Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:40 AM - Re: What should the empty CG be for the 601XL? (AndrewC)
2. 04:24 AM - Re: Bill of sale (Robin Bellach)
3. 06:30 AM - Elevator solid rivets (Jean-Paul Roy)
4. 06:30 AM - Re: Bill of sale (Gig Giacona)
5. 06:51 AM - Speaking of Canopies... (Gig Giacona)
6. 06:54 AM - Re: Elevator solid rivets (Gig Giacona)
7. 06:57 AM - Re: Elevator solid rivets (shilocom@mcmsys.com)
8. 06:59 AM - Re: Re: Bill of sale (shilocom@mcmsys.com)
9. 07:37 AM - Re: 601 Rudder pedal return spring ()
10. 07:50 AM - Re: Elevator solid rivets (Tebenkof@aol.com)
11. 08:14 AM - Re: Speaking of Canopies... (Leo Gates)
12. 08:24 AM - Re: Re: Elevator solid rivets (Jean-Paul Roy)
13. 08:26 AM - elevator solid rivets (Gordon)
14. 08:29 AM - Re: Elevator solid rivets (Jean-Paul Roy)
15. 09:26 AM - Re: What should the empty CG be for the 601XL? (David X)
16. 10:01 AM - Re: Re: Elevator solid rivets (Craig Moore)
17. 10:39 AM - Re: Re: Elevator solid rivets (Gary Gower)
18. 10:45 AM - Re: Speaking of Canopies... (David X)
19. 10:53 AM - Re: Bill of sale (steveadams)
20. 01:25 PM - Re: Re: Bill of sale ()
21. 01:56 PM - Re: Speaking of Canopies... (Bryan Martin)
22. 03:24 PM - Re: Re: Bill of sale (lynn dingfelder)
23. 03:40 PM - Typhoid Mary (Bill+Rose)
24. 03:41 PM - Re: elevator solid rivets (Dave)
25. 03:43 PM - Re: Re: Bill of sale (Mike Sinclair)
26. 03:54 PM - Re: Re: Bill of sale (Sigmo@aol.com)
27. 04:31 PM - Re: Re: Bill of sale (Crvsecretary@aol.com)
28. 04:37 PM - Re: Re: Bill of sale (Matt & Jo)
29. 05:00 PM - Re: elevator solid rivets (Jean-Paul Roy)
30. 06:57 PM - 701 Rudder Kit (Arthur Olechowski)
31. 09:04 PM - Re: Re: Re: Bill of sale ()
32. 10:07 PM - Bill of sale update (Brandon Tucker)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: What should the empty CG be for the 601XL? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "AndrewC" <andrewgcampbell@tiscali.co.uk>
Hi David
I've got an XL with a Rotax 912ULS engine and my empty c of g is 339mm aft of the
leading edge (my datum). The airframe is the CZAW one though and I believe
that the c of g limits are slightly better for their kits as they have a couple
of design differences, the most obvious one being composite gear instead of
metal. My c of g range as approved by the UK authorities is between 350 and
500mm (although I think the most recent paperwork I saw allowed it to go back
even further).
Hope that helps.
Andrew
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=19061#19061
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Bill of sale |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com>
Prepare a Bill of Sale from you to yourself for all the components you have
purchased from various sources?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 12:41 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Bill of sale
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
>
> So what does a scratch builder do for a bill of sale? And how does the FAA
> know if you are a scratch or kit builder?
>
> -- Craig
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Shuck
> Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 7:02 PM
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Bill of sale
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Steve Shuck" <stshuck@comcast.net>
>
> No they didn't send it to me until I requested it yesterday. I didn't
> realize that the FAA requires it in order to register the aircraft.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brandon Tucker" <btucke73@yahoo.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 5:12 PM
> Subject: Zenith-List: Bill of sale
>
>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Brandon Tucker <btucke73@yahoo.com>
>>
>> Gents,
>>
>> Did Zenith send you a bill of sale for each subkit purchased? I
>> can't find mine in my bundle O'
>> paperwork. Did those of you who have completed registration get the
>> bill of sale later from ZAC?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Brandon
>>
>> Starting registration paperwork
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Elevator solid rivets |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jean-Paul Roy" <jean-paul.roy4@tlb.sympatico.ca>
Good morning all
Out of curiosity, I wanted to know the reason why Zenith asks for the installation
of solid rivets on the elevator trailing edge versus pulled rivets.
Secondly, what is the best tool to use for those rivets?
Jean-Paul Roy
7-6265 tail almost complete
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Bill of sale |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona@cox.net>
craig(at)craigandjean.com wrote:
> So what does a scratch builder do for a bill of sale? And how does the FAA
> know if you are a scratch or kit builder?
>
> -- Craig
>
> --
Right your own and they will know from your construction log and photos.
