Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:21 AM - Stratus engine mount crack (Bryan Martin)
2. 05:13 AM - Re: 601XL 3300 Carb Mixture (Bob Miller)
3. 06:16 AM - Re: 601XL 3300 Carb Mixture (Pete Krotje)
4. 06:16 AM - Re: Cutting the HD canopy (Larry McFarland)
5. 06:23 AM - Re: Lights update (Larry McFarland)
6. 06:36 AM - Re: Lighting,etc. (Larry McFarland)
7. 06:37 AM - Re: 601XL 3300 Carb Mixture (Weston, Jim)
8. 06:41 AM - Re: 601XL 3300 Carb Mixture (Weston, Jim)
9. 06:49 AM - Re: Cutting the HD canopy (Weston, Jim)
10. 08:28 AM - fuel sender placement (Brad Cohen)
11. 09:11 AM - Thanks for visiting us! (EMAproducts@aol.com)
12. 09:14 AM - Re: Cutting the HD canopy (Bill Steer)
13. 09:27 AM - Re: 601XL 3300 Carb Mixture (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
14. 09:37 AM - Re: 601XL 3300 Carb Mixture (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
15. 09:55 AM - Re: 601XL 3300 Carb Mixture (Pete Krotje)
16. 10:49 AM - Re: 601XL 3300 Carb Mixture (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
17. 11:01 AM - Re: 601XL 3300 Carb Mixture (Pete Krotje)
18. 11:23 AM - Re: fuel sender placement (Robin Bellach)
19. 11:26 AM - Re: 601XL 3300 Carb Mixture (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
20. 11:35 AM - Re: 601XL 3300 Carb Mixture (Weston, Jim)
21. 12:03 PM - Re: fuel sender placement (N5SL)
22. 12:03 PM - Re: fuel sender placement (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
23. 12:14 PM - Cortec Primer (Chuck Deiterich)
24. 12:30 PM - Re: fuel sender placement (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
25. 12:35 PM - Re: 601XL 3300 Carb Mixture (Pete Krotje)
26. 01:17 PM - Re: fuel sender placement (N5SL)
27. 01:25 PM - Re: Cutting the HD canopy (Bryan Martin)
28. 01:40 PM - Re: fuel sender placement (Bryan Martin)
29. 02:04 PM - Re: fuel sender placement (Lance Gingell)
30. 02:04 PM - Re: Cutting the HD canopy (David Alberti)
31. 02:17 PM - Re: Cutting the HD canopy (David Alberti)
32. 02:46 PM - Completed August Workshop (Dave VanLanen)
33. 02:49 PM - Re: fuel sender placement (Robin Bellach)
34. 02:56 PM - Re: Completed August Workshop (Craig Payne)
35. 03:11 PM - vor requirements for ifr (john butterfield)
36. 03:16 PM - Re: fuel sender placement (William J. Naumuk)
37. 03:18 PM - Re: Completed August Workshop (Randy Culp)
38. 03:21 PM - Re: Completed August Workshop (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
39. 03:30 PM - Re: Lights update (William J. Naumuk)
40. 03:30 PM - Re: Completed August Workshop (Larry McFarland)
41. 03:34 PM - Re: Lighting,etc. (William J. Naumuk)
42. 04:08 PM - Re: Completed August Workshop (William J. Naumuk)
43. 04:53 PM - Re: Completed August Workshop (Rich Dodson)
44. 05:04 PM - Re: Completed August Workshop (Gary Gower)
45. 05:04 PM - Re: fuel sender placement (Mike Fortunato)
46. 05:47 PM - Re: Completed August Workshop (Crvsecretary@aol.com)
47. 05:56 PM - Re: fuel sender placement (Al Young)
48. 07:31 PM - Re: fuel sender placement (VideoFlyer@AOL.COM)
49. 08:23 PM - Re: vor requirements for ifr (Rob Campbell)
50. 08:27 PM - Re: fuel sender placement (Brandon Tucker)
51. 11:11 PM - Re: vor requirements for ifr (Paul Mulwitz)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Stratus engine mount crack |
Stratus List <stratus-list@matronics.com>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
I found a crack on my upper right engine mount today. The crack started at
the front end of the upper gusset and extended down and back at a 45 degree
angle for about 3/4 inch. I remembered reading about this on the list some
time ago. I checked the archives and found a few other reported cracks on
the same mount in the same place after about the same number of hours on the
engine. I bought the engine in April 2001, I have 120 hours on the engine
now.
Looks like I'm going to be down for a while for repairs. It's about time for
my annual condition inspection anyway.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL 3300 Carb Mixture |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bob Miller <tutuzulu@gmail.com>
Bill,
I looked over my seminar notes and can't find the answer to this
excellent question. With your permission, I'll submit the question to
the Jabiru matronics list if you haven't already. Have you asked Pete
at US Jabiru? I'd sure like to know the answer when you find it. I'm
assuming you don't have the economy tuning kit, which makes the engine
run leaner. Once you get it straightened out, it would be
interesting if the economy tuning kit would work with the new air
fliter, and if so, what kind of economy you get. Please keep us
posted.
do not archive
Message 3
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| Subject: | 601XL 3300 Carb Mixture |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Pete Krotje" <pkrotje@athenet.net>
Bill,
The screw you refer to only adjusts the idle mixture. It will do nothing to
change the cruise power mixture. Please check that the carb vent tube is
still attached. Your symptoms sound like what we see when the vent tube is
dislodged.
Pete
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL 3300 Carb Mixture
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Dear Thread Friends, got a question for all you folks with 3300s. How do you
tell on the ground how much to adjust the mixture? A couple weeks ago I
installed an H & N high performance air filter. A lot less restrictive. I
wrote the Thread asking if it will effect the mixture, Remember? The answers
were uniformly that the carb was self compensating so no adjustment would
probably be required. Because of mid level cloud cover I had not got over 4
K since and the engine seemed to run OK. Today I climbed up to 6.5 K and the
mill started running rough and losing power. Temps were still in the green
and no throttle setting would clean it up. I started looking to see if I
could make the runway.
It was almost 100 degrees so I figured it couldn't be carb ice but I pulled
the control and the engine immediately ran smooth. I pushed it back in,
immediately rough again. I tried it at all throttle settings 200 rpm breaks
and though I could maintain altitude my speed dropped off to under 100. I
got near the strip and started easing her down and at about 3.5 K she ran
smooth without carb heat. Now I do not think it was the heat, it was that
the plumbing for carb heat is more restrictive and that made her run richer.
So I figure I need to make the carb richer. I know the screw that controls
the mixture, but is there any way to determine just how rich to adjust her
without taking the bird up for test flights every quarter turn ? Best
regards, Bill of Hot Georgia
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Cutting the HD canopy |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
Bill,
I had much the same experience and had to progressively trim the front
and rear canopy edges down to make contact with the bows. Saved trimming
on the sides for last. I used blue masking tape and an ink marker
compass held vertically to make a line of equal vertical displacement
front and rear to the fuselage top skins. The front and rear canopy
edges can be off the skins by as much as a quarter inch because the
rubber trim will touch down and close the gap. If you're thinking of
using flashing, I don't recommend it, for the front or rear if you can
manage to get a good fit all round. Important that the bows and canopy
have a good matching curvature, but if excess canopy height is your only
problem, consider it a good thing and trim the front and rear contact
areas until the canopy comes down to rest upon the bows. Take your time
as an inch can be a long way down if you cut too much at a time.
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/canopy/full/canopyrtfrt.gif
I've a bunch of pictures on the canopy page of my website and it's a
forward tilt but the principals for fitting are the same.
If you need more info, just ask,
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Bill Steer wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Steer" <bsteer@gwi.net>
>
>I'm trying to follow the ZAC sequence for assembling the canopy on my HD -
>fit the frame to the fuselage, then fit the canopy to the fuse, then fit the
>canopy to the frame. The frame, which is the side-tilt variety, is complete
>and built to the dimensions shown on both the original plans and on the CAD
>plans. Now, when I set the canopy in place over the frame, the curvature of
>both the front and rear of the canopy where it meets the skins is a perfect
>fit, but there's about an inch between the canopy and the frame both front
>and rear, at the centerline. Also, the canopy is longer, fore and aft, than
>the dimensions shown in the plans by about 50mm. A friend who's building an
>XL tells me the instructions for that version call for fitting the frame
>hoops to the canopy, rather than vice versa.
>
>So there are a couple of questions... First, do I have the assembly order
>correct and, if I do, what's the best way to cut the canopy so it fits both
>the fuselage and the frame? That is, should cuts be made parallel to the
>existing canopy front and rear edges, or should the cuts taper from zero at
>the bottom edge to some value in the middle? Or should I use the canopy
>as-is, except for the bottom horizontal edge on both sides, and build new
>frame hoops to fit the canopy. Oh, and there's plenty of headroom inside
>the canopy, so trimming it wouldn't be a problem height-wise.
>
>Thanks very much for any help and advice.
>
>Bill
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Lights update |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
Bill,
Again, with a piece of clear acetate film, you can ink mark trace the
edge of your trimmed wing and
by flipping it over to the other wing, see if that trim solution is
going to be symmetrical and suitable for the
other tip rib. Also, you might try marking the acetate first, over the
tip rib, slide it back an inch or so and
then mark the nose skin from it if it looks like a good fit.
Larry
William J. Naumuk wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "William J. Naumuk" <billn@velocity.net>
>
>All-
> Spent an hour trying different things with the fiberglas tip rib. It IS
>"S" shaped, with the geometry moving inboard towards the root.
>"Overtrimming" the nose skin inboard to fit, rather than placing a shim
>under the light assembly seems to be the best fix. STOP ME IF YOU THINK I'M
>WRONG!!
> Bill
> do not archive
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Lighting,etc. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
Bill,
I shouldn't have said "require", rather ZAC "provides" an illustrated
means of bending the stabilizer nose skin in the Zenair Construction
Manual on page 21. It describes use of a piece of plywood and a 18mm
stop strip, all on top of a table to prevent dings and uneven pressures
etc during the bend process. I used the method and it worked fine. You
might have to
go at it a couple of times to get the amount of bend you want, but
that's also better than over-bending.
The same principal is good for the rudder nose skin. I can scan that
page and send it to you if you don't have it, tho
it's nearly self explainatory.
