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1. 11:25 AM - Re: XDP4000X-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 11/19/03 (Jon Gosling)
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| Subject: | Re: XDP4000X-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 11/19/03 |
--> XDP4000X-List message posted by: "Jon Gosling" <jgosling67@hotmail.com>
A JL 450/4 would be my choice for running highs and mids. Not a fan of
McIntosh stuff and yes I have had experience with them. Have no experience
with Zapco except that many many people swear bu them. I personally feel
that 450/4 Sounds better than any of the offerings available as of late from
Directed(a/d/s/, PPI, Orion).
>From: XDP4000X-List Digest Server <xdp4000x-list-digest@matronics.com>
>Reply-To: xdp4000x-list@matronics.com
>To: XDP4000X-List Digest List <xdp4000x-list-digest@matronics.com>
>Subject: XDP4000X-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 11/19/03
>Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 23:58:26 -0800
>
>*
>
> ==================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> ==================================================
>
>Today's complete XDP4000X-List Digest can be also be found in either
>of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest
>formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked
>Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII
>version of the XDP4000X-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic
>text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
>HTML Version:
>
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>http://www.matronics.com/digest/xdp4000x-list/Digest.XDP4000X-List.2003-11-19.html
>
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>
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>
>
> ================================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ================================================
>
>
> XDP4000X-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Wed 11/19/03: 11
>
>
>Today's Message Index:
>----------------------
>
> 1. 03:57 AM - Re: High end amplifiers? (Brody Z)
> 2. 04:06 AM - Re: High end amplifiers? (Hyo68@aol.com)
> 3. 05:42 AM - Re: High end amplifiers? (. .)
> 4. 05:47 AM - Re: High end amplifiers? (JSujo@aol.com)
> 5. 06:18 AM - Re: High end amplifiers? (NOTGSXR@aol.com)
> 6. 06:58 AM - Re: High end amplifiers? (Bobby Braun)
> 7. 08:33 AM - Re: High end amplifiers? (Scott Walters)
> 8. 08:35 AM - Re: High end amplifiers? (Scott Walters)
> 9. 09:49 AM - Re: High end amplifiers? (JSujo@aol.com)
> 10. 03:48 PM - Re: High end amplifiers? (Hyo68@aol.com)
> 11. 06:30 PM - Re: High end amplifiers? (Sqxpert@aol.com)
>
>
>________________________________ Message 1
>_____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 03:57:32 AM PST US
>From: "Brody Z" <dremgragen@hotmail.com>
>Subject: Re: XDP4000X-List: High end amplifiers?
>
>--> XDP4000X-List message posted by: "Brody Z" <dremgragen@hotmail.com>
>
>
>LOL! Man, so many people would flame you for hearing you say that. Zapco
>is, among
>the best. I use 'em and love 'em.
>
>So what did you base your opinion on? Looks?
>
>Listen with your ears man, not with your eyes. If you saw the insides and
>compared
>them with something else, then I can see using your eyes. Otherwise, you're
>being as ignorant as it gets.
>
>
>-Brody Z.
>
>
>----Original Message Follows----
>From: "Bobby Braun" <BOBBYBRAUN@COMCAST.NET>
>Subject: XDP4000X-List: High end amplifiers?
>
>-- XDP4000X-List message posted by: "Bobby Braun" <BOBBYBRAUN@COMCAST.NET>
>
>On numerous occasions I've heard of people on this forum that state that
>Zapco amps are some of the highest quality amps made. I've just been
>briefly looking on ebay at what is offered from Zapco, and I can't honestly
>say that I understand where this quality is coming from. Most of the amps
>listed sound like something you'd find at a local Radio Shack. I don't know
>all too much about the different brand names and differing quality of
>amplifiers on the market but would anyone care to take this any further?
>Any
>amp recommendations?
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "XDP4000X-List Digest Server" <XDP4000X-LIST-DIGEST@MATRONICS.COM>
>Subject: XDP4000X-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 11/17/03
>
>
> *
>
> ==================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> ==================================================
>
> Today's complete XDP4000X-List Digest can be also be found in either
> of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest
> formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked
> Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII
> version of the XDP4000X-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic
> text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
>
>http://www.matronics.com/digest/xdp4000x-list/Digest.XDP4000X-List.2003-11-17.html
>
> Text Version:
>
>
>http://www.matronics.com/digest/xdp4000x-list/Digest.XDP4000X-List.2003-11-17.txt
>
>
> ================================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ================================================
>
>
> XDP4000X-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Mon 11/17/03: 0
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
>
> <a href="http://g.msn.com/8HMBENUS/2749??PS=">From the hottest toys to
>tips on keeping fit this winter, youll find a range of helpful holiday info
>here.
