Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:21 AM - Re: Current crop of pitot tubes ()
2. 05:19 AM - Re: Re: Current crop of pitot tubes (Bob Leffler)
3. 10:15 AM - Re: Re: Current crop of pitot tubes (Tim Bryan)
4. 11:53 AM - IO 360 (Carl Bell)
5. 01:15 PM - Re: Re: Current crop of pitot tubes (Les Kearney)
6. 02:27 PM - Re: IO 360 (william hilling)
7. 02:57 PM - Four New Email Lists At Matronics!! (Matt Dralle)
8. 05:31 PM - Re: IO 360 (n801bh@netzero.com)
9. 07:18 PM - Re: Garmin 296 (Leland Collins)
10. 08:44 PM - Re: IO 360 (Kelly McMullen)
11. 09:04 PM - Re: Re: Garmin 296 (Greg Young)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Current crop of pitot tubes |
Before I make my two suggestions here is why you should not install one.
Deviation for Vans plans will add weight, cost and build time. Yes you are right
you don't need a heated pitot as a VFR pilot. In fact you don't need one for
an IFR plane either (please read the regs before you dispute this). As a pilot
with over 12,000 hrs and many 1000's of yours in IMC you can't get icing unless
you are in cloud or in freezing precipitation and the temp is below freezing.
Very simple no mosture no ice. No freezing or sub-freezing temp no ice.
Avoid one or both no ice. So you get into icing in your IFR RV-10 when you get
your rating. FIRST you should have your ticket taken back since you should NOT
be in icing. You have no business being in it, and if you wounder into it,
you should get out of it ASAP, climb, descend or 180 degree. If you collect ice
on your airframe that you see, you are in icing conditions and now have violated
FAR's and also common sense. My point is do you really need a heated pitot?
No. Run some wires out there, but leave it off.
So what if you pitot gets blocked, you loose what airspeed? Well you have GPS
ground speed. However some "experimental EFIS" do use airspeed or change in airspeed
(ie acceleration) to resolve some accelerometer error. Even still they
work with out airspeed I am told (Dynon).
If you must have a heated pitot, Dynon makes one for their EFIS with AOA.
http://www.dynonavionics.com/docs/D180_Feature_AOA.html
And these guys make a heated version for experimental's:
http://www.gretzaero.com/
They both have some interesting temp control deal which is nice to keep from
burning it out if you leave it on. Your other choice is ACS or some salvage yard
Cessna or Piper heated pitot, which are old and tired.
Bottom line its going to be about $500 of STUFF sitting out on your wing when
you get it all wired with CB and a few pounds more.
Cheers George
*************************************************************************************
Time: 01:34:02 AM PST US
From: Dan Charrois <danlist@syz.com>
Subject: RV-List: Current crop of pitot tubes
Hi all. I'm working on an RV-10 and am at the point now of
considering what kind of pitot tube to put in the thing. The bent
aluminum tube idea, though functional, doesn't really appeal to me.
Though I'm not an IFR pilot at the moment, I don't intend to remain
that way indefinitely, and I'd like to future-proof the plane as much
as practical. So I'm looking at putting in a heated pitot. Up until
now I've been assuming I'd go with a Gretz pitot - I like the idea of
its internal temperature regulation rather than just running at
maximum current draw the whole time it's on. But of course now that
I'm actually ready to get one it appears as though they're not
currently being manufactured and I haven't found anywhere that has
them in stock.
So what other options could anyone out there suggest?
Thanks!
Dan
--
Syzygy Research & Technology
Box 83, Legal, AB T0G 1L0 Canada
Phone: 780-961-2213
*************************************************************************************
---------------------------------
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| Subject: | Re: Current crop of pitot tubes |
Unfortunately, Gretz Aero has suspended manufacturing of their pitot.
Warren has posted information on his web site. Both ACS and Stein appear to
be out of stock.
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com
Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 6:15 AM
Subject: RV-List: Re: Current crop of pitot tubes
Before I make my two suggestions here is why you should not install one.
Deviation for Vans plans will add weight, cost and build time. Yes you are
right you don't need a heated pitot as a VFR pilot. In fact you don't need
one for an IFR plane either (please read the regs before you dispute this).
As a pilot with over 12,000 hrs and many 1000's of yours in IMC you can't
get icing unless you are in cloud or in freezing precipitation and the temp
is below freezing. Very simple no mosture no ice. No freezing or
sub-freezing temp no ice. Avoid one or both no ice. So you get into icing in
your IFR RV-10 when you get your rating. FIRST you should have your ticket
taken back since you should NOT be in icing. You have no business being in
it, and if you wounder into it, you should get out of it ASAP, climb,
descend or 180 degree. If you collect ice on your airframe that you see, you
are in icing conditions and now have violated FAR's and also common sense.
