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1. 06:37 AM - Re: Re: Pulsar-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 10/03/17 (Dennis Tubbs)
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| Subject: | Re: Pulsar-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 10/03/17 |
Mark, this is useful information. Thanks for sharing your experience.
Dennis Tubbs - Pulsar III - N852LW
On Oct 4, 2017 12:16 PM, "Mark Fox" <saafbusiness@gmail.com> wrote:
> Fyi i have had 3 fuel pump failures in 21 years. All of them allow fuel
> pass through. You only know its not working when on start up listen
> carefully for the line to fill when you turn it on prior to start
>
> On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 12:12 AM Pulsar-List Digest Server <
> pulsar-list@matronics.com> wrote:
>
>> *
>>
>> ========================
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>>
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>> ======================
>> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
>> ======================
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>> Pulsar-List Digest Archive
>> ---
>> Total Messages Posted Tue 10/03/17: 9
>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> Today's Message Index:
>> ----------------------
>>
>> 1. 07:56 AM - Canyon or Box Canyon Turn ? (Ron Koval)
>> 2. 12:11 PM - Parallel fuel path around Facet pump (Jim Fillman)
>> 3. 12:33 PM - Re: Parallel fuel path around Facet pump (Dennis
>> Adams)
>> 4. 12:42 PM - Re: Parallel fuel path around Facet pump (Ray Pulsar
>> III/3300)
>> 5. 01:19 PM - Re: Parallel fuel path around Facet pump (Sonja
>> Englert)
>> 6. 02:04 PM - Re: Parallel fuel path around Facet pump (Dennis
>> Tubbs)
>> 7. 02:40 PM - Re: Parallel fuel path around Facet pump (Dennis
>> Adams)
>> 8. 05:48 PM - Re: Parallel fuel path around Facet pump (Ray Wilhelm)
>> 9. 08:53 PM - Re: Parallel fuel path around Facet pump (Bob Heiser)
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________ Message 1
>> _____________________________________
>>
>>
>> Time: 07:56:52 AM PST US
>> From: Ron Koval <ronko@att.net>
>> Subject: Pulsar-List: Canyon or Box Canyon Turn ?
>>
>> Pulsar friends,
>> Has anybody performed a canyon or box canyon turn in a Pulsar?
>> I was taught the maneuver when I had a Grumman Cheetah which was=C2-restr
>> icted =C2-from acrobat maneuvers or spins but the biannual wings program
>> instructor indicated that the canyon turn when performed properly produces
>> no more stress on the aircraft than a stall would.
>> Note, I don't necessarily need this skill where I fly, but I do remember
>> wh
>> en I learned how to do it, it was great skill to know.
>> Best regards,
>> RonkoN1037L
>>
>> ________________________________ Message 2
>> _____________________________________
>>
>>
>> Time: 12:11:38 PM PST US
>> From: "Jim Fillman" <pilot623@gmail.com>
>> Subject: Pulsar-List: Parallel fuel path around Facet pump
>>
>> Since the fly-in, I've been mulling the issue that caused the loss of Bob
>> Heiser's Pulsar since all fuel in my plane flows through the Facet
>> auxiliary
>> fuel pump. In trying to visualize what a parallel path would look like, I
>> picture Tees on the upstream and downstream sides of the Facet with a
>> check
>> valve that only allows fuel to flow towards the engine. Am I thinking this
>> correctly? Can anyone offer a specific recommendation for the check valve?
>> Is a check valve really needed? I have no fuel return to the tanks.
>>
>>
>> Jim
>>
>> N623JF
>>
>>
>> ________________________________ Message 3
>> _____________________________________
>>
>>
>> Time: 12:33:06 PM PST US
>> From: Dennis Adams <ghf4986@gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Parallel fuel path around Facet pump
>>
>> Jim,
>>
>> A couple of things, the Facet fuel pump requires a fuel filter upstream
>> and t
>> hey recommend a certain micron size. Unfortunately i can not tell you
>> what i
>> t is from memory.
>>
>> I bypassed the pump with a couple of tees and a check valve, no special
>> chec
>> k valve since it is low pressure.
>>
>> I bought a manifold and jet from Spruce and re-routed the fuel lines
>> after m
>> ounting the manifold in the engine compartment. =46rom the manifold and
>> jet
>> i ran a line to the upside of the fuel selector switch, no need to run
>> the r
>> eturn to the tank.
>>
>> The return is primarily to stop vapor lock.
>>
>> Dennis Adams
>>
>> Sent from an IPad
>>
>> On Oct 3, 2017, at 1:10 PM, Jim Fillman <pilot623@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Since the fly-in, I=99ve been mulling the issue that caused the loss o
>> f Bob Heiser=99s Pulsar since all fuel in my plane flows through the Fa
>> cet auxiliary fuel pump. In trying to visualize what a parallel path
>> would l
>> ook like, I picture Tees on the upstream and downstream sides of the
>> Facet w
>> ith a check valve that only allows fuel to flow towards the engine. Am I
>> thi
>> nking this correctly? Can anyone offer a specific recommendation for the
>> che
>> ck valve? Is a check valve really needed? I have no fuel return to the
>> tanks
>> ..
