Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 12:12 AM - [Please Read] Why I Have A Fund Raiser... (Matt Dralle)
1. 03:00 AM - Re: Rudder Nose Skin (Brad Cohen)
2. 03:08 AM - Re: 701 Build time (rroberts)
3. 04:10 AM - Re: Free forming sheet metal (kmccune)
4. 05:19 AM - Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend (steve)
5. 05:31 AM - Re: Free forming sheet metal (MacDonald Doug)
6. 05:32 AM - Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
7. 05:39 AM - Elevator Control Friction (countzero)
8. 05:53 AM - Re: Quick Question About 601XL Z-angles (Paul Mulwitz)
9. 06:19 AM - Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend (Pete Krotje)
10. 06:43 AM - Re: Rudder Nose Skin (LarryMcFarland)
11. 06:46 AM - Re: Taildragger (Aaron Gustafson)
12. 06:54 AM - Re: Roll over protection (Aaron Gustafson)
13. 07:01 AM - Re: Roll over protection (Gig Giacona)
14. 07:20 AM - Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
15. 07:40 AM - Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend (T. Graziano)
16. 08:21 AM - Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
17. 09:13 AM - Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend (Randy)
18. 09:30 AM - Re: RE : Re: Scratchbuilding Tools (Terry Phillips)
19. 10:52 AM - Re: Rudder Nose Skin (Art Olechowski)
20. 11:02 AM - RE : Re: Scratchbuilding Tools (DaveG601XL)
21. 01:05 PM - Re: Roll over protection (Terry Phillips)
22. 01:09 PM - Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend (T. Graziano)
23. 01:11 PM - Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend (T. Graziano)
24. 01:33 PM - Re: Elevator Control Friction (Martin Pohl)
25. 01:44 PM - Re: Roll over protection (Gig Giacona)
26. 01:50 PM - Emailing: tommy929 004 (steve)
27. 02:01 PM - Re: Roll over protection (Jaybannist@cs.com)
28. 02:13 PM - Re: RE : Re: Scratchbuilding Tools ()
29. 02:55 PM - Re: Rudder Nose Skin (LarryMcFarland)
30. 03:18 PM - Re: of wrath and rants... (secatur)
31. 03:26 PM - Re: RE : Re: Scratchbuilding Tools (Terry Turnquist)
32. 03:32 PM - Re: Rudder Nose Skin (Paul Riedlinger)
33. 03:47 PM - Re: Re: of wrath and rants... (dralle@matronics.com (Matt Dralle))
34. 03:52 PM - Re: 701 Arm rest/console (kmccune)
35. 04:10 PM - Re: RE : Re: Scratchbuilding Tools (Al Hays)
36. 04:17 PM - 4130N-or-not-N (Flydog1966@aol.com)
37. 04:37 PM - Re: Re: Roll over protection (David Downey)
38. 04:45 PM - Re: RE : Re: Scratchbuilding Tools (Ron Culver)
39. 05:06 PM - Re: ELT Position. (leinad)
40. 05:10 PM - Re: RE : Re: Scratchbuilding Tools (Graeme)
41. 05:15 PM - Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
42. 05:16 PM - Re: Rudder Nose Skin (Art Olechowski)
43. 05:34 PM - 701 Build Time (Dan)
44. 05:55 PM - Re: 4130N-or-not-N (LarryMcFarland)
45. 06:25 PM - Re: Re: Cost of scratch build versus kit build (Ron Lalonde)
46. 06:55 PM - Re: Hello all... (Joshua)
47. 07:45 PM - Re: Free forming sheet metal (Ron Lendon)
48. 07:45 PM - Glass Panels (Andrew Hinsdale)
49. 08:01 PM - Re: Rudder Nose Skin (Paul Riedlinger)
50. 08:24 PM - Re: Glass Panels (craig@craigandjean.com)
51. 08:32 PM - Re: Taildragger (Brad Cohen)
52. 09:54 PM - Re: Scratchbuilding Tools (mosquito56)
53. 10:09 PM - Re: Glass Panels (Paul Mulwitz)
54. 11:16 PM - Re: Glass Panels (DRAGONFUEL@aol.com)
Message 0
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| Subject: | [Please Read] Why I Have A Fund Raiser... |
Dear Listers,
Each year I like to explain why I have a Fund Raiser and also take the opportunity
to express why I think the List Services here provide a superior experience
over the commercial equivalents.
I use the List Fund Raiser each year to offset the costs involved with running
a high performance email list site such as this one. With the annual support from
the List members through the PBS-like Fund Raiser, I have found I can run
the entire site without having to inflect any of the members with those annoying
banner ads flashing up all the time trying to sell little-blue-pills or other
garbage nobody wants or needs. From the comments I've received over the years
regarding the Lists, the great majority of the members really appreciate the
non-commercialism of my List systems and don't mind my 'go-team-go' banter once
a year during November to encourage members to support the Lists.
I believe that the Lists services that I provide here offer many benefits over
the commercial equivalents in a number of ways. The first feature I believe to
be significant is that you cannot receive a computer v*rus from any of these
Lists directly. Each incoming message is filtered and dangerous attachments stripped
off prior to posting. I also provide a Photo and File Share feature that
allows members to share files and bitmaps with other members and everyone can
be assured that these files will be prescanned for any sort of v*rus before
they are posted. More recently, I have enabled limited posting of a number of
file formats including pictures and PDFs.
Another very important feature of this system in my opinion is the extensive List
Archives that are available for download, browsing, and searching. The Archives
go all the way back to the very beginning of each List and with the very
fast Search Engine, the huge size of some of the Archives is a non-issue in quickly
finding the data you're looking for.
And added just a couple of years ago is the new Email List Forum that allows members who prefer the Web BBS-style of List interaction. The beauty of the new List Forums is that they contain the exact same content that is distributed via email. Messages posted via email are cross-posted to the respective Forum and vice versa. The Forums also allow for another convenient method of sharing pictures and other files (http://forums.matronics.com ). Additionally, added recently is the List Wiki that allows members to build their own "Online List Encyclopedia" of sorts, documenting various aspects of their project for all to share ( http://wiki.matronics.com ).
I've been running email Lists and services under the matronics.com domain since
about 1989 starting with RV-List and 30 guys I knew and who where also building
RVs. It has grown into nearly 70 different aviation-related Email Lists and
an associated web site that receives over 34,000,000 hits each year!! Additionally,
the List Email system forwarded well over 77,000 postings last year, accounting
for an unbelievable 33,000,000 (yes, that's 33 MILLION) email messages
delivered to Matronics List subscribers! I think there's a lot of value in supporting
a service that has gone the long haul and is still providing and improving
a high quality service all _without any advertising budget_!
I have to admit running these Lists is a labor of love and I hope it shows in the
quality of the experience that you receive when you get a List Email Message,
Search the Archives, use the List Browser, or surf the Forums and Wiki sites.
The Lists will be here for a long time to come. If you just want to lurk a
while for free, that's great and I encourage you to do so. If you use, appreciate,
and receive value from these Lists, then please support them during the Annual
List Fund Raiser!
List Contribution Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Message 1
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| Subject: | Rudder Nose Skin |
Art,
If the gap is symmetrical to the centerline of flight (eg; the aircraft) and
it is securely riveted to both sides of the ribs, I would say that you
shouldn't sweat it. I cant imagine that it will affect the flight
characteristics that mush to have the rudder 1.5mm longer than specs. The
only thing I can think of is yo might have to adjust the position of the
saddle much much much later in your build.
Brad Cohen
XL/TD
>From: Art Olechowski <ifly4fun2@sbcglobal.net>
>To: Zenith Matornics list <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Zenith-List: Rudder Nose Skin
>Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 18:05:25 -0800 (PST)
>
>
>He all I have a dilemma with my nose skin on the rudder. When I drilled
>the holes through spar
>and nose skin I confirmed that both nose rib tips were flush with inside of
>the skin. But when I
>overlapped the nose skin on top the rear skin and clecoed in place both
>nose ribs contain about a
>1.5mm gap in between the skin. Both ribs have all the holes drilled in
>flanges. Have any of you
>experienced this and if so whats are the resolutions or recommendations?
>
>
>Thanks,
>Art
>701 Scratch builder .0005% Complete
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: 701 Build time |
Yep, me too:
Started 5/26/04 Completed 10/07/07 (my fault) airframe hours 1027, powerplant
hours 45, other 93 for a total of 1194 hours. BUT...I guess there's 1/4 to 1/2
that time I probably didn't log. There's no column in my Builder's Log tor
pondering... [Shocked]
--------
Low & Slow
Rick
www.n701rr.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147430#147430
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Free forming sheet metal |
Very nice! I've been wondering about those English wheel!
Kevin
--------
Kevin
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147436#147436
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend |
I have not run my 3300 yet but I m gettin close. I did own an Avid
Flyer with a 2200A for 13 years. The 2200 always ran hot. In fact I
never could get the temps on the EGT below 1375. Sometimes EGTs were in
the 1475 range.
I solved my worries one day by flying above the airport (3000agl) and
let her do what ever she wanted. The engine ran fine at 1475......
However I did have good CHTs. CHTs were in the 190 to 265 range.
At that time Jabiru didnt have EGTs on their factory Jabiru airplanes.
I guess they didnt want to know EGTs.
Today I think the hight EGTs are a result of placing the probes in the
wrong location. 100 mm is either too close or too far from the
flange..... CHTs are probably the best tell tail of how your engine is
doing..
SW
----- Original Message -----
From: Afterfxllc@aol.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 10:07 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
They need to have a "HOW TO MAKE YOUR JAB RUN COOL" seminar.
Seems like everyone I talk to with a jab in a 601 has overheating
problems, I just wonder if it is an engine problem more than a baffle
problem. My friend is trying to get his 601 to me to look at about this
but I told him I want to tare down the complete engine and check to see
how close the tolerances are from one cylinder to the next.
Jeff
In a message dated 11/19/2007 12:48:23 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
david.m.gallagher@ge.com writes:
<david.m.gallagher@ge.com>
Jabiru held a very informative Zenith 601/Jabiru FWF seminar this
past weekend at the Jabiru USA facility in TN. I had a good time and
got to meet some fellow Matronic's posters there. My thanks to seminar
leaders, Pete Krotje and Mark Stauffer, who were very patient with us as
well as Don Guice, who's airplane we used as the guinea pig. Jon Croke
was also there filming for an updated Homebuilt Help 101 video on this
topic. One of the things I was interested in seeing was the dual
throttle set-up. The latest ZAC firewall design requires some slight
modifications in the way the cross-rod installation is performed on the
top shelf. Nothing major, but you have to work around the front shelf
L-brackets and the U-channel on the back side. Look for updates from
Jabiru in the near future. We also went over the new oil cooler
installation. I understand that new instructions hit the Jabiru web
site just last week. Attached are a few pictures I took during the
class as well !
as a shot of Don and his airplane loaded into a 30' Penske truck.
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL, tail and wings completed,
fueslage almost done. Working engine and electrical systems.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147134#147134
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/jab_seminar_72_305.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/jab_seminar_53_131.jpg
http://forums.matronsp; (And Get Some AWESOME FREE find you
for -Matt Dralle, List he es y --> -
MATRONICS WEB FORUMS
=====================
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Free forming sheet metal |
Hey Ron, really nice looking work. Quick question
though, is it common to use 6061-T6 for metalworking
like that? I was under the impression that a softer
alloy was preferable.
Doug MacDonald
CH-701 Scratch Builder
NW Ontario, Canada
--- Ron Lendon <rlendon@comcast.net> wrote:
> <rlendon@comcast.net>
>
> A friend asked if I could make a scoop to replace
> the one on his 1946 Fairchild. I used a shot bag,
> english wheel, planishing hammer and various hammers
> to shape a flat piece of .040 6061-T6. Here is a
> link to some pictures of the first attempt.
>
> http://picasaweb.google.com/ron.lendon/FoxFairchild
>
> Do not archive
>
> --------
> Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
> Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
> http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Be a better pen pal.
Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how. http://overview.mail.yahoo.com/
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend |
His CHT's are all over the place most of the time well over 305. he has
tried 3 different baffle kits and has an a&p doing all the work but still can't
get the CHT's anywhere close to each other. That is one engine I would have
nothing to do with and I am not saying that because it isn't a Lycoming or
continental because I have 5 corvair's, it's just that a lot of builders can't
make the damn thing run cool. I guess they can justify the price increase
because it is one hot engine. LOL
Jeff
In a message dated 11/20/2007 8:20:17 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
notsew_evets@frontiernet.net writes:
I have not run my 3300 yet but I m gettin close. I did own an Avid Flyer
with a 2200A for 13 years. The 2200 always ran hot. In fact I never could
get the temps on the EGT below 1375. Sometimes EGTs were in the 1475 range.
I solved my worries one day by flying above the airport (3000agl) and let
her do what ever she wanted. The engine ran fine at 1475......
However I did have good CHTs. CHTs were in the 190 to 265 range.
At that time Jabiru didnt have EGTs on their factory Jabiru airplanes. I
guess they didnt want to know EGTs.
Today I think the hight EGTs are a result of placing the probes in the wrong
location. 100 mm is either too close or too far from the flange..... CHTs
are probably the best tell tail of how your engine is doing..
SW
----- Original Message -----
From: _Afterfxllc@aol.com_ (mailto:Afterfxllc@aol.com)
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 10:07 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
They need to have a "HOW TO MAKE YOUR JAB RUN COOL" seminar.
Seems like everyone I talk to with a jab in a 601 has overheating problems,
I just wonder if it is an engine problem more than a baffle problem. My
friend is trying to get his 601 to me to look at about this but I told him I want
to tare down the complete engine and check to see how close the tolerances
are from one cylinder to the next.
Jeff
In a message dated 11/19/2007 12:48:23 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
david.m.gallagher@ge.com writes:
Jabiru held a very informative Zenith 601/Jabiru FWF seminar this past
weekend at the Jabiru USA facility in TN. I had a good time and got to meet some
fellow Matronic's posters there. My thanks to seminar leaders, Pete Krotje
and Mark Stauffer, who were very patient with us as well as Don Guice, who's
airplane we used as the guinea pig. Jon Croke was also there filming for an
updated Homebuilt Help 101 video on this topic. One of the things I was
interested in seeing was the dual throttle set-up. The latest ZAC firewall
design requires some slight modifications in the way the cross-rod installation
is
performed on the top shelf. Nothing major, but you have to work around the
front shelf L-brackets and the U-channel on the back side. Look for updates
from Jabiru in the near future. We also went over the new oil cooler
installation. I understand that new instructions hit the Jabiru web site just
last
week. Attached are a few pictures I took during the class as well !
as a shot of Don and his airplane loaded into a 30' Penske truck.
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL, tail and wings completed,
fueslage almost done. Working engine and electrical systems.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147134#147134
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/jab_seminar_72_305.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/jab_seminar_53_131.jpg
http://forums.matronsp; (And Get Some AWESOME FREE find you for -Matt
Dralle, List he es y --> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS =====================
____________________________________
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref="http://
forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List)
Message 7
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| Subject: | Elevator Control Friction |
UK built XLs have a mandatory modification to replace the existing fairlead on
the fuselage frame with a pulley wheel mounted on fabricated brackets to reduce
the friction in the elevator control circuit.
Just a question for UK builders; can anyone tell me the thickness of the sheet
I should use or you used for the brackets?
Rob
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147445#147445
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Quick Question About 601XL Z-angles |
Hi Doug,
On my XL, the Z angles are only used around the fuselage bottom
door. I think the reason they give you extra pieces is because there
was (is?) a mistake on one of the drawings that shows the most
forward Z oriented backwards. I used up some of my stock to replace
that part after installing it the way the wrong drawing showed and
then used the rest of the stock finishing the door edging. I wrote
to ZAC to ask where it was also used to see if I needed to order
more, and got the response that it was only used there.
Paul
XL fuselage
At 06:16 PM 11/19/2007, you wrote:
>
>I'm placing an order for some parts from Zenith and realized, there
>seems to be a discrepancy (or I'm looking in the wrong place).
>
>Page 6B1 lists 6 pieces of Z-angle required. For the life of me, I
>can't see where more than 4 pieces are required (around the bottom
>hatch). Where else is this stuff used?
>
>Someone straighten this confused soul out, please.
>
>Doug
Message 9
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| Subject: | Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend |
It is not difficult to make a Jabiru run cool. In fact with a properly
designed cowl that provides the correct airflow it is more of a problem to
keep it warm enough in cooler months. In the last seven years we've sold
well over 1000 Jabiru engines and when they are coupled with an established
FWF kit they run cool. When builders put something together without the
proper engineering results can be unsatisfactory. We build FWF kits that
cool well in fast aircraft like the Lightning as well as slow aircraft like
a Kitfox or Zenith 701. It is not the engine that does not cool well.
If an owner installed a Corviar, Continental, or Lycoming using the same
cowl design he would have the same cooling results.
Pete
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Afterfxllc@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 7:30 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
His CHT's are all over the place most of the time well over 305. he has
tried 3 different baffle kits and has an a&p doing all the work but still
can't get the CHT's anywhere close to each other. That is one engine I would
have nothing to do with and I am not saying that because it isn't a Lycoming
or continental because I have 5 corvair's, it's just that a lot of builders
can't make the damn thing run cool. I guess they can justify the price
increase because it is one hot engine. LOL
Jeff
In a message dated 11/20/2007 8:20:17 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
notsew_evets@frontiernet.net writes:
I have not run my 3300 yet but I m gettin close. I did own an Avid Flyer
with a 2200A for 13 years. The 2200 always ran hot. In fact I never could
get the temps on the EGT below 1375. Sometimes EGTs were in the 1475 range.
I solved my worries one day by flying above the airport (3000agl) and let
her do what ever she wanted. The engine ran fine at 1475......
However I did have good CHTs. CHTs were in the 190 to 265 range.
At that time Jabiru didnt have EGTs on their factory Jabiru airplanes. I
guess they didnt want to know EGTs.
Today I think the hight EGTs are a result of placing the probes in the wrong
location. 100 mm is either too close or too far from the flange..... CHTs
are probably the best tell tail of how your engine is doing..
SW
----- Original Message -----
From: Afterfxllc@aol.com
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 10:07 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
They need to have a "HOW TO MAKE YOUR JAB RUN COOL" seminar.
Seems like everyone I talk to with a jab in a 601 has overheating problems,
I just wonder if it is an engine problem more than a baffle problem. My
friend is trying to get his 601 to me to look at about this but I told him I
want to tare down the complete engine and check to see how close the
tolerances are from one cylinder to the next.
Jeff
In a message dated 11/19/2007 12:48:23 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
david.m.gallagher@ge.com writes:
Jabiru held a very informative Zenith 601/Jabiru FWF seminar this past
weekend at the Jabiru USA facility in TN. I had a good time and got to meet
some fellow Matronic's posters there. My thanks to seminar leaders, Pete
Krotje and Mark Stauffer, who were very patient with us as well as Don
Guice, who's airplane we used as the guinea pig. Jon Croke was also there
filming for an updated Homebuilt Help 101 video on this topic. One of the
things I was interested in seeing was the dual throttle set-up. The latest
ZAC firewall design requires some slight modifications in the way the
cross-rod installation is performed on the top shelf. Nothing major, but
you have to work around the front shelf L-brackets and the U-channel on the
back side. Look for updates from Jabiru in the near future. We also went
over the new oil cooler installation. I understand that new instructions
hit the Jabiru web site just last week. Attached are a few pictures I took
during the class as well !
as a shot of Don and his airplane loaded into a 30' Penske truck.
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL, tail and wings completed,
fueslage almost done. Working engine and electrical systems.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147134#147134
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/jab_seminar_72_305.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/jab_seminar_53_131.jpg
http://forums.matronsp; (And Get Some AWESOME FREE find you for
-Matt Dralle, List he es y --> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS
=====================
_____
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref="http
://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
f="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronics.com/
Navigator?Zenith-List
.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
_____
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder Nose Skin |
Art,
One solution is pre-drilled shims taped in place before assembly.
Been there and done that on rib height, but you have to be careful and
cleco check the result.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Art Olechowski wrote:
>
> He all I have a dilemma with my nose skin on the rudder. When I drilled the
holes through spar
> and nose skin I confirmed that both nose rib tips were flush with inside of the
skin. But when I
> overlapped the nose skin on top the rear skin and clecoed in place both nose
ribs contain about a
> 1.5mm gap in between the skin. Both ribs have all the holes drilled in flanges.
Have any of you
> experienced this and if so whats are the resolutions or recommendations?
>
>
> Thanks,
> Art
> 701 Scratch builder .0005% Complete
>
>
>
Message 11
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There are changes in the forward fuselage and the wing stubs for the
tail dragger.
Aaron 601 HDTD 40+ hours
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Roll over protection |
I put roll over protection in my HD but it involved changing the turtle
deck. One plus side though was that I did not buy a $1000 canopy but
made my own from unbreakable and easily replaceable Lexan for less than
$100.
Aaron Gustafson
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v220/AGCB2/My%20601%20HDTD/E-1stlanding
wave.jpg
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Roll over protection |
Do you have some more photos of your canopy that you could post or mail to me off
list?
agustafson(at)chartermi.n wrote:
> I put roll over protection in my HD but it involved changing the turtle deck.
One plus side though was that I did not buy a $1000 canopy but made my own
from unbreakable and easily replaceable Lexan for less than $100.
>
> Aaron Gustafson
>
>
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147468#147468
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend |
That's funny you say that because I have talked to a lot of Jab. owners wit
h
the 601 and hear the same story time and time again. The one thing I hear
most is # 6 is over 350. I think I know what the problem is and when I get i
t
here I will see if I'm correct but to say the Jab. 3300 doesn't run hot is a
stretch and to say it is hard to keep it warm enough is really a stretch. I'
m
only talking about the 601xl also I don't know about other planes. I do kno
w
from talking to Sabastion that one other water cooled power plant in the 60
1
had a problem cooling also.
In a message dated 11/20/2007 9:20:14 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
pete@usjabiru.com writes:
It is not difficult to make a Jabiru run cool. In fact with a properly
designed cowl that provides the correct airflow it is more of a problem to
keep
it warm enough in cooler months. In the last seven years we=99ve sol
d well over
1000 Jabiru engines and when they are coupled with an established FWF kit
they run cool. When builders put something together without the proper
engineering results can be unsatisfactory. We build FWF kits that cool wel
l in
fast aircraft like the Lightning as well as slow aircraft like a Kitfox or
Zenith 701. It is not the engine that does not cool well.
If an owner installed a Corviar, Continental, or Lycoming using the same
cowl design he would have the same cooling results.
Pete
____________________________________
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Afterfxllc@aol
.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 7:30 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
His CHT's are all over the place most of the time well over 305. he has
tried 3 different baffle kits and has an a&p doing all the work but still c
an't
get the CHT's anywhere close to each other. That is one engine I would have
nothing to do with and I am not saying that because it isn't a Lycoming or
continental because I have 5 corvair's, it's just that a lot of builders ca
n't
make the damn thing run cool. I guess they can justify the price increase
because it is one hot engine. LOL
Jeff
In a message dated 11/20/2007 8:20:17 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
notsew_evets@frontiernet.net writes:
I have not run my 3300 yet but I m gettin close. I did own an Avid Flyer
with a 2200A for 13 years. The 2200 always ran hot. In fact I never cou
ld
get the temps on the EGT below 1375. Sometimes EGTs were in the 1475 range
.
I solved my worries one day by flying above the airport (3000agl) and let
her do what ever she wanted. The engine ran fine at 1475......
However I did have good CHTs. CHTs were in the 190 to 265 range.
