Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:25 AM - Re: Re: Smoke systems/oil (Hans Oortman 1)
2. 06:09 AM - Re: Yak52 fuel tank leaks (A. Dennis Savarese)
3. 06:42 AM - Another Engine Out Landing (Desmor944@aol.com)
4. 08:19 AM - Re: Yak52 fuel tank leaks (the wades)
5. 08:29 AM - Re: Another Engine Out Landing (David Sproule)
6. 09:14 AM - Re: Another Engine Out Landing (doug sapp)
7. 09:31 AM - Re: Another Engine Out Landing (ByronMFox@aol.com)
8. 10:14 AM - Re: Another Engine Out Landing (Walter Lannon)
9. 03:04 PM - tragic loss (gena perevedentsev)
10. 03:09 PM - Engine oil and wifes tales (vectorwarbirds@aol.com)
11. 06:24 PM - Re: Engine oil and wifes tales (Craig Payne)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Smoke systems/oil |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Hans Oortman 1" <pa3arw@euronet.nl>
Barry,
Typical me as the flying Dutchman and non-american....well half "non
american" ....appearantly I don't know what "lol" stands for. I
apologize...you know when I lived and worked in the US one of the biggest
problems or challenges, what ever you wanna call it...was to fight what I
call the "non invented here syndrome"...I recognized a bit of that which
made react as I did....
just as an engine should be...
As for the oil...I don't think nowadays there is no such thing anymore as a
good or bad oil...just the right oil for the right application.
Keep flying safe Barry!
Hans
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] Namens barry
Verzonden: zondag 16 juli 2006 0:43
Aan: yak-list@matronics.com
Onderwerp: Yak-List: Re: Smoke systems/oil
--> Yak-List message posted by: "barry" <barry@flyredstar.org>
Hans, Hans, Hans....easy my friend. [Shocked] That's what the "LOL" was for
at the end of the sentence. The 985 and M14 line share similarities, but I
actually prefer the Russian brewed engines myself....easy to maintain and
bullet proof as engines can be. Adjust the valves on a 985 one time and
you'll really have an appreciation for the M14/Housai!
Also, debating which oil is the best is like debating which (keeping the
Russian theme here) Vodka is best...Aeroshell and Phillips have both proven
to be reliable and safe oils.
Cheers,
Barry
--------
Barry Hancock
Worldwide Warbirds, Inc.
www.worldwidewarbirds.com
www.cj6.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=47472#47472
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Yak52 fuel tank leaks |
Preston,
Leaks like the one you are describing are not common in the Yak 52.
Although I have seen a couple of leaking fuel tanks, all leaks were at a
seam. Your venting procedure is precisely the same procedure that most
all Yak 52 owners have learned to use. Except for the '90 models and up
(could be the '89 model and up too), which have a double vent line (one
for each tank) with 2 vent tubes protruding underneath the fuselage
instead of one, Yak 52's with 35-40 liters of fuel in both tanks sitting
in the sun will "puke" fuel overboard through the single vent tube.
It's just a poorly designed vent system which as I said, was redesigned
and greatly improved with the '90 model and up.
My thought is you simply have a second crack in one of the seams. You
may want to have all the seams rewelded when you pull the tank out for
repair.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: PHCarter@aol.com
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2006 7:21 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Yak52 fuel tank leaks
A year ago, flying back from OSH, I developed a fuel leak in my right
wing tank. Repaired it easy enough (crack across one of the reinforcing
beads along the bottom). Now a year later, I have developed another
leak (also the right tank). Have not jumped into repairing it yet, but
here is the question: Could I have a vent problem that is allowing the
tank to pressurize with summer heat, or as I fly, and cause these
cracks? In the summer, I leave my tank caps lose so pressure does not
build up (still waiting for a hanger, so outside 24/7), so I don't think
pressure is a problem. My tanks appear to vent properly and my Aux tank
pumps into my wing tanks properly, so I don't recognize any other
problem other then frequency tank cracks/leaks.
