Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 10:15 AM - Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 12/21/13 (fjmelick@aol.com)
2. 12:27 PM - Re: Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 12/21/13 (Gerry van Dyk)
3. 05:37 PM - Re: Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 12/21/13 (Red Hamilton)
4. 08:06 PM - Re: Re: Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 12/21/13 (Gerry van Dyk)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 12/21/13 |
Gerry:
Thanks for your reply.
It just seems the LSA price tags are out of sight compared to all the other
available aircraft. I am older and had to sell off my airplanes and still
would like to fly again before life is over. All the LSA stuff is for the v
ery rich . I am from a time when the cubs and the vagabond were low cost pl
anes for the grass roots guys but today you can't buy them for much under 2
5k. I saw a tailwind project for sale at a reasonable price and remember th
e old w-8 with the 85 hp Continental and thought maybe with a climb prop an
d some mods it could be made dirty and slower. I just did not know how the
stall speed could be reduced.
Anyway thanks for the reply.
Not sure I like the buttercup's leading edge configuration. It looks compli
cated and expensive too.
Anything that is a project that fits LSA is very expensive compared to othe
r experimental.
I heard the EAA and the other alphabet groups are trying to convince the Go
vernment to start a new recreational license that could allow some of the
other certified aircraft to be used with the new license instead of the cur
rent LS pilot license. I am sure if that happens the price of a Cessna 150
will double overnight too.
At 72 years old I don't think building from scratch is possible and I was l
ooking for a project experimental to help reduce the time to finish the pro
ject.
I am just an old has been pilot but still think I can fly again but it sure
is hard to find a good inexpensive project that fits all the new regs.
Thanks again Gerry fair winds and blue sky's
Fred M
-----Original Message-----
From: Tailwind-List Digest Server <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sun, Dec 22, 2013 3:12 am
Subject: Tailwind-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 12/21/13
*
========================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
========================
Today's complete Tailwind-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the Tailwind-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=htm
l&Chapter 13-12-21&Archive=Tailwind
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt
&Chapter 13-12-21&Archive=Tailwind
========================
=======================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
========================
=======================
----------------------------------------------------------
Tailwind-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Sat 12/21/13: 3
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 09:00 AM - Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13
(fjmelick@aol.com)
2. 11:13 AM - Re: Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13 (Gerry
van
Dyk)
3. 11:45 AM - Re: Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13 (George
Turner)
________________________________ Message 1 ______________________________
_______
Time: 09:00:59 AM PST US
Subject: Tailwind-List: Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13
From: fjmelick@aol.com
Can the W-10 fit the LSA category if I use an 85 hp continental the same as
the original W-8?
Is the stall speed of the w-10 wing lower than the w-80 wing?
Thanks Fred M
-----Original Message-----
From: Tailwind-List Digest Server <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sat, Dec 21, 2013 3:10 am
Subject: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13
*
=======================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
=======================
Today's complete Tailwind-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the Tailwind-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=htm
l&Chapter 13-12-20&Archive=Tailwind
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt
&Chapter 13-12-20&Archive=Tailwind
=======================
======================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
=======================
======================
----------------------------------------------------------
Tailwind-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Fri 12/20/13: 0
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
________________________________ Message 2 ______________________________
_______
Time: 11:13:59 AM PST US
From: "Gerry van Dyk" <gerry.vandyk@shaw.ca>
Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13
Hi Fred. The question has been asked here many times. Keep in mind the
Tailwind is a serious hot rod, even with low power. That's the way Mr.
Wittman designed airplanes, and the legacy is celebrated by the this
group's
members. It's a little like asking if you can make a Shelby Cobra into
a
slow car.
Have a look at other light sport airplanes that push up to the full 1320
lb
weight limit. They're typically around 130 square feet of wing area,
the
W-10 is 100 square feet. My quick calculations show that it would have
to
be built somewhere around 950 pounds max take weight to make the maximum
stall speed. That's a big ask with the existing airplane.
You could re-work the design with a larger wing, a different airfoil,
lighter wing without plywood sheeting, (dual wing struts needed) etc.
Then
again it's already been done for you. Wittman's earlier design the
Buttercup is already LSA compliant. Earl Luce sells the plans.
http://luceair.com/replica_buttercup.html
The lines aren't quite the same as the Tailwind, but you could easily
make
the same changes to the lower longerons, top forward tubes and cowl that
Jim
Clement has made. His Buttercup looks a great deal like a Tailwind.
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/TailwindForum/conversations/messages/5
653
2
For the most part, those who have asked your question here before appear
to
have no interest in doing a Buttercup but it's by far the best way to
go.
It's highly impractical to make the Tailwind stall slow enough and keep
it's
top speed within the regs. Speed is determined by the airframe much
more
than the horsepower.
I hope this helps your deliberations.
Gerry
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
fjmelick@aol.com
Sent: December 21, 2013 10:01 AM
Subject: Tailwind-List: Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13
Can the W-10 fit the LSA category if I use an 85 hp continental the same
as
the original W-8?
Is the stall speed of the w-10 wing lower than the w-80 wing?
Thanks Fred M
-----Original Message-----
From: Tailwind-List Digest Server <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sat, Dec 21, 2013 3:10 am
Subject: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13
*
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
Today's complete Tailwind-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest
formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the Tailwind-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701
<http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html
&Chapte
r 13-12-20&Archive=Tailwind>
&View=html&Chapter 13-12-20&Archive=Tailwind
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701
<http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&
Chapter
13-12-20&Archive=Tailwind>
&View=txt&Chapter 13-12-20&Archive=Tailwind
=====================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
=====================
----------------------------------------------------------
Tailwind-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Fri 12/20/13: 0
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com
ank">www.mrrace.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Tailwind-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
________________________________ Message 3 ______________________________
_______
Time: 11:45:44 AM PST US
From: George Turner <tailwind222@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13
The stall speed is a little slower with the W 10 wing, but not even close t
o the- landing speed needed to qualify.- The Buttercup- can qualify.
