Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:21 AM - engine burping (Matt Tucciarone)
2. 08:25 AM - Re: engine burping (lucien)
3. 09:31 AM - New flywheel hub for 912 series (Remi Guerner)
4. 09:44 AM - EIS 4000 connections (Dan Billingsley)
5. 10:43 AM - Re: EIS 4000 connections (Craig Payne)
6. 11:25 AM - Re: Re: engine burping (Matt Tucciarone)
7. 11:45 AM - Re: EIS 4000 connections (Richard Girard)
8. 11:49 AM - Re: engine burping (Roger Lee)
9. 11:57 AM - Re: EIS 4000 connections (Dan Billingsley)
10. 11:59 AM - Re: Re: engine burping (Matt Tucciarone)
11. 12:04 PM - Re: Re: engine burping (Richard Girard)
12. 12:58 PM - Re: engine burping (rparigoris)
13. 06:04 PM - Re: engine burping (ronlee)
Message 1
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=EF=BB
I had a guy tell me that his mechanic said that after he flies his
plane, he should run the prop through and burp the engine again just
like before flight. He said if you don=99t do it, oil will collect
in the cylinders. Has anyone been told to do this? On my plane my oil
tank is above the engine. One time, after not flying the plane for about
2 weeks, I took out a spark plug at the lowest point on the engine. Some
oil dripped out. I had not run the prop through first like I would if I
was going to start it. Is any of this a problem? The mechanic said it is
not good for the oil to be there but I didn=99t think it was a
problem if you run the prop through to burping before start.
Any thoughts?
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: engine burping |
[quote="m.tucciarone(at)hotmail.c"]I had a guy tell me that his mechanic said
that after he flies his plane, he should run the prop through and burp the engine
again just like before flight. He said if you dont do it, oil will collect
in the cylinders. Has anyone been told to do this? On my plane my oil tank
is above the engine. One time, after not flying the plane for about 2 weeks,
I took out a spark plug at the lowest point on the engine. Some oil dripped
out. I had not run the prop through first like I would if I was going to start
it. Is any of this a problem? The mechanic said it is not good for the oil
to be there but I didnt think it was a problem if you run the prop through to
burping before start.
Any thoughts?
Usually I don't think enough oil collects in the crankcase for this to happen,
but I guess that could depend on the installation. If it does, I don't see why
not to burp it after the flight.
Is your oil return line in the hole at the lowest point? I.e. if cyls 1-2 are low
when the plane is at rest, the oil return line banjo fitting should be in the
hole in the crankcase nearest the gearbox....
But yeah this is familar with any flat four. My VW's would sometimes collect oil
in the cylinders if I parked it on the side of a hill....
LS
> [b]
--------
LS
Titan II SS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324661#324661
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| Subject: | New flywheel hub for 912 series |
Hi all,
Rotax has recently introduced a new fly wheel hub with lengthened trigger cams
which change the ignition timing during starting. This is described in SI-912-020
R4, section 74-00-00, page 1 and 4. With the new hub, ignition timing during
the starting phase will be 3 degrees after TDC instead of 4 degrees before
TDC. I am very interested in doing this mod on my 912ULS as it should prevent
any possibility of kicking back.
However I am puzzled by the dimensions shown on the drawing on page 4. The drawing
says the old cams are 22 mm long and the new ones are 29 mm long. I measured
the length of the cams on my 6 year old engine: they are 30 mm long! I also
did the maths: the radius of the flywheel cams is 78 mm, so 1 degree rotation
moves the cam edges 1.36 mm. From 4 to 26 degrees, that is 22 degrees difference,
the length should be 1.36x22=29.95. So i believe my hub is good and the
Rotax drawing is wrong.
I have 2 questions:
- to anyone who has access to the back of his engine: could you please remove the
3 screws which hold the plastic cover and measure the developed length of
the cams.