Are leaks like this common? (1 a year on average) How do I test that
my fuel vent is clear and open? Is there another source of this problem
I don't know about? As always, thanks for whatever insight you can
provide.
Preston Carter
Yak52 N6209F
Message 3
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| Subject: | Another Engine Out Landing |
Gang,
Here is a scenario to rival one of Jeff's EP of the Day thought provokers.
But no hypothetical; this happened last Tuesday evening. Aircraft is a stock
1985 CJ with Huosai engine.
Normal pre-flight, with sumps clear, half tanks, and 14 liters of oil.
Perfect for a planned half-hour flight around Cape Cod. About 15 minutes into
the
flight, and as I was turning to head back, the engine skipped a few beats as
though the mags had been switched off then back on. Engine seemed to be
running fine again, but since this was a first in five years of ownership, I headed
straight for home. Instrument scan looked normal except that fuel pressure
was about a needle width higher than usual. About a minute later, a slight
roughness develops, and manifold pressure drops a bit. Fuel pressure has now
increased from 0.5 kg/cm to 0.7. Oil pressure, oil temperature and CHT all still
normal. Add throttle and begin a gradual climb. Roughness increases so
suspecting an overly rich mixture try leaning without success. Full rich helps
a
bit, wobble pump doesn't. Engine starts surging as though plugs are fouling
and then clearing. Add more throttle.
Arrive over home field (5B6 - 2280' x 40') on a high downwind at 2300 feet
agl with engine very rough, missing intermittently, and near full throttle
position for 700 mm. Fuel pressure is now 0.9 kg/cm. All other indications still
normal. Figuring that I now have the field made no matter what, start to
reduce power slightly for descent and the engine quits. Spiral to 1500' agl abeam
the numbers, tight pattern at 160 kph, drop gear on short final, extend flap
crossing the tree line, and make uneventful landing. Turn off runway at the
fuel pumps in case I need fire extinguishers there. Prop finally stops
windmilling as I brake for the turn. Exit aircraft and notice oil streaming from
both exhaust stacks.
Walk home, get the golf cart, and tow the plane back to its hangar.
Now this is the part that has me scratching my head. Assuming fuel
contamination, sample the gascolator and get a tube full of ENGINE OIL! Have a
neighbor watch the now open gascolator drain while I operate the wobble pump, and
he
says that a couple of cups of oil came out before in turned into a thinner
black liquid. Sumped the header tank and it is black with oil. Wing tanks still
clear. Checked the oil tank and it is down about 4 liters in a half-hour.
Not much more than the usual amount of oil on the belly.
Yesterday's disassembly found oil in all fuel lines and the carburetor. The
only place I can think of where oil and fuel systems come together, and oil is
at the higher pressure is at the pumps. I removed the fuel pump, and the
cavity above the bearing was full of oil. Is this normal? Could a bad seal in
the oil pump have allowed high-pressure oil to force its way into the fuel
pump? Could a bad seal in the fuel pump have allowed the oil in if it is supposed
to be above the bearing under pressure? It does not appear that oil was
coming out of the fuel pump leak-off line.
Dennis, Doug, Walt and all; any thoughts? If this happened once, it can
happen again. What to look at next, and how to avoid a repeat?
Rich Desmond
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Yak52 fuel tank leaks |
Preston
I've had two leaks from what I would call oil canning cracks and
repaired both with a two part epoxy from loctite 9460 Hysol and
fiberglass cloth and the repairs have held for a couple years now. I
think the reason for my cracks are I do a lot of acro and pull 4-4.5 on
most outings or 0 lbs. at the top of a loop to 312 at the bottom and
straight and level 78 lbs, so I can see why it would oil can. The leaks
that I have repaired were found just after such an outing and in the
center bottom of the tank. My Yak is 1985 vintage it has two straps
holding each fuel tank in place I've seen newer models with three straps
holding the fuel tank in, which would really help stop the oil canning
in the center where my leaks were repaired. Its quite possible that the
older Yaks that were stressed to 5 gs had two straps and when the 7 g
spar mod came out and the boys and girls started pulling 7+ gs the
factory found that another strap solved the problem.