Larry
William J. Naumuk wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "William J. Naumuk" <billn@velocity.net>
>
>Larry-
> Out of curiosity, where in the heck did you find the bend instructions?
>I looked through every piece of Zenith literature I have and couldn't find
>anything.
> Bill
>
> do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | 601XL 3300 Carb Mixture |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Weston, Jim" <Jim.Weston@delta.com>
Hi Bill,
Glad to hear that she's still flying well, sorry to hear that your
having some carb trouble. Of course you know that I don't have a 3300,
but if you have Bing altitude compensating carbs there isn't a screw
adjustment that adjusts mixture at cruise power. There is an idle
mixture adjustment at the bottom of the carb. Sounds like you have main
jet problems. If your carb is like mine (I purchased a manual from Bing
that you can take a look at), inside the large vacuum dome there is a
clip ring that fits into slots on the main jet needle that can be moved
to richen the mid to high range transition and the high end somewhat.
To really change the high end there is a new needle and jet that would
need to be replaced.
However, if you have dual carbs the roughness may be from just one carb
messing up. Which of course would be a whole different problem.
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL 3300 Carb Mixture
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Dear Thread Friends, got a question for all you folks with 3300s. How do
you tell on the ground how much to adjust the mixture? A couple weeks
ago I installed an H & N high performance air filter. A lot less
restrictive. I wrote the Thread asking if it will effect the mixture,
Remember? The answers were uniformly that the carb was self compensating
so no adjustment would probably be required. Because of mid level cloud
cover I had not got over 4 K since and the engine seemed to run OK.
Today I climbed up to 6.5 K and the mill started running rough and
losing power. Temps were still in the green and no throttle setting
would clean it up. I started looking to see if I could make the runway.
It was almost 100 degrees so I figured it couldn't be carb ice but I
pulled the control and the engine immediately ran smooth. I pushed it
back in, immediately rough again. I tried it at all throttle settings
200 rpm breaks and though I could maintain altitude my speed dropped off
to under 100. I got near the strip and started easing her down and at
about 3.5 K she ran smooth without carb heat. Now I do not think it was
the heat, it was that the plumbing for carb heat is more restrictive
and that made her run richer. So I figure I need to make the carb
richer. I know the screw that controls the mixture, but is there any way
to determine just how rich to adjust her without taking the bird up for
test flights every quarter turn ? Best regards, Bill of Hot Georgia
Message 8
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| Subject: | 601XL 3300 Carb Mixture |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Weston, Jim" <Jim.Weston@delta.com>
Good call. That tube provides ambient/static pressure to the top of the
diaphragm that moves the main jet plunger. I've heard that if you
lengthen this tube it will have adverse effects. Probably, more than
anything it depends on what the airflow is across the end of that tube
wherever it's routed.
Jim Weston
601HDS
Concord, GA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pete Krotje
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601XL 3300 Carb Mixture
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Pete Krotje" <pkrotje@athenet.net>
Bill,
The screw you refer to only adjusts the idle mixture. It will do
nothing to change the cruise power mixture. Please check that the carb
vent tube is still attached. Your symptoms sound like what we see when
the vent tube is dislodged.
Pete
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL 3300 Carb Mixture
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Dear Thread Friends, got a question for all you folks with 3300s. How do
you tell on the ground how much to adjust the mixture? A couple weeks
ago I installed an H & N high performance air filter. A lot less
restrictive. I wrote the Thread asking if it will effect the mixture,
Remember? The answers were uniformly that the carb was self compensating
so no adjustment would probably be required. Because of mid level cloud
cover I had not got over 4 K since and the engine seemed to run OK.
Today I climbed up to 6.5 K and the mill started running rough and
losing power. Temps were still in the green and no throttle setting
would clean it up. I started looking to see if I could make the runway.
It was almost 100 degrees so I figured it couldn't be carb ice but I
pulled the control and the engine immediately ran smooth. I pushed it
back in, immediately rough again. I tried it at all throttle settings
200 rpm breaks and though I could maintain altitude my speed dropped off
to under 100. I got near the strip and started easing her down and at
about 3.5 K she ran smooth without carb heat. Now I do not think it was
the heat, it was that the plumbing for carb heat is more restrictive
and that made her run richer.
So I figure I need to make the carb richer. I know the screw that
controls the mixture, but is there any way to determine just how rich to
adjust her without taking the bird up for test flights every quarter
turn ? Best regards, Bill of Hot Georgia
Message 9
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| Subject: | Cutting the HD canopy |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Weston, Jim" <Jim.Weston@delta.com>
Bill,
Don't forget that there are about 1/4 inch spacers between the frame and
the canopy to hold the canopy off of the frame in between screws. They
are cut out of nylon tubing.
Jim Weston
601HDS
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry
McFarland
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cutting the HD canopy
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland
--> <larrymc@qconline.com>
Bill,
I had much the same experience and had to progressively trim the front
and rear canopy edges down to make contact with the bows. Saved trimming
on the sides for last. I used blue masking tape and an ink marker
compass held vertically to make a line of equal vertical displacement
front and rear to the fuselage top skins. The front and rear canopy
edges can be off the skins by as much as a quarter inch because the
rubber trim will touch down and close the gap. If you're thinking of
using flashing, I don't recommend it, for the front or rear if you can
manage to get a good fit all round. Important that the bows and canopy
have a good matching curvature, but if excess canopy height is your only
problem, consider it a good thing and trim the front and rear contact
areas until the canopy comes down to rest upon the bows. Take your time
as an inch can be a long way down if you cut too much at a time.
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/canopy/full/canopyrtfrt.gif
I've a bunch of pictures on the canopy page of my website and it's a
forward tilt but the principals for fitting are the same.
If you need more info, just ask,
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Bill Steer wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Steer" <bsteer@gwi.net>
>
>I'm trying to follow the ZAC sequence for assembling the canopy on my
>HD - fit the frame to the fuselage, then fit the canopy to the fuse,
>then fit the canopy to the frame. The frame, which is the side-tilt
>variety, is complete and built to the dimensions shown on both the
>original plans and on the CAD plans. Now, when I set the canopy in
>place over the frame, the curvature of both the front and rear of the
>canopy where it meets the skins is a perfect fit, but there's about an
>inch between the canopy and the frame both front and rear, at the
>centerline. Also, the canopy is longer, fore and aft, than the
>dimensions shown in the plans by about 50mm. A friend who's building
>an XL tells me the instructions for that version call for fitting the
frame hoops to the canopy, rather than vice versa.
>
>So there are a couple of questions... First, do I have the assembly
>order correct and, if I do, what's the best way to cut the canopy so it
>fits both the fuselage and the frame? That is, should cuts be made
>parallel to the existing canopy front and rear edges, or should the
>cuts taper from zero at the bottom edge to some value in the middle?
>Or should I use the canopy as-is, except for the bottom horizontal edge
>on both sides, and build new frame hoops to fit the canopy. Oh, and
>there's plenty of headroom inside the canopy, so trimming it wouldn't
be a problem height-wise.
>
>Thanks very much for any help and advice.
>
>Bill
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | fuel sender placement |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brad Cohen" <bradfnp@msn.com>
I am in the process of installing the right wing leading edge skin and I am
trying to think at l;east one step ahead, and that means I am deciding on
the fuel sender placement.
I know that ZAC suggests placement along the inboard side of the tank (per
plans and photo guide)but I think (after talking to other xl builders) that
I will place it in the top of the tank. can anyone give me a location to
place the sender, other than "on the top of the tank"? (such as x mm from
the rear bead weld and x mm from the edge of the tank) I really only want to
drill one hole in the fuel tank instead of two, after realizing that the
place I pick is not the best location.
Has anyone used nutplates or A4's to secure the inevitable access cover for
said fuel sender? is there room under the leading edge skin for nutplates or
just the shop heads of the rivets?
Obviously I am working on the wing, I have not started on the baggage hatch
either. If anyone has a few suggestions (other than whats already been
posted) as to what to do/not to do when installing the baggage cover, I am
open to advice/suggestions.
Thanks for all your help!
Brad COhen
6-5803
Do Not Archieve
Message 11
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| Subject: | Thanks for visiting us! |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: EMAproducts@aol.com
Just a note to say thanks to all who visited our display of the RiteAngle AOA
system and attended forums @ Arlington & AirVenture this year. It is always
good to see customers face to face, many of you have become good friends over
the last 10 years. To those who are interested in our product we thank you for
your interest and orders.
EM aviation, LLC is a satellite dealer for Sportair-USA and will be handling
Woodcomp propellers, Galaxy Ballistic Parachute Rescue Systems, and the line
of aircraft that Sportair-USA handles. The Woodcomp props are at present
available for Rotax engines 80-115 HP, in ground adjustable, in flight manually
adjustable, and electronic adjustable. The electronic adjustable prop is
available with reversing for the amphibians and full feathering for the powered
sailplanes. Please contact me directly for info, our website will be updated in
future to show these and other fine products we are handling.
Thanks again for stopping by our display, if you still have questions please
let me know via e-mail!
Sincerely,
Elbie Mendenhall
EM Aviation, LLC
www.riteangle.com
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Cutting the HD canopy |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Steer" <bsteer@gwi.net>
Really?! I'd never heard or seen that. What happens where the canopy meets
the flashing at the bottom edge? Or is the first screw far enough from the
flashihg so it doesn't matter?
Thanks for pointing that out!
Bill
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Weston, Jim" <Jim.Weston@delta.com>
>
> Bill,
>
> Don't forget that there are about 1/4 inch spacers between the frame and
> the canopy to hold the canopy off of the frame in between screws. They
> are cut out of nylon tubing.
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL 3300 Carb Mixture |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Jim & Pete, the tube your talking about, is that the one that runs from the
carb up to the nipple of the mechanical fuel pump ? Clear plastic, not a fuel
line. Jim you were talking that it depended on air flow over the end of the
tube. If it is connected at both ends how does air flow over it. On my 3300 I
received from Pete, straight from the box, it was connected to the pump nipple.
