Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:23 PM - tank dimple dies (John)
2. 05:45 PM - SEC: UNCLASSIFIED tank dimple dies (Francis, David CMDR)
3. 05:46 PM - Re: tank dimple dies ()
4. 06:13 PM - Re: tank dimple dies (Richard E. Tasker)
5. 06:57 PM - Re: tank dimple dies (RV8ter@AOL.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | tank dimple dies |
--> RV7-List message posted by: John <jleclercq@charter.net>
Just where does one acquire these little known tank dimple dies?
Thank you in advance,
John
"Do Not Archive"
RV7-List Digest Server wrote:
> *
>
> ==================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> ==================================================
>
> Today's complete RV7-List Digest can be also be found in either
> of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest
> formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked
> Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII
> version of the RV7-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic
> text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv7-list/Digest.RV7-List.2003-01-29.html
>
> Text Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv7-list/Digest.RV7-List.2003-01-29.txt
>
> ================================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ================================================
>
>
> RV7-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Wed 01/29/03: 8
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 08:11 AM - Re: Landing Light Question (Peter Krok)
> 2. 08:45 AM - Tank dimple Question (Richard Tasker)
> 3. 10:01 AM - Re: Tank dimple Question (Dana Overall)
> 4. 10:46 AM - Re: Tank dimple Question (Scott Bilinski)
> 5. 01:58 PM - SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Tank dimple Question (Francis, David CMDR)
> 6. 02:23 PM - Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Tank dimple Question (Dan Checkoway)
> 7. 05:47 PM - Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Tank dimple Question (Dana Overall)
> 8. 07:44 PM - Re: Tank dimple Question (Burton Loewen)
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
>
> Time: 08:11:06 AM PST US
> From: "Peter Krok" <pkrok@eee.org>
> Subject: RV7-List: RE: Landing Light Question
>
> --> RV7-List message posted by: "Peter Krok" <pkrok@eee.org>
>
> Check out the following site if you want to go ahead with wing tip
> lighting. In other parts of Randy Pflanzer's site he gives a better
> description and cost of the light kit he purchased (about 100 dollars).
> His photos of the project are A1.
>
> http://mywebpages.comcast.net/f1rocket/Wings3.html#Wing%20Tip%20Electric
> al%20Stuff
>
> ...go to his F1 Project "wing tip electrical stuff"
>
> Randy, if you are out there...thanks. Although I already went for the
> Duckworks system and have the lights installed, I would have been
> tempted by the wing tip kit. I don't think I'll ever go for the wing
> tip tanks...my internal tank is not that large...something to do with
> age, I think :(
>
> Anyway, have a good day!
>
> Pete Krok
> RV-7A Wings
> Redlands CA
>
> ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
>
> Time: 08:45:21 AM PST US
> From: Richard Tasker <retasker@optonline.net>
> Subject: RV7-List: Tank dimple Question
>
> --> RV7-List message posted by: Richard Tasker <retasker@optonline.net>
>
> I am starting on the tanks for my RV9A and would like your opinions of
> tank dimple dies vs normal dimple dies.
>
> I understand that the tank dimple dies make a deeper dimple to
> compensate for the pro-seal under the rivet. If one uses the regular
> dimple dies, does that leave the rivets sticking up an objectional
> amoount? If that is the case, what does one do about that?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dick Tasker
>
> ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________
>
> Time: 10:01:47 AM PST US
> From: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: RV7-List: Tank dimple Question
>
> --> RV7-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
>
> Richard,
>
> Sam has a great discussion posted on his website about the differences
> between tank dies and regular 3/32 dies. I now use the tank dies on any
> substructure, ribs, spars, stiffiners etc. where a regular 3/32 skin dimple
> will reside. The tank die dimples allow the skin dimple don't with a
> standard 3/32 die to sit deeper and makes for a much flusher rivet head on
> the skin. I tank dimpled the ribs, and skin, on the tank and it does make a
> difference. Be sure and countersink your skin to baffle joint, with the
> baffle clecoed on, just a little deeper than you would for a regular an3
> rivet head to make up for the gap seal of the proseal.
>
> To answer your question rather bluntly, the tank dies do compensate for the
> proseal better than the standard 3/32 dies.
>
> You only course of action if the flush heads are sticking up so that your
> finger nail catches on them is to use a rivet cutting on each and every
> rivet head.........much easier to just tank dimple them to begin with. I'm
> not saying standard dies don't work, the tank dies are just made for this
> purpose. You will find the substructure use an added benefit.
>
> Dana Overall
> Richmond, KY
> http://rvflying.tripod.com
> do not archive
>
> >From: Richard Tasker <retasker@optonline.net>
> >Reply-To: rv7-list@matronics.com
> >To: rv9-list@matronics.com, rv7-list@matronics.com
> >Subject: RV7-List: Tank dimple Question
> >Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 11:45:14 -0500
> >
> >--> RV7-List message posted by: Richard Tasker <retasker@optonline.net>
> >
> >I am starting on the tanks for my RV9A and would like your opinions of
> >tank dimple dies vs normal dimple dies.
> >
> >I understand that the tank dimple dies make a deeper dimple to
> >compensate for the pro-seal under the rivet. If one uses the regular
> >dimple dies, does that leave the rivets sticking up an objectional
> >amoount? If that is the case, what does one do about that?