My point is do you really need a heated pitot? No. Run some wires out there,
but leave it off. So what if you pitot gets blocked, you loose what
airspeed? Well you have GPS ground speed. However some "experimental EFIS"
do use airspeed or change in airspeed (ie acceleration) to resolve some
accelerometer error. Even still they work with out airspeed I am told
(Dynon).
If you must have a heated pitot, Dynon makes one for their EFIS with AOA.
http://www.dynonavionics.com/docs/D180_Feature_AOA.html
And these guys make a heated version for experimental's:
http://www.gretzaero.com/
They both have some interesting temp control deal which is nice to keep from
burning it out if you leave it on. Your other choice is ACS or some salvage
yard Cessna or Piper heated pitot, which are old and tired.
Bottom line its going to be about $500 of STUFF sitting out on your wing
when you get it all wired with CB and a few pounds more.
Cheers George
****************************************************************************
*********
Time: 01:34:02 AM PST US
From: Dan Charrois <danlist@syz.com>
Subject: RV-List: Current crop of pitot tubes
Hi all. I'm working on an RV-10 and am at the point now of
considering what kind of pitot tube to put in the thing. The bent
aluminum tube idea, though functional, doesn't really appeal to me.
Though I'm not an IFR pilot at the moment, I don't intend to remain
that way indefinitely, and I'd like to future-proof the plane as much
as practical. So I'm looking at putting in a heated pitot. Up until
now I've been assuming I'd go with a Gretz pitot - I like the idea of
its internal temperature regulation rather than just running at
maximum current draw the whole time it's on. But of course now that
I'm actually ready to get one it appears as though they're not
currently being manufactured and I haven't found anywhere that has
them in stock.
So what other options could anyone out there suggest?
Thanks!
Dan
--
Syzygy Research & Technology
Box 83, Legal, AB T0G 1L0 Canada
Phone: 780-961-2213
****************************************************************************
*********
_____
Be a better friend, newshound, and
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| Subject: | Re: Current crop of pitot tubes |
George,
I almost really hate to post this considering all things but I cannot agree
with your assessment in whole. I also am an IFR pilot and you are right
but. You cannot always guarantee you will not be in ice just because you
don't want to. I have flown into clouds on an IFR flight plan with no
expected icing. I did not have icing equipment but flew right into an ice
situation where it built up very quickly and then quit (about 15 seconds).
I had two choices: either turn around and fly back through it or keep going
and hope to avoid any more. With ice on the prop, wings, pitot, and
windscreen I had a big problem. I was flying a C170 B with the 180 HP
engine and constant speed prop. I was thankful to have the big engine
because I lost 500 feet altitude (was given lower by ATC) and was still
flying at very low airspeed. If I remember right I was pitched up to about
75 MPH just to maintain my altitude. Thankfully I did have a heated pitot
because my airspeed indication was critical. It was one thing I badly
needed and thankfully had.
After crossing the Big Bear mountains, I was given a descent into the palm
springs area. Even well after getting out of the clouds I was IFR due to
the ice on the windscreen. It shed off much later as I got down below
4000'. The short of this is, if one is going to fly IFR, whether required
or not and even if not expected to get into ice, a heated pitot is a smart
choice. I have the Gretz in my RV-6.
Call me stupid if you want, but I was really glad I had it, and never
intended to experience the opportunity to need it.
Tim
RV-6
IFR with heated pitot.
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com
Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 5:15 AM
Subject: RV-List: Re: Current crop of pitot tubes
Before I make my two suggestions here is why you should not install one.
Deviation for Vans plans will add weight, cost and build time. Yes you are
right you don't need a heated pitot as a VFR pilot. In fact you don't need
one for an IFR plane either (please read the regs before you dispute this).
As a pilot with over 12,000 hrs and many 1000's of yours in IMC you can't
get icing unless you are in cloud or in freezing precipitation and the temp
is below freezing. Very simple no mosture no ice. No freezing or
sub-freezing temp no ice. Avoid one or both no ice. So you get into icing in
your IFR RV-10 when you get your rating. FIRST you should have your ticket
taken back since you should NOT be in icing. You have no business being in
it, and if you wounder into it, you should get out of it ASAP, climb,
descend or 180 degree. If you collect ice on your airframe that you see, you
are in icing conditions and now have violated FAR's and also common sense.
My point is do you really need a heated pitot? No. Run some wires out there,
but leave it off. So what if you pitot gets blocked, you loose what
airspeed? Well you have GPS ground speed. However some "experimental EFIS"
do use airspeed or change in airspeed (ie acceleration) to resolve some
accelerometer error. Even still they work with out airspeed I am told
(Dynon).
