Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:25 AM - Re: Updated Drawings (jnbolding1)
2. 06:16 AM - Re: updates & bent parts (Zed Smith)
3. 08:03 AM - Wheel fairings (Philip Condon)
4. 08:45 AM - Re: Re: updates & bent parts (Paul Moore)
5. 09:03 AM - Re: Re: updates & bent parts (N5SL)
6. 09:19 AM - Re: Updated Drawings (Gary Gower)
7. 10:06 AM - Re: Wheel fairings (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
8. 11:36 AM - Re: Re: updates & bent parts (kevinbonds)
9. 11:43 AM - ZAC reply (kevinbonds)
10. 11:54 AM - Re: Wheel fairings (Jim Pellien)
11. 03:08 PM - 601 wheel forks (alex trent)
12. 04:06 PM - Re: Wheel fairings (royt.or@netzero.com)
13. 04:21 PM - Re: Updated Drawings (Mike Fortunato)
14. 06:11 PM - Re: Wheel Fairings For 601XL (Dave VanLanen)
15. 06:52 PM - Re: Updated Drawings (Larry Martin)
16. 11:34 PM - Re: Wheel Fairings For 601XL (Lance Gingell)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Updated Drawings |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "jnbolding1" <jnbolding1@mail.ev1.net>
I've already fabbed the right wing ribs but not spar. I notice that
>the direction of the front flange on the RR's have changed. Can I just
>rebend the flanges the other way on the ones I have fabbed?
NO rebending allowed, use them on the other side. LOW&SLOW John
Message 2
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| Subject: | re: updates & bent parts |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith <zsmith3rd@earthlink.net>
If you will bend a piece of scrap aluminum as if it were a rib flange, then bend
it in the other direction (a 180 degree reversal) I would bet you'll see 'crazing'
or small cracks at, or in, the bend. As others have mentioned, re-bending
just isn't a good practice.
zed/701/r912/etc
do not archive
Message 3
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Philip Condon" <pcondon@mitre.org>
Vans aircraft has been selling a streamlined fairing for about 5 years now
that replaced the ones they sold before. The newer fairings are more
"submarine" shaped then traditional fairings and they do add 8 MPH over the
standard fairings. Everyone who uses the new fairings loves them
Message 4
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| Subject: | re: updates & bent parts |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Paul Moore" <pmoore505@msn.com>
The rib flange that mounts to the spar is bent so the top and bottom rear
rib rivet lines line up with the ones on the nose ribs. You could swap
right wing ribs with left ones, but then the other rib flanges will face
backward, That would affect other things like wing walk area, aileron bell
crank area, etc. Option two would be to move the rivet line position over
on the spar web so the top and bottom flanges line up with the nose ribs
again. This might cause problems at the rear spar, if you have that
pre-drilled, and possibly the aileron pushrod geometry. Another option
would be to use a piece of standard L material to add a spar flange to the
rear rib that points the right direction and either cut off or ignore the
original one.
Paul Moore
XL - O-200
Do not archive
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: re: updates & bent parts |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
So what you are saying is that Re-fried Beans and Twice-baked potatoes don't fall
under the the same rules as aluminum aircraft building?
Sorry Zed, It's been a slow day on the list and I didn't see the usual humor in
your email that I look forward to.
Scott Laughlin
N5SL (Reserved)
www.cooknwithgas.com
Planning, Scheming and Pondering
DO NOT ARCHIVE DO NOT ARCHIVE DO NOT ARCHIVE DO NOT ARCHIVE
Zed Smith <zsmith3rd@earthlink.net> wrote:
As others have mentioned, re-bending just isn't a good practice.
zed/701/r912/etc
do not archive
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Updated Drawings |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Mike,
I don't know why you are so concerned about the structural integrity of the Zenith
aircraft...
Most of the updates by ZAC are made looking for a better airplane and or better
understood construction instructions, remember that Mr Chris Heintz has more
than 30 years of experience only in the Zenith Aircraft designing, is something
that we should appreciate, is not easy to find in any kit or plans build
arplane, to have such a great person and his team at ZAC, practically over our
shoulder in all the building process, Been there done that.
One of the most important points in favor of the ZAC airplanes is that even if
you buy only a partial kit, you get FULL plans and instructions to build any part
or the whole plane if you mess up or need to repair something of the plane.
This GREAT bonus is difficult, if not impossible, to find in any other kit plane,
we have some rebuilding experience here in the list...
Other kit airplanes just get trashed because of the expensive it to get the factory
parts to rebuild (if the factory is still in bussiness), even in minor incidents,
if the factory is gone you are on your own without specific plans.
Before getting involved with building a ZAC Kit, we (my Father, Brother and Myself)
made our homework with several kits and plans built airplanes. The ZAC
planes won hands off, all incidents/accidents we could find were pilot error
or weather (well is pilot error also).
