Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:31 AM - Emailing: P1300045 (David McNeill)
2. 05:38 AM - Re: Local crash and my media interview (Dave Leikam)
3. 05:56 AM - Re: **Possible_Spam** Re: Local crash and my media interview (Tom Ganster)
4. 07:00 AM - Re: Local crash and my media interview (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
5. 07:39 AM - Re: Local crash and my media interview (Rick Sked)
6. 07:44 AM - Re: Local crash and my media interview (Tim Olson)
7. 08:58 AM - Re: Speedbrake installation kit for RV-10 (Lenny Iszak)
8. 10:15 AM - Re: Re: Speedbrake installation kit for RV-10 (David McNeill)
9. 10:32 AM - Re: Re: Speedbrake installation kit for RV-10 (Tim Olson)
10. 11:21 AM - Re: Re: Speed brake installation kit for RV-10 (John Cox)
11. 12:59 PM - Re: Speedbrake installation kit for RV-10 (woxofswa)
12. 01:32 PM - Re: Re: Speed brake installation kit for RV-10 (John Cox)
13. 02:19 PM - Re: Re: Speed brake installation kit for RV-10 (MauleDriver)
14. 02:48 PM - Tail light/strobe (A500) offer if needed (pascal)
15. 03:08 PM - Re: Tail light/strobe (A500) offer if needed (Dickk9@aol.com)
16. 03:27 PM - Re: Re: Speed brake installation kit for RV-10 (William Curtis)
17. 03:32 PM - Chelton limits file (David McNeill)
18. 03:55 PM - Re: Re: Speed brake installation kit for RV-10 (Rick Sked)
19. 04:11 PM - Re: Re: Speed brake installation kit for RV-10 (William Curtis)
20. 04:22 PM - Re: Re: Speed brake installation kit for RV-10 (Kelly McMullen)
21. 04:52 PM - Re: Re: Speedbrake installation kit for RV-10 (Tim Olson)
22. 04:53 PM - Elevator Skin Trailing Edge Bowing... (Matt Dralle)
23. 05:58 PM - Re: Re: Speedbrake installation kit for RV-10 (ddddsp1@juno.com)
24. 06:13 PM - Re: Tail light/strobe (A500) offer if needed (pascal)
25. 06:59 PM - eBay listings for mag, gears and starter (jayb)
26. 07:21 PM - RV10 Upholstery Shop (Ronald Grover)
27. 08:38 PM - Re: Local crash and my media interview (Bill DeRouchey)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Emailing: P1300045 |
Ricks interview and comments again brought to mind my own findings with the
10. These aircraft engines rarely fail for catastrophic mechanical reasons.
Almost always they fail for lack of fuel, fire or air. The attached picture
shows the bottom of an orange bucket after the flush of my QB tanks with
mineral spirits. Note the black specks on the bottom. It took multiple
flushes of each tank, first with mineral spirits and then with av gas, to
remove the flakes of pro seal. Even after 50 hours and multiple fill ups I
still got a speck the size of a pinhead from the left tank sump. It may have
been stopped by the screen, at any rate it washed into the sump drain valve.
Suggest flushing the tanks, deburring the flares on the aluminium, and
blowing out the lines with compressed air.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Local crash and my media interview |
I watched the ignorant, fear-spun media video. I guess I'll go out in
my "cobble" shop and start slapping together my internet, mail order
airplane again. I really hate the media.
Dave Leikam
RV-10 #40496
N89DA (Reserved)
Muskego, WI
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Sked
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2008 1:51 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Local crash and my media interview
I think I did Ok...I had my cabin off during the initial interview, I
put it on for the wrap up..it's ready so why not. Heres the link, my
part isn't there yet but maybe in the morning they will post it.
Thanks for the responses!!
http://www.lasvegasnow.com/global/story.asp?s=8883721
Rick Sked
Starting new diet again tomorrow!!! :)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Sked" <ricksked@embarqmail.com>
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 8:11:55 PM (GMT-0800)
America/Los_Angeles
Subject: RV10-List: Local crash and my media interview
After a Velocity 173 RG went down today into a house at VGT, the
airport manager for Clark County is calling for a ban of all
experimental aircraft at HND, VGT, LAS. I was contacted by the media
today to comment on behalf of experimental and home built aircraft, I'm
friends with the CBS affiliate news director and he knows about my
project. The news crew spent over an hour looking and filming all the
time interviewing me. at my RV-10, and asking a bunch of
questions...since I have a background in litigation's and depositions
the cub reporter didn't get a leg up on me when trying to get me to
agree or disagree with the comments of the Airport Manager. But there is
always the edit thing to consider and out of context stuff I'm sure I
may have to defend. Bottom line, a Velocity lost power on take off and
went right into a residential home 1 mile south of the runway..killing
the 2 homeowners and the pilot. The news managed to get a copy of the
local EAA chapter news letter that said...August- Too hot to fly!!! This
was in regards to other months where fly outs were planned. So they
assumed it's too hot to fly!!! I explained density altitude to the deer
in the headlight reporter. The velocity departed at 0630 local...temp
was about 85 max...no factor for a good running Velocity. I did my best
to defend our hobby and passion. Explain the 51 percent rule, challenged
any one to examine my aircraft, even encouraged it. I must have said
choices and risk management 20 times. Talked about weather and knowing
the limitations of yourself and your rating, how important fuel
management was. Didn't speculate on the crash today except that it was
tragic and y thoughts and prayers went out to all who experienced a
loss. Showed them the RV-10 plans, showed them the FAA circular 43.13
and how we complied with these best practices, showed them my panel all
fired up, told them our creed in the EAA was education and recreation. I
really went to bat for how we do things better becasue they are our
airplanes and our families. They want to come back at 11 PM.... UGH and
go live with me...I have an hour to respond...what do you guys think???
I know it's late...should I put myself out there again, live on TV??
Those watching let me know your thoughts..we have about an hour before I
need to call and say yes or no....I really hope I did us proud, the EAA
and all of the members proud and everyone of us who enjoy this freedom.
Comment fast please if your there.
Rick Sked
40185
15 minutes of fame
----- Original Message -----
From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007@cox.net>
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 7:32:11 PM (GMT-0800)
America/Los_Angeles
Subject: RE: RV10-List: LAS visit
LAS was never a consideration; I was there a couple of times a few
years ago and noticed the dramatically rising fees to keep GA out.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robin Marks
Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 7:21 PM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV10-List: LAS visit
I second Rene=99s suggestion. I fly into Vegas a lot and prefer
HND. It has recently been remodeled and upgraded. You will be on the
strip as fast or faster going to HND then LAS. If you reserve a
rent-a-car ahead it is in and out. They have a courtesy van to transport
you, PAX and luggage to the terminal. I think it=99s $5 or $10 max
/ overnight. I have paid a $50.00 landing fee at LAS.
Robin
Do Not Archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rene
Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 5:48 AM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV10-List: LAS visit
I have flown into Vegas at least a half of dozen times and have found
HND (Henderson) to be my favorite. LAS is not bad if you can find a
parking spot, but that is hard to do. On an Angel Flight mission, I
flew into LAS arriving about 30 minutes after sun up and it was
beautiful, the controller had me fly toward the Stratosphere, then hang
a left basically flying parallel to the strip, wish I would have had a
video camera.
HND is about 10 miles to the south, plenty of ramp space, very nice
FBO (run by the city I think), and a shuttle to take you to the Strip.
Fuel was $5.40 when I was there on the 4th of July.
Rene'
801-721-6080
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill
Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 5:43 AM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: LAS visit
I will be in LAS for the dates Sept 29 ,30, Oct 1 for a company
reunion; I will be staying on the strip. Any recommendations for
airports, hangars, fuel etc. There should be enough time for a ride or
two.