At that time Jabiru didnt have EGTs on their factory Jabiru airplanes. I
guess they didnt want to know EGTs.
Today I think the hight EGTs are a result of placing the probes in the wron
g
location. 100 mm is either too close or too far from the flange..... CHTs
are probably the best tell tail of how your engine is doing..
SW
----- Original Message -----
From: _Afterfxllc@aol.com_ (mailto:Afterfxllc@aol.com)
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 10:07 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
They need to have a "HOW TO MAKE YOUR JAB RUN COOL" seminar.
Seems like everyone I talk to with a jab in a 601 has overheating problems,
I just wonder if it is an engine problem more than a baffle problem. My
friend is trying to get his 601 to me to look at about this but I told him
I want
to tare down the complete engine and check to see how close the tolerances
are from one cylinder to the next.
Jeff
In a message dated 11/19/2007 12:48:23 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
david.m.gallagher@ge.com writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher@ge.com>
Jabiru held a very informative Zenith 601/Jabiru FWF seminar this past
weekend at the Jabiru USA facility in TN. I had a good time and got to mee
t some
fellow Matronic's posters there. My thanks to seminar leaders, Pete Krotj
e
and Mark Stauffer, who were very patient with us as well as Don Guice, who'
s
airplane we used as the guinea pig. Jon Croke was also there filming for a
n
updated Homebuilt Help 101 video on this topic. One of the things I was
interested in seeing was the dual throttle set-up. The latest ZAC firewall
design requires some slight modifications in the way the cross-rod installa
tion is
performed on the top shelf. Nothing major, but you have to work around the
front shelf L-brackets and the U-channel on the back side. Look for update
s
from Jabiru in the near future. We also went over the new oil cooler
installation. I understand that new instructions hit the Jabiru web site j
ust last
week. Attached are a few pictures I took during the class as well !
as a shot of Don and his airplane loaded into a 30' Penske truck.
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL, tail and wings completed,
fueslage almost done. Working engine and electrical systems.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147134#147134
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/jab_seminar_72_305.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/jab_seminar_53_131.jpg
http://forums.matronsp; (And Get Some AWESOME FREE find you for
-Matt Dralle, List he es y --> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS
=====================
____________________________________
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chre
f="h
ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref="http
://f
orums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
f="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronics.co
m/Na
vigator?Zenith-List
.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
____________________________________
_http://www.matronics.com/contribution_
ator
=
uch much
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List)
great content
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Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend |
Have 320 hrs on my Jab in my XL.
Have last gen cowling and engine.
New engines have more cooling fin area, changed ram air ducts, and latest
cowling has been redesigned - for more cooliing.
Recommend to you friend that if the standard recommended Jab deflectors in
the ram air ducts do not give him the cooling he needs (In mine, I could not
keep full power in a steep climb in high OAT for very long without
approaching red line on CHT) then have him see JSB 015 -1. I added about a
30mm extension to the lower lip of my cowling. At high OAT (mid to high 90s
F) I can now climb out at a higher angle for a much much longer time at high
power.
Tony Graziano; N493TG/Jab 3300
-----------
Time: 09:07:59 PM PST US
From: Afterfxllc@aol.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
They need to have a "HOW TO MAKE YOUR JAB RUN COOL" seminar.
Seems like everyone I talk to with a jab in a 601 has overheating problems,
I just wonder if it is an engine problem more than a baffle problem. My
friend
is trying to get his 601 to me to look at about this but I told him I want
to tare down the complete engine and check to see how close the tolerances
are
from one cylinder to the next.
Jeff
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend |
He added the lip to the lower cowling but it did very little. He also has
the Cowling from zenith for the Jab. I haven't seen it but it is coming my way
on a trailer so I can try and fix it or replace it with a corvair. And I
disagree with Pete, baffling isn't rocket science there are thousands of planes
out their flying and most of the builders never made baffling before and they
don't have this problem, I want to tare down the engine and check the
tolerances of the cylinders and see if there was or is a problem with the machining.
I also think a lower baffle under the jugs is the answer. Lycoming has them
continental has them and I know if you don't put them on the corvair it will
over heat also I was told they don't have them I don't know never studied one
very close. Another problem is the fins I believe are smooth and rough fins
cool better. Sand blasting them might help. It is a simple matter of not only
getting the air where you need it but keeping it there long enough to allow
the heat to transfer and smooth fins don't disturb the air that flows over
it. It is apparent to me that they knew they had a cooling problem otherwise
they wouldn't have added more fins would they.
Don't take this the wrong way I would like to help try and find an answer to
this problem and I am in no way saying Jab is a bad engine or trying to start
a pissing contest with Jab. but to put your head in the sand and say there
is no problem is doing a disservice to not only themselves but every builder
that supports them and buys their engine.
In a message dated 11/20/2007 10:46:16 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
tonyplane@bellsouth.net writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "T. Graziano" <tonyplane@bellsouth.net>
Have 320 hrs on my Jab in my XL.
Have last gen cowling and engine.
New engines have more cooling fin area, changed ram air ducts, and latest
cowling has been redesigned - for more cooliing.
Recommend to you friend that if the standard recommended Jab deflectors in
the ram air ducts do not give him the cooling he needs (In mine, I could not
keep full power in a steep climb in high OAT for very long without
approaching red line on CHT) then have him see JSB 015 -1. I added about a
30mm extension to the lower lip of my cowling. At high OAT (mid to high 90s
F) I can now climb out at a higher angle for a much much longer time at high
power.
Tony Graziano; N493TG/Jab 3300
-----------
Time: 09:07:59 PM PST US
From: Afterfxllc@aol.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
They need to have a "HOW TO MAKE YOUR JAB RUN COOL" seminar.
Seems like everyone I talk to with a jab in a 601 has overheating problems,
I just wonder if it is an engine problem more than a baffle problem. My
friend
is trying to get his 601 to me to look at about this but I told him I want
to tare down the complete engine and check to see how close the tolerances
are
from one cylinder to the next.
Jeff
Message 17
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|
| Subject: | Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend |
I have to agree with Pete. I live in Wisconsin and in summer I hardly
ever get a CHT reading over 300F.
Now that the onset of winter is coming I have to add some deflectors to
keep the temperatures higher. I flew the other day, 25 degrees, and a
couple of cylinders were between 160 and 180 degrees. I have the older
style 3300 without the additional cooling fins. I also have the older
style RAM air cooling ducts with the ignition wires on the outside. My
installation is exactly like JabirueUSA suggests. I added deflectors,
inside the RAM air ducts, so air would flow through the middle two and
last two cylinders. If anything, I would like to know what people of
done (who fly in cold weather) to keep their CHT's higher.
Randy
----- Original Message -----
From: Afterfxllc@aol.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 9:18 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
That's funny you say that because I have talked to a lot of Jab.
owners with the 601 and hear the same story time and time again. The one
thing I hear most is # 6 is over 350. I think I know what the problem is
and when I get it here I will see if I'm correct but to say the Jab.
3300 doesn't run hot is a stretch and to say it is hard to keep it warm
enough is really a stretch. I'm only talking about the 601xl also I
don't know about other planes. I do know from talking to Sabastion that
one other water cooled power plant in the 601 had a problem cooling
also.
In a message dated 11/20/2007 9:20:14 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
pete@usjabiru.com writes:
It is not difficult to make a Jabiru run cool. In fact with a
properly designed cowl that provides the correct airflow it is more of a
problem to keep it warm enough in cooler months. In the last seven
years we=99ve sold well over 1000 Jabiru engines and when they are
coupled with an established FWF kit they run cool. When builders put
something together without the proper engineering results can be
unsatisfactory. We build FWF kits that cool well in fast aircraft like
the Lightning as well as slow aircraft like a Kitfox or Zenith 701. It
is not the engine that does not cool well.
If an owner installed a Corviar, Continental, or Lycoming using the
same cowl design he would have the same cooling results.
Pete
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Afterfxllc@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 7:30 AM
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
His CHT's are all over the place most of the time well over 305. he
has tried 3 different baffle kits and has an a&p doing all the work but
still can't get the CHT's anywhere close to each other. That is one
engine I would have nothing to do with and I am not saying that because
it isn't a Lycoming or continental because I have 5 corvair's, it's just
that a lot of builders can't make the damn thing run cool. I guess they
can justify the price increase because it is one hot engine. LOL
Jeff
In a message dated 11/20/2007 8:20:17 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
notsew_evets@frontiernet.net writes:
I have not run my 3300 yet but I m gettin close. I did own an
Avid Flyer with a 2200A for 13 years. The 2200 always ran hot. In
fact I never could get the temps on the EGT below 1375. Sometimes EGTs
were in the 1475 range.
I solved my worries one day by flying above the airport (3000agl)
and let her do what ever she wanted. The engine ran fine at 1475......
However I did have good CHTs. CHTs were in the 190 to 265 range.
At that time Jabiru didnt have EGTs on their factory Jabiru
airplanes. I guess they didnt want to know EGTs.
Today I think the hight EGTs are a result of placing the probes in
the wrong location. 100 mm is either too close or too far from the
flange..... CHTs are probably the best tell tail of how your engine is
doing..
SW
----- Original Message -----
From: Afterfxllc@aol.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 10:07 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past
Weekend
They need to have a "HOW TO MAKE YOUR JAB RUN COOL" seminar.
Seems like everyone I talk to with a jab in a 601 has
overheating problems, I just wonder if it is an engine problem more than
a baffle problem. My friend is trying to get his 601 to me to look at
about this but I told him I want to tare down the complete engine and
check to see how close the tolerances are from one cylinder to the next.
Jeff
In a message dated 11/19/2007 12:48:23 P.M. Eastern Standard
Time, david.m.gallagher@ge.com writes:
<david.m.gallagher@ge.com>
Jabiru held a very informative Zenith 601/Jabiru FWF seminar
this past weekend at the Jabiru USA facility in TN. I had a good time
and got to meet some fellow Matronic's posters there. My thanks to
seminar leaders, Pete Krotje and Mark Stauffer, who were very patient
with us as well as Don Guice, who's airplane we used as the guinea pig.
Jon Croke was also there filming for an updated Homebuilt Help 101 video
on this topic. One of the things I was interested in seeing was the
dual throttle set-up. The latest ZAC firewall design requires some
slight modifications in the way the cross-rod installation is performed
on the top shelf. Nothing major, but you have to work around the front
shelf L-brackets and the U-channel on the back side. Look for updates
from Jabiru in the near future. We also went over the new oil cooler
installation. I understand that new instructions hit the Jabiru web
site just last week. Attached are a few pictures I took during the
class as well !
as a shot of Don and his airplane loaded into a 30' Penske
truck.
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL, tail and wings completed,
fueslage almost done. Working engine and electrical systems.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147134#147134
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/jab_seminar_72_305.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/jab_seminar_53_131.jpg
http://forums.matronsp; (And Get Some AWESOME FREE
find you for -Matt Dralle, List he es y -->
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS
=====================
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Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Scratchbuilding Tools |
I've hung back w/o adding yet another source, but, I guess I'll go ahead. I
bought mine from
http://rjrcooltools.com/
It was $8 with no shipping charges; prompt and courteous service. RJR
appears to be a small business that supplies high quality tools for
modelers. The owner was surprised that I was going to use it to cut
aluminum, but he has since added that to his product description.
I have no connection with RJR, other than as a satisfied customer.
Terry
At 06:41 PM 11/19/2007 -0800, you wrote:
>Check in art/craft supply stores. None of my local hardware stores carry
>the Olfa P-800 but most of the craft stores do.
>
>William Dominguez
>Zodiac 601XL Plans
>Miami Florida
Terry Phillips
ttp44~at~rkymtn.net
Corvallis MT
601XL/Jab 3300 slow build kit - Rudder done--finally; working on the stab
http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder Nose Skin |
Larry,
Can you elaborate some, the shims would attach to which holes? the rib flange holes
aft of the
spar?
