Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:44 AM - RPA events (Drew Blahnick)
2. 12:09 PM - Re: T-6, T-34 (Jon Boede)
3. 03:46 PM - Re: T-6, T-34 (A. Dennis Savarese)
4. 04:23 PM - Re: T-6, T-34 (Ernest Martinez)
5. 06:18 PM - Re: T-6, T-34 (Walter Lannon)
6. 06:57 PM - Re: T-6, T-34 (Ernest Martinez)
7. 07:01 PM - Re: T-6, T-34 (A. Dennis Savarese)
Message 1
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Drew Blahnick <lacloudchaser@yahoo.com>
RPAers, please read -
What we really need is a National Event Coordinator (NEC). Totally simple to execute
this one - we give you a excell list of all events, and organizers names,
emails and phone numbers, just need the NEC to insure the whole list is up
to date on event dates and email the list to Deon the web manager to update his
website database. This may seem like minor coordination, but it would be a huge
benefit to all by insuring the yak list, RPA newsletters, event notices, web
site event list and any other event news is all correct and up to date for
everyone - .
I will waive your RPA membership dues and store will ship you a volunteer logo
hat (same with other non elected RPA positions now).
Please volunteer for the NEC so we can get a handle on this crucial management
position - some events aren't getting out there information correctly, or at all
- join Blitz Fox and the rest of the RPA staffers in helping the cause for
a great time had by all at the events...
Drew Blahnick
RPA President
Yak-List Digest Server <yak-list-digest@matronics.com> wrote:
*
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Total Messages Posted Thu 06/23/05: 30
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:31 AM - Re: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer (A. Dennis Savarese)
2. 06:20 AM - Re: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer (Roger Doc Kemp)
3. 06:27 AM - Re: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer (Ernest Martinez)
4. 06:48 AM - Re: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer (A. Dennis Savarese)
5. 06:56 AM - Re: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer (Roger Doc Kemp)
6. 07:06 AM - Re: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer (A. Dennis Savarese)
7. 07:19 AM - Re: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer (Ernest Martinez)
8. 07:47 AM - CJ for sale (Kelley Monroe)
9. 07:56 AM - Re: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer (airshowpilot1@aol.com)
10. 08:09 AM - Re: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer (Ernest Martinez)
11. 08:28 AM - Re: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer (Roger Doc Kemp)
12. 09:12 AM - Re: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer (Roger Doc Kemp)
13. 09:28 AM - Re: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer (Ernest Martinez)
14. 09:46 AM - yak aircombat coming to the RPA! (Drew Blahnick)
15. 09:53 AM - Re: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer (Roger Doc Kemp)
16. 10:01 AM - Re: yak aircombat coming to the RPA! (Ernest Martinez)
17. 10:21 AM - Buy an RV (Roger Doc Kemp)
18. 10:29 AM - Re: yak aircombat coming to the RPA! (Roger Doc Kemp)
19. 11:26 AM - Re: yak aircombat coming to the RPA! (Ernest Martinez)
20. 11:52 AM - Re: yak aircombat coming to the RPA! (Roger Doc Kemp)
21. 04:17 PM - Re: Re: The Feds (Ron Davis)
22. 05:40 PM - Re: T-6, T-34 (Ron Davis)
23. 05:49 PM - Yak/CJ Spar inspections (Vance Cochrane)
24. 06:02 PM - Re: why does? (Ron Davis)
25. 06:14 PM - Re: Re: mmo,s ufo's, pto.s, etc.. (Ron Davis)
26. 06:22 PM - Re: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer (Ron Davis)
27. 06:50 PM - Re: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer (Ron Davis)
28. 08:23 PM - Re: Yak/CJ Spar inspections (Roger Doc Kemp)
29. 08:30 PM - Re: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer (Roger Doc Kemp)
30. 09:32 PM - Re: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer (Barry Hancock)
________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
Time: 03:31:19 AM PST US
From: "A. Dennis Savarese"
Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
Doc,
I wonder where I've heard this before? Seems like someone that you and I
both know with the initials ADS had regurgitated those exact words almost
verbatim a little over a year ago. I completely echo your sentiments. All
it will take is one.
ADS (Dennis)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Doc Kemp"
Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp"
>
> This looks all to familiar. We need to be careful with this fighter pilot
> for a day thing as well as teaching our members ACM. You don't get to be a
> Fangs hanging, hair on fire, balls on your forehead fighter pilot in a day
> or a few three day weekends for that matter. It takes us 18 MO. to mint a
> steely eyed young fledgling fighter pilot (wing man). That is with
> "clubbing the baby seals" 5 days a week for 24 weeks. That includes giving
> them a Friday night off at the "big house for Crud, chasing bar flies, bat
> hangings, and in general killing brain cells" to blow off steam. Yeah, I
> know it only takes about 3 weeks to teach the baby seal to proficiently
> fly
> the plane and the rest is learning to employ the A/C as a weapon.