Are you saying it is supposed to be an open end ?, I am at the office and
don't have any manuals here to refer to. Thanks, Bill
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL 3300 Carb Mixture |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Pete, do you have a diagram of where the various tubes vent tubes are
supposed to run ? I suspect somewhere I have a tube that is not where it is supposed
to be and that it what is effecting the carb. If you have such a diagram
please fax it to me at 478-827-0848, Thanks, Bill
Message 15
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| Subject: | 601XL 3300 Carb Mixture |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Pete Krotje" <pkrotje@athenet.net>
Bill,
The tube should be a 3/16 ID plastic line running from a nipple on the front
of the carb to the 3/16 port on the airbox - clean side of air filter.
Since you had the airbox cover off to replace filter the line may have come
off.
Pete
Pete
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL 3300 Carb Mixture
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Jim & Pete, the tube your talking about, is that the one that runs from the
carb up to the nipple of the mechanical fuel pump ? Clear plastic, not a
fuel line. Jim you were talking that it depended on air flow over the end of
the tube. If it is connected at both ends how does air flow over it. On my
3300 I received from Pete, straight from the box, it was connected to the
pump nipple.
Are you saying it is supposed to be an open end ?, I am at the office and
don't have any manuals here to refer to. Thanks, Bill
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL 3300 Carb Mixture |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Pete, is there supposed to be a vent tube from the carb to the mechanical
fuel pump ? Bill
Message 17
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| Subject: | 601XL 3300 Carb Mixture |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Pete Krotje" <pkrotje@athenet.net>
Bill,
No vent from carb to fuel pump. Nipple on fuel pump is just an overboard
drain in case fuel gets behind diaphram. Only vent line on carb goes to
airbox
Pete
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL 3300 Carb Mixture
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Pete, is there supposed to be a vent tube from the carb to the mechanical
fuel pump ? Bill
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: fuel sender placement |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com>
I placed them on top inline with and 10-1/2" center to center inboard of the
filler caps; but kind of regret placing them on top as I now have not
figured out how to make appropriate faired/domed covers for them (they
protrude about 3/8" above the top skiin). But, I guess if there ever is (or
more likely WHEN there is) a problem with them, they will be easily
accessible. So I too would be interested in how to fabricate or buy suitable
covers.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brad Cohen" <bradfnp@msn.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: fuel sender placement
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brad Cohen" <bradfnp@msn.com>
>
> I am in the process of installing the right wing leading edge skin and I
> am
> trying to think at l;east one step ahead, and that means I am deciding on
> the fuel sender placement.
>
> I know that ZAC suggests placement along the inboard side of the tank (per
> plans and photo guide)but I think (after talking to other xl builders)
> that
> I will place it in the top of the tank. can anyone give me a location to
> place the sender, other than "on the top of the tank"? (such as x mm from
> the rear bead weld and x mm from the edge of the tank) I really only want
> to
> drill one hole in the fuel tank instead of two, after realizing that the
> place I pick is not the best location.
>
> Has anyone used nutplates or A4's to secure the inevitable access cover
> for
> said fuel sender? is there room under the leading edge skin for nutplates
> or
> just the shop heads of the rivets?
>
> Obviously I am working on the wing, I have not started on the baggage
> hatch
> either. If anyone has a few suggestions (other than whats already been
> posted) as to what to do/not to do when installing the baggage cover, I am
> open to advice/suggestions.
>
> Thanks for all your help!
> Brad COhen
> 6-5803
> Do Not Archieve
>
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL 3300 Carb Mixture |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Pete, that may be my problem in a nutshell. I'll go by the hanger tonight and
see. Thanks, Bill
Message 20
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| Subject: | 601XL 3300 Carb Mixture |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Weston, Jim" <Jim.Weston@delta.com>
Hmmm. Maybe I'm out of my element in talking about a 3300 carb setup,
but on my Bing carbs the vent tube for each carb is about 3 inches long
and is open-ended. They are there to provide ambient air pressure to the
top of the main jet diaphragm. I'll have to take a look at yours the
next time I'm at the airport.
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL 3300 Carb Mixture
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Jim & Pete, the tube your talking about, is that the one that runs from
the carb up to the nipple of the mechanical fuel pump ? Clear plastic,
not a fuel line. Jim you were talking that it depended on air flow over
the end of the tube. If it is connected at both ends how does air flow
over it. On my 3300 I received from Pete, straight from the box, it was
connected to the pump nipple.
Are you saying it is supposed to be an open end ?, I am at the office
and don't have any manuals here to refer to. Thanks, Bill
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: fuel sender placement |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
If you are careful, you can reduce the height of the sender by modifying the top
connection - remove one of the nuts and grind down the lug. Here's a photo
of mine before I installed the top plate:
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/5_30_04_Wingholes.JPG
Here's a photo of the top plate cleco'd in place:
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/3_7_04_Access.JPG
I riveted it into place secretly hoping that I would never have to open it again.
If I do, I can always drill it out.
Scott Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com
working on my engine
Robin Bellach <601zv@ritternet.com> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com>
I placed them on top inline with and 10-1/2" center to center inboard of the
filler caps; but kind of regret placing them on top as I now have not
figured out how to make appropriate faired/domed covers for them (they
protrude about 3/8" above the top skiin). But, I guess if there ever is (or
more likely WHEN there is) a problem with them, they will be easily
accessible. So I too would be interested in how to fabricate or buy suitable
covers.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brad Cohen"
Subject: Zenith-List: fuel sender placement
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brad Cohen"
>
> I am in the process of installing the right wing leading edge skin and I
> am
> trying to think at l;east one step ahead, and that means I am deciding on
> the fuel sender placement.
>
> I know that ZAC suggests placement along the inboard side of the tank (per
> plans and photo guide)but I think (after talking to other xl builders)
> that
> I will place it in the top of the tank. can anyone give me a location to
> place the sender, other than "on the top of the tank"? (such as x mm from
> the rear bead weld and x mm from the edge of the tank) I really only want
> to
> drill one hole in the fuel tank instead of two, after realizing that the
> place I pick is not the best location.
>
> Has anyone used nutplates or A4's to secure the inevitable access cover
> for
> said fuel sender? is there room under the leading edge skin for nutplates
> or
> just the shop heads of the rivets?
>
> Obviously I am working on the wing, I have not started on the baggage
> hatch
> either. If anyone has a few suggestions (other than whats already been
> posted) as to what to do/not to do when installing the baggage cover, I am
> open to advice/suggestions.
>
> Thanks for all your help!
> Brad COhen
> 6-5803
> Do Not Archieve
>
>
>
---------------------------------
Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: fuel sender placement |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Brad, on your senders. That threaded stud your talking about that sticks up
is merely the ground. What I did was grind it and the nut down until there was
only enough to hold on the ground connecto, used Lock-Tite, and covered the
whole thing with a hand size piece of thin bicycle rubber inter tube (used that
"elephant snot" yellow glue to keep it in place). Clears easy the top skin
and is protected by the rubber. You can make these domes things you've written
about if your looking for work, but I have to say mine have been fine. Also,
remember when you start putting gas in the tanks they will sink down a bit from
the 12 gallon weight (78 pounds ?) and the metal gives a little and the cork
compresses. FWIW, Bill of Georgia
Message 23
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|
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich" <cfd@thegateway.net>
I am getting ready to pull the wings on my 701 and finally paint them. I
painted the fuselage before flying it. I brushed a thin coat of Zinc
Chromate on the fuse and painted it with automobile acrylic enamel. It looks
the same as when I first painted it in 2002.
How do most apply Cortec VCI-373 primer and will it work under acrylic
enamel?
Chuck D.
N701TX
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: fuel sender placement |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Brad, I think the center stud is the ground, ? but I'm at the office so I'm
not sure. Either way, that connection stud comes with two nuts on it, but one
with Lock-Tite should hold a little wire in place with no problem. Best
regards, Bill
Message 25
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|
| Subject: | 601XL 3300 Carb Mixture |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Pete Krotje" <pkrotje@athenet.net>
Jim,
The vent we are discussing keeps carb bowl pressure balanced with incomming
airflow. The main jet diaphram is controlled by a vent to the incomming air
vs a vent to the engine side of the carb.
Pete
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Weston, Jim
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601XL 3300 Carb Mixture
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Weston, Jim" <Jim.Weston@delta.com>
Hmmm. Maybe I'm out of my element in talking about a 3300 carb setup, but
on my Bing carbs the vent tube for each carb is about 3 inches long and is
open-ended. They are there to provide ambient air pressure to the top of the
main jet diaphragm. I'll have to take a look at yours the next time I'm at
the airport.
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL 3300 Carb Mixture
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Jim & Pete, the tube your talking about, is that the one that runs from the
carb up to the nipple of the mechanical fuel pump ? Clear plastic, not a
fuel line. Jim you were talking that it depended on air flow over the end of
the tube. If it is connected at both ends how does air flow over it. On my
3300 I received from Pete, straight from the box, it was connected to the
pump nipple.
Are you saying it is supposed to be an open end ?, I am at the office and
don't have any manuals here to refer to. Thanks, Bill
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: fuel sender placement |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
The center stud on mine is "+" and is isolated from the tank with a rubber grommet.
You can see it here with the square, rubber grommet under the plate and
the white, hot wire that plugs into the sender. Mine came from Aircraft Spruce
and is their universal sender.
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/3_5_03_SenderParts.JPG
You will want to keep this away from the top skin. I used the clear rubber glue
called "Liquid Steel" that is sold at Lowes and at Wal-Mart. I then topped that
off with a few layers of duct tape. Even with all that I don't think it's
touching the skin.
The round plate is the ground and I had to weld the "L" part to the plate to get
a good ground because it didn't work when I first tried it. I installed a ground
wire on one of the mounting screws. You might want to try your sender before
closing up the wing to make sure this isn't an issue.
Scott Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com
601XL/Corvair
JAPhillipsGA@aol.com wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Brad, I think the center stud is the ground, ? but I'm at the office so I'm
not sure. Either way, that connection stud comes with two nuts on it, but one
with Lock-Tite should hold a little wire in place with no problem. Best
regards, Bill
---------------------------------
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Cutting the HD canopy |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
There are no spacers in my XL plans either.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.
on 8/22/05 12:05 PM, Bill Steer at bsteer@gwi.net wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Steer" <bsteer@gwi.net>
>
> Really?! I'd never heard or seen that. What happens where the canopy meets
> the flashing at the bottom edge? Or is the first screw far enough from the
> flashihg so it doesn't matter?
>
> Thanks for pointing that out!