- George=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Saturday, December 21, 2013 12:18 PM, Gerry
van Dy
k <gerry.vandyk@shaw.ca> wrote:=0A =0AMessage =0AHi =0AFred.- The
questi
on has been asked here many times.- Keep in mind the =0ATailwind is a ser
ious hot rod, even with low power.--That's the way =0AMr. Wittman desig
ned airplanes, and the-legacy is-celebrated by the =0Athis group's memb
ers.- It's a little like asking if you can make a Shelby =0ACobra into a
slow car. =0A- =0AHave a =0Alook at other light sport airplanes that
push
up to the full 1320 lb weight =0Alimit.- They're typically around 130 sq
uare feet of wing area, the W-10 is =0A100 square feet.- My quick calcula
tions-show that it would have to be =0Abuilt somewhere around 950 pounds
max take weight to make the maximum stall =0Aspeed.- That's a big ask wit
h the existing airplane. =0A- =0AYou =0Acould re-work the design with
a l
arger wing, a different airfoil, lighter wing =0Awithout plywood sheeting
,
(dual wing struts needed) etc.- Then again it's =0Aalready been done for
you.- Wittman's earlier design the Buttercup is =0Aalready LSA compliant.
- Earl Luce sells the plans. =0Ahttp://luceair.com/replica_buttercup.html
=0A- =0AThe =0Alines aren't quite the same as the Tailwind, but you
coul
d easily make the same =0Achanges to the lower longerons, top forward tub
es
and cowl that Jim Clement has =0Amade.- His Buttercup looks a great deal
like a =0ATailwind. =0Ahttp://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/TailwindForu
m/co
nversations/messages/56532 =0A- =0AFor =0Athe most part, those who ha
ve a
sked your question here before appear to have no =0Ainterest in doing a B
ut
tercup but it's by far the best way to go.- It's =0Ahighly impractical to
make the Tailwind stall slow enough and keep it's top =0Aspeed within th
e
regs.- Speed is determined by the airframe much more than =0Athe horsepow
er. =0A- =0AI hope =0Athis helps your deliberations. =0AGerry =0A
- =0A
=0A>-----Original Message-----=0A>From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matr
onic
s.com [mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of fjmel
ick@aol.com=0A>Sent: December 21, 2013 10:01 AM=0A>To: tailwind-list@ma
tron
ics.com=0A>Subject: Tailwind-List: Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12
/2
0/13=0A>=0A>Can the W-10 fit the LSA category if I use an 85 hp contin
enta
l the same as the original W-8? =0A>=0A>Is the stall speed of the w-10
win
g-lower than the w-80 wing? =0A>=0A>Thanks Fred M =0A>-----Original
Me
ssage-----=0A>From: Tailwind-List Digest Server =0A <tailwind-list@mat
roni
cs.com>=0A>To: Tailwind-List Digest List =0A <tailwind-list-digest@mat
roni
cs.com>=0A>Sent: Sat, Dec 21, 2013 3:10 =0A am=0A>Subject: Tailwind-
List D
igest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13=0A>=0A>=0A>* Online Versions of Today's List
Diges
t Archive Today's complete Tailwind-List Digest can also be found in either
of the =0Atwo Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Diges
t
formatted =0Ain HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlin
ke
d Indexes =0Aand Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain AS
CI
I version =0Aof the Tailwind-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic
t
ext editor =0Asuch as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http:
//
www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter
13-12-20&Archive=Tailwind Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/dig
est/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 13-12-20&Archive
Tailwind =====================
= EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive =======
=============== -----------------------------
----------------------------- Tailwind-List Digest Archive --- Total Messag
es Posted Fri 12/20/13: 0 -------------------------------------------------
--------- Today's Message Index:=0A---------------------- _blank">www.aer
oe
lectric.com=0A" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com=0A="_blank">w
ww.h
omebuilthelp.com=0A="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com=0Aank">www.mrrace.c
om
=0A_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution target="_blank">http:/
/w
ww.matronics.com/Navigator?Tailwind-List=0Atp://forums.matronics.com =0
A>hr
ef="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com=0Ahref="http://
ww
w.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com=0Ahref="http://www.homebuilt
he
lp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com=0Ahref="http://www.mypilotstore.com">www.
my
pilotstore.com=0Ahref="http://www.mrrace.com">www.mrrace.com=0Ahref
="ht
tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http
://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Tailwind-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navi
gator?Tailwind-List=0Ahref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.
ma
========
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 12/21/13 |
Can't say I disagree with any of your comments Fred. As I gather, the
drooped leading edge wouldn't be eligible for LSA, but the Buttercup
would
make the speed requirements anyway. Earl, if you're reading this
thread,
could you comment?
Here in Canada the Advanced Ultralight category is a lot more liberal
than
LSA in the US. There's no speed limits, and a much more practical
weight
limit (I think). The Recreational Pilot's permit is similar to the
Light
Sport, Day VFR only, however there's no weight limit. A Rec pilot in
Canada
can fly a C172, he just can't carry more than one passenger.
Another thing you might have a chance to look forward to is the FAA
implementing a class similar to our Owner Maintenance category. This is
where older out-of-production airplanes can be maintained by the owner
pretty much in the same way as an experimental. It might open up your
choices as well, though I gather it's only in the earliest stages of
discussion.