N46007 flying
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comht
tp://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comht
tp://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com/" target=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com
= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Local crash and my media interview |
Same here. I planned to go out and cobble this morning also.
Tom Ganster 40778 wings
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Leikam
Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2008 7:38 AM
Subject: **Possible_Spam** Re: RV10-List: Local crash and my media
interview
I watched the ignorant, fear-spun media video. I guess I'll go out in
my
"cobble" shop and start slapping together my internet, mail order
airplane
again. I really hate the media.
Dave Leikam
RV-10 #40496
N89DA (Reserved)
Muskego, WI
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Sked <mailto:ricksked@embarqmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2008 1:51 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Local crash and my media interview
I think I did Ok...I had my cabin off during the initial interview, I
put it
on for the wrap up..it's ready so why not. Heres the link, my part isn't
there yet but maybe in the morning they will post it.
Thanks for the responses!!
http://www.lasvegasnow.com/global/story.asp?s=8883721
Rick Sked
Starting new diet again tomorrow!!! :)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Sked" <ricksked@embarqmail.com>
Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 8:11:55 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
Subject: RV10-List: Local crash and my media interview
After a Velocity 173 RG went down today into a house at VGT, the
airport
manager for Clark County is calling for a ban of all experimental
aircraft
at HND, VGT, LAS. I was contacted by the media today to comment on
behalf of
experimental and home built aircraft, I'm friends with the CBS affiliate
news director and he knows about my project. The news crew spent over an
hour looking and filming all the time interviewing me. at my RV-10, and
asking a bunch of questions...since I have a background in litigation's
and
depositions the cub reporter didn't get a leg up on me when trying to
get me
to agree or disagree with the comments of the Airport Manager. But there
is
always the edit thing to consider and out of context stuff I'm sure I
may
have to defend. Bottom line, a Velocity lost power on take off and went
right into a residential home 1 mile south of the runway..killing the 2
homeowners and the pilot. The news managed to get a copy of the local
EAA
chapter news letter that said...August- Too hot to fly!!! This was in
regards to other months where fly outs were planned. So they assumed
it's
too hot to fly!!! I explained density altitude to the deer in the
headlight
reporter. The velocity departed at 0630 local...temp was about 85
max...no
factor for a good running Velocity. I did my best to defend our hobby
and
passion. Explain the 51 percent rule, challenged any one to examine my
aircraft, even encouraged it. I must have said choices and risk
management
20 times. Talked about weather and knowing the limitations of yourself
and
your rating, how important fuel management was. Didn't speculate on the
crash today except that it was tragic and y thoughts and prayers went
out to
all who experienced a loss. Showed them the RV-10 plans, showed them the
FAA
circular 43.13 and how we complied with these best practices, showed
them my
panel all fired up, told them our creed in the EAA was education and
recreation. I really went to bat for how we do things better becasue
they
are our airplanes and our families. They want to come back at 11 PM....
UGH
and go live with me...I have an hour to respond...what do you guys
think???
I know it's late...should I put myself out there again, live on TV??
Those
watching let me know your thoughts..we have about an hour before I need
to
call and say yes or no....I really hope I did us proud, the EAA and all
of
the members proud and everyone of us who enjoy this freedom. Comment
fast
please if your there.
Rick Sked
40185
15 minutes of fame
----- Original Message -----
From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007@cox.net>
Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 7:32:11 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
Subject: RE: RV10-List: LAS visit
LAS was never a consideration; I was there a couple of times a few years
ago
and noticed the dramatically rising fees to keep GA out.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robin Marks
Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 7:21 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: LAS visit
I second Rene's suggestion. I fly into Vegas a lot and prefer HND. It
has
recently been remodeled and upgraded. You will be on the strip as fast
or
faster going to HND then LAS. If you reserve a rent-a-car ahead it is in
and
out. They have a courtesy van to transport you, PAX and luggage to the
terminal. I think it's $5 or $10 max / overnight. I have paid a $50.00
landing fee at LAS.
Robin
Do Not Archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rene
Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 5:48 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: LAS visit
I have flown into Vegas at least a half of dozen times and have found
HND
(Henderson) to be my favorite. LAS is not bad if you can find a parking
spot, but that is hard to do. On an Angel Flight mission, I flew into
LAS
arriving about 30 minutes after sun up and it was beautiful, the
controller
had me fly toward the Stratosphere, then hang a left basically flying
parallel to the strip, wish I would have had a video camera.
HND is about 10 miles to the south, plenty of ramp space, very nice FBO
(run
by the city I think), and a shuttle to take you to the Strip. Fuel was
$5.40 when I was there on the 4th of July.
Rene'
801-721-6080
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill
Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 5:43 AM
Subject: RV10-List: LAS visit
I will be in LAS for the dates Sept 29 ,30, Oct 1 for a company reunion;
I
will be staying on the strip. Any recommendations for airports, hangars,
fuel etc. There should be enough time for a ride or two.
N46007 flying
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com/>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic
s.com
/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com/" target=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com
= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic
s.com
/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
8/22/2008
6:32 PM
Message 4
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| Subject: | Local crash and my media interview |
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| Subject: | Re: Local crash and my media interview |
yeah right...lost weight...the camera will shame you back to go another 30
lbs. 35 wasn't enough.=C2-They haven't put my piece up on the web...but i
t was edited pretty well and I think it defened how safe our aircraft reall
y are.. I have it on the DVR, any geeks want to tell me how to get it onto
my computer?
Rick
----- Original Message -----
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder@sausen.net>
Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2008 6:58:17 AM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Local crash and my media interview
=C2- I love the way they said that no one from the local EAA chapter woul
d talk to them. =C2-Guess you lost so much weight Rick that you were invi
sible on camera!=C2- You must have done your job well because they appare
ntly couldn=99t put any negative spin on anything you said.=C2- It
=99s Vegas and everything is showmanship.
=C2- News isn=99t unbiased news reporting anymore, it=99s all
about the shock and aw value and ratings that it brings.=C2- That jackas
s needs to remember who he works for and who is paying for his airports.
=C2-Fox News had a real quick blurb on it that was agreeing with that too
l but that was it.=C2- Nothing again the rest of the afternoon after that
30 second spot thankfully.=C2- I=99m guessing that AOPA and their
own staff pilots got to them real fast.=C2- What a d-bag.
=C2- Sorry don=99t normally get this worked up but this guy is almo
st as bad as Mayor Daley who is the king of tools and the epitome of Chicag
o politics.
Do not archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Sked
Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2008 1:51 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Local crash and my media interview
I think I did Ok...I had my cabin off during the initial interview, I put i
t on for the wrap up..it's ready so why not. Heres the link, my part isn't
there yet but maybe in the morning they will post it.
Thanks for the responses!!
http://www.lasvegasnow.com/global/story.asp?s=8883721
Rick Sked
Starting new diet again tomorrow!!!=C2- :)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Sked" <ricksked@embarqmail.com>
Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 8:11:55 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
Subject: RV10-List: Local crash and my media interview
After a=C2- Velocity 173 RG=C2-went down today into a house at VGT, the
airport manager for Clark County is calling for a ban of all experimental
aircraft at HND, VGT, LAS. I was contacted by the media today to comment on
behalf of experimental and home built aircraft, I'm friends with the CBS a
ffiliate news director and he knows about my project. The news crew spent o
ver an hour looking and filming all the time interviewing me.=C2-at my RV
-10, and asking a bunch of questions...since I have a background in litigat
ion's and depositions the cub reporter didn't get a leg up on me when tryin
g to get me to agree or disagree with the comments of the Airport Manager.
