Pulsar nose wheel you are steering and braking,
ie in a compromise situation at each end of the scale because you want a
Drag brake for steering and an emergency brake for stopping, So you have
the choice of light weight band brake or a heavier disc brake system ,
both have there compromise situations. so you must fly accordingly to
what you have installed, so as not to extend the limits of thier weakest
features.
I went for the light drag drum brake and taildragger config
for steering.
I hope this helps with understanding some of the braking
problems expressed recently. As mentioned this is a very technical
subject and have been unable to give a full explaination in this short
text, but I could try and answer some specific questions if necessary.
Keith
----- Original Message -----
From: d. re
To: Pulsar-Aviators@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2011 8:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] Hydraulic Brake Options
great idea
do you have obriens and if so does he have different grades of
friction materials
that you know of
tks
dre
--- On Fri, 1/14/11, Keith Palmer <kdpalmer@mweb.co.za> wrote:
From: Keith Palmer <kdpalmer@mweb.co.za>
Subject: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] Hydraulic Brake Options
To: Pulsar-Aviators@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, January 14, 2011, 3:49 PM
=EF=BB
If you are not getting enough pad pressure try a higher
friction grade material for improved braking, but remember you will
generate more heat so don't over do it.
Keith
----- Original Message -----
From: david edwards
To: Pulsar-Aviators@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 6:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] Hydraulic Brake Options
Ron I put the obreins on my 582 but I used to small of
Cylinders and don't effect enough pad pressure to lock
Them up
From the desk of dre
On Jan 10, 2011, at 10:41 AM, Ron Koval <ronko11@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Pulsar Enthusiasts,
I am in the process of converting my band brakes to
hydraulics. I got the master cylinder installation well along, but
haven't purchased a brake system for the main wheels yet.
Here are the options I am very aware of. First the most
popular Matco WHLW50CC.75 wheel and internal caliper with WHLAXLE7 axle.
The other option I have found which would use my current AZUSA 5"
wheels is the Great Plains brake kit
http://www.greatplainsas.com/schbrakes.html which I don't know of
anybody that has used this system. I also called Tracy Obrien about his
C90 brakes which also works with the AZUSA 5" wheels, but he did not
have any in stock and seemed reluctant to commit to an order.
Outside of the Matco system, is there anybody that has had
success with one of these other or another wheel/hydraulic brake system?
Best regards,
Ron Koval
N1037L
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| Subject: | Fw: [Pulsar-Aviators] Hydraulic Brake Options |
=0AFrom: Ron Koval <ronko11@yahoo.com>=0ATo: Pulsar-Aviators@yahoogroups.co
m=0ASent: Mon, January 17, 2011 1:36:03 PM=0ASubject: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators]
Hydraulic Brake Options=0A=0A=0ADisc Brake Pulsars Owners:=0A=0AThe respon
ses sharing experiences with brakes on our Pulsars has been a great =0Alear
ning experience for me.=0A=0AI need to ask those that have disc brake syste
ms a question.=C2- Previous to owning =0Aa Pulsar, I owned a Grumman Chee
tah that has a castering nose wheel, =0Adifferential steering and braking w
ith hydraulic brakes, with gross weight of =0A2200lbs.=C2- To the best of
my memory, I don't ever remember experiencing brake =0Afade, a manufacture
d a/c may have twice the brake it needs for safety margin.=C2- =0AWhen I
had new brake pads installed, the mechanic gave me specific instructions,
=0Ato glaze the brakes.=C2-=C2-Two to three passes of his 4000' runway,
applying the =0Abrakes heavily to build up heat and glaze the pads.=C2-
He noted, you know you are =0Adone when at the end of the=C2-second or th
ird pass, while maintaining your =0Athrottle, you still increase braking po
wer significantly.=C2- He also noted that =0Abrakes need=C2-to be=C2-
used enough to=C2-produce enough heat to maintain this glazing, =0Aso don
't baby them with long roll outs.=0A=0ADo you Pulsar owners with Matco and
other disc brake, do this glazing process on =0Aa new set of brake pads?=0A
=0AIn advance, thanks again for your valuable feedback.=0A=0ARon=0A=0A=0A
=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Peter Walker <peterwalker58@
yahoo.com>=0ATo: Pulsar-Aviators@yahoogroups.com=0ASent: Mon, January 17, 2
011 4:07:18 AM=0ASubject: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] Hydraulic Brake Options=0A
=0A=C2- =0AHello =0ABrakes and everything in life is a compromise The tri
ck is picking the one that =0Aworks for YOU=0AA Pulsar is a fairly slippery
bird and lands normally on paved runways with =0Alittle rolling=C2-resis
tance Your main concern is stopping from speed in a =0Acontrolled and=C2-
consistent=C2-manner Once per flight Pads don't make heat They =0Aconvert
