Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:13 AM - Re: Wow, what a difference! (Tom Quinn)
2. 05:24 AM - Re: Wow, what a difference! (flyv35b)
3. 05:24 AM - Re: Fair Asking Price for 1977 Tiger (Ronald Millman CPA)
4. 05:50 AM - Re: Fair Asking Price for 1977 Tiger (flyv35b)
5. 06:04 AM - Re: Wow, what a difference! (Tom Quinn)
6. 06:25 AM - Re: Wow, what a difference! (flyv35b)
7. 06:39 AM - Re: Wow, what a difference! (flyv35b)
8. 06:46 AM - Re: Wow, what a difference! (Bob Hodo)
9. 10:50 AM - Re: Fair Asking Price for 1977 Tiger (Gary Vogt)
10. 11:04 AM - Re: Fair Asking Price for 1977 Tiger (Gary Vogt)
11. 11:09 AM - Re: Wow, what a difference! (Gary Vogt)
12. 11:11 AM - Re: Wow, what a difference! (Gary Vogt)
13. 11:41 AM - Re: Wow, what a difference! (Tom Quinn)
14. 01:55 PM - Re: Fair Asking Price for 1977 Tiger (Anthony Dymond)
15. 03:46 PM - Re: Wow, what a difference! (Rick)
16. 04:50 PM - Re: Fair Asking Price for 1977 Tiger (Ronald Millman CPA)
17. 05:09 PM - Re: Fair Asking Price for 1977 Tiger (Ronald Millman CPA)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Wow, what a difference! |
62" pitch
Tom Quinn
249RR
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary L
Vogt
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 1:07 AM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Wow, what a difference!
What pitch did you get?
Sent from my iPad
On Jan 10, 2011, at 4:17 PM, "Tom Quinn" <quinn_tom@tqiinc.com> wrote:
>
> Just got my plane back from annual with a Sensenich prop replacing the
stock
> McCauley prop on my 1977 Tiger, now the airplane climbs like a bat out of
> hell (over 1500 fpm on -300 alt press day) and I saw 132 knots GS at 2,000
> (2,650 rpm) feet on a calm day. Can't wait to get it to altitude. Wish I
had
> done this much earlier.
>
> Tom Quinn 249RR
>
>
>
>
>
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Wow, what a difference! |
That's what Fletchair recommends most of the time. But it's not enough
pitch for a clean airframe and a strong engine, especially if you put a PF
exhaust on it.
Cliff
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Quinn" <quinn_tom@tqiinc.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 2:11 AM
Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Wow, what a difference!
>
> 62" pitch
>
> Tom Quinn
> 249RR
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary L
> Vogt
> Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 1:07 AM
> To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Wow, what a difference!
>
> <teamgrumman@yahoo.com>
>
> What pitch did you get?
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Jan 10, 2011, at 4:17 PM, "Tom Quinn" <quinn_tom@tqiinc.com> wrote:
>
>> <quinn_tom@tqiinc.com>
>>
>> Just got my plane back from annual with a Sensenich prop replacing the
> stock
>> McCauley prop on my 1977 Tiger, now the airplane climbs like a bat out of
>> hell (over 1500 fpm on -300 alt press day) and I saw 132 knots GS at
>> 2,000
>> (2,650 rpm) feet on a calm day. Can't wait to get it to altitude. Wish I
> had
>> done this much earlier.
>>
>> Tom Quinn 249RR
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Fair Asking Price for 1977 Tiger |
=EF=BBPacific Continental Engines at Whiteman did the job. I had a
tour of the shop.
It was just what you would hope for. Large, Clean, busy, and with
quite a few
engines in various stages of overhaul to examine. I have had
compliments from
owners who have had work done there or know of others who did.
Ron.
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary L Vogt<mailto:teamgrumman@yahoo.com>
To:
teamgrumman-list@matronics.com<mailto:teamgrumman-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 10:24 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Fair Asking Price for 1977 Tiger
Depends a lot on who did the overhaul. If your next door neighbor did
the OH, $20,000 less than if Lycon did it.
I'm doing an annual on a plane with <250 hrs SMOH. One cylinder has
already been replaced. Remaining cylinders are the original are the
original soft O320 cylinders with over 2500 hrs on them. Both mags are
4200 series mags. Vacuum pump was last replaced in 1999. Alternator is
all corroded. Sky-tec starter went in in 2003. Baffles are AFU. This is
the first annual since the owner bought it. He paid good money for a
plane with an OHd engine. It's worth core value.
If I had done the pre-buy, I'd have recommended paying $20,000 less
for the plane.
Sent from my iPad
On Jan 10, 2011, at 7:44 PM, "Ronald Millman CPA"
<ronmillmancpa@msn.com<mailto:ronmillmancpa@msn.com>> wrote:
Ok, but what is an offer on an original, never damaged, 1977 Tiger,
with original paint.
original upholstery, and a Zero time warranted engine with 7 hours
on it?
Ron Millman, CPA, Glendale, CA 818-241-3286.
----- Original Message -----
From: Anthony Dymond<mailto:amdymond@gmail.com>
To:
teamgrumman-list@matronics.com<mailto:teamgrumman-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 7:16 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Fair Asking Price for 1977 Tiger
I did a multiple regression on Grumman Tigers with data from the
September 2010 Trade-a-Plane and Global Plane Search. (OK, so I'm
thinking of getting one...). Anyway, I plugged in these numbers to the
regression model and got a price of 57k$. Granted that this is what
people were asking but we don't know what they were getting.
Tony
On Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 7:32 AM, FLYaDIVE
<flyadive@gmail.com<mailto:flyadive@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi Linn:
ME TOO!
Love to get high ;-)
Yes, working with "Friends" are difficult. FRUSTRATING! ! !
But that is what friends are all about.
Aviation is all about LEARNING - There are NO STUPID questions.
Only lazy people wanting a simple answer... AND... That is
STUPID!
And the question that comes up all too often is: What was the
FAA thinking?
Barry
On Sat, Jan 8, 2011 at 6:25 PM, Linn Walters
<pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net<mailto:pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>> wrote:
On 1/8/2011 5:13 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
Linn:
Don't tell me that you use drugs... I like you too much even
consider that.
Nah, I fly to get high!
Now, if the buyer and seller are face to face why would they
need a broker?
Well, that only happened a couple of times, and you're right,
they could have cut me out of the loop .... but for the most part, I
knew either the buyer or seller personally. Doing business with friends
was terribly frustrating, and one of the other reasons I quit. Having
both available face-to-face to negotiate saved months of emails and
stupid questions.
Linn
Barry
On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 5:04 PM, Linn Walters
<pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net<mailto:pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>> wrote:
When I was in the broker business, putting both buyer and
seller on the ramp looking at the same airplane ..... the seller sees a
bar of gold sitting there and the buyer ..... sees a lead bar. You
should hear the bickering back and forth!!!! Listening to the
conversation was hilarious as each person added and subtracted 'value'
to substantiate their viewpoint.
I was spending far too much time for the gains so I just
gave it up.
Linn
On 1/7/2011 4:53 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
ALL BROKERS are on DRUGS ...
And those that use them pay for their drugs.
Barry
On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 4:01 PM, Tom Quinn
<quinn_tom@tqiinc.com<mailto:quinn_tom@tqiinc.com>> wrote:
I'm thinking about selling my 1977 Tiger and am
wondering what the market will bear these days. The Aircraft history and
equipment list is as follows:
=C2=B7 Approx Airframe TT 2500 hours , 550
SMOH
=C2=B7 NDH
=C2=B7 Garmin 430 (Non WAAS)
=C2=B7 King KX 170B NAVCOM
=C2=B7 Garmin GTX-327 Transponder
=C2=B7 Garmin GMA 340 Audio Panel
=C2=B7 S-TEC 30 w/alt hold (1 year old)
=C2=B7 GPSS (1 year old)
=C2=B7 JPI-450 Fuel Flow Indicator (1 year
old)
=C2=B7 New LoPresti Boom Beam landing light
System
=C2=B7 DME
=C2=B7 New Sensenich Prop
=C2=B7 Interior Original 5 condition
=C2=B7 Exterior Original 5 condition
I had a broker look at it and he told me that he
thought the fair market value was high 30=99s low 40=99s! I
think one of us is on drugs, I hope it=99s not me! Thoughts?
Tom Quinn
249RR
st"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List<htt
p://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List>
tp://forums.matronics.com<http://forums.matronics.com/>
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/co
ntribution>
om/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGru
mman-List<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List>
s.com<http://s.com/>">http://forums.matronics.com<http://forums.matronics
.com/>
om/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matroni
cs.com/contribution>
st"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List<htt
p://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List>
tp://forums.matronics.com<http://forums.matronics.com/>
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/co
ntribution>
om/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGru
mman-List<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List>
s.com<http://s.com/>">http://forums.matronics.com<http://forums.matronics
.com/>
om/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matroni
cs.com/contribution>
st"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List<htt
p://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List>
tp://forums.matronics.com<http://forums.matronics.com/>
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/co
ntribution>
st"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List<htt
p://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List>
ttp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/co
ntribution>
title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List<http://www.ma
tronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List<http://www.ma
tronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List>">http://www.matronics.com/Navigat
or?TeamGrumman-List<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List>
href="http://forums.matronics.com<http://forums.matronics.com/>">http:/
/forums.matronics.com<http://forums.matronics.com/>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/co
ntribution>">http://www.matronics.com/c<http://www.matronics.com/c>
=========
t">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List<http://www.matroni
cs.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List>
=========
ums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
=========
http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribut
ion
=========
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List<http://www.matronics.
com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Fair Asking Price for 1977 Tiger |
That dreaded first annual by someone who now has to deal with all that
deferred maintenance! I think you've had more than your fair share of
them, Gary.