>>
>> Jim
>> N623JF
>>
>> ________________________________ Message 4
>> _____________________________________
>>
>>
>> Time: 12:42:52 PM PST US
>> From: "Ray Pulsar III/3300" <rwilhelm@dc.rr.com>
>> Subject: RE: Pulsar-List: Parallel fuel path around Facet pump
>>
>> That is exactly what I did when I built mine 20 years ago, Jim. At that
>> tim
>> e there were some Facet pumps that could fail closed. Not so any more with
>> the newer ones. So they say.
>> I installed a very low crack pressure check valve in the circuit you
>> descri
>> bed. 3/8 tube size. I had one from when I worked for a company that made
>> th
>> em. I am sure you can buy one from ebay. Make sure it is aircraft and not
>> a
>> uto or industrial. They don=99t make them with very low crack pressur
>> e (8 =9C water max) and zero leakage in the check direction.
>>
>> Ray
>>
>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>
>> From: Jim Fillman
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 12:10 PM
>> Subject: Pulsar-List: Parallel fuel path around Facet pump
>>
>> Since the fly-in, I=99ve been mulling the issue that caused the loss
>> of Bob Heiser=99s Pulsar since all fuel in my plane flows through the
>> Facet auxiliary fuel pump. In trying to visualize what a parallel path
>> wou
>> ld look like, I picture Tees on the upstream and downstream sides of the
>> Fa
>> cet with a check valve that only allows fuel to flow towards the engine.
>> Am
>> I thinking this correctly? Can anyone offer a specific recommendation for
>> the check valve? Is a check valve really needed? I have no fuel return to
>> t
>> he tanks.
>>
>> Jim
>> N623JF
>>
>>
>> ________________________________ Message 5
>> _____________________________________
>>
>>
>> Time: 01:19:22 PM PST US
>> From: Sonja Englert <paqs345@gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Parallel fuel path around Facet pump
>>
>> My Facet fuel pump failed this year, but all that happened was that it did
>> not pump fuel anymore when turned on. Fuel would still flow through it. I
>> do not have a bypass.
>>
>> One note on vapor return lines: they may do exactly what they are called,
>> return vapor. It would be stupid to return vapor to anywhere but the top
>> of
>> the tank.
>>
>> Sonja
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 12:10 PM, Jim Fillman <pilot623@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Since the fly-in, I=99ve been mulling the issue that caused the los
>> s of Bob
>> > Heiser=99s Pulsar since all fuel in my plane flows through the Face
>> t
>> > auxiliary fuel pump. In trying to visualize what a parallel path would
>> lo
>> ok
>> > like, I picture Tees on the upstream and downstream sides of the Facet
>> wi
>> th
>> > a check valve that only allows fuel to flow towards the engine. Am I
>> > thinking this correctly? Can anyone offer a specific recommendation for
>> t
>> he
>> > check valve? Is a check valve really needed? I have no fuel return to
>> the
>> > tanks.
>> >
>> >
>> > Jim
>> >
>> > N623JF
>> >
>>
>> ________________________________ Message 6
>> _____________________________________
>>
>>
>> Time: 02:04:43 PM PST US
>> From: Dennis Tubbs <dennistubbs7@gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Parallel fuel path around Facet pump
>>
>> Thanks Sonja, for sharing your experience here. Other comments had be
>> concerned what might happen if my Facet pump failed.
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 1:18 PM, Sonja Englert <paqs345@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > My Facet fuel pump failed this year, but all that happened was that it
>> di
>> d
>> > not pump fuel anymore when turned on. Fuel would still flow through it.
>> I
>> > do not have a bypass.
>> >
>> > One note on vapor return lines: they may do exactly what they are
>> called,
>> > return vapor. It would be stupid to return vapor to anywhere but the top
>> of
>> > the tank.
>> >
>> > Sonja
>> >
>> > On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 12:10 PM, Jim Fillman <pilot623@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Since the fly-in, I=99ve been mulling the issue that caused the lo
>> ss of Bob
>> >> Heiser=99s Pulsar since all fuel in my plane flows through the Fac
>> et
>> >> auxiliary fuel pump. In trying to visualize what a parallel path would
>> l
>> ook
>> >> like, I picture Tees on the upstream and downstream sides of the Facet
>> w
>> ith
>> >> a check valve that only allows fuel to flow towards the engine. Am I
>> >> thinking this correctly? Can anyone offer a specific recommendation for
>> the
>> >> check valve? Is a check valve really needed? I have no fuel return to
>> th
>> e
>> >> tanks.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Jim
>> >>
>> >> N623JF
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>> ________________________________ Message 7
>> _____________________________________
>>
>>
>> Time: 02:40:44 PM PST US
>> From: Dennis Adams <ghf4986@gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Parallel fuel path around Facet pump
>>
>> Its vapor pressure, no pressure, no vapor!
