Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:47 AM - Magnetos/Electronic Ignitions (Rick Lark)
2. 06:33 AM - Re: To Magento - Or Not To Magento (Richard Martin)
3. 06:50 AM - Re: To Magento - Or Not To Magento (bcondrey)
4. 07:25 AM - Re: Magnetos/Electronic Ignitions (Kelly McMullen)
5. 07:46 AM - Re: To Magento - Or Not To Magento (Marcus Cooper)
6. 08:49 AM - Re: To Magento - Or Not To Magento (Bob and Karen Brown)
7. 09:23 AM - Re: Before mounting engine (jayb)
8. 11:41 AM - Re: To Magento - Or Not To Magento (Jim Combs)
9. 11:41 AM - FW: To Magento - Or Not To Magento (John Cumins)
10. 12:04 PM - Re: To Magento - Or Not To Magento (Bob and Karen Brown)
11. 12:37 PM - Re: To Magento - Or Not To Magento (John Cox)
12. 01:08 PM - Re: To Magento - Or Not To Magento (David Maib)
13. 01:38 PM - Re: To Magento - Or Not To Magento (Jae Chang)
14. 02:33 PM - Re: To Magento - Or Not To Magento (Bob and Karen Brown)
15. 02:36 PM - Re: To Magento - Or Not To Magento (n277dl)
16. 02:45 PM - Re: Re: To Magneto - Or Not To Magneto (Robin Marks)
17. 02:53 PM - Re: windshield brace wiring (Bob Turner)
18. 03:51 PM - Re: To Magento - Or Not To Magento (John Cumins)
19. 05:21 PM - Weight & Balance Spreadsheet (Matt Dralle)
20. 07:20 PM - Re: To Magento - Or Not To Magento (jchang10)
21. 07:29 PM - Re: Re: To Magento - Or Not To Magento (Kelly McMullen)
22. 09:19 PM - Re: Re: To Magento - Or Not To Magento (Bob and Karen Brown)
23. 11:13 PM - Re: Re: To Magento - Or Not To Magento (Scott Schmidt)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Magnetos/Electronic Ignitions |
Kelly McMullen said
>>My question is whether the benefits of a single Plasma III are worth
the cost and effort to have 2 different systems. Certainly there is
better cruise economy in theory, but no difference at full power. If
magneto equipped with Slick Start there should be no difference in
starting, so are the cruise benefits worth the trouble and cost?<<
Hey Kelly, while I'm just waiting for the wing kit to arrive, I've been
watching/reading about the electronic ignition issues etc. Can you
expand on the difference in costs and the effort required with regards
to the 2 separate systems?
To quote a fellow Canadian, "Inquiring minds need to know".
Thx.
Rick
#40956
Southampton, Ont.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: To Magento - Or Not To Magento |
I have 1950 hours on my RV8 in the 10 years of operation. The first 950
hours were with a IO360AlB6 Lycoming with 10to l pistons and dual electronic
lightspeed ignition. I WOULD NOT RECOMMEND THE USE OF 10-1 PISTONS. AFTER
951 hours of operation they almost killed me. I noticed with the last oil
change at that time there was a substantial (not a trace) of metal bearing
material in the oil filter. I was alarmed. I removed a cylinder and piston
and discovered that there was NO BEARINGS LEFT on the connecting rod to
crankshaft bearings. Needless to say, I was quite alarmed. I then removed
the other cylinders and saw that all 4 rod bearings were gone.The crankshaft
etc. were damaged beyond repair.After that scare, I decided that I would buy
a NEW engine. I always wondered why people would spend the money required
for a new engine rather than overhaul a second hand used engine. I had just
returned home in wisconsin after a 1200 mile flight from florida when this
all happened. Needless to say, I think that the BIG GUY UPSTAIRS was sitting
on my shoulder. At this time, Lycoming had just introduced their IO390A1B6
210 hp engine, so I spent my kids inheretance and bought a NEW engine from
Barrette Performance Aircraft engines in Tulsa. I am happy with this
engine. It has real power increase over the 10-1 360. I noticed a average
speed increase of approx 10 mmph and a climb increase of approx 500 plus
fpm. Average fuel consumption at 23/23 manifold press/rpm is 9 gallons per
hour.
If you wish to discuss this, please do not use internet,because I do not
have time for replies. You may call me @ 920 619 6968.
Dick Martin
RV8 N233M
the fast one
On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 7:32 PM, Patrick Pulis <rv10free2fly@yahoo.com.au>wrote:
> I would really appreciate your thoughts regarding the installation of a
> dual Plasma III ignition system with crankshaft sensor on the IO-540
> engine. Would this negate the need to install a magneto system?