Another point that I don't want to forget is the safe and easy the ZAC aircraft
are to fly. I think that Mr. Heintz thought on all of us (pilots with less
than 35 - 50 hours a year experience) when designing his airplanes, The idea
is to enjoy the flight. Sure enough, the planes are not "fast", no Reno winners,
but we are not also Reno pilots :-)
The old people here say that men only fear the unknown, once they know the facts
they build confidence.
Now down off my soap box.
Saludos
Gary Gower.
"Fun flying begins the moment the wheels leave the strip. Not thinking how fast
we can get there... Where? Who cares. Gary Gower."
Mike Fortunato <rsq2424@yahoo.com> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Fortunato
> Any other problems I need to be aware of while
making
> the switch to the updated plans?
You'll likely have a tough time getting an answer to
that one. A lot depends on which version of the plans
you have now, but there are LOTS of revisions. I asked
the same question to ZAC, but never got a reply. My
main concern was which items are crucial to the safety
of the airframe. It would be great if they would
handle updates much like software, where some are
"critical". If you get an answer to that question,
please post the reply. Thanks!
Mike Fortunato
601XL
---------------------------------
Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour
Message 7
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Ya I found ZAC's fairing to add about ZERO MPH to the HDS.
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Philip
Condon
Subject: Zenith-List: Wheel fairings
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Philip Condon" <pcondon@mitre.org>
Vans aircraft has been selling a streamlined fairing for about 5 years
now that replaced the ones they sold before. The newer fairings are more
"submarine" shaped then traditional fairings and they do add 8 MPH over
the standard fairings. Everyone who uses the new fairings loves them
Message 8
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| Subject: | re: updates & bent parts |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" <kevinbonds@comcast.net>
Thanks Paul. Good Idea. Why didn't I think of that? Actually I did . . . and
then forgot. Funny how that happens.
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Corvair powered; Plans-building.
Empennage done; working on wings.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Moore
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: re: updates & bent parts
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Paul Moore" <pmoore505@msn.com>
Another option
would be to use a piece of standard L material to add a spar flange
Paul Moore
XL - O-200
Do not archive
Message 9
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1.72 MSGID_FROM_MTA_ID Message-Id for external message added locally
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" <kevinbonds@comcast.net>
Bellow is the reply I got from ZAC concerning my question about the drawing
updates. I will just cross that bridge when I come to it. If need be I will
add some L angle if there is some kind of interference with the current
location.
Kevin
> I am thinking of purchasing the
> update drawings. I would like the 15gal tank option. I've already
> fabbed the right wing ribs but not spar. I notice that the direction
> of the front flange on the RR's have changed. Can I just rebend the
> flanges the other way on the ones I have fabbed? Any other problems I
> need to be aware of while making the switch to the updated plans?
>
> Part: update drawings
>
> Model: ZODIAC CH 601, 5427
The direction of the spar flange on the rear ribs was changed to make the
flange direction the same on all the rear ribs (similar to RR#8). The reason
for the change was to simplify production tooling to press the rear ribs.
How the rear ribs are made is quite independent of the fuel tank.
Note: The rear ribs are attached through the spar web, the nose ribs are
attached to the nose rib angle 6W3-9.
Nick Heintz
Zenith Aircraft Company
support@zenithair.com
http://www.zenithair.com <http://www.zenithair.com/>
Technical Support Disclaimer: While we strive to ensure that the
advice/information provided through our support is correct, Zenith
Aircraft Company does not accept any responsibility for errors or
omissions. Any advice or information that Zenith Aircraft Company
gives you via any form of communication is not a guarantee that it
will correct your problem. It is only offered as assistance to you.
Zenith Aircraft Company will not be held responsible for any loss or
damage as a result of our advice or information supplied.
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Corvair powered;Plansbuilding.
Empenage done; working on wings.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Wheel fairings |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Pellien" <jim@pellien.com>
Phil,
Does the VANS fairing fit a 601XL? How much do they cost?
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: Philip Condon
Subject: Zenith-List: Wheel fairings
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Philip Condon" <pcondon@mitre.org>
Vans aircraft has been selling a streamlined fairing for about 5 years now
that replaced the ones they sold before. The newer fairings are more
"submarine" shaped then traditional fairings and they do add 8 MPH over the
standard fairings. Everyone who uses the new fairings loves them
Message 11
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: alex trent <atrent7@cogeco.ca>
Just completed a copy of Larry McFarland's fork bender with mods
according to Mark Townsend. Works like a charm.
Bent up a set of 2 in jig time, less than an hour.
alex t.
Zenith-List Digest Server wrote:
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>
> Zenith-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Wed 05/04/05:14
>
>
>Today's Message Index:
>----------------------
>
> 1. 03:35 AM - Wheel Fairings For 601XL (Grant Corriveau)
> 2. 06:27 AM - Re: Wheel Fairings For 601XL (Paul Moore)
> 3. 06:28 AM - Re: Anyone selling a CH 801 - kit or one finished and (Larry.Drake@atdf.com.flying??)
