Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:36 AM - AOA Indicator (EMAproducts@aol.com)
2. 09:14 AM - Subject: Icom comparison (Randy Russell)
3. 11:47 AM - [ Dave Rossiter ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Email List Photo Shares)
4. 11:52 AM - [ Henry Hore ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Email List Photo Shares)
5. 12:03 PM - Re: Who Frequents Sedona, AZ? ()
6. 04:46 PM - Re: Subject: Icom comparison (John Danielson)
7. 07:19 PM - Re: Subject: Icom comparison (Hedrick)
8. 08:53 PM - Sloshing fuel tanks w/alodine after completion (David Fenstermacher)
9. 09:07 PM - Re: Sloshing fuel tanks w/alodine after completion (DonVS)
10. 09:53 PM - Re: Re: Who Frequents Sedona, AZ? (Paul Besing)
11. 09:58 PM - Re: Sloshing fuel tanks w/alodine after completion (Paul Trotter)
12. 10:05 PM - Kitlog Website Confusion (Paul Besing)
Message 1
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--> RV-List message posted by: EMAproducts@aol.com
Just as there are RV's, Glasairs, Lancairs and other makes of aircraft, there
is more than one manufacturer of AOA systems. Go to www.riteangle.com for
information on the fully versatile system, On all production Fire Boss Borate
bombers. We've been in business making AOA's since '95. Come by and visit at
Arlington & AirVenture, see how it works, discuss how to save a couple hundred
$! A fully operational system which corrects for up to 6 flap positions. We
are across from Van's display @ Arlington displaying with Evergreen Aircraft
Services. I'm giving several Forums @ Arlington, one @ AirVenture. Elbie
Mendenhall, EM Aviation, LLC
I have yet to find someone who planned on an accident!
paulfolbrecht@yahoo.com wrote:
I'm wondering if an AOA indicator is something I'm really going to want or
not.
My thoughts are that $800 is a bit of a large chunk of change for this
functionality. I have not ever felt a problem flying by ASI and feel - never
relied on a spam-can stall-horn to keep me out of trouble anyway.
Do any of you know of any RV pilot who planned on having an accident??
Message 2
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Russell" <rer51@netscape.ca>
A23 is excellent as a backup NAV/Com. Used it for both on a least 2 occasions.
Randy
Message 3
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| Subject: | [ Dave Rossiter ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
--> RV-List message posted by: Email List Photo Shares <pictures@matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Dave Rossiter <daverossiter717@hotmail.com>
Lists: Rocket-List,RV-List,RV4-List,RV8-List
Subject: Dave Rossiter's F1 Rocket
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/daverossiter717@hotmail.com.06.18.2005/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
4) One line Subject description:
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures@matronics.com
Message 4
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| Subject: | [ Henry Hore ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
--> RV-List message posted by: Email List Photo Shares <pictures@matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Henry Hore <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
Lists: RV-List,RV6-List,RV7-List,RV8-List,RV9-List
Subject: Leveling RV6-A Fuselage
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com.06.18.2005/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
4) One line Subject description:
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures@matronics.com
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Who Frequents Sedona, AZ? |
--> RV-List message posted by: <gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com>
Paul:
I re-read your original post after your second post that SEZ is closed at night
and I am starting to think we are talking about two different airports?
KSEZ: Sedona has runway 3 and 21. Not sure where you got: "....should land on RWY
30 and Takeoff RWY 12" ?
Also it is LEFT traffic for both runway 3 and 21.
Are we talking about the same airport KSEZ, Sedona AZ? KSEZ as I said is open 24
hours.
As far as your comment: "Everyone always comes in high and hot, and ends up slamming
on the runway. I've seen many broken wheel pants there."
Trusting altimeter for landing and broken wheel pants? I am not sure what you are
talking about, I don't look at my altimeter when landing or do any pilot I
know. Like ANY landing look at the runway and my aim point. I do the same in my
RV or B767. Here is the deal, both runways at Sedona are served by a VASI (two
lights to the left of the runway touchdown zone). As long as you have white
over red you will be fine. Fly normal approach speeds and follow the VASI, which
provides a 3.0 deg final approach at SEZ. There should be no over riding visual
illusion to make you fly high. In fact with the 75' width runway and airport
higher than surrounding surface you would tend to fly lower and flat. Again
VASI and standard pattern at standard speeds = NO BIG DEAL. Wheel pants? Not
sure why wheel pants are breaking.