Cliff
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary L Vogt
To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 10:24 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Fair Asking Price for 1977 Tiger
Depends a lot on who did the overhaul. If your next door neighbor did
the OH, $20,000 less than if Lycon did it.
I'm doing an annual on a plane with <250 hrs SMOH. One cylinder has
already been replaced. Remaining cylinders are the original are the
original soft O320 cylinders with over 2500 hrs on them. Both mags are
4200 series mags. Vacuum pump was last replaced in 1999. Alternator is
all corroded. Sky-tec starter went in in 2003. Baffles are AFU. This is
the first annual since the owner bought it. He paid good money for a
plane with an OHd engine. It's worth core value.
If I had done the pre-buy, I'd have recommended paying $20,000 less
for the plane.
Sent from my iPad
On Jan 10, 2011, at 7:44 PM, "Ronald Millman CPA"
<ronmillmancpa@msn.com> wrote:
Ok, but what is an offer on an original, never damaged, 1977 Tiger,
with original paint.
original upholstery, and a Zero time warranted engine with 7 hours
on it?
Ron Millman, CPA, Glendale, CA 818-241-3286.
----- Original Message -----
From: Anthony Dymond
To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 7:16 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Fair Asking Price for 1977 Tiger
I did a multiple regression on Grumman Tigers with data from the
September 2010 Trade-a-Plane and Global Plane Search. (OK, so I'm
thinking of getting one...). Anyway, I plugged in these numbers to the
regression model and got a price of 57k$. Granted that this is what
people were asking but we don't know what they were getting.
Tony
On Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 7:32 AM, FLYaDIVE <flyadive@gmail.com>
wrote:
Hi Linn:
ME TOO!
Love to get high ;-)
Yes, working with "Friends" are difficult. FRUSTRATING! ! !
But that is what friends are all about.
Aviation is all about LEARNING - There are NO STUPID questions.
Only lazy people wanting a simple answer... AND... That is
STUPID!
And the question that comes up all too often is: What was the
FAA thinking?
Barry
On Sat, Jan 8, 2011 at 6:25 PM, Linn Walters
<pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net> wrote:
On 1/8/2011 5:13 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
Linn:
Don't tell me that you use drugs... I like you too much even
consider that.
Nah, I fly to get high!
Now, if the buyer and seller are face to face why would they
need a broker?
Well, that only happened a couple of times, and you're right,
they could have cut me out of the loop .... but for the most part, I
knew either the buyer or seller personally. Doing business with friends
was terribly frustrating, and one of the other reasons I quit. Having
both available face-to-face to negotiate saved months of emails and
stupid questions.
Linn
Barry
On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 5:04 PM, Linn Walters
<pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net> wrote:
When I was in the broker business, putting both buyer and
seller on the ramp looking at the same airplane ..... the seller sees a
bar of gold sitting there and the buyer ..... sees a lead bar. You
should hear the bickering back and forth!!!! Listening to the
conversation was hilarious as each person added and subtracted 'value'
to substantiate their viewpoint.
I was spending far too much time for the gains so I just
gave it up.
Linn
On 1/7/2011 4:53 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
ALL BROKERS are on DRUGS ...
And those that use them pay for their drugs.
Barry
On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 4:01 PM, Tom Quinn
<quinn_tom@tqiinc.com> wrote:
I'm thinking about selling my 1977 Tiger and am
wondering what the market will bear these days. The Aircraft history and
equipment list is as follows:
=C2=B7 Approx Airframe TT 2500 hours , 550
SMOH
=C2=B7 NDH
=C2=B7 Garmin 430 (Non WAAS)
=C2=B7 King KX 170B NAVCOM
=C2=B7 Garmin GTX-327 Transponder
=C2=B7 Garmin GMA 340 Audio Panel
=C2=B7 S-TEC 30 w/alt hold (1 year old)
=C2=B7 GPSS (1 year old)
=C2=B7 JPI-450 Fuel Flow Indicator (1 year
old)
=C2=B7 New LoPresti Boom Beam landing light
System
=C2=B7 DME
=C2=B7 New Sensenich Prop
=C2=B7 Interior Original 5 condition
=C2=B7 Exterior Original 5 condition
I had a broker look at it and he told me that he
thought the fair market value was high 30=99s low 40=99s! I
think one of us is on drugs, I hope it=99s not me! Thoughts?
Tom Quinn
249RR
st"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
om/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGru
mman-List
s.com">http://forums.matronics.com
om/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
st"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
om/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGru
mman-List
s.com">http://forums.matronics.com
om/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
st"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
st"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.m
atronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
=========
t">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
=========
ums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
=========
http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribut
ion
=========
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Wow, what a difference! |
Cliff,
I spoke with Garner before buying the prop and I didn't have plans
of buying the PF system in the near future. If I hang onto the airplane for
a while I may install the PF system and I'm guessing the prop can be
re-pitched? I'm still amazed how much of a difference the new prop makes.
Not only is the performance so much better but the engine runs much
smoother, I can see why there was an RPM limitation on the McCauley prop. My
wife is avoiding me now because I keep on telling her how great the
performance is every time I see her.
Tom Quinn
249RR
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of flyv35b
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 8:22 AM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Wow, what a difference!
That's what Fletchair recommends most of the time. But it's not enough
pitch for a clean airframe and a strong engine, especially if you put a PF
exhaust on it.
Cliff
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Quinn" <quinn_tom@tqiinc.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 2:11 AM
Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Wow, what a difference!
>
> 62" pitch
>
> Tom Quinn
> 249RR
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary L
> Vogt
> Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 1:07 AM
> To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Wow, what a difference!
>
> <teamgrumman@yahoo.com>
>
> What pitch did you get?
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Jan 10, 2011, at 4:17 PM, "Tom Quinn" <quinn_tom@tqiinc.com> wrote:
>
>> <quinn_tom@tqiinc.com>
>>
>> Just got my plane back from annual with a Sensenich prop replacing the
> stock
>> McCauley prop on my 1977 Tiger, now the airplane climbs like a bat out of
>> hell (over 1500 fpm on -300 alt press day) and I saw 132 knots GS at
>> 2,000
>> (2,650 rpm) feet on a calm day. Can't wait to get it to altitude. Wish I
> had
>> done this much earlier.
>>
>> Tom Quinn 249RR
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Wow, what a difference! |
Yes, you can repitch the prop. And you may want to do that if you
eventually install the PF exhaust as it will add about 80 rpm to your full
throttle engine rpm. If that turns out to be 2900 rpm or thereabouts then
you might want more pitch. You have to do some testing to determine where
you are though.
And yes, the McCauley does have a resonant vibration in the yellow arc area
that is greater than with the Sensenich.
Cliff
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Quinn" <quinn_tom@tqiinc.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 6:01 AM
Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Wow, what a difference!
>
> Cliff,
> I spoke with Garner before buying the prop and I didn't have plans
> of buying the PF system in the near future. If I hang onto the airplane
> for
> a while I may install the PF system and I'm guessing the prop can be
> re-pitched? I'm still amazed how much of a difference the new prop makes.
> Not only is the performance so much better but the engine runs much
> smoother, I can see why there was an RPM limitation on the McCauley prop.
> My
> wife is avoiding me now because I keep on telling her how great the
> performance is every time I see her.
>
> Tom Quinn
> 249RR
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of flyv35b
> Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 8:22 AM
> To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Wow, what a difference!
>
>
> That's what Fletchair recommends most of the time. But it's not enough
> pitch for a clean airframe and a strong engine, especially if you put a PF
> exhaust on it.
>
> Cliff
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom Quinn" <quinn_tom@tqiinc.com>
> To: <teamgrumman-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 2:11 AM
> Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Wow, what a difference!
>
>
>> <quinn_tom@tqiinc.com>
>>
>> 62" pitch
>>
>> Tom Quinn
>> 249RR
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary L
>> Vogt
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 1:07 AM
>> To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Wow, what a difference!
>>
>> <teamgrumman@yahoo.com>
>>
>> What pitch did you get?
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On Jan 10, 2011, at 4:17 PM, "Tom Quinn" <quinn_tom@tqiinc.com> wrote:
>>
>>> <quinn_tom@tqiinc.com>
>>>
>>> Just got my plane back from annual with a Sensenich prop replacing the
>> stock
>>> McCauley prop on my 1977 Tiger, now the airplane climbs like a bat out
>>> of
>>> hell (over 1500 fpm on -300 alt press day) and I saw 132 knots GS at
>>> 2,000
>>> (2,650 rpm) feet on a calm day. Can't wait to get it to altitude. Wish I
>> had
>>> done this much earlier.
>>>
>>> Tom Quinn 249RR
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Wow, what a difference! |
I might also add that full throttle rpm decreases with altitude, probably
about 100 rpm from sea level to 10,000 ft. So if you can turn 2800 rpm down
low then at 10,000 ft or higher you will max out at about 2700 rpm, which
will be optimum for maximum legal cruise speed.
Cliff
----- Original Message -----
From: "flyv35b" <flyv35b@minetfiber.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 6:19 AM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Wow, what a difference!
>
> Yes, you can repitch the prop. And you may want to do that if you
> eventually install the PF exhaust as it will add about 80 rpm to your full
> throttle engine rpm. If that turns out to be 2900 rpm or thereabouts then
> you might want more pitch. You have to do some testing to determine where
> you are though.