>
>________________________________ Message 2
>_____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 04:06:33 AM PST US
>From: Hyo68@aol.com
>Subject: Re: XDP4000X-List: High end amplifiers?
>
>--> XDP4000X-List message posted by: Hyo68@aol.com
>
>I'm gonna have to disagree...Zapco amps are excellent and worth the money -
>that is if you have the money to spend. Overall, yes they are expensive,
>but
>they are in the league of the Audison, BRAX, McIntosh, etc....where the
>philosophy is not about how much power you can get, but about how much
>headroom
>and
>efficient clean audible power you get. I can say this because I've heard
>them
>and used them. They sounded much cleaner than my former '98 PPI PC's with
>less
>
>power. The symbilink, if you take advantage of it, is the real deal and is
>probably a major reason why you spend that extra money. Think of the price
>for
>the
>zapco amps and compare them to the price of any other amp plus the
>interconnects and the equipment to get a balanced signal. I bet you the
>price will
>look
>much more comparable and you won't have to get all that power to acheive
>that
>same sound. If you think they are some Radio Shack stuff...you are sadly
>mistaken and if I was mean I would recommend you go for a Pyle, but I'm not
>messed
>
>up like that. Check them out at a store and in a car then make your
>assessment.
>
>Amps I've listened to and used : Arc Audio (comparable to Zapco's and a bit
>cheaper I use these now), Audison (excellent amps, could not tell a
>difference
>
>compared to Zapco, extremely well built), PPI Powerclass (not bad, but they
>overheat quickly and I could tell they were distorting the longer the road
>trip
>
>- probably because my alt couldn't take that and all my other electronics),
>McIntosh (not a lot of power, but they are designed well with a lot of
>headroom), Alpine V12 last models (same level as powerclass, they aren't
>bad),
>JL
>(probably the best deal out there, best layout definitely). If you are
>using the
>
>xdp and c90, don't skimp out on the amps, you've gone this far so pick a
>good
>amp. The above are my recommendations, if money is a problem I would go for
>JL
>
>Audio, last generation V12's, Powerclass '98 (after that year the heatsink
>is
>slightly different probably to cut costs making the amp heat excessively
>more
>compared to that of the '98 version), and Arc Audio (they are little bit
>more
>expensive and harder to find on ebay though). If you have money to spend,
>yes,
>
>check out the Zapcos if you want the symbilink, BRAX comes with lifetime
>warranty, Audison just looks awesome, and McIntosh is McIntosh.
>
>www.zapco.com
>http://www.audiotec-fischer.com/ - BRAX
>www.audison.com
>well, you get the idea...
>
>
>________________________________ Message 3
>_____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 05:42:56 AM PST US
>From: ". ." <mpiccin2@hotmail.com>
>Subject: Re: XDP4000X-List: High end amplifiers?
>
>--> XDP4000X-List message posted by: ". ." <mpiccin2@hotmail.com>
>
>Actaully I had to read this twice casue I was trying to figure out how you
>could say that and not state that you have heard these amps before. Your
>make judgements about amps from ebay listings? Thats how you do
>research...how did you end up with a C90 or 4000x? BTW ebay sells old Zapc
>stuff and ususally newer equipment doesn't come up. Try going to the Zapco
>website (www.zapco.com) and looking at the competition amps. Phoenix Gold,
>PPi, orion are some other good names.
>
>Mike
>
>
>----Original Message Follows----
>From: "Bobby Braun" <BOBBYBRAUN@COMCAST.NET>
>Subject: XDP4000X-List: High end amplifiers?
>
>-- XDP4000X-List message posted by: "Bobby Braun" <BOBBYBRAUN@COMCAST.NET>
>
>On numerous occasions I've heard of people on this forum that state that
>Zapco amps are some of the highest quality amps made. I've just been
>briefly looking on ebay at what is offered from Zapco, and I can't honestly
>say that I understand where this quality is coming from. Most of the amps
>listed sound like something you'd find at a local Radio Shack. I don't know
>all too much about the different brand names and differing quality of
>amplifiers on the market but would anyone care to take this any further?
>Any
>amp recommendations?
>
>
>________________________________ Message 4
>_____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 05:47:20 AM PST US
>From: JSujo@aol.com
>Subject: Re: XDP4000X-List: High end amplifiers?
>
>--> XDP4000X-List message posted by: JSujo@aol.com
>
>I never owned Zapco, but the consensus is that they are great for SQ and
>are
>quite reliable....I have had 2 McIntosh amps, which I loved,,an MC431
>(4x100)
>and a MC427 (2x100),,,I sold them and bought very cheaply 2 ADCOM amps,,,,a
>lot less power, but nothing but clean audiophile quality sound....they have
>no
>
>bass boost or xovers,,,all amp. excellent quality.