Best of luck and Merry Christmas.
Gerry
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
fjmelick@aol.com
Sent: December 22, 2013 11:15 AM
Subject: Tailwind-List: Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 12/21/13
Gerry:
Thanks for your reply.
It just seems the LSA price tags are out of sight compared to all the
other
available aircraft. I am older and had to sell off my airplanes and
still
would like to fly again before life is over. All the LSA stuff is for
the
very rich . I am from a time when the cubs and the vagabond were low
cost
planes for the grass roots guys but today you can't buy them for much
under
25k. I saw a tailwind project for sale at a reasonable price and
remember
the old w-8 with the 85 hp Continental and thought maybe with a climb
prop
and some mods it could be made dirty and slower. I just did not know how
the
stall speed could be reduced.
Anyway thanks for the reply.
Not sure I like the buttercup's leading edge configuration. It looks
complicated and expensive too.
Anything that is a project that fits LSA is very expensive compared to
other
experimental.
I heard the EAA and the other alphabet groups are trying to convince the
Government to start a new recreational license that could allow some of
the
other certified aircraft to be used with the new license instead of the
current LS pilot license. I am sure if that happens the price of a
Cessna
150 will double overnight too.
At 72 years old I don't think building from scratch is possible and I
was
looking for a project experimental to help reduce the time to finish the
project.
I am just an old has been pilot but still think I can fly again but it
sure
is hard to find a good inexpensive project that fits all the new regs.
Thanks again Gerry fair winds and blue sky's
Fred M
-----Original Message-----
From: Tailwind-List Digest Server <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sun, Dec 22, 2013 3:12 am
Subject: Tailwind-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 12/21/13
*
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
Today's complete Tailwind-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest
formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the Tailwind-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701
<http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html
&Chapte
r 13-12-21&Archive=Tailwind>
&View=html&Chapter 13-12-21&Archive=Tailwind
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701
<http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&
Chapter
13-12-21&Archive=Tailwind>
&View=txt&Chapter 13-12-21&Archive=Tailwind
======================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
======================
----------------------------------------------------------
Tailwind-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Sat 12/21/13: 3
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 09:00 AM - Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13
(fjmelick@aol.com)
2. 11:13 AM - Re: Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13
(Gerry
van
Dyk)
3. 11:45 AM - Re: Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13
(George
Turner)
________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
Time: 09:00:59 AM PST US
Subject: Tailwind-List: Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13
From: fjmelick@aol.com
Can the W-10 fit the LSA category if I use an 85 hp continental the same
as
the original W-8?
Is the stall speed of the w-10 wing lower than the w-80 wing?
Thanks Fred M
-----Original Message-----
From: Tailwind-List Digest Server <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sat, Dec 21, 2013 3:10 am
Subject: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13
*
=======================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
=======================
Today's complete Tailwind-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest
formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the Tailwind-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701
<http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=htm>
&View=htm
l&Chapter 13-12-20&Archive=Tailwind
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701
<http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt>
&View=txt
&Chapter 13-12-20&Archive=Tailwind
=======================
======================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
=======================
======================
----------------------------------------------------------
Tailwind-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Fri 12/20/13: 0
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
Time: 11:13:59 AM PST US
From: "Gerry van Dyk" <gerry.vandyk@shaw.ca>
Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13
Hi Fred. The question has been asked here many times. Keep in mind the
Tailwind is a serious hot rod, even with low power. That's the way Mr.
Wittman designed airplanes, and the legacy is celebrated by the this
group's
members. It's a little like asking if you can make a Shelby Cobra into
a
slow car.
Have a look at other light sport airplanes that push up to the full 1320
lb
weight limit. They're typically around 130 square feet of wing area,
the
W-10 is 100 square feet. My quick calculations show that it would have
to
be built somewhere around 950 pounds max take weight to make the maximum
stall speed. That's a big ask with the existing airplane.
You could re-work the design with a larger wing, a different airfoil,
lighter wing without plywood sheeting, (dual wing struts needed) etc.
Then
again it's already been done for you. Wittman's earlier design the
Buttercup is already LSA compliant. Earl Luce sells the plans.
http://luceair.com/replica_buttercup.html
The lines aren't quite the same as the Tailwind, but you could easily
make
the same changes to the lower longerons, top forward tubes and cowl that
Jim
Clement has made. His Buttercup looks a great deal like a Tailwind.
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/TailwindForum/conversations/messages/5
653
2
For the most part, those who have asked your question here before appear
to
have no interest in doing a Buttercup but it's by far the best way to
go.
It's highly impractical to make the Tailwind stall slow enough and keep
it's
top speed within the regs. Speed is determined by the airframe much
more
than the horsepower.
I hope this helps your deliberations.
Gerry
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com?> ] On Behalf Of
fjmelick@aol.com
Sent: December 21, 2013 10:01 AM
Subject: Tailwind-List: Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13
Can the W-10 fit the LSA category if I use an 85 hp continental the same
as
the original W-8?
Is the stall speed of the w-10 wing lower than the w-80 wing?