>
> And yes, the McCauley does have a resonant vibration in the yellow arc
> area that is greater than with the Sensenich.
>
> Cliff
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom Quinn" <quinn_tom@tqiinc.com>
> To: <teamgrumman-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 6:01 AM
> Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Wow, what a difference!
>
>
>> <quinn_tom@tqiinc.com>
>>
>> Cliff,
>> I spoke with Garner before buying the prop and I didn't have plans
>> of buying the PF system in the near future. If I hang onto the airplane
>> for
>> a while I may install the PF system and I'm guessing the prop can be
>> re-pitched? I'm still amazed how much of a difference the new prop makes.
>> Not only is the performance so much better but the engine runs much
>> smoother, I can see why there was an RPM limitation on the McCauley prop.
>> My
>> wife is avoiding me now because I keep on telling her how great the
>> performance is every time I see her.
>>
>> Tom Quinn
>> 249RR
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of flyv35b
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 8:22 AM
>> To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Wow, what a difference!
>>
>> <flyv35b@minetfiber.com>
>>
>> That's what Fletchair recommends most of the time. But it's not enough
>> pitch for a clean airframe and a strong engine, especially if you put a
>> PF
>> exhaust on it.
>>
>> Cliff
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Tom Quinn" <quinn_tom@tqiinc.com>
>> To: <teamgrumman-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 2:11 AM
>> Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Wow, what a difference!
>>
>>
>>> <quinn_tom@tqiinc.com>
>>>
>>> 62" pitch
>>>
>>> Tom Quinn
>>> 249RR
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com
>>> [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary L
>>> Vogt
>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 1:07 AM
>>> To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
>>> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Wow, what a difference!
>>>
>>> <teamgrumman@yahoo.com>
>>>
>>> What pitch did you get?
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>> On Jan 10, 2011, at 4:17 PM, "Tom Quinn" <quinn_tom@tqiinc.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> <quinn_tom@tqiinc.com>
>>>>
>>>> Just got my plane back from annual with a Sensenich prop replacing the
>>> stock
>>>> McCauley prop on my 1977 Tiger, now the airplane climbs like a bat out
>>>> of
>>>> hell (over 1500 fpm on -300 alt press day) and I saw 132 knots GS at
>>>> 2,000
>>>> (2,650 rpm) feet on a calm day. Can't wait to get it to altitude. Wish
>>>> I
>>> had
>>>> done this much earlier.
>>>>
>>>> Tom Quinn 249RR
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Wow, what a difference! |
>>>My wife is avoiding me now because I keep on telling her how great the
performance is every time I see her.<<<
I know what you mean! You can tell us, 'cause we know exactly how great that feels.
Bob Hodo
GADsden, AL
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Fair Asking Price for 1977 Tiger |
Well, son, let me tell you about PCE.=0A=0AMy mentor at KWJF was an acciden
t investigator for the FAA. He told me to stay =0Aaway from two companies:
Victor and PCE. Of course, that was in 1997 and AFTER =0AI sent an engine
to PCE to get a new bottom end after a prop strike. =0A=0AThat engine cam
e back from PCE with a complete bottom end overhaul. The =0Acylinders were
re-installed and the engine was test run. It ran great. The =0Aowner was
happy, I was happy. Spring forward 5 years (and 4 annuals). The =0Aowner
comes in and says he wants a complete engine overhaul. The engine has =0A
1875 hrs SMOH, just over 600 hrs STOH, and just under 500 hours on the bott
om =0Aend. He had been doing oil analysis since the bottom end was done.
No =0Aproblems. Easy overhaul. He wants a complete overhaul because he's
giving the =0Aplane to his son and wants to be sure the engine is good. By
now, though, I had =0Abegun using LyCon. =0A=0AThe tear down inspection a
t Lycon revealed that the rod bearings had been =0Ainstalled wrong. The be
arings were wearing into the crank. The rods were =0Atrashed. The crank w
as damaged beyond repair. The cam and lifters were =0Atrashed. It's a goo
d thing he brought the engine in for overhaul. The overhaul =0Aat LyCon wa
s almost $20,000. That included a NEW starter, NEW vacuum pump, NEW =0Amag
s, overhauled carb, overhauled alternator, and NEW Lycoming cylinders, port
ed =0Aand polished.=0A=0ANow, mind you, that was 13 years ago (8 years sinc
e the LyCon overhaul). Things =0Achange. I'm not going to comment on what
kind of work PCE does now. I don't =0Ahave a clue. For all I know, it's
a perfect overhaul/rebuild. However, I, =0Amyself, personally, would not p
ay extra for an airplane with a PCE engine in it. =0A It's my prejudice. W
hen 19 out of 20 racers in Reno and all airshow performers =0Astart display
ing PCE engines on their planes, maybe I'll change my mind. Until =0Athen
. . . =0A=0A-----------=0AThe thread going around asking what a fair price
is for a plane has been =0Ainteresting. Tom asked about his plane's sellin
g price. From the planes I see =0Aand what I see people buying and selling
, $50,000 to $55,000 is a fair price.=0A=C2=B7 Garmin 430 (Non WAAS
)=0A>>>>>>>>=C2=B7 Garmin GTX-327 Transponder=0A>>>>>>>>=C2=B7
Garmin GMA 340 Audio Panel=0A>>>>>>>>=C2=B7 S-TEC 30 w/alt hold
(1 year old)=0A>>>>>>>>=C2=B7 GPSS (1 year old)=0A These are what
make the difference. You're looking at $25-35K retail on this. =0A Figure
you get half your money back. =0A=0AGlenn, your plane is in the $50,000 r
ange, but, I forget what avionics you =0Ahave. =0A=0ASo, what would my pl
ane be worth? 1590 TTAF/E. 490 since top end overhaul. =0A Cylinders cost
me over $8000. Two 430's. 340 audio panel. 327 transponder. =0A No VOR.
No glide-slope. S-Tec 30 with altitude hold. New interior. New =0Aglas
s. All new brakes, calipers, master cylinders, hoses AND aluminum brake
=0Alines. Jaguar cowling. True Air Speed of 160 knots at 2900 rpm at 1500
MSL. =0A Will run all day at 145 knots and 2675 rpm and under 10 gph. =0A
=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Ronald Millman CPA
<ronmillmancpa@msn.com>=0ATo: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Tue,
January 11, 2011 5:19:12 AM=0ASubject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Fair Asking Pr
ice for 1977 Tiger=0A=0A=EF=BB =0APacific Continental Engines at Whitem
an did the job. I had a tour of the shop.=0AIt was just what you would ho
pe for. Large, Clean, busy, and with quite a few=0Aengines in various st
ages of overhaul to examine. I have had compliments from=0Aowners who ha
ve had work done there or know of others who did.=0ARon.=0A =0A----- Origin
al Message ----- =0AFrom: Gary L Vogt =0A>To: teamgrumman-list@matronics
.com =0A>Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 10:24 PM=0A>Subject: Re: TeamGru
mman-List: Fair Asking Price for 1977 Tiger=0A>=0A>=0A>Depends a lot on
who did the overhaul. If your next door neighbor did the OH, =0A>$20,000
less than if Lycon did it. =0A>=0A>=0A>I'm doing an annual on a plane with
<250 hrs SMOH. One cylinder has already =0A>been replaced. Remaining c
ylinders are the original are the original soft =0A>O320 cylinders with
over 2500 hrs on them. Both mags are 4200 series mags. =0A>Vacuum pump w
as last replaced in 1999. Alternator is all corroded. Sky-tec =0A>starte
r went in in 2003. Baffles are AFU. This is the first annual since the
=0A>owner bought it. He paid good money for a plane with an OHd engine. It'
s worth =0A>core value. =0A>=0A>=0A>If I had done the pre-buy, I'd have rec
ommended paying $20,000 less for the =0A>plane. =0A>=0A>Sent from my iPa
d=0A>=0A>On Jan 10, 2011, at 7:44 PM, "Ronald Millman CPA" <ronmillmancpa@m
sn.com> =0A>wrote:=0A>=0A>=0A>Ok, but what is an offer on an original, n
ever damaged, 1977 Tiger, with =0A>original paint. =0A>>original uphol
stery, and a Zero time warranted engine with 7 hours on =0Ait?=0A>>Ro
n Millman, CPA, Glendale, CA 818-241-3286.=0A>>----- Original Message ----
- =0A>>>From: Anthony Dymond =0A>>>To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com =0A>>
>Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 7:16 PM=0A>>>Subject: Re: TeamGrumma
n-List: Fair Asking Price for 1977 Tiger=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>I did a mu
ltiple regression on Grumman Tigers with data from the =0A>>>Septemb
er 2010 Trade-a-Plane and Global Plane Search. (OK, so I'm =0A>>>th
inking of getting one...). Anyway, I plugged in these numbers to th
e =0A>>>regression model and got a price of 57k$. Granted that this
is what =0A>>>people were asking but we don't know what they were getting.
