Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:53 AM - Clocking the prop. Real world data (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta))
2. 08:20 AM - Re: Clocking the prop. Real world data (Randy Lervold)
3. 09:45 AM - Re: Contact Info for John Parks (Terry Watson)
4. 09:46 AM - Re: Clocking the prop. Real world data (Dan Checkoway)
5. 10:14 AM - Re: User Fees and Patriotism (Bob)
6. 10:38 AM - Re: User Fees and Patriotism (Tim Bryan)
7. 01:13 PM - Re: User Fees and Patriotism (Tedd McHenry)
8. 01:57 PM - Re: User Fees and Patriotism (Joseph Larson)
9. 02:15 PM - Re: Clocking the prop. Real world data (Kevin Horton)
10. 02:47 PM - Will Trade Pitot Tubes ()
11. 03:24 PM - Re: Clocking the prop. Real world data (ronlee@pcisys.net)
12. 03:24 PM - Re: Clocking the prop. Real world data (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta))
13. 05:02 PM - Re: Clocking the prop. Real world data (gordon or marge)
14. 06:05 PM - Re: User Fees and Patriotism (Jerry Springer)
15. 08:52 PM - Re: User Fees and Patriotism (Vanremog@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Clocking the prop. Real world data |
After weeks of trial and error, I have finally reached a point where I
can safely say that clocking the prop doesn't just make a difference, it
makes ALL the difference.
Several weeks ago I set out on a mission to run to ground a vibration in
my RV-8. An IO-540 C4B5 with a Hartzell 2 blade prop. There has been a
vibration that I would characterize as objectionable. Common on big
engine Rockets and RV's. The lower the RPM, the more objectionable it
was.
I was able to instrument the plane and do some real tests and get real
results with real data. The net of it is that by changing the prop
clocking, I was able to improve my vibration by 83%. And no Im not
kidding. You can read all the details here.
http://www2.mstewart.net:8080/super8/index.htm
I captured a lot of data. I sure hope others find it useful. I have a
new plane as a result.
Best,
Mike
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Clocking the prop. Real world data |
Wow Mike, great info!!! I've long been curious about prop clocking but
there are some obstacles to just trying it as you ran into with the
crank flange bosses. Of course you're working on a 6-cylinder where most
of us are flying 4-cylinders. Anyone out there want to do some prop
clocking experimentation with an O-360?
If anyone in the Northwest wants to try some clocking experimentation I
can assist with the measurement. Our EAA chapter has a DSS Micro
MicroVibe II balancer....
http://www.eaa105.org/Programs/programs.htm#PropBalancing
Best,
Randy Lervold
----- Original Message -----
From: Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)
To: rocket-list@matronics.com ; rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 6:51 AM
Subject: RV-List: Clocking the prop. Real world data
After weeks of trial and error, I have finally reached a point where I
can safely say that clocking the prop doesn't just make a difference, it
makes ALL the difference.
Several weeks ago I set out on a mission to run to ground a vibration
in my RV-8. An IO-540 C4B5 with a Hartzell 2 blade prop. There has been
a vibration that I would characterize as objectionable. Common on big
engine Rockets and RV's. The lower the RPM, the more objectionable it
was.
I was able to instrument the plane and do some real tests and get real
results with real data. The net of it is that by changing the prop
clocking, I was able to improve my vibration by 83%. And no Im not
kidding. You can read all the details here.
http://www2.mstewart.net:8080/super8/index.htm
I captured a lot of data. I sure hope others find it useful. I have a
new plane as a result.
Best,
Mike
Message 3
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| Subject: | Contact Info for John Parks |
I see I gave the wrong phone number for John Stark, or at least the area
code is wrong. This is cut & pasted from the website: 706-321-1008
The area code I posted would put him in Seattle.
Terry
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Clocking the prop. Real world data |
Randy, you might find this interesting:
http://www.rvproject.com/m20j/pdfs/service_bulletins/sbm20-206.pdf
On my last Mooney, I flew behind an IO-360-A3B6D. What made it an
-A3... vs an -A1... were the reindexed prop flange bushings, and thus
the clocking of the prop (per the SB listed above). That was one very
smooth engine, but I can't say I had the opportunity to fly it before
the conversion was done.