>
> What is the reliability of electronic ignition systems when fitted to
> aircraft engines?
>
> Additionally what are the general thoughts regrading the use of 9:1 high
> compression pistons on IO-540 engines please?
>
> Your thoughts would be appreciated to enlighten the uninitiated.
>
> Many thanks in anticipation.
>
> Regards
>
> Patrick Pulis
> Adelaide, South Australia
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: To Magento - Or Not To Magento |
There are a few of us running dual LSE ignitions and very happy with the result.
As has been pointed out, there is huge benefit from the first electronic ignition,
very little with the second. If you do go with dual electronic ignitions
just recognize the dependence on electrons flowing. There are multiple ways
to mitigate this ranging from a simple, small second battery setup to the more
sophisticated AeroElectric Z-14 architecture. Once you've addressed that
the reliability is at least as high as magnetos. I for one am extremely happy
with my setup.
I'd also point out that it's likely that you'll have an all electric panel of some
sort and will want some sort of way to mitigate electrical failure anyway
so it's not much of a leap to include dual electronic ignitions into that equation.
If you get an engine already equipped with new mags, I'd be inclined to just replace
one with electronic and keep the new mag in place. When that hits OH time
just swap it out with the one that the electronic ignition replaced. When
you hit the 1000 hour mark and it's time for the second mag to need OH you'll
be in a much better position to evaluate from your own experience.
With regard to the pistons - given the current fuel situation I'd stick with 8.5:1.
If you go higher you'll be increasing the potential that a replacement fuel
won't have sufficient detonation margins. The gain from installing slightly
higher compression pistons is minimal however if there's an issue that requires
you to drop back down to 8.5:1 you'd have to pull all cylinders, replace
pistons & rings, rehone, reinstall cylinders and go through a break-in again.
Up to you to decide whether it's worth it.
Bob
N442PM
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=293629#293629
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| Subject: | Re: Magnetos/Electronic Ignitions |
~$1500 plus the additional wiring, your time, minus the value of the
removed mag. For the LS Plasma III. You could also look at the
G3 electronic modification to magnetos. www.g3ignition.com
Personally, I don't believe 95% of their claims as they seem to have
poor understanding of the flame propagation event.
I probably will go with either 2 Bendix S-1200s, or LS Plasma and an S-1200.
Both more expensive than Slicks, but Slicks don't have a great service
history on Lycoming IO-540s. They have better record on TCM engines for
some reason.
On 4/9/2010 8:46 AM, Rick Lark wrote:
> Kelly McMullen said
> >>My question is whether the benefits of a single Plasma III are worth
> the cost and effort to have 2 different systems. Certainly there is
> better cruise economy in theory, but no difference at full power. If
> magneto equipped with Slick Start there should be no difference in
> starting, so are the cruise benefits worth the trouble and cost?<<
> Hey Kelly, while I'm just waiting for the wing kit to arrive, I've been
> watching/reading about the electronic ignition issues etc. Can you
> expand on the difference in costs and the effort required with regards
> to the 2 separate systems?
> To quote a fellow Canadian, "Inquiring minds need to know".
> Thx.
> Rick
> #40956
> Southampton, Ont.
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 5
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| Subject: | To Magento - Or Not To Magento |
I went with one electronic ignition for the upper plugs and a mag for the
lower for both my RV-6 and RV-10 and it's worked great. Everything I had
read indicated 95% of the benefits were gained by the first electronic
ignition and I liked the simple reliability of the mag so it seems like a
good combination, it was also cheaper which is a plus. A lot of folks are
happy with the dual mag, just realize there is some extra complexity with
backup electrical systems and batteries that you need to consider.
Good luck,
Marcus
40286
Do not archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Pulis
Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 8:33 PM
Subject: RV10-List: To Magento - Or Not To Magento
I would really appreciate your thoughts regarding the installation of a dual
Plasma III ignition system with crankshaft sensor on the IO-540 engine.
Would this negate the need to install a magneto system?
What is the reliability of electronic ignition systems when fitted to
aircraft engines?
Additionally what are the general thoughts regrading the use of 9:1 high
compression pistons on IO-540 engines please?
Your thoughts would be appreciated to enlighten the uninitiated.
Many thanks in anticipation.
