Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:22 AM - Re: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup (Bernard Wilder)
2. 08:33 AM - Re: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup (barrynorman@comcast.net)
3. 01:41 PM - Re: Pulsar-List Digest: 17 Msgs - 09/12/12 (Bob Hartunian)
4. 04:41 PM - Re: Re: Pulsar-List Digest: 17 Msgs - 09/12/12 (Myron Truex)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup |
Right on Keith - - - -
That is why I reduced the size of my cowl openings by about 50% during the
building process. The size of the cowl openings were determined when a 582
was used as power and a small radiator was mounted just behind the openings
on each side. When the 912 was introduced and the plane became an XP, the
radiators were moved to the outlet of the cowl from than the inlets.
Howver, the size of the inlet openings was not changed when the radiators
were removed.
Bernie Wilder
On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 10:12 PM, Keith Palmer <kdpalmer@mweb.co.za> wrote:
> **
> Barry,
> What you must also concider is extraction and because the intake
> is relatively large (on a Pulsar I would say over sized) and ram fed, hi
gh
> pressure - the extraction should be at least three and a half times large
r
> being low pressure (basic principal) if you don't keep to this ratio you
> build up a high pressure under the cowl (some people have reported bulgin
g
> upper cowls) which restricts the flow.
> Look at the La Presti cowls very small inlets - good size
> extraction ( see a RV12) they don't seem to have a problem.
>
> Food for thought
>
> Keith
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* barrynorman@comcast.net
> *To:* pulsar-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:48 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>
> Thanks for all the helpful tips. When I referred to the manuals, I was
> speaking of the Skystar building manuals. I'm going to redo the fuel syst
em
> to include a fuel return and remounting the fuel pump and a fuel pump
> bypass with check valve. It's looks like I need more cool air under the
> cowling on hot days and I think I have a solution for that. While doing
> some research on it today, I found someone else who had the exact same
> issues in a Rotax 912s powered Dyn Aero MCR01. He had a fuel return and
> had the exact same symptoms as mine. Both planes have very tight cowlings
.
> His problem turned out to be overheating of the electronic ignition on wa
rm
> days. Here is the URL
> http://www.pprune.org/archive/index.php/t-271030.html.
>
>
> I have an air scoop on the side of my cowling that I use for a ram air
> setup during the warm months. During the winter I take the ram air off an
d
> plug the scoop with a tennis ball. If I remove the ball, it will let a lo
t
> more cool air into the top of the cowling when not using the ram air. Whe
n
> this problem occurred this summer I had it plugged without the ram system
> making very warm in the cowling.
>
>
> Thanks to all,
>
> Barry
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From: *"Ron Koval" <ronko@att.net>
> *To: *pulsar-list@matronics.com
> *Sent: *Wednesday, September 12, 2012 3:12:54 PM
> *Subject: *Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>
> Barry,
>
> Fixing a different fuel and engine run problem, I experienced what you
> refer to as fuel boil with my 582. The side of the engine compartment wi
th
> a gascolator, the carburetors and their fuel lines would get so hot on ho
t
> days that when I stopped the engine, I could hear the gurgle of the fuel
at
> a boil. If I quickly jumped out, opened the cowling, I could see a bubbl
e
> (vacuum) bounce in the fuel line(s). It also seems line the hottest thin
g
> of my engine, the muffler, sits right below the plumbing of the auxiliary
> fuel pump, gascolator and a major portion of the fuel line route, so when
> the engine is off, the convection of heat naturally wants to rise, but
> gets held in place by the cowling.
>
> I solved my problem by improving the the source of cool air. All of the
> air feeding the carburetors, and cooling the fuel distribution would go
> through the radiator at the left cowling air inlet. It was sealed well a
t
> top and bottom by its fiberglass mounts and then on the left and right wi
th
> heavy flexible, carefully cut to fit baffling material that was glued to
> the radiator sides (solved over-heating during taxiing on hot days). I
> removed one side of the baffling material to allow cool fresh air to this
> boiling fuel problem side. I don't have a boiling fuel problem anymore a
nd
> fortunately can still taxi on 90+ degree days without ever over heating.
>
> I hope this is of help. Try to get more cool air to the boiling fuel
> areas.
>
> Ronko
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* "barrynorman@comcast.net" <barrynorman@comcast.net>
> *To:* pulsar-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Wed, September 12, 2012 9:19:14 AM
> *Subject:* Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>
> I had an event this summer that was similiar but I don't think it had
> anything to do with the fuel pump. It was a fairly warm day and I had tak
en
> my son up for a ride in the Pulsar III and returned after a 30 minute
> flight where everything was perfectly normal. I shut the plane down for a
> few minutes while we loaded another passenger and had a very difficult ti
me
> restarting the plane. This was not anything new in this situation as I
> think the fuel starts to boil in the bowls making it difficult to start a
nd
> get fresh fuel in due to the pressure in the bowls. I finally got it
> started and it ran rough for a few minutes but cleared up. I taxied to th
e
> runway and as I fed in power for takeoff, the RPM dropped and the engine
> quit. The plane refused to restart so I brought it back to the hanger. I
> came back the next day and the plane started right up and ran fine. This
is
> a pattern I've noticed on my plane that appears to be vapor lock on warm
> days. Once those carb bowls get heat soaked from sitting, the problem sho
ws
> up.
>
>
> Barry
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From: *"Bob Heiser" <w7ikt@fly-web.us>
> *To: *pulsar-list@matronics.com
> *Sent: *Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:27:00 AM
> *Subject: *Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>
> Bob,
> This has some similarities to my accident. I believe the electric fuel
> pump blocked fuel flow in my plane. When the fuel pump was removed I cou
ld
> not blow thru it in either direction, should have been able to in the
> direction of flow. After shipping the fuel pump to the NTSB it operated
> normally. Do you have a bypass and check valve around the electric fuel
> pump?
> *God Bless
> Bob Heiser W7IKT*
> On 9/10/2012 6:23 PM, Bob Hartunian wrote:
>
>
> Flew out locally for bkfst on Sunday, past mountains to flatlands and
> landed and all was fine. Got back into plane 45 min later and started up
> fine. Did normal runup and had 5 gal in left tank, full right tank, runni
ng
> off left, all was fine.
> Took off normally and did another normal left crosswind turn toward home
> and mountains. All indications normal including fuel pressure. Climbing a
t
> 500 fpm, 100 mph, engine around 5100 rpm, when suddenly engine rpm drops
to
> almost idle. No shaking or vibes. Immediately kicked on electric fuel pum
p
> but saw no indications for low fuel pressure, and engine came back
> normally. I don=92t think the fuel pump really did anything as engine jus
t
> regained rpm and flew perfectly all the way home for another 20 min. out
> over desert just in case.
> I pulled cowl and checked things visually but no obvious problems. Don=92
t
> have a good explanation for why rpm dropped.
> Bob H
>
> __,_._,___
>
>
> * arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List p://fo
rums.matronics.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution *
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Puls===========
===========
>
> *
>
> = --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List
> ; http://forums.matronics.com
> blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> *
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
*
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup |
Keith,
=C2-
I agree that could be an issue but the openings on the Pulsar III are very
small and close to the center of the prop. On top of that, on my plane the
air flow=C2-is directed into an oil cooler on each side mounted at an ang
le with scoops that force all the air through the coolers before being dire
cted over the cylinder jugs. This preheats the air after going through the
coolers and reduces the pressure in the cowling. Currently,=C2-I think th
e outlet size is about the same area as the inlet size. I did have it trimm
ed larger when=C2-I first flew the aircraft due to warm oil temps but it
=C2-negatively affected drag quite a bit and was indicated in cruise spee
d. To solve that problem I added the second oil cooler and re-attached the
trimmed pieces on the=C2-cowling and everything was fine except this occa
sional warm start problem. The side scoop I have is very small, about the s
ize of a tennis ball and it routes air through a filter and up into the top
of the cowl. I have only had warm start issues with this plugged. When it'
s is use with the ram air attached to the carbs, there are no warm start-up
issues=C2-probably because the carbs are keep cooler with the outside ai
r flowing through them. In the winter I typically take it off and plug the
scoop to avoid the possibility of carb ice. For some reason this summer, I
never got around to putting the ram air on or removing the plug and the pro
blem occurred.
=C2-
I have a temperature probe in the air box and one in the top of the cowl. O
n any typical day, the air temperature in the top of the cowling while flyi
ng is 50 F degrees warmer than the air in the air box that feeds the carbs.
On a summer day at 6000 feet, it's normal to see 150 F temperature in cowl
ing next to the carbs but only 100 degrees in the airbox. I'm sure that goe
s way up when the plane is stopped with a hot engine.
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Keith Palmer" <kdpalmer@mweb.co.za>
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 10:12:44 PM
Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
=EF=BB
Barry,
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- What you must also concider is e
xtraction and because the intake is relatively large (on a Pulsar I would s
ay over sized)=C2-and ram fed,=C2-=C2-high pressure=C2-- the extrac
tion should be at least three and a half times larger being low pressure (b
asic principal) if you don't keep to this ratio you build up a high pressur
e under the cowl (some people have reported bulging upper cowls)=C2-which
restricts the flow.
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-Look at the La Presti cowls
very small inlets - good size extraction (=C2-see a RV12)=C2-they don'
t seem to have a problem.=C2-
=C2-
Food for thought
=C2-
Keith
=C2-
=C2-
=C2-
=C2-
=C2-
=C2-
----- Original Message -----
From: barrynorman@comcast.net
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:48 PM
Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
Thanks for all the helpful tips. When I referred to the manuals, I was spea
king of the Skystar building manuals.=C2-I'm going to redo the fuel syste
m to include a fuel return and remounting the fuel pump and a fuel pump byp
ass with check valve. It's=C2-looks like I need more cool air under the c
owling on hot days and I think I have a solution for that. While doing some
research on it today, I found someone else who had the exact same issues i
n a=C2-Rotax 912s powered=C2-=C2-Dyn Aero MCR01. He had=C2-a fuel r
eturn and had the exact same symptoms as mine. Both planes have very tight
cowlings. His problem turned out to be overheating of the electronic igniti
on on warm days. Here is the URL http://www.pprune.org/archive/index.php/t-
271030.html .
=C2-
I have an air scoop on the side of my cowling that I use for a ram air setu
p during the warm months.=C2-During the winter I take the ram air off and
plug the scoop with a tennis ball.=C2-If I remove the ball, it will let
a lot more cool air=C2-into the top of the cowling when not using the ram
air. When this problem occurred=C2-this summer I had it plugged without
the ram system making very warm in the cowling.
=C2-
Thanks to all,
Barry=C2-=C2-
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Koval" <ronko@att.net>
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 3:12:54 PM
Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
Barry,
=C2-
Fixing a different fuel and engine run problem, I experienced what you refe
r to as fuel boil with my 582.=C2- The side of the engine compartment wit
h a gascolator, the carburetors and their fuel lines would get so hot on ho
t days that when I stopped the engine, I could hear the gurgle of the fuel
at a boil.=C2- If I quickly jumped out, opened the cowling, I could see a
bubble (vacuum) bounce in the fuel line(s).=C2- It also seems line the h
ottest thing of my engine, the muffler, sits right below the plumbing of th
e auxiliary fuel pump, gascolator and a major portion of the fuel line rout
e, so when the engine is off, the convection of heat naturally wants to ris
e, but gets=C2-held in place by the cowling.=C2-
=C2-
I solved my problem by improving the the source of cool air.=C2- All of t
he air feeding the carburetors, and cooling the fuel distribution would go
through the radiator at the left cowling air inlet.=C2- It was sealed wel
l at top and bottom by its fiberglass mounts and then on the left and right
with heavy flexible, carefully cut to fit baffling material that was glued
to the radiator sides (solved over-heating during taxiing on hot days).=C2
- I removed one side of the baffling material to allow cool fresh air to
this boiling fuel problem side.=C2- I don't have a boiling fuel problem a
nymore and fortunately can still taxi on 90+ degree days without ever over
heating.
=C2-
I hope this is of help.=C2- Try to get more cool air to the boiling fuel
areas.
=C2-
Ronko
From: "barrynorman@comcast.net" <barrynorman@comcast.net>
Sent: Wed, September 12, 2012 9:19:14 AM
Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
I had an event this summer that was similiar but I don't think it had anyth
ing to do with the fuel pump. It was a fairly warm day and I had taken my s
on up for a ride in the Pulsar III and returned after a 30 minute flight wh
ere everything was perfectly normal. I shut the plane down for a few minute
s while we loaded another passenger and had a very difficult time restartin
g the plane. This was not anything new in this situation as I think the fue
l starts to boil in the bowls making it difficult to start and get fresh fu
el in due to the pressure in the bowls. I finally got it started and it ran
rough for a few minutes but cleared up. I taxied to the runway and as I fe
d in power for takeoff, the RPM dropped and the engine quit. The plane refu
sed to restart so I brought it back to the hanger. I came back the next day
and the plane started right up and ran fine. This is a pattern I've notice
d=C2-on my plane that appears to be vapor lock on warm days. Once those c
arb bowls get heat soaked from sitting, the problem shows up.
=C2-
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Heiser" <w7ikt@fly-web.us>
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:27:00 AM
Subject: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
Bob,
This has some similarities to my accident.=C2- I believe the electric fue
l pump blocked fuel flow in my plane.=C2- When the fuel pump was removed
I could not blow thru it in either direction, should have been able to in t
he direction of flow.=C2- After shipping the fuel pump to the NTSB it ope
rated normally.=C2- Do you have a bypass and check valve around the elect
ric fuel pump?
God Bless
Bob Heiser W7IKT On 9/10/2012 6:23 PM, Bob Hartunian wrote:
<blockquote>
=C2-
Flew out locally for bkfst on Sunday, past mountains to flatlands and lande
d and all was fine. Got back into plane 45 min later and started up fine. D
id normal runup and had 5 gal in left tank, full right tank, running off le
ft, all was fine.
Took off normally and did another normal left crosswind turn toward home an
d mountains. All indications normal including fuel pressure. Climbing at 50
0 fpm, 100 mph, engine around 5100 rpm, when suddenly engine rpm drops to a
lmost idle. No shaking or vibes. Immediately kicked on electric fuel pump b
ut saw no indications for low fuel pressure, and engine came back normally.
I don=99t think the fuel pump really did anything as engine just reg
ained rpm and flew perfectly all the way home for another 20 min. out over
desert just in case.
I pulled cowl and checked things visually but no obvious problems. Don
=99t have a good explanation for why rpm dropped.
Bob H
__,_._,___
arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List p://forums.ma
tronics.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Puls==================
===== = --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List ; ht
tp://forums.matronics.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution href
="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List">http://www.matronhref
="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http:/
/www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
</blockquote>
==
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Pulsar-List Digest: 17 Msgs - 09/12/12 |
Haveflown plane since hiccup and it runs fine. I concluded that problem was
momentary vaporlock. Had I kept boost pump on during takeoff, it would have
provided coldfuel to system and eliminated the vaporlock. Will do that
routinely now.
Bob H
> From: Pulsar-List Digest Server <pulsar-list@matronics.com>
> Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 23:58:23 -0700
> To: Pulsar-List Digest List <pulsar-list-digest@matronics.com>
> Subject: Pulsar-List Digest: 17 Msgs - 09/12/12
>
> *
>
> ================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> =================================================
>
> Today's complete Pulsar-Lit Digest can also be found in either of the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file inclues the Digest formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indxes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt fil includes the plain ASCII version
> of the Pulsar-List Digestand can be viewed with a generic text editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter=2
> 012-09-12&Archive=Pulsar
>
> Text Version:
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter
> 12-09-12&Archive=Pulsar
>
>
> ===============================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ===============================================
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Pulsar-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Wed 09/12/12: 17
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 06:27 AM - Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup (Bob Heiser)
> 2. 07:18 AM - Re: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
> (barrynorman@comcast.net)
> 3. 08:04 AM - Re: Re: [Pulsr-Aviators] 912 Hiccup (Bernard Wilder)
> 4. 09:00 AM - Re: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
> (barrnorman@comcast.net)
> 5. 09:19 AM - Nose gea needed (Bigfootf2013)
> 6. 09:36 AM - Re: Re: [Pular-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
> (barrynorman@comcast.net)
> 7. 09:36 AM - Re: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup (Barry J Edwards)
> 8. 10:02 AM - Re: Re: [PulsarAviators] 912 Hiccup
> (barrynorman@comcast.net)
> 9. 10:18 AM - Re: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup (Barry J Edwards)
> 10. 10:34 AM - Re: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
> (barrynorman@comcast.net)
> 11. 10:46 AM - Re: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup (Dennis Adams)
> 12. 10:52 AM - Re: Re: [Pulsar-Avitors] 912 Hiccup (Cd)
> 13. 11:29 AM - Re: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup (Bernard Wilder)
> 14. 12:14 PM - Re: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup (Ron Koval)
> 15. 12:49 PM - Re: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
> (barrynorman@comcast.net)
> 16. 01:16 PM- Re: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup (HUGH COULTER)
> 17. 07:13 PM - Re: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup (Keith Palmer)
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 06:27:48 AM PST US
> From: Bob Heiser <w7ikt@fly-web.us>
> Subject: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>
> Bob,
> This has some similarities to my accident. I believe the electric fuel
> pump blocked fuel flow in my plane. When the fuel pump was removed I
> could not blow thru it in ither direction, shouldhave been able to in
> the direction of flow. After shipping the fuel pump to the NTSB it
> operated normally. Do you have bypass and check valve around the
> electric fuel pump?
> *God Bless
> Bob Heiser W7IKT*
> On 9/10/2012 6:23 PM, Bob Hartunian wrote:
>>
>> Flew out locally for bkfst on Sunday, past mountains to flatlands and
>> landed and all was fine. Got back into plane 45 min later and started
>> ufine. Did normal runup and had 5 gal in left tank, full right tank,
>> running off left, all was fine.
>> Took off normally and did another normal left crosswind turn toward
>> home and mountains. All indications normal including fuel pressure.
>> Climbing at 500 fpm, 100 mph, engine around 5100 rpm, when suddenly
>> engine rpm rops to almost idle. No shaking or vibes. Immediately
>> icked on electric fuel pump but saw no indications for low uel
>> pressure, and engine came back normally. I don't hink the fuel pump
>> really did anything as engine just reained rpm and flew perfectly all
>> the way home for anoher 20 min. out over desert just in case.
>> I pulled cowl and checked things visually but no obvious problems.
>> Don't have a good explanation for why rpm dropped.
