Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:17 AM - Scratch builders, what did you build/what did you buy? (mcjon77)
2. 04:19 AM - Re: Scratch builders, what did you build/what did you buy? (Debo Cox)
3. 07:23 AM - Re: Scratch builders, what did you build/what did you buy? (LarryMcFarland)
4. 10:40 AM - Re: Scratch builders, what did you build/what did you buy? (Roger & Lina Hill)
5. 10:41 AM - Re: Scratch builders, what did you build/what did you buy? (Larry Winger)
6. 01:06 PM - Y stick problem (Richard Vetterli)
7. 01:20 PM - Re: Re: 601XL Aileron Bellcrank Brace (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
8. 01:35 PM - Re: Re: Absence of Evidence (Juan Vega)
9. 01:45 PM - Re: Y stick problem (Roger & Lina Hill)
10. 01:49 PM - Re: Absence of Evidence (Juan Vega)
11. 01:55 PM - Re: Absence of Evidence (steve)
12. 02:10 PM - Re: Absence of Evidence (Jay Maynard)
13. 02:43 PM - Re: Scratch builders, what did you build/what did you buy? (Ron Lendon)
14. 03:33 PM - Nickel (Wes or Lurlene Bressler)
15. 04:02 PM - Gear jack pads (Jay Maynard)
16. 05:12 PM - Chat Room Reminder For "Digesters" (George Race)
17. 06:07 PM - Re: Scratch builders, what did you build/what did you buy? (Tim Shankland)
18. 06:20 PM - Re: Y stick problem (DaveG601XL)
19. 06:35 PM - Re: Gear jack pads (Ron Lendon)
20. 07:05 PM - Re: Gear jack pads (Juan Vega)
21. 09:32 PM - Re: Y stick problem (fred sanford)
22. 11:06 PM - Official Zenith-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
23. 11:11 PM - Official Zenith-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Scratch builders, what did you build/what did you buy? |
Hi guys,
I would like to find out from the scratch builders, regardless of which model zenith
you built/are building, what parts did you make for yourself and what did
you buy from zenith? Also, if you were doing it over again, are there any parts
that you would have bought instead of building or built instead of buying
like you did before?
Thanks,
--------
Jon McDonald
Building Sonex #1287
Thinking ahead about a Zenith CH 701 :D
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=232567#232567
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Scratch builders, what did you build/what did you buy? |
Wow Jon. Good question.
I did my own informal cost analysis on most parts - meaning I just figured out
whether it was cheaper to make it or buy it. I took into account whether I had
the tooling or ingenuity to make the part, or if my enthusiasm level was up to
the job. Here's a good example - the top rudder hinge. It's actually cheaper
to buy the finished, correctly bent, drilled part from Zenith than it is to buy
the raw materials to make it. It's a different thickness from most standard
parts and I didn't have any scraps lying around to make it with.
I also bought pre-drilled fuselage bottom and side skins. When added up, the cost
of the raw material was nearly the same as the pre-drilled cousin. There would
have been some extra to make other parts if I had bought the raw material,
but at that point in my build not having to lay out all of those rivet lines
was worth the difference - and again, the difference wasn't much. After working
with the pre-drilled skins, I'd HIGHLY recommend them. They take a task that's
very labor-intensive and has a high probability for error and makes it an afterthought.
Also for me one of the most unpleasant jobs of building is handling
large, unwieldy sheets of aluminum and trimming them down to "skin size." Buying
the pre-drilled, pre-cut skins takes care of that too.
Here are a couple more things I bought: Front bottom landing gear bearing (nylon),
rudder pedal bearing (nylon), Firewall (cheaper or equal to raw material).
I think that's about it.
On the other side of the coin, I made all of my welded parts and I'd certainly
do it again - especially when I can make a set of rudder pedals for $20 worth
of tubing or buy them for nearly $300.
If you're going to scratchbuild, I'd suggest at least trying to make as many parts
as you feel up to. For me it was about the educational process of fabricating
metal as well as building the plane. I owe all of my fabrication knowledge
(such as it is) to all of the parts that never even made it into the plane. They
went straight into the trash bucket.