Art
--- LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com> wrote:
>
> Art,
> One solution is pre-drilled shims taped in place before assembly.
> Been there and done that on rib height, but you have to be careful and
> cleco check the result.
>
> Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
>
> Art Olechowski wrote:
> >
> > He all I have a dilemma with my nose skin on the rudder. When I drilled the
holes through
> spar
> > and nose skin I confirmed that both nose rib tips were flush with inside of
the skin. But
> when I
> > overlapped the nose skin on top the rear skin and clecoed in place both nose
ribs contain
> about a
> > 1.5mm gap in between the skin. Both ribs have all the holes drilled in flanges.
Have any of
> you
> > experienced this and if so whats are the resolutions or recommendations?
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Art
> > 701 Scratch builder .0005% Complete
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 20
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|
| Subject: | RE : RE: Scratchbuilding Tools |
I second Bryan's remark. After looking for an Olfa 800 for a while with no luck,
I realized that I got satisfactory results from just a plain old utility knife.
I have found that I cut way more aluminum with a knife that with shears.
Before starting this project, I would not have thought that was possible.
Good luck,
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL, tail and wings completed,
fueslage almost done. Working engine and electrical systems.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147526#147526
Message 21
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|
| Subject: | Re: Roll over protection |
I hate to ask a really dumb question, but ...
Just what is a "turtle deck," and why is it call that?
Thanks.
do not archive
Terry
At 08:53 AM 11/20/2007 -0600, you wrote:
>I put roll over protection in my HD but it involved changing the turtle
>deck. One plus side though was that I did not buy a $1000 canopy but made
>my own from unbreakable and easily replaceable Lexan for less than $100.
>
>Aaron Gustafson
Terry Phillips
ttp44~at~rkymtn.net
Corvallis MT
601XL/Jab 3300 slow build kit - Rudder done--finally; working on the stab
http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend |
Again,
The only time I have had a problem was when I would try climbing at high
power and low airspeed (high angle of attack) on a HOT day, for any
extended period of time - after I installed deflectors in the ducts.
The deflectors for #3 and #5 must be small, (about 3/4 inch flange X 2
to 3 inches at about 30/40 degree bend - experiment with them) or they
will, in my experience, have a detrimental effect on cooling #5 and #5.
I installed the extension to my cowling lower lip before the Jab SB and
unless the day is REALLY HOT, I can climb out at full power continuously
- (Not a normal operation for me though)
My hottest cyl is usually #2. (the one in front on the left side)
My cowling was part of the Jab FWF kit received in Nov 05, not the older
one once provided through Zenith. It is not the latest improved one
provided in the current Jab USA FWF kits.
.
When it is cold out, about 50 deg F and below, I am usually careful
descending and come down under power as all my CHTs go below 190F very
easily. I have not flown on really cold days with the cowling extension
- I should hope I will not have a too cold type problem. (You may have
also heard that the Jab is hard to start on really cold days - NOT SO!.
Just follow Jab USA's advice - it works, in my experience, down to 10F/
- 12C.)
You may wish to check the prop on your friends airplane. If it is not a
Sensenich Jab approved or Jab prop, there could be a major problem with
getting enough air into the intakes.
Also recommend check to see if the oil cooler opening is sealed
sufficiently enough to pass most of the air through the cooler only.
Tony Graziano
XL with 321.2 really enjoyable flying hours behind a smooth running,
easily maintained, Jab 3300
---------------
Subject: Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
From: Afterfxllc@aol.com
Date: Tue Nov 20 - 8:21 AM
He added the lip to the lower cowling but it did very little. He also
has
the Cowling from zenith for the Jab. I haven't seen it but it is coming
my way
on a trailer so I can try and fix it or replace it with a corvair. And I
disagree with Pete, baffling isn't rocket science there are thousands
of planes
out their flying and most of the builders never made baffling before
and they
don't have this problem, I want to tare down the engine and check the
tolerances of the cylinders and see if there was or is a problem with
the machining.
I also think a lower baffle under the jugs is the answer. Lycoming has
them
continental has them and I know if you don't put them on the corvair it
will
over heat also I was told they don't have them I don't know never
studied one
very close. Another problem is the fins I believe are smooth and rough
fins
cool better. Sand blasting them might help. It is a simple matter of
not only
getting the air where you need it but keeping it there long enough to
allow
the heat to transfer and smooth fins don't disturb the air that flows
over
it. It is apparent to me that they knew they had a cooling problem
otherwise
they wouldn't have added more fins would they.
Don't take this the wrong way I would like to help try and find an
answer to
this problem and I am in no way saying Jab is a bad engine or trying to
start
a pissing contest with Jab. but to put your head in the sand and say
there
is no problem is doing a disservice to not only themselves but every
builder
that supports them and buys their engine.
In a message dated 11/20/2007 10:46:16 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
tonyplane@bellsouth.net writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "T. Graziano"
<tonyplane@bellsouth.net>
Have 320 hrs on my Jab in my XL.
Have last gen cowling and engine.
New engines have more cooling fin area, changed ram air ducts, and
latest
cowling has been redesigned - for more cooliing.
Recommend to you friend that if the standard recommended Jab deflectors
in
the ram air ducts do not give him the cooling he needs (In mine, I
could not
keep full power in a steep climb in high OAT for very long without
approaching red line on CHT) then have him see JSB 015 -1. I added
about a
30mm extension to the lower lip of my cowling. At high OAT (mid to
high 90s
F) I can now climb out at a higher angle for a much much longer time at
high
power.
Tony Graziano; N493TG/Jab 3300Subject: Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar
This Past Weekend From: Randy (rpf@wi.rr.com) Date: Tue Nov 20
- 9:13 AM I have to agree with Pete. I live in Wisconsin and in summer
I hardly
ever get a CHT reading over 300F.
Now that the onset of winter is coming I have to add some deflectors to
keep the temperatures higher. I flew the other day, 25 degrees, and a
couple of cylinders were between 160 and 180 degrees. I have the older
style 3300 without the additional cooling fins. I also have the older
style RAM air cooling ducts with the ignition wires on the outside. My
installation is exactly like JabirueUSA suggests. I added deflectors,
inside the RAM air ducts, so air would flow through the middle two and
last two cylinders. If anything, I would like to know what people of
done (who fly in cold weather) to keep their CHT's higher.
Randy
----- Original Message -----
From: Afterfxllc@aol.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 9:18 AM
Subject: Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
That's funny you say that because I have talked to a lot of Jab.
owners with the 601 and hear the same story time and time again. The one
thing I hear most is # 6 is over 350. I think I know what the problem is
and when I get it here I will see if I'm correct but to say the Jab.
3300 doesn't run hot is a stretch and to say it is hard to keep it warm
enough is really a stretch. I'm only talking about the 601xl also I
don't know about other planes. I do know from talking to Sabastion that
one other water cooled power plant in the 601 had a problem cooling
also.
In a message dated 11/20/2007 9:20:14 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
pete@usjabiru.com writes:
It is not difficult to make a Jabiru run cool. In fact with a
properly designed cowl that provides the correct airflow it is more of a
problem to keep it warm enough in cooler months. In the last seven
years we=99ve sold well over 1000 Jabiru engines and when they are
coupled with an established FWF kit they run cool. When builders put
something together without the proper engineering results can be
unsatisfactory. We build FWF kits that cool well in fast aircraft like
the Lightning as well as slow aircraft like a Kitfox or Zenith 701. It
is not the engine that does not cool well.
If an owner installed a Corviar, Continental, or Lycoming using the
same cowl design he would have the same cooling results.
Pete
-----------
Time: 09:07:59 PM PST US
From: Afterfxllc@aol.com
Subject: Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
They need to have a "HOW TO MAKE YOUR JAB RUN COOL" seminar.
Seems like everyone I talk to with a jab in a 601 has overheating
problems,
I just wonder if it is an engine problem more than a baffle problem. My
friend
is trying to get his 601 to me to look at about this but I told him I
want
to tare down the complete engine and check to see how close the
tolerances
are
from one cylinder to the next.
Jeff
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend |
One minor correction - I received my cowling in Nov 04 vice 05.
Tony Graziano
----- Original Message -----
From: T. Graziano
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 3:05 PM
Subject: Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
Again,
The only time I have had a problem was when I would try climbing at
high power and low airspeed (high angle of attack) on a HOT day, for any
extended period of time - after I installed deflectors in the ducts.
The deflectors for #3 and #5 must be small, (about 3/4 inch flange X 2
to 3 inches at about 30/40 degree bend - experiment with them) or they
will, in my experience, have a detrimental effect on cooling #5 and #5.
I installed the extension to my cowling lower lip before the Jab SB
and unless the day is REALLY HOT, I can climb out at full power
continuously - (Not a normal operation for me though)
My hottest cyl is usually #2. (the one in front on the left side)
My cowling was part of the Jab FWF kit received in Nov 05, not the
older one once provided through Zenith. It is not the latest improved
one provided in the current Jab USA FWF kits.
.
When it is cold out, about 50 deg F and below, I am usually careful
descending and come down under power as all my CHTs go below 190F very
easily. I have not flown on really cold days with the cowling extension
- I should hope I will not have a too cold type problem. (You may have
also heard that the Jab is hard to start on really cold days - NOT SO!.
Just follow Jab USA's advice - it works, in my experience, down to 10F/
- 12C.)
You may wish to check the prop on your friends airplane. If it is not
a Sensenich Jab approved or Jab prop, there could be a major problem
with getting enough air into the intakes.
Also recommend check to see if the oil cooler opening is sealed
sufficiently enough to pass most of the air through the cooler only.
Tony Graziano
XL with 321.2 really enjoyable flying hours behind a smooth running,
easily maintained, Jab 3300
---------------
Subject: Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
From: Afterfxllc@aol.com
Date: Tue Nov 20 - 8:21 AM
He added the lip to the lower cowling but it did very little. He also
has
the Cowling from zenith for the Jab. I haven't seen it but it is coming
my way
on a trailer so I can try and fix it or replace it with a corvair. And I
disagree with Pete, baffling isn't rocket science there are thousands
of planes
out their flying and most of the builders never made baffling before
and they
don't have this problem, I want to tare down the engine and check the
tolerances of the cylinders and see if there was or is a problem with
the machining.
I also think a lower baffle under the jugs is the answer. Lycoming has
them
continental has them and I know if you don't put them on the corvair it
will
over heat also I was told they don't have them I don't know never
studied one
very close. Another problem is the fins I believe are smooth and rough
fins
cool better. Sand blasting them might help. It is a simple matter of
not only
getting the air where you need it but keeping it there long enough to
allow
the heat to transfer and smooth fins don't disturb the air that flows
over
it. It is apparent to me that they knew they had a cooling problem
otherwise
they wouldn't have added more fins would they.
Don't take this the wrong way I would like to help try and find an
answer to
this problem and I am in no way saying Jab is a bad engine or trying to
start
a pissing contest with Jab. but to put your head in the sand and say
there
is no problem is doing a disservice to not only themselves but every
builder
that supports them and buys their engine.
In a message dated 11/20/2007 10:46:16 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
tonyplane@bellsouth.net writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "T. Graziano"
<tonyplane@bellsouth.net>
Have 320 hrs on my Jab in my XL.
Have last gen cowling and engine.
New engines have more cooling fin area, changed ram air ducts, and
latest
cowling has been redesigned - for more cooliing.
Recommend to you friend that if the standard recommended Jab deflectors
in
the ram air ducts do not give him the cooling he needs (In mine, I
could not
keep full power in a steep climb in high OAT for very long without
approaching red line on CHT) then have him see JSB 015 -1. I added
about a
30mm extension to the lower lip of my cowling. At high OAT (mid to
high 90s
F) I can now climb out at a higher angle for a much much longer time at
high
power.