> We are not going to train our RPA members to fly ACM in 3 day weekend
> clinics and achieve any level of proficiency or safety. Then send "Bubba"
> to his home drone to demonstrate to his buds what he learned having no
> clue
> as to what Rolling G is, what the physiology of G's entail, or what stress
> he is introducing his already stressed wing spare to. It is a receipt for
> disaster. That will not be good for the rest of the YAK community,
> particularly here where travel stops between the east and west coast and
> only 5% of us have a passport.
> For that matter, I personally am not for introducing John Q public to ACM.
> Wonder how many times these blokes have had to clean the trunk out after
> the pax puked all over himself and the airplane. I know for a fact that
> really pisses a crew chief off.
> But since we already have someone out there doing this, we now have a
> barometer to see how long it will take to shuck a wing off a CJ. A cold
> thought I know, but ....
> Doc
>
>
>> [Original Message]
>> From: Graeme Frew
>> To:
>> Date: 6/22/2005 6:46:40 PM
>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
>>
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Graeme Frew"
>>
>> All good info. I'm told that our dear old BAC Strikemasters used to work
> on
>> a Fatigue Index. 80 FIs got you a major servicing. A sortie involving acm
>> and low level in a howling westerly over NZ's terrain burned up 0.8 FI.
>> And to completely ruin your day check out what they are doing with
> Nanchangs
>> in Perth, Australia at www.fciwa.com Look familiar to anyone?
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
Time: 06:20:21 AM PST US
From: "Roger Doc Kemp"
Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp"
After watching our other aviating brethern (T-34 and T-6) pull the wings
off their birds rather rudely, I have come to the conclusion that ACM for
John Q Public is not in my best interest. I know what it takes for us in
the guard to give a FAM ride and that "Ain't" even close to ACM. Our crew
cheifs still have to clean puke out of the jets! That really pisses them
off. In pilot training we had to wash our own out and indure the
embarassment.
I agree with you Dennnis, We do not need to bring the FAA blight to our
community.
Doc
> [Original Message]
> From: A. Dennis Savarese
> To:
> Date: 6/23/2005 5:30:48 AM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
>
> Doc,
> I wonder where I've heard this before? Seems like someone that you and I
> both know with the initials ADS had regurgitated those exact words almost
> verbatim a little over a year ago. I completely echo your sentiments.
All
> it will take is one.
> ADS (Dennis)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Roger Doc Kemp"
> To:
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
>
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp"
> >
> > This looks all to familiar. We need to be careful with this fighter
pilot
> > for a day thing as well as teaching our members ACM. You don't get to
be a
> > Fangs hanging, hair on fire, balls on your forehead fighter pilot in a
day
> > or a few three day weekends for that matter. It takes us 18 MO. to mint
a
> > steely eyed young fledgling fighter pilot (wing man). That is with
> > "clubbing the baby seals" 5 days a week for 24 weeks. That includes
giving
> > them a Friday night off at the "big house for Crud, chasing bar flies,
bat
> > hangings, and in general killing brain cells" to blow off steam. Yeah, I
> > know it only takes about 3 weeks to teach the baby seal to proficiently
> > fly
> > the plane and the rest is learning to employ the A/C as a weapon.
> > We are not going to train our RPA members to fly ACM in 3 day weekend
> > clinics and achieve any level of proficiency or safety. Then send
"Bubba"
> > to his home drone to demonstrate to his buds what he learned having no
> > clue
> > as to what Rolling G is, what the physiology of G's entail, or what
stress
> > he is introducing his already stressed wing spare to. It is a receipt
for
> > disaster. That will not be good for the rest of the YAK community,
> > particularly here where travel stops between the east and west coast and
> > only 5% of us have a passport.
> > For that matter, I personally am not for introducing John Q public to
ACM.
> > Wonder how many times these blokes have had to clean the trunk out after
> > the pax puked all over himself and the airplane. I know for a fact that
> > really pisses a crew chief off.
> > But since we already have someone out there doing this, we now have a
> > barometer to see how long it will take to shuck a wing off a CJ. A cold
> > thought I know, but ....
> > Doc
> >
> >
> >> [Original Message]
> >> From: Graeme Frew
> >> To:
> >> Date: 6/22/2005 6:46:40 PM
> >> Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
> >>
> >> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Graeme Frew"
> >>
> >> All good info. I'm told that our dear old BAC Strikemasters used to
work
> > on
> >> a Fatigue Index. 80 FIs got you a major servicing. A sortie involving
acm
> >> and low level in a howling westerly over NZ's terrain burned up 0.8 FI.
> >> And to completely ruin your day check out what they are doing with
> > Nanchangs
> >> in Perth, Australia at www.fciwa.com Look familiar to anyone?
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________
Time: 06:27:18 AM PST US
From: Ernest Martinez
Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez
I'm still trying to figure out who ADC is.