>> Bob H
>>
>>
>> __,_.____
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2
> ____________________________________
> >
> Time: 07:18:35 AM PST US
> From: barrynorman@comcast.et
> Subject: Re: Pular-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>
>
> I had an event this summer that was similiar bt I don't think it had anyth
> ing to do with the fuel pump. It was a fairy warm day and I had taken my s
> on up for a ride in the Pulsar III and retured after a 30 minute flight wh
> ere everything was perfectly normal. I shut he plane down for a few minute
> s while we loaded another passenger and had very difficult time restartin
> g the plane. This was not anything new i this situation as I think the fue
> l starts to boil in the bowls making it dificult to start and get fresh fu
> el in due to the pressure in the bowls. I finaly got it started and it ran
> rough for a few minutes but cleared up.I taxied to the runway and as I fe
> d in power for takeoff, the RPM dropped and the engine quit. The plane ref
> used to restart so I brought it back to the hanger. I came back the next da
> y and the plane stted right up and ran fine. This is a pattern I've notic
> ed=C2-on my plane that appears to be vapor lock on warm days. Once those
> carb bowls get heat soaked from sitting, the problem shows up.
>
>
> Barry
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
>
> From: "Bo Heiser" <w7ikt@fly-web.us>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:27:0AM
> Subject: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>
>
> Bob,
>This has some similarities to my accident.=C2- I believe the electric fu
> l pump blocked fuel flow in my plane.=C2- When the fuel pump was reoved
> I could not blow thru it in either direction, shoul have been able to in t
> he direction of flow.=C2- After shipping te fuel pump to the NTSB it ope
> rated normally.=C2- Do you ha a bypass and check valve around the elect
> ric fuel pump?
>
> God Blss
> Bob Heiser W7IKT On 9/10/201 6:23 PM, Bob Hartunian wrote:
>
> =C2-
>
>
> Flew out locally for bkfst on Sunday, past mountains to flatlands and lande
> d and all was fine. Got back into plane 45 min later and started up fine. D
> id normal runup an had 5 gal in left tank, full right tank, running off le
> ft, all was ine.
> Took off normally and did another normal left crosswind turn towardhome an
> d mountains. All indications normal including fuel pressure. Climing at 50
> 0 fpm, 100 mph, engine around 5100 rpm, when suddenly enginerpm drops to a
> lmost idle. No shaking or vibes. Immediately kicked on elctric fuel pump b
> ut saw no indications for low fuel pressure, and ngine came back normally.
> I don=99t think the fuel pump really did anthing as engine just reg
> ained rpm and flew perfectly all the wa home for another 20 min. out over
> desert just in ase.
> I pulled cowl and checked things visually but no obvious problems. Don
> =99t have a good explanation for why rpm dropped.
> Bob H >
>
> __,_._,___
>
>
> =
>
> ________________________________ Mesage 3
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 08:04:18 AM PSTUS
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
> From: Brnard Wilder <bernard.wilder2@gmail.com>
>
> Bob,
>
> You may remember tht my initial theory was that the problem was with the
> electric fuel pump.
>
> Barry,
>
> Is your electric fuel pump mounted on a 45 degree angle ? ? ? Mine
> specified that it should be,
>
> Do you have a jetted fuel line going from the fuel line between the engine
> fuel pump and the carbs back to your fuel cells ? ? ? Rotax standard
> instalation instructions specify that there be one.
>
> Even with this bleed back path for hot fuel, and vapor forme in the fuel
> line when the fuel cooks off and turning on the electric fel pump,, on a
> hot day when I forget to open the hatch on the top of my cwl it is common
> for the engine to falter four to five minutes after re-tart. On such days
> I turn on my electric fuel pump run my engine lon enough to be past the
> time that the engine will run on the fuel left oer in the carb bowls.
>
> Bernie Wilder
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at :27 AM, Bob Heiser <w7ikt@fly-web.us> wrote:
>
>> Bob,
>> This has somesimilarities to my accident. I believe the electric fuel
>> pump blockedfuel flow in my plane. When the fuel pump was removed I cou
> ld
> not blow thru it in either direction, should have been able to in the
>> drection of flow. After shipping the fuel pump to the NTSB it operated
>> nrmally. Do you have a bypass and check valve around the electric fuel
> pump?
>> *God Bless
>> Bob Heiser W7IKT*
>> On 9/10/2012 6:23 PM, Bob Hartnian wrote:
>>
>>
>> Flew out locally for bkfst on Sunday, past mountais to flatlands and
>> landed and all was fine. Got back into plane 45 minlater and started up
>> fine. Did normal runup and had 5 gal in left tan, full right tank, runni
> ng
>> off left, all was fine.
>> Took off nomally and did another normal left crosswind turn toward home
>> and mountins. All indications normal including fuel pressure. Climbing a
> t
>> 500 fpm, 100 mph, engine around 510 rpm, when suddenly engine rpm drops
> to
>> almost idle. No shaking or vibes. Immediately kicked on electric fuel pum
> p
>> but saw no indications for low fuel pressure, and engine came back
>> normally. I don=92t think the fuel pump really did anything as engine jus
> t
>> regained rpm and flew perfectly all the way home for another 20 min. out
>> over desert just in case.
>> I pulled cowl nd checked things visually but no obvious problems. Don=92
> t
>> have agood explanation for why rpm dropped.
>> Bob H
>>
>> __,_._,___
>>
>>
>> *
>>
> ==========
> ==========
> ==========
> ==========
>> *
>
>>
>
> ________________________________ Message 4
> ____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 09:00:56 AM PST US
> From: barrynorman@omcast.net
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccu
>
>
> My manuals never mentioned mounting the fuel pump at 45 degres or routing
> fuel back to the tank via a return line. As a matter of fat, there were no
> provisions in the end plates for a fuel return or a elector switch for fe
> eding=C2-back to the appropriate tank. There wasnt any information on a
> bypass for the electric pump either. =C2-
>
> > Barry.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
>
> From: "Bernard ilder" <bernard.wilder2@gmail.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 1:02:26 AM
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviaors] 912 Hiccup
>
>
> Bob,
> =C2-
> You may remember that my initial theory was that the problem was with the e
> lectric fuel pump.
> =C2-
> Barry,
> =C2-
> Is your electric fuel pump mounted on a 45 degree angle ? ? ?=C2- Mine sp
> ecified that it should be,
> =C2-
> Do you have a jetted fuel line going from the fuel line between the engine
> fuel pump and the carbs back o your fuel cells ? ? ? Rotax standard instal
> ation instructions specify hat there be one.
> =C2-
> =C2-Even with this bleed back path for hot ful, and vapor formed in the
> fuel line when the fuel cooks off and turnin on the electric fuel pump,,
> =C2-on a hot day when I forget to open he hatch on the top of my cowl it
> is common for the engine to falter four to five minutes after re-start. On
> such days I turn on my electric fuel pump run my engine long enough to be
> ast the time that the engine will run on the fuel left over in the crb bo
> wls.
> =C2-
> Bernie Wilder
> =C2-
> =C2-
> =C2-
>
>
> =C2-
> On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 9:27 AM, Bob Heiser < w7ikt@fly-web.us > wrote:
>
>
> Bob,
> This has some similarites to my accident.=C2- I believe the electric fue
> l pump blocked fue flow in my plane.=C2- When the fuel pump was removed
> I could not blw thru it in either direction, should have been able to in t
> he directionof flow.=C2- After shipping the fuel pump to the NTSB it ope
> rated normaly.=C2- Do you have a bypass and check valve around the elect
> ri fuel pump?
>
> God Bless
> Bob Heiser W7IKT On 9/10/2012 6:23 PM, Bob artunian wrote:
>
> <blockquote>
> =C2-
>
>
> Flew out locally for bkfst on Sunday, past mountains to flatlands and lande
> d nd all was fine. Got back into plane 45 min later and started up fine. D
> id normal runup and had 5 gal in left tank, full right tank, running off le
> ft, all ws fine.
> Took off normally and did another normal left crosswind turn rd home an
> d mountains. All indications normal including fuel pressure. Climbing at 50
> 0 fpm, 100 mph, engine around 5100 rpm, when suddenly engine rpm drops to a
> lmost idle. No shaking or vibes. Immediately kicked on electric fuel pump b
> ut saw no indications for low fuel pressure, and engine came back normally.
> I don=99t think the fuel pump really did anything as engine just reg
> ained rpm and flew perfectly all the way home for another 20 min. out over
> desert just in case.
> I pulled cowl and checked things visually but no obvious problems. Don
> =99t have a good explanation for why rpm dropped.
> Bob H
>
>
> __,_._,___
>
>
> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List ttp://forum
> s.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> </blockquote>
>
> =
>
> ________________________________ Message 5
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 09:19:24 AM PST US
> Subject: Pulsar-List: Nose gear needed
> From: "Bigfootf2013" <Bigfootf2013@gmail.com>
>
>
> Hi Everyone I'm glad I found the group. I am in need of a nose wheel assembly.
> The nose leg and castoring fork.
>
> Thanks!
>
> --------
> BFlowers
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382935#382935
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 6
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 09:36:21 AM PST US
> From: barrynorman@comcast.net
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>
> I found a detailed installation guide on the Internet on the facet pump and
> they do recommend mounting the pump at a 45 degree angle to allow buildup
> of vapors to pass through the pump easily. Unfortunately the location of th
> e pump doesn't allow for it and I don't think=C2-a buildup of vapors exis
> ts near the pump because it doesn't get hot there inside the cabin. In fact
> , when I'm having a hard start problem after it's heat soaked,=C2-the onl
> y way I can get=C2-it started is when=C2-I turn on the electric pump, s
> o I know it's functioning properly.=C2-What works for me is to take the u
> pper engine cowl off during short stops for refueling or whatever and that
> stops the heat soaking and vapor lock problems.=C2-=C2-
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: barrynorman@comcast.net
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 12:00:27 PM
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>
>
> My manuals never mentioned mounting the fuel pump at 45 degrees or routing
> fuel back to the tank via a return line. As a matter of fact, there were no
> provisions in the end plates for a fuel return or a selector switch for fe
> eding=C2-back to the appropriate tank. There wasn't any information on a
> bypass for the electric pump either.=C2-
>
> =C2-
>
> Barry.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
>
> From: "Bernard Wilder" <bernard.wilder2@gmail.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 11:02:26 AM
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>
>
> Bob,
> =C2-
> You may remember that my initial theory was that the problem was with the e
> lectric fuel pump.
> =C2-
> Barry,
> =C2-
> Is your electric fuel pump mounted on a 45 degree angle ? ? ?=C2- Mine sp
> ecified that it should be,
> =C2-
> Do you have a jetted fuel line going from the fuel line between the engine
> fuel pump and the carbs back to your fuel cells ? ? ? Rotax standard instal
> ation instructions specify that there be one.
> =C2-
> =C2-Even with this bleed back path for hot fuel, and vapor formed in the
> fuel line when the fuel cooks off and turning on the electric fuel pump,,
> =C2-on a hot day when I forget to open the hatch on the top of my cowl it
> is common for the engine to falter four to five minutes after re-start. On
> such days I turn on my electric fuel pump run my engine long enough to be
> past the time that the engine will run on the fuel left over in the carb bo
> wls.
> =C2-
> Bernie Wilder
> =C2-
> =C2-
> =C2-
>
>
> =C2-
> On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 9:27 AM, Bob Heiser < w7ikt@fly-web.us > wrote:
>
>
> Bob,
> This has some similarities to my accident.=C2- I believe the electric fue
> l pump blocked fuel flow in my plane.=C2- When the fuel pump was removed
> I could not blow thru it in either direction, should have been able to in t
> he direction of flow.=C2- After shipping the fuel pump to the NTSB it ope
> rated normally.=C2- Do you have a bypass and check valve around the elect
> ric fuel pump?
>
> God Bless
> Bob Heiser W7IKT On 9/10/2012 6:23 PM, Bob Hartunian wrote:
>
> <blockquote>
> =C2-
>
>
> Flew out locally for bkfst on Sunday, past mountains to flatlands and lande
> d and all was fine. Got back into plane 45 min later and started up fine. D
> id normal runup and had 5 gal in left tank, full right tank, running off le
> ft, all was fine.
> Took off normally and did another normal left crosswind turn toward home an
> d mountains. All indications normal including fuel pressure. Climbing at 50
> 0 fpm, 100 mph, engine around 5100 rpm, when suddenly engine rpm drops to a
> lmost idle. No shaking or vibes. Immediately kicked on electric fuel pump b
> ut saw no indications for low fuel pressure, and engine came back normally.
> I don=99t think the fuel pump really did anything as engine just reg
> ained rpm and flew perfectly all the way home for another 20 min. out over
> desert just in case.
> I pulled cowl and checked things visually but no obvious problems. Don
> =99t have a good explanation for why rpm dropped.
> Bob H
>
>
> __,_._,___
>
>
> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List ttp://forum
> s.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> </blockquote>
>
> arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List p://forums.ma
> ===================
>
> ________________________________ Message 7
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 09:36:21 AM PST US
> From: "Barry J Edwards" <barryjedwards@lineone.net>
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>
> The instructions about mounting my Facet pump were on the original Facet
> pack which I still have some 21 years later. It clearly says that it
> must be mounted at 45 degrees. Back in those days when we were running
> on leaded fuel there was less of an issue with vapour lock as the VP of
> that fuel was higher. When unleaded fuel became the norm, a fuel return
> line was mandated in the UK to avoid the possibility of vapour locking.
> I think Rotax also mandated it. I had to put a new return line into my
> right tank to facilitate this.
>
> Barry
> 912 Taildragger UK 1030 hours
>
> From: barrynorman@comcast.net
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 5:00 PM
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>
> My manuals never mentioned mounting the fuel pump at 45 degrees or
> routing fuel back to the tank via a return line. As a matter of fact,
> there were no provisions in the end plates for a fuel return or a
> selector switch for feeding back to the appropriate tank. There wasn't
> any information on a bypass for the electric pump either.
>
>
> Barry.
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
>
> From: "Bernard Wilder" <bernard.wilder2@gmail.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 11:02:26 AM
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>
>
> Bob,
>
> You may remember that my initial theory was that the problem was with
> the electric fuel pump.
>
> Barry,
>
> Is your electric fuel pump mounted on a 45 degree angle ? ? ? Mine
> specified that it should be,
>
> Do you have a jetted fuel line going from the fuel line between the
> engine fuel pump and the carbs back to your fuel cells ? ? ? Rotax
> standard instalation instructions specify that there be one.
>
> Even with this bleed back path for hot fuel, and vapor formed in the
> fuel line when the fuel cooks off and turning on the electric fuel
> pump,, on a hot day when I forget to open the hatch on the top of my
> cowl it is common for the engine to falter four to five minutes after
> re-start. On such days I turn on my electric fuel pump run my engine
> long enough to be past the time that the engine will run on the fuel
> left over in the carb bowls.
>
> Bernie Wilder
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 9:27 AM, Bob Heiser <w7ikt@fly-web.us> wrote:
>
> Bob,
> This has some similarities to my accident. I believe the electric
> fuel pump blocked fuel flow in my plane. When the fuel pump was removed
> I could not blow thru it in either direction, should have been able to
> in the direction of flow. After shipping the fuel pump to the NTSB it
> operated normally. Do you have a bypass and check valve around the
> electric fuel pump?
>
> God Bless
> Bob Heiser W7IKT
> On 9/10/2012 6:23 PM, Bob Hartunian wrote:
>
>
> Flew out locally for bkfst on Sunday, past mountains to flatlands
> and landed and all was fine. Got back into plane 45 min later and
> started up fine. Did normal runup and had 5 gal in left tank, full right
> tank, running off left, all was fine.
> Took off normally and did another normal left crosswind turn toward
> home and mountains. All indications normal including fuel pressure.
> Climbing at 500 fpm, 100 mph, engine around 5100 rpm, when suddenly
> engine rpm drops to almost idle. No shaking or vibes. Immediately kicked
> on electric fuel pump but saw no indications for low fuel pressure, and
> engine came back normally. I don=99t think the fuel pump really
> did anything as engine just regained rpm and flew perfectly all the way
> home for another 20 min. out over desert just in case.
> I pulled cowl and checked things visually but no obvious problems.
> Don=99t have a good explanation for why rpm dropped.
> Bob H
>
>
> __,_._,___
>
>
> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List
> ttp://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
> arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List
> p://forums.matronics.com
> blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 8
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 10:02:21 AM PST US
> From: barrynorman@comcast.net
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>
>
> It sounds like I should go ahead and put in a return line. What did most pe
> ople do for a return line? I was thinking about using a low pressure poppe
> t valve (maybe 2-3 pounds) with a small fuel injection pill to restrict flo
> w, installed in the fuel line before the split to t he carbs and route it b
> ack to a tank. My concern is pumping to much fuel back to one tank. With po
> ppet valve and pill, the fuel would only flow when pressure exceeded the pr
> essure point of the poppet valve and then be restricted by the pill.
>
>
> Barry
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
>
> From: "Barry J Edwards" <barryjedwards@lineone.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 12:35:34 PM
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>
>
> The instructions about mounting my Facet pump were on the original Facet pa
> ck which I still have some 21 years later. It clearly says that it must be
> mounted at 45 degrees. Back in those days when we were running on leaded fu
> el there was less of an issue with vapour lock as the VP of that fuel was h
> igher. When unleaded fuel became the norm, a fuel return line was mandated
> in the UK to avoid the possibility of vapour locking. I think Rotax also ma
> ndated it. I had to put a new return line into my right tank to facilitate
> this.
> =C2-
> Barry
> 912 Taildragger UK 1030 hours=C2-
>
>
> =C2-
>
> From: barrynorman@comcast.net
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 5:00 PM
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
> =C2-
>
>
> My manuals never mentioned mounting the fuel pump at 45 degrees or routing
> fuel back to the tank via a return line. As a matter of fact, there were no
> provisions in the end plates for a fuel return or a selector switch for fe
> eding back to the appropriate tank. There wasn't any information on a bypas
> s for the electric pump either.
>
> =C2-
>
> Barry.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
>
> From: "Bernard Wilder" <bernard.wilder2@gmail.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 11:02:26 AM
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>
>
> Bob,
> =C2-
> You may remember that my initial theory was that the problem was with the e
> lectric fuel pump.
> =C2-
> Barry,
> =C2-
> Is your electric fuel pump mounted on a 45 degree angle ? ? ?=C2- Mine sp
> ecified that it should be,
> =C2-
> Do you have a jetted fuel line going from the fuel line between the engine
> fuel pump and the carbs back to your fuel cells ? ? ? Rotax standard instal
> ation instructions specify that there be one.
> =C2-
> Even with this bleed back path for hot fuel, and vapor formed in the fuel l
> ine when the fuel cooks off and turning on the electric fuel pump,, on a ho
> t day when I forget to open the hatch on the top of my cowl it is common fo
> r the engine to falter four to five minutes after re-start. On such days I
> turn on my electric fuel pump run my engine long enough to be past the time
> that the engine will run on the fuel left over in the carb bowls.