"In the AFD it doesn't say it, but you should land on RWY 30 and Takeoff on RWY
12."
Paul as far as landing, land on the runway that is favored by the wind. If there
were no wind why would you want to land on 30 (guess you mean 3) and take off
on runway 12 (guess you mean 21). You will have traffic conflict. This is not
a one-way airport. However I would agree takeoff on 21 is best because the terrain
is slightly higher to the north. I have landed on 3 and departed on 21
only because I was coming and going to the south and no one else was in the pattern
and the winds where calm. The only instrument approach procedure (IAP) to
SEZ is to runway 3, and the only standard instrument departure procedure (SID)
is off of runway 21. However we are not talking about clear blue VFR, IFR procedures
do not matter. The terrain is not enough to justify making this a one-way
airport. Use the runway that the wind favors (usually rwy 21) OR other traffic
is using OR call UNICOM/CTAF (123.0) for recommended RWY. If all the above
are nutural land in the direction that makes it
easy for
you. Of course listen and make calls in the blind, this is universal and per the
AIM. If you are rusty on un-controlled airport Ops read the AIM.
Paul I got to admit you really have me confused with "I like to do soft field type
landings there because of the winds."
Paul, what are you talking about? No offense but that does not make sense at all.
In windy conditions you should fly the aircraft onto the runway under control
positive. Soft field landings are at or near min speed (stall) at high angle
of attack. The only thing to do in windy conditions with gusts, is add some
extra speed. The extra speed is bleed off on short short final. I would not recommend
a full stall landing in gusty conditions.
WIND: Look KSEZ prevailing winds (if there is any) are usually from the south around
10 mph and are caused by frontal activity, thermal conditions and terrain.
I have been in there several times and at different times of the year and day
and never found wind a major issue, but if it is windy there is a chance of:
"turbulence experienced in the vicinity of the airport." There is no unique
characteristic of the Sedona area that makes it subject to high winds more than
any other part of Arizona except the terrain, which can shelter as well. Expect
the after noon heat will create thermal bump activity, but it's no big deal.
Just check the weather, current, forecast, AIMETS, SIGMETS. I would also look
at winds aloft at 9000/12,000 feet. If the wind is blowing more than 20-30
kts @ 9,000 feet, it can be bouncy.
I don't recommend any special "technique" for Sedona; it is just an airport on
a 500' MESA, plenty wide and long (about 5000' x 75). IT IS JUST AN AIRPORT. Yes
it has terrain that is about 3,000' higher with in 25nm. Yes it sits on a 500'
mesa. So what. If it's windy there CAN be turbulence. NO big deal. It is a
fun airport with a long wide runway. The town is too far to walk to but close
by with taxi. Check the weather for any 24 hour period over a week or so, you
will get a feel of the weather, which is usually clear this time of year.
As far as landing there is no special technique. Fly the way you always do. Airport
is @ 4700' elev so pattern is 5700'. There is no big deal to landing at Sedona
and it is open at night.
If we are NOT talking about Sedona AZ than my apologize. Paul not sure what you
are talking about but let me know when you are flying into KSEZ next time. I
want to see you fly that RIGHT pattern to RUN 12 looking at the altimeter. : -)
(Just Kidding).
Cheers George ATP, CFI
>From: Paul Besing <pbesing@yahoo.com>
>Subject: Re: Who Frequents Sedona, AZ?
>
>Trust your altimiter (altimeter?). Everyone always comes in high
>and hot, and ends up slamming on the runway. I've
>seen many broken wheel pants there. In the AFD it
>doesn't say it, but you should land on RWY 30 and
>Takeoff on RWY 12. LISTEN to everyone on the radio,
>because many people fly in there and are not familiar,
>and you will have people doing right traffic for 12
>and left traffic for 30. I like to do soft field type
>landings there because of the winds.
