Today's Message Index:
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1. 07:36 AM - Re: Pulsar-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 01/04/13 (Bob Hartunian)
2. 08:10 AM - Re: Re: Pulsar-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 01/04/13 (barrynorman@comcast.net)
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| Subject: | Re: Pulsar-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 01/04/13 |
As I've mentioned several times previously, the stiffness is due to the CTE
differences between glass wing and aluminum ailerons. Commercial aircraft
use a sliding hinge arrangement to allow for the differences. You could
relieve the hinge fit up or lubricate it often to minimize the effect.
Bob H
> From: Pulsar-List Digest Server <pulsar-list@matronics.com>
> Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 23:58:22 -0800
> To: Pulsar-List Digest List <pulsar-list-digest@matronics.com>
> Subject: Pulsar-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 01/04/13
>
> *
>
> =================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> =================================================
>
> Today's complete Pulsar-List Digest can also be found in either of the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
> of the Pulsar-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter=2
> 013-01-04&Archive=Pulsar
>
> Text Version:
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter
> 13-01-04&Archive=Pulsar
>
>
> ===============================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ===============================================
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Pulsar-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Fri 01/04/13: 4
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 05:21 AM - Re: Stiff Aileron (Bill Landucci)
> 2. 09:30 AM - Re: Stiff Aileron (Petra Vomberg)
> 3. 09:56 AM - Re: Stiff Aileron (Larry Wheat)
> 4. 09:56 AM - Re: Stiff Aileron (Tom Gibbons)
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 05:21:52 AM PST US
> From: Bill Landucci <bill.landucci@tds.net>
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Stiff Aileron
>
> I as well have noticed this. The good thing is that it didn't seem to
> get any worse at extreme cold temps. I've registered -20F on several
> flights, and on several occasions, not much warmer than that while doing
> pre-flight control checks. Stiff, but still smooth and responsive - no
> sticking.
>
> The rudder, on the other hand, gets very 'sticky' when warm. Especially
> on hot days during the flight or after landing. I think this is due to
> the nylon bushings in the steel tubes of the rudder pedal assembly. The
> rudder moves smoothly on it's hinges, but the pedal assembly sticks. In
> the series III the water coolant lines (four 1" hoses) run under the
> pedal assembly platform - providing some nice radiant heat.
>
> Bill L
>
>
> On Jan 3, 2013, at 7:42 PM, barrynorman@comcast.net wrote:
>
>> I noticed after an extended flight up to Baltimore in low 20 degree F
> temps that my ailerons took significantly more effort to move than
> normal. After I landed, I checked out the plane and found nothing wrong.
> It appeared to have improved some on the ground with slightly higher
> temps in the low 30s. After thinking about it today I looked up the
> expansion/contraction rate of wood (rear spar) and aluminum (aileron)
> and did a calculation on the length of the aileron and found the
> difference was .020. Bottom line is I was wondering if that's enough to
> create bind in the hinges due to the difference in installed temp and
> the cold air I was flying in. When I think back to when I was testing
> the plane 7 years ago in cold air, they were stiff then also. I'm
> considering removing the ailerons and filing a little more clearance in
> the tabs on the hinges to see if that helps the situation.
>>
>> Any thoughts?
>>
>> Barry
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 09:30:01 AM PST US
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Stiff Aileron
> From: Petra Vomberg <pv.ds@t-online.de>
>
> Barry,
>
> On my Pulsar III, I also have stiff ailerons at below freezing temps. I
> just used an oil on the hinges, the aileron control tube slider bushing, and
> all ball joints thats good for low temps to help the situation.
>
> Regards
>
> Dan
>
>
> Am 04.01.2013 2:42 Uhr schrieb "barrynorman@comcast.net" unter
> <barrynorman@comcast.net>:
>
>> I noticed after an extended flight up to Baltimore in low 20 degree F temps
>> that my ailerons took significantly more effort to move than normal. After I
>> landed, I checked out the plane and found nothing wrong. It appeared to have
>> improved some on the ground with slightly higher temps in the low 30s. After
>> thinking about it today I looked up the expansion/contraction rate of wood
>> (rear spar) and aluminum (aileron) and did a calculation on the length of the
>> aileron and found the difference was .020. Bottom line is I was wondering if
>> that's enough to create bind in the hinges due to the difference in installed
>> temp and the cold air I was flying in. When I think back to when I was
>> testing
>> the plane 7 years ago in cold air, they were stiff then also. I'm considering
>> removing the ailerons and filing a little more clearance in the tabs on the
>> hinges to see if that helps the situation.
>>
>> Any thoughts?
>>
>> Barry
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 3
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 09:56:01 AM PST US
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Stiff Aileron
> From: Larry Wheat <lwheat2083@gmail.com>
>
> I experienced the same thing BUT my problem was the center stick. I
> disconnected the ailerons and the stiffness remained leaving the joystick
> as the culprit. I burnished and polished several times with crocus cloth
> and polishing wheel. After 5-6 tries I finally got it to the right diameter
> for a good fit. The perplexing thing is that it was normal for 50 hrs. All
> of a sudden in 45 degree weather it stiffened up. Some food for thought.