> >
> >Thanks,
> >
> >Dick Tasker
> >
> >
>
> ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________
>
> Time: 10:46:20 AM PST US
> From: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@qcpi.com>
> Subject: Re: RV7-List: Tank dimple Question
>
> --> RV7-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@qcpi.com>
>
> Tank dimple dies???? Never heard of them. Of well to late now.
>
> At 12:57 PM 1/29/03 -0500, you wrote:
> >--> RV7-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
> >
> >Richard,
> >
> >Sam has a great discussion posted on his website about the differences
> >between tank dies and regular 3/32 dies. I now use the tank dies on any
> >substructure, ribs, spars, stiffiners etc. where a regular 3/32 skin dimple
> >will reside. The tank die dimples allow the skin dimple don't with a
> >standard 3/32 die to sit deeper and makes for a much flusher rivet head on
> >the skin. I tank dimpled the ribs, and skin, on the tank and it does make a
> >difference. Be sure and countersink your skin to baffle joint, with the
> >baffle clecoed on, just a little deeper than you would for a regular an3
> >rivet head to make up for the gap seal of the proseal.
> >
> >To answer your question rather bluntly, the tank dies do compensate for the
> >proseal better than the standard 3/32 dies.
> >
> >You only course of action if the flush heads are sticking up so that your
> >finger nail catches on them is to use a rivet cutting on each and every
> >rivet head.........much easier to just tank dimple them to begin with. I'm
> >not saying standard dies don't work, the tank dies are just made for this
> >purpose. You will find the substructure use an added benefit.
> >
> >
> >Dana Overall
> >Richmond, KY
> >http://rvflying.tripod.com
> >do not archive
> >
> >
> >>From: Richard Tasker <retasker@optonline.net>
> >>Reply-To: rv7-list@matronics.com
> >>To: rv9-list@matronics.com, rv7-list@matronics.com
> >>Subject: RV7-List: Tank dimple Question
> >>Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 11:45:14 -0500
> >>
> >>--> RV7-List message posted by: Richard Tasker <retasker@optonline.net>
> >>
> >>I am starting on the tanks for my RV9A and would like your opinions of
> >>tank dimple dies vs normal dimple dies.
> >>
> >>I understand that the tank dimple dies make a deeper dimple to
> >>compensate for the pro-seal under the rivet. If one uses the regular
> >>dimple dies, does that leave the rivets sticking up an objectional
> >>amoount? If that is the case, what does one do about that?
> >>
> >>Thanks,
> >>
> >>Dick Tasker
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
> Scott Bilinski
> Eng dept 8220
> Phone (858) 657-2536
> Pager (858) 502-5190
>
> ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________
>
> Time: 01:58:59 PM PST US
> From: "Francis, David CMDR" <David.Francis@defence.gov.au>
> Subject: RV7-List: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Tank dimple Question
>
> --> RV7-List message posted by: "Francis, David CMDR" <David.Francis@defence.gov.au>
>
> Dick,
> The quality of the dimpling determines the quality of the riveting. The
> thicker the skins the less amenable they are to being formed into a dimple.
> You will see in Vans riveting instructions (for non-tank riveting) a
> suggestion to dimple then lightly shamfer the dimple with a deburring tool.
> Another approach is to use the tank dies, which I do on the thicker .025 and
> 0.32 skins.
>
> You do need to make room for the proseal, otherwise the rivets will
> definitely not be flush. You need to countersink some areas and you need to
> allow extra depth. Yes I had to drill out a complete row, and it damages the
> skin.
>
> When dimpling you can either shamfer or use the tank dies. The dies save
> labour and are more consistent.
>
> Have fun with the tanks. You will find the proseal is very friendly - it
> follows you into the house. Weeks later you will find your own fingerprints
> in all sorts of unlikely spots.
>
> David Francis, VH-ZEE. Tanks thankfully finished and tested.
>
> Email: David.Francis@defence.gov.au <mailto:David.Francis@defence.gov.au>
>
>
> --> RV7-List message posted by: Richard Tasker
> <retasker@optonline.net>
>
> I am starting on the tanks for my RV9A and would like your
> opinions of
> tank dimple dies vs normal dimple dies.
>
> I understand that the tank dimple dies make a deeper dimple
> to
> compensate for the pro-seal under the rivet. If one uses
> the regular
> dimple dies, does that leave the rivets sticking up an
> objectional
> amoount? If that is the case, what does one do about that?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dick Tasker
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________
>
> Time: 02:23:49 PM PST US
> From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
> Subject: Re: RV7-List: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Tank dimple Question
>
> --> RV7-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
>
> > You do need to make room for the proseal, otherwise the rivets will
> > definitely not be flush. You need to countersink some areas and you need
> to
> > allow extra depth. Yes I had to drill out a complete row, and it damages
> the
> > skin.
>
> The countersunk holes along the baffle-skin joint don't really need to be
> larger/deeper than the rivet head. The way that joint gets sealed, you're
> supposed to lay a bead of sealant just in FRONT of the rivet holes...as the
> baffle gets pushed into place it smushes the bead into the tank. A bit of
> sealant can get between the baffle and skin, but it's not really supposed to
> be too thick in there. The point I'm making is that if you've got sealant
> seeping out through the baffle-skin rivet holes, you probably used too much
> sealant or applied it more aft than you need to.
>
> Technically, the rivets along the baffle-skin joint don't really have to
> seal anything themselves, unlike the rivets along the ribs. They simply
> function to pinch the baffle and skin together.
>
> If you had to quantify "how much deeper" those holes should be, how would
> you describe it dimensionally? Would you just eyeball it? How much is too
> much? I honestly think those holes are best countersunk at the standard
> depth...so the rivets sit flush normally.
