Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:43 AM - Re: RV4-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 06/07/04 (rob ray)
2. 04:53 PM - Re: Re: RV4-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 06/07/04 (Texan4ft@aol.com)
3. 05:10 PM - Re: Re: RV4-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 06/07/04 (rob ray)
4. 05:13 PM - Re: Re: RV4-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 06/07/04 (Rabaut, Chuck)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: RV4-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 06/07/04 |
--> RV4-List message posted by: rob ray <smokyray@yahoo.com>
For landing at short strips with no go-around like Arvil's (less than 1000' with
60' trees) I initially fly a tail low, power-on approach at 70 MPH/62KIAS and
fly aimpoint/airspeed in a controlled descent to about 500' AGL where I transition
to higher AOA slowing to 65 and getting the "sink rate" where I add power
and continue to increase AOA where at 100' from touchdown I am somewhere around
60, tail low, power-on, blind out front (like a Stearman/Pitts landing)
and ready to chop power as soon as the tailwheel touches first. When you pull
power, be ready to land, NOW. Then apply braking, retract flaps and full aft stick
on rollout.
You can actually practice this approach at altitude as a confidence builder that
it won't fall out from under you at 60MPH/full flaps. Your mileage may vary
due to A/S indicators, rigging, etc. Practice slow flight at 2000' sometime with
full flaps and get used to the AOA, feel of the controls and the sink rate.
Also you can see the ball park power requirements at 60 and full flaps for a
200 fpm rate of descent. (Larry Vetterman assures me his VG's reduce all of my
above numbers by 10 knots.) I haven't considered VG's as I don't like their
looks and could only imagine trying to land on a heliport now...yikes! How much
shorter could you ask out of a stock 180 MPH airplane with 22' wings?The RV4
is truly amazing. Another plug for manual flaps, if they failed to retract on
an attempted go around, you could be in a world of hurt on a short strip with
obstacles. SO...just don't go around on short strips!
I have taught this approach to a couple of young F16/RV pilots who mastered
it after one or two practice approaches.It also can be applied to 2000' strips
with 50' approach end obstacles. It works!
Rob Ray
RV4-List Digest Server <rv4-list-digest@matronics.com> wrote:
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Total Messages Posted Mon 06/07/04: 2
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:00 PM - Speaking of Beautiful fixed pitched Props... (Rabaut, Chuck)
2. 08:37 PM - Re: Re: RV-4 Electric vs. Manual trim & Flaps (Scott Vanartsdalen)
________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
Time: 02:00:49 PM PST US
Subject: RV4-List: Speaking of Beautiful fixed pitched Props...
From: "Rabaut, Chuck"
"rv4-list@matronics. com \(E-mail\)" ,
"rv6-list@matronics. com \(E-mail\)" ,
"rv7-list@matronics. com \(E-mail\)" ,
"rv8-list@matronics. com \(E-mail\)" ,
"rv-list@matronics. com \(E-mail\)"
2.6 SUSPICIOUS_RECIPS Similar addresses in recipient list
--> RV4-List message posted by: "Rabaut, Chuck"
Hi guys & Gals,
I just received my new Prop from "CloudCars". It looks BEAUTIFUL. This
prop reminds me of the high quality & low price we use to get from Pacesetter
Props. Pacesetter is no longer in business but man did I love my old Pacesetter
prop. The guy who made my new prop is Jay Anderson. He is very knowledgeable
and willing to work with you to get a custom Prop that you will love.
His prices are extremely fair (I got mine for about $500.oo including s your
price may vary depending on what you want) and the delivery time was only about
6 weeks. For a custom made, quality Prop you can't beat that price with a
stick. You can contact Jay at cloudcars99@yahoo.com or (325) 356-2810. His
motto/slogan is "Quality Wood Propellers at Reasonable Prices". I'm a satisfied
customer.
**note: I get no discount, nor do I have any financial interest in this
business.** We experimental builders & flyers should support small businesses
that provide quality products & service at reasonable prices. That's why
I'm sharing this hot tip with all the RV folks. If you call him, tell 'em Chuck
says "Hi".
Chuck
________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
Time: 08:37:42 PM PST US
From: Scott Vanartsdalen
Subject: Re: RV4-List: Re: RV-4 Electric vs. Manual trim & Flaps
--> RV4-List message posted by: Scott Vanartsdalen
Beautiful! Thanks Arvil. I'm completely with you on the manual flaps and trim.
My electric flap motor decided to make smoke one day, luckily I was on the
ground watching it rather than smelling it on final! All manual for me from now
on.