> =C2-
> Bernie Wilder
> =C2-
> =C2-
> =C2-
>
>
> =C2-
> On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 9:27 AM, Bob Heiser < w7ikt@fly-web.us > wrote:
>
>
> Bob,
> This has some similarities to my accident.=C2- I believe the electric fue
> l pump blocked fuel flow in my plane.=C2- When the fuel pump was removed
> I could not blow thru it in either direction, should have been able to in t
> he direction of flow.=C2- After shipping the fuel pump to the NTSB it ope
> rated normally.=C2- Do you have a bypass and check valve around the elect
> ric fuel pump?
>
> God Bless
> Bob Heiser W7IKT On 9/10/2012 6:23 PM, Bob Hartunian wrote:
>
> <blockquote>
> =C2-
>
>
> Flew out locally for bkfst on Sunday, past mountains to flatlands and lande
> d and all was fine. Got back into plane 45 min later and started up fine. D
> id normal runup and had 5 gal in left tank, full right tank, running off le
> ft, all was fine.
> Took off normally and did another normal left crosswind turn toward home an
> d mountains. All indications normal including fuel pressure. Climbing at 50
> 0 fpm, 100 mph, engine around 5100 rpm, when suddenly engine rpm drops to a
> lmost idle. No shaking or vibes. Immediately kicked on electric fuel pump b
> ut saw no indications for low fuel pressure, and engine came back normally.
> I don=99t think the fuel pump really did anything as engine just reg
> ained rpm and flew perfectly all the way home for another 20 min. out over
> desert just in case.
> I pulled cowl and checked things visually but no obvious problems. Don
> =99t have a good explanation for why rpm dropped.
> Bob H
>
> =C2-
> __,_._,___
>
>
> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List ttp://forum
> s.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> </blockquote>
>
> arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List p://forums.ma
> tronics.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.
> matronics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums
> .matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.co
> =======================
> =
>
> ________________________________ Message 9
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 10:18:41 AM PST US
> From: "Barry J Edwards" <barryjedwards@lineone.net>
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>
> We use a simple Tee piece in the line after the fuel pump with a fine
> jet in the discharge line back to the tank. the hole size is 0.35mm:
> http://www.ekmpowershop2.com/ekmps/shops/conairsports/fuel-return-restric
> tor-fsc-039-1743-p.asp
>
> Simple and works well sending the minimum amount of fuel back to the
> tank.
>
> Barry
> G-XPXP
>
> From: barrynorman@comcast.net
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 5:56 PM
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>
> It sounds like I should go ahead and put in a return line. What did most
> people do for a return line? I was thinking about using a low pressure
> poppet valve (maybe 2-3 pounds) with a small fuel injection pill to
> restrict flow, installed in the fuel line before the split to the carbs
> and route it back to a tank. My concern is pumping to much fuel back to
> one tank. With poppet valve and pill, the fuel would only flow when
> pressure exceeded the pressure point of the poppet valve and then be
> restricted by the pill.
>
>
> Barry
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
>
> From: "Barry J Edwards" <barryjedwards@lineone.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 12:35:34 PM
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>
>
> The instructions about mounting my Facet pump were on the original Facet
> pack which I still have some 21 years later. It clearly says that it
> must be mounted at 45 degrees. Back in those days when we were running
> on leaded fuel there was less of an issue with vapour lock as the VP of
> that fuel was higher. When unleaded fuel became the norm, a fuel return
> line was mandated in the UK to avoid the possibility of vapour locking.
> I think Rotax also mandated it. I had to put a new return line into my
> right tank to facilitate this.
>
> Barry
> 912 Taildragger UK 1030 hours
>
> From: barrynorman@comcast.net
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 5:00 PM
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>
> My manuals never mentioned mounting the fuel pump at 45 degrees or
> routing fuel back to the tank via a return line. As a matter of fact,
> there were no provisions in the end plates for a fuel return or a
> selector switch for feeding back to the appropriate tank. There wasn't
> any information on a bypass for the electric pump either.
>
>
> Barry.
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
>
> From: "Bernard Wilder" <bernard.wilder2@gmail.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 11:02:26 AM
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>
>
> Bob,
>
> You may remember that my initial theory was that the problem was with
> the electric fuel pump.
>
> Barry,
>
> Is your electric fuel pump mounted on a 45 degree angle ? ? ? Mine
> specified that it should be,
>
> Do you have a jetted fuel line going from the fuel line between the
> engine fuel pump and the carbs back to your fuel cells ? ? ? Rotax
> standard instalation instructions specify that there be one.
>
> Even with this bleed back path for hot fuel, and vapor formed in the
> fuel line when the fuel cooks off and turning on the electric fuel
> pump,, on a hot day when I forget to open the hatch on the top of my
> cowl it is common for the engine to falter four to five minutes after
> re-start. On such days I turn on my electric fuel pump run my engine
> long enough to be past the time that the engine will run on the fuel
> left over in the carb bowls.
>
> Bernie Wilder
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 9:27 AM, Bob Heiser <w7ikt@fly-web.us> wrote:
>
> Bob,
> This has some similarities to my accident. I believe the electric
> fuel pump blocked fuel flow in my plane. When the fuel pump was removed
> I could not blow thru it in either direction, should have been able to
> in the direction of flow. After shipping the fuel pump to the NTSB it
> operated normally. Do you have a bypass and check valve around the
> electric fuel pump?
>
> God Bless
> Bob Heiser W7IKT
> On 9/10/2012 6:23 PM, Bob Hartunian wrote:
>
>
> Flew out locally for bkfst on Sunday, past mountains to flatlands
> and landed and all was fine. Got back into plane 45 min later and
> started up fine. Did normal runup and had 5 gal in left tank, full right
> tank, running off left, all was fine.
> Took off normally and did another normal left crosswind turn toward
> home and mountains. All indications normal including fuel pressure.
> Climbing at 500 fpm, 100 mph, engine around 5100 rpm, when suddenly
> engine rpm drops to almost idle. No shaking or vibes. Immediately kicked
> on electric fuel pump but saw no indications for low fuel pressure, and
> engine came back normally. I don=99t think the fuel pump really
> did anything as engine just regained rpm and flew perfectly all the way
> home for another 20 min. out over desert just in case.
> I pulled cowl and checked things visually but no obvious problems.
> Don=99t have a good explanation for why rpm dropped.
> Bob H
>
>
> __,_._,___
>
>
> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List
> ttp://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
> arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List
> p://forums.matronics.com
> blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List">http://www.matron
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>
>
> arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List
> p://forums.matronics.com
> blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 10
> ____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 10:34:51 AM PST US
> From: barrynorman@comcast.net
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>
> Thanks Barry!
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Barry J Edwards" <barryjedwards@lineone.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 1:17:26 PM
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>
>
> We use a simple Tee piece in the line after the fuel pump with a fine jet i
> n the discharge line back to the tank. the hole size is 0.35mm:
> http://www.ekmpowershop2.com/ekmps/shops/conairsports/fuel-return-restricto
> r-fsc-039-1743-p.asp
>
>
> =C2-
> Simple and works well sending the minimum amount of fuel back to the tank.
>
> =C2-
> Barry
> G-XPXP
> =C2-
>
> From: barrynorman@comcast.net
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 5:56 PM
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
> =C2-
>
>
> It sounds like I should go ahead and put in a return line. What did most pe
> ople do for a return line? I was thinking about using a low pressure poppet
> valve (maybe 2-3 pounds) with a small fuel injection pill to restrict flow
> , installed in the fuel line before the split to the carbs and route it bac
> k to a tank. My concern is pumping to much fuel back to one tank. With popp
> et valve and pill, the fuel would only flow when pressure exceeded the pres
> sure point of the poppet valve and then be restricted by the pill.
>
>
> Barry
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
>
> From: "Barry J Edwards" <barryjedwards@lineone.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 12:35:34 PM
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>
>
> The instructions about mounting my Facet pump were on the original Facet pa
> ck which I still have some 21 years later. It clearly says that it must be
> mounted at 45 degrees. Back in those days when we were running on leaded fu
> el there was less of an issue with vapour lock as the VP of that fuel was h
> igher. When unleaded fuel became the norm, a fuel return line was mandated
> in the UK to avoid the possibility of vapour locking. I think Rotax also ma
> ndated it. I had to put a new return line into my right tank to facilitate
> this.
> =C2-
> Barry
> 912 Taildragger UK 1030 hours=C2-
>
>
> =C2-
>
> From: barrynorman@comcast.net
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 5:00 PM
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
> =C2-
>
>
> My manuals never mentioned mounting the fuel pump at 45 degrees or routing
> fuel back to the tank via a return line. As a matter of fact, there were no
> provisions in the end plates for a fuel return or a selector switch for fe
> eding back to the appropriate tank. There wasn't any information on a bypas
> s for the electric pump either.
>
> =C2-
>
> Barry.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
>
> From: "Bernard Wilder" <bernard.wilder2@gmail.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 11:02:26 AM
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>
>
> Bob,
> =C2-
> You may remember that my initial theory was that the problem was with the e
> lectric fuel pump.
> =C2-
> Barry,
> =C2-
> Is your electric fuel pump mounted on a 45 degree angle ? ? ?=C2- Mine sp
> ecified that it should be,
> =C2-
> Do you have a jetted fuel line going from the fuel line between the engine
> fuel pump and the carbs back to your fuel cells ? ? ? Rotax standard instal
> ation instructions specify that there be one.
> =C2-
> Even with this bleed back path for hot fuel, and vapor formed in the fuel l
> ine when the fuel cooks off and turning on the electric fuel pump,, on a ho
> t day when I forget to open the hatch on the top of my cowl it is common fo
> r the engine to falter four to five minutes after re-start. On such days I
> turn on my electric fuel pump run my engine long enough to be past the time
> that the engine will run on the fuel left over in the carb bowls.
> =C2-
> Bernie Wilder
> =C2-
> =C2-
> =C2-
>
>
> =C2-
> On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 9:27 AM, Bob Heiser < w7ikt@fly-web.us > wrote:
>
>
> Bob,
> This has some similarities to my accident.=C2- I believe the electric fue
> l pump blocked fuel flow in my plane.=C2- When the fuel pump was removed
> I could not blow thru it in either direction, should have been able to in t
> he direction of flow.=C2- After shipping the fuel pump to the NTSB it ope
> rated normally.=C2- Do you have a bypass and check valve around the elect
> ric fuel pump?
>
> God Bless
> Bob Heiser W7IKT On 9/10/2012 6:23 PM, Bob Hartunian wrote:
>
> <blockquote>
> =C2-
>
>
> Flew out locally for bkfst on Sunday, past mountains to flatlands and lande
> d and all was fine. Got back into plane 45 min later and started up fine. D
> id normal runup and had 5 gal in left tank, full right tank, running off le
> ft, all was fine.
> Took off normally and did another normal left crosswind turn toward home an
> d mountains. All indications normal including fuel pressure. Climbing at 50
> 0 fpm, 100 mph, engine around 5100 rpm, when suddenly engine rpm drops to a
> lmost idle. No shaking or vibes. Immediately kicked on electric fuel pump b
> ut saw no indications for low fuel pressure, and engine came back normally.
> I don=99t think the fuel pump really did anything as engine just reg
> ained rpm and flew perfectly all the way home for another 20 min. out over
> desert just in case.
> I pulled cowl and checked things visually but no obvious problems. Don
> =99t have a good explanation for why rpm dropped.
> Bob H
>
> =C2-
> __,_._,___
>
>
> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List ttp://forum
> s.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> </blockquote>
>
> arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List p://forums.ma
> tronics.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.
> matronics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums
> .matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.co
> m/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c arget=_blank>http://www.matron
> ics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List p://forums.matronics.com blank>http://www.mat
> ronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-L
> ist">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.ma
> tronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matro
> =============
> =
>
> ________________________________ Message 11
> ____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 10:46:49 AM PST US
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
> From: Dennis Adams <ghf4986@gmail.com>
>
> Barry,
>
> I took the Rotax Maintenance course and that is when I found out about the
> fuel line back to the tank (or the fuel line from the tank). This was
> something new. You can find information on the Rotax Webb-site. I bought
> a manifold from Spruce to accommodate the fittings and the fuel jet size.
>
> My Faucet instruction for the fuel pump said to mount at 45 Degrees.
>
> Pulsar manuals said nothing along this line at least for my Kit 464.
>
> Dennis
>
> On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 10:00 AM, <barrynorman@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> My manuals never mentioned mounting the fuel pump at 45 degrees or routin
> g
>> fuel back to the tank via a return line. As a matter of fact, there were
> no
>> provisions in the end plates for a fuel return or a selector switch for
>> feeding back to the appropriate tank. There wasn't any information on a
>> bypass for the electric pump either.
>>
>>
>> Barry.
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> *From: *"Bernard Wilder" <bernard.wilder2@gmail.com>
>> *To: *pulsar-list@matronics.com
>> *Sent: *Wednesday, September 12, 2012 11:02:26 AM
>> *Subject: *Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>>
>> Bob,
>>
>> You may remember that my initial theory was that the problem was with the
>> electric fuel pump.
>>
>> Barry,
>>
>> Is your electric fuel pump mounted on a 45 degree angle ? ? ? Mine
>> specified that it should be,
>>
>> Do you have a jetted fuel line going from the fuel line between the engin
> e
>> fuel pump and the carbs back to your fuel cells ? ? ? Rotax standard
>> instalation instructions specify that there be one.
>>
>> Even with this bleed back path for hot fuel, and vapor formed in the fue
> l
>> line when the fuel cooks off and turning on the electric fuel pump,, on a
>> hot day when I forget to open the hatch on the top of my cowl it is commo
> n
>> for the engine to falter four to five minutes after re-start. On such day
> s
>> I turn on my electric fuel pump run my engine long enough to be past the
>> time that the engine will run on the fuel left over in the carb bowls.
>>
>> Bernie Wilder
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 9:27 AM, Bob Heiser <w7ikt@fly-web.us> wrote:
>>
>>> Bob,
>>> This has some similarities to my accident. I believe the electric fuel
>>> pump blocked fuel flow in my plane. When the fuel pump was removed I co
> uld
>>> not blow thru it in either direction, should have been able to in the
>>> direction of flow. After shipping the fuel pump to the NTSB it operated
>>> normally. Do you have a bypass and check valve around the electric fuel
>>> pump?
>>> *God Bless
>>> Bob Heiser W7IKT*
>>> On 9/10/2012 6:23 PM, Bob Hartunian wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Flew out locally for bkfst on Sunday, past mountains to flatlands and
>>> landed and all was fine. Got back into plane 45 min later and started up
>>> fine. Did normal runup and had 5 gal in left tank, full right tank, runn
> ing
>>> off left, all was fine.
>>> Took off normally and did another normal left crosswind turn toward home
>>> and mountains. All indications normal including fuel pressure. Climbing
> at
>>> 500 fpm, 100 mph, engine around 5100 rpm, when suddenly engine rpm drops
> to
>>> almost idle. No shaking or vibes. Immediately kicked on electric fuel pu
> mp
>>> but saw no indications for low fuel pressure, and engine came back
>>> normally. I don=92t think the fuel pump really did anything as engine ju
> st
>>> regained rpm and flew perfectly all the way home for another 20 min. out
>>> over desert just in case.
>>> I pulled cowl and checked things visually but no obvious problems. Don
> =92t
>>> have a good explanation for why rpm dropped.
>>> Bob H
>>>
>>> __,_._,___
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List
>>> ttp://forums.matronics.com
>>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>> *
>>
>> arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List
>> p://forums.matronics.com
>> blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> *
>>
>> *
>>
> ==========
> ==========
> ==========
> ==========
>> *
>>
>>
>
> ________________________________ Message 12
> ____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 10:52:14 AM PST US
> From: Cd <pulsar747n@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>
> How does the discharge line help with vapor locks? I thought that return li
> nes were a good idea on injection systems.
> Carlos
>
>
> On Sep 12, 2012, at 10:29 AM, barrynorman@comcast.net wrote:
>
>> Thanks Barry!
>>
>> From: "Barry J Edwards" <barryjedwards@lineone.net>
>> To: pulsar-list@matronics.com
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 1:17:26 PM
>> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>>
>> We use a simple Tee piece in the line after the fuel pump with a fine jet i
> n the discharge line back to the tank. the hole size is 0.35mm:
>> http://www.ekmpowershop2.com/ekmps/shops/conairsports/fuel-return-restrict
> or-fsc-039-1743-p.asp
>>
>> Simple and works well sending the minimum amount of fuel back to the tank.
>
>>
>> Barry
>> G-XPXP
>>
>> From: barrynorman@comcast.net
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 5:56 PM
>> To: pulsar-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>>
>> It sounds like I should go ahead and put in a return line. What did most p
> eople do for a return line? I was thinking about using a low pressure poppet
> valve (maybe 2-3 pounds) with a small fuel injection pill to restrict flow,
> installed in the fuel line before the split to the carbs and route it back t
> o a tank. My concern is pumping to much fuel back to one tank. With poppet v
> alve and pill, the fuel would only flow when pressure exceeded the pressure p
> oint of the poppet valve and then be restricted by the pill.
>> Barry
>> From: "Barry J Edwards" <barryjedwards@lineone.net>
>> To: pulsar-list@matronics.com
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 12:35:34 PM
>> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>>
>> The instructions about mounting my Facet pump were on the original Facet p
> ack which I still have some 21 years later. It clearly says that it must be m
> ounted at 45 degrees. Back in those days when we were running on leaded fuel
> there was less of an issue with vapour lock as the VP of that fuel was high
> er. When unleaded fuel became the norm, a fuel return line was mandated in t
> he UK to avoid the possibility of vapour locking. I think Rotax also mandate
> d it. I had to put a new return line into my right tank to facilitate this.
>>
>> Barry
>> 912 Taildragger UK 1030 hours
>>
>> From: barrynorman@comcast.net
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 5:00 PM
>> To: pulsar-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>>
>> My manuals never mentioned mounting the fuel pump at 45 degrees or routing
> fuel back to the tank via a return line. As a matter of fact, there were no
> provisions in the end plates for a fuel return or a selector switch for fee
> ding back to the appropriate tank. There wasn't any information on a bypass f
> or the electric pump either.
>>
>> Barry.
>>
>> From: "Bernard Wilder" <bernard.wilder2@gmail.com>
>> To: pulsar-list@matronics.com
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 11:02:26 AM
>> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>>
>> Bob,
>>
>> You may remember that my initial theory was that the problem was with the e
> lectric fuel pump.
