Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:56 AM - Re: Radio Altimeter (cpayne@joimail.com)
2. 05:42 AM - Re: Gear and props (A. Dennis Savarese)
3. 06:09 AM - Re: Re: Radio Altimeter (Kendel McCarley)
4. 06:10 AM - landing gear-up (Brian Lloyd)
5. 07:09 AM - Re: Re: Radio Altimeter (Brian Lloyd)
6. 07:25 AM - RPA Store and Membership (Drew Blahnick)
7. 08:25 AM - Re: Re: Radio Altimeter (Ernest Martinez)
8. 09:06 AM - Re: Re: Radio Altimeter (Mark Williamson)
9. 09:25 AM - Re: Re: Radio Altimeter (Mark Williamson)
10. 10:07 AM - Re: Re: Radio Altimeter (David Marsh)
11. 10:42 AM - Re: Re: Radio Altimeter (Mark Williamson)
12. 10:46 AM - Re: Re: Radio Altimeter (cjpilot710@aol.com)
13. 11:01 AM - Re: Re: Radio Altimeter (Ernest Martinez)
14. 11:26 AM - Re: Re: Radio Altimeter (Mark Williamson)
15. 11:45 AM - Re: Re: Radio Altimeter (Ernest Martinez)
16. 11:49 AM - Re: Re: Radio Altimeter (Brian Lloyd)
17. 12:48 PM - Re: landing gear-up (Steve & Donna Hanshew)
18. 12:48 PM - Re: Re: Radio Altimeter (Ernest Martinez)
19. 01:37 PM - Re: RPA Renewals and New Members (Yak52)
20. 02:17 PM - Re: RPA Store and Membership### PAYPAL (Rob Mortara)
21. 02:39 PM - Re: RPA Store and Membership### PAYPAL (Yak52)
22. 03:24 PM - Re: Re: Radio Altimeter (Frank Haertlein)
23. 03:28 PM - Arrival Procedures (Ernest Martinez)
24. 03:45 PM - Re: Re: Radio Altimeter (Brian Lloyd)
25. 03:45 PM - Re: Re: Radio Altimeter (Brian Lloyd)
26. 04:12 PM - Re: Arrival Procedures (A. Dennis Savarese)
27. 04:22 PM - Re: Arrival Procedures (cjpilot710@aol.com)
28. 05:59 PM - Re: Arrival Procedures (cpayne@joimail.com)
29. 09:10 PM - GPS equiped ersonal Locator Beacon (PLB) (Yakjock)
30. 10:44 PM - Rudder cable tunnels ()
31. 11:35 PM - Re: Re: Arrival Procedures (Frank Haertlein)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Radio Altimeter |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "cpayne@joimail.com" <cpayne@joimail.com>
>
>I am not electronics buff, but is there no chance of using
a modified
>"park distance control" unit from a car? And bumping up the
range to
>operate as a low range ground proximity unit ?(radio
altimeter) I know
>some cars (mercedes) also have a radar type unit for cruise
control?
>One could also then perhaps wire it to a solenoid that
blocks operation
>of the gear up select when on the ground, or to a
microswitch so that
>the second the gear up lever moves out of position a buzzer
goes off?
>
You might be on to something here but I'm not sure what the
max range is on an automotive unit. Perhaps I'll patrol the
streets for likely candidates for "donations". It could also
work to let Lead know when #4 is in the slot :)
Craig Payne
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Gear and props |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar@gte.net>
Has anyone seen this audible gear warning device available for experimental
aircraft?
http://www.flighttech.com/prod04.htm
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Walt Lannon" <wlannon@cablerocket.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Gear and props
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Walt Lannon" <wlannon@cablerocket.com>
>
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: Mike Beresford
> <mike_beresford@yahoo.co.uk>
>
> > Incidentally the SA Airforce Harvards had a similar
> > buzzer system for gear, not sure what they had for
> > stall warning.
> >
> > 2) Bypassing the system for aerobatics: This can be
> > done fairly simply, but again the problem is ensuring
> > that the bypass is de-activated for circuits. On
> > another type of aircraft that I work with we have a
> > similar gear warning system (throttle-linked), with a
> > bypass switch for deliberate low power situations. Our
> > safety here is that we have a two crew cockpit, and
> > that the position of the switch is checked by
> > Potential solution is to integrate a synthetic voice
> > challenge - response on the pre-landing checklist.
>
> The Harvard (and T6) gear warning system is a horn powered in series
through
> both gear switches, a throttle switch and a normally closed relay contact.
> The relay also contains normally open contacts and serves as an automatic
> re-energizing horn cut-out for low power, gear up manouvering. It is
> activated by a momentary contact switch that closes the NO contacts, opens
> the NC contacts and kills the horn. At the same time the relay coil is
also
> energized from the gear & throttle switches which keeps the NO contacts
> closed until the throttle is opened. That opens the NO, closes the NC and
> resets the warning circuit to energize again when the throttle is closed.
> Simple and works fine.
> The manual calls for a throttle switch setting of approx. 11" MAP - I
ignore
> that and set it about 17".