>
> Bill
>
>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Weston, Jim" <Jim.Weston@delta.com>
>>
>> Bill,
>>
>> Don't forget that there are about 1/4 inch spacers between the frame and
>> the canopy to hold the canopy off of the frame in between screws. They
>> are cut out of nylon tubing.
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: fuel sender placement |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
I put mine on top as close to the spar as I could. This location gives the
most clearance between tank and skin. The sender should be installed so that
the float is as close to the inboard end of the tank as practical. The float
rod should then be adjusted so that the gauge reads zero when the float
touches the bottom of the tank. That way, when the gauge reads near empty,
you know it's time to land and refuel. You will burn off 3-4 gallons before
the gauge moves off the full mark but it's more important to know reliably
when the tank empty.
I also took the terminals on the sender apart and re-installed them with the
lock washers on the inside, under the metal plate and ground down the
terminal screws with a belt sander to give more clearance between the top of
the terminal and the skin. I made a flat access cover to put over the sender
and used nutserts in the skin to secure them. I glued electrical insulation
to the bottom of the cover to ensure there would be no short circuit to the
terminals. It was a tight fit but it did fit.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.
on 8/22/05 11:27 AM, Brad Cohen at bradfnp@msn.com wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brad Cohen" <bradfnp@msn.com>
>
> I am in the process of installing the right wing leading edge skin and I am
> trying to think at l;east one step ahead, and that means I am deciding on
> the fuel sender placement.
>
>
> Has anyone used nutplates or A4's to secure the inevitable access cover for
> said fuel sender? is there room under the leading edge skin for nutplates or
> just the shop heads of the rivets?
>
> Obviously I am working on the wing, I have not started on the baggage hatch
> either. If anyone has a few suggestions (other than whats already been
> posted) as to what to do/not to do when installing the baggage cover, I am
> open to advice/suggestions.
>
> Thanks for all your help!
> Brad COhen
> 6-5803
Message 29
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|
| Subject: | fuel sender placement |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lance Gingell" <lgingell@matrix-logic.com>
I did much the same as Bryan. See here for my log/pics on 6-K-1:
http://lancegingell.com/planebuild/constructionlog.asp?PlanRef=6-k-1&Sea
rch=PlanRef
..lance
-----Original Message-----
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin
--> <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
I put mine on top as close to the spar as I could.
Message 30
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| Subject: | Cutting the HD canopy |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "David Alberti" <daberti@sbcglobal.net>
When did they add those?
-----Original Message-----
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Weston, Jim" <Jim.Weston@delta.com>
Bill,
Don't forget that there are about 1/4 inch spacers between the frame and
the canopy to hold the canopy off of the frame in between screws. They
are cut out of nylon tubing.
Jim Weston
601HDS
-
Message 31
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| Subject: | Cutting the HD canopy |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "David Alberti" <daberti@sbcglobal.net>
There is tubing that is cut to fit the "thickness" of the canopy and the
screw passes through the enter of this tube diameter. The hole in the
canopy is drilled to just fit the outside diameter of the tube. I believe I
used the same material that the brake lines are made of for this. Are these
the spacers you mention?
-----Original Message-----
Don't forget that there are about 1/4 inch spacers between the frame and
the canopy to hold the canopy off of the frame in between screws. They
are cut out of nylon tubing.
Jim Weston
601HDS
-
Message 32
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| Subject: | Completed August Workshop |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave VanLanen" <davevanlanen@sbcglobal.net>
My two sons and I attended the August workshop, and came home with a
completed 601 XL rudder, and with the complete kit loaded in our van. As
many others on the list have noted, the workshop is definitely worth
attending. I learned a lot, including learnings from a couple of dumb
mistakes. My sons also thorougly enjoyed it, and are now committed to
helping me with the project.
The only thing I am finding now is that I'm tending to obsess about whether
we did a good enough job on the construction. Must be my "type A"
personality. For example, I'm worrying about whether we got all our edge
distances good enough. Also, I forgot to explain to my son the correct way
to debur using the file, and he deburred some of the holes on the rear skin
by lightly filing at a 90 degree angle to the edge, leaving fine surface
scratches similar to roughing the surface with an abrasive pad.
I'll need to get myself into the correct frame of mind or I'll never make it
through the entire construction process if its going to worry me this much.
Is this normal, or is it just me? I'd like to think that the design leaves
some safety leeway for minor inconsistencies and errors, especially since
this is a learning process for us. I hope that's the case.
Dave Van Lanen
Madison, WI
601XL - rudder completed
Do not archive
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: fuel sender placement |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com>
Apparently the Aircraft Spruce senders are the way to go, since the ones
that ZAC provides (VW Rabbit type) stick up well above the top skin. Now I
have four of them installed and have to deal with creating 4 bumpy covers on
top my wings. I'm surprised no others have chimed in with similar problem.
Am I the only sucker that stupidly installed the ZAC type on top?
----- Original Message -----
From: "N5SL" <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: fuel sender placement
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
>
> The center stud on mine is "+" and is isolated from the tank with a rubber
> grommet. You can see it here with the square, rubber grommet under the
> plate and the white, hot wire that plugs into the sender. Mine came from
> Aircraft Spruce and is their universal sender.
>
> http://www.cooknwithgas.com/3_5_03_SenderParts.JPG
>
> You will want to keep this away from the top skin. I used the clear
> rubber glue called "Liquid Steel" that is sold at Lowes and at Wal-Mart. I
> then topped that off with a few layers of duct tape. Even with all that I
> don't think it's touching the skin.
>
> The round plate is the ground and I had to weld the "L" part to the plate
> to get a good ground because it didn't work when I first tried it. I
> installed a ground wire on one of the mounting screws. You might want to
> try your sender before closing up the wing to make sure this isn't an
> issue.
>
>
> Scott Laughlin
> www.cooknwithgas.com
> 601XL/Corvair
>
> JAPhillipsGA@aol.com wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
>
> Brad, I think the center stud is the ground, ? but I'm at the office so
> I'm
> not sure. Either way, that connection stud comes with two nuts on it, but
> one
> with Lock-Tite should hold a little wire in place with no problem. Best
> regards, Bill
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Completed August Workshop |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Craig Payne <craig@craigandjean.com>
I believe Chris Heintz said it best. To paraphrase: "Don't obsess, you
are not building a 747".
-- Craig
Dave VanLanen wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave VanLanen" <davevanlanen@sbcglobal.net>
>
> My two sons and I attended the August workshop, and came home with a
> completed 601 XL rudder, and with the complete kit loaded in our van. As
> many others on the list have noted, the workshop is definitely worth
> attending. I learned a lot, including learnings from a couple of dumb
> mistakes. My sons also thorougly enjoyed it, and are now committed to
> helping me with the project.
>
> The only thing I am finding now is that I'm tending to obsess about whether
> we did a good enough job on the construction. Must be my "type A"
> personality. For example, I'm worrying about whether we got all our edge
> distances good enough. Also, I forgot to explain to my son the correct way
> to debur using the file, and he deburred some of the holes on the rear skin
> by lightly filing at a 90 degree angle to the edge, leaving fine surface
> scratches similar to roughing the surface with an abrasive pad.
>
> I'll need to get myself into the correct frame of mind or I'll never make it
> through the entire construction process if its going to worry me this much.
> Is this normal, or is it just me? I'd like to think that the design leaves
> some safety leeway for minor inconsistencies and errors, especially since
> this is a learning process for us. I hope that's the case.
>
> Dave Van Lanen
> Madison, WI
> 601XL - rudder completed
>
> Do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 35
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| Subject: | vor requirements for ifr |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: john butterfield <jdbutterfield@yahoo.com>
hi guys,
i hope to finish my XL by october of this year. i
plan to use the corvair. I am planing my panel and
want to be able to fly light IFR I will fly out of
torrance, Ca and need to get through the light ceiling
around 2,000 feet, which usually is less than 500'
thick.
my question is this. I will be using the dylon and
gps for my navigation. I understand that i must have
a vor receiver to be legal. Can I use the vor
contained in my handheld icom and be legal. I have
used it for navigation in the past, cumbersome but it
works.
I would never use it if my dylon was not working, but
would like to avoid the traditional panel mounted
indicator and nav receiver. it really is a waste to
have a vor if it is never used. As for an emergency,
the vor in the handheld would suffice.
I know this attitude seems a little cavalier, but i am
not trying to be funny, just don't want a standard vor
nav if i don't have to.
I intend to have a tru track alt hold and a good gps
based auto pilot for navigation.