>>
>> Barry,
>>
>> Is your electric fuel pump mounted on a 45 degree angle ? ? ? Mine specif
> ied that it should be,
>>
>> Do you have a jetted fuel line going from the fuel line between the engine
> fuel pump and the carbs back to your fuel cells ? ? ? Rotax standard instal
> ation instructions specify that there be one.
>>
>> Even with this bleed back path for hot fuel, and vapor formed in the fuel l
> ine when the fuel cooks off and turning on the electric fuel pump,, on a hot
> day when I forget to open the hatch on the top of my cowl it is common for t
> he engine to falter four to five minutes after re-start. On such days I turn
> on my electric fuel pump run my engine long enough to be past the time that
> the engine will run on the fuel left over in the carb bowls.
>>
>> Bernie Wilder
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 9:27 AM, Bob Heiser <w7ikt@fly-web.us> wrote:
>> Bob,
>> This has some similarities to my accident. I believe the electric fuel pu
> mp blocked fuel flow in my plane. When the fuel pump was removed I could no
> t blow thru it in either direction, should have been able to in the directio
> n of flow. After shipping the fuel pump to the NTSB it operated normally. D
> o you have a bypass and check valve around the electric fuel pump?
>> God Bless
>> Bob Heiser W7IKT
>> On 9/10/2012 6:23 PM, Bob Hartunian wrote:
>>
>> Flew out locally for bkfst on Sunday, past mountains to flatlands and land
> ed and all was fine. Got back into plane 45 min later and started up fine. D
> id normal runup and had 5 gal in left tank, full right tank, running off lef
> t, all was fine.
>> Took off normally and did another normal left crosswind turn toward home a
> nd mountains. All indications normal including fuel pressure. Climbing at 50
> 0 fpm, 100 mph, engine around 5100 rpm, when suddenly engine rpm drops to al
> most idle. No shaking or vibes. Immediately kicked on electric fuel pump but
> saw no indications for low fuel pressure, and engine came back normally. I d
> on=99t think the fuel pump really did anything as engine just regained
> rpm and flew perfectly all the way home for another 20 min. out over desert
> just in case.
>> I pulled cowl and checked things visually but no obvious problems. Don
> =99t have a good explanation for why rpm dropped.
>> Bob H
>>
>> __,_._,___
>>
>>
>>
>> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List
>> ttp://forums.matronics.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List
>> p://forums.matronics.com
>> blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>>
>>
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List">http://www.matronh
> ref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>>
>>
>> arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List
>> p://forums.matronics.com
>> blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>>
>>
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List">http://www.matronh
> ref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>>
>>
>> arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List
>> p://forums.matronics.com
>> blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>>
>>
> =========================
> ========
> =========================
> ========
> =========================
> ========
> =========================
> ========
>>
>
> ________________________________ Message 13
> ____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 11:29:19 AM PST US
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
> From: Bernard Wilder <bernard.wilder2@gmail.com>
>
> Barry,
>
> When you say nothing in the manuals, are you referring to Aero Design or
> Sky Star manuals ? ? ? ? ?
>
> I found nothing there either. It was in the Rotax installation manual. I
> checked it out with the Ratax rep ((Senior brain fart - can't say his name
> right now.)). that used to come to the Pulsar gatherings in Lawrence. He
> confirmed that I should install one.
>
> Dumby me, at first I connected it to one fuel cell. I was using the other
> fuel cell and the feedback line filled the fuel cell and fuel began to run
> out the vent. You have to put the feed back in a "T" in the fuel line after
> the selector switch. That way, whichever fuel cell you are using, the fuel
> will feed back there.
>
> The manual specified the size jet to use. I found the right size jet at a
> propane gas furnace repair facility and fashioned a way to put it in series
> with the feedback line. Forget how I did it but I could take a look at it
> and let you know if you are interested.
>
> Bernie Wilder
>
>
> n Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 12:00 PM, <barrynorman@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> My manuals never mentioned mounting the fuel pump at 45 degrees or
>> routing fuel back to the tank via a return line. As a matter of fact, the
> re
>> were no provisions in the end plates for a fuel return or a selector swit
> ch
>> for feeding back to the appropriate tank. There wasn't any information on
> a
>> bypass for the electric pump either.
>>
>>
>> Barry.
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> *From: *"Bernard Wilder" <bernard.wilder2@gmail.com>
>> *To: *pulsar-list@matronics.com
>> *Sent: *Wednesday, September 12, 2012 11:02:26 AM
>> *Subject: *Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>>
>> Bob,
>>
>> You may remember that my initial theory was that the problem was with the
>> electric fuel pump.
>>
>> Barry,
>>
>> Is your electric fuel pump mounted on a 45 degree angle ? ? ? Mine
>> specified that it should be,
>>
>> Do you have a jetted fuel line going from the fuel line between the engin
> e
>> fuel pump and the carbs back to your fuel cells ? ? ? Rotax standard
>> instalation instructions specify that there be one.
>>
>> Even with this bleed back path for hot fuel, and vapor formed in the fue
> l
>> line when the fuel cooks off and turning on the electric fuel pump,, on a
>> hot day when I forget to open the hatch on the top of my cowl it is commo
> n
>> for the engine to falter four to five minutes after re-start. On such day
> s
>> I turn on my electric fuel pump run my engine long enough to be past the
>> time that the engine will run on the fuel left over in the carb bowls.
>>
>> Bernie Wilder
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 9:27 AM, Bob Heiser <w7ikt@fly-web.us> wrote:
>>
>>> Bob,
>>> This has some similarities to my accident. I believe the electric fuel
>>> pump blocked fuel flow in my plane. When the fuel pump was removed I co
> uld
>>> not blow thru it in either direction, should have been able to in the
>>> direction of flow. After shipping the fuel pump to the NTSB it operated
>>> normally. Do you have a bypass and check valve around the electric fuel
>>> pump?
>>> *God Bless
>>> Bob Heiser W7IKT*
>>> On 9/10/2012 6:23 PM, Bob Hartunian wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Flew out locally for bkfst on Sunday, past mountains to flatlands and
>>> landed and all was fine. Got back into plane 45 min later and started up
>>> fine. Did normal runup and had 5 gal in left tank, full right tank, runn
> ing
>>> off left, all was fine.
>>> Took off normally and did another normal left crosswind turn toward home
>>> and mountains. All indications normal including fuel pressure. Climbing
> at
>>> 500 fpm, 100 mph, engine around 5100 rpm, when suddenly engine rpm drops
> to
>>> almost idle. No shaking or vibes. Immediately kicked on electric fuel pu
> mp
>>> but saw no indications for low fuel pressure, and engine came back
>>> normally. I don=92t think the fuel pump really did anything as engine ju
> st
>>> regained rpm and flew perfectly all the way home for another 20 min. out
>>> over desert just in case.
>>> I pulled cowl and checked things visually but no obvious problems. Don
> =92t
>>> have a good explanation for why rpm dropped.
>>> Bob H
>>>
>>> __,_._,___
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List
>>> ttp://forums.matronics.com
>>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>> *
>>
>> arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List
>> p://forums.matronics.com
>> blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> *
>>
>> *
>>
> ==========
>>
> ==========
> ==========
> ==========
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>
> ________________________________ Message 14
> ____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 12:14:31 PM PST US
> From: Ron Koval <ronko@att.net>
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>
> Barry,=0A=0AFixing a different fuel and engine run problem, I experienced w
> hat you refer to =0Aas fuel boil with my 582.=C2- The side of the engine
> compartment with a gascolator, =0Athe carburetors and their fuel lines woul
> d get so hot on hot days that when I =0Astopped the engine, I could hear th
> e gurgle of the fuel at a boil.=C2- If I quickly =0Ajumped out, opened th
> e cowling, I could see a bubble (vacuum) bounce in the fuel =0Aline(s).=C2
> - It also seems line the hottest thing of my engine, the muffler, sits
> =0Aright below the plumbing of the auxiliary fuel pump, gascolator and a ma
> jor =0Aportion of the fuel line route, so when the engine is off, the conve
> ction of =0Aheat naturally wants to rise, but gets=C2-held in place by th
> e cowling.=C2-=0A=0AI solved my problem by improving the the source of co
> ol air.=C2- All of the air =0Afeeding the carburetors, and cooling the fu
> el distribution would go through the =0Aradiator at the left cowling air in
> let.=C2- It was sealed well at top and bottom by =0Aits fiberglass mounts
> and then on the left and right with heavy flexible, =0Acarefully cut to fi
> t baffling material that was glued to the radiator sides =0A(solved over-he
> ating during taxiing on hot days).=C2- I removed one side of the =0Abaffl
> ing material to allow cool fresh air to this boiling fuel problem side.=C2
> - I =0Adon't have a boiling fuel problem anymore and fortunately can stil
> l taxi on 90+ =0Adegree days without ever over heating.=0A=0AI hope this is
> of help.=C2- Try to get more cool air to the boiling fuel areas.=0A=0ARo
> nko=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: "barrynorman@com
> cast.net" <barrynorman@comcast.net>=0ATo: pulsar-list@matronics.com=0ASent:
> Wed, September 12, 2012 9:19:14 AM=0ASubject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar
> -Aviators] 912 Hiccup=0A=0A=0AI had an event this summer that was similiar
> but I don't think it had anything =0Ato do with the fuel pump. It was a fai
> rly warm day and I had taken my son up for =0Aa ride in the Pulsar III and
> returned after a 30 minute flight where everything =0Awas perfectly normal.
> I shut the plane down for a few minutes while we loaded =0Aanother passeng
> er and had a very difficult time restarting the plane. This was =0Anot anyt
> hing new in this situation as I think the fuel starts to boil in the =0Abow
> ls making it difficult to start and get fresh fuel in due to the pressure i
> n =0Athe bowls. I finally got it started and it ran rough for a few minutes
> but =0Acleared up. I taxied to the runway and as I fed in power for takeof
> f, the RPM =0Adropped and the engine quit. The plane refused to restart so
> I brought it back =0Ato the hanger. I came back the next day and the plane
> started right up and ran =0Afine. This is a pattern I've noticed=C2-on my
> plane that appears to be vapor lock =0Aon warm days. Once those carb bowls
> get heat soaked from sitting, the problem =0Ashows up. =0A=0A=C2-=0ABarr
> y=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A=0AFrom: "Bob Heiser" <w7ikt@f
> ly-web.us>=0ATo: pulsar-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Wednesday, September 12,
> 2012 9:27:00 AM=0ASubject: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
> =0A=0A=0ABob,=0AThis has some similarities to my accident.=C2- I believe
> the electric fuel pump =0Ablocked fuel flow in my plane.=C2- When the fue
> l pump was removed I could not blow =0Athru it in either direction, should
> have been able to in the direction of flow.=C2- =0AAfter shipping the fue
> l pump to the NTSB it operated normally.=C2- Do you have a =0Abypass and
> check valve around the electric fuel pump?=0A=0AGod Bless=0ABob Heiser W7IK
> TOn 9/10/2012 6:23 PM, Bob Hartunian wrote:=0A=0A=C2- =0A>Flew out locall
> y for bkfst on Sunday, past mountains to flatlands and landed and =0A>all w
> as fine. Got back into plane 45 min later and started up fine. Did normal
> =0A>runup and had 5 gal in left tank, full right tank, running off left, al
> l was =0A>fine.=0A>Took off normally and did another normal left crosswind
> turn toward home and =0A>mountains. All indications normal including fuel p
> ressure. Climbing at 500 fpm, =0A>100 mph, engine around 5100 rpm, when sud
> denly engine rpm drops to almost idle. =0A>No shaking or vibes. Immediately
> kicked on electric fuel pump but saw no =0A>indications for low fuel press
> ure, and engine came back normally. I don=99t think =0A>the fuel pump
> really did anything as engine just regained rpm and flew perfectly =0A>all
> the way home for another 20 min. out over desert just in case.=0A>I pulled
> cowl and checked things visually but no obvious problems. Don=99t ha
> ve a =0A>good explanation for why rpm dropped.=0A>Bob H=0A>=0A>=0A>__,_._,_
> __=0A=0A arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List
> =0Ap://forums.matronics.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ========================
> =0A
>
> ________________________________ Message 15
> ____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 12:49:30 PM PST US
> From: barrynorman@comcast.net
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>
>
> Thanks for all the helpful tips. When I referred to the manuals, I was spea
> king of the Skystar building manuals.=C2-I'm going to redo the fuel syste
> m to include a fuel return and remounting the fuel pump and a fuel pump byp
> ass with check valve. It's=C2-looks like I need more cool air under the c
> owling on hot days and I think I have a solution for that. While doing some
> research on it today, I found someone else who had the exact same issues i
> n a=C2-Rotax 912s powered=C2-=C2-Dyn Aero MCR01. He had=C2-a fuel r
> eturn and had the exact same symptoms as mine. Both planes have very tight
> cowlings. His problem turned out to be overheating of the electronic igniti
> on on warm days. Here is the URL http://www.pprune.org/archive/index.php/t-
> 271030.html .
>
> =C2-
>
> I have an air scoop on the side of my cowling that I use for a ram air setu
> p during the warm months.=C2-During the winter I take the ram air off and
> plug the scoop with a tennis ball.=C2-If I remove the ball, it will let
> a lot more cool air=C2-into the top of the cowling when not using the ram
> air. When this problem occurred=C2-this summer I had it plugged without
> the ram system making very warm in the cowling.
>
> =C2-
>
> Thanks to all,
>
> Barry=C2-=C2-
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
>
> From: "Ron Koval" <ronko@att.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 3:12:54 PM
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>
>
> Barry,
> =C2-
> Fixing a different fuel and engine run problem, I experienced what you refe
> r to as fuel boil with my 582.=C2- The side of the engine compartment wit
> h a gascolator, the carburetors and their fuel lines would get so hot on ho
> t days that when I stopped the engine, I could hear the gurgle of the fuel
> at a boil.=C2- If I quickly jumped out, opened the cowling, I could see a
> bubble (vacuum) bounce in the fuel line(s).=C2- It also seems line the h
> ottest thing of my engine, the muffler, sits right below the plumbing of th
> e auxiliary fuel pump, gascolator and a major portion of the fuel line rout
> e, so when the engine is off, the convection of heat naturally wants to ris
> e, but gets=C2-held in place by the cowling.=C2-
> =C2-
> I solved my problem by improving the the source of cool air.=C2- All of t
> he air feeding the carburetors, and cooling the fuel distribution would go
> through the radiator at the left cowling air inlet.=C2- It was sealed wel
> l at top and bottom by its fiberglass mounts and then on the left and right
> with heavy flexible, carefully cut to fit baffling material that was glued
> to the radiator sides (solved over-heating during taxiing on hot days).=C2
> - I removed one side of the baffling material to allow cool fresh air to
> this boiling fuel problem side.=C2- I don't have a boiling fuel problem a
> nymore and fortunately can still taxi on 90+ degree days without ever over
> heating.
> =C2-
> I hope this is of help.=C2- Try to get more cool air to the boiling fuel
> areas.
> =C2-
> Ronko
>
>
> From: "barrynorman@comcast.net" <barrynorman@comcast.net>
> Sent: Wed, September 12, 2012 9:19:14 AM
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>
>
> I had an event this summer that was similiar but I don't think it had anyth
> ing to do with the fuel pump. It was a fairly warm day and I had taken my s
> on up for a ride in the Pulsar III and returned after a 30 minute flight wh
> ere everything was perfectly normal. I shut the plane down for a few minute
> s while we loaded another passenger and had a very difficult time restartin
> g the plane. This was not anything new in this situation as I think the fue
> l starts to boil in the bowls making it difficult to start and get fresh fu
> el in due to the pressure in the bowls. I finally got it started and it ran
> rough for a few minutes but cleared up. I taxied to the runway and as I fe
> d in power for takeoff, the RPM dropped and the engine quit. The plane refu
> sed to restart so I brought it back to the hanger. I came back the next day
> and the plane started right up and ran fine. This is a pattern I've notice
> d=C2-on my plane that appears to be vapor lock on warm days. Once those c
> arb bowls get heat soaked from sitting, the problem shows up.
>
> =C2-
>
> Barry
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
>
> From: "Bob Heiser" <w7ikt@fly-web.us>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:27:00 AM
> Subject: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>
>
> Bob,
> This has some similarities to my accident.=C2- I believe the electric fue
> l pump blocked fuel flow in my plane.=C2- When the fuel pump was removed
> I could not blow thru it in either direction, should have been able to in t
> he direction of flow.=C2- After shipping the fuel pump to the NTSB it ope
> rated normally.=C2- Do you have a bypass and check valve around the elect
> ric fuel pump?
>
> God Bless
> Bob Heiser W7IKT On 9/10/2012 6:23 PM, Bob Hartunian wrote:
>
>
> =C2-
>
>
> Flew out locally for bkfst on Sunday, past mountains to flatlands and lande
> d and all was fine. Got back into plane 45 min later and started up fine. D
> id normal runup and had 5 gal in left tank, full right tank, running off le
> ft, all was fine.
> Took off normally and did another normal left crosswind turn toward home an
> d mountains. All indications normal including fuel pressure. Climbing at 50
> 0 fpm, 100 mph, engine around 5100 rpm, when suddenly engine rpm drops to a
> lmost idle. No shaking or vibes. Immediately kicked on electric fuel pump b
> ut saw no indications for low fuel pressure, and engine came back normally.
> I don=99t think the fuel pump really did anything as engine just reg
> ained rpm and flew perfectly all the way home for another 20 min. out over
> desert just in case.
> I pulled cowl and checked things visually but no obvious problems. Don
> =99t have a good explanation for why rpm dropped.
> Bob H
>
>
> __,_._,___
>
>
> arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List p://forums.ma
> tronics.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronic
> s.com/Navigator?Puls=================
> =====
>
> ________________________________ Message 16
> ____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 01:16:06 PM PST US
> From: "HUGH COULTER" <ccoulter@wavecable.com>
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>
>
> On Wed, 12 Sep 2012 08:27:00 -0500
> Bob Heiser <w7ikt@fly-web.us> wrote:
>> Bob,
>> This has some similarities to my accident. I believe
>> the electric fuel pump blocked fuel flow in my plane.
>> When the fuel pump was removed I could not blow thru it
>> in either direction, should have been able to in the
>> direction of flow. After shipping the fuel pump to the
>> NTSB it operated normally. Do you have a bypass and
>> check valve around the electric fuel pump?
>> *God Bless
>> Bob Heiser W7IKT*
>> On 9/10/2012 6:23 PM, Bob Hartunian wrote:
>>>
>>> Flew out locally for bkfst on Sunday, past mountains to
>>> flatlands and
>>> landed and all was fine. Got back into plane 45 min
>>> later and started
>>> up fine. Did normal runup and had 5 gal in left tank,
>>> full right tank,
>>> running off left, all was fine.