Bill Wade
N4450Y
----- Original Message -----
From: PHCarter@aol.com
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2006 8:21 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Yak52 fuel tank leaks
A year ago, flying back from OSH, I developed a fuel leak in my right
wing tank. Repaired it easy enough (crack across one of the reinforcing
beads along the bottom). Now a year later, I have developed another
leak (also the right tank). Have not jumped into repairing it yet, but
here is the question: Could I have a vent problem that is allowing the
tank to pressurize with summer heat, or as I fly, and cause these
cracks? In the summer, I leave my tank caps lose so pressure does not
build up (still waiting for a hanger, so outside 24/7), so I don't think
pressure is a problem. My tanks appear to vent properly and my Aux tank
pumps into my wing tanks properly, so I don't recognize any other
problem other then frequency tank cracks/leaks.
Are leaks like this common? (1 a year on average) How do I test that
my fuel vent is clear and open? Is there another source of this problem
I don't know about? As always, thanks for whatever insight you can
provide.
Preston Carter
Yak52 N6209F
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
No virus found in this incoming message.
7/11/2006
Message 5
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| Subject: | Another Engine Out Landing |
Rich
Is your oil dilution valve still on the firewall? I remove them from the
CJs I maintain/build for just this reason. Not to say that is your problem
but maybe? Just my 2cents.
David
_____
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Desmor944@aol.com
Sent: July 16, 2006 4:44 AM
Gang,
Here is a scenario to rival one of Jeff's EP of the Day thought provokers.
But no hypothetical; this happened last Tuesday evening. Aircraft is a
stock 1985 CJ with Huosai engine.
Normal pre-flight, with sumps clear, half tanks, and 14 liters of oil.
Perfect for a planned half-hour flight around Cape Cod. About 15 minutes
into the flight, and as I was turning to head back, the engine skipped a few
beats as though the mags had been switched off then back on. Engine seemed
to be running fine again, but since this was a first in five years of
ownership, I headed straight for home. Instrument scan looked normal except
that fuel pressure was about a needle width higher than usual. About a
minute later, a slight roughness develops, and manifold pressure drops a
bit. Fuel pressure has now increased from 0.5 kg/cm to 0.7. Oil pressure,
oil temperature and CHT all still normal. Add throttle and begin a gradual
climb. Roughness increases so suspecting an overly rich mixture try leaning
without success. Full rich helps a bit, wobble pump doesn't. Engine starts
surging as though plugs are fouling and then clearing. Add more throttle.
Arrive over home field (5B6 - 2280' x 40') on a high downwind at 2300 feet
agl with engine very rough, missing intermittently, and near full throttle
position for 700 mm. Fuel pressure is now 0.9 kg/cm. All other indications
still normal. Figuring that I now have the field made no matter what, start
to reduce power slightly for descent and the engine quits. Spiral to 1500'
agl abeam the numbers, tight pattern at 160 kph, drop gear on short final,
extend flap crossing the tree line, and make uneventful landing. Turn off
runway at the fuel pumps in case I need fire extinguishers there. Prop
finally stops windmilling as I brake for the turn. Exit aircraft and notice
oil streaming from both exhaust stacks.
Walk home, get the golf cart, and tow the plane back to its hangar.
Now this is the part that has me scratching my head. Assuming fuel
contamination, sample the gascolator and get a tube full of ENGINE OIL!
Have a neighbor watch the now open gascolator drain while I operate the
wobble pump, and he says that a couple of cups of oil came out before in
turned into a thinner black liquid. Sumped the header tank and it is black
with oil. Wing tanks still clear. Checked the oil tank and it is down
about 4 liters in a half-hour. Not much more than the usual amount of oil
on the belly.
