Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:34 AM - Re: Oil Cooler (Dan Checkoway)
2. 10:34 AM - Cylinder head temps (Jerry Springer)
3. 12:45 PM - Re: RV-List Digest: 31 Msgs - 07/02/04 (Glen Matejcek)
4. 01:22 PM - Re: Cool Collar oil filter cooler. (Chuck Jensen)
5. 05:29 PM - Skyloc fastners (Wayne R. Couture)
6. 05:41 PM - Re: Skyloc fastners (Jeff Point)
7. 06:01 PM - Lycoming O-320, Firewall Forward for Sale. (Stein Bruch)
8. 06:23 PM - Re: Skyloc fastners (Doug Weiler)
9. 07:39 PM - Re: RV-List Digest: 17 Msgs - 07/03/04 (Doug Bell)
10. 07:46 PM - RV-6A gear leg fairing length (thomas a. sargent)
Message 1
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
I'm a little late on this thread, but I switched to the Stewart Warner 8406R
oil cooler recently. It works great. Good enough that I'm considering
installing a controllable cover on it...on my recent trip to the northeast
oil temp rarely got above 174F!
Details on the swapout here: http://www.rvproject.com/20040519.html
do not archive
)_( Dan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Walker" <ron@walker.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Oil Cooler
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Ron Walker" <ron@walker.net>
>
> I've been told my many a builder here in Texas that for the IO-360, go
with
> the Stuart Warner- it's a better design internally that allows more oil to
> evenly pass through the cooling fins. I believe Dan C went with the Vans
> supplied unit at first but has since switched to the SW cooler for this
very
> reason.
>
> Ron
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Ronschreck99@aol.com>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RV-List: Oil Cooler
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: Ronschreck99@aol.com
> >
> > Anybody have experience with the Positech 4215 oil cooler offered by
> Van's?
> > Alternatively, what is the Stuart Warner cooler best suited to an IO-360
> in a
> > souther climate? Thanks for the insight.
> >
> >
> > Ron Schreck
> > RV-8
> > Gold Hill Airpark, NC
> >
> >
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Cylinder head temps |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@earthlink.net>
his was posted on <rec.aviation.homebuilt> newsgroup, thought it might
be of interest to someone here.
Jerry
------begin forward-------
>
>
> X-Originating-IP: [208.49.242.11]
> X-Sender: n76lima@mindspring.com@pop.mindspring.com
> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1
> Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2004 19:52:16 -0500
> To: bd4@northwest-aero.com
> From: Bob Steward <n76lima@mindspring.com>
>
>
> As many of you know, I also participate in the Grumman email list,
and this week while consulting with a well known engine shop over a
problem that they'd been working on for 3 weeks a new discovery was made
that suddenly dropped the CHTs 40+ degrees on engines that were running
too hot.
>
> Here is my message to the Grumman list, and you'll find that the
issue is also known among Expirmental pilots with GEM, JPI and EI engine
monitors.
>
> If you have a digital CHT and have noticed spreads in temp between
cylinders, this information is for you...
>
> The names mentioned in the message are familiar to those in the
Grumman owners group, but probably mean little to anyone here on the
BD-4 List.
> ===================
> On my way back from the Chicago area, picking up a wing panel for a
Tiger,
> I stopped in at Bill & Carol's Precision Engine in KY to put a fresh pair
> of eyes on a plane that had been bedeviling them for the last 3 weeks.
> Bill had called and left a long message on my answering machine, and
I KNEW
> he'd been having fits with a plane that I'd previously worked on, and
knew
> the owner well, so I decided that a 2 hour detour would be a reasonable
> thing to do.
>
> A 74 Traveler with a fresh Precision High Compression STC O-320 was
running
> High CHTs on #2 and #3 (LF and RR) cylinders. They'd top 420 full rich at
> cruise and break 450 at full power and #1 & #4 were in the 370-385 range,
> right where you'd like them to be.
>
> After hearing the full story this morning of all the things that had
been rechecked and swapped with known good test parts on this fresh
engine, I told Bill that I thought the next step in troubleshooting was
to pull 1 pair of cylinders and swap them front and rear to see if the
high temp followed the cylinder or stayed with the same location on the
engine. Of course on the heels of a 3 week thrash with the owner living
in their spare bedroom, he really didn't want to pull the cylinders. I
offered to give him a hand swapping them and figured that before dark
we'd be able to test fly it and have a decision on if there was a
cylinder problem or some odd internal engine problem (cam?) that was
causing the high CHTs.
>
> During the course of visually inspecting the cylinders as currently
installed, and recalling the 3 sets of cylinders that were installed on
Hal Beauchchene's Tiger before similar high CHTs were corrected, it
occurred to me that with Carol's water tight baffles, and all the rest
of the work Bill had done to this engine, that it HAD to be something
outside the items that are normally checked during OH, and something
that Bill's 3 weeks worth of troubleshooting had not detected.
>
> After Hal's engine gave him such fits, and it had been inspected and
instrumented by LoPresti East and ECI in Texas, and ECI had provided a
second set of cylinders that were just as hot as the first, we were
pretty vexed about it. Eventually Hal was able to convince ECI to sell
him a set of the then new Titan cylinders and take the "hot" ones back
in trade. We put the 3rd set on in Hal's hangar in Elba AL, and it ran
cool right out of the box, even during break in, and at that moment we
both knew that the CYLINDERS THEMSELVES can cause high CHTs, even if the
baffling and the rest of the engine are perfect. Not just hotter than
usual, but the kind of high CHT that prevents you from even pulling the
mixture back at all because to lean even the slightest amount will spike
the CHTs into the 450F and rising range while in 130 knots cruise flight
in January OATs.
>
> Upon inspection of the offending cylinders on Hal's engine we noticed
that SOME of the fins around the spark plug were partially obstructed
with casting flashing. Not BAD, just some thin aluminum scrap poking out
the sides of the fins about 1/2 way down. A tool made of a broken off
hack saw blade allowed some guesstimating as to how obstructed some of
the slots were.
>
> The NEW cylinders were the latest revision of the Titan cylinders
with a different alloy and a different fin pattern, so they didn't look
quite the same. And we didn't really follow up on it at the time because
the new cylinders cooled no matter what one did with the red knob, so
Hal was happy.