- to any one who has the new flywheel hub: please do the same. According to the
SI, engines fitted with the new flywheel hub start with the following serial
numbers:
912S: from S/N 4,923,847
912ULS and ULSFR: from 6,775,360
Waiting for your answers
Regards
Remi Guerner
Europa F-FGKL
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Attachments:
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http://forums.matronics.com//files/new_fly_wheel_hub_987.jpg
Message 4
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| Subject: | EIS 4000 connections |
Hope everyone is having a great holiday break and enjoying the season!
As I am home this week I'm finishing up some of my last electrical connections
to the 912s. The wiring hasn't been too bad, just tedious as most know.
I am using a Grand Rapids 4000 EIS and would like to tap into those who are
familiar with the CHT connections.( I called GR, but they are enjoying the week
off as well.) The EGT connections are straight forward because each bayonet
probe (that goes into an exhaust pipe) has two wires to plug into. There are 2
CHT probes provided on the 912s at cylinders 2 and 3. My question develops due
to having two CHT wires (per cylinder head) to be connected with onlyone fast-on
connection provided at the engine.
So the question is...How is the connection made? The GR manual was very specific
indicating that the two (dis-similar metal) wires be used to properly allow the
thermocouple to send correct info...
My common sence (sometimes not so common :>) tells me one of the wires goes to
ground...but I don't want to guess at this.
Any help would be appreciated.
Message 5
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| Subject: | EIS 4000 connections |
The Rotax CHT probes are not thermocouples (with a plus and minus lead).
They are resistors whose resistance varies (inversely) with heat (also known
as Negative Temperature Coefficient or NTC probes). One side of the resistor
grounds through the body of the probe to the head. Check the GRT site for
Rotax-specific information or general information on connecting resistive
probes, resistive water temperature senders or NTC probes. The same kind of
probes are used for oil temperature.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan
Billingsley
Sent: Monday, December 27, 2010 9:43 AM
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: EIS 4000 connections
<dan@azshowersolutions.com>
Hope everyone is having a great holiday break and enjoying the season!
As I am home this week I'm finishing up some of my last electrical
connections
to the 912s. The wiring hasn't been too bad, just tedious as most know.
I am using a Grand Rapids 4000 EIS and would like to tap into those who are
familiar with the CHT connections.( I called GR, but they are enjoying the
week
off as well.) The EGT connections are straight forward because each bayonet
probe (that goes into an exhaust pipe) has two wires to plug into. There are
2
CHT probes provided on the 912s at cylinders 2 and 3. My question develops
due
to having two CHT wires (per cylinder head) to be connected with onlyone
fast-on
connection provided at the engine.
So the question is...How is the connection made? The GR manual was very
specific
indicating that the two (dis-similar metal) wires be used to properly allow
the
thermocouple to send correct info...
My common sence (sometimes not so common :>) tells me one of the wires goes
to
ground...but I don't want to guess at this.
Any help would be appreciated.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: engine burping |
Yes,
But is it bad if some oil collects there? As I said, I always burp the
engine before start.
-----Original Message-----
From: lucien
Sent: Monday, December 27, 2010 11:23 AM
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: engine burping
[quote="m.tucciarone(at)hotmail.c"]I had a guy tell me that his mechanic
said that after he flies his plane, he should run the prop through and burp
the engine again just like before flight. He said if you dont do it, oil
will collect in the cylinders. Has anyone been told to do this? On my plane
my oil tank is above the engine. One time, after not flying the plane for
about 2 weeks, I took out a spark plug at the lowest point on the engine.
Some oil dripped out. I had not run the prop through first like I would if
I was going to start it. Is any of this a problem? The mechanic said it is
not good for the oil to be there but I didnt think it was a problem if
you run the prop through to burping before start.
Any thoughts?
Usually I don't think enough oil collects in the crankcase for this to
happen, but I guess that could depend on the installation. If it does, I
don't see why not to burp it after the flight.
Is your oil return line in the hole at the lowest point? I.e. if cyls 1-2
are low when the plane is at rest, the oil return line banjo fitting should
be in the
hole in the crankcase nearest the gearbox....