Yesterday's disassembly found oil in all fuel lines and the carburetor. The
only place I can think of where oil and fuel systems come together, and oil
is at the higher pressure is at the pumps. I removed the fuel pump, and the
cavity above the bearing was full of oil. Is this normal? Could a bad seal
in the oil pump have allowed high-pressure oil to force its way into the
fuel pump? Could a bad seal in the fuel pump have allowed the oil in if it
is supposed to be above the bearing under pressure? It does not appear that
oil was coming out of the fuel pump leak-off line.
Dennis, Doug, Walt and all; any thoughts? If this happened once, it can
happen again. What to look at next, and how to avoid a repeat?
Rich Desmond
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
--
Message 6
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| Subject: | Another Engine Out Landing |
Has your oil dilution system be properly removed/disabled? Is it possible
that oil is reaching the fuel system via this point? Yes I know it's going
the wrong way but I have seen some crazy plumbing. Just a thought.
Was there oil in the fuel line going TO the pump? I would bet not.
While it is possible for the oil to migrate into the fuel via the shared
pump drive I have never seen it before. Course I had never seen a HS6A
totally pack up in flight before either! A simple test might be to remove
the oil and fuel pump in one unit, cap off the "out go" side and pressurize
the "in" side fitting fuel pump with LOW pressure shop air and submerge the
unit in water, if you are getting bubbles out of the oil pump you have found
your problem.
Look at your vol #3 Huosai engine IPB on page 179, Fig 16-5-3. Note # 7,
which is P/N 14.211.91 and in the translated version of the IPB is called a
"check valve" (looks like a seal in the dwg). Page 107 will give you a
better idea about the mating of the two units. Page 167 shows the blow up
of the fuel pump and it's seals.
Let me know what you find.
I plan to bring the CJ to OMK on Tuesday and start tearing down the engine,
my gut feeling is that I will not have to go further than the nose case to
find what failed.
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Desmor944@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2006 4:44 AM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Yak-List: Another Engine Out Landing
Gang,
Here is a scenario to rival one of Jeff's EP of the Day thought provokers.
But no hypothetical; this happened last Tuesday evening. Aircraft is a
stock 1985 CJ with Huosai engine.
Normal pre-flight, with sumps clear, half tanks, and 14 liters of oil.
Perfect for a planned half-hour flight around Cape Cod. About 15 minutes
into the flight, and as I was turning to head back, the engine skipped a few
beats as though the mags had been switched off then back on. Engine seemed
to be running fine again, but since this was a first in five years of
ownership, I headed straight for home. Instrument scan looked normal except
that fuel pressure was about a needle width higher than usual. About a
minute later, a slight roughness develops, and manifold pressure drops a
bit. Fuel pressure has now increased from 0.5 kg/cm to 0.7. Oil pressure,
oil temperature and CHT all still normal. Add throttle and begin a gradual
climb. Roughness increases so suspecting an overly rich mixture try leaning
without success. Full rich helps a bit, wobble pump doesn't. Engine starts
surging as though plugs are fouling and then clearing. Add more throttle.
Arrive over home field (5B6 - 2280' x 40') on a high downwind at 2300 feet
agl with engine very rough, missing intermittently, and near full throttle
position for 700 mm. Fuel pressure is now 0.9 kg/cm. All other indications
still normal. Figuring that I now have the field made no matter what, start
to reduce power slightly for descent and the engine quits. Spiral to 1500'
agl abeam the numbers, tight pattern at 160 kph, drop gear on short final,
extend flap crossing the tree line, and make uneventful landing. Turn off
runway at the fuel pumps in case I need fire extinguishers there. Prop
finally stops windmilling as I brake for the turn. Exit aircraft and notice
oil streaming from both exhaust stacks.
Walk home, get the golf cart, and tow the plane back to its hangar.
Now this is the part that has me scratching my head. Assuming fuel
contamination, sample the gascolator and get a tube full of ENGINE OIL!
Have a neighbor watch the now open gascolator drain while I operate the
wobble pump, and he says that a couple of cups of oil came out before in
turned into a thinner black liquid. Sumped the header tank and it is black
with oil. Wing tanks still clear. Checked the oil tank and it is down
about 4 liters in a half-hour. Not much more than the usual amount of oil
on the belly.