Good luck with the build.
Debo Cox
Nags Head, NC
Scratchbuilt XL/Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/debo
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Scratch builders, what did you build/what did you buy? |
Hi Jon,
If I just wanted to fly, I would have bought the whole kit. The build
process will involve so many more hours than you will fly, that it does
not equate on just time or cost. Building tooling, jigs and parts is a
long road to getting an airplane, so the build process has to be very
attractive to you in the first place.
Tooling requirements that overwhelm your capacity, such as bending heavy
spars, welding motor mounts and fuel tanks, blowing a canopy and bending
gear forks may provide good reason for buying these parts.
On the basis of patience, few of these things should get in your way if
scratch building is what you really want to do, but youll save only
half of what you calculate between buying parts and making them yourself
and youll more than double the project time if youve no education or
experience to draw from.
I didnt like the idea of making a canopy or rebuilding an engine, so I
bought those with no regret, and built most everything else over 5-1/2
years. I miss the larger project, as the time in process was really
great fun. The 601HDS is a joy to fly and after 130 hours, its still a
lot of fun and adventure for me and well worth the time as a plans build.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
mcjon77 wrote:
>
> Hi guys,
>
> I would like to find out from the scratch builders, regardless of which model
zenith you built/are building, what parts did you make for yourself and what
did you buy from zenith? Also, if you were doing it over again, are there any
parts that you would have bought instead of building or built instead of buying
like you did before?
>
> Thanks,
>
> --------
> Jon McDonald
> Building Sonex #1287
> Thinking ahead about a Zenith CH 701 :D
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Scratch builders, what did you build/what did you buy? |
Ya I built most of my Sonerai from scratch. I spent 90% of my time trying to
figure out what to do, and 10% actually doing it (or redoing it).
Getting a kit that is precut and prepunched will reduce your figuring out
time dramatically, so you can concentrate your time on actually doing the
building.
Roger
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of LarryMcFarland
Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 9:23 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Scratch builders, what did you build/what did you
buy?
Hi Jon,
If I just wanted to fly, I would have bought the whole kit. The build
process will involve so many more hours than you will fly, that it does
not equate on just time or cost. Building tooling, jigs and parts is a
long road to getting an airplane, so the build process has to be very
attractive to you in the first place.
Tooling requirements that overwhelm your capacity, such as bending heavy
spars, welding motor mounts and fuel tanks, blowing a canopy and bending
gear forks may provide good reason for buying these parts.
On the basis of patience, few of these things should get in your way if
scratch building is what you really want to do, but you'll save only
half of what you calculate between buying parts and making them yourself
and you'll more than double the project time if you've no education or
experience to draw from.
I didn't like the idea of making a canopy or rebuilding an engine, so I
bought those with no regret, and built most everything else over 5-1/2
years. I miss the larger project, as the time in process was really
great fun. The 601HDS is a joy to fly and after 130 hours, it's still a
lot of fun and adventure for me and well worth the time as a plans build.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
mcjon77 wrote:
>
> Hi guys,
>
> I would like to find out from the scratch builders, regardless of which
model zenith you built/are building, what parts did you make for yourself
and what did you buy from zenith? Also, if you were doing it over again,
are there any parts that you would have bought instead of building or built
instead of buying like you did before?
>
> Thanks,
>
> --------
> Jon McDonald
> Building Sonex #1287
> Thinking ahead about a Zenith CH 701 :D
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Scratch builders, what did you build/what did you buy? |
Jon,
I've actually asked myself the same question regularly since starting my
plans-built 601XL (now CH 650) in the fall of 2006. Here's my conclusion:
Only build from plans for the love of building, not to save money.