>
> Walt
>
>
> >
> >
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Radio Altimeter |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Kendel McCarley <kmmccarley@earthlink.net>
There is that chance, but not for a non-electronics expert. The parts
for the car radar units are incredibly cheap and we've used them for
building really good imagers and force protection radars. I've been
tempted to put together a radar altimeter kit for the homebuilt market,
but knew I'd be sued the first time some idiot misused it and killed
himself.
On Tue, 2005-01-04 at 23:55 -1200, cpayne@joimail.com wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "cpayne@joimail.com" <cpayne@joimail.com>
>
> >
> >I am not electronics buff, but is there no chance of using
> a modified
> >"park distance control" unit from a car? And bumping up the
> range to
> >operate as a low range ground proximity unit ?(radio
> altimeter) I know
> >some cars (mercedes) also have a radar type unit for cruise
> control?
> >One could also then perhaps wire it to a solenoid that
> blocks operation
> >of the gear up select when on the ground, or to a
> microswitch so that
> >the second the gear up lever moves out of position a buzzer
> goes off?
> >
>
> You might be on to something here but I'm not sure what the
> max range is on an automotive unit. Perhaps I'll patrol the
> streets for likely candidates for "donations". It could also
> work to let Lead know when #4 is in the slot :)
>
> Craig Payne
>
--
Kendel McCarley <kmmccarley@earthlink.net>
Message 4
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
I have been watching this thread with interest. The problem of people
landing gear-up is an age-old one. Virtually every certified aircraft
has a gear warning system and still people land gear-up. I remember
laughing at the guy who said, "I was distracted by this buzzer in the
cockpit that I forgot to put the gear down." The buzzer was the gear
warning horn.
Given these results in the rest of the world why do the people here
think that a gear warning system will improve things for Red Star
aircraft? We are human. We can ignore anything, even the gear warning
system. The solution seems to me to be procedural rather than
mechanical.
It is pretty hard to beat the GUMP check but I think that the GUMP
check is misused as an action list rather than a check list. You still
do your action list and always do it the same way (I will give you mine
below) but after the action list is complete and the aircraft is
configured for landing and you have nothing else to do but fly the
airplane to touchdown, then is the time for your quick mental check
list. I use GUMPF:
G(as) - fuel proper tank (ON in the Yak and CJ) aux/boost pump on
U(ndercarriage) - three greens and poles
M(ixture) - mixture in landing configuration
P(rop) - prop high RPM
F(aps) - flaps set for landing
This check takes about two seconds and is a *CHECK* to verify that you
have performed your pre-landing action list. Failure of the GUMPF check
is grounds to go around as you have failed to complete your pre-landing
action list and need to get back into your pre-landing routine.
Here is my pre-landing action list. It works regardless of whether I am
flying a civil pattern or doing an overhead break as it begins when the
aircraft enters downwind.
Downwind mid-field:
Gear down and locked
air on
MAP 400 mmHg
Prop High RPM
mixture set
air pressure check
Verify fuel on
alternate air set as needed
louvers set
landing light as needed
oil cooler set
Emergency air check
(The above items represent a flow that travels from the main air knob
on the left in a flow around the cockpit terminating at the back of the
right side panel. This process is very quick.)
Downwind abeam touchdown point:
Flaps down.
Start base turn when flaps are extended
GUMPF check!
If you always do it the same way the proper behavior will become
ingrained.
I know this seems stupid and basic. I am sure most (all?) of you are
going, "well, duh, I already knew all that." But if you adhere to this
religiously you won't ever land gear-up. The fact that some people ARE
landing gear-up implies that they are not doing this.
OTOH, I suspect that the people who are likely to land gear-up are not
on this list. The people on this list are always looking for better
ways to fly and maintain their aircraft and hence are most likely doing
this stuff anyway. Hopefully we can reach the rest through their
wallets by getting the insurance underwriters to give a break to people
who pursue recurring training.
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Radio Altimeter |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
> I've been
> tempted to put together a radar altimeter kit for the homebuilt market,
> but knew I'd be sued the first time some idiot misused it and killed
> himself.
Yeah, that should always stop us. That way the idiots prevent anyone
from ever getting anywhere. You should also sit home with your doors
locked because if you go for a walk and bump into someone, they may
fall down and sue you. Don't people realize that the world is a hostile
place? <grumble>
If you are really that scared of a suit, set up an offshore corporation
to sell and distribute the kit that way.
Heck, maybe I ought to do that and all the cool ideas that people come
up with can funnel through that offshore corp. I will only take a small
cut for my trouble. It wouldn't take too long for me to set up
something in Aruba, Antigua, or Anguilla. I like the latter for its
proximity to St. Martin and the Virgins. I know it has good shipping
facilities. Doing it in the US Virgins would be easy but you would not
be totally isolated from the US tort system. OTOH, the suit would end
up in territorial court and they don't take kindly to outsiders so a
plaintiff wouldn't likely get very far.
OK, I am game. I will set up a corporation in the VI and I will
manufacture and market the kits you guys want for gear warning, radio
altimeter, etc. We can work out a deal where the designer gets paid a
royalty for the product and is insulated from liability.
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
Message 6
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| Subject: | RPA Store and Membership |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Drew Blahnick <lacloudchaser@yahoo.com>
Folks,
Were removing paypal completely from store membership / renewal registration since
we now have encrypted visa/MC capability. To retain paypal will add back
end workload for the pencil thin staff, but please email me directly if you need
/ or use paypal exclusively for online commerce! Email me directly please,
I would like to get a realistic picture.