> 4. 07:28 AM - 601 time (john H)
> 5. 08:48 AM - Geometry 101 (Zed Smith)
> 6. 09:45 AM - CH 640 For Sale (Eric Parlow)
> 7. 09:45 AM - Re: Wheel Fairings For 601XL (Larry McFarland)
> 8. 10:08 AM - Re: Wheel Fairings For 601XL (Bryan Martin)
> 9. 12:25 PM - Updated Drawings (kevinbonds)
> 10. 02:01 PM - Re: Wheel Fairings For 601XL (Al Young)
> 11. 03:33 PM - Re: CH 640 For Sale (Scott Moser)
> 12. 04:55 PM - Re: Wheel Fairings For 601XL (Jeffrey Glasserow)
> 13. 05:57 PM - Re: Wheel Fairings For 601XL (Larry McFarland)
> 14. 09:04 PM - Re: Updated Drawings (Mike Fortunato)
>
>
>
>________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 03:35:02 AM PST US
>Subject: Zenith-List: Wheel Fairings For 601XL
>From: Grant Corriveau <grantc@ca.inter.net>
>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau <grantc@ca.inter.net>
>
>
>
>>Has anyone on the list found lighter, more streamlined fairings that can be
>>fitted to the 601XL tri-gear?
>>
>>
>
>The European dealers have a smaller, narrower version. I think I bought
>mine from the Czeck dealer (Chip Irwin?)... the kit was complete with all
>attachment hardware etc, and the pants are well made.
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Wheel fairings |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "royt.or@netzero.com" <royt.or@netzero.com>
Last fall the Van's RV-6 "pressure recovery" wheel fairings were $43 for the front
half and $70 for the rear half. PN CA157A and CA157B. No hardware included.
Dave New's 601 was in KitPlanes and Sport Aviation in early 2004. He was getting
130mph with a self build Subaru in a CH601HD? (I don't remember if HD or HDS)
tail dragger. Dave used RV-6 wheel fairing copies that were made 1 1/2 inches
taller to better fit the Zodiac wheels.
The Zenith wheel fairing on for my nose wheel increased N601RT cruise speed about
2 knots. No other fairings in use.
Installing RV wheel pants is next on my list of "to do" plane tasks after getting
my plane back in the air. (N601RT repairs have been completed, condition inspection
and return to flying should be VERY soon.)
Roy
N601RT: CH601HDS, nose gear, Rotax 912ULS, All electric, IFR equipped,
318.1hrs, 405 landings
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Updated Drawings |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Fortunato <rsq2424@yahoo.com>
> I don't know why you are so concerned about the
> structural integrity of the Zenith aircraft...
Well, let's see. I'm building a machine out of
aluminum that I plan to sit in, fly to various
altitudes, and do so with some degree of assurance
that the thing won't fall apart because of a change in
the plans! Now, maybe that's not an issue, and I
certainly hope it isn't, but I think it's perfectly
reasonable to ask the question. And I would ask the
same question about ANYTHING airplane manufacturer, be
it ZAC, Van's, or any others.
And by the way, if you read ZAC's response which Kevin
just posted, his last question didn't get answered as
I predicted. Hopefully, we can 'assume' (and you know
what they say about that word...) a non-response means
that there aren't any critical issues that were
changed.
No need to cheerlead ZAC -- it's indisputable that
Chris Heinz has a long track record. In fact, I didn't
say anything to the contrary. I continue to be amazed
at the cult-like responses when questioning something
ZAC does or doesn't do. Just because something is
good, doesn't mean that it can't be better. As my
father used to say, "Satisfaction is the first sign of
decay."
Mike F.
do not archive
Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour:
http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Wheel Fairings For 601XL |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave VanLanen" <davevanlanen@sbcglobal.net>
The RV's also use 5.00 X 5 main gear wheels, although they are Clevelands
(don't know if that makes a difference).
I e-mailed Van's to ask if they thought their fairings would work on the
XL. Gus Funnell replied that he thought the set they have for a flat gear
leg might work. He also said their front tire is a Lamb, which is slightly
smaller than 5.00 X 5, so I don't know if their nose wheel fairing would
fit. I was hoping that someone else on the list had already tried the RV
fairings.
Dave Van Lanen
Madison, WI
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Time: 10:08:04 AM PST US
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Wheel Fairings For 601XL
From: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
The XL uses 5 x 5.00 wheels.
on 5/4/05 12:43 PM, Larry McFarland at larrymc@qconline.com wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
>
> Dave,
> If the standard XL tri-gear uses the same Matco 4 x 8.00 wheels and
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Updated Drawings |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" <lrm@isp.com>
Yep, I like them too, obviously not as much as you.