Ernie
On 6/23/05, Roger Doc Kemp wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp"
>
> After watching our other aviating brethern (T-34 and T-6) pull the wings
> off their birds rather rudely, I have come to the conclusion that ACM for
> John Q Public is not in my best interest. I know what it takes for us in
> the guard to give a FAM ride and that "Ain't" even close to ACM. Our crew
> cheifs still have to clean puke out of the jets! That really pisses them
> off. In pilot training we had to wash our own out and indure the
> embarassment.
> I agree with you Dennnis, We do not need to bring the FAA blight to our
> community.
> Doc
>
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: A. Dennis Savarese
> > To:
> > Date: 6/23/2005 5:30:48 AM
> > Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
> >
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
>
> >
> > Doc,
> > I wonder where I've heard this before? Seems like someone that you and I
> > both know with the initials ADS had regurgitated those exact words almost
> > verbatim a little over a year ago. I completely echo your sentiments.
> All
> > it will take is one.
> > ADS (Dennis)
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Roger Doc Kemp"
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
> >
> >
> > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp"
>
> > >
> > > This looks all to familiar. We need to be careful with this fighter
> pilot
> > > for a day thing as well as teaching our members ACM. You don't get to
> be a
> > > Fangs hanging, hair on fire, balls on your forehead fighter pilot in a
> day
> > > or a few three day weekends for that matter. It takes us 18 MO. to mint
> a
> > > steely eyed young fledgling fighter pilot (wing man). That is with
> > > "clubbing the baby seals" 5 days a week for 24 weeks. That includes
> giving
> > > them a Friday night off at the "big house for Crud, chasing bar flies,
> bat
> > > hangings, and in general killing brain cells" to blow off steam. Yeah, I
> > > know it only takes about 3 weeks to teach the baby seal to proficiently
> > > fly
> > > the plane and the rest is learning to employ the A/C as a weapon.
> > > We are not going to train our RPA members to fly ACM in 3 day weekend
> > > clinics and achieve any level of proficiency or safety. Then send
> "Bubba"
> > > to his home drone to demonstrate to his buds what he learned having no
> > > clue
> > > as to what Rolling G is, what the physiology of G's entail, or what
> stress
> > > he is introducing his already stressed wing spare to. It is a receipt
> for
> > > disaster. That will not be good for the rest of the YAK community,
> > > particularly here where travel stops between the east and west coast and
> > > only 5% of us have a passport.
> > > For that matter, I personally am not for introducing John Q public to
> ACM.
> > > Wonder how many times these blokes have had to clean the trunk out after
> > > the pax puked all over himself and the airplane. I know for a fact that
> > > really pisses a crew chief off.
> > > But since we already have someone out there doing this, we now have a
> > > barometer to see how long it will take to shuck a wing off a CJ. A cold
> > > thought I know, but ....
> > > Doc
> > >
> > >
> > >> [Original Message]
> > >> From: Graeme Frew
> > >> To:
> > >> Date: 6/22/2005 6:46:40 PM
> > >> Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
> > >>
> > >> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Graeme Frew"
> > >>
> > >> All good info. I'm told that our dear old BAC Strikemasters used to
> work
> > > on
> > >> a Fatigue Index. 80 FIs got you a major servicing. A sortie involving
> acm
> > >> and low level in a howling westerly over NZ's terrain burned up 0.8 FI.
> > >> And to completely ruin your day check out what they are doing with
> > > Nanchangs
> > >> in Perth, Australia at www.fciwa.com Look familiar to anyone?
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________
Time: 06:48:09 AM PST US
From: "A. Dennis Savarese"
Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
It's ADS, not ADC. And that's me....Dennis. First name Anthony, middle
name Dennis.
-snipped from previous email- "....I completely echo your sentiments. All
it will take is one.
ADS (Dennis)"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ernest Martinez"
Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez
>
> I'm still trying to figure out who ADC is.
>
> Ernie
>
> On 6/23/05, Roger Doc Kemp wrote:
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp"
>>
>>
>> After watching our other aviating brethern (T-34 and T-6) pull the wings
>> off their birds rather rudely, I have come to the conclusion that ACM for
>> John Q Public is not in my best interest. I know what it takes for us in
>> the guard to give a FAM ride and that "Ain't" even close to ACM. Our crew
>> cheifs still have to clean puke out of the jets! That really pisses them
>> off. In pilot training we had to wash our own out and indure the
>> embarassment.
>> I agree with you Dennnis, We do not need to bring the FAA blight to our
>> community.
>> Doc
>>
>>
>> > [Original Message]
>> > From: A. Dennis Savarese
>> > To:
>> > Date: 6/23/2005 5:30:48 AM
>> > Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
>> >
>> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
>>
>> >
>> > Doc,
>> > I wonder where I've heard this before? Seems like someone that you and
>> > I
>> > both know with the initials ADS had regurgitated those exact words
>> > almost
>> > verbatim a little over a year ago. I completely echo your sentiments.
>> All
>> > it will take is one.