Also note, we are removing paypal options completely from online event registration
- no prepayment for event attendance at this time - we will look for 100%
online registration of RPA events to help the event organizer, but payment will
be made in full at the event. Its a cleaner option for you and the volunteers.
This may not apply to the larger events, like ARS IV, they may be as products
in the store in the future...
Now, for a little humor on the current technology birthing pains concerning the
store membersips....
So Deon calls me and dutifully and dog-like, I get to play his "back-testing technology
monkey" on all things dealing with electrons, websites and stores with
the RPA. By the way, we've got a guy so talented here, that the other day when
I was having trouble with software being used for an RPA project for you guys,
Deon starts asking me greek questions about my wireless router, give me this
number, that number...and in about 3 minutes the guy "takes over" my whole
computer - I mean this guy was using my mouse, opening files and programs and
looking at my computer from 450 miles away...makes you really think about what
hackers can do...
So as we all understand, as a non-profit with no development staff for our Chief
Technology Officer (CFO) Deon, the initial birthing pains and modifications
for future efficiency sometimes come from you. Not what we want of course, and
I know Deon puts in a lot of time to limit that fact.
The system should be running fine at this time...email feedback to deon@flyredstar.org
or to me directly,
Since its the new year, I'm also actively looking at simplifying the RPA for us
to use, for the web, that means removing rooms not used, making menus more logical,
increasing font size/readability and the one I would really like to see:
removing passwords from log-in! We just should be using our Member Numbers
which never change anyways. Deon is using semi-rigid technology platforms, so
he is looking in to it, I will let you know...
thanks,
Drew
Drew Blahnick
20126
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Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Radio Altimeter |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
The old Polaroid ultrasonic transducers used for autofocusing systems
would work up to about 50 ft. Better would probably be an infrared
laser and detector.
Ernie
On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 23:55:19 -1200, cpayne@joimail.com
<cpayne@joimail.com> wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "cpayne@joimail.com" <cpayne@joimail.com>
>
> >
> >I am not electronics buff, but is there no chance of using
> a modified
> >"park distance control" unit from a car? And bumping up the
> range to
> >operate as a low range ground proximity unit ?(radio
> altimeter) I know
> >some cars (mercedes) also have a radar type unit for cruise
> control?
> >One could also then perhaps wire it to a solenoid that
> blocks operation
> >of the gear up select when on the ground, or to a
> microswitch so that
> >the second the gear up lever moves out of position a buzzer
> goes off?
> >
>
> You might be on to something here but I'm not sure what the
> max range is on an automotive unit. Perhaps I'll patrol the
> streets for likely candidates for "donations". It could also
> work to let Lead know when #4 is in the slot :)
>
> Craig Payne
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Radio Altimeter |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Mark Williamson" <yakk52@verizon.net>
Here are some links to sensor components used in amateur robotics:
http://www.acroname.com/robotics/parts/R93-SRF04.html
http://www.acroname.com/robotics/parts/c_Sensors.html
There are probably issues with the aircraft speed and the frequency/pulse
duration of the ultrasonic unit. I can only imagine what's involved in
getting an accurate IR distance... It would be interesting if someone put
together a unit and did some tests. The parts are relatively cheap.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ernest Martinez" <erniel29@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Radio Altimeter
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>
> The old Polaroid ultrasonic transducers used for autofocusing systems
> would work up to about 50 ft. Better would probably be an infrared
> laser and detector.
>
> Ernie
>
>
> On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 23:55:19 -1200, cpayne@joimail.com
> <cpayne@joimail.com> wrote:
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "cpayne@joimail.com" <cpayne@joimail.com>
>>
>> >
>> >I am not electronics buff, but is there no chance of using
>> a modified
>> >"park distance control" unit from a car? And bumping up the
>> range to
>> >operate as a low range ground proximity unit ?(radio
>> altimeter) I know
>> >some cars (mercedes) also have a radar type unit for cruise
>> control?
>> >One could also then perhaps wire it to a solenoid that
>> blocks operation
>> >of the gear up select when on the ground, or to a
>> microswitch so that
>> >the second the gear up lever moves out of position a buzzer
>> goes off?
>> >
>>
>> You might be on to something here but I'm not sure what the
>> max range is on an automotive unit. Perhaps I'll patrol the
>> streets for likely candidates for "donations". It could also
>> work to let Lead know when #4 is in the slot :)
>>
>> Craig Payne
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Radio Altimeter |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Mark Williamson" <yakk52@verizon.net>
What you actually need is RADAR - a technology that's *only* about 60+ years
old. Here's one you can build for about $60 (and two tin cans)... no
kidding (it appears to be an actual radar - AND... it's the "worlds #1
science fair project").
http://www.hobbytron.net/r-sg7.html
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ernest Martinez" <erniel29@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Radio Altimeter
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>
> The old Polaroid ultrasonic transducers used for autofocusing systems
> would work up to about 50 ft. Better would probably be an infrared
> laser and detector.