The -A1B6 I have in my RV-7 had notable vibration early on, but after I
broke it in, I had it dynamically balanced by Jim Fackler to 0.01 IPS
(http://www.rvproject.com/20040427.html). While I did originally
consider converting my -A1B6 to an -A3B6, it didn't end up being
necessary in the end. The dynamic balance took care of it.
Kahuna, I assume you dynamically balanced the prop before diving into
the reclocking project? I didn't see any notes about that on your site.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
www.rvproject.com / www.weathermeister.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Randy Lervold
To: rv-list@matronics.com ; rocket-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 8:06 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Clocking the prop. Real world data
Wow Mike, great info!!! I've long been curious about prop clocking
but there are some obstacles to just trying it as you ran into with the
crank flange bosses. Of course you're working on a 6-cylinder where most
of us are flying 4-cylinders. Anyone out there want to do some prop
clocking experimentation with an O-360?
If anyone in the Northwest wants to try some clocking experimentation
I can assist with the measurement. Our EAA chapter has a DSS Micro
MicroVibe II balancer....
http://www.eaa105.org/Programs/programs.htm#PropBalancing
Best,
Randy Lervold
----- Original Message -----
From: Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)
To: rocket-list@matronics.com ; rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 6:51 AM
Subject: RV-List: Clocking the prop. Real world data
After weeks of trial and error, I have finally reached a point where
I can safely say that clocking the prop doesn't just make a difference,
it makes ALL the difference.
Several weeks ago I set out on a mission to run to ground a
vibration in my RV-8. An IO-540 C4B5 with a Hartzell 2 blade prop. There
has been a vibration that I would characterize as objectionable. Common
on big engine Rockets and RV's. The lower the RPM, the more
objectionable it was.
I was able to instrument the plane and do some real tests and get
real results with real data. The net of it is that by changing the prop
clocking, I was able to improve my vibration by 83%. And no Im not
kidding. You can read all the details here.
http://www2.mstewart.net:8080/super8/index.htm
I captured a lot of data. I sure hope others find it useful. I have
a new plane as a result.
Best,
Mike
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.
com/Navigator?RV-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 5
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| Subject: | User Fees and Patriotism |
>Sadly, if it means some Americans can have a few more cents (or think
>they'll have a few more cents) in their pockets and someone else makes the
>sacrifice, either with their lives or their money, then,yes, I think that's
>what America wants
The above quote could be used to describe the War in Iraq, War in
Afghanistan and the War on Terror. These wars are fought by the
Volunteer Military with little or no sacrifice from the rest of
us. The Iraq war was to cost $30 Billion, it is now over $300 Billion.
My point is that the US Government needs the money. If you call it a
tax or a user fee, a turnpike toll, entrance into a National Park or
a landing fee, all are euphemism for the Government needing more money.
In my mind the decision to implement user fees were made long before
the 2006 elections. The Administration is just waiting for the right
time to announce them. The Airlines seem to think that user fees
will spread the costs over to General Aviation. But, when user fees
are implemented, the airlines cost will not be reduced (how many
taxes are ever phased out or reduced). The airlines will continue to
pay as much or more and General Aviation will pay more, and if by
some miracle the FAA starts to make a profit then that money will go
into the general fund to help pay for the many wars we are involved in.
Every extra dollar collected by the FAA for user fees will increase
the amount of taxpayer dollars from the general fund that then can be
used to pay for the wars. To put this in "Administration Talk," user
fees "Support the Troops" and opposing them means we are unpatriotic.
No matter what your political views may be, "Somebody has got to
Pay"! We are just debating who and how much.
Bob
RV6 "Wicked Witch of the West"
Message 6
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| Subject: | User Fees and Patriotism |
That ought to get the list moving. I am going flying for awhile.