>
> Just my 2 cents, and take it with a grain of salt because I still don't have
> fuel in my tanks!
>
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D (fuselage/finish)
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
> ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________
>
> Time: 05:47:38 PM PST US
> From: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: RV7-List: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Tank dimple Question
>
> --> RV7-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
>
> As Dan pointed out, technically the skin to baffle holes are not part of the
> sealing process, but as David said, Proseal has a way of finding it's way
> into everything. With that said, I had good success in countersinking just
> a "tad" (real technical term there, huh)deeper and the heads came out
> nicely...............with proseal under there?? Dimple and proseal on,
> you'll love it.
>
> Dana Overall
> Richmond, KY
> http://rvflying.tripod.com
> do not archive
>
> >From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
> >
> >Technically, the rivets along the baffle-skin joint don't really have to
> >seal anything themselves, unlike the rivets along the ribs. They simply
> >function to pinch the baffle and skin together.
>
> ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________
>
> Time: 07:44:26 PM PST US
> From: "Burton Loewen" <kbloewen@mts.net>
> Subject: Re: RV7-List: Tank dimple Question
>
> --> RV7-List message posted by: "Burton Loewen" <kbloewen@mts.net>
>
> Just finished the tanks last week for our 7a using regular dies from
> Cleveland. The RAA inspector who did the inspection on the wings and tanks
> just yesterday commented on our great riveting job.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Richard Tasker" <retasker@optonline.net>
> Subject: RV7-List: Tank dimple Question
>
> > --> RV7-List message posted by: Richard Tasker <retasker@optonline.net>
> >
> > I am starting on the tanks for my RV9A and would like your opinions of
> > tank dimple dies vs normal dimple dies.
> >
> > I understand that the tank dimple dies make a deeper dimple to
> > compensate for the pro-seal under the rivet. If one uses the regular
> > dimple dies, does that leave the rivets sticking up an objectional
> > amoount? If that is the case, what does one do about that?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Dick Tasker
> >
> >
>
> ---
>
>
Message 2
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|
| Subject: | SEC: UNCLASSIFIED tank dimple dies |
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Francis, David CMDR" <David.Francis@defence.gov.au>
John,
See cleavelandtool.com part # is DIE 4263T at US$34.00 per set.
Email: David.Francis@defence.gov.au <mailto:David.Francis@defence.gov.au>
Just where does one acquire these little known tank dimple
dies?
Message 3
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|
| Subject: | Re: tank dimple dies |
--> RV7-List message posted by: <tgreene5@cinci.rr.com>
Cleaveland Tools
----- Original Message -----
From: "John" <jleclercq@charter.net>
Subject: RV7-List: tank dimple dies
> --> RV7-List message posted by: John <jleclercq@charter.net>
>
> Just where does one acquire these little known tank dimple dies?
>
> Thank you in advance,
>
> John
>
> "Do Not Archive"
>
> RV7-List Digest Server wrote:
>
> > *
> >
> > ==================================================
> > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> > ==================================================
> >
> > Today's complete RV7-List Digest can be also be found in either
> > of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest
> > formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features
Hyperlinked
> > Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII
> > version of the RV7-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic
> > text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser.
> >
> > HTML Version:
> >
> >
http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv7-list/Digest.RV7-List.2003-01-29.html
> >
> > Text Version:
> >
> >
http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv7-list/Digest.RV7-List.2003-01-29.txt
> >
> > ================================================
> > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> > ================================================
> >
> >
> > RV7-List Digest Archive
> > ---
> > Total Messages Posted Wed 01/29/03: 8
> >
> >
> > Today's Message Index:
> > ----------------------
> >
> > 1. 08:11 AM - Re: Landing Light Question (Peter Krok)
> > 2. 08:45 AM - Tank dimple Question (Richard Tasker)
> > 3. 10:01 AM - Re: Tank dimple Question (Dana Overall)
> > 4. 10:46 AM - Re: Tank dimple Question (Scott Bilinski)
> > 5. 01:58 PM - SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Tank dimple Question (Francis,
David CMDR)
> > 6. 02:23 PM - Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Tank dimple Question (Dan
Checkoway)
> > 7. 05:47 PM - Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Tank dimple Question (Dana
Overall)
> > 8. 07:44 PM - Re: Tank dimple Question (Burton Loewen)
> >
> >
> > ________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
> >
> > Time: 08:11:06 AM PST US
> > From: "Peter Krok" <pkrok@eee.org>
> > Subject: RV7-List: RE: Landing Light Question
> >
> > --> RV7-List message posted by: "Peter Krok" <pkrok@eee.org>
> >
> > Check out the following site if you want to go ahead with wing tip
> > lighting. In other parts of Randy Pflanzer's site he gives a better
> > description and cost of the light kit he purchased (about 100 dollars).
> > His photos of the project are A1.
> >
> > http://mywebpages.comcast.net/f1rocket/Wings3.html#Wing%20Tip%20Electric
> > al%20Stuff
> >
> > ...go to his F1 Project "wing tip electrical stuff"
> >
> > Randy, if you are out there...thanks. Although I already went for the
> > Duckworks system and have the lights installed, I would have been
> > tempted by the wing tip kit. I don't think I'll ever go for the wing
> > tip tanks...my internal tank is not that large...something to do with
> > age, I think :(
> >
> > Anyway, have a good day!