Regards
Patrick Pulis
Adelaide, South Australia
Message 6
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| Subject: | To Magento - Or Not To Magento |
Just wondering out loud here, if you were going to run one electronic
ignition and one magneto, why would you have the magneto firing the upper
plugs, when its generally the lower plugs that have fouling problems. In my
experience, electronic ignition keeps the plugs much cleaner and fires them
a little hotter.
Also, whether you believe the manufacturer's claims or not, I think we need
to look to the users of the G3 systems and get their takes on the benefits
and drawbacks of the system. You might call Larry Vetterman
(www.vettermanexhaust.com) and talk with him about his experiences running
the G3 in his RV. I know Larry, and know he's tried every electronic
ignition system out there. He has no financial interest in G3. When he
finds an ignition system he likes, and can document fuel flows, power
settings and general ease of use.I listen. He had previously installed,
tested, and subsequently removed dual Lightspeed ignitions.
Anyone who saw the demo in the G3 booth at Oshkosh last year would certainly
remember the difference in firing power between mags and the G3. That demo
and a visit with Larry Vetterman have sold me on taking a serious look at
the system, I already have Bendix magnetos on my Barrett engine, so I can
easily still bolt on the G3. Is anyone on this list running the G3?
Bob Brown
40871
Do not archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marcus Cooper
Sent: Friday, April 09, 2010 7:46 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: To Magento - Or Not To Magento
I went with one electronic ignition for the upper plugs and a mag for the
lower for both my RV-6 and RV-10 and it's worked great. Everything I had
read indicated 95% of the benefits were gained by the first electronic
ignition and I liked the simple reliability of the mag so it seems like a
good combination, it was also cheaper which is a plus. A lot of folks are
happy with the dual mag, just realize there is some extra complexity with
backup electrical systems and batteries that you need to consider.
Good luck,
Marcus
40286
Do not archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Pulis
Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 8:33 PM
Subject: RV10-List: To Magento - Or Not To Magento
I would really appreciate your thoughts regarding the installation of a dual
Plasma III ignition system with crankshaft sensor on the IO-540 engine.
Would this negate the need to install a magneto system?
What is the reliability of electronic ignition systems when fitted to
aircraft engines?
Additionally what are the general thoughts regrading the use of 9:1 high
compression pistons on IO-540 engines please?
Your thoughts would be appreciated to enlighten the uninitiated.
Many thanks in anticipation.
Regards
Patrick Pulis
Adelaide, South Australia
<pr - The RV10-List Email Forum utilities such as List Photoshare,
and much much --> http://www.matronic================
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List>
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS via <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List>
the Web --> http://forums.matronics.comstyle='mso-spacerun:yes'>
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generous style='mso-spacerun:yes'> -Matt
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Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Before mounting engine |
Riveting the cowl hinges before attaching the engine mount is a good idea as the
mount gets in the way of several hinge rivets. By the time I realized this,
the engine was already hung and it got interesting.
I pulled FW wires after the engine on without problem. One advantage of doing it
this way is that everything is known to be accessible after the fact.
Attached forest of ground tabs to FW before engine on.
Mounted LSE Electronic Ignition to aft side of FW before engine on.
Install of air vent control cables after engine on doesn't look like fun as there's
little clearance. I didn't have my cabin mounts done at the time, so I'll
be the poster child for doing it backwards.
Ran engine control cables after engine on without problem. Would have been easier
beforehand though.
Jay
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=293658#293658
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: To Magento - Or Not To Magento |
We have a Lightspeed on the top plugs with a magneto on the bottom plugs.
With a long taxi to the runway from the hanger, our procedure is to lean
aggressively after startup. In 150+ hours I have never had any issues with
plug fouling. To date, the Lightspeed has been excellent with no issues.
We start on the Lightspeed (Left).
Jim Combs
N312F
On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 11:48 AM, Bob and Karen Brown <bkbrown@minetfiber.co
m
> wrote:
> Just wondering out loud here, if you were going to run one electronic
> ignition and one magneto, why would you have the magneto firing the upper
> plugs, when its generally the lower plugs that have fouling problems. In
my
> experience, electronic ignition keeps the plugs much cleaner and fires th
em
> a little hotter.
>
>
> Also, whether you believe the manufacturer=92s claims or not, I think we
need
> to look to the users of the G3 systems and get their takes on the benefit
s
> and drawbacks of the system. You might call Larry Vetterman (
> www.vettermanexhaust.com) and talk with him about his experiences running
> the G3 in his RV. I know Larry, and know he=92s tried every electronic
> ignition system out there. He has no financial interest in G3. When he
> finds an ignition system he likes, and can document fuel flows, power
> settings and general ease of use=85I listen. He had previously installed
,
> tested, and subsequently removed dual Lightspeed ignitions.