=0A>>> =0A>>>Tony=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>On Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 7:32 AM, FLYaDIVE
<flyadive@gmail.com> wrote:=0A>>>=0A>>>Hi Linn: =0A>>>>=0A>>>>=0A>>>>ME TOO
!=0A>>>>=0A>>>>=0A>>>>Love to get high ;-)=0A>>>>=0A>>>>=0A>>>>Yes, working
with "Friends" are difficult. FRUSTRATING! ! ! =0A>>>>=0A>>>>=0A
>>>>But that is what friends are all about.=0A>>>>=0A>>>>=0A>>>>Aviation is
all about LEARNING - There are NO STUPID questions.=0A>>>>Only la
zy people wanting a simple answer... AND... That is STUPID!=0A>>>>
=0A>>>>=0A>>>>And the question that comes up all too often is: What was th
e FAA =0A>>>>thinking?=0A>>>>=0A>>>>=0A>>>>Barry =0A>>>>=0A>>>>=0A
>>>>=0A>>>>On Sat, Jan 8, 2011 at 6:25 PM, Linn Walters <pitts_pilot@bellso
uth.net> =0A>>wrote:=0A>>>>=0A>>>>On 1/8/2011 5:13 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote: =0A>
>>>>Linn: =0A>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>Don't tell me that you use drugs... I
like you too much even =0A>>>>>>consider that.Nah, I fly to ge
t high! =0A>>>>>>=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>Now, if the buye
r and seller are face to face why would they need a =0A>>>>>>b
roker?Well, that only happened a couple of times, and you're rig
ht, =0A>>>>>>they could have cut me out of the loop .... but for
the most part, I =0A>>>>>>knew either the buyer or seller perso
nally. Doing business with =0A>>>>>>friends was terribly frustr
ating, and one of the other reasons I =0A>>>>>>quit. Having both
available face-to-face to negotiate saved months =0A>>>>>>of emails and s
tupid questions.=0A>>>>>Linn =0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>=0A
>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>Barry=0A>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 5:04
PM, Linn Walters <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net> =0A>>>>wrote:=0A>>>>>>=0A>>>>>
>When I was in the broker business, putting both buyer and s
eller =0A>>>>>>on the ramp looking at the same airplane ....
. the seller sees a =0A>>>>>>bar of gold sitting there and t
he buyer ..... sees a lead bar. =0A>>>>>>You should hear the
bickering back and forth!!!! Listening to =0A>>>>>>the conversation
was hilarious as each person added and =0A>>>>>>subtracted 'valu
e' to substantiate their viewpoint.=0A>>>>>>>I was spending
far too much time for the gains so I just gave it =0A>>>>>>>
up.=0A>>>>>>>Linn =0A>>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>>On 1/7/2011 4:53 PM, FLYaDI
VE wrote: =0A>>>>>>>ALL BROKERS are on DRUGS ... =0A>>>>>>>>And those that
use them pay for their drugs.=0A>>>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>>>Barry=0A>>>>>
>>>=0A>>>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>>>On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 4:01 PM, Tom Quinn <quinn_t
om@tqiinc.com> wrote:=0A>>>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>>>I'm thinking about selling my 19
77 Tiger and am wondering =0A>>>>>>>>what the market wil
l bear these days. The Aircraft history and =0A>>>>>>>>e
quipment list is as follows:=0A>>>>>>>>> =0A>>>>>>>>>=C2=B7 Approx
Airframe TT 2500 hours , 550 SMOH=0A>>>>>>>>>=C2=B7 NDH=0A>>>>>>>>>
=C2=B7 Garmin 430 (Non WAAS)=0A>>>>>>>>>=C2=B7 King KX 170B
NAVCOM=0A>>>>>>>>>=C2=B7 GarminGTX-327 Transponder=0A>>>>>>>>>=C2
=B7 GarminGMA 340 Audio Panel=0A>>>>>>>>>=C2=B7 S-TEC 30 w/
alt hold (1 year old)=0A>>>>>>>>>=C2=B7 GPSS (1 year old)=0A>>>>>>>
>>=C2=B7 JPI-450 Fuel Flow Indicator (1 year old
)=0A>>>>>>>>>=C2=B7 New LoPresti Boom Beam landing light
=0ASystem=0A>>>>>>>>>=C2=B7 DME=0A>>>>>>>>>=C2=B7
New Sensenich Prop=0A>>>>>>>>>=C2=B7 Interior Original 5 condition
=0A>>>>>>>>>=C2=B7 Exterior Original 5 condition=0A>>>>>>>>> =0A>>>
>>>>>> =0A>>>>>>>>>I had a broker look at it and he told me that he thought
the =0A>>>>>>>>>fair market value was high 30=99s
low 40=99s! I think one of us =0A>>>>>>>>>is on d
rugs, I hope it=99s not me! Thoughts?=0A>>>>>>>>> =0A>>>>>>>>> =0A>>>
>>>>>>Tom Quinn=0A>>>>>>>>>249RR=0A>>>>>>>>> st" target="_blank">http://
www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List =0A>>>>>>>>>tp://forums.matron
ics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =0A>>>>>>>>>=0A>>>>>
>>>=0A>>>>>>>> =0A>>>>>>>>om/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matron
ics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List=0A>>>>>>>> s.com">http://forums.matronic
s.com =0A>>>>>>>>om/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=0A>>>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>=0A>>>>>> st" target="_blank">http://www.ma
tronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List =0A>>>>>>tp://forums.matronics.com _
blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =0A>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>
=0A>>>>>>om/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?
TeamGrumman-List=0A>>>>>> s.com">http://forums.matronics.com =0A>>>>>>om/co
ntribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =0A>>>>>>=0A>>>>=0A>>>>
st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
=0A>>>>tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribut
ion =0A>>>>=0A>>>>=0A>>>> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/
Navigator?TeamGrumman-List =0A>>>>ttp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http:/
/www.matronics.com/c =0A>>>>=0A>>>=0A>>> title=http://www.matronics.com/
Navigator?TeamGrumman-List =0A>>>href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator
?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List=0A>>
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com =0A>>>hr
ef="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c =0A
>>>=0A>> ========== t">http://www.matronics.com/Naviga
tor?TeamGrumman-List ========== =0A>>ums.matronics.com"
>http://forums.matronics.com ========== =0A>>http://www
.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution===
========0A>> =0A>>=0A title=http://www.matronics.com/Navi
gator?TeamGrumman-List =0Ahref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGr
umman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-Listhref="http
://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com=0A href="http://www.
============ =0A=0A=0A=0A
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Fair Asking Price for 1977 Tiger |
I don't mind the work, Cliff, so much as seeing the owner looking at all th
e =0Aexpenses for work that should have been done. This guy is a really ni
ce guy. =0A His first plane. I think he knows what to look for next time.
=0A=0AI work on about 35 to 40 planes a year. Well, Clytie and I work on
about 35 to =0A40 planes a year. I couldn't do it alone. Most of them are
returning =0Acustomers. I get very little turn-over. Right now I am book
ing annuals into =0AMarch and April. =0A=0APic 1: Returning customer. No
t bad maintenance by the guy the plane was taken =0Ato, just no attention t
o detail.=0ARemaining pics. How NOT to do baffles.=0A=0A=0A=0A____________
____________________=0AFrom: flyv35b <flyv35b@minetfiber.com>=0ATo: teamgru
mman-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Tue, January 11, 2011 5:48:08 AM=0ASubject:
Re: TeamGrumman-List: Fair Asking Price for 1977 Tiger=0A=0A=EF=BB =0A
That dreaded first annual by someone who now has to deal with all that def
erred =0Amaintenance! I think you've had more than your fair share of the
m, Gary.=0A =0ACliff=0A----- Original Message ----- =0A>From: Gary L Vog
t =0A>To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com =0A>Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011
10:24 PM=0A>Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Fair Asking Price for 197
7 Tiger=0A>=0A>=0A>Depends a lot on who did the overhaul. If your next door
neighbor did the OH, =0A>$20,000 less than if Lycon did it. =0A>=0A>=0A
>I'm doing an annual on a plane with <250 hrs SMOH. One cylinder has alr
eady =0A>been replaced. Remaining cylinders are the original are the or
iginal soft =0A>O320 cylinders with over 2500 hrs on them. Both mags are 42
00 series mags. =0A>Vacuum pump was last replaced in 1999. Alternator is
all corroded. Sky-tec =0A>starter went in in 2003. Baffles are AFU. Th
is is the first annual since the =0A>owner bought it. He paid good money
for a plane with an OHd engine. It's =0A>worth core value. =0A>=0A>=0A>
If I had done the pre-buy, I'd have recommended paying $20,000 less for
the =0A>plane. =0A>=0A>Sent from my iPad=0A>=0A>On Jan 10, 2011, at 7:44 PM
, "Ronald Millman CPA" <ronmillmancpa@msn.com> =0A>wrote:=0A>=0A>=0A>Ok,
but what is an offer on an original, never damaged, 1977 Tiger, with
=0A>original paint. =0A>>original upholstery, and a Zero time warranted en
gine with 7 hours on =0Ait?=0A>>Ron Millman, CPA, Glendale, CA 818-24
1-3286.=0A>>----- Original Message ----- =0A>>>From: Anthony Dymond
=0A>>>To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com =0A>>>Sent: Monday, January 10, 20
11 7:16 PM=0A>>>Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Fair Asking Pr
ice for 1977 Tiger=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>I did a multiple regression on Grumman
Tigers with data from the =0A>>>September 2010 Trade-a-Plane and Glo
bal Plane Search. (OK, so I'm =0A>>>thinking of getting one...). A
nyway, I plugged in these numbers to the =0A>>>regression model and
got a price of 57k$. Granted that this is what =0A>>>people were as
king but we don't know what they were getting.=0A>>> =0A>>>Tony=0A>>>=0A>>>
=0A>>>On Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 7:32 AM, FLYaDIVE <flyadive@gmail.com> wrote:
=0A>>>=0A>>>Hi Linn: =0A>>>>=0A>>>>=0A>>>>ME TOO!=0A>>>>=0A>>>>=0A>>>>Love
to get high ;-)=0A>>>>=0A>>>>=0A>>>>Yes, working with "Friends" are difficu
lt. FRUSTRATING! ! ! =0A>>>>=0A>>>>=0A>>>>But that is what friend
s are all about.=0A>>>>=0A>>>>=0A>>>>Aviation is all about LEARNING - There
are NO STUPID questions.=0A>>>>Only lazy people wanting a simple
answer... AND... That is STUPID!=0A>>>>=0A>>>>=0A>>>>And the quest