> Don't know if it is the aluminum (which should have contracted if anything)
> or the micarta bearings. Anyway seems to be ok now. Some food for thought,
> Cheers, Larry N852LW
>
> On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 5:42 PM, <barrynorman@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> I noticed after an extended flight up to Baltimore in low 20 degree F
>> temps that my ailerons took significantly more effort to move than normal.
>> After I landed, I checked out the plane and found nothing wrong. It
>> appeared to have improved some on the ground with slightly higher temps in
>> the low 30s. After thinking about it today I looked up the
>> expansion/contraction rate of wood (rear spar) and aluminum (aileron) and
>> did a calculation on the length of the aileron and found the difference was
>> .020. Bottom line is I was wondering if that's enough to create bind in
>> the hinges due to the difference in installed temp and the cold air I was
>> flying in. When I think back to when I was testing the plane 7 years ago in
>> cold air, they were stiff then also. I'm considering removing the ailerons
>> and filing a little more clearance in the tabs on the hinges to see if that
>> helps the situation.
>>
>> Any thoughts?
>>
>> Barry
>>
>> *
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Larry Wheat
>
> ________________________________ Message 4
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 09:56:49 AM PST US
> From: "Tom Gibbons" <TomisFlyingby@comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Stiff Aileron
>
> Seems to me like a great question for Mr. Hartunian! Bob??
> Always wondered about that up here in the REAL cold land!
>
> Tom
> From: barrynorman@comcast.net
> Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2013 7:42 PM
> Subject: Pulsar-List: Stiff Aileron
>
> I noticed after an extended flight up to Baltimore in low 20 degree F
> temps that my ailerons took significantly more effort to move than
> normal. After I landed, I checked out the plane and found nothing wrong.
> It appeared to have improved some on the ground with slightly higher
> temps in the low 30s. After thinking about it today I looked up the
> expansion/contraction rate of wood (rear spar) and aluminum (aileron)
> and did a calculation on the length of the aileron and found the
> difference was .020. Bottom line is I was wondering if that's enough to
> create bind in the hinges due to the difference in installed temp and
> the cold air I was flying in. When I think back to when I was testing
> the plane 7 years ago in cold air, they were stiff then also. I'm
> considering removing the ailerons and filing a little more clearance in
> the tabs on the hinges to see if that helps the situation.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Barry
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Pulsar-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 01/04/13 |
Thanks Bob for confirming my thoughts and for everyone else who responded. I'll
relieve the clearance on the hinges as they are already well lubricated.
Happy New Year!
Thanks,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Hartunian" <bobh5@earthlink.net>
Sent: Saturday, January 5, 2013 10:34:58 AM
Subject: Pulsar-List: Re: Pulsar-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 01/04/13
As I've mentioned several times previously, the stiffness is due to the CTE
differences between glass wing and aluminum ailerons. Commercial aircraft
use a sliding hinge arrangement to allow for the differences. You could
relieve the hinge fit up or lubricate it often to minimize the effect.
Bob H
> From: Pulsar-List Digest Server <pulsar-list@matronics.com>
> Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 23:58:22 -0800
> To: Pulsar-List Digest List <pulsar-list-digest@matronics.com>
> Subject: Pulsar-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 01/04/13
>
> *
>
> ==================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> ==================================================
>
> Today's complete Pulsar-List Digest can also be found in either of the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
> of the Pulsar-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter=2
> 013-01-04&Archive=Pulsar
>
> Text Version:
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter
> 13-01-04&Archive=Pulsar
>
>
> ================================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ================================================
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Pulsar-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Fri 01/04/13: 4
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 05:21 AM - Re: Stiff Aileron (Bill Landucci)
> 2. 09:30 AM - Re: Stiff Aileron (Petra Vomberg)
> 3. 09:56 AM - Re: Stiff Aileron (Larry Wheat)
> 4. 09:56 AM - Re: Stiff Aileron (Tom Gibbons)
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 05:21:52 AM PST US
> From: Bill Landucci <bill.landucci@tds.net>
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Stiff Aileron
>
> I as well have noticed this. The good thing is that it didn't seem to
> get any worse at extreme cold temps. I've registered -20F on several
> flights, and on several occasions, not much warmer than that while doing
> pre-flight control checks. Stiff, but still smooth and responsive - no
> sticking.
>
> The rudder, on the other hand, gets very 'sticky' when warm. Especially
> on hot days during the flight or after landing. I think this is due to
> the nylon bushings in the steel tubes of the rudder pedal assembly. The
> rudder moves smoothly on it's hinges, but the pedal assembly sticks. In
> the series III the water coolant lines (four 1" hoses) run under the
> pedal assembly platform - providing some nice radiant heat.
>
> Bill L
>
>
> On Jan 3, 2013, at 7:42 PM, barrynorman@comcast.net wrote:
>
>> I noticed after an extended flight up to Baltimore in low 20 degree F
> temps that my ailerons took significantly more effort to move than
> normal. After I landed, I checked out the plane and found nothing wrong.