>
>
> Anyone who saw the demo in the G3 booth at Oshkosh last year would
> certainly remember the difference in firing power between mags and the G3
.
> That demo and a visit with Larry Vetterman have sold me on taking a serio
us
> look at the system, I already have Bendix magnetos on my Barrett engine,
so
> I can easily still bolt on the G3. Is anyone on this list running the G3
?
>
>
> Bob Brown
>
> 40871
>
>
> Do not archive
>
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Marcus Cooper
> *Sent:* Friday, April 09, 2010 7:46 AM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: To Magento - Or Not To Magento
>
>
> I went with one electronic ignition for the upper plugs and a mag for th
e
> lower for both my RV-6 and RV-10 and it=92s worked great. Everything I h
ad
> read indicated 95% of the benefits were gained by the first electronic
> ignition and I liked the simple reliability of the mag so it seems like a
> good combination, it was also cheaper which is a plus. A lot of folks ar
e
> happy with the dual mag, just realize there is some extra complexity with
> backup electrical systems and batteries that you need to consider.
>
>
> Good luck,
>
> Marcus
>
> 40286
>
>
> Do not archive
>
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Patrick Pulis
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 08, 2010 8:33 PM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RV10-List: To Magento - Or Not To Magento
>
>
> I would really appreciate your thoughts regarding the installation of a
> dual Plasma III ignition system with crankshaft sensor on the IO-540
> engine. Would this negate the need to install a magneto system?
>
>
> What is the reliability of electronic ignition systems when fitted to
> aircraft engines?
>
>
> Additionally what are the general thoughts regrading the use of 9:1 high
> compression pistons on IO-540 engines please?
>
>
> Your thoughts would be appreciated to enlighten the uninitiated.
>
>
> Many thanks in anticipation.
>
>
> Regards
>
>
> Patrick Pulis
>
> Adelaide, South Australia
>
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> <pr - The RV10-List Email Forum utilities such as List Photoshar
e,
> and much much --> http://www.matronic===========
======<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List>
>
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS via the Web -->
> <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List>http://forums.matronics.com
style='mso-spacerun:yes'>
> - List Contribution Web Site style='mso-spacerun:yes'> Thank you for y
our
> generous style='mso-spacerun:yes'> -Matt
> style='mso-spacerun:yes'> --> http://www.matronics.com/c=<http://ww
w.matronics.com/contribution>
>
> * <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>*
>
> * <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>*
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> * <http://www.matronics.com/contribution> <http://www.matronics.com/contr
ibution>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
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> **
>
> **
>
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Message 9
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| Subject: | To Magento - Or Not To Magento |
Bob
Being a old A&P mechanic and have extensive experience with mag's and
electronic ignitions on a Smith mini plane we race at Reno every year. I am
going with the G3 system on my RV-10. We are running the 3rd generation of
E-Mags on the biplane we race and now they seem to be doing very well.
The first season with electronic ignitions were p-mags and we maydayed
every race. The engine broke the starter mount it shook so hard. We now
have dual e-mags and on version 3 and they run great so far with 2 full
seasons on them.
I have talked to the owner of G-3 and was very impressed and the design and
redundancy makes total since to me.
Just my 2 cents worth.
John G. Cumins
40864 emp 95% done wings kit on the shelf
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob and Karen
Brown
Sent: Friday, April 09, 2010 8:49 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: To Magento - Or Not To Magento
Just wondering out loud here, if you were going to run one electronic
ignition and one magneto, why would you have the magneto firing the upper
plugs, when its generally the lower plugs that have fouling problems. In my
experience, electronic ignition keeps the plugs much cleaner and fires them
a little hotter.
Also, whether you believe the manufacturer's claims or not, I think we need
to look to the users of the G3 systems and get their takes on the benefits
and drawbacks of the system. You might call Larry Vetterman
(www.vettermanexhaust.com) and talk with him about his experiences running
the G3 in his RV. I know Larry, and know he's tried every electronic
ignition system out there. He has no financial interest in G3. When he
finds an ignition system he likes, and can document fuel flows, power
settings and general ease of use.I listen. He had previously installed,
tested, and subsequently removed dual Lightspeed ignitions.
Anyone who saw the demo in the G3 booth at Oshkosh last year would certainly
remember the difference in firing power between mags and the G3. That demo
and a visit with Larry Vetterman have sold me on taking a serious look at
the system, I already have Bendix magnetos on my Barrett engine, so I can
easily still bolt on the G3. Is anyone on this list running the G3?