But there is always the edit thing to consider and out of context stuff I'm
sure I may have to defend. Bottom line, a Velocity lost power on take off
and went right into a residential home 1 mile south of the runway..killing
the 2=C2-homeowners and the pilot. The news managed to get a copy of the
local EAA chapter news letter that said...August- Too hot to fly!!! This wa
s in regards to other months where fly outs were planned. So they assumed i
t's too hot to fly!!! I explained density altitude to the deer in the headl
ight reporter.=C2-The velocity departed at 0630 local...temp was about 85
max...no factor=C2-for a good running Velocity. I did my best to defend
our hobby and passion. Explain the 51 percent rule, challenged any one to e
xamine my aircraft, even encouraged it. I must have said choices and risk m
anagement 20 times. Talked about weather and knowing the limitations of you
rself and your rating, how important fuel management was. Didn't speculate
on the crash today except that it was tragic and y thoughts and prayers wen
t out to all who experienced a loss. Showed them the RV-10 plans, showed th
em the FAA circular 43.13 and how we complied with these best practices, sh
owed them my panel all fired up, told them our creed in the EAA was educati
on and recreation. I really went to bat for how we do things better becasue
they are our airplanes and our families.=C2-They want to come back at 11
PM.... UGH and go live with me...I have an hour to respond...what do you g
uys think??? I know it's late...should I put myself out there again, live o
n TV?? Those watching let me know your thoughts..we have about an hour befo
re I need to call and say yes or no....I really hope I did us proud, the EA
A and all of the members proud and everyone of us who enjoy this freedom. C
omment fast please if your there.
Rick Sked
40185
15 minutes of fame
----- Original Message -----
From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007@cox.net>
Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 7:32:11 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
Subject: RE: RV10-List: LAS visit
LAS was never a consideration; I was there a couple of times a few years ag
o and noticed the dramatically rising fees to keep GA out.
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Robin Marks
Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 7:21 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: LAS visit
I second Rene=99s suggestion. I fly into Vegas a lot and prefer HND.
It has recently been remodeled and upgraded. You will be on the strip as fa
st or faster going to HND then LAS. If you reserve a rent-a-car ahead it is
in and out. They have a courtesy van to transport you, PAX and luggage to
the terminal. I think it=99s $5 or $10 max / overnight. I have paid a
$50.00 landing fee at LAS.
Robin
Do Not Archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Rene
Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 5:48 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: LAS visit
I have flown into Vegas at least a half of dozen times and have found HND (
Henderson) to be my favorite. LAS is not bad if you can find a parking spot
, but that is hard to do.=C2- On an Angel Flight mission, I flew into LAS
arriving about 30 minutes after sun up and it was beautiful, the controlle
r had me fly toward the Stratosphere, then hang a left basically flying par
allel to the strip, wish I would have had a video camera.=C2-
HND is about 10 miles to the south, plenty of ramp space, very nice FBO (ru
n by the city I think), and a shuttle to take you to the Strip.=C2- Fuel
was $5.40 when I was there on the 4 th of July.
Rene'
801-721-6080
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill
Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 5:43 AM
Subject: RV10-List: LAS visit
I will be in LAS for the dates Sept 29 ,30, Oct 1 for a company reunion; I
will be staying on the strip. Any recommendations for airports, hangars, fu
el etc. There should be enough time for a ride or two.
N46007 flying =C2- =C2- http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List ht
tp://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution =C2- =C2
- =C2- http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List http://forums.matro
nics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution =C2- =C2- =C2- href=
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Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Local crash and my media interview |
Almost *thankfully* the idiot wants to ban flight training and
solo flights and things like that too. That will mean that
the various organizations may be more willing to jump in to fight
it off. If it were "just" experimentals it may not get as
firmly quenched.
It does show how damaging one single incident can be for us all,
and gives even larger reason to make sure we all fly and build
safe. And, if you have to put it down somewhere, try to aim
for a spot where you're not likely to take anyone with you.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:
> I love the way they said that no one from the local EAA chapter would
> talk to them. Guess you lost so much weight Rick that you were
> invisible on camera! You must have done your job well because they
> apparently couldnt put any negative spin on anything you said. Its
> Vegas and everything is showmanship.
>
>
>
> News isnt unbiased news reporting anymore, its all about the shock
> and aw value and ratings that it brings. That jackass needs to remember
> who he works for and who is paying for his airports. Fox News had a
> real quick blurb on it that was agreeing with that tool but that was
> it. Nothing again the rest of the afternoon after that 30 second spot
> thankfully. Im guessing that AOPA and their own staff pilots got to
> them real fast. What a d-bag.
>
>
>
> Sorry dont normally get this worked up but this guy is almost as bad
> as Mayor Daley who is the king of tools and the epitome of Chicago politics.
>
>
>
> Do not archive
>
>
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Rick Sked
> *Sent:* Saturday, August 23, 2008 1:51 AM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: Local crash and my media interview
>
>
>
> I think I did Ok...I had my cabin off during the initial interview, I
> put it on for the wrap up..it's ready so why not. Heres the link, my
> part isn't there yet but maybe in the morning they will post it.
>
> Thanks for the responses!!
>
> http://www.lasvegasnow.com/global/story.asp?s=8883721
>
> Rick Sked
>
> Starting new diet again tomorrow!!! :)
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rick Sked" <ricksked@embarqmail.com>
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 8:11:55 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
> Subject: RV10-List: Local crash and my media interview
>
> After a Velocity 173 RG went down today into a house at VGT, the
> airport manager for Clark County is calling for a ban of all
> experimental aircraft at HND, VGT, LAS. I was contacted by the media
> today to comment on behalf of experimental and home built aircraft, I'm
> friends with the CBS affiliate news director and he knows about my
> project. The news crew spent over an hour looking and filming all the
> time interviewing me. at my RV-10, and asking a bunch of
> questions...since I have a background in litigation's and depositions
> the cub reporter didn't get a leg up on me when trying to get me to
> agree or disagree with the comments of the Airport Manager. But there is
> always the edit thing to consider and out of context stuff I'm sure I
> may have to defend. Bottom line, a Velocity lost power on take off and
> went right into a residential home 1 mile south of the runway..killing
> the 2 homeowners and the pilot. The news managed to get a copy of the
> local EAA chapter news letter that said...August- Too hot to fly!!! This
> was in regards to other months where fly outs were planned. So they
> assumed it's too hot to fly!!! I explained density altitude to the deer
> in the headlight reporter. The velocity departed at 0630 local...temp
> was about 85 max...no factor for a good running Velocity. I did my best
> to defend our hobby and passion. Explain the 51 percent rule, challenged
> any one to examine my aircraft, even encouraged it. I must have said
> choices and risk management 20 times. Talked about weather and knowing
> the limitations of yourself and your rating, how important fuel
> management was. Didn't speculate on the crash today except that it was
> tragic and y thoughts and prayers went out to all who experienced a
> loss. Showed them the RV-10 plans, showed them the FAA circular 43.13
> and how we complied with these best practices, showed them my panel all
> fired up, told them our creed in the EAA was education and recreation. I
> really went to bat for how we do things better becasue they are our
> airplanes and our families. They want to come back at 11 PM.... UGH and
> go live with me...I have an hour to respond...what do you guys think???
> I know it's late...should I put myself out there again, live on TV??
> Those watching let me know your thoughts..we have about an hour before I
> need to call and say yes or no....I really hope I did us proud, the EAA
> and all of the members proud and everyone of us who enjoy this freedom.
> Comment fast please if your there.
>
> Rick Sked
>
> 40185
>
> 15 minutes of fame
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007@cox.net>
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 7:32:11 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: LAS visit
>
> LAS was never a consideration; I was there a couple of times a few years
> ago and noticed the dramatically rising fees to keep GA out.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Robin Marks
> *Sent:* Friday, August 22, 2008 7:21 PM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: LAS visit
>
> I second Renes suggestion. I fly into Vegas a lot and prefer HND. It
> has recently been remodeled and upgraded. You will be on the strip as
> fast or faster going to HND then LAS. If you reserve a rent-a-car ahead
> it is in and out. They have a courtesy van to transport you, PAX and
> luggage to the terminal. I think its $5 or $10 max / overnight. I have
> paid a $50.00 landing fee at LAS.