>
> Coming back to Bill's problem engine, I spotted the SAME flashing
problem on the Genuine Lycoming cylinders Bill always uses (He hates
ECI), as opposed to the 2 sets of ECI cylinders that we'd been through
on Hal's engine. The problem was obviously worse on the #2 and #3
cylinders with much more "flash" filling the slots and limiting the air
flow, though #1 and #4 were somewhat affected.
> Before altering the cylinders, Lycoming Tech support was consulted again,
> Bill had been picking their brain(s) for possible causes. They had
never HEARD of such a thing as casting flash in between the fins
restricting the air flow.
>
> After using a set of needle files to file the flash off of the fins
(6 fins, vertical around the plugs), the owner and I flew the plane at
2500' and 5000' at 2650 RPM leaned to roughness and the enriched until
smooth for a 30 min test flight. We discovered a 43 degree drop in CHT
on #2 from the multiple previous test flights before the fin clean up.
#3 which hadn't been as vigorously filed and cleaned showed a 16 degree
drop.
>
> WOW! From 420 to 377 in one 45 minute operation!
>
> At this very minute we are filing and smoothing the flash on ALL the
cylinders to make the fins straight with no casting flash protruding and
to open up the fins that had had little if any opening between them.
Comparing several cylinders that Bill had lying around, some from the
70's, we were able to establish what "normal" fins should look like and
see that there should be NO core shift or parting line flash blocking
the 6 fins airflow.
>
> Bill happened to have another customer's Cheetah engine in the shop
and it was back for a warranty replacement of three jugs for excess
valve guide wear in only a couple hundred hours. 3 of the cylinders were
on the bench, and 1 which had showed acceptable wear was remaining on
the plane. After examination of the 3 "bad" cylinders that Lycoming had
already sent replacements for, and then the 1 "good" one that had passed
the SB-388B wobble test, the exact same flash was found to correspond to
each of the cylinders that were "bad". The owner reported being unable
to keep them cool in a 105 knot climb at full rich based on engine
monitor data.
>
> The one "good" cylinder was clear through all the fins. We were able
to eyeball a good view straight through all 6 fins to see the floor. So
that supported the hypothesis, flashing = high CHT and rapidly wearing
valve guides.
>
> In another hour we'll go for a second test flight and see what the
additional clean up does for us. If #3 drops to a similar temp like #2
did after the clean up, and possibly #1 and #4 go lower too, you may
hear the shout all the way from Owensboro!
>
> So there you go: Check your cylinders on the 6 vertical fins between
the spark plug and the valve cover. There should be 0.060" - 0.090"
clearance on both sides of the fins. Look down between the fins about
1.5" for the parting line of the casting molds and you'll see the
flashing of which I'm speaking. In the diagonal corners 90 degrees to
the fins we found openings ranging from NONE to 1/8" holes that appeared
to have been drilled post casting to a distorted "Y" at the outboard
corner and a 5/8" long slot at the inboard corner.
>
> This explains why some planes in the fleet DON'T have CHT problems,
and some DO, and some do only on 1 or 2 cylinders. It may be that being
blessed with 4 good cylinders lets you brag to your buddies about your
low CHTs, and they might never be able to achieve those readings if
their cylinders have the flashing at the mold parting line!
>
> Grumman owners rejoice, a persistent problem, oft blamed on shoddy
maintenance of the baffles has been tracked down on a plane that may
well be among the best instrumented and certainly one of the most
obsessed over and well baffled in the fleet. And you know if Bill and I
are happy with it (and you know how picky we can both be), that everyone
else should be pleased with the results, too.
> ===============
>
> And the follow up message after the second test flight was even
better with very tight groupings of the CHTs and the ability to lean at
will without over heating the engine.
>
> ==============
> A couple of folks have already run out to their aircraft and
inspected for flashing on the hot cylinders they've been battling. And
guess what? They have the exact situation described earlier on the
engine Bill had just completed. Both were Genuine Lycoming cylinders and
1 was on a New Tiger.
>
> It was very difficult to get pictures down in the fins, the camera
wanted to focus on the tops of the fins (damn autofocus).
>
> I've got some cylinders here that I will use my camera that has too
many buttons on it to manually focus down into the fins and get some
pictures. I'll post the URL as soon as I get them up.
>
> We did go out for that second flight after cleaning out the fins on
ALL the cylinders, and the CHTs grouped very tightly and the temps at
5,000' DA and 2700 RPM leaned to roughness and then smoothed back out
(on the high side of 80% power), indicating 130 mph (blunt nosed
Traveler, TAS ~143) OAT 64 F.
>
> 385-390 on 3 of them, and the 4th one has a "combo" CHT to share the
hole with the LASAR ignition (deactivated for testing) and we were
advised by JPI that it "reads 20 degrees low", was showing 352. But its
been consistently low in all the testing.
>
> So now with the CHTs tightly grouped and able to lean at will and run
high power settings, the only thing left to prove is that this cleaning
out of the fins will extend the valve guide life. Check back next year
for that proof, as the owner has made the suggestion that he is going to
put 4-500 hours on it in 12 months, so we'll have some idea how the
guides are doing next year.
>
> In a 90 knot climb we'd see the CHT on 1 cylinder (#3 tha had been
420 in cruise and sneaking past 450 in a climb earlier) tickle the 400
number but never higher than 404. As soon as the nose was pushed over
the temps went right down.
> =============
>
> A word of caution. I'm NOT suggesting you take files or broken hack
saw blades to your cylinders. The discovery phase is here, the answer
to how you in the field can correct this matter remains to be seen.
hopefully with the continued discussion between myself and Lycoming and
the input from those that have digital gauges and have eyeballed the
fins, we can build enough data to move the giant Textron corporation off
dead center and get a Service bulletin issued that gives approved limits
for filing to offers exchange cylinders for those with defective ones.
>
> Don't put a big sticker on your plane that says "Experimental" just
yet. <G>
>
> I'll post the URL for the web site once I get the pictures and
drawings completed.
>
> Bob Steward A&P IA
> Birmingham, AL
> BD-4 Serial #1
> http://www.mindspring.com/~n76lima/n624bd/
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> bd4 mailing list
> bd4@northwest-aero.com
> http://northwest-aero.com/mailman/listinfo/bd4
-----end forward------
Message 3
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| Subject: | RE: RV-List Digest: 31 Msgs - 07/02/04 |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Glen Matejcek" <aerobubba@earthlink.net>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Pete Howell" <pete.howell@gecko-group.com>
>
>
> Hello,
>
> I am ready to begin work on my RV-9 QB fuse and will require a
> stand/cradle/dolly that will enable me to move it about the garage on
> wheels. Has anyone built something like this that they can
> recommend?