> >
> > Pete Krok
> > RV-7A Wings
> > Redlands CA
> >
> > ________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
> >
> > Time: 08:45:21 AM PST US
> > From: Richard Tasker <retasker@optonline.net>
> > Subject: RV7-List: Tank dimple Question
> >
> > --> RV7-List message posted by: Richard Tasker <retasker@optonline.net>
> >
> > I am starting on the tanks for my RV9A and would like your opinions of
> > tank dimple dies vs normal dimple dies.
> >
> > I understand that the tank dimple dies make a deeper dimple to
> > compensate for the pro-seal under the rivet. If one uses the regular
> > dimple dies, does that leave the rivets sticking up an objectional
> > amoount? If that is the case, what does one do about that?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Dick Tasker
> >
> > ________________________________ Message 3
_____________________________________
> >
> > Time: 10:01:47 AM PST US
> > From: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: RV7-List: Tank dimple Question
> >
> > --> RV7-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
> >
> > Richard,
> >
> > Sam has a great discussion posted on his website about the differences
> > between tank dies and regular 3/32 dies. I now use the tank dies on any
> > substructure, ribs, spars, stiffiners etc. where a regular 3/32 skin
dimple
> > will reside. The tank die dimples allow the skin dimple don't with a
> > standard 3/32 die to sit deeper and makes for a much flusher rivet head
on
> > the skin. I tank dimpled the ribs, and skin, on the tank and it does
make a
> > difference. Be sure and countersink your skin to baffle joint, with the
> > baffle clecoed on, just a little deeper than you would for a regular an3
> > rivet head to make up for the gap seal of the proseal.
> >
> > To answer your question rather bluntly, the tank dies do compensate for
the
> > proseal better than the standard 3/32 dies.
> >
> > You only course of action if the flush heads are sticking up so that
your
> > finger nail catches on them is to use a rivet cutting on each and every
> > rivet head.........much easier to just tank dimple them to begin with.
I'm
> > not saying standard dies don't work, the tank dies are just made for
this
> > purpose. You will find the substructure use an added benefit.
> >
> > Dana Overall
> > Richmond, KY
> > http://rvflying.tripod.com
> > do not archive
> >
> > >From: Richard Tasker <retasker@optonline.net>
> > >Reply-To: rv7-list@matronics.com
> > >To: rv9-list@matronics.com, rv7-list@matronics.com
> > >Subject: RV7-List: Tank dimple Question
> > >Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 11:45:14 -0500
> > >
> > >--> RV7-List message posted by: Richard Tasker <retasker@optonline.net>
> > >
> > >I am starting on the tanks for my RV9A and would like your opinions of
> > >tank dimple dies vs normal dimple dies.
> > >
> > >I understand that the tank dimple dies make a deeper dimple to
> > >compensate for the pro-seal under the rivet. If one uses the regular
> > >dimple dies, does that leave the rivets sticking up an objectional
> > >amoount? If that is the case, what does one do about that?
> > >
> > >Thanks,
> > >
> > >Dick Tasker
> > >
> > >
> >
> > ________________________________ Message 4
_____________________________________
> >
> > Time: 10:46:20 AM PST US
> > From: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@qcpi.com>
> > Subject: Re: RV7-List: Tank dimple Question
> >
> > --> RV7-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@qcpi.com>
> >
> > Tank dimple dies???? Never heard of them. Of well to late now.
> >
> > At 12:57 PM 1/29/03 -0500, you wrote:
> > >--> RV7-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
> > >
> > >Richard,
> > >
> > >Sam has a great discussion posted on his website about the differences
> > >between tank dies and regular 3/32 dies. I now use the tank dies on
any
> > >substructure, ribs, spars, stiffiners etc. where a regular 3/32 skin
dimple
> > >will reside. The tank die dimples allow the skin dimple don't with a
> > >standard 3/32 die to sit deeper and makes for a much flusher rivet head
on
> > >the skin. I tank dimpled the ribs, and skin, on the tank and it does
make a
> > >difference. Be sure and countersink your skin to baffle joint, with
the
> > >baffle clecoed on, just a little deeper than you would for a regular
an3
> > >rivet head to make up for the gap seal of the proseal.
> > >
> > >To answer your question rather bluntly, the tank dies do compensate for
the
> > >proseal better than the standard 3/32 dies.
> > >
> > >You only course of action if the flush heads are sticking up so that
your
> > >finger nail catches on them is to use a rivet cutting on each and every
> > >rivet head.........much easier to just tank dimple them to begin with.
I'm
> > >not saying standard dies don't work, the tank dies are just made for
this
> > >purpose. You will find the substructure use an added benefit.
> > >
> > >
> > >Dana Overall
> > >Richmond, KY
> > >http://rvflying.tripod.com
> > >do not archive
> > >
> > >
> > >>From: Richard Tasker <retasker@optonline.net>
> > >>Reply-To: rv7-list@matronics.com
> > >>To: rv9-list@matronics.com, rv7-list@matronics.com
> > >>Subject: RV7-List: Tank dimple Question
> > >>Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 11:45:14 -0500
> > >>
> > >>--> RV7-List message posted by: Richard Tasker
<retasker@optonline.net>
> > >>
> > >>I am starting on the tanks for my RV9A and would like your opinions of
> > >>tank dimple dies vs normal dimple dies.
> > >>
> > >>I understand that the tank dimple dies make a deeper dimple to
> > >>compensate for the pro-seal under the rivet. If one uses the regular
> > >>dimple dies, does that leave the rivets sticking up an objectional
> > >>amoount? If that is the case, what does one do about that?
