Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:15 AM - Trouble Shooting N912RV (Bob Heiser)
2. 08:39 AM - Re: Trouble Shooting N912RV (barrynorman@comcast.net)
3. 08:53 AM - Re: Trouble Shooting N912RV (Crowley, Kelly P)
4. 08:55 AM - Re: Trouble Shooting N912RV (GREGSMI@aol.com)
5. 10:38 AM - Re: Pulsar gathering (HUGH COULTER)
6. 12:12 PM - Re: Trouble Shooting N912RV (Terry Armstrong)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Trouble Shooting N912RV |
Trouble Shooting N912RV
Group,
Looking for your experiences or ideas as to why the Rotax 912uls in my
Pulsar failed on takeoff.
*Event Description:*
I added fuel to N912RV's right tank to bring the total fuel in the tank
to about 6 gallons.I ran the 12v electric fuel pump for about 20 seconds
before starting the engine.I taxied to the runway (about 2 minutes)
checked the mag's at 4000 rpm and left the engine running at 4000 rpm to
bring the oil temperature up to 120 degrees (another 2 minutes).I took
off and climbed to about 50' and the engine ran rough for 3 or 4 seconds
then died completely.Fuel selector was on the right tank and the 12v
electric fuel pump was off.Also the temperature and dew point eliminate
the possibility of carb ice.
*Trouble Shooting*
With permission from the NTSB and the help of my son and I trouble shot
the loss of power.Note: The N912RV has since been picked up by the
insurance company.
Mechanical Fuel Pump was removed from engine, put in vice and pumped
fuel from jar A to jar B.
The 6 gallons of fuel in the Right Tank was lost due to crash
damage.However we removed the quick drain and were able to catch about 1
OZ of fuel, no water in the fuel.Also the lawn mower has been operating
on the same gas both before the accident and after.
We opened up the right tank above the fuel pickup and found no debris
or obstructions by the fuel pickup elbow.The tank coating was not
pealing of flaking off.
A clear glass fuel filter above the engine near the mechanical fuel
pump was empty of fuel after the accident.We were able to blow thru the
fuel filter in both directions and the filter was clean and contined no
debris.Also the mechanical fuel pump when removed from the engine had
little fuel also indicating a fuel starvation problem.
We pulled the engine thru 4 compression strokes after the accident.
All the fuel lines removed looked in great shape.
We removed the wings to get access to the fuel selector and 12v. Fuel pump.
The fuel selector was removed tested and operated normally.
We were unable to blow from the fuel filter back thru the 12v fuel pump
and fuel selector into the right tank.Thought we had found a problem, we
later found out there is a check valve in the 12v fuel pump.However
after removing the 12v fuel pump (it got bumped around during removal)
we were able to blow thru it in either direction, check valve was not
working.I sent the 12v fuel pump to the NTSB and they tested the pump
and it pumped normally and the check valve was working normally.
Note the Facet 12v fuel pump was supplied in the Aero Designs Kit.There
is no part number on the fuel pump, only a UL number, 574A, US patent
numbers and the voltage 12v.The instillation instructions describe it as
a "Solid State Electronic Fuel Pump". It is turned on for 15 seconds
prior to engine start.There were early reports of the electric pump and
mechanical pump both on flooding the carburetors, therefore I used 12v
electric pump only before starting and emergencies.
--
*God Bless
Bob Heiser W7IKT*
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Trouble Shooting N912RV |
Bob,
=C2-
I have had multiple experiences with my Pulsar, both the 912 and the 912S w
here after landing and refueling, getting it started again due to the heat
causing the gas to boil in the carbs and creating vapor lock. Once the engi
ne gets restarted it will run rough for several seconds before clearing up.
It's never died before but come close. I wrapped the exhaust with header w
rap and that helped the situation. Twice, on extended delays for takeoff, I
had rough running do excessive temps under the cowling and vapor lock issu
es. I think it's worse with ethanol in the gas. My exhaust is the Pulsar II
I exhaust that sits under the engine.
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Heiser" <w7ikt@fly-web.us>
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 11:13:36 AM
Subject: Pulsar-List: Trouble Shooting N912RV
Trouble Shooting N912RV
Group,
Looking for your experiences or ideas as to why the Rotax 912uls in my Puls
ar failed on takeoff.