If you must have a heated pitot, Dynon makes one for their EFIS with AOA.
http://www.dynonavionics.com/docs/D180_Feature_AOA.html
And these guys make a heated version for experimental's:
http://www.gretzaero.com/
They both have some interesting temp control deal which is nice to keep from
burning it out if you leave it on. Your other choice is ACS or some salvage
yard Cessna or Piper heated pitot, which are old and tired.
Bottom line its going to be about $500 of STUFF sitting out on your wing
when you get it all wired with CB and a few pounds more.
Cheers George
****************************************************************************
*********
Time: 01:34:02 AM PST US
From: Dan Charrois <danlist@syz.com>
Subject: RV-List: Current crop of pitot tubes
Hi all. I'm working on an RV-10 and am at the point now of
considering what kind of pitot tube to put in the thing. The bent
aluminum tube idea, though functional, doesn't really appeal to me.
Though I'm not an IFR pilot at the moment, I don't intend to remain
that way indefinitely, and I'd like to future-proof the plane as much
as practical. So I'm looking at putting in a heated pitot. Up until
now I've been assuming I'd go with a Gretz pitot - I like the idea of
its internal temperature regulation rather than just running at
maximum current draw the whole time it's on. But of course now that
I'm actually ready to get one it appears as though they're not
currently being manufactured and I haven't found anywhere that has
them in stock.
So what other options could anyone out there suggest?
Thanks!
Dan
--
Syzygy Research & Technology
Box 83, Legal, AB T0G 1L0 Canada
Phone: 780-961-2213
****************************************************************************
*********
_____
Be a better friend, newshound, and
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Hi builders,
I could use a little help on engines:
I have started looking for a new engine an I must admit I have sticker
shock. As near as I can tell a new IO 360 M1B type engine from any of the
major experimental builder will cost 22-29K depending on options. SO is
there another way. I was hoping for something more like 18K which is what it
was when I first started doing my project. Since I have the finishing kit
for horizontal induction, I will need to go that way or change the lower
cowl. I'm afraid this may have limited my options. (done before realizing
the issue)
ALso a few questions:
1. ECI solid tappets vs Superior rollor tappets, is this worth $2K?
2. Dual Slicks vs one Slick and one Pmag $500 + or - a little,
thoughts?
3. Horioztal induction, will I save money by going vertical, it seems
if I do change the cowl I will save 1K on the engine, but have to spend $500
on a new lower cowl
Currently I am thiking of an ECI engine from Aerosport but that will come in
a 23K to 24K and is solid lifters. Any thoughts or help is appreciated.
__________________
Carl Bell (CJ)
RV 7A (Finishing kit)
N947CB Reserved
http://www.mykitlog.com/carlbell
carlbell@gforcecable.com
Aiken, SC
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Current crop of pitot tubes |
George
There are a few too many absolutes in your post. For a/c not certified for
"known icing", unexpectedly encountering icing is not a FAR violation - it
is however a dangerous situation. FAR's prohibit intentional flight into
"known icing".
Having a heated pitot in my PA28 or my in -10 (still in pieces) does not
mean that I intend to get into an icing situation. It does mean that I am
taking reasonable safety precautions to help me manage the situation in the
unlikely event that it does happen. This same attitude means that I would
not buy a car without airbags even though I do not intend to get into an
accident.
I am sure that in your 12k hours, you have seen more than a few situations
where reality has not matched the forecast. Being prepared for the
unexpected is just good common sense.
Cheers
Les
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com
Sent: April-26-08 4:15 AM
Subject: RV-List: Re: Current crop of pitot tubes
Before I make my two suggestions here is why you should not install one.
Deviation for Vans plans will add weight, cost and build time. Yes you are
right you don't need a heated pitot as a VFR pilot. In fact you don't need
one for an IFR plane either (please read the regs before you dispute this).
As a pilot with over 12,000 hrs and many 1000's of yours in IMC you can't
get icing unless you are in cloud or in freezing precipitation and the temp
is below freezing. Very simple no mosture no ice. No freezing or
sub-freezing temp no ice. Avoid one or both no ice. So you get into icing in
your IFR RV-10 when you get your rating. FIRST you should have your ticket
taken back since you should NOT be in icing. You have no business being in
it, and if you wounder into it, you should get out of it ASAP, climb,
descend or 180 degree. If you collect ice on your airframe that you see, you
are in icing conditions and now have violated FAR's and also common sense.