>
> Robin
>
>
> Do Not Archive
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Rene
> *Sent:* Friday, August 22, 2008 5:48 AM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: LAS visit
>
>
>
> I have flown into Vegas at least a half of dozen times and have found
> HND (Henderson) to be my favorite. LAS is not bad if you can find a
> parking spot, but that is hard to do. On an Angel Flight mission, I
> flew into LAS arriving about 30 minutes after sun up and it was
> beautiful, the controller had me fly toward the Stratosphere, then hang
> a left basically flying parallel to the strip, wish I would have had a
> video camera.
>
>
>
> HND is about 10 miles to the south, plenty of ramp space, very nice FBO
> (run by the city I think), and a shuttle to take you to the Strip. Fuel
> was $5.40 when I was there on the 4^th of July.
>
>
>
> Rene'
>
> 801-721-6080
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *David McNeill
> *Sent:* Friday, August 22, 2008 5:43 AM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RV10-List: LAS visit
>
>
>
> I will be in LAS for the dates Sept 29 ,30, Oct 1 for a company reunion;
> I will be staying on the strip. Any recommendations for airports,
> hangars, fuel etc. There should be enough time for a ride or two.
>
>
>
>
>
> N46007 flying
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com/>*
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> *href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
>
> *href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> *href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c*
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> * http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
>
> *ttp://forums.matronics.com/" target=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> *= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> *get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
>
> *p://forums.matronics.com*
>
> *blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> * *
>
> ~,gM4Gqz.'8E]t.+-fZ+`axr^jzZ(j|n)b'!j'+ry'C
> { ,x(ZP!jrr
> 'ojj+E]t.+-i0fr(Z(W]
hM $NEC&z
> j(lVj^Yikx&i
> kx&B{ky.+jY^.+-i0fr((nbxm-&j',rr&*''k{w/tml
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Speedbrake installation kit for RV-10 |
I've thought about installing speed brakes, however I never flown with them. While
I understand the benefits of having them, I'm not sure if they would be necessary
on the 10.
Could anyone with more experience share their thoughts?
Regards,
Lenny
#40803
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 0091#200091
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Speedbrake installation kit for RV-10 |
There are a couple of instances where it would be nice to have the speed
brakes. (1) on top of an icy cloud layer and a descent is required through
it; (2) a IFR approach at 120+ for spacing and needing to slow 70kts to land
at the Class B airports; (3) a descent in rough air where the descent must
be rapid but there is a requirement to keep airspeed below Va. There are
occasional instances where speed brakes would be nice but the cost and time
to install does not justify for my current flying. I will keep my $10000 and
exercise a little prior planning which will all know prevents PP
performance.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lenny Iszak
Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2008 8:56 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Speedbrake installation kit for RV-10
--> <lenard@rapiddecision.com>
I've thought about installing speed brakes, however I never flown with them.
While I understand the benefits of having them, I'm not sure if they would
be necessary on the 10.
Could anyone with more experience share their thoughts?
Regards,
Lenny
#40803
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 0091#200091
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Speedbrake installation kit for RV-10 |
I never thought it was something that was needed, but after thinking
about it and some traveling, I can see why SOME people might want
to add them. If you have to stay high and then suddenly drop a lot
of altitude, especially in turbulence, they could be very handy.
The RV-10 picks up quite a bit of speed if you push it downhill...
and you will always end up well over Va and any reasonable turbulence
penetration speed trying to get down. Now flying where I am from,
it's no big deal. I live at 1000'msl and I can descend for many
many miles and take my time if I want. But if you lived in an
area where you do things like cross a mountain and have to suddenly
drop lots of altitude to get to your home strip, I can see them
being real handy. Necessary? No, you can get by without them I'm
sure, but for a handful of individuals, they could be a nice
addition. For most people, the cost alone would be good reason
not to, because I think if you're a flatlander you may not get
much use out of them.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Lenny Iszak wrote:
>
> I've thought about installing speed brakes, however I never flown with them.
While I understand the benefits of having them, I'm not sure if they would be
necessary on the 10.
> Could anyone with more experience share their thoughts?
>
> Regards,
> Lenny
> #40803
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 0091#200091
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Speed brake installation kit for RV-10 |
Clear and accurate as always Tim.
The ability to climb faster (Hartzell 3 blade composite) and descend
faster through altitude/weather is not necessarily a needed improvement
in the RV-10. Some will say it is already - PERFECT.
For those in the Pacific Northwest, these attributes and the ability to
stop mass more quickly (Tim James brake mod) can enhance an already
great design. Coming over the top of the Cascade Range from Bend to
Portland at 13,500 for 5,000 in front of a Boeing heavy, it was a real
eye-opener. Airspeed stayed constant at 150 KIAS, descent rate went
from 500 fpm to 2,000 fpm for just what seemed like a moment. Then
Approach Control said, "You are cleared in front of the Heavy on 10 mile
final for 28L, contact ground on 121.9.
What a rush.
YMMV
John Cox
Do Not Archive
All mods slow the build time and increase the price. Some like OBAM
that way.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2008 10:29 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Speedbrake installation kit for RV-10
I never thought it was something that was needed, but after thinking
about it and some traveling, I can see why SOME people might want
to add them. If you have to stay high and then suddenly drop a lot
of altitude, especially in turbulence, they could be very handy.
The RV-10 picks up quite a bit of speed if you push it downhill...
and you will always end up well over Va and any reasonable turbulence
penetration speed trying to get down. Now flying where I am from,
it's no big deal. I live at 1000'msl and I can descend for many
many miles and take my time if I want. But if you lived in an
area where you do things like cross a mountain and have to suddenly
drop lots of altitude to get to your home strip, I can see them
being real handy. Necessary? No, you can get by without them I'm
sure, but for a handful of individuals, they could be a nice
addition. For most people, the cost alone would be good reason
not to, because I think if you're a flatlander you may not get
much use out of them.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Lenny Iszak wrote:
<lenard@rapiddecision.com>
>
> I've thought about installing speed brakes, however I never flown with
them. While I understand the benefits of having them, I'm not sure if
they would be necessary on the 10.
> Could anyone with more experience share their thoughts?
>
> Regards,
> Lenny
> #40803
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 0091#200091
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Speedbrake installation kit for RV-10 |
Here's my dos centavos.
Speedbrakes were designed primarily around high speed high, altitude jets that
have very little drag increase when the power is brought back.
At my day job there are instances where they are necessary, but mostly get used
when either the pilot or ATC screws up. There is a reason why they are often
referred to as "bozo boards".
Bringing a propeller driven aircraft back to idle with the prop in flat pitch makes
for a terrific speed brake. Likewise, a quick 360 is a lot easier in an
RV than a Boeing.
RV's are all about efficiency. You burned money (fuel) to get that altitude and
speed which is energy in the bank that you paid for. Speed brakes dump that
energy overboard.
I have nothing against those who want them and am all for cool new things, but
for me personally, I would rather put the weight and expense into something else
and manage my energy as efficiently as possible without dumping it overboard.
--------
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Emp completed, legacy build fuse in progress
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 0131#200131
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Speed brake installation kit for RV-10 |
Great perspective, but again one of the most valuable scenarios is a
rapid descent through weather in the vicinity of imposing terrain. Some
believe that "Bozo Boards" allow the avoidance of shock cooling the
front two cylinders that get the brunt of the moisture laden air. When
a leisure descent with proper planning is executed, they would never be
needed. Doing a long series of 360s from 13,500 down to Tower control
would have been far less fun and possibly contribute to a problem. Time
of loiter in the soup tends to increase the tension and abuse on both
the airframe and pilot. The Pacific NW is where the ole Boeing SST and
French Concorde came to get first hand icing experience for production
certification. It grows out here naturally.