--------
W.R. Gig Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=19097#19097
Message 5
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| Subject: | Speaking of Canopies... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona@cox.net>
Looking at Larry's canopie in the previous thread got me wondering, how is night
flying with the tinted canopie?
--------
W.R. Gig Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=19102#19102
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator solid rivets |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona@cox.net>
I have to ask. Where are there solid rivets on the elevator? It's been a while
since I built that part but I would think I would remember. In fact I'm sure I
haven't installed a single solid rivet in my XL.
Of course there are some installed by the factory in the wing spar but I really
don't remember any in the tail.
--------
W.R. Gig Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=19103#19103
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator solid rivets |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: shilocom@mcmsys.com
If You don't have a reivet squeezer you can use a solid surface and a flat ended
punch and hammer. If they are calling for round headed rivets, you will need
a die made to fit the round rivet. I have taken a bucking bar or good size
piece of bar stock and drilled it and inserted the die in it. For a few rivets
you might be able to machine a recess to fit the rivet head using a die grinding
burr in a drill press and get by. Bob U.
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jean-Paul Roy" <jean-paul.roy4@tlb.sympatico.ca>
>
>Good morning all
>Out of curiosity, I wanted to know the reason why Zenith asks for the installation
of solid rivets on the elevator trailing edge versus pulled rivets.
>
>Secondly, what is the best tool to use for those rivets?
>
>Jean-Paul Roy
>7-6265 tail almost complete
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Bill of sale |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: shilocom@mcmsys.com
You declare on the application whether you are a kit builder or "built from Parts".
If you are a kit builder, a homemade bill of sale won't work, and if you are
Not the original builder you have to prove who all the owners were for Exp Amateur
built catagory. Bob U.
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona@cox.net>
>
>
>craig(at)craigandjean.com wrote:
>> So what does a scratch builder do for a bill of sale? And how does the FAA
>> know if you are a scratch or kit builder?
>>
>> -- Craig
>>
>> --
>
>
>Right your own and they will know from your construction log and photos.
>
>--------
>W.R. Gig Giacona
>601XL Under Construction
>See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=19097#19097
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: 601 Rudder pedal return spring |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <PAULROD36@msn.com>
EUREKA! I like Bill's solution better than my own. Looking at his "bellcrank/bar"
made me realize that springs alone would have to be very strong to maintain
any sort of cable tension on the rudder cables (I hate floppy cables, had a 150
that drove me nuts) whereas threaded rods from pedal to bellcrank would solve
the problem. Thanks, Bill, I'm off to the hangar to plagiarize.
Paul Rodriguez
601XL/Corvair
----- Original Message -----
From: BillSewell@aol.com<mailto:BillSewell@aol.com>
To: zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com> ; rdewees@mindspring.com<mailto:rdewees@mindspring.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 11:15 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 Rudder pedal return spring
--> Zenith-List message posted by: BillSewell@aol.com<mailto:BillSewell@aol.com>
Here is my solution to the problem:
_http://www.n601bz.com/CH601XL/Fuselage/Control_Cables/043005.htm_
(http://www.n601bz.com/CH601XL/Fuselage/Control_Cables/043005.htm<http://www.n601bz.com/CH601XL/Fuselage/Control_Cables/043005.htm>)
Bill Sewell
N601BZ
In a message dated 2/28/2006 9:10:51 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
rdewees@mindspring.com<mailto:rdewees@mindspring.com> writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ron dewees <rdewees@mindspring.com<mailto:rdewees@mindspring.com>>
Oops!--
I just realized that only the 601 Taildraggers have my problem with
floppy rudder pedals since the nosegear 601 steering rods connect to the
nosegear and keep the pedals in a fixed upright position till they are
depressed. If there are taildragger builders or flyers out there I
would still like suggestions, etc.
Thanks
Ron DeWees
N601TD taildragger
do not archive
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator solid rivets |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Tebenkof@aol.com
You have probably realized this by now, but the pulled rivets have a big
knobby end on the back side, normally hidden inside the structure. Solid rivets
are much cleaner on the trailing edges.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Speaking of Canopies... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Leo Gates <leogates@allvantage.com>
Gig Giacona wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona@cox.net>
>
>Looking at Larry's canopie in the previous thread got me wondering, how is night
flying with the tinted canopie?
>
>--------
>W.R. Gig Giacona
>601XL Under Construction
>See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=19102#19102
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
I notice no real difference.
Leo Gates
N601Z
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator solid rivets |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jean-Paul Roy" <jean-paul.roy4@tlb.sympatico.ca>
Gig, the solid rivets are to be installed at the trailing edge of the
elevator
Jean-Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona@cox.net>
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 9:50 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Elevator solid rivets
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona@cox.net>
>
> I have to ask. Where are there solid rivets on the elevator? It's been a
while since I built that part but I would think I would remember. In fact
I'm sure I haven't installed a single solid rivet in my XL.