Thanks Fred M
-----Original Message-----
From: Tailwind-List Digest Server <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sat, Dec 21, 2013 3:10 am
Subject: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13
*
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
Today's complete Tailwind-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest
formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the Tailwind-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701
<http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701
<http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html
>
&View=html
&Chapte
r 13-12-20&Archive=Tailwind>
&View=html&Chapter 13-12-20&Archive=Tailwind
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701
<http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701
<http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&
>
&View=txt&
Chapter
13-12-20&Archive=Tailwind>
&View=txt&Chapter 13-12-20&Archive=Tailwind
=====================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
=====================
----------------------------------------------------------
Tailwind-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Fri 12/20/13: 0
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com
ank">www.mrrace.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Tailwind-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
________________________________ Message 3
_____________________________________
Time: 11:45:44 AM PST US
From: George Turner <tailwind222@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13
The stall speed is a little slower with the W 10 wing, but not even
close t
o the- landing speed needed to qualify.- The Buttercup- can qualify.
- George=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Saturday, December 21, 2013 12:18 PM,
Gerry van Dy
k <gerry.vandyk@shaw.ca> wrote:=0A =0AMessage =0AHi =0AFred.-
The questi
on has been asked here many times.- Keep in mind the =0ATailwind is a
ser
ious hot rod, even with low power.--That's the way =0AMr. Wittman
desig
ned airplanes, and the-legacy is-celebrated by the =0Athis group's
memb
ers.- It's a little like asking if you can make a Shelby =0ACobra into
a
slow car. =0A- =0AHave a =0Alook at other light sport airplanes
that push
up to the full 1320 lb weight =0Alimit.- They're typically around 130
sq
uare feet of wing area, the W-10 is =0A100 square feet.- My quick
calcula
tions-show that it would have to be =0Abuilt somewhere around 950
pounds
max take weight to make the maximum stall =0Aspeed.- That's a big ask
wit
h the existing airplane. =0A- =0AYou =0Acould re-work the design
with a l
arger wing, a different airfoil, lighter wing =0Awithout plywood
sheeting,
(dual wing struts needed) etc.- Then again it's =0Aalready been done
for
you.- Wittman's earlier design the Buttercup is =0Aalready LSA
compliant.
- Earl Luce sells the plans.
=0Ahttp://luceair.com/replica_buttercup.html
=0A- =0AThe =0Alines aren't quite the same as the Tailwind, but
you coul
d easily make the same =0Achanges to the lower longerons, top forward
tubes
and cowl that Jim Clement has =0Amade.- His Buttercup looks a great
deal
like a =0ATailwind.
=0Ahttp://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/TailwindForum/co
nversations/messages/56532 =0A- =0AFor =0Athe most part, those who
have a
sked your question here before appear to have no =0Ainterest in doing
a But
tercup but it's by far the best way to go.- It's =0Ahighly impractical
to
make the Tailwind stall slow enough and keep it's top =0Aspeed within
the
regs.- Speed is determined by the airframe much more than =0Athe
horsepow
er. =0A- =0AI hope =0Athis helps your deliberations. =0AGerry
=0A- =0A
=0A>-----Original Message-----=0A>From:
owner-tailwind-list-server@matronic
s.com [mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com?> ] On Behalf Of fjmel
ick@aol.com=0A>Sent: December 21, 2013 10:01 AM=0A>To:
tailwind-list@matron
ics.com=0A>Subject: Tailwind-List: Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs -
12/2
0/13=0A>=0A>Can the W-10 fit the LSA category if I use an 85 hp
continenta
l the same as the original W-8? =0A>=0A>Is the stall speed of the
w-10 win
g-lower than the w-80 wing? =0A>=0A>Thanks Fred M
=0A>-----Original Me
ssage-----=0A>From: Tailwind-List Digest Server =0A
<tailwind-list@matroni
cs.com>=0A>To: Tailwind-List Digest List =0A
<tailwind-list-digest@matroni
cs.com>=0A>Sent: Sat, Dec 21, 2013 3:10 =0A am=0A>Subject:
Tailwind-List D
igest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13=0A>=0A>=0A>* Online Versions of Today's
List Diges
t Archive Today's complete Tailwind-List Digest can also be found in
either
of the =0Atwo Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the
Digest
formatted =0Ain HTML for viewing with a web browser and features
Hyperlinke
d Indexes =0Aand Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain
ASCI
I version =0Aof the Tailwind-List Digest and can be viewed with a
generic t
ext editor =0Asuch as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version:
http://
www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701
<http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html
&Chapte
r> &View=html&Chapter
13-12-20&Archive=Tailwind Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/dig
est/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 13-12-20&Archive
Tailwind
=====================
= EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
=======
===============
-----------------------------
----------------------------- Tailwind-List Digest Archive --- Total
Messag
es Posted Fri 12/20/13: 0
-------------------------------------------------
--------- Today's Message Index:=0A----------------------
_blank">www.aeroe
lectric.com=0A"
target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com=0A="_blank">www.h
omebuilthelp.com=0A="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com=0Aank">www.mrrace
.com
=0A_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
target="_blank">http://w
ww.matronics.com/Navigator?Tailwind-List=0Atp://forums.matronics.com
=0A>hr
ef="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com=0Ahref="http:
//ww
w.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com=0Ahref="http://www.homebui
lthe
lp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com=0Ahref="http://www.mypilotstore.com">ww
w.my
pilotstore.com=0Ahref="http://www.mrrace.com">www.mrrace.com=0Ahref
="ht
tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="ht
tp
://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Tailwind-List">http://www.matronics.com/Na
vi
gator?Tailwind-List=0Ahref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forum
s.ma
========
_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com
ank">www.mrrace.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Tailwind-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 12/21/13 |
Fred,
How about a vintage aircraft like some Luscombe or various Pipers or T-craft
or some Ercoupes? You can find them for $15-25K; reasonable enough IMO.
Red
_____
From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
fjmelick@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2013 10:15 AM
Subject: Tailwind-List: Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 12/21/13
Gerry:
Thanks for your reply.