>
> Is it wise to tie into the wing spar wood blocks?
>
> TIA
>
> Pete
>
Hi Pete-
As my shop is long and narrow, I needed some sort of 'wiggle' capability
for my 8 QB. I got a set of industrial castors out of trade a plane for
about $25 and mounted them to a 1 x 6 on the bottom of the wooden stub
spars that came in the fuse. Works great! makes access to the innards
easy (close to the floor) and moving it around is a snap. I have harbor
freight auto dollies for when it's on it's gear legs. Another good deal.
The only caveat I'm aware of is that I ended up clamping the top of the
stub spar together as it had a tendency to delaminate over time.
FWIW
gm
Message 4
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| Subject: | Cool Collar oil filter cooler. |
--> RV-List message posted by: Chuck Jensen <cjensen@dts9000.com>
Oil is certainly soluble in water. At 100F, oil has a solubility limit in
water of approx. 10ppm. Greater than that, and it starts to coalesce and
will be evident as a sheen. Despite the oil-water chemistry that argues
against it, I suspect the reverse is also true.
When you exceed the solubility limits and the mixture is agitated
aggressively, you will get the milky emulsion that we sometimes associate
with oil-water mixtures.
Chuck
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Hopperdhh@aol.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Cool Collar oil filter cooler.
--> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com
Fellow lubricators,
It is my understanding that water is NOT soluble in oil. Oil is covalent
and
water is bipolar, kind of opposites in chemistry. They will mix if whipped,
but are not really chemically combined and will separate as soon as the
whipping is over. Of course water is more dense than oil, and will go to
the
bottom.
I think that 180 degrees F. is the ideal oil temperature. The oil needs to
be hot enough to circulate well. That is, to flow back to the sump to be
used
again. That is what damages an engine when it is run hard before warming
up,
the sump is sucked dry and no oil gets to the bearings. If the oil gets too
hot, it loses viscosity and cannot prevent metal to metal contact.
Water will boil off as the oil hits the bottom of the pistons which are
about
40 or 50 degrees hotter than the average oil temperature. So it is not
really necessary to get the indicated oil temperature above the boiling
point of
water.
All of this, of coarse, is IMHO. Hit me.
Dan Hopper
RV-7A (Got it real light today in taxi testing!)
n a message dated 6/22/04 8:18:23 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
rv_8pilot@hotmail.com writes:
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "RV_8 Pilot" <rv_8pilot@hotmail.com>
>
> I believe the water in the oil issue is more complex than the boiling
point
> of water at a given elevation. It's a dynamics of soluability issue
> (Henry's Law?). I don't have the specifics on hand for water in oil, but
I
> bet SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) or (Aero)Shell does.
>
> When you dissolve one liquid in another, the resulting mixture takes on
> different physical properties. As far as getting the water out, there'll
> always be some water dissolved in the oil. How much is too much (10, 100,
> 1000 ppm)? Again, try asking someone like SAE or Shell. I'd think for
> lubricity, up to saturation (free water) would be OK. Now corrosion may
be
> a different story.
>
> Bottom line - I don't believe boiling point of water matters for dissolved
> water in oil.
>
> As for the temp issue, I'd go to the two groups above for technical backup
-
>
> SAE and Shell. Couple of clicks on the Internet and I got a Shell
contacts
> form.
>
> http://www.shell.com/home/Framework?siteId=aviation-en&
>
FC2=/aviation-en/html/iwgen/leftnavs/zzz_lhn10_0_0.html&FC3=/aviation-en/htm
l/iwgen/contact.html
>
> Bryan Jones -8
> www.LoneStarSquadron.com
> Houston, Texas
>
>
> >FWIW...
> >
> >Water boils at LESS than 212 degrees at altitude.
> >
> >For example - at 82,500 feet on a standard day...
> >H20 [water] boils at approximately 70 degrees. <g>
> >
> >SOB - Sweet Old Bob
> >
> >Yeah, I know. That's why my post never mentioned a temp above 210 ;-) I
> >also know the oil temps are slightl;y higher in the bowels of the
crankcase
>
> >than at the oil temp sensor in the hi-pressure screen housing. But much
of
>
> >the flying I do is around the patch at 2000 MSL or less, so my question
> >still stands: what temps are we shooting for to get the job done and be
> >nice to the oil?
> >
> >-BB do not archive
>
>
Message 5
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Wayne R. Couture" <commando@cox-internet.com>
I just received the Skyloc fastener kit from "Skybolt" and in the instructions
it says that they used 2024T3 .064 for support strips although others have
used thinner strips with good results. .064 seems pretty thick to me. I'd like
to find out what others have used?
Wayne Couture
RV-8A
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Skyloc fastners |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Point <jpoint@mindspring.com>
I used .064 per the plans. It does seem to be a bit thick, but it
hasn't cracked yet and I have no fear that it ever will. I cut it down
to 2 foot strips of 064 along the perimeter, much easier to fit than
longer strips.
If anybody is on the fence about using Skybolts, they are worth their
weight in gold!
Jeff Point
RV-6 70 hours
Milwaukee WI
Wayne R. Couture wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Wayne R. Couture" <commando@cox-internet.com>
>
> I just received the Skyloc fastener kit from "Skybolt" and in the instructions
it says that they used 2024T3 .064 for support strips although others have
used thinner strips with good results. .064 seems pretty thick to me. I'd like
to find out what others have used?
>
>Wayne Couture
>RV-8A
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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|
"Rv8-List" <rv8-list@matronics.com>, "Rv7-List" <rv7-list@matronics.com>,
"Rv6-List" <rv6-list@matronics.com>
| Subject: | Lycoming O-320, Firewall Forward for Sale. |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
Hi Guys/Gals,
Just wanted to let everyone know that I'm advertising my newely overhauled
O-320 (150hp-can burn MOGAS) for sale. Details & photos can be found at:
http://www.steinair.com/engine.htm The Engine is currently installed &
flying on my new 2004 RV6. It has 7hrs SMOH, and I'm selling then entire
firewall forward package, including sensenich prop & accessories. Why am I
selling it?? Well, my other RV6 has an O-360 on it, so I've become spoiled,
and have decided to hang a 360 on this one as well. Engine was overhauled
by me with nearly new everything. It's currently flying, so if you want to
hear/see it run, drop me a line. Price is $19,000.00 for everything
firewall forward including Sensenich prop/spinner, etc... The detailed list
of all accessories & photos, etc.. is available on my website above.