ion that comes up all too often is: What was the FAA =0A>>>>think
ing?=0A>>>>=0A>>>>=0A>>>>Barry =0A>>>>=0A>>>>=0A>>>>=0A>>>>On Sat, Jan 8, 2
011 at 6:25 PM, Linn Walters <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net> =0A>>wrote:=0A>>>>
=0A>>>>On 1/8/2011 5:13 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote: =0A>>>>>Linn: =0A>>>>>>=0A>>>>>
>=0A>>>>>>Don't tell me that you use drugs... I like you too much even
=0A>>>>>>consider that.Nah, I fly to get high! =0A>>>>>>=0A>>>>>
=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>Now, if the buyer and seller are face to
face why would they need a =0A>>>>>>broker?Well, that only hap
pened a couple of times, and you're right, =0A>>>>>>they could h
ave cut me out of the loop .... but for the most part, I =0A>>>>
>>knew either the buyer or seller personally. Doing business wi
th =0A>>>>>>friends was terribly frustrating, and one of the oth
er reasons I =0A>>>>>>quit. Having both available face-to-face
to negotiate saved months =0A>>>>>>of emails and stupid question
s.=0A>>>>>Linn =0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>Barry=0A>>
>>>>=0A>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 5:04 PM, Linn Walters <pitts_p
ilot@bellsouth.net> =0A>>>>wrote:=0A>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>When I was in the broker
business, putting both buyer and seller =0A>>>>>>on the ram
p looking at the same airplane ..... the seller sees a =0A>>
>>>>bar of gold sitting there and the buyer ..... sees a lea
d bar. =0A>>>>>>You should hear the bickering back and fort
h!!!! Listening to =0A>>>>>>the conversation was hilarious
as each person added and =0A>>>>>>subtracted 'value' to subs
tantiate their viewpoint.=0A>>>>>>>I was spending far too much time
for the gains so I just gave it =0A>>>>>>>up.=0A>>>>>>>Linn =0A>>>>
>>>=0A>>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>>On 1/7/2011 4:53 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote: =0A>>>>>>>ALL B
ROKERS are on DRUGS ... =0A>>>>>>>>And those that use them pay for their dr
ugs.=0A>>>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>>>Barry=0A>>>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>>>
On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 4:01 PM, Tom Quinn <quinn_tom@tqiinc.com> wrote:=0A>
>>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>>>I'm thinking about selling my 1977 Tiger and am wondering
=0A>>>>>>>>what the market will bear these days. The Ai
rcraft history and =0A>>>>>>>>equipment list is as follo
ws:=0A>>>>>>>>> =0A>>>>>>>>>=C2=B7 Approx Airframe TT 2500 hours ,
550 SMOH=0A>>>>>>>>>=C2=B7 NDH=0A>>>>>>>>>=C2=B7
Garmin 430 (Non WAAS)=0A>>>>>>>>>=C2=B7 King KX 170B NAVCO
M=0A>>>>>>>>>=C2=B7 Garmin GTX-327 Transponder=0A>>>>>>>>>=C2=B7
Garmin GMA 340 Audio Panel=0A>>>>>>>>>=C2=B7 S-TEC 30 w/alt h
old (1 year old)=0A>>>>>>>>>=C2=B7 GPSS (1 year old)=0A>>>>>>>>>=C2
=B7 JPI-450 Fuel Flow Indicator (1 year old)=0A>
>>>>>>>>=C2=B7 New LoPresti Boom Beam landing light
=0ASystem=0A>>>>>>>>>=C2=B7 DME=0A>>>>>>>>>=C2=B7 New S
ensenich Prop=0A>>>>>>>>>=C2=B7 Interior Original 5 condition=0A>>>
>>>>>>=C2=B7 Exterior Original 5 condition=0A>>>>>>>>> =0A>>>>>>>>>
=0A>>>>>>>>>I had a broker look at it and he told me that he thought
the =0A>>>>>>>>>fair market value was high 30=99s low 4
0=99s! I think one of us =0A>>>>>>>>>is on drugs,
I hope it=99s not me! Thoughts?=0A>>>>>>>>> =0A>>>>>>>>> =0A>>>>>>>>>
Tom Quinn=0A>>>>>>>>>249RR=0A>>>>>>>>> st" target="_blank">http://www.ma
tronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List =0A>>>>>>>>>tp://forums.matronics.co
m _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =0A>>>>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>>>=0A
>>>>>>>> =0A>>>>>>>>om/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.co
m/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List=0A>>>>>>>> s.com">http://forums.matronics.com
=0A>>>>>>>>om/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =0A>>>>>
>>>=0A>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>=0A>>>>>> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.
com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List =0A>>>>>>tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">h
ttp://www.matronics.com/contribution =0A>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>=0A>>>>>> =0A>>>>>
>om/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrum
man-List=0A>>>>>> s.com">http://forums.matronics.com =0A>>>>>>om/contributi
on">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =0A>>>>>>=0A>>>>=0A>>>> st" tar
get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List =0A>>>>t
p://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =0A
>>>>=0A>>>>=0A>>>> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigato
r?TeamGrumman-List =0A>>>>ttp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.mat
ronics.com/c =0A>>>>=0A>>>=0A>>> title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigato
r?TeamGrumman-List =0A>>>href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGru
mman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List=0A>>> href
="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com =0A>>>href="
http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c =0A>>>=0A
>> ========== t">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Te
amGrumman-List ========== =0A>>ums.matronics.com">http:
//forums.matronics.com ========== =0A>>http://www.matro
nics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution=====
======0A>> =0A>>=0A =0Ahref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigat
or?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-Listhre
f="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com=0A href="ht
=============== =0A=0A=0A=0A
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Wow, what a difference! |
the rpm range where the restriction was on the McCauley prop is still a range to
be cautious of with the Sensenich. The Sensenich prop is not as susceptible to
the harmonics at that rpm, but the problem is still there.
________________________________
From: Tom Quinn <quinn_tom@tqiinc.com>
Sent: Tue, January 11, 2011 6:01:05 AM
Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Wow, what a difference!
Cliff,
I spoke with Garner before buying the prop and I didn't have plans
of buying the PF system in the near future. If I hang onto the airplane for
a while I may install the PF system and I'm guessing the prop can be
re-pitched? I'm still amazed how much of a difference the new prop makes.
Not only is the performance so much better but the engine runs much
smoother, I can see why there was an RPM limitation on the McCauley prop. My
wife is avoiding me now because I keep on telling her how great the
performance is every time I see her.
Tom Quinn
249RR
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of flyv35b
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 8:22 AM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Wow, what a difference!
That's what Fletchair recommends most of the time. But it's not enough
pitch for a clean airframe and a strong engine, especially if you put a PF
exhaust on it.
Cliff
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Quinn" <quinn_tom@tqiinc.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 2:11 AM
Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Wow, what a difference!
>
> 62" pitch
>
> Tom Quinn
> 249RR
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary L
> Vogt
> Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 1:07 AM
> To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Wow, what a difference!
>
> <teamgrumman@yahoo.com>
>
> What pitch did you get?
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Jan 10, 2011, at 4:17 PM, "Tom Quinn" <quinn_tom@tqiinc.com> wrote:
>
>> <quinn_tom@tqiinc.com>
>>
>> Just got my plane back from annual with a Sensenich prop replacing the
> stock
>> McCauley prop on my 1977 Tiger, now the airplane climbs like a bat out of
>> hell (over 1500 fpm on -300 alt press day) and I saw 132 knots GS at
>> 2,000
>> (2,650 rpm) feet on a calm day. Can't wait to get it to altitude. Wish I
> had
>> done this much earlier.
>>
>> Tom Quinn 249RR
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Wow, what a difference! |
the Power Flow on my plane gave me 80 rpm at 17,000 feet. I was still turning
2675.
________________________________
From: flyv35b <flyv35b@minetfiber.com>
Sent: Tue, January 11, 2011 6:19:52 AM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Wow, what a difference!
Yes, you can repitch the prop. And you may want to do that if you
eventually install the PF exhaust as it will add about 80 rpm to your full
throttle engine rpm. If that turns out to be 2900 rpm or thereabouts then
you might want more pitch. You have to do some testing to determine where
you are though.
And yes, the McCauley does have a resonant vibration in the yellow arc area
that is greater than with the Sensenich.
Cliff
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Quinn" <quinn_tom@tqiinc.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 6:01 AM
Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Wow, what a difference!
>
> Cliff,
> I spoke with Garner before buying the prop and I didn't have plans
> of buying the PF system in the near future. If I hang onto the airplane
> for
> a while I may install the PF system and I'm guessing the prop can be
> re-pitched? I'm still amazed how much of a difference the new prop makes.
> Not only is the performance so much better but the engine runs much
> smoother, I can see why there was an RPM limitation on the McCauley prop.
> My
> wife is avoiding me now because I keep on telling her how great the
> performance is every time I see her.
>
> Tom Quinn
> 249RR
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of flyv35b
> Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 8:22 AM
> To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Wow, what a difference!