>> > ADS (Dennis)
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Roger Doc Kemp"
>> > To:
>> > Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
>> >
>> >
>> > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp"
>>
>> > >
>> > > This looks all to familiar. We need to be careful with this fighter
>> pilot
>> > > for a day thing as well as teaching our members ACM. You don't get to
>> be a
>> > > Fangs hanging, hair on fire, balls on your forehead fighter pilot in
>> > > a
>> day
>> > > or a few three day weekends for that matter. It takes us 18 MO. to
>> > > mint
>> a
>> > > steely eyed young fledgling fighter pilot (wing man). That is with
>> > > "clubbing the baby seals" 5 days a week for 24 weeks. That includes
>> giving
>> > > them a Friday night off at the "big house for Crud, chasing bar
>> > > flies,
>> bat
>> > > hangings, and in general killing brain cells" to blow off steam.
>> > > Yeah, I
>> > > know it only takes about 3 weeks to teach the baby seal to
>> > > proficiently
>> > > fly
>> > > the plane and the rest is learning to employ the A/C as a weapon.
>> > > We are not going to train our RPA members to fly ACM in 3 day weekend
>> > > clinics and achieve any level of proficiency or safety. Then send
>> "Bubba"
>> > > to his home drone to demonstrate to his buds what he learned having
>> > > no
>> > > clue
>> > > as to what Rolling G is, what the physiology of G's entail, or what
>> stress
>> > > he is introducing his already stressed wing spare to. It is a receipt
>> for
>> > > disaster. That will not be good for the rest of the YAK community,
>> > > particularly here where travel stops between the east and west coast
>> > > and
>> > > only 5% of us have a passport.
>> > > For that matter, I personally am not for introducing John Q public to
>> ACM.
>> > > Wonder how many times these blokes have had to clean the trunk out
>> > > after
>> > > the pax puked all over himself and the airplane. I know for a fact
>> > > that
>> > > really pisses a crew chief off.
>> > > But since we already have someone out there doing this, we now have a
>> > > barometer to see how long it will take to shuck a wing off a CJ. A
>> > > cold
>> > > thought I know, but ....
>> > > Doc
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >> [Original Message]
>> > >> From: Graeme Frew
>> > >> To:
>> > >> Date: 6/22/2005 6:46:40 PM
>> > >> Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
>> > >>
>> > >> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Graeme Frew"
>> > >>
>> > >> All good info. I'm told that our dear old BAC Strikemasters used to
>> work
>> > > on
>> > >> a Fatigue Index. 80 FIs got you a major servicing. A sortie
>> > >> involving
>> acm
>> > >> and low level in a howling westerly over NZ's terrain burned up 0.8
>> > >> FI.
>> > >> And to completely ruin your day check out what they are doing with
>> > > Nanchangs
=== message truncated ===
---------------------------------
Message 2
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jon Boede" <jon@email.net>
Does it make any sense for the RPA to say to the EAA that as a group we're
not so wild about the idea of anybody doing ACM training in Red Star
flavored airplanes and that the level of assistance that the EAA offers in
helping people obtain commercial training exemptions in the aforementioned
experimental aircraft should reflect this?
Jon
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
> <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
>
> Yep! Sure was.
> Dennis
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ernest Martinez" <erniel29@gmail.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-6, T-34
>
>
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>>
>> Good article in the latest Warbirds magazine about the T-34's and
>> abuse from commercial operators.
>>
>> Ernie
>>
>> On 6/24/05, Jerry Painter <wild.blue@verizon.net> wrote:
>>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jerry Painter" <wild.blue@verizon.net>
>>>
>>>
>>> Ron,
>>>
>>> I agree with you completely. What I am advocating is a shared, central
>>> source of information about our airplanes so that full access to all
>>> technical and operating information is readily available. RPA seems
>>> like
>>> a
>>> reasonable custodian and outlet, whether by download or purchase. The
>>> first
>>> problem, as you note, is translation of the necessary documents. For
>>> better
>>> or worse it's not gonna be the FAA "helping" us.
>>>
>>> Right now all you have to do to start up a commercial "training"
>>> operation
>>> is go to the EAA website and obtain a certificate from them (EAA).
>>> Hey,
>>> I've got one myself. Great idea for "real" training in an Experimental
>>> airplane, but there's always someone...and the rest of us will pay when
>>> the
>>> doo hits the doorknob.
>>>
>>> We DO NOT want to wait until someone gets killed, especially if they
>>> are
>>> civilians on the ground or innocents who've paid for a thrill ride.
>>> That
>>> will only place us square in the news media and FAA crosshairs. We've
>>> been
>>> through that with the F-86 incident 35 years ago. Once is enough.
>>>
>>> Assuring "airworthiness" (small "a") and proper maintenance seems like
>>> a
>>> good place to start. Hair on fire and smokin' holes is great
>>> Hollywood,
>>> but
>>> poor reality, especially if you have to pay the bill. Of course, you
>>> can
>>> get killed straight and level, too.