>
> Of course there are some installed by the factory in the wing spar but I
really don't remember any in the tail.
>
> --------
> W.R. Gig Giacona
> 601XL Under Construction
> See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=19103#19103
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | elevator solid rivets |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gordon" <cscsail@gmavt.net>
I made a squeezer like the one shown here: http://ch701.com/Tools/budget%20plyers/pliers.htm
works very well and was easy to make.
Gordon
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator solid rivets |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jean-Paul Roy" <jean-paul.roy4@tlb.sympatico.ca>
Yes of course. That makes much sense. Elementary...... Thank you
Jean-Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: <Tebenkof@aol.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 10:45 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Elevator solid rivets
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Tebenkof@aol.com
>
> You have probably realized this by now, but the pulled rivets have a big
> knobby end on the back side, normally hidden inside the structure. Solid
rivets
> are much cleaner on the trailing edges.
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: What should the empty CG be for the 601XL? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "David X" <dxj@comcast.net>
Losing 30 lbs by using the composite landing gear is most definately a plus for
the CG. The aircraft have heavy-duty aluminum gear in the US.
The published CG range (for US) is between 300 and 450mm - i.e. between 20 and
30% MAC. The datum is the leading edge of the wing.
The UK standards for max weight are lower, I beleive, which would lessen the CG
issues considerably.
What is the empty weight and the maximum gross weight of your ship?
--------
Zodiac 601 XL - CZAW Built - Rotax 912S
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=19130#19130
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator solid rivets |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Craig Moore <moorecomp@yahoo.com>
Gig,
The XL elevator uses a closed trailing edge skin. A
bend in the skin forms the trailing edge. On the 701,
the skin wraps from the rear on the bottom, all the
way around the front, to the rear on top. It must be
riveted together at the trailing edge. Thus the solid
rivets are the best looking option.
Craig Moore A&P
701 builder wannabe
do not archive
--- Gig Giacona <wr.giacona@cox.net> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona"
> <wr.giacona@cox.net>
>
> I have to ask. Where are there solid rivets on the
> elevator? It's been a while since I built that part
> but I would think I would remember. In fact I'm sure
> I haven't installed a single solid rivet in my XL.
>
> Of course there are some installed by the factory in
> the wing spar but I really don't remember any in the
> tail.
>
> --------
> W.R. Gig Giacona
> 601XL Under Construction
> See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
>
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator solid rivets |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
This rivets are the little ones that go in the trailing edge, they are the soft
kind.
There is a tool at AS&S to press them "Rivet Squeezer",
Saludos
Gary Gower.
Gig Giacona <wr.giacona@cox.net> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona"
I have to ask. Where are there solid rivets on the elevator? It's been a while
since I built that part but I would think I would remember. In fact I'm sure I
haven't installed a single solid rivet in my XL.
Of course there are some installed by the factory in the wing spar but I really
don't remember any in the tail.
--------
W.R. Gig Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
---------------------------------
Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Speaking of Canopies... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "David X" <dxj@comcast.net>
No appreciable difference.
--------
Zodiac 601 XL - CZAW Built - Rotax 912S
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=19145#19145
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Bill of sale |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "steveadams" <dr_steve_adams@yahoo.com>
This really baffled me as well. When I was ready to register my plane, I called
them up and asked for a bill of sale. All the way up to M Hientz I got the same
"we've never heard of this before" and "we only sold you a kit, not an airplane,
so we can't give you a bill of sale." After sending them the FAA documentation
showing that I needed it, they finally sent me one. That was a year ago,
and it sounds like they're still playing the same game.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=19146#19146
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Bill of sale |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <davgray@sbcglobal.net>
They sent mine upon request last June without any hassle.
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Speaking of Canopies... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
I have the tinted canopy and haven't had any problem with night flight.
Visibility is still excellent.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.
on 3/2/06 9:46 AM, Gig Giacona at wr.giacona@cox.net wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona@cox.net>
>
> Looking at Larry's canopie in the previous thread got me wondering, how is
> night flying with the tinted canopie?
>
> --------
> W.R. Gig Giacona
> 601XL Under Construction
> See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Bill of sale |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "lynn dingfelder" <ding@tbscc.com>
Listers,
Once you register your aircraft with the FAA, they will send
notification of this to your state Department of Revenue. At this time you
will get a letter, and will need receipts of expenditures in the
construction of your plane, and will be expected to submit applicable state
taxes on all items on which you haven't already paid state sales tax. In the
case of a scratch- built plane, this is materials used in construction. It
is somewhat of an honor system, but very small materials lists may require
an explanation. I went through this on a previous plans built plane, and
had been very resourceful in obtaining free, cheap, and local parts (meaning
already taxed), and PA Dept. of Revenue accepted my explanation and a check
for what they had coming. (I'm TRYING to be civil in use of this wording!!)