john butterfield
601XL
--- Zenith-List Digest Server
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> *
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> ================================================
>
>
>
>
> Zenith-List Digest
> Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Wed
> 07/20/05: 35
>
>
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 12:28 AM - Re: Re: Alex & the Rudder Factory
> (kevinbonds)
> 2. 03:21 AM - Zenith 601XL Flight Simulator
> (Jim Pellien)
> 3. 04:43 AM - Re: Zenith 601XL Flight Simulator
> (Paul Mulwitz)
> 4. 07:38 AM - Re: Oshkosh Lodging (B Johnson)
> 5. 08:32 AM - Rivet Tools (Alex Rodriguez, MD)
> 6. 09:02 AM - Re: Rivet Tools (Graham Kirby)
> 7. 09:08 AM - Re: Rivet Tools (Robert
> Schoenberger)
> 8. 09:15 AM - Re: Rivet Tools (Hinde, Frank
> George (Corvallis))
> 9. 09:22 AM - Re: Rivet Tools (Lance Gingell)
> 10. 09:49 AM - C-IDUS cross-country (Trevor
> Page)
> 11. 10:05 AM - Re: C-IDUS cross-country
> (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
> 12. 10:07 AM - Re: Rivet Tools (Paul Mulwitz)
> 13. 10:11 AM - Re: rivet tools (Zed Smith)
> 14. 10:31 AM - Re: Rivet Tools (Kent Brown)
> 15. 10:36 AM - Re: Rivet Tools (Kent Brown)
> 16. 11:09 AM - Re: Rivet Tools (Hinde, Frank
> George (Corvallis))
> 17. 11:49 AM - Re: Rivet Tools (Kent Brown)
> 18. 12:33 PM - Re: C-IDUS cross-country (Larry
> McFarland)
> 19. 12:40 PM - Re: Rivet Tools ()
> 20. 12:53 PM - Re: Rivet Tools (jnbolding1)
> 21. 12:54 PM - Re: Rivet Tools (Air vs. Electric
> Tools) (N5SL)
> 22. 01:08 PM - Re: Rivet Tools (Hinde, Frank
> George (Corvallis))
> 23. 01:18 PM - Re: Rivet Tools (Clyde Barcus)
> 24. 01:18 PM - pissshh-bonk (Zed Smith)
> 25. 01:23 PM - Re: Rivet Tools (Hinde, Frank
> George (Corvallis))
> 26. 01:46 PM - Re: Rivet Tools (Hinde, Frank
> George (Corvallis))
> 27. 01:47 PM - Re: Last Call For Builders dinner
> RSVP (N5SL)
> 28. 01:47 PM - Re: Last Call For Builders dinner
> RSVP (N5SL)
> 29. 01:50 PM - Re: [ Johann G. Johannsson ]
> (Tebenkof@aol.com)
> 30. 02:14 PM - Re: Rivet Tools
> (VideoFlyer@aol.com)
> 31. 03:55 PM - Re: Oshkosh Lodging (David
> Alberti)
> 32. 04:28 PM - Lodging (Neitzel)
> 33. 04:49 PM - Not Getting Daily Postings (Dave
> VanLanen)
> 34. 05:46 PM - Re: Oshkosh Lodging (WAYNE
> BEATTIE)
> 35. 07:58 PM - Re: Last Call For Builders dinner
> RSVP (Jim Pellien)
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 12:28:36 AM PST US
> From: "kevinbonds" <kevinbonds@comcast.net>
> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Alex & the Rudder
> Factory
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds"
> <kevinbonds@comcast.net>
>
>
> Hey guys
>
> I'll be right back. I've got to run over to the
> pharmacist and have him read
> Alex's emails to me :)
>
> Kevin Bonds
>
> Nashville TN
>
> 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
>
> Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
>
> http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
>
>
> do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alex Rodriguez, MD [mailto:proteus@mac.com]
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Alex & the Rudder
> Factory
>
> Hi Kevin,
>
> I guess my signature is just asking for trouble. :)
>
> I can tell this list is going to be great fun
> though. Take care,
>
> Alex
>
> On Jul 19, 2005, at 2:40 PM, kevinbonds wrote:
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds"
> > <kevinbonds@comcast.net>
> >
> > So that's Workshop . . . yes. Admit you are a
> doctor or lawyer on
> > this list
> > . . .no.
> >
> > Kevin Bonds
> >
> > Nashville TN
> >
> > 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
> >
> > Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
> >
> > http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
> >
> >
> > do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On
> Behalf Of
> > VideoFlyer@aol.com
> > To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Alex & the Rudder
> Factory
> >
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by:
> VideoFlyer@aol.com
> >
> > Yes! Do the workshop! I highly recommend it.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
=== message truncated ===
Message 36
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|
| Subject: | Re: fuel sender placement |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "William J. Naumuk" <billn@velocity.net>
Brad-
Just finished installing scratch built hatches on my HDS. Don't know
what you've read so far, but #1 priority is to drill 5/15 holes through the
hatch and 3/8 through the top skin. # 2 is, if you're using L angles
parallel to the ribs, bend them like you did for the top skin. # 3 is get
retainer snap rings to keep them attached to the hatch when it's open- 9
cents each at Aircraft Spruce. #4- If you have a Dzus that makes the hatch
draw down too tight or is too loose when engaged, it's a lot easier to order
a different length than risk buggering up your springs trying to bend them.
They make Dzus in .050 length increments and only cost a couple of bucks
each.
5# You don't HAVE to tear the hinges apart and reverse them. You can leave
them as they come from the factory and slip them between the top skin and
the spar cap. That's OK by Zenith, because they offer the option in the HDS
manual.I did it because hinges seem to work less freely once you pull the
pin and reinsert it.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brad Cohen" <bradfnp@msn.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: fuel sender placement
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brad Cohen" <bradfnp@msn.com>
>
> I am in the process of installing the right wing leading edge skin and I
am
> trying to think at l;east one step ahead, and that means I am deciding on
> the fuel sender placement.
>
> I know that ZAC suggests placement along the inboard side of the tank (per
> plans and photo guide)but I think (after talking to other xl builders)
that
> I will place it in the top of the tank. can anyone give me a location to
> place the sender, other than "on the top of the tank"? (such as x mm from
> the rear bead weld and x mm from the edge of the tank) I really only want
to
> drill one hole in the fuel tank instead of two, after realizing that the
> place I pick is not the best location.
>
> Has anyone used nutplates or A4's to secure the inevitable access cover
for
> said fuel sender? is there room under the leading edge skin for nutplates
or
> just the shop heads of the rivets?
>
> Obviously I am working on the wing, I have not started on the baggage
hatch
> either. If anyone has a few suggestions (other than whats already been
> posted) as to what to do/not to do when installing the baggage cover, I am
> open to advice/suggestions.
>
> Thanks for all your help!
> Brad COhen
> 6-5803
> Do Not Archieve
>
>
Message 37
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|
| Subject: | Completed August Workshop |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Culp" <randy_culp@hotmail.com>
Dave:
You are correct in your statement that you'll never get through this project
if you obsess over little stuff like this. Don't worry about it!
I've only got the wings done so far, and learned early on that if I wanted
to worry about every little tiny detail like that, I'd end up investing 2 or
3 times the "suggested" 500 hour build time into this.
Edge distance is one are that you need to keep a "reasonable" frame of mind
about. I aim for 10-11mm and sometimes get the odd one down in the 6-7mm
range because that's the only way to get it together without spending a huge
amount of time redoing something. If you ever do happen to get some that
are down in the 4-5mm or less range, and you are worried about it. It only
takes a few seconds to drill another hole and pop another rivet in!
I'm sure that every builder out there can point to all of the places on his
plane where he has had to do this, but other than cosmetic reasons, there is
no reason to worry about it.
Same thing for minor surface scratches on the skin......if you can't catch
your fingernail in it, don't worry about it.
It's tough to do sometime, but just try not to worry about the little stuff,
and move on with the project. Any mistakes you make now, will just be
lessons for later. There is a reason they do the rudder first......it's not
exatly a "structural" member of the airframe.
Good luck, and welcome to the list!
Randy
XL, Corvair, just finishing up the wings.
>From: "Dave VanLanen" <davevanlanen@sbcglobal.net>
>Reply-To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Zenith-List: Completed August Workshop
>Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 16:45:40 -0500
>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave VanLanen"
><davevanlanen@sbcglobal.net>
>
>My two sons and I attended the August workshop, and came home with a
>completed 601 XL rudder, and with the complete kit loaded in our van. As
>many others on the list have noted, the workshop is definitely worth
>attending. I learned a lot, including learnings from a couple of dumb
>mistakes. My sons also thorougly enjoyed it, and are now committed to
>helping me with the project.
>
>The only thing I am finding now is that I'm tending to obsess about whether
>we did a good enough job on the construction. Must be my "type A"
>personality. For example, I'm worrying about whether we got all our edge
>distances good enough. Also, I forgot to explain to my son the correct way
>to debur using the file, and he deburred some of the holes on the rear skin
>by lightly filing at a 90 degree angle to the edge, leaving fine surface
>scratches similar to roughing the surface with an abrasive pad.
>
>I'll need to get myself into the correct frame of mind or I'll never make
>it
>through the entire construction process if its going to worry me this much.
>Is this normal, or is it just me? I'd like to think that the design leaves
>some safety leeway for minor inconsistencies and errors, especially since
>this is a learning process for us. I hope that's the case.
>
>Dave Van Lanen
>Madison, WI
>601XL - rudder completed
>
>Do not archive
>
>
Message 38
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|
| Subject: | Re: Completed August Workshop |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Dave, welcome to the psycho biszaro world of experimental aircraft building.
Well, after about 6 months of measuring, drilling, cutting, filing and
obsessing over the least little dotted line you can barely see on one of ZAC's
fine
drawings and finding yourself awake at 1:00 a.m. wondering what it could mean
and why it's taking so long for Monday morning to come around so you can call
Nick or Roger to ask what it means, you will surely understand why I call it
psycho. Yes, you to may well obsess a bit, but drinking beer helped me and the
fine fellows on this Thread. I really envy you that your sons are a part of
this journey with you. If I can be of any help please don't hesitate to contact
me. What I don't know would fill volumes, but I know all the smart fellows who
do know like Frank, and Jeff and Pete and Ron and others. Jump on in, the
waters fine, Best regards, Bill of Georgia 601XL-3300w/DC
Message 39
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|
| Subject: | Re: Lights update |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "William J. Naumuk" <billn@velocity.net>
Larry-
I did some "Government Work" at work and ran off your journal on the
laser jet, so now I won't have to bother you for things you've already
stated.
Reading the journal, it seems you spent forever getting the nose skin
perfectly in line with the aluminum tip rib and then end the entry with
"More trimming will have to be done to both sides". That "More trimming" is
what I'm concerned about. I'm squared up with the aluminum tip rib now, but
will have to trim another 1/4- 3/8 off the nose skin inboard to fit the
geometry of the Zenith fiberglas tip. After going through 9 nose skins, I'd
wind up in the loony bin if I screwed something up on the LAST CUT and had
to bend another one!
Bill
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Lights update
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
>
> Bill,
> Again, with a piece of clear acetate film, you can ink mark trace the
> edge of your trimmed wing and
> by flipping it over to the other wing, see if that trim solution is
> going to be symmetrical and suitable for the
> other tip rib. Also, you might try marking the acetate first, over the
> tip rib, slide it back an inch or so and
> then mark the nose skin from it if it looks like a good fit.
>
> Larry
>
> William J. Naumuk wrote:
>
> >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "William J. Naumuk"
<billn@velocity.net>
> >
> >All-
> > Spent an hour trying different things with the fiberglas tip rib. It
IS
> >"S" shaped, with the geometry moving inboard towards the root.
> >"Overtrimming" the nose skin inboard to fit, rather than placing a shim
> >under the light assembly seems to be the best fix. STOP ME IF YOU THINK
I'M
> >WRONG!!