Yesterday's disassembly found oil in all fuel lines and the carburetor.
The only place I can think of where oil and fuel systems come together, and
oil is at the higher pressure is at the pumps. I removed the fuel pump, and
the cavity above the bearing was full of oil. Is this normal? Could a bad
seal in the oil pump have allowed high-pressure oil to force its way into
the fuel pump? Could a bad seal in the fuel pump have allowed the oil in if
it is supposed to be above the bearing under pressure? It does not appear
that oil was coming out of the fuel pump leak-off line.
Dennis, Doug, Walt and all; any thoughts? If this happened once, it can
happen again. What to look at next, and how to avoid a repeat?
Rich Desmond
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Another Engine Out Landing |
Glad to hear you landed safely, Rich. Please keep us informed as you sort
through this problem. Thanks, Blitz
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Another Engine Out Landing |
Rich;
Very Interesting!!
As David has mentioned there is another interface point between fuel and
oil. If the oil dilution system is left installed there is a potential
for failure. I too remove this system entirely.
However in reading your post incident analysis it appears most likely
that the source of the problem is where you found it, the oil pump /
fuel pump common drive arrangement.
I think you are on the right track. Will look at the systems on Monday
and let you know if anything comes to mind.
Walt
----- Original Message -----
From: Desmor944@aol.com
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2006 4:43 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Another Engine Out Landing
Gang,
Here is a scenario to rival one of Jeff's EP of the Day thought
provokers. But no hypothetical; this happened last Tuesday evening.
Aircraft is a stock 1985 CJ with Huosai engine.
Normal pre-flight, with sumps clear, half tanks, and 14 liters of oil.
Perfect for a planned half-hour flight around Cape Cod. About 15
minutes into the flight, and as I was turning to head back, the engine
skipped a few beats as though the mags had been switched off then back
on. Engine seemed to be running fine again, but since this was a first
in five years of ownership, I headed straight for home. Instrument scan
looked normal except that fuel pressure was about a needle width higher
than usual. About a minute later, a slight roughness develops, and
manifold pressure drops a bit. Fuel pressure has now increased from 0.5
kg/cm to 0.7. Oil pressure, oil temperature and CHT all still normal.
Add throttle and begin a gradual climb. Roughness increases so
suspecting an overly rich mixture try leaning without success. Full
rich helps a bit, wobble pump doesn't. Engine starts surging as though
plugs are fouling and then clearing. Add more throttle.
Arrive over home field (5B6 - 2280' x 40') on a high downwind at 2300
feet agl with engine very rough, missing intermittently, and near full
throttle position for 700 mm. Fuel pressure is now 0.9 kg/cm. All
other indications still normal. Figuring that I now have the field made
no matter what, start to reduce power slightly for descent and the
engine quits. Spiral to 1500' agl abeam the numbers, tight pattern at
160 kph, drop gear on short final, extend flap crossing the tree line,
and make uneventful landing. Turn off runway at the fuel pumps in case
I need fire extinguishers there. Prop finally stops windmilling as I
brake for the turn. Exit aircraft and notice oil streaming from both
exhaust stacks.
Walk home, get the golf cart, and tow the plane back to its hangar.
Now this is the part that has me scratching my head. Assuming fuel
contamination, sample the gascolator and get a tube full of ENGINE OIL!
Have a neighbor watch the now open gascolator drain while I operate the
wobble pump, and he says that a couple of cups of oil came out before in
turned into a thinner black liquid. Sumped the header tank and it is
black with oil. Wing tanks still clear. Checked the oil tank and it is
down about 4 liters in a half-hour. Not much more than the usual amount
of oil on the belly.
Yesterday's disassembly found oil in all fuel lines and the
carburetor. The only place I can think of where oil and fuel systems
come together, and oil is at the higher pressure is at the pumps. I
removed the fuel pump, and the cavity above the bearing was full of oil.