Event Description:
I added fuel to N912RV=99s right tank to bring the total fuel in the
tank to about 6 gallons. =C2-=C2- I ran the 12v electric fuel pump for
about 20 seconds before starting the engine. =C2- I taxied to the runway
(about 2 minutes) checked the mag=99s at 4000 rpm and left the engine
running at 4000 rpm to bring the oil temperature up to 120 degrees (anothe
r 2 minutes). =C2- I took off and climbed to about 50=99 and the en
gine ran rough for 3 or 4 seconds then died completely. =C2- Fuel selecto
r was on the right tank and the 12v electric fuel pump was off. =C2- Also
the temperature and dew point eliminate the possibility of carb ice.
=C2-
Trouble Shooting
With permission from the NTSB and the help of my son and I trouble shot the
loss of power. =C2- Note: The N912RV has since been picked up by the ins
urance company.
<!--[if !supportLists]--> =C2=B7 =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
<!--[endif]-->Mechanical Fuel Pump was removed from engine, put in vice an
d pumped fuel from jar A to jar B.
<!--[if !supportLists]--> =C2=B7 =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
<!--[endif]-->The 6 gallons of fuel in the Right Tank was lost due to cras
h damage. =C2- However we removed the quick drain and were able to catch
about 1 OZ of fuel, no water in the fuel. =C2-=C2- Also the lawn mower
has been operating on the same gas both before the accident and after.
<!--[if !supportLists]--> =C2=B7 =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
<!--[endif]-->We opened up the right tank above the fuel pickup and found
no debris or obstructions by the fuel pickup elbow. =C2- The tank coating
was not pealing of flaking off.
<!--[if !supportLists]--> =C2=B7 =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
<!--[endif]-->A clear glass fuel filter above the engine near the mechanic
al fuel pump was empty of fuel after the accident. =C2- We were able to b
low thru the fuel filter in both directions and the filter was clean and co
ntined no debris. =C2- Also the mechanical fuel pump when removed from th
e engine had little fuel also indicating a fuel starvation problem.
<!--[if !supportLists]--> =C2=B7 =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
<!--[endif]-->We pulled the engine thru 4 compression strokes after the ac
cident.
<!--[if !supportLists]--> =C2=B7 =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
<!--[endif]-->All the fuel lines removed looked in great shape.
<!--[if !supportLists]--> =C2=B7 =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
<!--[endif]-->We removed the wings to get access to the fuel selector and
12v. Fuel pump.
<!--[if !supportLists]--> =C2=B7 =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
<!--[endif]-->The fuel selector was removed tested and operated normally.
<!--[if !supportLists]--> =C2=B7 =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
<!--[endif]-->We were unable to blow from the fuel filter back thru the 12
v fuel pump and fuel selector into the right tank. =C2- Thought we had fo
und a problem, we later found out there is a check valve in the 12v fuel pu
mp. =C2- However after removing the 12v fuel pump (it got bumped around d
uring removal) we were able to blow thru it in either direction, check valv
e was not working. =C2-=C2- I sent the 12v fuel pump to the NTSB and th
ey tested the pump and it pumped normally and the check valve was working n
ormally.
Note the Facet 12v fuel pump was supplied in the Aero Designs Kit. =C2- T
here is no part number on the fuel pump, only a UL number, 574A, US patent
numbers and the voltage 12v. =C2- The instillation instructions describe
it as a =9CSolid State Electronic Fuel Pump=9D. It is turned on
for 15 seconds prior to engine start. =C2- There were early reports of t
he electric pump and mechanical pump both on flooding the carburetors, ther
efore I used 12v electric pump only before starting and emergencies.
=C2-
--
God Bless
=======
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Trouble Shooting N912RV |
Bob,
So, engine will run with three things.... Fuel, air, spark... Did yo
u look at the electrical system and assure you the mags are working? Don't
see anything about the carbs? Test to assure no obstructions? settings?
Kelly Crowley
Sr Production Manager, Cell 10
Boeing Charleston, S.C.
Cell: 316-304-5711
e-mail: kelly.p.crowley@boeing.com
787 DREAM?LINER
________________________________
From: owner-pulsar-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pulsar-list-serv
er@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Heiser
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 11:14 AM
Subject: Pulsar-List: Trouble Shooting N912RV
Trouble Shooting N912RV
Group,
Looking for your experiences or ideas as to why the Rotax 912uls in my Puls
ar failed on takeoff.