Lynn
Corry, PA
Message 23
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill+Rose" <naumuk@alltel.net>
Lynn D-
Just tried to respond to an e-mail from you (Glad to hear from you, Bud) off-Z-list,
but got bounced big time (Total crash) from my AV program. Only happens
when someone's a carrier. Take it from someone who just trashed 2 hard drives-
get some protection. Norton's the least expensive.
Bill
Message 24
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| Subject: | elevator solid rivets |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave" <daberti@sbcglobal.net>
Oh NO!! You used a green scotch brite!!
I made a squeezer like the one shown here:
http://ch701.com/Tools/budget%20plyers/pliers.htm
works very well and was easy to make.
Gordon
do not archive
Message 25
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|
| Subject: | Re: Bill of sale |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Sinclair <mike.sinclair@att.net>
I don't know how you can be very civil. The bloodsuckers at the Kansas Dept. of
Revenue, when they found out I built an airplane, sent me a sales tax bill, and
then charged me over 50% penalty besides for the 5 year build time from kit
purchase to registration. I know the old line about "ignorance of the law is no
excuse", but I was unaware that I needed to pay a sales tax on this to Kansas.
And part of where I screwed up was buying the full kit all at once, including
engine. I really have a hard time believing Dorothy & Toto wanted to come back
here sometimes. And I grew up in this state. Look out, our honorable gov.
Sebelius is looking at a run for president. And what she's done for Kansas, she
would do to the US.
Mike
Do Not Archive
lynn dingfelder wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "lynn dingfelder" <ding@tbscc.com>
>
> Listers,
> Once you register your aircraft with the FAA, they will send
> notification of this to your state Department of Revenue. At this time you
> will get a letter, and will need receipts of expenditures in the
> construction of your plane, and will be expected to submit applicable state
> taxes on all items on which you haven't already paid state sales tax. In the
> case of a scratch- built plane, this is materials used in construction. It
> is somewhat of an honor system, but very small materials lists may require
> an explanation. I went through this on a previous plans built plane, and
> had been very resourceful in obtaining free, cheap, and local parts (meaning
> already taxed), and PA Dept. of Revenue accepted my explanation and a check
> for what they had coming. (I'm TRYING to be civil in use of this wording!!)
> Lynn
> Corry, PA
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Bill of sale |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Sigmo@aol.com
I used the same documentation that I used for the State Tax people. I
followed the FAA's instructions and itemized the kit sub assembly purchases and
included the bill of sale for each part.
It took three letters to FAA but it resulted in a registration. Contact me
at my E-mail if you would like copies of the documentation I sent.
Mike Sigman
N7092N 601XL
Do not archive
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Bill of sale |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Crvsecretary@aol.com
Here in Connecticut we have a state income tax AND a sales tax. If purchases
are made from out of state the sales tax then becomes a USE tax and the
items should be listed as an add-on to the state income tax filed every year.
So, when I purchase a kit component, I declare it on my income tax filing and
the tax is paid.
My accountant thinks I'm nutz, but I tell him it's a must to register this
thing once it is finally built.
Tracy Smith
Naugatuck, CT
N458XL (reserved)
Do Not Archive
In a message dated 3/2/2006 6:44:00 PM Eastern Standard Time,
mike.sinclair@ATT.NET writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Sinclair <mike.sinclair@att.net>
I don't know how you can be very civil. The bloodsuckers at the Kansas Dept.
of
Revenue, when they found out I built an airplane, sent me a sales tax bill,
and
then charged me over 50% penalty besides for the 5 year build time from kit
purchase to registration. I know the old line about "ignorance of the law is
no
excuse", but I was unaware that I needed to pay a sales tax on this to
Kansas.
And part of where I screwed up was buying the full kit all at once, including
engine. I really have a hard time believing Dorothy & Toto wanted to come
back
here sometimes. And I grew up in this state. Look out, our honorable gov.
Sebelius is looking at a run for president. And what she's done for Kansas,
she
would do to the US.
Mike
Do Not Archive
lynn dingfelder wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "lynn dingfelder" <ding@tbscc.com>
>
> Listers,
> Once you register your aircraft with the FAA, they will
send
> notification of this to your state Department of Revenue. At this time you
> will get a letter, and will need receipts of expenditures in the
> construction of your plane, and will be expected to submit applicable state
> taxes on all items on which you haven't already paid state sales tax. In
the
> case of a scratch- built plane, this is materials used in construction. It
> is somewhat of an honor system, but very small materials lists may require
> an explanation. I went through this on a previous plans built plane, and
> had been very resourceful in obtaining free, cheap, and local parts
(meaning
> already taxed), and PA Dept. of Revenue accepted my explanation and a check
> for what they had coming. (I'm TRYING to be civil in use of this wording!!)