>>>
>>> Jerry Painter
>>>
>>>
>>> =09
>>> ">
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 3
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
I support your suggestion Jon. Should we have a similar situation with one
of our aircraft, the FAA would not hesitate for a moment to issue an
emergency AD for the type aircraft involved. And being Experimental has no
bearing on whether they can or will issue an AD. All it will take is one
and then the relatively low insurance costs will go right out the window.
Not to mention the cost of doing a mandatory dye penetrant inspection.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Boede" <jon@email.net>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-6, T-34
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jon Boede" <jon@email.net>
>
> Does it make any sense for the RPA to say to the EAA that as a group we're
> not so wild about the idea of anybody doing ACM training in Red Star
> flavored airplanes and that the level of assistance that the EAA offers in
> helping people obtain commercial training exemptions in the aforementioned
> experimental aircraft should reflect this?
>
> Jon
>
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
>> <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
>>
>> Yep! Sure was.
>> Dennis
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Ernest Martinez" <erniel29@gmail.com>
>> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-6, T-34
>>
>>
>>> --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>>>
>>> Good article in the latest Warbirds magazine about the T-34's and
>>> abuse from commercial operators.
>>>
>>> Ernie
>>>
>>> On 6/24/05, Jerry Painter <wild.blue@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jerry Painter" <wild.blue@verizon.net>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ron,
>>>>
>>>> I agree with you completely. What I am advocating is a shared, central
>>>> source of information about our airplanes so that full access to all
>>>> technical and operating information is readily available. RPA seems
>>>> like
>>>> a
>>>> reasonable custodian and outlet, whether by download or purchase. The
>>>> first
>>>> problem, as you note, is translation of the necessary documents. For
>>>> better
>>>> or worse it's not gonna be the FAA "helping" us.
>>>>
>>>> Right now all you have to do to start up a commercial "training"
>>>> operation
>>>> is go to the EAA website and obtain a certificate from them (EAA).
>>>> Hey,
>>>> I've got one myself. Great idea for "real" training in an Experimental
>>>> airplane, but there's always someone...and the rest of us will pay when
>>>> the
>>>> doo hits the doorknob.
>>>>
>>>> We DO NOT want to wait until someone gets killed, especially if they
>>>> are
>>>> civilians on the ground or innocents who've paid for a thrill ride.
>>>> That
>>>> will only place us square in the news media and FAA crosshairs. We've
>>>> been
>>>> through that with the F-86 incident 35 years ago. Once is enough.
>>>>
>>>> Assuring "airworthiness" (small "a") and proper maintenance seems like
>>>> a
>>>> good place to start. Hair on fire and smokin' holes is great
>>>> Hollywood,
>>>> but
>>>> poor reality, especially if you have to pay the bill. Of course, you
>>>> can
>>>> get killed straight and level, too.
>>>>
>>>> Jerry Painter
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> =09
>>>> ">
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 4
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
At least ours only requires 8 bolts :)
Ernie
On 6/26/05, A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
>
> I support your suggestion Jon. Should we have a similar situation with one
> of our aircraft, the FAA would not hesitate for a moment to issue an
> emergency AD for the type aircraft involved. And being Experimental has no
> bearing on whether they can or will issue an AD. All it will take is one
> and then the relatively low insurance costs will go right out the window.
> Not to mention the cost of doing a mandatory dye penetrant inspection.
> Dennis
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jon Boede" <jon@email.net>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-6, T-34
>
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jon Boede" <jon@email.net>
> >
> > Does it make any sense for the RPA to say to the EAA that as a group we're
> > not so wild about the idea of anybody doing ACM training in Red Star
> > flavored airplanes and that the level of assistance that the EAA offers in
> > helping people obtain commercial training exemptions in the aforementioned
> > experimental aircraft should reflect this?
> >
> > Jon
> >
> >> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
> >> <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
> >>
> >> Yep! Sure was.
> >> Dennis
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Ernest Martinez" <erniel29@gmail.com>
> >> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> >> Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-6, T-34
> >>
> >>
> >>> --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
> >>>
> >>> Good article in the latest Warbirds magazine about the T-34's and
> >>> abuse from commercial operators.
> >>>
> >>> Ernie
> >>>
> >>> On 6/24/05, Jerry Painter <wild.blue@verizon.net> wrote:
> >>>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jerry Painter" <wild.blue@verizon.net>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Ron,
> >>>>
> >>>> I agree with you completely. What I am advocating is a shared, central
> >>>> source of information about our airplanes so that full access to all
> >>>> technical and operating information is readily available. RPA seems
> >>>> like
> >>>> a
> >>>> reasonable custodian and outlet, whether by download or purchase. The
> >>>> first
> >>>> problem, as you note, is translation of the necessary documents. For
> >>>> better
> >>>> or worse it's not gonna be the FAA "helping" us.
> >>>>
> >>>> Right now all you have to do to start up a commercial "training"
> >>>> operation
> >>>> is go to the EAA website and obtain a certificate from them (EAA).