>
> Ernie
>
>
> On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 23:55:19 -1200, cpayne@joimail.com
> <cpayne@joimail.com> wrote:
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "cpayne@joimail.com" <cpayne@joimail.com>
>>
>> >
>> >I am not electronics buff, but is there no chance of using
>> a modified
>> >"park distance control" unit from a car? And bumping up the
>> range to
>> >operate as a low range ground proximity unit ?(radio
>> altimeter) I know
>> >some cars (mercedes) also have a radar type unit for cruise
>> control?
>> >One could also then perhaps wire it to a solenoid that
>> blocks operation
>> >of the gear up select when on the ground, or to a
>> microswitch so that
>> >the second the gear up lever moves out of position a buzzer
>> goes off?
>> >
>>
>> You might be on to something here but I'm not sure what the
>> max range is on an automotive unit. Perhaps I'll patrol the
>> streets for likely candidates for "donations". It could also
>> work to let Lead know when #4 is in the slot :)
>>
>> Craig Payne
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Radio Altimeter |
--> Yak-List message posted by: David Marsh <swampy@videotron.ca>
Mark,
this looks like a CW radar. As such it can only detect doppler ; range
measurement would require frequency modulation. On the other hand, if you
point it downward at an angle of, say 45 deg, you could use the doppler from
your own forward speed to generate a signal. Sadly the lock on range would
vary greatly with surface conditions, so the actual height at which the
device activated would vary considerably. Still, I think a simple rad alt
based device remains the only foolproof technical answer. I don't like the
throttle / flap microswitch ideas for the following reasons:
1. minimum throttle is a frequent occurence in flying aerobatics. I don't
want a warning system that will be heard frequently in normal flight. It
breeds indifference to that alert
2. I do flapless landings frequently. As such, any linkage to the flap
indictor or selector is not foolproof.
It's no coincidence that rad alt is the main sensor for gear warning on most
of the heavy metal.
Dave.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Williamson" <yakk52@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Radio Altimeter
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Mark Williamson" <yakk52@verizon.net>
>
> What you actually need is RADAR - a technology that's *only* about 60+
years
> old. Here's one you can build for about $60 (and two tin cans)... no
> kidding (it appears to be an actual radar - AND... it's the "worlds #1
> science fair project").
>
> http://www.hobbytron.net/r-sg7.html
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ernest Martinez" <erniel29@gmail.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Radio Altimeter
>
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
> >
> > The old Polaroid ultrasonic transducers used for autofocusing systems
> > would work up to about 50 ft. Better would probably be an infrared
> > laser and detector.
> >
> > Ernie
> >
> >
> > On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 23:55:19 -1200, cpayne@joimail.com
> > <cpayne@joimail.com> wrote:
> >> --> Yak-List message posted by: "cpayne@joimail.com"
<cpayne@joimail.com>
> >>
> >> >
> >> >I am not electronics buff, but is there no chance of using
> >> a modified
> >> >"park distance control" unit from a car? And bumping up the
> >> range to
> >> >operate as a low range ground proximity unit ?(radio
> >> altimeter) I know
> >> >some cars (mercedes) also have a radar type unit for cruise
> >> control?
> >> >One could also then perhaps wire it to a solenoid that
> >> blocks operation
> >> >of the gear up select when on the ground, or to a
> >> microswitch so that
> >> >the second the gear up lever moves out of position a buzzer
> >> goes off?
> >> >
> >>
> >> You might be on to something here but I'm not sure what the
> >> max range is on an automotive unit. Perhaps I'll patrol the
> >> streets for likely candidates for "donations". It could also
> >> work to let Lead know when #4 is in the slot :)
> >>
> >> Craig Payne
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Radio Altimeter |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Mark Williamson" <yakk52@verizon.net>
Good point. It probably wouldn't be too difficult to modulate the frequency
and create a primitive radar. Accuracy wouldn't be a problem as long as it
detected a target at say 400 feet, +/- 100 feet. Or perhaps just sensing
the "continuous wave" (in a low power system) would be enough of a warning.
Either way it still falls into the "science fair" category and isn't really
proper avionics.. but it would be interesting to play with.
mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Marsh" <swampy@videotron.ca>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Radio Altimeter
> --> Yak-List message posted by: David Marsh <swampy@videotron.ca>
>
> Mark,
>
> this looks like a CW radar. As such it can only detect doppler ; range
> measurement would require frequency modulation. On the other hand, if you
> point it downward at an angle of, say 45 deg, you could use the doppler
> from
> your own forward speed to generate a signal. Sadly the lock on range would
> vary greatly with surface conditions, so the actual height at which the
> device activated would vary considerably. Still, I think a simple rad alt
> based device remains the only foolproof technical answer. I don't like the
> throttle / flap microswitch ideas for the following reasons:
>
> 1. minimum throttle is a frequent occurence in flying aerobatics. I
> don't
> want a warning system that will be heard frequently in normal flight. It
> breeds indifference to that alert
>
> 2. I do flapless landings frequently. As such, any linkage to the flap
> indictor or selector is not foolproof.
>
> It's no coincidence that rad alt is the main sensor for gear warning on
> most
> of the heavy metal.
>
> Dave.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark Williamson" <yakk52@verizon.net>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Radio Altimeter
>
>
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Mark Williamson" <yakk52@verizon.net>
>>
>> What you actually need is RADAR - a technology that's *only* about 60+
> years
>> old. Here's one you can build for about $60 (and two tin cans)... no
>> kidding (it appears to be an actual radar - AND... it's the "worlds #1
>> science fair project").