> Lynn
> Corry, PA
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | Re: Bill of sale |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Matt & Jo" <archermj@swbell.net>
Mike, I am in Kansas also. I called the Kansas Dpt of Rev and asked what
I needed to-do about sales tax and was met with a blank stare(over the
Phone). They didn't know what I was talking about. Who did you contact?
I agree about Sebelius
Matt
www.zodiacxl.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Sinclair" <mike.sinclair@ATT.NET>
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 5:40 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Bill of sale
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Sinclair <mike.sinclair@att.net>
>
> I don't know how you can be very civil. The bloodsuckers at the Kansas
> Dept. of
> Revenue, when they found out I built an airplane, sent me a sales tax
> bill, and
> then charged me over 50% penalty besides for the 5 year build time from
> kit
> purchase to registration. I know the old line about "ignorance of the law
> is no
> excuse", but I was unaware that I needed to pay a sales tax on this to
> Kansas.
> And part of where I screwed up was buying the full kit all at once,
> including
> engine. I really have a hard time believing Dorothy & Toto wanted to come
> back
> here sometimes. And I grew up in this state. Look out, our honorable gov.
> Sebelius is looking at a run for president. And what she's done for
> Kansas, she
> would do to the US.
>
Message 29
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|
| Subject: | Re: elevator solid rivets |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jean-Paul Roy" <jean-paul.roy4@tlb.sympatico.ca>
Thank you Dave or Gordon. Exactly what I was looking for. I'll make myself a
set.
Jean-Paul
>
>
Message 30
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Arthur Olechowski <ifly4fun2@sbcglobal.net>
All,
I have a complete 701 Rudder kit with spare parts that I would like to get rid
of for a reasonable price. Only step one of the kit has been completed. I
also have brand new riveter with the machined heads from Zenith. My original
priorities have changed therefore delaying my project for awhile.
Let me know if there is any interest.
do not archive
AJ
Zenith-List Digest Server <zenith-list-digest@matronics.com> wrote:
*
==================================================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
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two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the Zenith-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
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HTML Version:
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================================================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
================================================
Zenith-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Wed 03/01/06: 31
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:04 AM - Re: Re: Recessed elevator trim tab (Paul Mulwitz)
2. 04:25 AM - Zenith-list: Rudder return springs (Dave & Doretta New)
3. 05:34 AM - Control lever and horn grease (Don Mountain)
4. 06:28 AM - Re: Re: Recessed elevator trim tab (Michel Therrien)
5. 06:28 AM - Re: Zenith-List Digest: 20 Msgs - 02/28/06 (alex trent)
6. 06:41 AM - Re: 601 Rudder pedal return spring (ron dewees)
7. 07:03 AM - Re: Control lever and horn grease (Jim Hoak)
8. 09:21 AM - Canopy storage (Doug Sire)
9. 09:27 AM - Re: Control lever and horn grease. (Gary Gower)
10. 10:31 AM - Re: Canopy storage (Jim Hoak)
11. 10:55 AM - Re: Canopy storage (LarryMcFarland)
12. 11:13 AM - Re: Recessed elevator trim tab (David X)
13. 11:38 AM - Re: Recessed elevator trim tab (Doug Sire)
14. 11:58 AM - Re: Recessed elevator trim tab (David X)
15. 01:20 PM - Wiring harness questions (John Hines)
16. 01:43 PM - Re: Wiring harness questions (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
17. 01:58 PM - Re: Aux fuel pump in 701.Aux fuel pump in 701. (steveadams)
18. 03:42 PM - Re: Canopy storage (Jim Weston)
19. 05:16 PM - Bill of sale (Brandon Tucker)
20. 05:16 PM - Bill of sale (Brandon Tucker)
21. 05:28 PM - What should the empty CG be for the 601XL? (David X)
22. 06:05 PM - Re: Bill of sale (Steve Shuck)
23. 06:20 PM - Re: Recessed elevator trim tab (David X)
24. 06:30 PM - Re: Bill of sale (Rick R)
25. 07:35 PM - Re: Bill of sale (Jack Russell)
26. 07:50 PM - Elevator trim photo assembly guide mismatch (mark doughty)
27. 08:02 PM - Re: Re: Aux fuel pump in 701.Aux fuel pump in 701. (Larry)
28. 08:56 PM - Re: Canopy storage (Leo Gates)
29. 10:48 PM - Re: Bill of sale (Craig Payne)
30. 11:32 PM - Official Zenith-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) (Matt Dralle)
31. 11:38 PM - Official Zenith-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
Time: 04:04:09 AM PST US
From: Paul Mulwitz
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Recessed elevator trim tab
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz
>I've been told by some to simply add a resistor, but that would
>reduce the power level to the servo, making it weaker as well as
>slower. The servo speed control does it without reducing power/strength.
