Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:29 AM - Stringer (flutewitch)
2. 07:38 AM - Re: Gusset questions (Bob Collins)
3. 08:09 AM - Re: Stringer (Dean Van Winkle)
4. 08:11 AM - Re: RV7-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 08/17/05 (pat morency)
5. 09:32 AM - Re: Stringer (Dan Checkoway)
6. 01:37 PM - More gusset questions (bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net)
7. 02:05 PM - Re: More gusset questions (Dan Checkoway)
8. 02:29 PM - Re: Stringer (Sargentclt@cs.com)
9. 02:52 PM - Re: More gusset questions (bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net)
10. 03:23 PM - Re: More gusset questions (Dan Checkoway)
11. 03:36 PM - Re: More gusset questions (bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net)
12. 07:14 PM - Re: More gusset questions (Jamie Painter)
Message 1
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--> RV7-List message posted by: flutewitch <flutewitch@cox.net>
I am building and RV-7. A friend of mine has a beautiful flying RV-8 and
suggested to me that I should run an additional center stringer down the
center of the aft fuselage from the back of the baggage compartment to the
last bulkhead to help prevent oil caning of the skins. The distance on the 7
between bulkheads is rather short and it doesn't appear that oil canning
would be an issue, I think the 8 has a slightly longer fuselage. Has any one
else considered doing this?
Bill Cormier
Sturbridge MA
Message 2
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| Subject: | Gusset questions |
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net>
Hi Paul:
I suspect that -- given my tendency to poke along -- you're about two
months away from being one month ahead of ME. (g)
So...likewise. (g)
Regards,
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Merems
Subject: Re: RV7-List: Gusset questions
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Merems" <merems@cox.net>
Bob,
I am a month or so behind you and hope to learn from your posting.
Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Collins
To: rv7-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 5:40 PM
Subject: RV7-List: Gusset questions
Message 3
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--> RV7-List message posted by: "Dean Van Winkle" <dvanwinkle@royell.net>
Bill
I had an obvious oil can in the bay just aft of the baggage area. I bridged
the can with a piece of J stringer between the two bulkheads. I saw no need
to extend the extra stringer any further aft.
Dean Van Winkle
RV-9A Fuselage/Finish
----- Original Message -----
From: "flutewitch" <flutewitch@cox.net>
Subject: RV7-List: Stringer
> --> RV7-List message posted by: flutewitch <flutewitch@cox.net>
>
> I am building and RV-7. A friend of mine has a beautiful flying RV-8 and
> suggested to me that I should run an additional center stringer down the
> center of the aft fuselage from the back of the baggage compartment to the
> last bulkhead to help prevent oil caning of the skins. The distance on the
> 7
> between bulkheads is rather short and it doesn't appear that oil canning
> would be an issue, I think the 8 has a slightly longer fuselage. Has any
> one
> else considered doing this?
>
> Bill Cormier
> Sturbridge MA
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: RV7-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 08/17/05 |
--> RV7-List message posted by: pat morency <acwrench@yahoo.ca>
I enjoy reading these messages as I'm building an -6
and I'm getting close to the "gusset" area my self.
A friend of mine is building a -7 so I get to see his
drawings and because their much more clear than the -6
drawings it helps to move things along.
My point is, unless I'm wrong, my drawings put the
gussets, f-656, at the f606 an f607 bulkhead this
should be f706 and f707 for the -7 ( see drawing # 26
of the -7 package ) . I hope I'm right, I'd hate to
plug the extra holes in this thing.
Patrick in Calgary
--- RV7-List Digest Server
<rv7-list-digest@matronics.com> wrote:
> *
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> RV7-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Wed
> 08/17/05: 3
>
>
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 05:40 PM - Gusset questions (Bob Collins)
> 2. 06:50 PM - Re: Gusset questions (Brian
> Meyette)
> 3. 08:54 PM - Re: Gusset questions (Merems)
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 05:40:47 PM PST US
> From: "Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net>
> Subject: RV7-List: Gusset questions
>
> --> RV7-List message posted by: "Bob Collins"
> <bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net>
>
>
> I have a couple of questions on gussets and Van's
> has been relatively curt
> and unhelpful on one of them.