>>
>> http://www.hobbytron.net/r-sg7.html
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Ernest Martinez" <erniel29@gmail.com>
>> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Radio Altimeter
>>
>>
>> > --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>> >
>> > The old Polaroid ultrasonic transducers used for autofocusing systems
>> > would work up to about 50 ft. Better would probably be an infrared
>> > laser and detector.
>> >
>> > Ernie
>> >
>> >
>> > On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 23:55:19 -1200, cpayne@joimail.com
>> > <cpayne@joimail.com> wrote:
>> >> --> Yak-List message posted by: "cpayne@joimail.com"
> <cpayne@joimail.com>
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >I am not electronics buff, but is there no chance of using
>> >> a modified
>> >> >"park distance control" unit from a car? And bumping up the
>> >> range to
>> >> >operate as a low range ground proximity unit ?(radio
>> >> altimeter) I know
>> >> >some cars (mercedes) also have a radar type unit for cruise
>> >> control?
>> >> >One could also then perhaps wire it to a solenoid that
>> >> blocks operation
>> >> >of the gear up select when on the ground, or to a
>> >> microswitch so that
>> >> >the second the gear up lever moves out of position a buzzer
>> >> goes off?
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> You might be on to something here but I'm not sure what the
>> >> max range is on an automotive unit. Perhaps I'll patrol the
>> >> streets for likely candidates for "donations". It could also
>> >> work to let Lead know when #4 is in the slot :)
>> >>
>> >> Craig Payne
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Radio Altimeter |
--> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
In a message dated 1/5/2005 1:42:55 PM Eastern Standard Time,
yakk52@verizon.net writes:
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Mark Williamson" <yakk52@verizon.net>
Good point. It probably wouldn't be too difficult to modulate the frequency
and create a primitive radar. Accuracy wouldn't be a problem as long as it
detected a target at say 400 feet, +/- 100 feet. Or perhaps just sensing
the "continuous wave" (in a low power system) would be enough of a warning.
Either way it still falls into the "science fair" category and isn't really
proper avionics.. but it would be interesting to play with.
mark
So you're going to get a gear warning when you do that "buzz job" to 50'?
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Radio Altimeter |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
A simple rangefinder is all that is needed. Commercially available
Ultrasonic and Laser range finders are probably on sale on Ebay as we
speak. When I bought my L-29 the previous owner had jury rigged a
laser rangefinder which had an RS-232 interface. He had it coupled to
a VHF radio and was using it as a targeting system for mock dog
fighting. When he scored a hit (getting a reflection from the other
plane) the rangefinder would send out a coded pulse to the radio in
the other plane turning on a light and shutting down HIS laser.
Point being this laser range finder is quite old and can probably be
bought for peanuts.
Ernie
On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 13:41:18 -0500, Mark Williamson <yakk52@verizon.net> wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Mark Williamson" <yakk52@verizon.net>
>
> Good point. It probably wouldn't be too difficult to modulate the frequency
> and create a primitive radar. Accuracy wouldn't be a problem as long as it
> detected a target at say 400 feet, +/- 100 feet. Or perhaps just sensing
> the "continuous wave" (in a low power system) would be enough of a warning.
> Either way it still falls into the "science fair" category and isn't really
> proper avionics.. but it would be interesting to play with.
>
> mark
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Marsh" <swampy@videotron.ca>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Radio Altimeter
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: David Marsh <swampy@videotron.ca>
> >
> > Mark,
> >
> > this looks like a CW radar. As such it can only detect doppler ; range
> > measurement would require frequency modulation. On the other hand, if you
> > point it downward at an angle of, say 45 deg, you could use the doppler
> > from
> > your own forward speed to generate a signal. Sadly the lock on range would
> > vary greatly with surface conditions, so the actual height at which the
> > device activated would vary considerably. Still, I think a simple rad alt
> > based device remains the only foolproof technical answer. I don't like the
> > throttle / flap microswitch ideas for the following reasons:
> >
> > 1. minimum throttle is a frequent occurence in flying aerobatics. I
> > don't
> > want a warning system that will be heard frequently in normal flight. It
> > breeds indifference to that alert
> >
> > 2. I do flapless landings frequently. As such, any linkage to the flap
> > indictor or selector is not foolproof.
> >
> > It's no coincidence that rad alt is the main sensor for gear warning on
> > most
> > of the heavy metal.
> >
> > Dave.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Mark Williamson" <yakk52@verizon.net>
> > To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Radio Altimeter
> >
> >
> >> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Mark Williamson" <yakk52@verizon.net>
> >>
> >> What you actually need is RADAR - a technology that's *only* about 60+
> > years
> >> old. Here's one you can build for about $60 (and two tin cans)... no
> >> kidding (it appears to be an actual radar - AND... it's the "worlds #1
> >> science fair project").
> >>
> >> http://www.hobbytron.net/r-sg7.html
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Ernest Martinez" <erniel29@gmail.com>
> >> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> >> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Radio Altimeter
> >>
> >>
> >> > --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
> >> >
> >> > The old Polaroid ultrasonic transducers used for autofocusing systems
> >> > would work up to about 50 ft. Better would probably be an infrared
> >> > laser and detector.