> >>>> Hey,
> >>>> I've got one myself. Great idea for "real" training in an Experimental
> >>>> airplane, but there's always someone...and the rest of us will pay when
> >>>> the
> >>>> doo hits the doorknob.
> >>>>
> >>>> We DO NOT want to wait until someone gets killed, especially if they
> >>>> are
> >>>> civilians on the ground or innocents who've paid for a thrill ride.
> >>>> That
> >>>> will only place us square in the news media and FAA crosshairs. We've
> >>>> been
> >>>> through that with the F-86 incident 35 years ago. Once is enough.
> >>>>
> >>>> Assuring "airworthiness" (small "a") and proper maintenance seems like
> >>>> a
> >>>> good place to start. Hair on fire and smokin' holes is great
> >>>> Hollywood,
> >>>> but
> >>>> poor reality, especially if you have to pay the bill. Of course, you
> >>>> can
> >>>> get killed straight and level, too.
> >>>>
> >>>> Jerry Painter
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> =09
> >>>> ">
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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|
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Walter Lannon" <wlannon@cablerocket.com>
Dennis, Ernie, et al ----
Just hope that there is no such situation arising with the CJ.
It is probably highly unlikely that the FAA would even consider issuing an
AWD. It does not carry a US (or any other) type certificate, they have no
technical info. on it and the potential liability would deter them if
nothing else did.
Their action would be much simpler. Grounded, permanantly, period.
There may only be 8 bolts attaching the wing but if a specific area of the
center section spars should require a detail NDT inspection it may very well
be necessary to de-mate the fuselage and center section. Inspection access
is abysmal. At restoration I do as close as possible to a 100% spar flange
inspection. This requires removal of the oil cooler air duct and other
components and, after that, it usually takes at least a full day to get
everything clean enough for the inspection.
I advise my customers to limit "G" loading to + 4, - 1 and + 3 in turning.
Walt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ernest Martinez" <erniel29@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-6, T-34
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>
> At least ours only requires 8 bolts :)
>
> Ernie
>
> On 6/26/05, A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
>> <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
>>
>> I support your suggestion Jon. Should we have a similar situation with
>> one
>> of our aircraft, the FAA would not hesitate for a moment to issue an
>> emergency AD for the type aircraft involved. And being Experimental has
>> no
>> bearing on whether they can or will issue an AD. All it will take is one
>> and then the relatively low insurance costs will go right out the window.
>> Not to mention the cost of doing a mandatory dye penetrant inspection.
>> Dennis
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jon Boede" <jon@email.net>
>> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-6, T-34
>>
>>
>> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jon Boede" <jon@email.net>
>> >
>> > Does it make any sense for the RPA to say to the EAA that as a group
>> > we're
>> > not so wild about the idea of anybody doing ACM training in Red Star
>> > flavored airplanes and that the level of assistance that the EAA offers
>> > in
>> > helping people obtain commercial training exemptions in the
>> > aforementioned
>> > experimental aircraft should reflect this?
>> >
>> > Jon
>> >
>> >> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
>> >> <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
>> >>
>> >> Yep! Sure was.
>> >> Dennis
>> >>
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: "Ernest Martinez" <erniel29@gmail.com>
>> >> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>> >> Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-6, T-34
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>> >>>
>> >>> Good article in the latest Warbirds magazine about the T-34's and
>> >>> abuse from commercial operators.
>> >>>
>> >>> Ernie
>> >>>
>> >>> On 6/24/05, Jerry Painter <wild.blue@verizon.net> wrote:
>> >>>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jerry Painter"
>> >>>> <wild.blue@verizon.net>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Ron,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I agree with you completely. What I am advocating is a shared,
>> >>>> central
>> >>>> source of information about our airplanes so that full access to all
>> >>>> technical and operating information is readily available. RPA seems
>> >>>> like
>> >>>> a
>> >>>> reasonable custodian and outlet, whether by download or purchase.
>> >>>> The
>> >>>> first
>> >>>> problem, as you note, is translation of the necessary documents.
>> >>>> For
>> >>>> better
>> >>>> or worse it's not gonna be the FAA "helping" us.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Right now all you have to do to start up a commercial "training"
>> >>>> operation
>> >>>> is go to the EAA website and obtain a certificate from them (EAA).
>> >>>> Hey,
>> >>>> I've got one myself. Great idea for "real" training in an
>> >>>> Experimental
>> >>>> airplane, but there's always someone...and the rest of us will pay
>> >>>> when
>> >>>> the
>> >>>> doo hits the doorknob.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> We DO NOT want to wait until someone gets killed, especially if they
>> >>>> are
>> >>>> civilians on the ground or innocents who've paid for a thrill ride.
>> >>>> That
>> >>>> will only place us square in the news media and FAA crosshairs.