Event Description:
I added fuel to N912RV's right tank to bring the total fuel in the tank to
about 6 gallons. I ran the 12v electric fuel pump for about 20 seconds be
fore starting the engine. I taxied to the runway (about 2 minutes) checked
the mag's at 4000 rpm and left the engine running at 4000 rpm to bring the
oil temperature up to 120 degrees (another 2 minutes). I took off and cli
mbed to about 50' and the engine ran rough for 3 or 4 seconds then died com
pletely. Fuel selector was on the right tank and the 12v electric fuel pum
p was off. Also the temperature and dew point eliminate the possibility of
carb ice.
Trouble Shooting
With permission from the NTSB and the help of my son and I trouble shot the
loss of power. Note: The N912RV has since been picked up by the insurance
company.
<!--[if !supportLists]-->* <!--[endif]-->Mechanical Fuel Pump was re
moved from engine, put in vice and pumped fuel from jar A to jar B.
<!--[if !supportLists]-->* <!--[endif]-->The 6 gallons of fuel in th
e Right Tank was lost due to crash damage. However we removed the quick dr
ain and were able to catch about 1 OZ of fuel, no water in the fuel. Also
the lawn mower has been operating on the same gas both before the accident
and after.
<!--[if !supportLists]-->* <!--[endif]-->We opened up the right tank
above the fuel pickup and found no debris or obstructions by the fuel pick
up elbow. The tank coating was not pealing of flaking off.
<!--[if !supportLists]-->* <!--[endif]-->A clear glass fuel filter a
bove the engine near the mechanical fuel pump was empty of fuel after the a
ccident. We were able to blow thru the fuel filter in both directions and
the filter was clean and contined no debris. Also the mechanical fuel pump
when removed from the engine had little fuel also indicating a fuel starva
tion problem.
<!--[if !supportLists]-->* <!--[endif]-->We pulled the engine thru 4
compression strokes after the accident.
<!--[if !supportLists]-->* <!--[endif]-->All the fuel lines removed
looked in great shape.
<!--[if !supportLists]-->* <!--[endif]-->We removed the wings to get
access to the fuel selector and 12v. Fuel pump.
<!--[if !supportLists]-->* <!--[endif]-->The fuel selector was remov
ed tested and operated normally.
<!--[if !supportLists]-->* <!--[endif]-->We were unable to blow from
the fuel filter back thru the 12v fuel pump and fuel selector into the rig
ht tank. Thought we had found a problem, we later found out there is a che
ck valve in the 12v fuel pump. However after removing the 12v fuel pump (i
t got bumped around during removal) we were able to blow thru it in either
direction, check valve was not working. I sent the 12v fuel pump to the N
TSB and they tested the pump and it pumped normally and the check valve was
working normally.
Note the Facet 12v fuel pump was supplied in the Aero Designs Kit. There i
s no part number on the fuel pump, only a UL number, 574A, US patent number
s and the voltage 12v. The instillation instructions describe it as a "Sol
id State Electronic Fuel Pump". It is turned on for 15 seconds prior to eng
ine start. There were early reports of the electric pump and mechanical pu
mp both on flooding the carburetors, therefore I used 12v electric pump onl
y before starting and emergencies.
--
God Bless
Bob Heiser W7IKT
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Trouble Shooting N912RV |
Bob, did you check the tank vent to see of it was plugged? How about the
breather pipes on the carbs, did you change anything with them? An early
builder decided to extend these to the bottom of the cowl and had engine
failure at 100 feet.
In a message dated 5/17/2012 10:15:46 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
w7ikt@fly-web.us writes:
Trouble Shooting N912RV
Group,
Looking for your experiences or ideas as to why the Rotax 912uls in my
Pulsar failed on takeoff.
Event Description:
I added fuel to N912RV=99s right tank to bring the total fuel in the
tank to
about 6 gallons. I ran the 12v electric fuel pump for about 20 seconds
before starting the engine. I taxied to the runway (about 2 minutes)
checked the mag=99s at 4000 rpm and left the engine running at 4000 r
pm to bring
the oil temperature up to 120 degrees (another 2 minutes). I took off and
climbed to about 50=99 and the engine ran rough for 3 or 4 seconds t
hen died
completely. Fuel selector was on the right tank and the 12v electric fuel
pump was off. Also the temperature and dew point eliminate the possibilit
y
of carb ice.