>>> Took off normally and did another normal left crosswind
>>> turn toward
>>> home and mountains. All indications normal including
>>> fuel pressure.
>>> Climbing at 500 fpm, 100 mph, engine around 5100 rpm,
>>> when suddenly
>>> engine rpm drops to almost idle. No shaking or vibes.
>>> Immediately
>>> kicked on electric fuel pump but saw no indications for
>>> low fuel
>>> pressure, and engine came back normally. I don't think
>>> the fuel pump
>>> really did anything as engine just regained rpm and flew
>>> perfectly all
>>> the way home for another 20 min. out over desert just in
>>> case.
>>> I pulled cowl and checked things visually but no obvious
>>> problems.
>>> Don't have a good explanation for why rpm dropped.
>>> Bob H
>>>
>>>
>>> __,_._,___
>>
>
> My Pulsar gross weight is 1060.
>
> Clarke
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 17
> ____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 07:13:37 PM PST US
> From: "Keith Palmer" <kdpalmer@mweb.co.za>
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>
> Barry,
> What you must also concider is extraction and because the intake
> is relatively large (on a Pulsar I would say over sized) and ram fed,
> high pressure - the extraction should be at least three and a half times
> larger being low pressure (basic principal) if you don't keep to this
> ratio you build up a high pressure under the cowl (some people have
> reported bulging upper cowls) which restricts the flow.
> Look at the La Presti cowls very small inlets - good size
> extraction ( see a RV12) they don't seem to have a problem.
>
> Food for thought
>
> Keith
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: barrynorman@comcast.net
> To: pulsar-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:48 PM
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>
>
> Thanks for all the helpful tips. When I referred to the manuals, I was
> speaking of the Skystar building manuals. I'm going to redo the fuel
> system to include a fuel return and remounting the fuel pump and a fuel
> pump bypass with check valve. It's looks like I need more cool air under
> the cowling on hot days and I think I have a solution for that. While
> doing some research on it today, I found someone else who had the exact
> same issues in a Rotax 912s powered Dyn Aero MCR01. He had a fuel
> return and had the exact same symptoms as mine. Both planes have very
> tight cowlings. His problem turned out to be overheating of the
> electronic ignition on warm days. Here is the URL
> http://www.pprune.org/archive/index.php/t-271030.html.
>
>
> I have an air scoop on the side of my cowling that I use for a ram air
> setup during the warm months. During the winter I take the ram air off
> and plug the scoop with a tennis ball. If I remove the ball, it will let
> a lot more cool air into the top of the cowling when not using the ram
> air. When this problem occurred this summer I had it plugged without the
> ram system making very warm in the cowling.
>
>
> Thanks to all,
>
> Barry
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
>
> From: "Ron Koval" <ronko@att.net>
> To: pulsar-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 3:12:54 PM
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>
>
> Barry,
>
> Fixing a different fuel and engine run problem, I experienced what you
> refer to as fuel boil with my 582. The side of the engine compartment
> with a gascolator, the carburetors and their fuel lines would get so hot
> on hot days that when I stopped the engine, I could hear the gurgle of
> the fuel at a boil. If I quickly jumped out, opened the cowling, I
> could see a bubble (vacuum) bounce in the fuel line(s). It also seems
> line the hottest thing of my engine, the muffler, sits right below the
> plumbing of the auxiliary fuel pump, gascolator and a major portion of
> the fuel line route, so when the engine is off, the convection of heat
> naturally wants to rise, but gets held in place by the cowling.
>
> I solved my problem by improving the the source of cool air. All of
> the air feeding the carburetors, and cooling the fuel distribution would
> go through the radiator at the left cowling air inlet. It was sealed
> well at top and bottom by its fiberglass mounts and then on the left and
> right with heavy flexible, carefully cut to fit baffling material that
> was glued to the radiator sides (solved over-heating during taxiing on
> hot days). I removed one side of the baffling material to allow cool
> fresh air to this boiling fuel problem side. I don't have a boiling
> fuel problem anymore and fortunately can still taxi on 90+ degree days
> without ever over heating.
>
> I hope this is of help. Try to get more cool air to the boiling fuel
> areas.
>
> Ronko
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----
> From: "barrynorman@comcast.net" <barrynorman@comcast.net>
> To: pulsar-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Wed, September 12, 2012 9:19:14 AM
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>
>
> I had an event this summer that was similiar but I don't think it had
> anything to do with the fuel pump. It was a fairly warm day and I had
> taken my son up for a ride in the Pulsar III and returned after a 30
> minute flight where everything was perfectly normal. I shut the plane
> down for a few minutes while we loaded another passenger and had a very
> difficult time restarting the plane. This was not anything new in this
> situation as I think the fuel starts to boil in the bowls making it
> difficult to start and get fresh fuel in due to the pressure in the
> bowls. I finally got it started and it ran rough for a few minutes but
> cleared up. I taxied to the runway and as I fed in power for takeoff,
> the RPM dropped and the engine quit. The plane refused to restart so I
> brought it back to the hanger. I came back the next day and the plane
> started right up and ran fine. This is a pattern I've noticed on my
> plane that appears to be vapor lock on warm days. Once those carb bowls
> get heat soaked from sitting, the problem shows up.
>
>
> Barry
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
>
> From: "Bob Heiser" <w7ikt@fly-web.us>
> To: pulsar-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:27:00 AM
> Subject: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>
>
> Bob,
> This has some similarities to my accident. I believe the electric
> fuel pump blocked fuel flow in my plane. When the fuel pump was removed
> I could not blow thru it in either direction, should have been able to
> in the direction of flow. After shipping the fuel pump to the NTSB it
> operated normally. Do you have a bypass and check valve around the
> electric fuel pump?
>
> God Bless
> Bob Heiser W7IKT
> On 9/10/2012 6:23 PM, Bob Hartunian wrote:
>
>
> Flew out locally for bkfst on Sunday, past mountains to flatlands
> and landed and all was fine. Got back into plane 45 min later and
> started up fine. Did normal runup and had 5 gal in left tank, full right
> tank, running off left, all was fine.
> Took off normally and did another normal left crosswind turn toward
> home and mountains. All indications normal including fuel pressure.
> Climbing at 500 fpm, 100 mph, engine around 5100 rpm, when suddenly
> engine rpm drops to almost idle. No shaking or vibes. Immediately kicked
> on electric fuel pump but saw no indications for low fuel pressure, and
> engine came back normally. I don=99t think the fuel pump really
> did anything as engine just regained rpm and flew perfectly all the way
> home for another 20 min. out over desert just in case.
> I pulled cowl and checked things visually but no obvious problems.
> Don=99t have a good explanation for why rpm dropped.
> Bob H
>
>
> __,_._,___
>
>
> arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List
> p://forums.matronics.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Puls===========
> ===========
>
>
> = --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List
> ; http://forums.matronics.com
> blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Pulsar-List Digest: 17 Msgs - 09/12/12 |
I too learned to turn the fuel pump on during takeoff and landing. I had the
issue where you couldn't blow through the pump and bought a new one. As for
the 45 degree angle I recall having mine mounted that way too. I installed a
clear glass fuel filter near the fuel pump so could actually see fuel versus
using a pressure monitor.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pulsar-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pulsar-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Hartunian
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 1:40 PM
Subject: Pulsar-List: Re: Pulsar-List Digest: 17 Msgs - 09/12/12
Haveflown plane since hiccup and it runs fine. I concluded that problem was
momentary vaporlock. Had I kept boost pump on during takeoff, it would have
provided coldfuel to system and eliminated the vaporlock. Will do that
routinely now.
Bob H
> From: Pulsar-List Digest Server <pulsar-list@matronics.com>
> Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 23:58:23 -0700
> To: Pulsar-List Digest List <pulsar-list-digest@matronics.com>
> Subject: Pulsar-List Digest: 17 Msgs - 09/12/12
>
> *
>
> ================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> =================================================
>
> Today's complete Pulsar-Lit Digest can also be found in either of the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file inclues the Digest formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indxes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt fil includes the plain ASCII version
> of the Pulsar-List Digestand can be viewed with a generic text editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter
=2
> 012-09-12&Archive=Pulsar
>
> Text Version:
>
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter
20
> 12-09-12&Archive=Pulsar
>
>
> ===============================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ===============================================
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Pulsar-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Wed 09/12/12: 17
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 06:27 AM - Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup (Bob Heiser)
> 2. 07:18 AM - Re: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
> (barrynorman@comcast.net)
> 3. 08:04 AM - Re: Re: [Pulsr-Aviators] 912 Hiccup (Bernard Wilder)
> 4. 09:00 AM - Re: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
> (barrnorman@comcast.net)
> 5. 09:19 AM - Nose gea needed (Bigfootf2013)
> 6. 09:36 AM - Re: Re: [Pular-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
> (barrynorman@comcast.net)
> 7. 09:36 AM - Re: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup (Barry J Edwards)
> 8. 10:02 AM - Re: Re: [PulsarAviators] 912 Hiccup
> (barrynorman@comcast.net)
> 9. 10:18 AM - Re: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup (Barry J Edwards)
> 10. 10:34 AM - Re: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
> (barrynorman@comcast.net)
> 11. 10:46 AM - Re: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup (Dennis Adams)
> 12. 10:52 AM - Re: Re: [Pulsar-Avitors] 912 Hiccup (Cd)
> 13. 11:29 AM - Re: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup (Bernard Wilder)
> 14. 12:14 PM - Re: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup (Ron Koval)
> 15. 12:49 PM - Re: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
> (barrynorman@comcast.net)
> 16. 01:16 PM- Re: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup (HUGH COULTER)
> 17. 07:13 PM - Re: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup (Keith Palmer)
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 06:27:48 AM PST US
> From: Bob Heiser <w7ikt@fly-web.us>
> Subject: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>
> Bob,
> This has some similarities to my accident. I believe the electric fuel
> pump blocked fuel flow in my plane. When the fuel pump was removed I
> could not blow thru it in ither direction, shouldhave been able to in
> the direction of flow. After shipping the fuel pump to the NTSB it
> operated normally. Do you have bypass and check valve around the
> electric fuel pump?
> *God Bless
> Bob Heiser W7IKT*
> On 9/10/2012 6:23 PM, Bob Hartunian wrote:
>>
>> Flew out locally for bkfst on Sunday, past mountains to flatlands and
>> landed and all was fine. Got back into plane 45 min later and started
>> ufine. Did normal runup and had 5 gal in left tank, full right tank,
>> running off left, all was fine.
>> Took off normally and did another normal left crosswind turn toward
>> home and mountains. All indications normal including fuel pressure.
>> Climbing at 500 fpm, 100 mph, engine around 5100 rpm, when suddenly
>> engine rpm rops to almost idle. No shaking or vibes. Immediately
>> icked on electric fuel pump but saw no indications for low uel
>> pressure, and engine came back normally. I don't hink the fuel pump
>> really did anything as engine just reained rpm and flew perfectly all
>> the way home for anoher 20 min. out over desert just in case.
>> I pulled cowl and checked things visually but no obvious problems.
>> Don't have a good explanation for why rpm dropped.
>> Bob H
>>
>>
>> __,_.____
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2
> ____________________________________
> >
> Time: 07:18:35 AM PST US
> From: barrynorman@comcast.et
> Subject: Re: Pular-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>
>
> I had an event this summer that was similiar bt I don't think it had anyth
> ing to do with the fuel pump. It was a fairy warm day and I had taken my s
> on up for a ride in the Pulsar III and retured after a 30 minute flight wh
> ere everything was perfectly normal. I shut he plane down for a few minute
> s while we loaded another passenger and had very difficult time restartin
> g the plane. This was not anything new i this situation as I think the fue
> l starts to boil in the bowls making it dificult to start and get fresh fu
> el in due to the pressure in the bowls. I finaly got it started and it ran
> rough for a few minutes but cleared up.I taxied to the runway and as I fe
> d in power for takeoff, the RPM dropped and the engine quit. The plane
ref
> used to restart so I brought it back to the hanger. I came back the next
da
> y and the plane stted right up and ran fine. This is a pattern I've notic
> ed=C2-on my plane that appears to be vapor lock on warm days. Once those
> carb bowls get heat soaked from sitting, the problem shows up.
>
>
> Barry
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
>
> From: "Bo Heiser" <w7ikt@fly-web.us>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:27:0AM
> Subject: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>
>
> Bob,
>This has some similarities to my accident.=C2- I believe the electric fu
> l pump blocked fuel flow in my plane.=C2- When the fuel pump was reoved
> I could not blow thru it in either direction, shoul have been able to in t
> he direction of flow.=C2- After shipping te fuel pump to the NTSB it ope
> rated normally.=C2- Do you ha a bypass and check valve around the elect
> ric fuel pump?
>
> God Blss
> Bob Heiser W7IKT On 9/10/201 6:23 PM, Bob Hartunian wrote:
>
> =C2-
>
>
> Flew out locally for bkfst on Sunday, past mountains to flatlands and
lande
> d and all was fine. Got back into plane 45 min later and started up fine.
D
> id normal runup an had 5 gal in left tank, full right tank, running off le
> ft, all was ine.
> Took off normally and did another normal left crosswind turn towardhome an
> d mountains. All indications normal including fuel pressure. Climing at 50
> 0 fpm, 100 mph, engine around 5100 rpm, when suddenly enginerpm drops to a
> lmost idle. No shaking or vibes. Immediately kicked on elctric fuel pump b
> ut saw no indications for low fuel pressure, and ngine came back normally.
> I don=99t think the fuel pump really did anthing as engine just reg
> ained rpm and flew perfectly all the wa home for another 20 min. out over
> desert just in ase.
> I pulled cowl and checked things visually but no obvious problems. Don
> =99t have a good explanation for why rpm dropped.
> Bob H >
>
> __,_._,___
>
>
> =
>
> ________________________________ Mesage 3
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 08:04:18 AM PSTUS
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
> From: Brnard Wilder <bernard.wilder2@gmail.com>
>
> Bob,
>
> You may remember tht my initial theory was that the problem was with the
> electric fuel pump.
>
> Barry,
>
> Is your electric fuel pump mounted on a 45 degree angle ? ? ? Mine
> specified that it should be,
>
> Do you have a jetted fuel line going from the fuel line between the engine
> fuel pump and the carbs back to your fuel cells ? ? ? Rotax standard
> instalation instructions specify that there be one.
>
> Even with this bleed back path for hot fuel, and vapor forme in the fuel
> line when the fuel cooks off and turning on the electric fel pump,, on a
> hot day when I forget to open the hatch on the top of my cwl it is common
> for the engine to falter four to five minutes after re-tart. On such days
> I turn on my electric fuel pump run my engine lon enough to be past the
> time that the engine will run on the fuel left oer in the carb bowls.
>
> Bernie Wilder
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at :27 AM, Bob Heiser <w7ikt@fly-web.us> wrote:
>
>> Bob,
>> This has somesimilarities to my accident. I believe the electric fuel
>> pump blockedfuel flow in my plane. When the fuel pump was removed I cou
> ld
> not blow thru it in either direction, should have been able to in the
>> drection of flow. After shipping the fuel pump to the NTSB it operated
>> nrmally. Do you have a bypass and check valve around the electric fuel
> pump?
>> *God Bless
>> Bob Heiser W7IKT*
>> On 9/10/2012 6:23 PM, Bob Hartnian wrote:
>>
>>
>> Flew out locally for bkfst on Sunday, past mountais to flatlands and
>> landed and all was fine. Got back into plane 45 minlater and started up
>> fine. Did normal runup and had 5 gal in left tan, full right tank, runni
> ng
>> off left, all was fine.
>> Took off nomally and did another normal left crosswind turn toward home
>> and mountins. All indications normal including fuel pressure. Climbing a
> t
>> 500 fpm, 100 mph, engine around 510 rpm, when suddenly engine rpm drops
> to
>> almost idle. No shaking or vibes. Immediately kicked on electric fuel pum
> p
>> but saw no indications for low fuel pressure, and engine came back
>> normally. I don=92t think the fuel pump really did anything as engine jus
> t
>> regained rpm and flew perfectly all the way home for another 20 min. out
>> over desert just in case.
>> I pulled cowl nd checked things visually but no obvious problems. Don=92
> t
>> have agood explanation for why rpm dropped.
>> Bob H
>>
>> __,_._,___
>>
>>
>> *
>>
> ==========
> ==========
> ==========
> ==========
>> *
>
>>
>
> ________________________________ Message 4
> ____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 09:00:56 AM PST US
> From: barrynorman@omcast.net
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccu
>
>
> My manuals never mentioned mounting the fuel pump at 45 degres or routing
> fuel back to the tank via a return line. As a matter of fat, there were no
> provisions in the end plates for a fuel return or a elector switch for fe
> eding=C2-back to the appropriate tank. There wasnt any information on a
> bypass for the electric pump either. =C2-
>
> > Barry.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
>
> From: "Bernard ilder" <bernard.wilder2@gmail.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 1:02:26 AM
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviaors] 912 Hiccup
>
>
> Bob,
> =C2-
> You may remember that my initial theory was that the problem was with the
e
> lectric fuel pump.
> =C2-
> Barry,
> =C2-
> Is your electric fuel pump mounted on a 45 degree angle ? ? ?=C2- Mine sp
> ecified that it should be,
> =C2-
> Do you have a jetted fuel line going from the fuel line between the engine
> fuel pump and the carbs back o your fuel cells ? ? ? Rotax standard instal
> ation instructions specify hat there be one.
> =C2-
> =C2-Even with this bleed back path for hot ful, and vapor formed in the
> fuel line when the fuel cooks off and turnin on the electric fuel pump,,
> =C2-on a hot day when I forget to open he hatch on the top of my cowl it
> is common for the engine to falter four to five minutes after re-start.
On
> such days I turn on my electric fuel pump run my engine long enough to be
> ast the time that the engine will run on the fuel left over in the crb bo
> wls.
> =C2-
> Bernie Wilder
> =C2-
> =C2-
> =C2-
>
>
> =C2-
> On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 9:27 AM, Bob Heiser < w7ikt@fly-web.us > wrote:
>
>
> Bob,
> This has some similarites to my accident.=C2- I believe the electric fue
> l pump blocked fue flow in my plane.=C2- When the fuel pump was removed
> I could not blw thru it in either direction, should have been able to in t
> he directionof flow.=C2- After shipping the fuel pump to the NTSB it ope
> rated normaly.=C2- Do you have a bypass and check valve around the elect
> ri fuel pump?