> > >>
> > >>Thanks,
> > >>
> > >>Dick Tasker
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Scott Bilinski
> > Eng dept 8220
> > Phone (858) 657-2536
> > Pager (858) 502-5190
> >
> > ________________________________ Message 5
_____________________________________
> >
> > Time: 01:58:59 PM PST US
> > From: "Francis, David CMDR" <David.Francis@defence.gov.au>
> > Subject: RV7-List: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Tank dimple Question
> >
> > --> RV7-List message posted by: "Francis, David CMDR"
<David.Francis@defence.gov.au>
> >
> > Dick,
> > The quality of the dimpling determines the quality of the riveting. The
> > thicker the skins the less amenable they are to being formed into a
dimple.
> > You will see in Vans riveting instructions (for non-tank riveting) a
> > suggestion to dimple then lightly shamfer the dimple with a deburring
tool.
> > Another approach is to use the tank dies, which I do on the thicker .025
and
> > 0.32 skins.
> >
> > You do need to make room for the proseal, otherwise the rivets will
> > definitely not be flush. You need to countersink some areas and you need
to
> > allow extra depth. Yes I had to drill out a complete row, and it damages
the
> > skin.
> >
> > When dimpling you can either shamfer or use the tank dies. The dies save
> > labour and are more consistent.
> >
> > Have fun with the tanks. You will find the proseal is very friendly - it
> > follows you into the house. Weeks later you will find your own
fingerprints
> > in all sorts of unlikely spots.
> >
> > David Francis, VH-ZEE. Tanks thankfully finished and tested.
> >
> > Email: David.Francis@defence.gov.au
<mailto:David.Francis@defence.gov.au>
> >
> >
> > --> RV7-List message posted by: Richard Tasker
> > <retasker@optonline.net>
> >
> > I am starting on the tanks for my RV9A and would like
your
> > opinions of
> > tank dimple dies vs normal dimple dies.
> >
> > I understand that the tank dimple dies make a deeper
dimple
> > to
> > compensate for the pro-seal under the rivet. If one
uses
> > the regular
> > dimple dies, does that leave the rivets sticking up an
> > objectional
> > amoount? If that is the case, what does one do about
that?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Dick Tasker
> >
> >
> > ________________________________ Message 6
_____________________________________
> >
> > Time: 02:23:49 PM PST US
> > From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
> > Subject: Re: RV7-List: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Tank dimple Question
> >
> > --> RV7-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
> >
> > > You do need to make room for the proseal, otherwise the rivets will
> > > definitely not be flush. You need to countersink some areas and you
need
> > to
> > > allow extra depth. Yes I had to drill out a complete row, and it
damages
> > the
> > > skin.
> >
> > The countersunk holes along the baffle-skin joint don't really need to
be
> > larger/deeper than the rivet head. The way that joint gets sealed,
you're
> > supposed to lay a bead of sealant just in FRONT of the rivet holes...as
the
> > baffle gets pushed into place it smushes the bead into the tank. A bit
of
> > sealant can get between the baffle and skin, but it's not really
supposed to
> > be too thick in there. The point I'm making is that if you've got
sealant
> > seeping out through the baffle-skin rivet holes, you probably used too
much
> > sealant or applied it more aft than you need to.
> >
> > Technically, the rivets along the baffle-skin joint don't really have to
> > seal anything themselves, unlike the rivets along the ribs. They simply
> > function to pinch the baffle and skin together.
> >
> > If you had to quantify "how much deeper" those holes should be, how
would
> > you describe it dimensionally? Would you just eyeball it? How much is
too
> > much? I honestly think those holes are best countersunk at the standard
> > depth...so the rivets sit flush normally.
> >
> > Just my 2 cents, and take it with a grain of salt because I still don't
have
> > fuel in my tanks!
> >
> > )_( Dan
> > RV-7 N714D (fuselage/finish)
> > http://www.rvproject.com
> >
> > ________________________________ Message 7
_____________________________________
> >
> > Time: 05:47:38 PM PST US
> > From: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: RV7-List: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Tank dimple Question
> >
> > --> RV7-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
> >
> > As Dan pointed out, technically the skin to baffle holes are not part of
the
> > sealing process, but as David said, Proseal has a way of finding it's
way
> > into everything. With that said, I had good success in countersinking
just
> > a "tad" (real technical term there, huh)deeper and the heads came out
> > nicely...............with proseal under there?? Dimple and proseal on,
> > you'll love it.
> >
> > Dana Overall
> > Richmond, KY
> > http://rvflying.tripod.com
> > do not archive
> >
> > >From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
> > >
> > >Technically, the rivets along the baffle-skin joint don't really have
to
> > >seal anything themselves, unlike the rivets along the ribs. They
simply
> > >function to pinch the baffle and skin together.
> >
> > ________________________________ Message 8
_____________________________________
> >
> > Time: 07:44:26 PM PST US
> > From: "Burton Loewen" <kbloewen@mts.net>
> > Subject: Re: RV7-List: Tank dimple Question
> >
> > --> RV7-List message posted by: "Burton Loewen" <kbloewen@mts.net>
> >
> > Just finished the tanks last week for our 7a using regular dies from
> > Cleveland. The RAA inspector who did the inspection on the wings and
tanks
> > just yesterday commented on our great riveting job.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Richard Tasker" <retasker@optonline.net>
> > Subject: RV7-List: Tank dimple Question
> >
> > > --> RV7-List message posted by: Richard Tasker
<retasker@optonline.net>
> > >
> > > I am starting on the tanks for my RV9A and would like your opinions of
> > > tank dimple dies vs normal dimple dies.