>
>Paul Besing
---------------------------------
Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football
Message 6
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--> RV-List message posted by: "John Danielson" <Jdaniel343@bresnan.net>
Check to make sure they are both apples to apples comparison. Usually
the cheaper one will leave out the headset/mic adapter. This can run $50
or more.
Usually there is no difference in the radios. The more expensive ones
usually have a VOR/CDI.
John L. Danielson
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy Russell
Subject: Subject: RV-List: Icom comparison
--> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Russell" <rer51@netscape.ca>
A23 is excellent as a backup NAV/Com. Used it for both on a least 2
occasions. Randy
Message 7
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Hedrick" <khedrick@frontiernet.net>
Two things I don't like about my icom are 1) NO METER to tell me how much
battery strength is left. When it says low battery you have enough battery
to say 'bye', not enough to say 'good bye'. and 2) no backlight (this is
plus and minus for batt strength.)
Keith Hedrick
Carlinville IL
==================
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Danielson
Subject: RE: Subject: RV-List: Icom comparison
--> RV-List message posted by: "John Danielson" <Jdaniel343@bresnan.net>
Check to make sure they are both apples to apples comparison. Usually
the cheaper one will leave out the headset/mic adapter. This can run $50
or more.
Usually there is no difference in the radios. The more expensive ones
usually have a VOR/CDI.
John L. Danielson
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy Russell
Subject: Subject: RV-List: Icom comparison
--> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Russell" <rer51@netscape.ca>
A23 is excellent as a backup NAV/Com. Used it for both on a least 2
occasions. Randy
Message 8
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| Subject: | Sloshing fuel tanks w/alodine after completion |
--> RV-List message posted by: "David Fenstermacher" <dfenstermacher@earthlink.net>
Read the archives on the plusses and minuses of alodine on the tank parts.
Not trying to re-hash that.
What I was thinking was - slosh alumiprep and alodine in the finished tanks for
corrosion protection.
Being that I am far too lazy to do the individual parts :)
What do you all think - good/bad idea.
Thanks,
Dave
David Fenstermacher
dfenstermacher@earthlink.net
Message 9
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| Subject: | Sloshing fuel tanks w/alodine after completion |
--> RV-List message posted by: "DonVS" <dsvs@comcast.net>
Alumaprep is an acid. Not sure how the proseal will stand up to this. Oh
alodine is also acid based. Don
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of David
Fenstermacher
Subject: RV-List: Sloshing fuel tanks w/alodine after completion
--> RV-List message posted by: "David Fenstermacher"
<dfenstermacher@earthlink.net>
Read the archives on the plusses and minuses of alodine on the tank parts.
Not trying to re-hash that.
What I was thinking was - slosh alumiprep and alodine in the finished tanks
for corrosion protection.
Being that I am far too lazy to do the individual parts :)
What do you all think - good/bad idea.
Thanks,
Dave
David Fenstermacher
dfenstermacher@earthlink.net
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Who Frequents Sedona, AZ? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Paul Besing" <paul@kitlog.com>
Yes we are talking about the same airport. Sorry, I got the runway numbers
incorrect. I didn't have the AFD in front of me when I wrote the email.
Last time I was there, about a month ago, there was a sign that said the
airport is closed after 7:00 PM if I remember correctly. Nevertheless, I
would not consider going there at night. It might have been temporary,
because I remember people talking about it on the ramp.
As far as the altimiter is concerned, the reason why I said that is there is
a great visual illusion when you land there. The ground below you is
probably 500-1000' lower than the airport elevation. I bring students there
often, and every stinking time, they are high and fast. They are scared
about hitting the approach end that slopes down into the valley.