>
> God Bless
> Bob Heiser W7IKT On 9/10/2012 6:23 PM, Bob artunian wrote:
>
> <blockquote>
> =C2-
>
>
> Flew out locally for bkfst on Sunday, past mountains to flatlands and
lande
> d nd all was fine. Got back into plane 45 min later and started up fine. D
> id normal runup and had 5 gal in left tank, full right tank, running off
le
> ft, all ws fine.
> Took off normally and did another normal left crosswind turn rd home an
> d mountains. All indications normal including fuel pressure. Climbing at
50
> 0 fpm, 100 mph, engine around 5100 rpm, when suddenly engine rpm drops to
a
> lmost idle. No shaking or vibes. Immediately kicked on electric fuel pump
b
> ut saw no indications for low fuel pressure, and engine came back
normally.
> I don=99t think the fuel pump really did anything as engine just reg
> ained rpm and flew perfectly all the way home for another 20 min. out over
> desert just in case.
> I pulled cowl and checked things visually but no obvious problems. Don
> =99t have a good explanation for why rpm dropped.
> Bob H
>
>
> __,_._,___
>
>
> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List ttp://forum
> s.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> </blockquote>
>
> =
>
> ________________________________ Message 5
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 09:19:24 AM PST US
> Subject: Pulsar-List: Nose gear needed
> From: "Bigfootf2013" <Bigfootf2013@gmail.com>
>
>
> Hi Everyone I'm glad I found the group. I am in need of a nose wheel
assembly.
> The nose leg and castoring fork.
>
> Thanks!
>
> --------
> BFlowers
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382935#382935
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 6
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 09:36:21 AM PST US
> From: barrynorman@comcast.net
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>
> I found a detailed installation guide on the Internet on the facet pump
and
> they do recommend mounting the pump at a 45 degree angle to allow buildup
> of vapors to pass through the pump easily. Unfortunately the location of
th
> e pump doesn't allow for it and I don't think=C2-a buildup of vapors exis
> ts near the pump because it doesn't get hot there inside the cabin. In
fact
> , when I'm having a hard start problem after it's heat soaked,=C2-the onl
> y way I can get=C2-it started is when=C2-I turn on the electric pump, s
> o I know it's functioning properly.=C2-What works for me is to take the u
> pper engine cowl off during short stops for refueling or whatever and that
> stops the heat soaking and vapor lock problems.=C2-=C2-
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: barrynorman@comcast.net
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 12:00:27 PM
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>
>
> My manuals never mentioned mounting the fuel pump at 45 degrees or routing
> fuel back to the tank via a return line. As a matter of fact, there were
no
> provisions in the end plates for a fuel return or a selector switch for
fe
> eding=C2-back to the appropriate tank. There wasn't any information on a
> bypass for the electric pump either.=C2-
>
> =C2-
>
> Barry.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
>
> From: "Bernard Wilder" <bernard.wilder2@gmail.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 11:02:26 AM
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>
>
> Bob,
> =C2-
> You may remember that my initial theory was that the problem was with the
e
> lectric fuel pump.
> =C2-
> Barry,
> =C2-
> Is your electric fuel pump mounted on a 45 degree angle ? ? ?=C2- Mine sp
> ecified that it should be,
> =C2-
> Do you have a jetted fuel line going from the fuel line between the engine
> fuel pump and the carbs back to your fuel cells ? ? ? Rotax standard
instal
> ation instructions specify that there be one.
> =C2-
> =C2-Even with this bleed back path for hot fuel, and vapor formed in the
> fuel line when the fuel cooks off and turning on the electric fuel pump,,
> =C2-on a hot day when I forget to open the hatch on the top of my cowl it
> is common for the engine to falter four to five minutes after re-start.
On
> such days I turn on my electric fuel pump run my engine long enough to be
> past the time that the engine will run on the fuel left over in the carb
bo
> wls.
> =C2-
> Bernie Wilder
> =C2-
> =C2-
> =C2-
>
>
> =C2-
> On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 9:27 AM, Bob Heiser < w7ikt@fly-web.us > wrote:
>
>
> Bob,
> This has some similarities to my accident.=C2- I believe the electric fue
> l pump blocked fuel flow in my plane.=C2- When the fuel pump was removed
> I could not blow thru it in either direction, should have been able to in
t
> he direction of flow.=C2- After shipping the fuel pump to the NTSB it ope
> rated normally.=C2- Do you have a bypass and check valve around the elect
> ric fuel pump?
>
> God Bless
> Bob Heiser W7IKT On 9/10/2012 6:23 PM, Bob Hartunian wrote:
>
> <blockquote>
> =C2-
>
>
> Flew out locally for bkfst on Sunday, past mountains to flatlands and
lande
> d and all was fine. Got back into plane 45 min later and started up fine.
D
> id normal runup and had 5 gal in left tank, full right tank, running off
le
> ft, all was fine.
> Took off normally and did another normal left crosswind turn toward home
an
> d mountains. All indications normal including fuel pressure. Climbing at
50
> 0 fpm, 100 mph, engine around 5100 rpm, when suddenly engine rpm drops to
a
> lmost idle. No shaking or vibes. Immediately kicked on electric fuel pump
b
> ut saw no indications for low fuel pressure, and engine came back
normally.
> I don=99t think the fuel pump really did anything as engine just reg
> ained rpm and flew perfectly all the way home for another 20 min. out over
> desert just in case.
> I pulled cowl and checked things visually but no obvious problems. Don
> =99t have a good explanation for why rpm dropped.
> Bob H
>
>
> __,_._,___
>
>
> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List ttp://forum
> s.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> </blockquote>
>
> arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List p://forums.ma
> ===================
>
> ________________________________ Message 7
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 09:36:21 AM PST US
> From: "Barry J Edwards" <barryjedwards@lineone.net>
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>
> The instructions about mounting my Facet pump were on the original Facet
> pack which I still have some 21 years later. It clearly says that it
> must be mounted at 45 degrees. Back in those days when we were running
> on leaded fuel there was less of an issue with vapour lock as the VP of
> that fuel was higher. When unleaded fuel became the norm, a fuel return
> line was mandated in the UK to avoid the possibility of vapour locking.
> I think Rotax also mandated it. I had to put a new return line into my
> right tank to facilitate this.
>
> Barry
> 912 Taildragger UK 1030 hours
>
> From: barrynorman@comcast.net
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 5:00 PM
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>
> My manuals never mentioned mounting the fuel pump at 45 degrees or
> routing fuel back to the tank via a return line. As a matter of fact,
> there were no provisions in the end plates for a fuel return or a
> selector switch for feeding back to the appropriate tank. There wasn't
> any information on a bypass for the electric pump either.
>
>
> Barry.
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
>
> From: "Bernard Wilder" <bernard.wilder2@gmail.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 11:02:26 AM
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>
>
> Bob,
>
> You may remember that my initial theory was that the problem was with
> the electric fuel pump.
>
> Barry,
>
> Is your electric fuel pump mounted on a 45 degree angle ? ? ? Mine
> specified that it should be,
>
> Do you have a jetted fuel line going from the fuel line between the
> engine fuel pump and the carbs back to your fuel cells ? ? ? Rotax
> standard instalation instructions specify that there be one.
>
> Even with this bleed back path for hot fuel, and vapor formed in the
> fuel line when the fuel cooks off and turning on the electric fuel
> pump,, on a hot day when I forget to open the hatch on the top of my
> cowl it is common for the engine to falter four to five minutes after
> re-start. On such days I turn on my electric fuel pump run my engine
> long enough to be past the time that the engine will run on the fuel
> left over in the carb bowls.
>
> Bernie Wilder
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 9:27 AM, Bob Heiser <w7ikt@fly-web.us> wrote:
>
> Bob,
> This has some similarities to my accident. I believe the electric
> fuel pump blocked fuel flow in my plane. When the fuel pump was removed
> I could not blow thru it in either direction, should have been able to
> in the direction of flow. After shipping the fuel pump to the NTSB it
> operated normally. Do you have a bypass and check valve around the
> electric fuel pump?
>
> God Bless
> Bob Heiser W7IKT
> On 9/10/2012 6:23 PM, Bob Hartunian wrote:
>
>
> Flew out locally for bkfst on Sunday, past mountains to flatlands
> and landed and all was fine. Got back into plane 45 min later and
> started up fine. Did normal runup and had 5 gal in left tank, full right
> tank, running off left, all was fine.
> Took off normally and did another normal left crosswind turn toward
> home and mountains. All indications normal including fuel pressure.
> Climbing at 500 fpm, 100 mph, engine around 5100 rpm, when suddenly
> engine rpm drops to almost idle. No shaking or vibes. Immediately kicked
> on electric fuel pump but saw no indications for low fuel pressure, and
> engine came back normally. I don=99t think the fuel pump really
> did anything as engine just regained rpm and flew perfectly all the way
> home for another 20 min. out over desert just in case.
> I pulled cowl and checked things visually but no obvious problems.
> Don=99t have a good explanation for why rpm dropped.
> Bob H
>
>
> __,_._,___
>
>
> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List
> ttp://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
> arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List
> p://forums.matronics.com
> blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 8
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 10:02:21 AM PST US
> From: barrynorman@comcast.net
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>
>
> It sounds like I should go ahead and put in a return line. What did most
pe
> ople do for a return line? I was thinking about using a low pressure poppe
> t valve (maybe 2-3 pounds) with a small fuel injection pill to restrict
flo
> w, installed in the fuel line before the split to t he carbs and route it
b
> ack to a tank. My concern is pumping to much fuel back to one tank. With
po
> ppet valve and pill, the fuel would only flow when pressure exceeded the
pr
> essure point of the poppet valve and then be restricted by the pill.
>
>
> Barry
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
>
> From: "Barry J Edwards" <barryjedwards@lineone.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 12:35:34 PM
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>
>
> The instructions about mounting my Facet pump were on the original Facet
pa
> ck which I still have some 21 years later. It clearly says that it must be
> mounted at 45 degrees. Back in those days when we were running on leaded
fu
> el there was less of an issue with vapour lock as the VP of that fuel was
h
> igher. When unleaded fuel became the norm, a fuel return line was mandated
> in the UK to avoid the possibility of vapour locking. I think Rotax also
ma
> ndated it. I had to put a new return line into my right tank to facilitate
> this.
> =C2-
> Barry
> 912 Taildragger UK 1030 hours=C2-
>
>
> =C2-
>
> From: barrynorman@comcast.net
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 5:00 PM
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
> =C2-
>
>
> My manuals never mentioned mounting the fuel pump at 45 degrees or routing
> fuel back to the tank via a return line. As a matter of fact, there were
no
> provisions in the end plates for a fuel return or a selector switch for
fe
> eding back to the appropriate tank. There wasn't any information on a
bypas
> s for the electric pump either.
>
> =C2-
>
> Barry.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
>
> From: "Bernard Wilder" <bernard.wilder2@gmail.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 11:02:26 AM
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>
>
> Bob,
> =C2-
> You may remember that my initial theory was that the problem was with the
e
> lectric fuel pump.
> =C2-
> Barry,
> =C2-
> Is your electric fuel pump mounted on a 45 degree angle ? ? ?=C2- Mine sp
> ecified that it should be,
> =C2-
> Do you have a jetted fuel line going from the fuel line between the engine
> fuel pump and the carbs back to your fuel cells ? ? ? Rotax standard
instal
> ation instructions specify that there be one.
> =C2-
> Even with this bleed back path for hot fuel, and vapor formed in the fuel
l
> ine when the fuel cooks off and turning on the electric fuel pump,, on a
ho
> t day when I forget to open the hatch on the top of my cowl it is common
fo
> r the engine to falter four to five minutes after re-start. On such days I
> turn on my electric fuel pump run my engine long enough to be past the
time
> that the engine will run on the fuel left over in the carb bowls.
> =C2-
> Bernie Wilder
> =C2-
> =C2-
> =C2-
>
>
> =C2-
> On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 9:27 AM, Bob Heiser < w7ikt@fly-web.us > wrote:
>
>
> Bob,
> This has some similarities to my accident.=C2- I believe the electric fue
> l pump blocked fuel flow in my plane.=C2- When the fuel pump was removed
> I could not blow thru it in either direction, should have been able to in
t
> he direction of flow.=C2- After shipping the fuel pump to the NTSB it ope
> rated normally.=C2- Do you have a bypass and check valve around the elect
> ric fuel pump?
>
> God Bless
> Bob Heiser W7IKT On 9/10/2012 6:23 PM, Bob Hartunian wrote:
>
> <blockquote>
> =C2-
>
>
> Flew out locally for bkfst on Sunday, past mountains to flatlands and
lande
> d and all was fine. Got back into plane 45 min later and started up fine.
D
> id normal runup and had 5 gal in left tank, full right tank, running off
le
> ft, all was fine.
> Took off normally and did another normal left crosswind turn toward home
an
> d mountains. All indications normal including fuel pressure. Climbing at
50
> 0 fpm, 100 mph, engine around 5100 rpm, when suddenly engine rpm drops to
a
> lmost idle. No shaking or vibes. Immediately kicked on electric fuel pump
b
> ut saw no indications for low fuel pressure, and engine came back
normally.
> I don=99t think the fuel pump really did anything as engine just reg
> ained rpm and flew perfectly all the way home for another 20 min. out over
> desert just in case.
> I pulled cowl and checked things visually but no obvious problems. Don
> =99t have a good explanation for why rpm dropped.
> Bob H
>
> =C2-
> __,_._,___
>
>
> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List ttp://forum
> s.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> </blockquote>
>
> arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List p://forums.ma
> tronics.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.
> matronics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums
> .matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.co
> =======================
> =
>
> ________________________________ Message 9
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 10:18:41 AM PST US
> From: "Barry J Edwards" <barryjedwards@lineone.net>
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>
> We use a simple Tee piece in the line after the fuel pump with a fine
> jet in the discharge line back to the tank. the hole size is 0.35mm:
> http://www.ekmpowershop2.com/ekmps/shops/conairsports/fuel-return-restric
> tor-fsc-039-1743-p.asp
>
> Simple and works well sending the minimum amount of fuel back to the
> tank.
>
> Barry
> G-XPXP
>
> From: barrynorman@comcast.net
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 5:56 PM
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>
> It sounds like I should go ahead and put in a return line. What did most
> people do for a return line? I was thinking about using a low pressure
> poppet valve (maybe 2-3 pounds) with a small fuel injection pill to
> restrict flow, installed in the fuel line before the split to the carbs
> and route it back to a tank. My concern is pumping to much fuel back to
> one tank. With poppet valve and pill, the fuel would only flow when
> pressure exceeded the pressure point of the poppet valve and then be
> restricted by the pill.
>
>
> Barry
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
>
> From: "Barry J Edwards" <barryjedwards@lineone.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 12:35:34 PM
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>
>
> The instructions about mounting my Facet pump were on the original Facet
> pack which I still have some 21 years later. It clearly says that it
> must be mounted at 45 degrees. Back in those days when we were running
> on leaded fuel there was less of an issue with vapour lock as the VP of
> that fuel was higher. When unleaded fuel became the norm, a fuel return
> line was mandated in the UK to avoid the possibility of vapour locking.
> I think Rotax also mandated it. I had to put a new return line into my
> right tank to facilitate this.
>
> Barry
> 912 Taildragger UK 1030 hours
>
> From: barrynorman@comcast.net
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 5:00 PM
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>
> My manuals never mentioned mounting the fuel pump at 45 degrees or
> routing fuel back to the tank via a return line. As a matter of fact,
> there were no provisions in the end plates for a fuel return or a
> selector switch for feeding back to the appropriate tank. There wasn't
> any information on a bypass for the electric pump either.
>
>
> Barry.
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
>
> From: "Bernard Wilder" <bernard.wilder2@gmail.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 11:02:26 AM
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>
>
> Bob,
>
> You may remember that my initial theory was that the problem was with
> the electric fuel pump.
>
> Barry,
>
> Is your electric fuel pump mounted on a 45 degree angle ? ? ? Mine
> specified that it should be,
>
> Do you have a jetted fuel line going from the fuel line between the
> engine fuel pump and the carbs back to your fuel cells ? ? ? Rotax
> standard instalation instructions specify that there be one.
>
> Even with this bleed back path for hot fuel, and vapor formed in the
> fuel line when the fuel cooks off and turning on the electric fuel
> pump,, on a hot day when I forget to open the hatch on the top of my
> cowl it is common for the engine to falter four to five minutes after
> re-start. On such days I turn on my electric fuel pump run my engine
> long enough to be past the time that the engine will run on the fuel
> left over in the carb bowls.
>
> Bernie Wilder
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 9:27 AM, Bob Heiser <w7ikt@fly-web.us> wrote:
>
> Bob,
> This has some similarities to my accident. I believe the electric
> fuel pump blocked fuel flow in my plane. When the fuel pump was removed
> I could not blow thru it in either direction, should have been able to
> in the direction of flow. After shipping the fuel pump to the NTSB it
> operated normally. Do you have a bypass and check valve around the
> electric fuel pump?
>
> God Bless
> Bob Heiser W7IKT
> On 9/10/2012 6:23 PM, Bob Hartunian wrote:
>
>
> Flew out locally for bkfst on Sunday, past mountains to flatlands
> and landed and all was fine. Got back into plane 45 min later and
> started up fine. Did normal runup and had 5 gal in left tank, full right
> tank, running off left, all was fine.
> Took off normally and did another normal left crosswind turn toward
> home and mountains. All indications normal including fuel pressure.
> Climbing at 500 fpm, 100 mph, engine around 5100 rpm, when suddenly
> engine rpm drops to almost idle. No shaking or vibes. Immediately kicked
> on electric fuel pump but saw no indications for low fuel pressure, and
> engine came back normally. I don=99t think the fuel pump really
> did anything as engine just regained rpm and flew perfectly all the way
> home for another 20 min. out over desert just in case.
> I pulled cowl and checked things visually but no obvious problems.
> Don=99t have a good explanation for why rpm dropped.
> Bob H
>
>
> __,_._,___
>
>
> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List
> ttp://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
> arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List
> p://forums.matronics.com
> blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List">http://www.matron
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>
>
> arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List
> p://forums.matronics.com
> blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 10
> ____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 10:34:51 AM PST US
> From: barrynorman@comcast.net
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>
> Thanks Barry!
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Barry J Edwards" <barryjedwards@lineone.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 1:17:26 PM
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>
>
> We use a simple Tee piece in the line after the fuel pump with a fine jet
i
> n the discharge line back to the tank. the hole size is 0.35mm:
>
http://www.ekmpowershop2.com/ekmps/shops/conairsports/fuel-return-restricto
> r-fsc-039-1743-p.asp
>
>
> =C2-
> Simple and works well sending the minimum amount of fuel back to the tank.