Do Not Archive
Tim
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-
> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob
> Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 11:14 AM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV-List: User Fees and Patriotism
>
>
>
> >Sadly, if it means some Americans can have a few more cents (or think
> >they'll have a few more cents) in their pockets and someone else makes
> the
> >sacrifice, either with their lives or their money, then,yes, I think
> that's
> >what America wants
>
> The above quote could be used to describe the War in Iraq, War in
> Afghanistan and the War on Terror. These wars are fought by the
> Volunteer Military with little or no sacrifice from the rest of
> us. The Iraq war was to cost $30 Billion, it is now over $300 Billion.
>
> My point is that the US Government needs the money. If you call it a
> tax or a user fee, a turnpike toll, entrance into a National Park or
> a landing fee, all are euphemism for the Government needing more money.
>
> In my mind the decision to implement user fees were made long before
> the 2006 elections. The Administration is just waiting for the right
> time to announce them. The Airlines seem to think that user fees
> will spread the costs over to General Aviation. But, when user fees
> are implemented, the airlines cost will not be reduced (how many
> taxes are ever phased out or reduced). The airlines will continue to
> pay as much or more and General Aviation will pay more, and if by
> some miracle the FAA starts to make a profit then that money will go
> into the general fund to help pay for the many wars we are involved in.
>
> Every extra dollar collected by the FAA for user fees will increase
> the amount of taxpayer dollars from the general fund that then can be
> used to pay for the wars. To put this in "Administration Talk," user
> fees "Support the Troops" and opposing them means we are unpatriotic.
>
> No matter what your political views may be, "Somebody has got to
> Pay"! We are just debating who and how much.
>
> Bob
> RV6 "Wicked Witch of the West"
>
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | User Fees and Patriotism |
> No matter what your political views may be, "Somebody has got to
> Pay"! We are just debating who and how much.
Bob:
We already know that the debate is about who pays and how much they pay. After
all, we're the ones doing the debating. What we'd like to know is what you
think about THAT subject. There are lots of non-aviaion groups where you can
discuss other stuff.
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC, Canada
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: User Fees and Patriotism |
I think Bob was trying to show how people outside the GA crowd may
feel about the issue. Most non-flying folks won't care one way or
the other.
I think everyone concerned about this issue should take it into
consideration in upcoming elections over the next couple of years.
-Joe
do not archive
On Apr 17, 2007, at 3:11 PM, Tedd McHenry wrote:
>
>> No matter what your political views may be, "Somebody has got to
>> Pay"! We are just debating who and how much.
>
> Bob:
>
> We already know that the debate is about who pays and how much they
> pay. After
> all, we're the ones doing the debating. What we'd like to know is
> what you
> think about THAT subject. There are lots of non-aviaion groups
> where you can
> discuss other stuff.
>
> Tedd McHenry
> Surrey, BC, Canada
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Clocking the prop. Real world data |
On 17 Apr 2007, at 09:51, Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta) wrote:
> I was able to instrument the plane and do some real tests and get
> real results with real data. The net of it is that by changing the
> prop clocking, I was able to improve my vibration by 83%. And no Im
> not kidding. You can read all the details here. http://
> www2.mstewart.net:8080/super8/index.htm
Mike,
Thanks for sharing this very interesting, and useful info. Comments/
questions:
1. Did Les make any mention of whether prop clocking could have any
effect on engine/prop harmonic vibration compatibility? I'm no
expert in this area, but it seems logical that there could be an
effect in this area.
2. Something is screwy with that web page, at least with some
browsers. The two snapshots of the both overwrite some of the text
from the following paragraphs. I see this on Safari, Camino on OS X,
and Firefox with X11.
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
Message 10
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| Subject: | Will Trade Pitot Tubes |
I am flying with a Dynon unheated pitot tube with AOA probe. I would like to trade
for a heated pitot tube. I am not useing the AOA feature, so a standard
pitot should work fine as long as it is for 12 volts and fits in the same extension
as the Dynon tube. Will trade even. Contact me off list at ronschreck@windstream.net
Ron Schreck
RV-8, "Miss Izzy"
Gold Hill Airpark, NC
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Clocking the prop. Real world data |
Ok Mike or anyone else. Help educate me. I was under the impression
that the prop needed to be set in a specific orientation relative to
something. Perhaps it is almost horizontal right before the impulse mag
fires. I don't know.