Prevailing winds or not, I am just stating what most people who regularly
fly in there do. The traffic patterns there are strange sometimes. The AFD
*used to say* land on 3 and take off on 21. They took it out. You have
many locals and others who frequent SEZ and they still do this. The problem
is, newcomers just go off of the wind, and you'll have people landing
opposite directions. Most of the time, a local will come on the radio and
correct the person from landing on the *wrong* runway. I disagree with the
comment about landing there where the winds are coming from, within reason,
of course. The runway is sloped pretty steep. Land uphill, take off
downhill kind of thing. You might fly an RV in there with no problems, but
you get weekend warriors in a C-172 with 3 or god forbid 4 people in the
summertime, and you need that downhill slope. Now, don't misread me on
this, because if the wind is greater than about 5 knots or so, I would start
evaluating the wind and now following the typical runway selection. Of
course I would rather have a stiff headwind while taking off high DA, but if
it is light, or a crosswind, I'm taking off on the downhill and landing on
the uphill.
I know you have been in there, but I'm not sure how many times. I frequent
Sedona with my students, and I am just stating what I have seen there over
the years. Just last time I was there I saw someone pancake a C172 on the
runway and tear up a wheel pant. It is a very common mistake. I've seen it
from private, instrument, and commercial students.
As far as soft field landings, I think I didn't elaborate enough. My point
is to land with POWER, i.e positive control. I teach soft field landings to
be "greaser" type landings, slightly faster than the full stall landings,
rather than high angle of attack, slow airspeed. The reason is that people
try to landing high angle of attack, then they are on the area of reverse
command. They try to squeak in a little power to soften the landing, and if
it is too much power, they are a prime candidate for a departure stall.
Paul Besing
RV-6A Sold
Kitlog Builder's Software
www.kitlog.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com
Subject: RV-List: Re: Who Frequents Sedona, AZ?
--> RV-List message posted by: <gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com>
Paul:
I re-read your original post after your second post that SEZ is closed at
night and I am starting to think we are talking about two different
airports?
KSEZ: Sedona has runway 3 and 21. Not sure where you got: "....should land
on RWY 30 and Takeoff RWY 12" ?
Also it is LEFT traffic for both runway 3 and 21.
Are we talking about the same airport KSEZ, Sedona AZ? KSEZ as I said is
open 24 hours.
As far as your comment: "Everyone always comes in high and hot, and ends up
slamming on the runway. I've seen many broken wheel pants there."
Trusting altimeter for landing and broken wheel pants? I am not sure what
you are talking about, I don't look at my altimeter when landing or do any
pilot I know. Like ANY landing look at the runway and my aim point. I do the
same in my RV or B767. Here is the deal, both runways at Sedona are served
by a VASI (two lights to the left of the runway touchdown zone). As long as
you have white over red you will be fine. Fly normal approach speeds and
follow the VASI, which provides a 3.0 deg final approach at SEZ. There
should be no over riding visual illusion to make you fly high. In fact with
the 75' width runway and airport higher than surrounding surface you would
tend to fly lower and flat. Again VASI and standard pattern at standard
speeds = NO BIG DEAL. Wheel pants? Not sure why wheel pants are breaking.
"In the AFD it doesn't say it, but you should land on RWY 30 and Takeoff on
RWY 12."
Paul as far as landing, land on the runway that is favored by the wind. If
there were no wind why would you want to land on 30 (guess you mean 3) and
take off on runway 12 (guess you mean 21). You will have traffic conflict.
This is not a one-way airport. However I would agree takeoff on 21 is best
because the terrain is slightly higher to the north. I have landed on 3 and
departed on 21 only because I was coming and going to the south and no one
else was in the pattern and the winds where calm. The only instrument
approach procedure (IAP) to SEZ is to runway 3, and the only standard
instrument departure procedure (SID) is off of runway 21. However we are not
talking about clear blue VFR, IFR procedures do not matter. The terrain is
not enough to justify making this a one-way airport. Use the runway that the
wind favors (usually rwy 21) OR other traffic is using OR call UNICOM/CTAF
(123.0) for recommended RWY. If all the above are nutural land in the
direction that makes it
easy for
you. Of course listen and make calls in the blind, this is universal and
per the AIM. If you are rusty on un-controlled airport Ops read the AIM.
Paul I got to admit you really have me confused with "I like to do soft
field type landings there because of the winds."
Paul, what are you talking about? No offense but that does not make sense at
all. In windy conditions you should fly the aircraft onto the runway under
control positive. Soft field landings are at or near min speed (stall) at
high angle of attack. The only thing to do in windy conditions with gusts,
is add some extra speed. The extra speed is bleed off on short short final.