The engine currently has 7 hrs on it, runs like a top. EGT's/CHT's are fine,
as is oil temp/pressure. It scoots my RV6 along quite nicly at 185-190mph,
but I miss that extra bang on takeoff. Flying out of a short grass strip in
these hot summer days with a FP prop is making my decision for me. Time will
be increasing as I fly it, and it will be sold first come/first serve.
Cheers,
Stein Bruch
RV6's, Minneapolis.
http://www.steinair.com
Do Not Archive
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Skyloc fastners |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Weiler" <dweiler@nomadwi.com>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Point <jpoint@mindspring.com>
>
> I used .064 per the plans. It does seem to be a bit thick, but it
> hasn't cracked yet and I have no fear that it ever will. I cut it down
> to 2 foot strips of 064 along the perimeter, much easier to fit than
> longer strips.
>
> If anybody is on the fence about using Skybolts, they are worth their
> weight in gold!
I used .040 in my RV-4. No cracks after 120 hours.
Doug Weiler
22DW in paint shop at Razor's Edge
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: RV-List Digest: 17 Msgs - 07/03/04 |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Bell" <DBell@ManisteeNational.com>
Lucky,
We are getting our 8 inspected on Wed in Cadillac but from the sounds of
your local number prefix...you must be staying in the southern michigan
area....We are about 3-4 hours north of you but will be around the hanger
each evening for the next three days.
Doug Bell
Manistee MI
8QB
Getting inspected
----- Original Message -----
From: "RV-List Digest Server" <rv-list-digest@matronics.com>
Subject: RV-List Digest: 17 Msgs - 07/03/04
> *
>
> ==================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> ==================================================
>
> Today's complete RV-List Digest can be also be found in either
> of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest
> formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked
> Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII
> version of the RV-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic
> text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list/Digest.RV-List.2004-07-03.html
>
> Text Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list/Digest.RV-List.2004-07-03.txt
>
>
> ================================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ================================================
>
>
> RV-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Sat 07/03/04: 17
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 01:18 AM - Re: ignition problem (Bob 1)
> 2. 01:57 AM - Re: ignition problem (Jim Sears)
> 3. 07:15 AM - Re: ignition problem (Scott Bilinski)
> 4. 07:18 AM - Re: ignition problem (Scott Bilinski)
> 5. 07:26 AM - RV-6 Drawings (knology)
> 6. 08:27 AM - Re: ignition problem (Kyle Boatright)
> 7. 09:17 AM - Mags v EI (John)
> 8. 09:19 AM - Re: ignition problem (Bob 1)
> 9. 09:58 AM - Re: ignition problem (Shemp)
> 10. 10:22 AM - Re: ignition problem (Skylor Piper)
> 11. 01:42 PM - Builder's Groups (Tedd McHenry)
> 12. 02:55 PM - Re: RV-6 Drawings (Dan DeNeal)
> 13. 05:41 PM - michigan flyers/builders around? (RV8ter@aol.com)
> 14. 07:14 PM - Re: Hot start (was: Ignition problem) (Dave Bristol)
> 15. 07:34 PM - Re: Hot start (was: Ignition problem) (Dan Checkoway)
> 16. 08:47 PM - Re: Builder's Groups (Are Barstad)
> 17. 09:53 PM - RV-List Fly-in EVERYONE WELCOME
(smoothweasel@juno.com)
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 01:18:09 AM PST US
> From: "Bob 1" <rv3a@comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: ignition problem
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Bob 1" <rv3a@comcast.net>
>
> > The "IO" factor plays a big part in the equation, especially with the
AFP
> > injection and matched injectors like Scott's talking about.
> >
> > You can pull that puppy LOP and it'll run smooth and cool...burning a
heck
> > of a lot less fuel than any "O" engine will at the same MP/RPM setting,
> > since the carb'd setup is pretty much forced to run ROP.
> >
> > do not archive
> > )_( Dan
> > RV-7 N714D
> > http://www.rvproject.com
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> Now your hitting the nail on the head !!!!!!
>
> *IF* one is willing to sacrifice cruise speed flying at 50-55% power...
> *IF* one has F.I. with matched injectors....
> Then one can run LOP for x.x fuel savings with E.I.
>
> At 70-75% power, meaningful savings are not gonna be
> there, with or without the LOP techniques. Further....
> I've seen more than one engine trashed by hotshots
> running LOP and going fast at the same time.
> You can buy a lot of gas for the price of an engine.
>
> Anyhow...
> I'm a poor magneto jockey with a carb and a small retirement check
> Auto fuel at 8 gph is my game most of the time. Beer budget all the way.
>
> No way can I afford or justify FI, Gami injectors and two EI to save a
buck
> or two an hour running LOP if I was willing to SLOW DOWN in the first
place.
> Chances are excellent I won't fly enough to recover the costs through any
> potential fuel savings. For me, I have an RV to GO FAST. No way am I gonna
> slow down to 55% LOP power, even if I had the money to buy all the toys,
> bells and whistles.
>
> YMMV....
> Literally.
>
> Bob
>
> Do not archive
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 01:57:52 AM PST US
> From: Jim Sears <sears@searnet.com>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: ignition problem
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Jim Sears <sears@searnet.com>
>
>
> > Anyhow...
> > I'm a poor magneto jockey with a carb and a small retirement check
> > Auto fuel at 8 gph is my game most of the time. Beer budget all the way.
> >
>
> Bob, that's how I've operated for a long time. Even before I was retired,
I
> ran auto gas in my engines at about 8 gallons per hour. At .4 gallons
> savings per hour at the current $1.65 per gallon for Shell auto gas, I
could
> never use fuel savings to justify EI. Like Gary, I've had good luck with
my
> mags. I never replaced a mag in the C172 I had. I did replace both mags
in
> the Cheetah I had; but, both were well past their TBOs for throw aways.
The
> Slicks I have now are fairly new; so, I expect a long time before
> replacement, if ever by me.