>
>Brax, Helix, Audison, Tru (nicest looking), Zapco, Mcintosh ( i bought mine
>used), maybe even the tube hybrids from Tube Blue Drivers (seem to be
>loved)....also Arc Audio does goof stuff...or you can pay 2500.00 for a
>pure tube
>amp
>by Milbert...(David Berning's design)
>
>jack
>
>
>________________________________ Message 5
>_____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 06:18:53 AM PST US
>From: NOTGSXR@aol.com
>Subject: Re: XDP4000X-List: High end amplifiers?
>
>--> XDP4000X-List message posted by: NOTGSXR@aol.com
>
>How about any of the Older A/D/S stuff such as PQ 20's, PQ 10's, and PH
>15's??? I still think these are some of the best out there..... and a
>great combo
>
>for the XDP4k... :)
>
>
>________________________________ Message 6
>_____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 06:58:00 AM PST US
>From: "Bobby Braun" <bobbybraun@comcast.net>
>Subject: Re: XDP4000X-List: High end amplifiers?
>
>--> XDP4000X-List message posted by: "Bobby Braun" <bobbybraun@comcast.net>
>
>Ok, enough with the punches. I based my opinion solely on written specs,
>power ratings, and looks. The amps listed on ebay were all going for
>relatively cheap so maybe they were lower end, but in that case Zapco must
>have some very low end equipment. I heard one mention of the increase in
>headroom, but when an amp's specs state a s/n of 80 db, that makes me think
>of turning the radio up to a relatively low volume and hearing background
>hiss, decreasing the headroom to that comparable to a cassette, and
>distortion ratings at .2%, quite high compared to the average amps out
>there, and not seeing power ratings go much over 150 rms at nominal inputs,
>it just made me wonder. I didn't mean to start anything nasty here but at
>least you guys started talking, it's been quite some time since anyone's
>put
>up any comments online here. My opinion clearly stands where as looking at
>the info that I glanced at, (being very minimal since I've yet to check out
>Zapco's website). Based on what I saw there, I would look elsewhere in my
>search for an amplifier. Maybe I was wrong, but really we're all here for
>the same reason, we all have higher standards, and we all enjoy clear
>music.
>Maybe all of this emotion over a brand name will get me to take a second
>look, but lets all be open about what's really the real deal out there. In
>my opinion, I would think that this symbilink system has one major flaw,
>that being converting the signal from RCA to it's own balanced format. To
>me that would seem as senseless as using the C-90's RCA's to output to the
>4000x having to convert back to digital from analog again. Just isn't the
>cleanest way to go. Personally I use older 92-95 model Phoenix Gold amps
>in
>my system, and after growing accustomed to their flaws have become used to
>their sound. But I was just curious if there was something more to it than
>just high power or brand recognition.
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: ". ." <mpiccin2@hotmail.com>
>Subject: Re: XDP4000X-List: High end amplifiers?
>
>
> > --> XDP4000X-List message posted by: ". ." <mpiccin2@hotmail.com>
> >
> > Actaully I had to read this twice casue I was trying to figure out how
>you
> > could say that and not state that you have heard these amps before.
>Your
> > make judgements about amps from ebay listings? Thats how you do
> > research...how did you end up with a C90 or 4000x? BTW ebay sells old
>Zapc
> > stuff and ususally newer equipment doesn't come up. Try going to the
>Zapco
> > website (www.zapco.com) and looking at the competition amps. Phoenix
>Gold,
> > PPi, orion are some other good names.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> > ----Original Message Follows----
> > From: "Bobby Braun" <BOBBYBRAUN@COMCAST.NET>
> > To: <XDP4000X-LIST@MATRONICS.COM>
> > Subject: XDP4000X-List: High end amplifiers?
> > Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 22:13:34 -0600
> >
> > -- XDP4000X-List message posted by: "Bobby Braun"
><BOBBYBRAUN@COMCAST.NET>
> >
> > On numerous occasions I've heard of people on this forum that state that
> > Zapco amps are some of the highest quality amps made. I've just been
> > briefly looking on ebay at what is offered from Zapco, and I can't
>honestly
> > say that I understand where this quality is coming from. Most of the
>amps
> > listed sound like something you'd find at a local Radio Shack. I don't
>know
> > all too much about the different brand names and differing quality of
> > amplifiers on the market but would anyone care to take this any further?
>Any
> > amp recommendations?
> >
> >
>
>
>________________________________ Message 7
>_____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 08:33:45 AM PST US
>From: Scott Walters <scott@packetpushers.com>
>Subject: Re: XDP4000X-List: High end amplifiers?
>
>--> XDP4000X-List message posted by: Scott Walters
><scott@packetpushers.com>
>
>
>ahhhh, glad to see the chat about amps here. Cause i am looking to
>upgrade ;)
>
> > they are in the league of the Audison, BRAX, McIntosh, etc....where the
>
>i def agree that in this league of amps 'better' is EXTREMELY subjective.