>>
>> Sent from an IPad
>>
>> On Oct 3, 2017, at 3:03 PM, Dennis Tubbs <dennistubbs7@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks Sonja, for sharing your experience here. Other comments had be
>> concer
>> ned what might happen if my Facet pump failed.
>>
>> > On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 1:18 PM, Sonja Englert <paqs345@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > My Facet fuel pump failed this year, but all that happened was that it
>> did
>> not pump fuel anymore when turned on. Fuel would still flow through it.
>> I d
>> o not have a bypass.
>> >
>> > One note on vapor return lines: they may do exactly what they are
>> called, r
>> eturn vapor. It would be stupid to return vapor to anywhere but the top
>> of t
>> he tank.
>> >
>> > Sonja
>> >
>> >> On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 12:10 PM, Jim Fillman <pilot623@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >> Since the fly-in, I=99ve been mulling the issue that caused the los
>> s of Bob Heiser=99s Pulsar since all fuel in my plane flows through th
>> e Facet auxiliary fuel pump. In trying to visualize what a parallel path
>> wou
>> ld look like, I picture Tees on the upstream and downstream sides of the
>> Fac
>> et with a check valve that only allows fuel to flow towards the engine.
>> Am I
>> thinking this correctly? Can anyone offer a specific recommendation for
>> the
>> check valve? Is a check valve really needed? I have no fuel return to
>> the t
>> anks.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Jim
>> >>
>> >> N623JF
>> >>
>> >
>>
>>
>> ________________________________ Message 8
>> _____________________________________
>>
>>
>> Time: 05:48:12 PM PST US
>> From: Ray Wilhelm <rwilhelm25@gmail.com>
>> Subject: RE: Pulsar-List: Parallel fuel path around Facet pump
>>
>> Please be advised that the crack pressure of the ASP check valve is not
>> lis
>> ted. If it is not less then 8 inches of water, do not use it. The high
>> crac
>> k pressure of typical Check Valve will cause the engine driven pump to
>> vapo
>> r lock the first time it is needed at high temps and altitude. Especially
>> w
>> ith auto gas. You do not want the pump to have to suck against the typical
>> 2 psi crack pressure. Neither do you want it to leak at all in normal
>> opera
>> tion. It is like your heart with a very bad murmur. The Facet pump will
>> jus
>> t be putting the fuel back to its own inlet.
>>
>> Ray
>>
>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>
>> From: Dennis Adams
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 12:36 PM
>> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Parallel fuel path around Facet pump
>>
>> Jim,
>>
>> A couple of things, the Facet fuel pump requires a fuel filter upstream
>> and
>> they recommend a certain micron size. =C2-Unfortunately i can not tell y
>> ou what it is from memory. =C2-
>>
>> I bypassed the pump with a couple of tees and a check valve, no special
>> che
>> ck valve since it is low pressure.
>>
>> I bought a manifold and jet from Spruce and re-routed the fuel lines after
>> mounting the manifold in the engine compartment. =C2-From the manifold an
>> d jet i ran a line to the upside of the fuel selector switch, no need to
>> ru
>> n the return =C2-to the tank.
>>
>> The return is primarily to stop vapor lock.
>>
>> Dennis Adams=C2-
>> Sent from an IPad=C2-
>>
>> On Oct 3, 2017, at 1:10 PM, Jim Fillman <pilot623@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Since the fly-in, I=99ve been mulling the issue that caused the loss
>> of Bob Heiser=99s Pulsar since all fuel in my plane flows through the
>> Facet auxiliary fuel pump. In trying to visualize what a parallel path
>> wou
>> ld look like, I picture Tees on the upstream and downstream sides of the
>> Fa
>> cet with a check valve that only allows fuel to flow towards the engine.
>> Am
>> I thinking this correctly? Can anyone offer a specific recommendation for
>> the check valve? Is a check valve really needed? I have no fuel return to
>> t
>> he tanks.
>> =C2-
>> Jim
>> N623JF
>>
>>
>> ________________________________ Message 9
>> _____________________________________
>>
>>
>> Time: 08:53:32 PM PST US
>> Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Parallel fuel path around Facet pump
>> From: Bob Heiser <w7ikt@fly-web.us>
>>
>>
>> I have seen diagrams just like you describe. That is the way I would do
>> it if i built or owned another low wing.
>>
>>
>> On 10/03/2017 02:10 PM, Jim Fillman wrote:
>> > I picture Tees on the upstream and downstream sides of the Facet with
>> > a check valve that only allows fuel to flow towards the engine
>>
>> --
>> God Bless,
>> Bob W7IKT & Carol N5CBQ HeiserI
>>
>>
>>
>>
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