But yeah this is familar with any flat four. My VW's would sometimes collect
oil in the cylinders if I parked it on the side of a hill....
LS
> [b]
--------
LS
Titan II SS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324661#324661
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: EIS 4000 connections |
Dan, See the Installation Manual, Chapter 21 page 127. The CHT sensor is
grounded through the engine block.
Rick Girard
On Mon, Dec 27, 2010 at 11:42 AM, Dan Billingsley <dan@azshowersolutions.com
> wrote:
> dan@azshowersolutions.com>
>
> Hope everyone is having a great holiday break and enjoying the season!
> As I am home this week I'm finishing up some of my last electrical
> connections
> to the 912s. The wiring hasn't been too bad, just tedious as most know.
> I am using a Grand Rapids 4000 EIS and would like to tap into those who are
> familiar with the CHT connections.( I called GR, but they are enjoying the
> week
> off as well.) The EGT connections are straight forward because each bayonet
> probe (that goes into an exhaust pipe) has two wires to plug into. There
> are 2
> CHT probes provided on the 912s at cylinders 2 and 3. My question develops
> due
> to having two CHT wires (per cylinder head) to be connected with onlyone
> fast-on
> connection provided at the engine.
> So the question is...How is the connection made? The GR manual was very
> specific
> indicating that the two (dis-similar metal) wires be used to properly allow
> the
> thermocouple to send correct info...
> My common sence (sometimes not so common :>) tells me one of the wires goes
> to
> ground...but I don't want to guess at this.
>
> Any help would be appreciated.
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Kolb Mk IIIC
582 Gray head
4.00 C gearbox
3 blade WD
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be unable
to imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong.
- G.K. Chesterton
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: engine burping |
Never ever heard of burping the engine after a flight. Doesn't make any sense.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324693#324693
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: EIS 4000 connections |
Richard,=0A-I have been reading that page, however it does not indicate a
nywhere as to =0Ausing just one wire coming from the EIS...and if so, which
one? Would I just cut =0Athe second one off? The manual is vague.=0A=0A=0A
>=0A>From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng@gmail.com>=0A>To: rotaxengines-list@ma
tronics.com=0A>Sent: Mon, December 27, 2010 12:42:15 PM=0A>Subject: Re: Rot
axEngines-List: EIS 4000 connections=0A>=0A>Dan, See the Installation Manua
l, Chapter 21 page 127. The CHT sensor is =0A>grounded through the engine b
lock. =0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>Rick Girard=0A>=0A>=0A>On Mon, Dec 27, 2010 at 11:42
AM, Dan Billingsley <dan@azshowersolutions.com> =0A>wrote:=0A>=0A>--> Rotax
Engines-List message posted by: Dan Billingsley =0A><dan@azshowersolutions.
com>=0A>>=0A>>Hope everyone is having a great holiday break and enjoying th
e season!=0A>>As I am home this week I'm finishing up some of my last elect
rical connections=0A>>to the 912s. The wiring hasn't been too bad, just ted
ious as most know.=0A>>I am using a Grand Rapids 4000 EIS and would like to
tap into those who are=0A>>familiar with the CHT connections.( I called GR
, but they are enjoying the =0Aweek=0A>>off as well.) The EGT connections a
re straight forward because each bayonet=0A>>probe (that goes into an exhau
st pipe) has two wires to plug into. There are 2=0A>>CHT probes provided on
the 912s at cylinders 2 and 3. My question develops due=0A>>to having two
CHT wires (per cylinder head) to be connected with onlyone =0A>fast-on=0A>>
connection provided at the engine.=0A>>So the question is...How is the conn
ection made? The GR manual was very =0A>specific=0A>>indicating that the tw
o (dis-similar metal) wires be used to properly allow =0Athe=0A>>thermocoup
le to send correct info...=0A>>My common sence (sometimes not so common :>)
tells me one of the wires goes to=0A>>ground...but I don't want to guess a
t this.=0A>>=0A>>Any help would be appreciated.=0A>>=0A>>======
======0A>>="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com=0A>>ooks.com" target
="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com=0A>>et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
=0A>>="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution=0A>>le, List Admin.