My point is do you really need a heated pitot? No. Run some wires out there,
but leave it off. So what if you pitot gets blocked, you loose what
airspeed? Well you have GPS ground speed. However some "experimental EFIS"
do use airspeed or change in airspeed (ie acceleration) to resolve some
accelerometer error. Even still they work with out airspeed I am told
(Dynon).
If you must have a heated pitot, Dynon makes one for their EFIS with AOA.
http://www.dynonavionics.com/docs/D180_Feature_AOA.html
And these guys make a heated version for experimental's:
http://www.gretzaero.com/
They both have some interesting temp control deal which is nice to keep from
burning it out if you leave it on. Your other choice is ACS or some salvage
yard Cessna or Piper heated pitot, which are old and tired.
Bottom line its going to be about $500 of STUFF sitting out on your wing
when you get it all wired with CB and a few pounds more.
Cheers George
****************************************************************************
*********
Time: 01:34:02 AM PST US
From: Dan Charrois <danlist@syz.com>
Subject: RV-List: Current crop of pitot tubes
Hi all. I'm working on an RV-10 and am at the point now of
considering what kind of pitot tube to put in the thing. The bent
aluminum tube idea, though functional, doesn't really appeal to me.
Though I'm not an IFR pilot at the moment, I don't intend to remain
that way indefinitely, and I'd like to future-proof the plane as much
as practical. So I'm looking at putting in a heated pitot. Up until
now I've been assuming I'd go with a Gretz pitot - I like the idea of
its internal temperature regulation rather than just running at
maximum current draw the whole time it's on. But of course now that
I'm actually ready to get one it appears as though they're not
currently being manufactured and I haven't found anywhere that has
them in stock.
So what other options could anyone out there suggest?
Thanks!
Dan
--
Syzygy Research & Technology
Box 83, Legal, AB T0G 1L0 Canada
Phone: 780-961-2213
****************************************************************************
*********
_____
Be a better friend, newshound, and
Message 6
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Try Aeroengines of Winchester,Va. Their phone number is 540-678-1661 and as
k for Tom. Their prices
and work are very good.
Cheers,
Craig
From: carlbell@gforcecable.comTo: rv-list@matronics.comSubject: RV-List: IO
360 Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 14:50:01 -0400
Hi builders,I could use a little help on engines: I have started looking fo
r a new engine an I must admit I have sticker shock. As near as I can tell
a new IO 360 M1B type engine from any of the major experimental builder wil
l cost 22-29K depending on options. SO is there another way. I was hoping f
or something more like 18K which is what it was when I first started doing
my project. Since I have the finishing kit for horizontal induction, I will
need to go that way or change the lower cowl. I'm afraid this may have lim
ited my options. (done before realizing the issue) ALso a few questions:
ECI solid tappets vs Superior rollor tappets, is this worth $2K?
Dual Slicks vs one Slick and one Pmag $500 + or - a little, thoughts?
Horioztal induction, will I save money by going vertical, it seems if I do
change the cowl I will save 1K on the engine, but have to spend $500 on a n
ew lower cowl
Currently I am thiking of an ECI engine from Aerosport but that will come i
n a 23K to 24K and is solid lifters. Any thoughts or help is appreciated.
__________________Carl Bell (CJ)RV 7A (Finishing kit)N947CB Reservedhttp://
www.mykitlog.com/carlbellcarlbell@gforcecable.comAiken, SC
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself wherever you are. Mobilize!
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| Subject: | Four New Email Lists At Matronics!! |
Dear Listers,
I have added four new Lists to the Matronics line up today. These include the
following categories:
Citabria-List Citabria, Decathlon, Scout, and Champ
Zenith601-List Zenair Zodiac CH 601
Zenith640-List Zenair Zodiac CH 640
Zenith701801-List Zenair STOL CH 701 and CH 801
All services are enabled and now available including Search, Browse, Digest, Archives,
Forums, Chat, etc., etc. etc...:
Citabria:
http://www.matronics.com/navigator?citabria-list
Zenith601:
http://www.matronics.com/navigator?zenith601-list
Zenith640:
http://www.matronics.com/navigator?zenith640-list
Zenith701801:
http://www.matronics.com/navigator?zenith701801-list
To subscribe, go to the Matronics Email List Subscription Form:
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
To check the new Lists out on the Matronics Forum go here:
http://forums.matronics.com
Enjoy the new Lists!! Don't forget me during the Fund Raiser! :-)
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
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In 2008 there should be no engine manfacturers selling anything but roll
er lifters... Geez...
do not archive
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:of
fice" />Hi builders,
I could use a little help on engines:
I have started looking for a new engine an I must admit I have sticker s
hock. As near as I can tell a new IO 360 M1B type engine from any of the
major experimental builder will cost 22-29K depending on options. SO is
there another way. I was hoping for something more like 18K which is wh
at it was when I first started doing my project. Since I have the finish
ing kit for horizontal induction, I will need to go that way or change t
he lower cowl. I'm afraid this may have limited my options. (done before
realizing the issue)
ALso a few questions:
ECI solid tappets vs <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-
microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />Superior rollor tappets, is this worth
$2K?