> > >
> > > I understand that the tank dimple dies make a deeper dimple to
> > > compensate for the pro-seal under the rivet. If one uses the regular
> > > dimple dies, does that leave the rivets sticking up an objectional
> > > amoount? If that is the case, what does one do about that?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Dick Tasker
> > >
> > >
> >
> > ---
> >
> >
>
>
Message 4
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|
| Subject: | Re: tank dimple dies |
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker@optonline.net>
Cleaveland Tool - http://www5.mailordercentral.com/clevtool/Home.asp
Enter "Dimple" in the search box or just "drill down" using the menu
item pictures.
Dick Tasker
John wrote:
>--> RV7-List message posted by: John <jleclercq@charter.net>
>
>Just where does one acquire these little known tank dimple dies?
>
>Thank you in advance,
>
>John
>
>"Do Not Archive"
>
>RV7-List Digest Server wrote:
>
>
>
>>*
>>
>> ==================================================
>> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
>> ==================================================
>>
>>Today's complete RV7-List Digest can be also be found in either
>>of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest
>>formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked
>>Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII
>>version of the RV7-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic
>>text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>>
>>HTML Version:
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv7-list/Digest.RV7-List.2003-01-29.html
>>
>>Text Version:
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv7-list/Digest.RV7-List.2003-01-29.txt
>>
>> ================================================
>> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
>> ================================================
>>
>>
>> RV7-List Digest Archive
>> ---
>> Total Messages Posted Wed 01/29/03: 8
>>
>>
>>Today's Message Index:
>>----------------------
>>
>> 1. 08:11 AM - Re: Landing Light Question (Peter Krok)
>> 2. 08:45 AM - Tank dimple Question (Richard Tasker)
>> 3. 10:01 AM - Re: Tank dimple Question (Dana Overall)
>> 4. 10:46 AM - Re: Tank dimple Question (Scott Bilinski)
>> 5. 01:58 PM - SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Tank dimple Question (Francis, David CMDR)
>> 6. 02:23 PM - Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Tank dimple Question (Dan Checkoway)
>> 7. 05:47 PM - Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Tank dimple Question (Dana Overall)
>> 8. 07:44 PM - Re: Tank dimple Question (Burton Loewen)
>>
>>
>>________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
>>
>>Time: 08:11:06 AM PST US
>>From: "Peter Krok" <pkrok@eee.org>
>>Subject: RV7-List: RE: Landing Light Question
>>
>>--> RV7-List message posted by: "Peter Krok" <pkrok@eee.org>
>>
>>Check out the following site if you want to go ahead with wing tip
>>lighting. In other parts of Randy Pflanzer's site he gives a better
>>description and cost of the light kit he purchased (about 100 dollars).
>>His photos of the project are A1.
>>
>>http://mywebpages.comcast.net/f1rocket/Wings3.html#Wing%20Tip%20Electric
>>al%20Stuff
>>
>>...go to his F1 Project "wing tip electrical stuff"
>>
>>Randy, if you are out there...thanks. Although I already went for the
>>Duckworks system and have the lights installed, I would have been
>>tempted by the wing tip kit. I don't think I'll ever go for the wing
>>tip tanks...my internal tank is not that large...something to do with
>>age, I think :(
>>
>>Anyway, have a good day!
>>
>>Pete Krok
>>RV-7A Wings
>>Redlands CA
>>
>>________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
>>
>>Time: 08:45:21 AM PST US
>>From: Richard Tasker <retasker@optonline.net>
>>Subject: RV7-List: Tank dimple Question
>>
>>--> RV7-List message posted by: Richard Tasker <retasker@optonline.net>
>>
>>I am starting on the tanks for my RV9A and would like your opinions of
>>tank dimple dies vs normal dimple dies.
>>
>>I understand that the tank dimple dies make a deeper dimple to
>>compensate for the pro-seal under the rivet. If one uses the regular
>>dimple dies, does that leave the rivets sticking up an objectional
>>amoount? If that is the case, what does one do about that?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Dick Tasker
>>
>>________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________
>>
>>Time: 10:01:47 AM PST US
>>From: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
>>Subject: Re: RV7-List: Tank dimple Question
>>
>>--> RV7-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
>>
>>Richard,
>>
>>Sam has a great discussion posted on his website about the differences
>>between tank dies and regular 3/32 dies. I now use the tank dies on any
>>substructure, ribs, spars, stiffiners etc. where a regular 3/32 skin dimple
>>will reside. The tank die dimples allow the skin dimple don't with a
>>standard 3/32 die to sit deeper and makes for a much flusher rivet head on
>>the skin. I tank dimpled the ribs, and skin, on the tank and it does make a
>>difference. Be sure and countersink your skin to baffle joint, with the
>>baffle clecoed on, just a little deeper than you would for a regular an3
>>rivet head to make up for the gap seal of the proseal.
>>
>>To answer your question rather bluntly, the tank dies do compensate for the
>>proseal better than the standard 3/32 dies.
>>
>>You only course of action if the flush heads are sticking up so that your
>>finger nail catches on them is to use a rivet cutting on each and every
>>rivet head.........much easier to just tank dimple them to begin with. I'm
>>not saying standard dies don't work, the tank dies are just made for this
>>purpose. You will find the substructure use an added benefit.