I'm really confused by this one. It seems to me that to reduce the
speed of the servo motor you must reduce the voltage supplied to
it. That naturally reduces the power to the motor. There just ain't
no other way for this to work.
I think the actual circuit required to do this electrically is a
voltage divider. Since the voltage to the servo motor is actually
reversed, this would require separate divider networks for each of
the wires that supply power to the servo motor. The total number of
resistors needed for this approach would be 4 and the grand component
cost around 50 cents.
A similar approach could be done mechanically by increasing the
length of the trim tab control horn. In this case, the power would
actually be increased by slowing down the trim tab movement due to
the increased mechanical advantage.
I guess this leaves me completely baffled when I try to understand
why the design is so poor that you can't actually trim the plane for
level flight with the final design.
Paul
XL wings
________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
Time: 04:25:00 AM PST US
From: "Dave & Doretta New"
Subject: Zenith-List: Zenith-list: Rudder return springs
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave & Doretta New"
Subject: Rudder return springs
List
I have been flying a 601 HDS taildragger for 3 years now. Have used small springs
connected to rudder pedels with small chain and hooks. Holds pedels very well
with out too much force. Also when flying note witch pedel needs more force
to keep ball centered. Simple mater to adjust springs to use chain and hooks
to adjust pedel pressure and help center ball.
Dave New
601 HDS Taildragger Subaru
________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________
Time: 05:34:46 AM PST US
From: Don Mountain
Subject: Zenith-List: Control lever and horn grease
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Don Mountain
As per other discussions on sticking ailerons recently, I don't find any recommendations
in the instructions on what type of grease to use on parts like the
aileron horns where they rotate and contact the supporting angles in the wings.
I noticed that you need to be real careful how tight you torque the mounting
bolts through the horns, but also found that normal "axel grease" gets kind
of stiff in cold weather. As I put my wings together, I wonder what others are
using for a lubricant on the aileron horn pivot?
Don Mountain
601XL, tail done, working on wings
---------------------------------
Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________
Time: 06:28:17 AM PST US
From: Michel Therrien
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Recessed elevator trim tab
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien
Good information ... thanks to all who responded.
Michel
do not archive
--- Zodie Rocket wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket"
>
>
> Michael the larger trim tab is for the LSA
> requirements in which they
> are using 0-200's and Jab 3300's and require less
> stick pressure in full
> flap configuration. Your right it is way to much for
> normal flying
> conditions and I would not alter from the original
> design of the
> recessed trim tab. Bigger in this case is not always
> better, but for the
> U.S. Sport Pilot it is necessary and the 601XL plans
> have evolved to
> suit this category.
>
> Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
> Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started
> www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On
> Behalf Of Michel
> Therrien
> Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 10:25 PM
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Recessed elevator trim
> tab
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien
>
>
> Thanks! On that page, we find an older version of
> the
> trim tab. However, a new version is on the XL
> pages... I'm surprised to see how big is the XL tab.
>
> Mine is much smaller and already has almost too much
> authority.
>
> Michel
> do not archive
>
>
> --- Mitch Hodges wrote:
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mitch Hodges"
> >
> >
> > Michel,
> >
> > Its available on the Zodiac Zenith Builder pages
> at
> > the Zenith website with the other online PDFs.
> >
> > http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/6-manuals.html
> >
> > Mitch Hodges
> >
> > --------
> > N601MH (Zenith 601HDS)
> > Wings Under Construction
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> >
>
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=18483#18483
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > browse
> > Subscriptions page,
> > FAQ,
> > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
> >
> > Admin.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ----------------------------
> Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
> http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
> http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
> http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
> --
>
>
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
>
> Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________
Time: 06:28:17 AM PST US
From: alex trent
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith-List Digest: 20 Msgs - 02/28/06
--> Zenith-List message posted by: alex trent
>Time: 06:48:31 AM PST US
>Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: tuskegee
>From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
>
>I heard one of the Tuskegee airmen speak a few years back and claimed
>the President's Wife taking a ride with the black pilot was complete
>fiction...Didn't happen!
>
>Frank
>
>Do not archive
>
>--
>
Colonel stewart claims the movie was 1% documentary and 99% drama
alex
________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________
Time: 06:41:34 AM PST US
From: ron dewees
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 Rudder pedal return spring
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ron dewees
Many thanks to Bill, Paul, Mike, Jim, and others for great suggestions
on the infamous "floppy pedal" problem in taildraggers.