Tony Graziano; N493TG/Jab 3300Subject: Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar
This Past Weekend From: Randy (rpf@wi.rr.com) Date: Tue Nov 20
- 9:13 AM I have to agree with Pete. I live in Wisconsin and in summer
I hardly
ever get a CHT reading over 300F.
Now that the onset of winter is coming I have to add some deflectors to
keep the temperatures higher. I flew the other day, 25 degrees, and a
couple of cylinders were between 160 and 180 degrees. I have the older
style 3300 without the additional cooling fins. I also have the older
style RAM air cooling ducts with the ignition wires on the outside. My
installation is exactly like JabirueUSA suggests. I added deflectors,
inside the RAM air ducts, so air would flow through the middle two and
last two cylinders. If anything, I would like to know what people of
done (who fly in cold weather) to keep their CHT's higher.
Randy
----- Original Message -----
From: Afterfxllc@aol.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 9:18 AM
Subject: Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
That's funny you say that because I have talked to a lot of Jab.
owners with the 601 and hear the same story time and time again. The one
thing I hear most is # 6 is over 350. I think I know what the problem is
and when I get it here I will see if I'm correct but to say the Jab.
3300 doesn't run hot is a stretch and to say it is hard to keep it warm
enough is really a stretch. I'm only talking about the 601xl also I
don't know about other planes. I do know from talking to Sabastion that
one other water cooled power plant in the 601 had a problem cooling
also.
In a message dated 11/20/2007 9:20:14 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
pete@usjabiru.com writes:
It is not difficult to make a Jabiru run cool. In fact with a
properly designed cowl that provides the correct airflow it is more of a
problem to keep it warm enough in cooler months. In the last seven
years we=99ve sold well over 1000 Jabiru engines and when they are
coupled with an established FWF kit they run cool. When builders put
something together without the proper engineering results can be
unsatisfactory. We build FWF kits that cool well in fast aircraft like
the Lightning as well as slow aircraft like a Kitfox or Zenith 701. It
is not the engine that does not cool well.
If an owner installed a Corviar, Continental, or Lycoming using the
same cowl design he would have the same cooling results.
Pete
-----------
Time: 09:07:59 PM PST US
From: Afterfxllc@aol.com
Subject: Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
They need to have a "HOW TO MAKE YOUR JAB RUN COOL" seminar.
Seems like everyone I talk to with a jab in a 601 has overheating
problems,
I just wonder if it is an engine problem more than a baffle problem. My
friend
is trying to get his 601 to me to look at about this but I told him I
want
to tare down the complete engine and check to see how close the
tolerances
are
from one cylinder to the next.
Jeff
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator Control Friction |
Rob: I am also interested in the sheet-thickness of the bracket. For the ones who
don't know the link to the modification, here it is:
http://www.pfa.org.uk/Standard%20Mods/162_SM10366.pdf
Cheers Martin
--------
Martin Pohl
Zodiac XL QBK
8645 Jona, Switzerland
www.pohltec.ch/ZodiacXL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147551#147551
Message 25
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|
| Subject: | Re: Roll over protection |
Turtle Deck is not an official aircraft term but it is top area of the fuselage
behind the cockpit.
It's called that because it is shaped like the top of a turtle.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147552#147552
Message 26
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| Subject: | Emailing: tommy929 004 |
Turtle Deck...........
The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link
attachments:
tommy929 004
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Roll over protection |
Terry, Back in the "Olden Days", circa 1938 or so, the trunk lid of most cars was
humped and looked somewhat like a turtle shell. So the trunk lid became called
the "turtle deck" or just "turtle". The trunk, of course, was just behind
the passenger compartment. It just carried over in aviation to that part of
the fuselage that is just behind the passenger compartment, the "turtle deck".
Jay in Dallas
Do not archive
Terry Phillips <ttp44@rkymtn.net> wrote:
>I hate to ask a really dumb question, but ...
>
>Just what is a "turtle deck," and why is it call that?
>
>Thanks.
>
>do not archive
>
>Terry
>
>At 08:53 AM 11/20/2007 -0600, you wrote:
>>I put roll over protection in my HD but it involved changing the turtle
>>deck. One plus side though was that I did not buy a $1000 canopy but made
>>my own from unbreakable and easily replaceable Lexan for less than $100.
>>
>>Aaron Gustafson
>
>
>Terry Phillips
>ttp44~at~rkymtn.net
>Corvallis MT
>601XL/Jab 3300 slow build kit - Rudder done--finally; working on the stab
>http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/
>
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | Re: Scratchbuilding Tools |
Actually, it's just the blade; fits in a regular utility knife handle.
While nice to have, it isn't really necessary. When I needed to repalce
a trashed leading edge skin for the XL, a guy at Airparts in KC KS
showed me the cutting technique using just a regular utility knife. Held
it upside down in a hammer grip, scored about 10 times along a straight
edge, and bent it on the edge of the table. It broke clean as a whistle,
and I was on my way in less than ten minutes. Whenever my Olfa blade
isn't immediately to hand, I use a regular utility knife almost as
easily.. P.S. A guy who spent mucho years making big aluminum signs
turned me on to a neat way to make large cuts. His was a production
business, so they needed to work fast. He said to get a 4 x 8 sheet of
styrofoam, 4 or more inches thick, lay the sheet on it, and use a saber
saw to cut. Apparently there is such a thing as "blade Wax", which you
can get at Lowe's or Home Depot to use as lube. It may be necessary to
grind off an inch or so from the blade. He said you never go all the
way through the foam, so can use it over and over. I haven't tried it
yet, but it makes sense, and next time I need to make larger cuts I'll
give it a try. (I consider the day wasted if I don't learn something,
and catch hell from somebody).
Paul Rodriguez
----- Original Message -----
From: Al Hays<mailto:alhays@hickoryhillfarmsheep.com>
To: zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 4:02 PM
Subject: Re: RE : RE: Zenith-List: Scratchbuilding Tools
<alhays@hickoryhillfarmsheep.com<mailto:alhays@hickoryhillfarmsheep.com>>
Paul,
No Olfa brand knives are carried in the True Value or Ace Hardware
stores in my area. Didn't see them in Lowe's or Home Depot either
last
time I trekked to town. They all carry various types of utility
knives
which might work, and some are only around $2.50 but most of any
quality are more than 6 or 8 bucks. I'm surprised that an Ace
Hardware
would be able to sell an Olfa P-800 for a whole lot less but its good
that you and others in your area can take advantage of that.
Al
On Nov 19, 2007, at 12:59 PM,
<paulrod36@msn.com<mailto:paulrod36@msn.com>> wrote:
> $8.48? Wow. Ace Hardware carries them at a whole
> lot less. Look in the aisle with the utility knives.
>
> Paul Rodriguez
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Al Hays
>> To: zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 7:58 PM
>> Subject: Re: RE : RE: Zenith-List: Scratchbuilding Tools
>>
>>
<alhays@hickoryhillfarmsheep.com<mailto:alhays@hickoryhillfarmsheep.com>>
>>
>> Bob,
>>
>> I found it online at OLFABLADES.COM and got extra blades and
another
>> knife to get more bang for buck on the shipping cost. It is listed
as
>> a heavy-duty plastic/laminate cutter with a current Sale Price of
>> $8.48. Their minimum order has to be $15 and shipping would be
about
>> $8
>> for that. Of course, today it would cost me that much in gas to
drive
>> to a store which might carry an OLFA knife. Hope this helps.
>>
>> Al
>>
>> On Nov 18, 2007, at 8:10 PM, Bob Unternaehrer wrote:
>>
>> > I know the number. just wondering what it was. Our country
hardware
>> > store doesn't have one.
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: Carlos Sa
>> >> To: zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>
>> >> Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 6:31 PM
>> >> Subject: Re: RE : RE: Zenith-List: Scratchbuilding Tools
>> >>
>> >> Bob, it is the OLFA P-800. You can find it it most hardware
stores.
>>
>>========================
======================p; --
Please
>> Support Your Lists This
Mitle=http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://<http://www.matroni
cs.com/contribution%22%3Ehttp://>
>> Browse, Chat,
>> FAQ,http://
>>
www.m=======================
=======================nbsp
<http://www.m====================
=nbsp/>; -
>> MATRONICS WEB FORUom/
>>
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://<http://forums.matronics.com%
22%3ehttp//>
>>
forums.matroni====================
=====================
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List<http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?Zenith-List>
Message 29
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|
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Nose Skin |
Art,
If you have an inability to pull a cleco down to close a gap without
getting a dimple, a shim can be made the thickness
you need and taped in place. If I understood your problem, the thin
punched shim would hold the material
where you want without that dented look that some pulled rivets cause
for uneven surfaces.
Larry
do not archive
Art Olechowski wrote:
>
> Larry,
> Can you elaborate some, the shims would attach to which holes? the rib flange
holes aft of the
> spar?
>
> Art
> --- LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com> wrote:
>
>
>>
>> Art,
>> One solution is pre-drilled shims taped in place before assembly.
>> Been there and done that on rib height, but you have to be careful and
>> cleco check the result.
>>
>> Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
>>
>> Art Olechowski wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> He all I have a dilemma with my nose skin on the rudder. When I drilled the
holes through
>>>
>> spar
>>
>>> and nose skin I confirmed that both nose rib tips were flush with inside of
the skin. But
>>>
>> when I
>>
>>> overlapped the nose skin on top the rear skin and clecoed in place both nose
ribs contain
>>>
>> about a
>>
>>> 1.5mm gap in between the skin. Both ribs have all the holes drilled in flanges.
Have any of
>>>
>> you
>>
>>> experienced this and if so whats are the resolutions or recommendations?
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Art
>>> 701 Scratch builder .0005% Complete
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: of wrath and rants... |
Why are so many posters to this thread listed as "Guest" ?
Are they members or not ?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147577#147577
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Scratchbuilding Tools |
I've used an air nibbler for cutting aluminum sheet. Cuts like butter and isn't
as likely to "take off" on it's own like the air shears.
Terry
Do not archive
paulrod36@msn.com wrote: Actually, it's just the blade; fits in a regular
utility knife handle. While nice to have, it isn't really necessary. When I
needed to repalce a trashed leading edge skin for the XL, a guy at Airparts
in KC KS showed me the cutting technique using just a regular utility knife.
Held it upside down in a hammer grip, scored about 10 times along a straight
edge, and bent it on the edge of the table. It broke clean as a whistle, and
I was on my way in less than ten minutes. Whenever my Olfa blade isn't immediately
to hand, I use a regular utility knife almost as easily.. P.S. A guy
who spent mucho years making big aluminum signs turned me on to a neat way
to make large cuts. His was a production business, so they needed to work fast.
He said to get a 4 x 8 sheet of styrofoam, 4 or more inches thick, lay the
sheet on it, and use a saber saw to cut. Apparently there is such a thing as
"blade Wax", which you can get at Lowe's or Home
Depot to use as lube. It may be necessary to grind off an inch or so from the
blade. He said you never go all the way through the foam, so can use it over
and over. I haven't tried it yet, but it makes sense, and next time I need
to make larger cuts I'll give it a try. (I consider the day wasted if I don't
learn something, and catch hell from somebody).
Paul Rodriguez
----- Original Message -----
From: Al Hays
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 4:02 PM
Subject: Re: RE : RE: Zenith-List: Scratchbuilding Tools
Paul,
No Olfa brand knives are carried in the True Value or Ace Hardware
stores in my area. Didn't see them in Lowe's or Home Depot either last
time I trekked to town. They all carry various types of utility knives
which might work, and some are only around $2.50 but most of any
quality are more than 6 or 8 bucks. I'm surprised that an Ace Hardware
would be able to sell an Olfa P-800 for a whole lot less but its good
that you and others in your area can take advantage of that.
Al
On Nov 19, 2007, at 12:59 PM, <paulrod36@msn.com> wrote:
> $8.48? Wow. Ace Hardware carries them at a whole
> lot less. Look in the aisle with the utility knives.