> >> >
> >> > Ernie
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 23:55:19 -1200, cpayne@joimail.com
> >> > <cpayne@joimail.com> wrote:
> >> >> --> Yak-List message posted by: "cpayne@joimail.com"
> > <cpayne@joimail.com>
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >I am not electronics buff, but is there no chance of using
> >> >> a modified
> >> >> >"park distance control" unit from a car? And bumping up the
> >> >> range to
> >> >> >operate as a low range ground proximity unit ?(radio
> >> >> altimeter) I know
> >> >> >some cars (mercedes) also have a radar type unit for cruise
> >> >> control?
> >> >> >One could also then perhaps wire it to a solenoid that
> >> >> blocks operation
> >> >> >of the gear up select when on the ground, or to a
> >> >> microswitch so that
> >> >> >the second the gear up lever moves out of position a buzzer
> >> >> goes off?
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> You might be on to something here but I'm not sure what the
> >> >> max range is on an automotive unit. Perhaps I'll patrol the
> >> >> streets for likely candidates for "donations". It could also
> >> >> work to let Lead know when #4 is in the slot :)
> >> >>
> >> >> Craig Payne
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Radio Altimeter |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Mark Williamson" <yakk52@verizon.net>
Yep. Although it could have a throttle switch that would enable it at low
throttle settings. I actually think most of the proposed ideas are good and
that there probably isn't a 100% fool-proof system. Better to have
something than nothing?
----- Original Message -----
From: <cjpilot710@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Radio Altimeter
> --> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 1/5/2005 1:42:55 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> yakk52@verizon.net writes:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Mark Williamson" <yakk52@verizon.net>
>
> Good point. It probably wouldn't be too difficult to modulate the
> frequency
> and create a primitive radar. Accuracy wouldn't be a problem as long as
> it
> detected a target at say 400 feet, +/- 100 feet. Or perhaps just sensing
> the "continuous wave" (in a low power system) would be enough of a
> warning.
> Either way it still falls into the "science fair" category and isn't
> really
> proper avionics.. but it would be interesting to play with.
>
> mark
> So you're going to get a gear warning when you do that "buzz job" to 50'?
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Radio Altimeter |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
http://www.acroname.com/robotics/info/examples/srf04-4/srf04-4.html
On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 14:25:45 -0500, Mark Williamson <yakk52@verizon.net> wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Mark Williamson" <yakk52@verizon.net>
>
> Yep. Although it could have a throttle switch that would enable it at low
> throttle settings. I actually think most of the proposed ideas are good and
> that there probably isn't a 100% fool-proof system. Better to have
> something than nothing?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <cjpilot710@aol.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Radio Altimeter
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
> >
> > In a message dated 1/5/2005 1:42:55 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> > yakk52@verizon.net writes:
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Mark Williamson" <yakk52@verizon.net>
> >
> > Good point. It probably wouldn't be too difficult to modulate the
> > frequency
> > and create a primitive radar. Accuracy wouldn't be a problem as long as
> > it
> > detected a target at say 400 feet, +/- 100 feet. Or perhaps just sensing
> > the "continuous wave" (in a low power system) would be enough of a
> > warning.
> > Either way it still falls into the "science fair" category and isn't
> > really
> > proper avionics.. but it would be interesting to play with.
> >
> > mark
> > So you're going to get a gear warning when you do that "buzz job" to 50'?
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Radio Altimeter |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
There are a lot of radio/RADAR altimeters available used. Terra used to
have a nice one that was about $3000 new I bet you could get for a lot
less now. Most have a display and a DH setting. Most people leave the
DH set for 200' for ILS approaches but you can set it to something else
like 100' for gear warning. They have an output to drive an enunciator
which can be connected through a relay that is driven by the gear-down
indicators. That way if you pass through 100' with the gear up, you get
an enunciator light/tone/voice/whatever.
Using an existing available product is more likely to happen in the
short term.
As an aside, please take a moment to edit out all the extra stuff in
your email messages. Most people don't need the conversation from 20
exchanges back still in your email as they have already read it. Two or
three are just fine to help others keep track of where you are in the
conversation.
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: landing gear-up |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Steve & Donna Hanshew" <dhanshew@cinci.rr.com>
Amen,
I remember four standards pilots who blithely landed a Nihon YS-11 gear up
on a training flight. They pulled the gear horn CB because it was annoying
them. It was a beeeeeuuutiful gear up too. They replaced props and three
belly skins and that was that.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brianl@lloyd.com>
Subject: Yak-List: landing gear-up
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
>
> I have been watching this thread with interest. The problem of people
> landing gear-up is an age-old one. Virtually every certified aircraft
> has a gear warning system and still people land gear-up. I remember
> laughing at the guy who said, "I was distracted by this buzzer in the
> cockpit that I forgot to put the gear down." The buzzer was the gear
> warning horn.
>
> Given these results in the rest of the world why do the people here
> think that a gear warning system will improve things for Red Star
> aircraft? We are human. We can ignore anything, even the gear warning
> system. The solution seems to me to be procedural rather than
> mechanical.