It just seems the LSA price tags are out of sight compared to all the other
available aircraft. I am older and had to sell off my airplanes and still
would like to fly again before life is over. All the LSA stuff is for the
very rich . I am from a time when the cubs and the vagabond were low cost
planes for the grass roots guys but today you can't buy them for much under
25k. I saw a tailwind project for sale at a reasonable price and remember
the old w-8 with the 85 hp Continental and thought maybe with a climb prop
and some mods it could be made dirty and slower. I just did not know how the
stall speed could be reduced.
Anyway thanks for the reply.
Not sure I like the buttercup's leading edge configuration. It looks
complicated and expensive too.
Anything that is a project that fits LSA is very expensive compared to other
experimental.
I heard the EAA and the other alphabet groups are trying to convince the
Government to start a new recreational license that could allow some of the
other certified aircraft to be used with the new license instead of the
current LS pilot license. I am sure if that happens the price of a Cessna
150 will double overnight too.
At 72 years old I don't think building from scratch is possible and I was
looking for a project experimental to help reduce the time to finish the
project.
I am just an old has been pilot but still think I can fly again but it sure
is hard to find a good inexpensive project that fits all the new regs.
Thanks again Gerry fair winds and blue sky's
Fred M
-----Original Message-----
From: Tailwind-List Digest Server <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sun, Dec 22, 2013 3:12 am
Subject: Tailwind-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 12/21/13
*
========================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
========================
Today's complete Tailwind-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the Tailwind-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701
<http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapte
r 13-12-21&Archive=Tailwind>
&View=html&Chapter 13-12-21&Archive=Tailwind
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701
<http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter
13-12-21&Archive=Tailwind> &View=txt&Chapter 13-12-21&Archive=Tailwind
===============================================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
===============================================
----------------------------------------------------------
Tailwind-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Sat 12/21/13: 3
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 09:00 AM - Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13
(fjmelick@aol.com)
2. 11:13 AM - Re: Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13 (Gerry
van
Dyk)
3. 11:45 AM - Re: Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13 (George
Turner)
________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
Time: 09:00:59 AM PST US
Subject: Tailwind-List: Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13
From: fjmelick@aol.com
Can the W-10 fit the LSA category if I use an 85 hp continental the same as
the original W-8?
Is the stall speed of the w-10 wing lower than the w-80 wing?
Thanks Fred M
-----Original Message-----
From: Tailwind-List Digest Server <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sat, Dec 21, 2013 3:10 am
Subject: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13
*
=======================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
=======================
Today's complete Tailwind-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the Tailwind-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701
<http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=htm>
&View=htm
l&Chapter 13-12-20&Archive=Tailwind
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701
<http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt>
&View=txt
&Chapter 13-12-20&Archive=Tailwind
=======================
======================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
=======================
======================
----------------------------------------------------------
Tailwind-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Fri 12/20/13: 0
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
Time: 11:13:59 AM PST US
From: "Gerry van Dyk" <gerry.vandyk@shaw.ca>
Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13
Hi Fred. The question has been asked here many times. Keep in mind the
Tailwind is a serious hot rod, even with low power. That's the way Mr.
Wittman designed airplanes, and the legacy is celebrated by the this
group's
members. It's a little like asking if you can make a Shelby Cobra into
a
slow car.
Have a look at other light sport airplanes that push up to the full 1320
lb
weight limit. They're typically around 130 square feet of wing area,
the
W-10 is 100 square feet. My quick calculations show that it would have
to
be built somewhere around 950 pounds max take weight to make the maximum
stall speed. That's a big ask with the existing airplane.
You could re-work the design with a larger wing, a different airfoil,
lighter wing without plywood sheeting, (dual wing struts needed) etc.
Then
again it's already been done for you. Wittman's earlier design the
Buttercup is already LSA compliant. Earl Luce sells the plans.
http://luceair.com/replica_buttercup.html
The lines aren't quite the same as the Tailwind, but you could easily
make
the same changes to the lower longerons, top forward tubes and cowl that
Jim
Clement has made. His Buttercup looks a great deal like a Tailwind.
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/TailwindForum/conversations/messages/5
653
2
For the most part, those who have asked your question here before appear
to
have no interest in doing a Buttercup but it's by far the best way to
go.
It's highly impractical to make the Tailwind stall slow enough and keep
it's
top speed within the regs. Speed is determined by the airframe much
more
than the horsepower.
I hope this helps your deliberations.
Gerry
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com?> ] On Behalf Of
fjmelick@aol.com
Sent: December 21, 2013 10:01 AM
Subject: Tailwind-List: Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13
Can the W-10 fit the LSA category if I use an 85 hp continental the same
as
the original W-8?
Is the stall speed of the w-10 wing lower than the w-80 wing?
Thanks Fred M
-----Original Message-----
From: Tailwind-List Digest Server <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sat, Dec 21, 2013 3:10 am
Subject: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13
*
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
Today's complete Tailwind-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest
formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the Tailwind-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701
<http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701
<http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html>
&View=html
&Chapte
r 13-12-20&Archive=Tailwind>
&View=html&Chapter 13-12-20&Archive=Tailwind
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701
<http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701
<http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&>
&View=txt&
Chapter
13-12-20&Archive=Tailwind>
&View=txt&Chapter 13-12-20&Archive=Tailwind
=====================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
=====================
----------------------------------------------------------
Tailwind-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Fri 12/20/13: 0
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com
ank">www.mrrace.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Tailwind-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
________________________________ Message 3
_____________________________________
Time: 11:45:44 AM PST US
From: George Turner <tailwind222@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13
The stall speed is a little slower with the W 10 wing, but not even close t
o the- landing speed needed to qualify.- The Buttercup- can qualify.