>
> =C2-
> Barry
> G-XPXP
> =C2-
>
> From: barrynorman@comcast.net
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 5:56 PM
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
> =C2-
>
>
> It sounds like I should go ahead and put in a return line. What did most
pe
> ople do for a return line? I was thinking about using a low pressure
poppet
> valve (maybe 2-3 pounds) with a small fuel injection pill to restrict
flow
> , installed in the fuel line before the split to the carbs and route it
bac
> k to a tank. My concern is pumping to much fuel back to one tank. With
popp
> et valve and pill, the fuel would only flow when pressure exceeded the
pres
> sure point of the poppet valve and then be restricted by the pill.
>
>
> Barry
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
>
> From: "Barry J Edwards" <barryjedwards@lineone.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 12:35:34 PM
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>
>
> The instructions about mounting my Facet pump were on the original Facet
pa
> ck which I still have some 21 years later. It clearly says that it must be
> mounted at 45 degrees. Back in those days when we were running on leaded
fu
> el there was less of an issue with vapour lock as the VP of that fuel was
h
> igher. When unleaded fuel became the norm, a fuel return line was mandated
> in the UK to avoid the possibility of vapour locking. I think Rotax also
ma
> ndated it. I had to put a new return line into my right tank to facilitate
> this.
> =C2-
> Barry
> 912 Taildragger UK 1030 hours=C2-
>
>
> =C2-
>
> From: barrynorman@comcast.net
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 5:00 PM
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
> =C2-
>
>
> My manuals never mentioned mounting the fuel pump at 45 degrees or routing
> fuel back to the tank via a return line. As a matter of fact, there were
no
> provisions in the end plates for a fuel return or a selector switch for
fe
> eding back to the appropriate tank. There wasn't any information on a
bypas
> s for the electric pump either.
>
> =C2-
>
> Barry.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
>
> From: "Bernard Wilder" <bernard.wilder2@gmail.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 11:02:26 AM
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>
>
> Bob,
> =C2-
> You may remember that my initial theory was that the problem was with the
e
> lectric fuel pump.
> =C2-
> Barry,
> =C2-
> Is your electric fuel pump mounted on a 45 degree angle ? ? ?=C2- Mine sp
> ecified that it should be,
> =C2-
> Do you have a jetted fuel line going from the fuel line between the engine
> fuel pump and the carbs back to your fuel cells ? ? ? Rotax standard
instal
> ation instructions specify that there be one.
> =C2-
> Even with this bleed back path for hot fuel, and vapor formed in the fuel
l
> ine when the fuel cooks off and turning on the electric fuel pump,, on a
ho
> t day when I forget to open the hatch on the top of my cowl it is common
fo
> r the engine to falter four to five minutes after re-start. On such days I
> turn on my electric fuel pump run my engine long enough to be past the
time
> that the engine will run on the fuel left over in the carb bowls.
> =C2-
> Bernie Wilder
> =C2-
> =C2-
> =C2-
>
>
> =C2-
> On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 9:27 AM, Bob Heiser < w7ikt@fly-web.us > wrote:
>
>
> Bob,
> This has some similarities to my accident.=C2- I believe the electric fue
> l pump blocked fuel flow in my plane.=C2- When the fuel pump was removed
> I could not blow thru it in either direction, should have been able to in
t
> he direction of flow.=C2- After shipping the fuel pump to the NTSB it ope
> rated normally.=C2- Do you have a bypass and check valve around the elect
> ric fuel pump?
>
> God Bless
> Bob Heiser W7IKT On 9/10/2012 6:23 PM, Bob Hartunian wrote:
>
> <blockquote>
> =C2-
>
>
> Flew out locally for bkfst on Sunday, past mountains to flatlands and
lande
> d and all was fine. Got back into plane 45 min later and started up fine.
D
> id normal runup and had 5 gal in left tank, full right tank, running off
le
> ft, all was fine.
> Took off normally and did another normal left crosswind turn toward home
an
> d mountains. All indications normal including fuel pressure. Climbing at
50
> 0 fpm, 100 mph, engine around 5100 rpm, when suddenly engine rpm drops to
a
> lmost idle. No shaking or vibes. Immediately kicked on electric fuel pump
b
> ut saw no indications for low fuel pressure, and engine came back
normally.
> I don=99t think the fuel pump really did anything as engine just reg
> ained rpm and flew perfectly all the way home for another 20 min. out over
> desert just in case.
> I pulled cowl and checked things visually but no obvious problems. Don
> =99t have a good explanation for why rpm dropped.
> Bob H
>
> =C2-
> __,_._,___
>
>
> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List ttp://forum
> s.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> </blockquote>
>
> arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List p://forums.ma
> tronics.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.
> matronics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums
> .matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.co
> m/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c arget=_blank>http://www.matron
> ics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List p://forums.matronics.com
blank>http://www.mat
> ronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-L
> ist">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.ma
> tronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matro
> =============
> =
>
> ________________________________ Message 11
> ____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 10:46:49 AM PST US
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
> From: Dennis Adams <ghf4986@gmail.com>
>
> Barry,
>
> I took the Rotax Maintenance course and that is when I found out about the
> fuel line back to the tank (or the fuel line from the tank). This was
> something new. You can find information on the Rotax Webb-site. I bought
> a manifold from Spruce to accommodate the fittings and the fuel jet size.
>
> My Faucet instruction for the fuel pump said to mount at 45 Degrees.
>
> Pulsar manuals said nothing along this line at least for my Kit 464.
>
> Dennis
>
> On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 10:00 AM, <barrynorman@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> My manuals never mentioned mounting the fuel pump at 45 degrees or routin
> g
>> fuel back to the tank via a return line. As a matter of fact, there were
> no
>> provisions in the end plates for a fuel return or a selector switch for
>> feeding back to the appropriate tank. There wasn't any information on a
>> bypass for the electric pump either.
>>
>>
>> Barry.
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> *From: *"Bernard Wilder" <bernard.wilder2@gmail.com>
>> *To: *pulsar-list@matronics.com
>> *Sent: *Wednesday, September 12, 2012 11:02:26 AM
>> *Subject: *Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>>
>> Bob,
>>
>> You may remember that my initial theory was that the problem was with the
>> electric fuel pump.
>>
>> Barry,
>>
>> Is your electric fuel pump mounted on a 45 degree angle ? ? ? Mine
>> specified that it should be,
>>
>> Do you have a jetted fuel line going from the fuel line between the engin
> e
>> fuel pump and the carbs back to your fuel cells ? ? ? Rotax standard
>> instalation instructions specify that there be one.
>>
>> Even with this bleed back path for hot fuel, and vapor formed in the fue
> l
>> line when the fuel cooks off and turning on the electric fuel pump,, on a
>> hot day when I forget to open the hatch on the top of my cowl it is commo
> n
>> for the engine to falter four to five minutes after re-start. On such day
> s
>> I turn on my electric fuel pump run my engine long enough to be past the
>> time that the engine will run on the fuel left over in the carb bowls.
>>
>> Bernie Wilder
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 9:27 AM, Bob Heiser <w7ikt@fly-web.us> wrote:
>>
>>> Bob,
>>> This has some similarities to my accident. I believe the electric fuel
>>> pump blocked fuel flow in my plane. When the fuel pump was removed I co
> uld
>>> not blow thru it in either direction, should have been able to in the
>>> direction of flow. After shipping the fuel pump to the NTSB it operated
>>> normally. Do you have a bypass and check valve around the electric fuel
>>> pump?
>>> *God Bless
>>> Bob Heiser W7IKT*
>>> On 9/10/2012 6:23 PM, Bob Hartunian wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Flew out locally for bkfst on Sunday, past mountains to flatlands and
>>> landed and all was fine. Got back into plane 45 min later and started up
>>> fine. Did normal runup and had 5 gal in left tank, full right tank, runn
> ing
>>> off left, all was fine.
>>> Took off normally and did another normal left crosswind turn toward home
>>> and mountains. All indications normal including fuel pressure. Climbing
> at
>>> 500 fpm, 100 mph, engine around 5100 rpm, when suddenly engine rpm drops
> to
>>> almost idle. No shaking or vibes. Immediately kicked on electric fuel pu
> mp
>>> but saw no indications for low fuel pressure, and engine came back
>>> normally. I don=92t think the fuel pump really did anything as engine ju
> st
>>> regained rpm and flew perfectly all the way home for another 20 min. out
>>> over desert just in case.
>>> I pulled cowl and checked things visually but no obvious problems. Don
> =92t
>>> have a good explanation for why rpm dropped.
>>> Bob H
>>>
>>> __,_._,___
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List
>>> ttp://forums.matronics.com
>>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>> *
>>
>> arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List
>> p://forums.matronics.com
>> blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> *
>>
>> *
>>
> ==========
> ==========
> ==========
> ==========
>> *
>>
>>
>
> ________________________________ Message 12
> ____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 10:52:14 AM PST US
> From: Cd <pulsar747n@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>
> How does the discharge line help with vapor locks? I thought that return
li
> nes were a good idea on injection systems.
> Carlos
>
>
> On Sep 12, 2012, at 10:29 AM, barrynorman@comcast.net wrote:
>
>> Thanks Barry!
>>
>> From: "Barry J Edwards" <barryjedwards@lineone.net>
>> To: pulsar-list@matronics.com
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 1:17:26 PM
>> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>>
>> We use a simple Tee piece in the line after the fuel pump with a fine jet
i
> n the discharge line back to the tank. the hole size is 0.35mm:
>>
http://www.ekmpowershop2.com/ekmps/shops/conairsports/fuel-return-restrict
> or-fsc-039-1743-p.asp
>>
>> Simple and works well sending the minimum amount of fuel back to the
tank.
>
>>
>> Barry
>> G-XPXP
>>
>> From: barrynorman@comcast.net
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 5:56 PM
>> To: pulsar-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>>
>> It sounds like I should go ahead and put in a return line. What did most
p
> eople do for a return line? I was thinking about using a low pressure
poppet
> valve (maybe 2-3 pounds) with a small fuel injection pill to restrict
flow,
> installed in the fuel line before the split to the carbs and route it
back t
> o a tank. My concern is pumping to much fuel back to one tank. With poppet
v
> alve and pill, the fuel would only flow when pressure exceeded the
pressure p
> oint of the poppet valve and then be restricted by the pill.
>> Barry
>> From: "Barry J Edwards" <barryjedwards@lineone.net>
>> To: pulsar-list@matronics.com
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 12:35:34 PM
>> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>>
>> The instructions about mounting my Facet pump were on the original Facet
p
> ack which I still have some 21 years later. It clearly says that it must
be m
> ounted at 45 degrees. Back in those days when we were running on leaded
fuel
> there was less of an issue with vapour lock as the VP of that fuel was
high
> er. When unleaded fuel became the norm, a fuel return line was mandated in
t
> he UK to avoid the possibility of vapour locking. I think Rotax also
mandate
> d it. I had to put a new return line into my right tank to facilitate
this.
>>
>> Barry
>> 912 Taildragger UK 1030 hours
>>
>> From: barrynorman@comcast.net
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 5:00 PM
>> To: pulsar-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>>
>> My manuals never mentioned mounting the fuel pump at 45 degrees or
routing
> fuel back to the tank via a return line. As a matter of fact, there were
no
> provisions in the end plates for a fuel return or a selector switch for
fee
> ding back to the appropriate tank. There wasn't any information on a
bypass f
> or the electric pump either.
>>
>> Barry.
>>
>> From: "Bernard Wilder" <bernard.wilder2@gmail.com>
>> To: pulsar-list@matronics.com
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 11:02:26 AM
>> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>>
>> Bob,
>>
>> You may remember that my initial theory was that the problem was with the
e
> lectric fuel pump.
>>
>> Barry,
>>
>> Is your electric fuel pump mounted on a 45 degree angle ? ? ? Mine
specif
> ied that it should be,
>>
>> Do you have a jetted fuel line going from the fuel line between the
engine
> fuel pump and the carbs back to your fuel cells ? ? ? Rotax standard
instal
> ation instructions specify that there be one.
>>
>> Even with this bleed back path for hot fuel, and vapor formed in the fuel
l
> ine when the fuel cooks off and turning on the electric fuel pump,, on a
hot
> day when I forget to open the hatch on the top of my cowl it is common
for t
> he engine to falter four to five minutes after re-start. On such days I
turn
> on my electric fuel pump run my engine long enough to be past the time
that
> the engine will run on the fuel left over in the carb bowls.
>>
>> Bernie Wilder
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 9:27 AM, Bob Heiser <w7ikt@fly-web.us> wrote:
>> Bob,
>> This has some similarities to my accident. I believe the electric fuel
pu
> mp blocked fuel flow in my plane. When the fuel pump was removed I could
no
> t blow thru it in either direction, should have been able to in the
directio
> n of flow. After shipping the fuel pump to the NTSB it operated normally.
D
> o you have a bypass and check valve around the electric fuel pump?
>> God Bless
>> Bob Heiser W7IKT
>> On 9/10/2012 6:23 PM, Bob Hartunian wrote:
>>
>> Flew out locally for bkfst on Sunday, past mountains to flatlands and
land
> ed and all was fine. Got back into plane 45 min later and started up fine.
D
> id normal runup and had 5 gal in left tank, full right tank, running off
lef
> t, all was fine.
>> Took off normally and did another normal left crosswind turn toward home
a
> nd mountains. All indications normal including fuel pressure. Climbing at
50
> 0 fpm, 100 mph, engine around 5100 rpm, when suddenly engine rpm drops to
al
> most idle. No shaking or vibes. Immediately kicked on electric fuel pump
but
> saw no indications for low fuel pressure, and engine came back normally.
I d
> on=99t think the fuel pump really did anything as engine just regained
> rpm and flew perfectly all the way home for another 20 min. out over
desert
> just in case.
>> I pulled cowl and checked things visually but no obvious problems. Don
> =99t have a good explanation for why rpm dropped.
>> Bob H
>>
>> __,_._,___
>>
>>
>>
>> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List
>> ttp://forums.matronics.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List
>> p://forums.matronics.com
>> blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>>
>>
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List">http://www.matronh
> ref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>>
>>
>> arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List
>> p://forums.matronics.com
>> blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>>
>>
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List">http://www.matronh
> ref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>>
>>
>> arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List
>> p://forums.matronics.com
>> blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>>
>>
> =========================
> ========
> =========================
> ========
> =========================
> ========
> =========================
> ========
>>
>
> ________________________________ Message 13
> ____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 11:29:19 AM PST US
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
> From: Bernard Wilder <bernard.wilder2@gmail.com>
>
> Barry,
>
> When you say nothing in the manuals, are you referring to Aero Design or
> Sky Star manuals ? ? ? ? ?
>
> I found nothing there either. It was in the Rotax installation manual. I
> checked it out with the Ratax rep ((Senior brain fart - can't say his name
> right now.)). that used to come to the Pulsar gatherings in Lawrence. He
> confirmed that I should install one.
>
> Dumby me, at first I connected it to one fuel cell. I was using the other
> fuel cell and the feedback line filled the fuel cell and fuel began to run
> out the vent. You have to put the feed back in a "T" in the fuel line
after
> the selector switch. That way, whichever fuel cell you are using, the
fuel
> will feed back there.
>
> The manual specified the size jet to use. I found the right size jet at a
> propane gas furnace repair facility and fashioned a way to put it in
series
> with the feedback line. Forget how I did it but I could take a look at it
> and let you know if you are interested.
>
> Bernie Wilder
>
>
> n Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 12:00 PM, <barrynorman@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> My manuals never mentioned mounting the fuel pump at 45 degrees or
>> routing fuel back to the tank via a return line. As a matter of fact, the
> re
>> were no provisions in the end plates for a fuel return or a selector swit
> ch
>> for feeding back to the appropriate tank. There wasn't any information on
> a
>> bypass for the electric pump either.
>>
>>
>> Barry.
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> *From: *"Bernard Wilder" <bernard.wilder2@gmail.com>
>> *To: *pulsar-list@matronics.com
>> *Sent: *Wednesday, September 12, 2012 11:02:26 AM
>> *Subject: *Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>>
>> Bob,
>>
>> You may remember that my initial theory was that the problem was with the
>> electric fuel pump.
>>
>> Barry,
>>
>> Is your electric fuel pump mounted on a 45 degree angle ? ? ? Mine
>> specified that it should be,
>>
>> Do you have a jetted fuel line going from the fuel line between the engin
> e
>> fuel pump and the carbs back to your fuel cells ? ? ? Rotax standard
>> instalation instructions specify that there be one.
>>
>> Even with this bleed back path for hot fuel, and vapor formed in the fue
> l
>> line when the fuel cooks off and turning on the electric fuel pump,, on a
>> hot day when I forget to open the hatch on the top of my cowl it is commo
> n
>> for the engine to falter four to five minutes after re-start. On such day
> s
>> I turn on my electric fuel pump run my engine long enough to be past the
>> time that the engine will run on the fuel left over in the carb bowls.
>>
>> Bernie Wilder
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 9:27 AM, Bob Heiser <w7ikt@fly-web.us> wrote:
>>
>>> Bob,
>>> This has some similarities to my accident. I believe the electric fuel
>>> pump blocked fuel flow in my plane. When the fuel pump was removed I co
> uld
>>> not blow thru it in either direction, should have been able to in the
>>> direction of flow. After shipping the fuel pump to the NTSB it operated
>>> normally. Do you have a bypass and check valve around the electric fuel
>>> pump?
>>> *God Bless
>>> Bob Heiser W7IKT*
>>> On 9/10/2012 6:23 PM, Bob Hartunian wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Flew out locally for bkfst on Sunday, past mountains to flatlands and
>>> landed and all was fine. Got back into plane 45 min later and started up
>>> fine. Did normal runup and had 5 gal in left tank, full right tank, runn
> ing
>>> off left, all was fine.
>>> Took off normally and did another normal left crosswind turn toward home
>>> and mountains. All indications normal including fuel pressure. Climbing
> at
>>> 500 fpm, 100 mph, engine around 5100 rpm, when suddenly engine rpm drops
> to
>>> almost idle. No shaking or vibes. Immediately kicked on electric fuel pu
> mp
>>> but saw no indications for low fuel pressure, and engine came back
>>> normally. I don=92t think the fuel pump really did anything as engine ju
> st
>>> regained rpm and flew perfectly all the way home for another 20 min. out
>>> over desert just in case.
>>> I pulled cowl and checked things visually but no obvious problems. Don
> =92t
>>> have a good explanation for why rpm dropped.