>
> > No way can I afford or justify FI, Gami injectors and two EI to save a
> buck
> > or two an hour running LOP if I was willing to SLOW DOWN in the first
> place.
> > Chances are excellent I won't fly enough to recover the costs through
any
> > potential fuel savings. For me, I have an RV to GO FAST. No way am I
gonna
> > slow down to 55% LOP power, even if I had the money to buy all the toys,
> > bells and whistles.
> >
>
> Same here.
>
> Granted, it's good that we have builders who can justify EI to themselves.
> Eventually, the cost may come down to that of mags; and, some of the
> potential problems of installation may be eliminated by better
instructions,
> etc. Then, and only then, can I justify EI to myself. One side benefit
of
> having mags is that about any A&P/IA worth his/her salt is going to know
and
> understand mags. My thinking is that EI is fairly new to most of our
> aircraft; so, they may not be so privy to that. If I'm paying someone to
> fix an ignition problem, I'd rather they work on something they know so
that
> the time to repair is less. That equals a smaller bill.
>
> We guys on a tight budget do well to afford a simple airplane; so, we have
> to let those with more loose change experiment with the newer toys. That
> eventually gets the prices down, hopefully, so that us poorer guys can
> benefit. I'd say EI, glass panels, etc. will be standard equipment on
most
> aircraft, one day. Right now, I'm going to have to spend my money on
those
> things that I can depend on working for lesser dollars. Mags and good
> quality steam gauges fill that bill. I can use the savings from
purchasing
> those to help make up for that .4 gallons per hour I'll not have by using
> mags. Of course, I guess one could go back to work to afford those nicer
> things. Yeah, sure. :-)
>
> Jim Sears in KY
> RV-6A N198JS (Scooter)
> RV-7A #70317
> EAA Tech Counselor
> EAA Flight Advisor
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 3
_____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 07:15:21 AM PST US
> From: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: ignition problem
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski
<bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>
> All I can say is 160 kts true 7GPH in a RV-8a, IO-360 180 HP. Those
numbers
> have been verified.
>
> At 03:25 PM 7/2/2004 -0700, you wrote:
> >--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@earthlink.net>
> >
> >Yes, and I can burn the same or less than a friend with a O-320 and me
> >with a O-360, with mags,depends on many things, such as how well
> >an airplane is built, power settings, props, altitude etc. You are not
> >saving 1.5 gallons an hour with EI. I also have friends with
> >them and they say no fuel saving at all.
> >
> >Jerry
> >
> >Scott Bilinski wrote:
> >
> > >--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski
> > <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
> > >
> > >I flew with a friend, him, a stock O-360. Me an IO-360 with dual EI and
> > >injectors matched. Him and RV-8 me an RV-8a. I use 1.5 gallons less per
> > hour.
> > >
> > >
> > >At 12:47 PM 7/2/2004 -0500, you wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >>--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob 1" <rv3a@comcast.net>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>--> RV-List message posted by: Lwfeatherston@aol.com
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>I have no
> > >>>scientific proof, but it is my sincere opinion that Klaus was
absolutely
> > >>>correct when he said I would save at least one gallon of fuel per
hour,
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>and never
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>have to worry about a mag going bad before it's 250 hr overhaul at
about
> > >>>$350 per.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>When you have SCIENTIFIC PROOF
> > >>to back up sincere opinion.....
> > >>please post.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>Bob - from the Show Me state
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >Scott Bilinski
> > >Eng dept 305
> > >Phone (858) 657-2536
> > >Pager (858) 502-5190
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> Scott Bilinski
> Eng dept 305
> Phone (858) 657-2536
> Pager (858) 502-5190
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 4
_____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 07:18:55 AM PST US
> From: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: ignition problem
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski
<bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>
>
> >"Look at other posts to prove that you will NOT save any fuel with the
EI."
>
>
> This does not make sense, a more powerful ignition can ignite a leaner
> mixture than mags can.
>
>
> Scott Bilinski
> Eng dept 305
> Phone (858) 657-2536
> Pager (858) 502-5190
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 5
_____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 07:26:49 AM PST US
> From: "knology" <edchristian@knology.net>
> Subject: RV-List: RV-6 Drawings
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "knology" <edchristian@knology.net>
>
> Does anybody have some good drawings of 6 so I can figure out paint
scheme?
>
>
> Downloaded DWG files from here, but cannot find anything to convert them
=96
> do not have CAD software (XP)
>
>
> HYPERLINK
> "http://www.vansairforce.net/faq.htm"http://www.vansairforce.net/faq.htm
>
>
> Need something that works in paint or graphics program, JPEG, PNG
>
>
> Ed
>
>
> Do Not Archive
>
>
> ---
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 6
_____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 08:27:58 AM PST US
> From: "Kyle Boatright" <kboatright1@comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: ignition problem
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Kyle Boatright" <kboatright1@comcast.net>
>
> Also, don't forget that *appropriate* timing advance can increase power.
> Mag's are typically set at 25 degrees of advance, which is a good
> compromise. Electronic ignitions are not limited to one set-point.
>
> Also, the CAFE foundation found that Electronic ignitions can deliver
better
> performance. This link will take you to their research page:
>
> http://www.cafefoundation.org/research.htm
>
> I think the real answer is that EI's do provide better performance,
whether
> you want power or fuel efficiency. They probably don't pay for themselves
> which makes them like almost anything else in personal (?) aviation.
>
> The other issues to address are reliability and servicability. My EI
failed
> at 25 hours, but has been flawless in 225 hours since. The problem is
that
> the parts are not easy to come by when compared to mag's, and this can
leave
> you up the proverbial creek if an EI failure catches you away from home...
>
> KB
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Scott Bilinski" <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: ignition problem
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski
> <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
> >
> >
> > >"Look at other posts to prove that you will NOT save any fuel with the
> EI."
> >
> >
> > This does not make sense, a more powerful ignition can ignite a leaner
> > mixture than mags can.
> >
> >
> > Scott Bilinski
> > Eng dept 305
> > Phone (858) 657-2536
> > Pager (858) 502-5190
> >
> >
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 7
_____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 09:17:53 AM PST US
> From: "John" <n1cxo320@salidaco.com>
> Subject: RV-List: Mags v EI
> 0.3 FROM_HAS_MIXED_NUMS From: contains numbers mixed in with
letters
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "John" <n1cxo320@salidaco.com>
>
> If you're happy with mags, fine ! If you like EI, go for it.