>
> It is pretty hard to beat the GUMP check but I think that the GUMP
> check is misused as an action list rather than a check list. You still
> do your action list and always do it the same way (I will give you mine
> below) but after the action list is complete and the aircraft is
> configured for landing and you have nothing else to do but fly the
> airplane to touchdown, then is the time for your quick mental check
> list. I use GUMPF:
>
> G(as) - fuel proper tank (ON in the Yak and CJ) aux/boost pump on
> U(ndercarriage) - three greens and poles
> M(ixture) - mixture in landing configuration
> P(rop) - prop high RPM
> F(aps) - flaps set for landing
>
> This check takes about two seconds and is a *CHECK* to verify that you
> have performed your pre-landing action list. Failure of the GUMPF check
> is grounds to go around as you have failed to complete your pre-landing
> action list and need to get back into your pre-landing routine.
>
> Here is my pre-landing action list. It works regardless of whether I am
> flying a civil pattern or doing an overhead break as it begins when the
> aircraft enters downwind.
>
> Downwind mid-field:
>
> Gear down and locked
>
> air on
> MAP 400 mmHg
> Prop High RPM
> mixture set
> air pressure check
> Verify fuel on
> alternate air set as needed
> louvers set
> landing light as needed
> oil cooler set
> Emergency air check
>
> (The above items represent a flow that travels from the main air knob
> on the left in a flow around the cockpit terminating at the back of the
> right side panel. This process is very quick.)
>
> Downwind abeam touchdown point:
>
> Flaps down.
> Start base turn when flaps are extended
>
> GUMPF check!
>
> If you always do it the same way the proper behavior will become
> ingrained.
>
> I know this seems stupid and basic. I am sure most (all?) of you are
> going, "well, duh, I already knew all that." But if you adhere to this
> religiously you won't ever land gear-up. The fact that some people ARE
> landing gear-up implies that they are not doing this.
>
> OTOH, I suspect that the people who are likely to land gear-up are not
> on this list. The people on this list are always looking for better
> ways to fly and maintain their aircraft and hence are most likely doing
> this stuff anyway. Hopefully we can reach the rest through their
> wallets by getting the insurance underwriters to give a break to people
> who pursue recurring training.
>
> Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
> brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
> +1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
>
> I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
> Antoine de Saint-Exupry
>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Radio Altimeter |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
Sorry, I'm using a new email client :(
Ernie
Message 19
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| Subject: | RPA Renewals and New Members |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Yak52" <yak52@flyredstar.org>
It was an error on our side - please try again and let me know.
Thanks for your patience,
Deon.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ronald Kalemba
Subject: Re: Yak-List: RPA Renewals and New Members
--> Yak-List message posted by: Ronald Kalemba <emu21@sbcglobal.net>
Drew,
I tried four times tonight to buy my membership renewal and fast card and
it wouldn't
take it. Are their problems?
Thanks,
Ron Kalemba
Message 20
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| Subject: | RPA Store and Membership### PAYPAL |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Rob Mortara" <rob@robinhill.com>
Monday I just renewed my membership , paid fast dues , and ordered items
from the store and paid using Paypal. Is this going to work?
I think its a great way to pay for items using paypal I hope you will
reconsider using it.
rob
Message 21
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| Subject: | RPA Store and Membership### PAYPAL |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Yak52" <yak52@flyredstar.org>
Rob,
Your PayPal transactions are fine and will be processed. I will leave PayPal
as an option in the store.
Deon.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Mortara
Subject: RE: Yak-List: RPA Store and Membership### PAYPAL
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Rob Mortara" <rob@robinhill.com>
Monday I just renewed my membership , paid fast dues , and ordered items
from the store and paid using Paypal. Is this going to work?
I think its a great way to pay for items using paypal I hope you will
reconsider using it.
rob
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Radio Altimeter |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
Sounds like you guy are onto something with the infrared detector.
Cheap, relatively easy to make and probably very reliable. Could be
marketed to almost anyone with a retractable. I like the idea. Make it
and I'll buy one.
Frank
N9110M
YAK-52
L71
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark
Williamson
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Radio Altimeter
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Mark Williamson" <yakk52@verizon.net>
Here are some links to sensor components used in amateur robotics:
http://www.acroname.com/robotics/parts/R93-SRF04.html
http://www.acroname.com/robotics/parts/c_Sensors.html
There are probably issues with the aircraft speed and the
frequency/pulse
duration of the ultrasonic unit. I can only imagine what's involved in
getting an accurate IR distance... It would be interesting if someone
put
together a unit and did some tests. The parts are relatively cheap.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ernest Martinez" <erniel29@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Radio Altimeter
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>
> The old Polaroid ultrasonic transducers used for autofocusing systems
> would work up to about 50 ft. Better would probably be an infrared
> laser and detector.
>
> Ernie
>
>
> On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 23:55:19 -1200, cpayne@joimail.com
> <cpayne@joimail.com> wrote:
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "cpayne@joimail.com"
>> --> <cpayne@joimail.com>
>>
>> >
>> >I am not electronics buff, but is there no chance of using
>> a modified
>> >"park distance control" unit from a car? And bumping up the
>> range to
>> >operate as a low range ground proximity unit ?(radio
>> altimeter) I know
>> >some cars (mercedes) also have a radar type unit for cruise
>> control?
>> >One could also then perhaps wire it to a solenoid that
>> blocks operation
>> >of the gear up select when on the ground, or to a
>> microswitch so that
>> >the second the gear up lever moves out of position a buzzer
>> goes off?