>
>
> That's what Fletchair recommends most of the time. But it's not enough
> pitch for a clean airframe and a strong engine, especially if you put a PF
> exhaust on it.
>
> Cliff
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom Quinn" <quinn_tom@tqiinc.com>
> To: <teamgrumman-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 2:11 AM
> Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Wow, what a difference!
>
>
>> <quinn_tom@tqiinc.com>
>>
>> 62" pitch
>>
>> Tom Quinn
>> 249RR
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary L
>> Vogt
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 1:07 AM
>> To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Wow, what a difference!
>>
>> <teamgrumman@yahoo.com>
>>
>> What pitch did you get?
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On Jan 10, 2011, at 4:17 PM, "Tom Quinn" <quinn_tom@tqiinc.com> wrote:
>>
>>> <quinn_tom@tqiinc.com>
>>>
>>> Just got my plane back from annual with a Sensenich prop replacing the
>> stock
>>> McCauley prop on my 1977 Tiger, now the airplane climbs like a bat out
>>> of
>>> hell (over 1500 fpm on -300 alt press day) and I saw 132 knots GS at
>>> 2,000
>>> (2,650 rpm) feet on a calm day. Can't wait to get it to altitude. Wish I
>> had
>>> done this much earlier.
>>>
>>> Tom Quinn 249RR
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Wow, what a difference! |
That highest I've had my Tiger is 10,000, I could have gone higher I guess
at about 200fpm (summer time). What was the highest altitude you were
capable of before installing the PF system?
Tom Quinn
249RR
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Vogt
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 2:09 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Wow, what a difference!
the Power Flow on my plane gave me 80 rpm at 17,000 feet. I was still
turning 2675.
_____
From: flyv35b <flyv35b@minetfiber.com>
Sent: Tue, January 11, 2011 6:19:52 AM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Wow, what a difference!
Yes, you can repitch the prop. And you may want to do that if you
eventually install the PF exhaust as it will add about 80 rpm to your full
throttle engine rpm. If that turns out to be 2900 rpm or thereabouts then
you might want more pitch. You have to do some testing to determine where
you are though.
And yes, the McCauley does have a resonant vibration in the yellow arc area
that is greater than with the Sensenich.
Cliff
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Quinn" <quinn_tom@tqiinc.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 6:01 AM
Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Wow, what a difference!
>
> Cliff,
> I spoke with Garner before buying the prop and I didn't have plans
> of buying the PF system in the near future. If I hang onto the airplane
> for
> a while I may install the PF system and I'm guessing the prop can be
> re-pitched? I'm still amazed how much of a difference the new prop makes.
> Not only is the performance so much better but the engine runs much
> smoother, I can see why there was an RPM limitation on the McCauley prop.
> My
> wife is avoiding me now because I keep on telling her how great the
> performance is every time I see her.
>
> Tom Quinn
> 249RR
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of flyv35b
> Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 8:22 AM
> To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Wow, what a difference!
>
>
> That's what Fletchair recommends most of the time. But it's not enough
> pitch for a clean airframe and a strong engine, especially if you put a PF
> exhaust on it.
>
> Cliff
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom Quinn" <quinn_tom@tqiinc.com>
> To: <teamgrumman-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 2:11 AM
> Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Wow, what a difference!
>
>
>> <quinn_tom@tqiinc.com>
>>
>> 62" pitch
>>
>> Tom Quinn
>> 249RR
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary L
>> Vogt
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 1:07 AM
>> To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Wow, what a difference!
>>
>> <teamgrumman@yahoo.com>
>>
>> What pitch did you get?
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On Jan 10, 2011, at 4:17 PM, "Tom Quinn" <quinn_tom@tqiinc.com> wrote:
>>
>>> <quinn_tom@tqiinc.com>
>>>
>>> Just got my plane back from annual with a Sensenich prop replacing the
>> stock
>>> McCauley prop on my 1977 Tiger, now the airplane climbs like a bat out
>>> of
>>> hell (over 1500 fpm on -300 alt press day) and I saw 132 knots GS at
>>> 2,000
>>> (2,650 rpm) feet on a calm day. Can't wait to get it to altitude. Wish
Message 14
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Fair Asking Price for 1977 Tiger |
I would be cautious putting a "mint" or "collector" plane into a model buil
t
using "drivers." Just for the heck of it I ran a seven hour 1977 Tiger and
got an estimated price of 66.2k$.
Tony
On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 7:44 PM, Ronald Millman CPA
<ronmillmancpa@msn.com>wrote:
> Ok, but what is an offer on an original, never damaged, 1977 Tiger, with
> original paint,
> original upholstery, and a Zero time warranted engine with 7 hours on it
?
> Ron Millman, CPA, Glendale, CA 818-241-3286.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Anthony Dymond <amdymond@gmail.com>
> *To:* teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Monday, January 10, 2011 7:16 PM
> *Subject:* Re: TeamGrumman-List: Fair Asking Price for 1977 Tiger
>
> I did a multiple regression on Grumman Tigers with data from the Septembe
r
> 2010 Trade-a-Plane and Global Plane Search. (OK, so I'm thinking of gett
ing
> one...). Anyway, I plugged in these numbers to the regression model and
got
> a price of 57k$. Granted that this is what people were asking but we don
't
> know what they were getting.
>
> Tony
>
> On Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 7:32 AM, FLYaDIVE <flyadive@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Linn:
>>
>> ME TOO!
>>
>> Love to get high ;-)
>>
>> Yes, working with "Friends" are difficult. FRUSTRATING! ! !
>>
>> But that is what friends are all about.
>>
>> Aviation is all about LEARNING - There are NO STUPID questions.
>> Only lazy people wanting a simple answer... AND... That is STUPID!
>>
>> And the question that comes up all too often is: What was the FAA
>> thinking?
>>
>> Barry
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 8, 2011 at 6:25 PM, Linn Walters <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
wrote:
>>
>>> On 1/8/2011 5:13 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
>>>
>>> Linn:
>>>
>>> Don't tell me that you use drugs... I like you too much even consider
>>> that.
>>>
>>> Nah, I fly to get high!
>>>
>>>
>>> Now, if the buyer and seller are face to face why would they need a
>>> broker?
>>>
>>> Well, that only happened a couple of times, and you're right, they coul
d
>>> have cut me out of the loop .... but for the most part, I knew either t
he
>>> buyer or seller personally. Doing business with friends was terribly
>>> frustrating, and one of the other reasons I quit. Having both availabl
e
>>> face-to-face to negotiate saved months of emails and stupid questions.
>>> Linn
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Barry
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 5:04 PM, Linn Walters <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net
>wrote:
>>>
>>>> When I was in the broker business, putting both buyer and seller on th
e
>>>> ramp looking at the same airplane ..... the seller sees a bar of gold
>>>> sitting there and the buyer ..... sees a lead bar. You should hear th
e
>>>> bickering back and forth!!!! Listening to the conversation was hilari
ous as
>>>> each person added and subtracted 'value' to substantiate their viewpoi
nt.
>>>> I was spending far too much time for the gains so I just gave it up.
>>>> Linn
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 1/7/2011 4:53 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
>>>>
>>>> ALL BROKERS are on DRUGS ...
>>>> And those that use them pay for their drugs.
>>>>
>>>> Barry
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 4:01 PM, Tom Quinn <quinn_tom@tqiinc.com>wrote
:
>>>>
>>>>> I'm thinking about selling my 1977 Tiger and am wondering what the
>>>>> market will bear these days. The Aircraft history and equipment list
is as
>>>>> follows:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> =B7 Approx Airframe TT 2500 hours , 550 SMOH
>>>>>
>>>>> =B7 NDH
>>>>>
>>>>> =B7 Garmin 430 (Non WAAS)
>>>>>
>>>>> =B7 King KX 170B NAVCOM
>>>>>
>>>>> =B7 Garmin GTX-327 Transponder
>>>>>
>>>>> =B7 Garmin GMA 340 Audio Panel
>>>>>
>>>>> =B7 S-TEC 30 w/alt hold (1 year old)
>>>>>
>>>>> =B7 GPSS (1 year old)
>>>>>
>>>>> =B7 JPI-450 Fuel Flow Indicator (1 year old)
>>>>>
>>>>> =B7 New LoPresti Boom Beam landing light System
>>>>>
>>>>> =B7 DME
>>>>>
>>>>> =B7 New Sensenich Prop
>>>>>
>>>>> =B7 Interior Original 5 condition
>>>>>
>>>>> =B7 Exterior Original 5 condition
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I had a broker look at it and he told me that he thought the fair
>>>>> market value was high 30=92s low 40=92s! I think one of us is on drug
s, I hope
>>>>> it=92s not me! Thoughts?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Tom Quinn
>>>>>
>>>>> 249RR
>>>>>
>>>>> *
>>>>>
>>>>> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-
List
>>>>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>>>>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>>> *
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> *
>>>>
>>>> om/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Team
Grumman-Lists.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>>>> om/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>> *
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *
>>>>
>>>> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-L
ist
>>>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>>>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>> *
>>>>
>>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>> om/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamG
rumman-Lists.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>>> om/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-Li
st
>>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-Lis
t
>>
>> ttp://forums.matronics.com
>>
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> *
>>
>>
> *
>
> title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List href="http:
//www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Na
vigator?TeamGrumman-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
*
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
Message 15
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Wow, what a difference! |
Tom, I flew my stock Tiger to 18,000ft with half fuel and one passenger
when i was testing a portable oxygen system. I was still climbing at
about 125 f/m but legally could not go higher into class A airspace -
The controls were mushy as hell and the plane was going pretty slow.