>
> The first one involves the gusset on the seatbacks
> to the main longeron.
> Here's my situation. Following Van's instructions, I
> have riveted onlyt he
> "keeper" rivets in the longeron and no others. I
> have fitted, modified and
> prepped the gusset (I think it's 656). There's that
> big honkin' piece of
> angle I prepped months ago but did not drill to the
> 705 bulkhead,,,these are
> the four prepunched holes in the bulkhead and in the
> gusset itself. But
> after fitting the three. I drilled these four holes.
>
> So the longeron rivets on the skin have not been
> shot. And I notice that
> the large piece of angle -- the 705G -- is slightly
> blocking the side skin
> to longeron holes. Being mindful of the warnings not
> to rivet the side skin
> to the longeron except for the "keeper" rivet holes
> provided, I am thus
> faced with riveting the gussets/705g and 705
> bulkhead now...leaving me with
> a real problem when I go to shoot those side
> skin-to-longeron rivets are
> going to be blocked by the angle when I got to shoot
> them.
>
> So it seems that the only logical solution is to
> shoot those side
> skin-to-longeron rivets now....THEN rivet the
> 705G-bulkhead-and gusset
> together and screw the instructions about the
> longeron rivets.
>
> That's what I asked Van's. But they (well, Ken) sent
> me back this detailed
> e-mail, "or rivet in 705g after skins are on as
> suggested in note 5."
>
> Nice. Not only didn't I get an answer to the
> question I asked. I also got a
> little "shot" for no extra charge. The point was, I
> know all about Note 5.
> I read Note 5. I DID wait to rivet the 705G until
> the skins are already on.
> THE SKINS _are_ ALREADY ON!! (Sorry). That's why I
> wrote you, Van's. The
> skins are, you told me not to rivet the longerons,
> yo told me TO rivet the
> gusset. If I rivet the gusset, my path to those
> longeron rivets is going to
> be blocked by the 705G.
>
> It seemed like a simple question. Van's punted. What
> do you folks say?
>
> -0-
>
> On the next gusset. The 695-- that connects the
> longeron to the firewall,
> everything has fit perfectly and I've drilled it.
> Everything's great. But
> I'm concerned that the rivet holes are too close to
> the web of the engine
> mount reinforcement bracket... 7/32" as near as I
> can tell. Pretty tight.
> Wondering if anyone has had similar measurements and
> whether you had any
> problems setting those rivets?
>
> I love Van's. I love this kit. I'm having a great
> time. But I wouldn't mind
> seeing a full-time tech support guy to replace 5
> guys who obviously have
> other stuff to do.
>
> Bob
> St. Paul
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 06:50:54 PM PST US
> From: "Brian Meyette" <brianpublic@starband.net>
> Subject: RE: RV7-List: Gusset questions
>
> --> RV7-List message posted by: "Brian Meyette"
> <brianpublic@starband.net>
>
> Ken isn't Van's most gushingly friendly employee -
> he can be rather curt &
> sometimes unhelpful
> brian
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com]On
> Behalf Of Bob Collins
> Subject: RV7-List: Gusset questions
>
> --> RV7-List message posted by: "Bob Collins"
> <bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net>
>
>
> I have a couple of questions on gussets and Van's
> has been relatively curt
> and unhelpful on one of them.
>
> The first one involves the gusset on the seatbacks
> to the main longeron.
> Here's my situation. Following Van's instructions, I
> have riveted onlyt he
> "keeper" rivets in the longeron and no others. I
> have fitted, modified and
> prepped the gusset (I think it's 656). There's that
> big honkin' piece of
> angle I prepped months ago but did not drill to the
> 705 bulkhead,,,these are
> the four prepunched holes in the bulkhead and in the
> gusset itself. But
> after fitting the three. I drilled these four holes.