> > Bill
> > do not archive
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 40
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|
| Subject: | Re: Completed August Workshop |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
Dave,
Everyone suffers from what you're experiencing. It's like walking on
eggs for the longest time until you
get comfortable with the rules you're expected to build by. Don't
hyperventilate, just have some coffee and a cookie
and look twice at what you're doing and research the Archives. Lots of
info here. Few things that can
seriously foul you up if you work one problem at a time. Go slowly at
first and wade carefully into it.
If you screw up something, consider making the replacement part
yourself. You'll save a lot of money and
time. You're very lucky to have a couple of good extra hands with
which to share your project.
Try to kill the Type A personality, especially around your family. You
all want to be friends when you're done.
Nothing is perfect, so wait a while before deciding if you want to redo
the rudder, etc. If you do, do it from
plans.
If you do find the necessity of remaking a part, visit my website and
hopefully you'll end up only buying one
total kit in the end.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
do not archive
Dave VanLanen wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave VanLanen" <davevanlanen@sbcglobal.net>
>
>My two sons and I attended the August workshop, and came home with a
>completed 601 XL rudder, and with the complete kit loaded in our van. As
>many others on the list have noted, the workshop is definitely worth
>attending. I learned a lot, including learnings from a couple of dumb
>mistakes. My sons also thorougly enjoyed it, and are now committed to
>helping me with the project.
>
>The only thing I am finding now is that I'm tending to obsess about whether
>we did a good enough job on the construction. Must be my "type A"
>personality. For example, I'm worrying about whether we got all our edge
>distances good enough. Also, I forgot to explain to my son the correct way
>to debur using the file, and he deburred some of the holes on the rear skin
>by lightly filing at a 90 degree angle to the edge, leaving fine surface
>scratches similar to roughing the surface with an abrasive pad.
>
>I'll need to get myself into the correct frame of mind or I'll never make it
>through the entire construction process if its going to worry me this much.
>Is this normal, or is it just me? I'd like to think that the design leaves
>some safety leeway for minor inconsistencies and errors, especially since
>this is a learning process for us. I hope that's the case.
>
>Dave Van Lanen
>Madison, WI
>601XL - rudder completed
>
>Do not archive
>
>
>
>
Message 41
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|
| Subject: | Re: Lighting,etc. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "William J. Naumuk" <billn@velocity.net>
Larry-
Yeah, I saw that too, but figured it would work as well as hand bending
.025 sheet around a piece of PVC, like they recommend a couple of pages
later. Good to know it actually works.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Lighting,etc.
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
>
> Bill,
> I shouldn't have said "require", rather ZAC "provides" an illustrated
> means of bending the stabilizer nose skin in the Zenair Construction
> Manual on page 21. It describes use of a piece of plywood and a 18mm
> stop strip, all on top of a table to prevent dings and uneven pressures
> etc during the bend process. I used the method and it worked fine. You
> might have to
> go at it a couple of times to get the amount of bend you want, but
> that's also better than over-bending.
> The same principal is good for the rudder nose skin. I can scan that
> page and send it to you if you don't have it, tho
> it's nearly self explainatory.
>
> Larry
>
> William J. Naumuk wrote:
>
> >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "William J. Naumuk"
<billn@velocity.net>
> >
> >Larry-
> > Out of curiosity, where in the heck did you find the bend
instructions?
> >I looked through every piece of Zenith literature I have and couldn't
find
> >anything.
> > Bill
> >
> > do not archive
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: Completed August Workshop |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "William J. Naumuk" <billn@velocity.net>
Dave-
Everything's relative. You'll never attain perfection- and believe me,
building an airplane will prove it. There will always be someone with a ride
nicer than yours, but at the same time, yours will be nicer than others.
Just finishing at all is an accomplishment that puts you ahead of 250
million other people in this country.
In my modest opinion, if your primary goal is to build a SAFE plane,
rather than a pretty one, you've got the right mindset.
Besides, you already bought the kit. You're commited (And some say
should be commited!) The only way it will appreciate monetarily is if you
finish it and get some use from it. Wasn't that the plan in the beginning?
It's too late now- fact facts. You no longer belong to the other 250
"Normal" people in this country- you're normal for a homebuilder!
I wouldn't worry about the scratches- make your son rub them out!
That'll give you free rein to screw something else up unimpeded.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave VanLanen" <davevanlanen@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: Completed August Workshop
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave VanLanen"
<davevanlanen@sbcglobal.net>
>
> My two sons and I attended the August workshop, and came home with a
> completed 601 XL rudder, and with the complete kit loaded in our van. As
> many others on the list have noted, the workshop is definitely worth
> attending. I learned a lot, including learnings from a couple of dumb
> mistakes. My sons also thorougly enjoyed it, and are now committed to
> helping me with the project.
>
> The only thing I am finding now is that I'm tending to obsess about
whether
> we did a good enough job on the construction. Must be my "type A"
> personality. For example, I'm worrying about whether we got all our edge
> distances good enough. Also, I forgot to explain to my son the correct
way
> to debur using the file, and he deburred some of the holes on the rear
skin
> by lightly filing at a 90 degree angle to the edge, leaving fine surface
> scratches similar to roughing the surface with an abrasive pad.
>
> I'll need to get myself into the correct frame of mind or I'll never make
it
> through the entire construction process if its going to worry me this
much.
> Is this normal, or is it just me? I'd like to think that the design
leaves
> some safety leeway for minor inconsistencies and errors, especially since
> this is a learning process for us. I hope that's the case.
>
> Dave Van Lanen
> Madison, WI
> 601XL - rudder completed
>
> Do not archive
>
>
Message 43
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| Subject: | Re: Completed August Workshop |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Rich Dodson <r_dodson@yahoo.com>
Dave,
Congrats on getting the rudder done! I am going to the workshop in September with
my father as one of those "makeup" father-son trips that we never took when
I was a kid. Can I trouble you for two questions?
- Do they give you any time to prime the interior rudder parts before you rivet
them together?
- Can they hold the rudder for you and ship it to you later (with the tail kit
for instance?) Dad and I are both flying in and I would not exactly be able to
take this thing back as luggage!
Thanks for your help! Welcome to the party! I am building the 601XL because I
need a little more utility than my Flybaby...
Best Wishes,
Rich
soon to be 601XL rudder builder...
Message 44
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| Subject: | Re: Completed August Workshop |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Dave,
One advise:
We (My brother Larry, Carlos a building partner and Myself, Dad flew West a year
and a half ago), are building our 2nd ZAC project,,, And already build two
more plans built planes (not ZAC), in the past 12 years of fun.
We learned to "respect" our mistakes :-) and we just redo what ever we damaged,
fortunally only minor pieces, no mayor parts. Is part of the building fun
and (later) laugh in the hangar talks...
When our first mistakes (years ago) we got mad with us and sometime argue... a
little.
My Father used to say: If you get mad, you can eventualy divorce your Wife, but
never part from your Brothers, your Sons or your Parents.., so lets just smile
and redo...
If you press to much (seen this a few times as a local Built Advisor) you will
finish the project by yourself... Takes double or triple your time and is 2
or 3 times less the fun...
Just built and fly Safe.
By the way we learned and like to deburr using a larger bit...
Saludos
Gary Gower
Guadalajara, Mexico.
Dave VanLanen <davevanlanen@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave VanLanen"
My two sons and I attended the August workshop, and came home with a
completed 601 XL rudder, and with the complete kit loaded in our van. As
many others on the list have noted, the workshop is definitely worth
attending. I learned a lot, including learnings from a couple of dumb
mistakes. My sons also thorougly enjoyed it, and are now committed to
helping me with the project.
The only thing I am finding now is that I'm tending to obsess about whether
we did a good enough job on the construction. Must be my "type A"
personality. For example, I'm worrying about whether we got all our edge
distances good enough. Also, I forgot to explain to my son the correct way
to debur using the file, and he deburred some of the holes on the rear skin
by lightly filing at a 90 degree angle to the edge, leaving fine surface
scratches similar to roughing the surface with an abrasive pad.
I'll need to get myself into the correct frame of mind or I'll never make it
through the entire construction process if its going to worry me this much.
Is this normal, or is it just me? I'd like to think that the design leaves
some safety leeway for minor inconsistencies and errors, especially since
this is a learning process for us. I hope that's the case.
Dave Van Lanen
Madison, WI
601XL - rudder completed
Do not archive
---------------------------------
Message 45
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| Subject: | Re: fuel sender placement |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Fortunato <rsq2424@yahoo.com>
>have four of them installed and have to deal with creating 4 bumpy covers on
>top my wings. I'm surprised no others have chimed in with similar problem.
>Am I the only sucker that stupidly installed the ZAC type on top?
Nope, you're not the only one. If you check the archives, there's a hefty dose
of me complaining about the same thing. No matter how much cutting & filing down
the top center post of the senders, it simply would not fit under the skin.
Perhaps the cork I used was thicker, or the tanks were a bit larger...who knows.
I mounted the senders as far aft as I could, but it didn't matter. So, I cut
holes in the top skin and will need to create a domed cap for those areas.
Other listers helped by sending me info on how one might be able to press out
a dome using a wood mold, but I have yet to try it. In the meantime, I've tried
to casually look for some pre-made item that I could adapt, but nothing has
popped up so far.
Incidentally, although I'm not happy about having 4 bumps on the wings, I also
wouldn't be that thrilled at mounting senders into the sides of the tanks, with
constant fuel pressure against them. Seems to me a greater chance at developing
leaks, plus servicing them would not be easy.
Mike Fortunato
601XL
Message 46
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| Subject: | Re: Completed August Workshop |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Crvsecretary@aol.com
Hello Rich:
All the parts are primed before you get there so you will not have any
opportunity to experience 'the joys of priming'; it's all layout, drill &
assemble.
Yes, they will hold the rudder for you and ship it with the tail kit. And,
not to worry - they pack everything VERY well. When I received my wing kit
the wonderful folks at Yellow Freight ran a forklift through one of the sides
and nothing was damaged.
I would love to hear the conversation at Security bringing an XL rudder on
board as carry-on! Checked baggage? Not a chance!
Tracy Smith
Naugatuck, CT
601xl N458XL (reserved)
do not archive
In a message dated 8/22/2005 7:54:58 PM Eastern Standard Time,
r_dodson@yahoo.com writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Rich Dodson <r_dodson@yahoo.com>
Dave,
Congrats on getting the rudder done! I am going to the workshop in
September with my father as one of those "makeup" father-son trips that we never
took
when I was a kid. Can I trouble you for two questions?