Rick
On Jan 11, 2011, at 11:31 AM, Tom Quinn wrote:
> That highest I=92ve had my Tiger is 10,000, I could have gone higher I
guess at about 200fpm (summer time). What was the highest altitude you
were capable of before installing the PF system?
>
> Tom Quinn
> 249RR
>
> From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary
Vogt
> Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 2:09 PM
> To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Wow, what a difference!
>
> the Power Flow on my plane gave me 80 rpm at 17,000 feet. I was still
turning 2675.
>
> From: flyv35b <flyv35b@minetfiber.com>
> To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Tue, January 11, 2011 6:19:52 AM
> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Wow, what a difference!
>
<flyv35b@minetfiber.com>
>
> Yes, you can repitch the prop. And you may want to do that if you
> eventually install the PF exhaust as it will add about 80 rpm to your
full
> throttle engine rpm. If that turns out to be 2900 rpm or thereabouts
then
> you might want more pitch. You have to do some testing to determine
where
> you are though.
>
> And yes, the McCauley does have a resonant vibration in the yellow arc
area
> that is greater than with the Sensenich.
>
> Cliff
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom Quinn" <quinn_tom@tqiinc.com>
> To: <teamgrumman-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 6:01 AM
> Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Wow, what a difference!
>
>
<quinn_tom@tqiinc.com>
> >
> > Cliff,
> > I spoke with Garner before buying the prop and I didn't have
plans
> > of buying the PF system in the near future. If I hang onto the
airplane
> > for
> > a while I may install the PF system and I'm guessing the prop can be
> > re-pitched? I'm still amazed how much of a difference the new prop
makes.
> > Not only is the performance so much better but the engine runs much
> > smoother, I can see why there was an RPM limitation on the McCauley
prop.
> > My
> > wife is avoiding me now because I keep on telling her how great the
> > performance is every time I see her.
> >
> > Tom Quinn
> > 249RR
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
flyv35b
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 8:22 AM
> > To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Wow, what a difference!
> >
<flyv35b@minetfiber.com>
> >
> > That's what Fletchair recommends most of the time. But it's not
enough
> > pitch for a clean airframe and a strong engine, especially if you
put a PF
> > exhaust on it.
> >
> > Cliff
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Tom Quinn" <quinn_tom@tqiinc.com>
> > To: <teamgrumman-list@matronics.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 2:11 AM
> > Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Wow, what a difference!
> >
> >
> >> <quinn_tom@tqiinc.com>
> >>
> >> 62" pitch
> >>
> >> Tom Quinn
> >> 249RR
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com
> >> [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Gary L
> >> Vogt
> >> Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 1:07 AM
> >> To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
> >> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Wow, what a difference!
> >>
> >> <teamgrumman@yahoo.com>
> >>
> >> What pitch did you get?
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPad
> >>
> >> On Jan 10, 2011, at 4:17 PM, "Tom Quinn" <quinn_tom@tqiinc.com>
wrote:
> >>
> >>> <quinn_tom@tqiinc.com>
> >>>
> >>> Just got my plane back from annual with a Sensenich prop replacing
the
> >> stock
> >>> McCauley prop on my 1977 Tiger, now the airplane climbs like a bat
out
> >>> of
> >>> hell (over 1500 fpm on -300 alt press day) and I saw 132 knots GS
at
> >>> 2,000
> >>> (2,650 rpm) feet on a calm day. Can't wait to get it to altitude.
Wish
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
> http://forums.matronics.com
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
>
>
Message 16
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Fair Asking Price for 1977 Tiger |
?Now all I need is an offer on the plane.
Ron.
----- Original Message -----
From: Anthony Dymond<mailto:amdymond@gmail.com>
To:
teamgrumman-list@matronics.com<mailto:teamgrumman-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 1:45 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Fair Asking Price for 1977 Tiger
I would be cautious putting a "mint" or "collector" plane into a model
built using "drivers." Just for the heck of it I ran a seven hour 1977
Tiger and got an estimated price of 66.2k$.
Tony
On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 7:44 PM, Ronald Millman CPA
<ronmillmancpa@msn.com<mailto:ronmillmancpa@msn.com>> wrote:
Ok, but what is an offer on an original, never damaged, 1977 Tiger,
with original paint,
original upholstery, and a Zero time warranted engine with 7 hours
on it?
Ron Millman, CPA, Glendale, CA 818-241-3286.
----- Original Message -----
From: Anthony Dymond<mailto:amdymond@gmail.com>
To:
teamgrumman-list@matronics.com<mailto:teamgrumman-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 7:16 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Fair Asking Price for 1977 Tiger
I did a multiple regression on Grumman Tigers with data from the
September 2010 Trade-a-Plane and Global Plane Search. (OK, so I'm
thinking of getting one...). Anyway, I plugged in these numbers to the
regression model and got a price of 57k$. Granted that this is what
people were asking but we don't know what they were getting.
Tony
On Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 7:32 AM, FLYaDIVE
<flyadive@gmail.com<mailto:flyadive@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi Linn:
ME TOO!
Love to get high ;-)
Yes, working with "Friends" are difficult. FRUSTRATING! ! !
But that is what friends are all about.
Aviation is all about LEARNING - There are NO STUPID questions.
Only lazy people wanting a simple answer... AND... That is
STUPID!
And the question that comes up all too often is: What was the
FAA thinking?
Barry
On Sat, Jan 8, 2011 at 6:25 PM, Linn Walters
<pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net<mailto:pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>> wrote:
On 1/8/2011 5:13 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
Linn:
Don't tell me that you use drugs... I like you too much even
consider that.
Nah, I fly to get high!
Now, if the buyer and seller are face to face why would they
need a broker?
Well, that only happened a couple of times, and you're right,
they could have cut me out of the loop .... but for the most part, I
knew either the buyer or seller personally. Doing business with friends
was terribly frustrating, and one of the other reasons I quit. Having
both available face-to-face to negotiate saved months of emails and
stupid questions.
Linn
Barry
On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 5:04 PM, Linn Walters
<pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net<mailto:pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>> wrote:
When I was in the broker business, putting both buyer and
seller on the ramp looking at the same airplane ..... the seller sees a
bar of gold sitting there and the buyer ..... sees a lead bar. You
should hear the bickering back and forth!!!! Listening to the
conversation was hilarious as each person added and subtracted 'value'
to substantiate their viewpoint.
I was spending far too much time for the gains so I just
gave it up.
Linn
On 1/7/2011 4:53 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
ALL BROKERS are on DRUGS ...
And those that use them pay for their drugs.
Barry
On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 4:01 PM, Tom Quinn
<quinn_tom@tqiinc.com<mailto:quinn_tom@tqiinc.com>> wrote:
I'm thinking about selling my 1977 Tiger and am
wondering what the market will bear these days. The Aircraft history and
equipment list is as follows:
=B7 Approx Airframe TT 2500 hours , 550 SMOH
=B7 NDH
=B7 Garmin 430 (Non WAAS)
=B7 King KX 170B NAVCOM
=B7 Garmin GTX-327 Transponder
=B7 Garmin GMA 340 Audio Panel
=B7 S-TEC 30 w/alt hold (1 year old)
=B7 GPSS (1 year old)
=B7 JPI-450 Fuel Flow Indicator (1 year old)
=B7 New LoPresti Boom Beam landing light
System
=B7 DME
=B7 New Sensenich Prop
=B7 Interior Original 5 condition
=B7 Exterior Original 5 condition
I had a broker look at it and he told me that he
thought the fair market value was high 30=92s low 40=92s! I think one of
us is on drugs, I hope it=92s not me! Thoughts?
Tom Quinn
249RR
st"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List<htt
p://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List>
tp://forums.matronics.com<http://forums.matronics.com/>
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/co
ntribution>
om/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGru
mman-List<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List>
s.com<http://s.com/>">http://forums.matronics.com<http://forums.matronics
.com/>
om/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matroni
cs.com/contribution>
st"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List<htt
p://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List>
tp://forums.matronics.com<http://forums.matronics.com/>
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/co
ntribution>
om/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGru
mman-List<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List>
s.com<http://s.com/>">http://forums.matronics.com<http://forums.matronics
.com/>
om/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matroni
cs.com/contribution>
st"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List<htt
p://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List>
tp://forums.matronics.com<http://forums.matronics.com/>
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/co
ntribution>
st"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List<htt
p://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List>
ttp://forums.matronics.com<http://forums.matronics.com/>
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/co
ntribution>
title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List<http://www.ma
tronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List<http://www.ma
tronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List>">http://www.matronics.com/Navigat
or?TeamGrumman-List<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List>
href="http://forums.matronics.com<http://forums.matronics.com/>">http:/
/forums.matronics.com<http://forums.matronics.com/>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/co
ntribution>">http://www.matronics.com/c<http://www.matronics.com/c>
st"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List<http://www.matronics.
com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 17
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Fair Asking Price for 1977 Tiger |
=EF=BBThanks for the info Gary.
I certainly hope that they have replaced the mechanic at PCE since then.
I also hope that they are around to honor the warranty, should any
problems occur.
After that, what else can I do but enjoy the plane, as the market is
poor
and I might as well fly it.
Ron.
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Vogt<mailto:teamgrumman@yahoo.com>
To:
teamgrumman-list@matronics.com<mailto:teamgrumman-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 10:47 AM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Fair Asking Price for 1977 Tiger
Well, son, let me tell you about PCE.