>if you're not picking the amp based on how it is going to sound in your
>car and your system you are a fool.
>
>snipping review
> > amp. The above are my recommendations, if money is a problem I would go
>for JL
> > Audio, last generation V12's,
>
>I am currently using ADS PQ10 bridged for my tweet/mid (dyn 340 with x360a
>passive xover) PQ20 bridged for the dyn 6's. i prefer the passive xover
>2way upfront vs all active 3way upfront. the tweet/mid lose some 'space'
>but the coherency and soundstage improvements are worth it.
>
>I haven't heard many other systems nor amps in my car, but anyway, the ADS
>are very musical and handle complex passages well. they seem to lack a
>little 'slam' but overall for the money (used on ebay) you won't be
>disappointed.
>
>in doing my install i've called dynaudio USA many times (their support is
>world class), and the guy also recommended linear power.
>http://www.linearpower.com/ he said its great cheap clean power. anyone
>with experience? They look kinda hokey, but the dyn guy has no reason
>fib. his a-list was brax.
>
>I also have to agree the JL sub amp is a 'great' fit for the c90 and
>xdp4000. its crossover capabilities really mesh with will the xdp4000
>inadequcies. i run ~700Hz and below to the JL 500, send ~70Hz and below
>to the subs, then run ~70Hz - ~700Hz to the PQ20 for my 6's up front.
>really nice having more control over those low freq xover and slope.
>
>from my ear the 24/72 slope choice is practically indiscernable.
>
>--
>Scott Walters
>-PacketPusher
>
>
>________________________________ Message 8
>_____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 08:35:39 AM PST US
>From: Scott Walters <scott@packetpushers.com>
>Subject: Re: XDP4000X-List: High end amplifiers?
>
>--> XDP4000X-List message posted by: Scott Walters
><scott@packetpushers.com>
>
>On Wed, 19 Nov 2003, Bobby Braun wrote:
>
> > --> XDP4000X-List message posted by: "Bobby Braun"
><bobbybraun@comcast.net>
> >
> > Ok, enough with the punches. I based my opinion solely on written
>specs,
> > power ratings, and looks.
>
>And that was the point of the punches. We are trying to politely tell you
>you are basing your opinion on the wrong things. It's how the amp sounds
>that is important, not its specs.
>
>
>--
>Scott Walters
>-PacketPusher
>
>
>________________________________ Message 9
>_____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 09:49:51 AM PST US
>From: JSujo@aol.com
>Subject: Re: XDP4000X-List: High end amplifiers?
>
>--> XDP4000X-List message posted by: JSujo@aol.com
>
>In a message dated 11/19/2003 11:36:30 AM Eastern Standard Time,
>scott@packetpushers.com writes:
>in doing my install i've called dynaudio USA many times (their support is
>world class), and the guy also recommended linear power.
>http://www.linearpower.com/ he said its great cheap clean power. anyone
>with experience?
>I know many people who use linear power amps, and they love them...
>
>jack
>
>
>________________________________ Message 10
>____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 03:48:02 PM PST US
>From: Hyo68@aol.com
>Subject: Re: XDP4000X-List: High end amplifiers?
>
>--> XDP4000X-List message posted by: Hyo68@aol.com
>
>i understand that how an amp sounds from say an alpine to a brax is
>subjective and may not be detectable. But many will agree that (if you have
>listened
>to
>a lot of amps) that there is a change in the transparency in the sound -
>some
>amps sound "warm" and other's sound completely transparent, and some sound
>"thin" (hopefully you all can understand this terminology, I know it's not
>exactly a great description). And some amps just have better low end output
>(probably due to damping factor among other things) because they have
>faster response
>
>- when I went from my ppi's to the arc's there was noticible difference in
>bass response with the same speakers and sub... even though the arc's were
>less
>
>is wattage (and I've used many a PPI PC). By the way, yes to the Phoenix
>Gold
>Ti's - those are awesome amps.
>
>On another note, I agree that this was a good way to get the forum going
>again. And thanks to those that convinced me to keep my c90/4kxdp!!!!
>
>
>________________________________ Message 11
>____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 06:30:07 PM PST US
>From: Sqxpert@aol.com
>Subject: Re: XDP4000X-List: High end amplifiers?
>
>--> XDP4000X-List message posted by: Sqxpert@aol.com
>
>hi- just wanted to say , there has been no wrong answer here, that i see,
>and if i was to choose new ampsto replace all 4 of my tube drivers, i
>would
>have to say ppi- pg, or zapco
>maybe even some of the older mtx amps as well
>
>
>tim koehle
>meca sql custom class
>
>
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