Arvil wrote:--> RV4-List message posted by: Arvil
Scott,
The RV-4 will fly at 50 miles an hour with full flaps and a little power to matain
your decent, this may be a little high or a little low depending on the prop
and the weight of the plane and how well it is riged, but it will be perty
close , I have a 900 foot strip in north west fla.
that is down hill 3 drgees with 60 foot trees at the end of the runnway , using
a 50mph. approch speed again with a little power an RV-4 using manual flaps can
land in 450 feet with only a little braking and the flaps dumped at tuch down
are just after
Rob Ray, yes the F-16 hot rod known as < Smokey > flys in my strip on a monthly
bases and rarely uses half of it, I flew a 1960 210 in and out of my strip for
severl years with no problem , There is no magic to short field landings I learnd
to fly in 1964 and have aways practices
short field landings , over the years I have had 5 inflight problems that caused
me to make a force landing they were uneventful do to plenty of practices ,at
slow landings, Rob,s Dad also had a force landing that tour up his plane but
do to his slow flight experance he survived the
crash !
The main thing Bob, and Rob, were trying to point out is you are 4 times more likly
to have problems with Elec/ Mechanical, flaps, and trim, then just Mechanical
flaps, and trim , even tho a lot of people havent had eney problems, I prefer
to reduce the ods as much as I can,
Arvil Porter
Scott Vanartsdalen wrote:
> --> RV4-List message posted by: Scott Vanartsdalen
>
> Bob/Ray/others,
> What speed do you use for short field approach? I did all kinds of short field
work in my Champ and doggone one of these days I'm going to learn to slow my
RV-4 down. I'd like a target airspeed to start with (at altitude) and see how
it works then adjust it up or down for my plane.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Oldsfolks@aol.com wrote:
> --> RV4-List message posted by: Oldsfolks@aol.com
>
> I have to agree with Rob Ray on the Manual flaps and trim. If you are flying
> into short and rough strips you need to be able to get positive results, NOW
> !!
> If all your flying is from long paved runways , then the electric may be
> okay,if you like that - I don't.
> My grass strip is 1100 feet long ,with approach between trees, and I have to
> be pretty precise with touchdown point and flap retract in order to get
> braking,if needed.
> Van's says 100 MPH for flaps and I find that is quite sastisfactory. Forcing
> the flaps at higher speed puts extra stress on structures which don't need
> it. If you fly a decent approach you don't need the flaps at higher speeds.
> I always use full flaps for landings for the slowest touchdown speed so I'm
> not adding unecessary stress and loads on the plane. I can land diagonally
> across most runways with less crosswind component,when I am as slow as possible.
> This has worked well for me for 8,000 + hours of bush type flying,with 760
> of that in our RV-4's.
> My preference for your consideration,
>
> Bob Olds RV-4 , N1191X
> A&P , EAA Tech. Counselor
> Charleston,Arkansas
> Real Aviators Fly Taildraggers
>
> --
> Scott VanArtsdalen
> RV-4 N311SV, FLYING!!
>
> When a man does all he can
> though it succeeds not well,
> blame not him that did it."
> -- George Washington
>
--
Scott VanArtsdalen
RV-4 N311SV, FLYING!!
When a man does all he can
though it succeeds not well,
blame not him that did it."
-- George Washington
---------------------------------
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: RV4-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 06/07/04 |
--> RV4-List message posted by: Texan4ft@aol.com
Not being of the military type, but an RV4 owner, I was wondering what AOA
is?
Ole Dave!
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: RV4-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 06/07/04 |
--> RV4-List message posted by: rob ray <smokyray@yahoo.com>
Hi Dave;
Sorry for using abbreviations , it stands for Angle Of Attack. All modern fighters
use an AOA indicator in the Heads Up Display primarily for final approach
and other flight parameters. Airspeed is a tertiary reference, we fly degrees
of AOA. So when I discussed increasing my AOA, I meant angle of attack. You too
can utilize this cool capability in any airplane now with the "bacon saver"
AOA device and the fancier electric ones offered in Van's catalog.
A wing will stall at a given AOA to the relative wind always, regardless of airspeed.
Rob Ray
For a better explanation, go to this site...
http://www.angle-of-attack.com/Better%20way%20to%20Fly.pdf
Texan4ft@aol.com wrote:
--> RV4-List message posted by: Texan4ft@aol.com
Not being of the military type, but an RV4 owner, I was wondering what AOA
is?
Ole Dave!
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: RV4-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 06/07/04 |
--> RV4-List message posted by: "Rabaut, Chuck" <Chuck.Rabaut@fresnosheriff.org>
Angle of Attack, it represents the angle the wing is striking the air flow.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv4-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv4-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Texan4ft@aol.com
Subject: Re: RV4-List: Re: RV4-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 06/07/04
--> RV4-List message posted by: Texan4ft@aol.com
Not being of the military type, but an RV4 owner, I was wondering what AOA
is?
Ole Dave!
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