My mentor at KWJF was an accident investigator for the FAA. He told
me to stay away from two companies: Victor and PCE. Of course, that was
in 1997 and AFTER I sent an engine to PCE to get a new bottom end after
a prop strike.
That engine came back from PCE with a complete bottom end overhaul.
The cylinders were re-installed and the engine was test run. It ran
great. The owner was happy, I was happy. Spring forward 5 years (and 4
annuals). The owner comes in and says he wants a complete engine
overhaul. The engine has 1875 hrs SMOH, just over 600 hrs STOH, and
just under 500 hours on the bottom end. He had been doing oil analysis
since the bottom end was done. No problems. Easy overhaul. He wants a
complete overhaul because he's giving the plane to his son and wants to
be sure the engine is good. By now, though, I had begun using LyCon.
The tear down inspection at Lycon revealed that the rod bearings had
been installed wrong. The bearings were wearing into the crank. The
rods were trashed. The crank was damaged beyond repair. The cam and
lifters were trashed. It's a good thing he brought the engine in for
overhaul. The overhaul at LyCon was almost $20,000. That included a
NEW starter, NEW vacuum pump, NEW mags, overhauled carb, overhauled
alternator, and NEW Lycoming cylinders, ported and polished.
Now, mind you, that was 13 years ago (8 years since the LyCon
overhaul). Things change. I'm not going to comment on what kind of
work PCE does now. I don't have a clue. For all I know, it's a perfect
overhaul/rebuild. However, I, myself, personally, would not pay extra
for an airplane with a PCE engine in it. It's my prejudice. When 19
out of 20 racers in Reno and all airshow performers start displaying PCE
engines on their planes, maybe I'll change my mind. Until then . . .
-----------
The thread going around asking what a fair price is for a plane has
been interesting. Tom asked about his plane's selling price. From the
planes I see and what I see people buying and selling, $50,000 to
$55,000 is a fair price.
=C2=B7 Garmin 430 (Non WAAS)
=C2=B7 Garmin GTX-327 Transponder
=C2=B7 Garmin GMA 340 Audio Panel
=C2=B7 S-TEC 30 w/alt hold (1 year old)
=C2=B7 GPSS (1 year old)
These are what make the difference. You're looking at $25-35K
retail on this. Figure you get half your money back.
Glenn, your plane is in the $50,000 range, but, I forget what
avionics you have.
So, what would my plane be worth? 1590 TTAF/E. 490 since top end
overhaul. Cylinders cost me over $8000. Two 430's. 340 audio panel.
327 transponder. No VOR. No glide-slope. S-Tec 30 with altitude hold.
New interior. New glass. All new brakes, calipers, master cylinders,
hoses AND aluminum brake lines. Jaguar cowling. True Air Speed of 160
knots at 2900 rpm at 1500 MSL. Will run all day at 145 knots and 2675
rpm and under 10 gph.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: Ronald Millman CPA <ronmillmancpa@msn.com>
To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tue, January 11, 2011 5:19:12 AM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Fair Asking Price for 1977 Tiger
=EF=BB
Pacific Continental Engines at Whiteman did the job. I had a tour of
the shop.
It was just what you would hope for. Large, Clean, busy, and with
quite a few
engines in various stages of overhaul to examine. I have had
compliments from
owners who have had work done there or know of others who did.
Ron.
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary L Vogt<mailto:teamgrumman@yahoo.com>
To:
teamgrumman-list@matronics.com<mailto:teamgrumman-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 10:24 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Fair Asking Price for 1977 Tiger
Depends a lot on who did the overhaul. If your next door neighbor
did the OH, $20,000 less than if Lycon did it.
I'm doing an annual on a plane with <250 hrs SMOH. One cylinder has
already been replaced. Remaining cylinders are the original are the
original soft O320 cylinders with over 2500 hrs on them. Both mags are
4200 series mags. Vacuum pump was last replaced in 1999. Alternator is
all corroded. Sky-tec starter went in in 2003. Baffles are AFU. This is
the first annual since the owner bought it. He paid good money for a
plane with an OHd engine. It's worth core value.
If I had done the pre-buy, I'd have recommended paying $20,000 less
for the plane.
Sent from my iPad
On Jan 10, 2011, at 7:44 PM, "Ronald Millman CPA"
<ronmillmancpa@msn.com<mailto:ronmillmancpa@msn.com>> wrote:
Ok, but what is an offer on an original, never damaged, 1977
Tiger, with original paint.
original upholstery, and a Zero time warranted engine with 7
hours on it?
Ron Millman, CPA, Glendale, CA 818-241-3286.
----- Original Message -----
From: Anthony Dymond<mailto:amdymond@gmail.com>
To:
teamgrumman-list@matronics.com<mailto:teamgrumman-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 7:16 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Fair Asking Price for 1977 Tiger
I did a multiple regression on Grumman Tigers with data from the
September 2010 Trade-a-Plane and Global Plane Search. (OK, so I'm
thinking of getting one...). Anyway, I plugged in these numbers to the
regression model and got a price of 57k$. Granted that this is what
people were asking but we don't know what they were getting.
Tony
On Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 7:32 AM, FLYaDIVE
<flyadive@gmail.com<mailto:flyadive@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi Linn:
ME TOO!
Love to get high ;-)
Yes, working with "Friends" are difficult. FRUSTRATING! ! !
But that is what friends are all about.
Aviation is all about LEARNING - There are NO STUPID
questions.
Only lazy people wanting a simple answer... AND... That is
STUPID!
And the question that comes up all too often is: What was the
FAA thinking?
Barry
On Sat, Jan 8, 2011 at 6:25 PM, Linn Walters
<pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net<mailto:pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>> wrote:
On 1/8/2011 5:13 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
Linn:
Don't tell me that you use drugs... I like you too much
even consider that.
Nah, I fly to get high!
Now, if the buyer and seller are face to face why would
they need a broker?
Well, that only happened a couple of times, and you're
right, they could have cut me out of the loop .... but for the most
part, I knew either the buyer or seller personally. Doing business with
friends was terribly frustrating, and one of the other reasons I quit.
Having both available face-to-face to negotiate saved months of emails
and stupid questions.
Linn
Barry
On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 5:04 PM, Linn Walters
<pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net<mailto:pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>> wrote:
When I was in the broker business, putting both buyer
and seller on the ramp looking at the same airplane ..... the seller
sees a bar of gold sitting there and the buyer ..... sees a lead bar.
You should hear the bickering back and forth!!!! Listening to the
conversation was hilarious as each person added and subtracted 'value'
to substantiate their viewpoint.
I was spending far too much time for the gains so I just
gave it up.
Linn
On 1/7/2011 4:53 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
ALL BROKERS are on DRUGS ...
And those that use them pay for their drugs.
Barry
On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 4:01 PM, Tom Quinn
<quinn_tom@tqiinc.com<mailto:quinn_tom@tqiinc.com>> wrote:
I'm thinking about selling my 1977 Tiger and am
wondering what the market will bear these days. The Aircraft history and
equipment list is as follows:
=C2=B7 Approx Airframe TT 2500 hours , 550
SMOH
=C2=B7 NDH
=C2=B7 Garmin 430 (Non WAAS)
=C2=B7 King KX 170B NAVCOM
=C2=B7 Garmin GTX-327 Transponder
=C2=B7 Garmin GMA 340 Audio Panel
=C2=B7 S-TEC 30 w/alt hold (1 year old)
=C2=B7 GPSS (1 year old)
=C2=B7 JPI-450 Fuel Flow Indicator (1 year
old)
=C2=B7 New LoPresti Boom Beam landing light
System
=C2=B7 DME
=C2=B7 New Sensenich Prop
=C2=B7 Interior Original 5 condition
=C2=B7 Exterior Original 5 condition
I had a broker look at it and he told me that he
thought the fair market value was high 30=99s low 40=99s! I
think one of us is on drugs, I hope it=99s not me! Thoughts?
Tom Quinn
249RR
st"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List<htt
p://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List>
tp://forums.matronics.com<http://forums.matronics.com/>
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/co
ntribution>
om/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGru
mman-List<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List>
s.com<http://s.com/>">http://forums.matronics.com<http://forums.matronics
.com/>
om/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matroni
cs.com/contribution>
st"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List<htt
p://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List>
tp://forums.matronics.com<http://forums.matronics.com/>
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/co
ntribution>
om/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGru
mman-List<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List>
s.com<http://s.com/>">http://forums.matronics.com<http://forums.matronics
.com/>
om/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matroni
cs.com/contribution>
st"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List<htt
p://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List>
tp://forums.matronics.com<http://forums.matronics.com/>
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/co
ntribution>
st"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List<htt
p://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List>
ttp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/c
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
title=<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?TeamGrumman-List<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-
List>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List<http://www.ma
tronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List>">http://www.matronics.com/Navigat
or?TeamGrumman-List<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List>
href="http://forums.matronics.com<http://forums.matronics.com/>">http:/
/forums.matronics.com<http://forums.matronics.com/>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/co
ntribution>">http://www.matronics.com/c<http://www.matronics.com/c>
==========
t">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List<http://www.matroni
cs.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List> ==========
ums.matronics.com<http://ums.matronics.com/>">http://forums.matronics.com
<http://forums.matronics.com/> ==========
http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribut
ion<http://www.matronics.com/contribution%22%3Ehttp://www.matronics.com/c
ontribution>==========
title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List<http://www.ma
tronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.m
atronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.co
m">http://forums.matronics.com<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGru
mman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-Listhref="htt
p://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution%22%3Ehttp://www.matronics.com/c>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List<http://www.matronics.
com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|