Trouble Shooting
With permission from the NTSB and the help of my son and I trouble shot
the loss of power. Note: The N912RV has since been picked up by the
insurance company.
<!--[if !supportLists]-->=C2=B7 <!--[endif]-->Mechanical Fuel Pump
was
removed from engine, put in vice and pumped fuel from jar A to jar B.
<!--[if !supportLists]-->=C2=B7 <!--[endif]-->The 6 gallons of fuel
in
the Right Tank was lost due to crash damage. However we removed the quic
k
drain and were able to catch about 1 OZ of fuel, no water in the fuel.
Also the lawn mower has been operating on the same gas both before the
accident and after.
<!--[if !supportLists]-->=C2=B7 <!--[endif]-->We opened up the righ
t
tank above the fuel pickup and found no debris or obstructions by the fuel
pickup elbow. The tank coating was not pealing of flaking off.
<!--[if !supportLists]-->=C2=B7 <!--[endif]-->A clear glass fuel fi
lter
above the engine near the mechanical fuel pump was empty of fuel after the
accident. We were able to blow thru the fuel filter in both directions
and the filter was clean and contined no debris. Also the mechanical fue
l
pump when removed from the engine had little fuel also indicating a fuel
starvation problem.
<!--[if !supportLists]-->=C2=B7 <!--[endif]-->We pulled the engine
thru
4 compression strokes after the accident.
<!--[if !supportLists]-->=C2=B7 <!--[endif]-->All the fuel lines re
moved
looked in great shape.
<!--[if !supportLists]-->=C2=B7 <!--[endif]-->We removed the wings
to
get access to the fuel selector and 12v. Fuel pump.
<!--[if !supportLists]-->=C2=B7 <!--[endif]-->The fuel selector was
removed tested and operated normally.
<!--[if !supportLists]-->=C2=B7 <!--[endif]-->We were unable to blo
w
from the fuel filter back thru the 12v fuel pump and fuel selector into th
e
right tank. Thought we had found a problem, we later found out there is a
check valve in the 12v fuel pump. However after removing the 12v fuel pum
p
(it got bumped around during removal) we were able to blow thru it in eith
er
direction, check valve was not working. I sent the 12v fuel pump to the
NTSB and they tested the pump and it pumped normally and the check valve wa
s
working normally.
Note the Facet 12v fuel pump was supplied in the Aero Designs Kit. There
is no part number on the fuel pump, only a UL number, 574A, US patent
numbers and the voltage 12v. The instillation instructions describe it a
s a =9C
Solid State Electronic Fuel Pump=9D. It is turned on for 15 seconds
prior to
engine start. There were early reports of the electric pump and mechanica
l
pump both on flooding the carburetors, therefore I used 12v electric pump
only before starting and emergencies.
_--
God Bless
Bob Heiser W7IKT
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Pulsar gathering |
Greg
I would like to come this year, will not know if I can
make it until the last minute but will try.
Clarke
On Mon, 14 May 2012 18:02:27 -0400 (EDT)
GREGSMI@aol.com wrote:
> I have finally secured hotel rooms and conference room
>for the Pulsar
> gathering in Lawrence, Kansas. The dates are August 23 -
>26 at the Holiday Inn
> Express and KLWC Lawrence airport. I do not have a quote
> from the caterer
> but expect to be able to do whole thing for $125 per
> person.
>
> I need to hear from you. What topics would you like to
>discuss, any
> speakers you would like to have? Are you planning to
>attend? Please take five
> minutes to get back to me with your ideas and if you
> will attend.
>
> I will work on scheduling speakers based upon the
>response, so please get
> back to me ASAP.
>
> I am waiting on your response.
>
>
> Greg Smith
> Pulsar/582/2200
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Trouble Shooting N912RV |
Bob, and All,
For a period of time, I had problems with a rough running engine (912UL)
after a warm start; whereas it always ran fine after a cold start. I had
essentially attributed the problem to vapor lock of some kind, although I
could never find the cause. A few years ago, with the help of fellow
builder, we finally resolved the issue as a corroded spring within the
carburetor.