>> >>>> We've
>> >>>> been
>> >>>> through that with the F-86 incident 35 years ago. Once is enough.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Assuring "airworthiness" (small "a") and proper maintenance seems
>> >>>> like
>> >>>> a
>> >>>> good place to start. Hair on fire and smokin' holes is great
>> >>>> Hollywood,
>> >>>> but
>> >>>> poor reality, especially if you have to pay the bill. Of course,
>> >>>> you
>> >>>> can
>> >>>> get killed straight and level, too.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Jerry Painter
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> =09
>> >>>> ">
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 6
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|
--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
I've stopped doing rolling G altogether. Straight pulls, unload then bank.
Ernie
On 6/26/05, Walter Lannon <wlannon@cablerocket.com> wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Walter Lannon" <wlannon@cablerocket.com>
>
> Dennis, Ernie, et al ----
>
> Just hope that there is no such situation arising with the CJ.
> It is probably highly unlikely that the FAA would even consider issuing an
> AWD. It does not carry a US (or any other) type certificate, they have no
> technical info. on it and the potential liability would deter them if
> nothing else did.
> Their action would be much simpler. Grounded, permanantly, period.
>
> There may only be 8 bolts attaching the wing but if a specific area of the
> center section spars should require a detail NDT inspection it may very well
> be necessary to de-mate the fuselage and center section. Inspection access
> is abysmal. At restoration I do as close as possible to a 100% spar flange
> inspection. This requires removal of the oil cooler air duct and other
> components and, after that, it usually takes at least a full day to get
> everything clean enough for the inspection.
>
> I advise my customers to limit "G" loading to + 4, - 1 and + 3 in turning.
>
> Walt
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ernest Martinez" <erniel29@gmail.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-6, T-34
>
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
> >
> > At least ours only requires 8 bolts :)
> >
> > Ernie
> >
> > On 6/26/05, A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
> >> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
> >> <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
> >>
> >> I support your suggestion Jon. Should we have a similar situation with
> >> one
> >> of our aircraft, the FAA would not hesitate for a moment to issue an
> >> emergency AD for the type aircraft involved. And being Experimental has
> >> no
> >> bearing on whether they can or will issue an AD. All it will take is one
> >> and then the relatively low insurance costs will go right out the window.
> >> Not to mention the cost of doing a mandatory dye penetrant inspection.
> >> Dennis
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Jon Boede" <jon@email.net>
> >> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> >> Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-6, T-34
> >>
> >>
> >> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jon Boede" <jon@email.net>
> >> >
> >> > Does it make any sense for the RPA to say to the EAA that as a group
> >> > we're
> >> > not so wild about the idea of anybody doing ACM training in Red Star
> >> > flavored airplanes and that the level of assistance that the EAA offers
> >> > in
> >> > helping people obtain commercial training exemptions in the
> >> > aforementioned
> >> > experimental aircraft should reflect this?
> >> >
> >> > Jon
> >> >
> >> >> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
> >> >> <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
> >> >>
> >> >> Yep! Sure was.
> >> >> Dennis
> >> >>
> >> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> >> From: "Ernest Martinez" <erniel29@gmail.com>
> >> >> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> >> >> Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-6, T-34
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>> --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Good article in the latest Warbirds magazine about the T-34's and
> >> >>> abuse from commercial operators.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Ernie
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On 6/24/05, Jerry Painter <wild.blue@verizon.net> wrote:
> >> >>>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jerry Painter"
> >> >>>> <wild.blue@verizon.net>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Ron,
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> I agree with you completely. What I am advocating is a shared,
> >> >>>> central
> >> >>>> source of information about our airplanes so that full access to all
> >> >>>> technical and operating information is readily available. RPA seems
> >> >>>> like
> >> >>>> a
> >> >>>> reasonable custodian and outlet, whether by download or purchase.
> >> >>>> The
> >> >>>> first
> >> >>>> problem, as you note, is translation of the necessary documents.
> >> >>>> For
> >> >>>> better
> >> >>>> or worse it's not gonna be the FAA "helping" us.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Right now all you have to do to start up a commercial "training"
> >> >>>> operation
> >> >>>> is go to the EAA website and obtain a certificate from them (EAA).
> >> >>>> Hey,
> >> >>>> I've got one myself. Great idea for "real" training in an
> >> >>>> Experimental
> >> >>>> airplane, but there's always someone...and the rest of us will pay
> >> >>>> when
> >> >>>> the
> >> >>>> doo hits the doorknob.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> We DO NOT want to wait until someone gets killed, especially if they
> >> >>>> are
> >> >>>> civilians on the ground or innocents who've paid for a thrill ride.
> >> >>>> That
> >> >>>> will only place us square in the news media and FAA crosshairs.