>
> I went to dual Lightspeed EI on the 160HP RV6A and here is what I
found...I
> don't care about any potential fuel savings, I just like electronic
> thingies...
>
> Flying always at 9,500 to 11,500 (airport is at 7,489ft) I see for several
> years of flying these figures:
>
>
> Matronics fuel flow meter shows 6.1 GPH
> RPM at 2,300 , Manifold 'pressure' 23-in, power around 45%
> TAS 175MPH in cruise, day in, and day out.
> Top Speed, wood prop, max rpm 2,550, 205MPH TAS
> Leaning aided by oxygen sensor in exhaust stack (Av-Mix unit)
>
>
> This looks like another 'primer war' beginning !! Hooray !
>
> John at Salida, CO
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 8
_____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 09:19:01 AM PST US
> From: "Bob 1" <rv3a@comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: ignition problem
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Bob 1" <rv3a@comcast.net>
>
> > >"Look at other posts to prove that you will NOT save any fuel with the
> EI."
> >
> >
> > This does not make sense, a more powerful ignition can ignite a leaner
> > mixture than mags can.
> >
> >
> > Scott Bilinski
> > Eng dept 305
> > Phone (858) 657-2536
> > Pager (858) 502-5190
>
> =====================================
>
> There is far more to the story than just being able to
> ignite a leaner mixture. The factors as I understand them,
> are as follows...
>
> E.I. without running in LOP mode saves no fuel.
> LOP cannot be run SMOOTHLY without precise F.I....
> i.e., that calls for calibrated injectors.... i.e. GAMI.
>
> To keep an engine from frying at LOP with the special goodies...
> one needs to remain at low power settings, i.e., below 65 % power.
>
> For all this expense and trouble -
> good luck SCIENTIFICALLY proving
> more than .5 gph per hour fuel savings.
>
> Lastly...
> I THINK I remember reading that Lycoming does
> not recommend or endorse this kind of LOP jazz.
> I.E., it voids a Lycoming factory warranty.
> Could be wrong.
>
>
> Bob
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 9
_____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 09:58:19 AM PST US
> From: "Shemp" <shempdowling@earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: ignition problem
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Shemp" <shempdowling@earthlink.net>
>
> Yeah but ei is cool.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Sears" <sears@searnet.com>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: ignition problem
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: Jim Sears <sears@searnet.com>
> >
> >
> > > Anyhow...
> > > I'm a poor magneto jockey with a carb and a small retirement check
> > > Auto fuel at 8 gph is my game most of the time. Beer budget all the
way.
> > >
> >
> > Bob, that's how I've operated for a long time. Even before I was
retired,
> I
> > ran auto gas in my engines at about 8 gallons per hour. At .4 gallons
> > savings per hour at the current $1.65 per gallon for Shell auto gas, I
> could
> > never use fuel savings to justify EI. Like Gary, I've had good luck
with
> my
> > mags. I never replaced a mag in the C172 I had. I did replace both
mags
> in
> > the Cheetah I had; but, both were well past their TBOs for throw aways.
> The
> > Slicks I have now are fairly new; so, I expect a long time before
> > replacement, if ever by me.
> >
> > > No way can I afford or justify FI, Gami injectors and two EI to save a
> > buck
> > > or two an hour running LOP if I was willing to SLOW DOWN in the first
> > place.
> > > Chances are excellent I won't fly enough to recover the costs through
> any
> > > potential fuel savings. For me, I have an RV to GO FAST. No way am I
> gonna
> > > slow down to 55% LOP power, even if I had the money to buy all the
toys,
> > > bells and whistles.
> > >
> >
> > Same here.
> >
> > Granted, it's good that we have builders who can justify EI to
themselves.
> > Eventually, the cost may come down to that of mags; and, some of the
> > potential problems of installation may be eliminated by better
> instructions,
> > etc. Then, and only then, can I justify EI to myself. One side benefit
> of
> > having mags is that about any A&P/IA worth his/her salt is going to know
> and
> > understand mags. My thinking is that EI is fairly new to most of our
> > aircraft; so, they may not be so privy to that. If I'm paying someone
to
> > fix an ignition problem, I'd rather they work on something they know so
> that
> > the time to repair is less. That equals a smaller bill.
> >
> > We guys on a tight budget do well to afford a simple airplane; so, we
have
> > to let those with more loose change experiment with the newer toys.
That
> > eventually gets the prices down, hopefully, so that us poorer guys can
> > benefit. I'd say EI, glass panels, etc. will be standard equipment on
> most
> > aircraft, one day. Right now, I'm going to have to spend my money on
> those
> > things that I can depend on working for lesser dollars. Mags and good
> > quality steam gauges fill that bill. I can use the savings from
> purchasing
> > those to help make up for that .4 gallons per hour I'll not have by
using
> > mags. Of course, I guess one could go back to work to afford those
nicer
> > things. Yeah, sure. :-)
> >
> > Jim Sears in KY
> > RV-6A N198JS (Scooter)
> > RV-7A #70317
> > EAA Tech Counselor
> > EAA Flight Advisor
> >
> >
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 10
____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 10:22:23 AM PST US
> From: Skylor Piper <skylor4@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: ignition problem
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Skylor Piper <skylor4@yahoo.com>
>
> > I've seen more than one engine trashed by hotshots
> > running LOP and going fast at the same time.
> > You can buy a lot of gas for the price of an engine.
>
> This is a typical BS response to lean of peak
> operations.
>
> Tell me: Exactly how does LOP and higher power
> settings hurt an engine? And how do you know that LOP
> operations killed said engines?
>
> Fact is, the mere act of operating LOP at 70-75% power
> will not hurt an engine. Running engines at "factory
> suggested" mixtures (50 ROP) at these power setting is
> much harder on the engine than LOP (higher head temps,
> higher ICP's)
>
> The big IF is how the engine is leaned at higher power
> settings. If you SLOWLY pull the mixture back from
> rich to peak, you MIGHT abuse the engine. If you pull
> the mixture quickly to LOP, then find peak from the
> lean side and re-lean to 80 or so LOP, you won't hurt
> it.