>
> So the longeron rivets on the skin have not been
> shot.
=== message truncated ===
Message 5
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--> RV7-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
Yeah, in fact something I'm going to do at my semi-annual in a month or two
(mid-year inspection) is to put stiffeners on ALL tailcone skins below the
stringers. Lower side panels and belly panels.
They don't oil can, but they pucker a little. There's one which pushes in
when I fly, and as just as I'm slowing down to land you can hear it "pong"
back out.
Wish I had put stiffeners back there when I built it.
I'm just going to proseal some lightweight .025 angle back there, either
diagonally or straight across each large quadrant of skin.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "flutewitch" <flutewitch@cox.net>
Subject: RV7-List: Stringer
> --> RV7-List message posted by: flutewitch <flutewitch@cox.net>
>
> I am building and RV-7. A friend of mine has a beautiful flying RV-8 and
> suggested to me that I should run an additional center stringer down the
> center of the aft fuselage from the back of the baggage compartment to the
> last bulkhead to help prevent oil caning of the skins. The distance on the
> 7
> between bulkheads is rather short and it doesn't appear that oil canning
> would be an issue, I think the 8 has a slightly longer fuselage. Has any
> one
> else considered doing this?
>
> Bill Cormier
> Sturbridge MA
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | More gusset questions |
--> RV7-List message posted by: bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net
I posted two questions last night about the gussets and while I got some advice,
I didn't get any answers, which is odd considering it appears there are a bunch
of folks here who have actually built RV7s, as near as I can figure.
So let me try again.
On the question of the seatback gussets:
___ Go ahead and rivet the skins to the longerons in that area, then rivet the
705G, bulkhead and gusset after that. It's OK to do it now.
___ Whatever you do, DON'T rive the skins to the longerons. Can't you read the
instructions you idiot? But rivet the gusset and the 705 G now and you can always
drive rivets with half bucktails in the longeron later.
___ Gussets? You mean there were gussets that were supposed to go on the plane
I'm flying? Oops.
____ We're not going to tell you until you go buy a pneumatic squeezer you half-a-man,you.
____ OK, you got us. We're not really flying our RVs. We made it up. But we had
to do something after our contract to fake man landing on the moon ran out. Sorry.
____ Dammit, Bob, this list isn't for questions from people who are building RVs.
What are you thinking? Come back later when you have something irrelevant
to ask.
Regards,
Bob
St. Paul
do not archive
I posted two questions last night about the gussets and while I got some advice,
I didn't get any answers, which is odd considering it appears there are a bunch
of folks here who have actually built RV7s, as near as I can figure.
So let me try again.
On the question of the seatback gussets:
___ Go ahead and rivet the skins to the longerons in that area, then rivet the
705G, bulkhead and gusset after that. It's OK to do it now.
___ Whatever you do, DON'T rive the skins to the longerons. Can't you read the
instructions you idiot? But rivet the gusset and the 705 G now and you can always
drive rivets with half bucktails in the longeron later.
___ Gussets? You mean there were gussets that were supposed to go on the plane
I'm flying? Oops.
____ We're not going to tell you until you go buy a pneumatic squeezer you half-a-man,you.
____ OK, you got us. We're not really flying our RVs. We made it up. But we had
to do something after our contract to fake man landing on the moon ran out. Sorry.
____ Dammit, Bob, this list isn't for questions from people who are building RVs.
What are you thinking? Come back later when you have something irrelevant to
ask.
Regards,
Bob
St. Paul
do not archive
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: More gusset questions |
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
My 2 cents is...follow the order as laid out in the construction manual.
But I don't know about this half bucktail thing. If you centered the
skin-to-longeron holes on the longeron, I don't see the issue with bucking
the skin rivets. Are your skin-to-longeron holes up high, near the vertex
of the longeron, or something?