The carburetors have some very small internal passageways that are easy to
clog and will absolutely cause problems for smooth engine operation. The
corroding spring was shedding debris into the passageways, which was causing
my particular problem. I never had an engine failure, but it definitely ran
very rough after a warm start. I suspect ethanol in the fuel was leading to
the corrosion. The corrosion didn't look like much during the original
discovery, but the impact was not trivial. Incidentally, ensuring those
carburetor passages remain clean seemed to nearly eliminate any RPM drop
between "mags" (circuits) on the check.
I had sent an email to the group detailing my situation along with spring
failures on the exhaust, but I think the email was rejected from the old
server since I had pictures to explain the problem. I've had a few other
emails fail to go through, not realizing at the time that photos were an
issue. Ultimately, I posted the information on my website. If you think
the problem could be similar, I've got a repeat of the description and
picture of the exact part at the bottom of the page. To see, click on the
following link and then "Ongoing Pulsar work":
http://terryarmstrong.com/aviation/index.html
Terry
N279TA
PS- Orv, sorry to hear you are saying goodbye to your Pulsar. I enjoyed my
previous opportunity to fly into Roswell and our visit!
_____
From: owner-pulsar-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pulsar-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Heiser
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 9:14 AM
Subject: Pulsar-List: Trouble Shooting N912RV
Trouble Shooting N912RV
Group,
Looking for your experiences or ideas as to why the Rotax 912uls in my
Pulsar failed on takeoff.
Event Description:
I added fuel to N912RV's right tank to bring the total fuel in the tank to
about 6 gallons. I ran the 12v electric fuel pump for about 20 seconds
before starting the engine. I taxied to the runway (about 2 minutes)
checked the mag's at 4000 rpm and left the engine running at 4000 rpm to
bring the oil temperature up to 120 degrees (another 2 minutes). I took off
and climbed to about 50' and the engine ran rough for 3 or 4 seconds then
died completely. Fuel selector was on the right tank and the 12v electric
fuel pump was off. Also the temperature and dew point eliminate the
possibility of carb ice.
Trouble Shooting
With permission from the NTSB and the help of my son and I trouble shot the
loss of power. Note: The N912RV has since been picked up by the insurance
company.
* Mechanical Fuel Pump was removed from engine, put in vice and
pumped fuel from jar A to jar B.
* The 6 gallons of fuel in the Right Tank was lost due to crash
damage. However we removed the quick drain and were able to catch about 1
OZ of fuel, no water in the fuel. Also the lawn mower has been operating
on the same gas both before the accident and after.
* We opened up the right tank above the fuel pickup and found no
debris or obstructions by the fuel pickup elbow. The tank coating was not
pealing of flaking off.
* A clear glass fuel filter above the engine near the mechanical fuel
pump was empty of fuel after the accident. We were able to blow thru the
fuel filter in both directions and the filter was clean and contined no
debris. Also the mechanical fuel pump when removed from the engine had
little fuel also indicating a fuel starvation problem.
* We pulled the engine thru 4 compression strokes after the accident.
* All the fuel lines removed looked in great shape.
* We removed the wings to get access to the fuel selector and 12v.
Fuel pump.
* The fuel selector was removed tested and operated normally.
* We were unable to blow from the fuel filter back thru the 12v fuel
pump and fuel selector into the right tank. Thought we had found a problem,
we later found out there is a check valve in the 12v fuel pump. However
after removing the 12v fuel pump (it got bumped around during removal) we
were able to blow thru it in either direction, check valve was not working.
I sent the 12v fuel pump to the NTSB and they tested the pump and it pumped
normally and the check valve was working normally.
Note the Facet 12v fuel pump was supplied in the Aero Designs Kit. There is
no part number on the fuel pump, only a UL number, 574A, US patent numbers
and the voltage 12v. The instillation instructions describe it as a "Solid
State Electronic Fuel Pump". It is turned on for 15 seconds prior to engine
start. There were early reports of the electric pump and mechanical pump
both on flooding the carburetors, therefore I used 12v electric pump only
before starting and emergencies.
--
God Bless
Bob Heiser W7IKT
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|