>
>
> __________________________________
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 11
____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 01:42:20 PM PST US
> From: Tedd McHenry <tedd@vansairforce.org>
> Subject: RV-List: Builder's Groups
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Tedd McHenry <tedd@vansairforce.org>
>
> I'm compiling a list of RV builder's groups for 24 Years of the RVator (to
be
> published this month). Here is my current list. If you know of a group
that's
> not on this list, or if you know that a group shown here has become
defunct,
> I'd appreciate it if you'd drop me a line off-list to let me know. I'm
also
> missing contact information for a few of the groups. If you can provide
that
> I'd also be very appreciative.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tedd McHenry
> Surrey, BC, Canada
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
> ---
> USA:
>
> Air Capital RVators, Wichita, KS (Curtis McDonough)
> Bay Area RVators, San Mateo, CA (Mitch Faatz)
> Chicago Area RVators, Chicago, IL (Tom Barnes)
> Florida Builders Group, Tampa, FL (Marshall Santi)
> Kansas City RVators, Overland Park, KS (Kevin Vap)
> New Mexico RV Builders
> Ohio Valley RVators, Vincent, OH (Rick Gray)
> Oklahoma Builders Group, Tulsa, OK (Alan Newby)
> RV Builders Group of the Triad, Advance, NC (Larry Bowen)
> RVators of the Carolinas, Matthews, NC (Bill Cruthers)
> Rocky Mountain RVators, Aurora, CO (Doug Bloomberg)
> Sacramento Builder's Group, Sacramento, CA (Ed Martinson)
> Salt Lake RV Builders Group, West Valley, UT (Ron Caldwell)
> Southeast RV Squardon
> Tennessee Valley Builder's Group, Decatur, AL (Bob Butler)
> VAF Arizona Wing
> VAF Florida Wing (Laura Crook)
> VAF Home Wing/EAA 105, Portland, OR (Randy Lervold)
> VAF Meadowlake Squardon, Peyton, CO (Bill Vondane)
> VAF Minnesota Wing, Hudson, WI (Doug Weiler)
> VAF New England Wing, Ashland, MA (Ken Balch)
> VAF Soutern California Wing, Los Angeles, CA (Paul Rosales)
> VAF Southern Region, Lewisville, TX (Doug Reeves)
> VAF Tri-State Wing, Loveland, OH (Curt Hoffman)
> VAF Tri-State Wing, St. Charles, MO (Kevin Lowery)
>
> Canada:
>
> VAF Western Canada Wing, Surrey, BC (Tedd McHenry)
> VAF Ontario Wing, Kitchener, ON (Terry Jantzi)
>
> France:
>
> Constructeurs amateurs de RV en France, La Teste de Buch (Jean-Claude
Chauvet)
>
> New Zealand:
>
> Christchurch (James McPhee)
>
> UK:
>
> UK RV Squadron
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 12
____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 02:55:43 PM PST US
> From: Dan DeNeal <rv6apilot@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-6 Drawings
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Dan DeNeal <rv6apilot@yahoo.com>
>
> Go back to Vans Web site (http://www.vansairforce.net/faq.htm) and scroll
down to the pictures of 6's and 8's. Click on the rv6 picture and save it to
your computer.
>
> Dan
>
> knology <edchristian@knology.net> wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "knology"
>
> Does anybody have some good drawings of 6 so I can figure out paint
scheme?
>
>
> Downloaded DWG files from here, but cannot find anything to convert them
=96
> do not have CAD software (XP)
>
>
> HYPERLINK
> "http://www.vansairforce.net/faq.htm"http://www.vansairforce.net/faq.htm
>
>
> Need something that works in paint or graphics program, JPEG, PNG
>
>
> Ed
>
>
> Do Not Archive
>
>
> ---
>
>
> tion
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 13
____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 05:41:29 PM PST US
> From: RV8ter@aol.com
> Subject: RV-List: michigan flyers/builders around?
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com
>
> Hello,
> I'm in Mich for vacation this whole 4th of July week. Anyone
flying/building
> and don't mind a visitor drop me a line and save me from too many parties
and
> in law visiting - PLEASE!
>
> I've not flown a GA plane around here so an RV orientation flight would be
> sweet but I'd be very happy looking over a RV8s (which is what I'm
finishing
> up). If you have a Jeff Rose EI that would be really good for me to take
a look
>
> at. No one has one around where I live.
>
> Thanks a bunch,
> Lucky Macy
> cp 610 348 4296
> MI number where staying most of the time is 248 853 3038
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 14
____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 07:14:19 PM PST US
> From: Dave Bristol <bj034@lafn.org>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Hot start (was: Ignition problem)
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Dave Bristol <bj034@lafn.org>
>
> Hi Dan,
>
> Just using the purge valve to shut the engine down tends to solve the
> restart problems that you normally have with fuel injection. When you
> shut down with the mixture control it usually leaves pressurized fuel in
> the system which then leaks past the idle cutoff valve and into the
> cylinders via the flow divider and injectors. While this won't
> necessarily flood the engine it does leave it in an unknown condition
> which can make restarting interesting. If you use the AFP purge valve to
> stop the engine, it bypasses the residual pressure back to the tank
> instead of letting it flow into the engine. This gives you a known
> condition for every warm start.
> I've used the purge valve (as a purge valve) only a couple of times
> myself but having flown the airplane for quite a while before I
> installed it I can tell you I wouldn't be without it! I used to dread
> quick turnarounds because I almost always had to flood the engine first
> then do a flooded start, but now every start is a piece of cake.
> So, I guess even if you're not using it, you're using it? : >)
>
> Dave
>
> Dan Checkoway wrote:
>
> >--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
> >
> >
> >
> >>before someone pipes in with the "holy grail" of heat soaked injected
> >>Lycoming starting, please don't.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Can't....resist....commenting.....must.....type.....response..... 8-)
> >
> >I have the Airflow Performance injection and purge valve system on my
> >IO-360-A1B6. I thought the purge valve would be the coolest thing sinced
> >sliced bread. Never use it.
> >
> >Well...until today. In Vegas, it was over 90F on the ground, and for the
> >very first time in 150 hours, my engine got heat soaked badly enough to
> >inhibit starting right up. It would kick and then die. Repeat x3,
> >regardless of various attempts. I actually went ahead and used the purge
> >valve as it's intended -- purge valve open, throttle & mixture
firewalled,
> >boost pump on for 20-30 sec, purge valve closed, mixture cutoff, crank --
> >started right up. It really did help.