I got a lot of great suggestions, pictures, and descriptions of ways
to fix the pedals. I suspect that the Viagra suggestion was slipped in
by a jealous nose dragger pilot tho ;-) .
Best of all I met a great bunch of happy tailwheel pilots. I
honestly didn't know there were as many taildraggers flying. We need a
flyin or something? Check out and join 601_HD-HDS Yahoo group for more
info and flyin activities in the greater Atlanta area. We would love
posts about your plane and flight experiences.
Thanks guys! I went from no soultion to about half dozen. What a nice
problem to have.
Ron DeWees
N601TD
do not archive
________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________
Time: 07:03:47 AM PST US
From: "Jim Hoak"
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Control lever and horn grease
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Hoak"
List,
I've been using plain old motor oil for 9 years on my HD aileron bellcranks.
No problem.
Jim H.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Mountain"
Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 8:31 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Control lever and horn grease
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Don Mountain
>
> As per other discussions on sticking ailerons recently, I don't find any
> recommendations in the instructions on what type of grease to use on parts
> like the aileron horns where they rotate and contact the supporting angles
> in the wings. I noticed that you need to be real careful how tight you
> torque the mounting bolts through the horns, but also found that normal
> "axel grease" gets kind of stiff in cold weather. As I put my wings
> together, I wonder what others are using for a lubricant on the aileron
> horn pivot?
>
> Don Mountain
> 601XL, tail done, working on wings
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________
Time: 09:21:02 AM PST US
Subject: Zenith-List: Canopy storage
From: "Doug Sire"
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Doug Sire"
My complete 601XL kit arrived last week and it is unpacked and
inventoried. However, since I won't be at a point where I will need the
canopy for about a year, I'm wondering how best to store it in the
interim. It will be in my basement so won't be subject to temperature
extremes, but should I leave it rolled up as it was shipped, or unroll it
and store it that way. It is still in its brown kraft wrapping paper.
Thanks,
Doug Sire
601XL
________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________
Time: 09:27:43 AM PST US
From: Gary Gower
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Control lever and horn grease.
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower
Mi airplane is a 701, but we use as a lubricant the special grease sold to assemble
the engines when they are rebuilt, the one I use is white.
Cleaning and re-greasing (sp?) is in my every year mantainance of the plane.
Now that we are building the 601 XL we are planning to make (in our lathe),
where ever possible to install, some nylon or bronce bushings... Cant remember
now the plans pages for the XL alerions, but will plan in advance something.
One local 701 builder made this bushings and they work great, not needed but
he likes to make things, but also is very weight concern... A great piece of
machinery his 701, photos soon, once its flying, he told me.
Saludos
Gary Gower.
Don Mountain wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Don Mountain
As per other discussions on sticking ailerons recently, I don't find any recommendations
in the instructions on what type of grease to use on parts like the
aileron horns where they rotate and contact the supporting angles in the wings.
I noticed that you need to be real careful how tight you torque the mounting
bolts through the horns, but also found that normal "axel grease" gets kind of
stiff in cold weather. As I put my wings together, I wonder what others are
using for a lubricant on the aileron horn pivot?
Don Mountain
601XL, tail done, working on wings.
---------------------------------
Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________
Time: 10:31:11 AM PST US
From: "Jim Hoak"
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Canopy storage
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Hoak"
Doug,
I would suggest you unroll it and let it take it's proper shape. For safe
storage, I used a half sheet of styrafoam, supported by two 4' long pieces
of 1" x 2" wood at the ends with small holes drilled in the ends. I used
pieces of safety wire (unraveled coat hangers would work) to hang the
"shelf" from the ceiling up out of the way. The canopy sat on top of that.
It worked fine.
Jim Hoak 601HD
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Sire"
Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 12:16 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Canopy storage
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Doug Sire"
>
> My complete 601XL kit arrived last week and it is unpacked and
> inventoried. However, since I won't be at a point where I will need the
> canopy for about a year, I'm wondering how best to store it in the
> interim. It will be in my basement so won't be subject to temperature
> extremes, but should I leave it rolled up as it was shipped, or unroll it
> and store it that way. It is still in its brown kraft wrapping paper.
>
> Thanks,
> Doug Sire
> 601XL
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________
Time: 10:55:43 AM PST US
From: LarryMcFarland
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Canopy storage
--> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland
Doug Sire wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Doug Sire"
>
> However, since I won't be at a point where I will need the
>canopy for about a year, I'm wondering how best to store it in the
>interim. It will be in my basement so won't be subject to temperature
>extremes, but should I leave it rolled up as it was shipped, or unroll it
>and store it that way. It is still in its brown kraft wrapping paper.
>
>Thanks,
>Doug Sire
>601XL
>
>
>
Doug,
I stored my canopy in the ceiling of the garage. Temps won't affect
it at all if left in the natural
open position. Leave the protective film on until you absolutely
have to to complete its install.