> It appeared to have improved some on the ground with slightly higher
> temps in the low 30s. After thinking about it today I looked up the
> expansion/contraction rate of wood (rear spar) and aluminum (aileron)
> and did a calculation on the length of the aileron and found the
> difference was .020. Bottom line is I was wondering if that's enough to
> create bind in the hinges due to the difference in installed temp and
> the cold air I was flying in. When I think back to when I was testing
> the plane 7 years ago in cold air, they were stiff then also. I'm
> considering removing the ailerons and filing a little more clearance in
> the tabs on the hinges to see if that helps the situation.
>>
>> Any thoughts?
>>
>> Barry
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 09:30:01 AM PST US
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Stiff Aileron
> From: Petra Vomberg <pv.ds@t-online.de>
>
> Barry,
>
> On my Pulsar III, I also have stiff ailerons at below freezing temps. I
> just used an oil on the hinges, the aileron control tube slider bushing, and
> all ball joints thats good for low temps to help the situation.
>
> Regards
>
> Dan
>
>
> Am 04.01.2013 2:42 Uhr schrieb "barrynorman@comcast.net" unter
> <barrynorman@comcast.net>:
>
>> I noticed after an extended flight up to Baltimore in low 20 degree F temps
>> that my ailerons took significantly more effort to move than normal. After I
>> landed, I checked out the plane and found nothing wrong. It appeared to have
>> improved some on the ground with slightly higher temps in the low 30s. After
>> thinking about it today I looked up the expansion/contraction rate of wood
>> (rear spar) and aluminum (aileron) and did a calculation on the length of the
>> aileron and found the difference was .020. Bottom line is I was wondering if
>> that's enough to create bind in the hinges due to the difference in installed
>> temp and the cold air I was flying in. When I think back to when I was
>> testing
>> the plane 7 years ago in cold air, they were stiff then also. I'm considering
>> removing the ailerons and filing a little more clearance in the tabs on the
>> hinges to see if that helps the situation.
>>
>> Any thoughts?
>>
>> Barry
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 3
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 09:56:01 AM PST US
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Stiff Aileron
> From: Larry Wheat <lwheat2083@gmail.com>
>
> I experienced the same thing BUT my problem was the center stick. I
> disconnected the ailerons and the stiffness remained leaving the joystick
> as the culprit. I burnished and polished several times with crocus cloth
> and polishing wheel. After 5-6 tries I finally got it to the right diameter
> for a good fit. The perplexing thing is that it was normal for 50 hrs. All
> of a sudden in 45 degree weather it stiffened up. Some food for thought.
> Don't know if it is the aluminum (which should have contracted if anything)
> or the micarta bearings. Anyway seems to be ok now. Some food for thought,
> Cheers, Larry N852LW
>
> On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 5:42 PM, <barrynorman@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> I noticed after an extended flight up to Baltimore in low 20 degree F
>> temps that my ailerons took significantly more effort to move than normal.
>> After I landed, I checked out the plane and found nothing wrong. It
>> appeared to have improved some on the ground with slightly higher temps in
>> the low 30s. After thinking about it today I looked up the
>> expansion/contraction rate of wood (rear spar) and aluminum (aileron) and
>> did a calculation on the length of the aileron and found the difference was
>> .020. Bottom line is I was wondering if that's enough to create bind in
>> the hinges due to the difference in installed temp and the cold air I was
>> flying in. When I think back to when I was testing the plane 7 years ago in
>> cold air, they were stiff then also. I'm considering removing the ailerons
>> and filing a little more clearance in the tabs on the hinges to see if that
>> helps the situation.
>>
>> Any thoughts?
>>
>> Barry
>>
>> *
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Larry Wheat
>
> ________________________________ Message 4
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 09:56:49 AM PST US
> From: "Tom Gibbons" <TomisFlyingby@comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Stiff Aileron
>
> Seems to me like a great question for Mr. Hartunian! Bob??
> Always wondered about that up here in the REAL cold land!
>
> Tom
> From: barrynorman@comcast.net
> Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2013 7:42 PM
> Subject: Pulsar-List: Stiff Aileron
>
> I noticed after an extended flight up to Baltimore in low 20 degree F
> temps that my ailerons took significantly more effort to move than
> normal. After I landed, I checked out the plane and found nothing wrong.
> It appeared to have improved some on the ground with slightly higher
> temps in the low 30s. After thinking about it today I looked up the
> expansion/contraction rate of wood (rear spar) and aluminum (aileron)
> and did a calculation on the length of the aileron and found the
> difference was .020. Bottom line is I was wondering if that's enough to
> create bind in the hinges due to the difference in installed temp and
> the cold air I was flying in. When I think back to when I was testing
> the plane 7 years ago in cold air, they were stiff then also. I'm
> considering removing the ailerons and filing a little more clearance in
> the tabs on the hinges to see if that helps the situation.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Barry
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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