> >
> >Up until this point, hot starts have required very little effort, and I
went
> >from using the purge valve occasionally to not bothering and essentially
> >never needing it. But I do see that in certain conditions it really does
> >pay off.
> >
> >)_( Dan
> >RV-7 N714D
> >http://www.rvproject.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 15
____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 07:34:28 PM PST US
> From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Hot start (was: Ignition problem)
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
>
> > Just using the purge valve to shut the engine down tends to solve the
>
> I *always* shut down with the purge valve, no exception.
>
> > So, I guess even if you're not using it, you're using it? : >)
>
> Yeah, true... 8-) I guess my "never use it" statement was more about
using
> it when starting.
>
> )_( Dan
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 16
____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 08:47:07 PM PST US
> From: "Are Barstad" <are_barstad@norlogic.com>
> Subject: RE: RV-List: Builder's Groups
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Are Barstad" <are_barstad@norlogic.com>
>
> Group looks good to me. You need to change the name for VAF-OW Ontario
Wing
> from Terry Jantzi to me though (Are Barstad).
>
> Are Barstad
> President
> www.ontariorvators.org
>
> do not archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tedd McHenry
> Subject: RV-List: Builder's Groups
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Tedd McHenry <tedd@vansairforce.org>
>
> I'm compiling a list of RV builder's groups for 24 Years of the RVator (to
> be
> published this month). Here is my current list. If you know of a group
> that's
> not on this list, or if you know that a group shown here has become
defunct,
> I'd appreciate it if you'd drop me a line off-list to let me know. I'm
also
> missing contact information for a few of the groups. If you can provide
> that
> I'd also be very appreciative.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tedd McHenry
> Surrey, BC, Canada
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
> ---
> USA:
>
> Air Capital RVators, Wichita, KS (Curtis McDonough)
> Bay Area RVators, San Mateo, CA (Mitch Faatz)
> Chicago Area RVators, Chicago, IL (Tom Barnes)
> Florida Builders Group, Tampa, FL (Marshall Santi)
> Kansas City RVators, Overland Park, KS (Kevin Vap)
> New Mexico RV Builders
> Ohio Valley RVators, Vincent, OH (Rick Gray)
> Oklahoma Builders Group, Tulsa, OK (Alan Newby)
> RV Builders Group of the Triad, Advance, NC (Larry Bowen)
> RVators of the Carolinas, Matthews, NC (Bill Cruthers)
> Rocky Mountain RVators, Aurora, CO (Doug Bloomberg)
> Sacramento Builder's Group, Sacramento, CA (Ed Martinson)
> Salt Lake RV Builders Group, West Valley, UT (Ron Caldwell)
> Southeast RV Squardon
> Tennessee Valley Builder's Group, Decatur, AL (Bob Butler)
> VAF Arizona Wing
> VAF Florida Wing (Laura Crook)
> VAF Home Wing/EAA 105, Portland, OR (Randy Lervold)
> VAF Meadowlake Squardon, Peyton, CO (Bill Vondane)
> VAF Minnesota Wing, Hudson, WI (Doug Weiler)
> VAF New England Wing, Ashland, MA (Ken Balch)
> VAF Soutern California Wing, Los Angeles, CA (Paul Rosales)
> VAF Southern Region, Lewisville, TX (Doug Reeves)
> VAF Tri-State Wing, Loveland, OH (Curt Hoffman)
> VAF Tri-State Wing, St. Charles, MO (Kevin Lowery)
>
> Canada:
>
> VAF Western Canada Wing, Surrey, BC (Tedd McHenry)
> VAF Ontario Wing, Kitchener, ON (Terry Jantzi)
>
> France:
>
> Constructeurs amateurs de RV en France, La Teste de Buch (Jean-Claude
> Chauvet)
>
> New Zealand:
>
> Christchurch (James McPhee)
>
> UK:
>
> UK RV Squadron
>
>
> ---
> Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
>
> ---
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 17
____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 09:53:34 PM PST US
> h75larry@hotmail.com, goobs47@juno.com, ceengland@bellsouth.net
> Subject: RV-List: RV-List Fly-in EVERYONE WELCOME
> From: smoothweasel@juno.com
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: smoothweasel@juno.com
>
> Hey Guys, Each and everyone of you are invited to come over for our
> fly-in. This will be taking place over Oshkosh weekend so anyone that
> is passing through the area to or from Oshkosh please feel free to stop
> in. A Lunch will be provided at no cost!!!!! Bring anything that will
> fly.........there will be RV's, Biplanes, a whole lot of taildraggers,
> and some projects on display, including a Pitts, a Legal Eagle and
> more......and a whole lot of guys hangin' round and talkin about planes.
>
> If the weather is bad we will have it at the Macon, MS airport (20M).
> Time: anytime after 7:00am......we will have doughnuts for the early
> ones.
>
>
> Location: Brooksville MS
>
> Freq. 122.75
>
> Coordinates: 33deg 16.199N
> 088deg 34.168W
>
> Runway: 2500ft Grass North and South note: unobstructed app. from
> South. and trees on the North end.
>
> also note: 84ft tower located next to house.
>
> Tel. 662 738 5666
>
> Weasel
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | RV-6A gear leg fairing length |
--> RV-List message posted by: "thomas a. sargent" <sarg314@earthlink.net>
I just started trimmimg the gear leg fairing - cut it to match the
drawing. The manual indicates that it might need to be trimmed shorter.
Thinking about removing/inserting the hinge pin, I'd like to cut the
lower end back an inch or so to give me more room to get the pin in &
out. It also leaves a bit more room for the brake line. The drawings &
manual don't indicate how much room there should be between the lower
end of the gear leg fairing and the wheel fairing, if any. (Neither the
top or bottom intersection fairings are made yet, of course.)
Can any one tell me how the hinge pin is typically removed from the
fairing? Do you remove the wheel fairing AND the top intersection
fairing first and then loosen the hose clamp that holds the gear fairing
to the leg?
Also, how far down from the top is the hose clamp typically located? I
find it hard to get the brake line laying flat against the gear leg as
high up as the drawing seems to indicate, that is, an about an inch from
the landing gear weldment.
Thanks for any guidance here.
--
Tom Sargent, RV-6A, Landing gear
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