I would not recommend a full stall landing in gusty conditions.
WIND: Look KSEZ prevailing winds (if there is any) are usually from the
south around 10 mph and are caused by frontal activity, thermal conditions
and terrain. I have been in there several times and at different times of
the year and day and never found wind a major issue, but if it is windy
there is a chance of: "turbulence experienced in the vicinity of the
airport." There is no unique characteristic of the Sedona area that makes it
subject to high winds more than any other part of Arizona except the
terrain, which can shelter as well. Expect the after noon heat will create
thermal bump activity, but it's no big deal. Just check the weather,
current, forecast, AIMETS, SIGMETS. I would also look at winds aloft at
9000/12,000 feet. If the wind is blowing more than 20-30 kts @ 9,000 feet,
it can be bouncy.
I don't recommend any special "technique" for Sedona; it is just an airport
on a 500' MESA, plenty wide and long (about 5000' x 75). IT IS JUST AN
AIRPORT. Yes it has terrain that is about 3,000' higher with in 25nm. Yes it
sits on a 500' mesa. So what. If it's windy there CAN be turbulence. NO big
deal. It is a fun airport with a long wide runway. The town is too far to
walk to but close by with taxi. Check the weather for any 24 hour period
over a week or so, you will get a feel of the weather, which is usually
clear this time of year.
As far as landing there is no special technique. Fly the way you always do.
Airport is @ 4700' elev so pattern is 5700'. There is no big deal to landing
at Sedona and it is open at night.
If we are NOT talking about Sedona AZ than my apologize. Paul not sure what
you are talking about but let me know when you are flying into KSEZ next
time. I want to see you fly that RIGHT pattern to RUN 12 looking at the
altimeter. : -) (Just Kidding).
Cheers George ATP, CFI
>From: Paul Besing <pbesing@yahoo.com>
>Subject: Re: Who Frequents Sedona, AZ?
>
>Trust your altimiter (altimeter?). Everyone always comes in high
>and hot, and ends up slamming on the runway. I've
>seen many broken wheel pants there. In the AFD it
>doesn't say it, but you should land on RWY 30 and
>Takeoff on RWY 12. LISTEN to everyone on the radio,
>because many people fly in there and are not familiar,
>and you will have people doing right traffic for 12
>and left traffic for 30. I like to do soft field type
>landings there because of the winds.
>
>Paul Besing
---------------------------------
Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Sloshing fuel tanks w/alodine after completion |
--> RV-List message posted by: Paul Trotter <ptrotter@acm.org>
I think that alodining tank parts is a good idea, it gives you some
additional corrosion protection, especially considering that your tanks will
probably sit for some time before they get filled with fuel. However, I
would do the individual parts as I think it will be difficult to get a good
result sloshing the tank after it is completed. Particularly, I think
rinsing the alodine out will be difficult, as you don't want to let alodine
sit on the metal too long. Alodining will also improve the adhesion of
ProSeal, since ProSeal adheres better to alodined metal than to bare metal.
Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Fenstermacher" <dfenstermacher@earthlink.net>
Subject: RV-List: Sloshing fuel tanks w/alodine after completion
> --> RV-List message posted by: "David Fenstermacher"
<dfenstermacher@earthlink.net>
>
> Read the archives on the plusses and minuses of alodine on the tank parts.
> Not trying to re-hash that.
> What I was thinking was - slosh alumiprep and alodine in the finished
tanks for corrosion protection.
> Being that I am far too lazy to do the individual parts :)
>
>
> What do you all think - good/bad idea.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dave
>
>
> David Fenstermacher
> dfenstermacher@earthlink.net
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Kitlog Website Confusion |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Paul Besing" <paul@kitlog.com>
Listers:
It has come to my attention that there is another builder log website out
there that is using our name. If you are trying to reach our website,
understand it is www.kitlog.com. Any other domain that contains the word
kitlog or variations of, is not our website.
Paul Besing
President
Aeroware Enterprises, LLC
paul@kitlog.com
www.kitlog.com
480.361.9011 Office
480.236.2786 Cell
do not archive
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