Bob Brown
40871
Do not archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marcus Cooper
Sent: Friday, April 09, 2010 7:46 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: To Magento - Or Not To Magento
I went with one electronic ignition for the upper plugs and a mag for the
lower for both my RV-6 and RV-10 and it's worked great. Everything I had
read indicated 95% of the benefits were gained by the first electronic
ignition and I liked the simple reliability of the mag so it seems like a
good combination, it was also cheaper which is a plus. A lot of folks are
happy with the dual mag, just realize there is some extra complexity with
backup electrical systems and batteries that you need to consider.
Good luck,
Marcus
40286
Do not archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Pulis
Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 8:33 PM
Subject: RV10-List: To Magento - Or Not To Magento
I would really appreciate your thoughts regarding the installation of a dual
Plasma III ignition system with crankshaft sensor on the IO-540 engine.
Would this negate the need to install a magneto system?
What is the reliability of electronic ignition systems when fitted to
aircraft engines?
Additionally what are the general thoughts regrading the use of 9:1 high
compression pistons on IO-540 engines please?
Your thoughts would be appreciated to enlighten the uninitiated.
Many thanks in anticipation.
Regards
Patrick Pulis
Adelaide, South Australia
<pr - The RV10-List Email Forum utilities such as List Photoshare,
and much much --> http://www.matronic================
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List>
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS via <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List>
the Web --> http://forums.matronics.comstyle='mso-spacerun:yes'>
- List Contribution Web Site style='mso-spacerun:yes'> Thank you for your
generous style='mso-spacerun:yes'> -Matt
style='mso-spacerun:yes'> --> http://www.matronics.com/c
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution> <=""
span="">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 10
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| Subject: | To Magento - Or Not To Magento |
That's good info, I was just wondering why one would run the E-ignition on
the top instead of the bottom. Is there an advantage in running it that way
or a reason not to run it the other way?
Bob Brown
40871
Do not archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Combs
Sent: Friday, April 09, 2010 11:38 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: To Magento - Or Not To Magento
We have a Lightspeed on the top plugs with a magneto on the bottom plugs.
With a long taxi to the runway from the hanger, our procedure is to lean
aggressively after startup. In 150+ hours I have never had any issues with
plug fouling. To date, the Lightspeed has been excellent with no issues.
We start on the Lightspeed (Left).
Jim Combs
N312F
On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 11:48 AM, Bob and Karen Brown
<bkbrown@minetfiber.com> wrote:
Just wondering out loud here, if you were going to run one electronic
ignition and one magneto, why would you have the magneto firing the upper
plugs, when its generally the lower plugs that have fouling problems. In my
experience, electronic ignition keeps the plugs much cleaner and fires them
a little hotter.
Also, whether you believe the manufacturer's claims or not, I think we need
to look to the users of the G3 systems and get their takes on the benefits
and drawbacks of the system. You might call Larry Vetterman
(www.vettermanexhaust.com) and talk with him about his experiences running
the G3 in his RV. I know Larry, and know he's tried every electronic
ignition system out there. He has no financial interest in G3. When he
finds an ignition system he likes, and can document fuel flows, power
settings and general ease of use.I listen. He had previously installed,
tested, and subsequently removed dual Lightspeed ignitions.
Anyone who saw the demo in the G3 booth at Oshkosh last year would certainly
remember the difference in firing power between mags and the G3. That demo
and a visit with Larry Vetterman have sold me on taking a serious look at
the system, I already have Bendix magnetos on my Barrett engine, so I can
easily still bolt on the G3. Is anyone on this list running the G3?
Bob Brown
40871
Do not archive
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| Subject: | To Magento - Or Not To Magento |
Coming out of hibernation on this one.
Whether the topic is "Safety of Glass Cockpit" or "To Magneto or Not To"
those of you choosing to deviate need to make a personal choice based on
your risk quotient. Too many builders go with the newest, sexiest or
golly forbid - the cheapest. In that journey to an all too quick of a
conclusion often reliability is downplayed. Most RV-10 pilots are not
ready for a catastrophic engine loss during flight, the flight of the
aircraft to a safe walk away landing or what the hell caused that,
question as your anatomy puckers?
If your knowledgeable, if its experimental and if you choose well, then
this topic is not a big deal. Slick Mags and their AD last year hit a
lot of owners by surprise. Many have waited for a six banger P Mag
option as long as Eggenfelner/GAMI/Epic/Eclipse and others come out with
new alternatives, others are disciples of electronic ignitions and
purport to drink the Kool-Aid of one or two at a time. They are all
within acceptable reliability range. I have yet to read the consequence
of a lightning strike on your choice. My first flight in April of 1973
was a direct hit on take-off as a Zero Time Student Pilot.