You said "One of the most important points in favor of the ZAC airplanes is
that even if you buy only a partial kit, you get FULL plans and instructions
to build any part or the whole plane if you mess up or need to repair
something of the plane."
Not quite, you have to give them another $380 to get the full plans if you
don't buy the entire kit. You can buy any one's plans for that. I bought
every thing from them except the wings and they wouldn't come off that $380.
I almost didn't buy because of that, just principal. I figured if I spent
thousands of dollars with them the least they could do was give me the
instructions for the parts I was buying, take the wing part out, but they
wouldn't. That still hacks me off.
If they gave you the entire plans when you bought a partial kit, then they
owe me a refund.
Larry, N1345L www.angelfire.com/un/ch701
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Gower" <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Updated Drawings
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
>
> Mike,
>
> I don't know why you are so concerned about the structural integrity of
the Zenith aircraft...
>
> Most of the updates by ZAC are made looking for a better airplane and or
better understood construction instructions, remember that Mr Chris Heintz
has more than 30 years of experience only in the Zenith Aircraft designing,
is something that we should appreciate, is not easy to find in any kit or
plans build arplane, to have such a great person and his team at ZAC,
practically over our shoulder in all the building process, Been there done
that.
>
> One of the most important points in favor of the ZAC airplanes is that
even if you buy only a partial kit, you get FULL plans and instructions to
build any part or the whole plane if you mess up or need to repair something
of the plane.
> This GREAT bonus is difficult, if not impossible, to find in any other kit
plane, we have some rebuilding experience here in the list...
> Other kit airplanes just get trashed because of the expensive it to get
the factory parts to rebuild (if the factory is still in bussiness), even in
minor incidents, if the factory is gone you are on your own without specific
plans.
>
> Before getting involved with building a ZAC Kit, we (my Father, Brother
and Myself) made our homework with several kits and plans built airplanes.
The ZAC planes won hands off, all incidents/accidents we could find were
pilot error or weather (well is pilot error also).
>
> Another point that I don't want to forget is the safe and easy the ZAC
aircraft are to fly. I think that Mr. Heintz thought on all of us (pilots
with less than 35 - 50 hours a year experience) when designing his
airplanes, The idea is to enjoy the flight. Sure enough, the planes are
not "fast", no Reno winners, but we are not also Reno pilots :-)
>
> The old people here say that men only fear the unknown, once they know
the facts they build confidence.
>
> Now down off my soap box.
>
> Saludos
> Gary Gower.
>
> "Fun flying begins the moment the wheels leave the strip. Not thinking
how fast we can get there... Where? Who cares. Gary Gower."
>
>
> Mike Fortunato <rsq2424@yahoo.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Fortunato
>
> > Any other problems I need to be aware of while
> making
> > the switch to the updated plans?
>
> You'll likely have a tough time getting an answer to
> that one. A lot depends on which version of the plans
> you have now, but there are LOTS of revisions. I asked
> the same question to ZAC, but never got a reply. My
> main concern was which items are crucial to the safety
> of the airframe. It would be great if they would
> handle updates much like software, where some are
> "critical". If you get an answer to that question,
> please post the reply. Thanks!
>
> Mike Fortunato
> 601XL
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour
>
>
> --
>
>
--
Message 16
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| Subject: | Wheel Fairings For 601XL |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lance Gingell" <lgingell@matrix-logic.com>
I have some RV fairings here. I've only just fitted my XL gear. It looks like they'll
fit.
Some of the cleveland wheels I've seen on airplanes around here have lower profile
tyres(tires) than my XL has. That will certainly make a difference.
The pants I have are off of an RV4, and I'm not sure, but I think they are 2+ years
old. They appear as if they'll fit with a few changes around the gear leg/brake
area. However, it'll be a good few months before I get to doing that.
..lance
________________________________
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Dave VanLanen
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Wheel Fairings For 601XL
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave VanLanen" <davevanlanen@sbcglobal.net>
The RV's also use 5.00 X 5 main gear wheels, although they are Clevelands
(don't know if that makes a difference).
I e-mailed Van's to ask if they thought their fairings would work on the
XL. Gus Funnell replied that he thought the set they have for a flat gear
leg might work. He also said their front tire is a Lamb, which is slightly
smaller than 5.00 X 5, so I don't know if their nose wheel fairing would
fit. I was hoping that someone else on the list had already tried the RV
fairings.
Dave Van Lanen
Madison, WI
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Time: 10:08:04 AM PST US
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Wheel Fairings For 601XL
From: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
The XL uses 5 x 5.00 wheels.
on 5/4/05 12:43 PM, Larry McFarland at larrymc@qconline.com wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
>
> Dave,
> If the standard XL tri-gear uses the same Matco 4 x 8.00 wheels and
>
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