- Do they give you any time to prime the interior rudder parts before you
rivet them together?
- Can they hold the rudder for you and ship it to you later (with the tail
kit for instance?) Dad and I are both flying in and I would not exactly be
able to take this thing back as luggage!
Thanks for your help! Welcome to the party! I am building the 601XL
because I need a little more utility than my Flybaby...
Best Wishes,
Rich
soon to be 601XL rudder builder...
Message 47
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| Subject: | Re: fuel sender placement |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Al Young" <armyret@one-eleven.net>
Mike- I've been following the sender saga, and when I installed my tanks
and senders, I had no trouble after I cut the post off and filed the large
nut down . I then put two layers of black elec tape over the post. I also,
added a access cover on top of the sender, and have had to remove the sender
twice since, so was glad I did.
Al Young
601XL- Re-building
Message 48
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| Subject: | Re: fuel sender placement |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: VideoFlyer@aol.com
Has onyone put the fuel sender in the end (rather than on the top) of the
fuel tank as shown in the plans? And if so, has anyone had any problems with
leaks. I did mine according to the instructions, but haven't tried putting fuel
in yet. I'm hoping I did the right thing.
Dave
videoflyer@aol.com
Message 49
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| Subject: | Re: vor requirements for ifr |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Rob Campbell <1global@adelphia.net>
John,
I am not a builder of any aircraft yet so I'm just lurking. In my
lurking I came upon a good article about this. Here's the link:
http://images.rvproject.com/IFR_Equipment.pdf
I have been flying into LAX for the past 16 years as an airline pilot
based there so I know of the persistent weather you are speaking of
especially on approach in the afternoon when the sun is lowering in
the western sky. I will be flying into Camarillo if I ever actually
build an airplane and I have thought of this very subject. I'd
really only be interested in building an aircraft capable of IFR
flight because of the coastal weather here. I was recently flying a
trip when a pilot of a single engine aircraft requested to pick up an
IFR clearance. The controller responded asking him if the aircraft
and pilot were both certified for IFR operations. I had never heard
that before. The pilot answered in the affirmative and the clearance
was issued. Food for thought. Be careful flying IFR in and out of
the LA basin and stick to your personal minimums.
Hope this helps.
Rob
On Aug 22, 2005, at 3:11 PM, john butterfield wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: john butterfield
> <jdbutterfield@yahoo.com>
>
> hi guys,
>
> i hope to finish my XL by october of this year. i
> plan to use the corvair. I am planing my panel and
> want to be able to fly light IFR I will fly out of
> torrance, Ca and need to get through the light ceiling
> around 2,000 feet, which usually is less than 500'
> thick.
>
> my question is this. I will be using the dylon and
> gps for my navigation. I understand that i must have
> a vor receiver to be legal. Can I use the vor
> contained in my handheld icom and be legal. I have
> used it for navigation in the past, cumbersome but it
> works.
>
> I would never use it if my dylon was not working, but
> would like to avoid the traditional panel mounted
> indicator and nav receiver. it really is a waste to
> have a vor if it is never used. As for an emergency,
> the vor in the handheld would suffice.
>
> I know this attitude seems a little cavalier, but i am
> not trying to be funny, just don't want a standard vor
> nav if i don't have to.
>
> I intend to have a tru track alt hold and a good gps
> based auto pilot for navigation.
>
> john butterfield
> 601XL
>
>
> --- Zenith-List Digest Server
> <zenith-list-digest@matronics.com> wrote:
>
>
>> *
>>
>> ==================================================
>> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
>> ==================================================
>>
>> Today's complete Zenith-List Digest can also be
>> found in either of the
>> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes
>> the Digest formatted
>> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features
>> Hyperlinked Indexes
>> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the
>> plain ASCII version
>> of the Zenith-List Digest and can be viewed with a
>> generic text editor
>> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>>
>> HTML Version:
>>
>>
>>
>>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list/Digest.Zenith-List.
> 2005-07-20.html
>
>>
>> Text Version:
>>
>>
>>
>>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list/Digest.Zenith-List.
> 2005-07-20.txt
>
>>
>>
>> ================================================
>> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
>> ================================================
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Zenith-List Digest
>> Archive
>> ---
>> Total Messages Posted Wed
>> 07/20/05: 35
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Today's Message Index:
>> ----------------------
>>
>> 1. 12:28 AM - Re: Re: Alex & the Rudder Factory
>> (kevinbonds)
>> 2. 03:21 AM - Zenith 601XL Flight Simulator
>> (Jim Pellien)
>> 3. 04:43 AM - Re: Zenith 601XL Flight Simulator
>> (Paul Mulwitz)
>> 4. 07:38 AM - Re: Oshkosh Lodging (B Johnson)
>> 5. 08:32 AM - Rivet Tools (Alex Rodriguez, MD)
>> 6. 09:02 AM - Re: Rivet Tools (Graham Kirby)
>> 7. 09:08 AM - Re: Rivet Tools (Robert
>> Schoenberger)
>> 8. 09:15 AM - Re: Rivet Tools (Hinde, Frank
>> George (Corvallis))
>> 9. 09:22 AM - Re: Rivet Tools (Lance Gingell)
>> 10. 09:49 AM - C-IDUS cross-country (Trevor
>> Page)
>> 11. 10:05 AM - Re: C-IDUS cross-country
>> (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
>> 12. 10:07 AM - Re: Rivet Tools (Paul Mulwitz)
>> 13. 10:11 AM - Re: rivet tools (Zed Smith)
>> 14. 10:31 AM - Re: Rivet Tools (Kent Brown)
>> 15. 10:36 AM - Re: Rivet Tools (Kent Brown)
>> 16. 11:09 AM - Re: Rivet Tools (Hinde, Frank
>> George (Corvallis))
>> 17. 11:49 AM - Re: Rivet Tools (Kent Brown)
>> 18. 12:33 PM - Re: C-IDUS cross-country (Larry
>> McFarland)
>> 19. 12:40 PM - Re: Rivet Tools ()
>> 20. 12:53 PM - Re: Rivet Tools (jnbolding1)
>> 21. 12:54 PM - Re: Rivet Tools (Air vs. Electric
>> Tools) (N5SL)
>> 22. 01:08 PM - Re: Rivet Tools (Hinde, Frank
>> George (Corvallis))
>> 23. 01:18 PM - Re: Rivet Tools (Clyde Barcus)
>> 24. 01:18 PM - pissshh-bonk (Zed Smith)
>> 25. 01:23 PM - Re: Rivet Tools (Hinde, Frank
>> George (Corvallis))
>> 26. 01:46 PM - Re: Rivet Tools (Hinde, Frank
>> George (Corvallis))
>> 27. 01:47 PM - Re: Last Call For Builders dinner
>> RSVP (N5SL)
>> 28. 01:47 PM - Re: Last Call For Builders dinner
>> RSVP (N5SL)
>> 29. 01:50 PM - Re: [ Johann G. Johannsson ]
>> (Tebenkof@aol.com)
>> 30. 02:14 PM - Re: Rivet Tools
>> (VideoFlyer@aol.com)
>> 31. 03:55 PM - Re: Oshkosh Lodging (David
>> Alberti)
>> 32. 04:28 PM - Lodging (Neitzel)
>> 33. 04:49 PM - Not Getting Daily Postings (Dave
>> VanLanen)
>> 34. 05:46 PM - Re: Oshkosh Lodging (WAYNE
>> BEATTIE)
>> 35. 07:58 PM - Re: Last Call For Builders dinner
>> RSVP (Jim Pellien)
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________ Message 1
>> _____________________________________
>>
>>
>> Time: 12:28:36 AM PST US
>> From: "kevinbonds" <kevinbonds@comcast.net>
>> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Alex & the Rudder
>> Factory
>>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds"
>> <kevinbonds@comcast.net>
>>
>>
>> Hey guys
>>
>> I'll be right back. I've got to run over to the
>> pharmacist and have him read
>> Alex's emails to me :)
>>
>> Kevin Bonds
>>
>> Nashville TN
>>
>> 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
>>
>> Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
>>
>> http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
>>
>>
>> do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Alex Rodriguez, MD [mailto:proteus@mac.com]
>> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Alex & the Rudder
>> Factory
>>
>> Hi Kevin,
>>
>> I guess my signature is just asking for trouble. :)
>>
>> I can tell this list is going to be great fun
>> though. Take care,
>>
>> Alex
>>
>> On Jul 19, 2005, at 2:40 PM, kevinbonds wrote:
>>
>>
>>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds"
>>> <kevinbonds@comcast.net>
>>>
>>> So that's Workshop . . . yes. Admit you are a
>>>
>> doctor or lawyer on
>>
>>> this list
>>> . . .no.
>>>
>>> Kevin Bonds
>>>
>>> Nashville TN
>>>
>>> 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
>>>
>>> Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
>>>
>>> http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
>>>
>>>
>>> do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
>>> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On
>>>
>> Behalf Of
>>
>>> VideoFlyer@aol.com
>>> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>>> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Alex & the Rudder
>>>
>> Factory
>>
>>>
>>> --> Zenith-List message posted by:
>>>
>> VideoFlyer@aol.com
>>
>>>
>>> Yes! Do the workshop! I highly recommend it.
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> === message truncated ===
>
>
Message 50
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| Subject: | Re: fuel sender placement |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Brandon Tucker <btucke73@yahoo.com>
Dave,
I mounted my senders on the sides of my scratch
built tanks as well. I liked the accessibility from
the wing root. I did fill mine with gas and left for
a weekend, checking several times a day, with no
leaks. I tried moving the sender around by hand, and
couldn't. I have not flown them yet, so I don't know
what vibration will do, but with the thick rubber
gasket provided, I think I will be O.K. I guess will
both find out someday...
-Other than possible leakage from the gasket, are
there any other reasons to mount at the top? Just
curious.
R/
Brandon
Message 51
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| Subject: | Re: vor requirements for ifr |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Hi Rob,
I enjoyed reading the article from the EAA your link referred to. I
guess the real bottom line is to be legal for IFR a homebuilt must
have a VOR receiver and a relatively complete gyro panel and should
have a transponder and encoder. The installed equipment must be
properly certified and tested but is not required to manufactured under TSO.