>> >
>>
>> You might be on to something here but I'm not sure what the max range
>> is on an automotive unit. Perhaps I'll patrol the streets for likely
>> candidates for "donations". It could also work to let Lead know when
>> #4 is in the slot :)
>>
>> Craig Payne
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Arrival Procedures |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
I was thinking that it may be a good idea to define some basic arrival
procedures for WayCross since this year we'll be having Jets in the
pattern as well as prop planes. I think some simple guidelines will
assure a safe arrival when we all converge to do overhead breaks to
land.
I suggest pattern altitude of 1500 ft agl for the jets and 1000 ft for
piston powered folks.
Does this sound reasonable?
Ernie
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Radio Altimeter |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
On Jan 5, 2005, at 6:24 PM, Frank Haertlein wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein"
> <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
>
> Sounds like you guy are onto something with the infrared detector.
I think that radio is more likely to work. I think that IR-based system
without a narrow-band filter ahead of the detector is likely to be
blinded by reflected sunlight during the day but it would be an
interesting experiment.
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Radio Altimeter |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
On Jan 5, 2005, at 6:24 PM, Frank Haertlein wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein"
> <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
>
> Sounds like you guy are onto something with the infrared detector.
I think that radio is more likely to work. I think that IR-based system
without a narrow-band filter ahead of the detector is likely to be
blinded by reflected sunlight during the day but it would be an
interesting experiment.
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Arrival Procedures |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar@gte.net>
Great idea Ernie. I'm in.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ernest Martinez" <erniel29@gmail.com>
Subject: Yak-List: Arrival Procedures
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>
> I was thinking that it may be a good idea to define some basic arrival
> procedures for WayCross since this year we'll be having Jets in the
> pattern as well as prop planes. I think some simple guidelines will
> assure a safe arrival when we all converge to do overhead breaks to
> land.
>
> I suggest pattern altitude of 1500 ft agl for the jets and 1000 ft for
> piston powered folks.
>
> Does this sound reasonable?
>
> Ernie
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Arrival Procedures |
--> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
In a message dated 1/5/2005 6:28:34 PM Eastern Standard Time,
erniel29@gmail.com writes:
I was thinking that it may be a good idea to define some basic arrival
procedures for WayCross since this year we'll be having Jets in the
pattern as well as prop planes. I think some simple guidelines will
assure a safe arrival when we all converge to do overhead breaks to
land.
I suggest pattern altitude of 1500 ft agl for the jets and 1000 ft for
piston powered folks.
Does this sound reasonable?
Ernie
Ernie, and all,
That sounds OK. Normal pattern that our formation fly should keep us
separated OK. It's those who are NOT participating that get in our way. We normally
start our 360 over heads from an initial approch from about 3 mile out. Just
plan to set up yourself 3 mile behind the guys in front of you. Vata bing
vata bom. 1-2-3-4- space 1-2-3-4- etc etc. That's how the WW2 guys did it by
the hundreds.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Arrival Procedures |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "cpayne@joimail.com" <cpayne@joimail.com>
CJ Drivers, remember to bleed off speed to 200KIAS prior to
entering the airport traffic area and be alert for
Slow-moving Yaks :
)
Craig Payne
Message 29
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| Subject: | GPS equiped ersonal Locator Beacon (PLB) |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Yakjock" <Yakjock@msn.com>
I saw an ad today for a FASTFIND PLB that is GPS equipped and operates on both
406 MHz and the older 121.5 MHz. Price (at King) is $649!
Virtually no one is rescued with the old ELTs because it can take many hours for
the signal to be received, and then the SAR teams know where you are - within
about a 30 square kilometer area (if my memory is correct. Ever see the guys
going down rows of planes and hangars trying to get close?).
The new systems use the 406 MHz frequency that is received within three minutes.
With the built in GPS they claim to know where you are within 100 feet. That
sounds great to me! I don't want to wait a day or more for someone to find
my sweet tush if I need help.
I carry the new style in the Bonanza, but the cost has been too high to put a second
unit in the CJ. This is not only affordable, you can take it with you on
other ventures. One drawback, you have to be manually capable of starting it
-- it does not automatically start on impact.
Anyway, check it out at http://www.mcmurdo.co.uk/?Menu17&Page/Contents/ListProducts.asp&ID1026
We have our Brit friends to thank for a neat new tool.
Hal
Message 30
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| Subject: | Rudder cable tunnels |
--> Yak-List message posted by: <f4ffm2@adelphia.net>
Hello Yak listers,
Several weeks ago, I promised to make available a copy of the order modifying
the rudder cable tunnels on the floor of Yak 52 cockpits. I have finally dug
up a copy of this order.
I am in Russia right now, but plan to return home by next Tuesday. I'll post
the order here on the list shortly after I return.
Sorry for the delay.
Roger Baker
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Arrival Procedures |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
Craig, you said that CJ Drivers should remember to bleed off speed to
200KIAS prior to entering the airport traffic area and to be alert for
Yaks.
I think that is a very good idea and in keeping with common courtesy.
Keep in mind that any CJ gumps who fail to abide by the rules of common
courtesy will be promptly fragmented by the superior, fighter like
handling and maneuvering ability of any YAK that may also be present in
the traffic area.
Frank
YAK-52
N9110M
L-71
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