> >> >>>> We've
> >> >>>> been
> >> >>>> through that with the F-86 incident 35 years ago. Once is enough.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Assuring "airworthiness" (small "a") and proper maintenance seems
> >> >>>> like
> >> >>>> a
> >> >>>> good place to start. Hair on fire and smokin' holes is great
> >> >>>> Hollywood,
> >> >>>> but
> >> >>>> poor reality, especially if you have to pay the bill. Of course,
> >> >>>> you
> >> >>>> can
> >> >>>> get killed straight and level, too.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Jerry Painter
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> =09
> >> >>>> ">
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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|
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
Your point is well taken Walt. That would be catastrophic.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Lannon" <wlannon@cablerocket.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-6, T-34
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Walter Lannon" <wlannon@cablerocket.com>
>
> Dennis, Ernie, et al ----
>
> Just hope that there is no such situation arising with the CJ.
> It is probably highly unlikely that the FAA would even consider issuing an
> AWD. It does not carry a US (or any other) type certificate, they have no
> technical info. on it and the potential liability would deter them if
> nothing else did.
> Their action would be much simpler. Grounded, permanantly, period.
>
> There may only be 8 bolts attaching the wing but if a specific area of the
> center section spars should require a detail NDT inspection it may very
> well
> be necessary to de-mate the fuselage and center section. Inspection access
> is abysmal. At restoration I do as close as possible to a 100% spar flange
> inspection. This requires removal of the oil cooler air duct and other
> components and, after that, it usually takes at least a full day to get
> everything clean enough for the inspection.
>
> I advise my customers to limit "G" loading to + 4, - 1 and + 3 in turning.
>
> Walt
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ernest Martinez" <erniel29@gmail.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-6, T-34
>
>
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>>
>> At least ours only requires 8 bolts :)
>>
>> Ernie
>>
>> On 6/26/05, A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
>>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
>>> <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
>>>
>>> I support your suggestion Jon. Should we have a similar situation with
>>> one
>>> of our aircraft, the FAA would not hesitate for a moment to issue an
>>> emergency AD for the type aircraft involved. And being Experimental has
>>> no
>>> bearing on whether they can or will issue an AD. All it will take is
>>> one
>>> and then the relatively low insurance costs will go right out the
>>> window.
>>> Not to mention the cost of doing a mandatory dye penetrant inspection.
>>> Dennis
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Jon Boede" <jon@email.net>
>>> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-6, T-34
>>>
>>>
>>> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jon Boede" <jon@email.net>
>>> >
>>> > Does it make any sense for the RPA to say to the EAA that as a group
>>> > we're
>>> > not so wild about the idea of anybody doing ACM training in Red Star
>>> > flavored airplanes and that the level of assistance that the EAA
>>> > offers
>>> > in
>>> > helping people obtain commercial training exemptions in the
>>> > aforementioned
>>> > experimental aircraft should reflect this?
>>> >
>>> > Jon
>>> >
>>> >> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
>>> >> <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
>>> >>
>>> >> Yep! Sure was.
>>> >> Dennis
>>> >>
>>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>>> >> From: "Ernest Martinez" <erniel29@gmail.com>
>>> >> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>>> >> Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-6, T-34
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>> --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Good article in the latest Warbirds magazine about the T-34's and
>>> >>> abuse from commercial operators.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Ernie
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On 6/24/05, Jerry Painter <wild.blue@verizon.net> wrote:
>>> >>>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jerry Painter"
>>> >>>> <wild.blue@verizon.net>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Ron,
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> I agree with you completely. What I am advocating is a shared,
>>> >>>> central
>>> >>>> source of information about our airplanes so that full access to
>>> >>>> all
>>> >>>> technical and operating information is readily available. RPA
>>> >>>> seems
>>> >>>> like
>>> >>>> a
>>> >>>> reasonable custodian and outlet, whether by download or purchase.
>>> >>>> The
>>> >>>> first
>>> >>>> problem, as you note, is translation of the necessary documents.
>>> >>>> For
>>> >>>> better
>>> >>>> or worse it's not gonna be the FAA "helping" us.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Right now all you have to do to start up a commercial "training"
>>> >>>> operation
>>> >>>> is go to the EAA website and obtain a certificate from them (EAA).
>>> >>>> Hey,
>>> >>>> I've got one myself. Great idea for "real" training in an
>>> >>>> Experimental
>>> >>>> airplane, but there's always someone...and the rest of us will pay
>>> >>>> when
>>> >>>> the
>>> >>>> doo hits the doorknob.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> We DO NOT want to wait until someone gets killed, especially if
>>> >>>> they
>>> >>>> are
>>> >>>> civilians on the ground or innocents who've paid for a thrill ride.
>>> >>>> That
>>> >>>> will only place us square in the news media and FAA crosshairs.
>>> >>>> We've
>>> >>>> been
>>> >>>> through that with the F-86 incident 35 years ago. Once is enough.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Assuring "airworthiness" (small "a") and proper maintenance seems
>>> >>>> like
>>> >>>> a
>>> >>>> good place to start. Hair on fire and smokin' holes is great
>>> >>>> Hollywood,
>>> >>>> but
>>> >>>> poor reality, especially if you have to pay the bill. Of course,
>>> >>>> you
>>> >>>> can
>>> >>>> get killed straight and level, too.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Jerry Painter
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> =09
>>> >>>> ">
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
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