The RV-10 should never be considered a primary platform for hard IFR
with the chance of condensing nuclei on the leading edges.
Consideration of Precise Flight Speed Brakes(tm) have a measureable
value to a percentage of the fleet. The percentage that fly in such
conditions who have adequate and frequent training and prudently use the
tool.
Energy Efficiency is even more apparent with sailplanes ... so I guess I
am lost why some use "Bozo Boards".
At my day job we have lots of turbo-props and yes they can create a lot
of drag in moving towards "disc" but the spoiler/slats seem to work a
lot like speed brakes when applied.
John Cox
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of woxofswa
Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2008 12:58 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Speedbrake installation kit for RV-10
Here's my dos centavos.
Speedbrakes were designed primarily around high speed high, altitude
jets that have very little drag increase when the power is brought back.
At my day job there are instances where they are necessary, but mostly
get used when either the pilot or ATC screws up. There is a reason why
they are often referred to as "bozo boards".
Bringing a propeller driven aircraft back to idle with the prop in flat
pitch makes for a terrific speed brake. Likewise, a quick 360 is a lot
easier in an RV than a Boeing.
RV's are all about efficiency. You burned money (fuel) to get that
altitude and speed which is energy in the bank that you paid for. Speed
brakes dump that energy overboard.
I have nothing against those who want them and am all for cool new
things, but for me personally, I would rather put the weight and expense
into something else and manage my energy as efficiently as possible
without dumping it overboard.
--------
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Emp completed, legacy build fuse in progress
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 0131#200131
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Speed brake installation kit for RV-10 |
Re sailplanes - most do have spoilers but they are used primarily for
landing approach control instead of or in conjunction with flaps. In an
aircraft with abundant lift and no engine, spoilers are a superior means
of approach path control. They can even be retracted without concern.
Flaps-only gliders exist but they are a bit more challenging to fly.
I've never heard them called 'bozo boards' in glider circles (ouch) but
it may seem appropriate when they are used to avoid being sucked into a
cumulus and PCA over the Sierras.
Bill "a glider guider before a Maule driver" Watson
John Cox wrote:
> Energy Efficiency is even more apparent with sailplanes ... so I guess I
> am lost why some use "Bozo Boards".
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Tail light/strobe (A500) offer if needed |
My wife bought me a LED nav position/strobe light set and that leaves me
with a new, never used/still in box A500 I wont need. Before I offer it
up on the Vansairforce list wanted to see if anyone needs one.
Van's sells it for $140, if interested contact me off list
pascal@rv10builder.net with best offer.
Thanks!
Pascal
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Tail light/strobe (A500) offer if needed |
Pascal, where did she get the LED nav position/strobe light set?
Dick
**************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel
deal here.
(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Speed brake installation kit for RV-10 |
Myron,
When the message was first posted, being the "devil's advocate" of the list, I
composed a response that pretty much echos your sentiments about speed brakes
on prop planes-then I deleted it. You version was much more delicate however:-)
The need for speed brakes on a piston prop plane is the result of poor planning
and/or piloting and an wasteful use of potential energy. I've seen sailplanes
with spoilers, but I've never seen one with speed brakes-but then maybe I need
to get out more. Spoiler are a different animal from speed brakes. Killing
the lift on a wing is a little different than inducing a massive amount of drag
while maintaining power. Oh, Boeing never got beyond the design stage for
their SST and the two prototypes were never completed so I'm not sure how their
SST was doing "real" icing certification testing.
William
http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/
-------- Original Message --------
>
> Great perspective, but again one of the most valuable scenarios is a
> rapid descent through weather in the vicinity of imposing terrain. Some
> believe that "Bozo Boards" allow the avoidance of shock cooling the
> front two cylinders that get the brunt of the moisture laden air. When
> a leisure descent with proper planning is executed, they would never be
> needed. Doing a long series of 360s from 13,500 down to Tower control
> would have been far less fun and possibly contribute to a problem. Time
> of loiter in the soup tends to increase the tension and abuse on both
> the airframe and pilot. The Pacific NW is where the ole Boeing SST and
> French Concorde came to get first hand icing experience for production
> certification. It grows out here naturally.
>
> The RV-10 should never be considered a primary platform for hard IFR
> with the chance of condensing nuclei on the leading edges.
> Consideration of Precise Flight Speed Brakes(tm) have a measureable
> value to a percentage of the fleet. The percentage that fly in such
> conditions who have adequate and frequent training and prudently use the
> tool.
>
> Energy Efficiency is even more apparent with sailplanes ... so I guess I
> am lost why some use "Bozo Boards".
>
> At my day job we have lots of turbo-props and yes they can create a lot
> of drag in moving towards "disc" but the spoiler/slats seem to work a
> lot like speed brakes when applied.
>
> John Cox
> Do Not Archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of woxofswa
> Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2008 12:58 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: Speedbrake installation kit for RV-10
>
>
> Here's my dos centavos.
>
> Speedbrakes were designed primarily around high speed high, altitude
> jets that have very little drag increase when the power is brought back.
>
>
> At my day job there are instances where they are necessary, but mostly
> get used when either the pilot or ATC screws up. There is a reason why
> they are often referred to as "bozo boards".
>
> Bringing a propeller driven aircraft back to idle with the prop in flat
> pitch makes for a terrific speed brake. Likewise, a quick 360 is a lot
> easier in an RV than a Boeing.
>
> RV's are all about efficiency. You burned money (fuel) to get that
> altitude and speed which is energy in the bank that you paid for. Speed
> brakes dump that energy overboard.
>
> I have nothing against those who want them and am all for cool new
> things, but for me personally, I would rather put the weight and expense
> into something else and manage my energy as efficiently as possible
> without dumping it overboard.
>
> --------
> Myron Nelson
> Mesa, AZ
> Emp completed, legacy build fuse in progress
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 0131#200131
Message 17
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| Subject: | Chelton limits file |
I was having difficulty setting the parameters in the Trutrak DF II and the
Cheltons for the VNAV functions. Some of the limits file labels are not self
explanatory and documentation is limited. I called Chelton Flight Systems
and got the new numbers in Texas at S-TEC. No initial help there but I
called Greg Schmidt, the western regional sales manager while waiting a call
back from our normal contact. He happened to be in Phoenix and at Falcon
field in Mesa. He came by the hangar and we modified the limits file to
allow proper communication between the Chelton PFD and the DF II. The VNAV
function seemed to be working well now; the only change I still need to test
is a lowering of the Vproc speed to a value low enough allow the aircraft
to land after the approach. If anyone wants a copy of my limits file as a
starter file for their system, just advise direct to my email and I will
attach the limits by return email.
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Speed brake installation kit for RV-10 |
William,
I really missed meeting you at OSH, and contrary to you self given title of devils
advocate I find your post thought provking from angels I, along with other
unadmitting members of this list may have not thought of. I would like to take
the time to point out that for the first time, you and John Cox are in agreement!!!!
And your answer was easily understood!!! But alas you reverted to a dig
in your closing comments, regaining your devils advocate title...which had
me cracking up...This is the stuff that makes this list not only informative and
educational but down right entertaining. Bravo!
FWIW, I miss the uneducational and misinformation but none the less entertaining
posts of our long lost member James McClow.
Rick Sked
40185
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "William Curtis" <wcurtis@nerv10.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2008 3:42:47 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Speed brake installation kit for RV-10
Myron,
When the message was first posted, being the "devil's advocate" of the list, I
composed a response that pretty much echos your sentiments about speed brakes
on prop planes-then I deleted it. You version was much more delicate however:-)
The need for speed brakes on a piston prop plane is the result of poor planning
and/or piloting and an wasteful use of potential energy. I've seen sailplanes
with spoilers, but I've never seen one with speed brakes-but then maybe I need
to get out more. Spoiler are a different animal from speed brakes. Killing
the lift on a wing is a little different than inducing a massive amount of drag
while maintaining power. Oh, Boeing never got beyond the design stage for
their SST and the two prototypes were never completed so I'm not sure how their
SST was doing "real" icing certification testing.