>
> Paul Rodriguez
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Al Hays
>> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>> Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 7:58 PM
>> Subject: Re: RE : RE: Zenith-List: Scratchbuilding Tools
>>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Al Hays
>> <alhays@hickoryhillfarmsheep.com>
>>
>> Bob,
>>
>> I found it online at OLFABLADES.COM and got extra blades and another
>> knife to get more bang for buck on the shipping cost. It is listed as
>> a heavy-duty plastic/laminate cutter with a current Sale Price of
>> $8.48. Their minimum order has to be $15 and shipping would be about
>> $8
>> for that. Of course, today it would cost me that much in gas to drive
>> to a store which might carry an OLFA knife. Hope this helps.
>>
>> Al
>>
>> On Nov 18, 2007, at 8:10 PM, Bob Unternaehrer wrote:
>>
>> > I know the number. just wondering what it was. Our country hardware
>> > store doesn't have one.
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: Carlos Sa
>> >> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>> >> Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 6:31 PM
>> >> Subject: Re: RE : RE: Zenith-List: Scratchbuilding Tools
>> >>
>> >> Bob, it is the OLFA P-800. You can find it it most hardware stores.
>> >>==============================================p; -- Please
>> Support Your Lists This Mitle=http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://
>> Browse, Chat,
>> FAQ,http://
>> www.m=====================nbsp; -
>> MATRONICS WEB FORUom/
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://
>> forums.matroni=========================================
>p; -- Please Support Your Lists This Month (And Get the Annual link Free title=http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c Thank you for your generous ; -Matt Dralle, List nbsp; Features Chat, --> http://www.matron======================
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder Nose Skin |
Art:
I had the opposite problem on one of my wings. The inboard 4 ribs for
the wing walk were centered on the top of the skin but when I flipped
the wing over, the ribs were recessed by about 3/32" so that when
rivitted, the skin would be pulled concave. I added a small shim
between the rib and the skin to correct the issue and make it look
better. Drove me crazy. I must have gotten a Monday AM 601XL wing
kit as the top rear skins were drilled wrong as well.
Oh well, nothing a little fiddling cant fix!
On Nov 20, 2007 5:54 PM, LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com> wrote:
>
> Art,
> If you have an inability to pull a cleco down to close a gap without
> getting a dimple, a shim can be made the thickness
> you need and taped in place. If I understood your problem, the thin
> punched shim would hold the material
> where you want without that dented look that some pulled rivets cause
> for uneven surfaces.
>
> Larry
> do not archive
>
>
> Art Olechowski wrote:
> >
> > Larry,
> > Can you elaborate some, the shims would attach to which holes? the rib flange
holes aft of the
> > spar?
> >
> > Art
> > --- LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Art,
> >> One solution is pre-drilled shims taped in place before assembly.
> >> Been there and done that on rib height, but you have to be careful and
> >> cleco check the result.
> >>
> >> Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
> >>
> >> Art Olechowski wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> He all I have a dilemma with my nose skin on the rudder. When I drilled
the holes through
> >>>
> >> spar
> >>
> >>> and nose skin I confirmed that both nose rib tips were flush with inside
of the skin. But
> >>>
> >> when I
> >>
> >>> overlapped the nose skin on top the rear skin and clecoed in place both nose
ribs contain
> >>>
> >> about a
> >>
> >>> 1.5mm gap in between the skin. Both ribs have all the holes drilled in flanges.
Have any of
> >>>
> >> you
> >>
> >>> experienced this and if so whats are the resolutions or recommendations?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> Art
> >>> 701 Scratch builder .0005% Complete
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
--
Paul Riedlinger
cndmovn@gmail.com
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| Subject: | Re: of wrath and rants... |
>--------------
>
>Why are so many posters to this thread listed as "Guest" ?
>
>Are they members or not ?
>--------------
Members that are subscribed to the email lists but are _not_ registered
on the Forum, will show up as "Guest" with their email address shown.
Only people that are registered specifically on the Forums will show
their Forum login and not "guest".
Inotherwords, just because they are "guest" on the Forum, doesn't mean they are
really a "guest" status. You cannot post on the Forum without being
registered (which a guest could do).
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
List/Forum Admin
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
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| Subject: | Re: 701 Arm rest/console |
So is the seat width wider on the 601 then? I really don't know, as I've never
really looked at a 601 up close and all they list is cabin width.
But I do get shoulder/neck cramps and this would help. And I prefer to fly with
my Hands on the stick! Though I have been known to drive my truck with my knee
[Shocked]
Kevin
--------
Kevin
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147584#147584
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| Subject: | Re: Scratchbuilding Tools |
That certainly does look like a good source. Their price is now $9.
It seems anything gets priced higher if it's to be used on an aircraft.
But still, with no shipping, and no time and gas going to town, it's
the best I've heard of. Thanks.
Al
On Nov 20, 2007, at 12:21 PM, Terry Phillips wrote:
>
> I've hung back w/o adding yet another source, but, I guess I'll go
> ahead. I bought mine from
>
> http://rjrcooltools.com/
>
> It was $8 with no shipping charges; prompt and courteous service. RJR
> appears to be a small business that supplies high quality tools for
> modelers. The owner was surprised that I was going to use it to cut
> aluminum, but he has since added that to his product description.
>
> I have no connection with RJR, other than as a satisfied customer.
>
> Terry
>
>
> At 06:41 PM 11/19/2007 -0800, you wrote:
>> Check in art/craft supply stores. None of my local hardware stores
>> carry the Olfa P-800 but most of the craft stores do.
>>
>> William Dominguez
>> Zodiac 601XL Plans
>> Miami Florida
>
>
> Terry Phillips
> ttp44~at~rkymtn.net
> Corvallis MT
> 601XL/Jab 3300 slow build kit - Rudder done--finally; working on the
> stab
> http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/
>
>
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|
So why is it getting hard to find 4130 N ?
I just received my order for some 4130 N (thin sheet, from ACS.) and one
of the sheets is AMS 6350 j.
After a little research I find that this is in the annealed condition. A
call to ACS and I find that they will occasionally substitute this for the
normalized stock.
Zenith has changed there 701 dwgs ,dropping the "N" from the material
description,compared to the older dwgs.
So is it OK to use annealed ?
Phil Day
scrapbuilder
701
do not archive
**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Roll over protection |
Hey Gig;
The oldest books I have and have seen all refer to the aft upper fuse surface as
the turtledeck. What makes a term official? It certainly has a lot of history!
Turtle Deck is not an official aircraft term but it is top area of the fuselage
behind the cockpit.
It's called that because it is shaped like the top of a turtle.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147552#147552
Dave Downey
Harleysville (SE) PA
100 HP Corvair
---------------------------------
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| Subject: | Re: Scratchbuilding Tools |
You can get Olfa blades and Cutters directly from Olfa and their prices
are good and you have quite a choice ..I have the p-800 at:
http://www.olfa.com/UtilityKnivesDetail.aspx?C=35&Id=58
and the heavy duty replacement blades at :
http://www.olfa.com/utilityknivesdetail.aspx?c=63&id=59
----- Original Message -----
From: paulrod36@msn.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: 2007-11-20 17:11
Subject: Re: RE : RE: Zenith-List: Scratchbuilding Tools
Actually, it's just the blade; fits in a regular utility knife handle.
While nice to have, it isn't really necessary. When I needed to repalce
a trashed leading edge skin for the XL, a guy at Airparts in KC KS
showed me the cutting technique using just a regular utility knife. Held
it upside down in a hammer grip, scored about 10 times along a straight
edge, and bent it on the edge of the table. It broke clean as a whistle,
and I was on my way in less than ten minutes. Whenever my Olfa blade
isn't immediately to hand, I use a regular utility knife almost as
easily.. P.S. A guy who spent mucho years making big aluminum signs
turned me on to a neat way to make large cuts. His was a production
business, so they needed to work fast. He said to get a 4 x 8 sheet of
styrofoam, 4 or more inches thick, lay the sheet on it, and use a saber
saw to cut. Apparently there is such a thing as "blade Wax", which you
can get at Lowe's or Home Depot to use as lube. It may be necessary to
grind off an inch or so from the blade. He said you never go all the
way through the foam, so can use it over and over. I haven't tried it
yet, but it makes sense, and next time I need to make larger cuts I'll
give it a try. (I consider the day wasted if I don't learn something,
and catch hell from somebody).
Paul Rodriguez
----- Original Message -----
From: Al Hays
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 4:02 PM
Subject: Re: RE : RE: Zenith-List: Scratchbuilding Tools
<alhays@hickoryhillfarmsheep.com>
Paul,
No Olfa brand knives are carried in the True Value or Ace Hardware
stores in my area. Didn't see them in Lowe's or Home Depot either
last
time I trekked to town. They all carry various types of utility
knives
which might work, and some are only around $2.50 but most of any
quality are more than 6 or 8 bucks. I'm surprised that an Ace
Hardware
would be able to sell an Olfa P-800 for a whole lot less but its
good
that you and others in your area can take advantage of that.
Al
On Nov 19, 2007, at 12:59 PM, <paulrod36@msn.com> wrote:
> $8.48? Wow. Ace Hardware carries them at a whole
> lot less. Look in the aisle with the utility knives.
>
> Paul Rodriguez
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Al Hays
>> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>> Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 7:58 PM
>> Subject: Re: RE : RE: Zenith-List: Scratchbuilding Tools
>>
>> <alhays@hickoryhillfarmsheep.com>
>>
>> Bob,
>>
>> I found it online at OLFABLADES.COM and got extra blades and
another
>> knife to get more bang for buck on the shipping cost. It is
listed as
>> a heavy-duty plastic/laminate cutter with a current Sale Price of
>> $8.48. Their minimum order has to be $15 and shipping would be
about
>> $8
>> for that. Of course, today it would cost me that much in gas to
drive
>> to a store which might carry an OLFA knife. Hope this helps.
>>
>> Al
>>
>> On Nov 18, 2007, at 8:10 PM, Bob Unternaehrer wrote:
>>
>> > I know the number. just wondering what it was. Our country
hardware
>> > store doesn't have one.
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: Carlos Sa
>> >> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>> >> Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 6:31 PM
>> >> Subject: Re: RE : RE: Zenith-List: Scratchbuilding Tools
>> >>
>> >> Bob, it is the OLFA P-800. You can find it it most hardware
stores.
>>
>>========================
======================p; --
Please
>> Support Your Lists This
Mitle=http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://
>> Browse, Chat,
>> FAQ,http://
>>
www.m=====================nbsp;
-
>> MATRONICS WEB FORUom/
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://
>>
forums.matroni====================
=====================
>p; -- Please Support Your Lists This Month (And Get the Annual
link Free title=http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Thank you for your generous ; -Matt Dralle, List
nbsp; Features Chat, -->
http://www.matron===================
===
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href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
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| Subject: | Re: ELT Position. |
I missed the original thread, but wanted to add that I put mine in the tail section,
as that was where the manufacturer (AMERI-KING)recommended it be placed.
They said it was the area least likely to be destroyed in a crash.
I hope I never have to prove what a good location it was.
Dan
--------
Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147599#147599
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: Scratchbuilding Tools |
If you are scratch building one of you best investments is a metal shear
with 8 - 10 inch blades.
Cheap $230 australian can cut full length of a sheet if required around
the outside of curves,
Mount it of the side of you table so sheet rests on table.
This thread is going on and on about a $2 Box cutter ??
Get real.
Graemecns
----- Original Message -----
From: Terry Turnquist
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 9:22 AM
Subject: Re: RE : RE: Zenith-List: Scratchbuilding Tools
I've used an air nibbler for cutting aluminum sheet. Cuts like butter
and isn't as likely to "take off" on it's own like the air shears.
Terry
Do not archive
paulrod36@msn.com wrote:
Actually, it's just the blade; fits in a regular utility knife
handle. While nice to have, it isn't really necessary. When I needed to
repalce a trashed leading edge skin for the XL, a guy at Airparts in KC
KS showed me the cutting technique using just a regular utility knife.