- George=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Saturday, December 21, 2013 12:18 PM, Gerry van Dy
k <gerry.vandyk@shaw.ca> wrote:=0A =0AMessage =0AHi =0AFred.- The questi
on has been asked here many times.- Keep in mind the =0ATailwind is a ser
ious hot rod, even with low power.--That's the way =0AMr. Wittman desig
ned airplanes, and the-legacy is-celebrated by the =0Athis group's memb
ers.- It's a little like asking if you can make a Shelby =0ACobra into a
slow car. =0A- =0AHave a =0Alook at other light sport airplanes that push
up to the full 1320 lb weight =0Alimit.- They're typically around 130 sq
uare feet of wing area, the W-10 is =0A100 square feet.- My quick calcula
tions-show that it would have to be =0Abuilt somewhere around 950 pounds
max take weight to make the maximum stall =0Aspeed.- That's a big ask wit
h the existing airplane. =0A- =0AYou =0Acould re-work the design with a l
arger wing, a different airfoil, lighter wing =0Awithout plywood sheeting,
(dual wing struts needed) etc.- Then again it's =0Aalready been done for
you.- Wittman's earlier design the Buttercup is =0Aalready LSA compliant.
- Earl Luce sells the plans. =0Ahttp://luceair.com/replica_buttercup.html
=0A- =0AThe =0Alines aren't quite the same as the Tailwind, but you coul
d easily make the same =0Achanges to the lower longerons, top forward tubes
and cowl that Jim Clement has =0Amade.- His Buttercup looks a great deal
like a =0ATailwind. =0Ahttp://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/TailwindForum/co
nversations/messages/56532 =0A- =0AFor =0Athe most part, those who have a
sked your question here before appear to have no =0Ainterest in doing a But
tercup but it's by far the best way to go.- It's =0Ahighly impractical to
make the Tailwind stall slow enough and keep it's top =0Aspeed within the
regs.- Speed is determined by the airframe much more than =0Athe horsepow
er. =0A- =0AI hope =0Athis helps your deliberations. =0AGerry =0A- =0A
=0A>-----Original Message-----=0A>From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronic
s.com [mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com?> ] On Behalf Of fjmel
ick@aol.com=0A>Sent: December 21, 2013 10:01 AM=0A>To: tailwind-list@matron
ics.com=0A>Subject: Tailwind-List: Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/2
0/13=0A>=0A>Can the W-10 fit the LSA category if I use an 85 hp continenta
l the same as the original W-8? =0A>=0A>Is the stall speed of the w-10 win
g-lower than the w-80 wing? =0A>=0A>Thanks Fred M =0A>-----Original Me
ssage-----=0A>From: Tailwind-List Digest Server =0A <tailwind-list@matroni
cs.com>=0A>To: Tailwind-List Digest List =0A <tailwind-list-digest@matroni
cs.com>=0A>Sent: Sat, Dec 21, 2013 3:10 =0A am=0A>Subject: Tailwind-List D
igest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13=0A>=0A>=0A>* Online Versions of Today's List Diges
t Archive Today's complete Tailwind-List Digest can also be found in either
of the =0Atwo Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest
formatted =0Ain HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinke
d Indexes =0Aand Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCI
I version =0Aof the Tailwind-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic t
ext editor =0Asuch as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http://
www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701
<http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapte
r> &View=html&Chapter
13-12-20&Archive=Tailwind Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/dig
est/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 13-12-20&Archive
Tailwind =====================
= EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive =======
=============== -----------------------------
----------------------------- Tailwind-List Digest Archive --- Total Messag
es Posted Fri 12/20/13: 0 -------------------------------------------------
--------- Today's Message Index:=0A---------------------- _blank">www.aeroe
lectric.com=0A" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com=0A="_blank">www.h
omebuilthelp.com=0A="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com=0Aank">www.mrrace.com
=0A_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution target="_blank">http://w
ww.matronics.com/Navigator?Tailwind-List=0Atp://forums.matronics.com =0A>hr
ef="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com=0Ahref="http://ww
w.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com=0Ahref="http://www.homebuilthe
lp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com=0Ahref="http://www.mypilotstore.com">www.my
pilotstore.com=0Ahref="http://www.mrrace.com">www.mrrace.com=0Ahref="ht
tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http
://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Tailwind-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navi
gator?Tailwind-List=0Ahref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.ma
========
_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com
ank">www.mrrace.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Tailwind-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 12/21/13 |
HI again Fred. I got a note from Earl this afternoon, he confirmed the
droop leading edge isn't allowed for light sport, but the Buttercup does
indeed stall at 44 mph clean.
Cheers
Gerry
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gerry van
Dyk
Sent: December 22, 2013 1:27 PM
Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 3 Msgs -
12/21/13
Can't say I disagree with any of your comments Fred. As I gather, the
drooped leading edge wouldn't be eligible for LSA, but the Buttercup
would
make the speed requirements anyway. Earl, if you're reading this
thread,
could you comment?
Here in Canada the Advanced Ultralight category is a lot more liberal
than
LSA in the US. There's no speed limits, and a much more practical
weight
limit (I think). The Recreational Pilot's permit is similar to the
Light
Sport, Day VFR only, however there's no weight limit. A Rec pilot in
Canada
can fly a C172, he just can't carry more than one passenger.