>>
>>Dana Overall
>>Richmond, KY
>>http://rvflying.tripod.com
>>do not archive
>>
>>
>>
>>>From: Richard Tasker <retasker@optonline.net>
>>>Reply-To: rv7-list@matronics.com
>>>To: rv9-list@matronics.com, rv7-list@matronics.com
>>>Subject: RV7-List: Tank dimple Question
>>>Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 11:45:14 -0500
>>>
>>>--> RV7-List message posted by: Richard Tasker <retasker@optonline.net>
>>>
>>>I am starting on the tanks for my RV9A and would like your opinions of
>>>tank dimple dies vs normal dimple dies.
>>>
>>>I understand that the tank dimple dies make a deeper dimple to
>>>compensate for the pro-seal under the rivet. If one uses the regular
>>>dimple dies, does that leave the rivets sticking up an objectional
>>>amoount? If that is the case, what does one do about that?
>>>
>>>Thanks,
>>>
>>>Dick Tasker
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________
>>
>>Time: 10:46:20 AM PST US
>>From: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@qcpi.com>
>>Subject: Re: RV7-List: Tank dimple Question
>>
>>--> RV7-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@qcpi.com>
>>
>>Tank dimple dies???? Never heard of them. Of well to late now.
>>
>>At 12:57 PM 1/29/03 -0500, you wrote:
>>
>>
>>>--> RV7-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
>>>
>>>Richard,
>>>
>>>Sam has a great discussion posted on his website about the differences
>>>between tank dies and regular 3/32 dies. I now use the tank dies on any
>>>substructure, ribs, spars, stiffiners etc. where a regular 3/32 skin dimple
>>>will reside. The tank die dimples allow the skin dimple don't with a
>>>standard 3/32 die to sit deeper and makes for a much flusher rivet head on
>>>the skin. I tank dimpled the ribs, and skin, on the tank and it does make a
>>>difference. Be sure and countersink your skin to baffle joint, with the
>>>baffle clecoed on, just a little deeper than you would for a regular an3
>>>rivet head to make up for the gap seal of the proseal.
>>>
>>>To answer your question rather bluntly, the tank dies do compensate for the
>>>proseal better than the standard 3/32 dies.
>>>
>>>You only course of action if the flush heads are sticking up so that your
>>>finger nail catches on them is to use a rivet cutting on each and every
>>>rivet head.........much easier to just tank dimple them to begin with. I'm
>>>not saying standard dies don't work, the tank dies are just made for this
>>>purpose. You will find the substructure use an added benefit.
>>>
>>>
>>>Dana Overall
>>>Richmond, KY
>>>http://rvflying.tripod.com
>>>do not archive
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>From: Richard Tasker <retasker@optonline.net>
>>>>Reply-To: rv7-list@matronics.com
>>>>To: rv9-list@matronics.com, rv7-list@matronics.com
>>>>Subject: RV7-List: Tank dimple Question
>>>>Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 11:45:14 -0500
>>>>
>>>>--> RV7-List message posted by: Richard Tasker <retasker@optonline.net>
>>>>
>>>>I am starting on the tanks for my RV9A and would like your opinions of
>>>>tank dimple dies vs normal dimple dies.
>>>>
>>>>I understand that the tank dimple dies make a deeper dimple to
>>>>compensate for the pro-seal under the rivet. If one uses the regular
>>>>dimple dies, does that leave the rivets sticking up an objectional
>>>>amoount? If that is the case, what does one do about that?
>>>>
>>>>Thanks,
>>>>
>>>>Dick Tasker
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Scott Bilinski
>>Eng dept 8220
>>Phone (858) 657-2536
>>Pager (858) 502-5190
>>
>>________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________
>>
>>Time: 01:58:59 PM PST US
>>From: "Francis, David CMDR" <David.Francis@defence.gov.au>
>>Subject: RV7-List: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Tank dimple Question
>>
>>--> RV7-List message posted by: "Francis, David CMDR" <David.Francis@defence.gov.au>
>>
>>Dick,
>>The quality of the dimpling determines the quality of the riveting. The
>>thicker the skins the less amenable they are to being formed into a dimple.
>>You will see in Vans riveting instructions (for non-tank riveting) a
>>suggestion to dimple then lightly shamfer the dimple with a deburring tool.
>>Another approach is to use the tank dies, which I do on the thicker .025 and
>>0.32 skins.
>>
>>You do need to make room for the proseal, otherwise the rivets will
>>definitely not be flush. You need to countersink some areas and you need to
>>allow extra depth. Yes I had to drill out a complete row, and it damages the
>>skin.
>>
>>When dimpling you can either shamfer or use the tank dies. The dies save
>>labour and are more consistent.
>>
>>Have fun with the tanks. You will find the proseal is very friendly - it
>>follows you into the house. Weeks later you will find your own fingerprints
>>in all sorts of unlikely spots.
>>
>>David Francis, VH-ZEE. Tanks thankfully finished and tested.
>>
>>Email: David.Francis@defence.gov.au <mailto:David.Francis@defence.gov.au>
>>
>>
>> --> RV7-List message posted by: Richard Tasker
>><retasker@optonline.net>
>>
>> I am starting on the tanks for my RV9A and would like your
>>opinions of
>> tank dimple dies vs normal dimple dies.
