Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:56 AM - Canyon or Box Canyon Turn ? (Ron Koval)
2. 12:11 PM - Parallel fuel path around Facet pump (Jim Fillman)
3. 12:33 PM - Re: Parallel fuel path around Facet pump (Dennis Adams)
4. 12:42 PM - Re: Parallel fuel path around Facet pump (Ray Pulsar III/3300)
5. 01:19 PM - Re: Parallel fuel path around Facet pump (Sonja Englert)
6. 02:04 PM - Re: Parallel fuel path around Facet pump (Dennis Tubbs)
7. 02:40 PM - Re: Parallel fuel path around Facet pump (Dennis Adams)
8. 05:48 PM - Re: Parallel fuel path around Facet pump (Ray Wilhelm)
9. 08:53 PM - Re: Parallel fuel path around Facet pump (Bob Heiser)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Canyon or Box Canyon Turn ? |
Pulsar friends,
Has anybody performed a canyon or box canyon turn in a Pulsar?
I was taught the maneuver when I had a Grumman Cheetah which was=C2-restr
icted =C2-from acrobat maneuvers or spins but the biannual wings program
instructor indicated that the canyon turn when performed properly produces
no more stress on the aircraft than a stall would.
Note, I don't necessarily need this skill where I fly, but I do remember wh
en I learned how to do it, it was great skill to know.
Best regards,
RonkoN1037L
Message 2
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| Subject: | Parallel fuel path around Facet pump |
Since the fly-in, I've been mulling the issue that caused the loss of Bob
Heiser's Pulsar since all fuel in my plane flows through the Facet auxiliary
fuel pump. In trying to visualize what a parallel path would look like, I
picture Tees on the upstream and downstream sides of the Facet with a check
valve that only allows fuel to flow towards the engine. Am I thinking this
correctly? Can anyone offer a specific recommendation for the check valve?
Is a check valve really needed? I have no fuel return to the tanks.
Jim
N623JF
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Parallel fuel path around Facet pump |
Jim,
A couple of things, the Facet fuel pump requires a fuel filter upstream and t
hey recommend a certain micron size. Unfortunately i can not tell you what i
t is from memory.
I bypassed the pump with a couple of tees and a check valve, no special chec
k valve since it is low pressure.
I bought a manifold and jet from Spruce and re-routed the fuel lines after m
ounting the manifold in the engine compartment. =46rom the manifold and jet
i ran a line to the upside of the fuel selector switch, no need to run the r
eturn to the tank.
The return is primarily to stop vapor lock.
Dennis Adams
Sent from an IPad
On Oct 3, 2017, at 1:10 PM, Jim Fillman <pilot623@gmail.com> wrote:
Since the fly-in, I=99ve been mulling the issue that caused the loss o
f Bob Heiser=99s Pulsar since all fuel in my plane flows through the Fa
cet auxiliary fuel pump. In trying to visualize what a parallel path would l
ook like, I picture Tees on the upstream and downstream sides of the Facet w
ith a check valve that only allows fuel to flow towards the engine. Am I thi
nking this correctly? Can anyone offer a specific recommendation for the che
ck valve? Is a check valve really needed? I have no fuel return to the tanks
.
Jim
N623JF
Message 4
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| Subject: | Parallel fuel path around Facet pump |
That is exactly what I did when I built mine 20 years ago, Jim. At that tim
e there were some Facet pumps that could fail closed. Not so any more with
the newer ones. So they say.
I installed a very low crack pressure check valve in the circuit you descri
bed. 3/8 tube size. I had one from when I worked for a company that made th
em. I am sure you can buy one from ebay. Make sure it is aircraft and not a
uto or industrial. They don=99t make them with very low crack pressur
e (8 =9C water max) and zero leakage in the check direction.
Ray
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: Jim Fillman
Sent: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 12:10 PM
Subject: Pulsar-List: Parallel fuel path around Facet pump
Since the fly-in, I=99ve been mulling the issue that caused the loss
of Bob Heiser=99s Pulsar since all fuel in my plane flows through the
Facet auxiliary fuel pump. In trying to visualize what a parallel path wou
ld look like, I picture Tees on the upstream and downstream sides of the Fa
cet with a check valve that only allows fuel to flow towards the engine. Am
I thinking this correctly? Can anyone offer a specific recommendation for
the check valve? Is a check valve really needed? I have no fuel return to t
he tanks.
Jim
N623JF
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Parallel fuel path around Facet pump |
My Facet fuel pump failed this year, but all that happened was that it did
not pump fuel anymore when turned on. Fuel would still flow through it. I
do not have a bypass.
One note on vapor return lines: they may do exactly what they are called,
return vapor. It would be stupid to return vapor to anywhere but the top of
the tank.
Sonja
On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 12:10 PM, Jim Fillman <pilot623@gmail.com> wrote:
> Since the fly-in, I=99ve been mulling the issue that caused the los
s of Bob
> Heiser=99s Pulsar since all fuel in my plane flows through the Face
t
> auxiliary fuel pump. In trying to visualize what a parallel path would lo
ok
> like, I picture Tees on the upstream and downstream sides of the Facet wi
th
> a check valve that only allows fuel to flow towards the engine. Am I
> thinking this correctly? Can anyone offer a specific recommendation for t
he
> check valve? Is a check valve really needed? I have no fuel return to the
> tanks.