Is this normal? Could a bad seal in the oil pump have allowed
high-pressure oil to force its way into the fuel pump? Could a bad seal
in the fuel pump have allowed the oil in if it is supposed to be above
the bearing under pressure? It does not appear that oil was coming out
of the fuel pump leak-off line.
Dennis, Doug, Walt and all; any thoughts? If this happened once, it
can happen again. What to look at next, and how to avoid a repeat?
Rich Desmond
Message 9
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--> Yak-List message posted by: gena perevedentsev <genaperevedent@yahoo.co.uk>
Aleksandr Spigovski, for many years deputy coach of
Russian national aerobatics team, was killed in air
accident near Moscow. Yak-52 hit the ground shortly
after initiated 'go around'killing pilot and
passenger.
He was one of the best.
--- Yak-List Digest Server <yak-list@matronics.com>
wrote:
> *
>
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> Yak-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Sat
> 07/15/06: 11
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 04:08 AM - Re: Oil Confusion (Daniel
> Fortin)
> 2. 08:18 AM - Re: Oil Confusion (forrest
> johnson)
> 3. 10:00 AM - Re: OSH/MTW Schedule (Herb
> Coussons)
> 4. 10:25 AM - Re: Smoke systems/oil (Barry
> Hancock)
> 5. 10:40 AM - OSH Yak Forum (Barry Hancock)
> 6. 02:05 PM - Re: Re: Smoke systems/oil
> (tamara_b@telus.net)
> 7. 02:44 PM - Re: Re: Smoke systems/oil (Hans
> Oortman 1)
> 8. 03:44 PM - Re: Smoke systems/oil (barry)
> 9. 04:00 PM - trip to OSH/MTW
> (cjpilot710@aol.com)
> 10. 05:23 PM - Yak52 fuel tank leaks
> (PHCarter@aol.com)
> 11. 08:48 PM - Re: Yak52 fuel tank leaks
> (cjpilot710@aol.com)
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 04:08:10 AM PST US
> From: "Daniel Fortin" <fougapilot@hotmail.com>
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil Confusion
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Daniel Fortin"
> <fougapilot@hotmail.com>
>
> I run my M14 on Aeroshell W100. The Multi viscosity
> for me is not a problem
> since I mix it with W80 for the winter months and
> W120 for the few warm
> months. Since these Aeroshell oil are compatible, I
> can adjust my viscosity
> with the seasonal changes.
>
> I was told be George Coy a few years back when my
> mechanics put Aeroshell
> 15W50 in my CJ to flush it ASAP. The additive used
> for this oil (my
> understanding is it is the same additive that makes
> the + in the W100+) is
> not good for the compressor shaft of the M14 engine.
> Unfortunately, by the
> time I received this information, I already had
> 10hrs on the 15W50. Every
> time I purged the air snort valve, a foamy beige
> stuff would spit out
> instead of the usual mixture of moisture/air, which
> prompt me to ask
> questions. After I changed back to W100, all
> returned to normal within about
> 2 hrs of flying. About 50hrs of flying later, I had
> a compressor failure.
> Coincidence? Probably.
>
> I couldn't tell you if the CJ compressor is affected
> in the same manner then
> the M14, but I sure am glad to see my snort stuff
> back to normal.
>
> D
>
>
> >From: tamara_b@telus.net
> >To: yak-list@matronics.com
> >Subject: Yak-List: Oil Confusion
> >Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 18:39:39 -0700
> >
> >--> Yak-List message posted by: tamara_b@telus.net
> >
> >
> >Gentlemen,
> >
> >here comes again that so often
> >exhausted question about the right
> >oil for the Housai engine.
> >
> >I put in one year 200 hours on my
> >CJ and used like the previous owner
> >the Phillips 66 25-60 oil.
> >Now my new AME (who was raised
> >and trained in East Europe) told me to
> >not use the Phillips oil on those engines.
> >According to him, the Phillips oil is designed
> >for American Radial Engines and will do more
> >harm than good to the East-Bloc engines.
> >His recommendation is the Aeroshell W100 Plus,
> >the closest oil to the specs of Housai, M14 series,
> >M462RF, etc.