>>
>> I understand that the tank dimple dies make a deeper dimple
>>to
>> compensate for the pro-seal under the rivet. If one uses
>>the regular
>> dimple dies, does that leave the rivets sticking up an
>>objectional
>> amoount? If that is the case, what does one do about that?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Dick Tasker
>>
>>
>>________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________
>>
>>Time: 02:23:49 PM PST US
>>From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
>>Subject: Re: RV7-List: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Tank dimple Question
>>
>>--> RV7-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
>>
>>
>>
>>>You do need to make room for the proseal, otherwise the rivets will
>>>definitely not be flush. You need to countersink some areas and you need
>>>
>>>
>>to
>>
>>
>>>allow extra depth. Yes I had to drill out a complete row, and it damages
>>>
>>>
>>the
>>
>>
>>>skin.
>>>
>>>
>>The countersunk holes along the baffle-skin joint don't really need to be
>>larger/deeper than the rivet head. The way that joint gets sealed, you're
>>supposed to lay a bead of sealant just in FRONT of the rivet holes...as the
>>baffle gets pushed into place it smushes the bead into the tank. A bit of
>>sealant can get between the baffle and skin, but it's not really supposed to
>>be too thick in there. The point I'm making is that if you've got sealant
>>seeping out through the baffle-skin rivet holes, you probably used too much
>>sealant or applied it more aft than you need to.
>>
>>Technically, the rivets along the baffle-skin joint don't really have to
>>seal anything themselves, unlike the rivets along the ribs. They simply
>>function to pinch the baffle and skin together.
>>
>>If you had to quantify "how much deeper" those holes should be, how would
>>you describe it dimensionally? Would you just eyeball it? How much is too
>>much? I honestly think those holes are best countersunk at the standard
>>depth...so the rivets sit flush normally.
>>
>>Just my 2 cents, and take it with a grain of salt because I still don't have
>>fuel in my tanks!
>>
>>)_( Dan
>>RV-7 N714D (fuselage/finish)
>>http://www.rvproject.com
>>
>>________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________
>>
>>Time: 05:47:38 PM PST US
>>From: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
>>Subject: Re: RV7-List: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Tank dimple Question
>>
>>--> RV7-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
>>
>>As Dan pointed out, technically the skin to baffle holes are not part of the
>>sealing process, but as David said, Proseal has a way of finding it's way
>>into everything. With that said, I had good success in countersinking just
>>a "tad" (real technical term there, huh)deeper and the heads came out
>>nicely...............with proseal under there?? Dimple and proseal on,
>>you'll love it.
>>
>>Dana Overall
>>Richmond, KY
>>http://rvflying.tripod.com
>>do not archive
>>
>>
>>
>>>From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
>>>
>>>Technically, the rivets along the baffle-skin joint don't really have to
>>>seal anything themselves, unlike the rivets along the ribs. They simply
>>>function to pinch the baffle and skin together.
>>>
>>>
>>________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________
>>
>>Time: 07:44:26 PM PST US
>>From: "Burton Loewen" <kbloewen@mts.net>
>>Subject: Re: RV7-List: Tank dimple Question
>>
>>--> RV7-List message posted by: "Burton Loewen" <kbloewen@mts.net>
>>
>>Just finished the tanks last week for our 7a using regular dies from
>>Cleveland. The RAA inspector who did the inspection on the wings and tanks
>>just yesterday commented on our great riveting job.
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Richard Tasker" <retasker@optonline.net>
>>Subject: RV7-List: Tank dimple Question
>>
>>
>>
>>>--> RV7-List message posted by: Richard Tasker <retasker@optonline.net>
>>>
>>>I am starting on the tanks for my RV9A and would like your opinions of
>>>tank dimple dies vs normal dimple dies.
>>>
>>>I understand that the tank dimple dies make a deeper dimple to
>>>compensate for the pro-seal under the rivet. If one uses the regular
>>>dimple dies, does that leave the rivets sticking up an objectional
>>>amoount? If that is the case, what does one do about that?
>>>
>>>Thanks,
>>>
>>>Dick Tasker
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>---
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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|
| Subject: | Re: tank dimple dies |
--> RV7-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com
As a datapoint, I think it was Ken at Vans who told me over the phone not to
bother with the tank dimple dies and that he didn't think they used them
their. He said what you should do is take the time to push each rivet in
completely with a nail head before putting tape over the rivets and riveting
them. The sealant doesn't compress so if the rivet isn't seated enough it
will extend out but a standard dimple is fine and you should take the time to
ensure the rivet head is pushed in all the way.
Also, the nicest slow build RV I have ever seen did not used tank dimple dies
either and all the rivets are artwork.
do not archive
lucky
In a message dated 1/30/2003 8:52:55 PM Eastern Standard Time,
tgreene5@cinci.rr.com writes:
> Subj: Re: RV7-List: tank dimple dies
> Date: 1/30/2003 8:52:55 PM Eastern Standard Time
> From: <A HREF="mailto:tgreene5@cinci.rr.com">tgreene5@cinci.rr.com
> Reply-to: <A HREF="mailto:rv7-list@matronics.com">rv7-list@matronics.com
> To: <A HREF="mailto:rv7-list@matronics.com">rv7-list@matronics.com
> Sent from the Internet
>
>
>
> --> RV7-List message posted by: <tgreene5@cinci.rr.com>
>
> Cleaveland Tools
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John" <jleclercq@charter.net>
> To: <rv7-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RV7-List: tank dimple dies
>
>
> >--> RV7-List message posted by: John <jleclercq@charter.net>
> >
> >Just where does one acquire these little known tank dimple dies?
> >
> >Thank you in advance,
> >
> >John
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