>
>
> Jim
>
> N623JF
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Parallel fuel path around Facet pump |
Thanks Sonja, for sharing your experience here. Other comments had be
concerned what might happen if my Facet pump failed.
On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 1:18 PM, Sonja Englert <paqs345@gmail.com> wrote:
> My Facet fuel pump failed this year, but all that happened was that it di
d
> not pump fuel anymore when turned on. Fuel would still flow through it. I
> do not have a bypass.
>
> One note on vapor return lines: they may do exactly what they are called,
> return vapor. It would be stupid to return vapor to anywhere but the top
of
> the tank.
>
> Sonja
>
> On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 12:10 PM, Jim Fillman <pilot623@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Since the fly-in, I=99ve been mulling the issue that caused the lo
ss of Bob
>> Heiser=99s Pulsar since all fuel in my plane flows through the Fac
et
>> auxiliary fuel pump. In trying to visualize what a parallel path would l
ook
>> like, I picture Tees on the upstream and downstream sides of the Facet w
ith
>> a check valve that only allows fuel to flow towards the engine. Am I
>> thinking this correctly? Can anyone offer a specific recommendation for
the
>> check valve? Is a check valve really needed? I have no fuel return to th
e
>> tanks.
>>
>>
>>
>> Jim
>>
>> N623JF
>>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Parallel fuel path around Facet pump |
Its vapor pressure, no pressure, no vapor!
Sent from an IPad
On Oct 3, 2017, at 3:03 PM, Dennis Tubbs <dennistubbs7@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Sonja, for sharing your experience here. Other comments had be concer
ned what might happen if my Facet pump failed.
> On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 1:18 PM, Sonja Englert <paqs345@gmail.com> wrote:
> My Facet fuel pump failed this year, but all that happened was that it did
not pump fuel anymore when turned on. Fuel would still flow through it. I d
o not have a bypass.
>
> One note on vapor return lines: they may do exactly what they are called, r
eturn vapor. It would be stupid to return vapor to anywhere but the top of t
he tank.
>
> Sonja
>
>> On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 12:10 PM, Jim Fillman <pilot623@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Since the fly-in, I=99ve been mulling the issue that caused the los
s of Bob Heiser=99s Pulsar since all fuel in my plane flows through th
e Facet auxiliary fuel pump. In trying to visualize what a parallel path wou
ld look like, I picture Tees on the upstream and downstream sides of the Fac
et with a check valve that only allows fuel to flow towards the engine. Am I
thinking this correctly? Can anyone offer a specific recommendation for the
check valve? Is a check valve really needed? I have no fuel return to the t
anks.
>>
>>
>>
>> Jim
>>
>> N623JF
>>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Parallel fuel path around Facet pump |
Please be advised that the crack pressure of the ASP check valve is not lis
ted. If it is not less then 8 inches of water, do not use it. The high crac
k pressure of typical Check Valve will cause the engine driven pump to vapo
r lock the first time it is needed at high temps and altitude. Especially w
ith auto gas. You do not want the pump to have to suck against the typical
2 psi crack pressure. Neither do you want it to leak at all in normal opera
tion. It is like your heart with a very bad murmur. The Facet pump will jus
t be putting the fuel back to its own inlet.
Ray
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: Dennis Adams
Sent: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 12:36 PM
Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Parallel fuel path around Facet pump
Jim,
A couple of things, the Facet fuel pump requires a fuel filter upstream and
they recommend a certain micron size. =C2-Unfortunately i can not tell y
ou what it is from memory. =C2-
I bypassed the pump with a couple of tees and a check valve, no special che
ck valve since it is low pressure.
I bought a manifold and jet from Spruce and re-routed the fuel lines after
mounting the manifold in the engine compartment. =C2-From the manifold an
d jet i ran a line to the upside of the fuel selector switch, no need to ru
n the return =C2-to the tank.
The return is primarily to stop vapor lock.
Dennis Adams=C2-
Sent from an IPad=C2-
On Oct 3, 2017, at 1:10 PM, Jim Fillman <pilot623@gmail.com> wrote:
Since the fly-in, I=99ve been mulling the issue that caused the loss
of Bob Heiser=99s Pulsar since all fuel in my plane flows through the
Facet auxiliary fuel pump. In trying to visualize what a parallel path wou
ld look like, I picture Tees on the upstream and downstream sides of the Fa
cet with a check valve that only allows fuel to flow towards the engine. Am
I thinking this correctly? Can anyone offer a specific recommendation for
the check valve? Is a check valve really needed? I have no fuel return to t
he tanks.
=C2-
Jim
N623JF
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Parallel fuel path around Facet pump |
I have seen diagrams just like you describe. That is the way I would do
it if i built or owned another low wing.
On 10/03/2017 02:10 PM, Jim Fillman wrote:
> I picture Tees on the upstream and downstream sides of the Facet with
> a check valve that only allows fuel to flow towards the engine
--
God Bless,
Bob W7IKT & Carol N5CBQ HeiserI
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