kinetic energy to heat High friction pads only convert it faster by =0Ared
ucing the time and distance=0A=C2-As for the difficulty in locking up the
brakes (mag check?) its possible you =0Aare suffering knock off where the
pads are knocked open by the wheel rocking =0Abecause of freeplay or warped
discs You then lose much of the cylinders stroke =0Ajust taking up slack Y
ou may also might be using hoses with too low a pressure =0Arating that swe
ll when under pressure=C2-=0ABTW I worked with brakes too=0APeter=0A=0A
=0A--- On Mon, 1/17/11, Keith Palmer <kdpalmer@mweb.co.za> wrote:=0A=0A=0A>
From: Keith Palmer <kdpalmer@mweb.co.za>=0A>Subject: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators]
Hydraulic Brake Options=0A>To: Pulsar-Aviators@yahoogroups.com=0A>Cc: pulsa
r-list@matronics.com=0A>Date: Monday, January 17, 2011, 8:00 PM=0A>=0A>=0A>
=C2- =0A>=EF=BB =0A>Hi Dre,=0A>=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2
-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- No I did not use=C2-O'briens system so
I=C2-don't know what they can =0A>offer.=0A>=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2
-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-But I was in the braking game ( years ago ) whe
re we designed brakes =0A>for different applicatios from the motor industry
(racing cars to heavy trucks)=C2- =0A>to drag brakes for mine hoists & w
inches. It is a very technical subject and =0A>brakes are normally designed
=C2- for a very specific=C2-function and is always a =0A>compromise whe
n you need say a drag brake (for slowing over a long period)=C2- and =0A>
an emergency brake (for stopping quicky within seconds). In simplistic =0A>
terms,=C2-=C2-In the first instance you need a Low friction material, w
ith a big =0A>contact area, using a low pressure system, so as not to gener
ate excessive heat =0A>and burn the lining out, In the second instance for
quick stopping you need High =0A>Friction Material and high pressure for yo
ur quick stopping, remember energy =0A>converts into heat so you can't have
a long application of the brakes without =0A>fade or burn out of the linin
g in this instance.=0A>=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2
-=C2- Now with the Pulsar nose wheel=C2- you are steering and braking
, ie in a =0A>compromise situation at each end of the scale=C2-because yo
u want a Drag brake for =0A>steering and an emergency brake for stopping, S
o you have the choice of light =0A>weight band brake or a heavier disc brak
e system , both have there compromise =0A>situations. so you must fly accor
dingly to what you have installed, so as not to =0A>extend the limits of th
ier weakest features.=0A>=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- I went for the light drag drum brake and taildragg
er config for =0A>steering.=0A>=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-I hope this helps with understanding=C2
-=C2-some of the braking problems =0A>expressed recently. As mentioned
this is a very technical subject and have been =0A>unable to give a full ex
plaination in this short text, but I=C2-could try and =0A>answer some spe
cific questions if necessary.=0A>=C2-=0A>Keith=C2-=C2- =0A>=C2-=C2
-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
=0A>=C2-=0A>----- Original Message ----- =0A>>From: d. re =0A>>To: Pulsa
r-Aviators@yahoogroups.com =0A>>Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2011 8:13 PM=0A
>>Subject: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] Hydraulic Brake Options=0A>>=0A>>=C2-
=0A>>great idea=0A>>do you have obriens and if so does he have different gr
ades of friction =0A>>materials=0A>>that you know of=0A>>tks=0A>>dre=0A>>
=0A>>--- On Fri, 1/14/11, Keith Palmer <kdpalmer@mweb.co.za> wrote:=0A>>=0A
>>=0A>>>From: Keith Palmer <kdpalmer@mweb.co.za>=0A>>>Subject: Re: [Pulsar-
Aviators] Hydraulic Brake Options=0A>>>To: Pulsar-Aviators@yahoogroups.com
=0A>>>Date: Friday, January 14, 2011, 3:49 PM=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=C2- =0A>>
>=EF=BB =0A>>>If you are not getting enough pad pressure try a higher fr
iction grade material =0A>>>for improved braking, but remember you will gen
erate more heat so don't over do =0A>>>it.=0A>>>=C2-=0A>>>Keith=0A>>>=C2
-=0A>>>=C2-=0A>>>=C2-=0A>>>----- Original Message ----- =0A>>>>From:
david edwards =0A>>>>To: Pulsar-Aviators@yahoogroups.com =0A>>>>Sent: Monda
y, January 10, 2011 6:21 PM=0A>>>>Subject: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] Hydraulic
Brake Options=0A>>>>=0A>>>>=C2- =0A>>>>Ron I put the obreins on my 582
=C2-but I used to small of=0A>>>>Cylinders and don't effect enough pad pr
essure to lock=0A>>>>Them up=0A>>>>=0A>>>>=0A>>>>=0A>>>>=0A>>>>From the des
k of dre=0A>>>>=0A>>>>On Jan 10, 2011, at 10:41 AM, Ron Koval <ronko11@yaho
o.com> wrote:=0A>>>>=0A>>>>=0A>>>>=C2- =0A>>>>>Pulsar Enthusiasts,=0A>>>>
>=0A>>>>>I am in the process of converting my band brakes to hydraulics.=C2
- I got the =0A>>>>>master cylinder installation well along, but haven't
purchased a brake system =0A>>>>>for the main wheels yet.=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>He