Held it upside down in a hammer grip, scored about 10 times along a
straight edge, and bent it on the edge of the table. It broke clean as a
whistle, and I was on my way in less than ten minutes. Whenever my Olfa
blade isn't immediately to hand, I use a regular utility knife almost as
easily.. P.S. A guy who spent mucho years making big aluminum signs
turned me on to a neat way to make large cuts. His was a production
business, so they needed to work fast. He said to get a 4 x 8 sheet of
styrofoam, 4 or more inches thick, lay the sheet on it, and use a saber
saw to cut. Apparently there is such a thing as "blade Wax", which you
can get at Lowe's or Home Depot to use as lube. It may be necessary to
grind off an inch or so from the blade. He said you never go all the
way through the foam, so can use it over and over. I haven't tried it
yet, but it makes sense, and next time I need to make larger cuts I'll
give it a try. (I consider the day wasted if I don't learn something,
and catch hell from somebody).
Paul Rodriguez
----- Original Message -----
From: Al Hays
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 4:02 PM
Subject: Re: RE : RE: Zenith-List: Scratchbuilding Tools
<alhays@hickoryhillfarmsheep.com>
Paul,
No Olfa brand knives are carried in the True Value or Ace Hardware
stores in my area. Didn't see them in Lowe's or Home Depot either
last
time I trekked to town. They all carry various types of utility
knives
which might work, and some are only around $2.50 but most of any
quality are more than 6 or 8 bucks. I'm surprised that an Ace
Hardware
would be able to sell an Olfa P-800 for a whole lot less but its
good
that you and others in your area can take advantage of that.
Al
On Nov 19, 2007, at 12:59 PM, <paulrod36@msn.com> wrote:
> $8.48? Wow. Ace Hardware carries them at a whole
> lot less. Look in the aisle with the utility knives.
>
> Paul Rodriguez
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Al Hays
>> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>> Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 7:58 PM
>> Subject: Re: RE : RE: Zenith-List: Scratchbuilding Tools
>>
>> <alhays@hickoryhillfarmsheep.com>
>>
>> Bob,
>>
>> I found it online at OLFABLADES.COM and got extra blades and
another
>> knife to get more bang for buck on the shipping cost. It is
listed as
>> a heavy-duty plastic/laminate cutter with a current Sale Price
of
>> $8.48. Their minimum order has to be $15 and shipping would be
about
>> $8
>> for that. Of course, today it would cost me that much in gas to
drive
>> to a store which might carry an OLFA knife. Hope this helps.
>>
>> Al
>>
>> On Nov 18, 2007, at 8:10 PM, Bob Unternaehrer wrote:
>>
>> > I know the number. just wondering what it was. Our country
hardware
>> > store doesn't have one.
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: Carlos Sa
>> >> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>> >> Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 6:31 PM
>> >> Subject: Re: RE : RE: Zenith-List: Scratchbuilding Tools
>> >>
>> >> Bob, it is the OLFA P-800. You can find it it most hardware
stores.
>>
>>========================
======================p; --
Please
>> Support Your Lists This
Mitle=http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://
>> Browse, Chat,
>> FAQ,http://
>>
www.m=====================nbsp;
-
>> MATRONICS WEB FORUom/
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://
>>
forums.matroni====================
=====================
>p; -- Please Support Your Lists This Month (And Get the Annual
link Free title=http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Thank you for your generous ; -Matt Dralle, List
nbsp; Features Chat, --> Get easy, one-click access to your
favorites.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
20/11/2007 5:44 PM
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend |
As I have said I haven't had a chance to see my friends set up but I would
like to help him get it fixed so could you please send some pics of your
cowling and baffle setup? Also what aircraft is this in?
Jeff
In a message dated 11/20/2007 12:16:44 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
rpf@wi.rr.com writes:
I have to agree with Pete. I live in Wisconsin and in summer I hardly ever
get a CHT reading over 300F.
Now that the onset of winter is coming I have to add some deflectors to kee
p
the temperatures higher. I flew the other day, 25 degrees, and a couple of
cylinders were between 160 and 180 degrees. I have the older style 3300
without the additional cooling fins. I also have the older style RAM air c
ooling
ducts with the ignition wires on the outside. My installation is exactly
like JabirueUSA suggests. I added deflectors, inside the RAM air ducts, so
air
would flow through the middle two and last two cylinders. If anything, I
would like to know what people of done (who fly in cold weather) to keep th
eir
CHT's higher.
Randy
----- Original Message -----
From: _Afterfxllc@aol.com_ (mailto:Afterfxllc@aol.com)
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 9:18 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
That's funny you say that because I have talked to a lot of Jab. owners wit
h
the 601 and hear the same story time and time again. The one thing I hear
most is # 6 is over 350. I think I know what the problem is and when I get
it
here I will see if I'm correct but to say the Jab. 3300 doesn't run hot is
a
stretch and to say it is hard to keep it warm enough is really a stretch. I
'm
only talking about the 601xl also I don't know about other planes. I do kno
w
from talking to Sabastion that one other water cooled power plant in the 60
1
had a problem cooling also.
In a message dated 11/20/2007 9:20:14 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
pete@usjabiru.com writes:
It is not difficult to make a Jabiru run cool. In fact with a properly
designed cowl that provides the correct airflow it is more of a problem to
keep
it warm enough in cooler months. In the last seven years we=99ve sol
d well
over 1000 Jabiru engines and when they are coupled with an established FWF
kit
they run cool. When builders put something together without the proper
engineering results can be unsatisfactory. We build FWF kits that cool wel
l in
fast aircraft like the Lightning as well as slow aircraft like a Kitfox or
Zenith 701. It is not the engine that does not cool well.
If an owner installed a Corviar, Continental, or Lycoming using the same
cowl design he would have the same cooling results.
Pete
____________________________________
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Afterfxllc@aol
.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 7:30 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
His CHT's are all over the place most of the time well over 305. he has
tried 3 different baffle kits and has an a&p doing all the work but still
can't
get the CHT's anywhere close to each other. That is one engine I would have
nothing to do with and I am not saying that because it isn't a Lycoming or
continental because I have 5 corvair's, it's just that a lot of builders ca
n't
make the damn thing run cool. I guess they can justify the price increase
because it is one hot engine. LOL
Jeff
In a message dated 11/20/2007 8:20:17 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
notsew_evets@frontiernet.net writes:
I have not run my 3300 yet but I m gettin close. I did own an Avid Flyer
with a 2200A for 13 years. The 2200 always ran hot. In fact I never cou
ld
get the temps on the EGT below 1375. Sometimes EGTs were in the 1475 range
.
I solved my worries one day by flying above the airport (3000agl) and let
her do what ever she wanted. The engine ran fine at 1475......
However I did have good CHTs. CHTs were in the 190 to 265 range.
At that time Jabiru didnt have EGTs on their factory Jabiru airplanes. I
guess they didnt want to know EGTs.
Today I think the hight EGTs are a result of placing the probes in the wron
g
location. 100 mm is either too close or too far from the flange..... CHT
s
are probably the best tell tail of how your engine is doing..
SW
----- Original Message -----
From: _Afterfxllc@aol.com_ (mailto:Afterfxllc@aol.com)
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 10:07 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
They need to have a "HOW TO MAKE YOUR JAB RUN COOL" seminar.
Seems like everyone I talk to with a jab in a 601 has overheating problems,
I just wonder if it is an engine problem more than a baffle problem. My
friend is trying to get his 601 to me to look at about this but I told him
I want
to tare down the complete engine and check to see how close the tolerances
are from one cylinder to the next.
Jeff
In a message dated 11/19/2007 12:48:23 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
david.m.gallagher@ge.com writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher@ge.com>
Jabiru held a very informative Zenith 601/Jabiru FWF seminar this past
weekend at the Jabiru USA facility in TN. I had a good time and got to mee
t some
fellow Matronic's posters there. My thanks to seminar leaders, Pete Krotje
and Mark Stauffer, who were very patient with us as well as Don Guice, who'
s
airplane we used as the guinea pig. Jon Croke was also there filming for a
n
updated Homebuilt Help 101 video on this topic. One of the things I was
interested in seeing was the dual throttle set-up. The latest ZAC firewall
design requires some slight modifications in the way the cross-rod installa
tion
is performed on the top shelf. Nothing major, but you have to work around
the
front shelf L-brackets and the U-channel on the back side. Look for
updates from Jabiru in the near future. We also went over the new oil cool
er
installation. I understand that new instructions hit the Jabiru web site j
ust
last week. Attached are a few pictures I took during the class as well !
as a shot of Don and his airplane loaded into a 30' Penske truck.
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL, tail and wings completed,
fueslage almost done. Working engine and electrical systems.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147134#147134
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/jab_seminar_72_305.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/jab_seminar_53_131.jpg
http://forums.matronsp; (And Get Some AWESOME FREE find you for
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Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder Nose Skin |
I think my post was not clear enough. The gap I've experienced is in between the
tip of the upper
and lower nose ribs and the LE of the skin. If you look cross sectionally down
the leading edge
of the nose skin light can be seen between the apex of both rib tips and the nose
skin. I'm not
seeing a how shim can work in this senario since the tip of the rib flange is tapered
at the nose
and no rivets exist in that area to fasten the shim too?
--- Paul Riedlinger <cndmovn@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Art:
>
> I had the opposite problem on one of my wings. The inboard 4 ribs for
> the wing walk were centered on the top of the skin but when I flipped
> the wing over, the ribs were recessed by about 3/32" so that when
> rivitted, the skin would be pulled concave. I added a small shim
> between the rib and the skin to correct the issue and make it look
> better. Drove me crazy. I must have gotten a Monday AM 601XL wing
> kit as the top rear skins were drilled wrong as well.
>
> Oh well, nothing a little fiddling cant fix!
>
> On Nov 20, 2007 5:54 PM, LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com> wrote:
> >
> > Art,
> > If you have an inability to pull a cleco down to close a gap without
> > getting a dimple, a shim can be made the thickness
> > you need and taped in place. If I understood your problem, the thin
> > punched shim would hold the material
> > where you want without that dented look that some pulled rivets cause
> > for uneven surfaces.
> >
> > Larry
> > do not archive
> >
> >
> > Art Olechowski wrote:
> > >
> > > Larry,
> > > Can you elaborate some, the shims would attach to which holes? the rib flange
holes aft of
> the
> > > spar?
> > >
> > > Art
> > > --- LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >>
> > >> Art,
> > >> One solution is pre-drilled shims taped in place before assembly.
> > >> Been there and done that on rib height, but you have to be careful and
> > >> cleco check the result.
> > >>
> > >> Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
> > >>
> > >> Art Olechowski wrote:
> > >>
> > >>>
> > >>> He all I have a dilemma with my nose skin on the rudder. When I drilled
the holes through
> > >>>
> > >> spar
> > >>
> > >>> and nose skin I confirmed that both nose rib tips were flush with inside
of the skin. But
> > >>>
> > >> when I
> > >>
> > >>> overlapped the nose skin on top the rear skin and clecoed in place both
nose ribs contain
> > >>>
> > >> about a
> > >>
> > >>> 1.5mm gap in between the skin. Both ribs have all the holes drilled in
flanges. Have any
> of
> > >>>
> > >> you
> > >>
> > >>> experienced this and if so whats are the resolutions or recommendations?
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Thanks,
> > >>> Art
> > >>> 701 Scratch builder .0005% Complete
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Paul Riedlinger
> cndmovn@gmail.com
>
>
>
>
>
Message 43
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I checked my logbook and the firewall forward took me about 90 hours. I
did not break out the other individual construction times. Of course
there was a lot of time that I did not record. This is what I called
stupid time, ie - well you screwed that up what are going to do now stupid.
Dan Wilde
Message 44
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| Subject: | Re: 4130N-or-not-N |
Phil,
Normalizing is done to get the best condition for machining.
Annealing is done to get the ductility and condition for stamping or
bending.