If you'll have an issue bucking rivets due to other rivet heads interfering
with a bucking bar, then it sounds more like an edge distance to me.
Maybe if you have some photos handy I can make a more educated guess as to
what advice you want to hear!
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net>
Subject: RV7-List: More gusset questions
> --> RV7-List message posted by: bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net
>
> I posted two questions last night about the gussets and while I got some
> advice, I didn't get any answers, which is odd considering it appears
> there are a bunch of folks here who have actually built RV7s, as near as I
> can figure.
> So let me try again.
> On the question of the seatback gussets:
> ___ Go ahead and rivet the skins to the longerons in that area, then
> rivet the 705G, bulkhead and gusset after that. It's OK to do it now.
> ___ Whatever you do, DON'T rive the skins to the longerons. Can't you read
> the instructions you idiot? But rivet the gusset and the 705 G now and
> you can always drive rivets with half bucktails in the longeron later.
> ___ Gussets? You mean there were gussets that were supposed to go on the
> plane I'm flying? Oops.
> ____ We're not going to tell you until you go buy a pneumatic squeezer you
> half-a-man,you.
> ____ OK, you got us. We're not really flying our RVs. We made it up. But
> we had to do something after our contract to fake man landing on the moon
> ran out. Sorry.
> ____ Dammit, Bob, this list isn't for questions from people who are
> building RVs. What are you thinking? Come back later when you have
> something irrelevant to ask.
> Regards,
> Bob
> St. Paul
>
> do not archive
>
>
> I posted two questions last night about the gussets and while I got some
> advice, I didn't get any answers, which is odd considering it appears
> there are a bunch of folks here who have actually built RV7s, as near as I
> can figure.
>
>
> So let me try again.
>
>
> On the question of the seatback gussets:
>
>
> ___ Go ahead and rivet the skins to the longerons in that area, then rivet
> the 705G, bulkhead and gusset after that. It's OK to do it now.
>
>
> ___ Whatever you do, DON'T rive the skins to the longerons. Can't you read
> the instructions you idiot? But rivet the gusset and the 705 G now and you
> can always drive rivets with half bucktails in the longeron later.
>
>
> ___ Gussets? You mean there were gussets that were supposed to go on the
> plane I'm flying? Oops.
>
>
> ____ We're not going to tell you until you go buy a pneumatic squeezer you
> half-a-man,you.
>
>
> ____ OK, you got us. We're not really flying our RVs. We made it up. But
> we had to do something after our contract to fake man landing on the moon
> ran out. Sorry.
>
>
> ____ Dammit, Bob, this list isn't for questions from people who are
> building RVs. What are you thinking? Come back later when you have
> something irrelevant to ask.
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Bob
> St. Paul
>
>
> do not archive
>
>
>
Message 8
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--> RV7-List message posted by: Sargentclt@cs.com
Not an issue. I think Van has this figured out.
Tad S
RV7A painting
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: More gusset questions |
--> RV7-List message posted by: bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net
> My 2 cents is...follow the order as laid out in the construction manual.
That's my point. It's impossible to follow the order laid out in the construction
manual/plans.
1. The plans say don't rivet the side skins to the longeron.
2. The plans say rivet the gusset to the 705G/705 bulkhead.
3. The 705G interferes with the side-skins-to-longeron rivets in those 2 (and
possibly 3) holes.
It seems to me the only way to do this would be to rivet the side skins to longerons
in those locations now, THEN rivet the 705 bulkhead, 705G and gusset.
Either way, I'm going to have to ignore someting in the manual/plans. What I was
asking Van's was which one should it be? I ended up being Ken Scott's straight
man instead.
>
> But I don't know about this half bucktail thing.
Ah, then if you want to know how to make a half-bucktail, you've come to the master,
Grasshopper.
>If you centered the
> skin-to-longeron holes on the longeron, I don't see the issue with bucking
> the skin rivets. Are your skin-to-longeron holes up high, near the vertex
> of the longeron, or something?