Am I wrong about this or can the prop be moved anywhere it will fit and
in Mikes case, modifed to fit in any orientation.
Ron
Lee
---------------------------------------------
This message was sent using Endymion MailMan.
http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/
Message 12
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| Subject: | Clocking the prop. Real world data |
Yes I asked this question Kevin. Here is Les' response.
"Regarding the torsional vibration concerns, I don't think that is an
issue.
We're not concerned from a propeller standpoint. We've done testing to
confirm propeller stresses are not significantly impacted with different
clockings. We also have hubs that have different clocking positions
(HC-,PHC-, EHC-, DHC-, etc) and Lycoming doesn't care which one we use.
The
DHC-configuration is the one we are trying to duplicate."
Also I fixed the page load. You will have to refresh/reload to get the
changes.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Horton
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 5:14 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Clocking the prop. Real world data
On 17 Apr 2007, at 09:51, Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta) wrote:
> I was able to instrument the plane and do some real tests and get
> real results with real data. The net of it is that by changing the
> prop clocking, I was able to improve my vibration by 83%. And no Im
> not kidding. You can read all the details here. http://
> www2.mstewart.net:8080/super8/index.htm
Mike,
Thanks for sharing this very interesting, and useful info. Comments/
questions:
1. Did Les make any mention of whether prop clocking could have any
effect on engine/prop harmonic vibration compatibility? I'm no
expert in this area, but it seems logical that there could be an
effect in this area.
2. Something is screwy with that web page, at least with some
browsers. The two snapshots of the both overwrite some of the text
from the following paragraphs. I see this on Safari, Camino on OS X,
and Firefox with X11.
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
Message 13
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| Subject: | Clocking the prop. Real world data |
Subject: Re: RV-List: Clocking the prop. Real world data
Ok Mike or anyone else. Help educate me. I was under the impression
that the prop needed to be set in a specific orientation relative to
something. Perhaps it is almost horizontal right before the impulse mag
fires. I don't know.
Am I wrong about this or can the prop be moved anywhere it will fit and
in Mikes case, modifed to fit in any orientation.
Ron
Lee
Ron: I believe the customary clocking arose from the desire to enable hand
propping. Mooney requested the clocking that created the A3B6 but I don't
remember why. LoPresti clocked a Lyc 200 prop to time the blade passage at
the induction air inlet to coincide with some intake valve event in an
effort to increase manifold pressure. Don't know if it worked.
Gordon Comfort
N363GC
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: User Fees and Patriotism |
People won't care till they come to tax them for their favorite activity
and then wonder why no one is supporting their opposition the tax.
Joseph Larson wrote:
>
> I think Bob was trying to show how people outside the GA crowd may
> feel about the issue. Most non-flying folks won't care one way or
> the other.
>
> I think everyone concerned about this issue should take it into
> consideration in upcoming elections over the next couple of years.
>
> -Joe
>
> do not archive
>
> On Apr 17, 2007, at 3:11 PM, Tedd McHenry wrote:
>
>>
>>> No matter what your political views may be, "Somebody has got to
>>> Pay"! We are just debating who and how much.
>>
>>
>> Bob:
>>
>> We already know that the debate is about who pays and how much they
>> pay. After
>> all, we're the ones doing the debating. What we'd like to know is
>> what you
>> think about THAT subject. There are lots of non-aviaion groups
>> where you can
>> discuss other stuff.
>>
>> Tedd McHenry
>> Surrey, BC, Canada
>> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: User Fees and Patriotism |
In a message dated 4/17/2007 1:58:33 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
jpl@showpage.org writes:
I think everyone concerned about this issue should take it into
consideration in upcoming elections over the next couple of years.
========================================
And how is that supposed to help? We were told by the Republicans that the
bad Democrats wanted the user fees, but that they would preserve our god
given right to fly, so many voted for Republicans in the last few elections.
That sure worked well.
GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 842hrs, Silicon Valley, CA)
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
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