Another thing you might have a chance to look forward to is the FAA
implementing a class similar to our Owner Maintenance category. This is
where older out-of-production airplanes can be maintained by the owner
pretty much in the same way as an experimental. It might open up your
choices as well, though I gather it's only in the earliest stages of
discussion.
Best of luck and Merry Christmas.
Gerry
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
fjmelick@aol.com
Sent: December 22, 2013 11:15 AM
Subject: Tailwind-List: Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 12/21/13
Gerry:
Thanks for your reply.
It just seems the LSA price tags are out of sight compared to all the
other
available aircraft. I am older and had to sell off my airplanes and
still
would like to fly again before life is over. All the LSA stuff is for
the
very rich . I am from a time when the cubs and the vagabond were low
cost
planes for the grass roots guys but today you can't buy them for much
under
25k. I saw a tailwind project for sale at a reasonable price and
remember
the old w-8 with the 85 hp Continental and thought maybe with a climb
prop
and some mods it could be made dirty and slower. I just did not know how
the
stall speed could be reduced.
Anyway thanks for the reply.
Not sure I like the buttercup's leading edge configuration. It looks
complicated and expensive too.
Anything that is a project that fits LSA is very expensive compared to
other
experimental.
I heard the EAA and the other alphabet groups are trying to convince the
Government to start a new recreational license that could allow some of
the
other certified aircraft to be used with the new license instead of the
current LS pilot license. I am sure if that happens the price of a
Cessna
150 will double overnight too.
At 72 years old I don't think building from scratch is possible and I
was
looking for a project experimental to help reduce the time to finish the
project.
I am just an old has been pilot but still think I can fly again but it
sure
is hard to find a good inexpensive project that fits all the new regs.
Thanks again Gerry fair winds and blue sky's
Fred M
-----Original Message-----
From: Tailwind-List Digest Server <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sun, Dec 22, 2013 3:12 am
Subject: Tailwind-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 12/21/13
*
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
Today's complete Tailwind-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest
formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the Tailwind-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701
<http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html
&Chapte
r 13-12-21&Archive=Tailwind>
&View=html&Chapter 13-12-21&Archive=Tailwind
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701
<http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&
Chapter
13-12-21&Archive=Tailwind>
&View=txt&Chapter 13-12-21&Archive=Tailwind
======================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
======================
----------------------------------------------------------
Tailwind-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Sat 12/21/13: 3
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 09:00 AM - Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13
(fjmelick@aol.com)
2. 11:13 AM - Re: Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13
(Gerry
van
Dyk)
3. 11:45 AM - Re: Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13
(George
Turner)
________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
Time: 09:00:59 AM PST US
Subject: Tailwind-List: Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13
From: fjmelick@aol.com
Can the W-10 fit the LSA category if I use an 85 hp continental the same
as
the original W-8?
Is the stall speed of the w-10 wing lower than the w-80 wing?
Thanks Fred M
-----Original Message-----
From: Tailwind-List Digest Server <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sat, Dec 21, 2013 3:10 am
Subject: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13
*
=======================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
=======================
Today's complete Tailwind-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest
formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the Tailwind-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701
<http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=htm>
&View=htm
l&Chapter 13-12-20&Archive=Tailwind
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701
<http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt>
&View=txt
&Chapter 13-12-20&Archive=Tailwind
=======================
======================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
=======================
======================
----------------------------------------------------------
Tailwind-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Fri 12/20/13: 0
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
Time: 11:13:59 AM PST US
From: "Gerry van Dyk" <gerry.vandyk@shaw.ca>
Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13
Hi Fred. The question has been asked here many times. Keep in mind the
Tailwind is a serious hot rod, even with low power. That's the way Mr.
Wittman designed airplanes, and the legacy is celebrated by the this
group's
members. It's a little like asking if you can make a Shelby Cobra into
a
slow car.
Have a look at other light sport airplanes that push up to the full 1320
lb
weight limit. They're typically around 130 square feet of wing area,
the
W-10 is 100 square feet. My quick calculations show that it would have
to
be built somewhere around 950 pounds max take weight to make the maximum
stall speed. That's a big ask with the existing airplane.
You could re-work the design with a larger wing, a different airfoil,
lighter wing without plywood sheeting, (dual wing struts needed) etc.
Then
again it's already been done for you. Wittman's earlier design the
Buttercup is already LSA compliant. Earl Luce sells the plans.
http://luceair.com/replica_buttercup.html
The lines aren't quite the same as the Tailwind, but you could easily
make
the same changes to the lower longerons, top forward tubes and cowl that
Jim
Clement has made. His Buttercup looks a great deal like a Tailwind.
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/TailwindForum/conversations/messages/5
653
2
For the most part, those who have asked your question here before appear
to
have no interest in doing a Buttercup but it's by far the best way to
go.
It's highly impractical to make the Tailwind stall slow enough and keep
it's
top speed within the regs. Speed is determined by the airframe much
more
than the horsepower.
I hope this helps your deliberations.
Gerry
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com?> ] On Behalf Of
fjmelick@aol.com
Sent: December 21, 2013 10:01 AM
Subject: Tailwind-List: Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13
Can the W-10 fit the LSA category if I use an 85 hp continental the same
as
the original W-8?
Is the stall speed of the w-10 wing lower than the w-80 wing?