After 36 years (oops 37 got to make way for the kids out there), I find
myself dealing with Lightning Strikes on Part 121 Turbo-props many
nights while the RV-10 builder community sleeps. We almost have an
unlimited budget, whatever time it takes to remediate the damage "Safe
and Compliant" and a score of trained professionals who know what they
are doing (oh yeh, and we ALL hate repairing lightning strikes).
Whether it is spark ignition systems, composite charring, melted rivets,
zapped electronic EFIS or wiring systems I am waiting for someone to do
a T chart on the pluses + and minuses - of each. There have been a lot
of good and a few strong points made here. So far the noise of the crowd
is not real clear on the Risks... (Except Kelly and is 99.994%
calculation). At work, we deal with the 00.006% time that it all goes
to shit. May none of you ever have to.
Keep your skills sharp, fly often, land safe and question yourself often
John Cox
40600
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob and Karen
Brown
Sent: Friday, April 09, 2010 8:49 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: To Magento - Or Not To Magento
Just wondering out loud here, if you were going to run one electronic
ignition and one magneto, why would you have the magneto firing the
upper plugs, when its generally the lower plugs that have fouling
problems. In my experience, electronic ignition keeps the plugs much
cleaner and fires them a little hotter.
Also, whether you believe the manufacturer's claims or not, I think we
need to look to the users of the G3 systems and get their takes on the
benefits and drawbacks of the system. You might call Larry Vetterman
(www.vettermanexhaust.com) and talk with him about his experiences
running the G3 in his RV. I know Larry, and know he's tried every
electronic ignition system out there. He has no financial interest in
G3. When he finds an ignition system he likes, and can document fuel
flows, power settings and general ease of use...I listen. He had
previously installed, tested, and subsequently removed dual Lightspeed
ignitions.
Anyone who saw the demo in the G3 booth at Oshkosh last year would
certainly remember the difference in firing power between mags and the
G3. That demo and a visit with Larry Vetterman have sold me on taking a
serious look at the system, I already have Bendix magnetos on my Barrett
engine, so I can easily still bolt on the G3. Is anyone on this list
running the G3?
Bob Brown
40871
Do not archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marcus Cooper
Sent: Friday, April 09, 2010 7:46 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: To Magento - Or Not To Magento
I went with one electronic ignition for the upper plugs and a mag for
the lower for both my RV-6 and RV-10 and it's worked great. Everything
I had read indicated 95% of the benefits were gained by the first
electronic ignition and I liked the simple reliability of the mag so it
seems like a good combination, it was also cheaper which is a plus. A
lot of folks are happy with the dual mag, just realize there is some
extra complexity with backup electrical systems and batteries that you
need to consider.
Good luck,
Marcus
40286
Do not archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Pulis
Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 8:33 PM
Subject: RV10-List: To Magento - Or Not To Magento
I would really appreciate your thoughts regarding the installation of a
dual Plasma III ignition system with crankshaft sensor on the IO-540
engine. Would this negate the need to install a magneto system?
What is the reliability of electronic ignition systems when fitted to
aircraft engines?
Additionally what are the general thoughts regrading the use of 9:1 high
compression pistons on IO-540 engines please?
Your thoughts would be appreciated to enlighten the uninitiated.
Many thanks in anticipation.
Regards
Patrick Pulis
Adelaide, South Australia
<pr - The RV10-List Email Forum utilities such as List
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| Subject: | Re: To Magento - Or Not To Magento |
I think the reason many, if not most, of us put the Lightspeed on the
top is that it is considerably easier to run the wiring and mount the
hardware on top of the engine. 1 1/2 years and 220 hours with LS on
top and mag on bottom with no problems.
$.02 worth
David Maib
40559
flying
On Apr 9, 2010, at 3:03 PM, Bob and Karen Brown wrote:
That=92s good info, I was just wondering why one would run the E-
ignition on the top instead of the bottom. Is there an advantage in
running it that way or a reason not to run it the other way?
Bob Brown
40871
Do not archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-
server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Combs
Sent: Friday, April 09, 2010 11:38 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: To Magento - Or Not To Magento
We have a Lightspeed on the top plugs with a magneto on the bottom
plugs. With a long taxi to the runway from the hanger, our procedure
is to lean aggressively after startup. In 150+ hours I have never
had any issues with plug fouling. To date, the Lightspeed has been
excellent with no issues.