William
http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/
-------- Original Message --------
>
> Great perspective, but again one of the most valuable scenarios is a
> rapid descent through weather in the vicinity of imposing terrain. Some
> believe that "Bozo Boards" allow the avoidance of shock cooling the
> front two cylinders that get the brunt of the moisture laden air. When
> a leisure descent with proper planning is executed, they would never be
> needed. Doing a long series of 360s from 13,500 down to Tower control
> would have been far less fun and possibly contribute to a problem. Time
> of loiter in the soup tends to increase the tension and abuse on both
> the airframe and pilot. The Pacific NW is where the ole Boeing SST and
> French Concorde came to get first hand icing experience for production
> certification. It grows out here naturally.
>
> The RV-10 should never be considered a primary platform for hard IFR
> with the chance of condensing nuclei on the leading edges.
> Consideration of Precise Flight Speed Brakes(tm) have a measureable
> value to a percentage of the fleet. The percentage that fly in such
> conditions who have adequate and frequent training and prudently use the
> tool.
>
> Energy Efficiency is even more apparent with sailplanes ... so I guess I
> am lost why some use "Bozo Boards".
>
> At my day job we have lots of turbo-props and yes they can create a lot
> of drag in moving towards "disc" but the spoiler/slats seem to work a
> lot like speed brakes when applied.
>
> John Cox
> Do Not Archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of woxofswa
> Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2008 12:58 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: Speedbrake installation kit for RV-10
>
>
> Here's my dos centavos.
>
> Speedbrakes were designed primarily around high speed high, altitude
> jets that have very little drag increase when the power is brought back.
>
>
> At my day job there are instances where they are necessary, but mostly
> get used when either the pilot or ATC screws up. There is a reason why
> they are often referred to as "bozo boards".
>
> Bringing a propeller driven aircraft back to idle with the prop in flat
> pitch makes for a terrific speed brake. Likewise, a quick 360 is a lot
> easier in an RV than a Boeing.
>
> RV's are all about efficiency. You burned money (fuel) to get that
> altitude and speed which is energy in the bank that you paid for. Speed
> brakes dump that energy overboard.
>
> I have nothing against those who want them and am all for cool new
> things, but for me personally, I would rather put the weight and expense
> into something else and manage my energy as efficiently as possible
> without dumping it overboard.
>
> --------
> Myron Nelson
> Mesa, AZ
> Emp completed, legacy build fuse in progress
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 0131#200131
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Speed brake installation kit for RV-10 |
"devils advocate "
Actually, I did not give myself that title. It was bestowed on me a while back
by none other than John C.. So now I like to remind him at each turn:-)
William
http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/
-------- Original Message --------
>
> William,
>
> I really missed meeting you at OSH, and contrary to you self given title of devils
advocate I find your post thought provking from angels I, along with other
unadmitting members of this list may have not thought of. I would like to take
the time to point out that for the first time, you and John Cox are in agreement!!!!
And your answer was easily understood!!! But alas you reverted to a
dig in your closing comments, regaining your devils advocate title...which had
me cracking up...This is the stuff that makes this list not only informative
and educational but down right entertaining. Bravo!
>
> FWIW, I miss the uneducational and misinformation but none the less entertaining
posts of our long lost member James McClow.
>
> Rick Sked
> 40185
>
> do not archive
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "William Curtis" <wcurtis@nerv10.com>
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2008 3:42:47 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Speed brake installation kit for RV-10
>
>
> Myron,
>
> When the message was first posted, being the "devil's advocate" of the list,
I composed a response that pretty much echos your sentiments about speed brakes
on prop planes-then I deleted it. You version was much more delicate however:-)
>
> The need for speed brakes on a piston prop plane is the result of poor planning
and/or piloting and an wasteful use of potential energy. I've seen sailplanes
with spoilers, but I've never seen one with speed brakes-but then maybe I
need to get out more. Spoiler are a different animal from speed brakes. Killing
the lift on a wing is a little different than inducing a massive amount of
drag while maintaining power. Oh, Boeing never got beyond the design stage for
their SST and the two prototypes were never completed so I'm not sure how their
SST was doing "real" icing certification testing.
>
>
> William
> http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/
>
> -------- Original Message --------
>
> >
> > Great perspective, but again one of the most valuable scenarios is a
> > rapid descent through weather in the vicinity of imposing terrain. Some
> > believe that "Bozo Boards" allow the avoidance of shock cooling the
> > front two cylinders that get the brunt of the moisture laden air. When
> > a leisure descent with proper planning is executed, they would never be
> > needed. Doing a long series of 360s from 13,500 down to Tower control
> > would have been far less fun and possibly contribute to a problem. Time
> > of loiter in the soup tends to increase the tension and abuse on both
> > the airframe and pilot. The Pacific NW is where the ole Boeing SST and
> > French Concorde came to get first hand icing experience for production
> > certification. It grows out here naturally.
> >
> > The RV-10 should never be considered a primary platform for hard IFR
> > with the chance of condensing nuclei on the leading edges.
> > Consideration of Precise Flight Speed Brakes(tm) have a measureable
> > value to a percentage of the fleet. The percentage that fly in such
> > conditions who have adequate and frequent training and prudently use the
> > tool.
> >
> > Energy Efficiency is even more apparent with sailplanes ... so I guess I
> > am lost why some use "Bozo Boards".
> >
> > At my day job we have lots of turbo-props and yes they can create a lot
> > of drag in moving towards "disc" but the spoiler/slats seem to work a
> > lot like speed brakes when applied.
> >
> > John Cox
> > Do Not Archive
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of woxofswa
> > Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2008 12:58 PM
> > To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: RV10-List: Re: Speedbrake installation kit for RV-10
> >
> >
> > Here's my dos centavos.
> >
> > Speedbrakes were designed primarily around high speed high, altitude
> > jets that have very little drag increase when the power is brought back.
> >
> >
> > At my day job there are instances where they are necessary, but mostly
> > get used when either the pilot or ATC screws up. There is a reason why
> > they are often referred to as "bozo boards".
> >
> > Bringing a propeller driven aircraft back to idle with the prop in flat
> > pitch makes for a terrific speed brake. Likewise, a quick 360 is a lot
> > easier in an RV than a Boeing.
> >
> > RV's are all about efficiency. You burned money (fuel) to get that
> > altitude and speed which is energy in the bank that you paid for. Speed
> > brakes dump that energy overboard.
> >
> > I have nothing against those who want them and am all for cool new
> > things, but for me personally, I would rather put the weight and expense
> > into something else and manage my energy as efficiently as possible
> > without dumping it overboard.
> >
> > --------
> > Myron Nelson
> > Mesa, AZ
> > Emp completed, legacy build fuse in progress
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 0131#200131
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Speed brake installation kit for RV-10 |
Keep in mind that it is an absolute NO NO to use speed brakes in
potential icing conditions. Very likely they either won't retract when
desired, or will retract asymetrically. So forget about them for
getting down through icing layer. You might use them to slow to
desired approach speed, before commencing descent, but then you would
have to rely on prop drag will penetrating the icing layer.
On Sat, Aug 23, 2008 at 4:28 PM, William Curtis <wcurtis@nerv10.com> wrote:
>
> "devils advocate "
>
> Actually, I did not give myself that title. It was bestowed on me a while back
by none other than John C.. So now I like to remind him at each turn:-)
>
> William
> http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/
>
> -------- Original Message --------
>
>>
>> William,
>>
>> I really missed meeting you at OSH, and contrary to you self given title of
devils advocate I find your post thought provking from angels I, along with other
unadmitting members of this list may have not thought of. I would like to
take the time to point out that for the first time, you and John Cox are in agreement!!!!