All of that makes sense for me except for the gyro requirements. I
never completed instrument training, but I had enough of it to know a
full panel is definitely not required for normal IFR operations. My
mean old instructor was constantly making me shoot pseudo-precision
approaches with only needle, ball, and airspeed. (I say pseudo
precision approaches because he always announced to the controllers
we were doing a no gyro approach, meaning no DG.) The implication of
all this is the full gyro panel requirement seems to be questionable.
The other strange thought your post brought to my mind (or what is
left of it) was the comment about the guy air-filing and having to
say his plane and pilot were properly certified. I wonder what would
have happened if he said no. (I also wonder what would happen if he lied.)
As a non-rated pilot, I am always worried about getting caught and
needing ATC assistance to get safely to the ground. This would often
seem to require IFR flight, but admitting the mistake of getting
caught on top or in IMC without a clearance is not something most of
us would like to do. I would certainly appreciate your comments on this issue.
I highly recommend the activity of amateur airplane building. It
works wonderfully for me. I am retired and desperately needed
something to do, and I am now faced with a year or two of intense
project. For me, picking a design to build wound up being an
exercise in learning what was most popular among home builders and
selecting the performance I wanted. This was not hard since I am
limiting myself to SLA and Sport Pilot limits so I don't have to
fight with the FAA for a medical certificate. In your case, I highly
recommend you consider carefully why you are building your own plane
and select the design accordingly. I would be glad to help you
through this maze if you are interested, but you could also do it
yourself with enough time and effort spent. My only advantage is I
have already done it a couple of times and know where to look for problems.
Thanks again,
Paul
(Currently completed tail feathers for 601XL and waiting for arrival
of wing kit)
At 08:22 PM 8/22/2005, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Rob Campbell <1global@adelphia.net>
>
>John,
>I am not a builder of any aircraft yet so I'm just lurking. In my
>lurking I came upon a good article about this. Here's the link:
>http://images.rvproject.com/IFR_Equipment.pdf
>I have been flying into LAX for the past 16 years as an airline pilot
>based there so I know of the persistent weather you are speaking of
>especially on approach in the afternoon when the sun is lowering in
>the western sky. I will be flying into Camarillo if I ever actually
>build an airplane and I have thought of this very subject. I'd
>really only be interested in building an aircraft capable of IFR
>flight because of the coastal weather here. I was recently flying a
>trip when a pilot of a single engine aircraft requested to pick up an
>IFR clearance. The controller responded asking him if the aircraft
>and pilot were both certified for IFR operations. I had never heard
>that before. The pilot answered in the affirmative and the clearance
>was issued. Food for thought. Be careful flying IFR in and out of
>the LA basin and stick to your personal minimums.
>Hope this helps.
>Rob
>
>On Aug 22, 2005, at 3:11 PM, john butterfield wrote:
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: john butterfield
> > <jdbutterfield@yahoo.com>
> >
> > hi guys,
> >
> > i hope to finish my XL by october of this year. i
> > plan to use the corvair. I am planing my panel and
> > want to be able to fly light IFR I will fly out of
> > torrance, Ca and need to get through the light ceiling
> > around 2,000 feet, which usually is less than 500'
> > thick.
> >
> > my question is this. I will be using the dylon and
> > gps for my navigation. I understand that i must have
> > a vor receiver to be legal. Can I use the vor
> > contained in my handheld icom and be legal. I have
> > used it for navigation in the past, cumbersome but it
> > works.
> >
> > I would never use it if my dylon was not working, but
> > would like to avoid the traditional panel mounted
> > indicator and nav receiver. it really is a waste to
> > have a vor if it is never used. As for an emergency,
> > the vor in the handheld would suffice.
> >
> > I know this attitude seems a little cavalier, but i am
> > not trying to be funny, just don't want a standard vor
> > nav if i don't have to.
> >
> > I intend to have a tru track alt hold and a good gps
> > based auto pilot for navigation.
> >
> > john butterfield
> > 601XL
> >
> >
> > --- Zenith-List Digest Server
> > <zenith-list-digest@matronics.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >> *
> >>
> >> ==================================================
> >> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> >> ==================================================
> >>
> >> Today's complete Zenith-List Digest can also be
> >> found in either of the
> >> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes
> >> the Digest formatted
> >> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features
> >> Hyperlinked Indexes
> >> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the
> >> plain ASCII version
> >> of the Zenith-List Digest and can be viewed with a
> >> generic text editor
> >> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
> >>
> >> HTML Version:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list/Digest.Zenith-List.
> > 2005-07-20.html
> >
> >>
> >> Text Version:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list/Digest.Zenith-List.
> > 2005-07-20.txt
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> ================================================
> >> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> >> ================================================
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Zenith-List Digest
> >> Archive
> >> ---
> >> Total Messages Posted Wed
> >> 07/20/05: 35
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Today's Message Index:
> >> ----------------------
> >>
> >> 1. 12:28 AM - Re: Re: Alex & the Rudder Factory
> >> (kevinbonds)
> >> 2. 03:21 AM - Zenith 601XL Flight Simulator
> >> (Jim Pellien)
> >> 3. 04:43 AM - Re: Zenith 601XL Flight Simulator
> >> (Paul Mulwitz)
> >> 4. 07:38 AM - Re: Oshkosh Lodging (B Johnson)
> >> 5. 08:32 AM - Rivet Tools (Alex Rodriguez, MD)
> >> 6. 09:02 AM - Re: Rivet Tools (Graham Kirby)
> >> 7. 09:08 AM - Re: Rivet Tools (Robert
> >> Schoenberger)
> >> 8. 09:15 AM - Re: Rivet Tools (Hinde, Frank
> >> George (Corvallis))
> >> 9. 09:22 AM - Re: Rivet Tools (Lance Gingell)
> >> 10. 09:49 AM - C-IDUS cross-country (Trevor
> >> Page)
> >> 11. 10:05 AM - Re: C-IDUS cross-country
> >> (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
> >> 12. 10:07 AM - Re: Rivet Tools (Paul Mulwitz)
> >> 13. 10:11 AM - Re: rivet tools (Zed Smith)
> >> 14. 10:31 AM - Re: Rivet Tools (Kent Brown)
> >> 15. 10:36 AM - Re: Rivet Tools (Kent Brown)
> >> 16. 11:09 AM - Re: Rivet Tools (Hinde, Frank
> >> George (Corvallis))
> >> 17. 11:49 AM - Re: Rivet Tools (Kent Brown)
> >> 18. 12:33 PM - Re: C-IDUS cross-country (Larry
> >> McFarland)
> >> 19. 12:40 PM - Re: Rivet Tools ()
> >> 20. 12:53 PM - Re: Rivet Tools (jnbolding1)
> >> 21. 12:54 PM - Re: Rivet Tools (Air vs. Electric
> >> Tools) (N5SL)
> >> 22. 01:08 PM - Re: Rivet Tools (Hinde, Frank
> >> George (Corvallis))
> >> 23. 01:18 PM - Re: Rivet Tools (Clyde Barcus)
> >> 24. 01:18 PM - pissshh-bonk (Zed Smith)
> >> 25. 01:23 PM - Re: Rivet Tools (Hinde, Frank
> >> George (Corvallis))
> >> 26. 01:46 PM - Re: Rivet Tools (Hinde, Frank
> >> George (Corvallis))
> >> 27. 01:47 PM - Re: Last Call For Builders dinner
> >> RSVP (N5SL)
> >> 28. 01:47 PM - Re: Last Call For Builders dinner
> >> RSVP (N5SL)
> >> 29. 01:50 PM - Re: [ Johann G. Johannsson ]
> >> (Tebenkof@aol.com)
> >> 30. 02:14 PM - Re: Rivet Tools
> >> (VideoFlyer@aol.com)
> >> 31. 03:55 PM - Re: Oshkosh Lodging (David
> >> Alberti)
> >> 32. 04:28 PM - Lodging (Neitzel)
> >> 33. 04:49 PM - Not Getting Daily Postings (Dave
> >> VanLanen)
> >> 34. 05:46 PM - Re: Oshkosh Lodging (WAYNE
> >> BEATTIE)
> >> 35. 07:58 PM - Re: Last Call For Builders dinner
> >> RSVP (Jim Pellien)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ________________________________ Message 1
> >> _____________________________________
> >>
> >>
> >> Time: 12:28:36 AM PST US
> >> From: "kevinbonds" <kevinbonds@comcast.net>
> >> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Alex & the Rudder
> >> Factory
> >>
> >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds"
> >> <kevinbonds@comcast.net>
> >>
> >>
> >> Hey guys
> >>
> >> I'll be right back. I've got to run over to the
> >> pharmacist and have him read
> >> Alex's emails to me :)
> >>
> >> Kevin Bonds
> >>
> >> Nashville TN
> >>
> >> 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
> >>
> >> Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
> >>
> >> http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
> >>
> >>
> >> do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Alex Rodriguez, MD [mailto:proteus@mac.com]
> >> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Alex & the Rudder
> >> Factory
> >>
> >> Hi Kevin,
> >>
> >> I guess my signature is just asking for trouble. :)
> >>
> >> I can tell this list is going to be great fun
> >> though. Take care,
> >>
> >> Alex
> >>
> >> On Jul 19, 2005, at 2:40 PM, kevinbonds wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds"
> >>> <kevinbonds@comcast.net>
> >>>
> >>> So that's Workshop . . . yes. Admit you are a
> >>>
> >> doctor or lawyer on
> >>
> >>> this list
> >>> . . .no.
> >>>
> >>> Kevin Bonds
> >>>
> >>> Nashville TN
> >>>
> >>> 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
> >>>
> >>> Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
> >>>
> >>> http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> >>> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On
> >>>
> >> Behalf Of
> >>
> >>> VideoFlyer@aol.com
> >>> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> >>> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Alex & the Rudder
> >>>
> >> Factory
> >>
> >>>
> >>> --> Zenith-List message posted by:
> >>>
> >> VideoFlyer@aol.com
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Yes! Do the workshop! I highly recommend it.
> >>>
> >>> Dave
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > === message truncated ===
> >
> >
>
>
---------------------------------------------
Paul Mulwitz
32013 NE Dial Road
Camas, WA 98607
---------------------------------------------
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