> >
> >What do you think, your opinion is much
> appreciated.
> >
> >cheers
> >
> >Elmar (C-FTKL)
> >
> >
> >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> >http://wiki.matronics.com
> >
> >
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 08:18:17 AM PST US
> From: "forrest johnson" <flushjohnson@charter.net>
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil Confusion
>
> any one out there using Automotive oil. What are the
> Pros & Cons. FLUSH
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: cjpilot710@aol.com
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 11:16 PM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil Confusion
>
>
> Whenever I use the multi grade oils, my engine
> (now 1,200 hours since
> new ) M-14p gets oil leaks. I've been using Mobil
> 100 or 120 since day
> one. I do know guys who really feel the multi
> grades are the best. I
> truly do not know.
> Pappy
>
>
> Gentlemen,
>
> here comes again that so often
> exhausted question about the right
> oil for the Housai engine.
>
> I put in one year 200 hours on my
> CJ and used like the previous owner
> the Phillips 66 25-60 oil.
> Now my new AME (who was raised
> and trained in East Europe) told me to
> not use the Phillips oil on those engines.
> According to him, the Phillips oil is designed
> for American Radial Engines and will do more
> harm than good to the East-Bloc engines.
> His recommendation is the Aeroshell W100 Plus,
>
=== message truncated ==
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Message 10
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| Subject: | Engine oil and wifes tales |
Just to help confuse matters we have been using Phillips XC25/60 Radial Engine
oil in both our M14P and Housai for over two years and 1000hrs. We have ADC oil
filters and have never seen anything but very small particles and carbon which
have diminished over time. We also do an oil analysis at every change and
have watched the particulates decline each and every time. This was not the
case with AeroShell, probably because of the hard starts in cold weather and the
long wait for the pressure to come up.
We also run electric pre-oilers and they would have a hard time pumping the cold
AeroShell through the engine. We see the oil pressure come up when using the
Phillips in less then five seconds every time.
If you are making metal you can rest assured it is NOT the oil you are using.
We have spoken at length with Phillips oil engineers and that is when we decided
to change from Shell to Phillips. The Phillips oil performs better in every
respect as it was specifically designed for radial engines of all types. Anyone
telling you otherwise is just spreading BS. Also of note was Phillips (as
well as AeroShell) caution to never add anything to their oils, ie: Marvel
Mystery, etc. It only degrades the oils ability to protect your engine. As
the Phillips engineer stated "why would we spend millions of dollars developing
a new modern oil and leave something out?"
Our engines of course start much much better when the weather is cold, and the
oil pressure comes up almost instantly, which as stated earlier by another Yaklister
is where almost all major wear starts.
Our advice is to not take all these old wives tales to heart and to seek out the
real data and compare it, then make a decision based on that.
Happy Flying!!
Vector Aviation
________________________________________________________________________
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Engine oil and wifes tales |
> As the Phillips engineer stated "why would we spend millions of dollars developing
> a new modern oil and leave something out?"
>
>
"WHY" the Engineer asks? Corporate BS perhaps. Bean-counters and marketing have
cheapened many good products over the years. Gotta leave room for next year's
"new and improved".
I'm not taking issue with the Phillips Multi-weight Radial oil because I don't
use it. I stick with what I was told at an OSH WB forum by a guy from Pacific
Airmotive that re-builds the old radials. "Use single weight oils". That being
said, all through WW-II, smart crew chiefs added MMO to get better results under
military operating conditions.
Cold weather starts are a real bitch here in Florida, I often have to wear my heavyweight
shorts and Tee shirts due to the extreme cold on my bare skin.
Another tip from these forums, DO NOT use automotive oils, they contain zinc and
sulfate compounds for better wear. These components leach away the thin Lead
coating on the master rod that is Silver plated. Once these compounds hit the
silver, the plating goes Tango Uniform and an engine seizure occurs.
All depends, I guess. Operating procedures may be the biggest variable.
Craig Payne
cpayne@joimail.com
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