Thanks Fred M
-----Original Message-----
From: Tailwind-List Digest Server <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sat, Dec 21, 2013 3:10 am
Subject: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13
*
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
Today's complete Tailwind-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest
formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the Tailwind-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701
<http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701
<http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html
>
&View=html
&Chapte
r 13-12-20&Archive=Tailwind>
&View=html&Chapter 13-12-20&Archive=Tailwind
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701
<http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701
<http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&
>
&View=txt&
Chapter
13-12-20&Archive=Tailwind>
&View=txt&Chapter 13-12-20&Archive=Tailwind
=====================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
=====================
----------------------------------------------------------
Tailwind-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Fri 12/20/13: 0
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com
ank">www.mrrace.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Tailwind-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
________________________________ Message 3
_____________________________________
Time: 11:45:44 AM PST US
From: George Turner <tailwind222@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13
The stall speed is a little slower with the W 10 wing, but not even
close t
o the- landing speed needed to qualify.- The Buttercup- can qualify.
- George=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Saturday, December 21, 2013 12:18 PM,
Gerry van Dy
k <gerry.vandyk@shaw.ca> wrote:=0A =0AMessage =0AHi =0AFred.-
The questi
on has been asked here many times.- Keep in mind the =0ATailwind is a
ser
ious hot rod, even with low power.--That's the way =0AMr. Wittman
desig
ned airplanes, and the-legacy is-celebrated by the =0Athis group's
memb
ers.- It's a little like asking if you can make a Shelby =0ACobra into
a
slow car. =0A- =0AHave a =0Alook at other light sport airplanes
that push
up to the full 1320 lb weight =0Alimit.- They're typically around 130
sq
uare feet of wing area, the W-10 is =0A100 square feet.- My quick
calcula
tions-show that it would have to be =0Abuilt somewhere around 950
pounds
max take weight to make the maximum stall =0Aspeed.- That's a big ask
wit
h the existing airplane. =0A- =0AYou =0Acould re-work the design
with a l
arger wing, a different airfoil, lighter wing =0Awithout plywood
sheeting,
(dual wing struts needed) etc.- Then again it's =0Aalready been done
for
you.- Wittman's earlier design the Buttercup is =0Aalready LSA
compliant.
- Earl Luce sells the plans.
=0Ahttp://luceair.com/replica_buttercup.html
=0A- =0AThe =0Alines aren't quite the same as the Tailwind, but
you coul
d easily make the same =0Achanges to the lower longerons, top forward
tubes
and cowl that Jim Clement has =0Amade.- His Buttercup looks a great
deal
like a =0ATailwind.
=0Ahttp://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/TailwindForum/co
nversations/messages/56532 =0A- =0AFor =0Athe most part, those who
have a
sked your question here before appear to have no =0Ainterest in doing
a But
tercup but it's by far the best way to go.- It's =0Ahighly impractical
to
make the Tailwind stall slow enough and keep it's top =0Aspeed within
the
regs.- Speed is determined by the airframe much more than =0Athe
horsepow
er. =0A- =0AI hope =0Athis helps your deliberations. =0AGerry
=0A- =0A
=0A>-----Original Message-----=0A>From:
owner-tailwind-list-server@matronic
s.com [mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com?> ] On Behalf Of fjmel
ick@aol.com=0A>Sent: December 21, 2013 10:01 AM=0A>To:
tailwind-list@matron
ics.com=0A>Subject: Tailwind-List: Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs -
12/2
0/13=0A>=0A>Can the W-10 fit the LSA category if I use an 85 hp
continenta
l the same as the original W-8? =0A>=0A>Is the stall speed of the
w-10 win
g-lower than the w-80 wing? =0A>=0A>Thanks Fred M
=0A>-----Original Me
ssage-----=0A>From: Tailwind-List Digest Server =0A
<tailwind-list@matroni
cs.com>=0A>To: Tailwind-List Digest List =0A
<tailwind-list-digest@matroni
cs.com>=0A>Sent: Sat, Dec 21, 2013 3:10 =0A am=0A>Subject:
Tailwind-List D
igest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13=0A>=0A>=0A>* Online Versions of Today's
List Diges
t Archive Today's complete Tailwind-List Digest can also be found in
either
of the =0Atwo Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the
Digest
formatted =0Ain HTML for viewing with a web browser and features
Hyperlinke
d Indexes =0Aand Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain
ASCI
I version =0Aof the Tailwind-List Digest and can be viewed with a
generic t
ext editor =0Asuch as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version:
http://
www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701
<http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html
&Chapte
r> &View=html&Chapter
13-12-20&Archive=Tailwind Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/dig
est/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 13-12-20&Archive
Tailwind
=====================
= EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
=======
===============
-----------------------------
----------------------------- Tailwind-List Digest Archive --- Total
Messag
es Posted Fri 12/20/13: 0
-------------------------------------------------
--------- Today's Message Index:=0A----------------------
_blank">www.aeroe
lectric.com=0A"
target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com=0A="_blank">www.h
omebuilthelp.com=0A="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com=0Aank">www.mrrace
.com
=0A_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
target="_blank">http://w
ww.matronics.com/Navigator?Tailwind-List=0Atp://forums.matronics.com
=0A>hr
ef="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com=0Ahref="http:
//ww
w.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com=0Ahref="http://www.homebui
lthe
lp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com=0Ahref="http://www.mypilotstore.com">ww
w.my
pilotstore.com=0Ahref="http://www.mrrace.com">www.mrrace.com=0Ahref
="ht
tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="ht
tp
://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Tailwind-List">http://www.matronics.com/Na
vi
gator?Tailwind-List=0Ahref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forum
s.ma
========
_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com
ank">www.mrrace.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Tailwind-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.mypilotstore.com">www.mypilotstore.com
href="http://www.mrrace.com">www.mrrace.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Tailwind-List">http://www.matronics.c
om/
Navigator?Tailwind-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|