We start on the Lightspeed (Left).
Jim Combs
N312F
On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 11:48 AM, Bob and Karen Brown
<bkbrown@minetfiber.com> wrote:
Just wondering out loud here, if you were going to run one electronic
ignition and one magneto, why would you have the magneto firing the
upper plugs, when its generally the lower plugs that have fouling
problems. In my experience, electronic ignition keeps the plugs much
cleaner and fires them a little hotter.
Also, whether you believe the manufacturer=92s claims or not, I think
we need to look to the users of the G3 systems and get their takes on
the benefits and drawbacks of the system. You might call Larry
Vetterman (www.vettermanexhaust.com) and talk with him about his
experiences running the G3 in his RV. I know Larry, and know he=92s
tried every electronic ignition system out there. He has no
financial interest in G3. When he finds an ignition system he likes,
and can document fuel flows, power settings and general ease of use=85I
listen. He had previously installed, tested, and subsequently
removed dual Lightspeed ignitions.
Anyone who saw the demo in the G3 booth at Oshkosh last year would
certainly remember the difference in firing power between mags and
the G3. That demo and a visit with Larry Vetterman have sold me on
taking a serious look at the system, I already have Bendix magnetos
on my Barrett engine, so I can easily still bolt on the G3. Is
anyone on this list running the G3?
Bob Brown
40871
Do not archive
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| Subject: | Re: To Magento - Or Not To Magento |
A few months ago, I didn't think G3 supported 6 cylinders. Looking
again, i still don't see any support other than for 4 cylinders. Does
anyone know any different?
http://www.g3ignition.com/order.html
Jae
40533
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| Subject: | To Magento - Or Not To Magento |
FWIW, I just got off the phone with Thomas Shpakow, who owns G3. He said
his system doesn't care how many cylinders (4, 5, 6, 9, etc), since his
system runs on top of a magneto. It's not changing the timing, only
boosting the spark. He said he's sold 7 systems to RV-10 builders and has
been running a 6 cyl version on his plane since he came up with it two years
ago.
Bob Brown
40871
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jae Chang
Sent: Friday, April 09, 2010 1:37 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: To Magento - Or Not To Magento
A few months ago, I didn't think G3 supported 6 cylinders. Looking
again, i still don't see any support other than for 4 cylinders. Does
anyone know any different?
http://www.g3ignition.com/order.html
Jae
40533
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| Subject: | Re: To Magento - Or Not To Magento |
Yes, it'll support 6 cyl. Doesn't replace the mags. I've installed the G3 but not
started the engine yet.
Hopefully flying in the next couple months.....
Doug
RV7A flying 850hrs
RV10 Fuse painted and at the hangar, installing panel, trying to get wings painted....
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=293687#293687
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: To Magneto - Or Not To Magneto |
I thought Jessie was going to install a G3. Jessie????
Robin
Do Not Archive
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| Subject: | Re: windshield brace wiring |
Will you be running significant (> 1 amp) current in these wires? Will you hang
a compass on the center support post? If the answers are yes and yes, then you'll
want to run a ground return line, as close as possible to the other wires,
to minimize stray magnetic fields.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=293690#293690
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| Subject: | To Magento - Or Not To Magento |
According to the owner it does support 6 cyl
John G. Cumins
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jae Chang
Sent: Friday, April 09, 2010 1:37 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: To Magento - Or Not To Magento
A few months ago, I didn't think G3 supported 6 cylinders. Looking
again, i still don't see any support other than for 4 cylinders. Does
anyone know any different?
http://www.g3ignition.com/order.html
Jae
40533
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| Subject: | Weight & Balance Spreadsheet |
Dear Listers,
I finally weighted the 'ol RV-8 last night. Gulp. As expected, pretty heavy.
I did forget to fill it up with oil before I weighed, however, so I'll have to
redo my weighing after I do that.
In the meantime, I created a spreadsheet to calculate the Weight & Balance. The
sheet calculates a number of common scenarios and allows for the user-entering
of various parameters such as pilot weight and plane weights as well as the
various arms. Its setup for an RV-8, but could very easily be modified for other
models of RVs. After I finished it, I thought other builders might like
to use it as well. It comes with no guarantees whatsoever.