>>> Bob H
>>>
>>> __,_._,___
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List
>>> ttp://forums.matronics.com
>>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>> *
>>
>> arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List
>> p://forums.matronics.com
>> blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> *
>>
>> *
>>
> ==========
>>
> ==========
> ==========
> ==========
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>
> ________________________________ Message 14
> ____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 12:14:31 PM PST US
> From: Ron Koval <ronko@att.net>
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>
> Barry,=0A=0AFixing a different fuel and engine run problem, I experienced
w
> hat you refer to =0Aas fuel boil with my 582.=C2- The side of the engine
> compartment with a gascolator, =0Athe carburetors and their fuel lines
woul
> d get so hot on hot days that when I =0Astopped the engine, I could hear
th
> e gurgle of the fuel at a boil.=C2- If I quickly =0Ajumped out, opened th
> e cowling, I could see a bubble (vacuum) bounce in the fuel =0Aline(s).=C2
> - It also seems line the hottest thing of my engine, the muffler, sits
> =0Aright below the plumbing of the auxiliary fuel pump, gascolator and a
ma
> jor =0Aportion of the fuel line route, so when the engine is off, the
conve
> ction of =0Aheat naturally wants to rise, but gets=C2-held in place by th
> e cowling.=C2-=0A=0AI solved my problem by improving the the source of co
> ol air.=C2- All of the air =0Afeeding the carburetors, and cooling the fu
> el distribution would go through the =0Aradiator at the left cowling air
in
> let.=C2- It was sealed well at top and bottom by =0Aits fiberglass mounts
> and then on the left and right with heavy flexible, =0Acarefully cut to
fi
> t baffling material that was glued to the radiator sides =0A(solved
over-he
> ating during taxiing on hot days).=C2- I removed one side of the =0Abaffl
> ing material to allow cool fresh air to this boiling fuel problem side.=C2
> - I =0Adon't have a boiling fuel problem anymore and fortunately can stil
> l taxi on 90+ =0Adegree days without ever over heating.=0A=0AI hope this
is
> of help.=C2- Try to get more cool air to the boiling fuel areas.=0A=0ARo
> nko=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom:
"barrynorman@com
> cast.net" <barrynorman@comcast.net>=0ATo:
pulsar-list@matronics.com=0ASent:
> Wed, September 12, 2012 9:19:14 AM=0ASubject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re:
[Pulsar
> -Aviators] 912 Hiccup=0A=0A=0AI had an event this summer that was similiar
> but I don't think it had anything =0Ato do with the fuel pump. It was a
fai
> rly warm day and I had taken my son up for =0Aa ride in the Pulsar III and
> returned after a 30 minute flight where everything =0Awas perfectly
normal.
> I shut the plane down for a few minutes while we loaded =0Aanother
passeng
> er and had a very difficult time restarting the plane. This was =0Anot
anyt
> hing new in this situation as I think the fuel starts to boil in the
=0Abow
> ls making it difficult to start and get fresh fuel in due to the pressure
i
> n =0Athe bowls. I finally got it started and it ran rough for a few
minutes
> but =0Acleared up. I taxied to the runway and as I fed in power for
takeof
> f, the RPM =0Adropped and the engine quit. The plane refused to restart so
> I brought it back =0Ato the hanger. I came back the next day and the plane
> started right up and ran =0Afine. This is a pattern I've noticed=C2-on my
> plane that appears to be vapor lock =0Aon warm days. Once those carb
bowls
> get heat soaked from sitting, the problem =0Ashows up. =0A=0A=C2-=0ABarr
> y=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A=0AFrom: "Bob Heiser"
<w7ikt@f
> ly-web.us>=0ATo: pulsar-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Wednesday, September
12,
> 2012 9:27:00 AM=0ASubject: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
> =0A=0A=0ABob,=0AThis has some similarities to my accident.=C2- I believe
> the electric fuel pump =0Ablocked fuel flow in my plane.=C2- When the fue
> l pump was removed I could not blow =0Athru it in either direction, should
> have been able to in the direction of flow.=C2- =0AAfter shipping the fue
> l pump to the NTSB it operated normally.=C2- Do you have a =0Abypass and
> check valve around the electric fuel pump?=0A=0AGod Bless=0ABob Heiser
W7IK
> TOn 9/10/2012 6:23 PM, Bob Hartunian wrote:=0A=0A=C2- =0A>Flew out locall
> y for bkfst on Sunday, past mountains to flatlands and landed and =0A>all
w
> as fine. Got back into plane 45 min later and started up fine. Did normal
> =0A>runup and had 5 gal in left tank, full right tank, running off left,
al
> l was =0A>fine.=0A>Took off normally and did another normal left crosswind
> turn toward home and =0A>mountains. All indications normal including fuel
p
> ressure. Climbing at 500 fpm, =0A>100 mph, engine around 5100 rpm, when
sud
> denly engine rpm drops to almost idle. =0A>No shaking or vibes.
Immediately
> kicked on electric fuel pump but saw no =0A>indications for low fuel
press
> ure, and engine came back normally. I don=99t think =0A>the fuel pump
> really did anything as engine just regained rpm and flew perfectly
=0A>all
> the way home for another 20 min. out over desert just in case.=0A>I
pulled
> cowl and checked things visually but no obvious problems. Don=99t ha
> ve a =0A>good explanation for why rpm dropped.=0A>Bob
H=0A>=0A>=0A>__,_._,_
> __=0A=0A arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List
> =0Ap://forums.matronics.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ========================
> =0A
>
> ________________________________ Message 15
> ____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 12:49:30 PM PST US
> From: barrynorman@comcast.net
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>
>
> Thanks for all the helpful tips. When I referred to the manuals, I was
spea
> king of the Skystar building manuals.=C2-I'm going to redo the fuel syste
> m to include a fuel return and remounting the fuel pump and a fuel pump
byp
> ass with check valve. It's=C2-looks like I need more cool air under the c
> owling on hot days and I think I have a solution for that. While doing
some
> research on it today, I found someone else who had the exact same issues
i
> n a=C2-Rotax 912s powered=C2-=C2-Dyn Aero MCR01. He had=C2-a fuel r
> eturn and had the exact same symptoms as mine. Both planes have very tight
> cowlings. His problem turned out to be overheating of the electronic
igniti
> on on warm days. Here is the URL
http://www.pprune.org/archive/index.php/t-
> 271030.html .
>
> =C2-
>
> I have an air scoop on the side of my cowling that I use for a ram air
setu
> p during the warm months.=C2-During the winter I take the ram air off and
> plug the scoop with a tennis ball.=C2-If I remove the ball, it will let
> a lot more cool air=C2-into the top of the cowling when not using the ram
> air. When this problem occurred=C2-this summer I had it plugged without
> the ram system making very warm in the cowling.
>
> =C2-
>
> Thanks to all,
>
> Barry=C2-=C2-
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
>
> From: "Ron Koval" <ronko@att.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 3:12:54 PM
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>
>
> Barry,
> =C2-
> Fixing a different fuel and engine run problem, I experienced what you
refe
> r to as fuel boil with my 582.=C2- The side of the engine compartment wit
> h a gascolator, the carburetors and their fuel lines would get so hot on
ho
> t days that when I stopped the engine, I could hear the gurgle of the fuel
> at a boil.=C2- If I quickly jumped out, opened the cowling, I could see a
> bubble (vacuum) bounce in the fuel line(s).=C2- It also seems line the h
> ottest thing of my engine, the muffler, sits right below the plumbing of
th
> e auxiliary fuel pump, gascolator and a major portion of the fuel line
rout
> e, so when the engine is off, the convection of heat naturally wants to
ris
> e, but gets=C2-held in place by the cowling.=C2-
> =C2-
> I solved my problem by improving the the source of cool air.=C2- All of t
> he air feeding the carburetors, and cooling the fuel distribution would go
> through the radiator at the left cowling air inlet.=C2- It was sealed wel
> l at top and bottom by its fiberglass mounts and then on the left and
right
> with heavy flexible, carefully cut to fit baffling material that was
glued
> to the radiator sides (solved over-heating during taxiing on hot
days).=C2
> - I removed one side of the baffling material to allow cool fresh air to
> this boiling fuel problem side.=C2- I don't have a boiling fuel problem a
> nymore and fortunately can still taxi on 90+ degree days without ever over
> heating.
> =C2-
> I hope this is of help.=C2- Try to get more cool air to the boiling fuel
> areas.
> =C2-
> Ronko
>
>
> From: "barrynorman@comcast.net" <barrynorman@comcast.net>
> Sent: Wed, September 12, 2012 9:19:14 AM
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>
>
> I had an event this summer that was similiar but I don't think it had
anyth
> ing to do with the fuel pump. It was a fairly warm day and I had taken my
s
> on up for a ride in the Pulsar III and returned after a 30 minute flight
wh
> ere everything was perfectly normal. I shut the plane down for a few
minute
> s while we loaded another passenger and had a very difficult time
restartin
> g the plane. This was not anything new in this situation as I think the
fue
> l starts to boil in the bowls making it difficult to start and get fresh
fu
> el in due to the pressure in the bowls. I finally got it started and it
ran
> rough for a few minutes but cleared up. I taxied to the runway and as I
fe
> d in power for takeoff, the RPM dropped and the engine quit. The plane
refu
> sed to restart so I brought it back to the hanger. I came back the next
day
> and the plane started right up and ran fine. This is a pattern I've
notice
> d=C2-on my plane that appears to be vapor lock on warm days. Once those c
> arb bowls get heat soaked from sitting, the problem shows up.
>
> =C2-
>
> Barry
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
>
> From: "Bob Heiser" <w7ikt@fly-web.us>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:27:00 AM
> Subject: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>
>
> Bob,
> This has some similarities to my accident.=C2- I believe the electric fue
> l pump blocked fuel flow in my plane.=C2- When the fuel pump was removed
> I could not blow thru it in either direction, should have been able to in
t
> he direction of flow.=C2- After shipping the fuel pump to the NTSB it ope
> rated normally.=C2- Do you have a bypass and check valve around the elect
> ric fuel pump?
>
> God Bless
> Bob Heiser W7IKT On 9/10/2012 6:23 PM, Bob Hartunian wrote:
>
>
> =C2-
>
>
> Flew out locally for bkfst on Sunday, past mountains to flatlands and
lande
> d and all was fine. Got back into plane 45 min later and started up fine.
D
> id normal runup and had 5 gal in left tank, full right tank, running off
le
> ft, all was fine.
> Took off normally and did another normal left crosswind turn toward home
an
> d mountains. All indications normal including fuel pressure. Climbing at
50
> 0 fpm, 100 mph, engine around 5100 rpm, when suddenly engine rpm drops to
a
> lmost idle. No shaking or vibes. Immediately kicked on electric fuel pump
b
> ut saw no indications for low fuel pressure, and engine came back
normally.
> I don=99t think the fuel pump really did anything as engine just reg
> ained rpm and flew perfectly all the way home for another 20 min. out over
> desert just in case.
> I pulled cowl and checked things visually but no obvious problems. Don
> =99t have a good explanation for why rpm dropped.
> Bob H
>
>
> __,_._,___
>
>
> arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List p://forums.ma
> tronics.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronic
> s.com/Navigator?Puls=================
> =====
>
> ________________________________ Message 16
> ____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 01:16:06 PM PST US
> From: "HUGH COULTER" <ccoulter@wavecable.com>
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>
>
> On Wed, 12 Sep 2012 08:27:00 -0500
> Bob Heiser <w7ikt@fly-web.us> wrote:
>> Bob,
>> This has some similarities to my accident. I believe
>> the electric fuel pump blocked fuel flow in my plane.
>> When the fuel pump was removed I could not blow thru it
>> in either direction, should have been able to in the
>> direction of flow. After shipping the fuel pump to the
>> NTSB it operated normally. Do you have a bypass and
>> check valve around the electric fuel pump?
>> *God Bless
>> Bob Heiser W7IKT*
>> On 9/10/2012 6:23 PM, Bob Hartunian wrote:
>>>
>>> Flew out locally for bkfst on Sunday, past mountains to
>>> flatlands and
>>> landed and all was fine. Got back into plane 45 min
>>> later and started
>>> up fine. Did normal runup and had 5 gal in left tank,
>>> full right tank,
>>> running off left, all was fine.
>>> Took off normally and did another normal left crosswind
>>> turn toward
>>> home and mountains. All indications normal including
>>> fuel pressure.
>>> Climbing at 500 fpm, 100 mph, engine around 5100 rpm,
>>> when suddenly
>>> engine rpm drops to almost idle. No shaking or vibes.
>>> Immediately
>>> kicked on electric fuel pump but saw no indications for
>>> low fuel
>>> pressure, and engine came back normally. I don't think
>>> the fuel pump
>>> really did anything as engine just regained rpm and flew
>>> perfectly all
>>> the way home for another 20 min. out over desert just in
>>> case.
>>> I pulled cowl and checked things visually but no obvious
>>> problems.
>>> Don't have a good explanation for why rpm dropped.
>>> Bob H
>>>
>>>
>>> __,_._,___
>>
>
> My Pulsar gross weight is 1060.
>
> Clarke
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 17
> ____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 07:13:37 PM PST US
> From: "Keith Palmer" <kdpalmer@mweb.co.za>
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>
> Barry,
> What you must also concider is extraction and because the intake
> is relatively large (on a Pulsar I would say over sized) and ram fed,
> high pressure - the extraction should be at least three and a half times
> larger being low pressure (basic principal) if you don't keep to this
> ratio you build up a high pressure under the cowl (some people have
> reported bulging upper cowls) which restricts the flow.
> Look at the La Presti cowls very small inlets - good size
> extraction ( see a RV12) they don't seem to have a problem.
>
> Food for thought
>
> Keith
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: barrynorman@comcast.net
> To: pulsar-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:48 PM
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>
>
> Thanks for all the helpful tips. When I referred to the manuals, I was
> speaking of the Skystar building manuals. I'm going to redo the fuel
> system to include a fuel return and remounting the fuel pump and a fuel
> pump bypass with check valve. It's looks like I need more cool air under
> the cowling on hot days and I think I have a solution for that. While
> doing some research on it today, I found someone else who had the exact
> same issues in a Rotax 912s powered Dyn Aero MCR01. He had a fuel
> return and had the exact same symptoms as mine. Both planes have very
> tight cowlings. His problem turned out to be overheating of the
> electronic ignition on warm days. Here is the URL
> http://www.pprune.org/archive/index.php/t-271030.html.
>
>
> I have an air scoop on the side of my cowling that I use for a ram air
> setup during the warm months. During the winter I take the ram air off
> and plug the scoop with a tennis ball. If I remove the ball, it will let
> a lot more cool air into the top of the cowling when not using the ram
> air. When this problem occurred this summer I had it plugged without the
> ram system making very warm in the cowling.
>
>
> Thanks to all,
>
> Barry
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
>
> From: "Ron Koval" <ronko@att.net>
> To: pulsar-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 3:12:54 PM
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>
>
> Barry,
>
> Fixing a different fuel and engine run problem, I experienced what you
> refer to as fuel boil with my 582. The side of the engine compartment
> with a gascolator, the carburetors and their fuel lines would get so hot
> on hot days that when I stopped the engine, I could hear the gurgle of
> the fuel at a boil. If I quickly jumped out, opened the cowling, I
> could see a bubble (vacuum) bounce in the fuel line(s). It also seems
> line the hottest thing of my engine, the muffler, sits right below the
> plumbing of the auxiliary fuel pump, gascolator and a major portion of
> the fuel line route, so when the engine is off, the convection of heat
> naturally wants to rise, but gets held in place by the cowling.
>
> I solved my problem by improving the the source of cool air. All of
> the air feeding the carburetors, and cooling the fuel distribution would
> go through the radiator at the left cowling air inlet. It was sealed
> well at top and bottom by its fiberglass mounts and then on the left and
> right with heavy flexible, carefully cut to fit baffling material that
> was glued to the radiator sides (solved over-heating during taxiing on
> hot days). I removed one side of the baffling material to allow cool
> fresh air to this boiling fuel problem side. I don't have a boiling
> fuel problem anymore and fortunately can still taxi on 90+ degree days
> without ever over heating.
>
> I hope this is of help. Try to get more cool air to the boiling fuel
> areas.
>
> Ronko
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----
> From: "barrynorman@comcast.net" <barrynorman@comcast.net>
> To: pulsar-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Wed, September 12, 2012 9:19:14 AM
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>
>
> I had an event this summer that was similiar but I don't think it had
> anything to do with the fuel pump. It was a fairly warm day and I had
> taken my son up for a ride in the Pulsar III and returned after a 30
> minute flight where everything was perfectly normal. I shut the plane
> down for a few minutes while we loaded another passenger and had a very
> difficult time restarting the plane. This was not anything new in this
> situation as I think the fuel starts to boil in the bowls making it
> difficult to start and get fresh fuel in due to the pressure in the
> bowls. I finally got it started and it ran rough for a few minutes but
> cleared up. I taxied to the runway and as I fed in power for takeoff,
> the RPM dropped and the engine quit. The plane refused to restart so I
> brought it back to the hanger. I came back the next day and the plane
> started right up and ran fine. This is a pattern I've noticed on my
> plane that appears to be vapor lock on warm days. Once those carb bowls
> get heat soaked from sitting, the problem shows up.
>
>
> Barry
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
>
> From: "Bob Heiser" <w7ikt@fly-web.us>
> To: pulsar-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:27:00 AM
> Subject: Pulsar-List: Re: [Pulsar-Aviators] 912 Hiccup
>
>
> Bob,
> This has some similarities to my accident. I believe the electric
> fuel pump blocked fuel flow in my plane. When the fuel pump was removed
> I could not blow thru it in either direction, should have been able to
> in the direction of flow. After shipping the fuel pump to the NTSB it
> operated normally. Do you have a bypass and check valve around the
> electric fuel pump?
>
> God Bless
> Bob Heiser W7IKT
> On 9/10/2012 6:23 PM, Bob Hartunian wrote:
>
>
> Flew out locally for bkfst on Sunday, past mountains to flatlands
> and landed and all was fine. Got back into plane 45 min later and
> started up fine. Did normal runup and had 5 gal in left tank, full right
> tank, running off left, all was fine.
> Took off normally and did another normal left crosswind turn toward
> home and mountains. All indications normal including fuel pressure.
> Climbing at 500 fpm, 100 mph, engine around 5100 rpm, when suddenly
> engine rpm drops to almost idle. No shaking or vibes. Immediately kicked
> on electric fuel pump but saw no indications for low fuel pressure, and
> engine came back normally. I don=99t think the fuel pump really
> did anything as engine just regained rpm and flew perfectly all the way
> home for another 20 min. out over desert just in case.
> I pulled cowl and checked things visually but no obvious problems.
> Don=99t have a good explanation for why rpm dropped.
> Bob H
>
>
> __,_._,___
>
>
> arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List
> p://forums.matronics.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Puls===========
> ===========
>
>
> = --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List
> ; http://forums.matronics.com
> blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|