And your answer was easily understood!!! But alas you reverted to
a dig in your closing comments, regaining your devils advocate title...which had
me cracking up...This is the stuff that makes this list not only informative
and educational but down right entertaining. Bravo!
>>
>> FWIW, I miss the uneducational and misinformation but none the less entertaining
posts of our long lost member James McClow.
>>
>> Rick Sked
>> 40185
>>
>> do not archive
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "William Curtis" <wcurtis@nerv10.com>
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2008 3:42:47 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
>> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Speed brake installation kit for RV-10
>>
>>
>> Myron,
>>
>> When the message was first posted, being the "devil's advocate" of the list,
I composed a response that pretty much echos your sentiments about speed brakes
on prop planes-then I deleted it. You version was much more delicate however:-)
>>
>> The need for speed brakes on a piston prop plane is the result of poor planning
and/or piloting and an wasteful use of potential energy. I've seen sailplanes
with spoilers, but I've never seen one with speed brakes-but then maybe I
need to get out more. Spoiler are a different animal from speed brakes. Killing
the lift on a wing is a little different than inducing a massive amount of
drag while maintaining power. Oh, Boeing never got beyond the design stage
for their SST and the two prototypes were never completed so I'm not sure how
their SST was doing "real" icing certification testing.
>>
>>
>> William
>> http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/
>>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>>
>> >
>> > Great perspective, but again one of the most valuable scenarios is a
>> > rapid descent through weather in the vicinity of imposing terrain. Some
>> > believe that "Bozo Boards" allow the avoidance of shock cooling the
>> > front two cylinders that get the brunt of the moisture laden air. When
>> > a leisure descent with proper planning is executed, they would never be
>> > needed. Doing a long series of 360s from 13,500 down to Tower control
>> > would have been far less fun and possibly contribute to a problem. Time
>> > of loiter in the soup tends to increase the tension and abuse on both
>> > the airframe and pilot. The Pacific NW is where the ole Boeing SST and
>> > French Concorde came to get first hand icing experience for production
>> > certification. It grows out here naturally.
>> >
>> > The RV-10 should never be considered a primary platform for hard IFR
>> > with the chance of condensing nuclei on the leading edges.
>> > Consideration of Precise Flight Speed Brakes(tm) have a measureable
>> > value to a percentage of the fleet. The percentage that fly in such
>> > conditions who have adequate and frequent training and prudently use the
>> > tool.
>> >
>> > Energy Efficiency is even more apparent with sailplanes ... so I guess I
>> > am lost why some use "Bozo Boards".
>> >
>> > At my day job we have lots of turbo-props and yes they can create a lot
>> > of drag in moving towards "disc" but the spoiler/slats seem to work a
>> > lot like speed brakes when applied.
>> >
>> > John Cox
>> > Do Not Archive
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of woxofswa
>> > Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2008 12:58 PM
>> > To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> > Subject: RV10-List: Re: Speedbrake installation kit for RV-10
>> >
>> >
>> > Here's my dos centavos.
>> >
>> > Speedbrakes were designed primarily around high speed high, altitude
>> > jets that have very little drag increase when the power is brought back.
>> >
>> >
>> > At my day job there are instances where they are necessary, but mostly
>> > get used when either the pilot or ATC screws up. There is a reason why
>> > they are often referred to as "bozo boards".
>> >
>> > Bringing a propeller driven aircraft back to idle with the prop in flat
>> > pitch makes for a terrific speed brake. Likewise, a quick 360 is a lot
>> > easier in an RV than a Boeing.
>> >
>> > RV's are all about efficiency. You burned money (fuel) to get that
>> > altitude and speed which is energy in the bank that you paid for. Speed
>> > brakes dump that energy overboard.
>> >
>> > I have nothing against those who want them and am all for cool new
>> > things, but for me personally, I would rather put the weight and expense
>> > into something else and manage my energy as efficiently as possible
>> > without dumping it overboard.
>> >
>> > --------
>> > Myron Nelson
>> > Mesa, AZ
>> > Emp completed, legacy build fuse in progress
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Read this topic online here:
>> >
>> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 0131#200131
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Speedbrake installation kit for RV-10 |
That efficiency issue was one of my big points of why I personally
wouldn't want them too....after climbing all the way up to 10-15K',
I want to do an efficient descent to use my fuel wisely, so I like
a longer more planned descent. I do think, however, that there
are particular people who are based at particular fields or who
do certain types of flying where they may actually have some
benefit. I really see it as something that only a very small
number of people would want, however...because not only is it
the efficiency of making the most of your descent, but the efficiency
of NOT spending tons of cash on something you won't use often.
You're right that pushing the prop forward does do a good job
of slowing you down and bringing you down quick, but depending
on the environment, you may not want that much shock cooling.
One thing I really like on the Cheltons is it's climb and
descent prediction...a curved green line showing up on your
track that lets you know at what point you'll reach your
new target altitude. I often can adjust my descent speed
by a couple hundred fpm so that I arrive at pattern altitude
maybe 5 miles out. Very handy little tool.
So yeah, I do agree for the most part. For most people it's
a waste, but for a very few they might be a nice addition. I've
had a specific few flights where I thought they would have been
handy. Considering the price though, I don't miss having them
at all. May as well not beat the horse too hard, because it's
surely an item that will only attract a handful anyway.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
woxofswa wrote:
>
> Here's my dos centavos.
>
> Speedbrakes were designed primarily around high speed high, altitude
> jets that have very little drag increase when the power is brought
> back.
>
> At my day job there are instances where they are necessary, but
> mostly get used when either the pilot or ATC screws up. There is a
> reason why they are often referred to as "bozo boards".
>
> Bringing a propeller driven aircraft back to idle with the prop in
> flat pitch makes for a terrific speed brake. Likewise, a quick 360
> is a lot easier in an RV than a Boeing.
>
> RV's are all about efficiency. You burned money (fuel) to get that
> altitude and speed which is energy in the bank that you paid for.
> Speed brakes dump that energy overboard.
>
> I have nothing against those who want them and am all for cool new
> things, but for me personally, I would rather put the weight and
> expense into something else and manage my energy as efficiently as
> possible without dumping it overboard.
>
> -------- Myron Nelson Mesa, AZ Emp completed, legacy build fuse in
> progress
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 0131#200131
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Elevator Skin Trailing Edge Bowing... |
Dear Listers,
Backing into the garage today I noticed the elevator skin bowing at
the trailing edge in the review mirror because of the way the light
was hitting it. Basically what the deal is I think is that I bent
the trailing edge of the elevators more than necessary. So, when I
pulled the leading edge apart to fit it over the spar, I now have a
concave bowing effect between some of the bays. Van's goes to great
lengths in the manual to make sure that bend the elevator trailing
edges *enough*, but doesn't make mention of what is "too much". The
radius of the trailing edge is still within spec and there is no
cracking or stress marks. Its just bent too much and looks like of
stupid. Somehow, I did the rudder perfectly, but both elevators
suffer from the effect. I've included some pictures below.
What the common thought on this issue? Are the safety/flutter issues
with over-bending as I have done? What to do...?
Thanks!
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880
RV-8 Fuse/Wing QB Kit Delivery Next Week! (Ordered May 20 2008)
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Speedbrake installation kit for RV-10 |
Most GPS units also have a Vertical Navigation calculator to assist in y
our descent. With the Avmap you just choose your glideslope and it wil
l continuously figure when to descend and at what FT/Min. You can also
set a point X number of miles out from endponit to get down to PA. Of
course using ones gray matter is another usesful way to calculate descen
t rate..........mmmmmmmm.......3 miles/min. and need to decend 9000 ft.
and I am 33 miles out.........nah..........use the GPS and EFIS.