You can click on the link below to download either the PDF or the Excel spreadsheet:
PDF Format:
http://www.matronics.com/MattsRV8/WeightAndBalance/RV-8WeightAndBalance-Version1.0-MattDralle.pdf
Excel Format:
http://www.matronics.com/MattsRV8/WeightAndBalance/RV-8WeightAndBalance-Version1.0-MattDralle.xls
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Blog
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: To Magento - Or Not To Magento |
Thanks. I stand corrected. In fact, in the current price list PDF file, it does
mention 6 cylinder harnesses, etc.
http://www.g3ignition.com/currentprice11.01.09.pdf
Well, that's certainly nice to know. Hopefully, those 7 rv-10 builders can provide
some success reports for future reference.
Jae
jcumins(at)jcis.net wrote:
> According to the owner it does support 6 cyl
>
> John G. Cumins
>
>
> --
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=293720#293720
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| Subject: | Re: To Magento - Or Not To Magento |
It would be even better if they were able to do a 3 leg GPS run with
G3 enabled, followed by one with it disabled, on stock magnetos, so we
could have a real world estimate of power difference.
On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 7:19 PM, jchang10 <jc-matronics_rv10@jline.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks. I stand corrected. In fact, in the current price list PDF file, it does
mention 6 cylinder harnesses, etc.
>
> http://www.g3ignition.com/currentprice11.01.09.pdf
>
> Well, that's certainly nice to know. Hopefully, those 7 rv-10 builders can provide
some success reports for future reference.
>
> Jae
>
>
> jcumins(at)jcis.net wrote:
>> According to the owner it does support 6 cyl
>>
>> John G. Cumins
>>
>>
>> --
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=293720#293720
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: To Magento - Or Not To Magento |
As I noted on my earlier post, if you'll contact Larry Vetterman, he'll give
you the rundown on his experiences running the G3 over two years. I'm
pretty sure he did a writeup on his test results and posted it on VAF. He
was a "beta tester" for G3 if I recall. I remember that a measurable
reduction in fuel burn at cruise was documented, and a "much smoother
engine"...but it's been two years since I read his writeup there. Larry
does 3 leg GPS runs on almost all of his tests (you can check out his
website for some other testing he's done on fairings and stuff), he'll have
that info. One thing he told me in person was that he could easily feel the
difference in power between having the G3 system turned off (running on
stock mags) and turning it on. By the way, the magnetos used with the G3
are stock, they only have a small hole drilled in them to run a wire, no
modifications to the operation or function of the magneto. I think I've
almost talked myself into buying it...
Bob Brown
40871
Do not archive
It would be even better if they were able to do a 3 leg GPS run with
G3 enabled, followed by one with it disabled, on stock magnetos, so we
could have a real world estimate of power difference.
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| Subject: | Re: To Magento - Or Not To Magento |
I have one Lightspeed III on the top and mag on the bottom and have loved the combination.
The plane starts on the first stroke and at altitude I lean the plane back and
it runs smooth.
I do not have any hard data on efficiency but I do know that during my run-up I
get about a 250 RPM drop on the mag and about 20 on the electronic ignition,
it runs more efficient.
There was also an article in Sport Aviation maybe year or more ago that talked
about how much more energy the electronic systems generated vs. the mag.
With the electronic ignition it is recommended to change the plugs every 100 hours.
I find that after 100 hours they are pretty well worn.
There are trade-offs for everything.
This plane built with standard compression and two mags will be just awesome.
I am not sure about the G3 and have no experience or knowledge with it.
Scott Schmidt
scottmschmidt@yahoo.com
________________________________
From: Bob and Karen Brown <bkbrown@minetfiber.com>
Sent: Fri, April 9, 2010 10:18:04 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: To Magento - Or Not To Magento
As I noted on my earlier post, if you'll contact Larry Vetterman, he'll give
you the rundown on his experiences running the G3 over two years. I'm
pretty sure he did a writeup on his test results and posted it on VAF. He
was a "beta tester" for G3 if I recall. I remember that a measurable
reduction in fuel burn at cruise was documented, and a "much smoother
engine"...but it's been two years since I read his writeup there. Larry
does 3 leg GPS runs on almost all of his tests (you can check out his
website for some other testing he's done on fairings and stuff), he'll have
that info. One thing he told me in person was that he could easily feel the
difference in power between having the G3 system turned off (running on
stock mags) and turning it on. By the way, the magnetos used with the G3
are stock, they only have a small hole drilled in them to run a wire, no
modifications to the operation or function of the magneto. I think I've
almost talked myself into buying it...
Bob Brown
40871
Do not archive
It would be even better if they were able to do a 3 leg GPS run with
G3 enabled, followed by one with it disabled, on stock magnetos, so we
could have a real world estimate of power difference.
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