The usual normalized 4130 is the preferred condition for use in aircraft
construction and
may be the best for welding to avoid overheating the material.
I'd be inclined to want to know what were the differences in yield
strength for these metals from Aircraft Spruce.
Normalizing is one condition and Annealing is multiple possible conditions.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Flydog1966@aol.com wrote:
> So why is it getting hard to find 4130 N ?
> I just received my order for some 4130 N (thin sheet, from ACS.) and
> one of the sheets is AMS 6350 j.
> After a little research I find that this is in the annealed condition.
> A call to ACS and I find that they will occasionally substitute this
> for the normalized stock.
> Zenith has changed there 701 dwgs ,dropping the "N" from the
> material description,compared to the older dwgs.
> So is it OK to use annealed ?
> Phil Day
> scrapbuilder
> 701
> do not archive
>
> *
>
> *
Message 45
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| Subject: | Re: Cost of scratch build versus kit build |
Hi Dave
Are you back to scratchbuilding??
Sure would love to see you back up and running.
Going to go to your building site as soon as this message is sent.
Ron
Debert, Nova Scotia, Canada
> Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Cost of scratch build versus kit build> From: d
claytx2@HOTMAIL.COM> Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 22:13:29 -0800> To: zenith-list
mail.com>> > If you can find a local supplier for your aluminum you can sav
e even more money. I'm fortunate to have a Trident Metals one hour away. I
purchased two 4X12 sheets of .025 last week for $60 each with no shipping c
harges. Aircraft Spruce currently charges $108 per sheet plus shipping. Scr
atch building does take more time, for sure, but its a heck of a lot cheape
r. Its also a pretty nice feeling to be able to say "I made every part by h
and". Having said that...a kit would be my preference if money were not a f
actor.> > Dave Clay> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.
========================> _
======================> > >
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself with free Messenger emoticons. Get them today!
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Message 46
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| Subject: | Re: Hello all... |
Thanks for all of your replies. I'll leave the 24" brake alone and just build a
Dave Clay brake.
I've been in and around a lot of lists and I must say this one is tops. There is
just so much info and support available its amazing. I had completely dismissed
aluminum construction after researching the Bearhawk last year because it
just seemed so complicated and beyond my abilities. After spending the last few
months studying Zenith planes I feel like I could practically build my 701 with
just the information available on-line!
It will be a while but I cant wait to get started.
Thanks again. I'll be back!
Joshua
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147621#147621
Message 47
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| Subject: | Re: Free forming sheet metal |
Yes softer metal is normally used, but all I had was the 6061-T6 and I wanted to
give it a try.
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147631#147631
Message 48
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Hello Listers!
Does anyone out there run JUST an EFIS, or does
everyone have "backup" steam gauges? I am primarily
interested in the EFIS for its overall simplicity and
potential weight savings - but the need for "backups"
could erode that very quickly.
Thanks
Andy Hinsdale
Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you
with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/sports;_ylt=At9_qDKvtAbMuh1G1SQtBI7ntAcJ
Message 49
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder Nose Skin |
I don't think that is an issue at all. No amount of wind force is
going to make that skin move.
I would just leave it.
On Nov 20, 2007 8:15 PM, Art Olechowski <ifly4fun2@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> I think my post was not clear enough. The gap I've experienced is in between
the tip of the upper
> and lower nose ribs and the LE of the skin. If you look cross sectionally down
the leading edge
> of the nose skin light can be seen between the apex of both rib tips and the
nose skin. I'm not
> seeing a how shim can work in this senario since the tip of the rib flange is
tapered at the nose
> and no rivets exist in that area to fasten the shim too?
>
> --- Paul Riedlinger <cndmovn@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> >
> > Art:
> >
> > I had the opposite problem on one of my wings. The inboard 4 ribs for
> > the wing walk were centered on the top of the skin but when I flipped
> > the wing over, the ribs were recessed by about 3/32" so that when
> > rivitted, the skin would be pulled concave. I added a small shim
> > between the rib and the skin to correct the issue and make it look
> > better. Drove me crazy. I must have gotten a Monday AM 601XL wing
> > kit as the top rear skins were drilled wrong as well.
> >
> > Oh well, nothing a little fiddling cant fix!
> >
> > On Nov 20, 2007 5:54 PM, LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Art,
> > > If you have an inability to pull a cleco down to close a gap without
> > > getting a dimple, a shim can be made the thickness
> > > you need and taped in place. If I understood your problem, the thin
> > > punched shim would hold the material
> > > where you want without that dented look that some pulled rivets cause
> > > for uneven surfaces.
> > >
> > > Larry
> > > do not archive
> > >
> > >
> > > Art Olechowski wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Larry,
> > > > Can you elaborate some, the shims would attach to which holes? the rib
flange holes aft of
> > the
> > > > spar?
> > > >
> > > > Art
> > > > --- LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >>
> > > >> Art,
> > > >> One solution is pre-drilled shims taped in place before assembly.
> > > >> Been there and done that on rib height, but you have to be careful and
> > > >> cleco check the result.
> > > >>
> > > >> Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
> > > >>
> > > >> Art Olechowski wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> He all I have a dilemma with my nose skin on the rudder. When I drilled
the holes through
> > > >>>
> > > >> spar
> > > >>
> > > >>> and nose skin I confirmed that both nose rib tips were flush with inside
of the skin. But
> > > >>>
> > > >> when I
> > > >>
> > > >>> overlapped the nose skin on top the rear skin and clecoed in place both
nose ribs contain
> > > >>>
> > > >> about a
> > > >>
> > > >>> 1.5mm gap in between the skin. Both ribs have all the holes drilled
in flanges. Have any
> > of
> > > >>>
> > > >> you
> > > >>
> > > >>> experienced this and if so whats are the resolutions or recommendations?
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Thanks,
> > > >>> Art
> > > >>> 701 Scratch builder .0005% Complete
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
> > --
> > Paul Riedlinger
> > cndmovn@gmail.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
--
Paul Riedlinger
cndmovn@gmail.com
Message 50
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| Subject: | Re: Glass Panels |
I'm backing up my EFIS (MGL Enigma) with an MGL Flight 2. I went with
an EFIS to get rid of mechanical gauges so why bring them back as a
back-up? The Flight 2 can be powered from Enigma's "secure" supply
(primary and secondary batteries) or, if I am really paranoid, will run
from a 9 volt battery for more than an hour. In a 3.5 inch package it
provides (among other things):
* Altimeter (-700ft to >40.000ft range)
* Airspeed indicator (16-250 mph range)
* Analog VSI (+/-1600 ft/min range)
* Digital VSI (+/-10.000 ft/min range)
* Automatic flight duration timer
* Real time clock for local time and flight log use
* Engine RPM gauge, programmable for different engine types
* Density altimeter
* Barometer (actual local pressure)
* True airspeed (TAS display)
* Stopwatch
www.mglavionics.co.za/Docs/flight2.pdf
-- Craig
Message 51
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Bob,
Finally talked to ZAC and they faxed me the drawings. there are photo guide
pages for TD online. From what I can see from looking at the drawings
instead of working Monday, you will have to remove the tie down ring and
install the tail spring forward pickup on the front HT frame. is your rear
fuselage turtledeck already riveted in place?
BJC
>From: "Bob Unternaehrer" <shilocom@mcmsys.com>
>To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Taildragger
>Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 18:57:53 -0600
>
>My plans built fuselage I bought has the tie down ring already installed.
>i haven't started on the taildragger mods yet or studied the drawings.
>Wonder if I've got a lot to change. Bob U.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bill Sewell
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 8:44 AM
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Taildragger
>
>
> Brad,
>
> As I remember, the only change on the bottom rear fuselage assembly had
>to do with the lower rudder hinge plate. You don't drill the center hole
>for the rear tie down eye bolt. The more significant changes start when
>you begin work on the forward fuselage floor.
>
> Take a look at my web site for some pictures.
>
> http://n601bz.com/ch601xl/Fuselage/Rear_Fuselage/082804.htm
> http://n601bz.com/ch601xl/Fuselage/Rear_Fuselage/090204.htm
>
> http://n601bz.com/ch601xl/Fuselage/Cabin_Floor/092904a.htm
>
> Bill Sewell
> N601BZ
>
>
> On 11/19/07, Brad Cohen <bradfnp@msn.com> wrote:
>
> I was just getting started on the rear fuselage when a cold chill ran
>down
> my spine, I realized that the blueprints I was folliowing were for the
> tricycle version. A quick check revealed that I didn't receive the TD
> blueprint page with the parts shipment.
>
> Thankfully I have not progressed too far. (just now installing the
>bottom
> skin l-angles.) How soon do I need to start considering the
>taildragger
> specific changes? the photo guide is really not too clear on when to
>make
>
>
Message 52
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| Subject: | Re: Scratchbuilding Tools |
Recieved my Olfa knives in less than 24 hrs from shopkitchenworld.ca. They were
10.48 each. If you REALLY need em, you can find em here. I doubt I will ever
deal with them again. I had to call and give my credit card 3 times over a 10
day period.
They work great. cut a .025 alum. sheet in 7 swipes and a snap.
Don
--------
Don Merritt- Laredo, Tx
Apologies if I seem antagonistic.
I believe in the freeflowing ideas and discussions between individuals for assistance
in this thing we call life.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147651#147651
Message 53
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| Subject: | Re: Glass Panels |
Hi Andy,
My plane is not done yet, so I am not really using
anything. However, my plan is to have only EFIS/EIS from Dynon with
no "Backup" gauges. I do have an LRI I built while waiting for my
wing kit, but I don't consider it a backup for the EFIS.
The reason I don't feel a need for steam gauge backup for the EFIS is
I don't plan to fly my plane under IFR. The EFIS actually makes a
very nice and complete panel for occasional instrument flight, but
since it is a single box it would not be reasonable to depend on it
for planned IFR flying. That is because a single failure in the EFIS
could leave you with no way to fly the plane.
In my case the EFIS is itself a backup for visual control with
outside reference. If you are planning a real IFR plane then I would
suggest you add at least a turn and bank indicator along with an
altimeter and probably airspeed for partial panel flight if the EFIS
croaks. Perhaps a GPS could be used for the altitude and speed, but
there is no way to fly in IMC without at least one gyro instrument.
Good luck,
Paul
XL fuselage
At 07:44 PM 11/20/2007, you wrote:
>
>Hello Listers!
>
>Does anyone out there run JUST an EFIS, or does
>everyone have "backup" steam gauges? I am primarily
>interested in the EFIS for its overall simplicity and
>potential weight savings - but the need for "backups"
>could erode that very quickly.
>
>Thanks
>Andy Hinsdale
Message 54
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| Subject: | Re: Glass Panels |
The Dragonfly Aviation N601BA is licensed as an ELSA and is used for flight
training for hire. We installed the Dynon EFIS 100 and EMS 120 -- ONLY, with
no backup. We did not believe that any other back up, other than "look out
the window" was needed. Sport aircraft were designed to emulate the early
simple airplanes, such as the J-3 Cub and flown for "fun" in VFR condition. No
gyros are required for VFR flight. The Dynons are probably overkill, but do
make flying with them almost a dream. Why try to simplify your airplane by
eliminating duplication and then add it back. Personally I believe that in
the long run the Dynons are simpler to operate, cheaper to purchase and
install, and will require less maintenance over the life of the airplane. Every
flight instructor is supposed to teach every student pilot to fly his/her
airplane without reference to any instrument except sound and feel, and be able
to
land it safely in an emergency. Those two Dynon monitors, or a single Dynon
180 are all you need, IMHO.
Cheers,
Bob Archibald
CH601XL/Lyc 125hp/Dynons/400 hrs.
Dragonfly Aviation
Santa Rosa, CA
PS I have been a "lurker" on this list for about 2 years, work with Michael
Heintz's Quality Sport Planes in California. I have met a number of you at
various airshows and corresponded with several of you directly. I may now
post directly to this list from time to time.
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