A portion of the top of the 705G web -- I THINK -- fits inside the longeron.
This is not entirely dissimillar to those brackets on the firewall where you
put the blind rivet.
> If you'll have an issue bucking rivets due to other rivet heads. It
It' s not the rivet heads, it's the 705 G.
> Maybe if you have some photos handy I can make a more educated guess as to
> what advice you want to hear!
I'll have to take some tonight. I must be doing SOMETHING wrong because apparently
nobody else has ever run into this.
My 2 cents is...follow the order as laid out in the construction manual.
That's my point. It's impossible to follow the order laid out in the construction
manual/plans.
1. The plans say don't rivet the side skins to the longeron.
2. The plans say rivet the gusset to the 705G/705 bulkhead.
3. The 705G interferes with the side-skins-to-longeron rivets in those 2 (and possibly
3) holes.
It seems to me the only way to do this would be to rivet the side skins to longerons
in those locations now, THEN rivet the 705 bulkhead, 705G and gusset.
Either way, I'm going to have to ignore someting in the manual/plans. What I was
asking Van's was which one should it be? I ended up being Ken Scott's straight
man instead.
But I don't know about this half bucktail thing.
Ah, then if you want to know how to make a half-bucktail, you've come to the master,
Grasshopper.
If you centered the
skin-to-longeron holes on the longeron, I don't see the issue with bucking
the skin rivets. Are your skin-to-longeron holes up high, near the vertex
of the longeron, or something?
A portion of the top of the 705G web-- I THINK -- fits inside the longeron. This
is not entirely dissimillar to those brackets on the firewall where you put
the blind rivet.
If you'll have an issue bucking rivets due to other rivet heads. It
It' s not the rivet heads, it's the 705 G.
Maybe if you have some photos handy I can make a more educated guess as to
what advice you want to hear!
I'll have to take some tonight. I must be doing SOMETHING wrong because apparently
nobody else has ever run into this.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: More gusset questions |
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
> That's my point. It's impossible to follow the order laid out in the
> construction manual/plans.
>
> 1. The plans say don't rivet the side skins to the longeron.
> 2. The plans say rivet the gusset to the 705G/705 bulkhead.
> 3. The 705G interferes with the side-skins-to-longeron rivets in those 2
> (and possibly 3) holes.
>
> It seems to me the only way to do this would be to rivet the side skins to
> longerons in those locations now, THEN rivet the 705 bulkhead, 705G and
> gusset.
Ah. F-705. For some reason I thought you were talking about the gussets up
at the firewall. I must be confusing this thread with another thread you
posted very recently.
Yeah, it's almost impossible to buck those side skin rivets. Just use pop
rivets on the side skin. Or wait to rivet the gussets in, but that might
cause a cascade of other chicken-and-egg issues.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: More gusset questions |
--> RV7-List message posted by: bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net
>
> Ah. F-705. For some reason I thought you were talking about the gussets up
> at the firewall. I must be confusing this thread with another thread you
> posted very recently.
Well, actually that was the other part of the question. But I looked again last
night (OK, I admit it, I often stroll out to the garage late at night just to
...you know...be with the plane) and realized those aren't going to be a big
deal.
Thanks for the assist. That's more than I got from Bend.
Ah. F-705. For some reason I thought you were talking about the gussets up
at the firewall. I must be confusing this thread with another thread you
posted very recently.
Well, actually that was the other part of the question. But I looked again last
night (OK, I admit it, I often stroll out to the garage late at night just to
...you know...be with the plane) and realized those aren't going to be a big
deal.
Thanks for the assist. That's more than I got from Bend.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: More gusset questions |
--> RV7-List message posted by: Jamie Painter <jdpainter@jpainter.org>
I agree, Dan.
I'm working on this right now and all my bucktails are easily
accessible w/ a bucking bar. Something must be off. How about a
picture, Bob?
- Jamie, RV-7A Fuselage
do not archive
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