=0A>>============0A>>-List" target="_blank">http://
www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List=0A>>========
====0A>>http://forums.matronics.com=0A>>=========
===0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>=0A>=0A>-- =0A>=0A>Zulu Delta=0A>Kolb Mk IIIC
=0A>582 Gray head=0A>4.00 C gearbox=0A>3 blade WD=0A>Thanks, Homer GBYM=0A>
=0A>=0A>It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to
be unable to =0A>imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong.=0A>---G
= =0A>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: engine burping |
?That is exactly what I thought. I was just wondering if anyone else has
heard of this. I try to keep up with procedures. I have been flying this
912s for about 8 years now and never heard that.
-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Lee
Sent: Monday, December 27, 2010 2:46 PM
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: engine burping
Never ever heard of burping the engine after a flight. Doesn't make any
sense.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324693#324693
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: engine burping |
Is the person making this recommendation an A & P by chance? As Roger said,
it doesn't make any sense. The engine has its own motion to "burp" the
engine while it was running. If it were to collect oil in the crankcase tha
t
quickly after shut down, I'd be suspicious of the condition of the engine o
r
its installation.
While it's remote, their is one thing that might make burping a hot engine
dangerous. If there were a hot spark plug, i.e. acting like a glow plug, or
a bit of carbon doing the same, the engine could kick back. Like I said the
chances are remote, but they aren't zero.
Rick Girard
On Mon, Dec 27, 2010 at 1:23 PM, Matt Tucciarone
<m.tucciarone@hotmail.com>wrote:
> m.tucciarone@hotmail.com>
>
> =EF=BBYes,
> But is it bad if some oil collects there? As I said, I always burp the
> engine before start.
>
>
> -----Original Message----- From: lucien
> Sent: Monday, December 27, 2010 11:23 AM
> To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: engine burping
>
> lstavenhagen@hotmail.com>
>
> [quote="m.tucciarone(at)hotmail.c"]I had a guy tell me that his mechani
c
> said that after he flies his plane, he should run the prop through and b
urp
> the engine again just like before flight. He said if you don=C3=A2=82
=AC=84=A2t do it, oil
> will collect in the cylinders. Has anyone been told to do this? On my pl
ane
> my oil tank is above the engine. One time, after not flying the plane fo
r
> about 2 weeks, I took out a spark plug at the lowest point on the engine
.
> Some oil dripped out. I had not run the prop through first like I would
if
> I was going to start it. Is any of this a problem? The mechanic said it
is
> not good for the oil to be there but I didn=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2t thi
nk it was a problem if
> you run the prop through to burping before start.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
>
> Usually I don't think enough oil collects in the crankcase for this to
> happen, but I guess that could depend on the installation. If it does, I
> don't see why not to burp it after the flight.
>
> Is your oil return line in the hole at the lowest point? I.e. if cyls 1-2
> are low when the plane is at rest, the oil return line banjo fitting shou
ld
> be in the
> hole in the crankcase nearest the gearbox....
>
> But yeah this is familar with any flat four. My VW's would sometimes
> collect oil in the cylinders if I parked it on the side of a hill....
>
> LS
>
>
> [b]
>>
>
>
> --------
> LS
> Titan II SS
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324661#324661
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Kolb Mk IIIC
582 Gray head
4.00 C gearbox
3 blade WD
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be unabl
e
to imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong.
- G.K. Chesterton
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: engine burping |
I have heard of folks checking their oil after flight and if OK and as long as
they don't see a big puddle under the plane they go flying without checking the
oil.
Is it possible that's what was meant?
Ron Parigoris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324707#324707
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: engine burping |
I can understand burping the engine say ten minuets after shut down. During this
time the engine cools and the air in the engine shrinks causing a slight vacuum
that can suck oil back into the crankcase. I believe the only reason a person
would do that is to get an accurate oil level check.
--------
Ron Lee
Tucson, Arizona
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324735#324735
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