re are the options I am very aware of.=C2-=C2-=C2-First the most popu
lar Matco =0A>>>>>WHLW50CC.75 wheel and internal caliper with WHLAXLE7 axle
.=C2- The other option I =0A>>>>>have found which would use my current AZ
USA 5" wheels is the Great Plains brake =0A>>>>>kit http://www.greatplainsa
s.com/schbrakes.html=C2-which I don't know of anybody =0A>>>>>that has us
ed this system.=C2- I also called Tracy Obrien about his C90 brakes =0A>>
>>>which also works with the AZUSA 5" wheels, but he did not have any in st
ock and =0A>>>>>seemed reluctant to commit to an order.=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>Outs
ide of the Matco system, is there anybody that has had success with one of
=0A>>>>>these other or another wheel/hydraulic brake system?=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>
>Best regards,=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>Ron Koval=0A>>>>>N1037L =0A>> =0A__._,_.___
=0AReply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post | Start a New Topi
c =0AMessages in this topic (15) =0A=0ARecent Activity: * New Members 4
=0AVisit Your Group =0A =0ASwitch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest =A2 Uns
ubscribe =A2 Terms of Use=0A. =0A=0A__,_._,___
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Fw: [Pulsar-Aviators] Hydraulic Brake Options |
Ron, I will try and answer queries within your text :-
Disc Brake Pulsars Owners:
The responses sharing experiences with brakes on our Pulsars has been a
great learning experience for me.
I need to ask those that have disc brake systems a question. Previous
to owning a Pulsar, I owned a Grumman Cheetah that has a castering nose
wheel, differential steering and braking with hydraulic brakes, with
gross weight of 2200lbs. To the best of my memory, I don't ever
remember experiencing brake fade, a manufactured a/c may have twice the
brake it needs for safety margin.You are right they have used a low to
medium friction material to avoid fade and burning but have given you a
high pressure caliper (Heavy) which will give you better braking with
this material When I had new brake pads installed, the mechanic gave me
specific instructions, to glaze the brakes. Two to three passes of his
4000' runway, applying the brakes heavily to build up heat and glaze the
pads. He noted, you know you are done when at the end of the second or
third pass, while maintaining your throttle, you still increase braking
power significantly. He also noted that brakes need to be used enough
to produce enough heat to maintain this glazing, so don't baby them with
long roll outs. When pads are made and baked they only get a crust on
the surface ( like bread ) as they wear down they keep the mating
surface crust baked hard, When you replace pads without skimming the
discs you normally find the disc has a corrigated surface. So you need
to bed the pads in ( Glaze ) as only the high ridges on the disc will
touch the new flat pad and only the areas touching will act as a
breaking surface could be down to 10% .And when they are bedded in
(glazed) will they give you full mating and therefore braking. You
should not let the discs get to corrigated as this increases the braking
pad square area which will need more hydraulic pressure to get the same
pounds per square inch to get the correct breaking pressure on the disc
Do you Pulsar owners with Matco and other disc brake, do this glazing
process on a new set of brake pads?Best give a light skim if needed on
your car and plane discs and go easy until bedded in
In advance, thanks again for your valuable feedback.
Ron
Hope this gives some ideas on the points raised.
Keith
----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Koval
To: Pulsar Builders
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 9:37 PM
Subject: Pulsar-List: Fw: [Pulsar-Aviators] Hydraulic Brake Options
From: Ron Koval <ronko11@yahoo.com>
To: Pulsar-Aviators@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, January 17, 2011 1:36:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] Hydraulic Brake Options
Disc Brake Pulsars Owners:
The responses sharing experiences with brakes on our Pulsars has been
a great learning experience for me.
I need to ask those that have disc brake systems a question. Previous
to owning a Pulsar, I owned a Grumman Cheetah that has a castering nose
wheel, differential steering and braking with hydraulic brakes, with
gross weight of 2200lbs. To the best of my memory, I don't ever
remember experiencing brake fade, a manufactured a/c may have twice the
brake it needs for safety margin. When I had new brake pads installed,
the mechanic gave me specific instructions, to glaze the brakes. Two to
three passes of his 4000' runway, applying the brakes heavily to build
up heat and glaze the pads. He noted, you know you are done when at the
end of the second or third pass, while maintaining your throttle, you
still increase braking power significantly. He also noted that brakes
need to be used enough to produce enough heat to maintain this glazing,
so don't baby them with long roll outs.