Dean
805HL (To Northern MN over Labor Day)
____________________________________________________________
Stop foreclosure. Click here to stay in your home and rebuild credit.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/Ioyw6iie35sUW5BnQ2VaNiDMjyvo
u65vHFnZ6t94pK1L019maXdGDy/
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Tail light/strobe (A500) offer if needed |
creativair
From: Dickk9@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2008 3:08 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Tail light/strobe (A500) offer if needed
Pascal, where did she get the LED nav position/strobe light set?
Dick
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal
here.
Message 25
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| Subject: | eBay listings for mag, gears and starter |
A few engine accessories that I have left over have been listed for sale on eBay.
Slick Impulse Magneto 6350 LYCOMING (150286842891)
>> Not subject to SB584
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 0194#200194
Message 26
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| Subject: | RV10 Upholstery Shop |
While at Oshkosh, many folks asked who did my interior, and I didn't have
any of Frank's business cards.
Frank Collins Upholstery is located at Propwash Airport in Justin, TX. Frank
does a really good job and his web site is here:
www.frank-collins-upholstery.com
I can send you a picture if you contact me offline.
Ron Grover
40063
N324RG
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Local crash and my media interview |
Rick-
Sometimes a person is quietly going about his business and suddenly thrust
into a media situation. I have been there a couple of times. Looking back,
the best approach has been to go for it balls out.
=C2-
We are much better off with the media twisting expert commentary than letti
ng them creat a public interest story out of their fears and imagination. A
t least it bounds them somewhat.
=C2-
So ... don't think about what you might have said differently or concern yo
urself=C2-with any aspect of the interview. Thanks for being there.
=C2-
Bill DeRouchey
N939SB, flying
--- On Sat, 8/23/08, Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com> wrote:
From: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Local crash and my media interview
Almost *thankfully* the idiot wants to ban flight training and
solo flights and things like that too. That will mean that
the various organizations may be more willing to jump in to fight
it off. If it were "just" experimentals it may not get as
firmly quenched.
It does show how damaging one single incident can be for us all,
and gives even larger reason to make sure we all fly and build
safe. And, if you have to put it down somewhere, try to aim
for a spot where you're not likely to take anyone with you.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:
> I love the way they said that no one from the local EAA chapter would
> talk to them. Guess you lost so much weight Rick that you were
> invisible on camera! You must have done your job well because they
> apparently couldn=99t put any negative spin on anything you said.
It=99s
> Vegas and everything is showmanship.
>
>
>
> News isn=99t unbiased news reporting anymore, it=99s all ab
out the shock
> and aw value and ratings that it brings. That jackass needs to remember
> who he works for and who is paying for his airports. Fox News had a
> real quick blurb on it that was agreeing with that tool but that was
> it. Nothing again the rest of the afternoon after that 30 second spot
> thankfully. I=99m guessing that AOPA and their own staff pilots go
t to
> them real fast. What a d-bag.
>
>
>
> Sorry don=99t normally get this worked up but this guy is almost
as bad
> as Mayor Daley who is the king of tools and the epitome of Chicago
politics.
>
>
>
> Do not archive
>
>
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Rick Sked
> *Sent:* Saturday, August 23, 2008 1:51 AM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: Local crash and my media interview
>
>
>
> I think I did Ok...I had my cabin off during the initial interview, I
> put it on for the wrap up..it's ready so why not. Heres the link, my
> part isn't there yet but maybe in the morning they will post it.
>
> Thanks for the responses!!
>
> http://www.lasvegasnow.com/global/story.asp?s=8883721
>
> Rick Sked
>
> Starting new diet again tomorrow!!! :)
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rick Sked" <ricksked@embarqmail.com>
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 8:11:55 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
> Subject: RV10-List: Local crash and my media interview
>
> After a Velocity 173 RG went down today into a house at VGT, the
> airport manager for Clark County is calling for a ban of all
> experimental aircraft at HND, VGT, LAS. I was contacted by the media
> today to comment on behalf of experimental and home built aircraft,
I'm
> friends with the CBS affiliate news director and he knows about my
> project. The news crew spent over an hour looking and filming all the
> time interviewing me. at my RV-10, and asking a bunch of
> questions...since I have a background in litigation's and depositions
> the cub reporter didn't get a leg up on me when trying to get me to
> agree or disagree with the comments of the Airport Manager. But there is
> always the edit thing to consider and out of context stuff I'm sure I
> may have to defend. Bottom line, a Velocity lost power on take off and
> went right into a residential home 1 mile south of the runway..killing
> the 2 homeowners and the pilot. The news managed to get a copy of the
> local EAA chapter news letter that said...August- Too hot to fly!!! This
> was in regards to other months where fly outs were planned. So they
> assumed it's too hot to fly!!! I explained density altitude to the
deer
> in the headlight reporter. The velocity departed at 0630 local...temp
> was about 85 max...no factor for a good running Velocity. I did my best
> to defend our hobby and passion. Explain the 51 percent rule, challenged
> any one to examine my aircraft, even encouraged it. I must have said
> choices and risk management 20 times. Talked about weather and knowing
> the limitations of yourself and your rating, how important fuel
> management was. Didn't speculate on the crash today except that it was
> tragic and y thoughts and prayers went out to all who experienced a
> loss. Showed them the RV-10 plans, showed them the FAA circular 43.13
> and how we complied with these best practices, showed them my panel all
> fired up, told them our creed in the EAA was education and recreation. I
> really went to bat for how we do things better becasue they are our
> airplanes and our families. They want to come back at 11 PM.... UGH and
> go live with me...I have an hour to respond...what do you guys think???
> I know it's late...should I put myself out there again, live on TV??
> Those watching let me know your thoughts..we have about an hour before I
> need to call and say yes or no....I really hope I did us proud, the EAA
> and all of the members proud and everyone of us who enjoy this freedom.
> Comment fast please if your there.
>
> Rick Sked
>
> 40185
>
> 15 minutes of fame
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007@cox.net>
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 7:32:11 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: LAS visit
>
> LAS was never a consideration; I was there a couple of times a few years
> ago and noticed the dramatically rising fees to keep GA out.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Robin Marks
> *Sent:* Friday, August 22, 2008 7:21 PM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: LAS visit
>
> I second Rene=99s suggestion. I fly into Vegas a lot and prefer HND
. It
> has recently been remodeled and upgraded. You will be on the strip as
> fast or faster going to HND then LAS. If you reserve a rent-a-car ahead
> it is in and out. They have a courtesy van to transport you, PAX and
> luggage to the terminal. I think it=99s $5 or $10 max / overnight.
I have
> paid a $50.00 landing fee at LAS.
>
> Robin
>
>
> Do Not Archive
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Rene
> *Sent:* Friday, August 22, 2008 5:48 AM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: LAS visit
>
>
>
> I have flown into Vegas at least a half of dozen times and have found
> HND (Henderson) to be my favorite. LAS is not bad if you can find a
> parking spot, but that is hard to do. On an Angel Flight mission, I
> flew into LAS arriving about 30 minutes after sun up and it was
> beautiful, the controller had me fly toward the Stratosphere, then hang
> a left basically flying parallel to the strip, wish I would have had a
> video camera.
>
>
>
> HND is about 10 miles to the south, plenty of ramp space, very nice FBO
> (run by the city I think), and a shuttle to take you to the Strip. Fuel
> was $5.40 when I was there on the 4^th of July.
>
>
>
> Rene'
>
> 801-721-6080
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *David McNeil
l
> *Sent:* Friday, August 22, 2008 5:43 AM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RV10-List: LAS visit
>
>
>
> I will be in LAS for the dates Sept 29 ,30, Oct 1 for a company reunion;
> I will be staying on the strip. Any recommendations for airports,
> hangars, fuel etc. There should be enough time for a ride or two.
>
>
>
>
>
> N46007 flying
>
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