The link below shows how it was stored in the garage for about a year.
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/canopy/full/canopy.gif
Larry McFarland - 601HDS @ www.macsmachine.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________
Time: 11:13:25 AM PST US
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Recessed elevator trim tab
From: "David X"
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "David X"
My understanding of how the server speed control works is that it uses pulse width
modulation to control the speed of the motor - i.e. the power is switched
on an off rapidly to the motor as opposed to simply reducing the voltage.
Your idea of using a longer control arm would also require a servo with a longer
travel. A common servo used for the trim tab is a MAC 4A with a .7" travel and
10 seconds of travel time. The MAC 6A has 1" of travel and 16 seconds of travel
time. That might be a good compromise.
My only guess about the small trim tab is that it was a leftover from the HD, HDS
and UL designs which don't have flaps. I'm happy that Zenair is always improving
the design, though.
--------
Zodiac 601 XL - CZAW Built - Rotax 912S
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=18800#18800
________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________
Time: 11:38:58 AM PST US
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Recessed elevator trim tab
From: "Doug Sire"
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Doug Sire"
Ray Allen Company's web site offers some more information and opinions in
this area. They offer a servo speed control, and their FAQ page
addresses some pros and cons of slowing down a servo.
Doug Sire
601XL
________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________
Time: 11:58:47 AM PST US
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Recessed elevator trim tab
From: "David X"
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "David X"
An interesting idea in the FAQ. A switch/sensor in the flap control could be used
to bypass the speed control. The speed control could be bypassed when flaps
are used. With flaps up (cruise) the speed control is active to help reduce sensitivity.
--------
Zodiac 601 XL - CZAW Built - Rotax 912S
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=18808#18808
________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________
Time: 01:20:29 PM PST US
Subject: Zenith-List: Wiring harness questions
From: "John Hines"
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Hines"
A few years ago I rebuilt an old car and ripped out every wire in the
=== message truncated ===
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Bill of sale |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <mhilderbrand@cox.net>
> Tell them when you do your tax return. I played stupid on my other plane and
did not claim it. I flew for 2 years before I got the letter in the mail from
the KS dept of revenue wanting an invoice for my aircraft (this just happened
about 3months ago). I sent them my invoice right away and they did not charge
me a penalty.
Now, I still haven't paid personal property taxes. I am sure I will get something
soon.
mike
> From: "Matt & Jo" <archermj@swbell.net>
> Date: 2006/03/02 Thu PM 07:33:45 EST
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Bill of sale
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Matt & Jo" <archermj@swbell.net>
>
> Mike, I am in Kansas also. I called the Kansas Dpt of Rev and asked what
> I needed to-do about sales tax and was met with a blank stare(over the
> Phone). They didn't know what I was talking about. Who did you contact?
>
> I agree about Sebelius
>
> Matt
> www.zodiacxl.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike Sinclair" <mike.sinclair@ATT.NET>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 5:40 PM
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Bill of sale
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Sinclair <mike.sinclair@att.net>
> >
> > I don't know how you can be very civil. The bloodsuckers at the Kansas
> > Dept. of
> > Revenue, when they found out I built an airplane, sent me a sales tax
> > bill, and
> > then charged me over 50% penalty besides for the 5 year build time from
> > kit
> > purchase to registration. I know the old line about "ignorance of the law
> > is no
> > excuse", but I was unaware that I needed to pay a sales tax on this to
> > Kansas.
> > And part of where I screwed up was buying the full kit all at once,
> > including
> > engine. I really have a hard time believing Dorothy & Toto wanted to come
> > back
> > here sometimes. And I grew up in this state. Look out, our honorable gov.
> > Sebelius is looking at a run for president. And what she's done for
> > Kansas, she
> > would do to the US.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 32
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| Subject: | Bill of sale update |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Brandon Tucker <btucke73@yahoo.com>
Gents,
I spoke to Sabastian today. This is what he
said, and what my DAR confirmed correct tonight at my
EAA meeting. If you purchase your plans (and the
rights to a aircraft) from another builder, and then
buy an entire airframe kit from ZAC, due to the fact
that the original plans and serial number were sold to
another builder, they can only send you a bill of sale
with the original purchaser's name on it, with the
permission of the original builder. It does not
matter that you registered the change of ownership
through ZAC. You MUST get an official FAA bill of
sale through the original purchaser, or a chain of FAA
bills of sale for multiple project change of
ownerships to ensure a smooth registration process.
You should also make sure that the name on the bill of
sale matches all other FAA documentation that you
file.
I spoke to my EAA chapter on this chapter
tonight, and at least 3 members had no idea of this
requirement, and were going to get these third party
bills of sales now, while the previous kit owners are
still alive... Food for thought...
R/
Brandon
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