Do you Pulsar owners with Matco and other disc brake, do this glazing
process on a new set of brake pads?
In advance, thanks again for your valuable feedback.
Ron
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: Peter Walker <peterwalker58@yahoo.com>
To: Pulsar-Aviators@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, January 17, 2011 4:07:18 AM
Subject: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] Hydraulic Brake Options
Hello
Brakes and everything in life is a compromise The trick is
picking the one that works for YOU
A Pulsar is a fairly slippery bird and lands normally on paved
runways with little rolling resistance Your main concern is stopping
from speed in a controlled and consistent manner Once per flight Pads
don't make heat They convert kinetic energy to heat High friction pads
only convert it faster by reducing the time and distance
As for the difficulty in locking up the brakes (mag check?) its
possible you are suffering knock off where the pads are knocked open by
the wheel rocking because of freeplay or warped discs You then lose much
of the cylinders stroke just taking up slack You may also might be using
hoses with too low a pressure rating that swell when under pressure
BTW I worked with brakes too
Peter
--- On Mon, 1/17/11, Keith Palmer <kdpalmer@mweb.co.za> wrote:
From: Keith Palmer <kdpalmer@mweb.co.za>
Subject: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] Hydraulic Brake Options
To: Pulsar-Aviators@yahoogroups.com
Cc: pulsar-list@matronics.com
Date: Monday, January 17, 2011, 8:00 PM
=EF=BB
Hi Dre,
No I did not use O'briens system so I don't know
what they can offer.
But I was in the braking game ( years ago ) where we
designed brakes for different applicatios from the motor industry
(racing cars to heavy trucks) to drag brakes for mine hoists & winches.
It is a very technical subject and brakes are normally designed for a
very specific function and is always a compromise when you need say a
drag brake (for slowing over a long period) and an emergency brake (for
stopping quicky within seconds). In simplistic terms, In the first
instance you need a Low friction material, with a big contact area,
using a low pressure system, so as not to generate excessive heat and
burn the lining out, In the second instance for quick stopping you need
High Friction Material and high pressure for your quick stopping,
remember energy converts into heat so you can't have a long application
of the brakes without fade or burn out of the lining in this instance.
Now with the Pulsar nose wheel you are steering
and braking, ie in a compromise situation at each end of the scale
because you want a Drag brake for steering and an emergency brake for
stopping, So you have the choice of light weight band brake or a heavier
disc brake system , both have there compromise situations. so you must
fly accordingly to what you have installed, so as not to extend the
limits of thier weakest features.
I went for the light drag drum brake and
taildragger config for steering.
I hope this helps with understanding some of the
braking problems expressed recently. As mentioned this is a very
technical subject and have been unable to give a full explaination in
this short text, but I could try and answer some specific questions if
necessary.
Keith
----- Original Message -----
From: d. re
To: Pulsar-Aviators@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2011 8:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] Hydraulic Brake Options
great idea
do you have obriens and if so does he have different
grades of friction materials
that you know of
tks
dre
--- On Fri, 1/14/11, Keith Palmer
<kdpalmer@mweb.co.za> wrote:
From: Keith Palmer <kdpalmer@mweb.co.za>
Subject: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] Hydraulic Brake
Options
To: Pulsar-Aviators@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, January 14, 2011, 3:49 PM
=EF=BB
If you are not getting enough pad pressure try a
higher friction grade material for improved braking, but remember you
will generate more heat so don't over do it.
Keith
----- Original Message -----
From: david edwards
To: Pulsar-Aviators@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 6:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] Hydraulic Brake
Options
Ron I put the obreins on my 582 but I used to
small of
Cylinders and don't effect enough pad pressure to
lock
Them up
From the desk of dre
On Jan 10, 2011, at 10:41 AM, Ron Koval
<ronko11@yahoo.com> wrote:
Pulsar Enthusiasts,
I am in the process of converting my band brakes
to hydraulics. I got the master cylinder installation well along, but
haven't purchased a brake system for the main wheels yet.
Here are the options I am very aware of. First
the most popular Matco WHLW50CC.75 wheel and internal caliper with
WHLAXLE7 axle. The other option I have found which would use my current
AZUSA 5" wheels is the Great Plains brake kit
http://www.greatplainsas.com/schbrakes.html which I don't know of
anybody that has used this system. I also called Tracy Obrien about his
C90 brakes which also works with the AZUSA 5" wheels, but he did not
have any in stock and seemed reluctant to commit to an order.
Outside of the Matco system, is there anybody
that has had success with one of these other or another wheel/hydraulic
brake system?
Best regards,
Ron Koval
N1037L
__._,_.___
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Messages in this topic (15)
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