Dual Slicks vs one Slick and one Pmag $500 + or - a little, thoughts?
Horioztal induction, will I save money by going vertical, it seems if I
do change the cowl I will save 1K on the engine, but have to spend $500
on a new lower cowl
Currently I am thiking of an ECI engine from Aerosport but that will com
e in a 23K to 24K and is solid lifters. Any thoughts or help is apprecia
ted.
__________________
Carl Bell (CJ)
RV 7A (Finishing kit)
N947CB Reserved
http://www.mykitlog.com/carlbell
carlbell@gforcecable.com
Aiken, SC
========================
========================
========================
========================
========================
========================
_____________________________________________________________
Click to find deals on GPS Systems, don't get lost.
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2221/fc/Ioyw6i4uMR73TcYxjVbtMzfP1
mrXvh2qvouTzAMECOdwnsFgmisOdd/
Message 9
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[quote="Leland Collins"]I've had the same problem with my 4-year old Garmin 296 being unable to lock onto satellites after loosing its internal date. I think its a dead battery problem because the battery looses about 20% of its charge overnight. I just ordered a new battery from www.batteriesamerica.com for $59 plus $11 shipping. Garmin supposedly now has the part number 010-10517-01 as a replacement for the original 011-00955-00 unit. The replacement part has a larger capacity rating. The replacement unit is the same for the 396 and 496.
Leland[/quote]
I changed the main battery and the problem is still there. If I do not fly the
plane for several days, the unit stops tracking the date/time. Now the question
is: Is it possible to change the "time" battery without sending it to Garmin?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=179502#179502
Message 10
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No IO-360 uses solid lifters. I'm sure you meant hydraulic lifters with
flat faces, as opposed to roller tip lifters that Lyc introduced a few
years ago. There is no power benefit from Pmag so why spend the money?
Carl Bell wrote:
>
> Hi builders,
>
> I could use a little help on engines:
>
> I have started looking for a new engine an I must admit I have sticker
> shock. As near as I can tell a new IO 360 M1B type engine from any of
> the major experimental builder will cost 22-29K depending on options.
> SO is there another way. I was hoping for something more like 18K
> which is what it was when I first started doing my project. Since I
> have the finishing kit for horizontal induction, I will need to go
> that way or change the lower cowl. I'm afraid this may have limited my
> options. (done before realizing the issue)
> ALso a few questions:
>
> 1. ECI solid tappets vs Superior rollor tappets, is this worth $2K?
> 2. Dual Slicks vs one Slick and one Pmag $500 + or - a little,
> thoughts?
> 3. Horioztal induction, will I save money by going vertical, it
> seems if I do change the cowl I will save 1K on the engine, but
> have to spend $500 on a new lower cowl
>
> Currently I am thiking of an ECI engine from Aerosport but that will
> come in a 23K to 24K and is solid lifters. Any thoughts or help is
> appreciated.
>
> __________________
> Carl Bell (CJ)
> RV 7A (Finishing kit)
> N947CB Reserved
> http://www.mykitlog.com/carlbell
> carlbell@gforcecable.com <mailto:carlbell@gforcecable.com>
> Aiken, SC
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
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Call Garmin first and let them take you through the troubleshooting steps.
There is a memory corruption issue that causes the same symptoms. If they
can confirm the real time clock battery really is bad, they might replace
it.
Regards,
Greg Young
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Leland Collins
> Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 9:15 PM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Re: Garmin 296
>
>
> [quote="Leland Collins"]I've had the same problem with my
> 4-year old Garmin 296 being unable to lock onto satellites
> after loosing its internal date. I think its a dead battery
> problem because the battery looses about 20% of its charge
> overnight. I just ordered a new battery from
> www.batteriesamerica.com for $59 plus $11 shipping. Garmin
> supposedly now has the part number 010-10517-01 as a
> replacement for the original 011-00955-00 unit. The
> replacement part has a larger capacity rating. The
> replacement unit is the same for the 396 and 496.
> Leland[/quote]
> I changed the main battery and the problem is still there. If
> I do not fly the plane for several days, the unit stops
> tracking the date/time. Now the question is: Is it possible
> to change the "time" battery without sending it to Garmin?
>
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