Unless you have a shop full of the right kind of tools (list available upon
request!), you're going to invest many hundreds of dollars getting ready to
bend your first part. Your time commitment to build from plans is
substantial. I estimate that 60-70% of my time is spent making the average
part, with only 30-40% of the time spent in installing it. Put another way,
I probably could have reached this point in my build in one third to one
half of the time if I had just reached over to the shelf and picked up a
factory part. When you total up your cost in materials, tools and the
materials to make your parts over again (the learning curve), I doubt that
there is much to be saved. Factor in your time and it is hard to justify.
Having said all that, I wouldn't do it any differently! In fact, I just
invested in oxyacetylene welding gear to complete my build. My choice was
either to write one more big check to Zenith for the welded parts in the
canopy system OR to learn and make the parts so that I would have equipment
and a skill at the end of the day. Since I'm on this journey to learn and
enjoy, frankly I should have done this months ago.
Band saw, drill press, oscillating sander and router --- $830
Plywood for wing rib form blocks --- $80
Two sheets of 6061 T6 for wing ribs --- $180
The satisfaction of making your own wings -- PRICELESS
Larry Winger
Tustin, CA
CH 650/Corvair
Ready to rivet the fuselage
Message 6
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I'm getting close to finishing my plane and I'm trying to solve one small problem.
I installed the center "Y" stick, which I love. However, I'm a big guy and
left part of the "Y" strikes my right leg, preventing full aileron deflection.
I've thought about cutting off the "y" and going with a straight center stick.
One other option that I'm thinking about is fabricating a pivoting crossbar
off of the center stick, with two grips on the ends (like a Robinson R22).
Any thought, pro or con.
Rich Vetterli
Pleasanton, CA
601XL/Corvair
Check out my progress at: www.geocities.com/stixx5a
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Aileron Bellcrank Brace |
Ron, they feel firm, quick and responsive. I think what it does most is make
my head feel safer. Best regards, Bill
**************
Get a jump start on your
taxes. Find a tax professional in your neighborhood today.
(http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=Tax+Return+Preparation+%26+Filing&
ncid=emlcntusyelp00000004)
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Absence of Evidence |
i shall be there my Brotha.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
>Sent: Feb 28, 2009 7:49 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Absence of Evidence
>
>Juan, you going to SnF this year? It'll be good to see you again, hear your
>stories and drink your beer. Best regards, Bill of Georgia
>
>
>In a message dated 2/28/2009 5:24:41 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>amyvega2005@earthlink.net writes:
>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Juan Vega <amyvega2005@earthlink.net>
>
>and elvis is alive in Greenland, married to the alien that landed at aera
>51. put it to bed.
>do not archive Juan
>
>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Gig Giacona <wrgiacona@gmail.com>
>>Sent: Feb 27, 2009 3:03 PM
>>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Absence of Evidence
>>
>>
>>
>>ihab.awad(at)gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>> Please don't try to make fun of me or anyone; this doesn't help the
>discussion.
>>>
>>> As far as my reasoning goes, here it is. When an accident is
>>> precipitated by aeroelasticity, is it possible for perceptible
>>> yielding to only occur on the last cycle so that the yield pattern
>>> only shows the final static failure? The NTSB report did not connect
>>> these dots, leading me to believe that the evidence is not conclusive
>>> either way.
>>>
>>> Ihab
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ihab A.B. Awad, Palo Alto, CA
>>
>>
>>Do you have some information that we don't have? I ask because you seem to
>be assuming that the FAA missed something. Unless you have some evidence that
>this is the case your position as stated above is pure conjecture.
>>
>>--------
>>W.R. "Gig" Giacona
>>601XL Under Construction
>>See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Read this topic online here:
>>
>>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=232344#232344
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>**************Get a jump start on your taxes. Find a tax professional in your
>neighborhood today.
>(http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=Tax+Return+Preparation+%26+Filing&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000004)
Message 9
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Rich;
I have a Y stick myself, never used full aileron deflection though in
flight. If I did, I think I'd flip the plane over as most my inputs are in
the %10 to %50 stick defection range, even when maneuvering hard at low
speeds.
Roger
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard
Vetterli
Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 3:05 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Y stick problem
I'm getting close to finishing my plane and I'm trying to solve one small
problem. I installed the center "Y" stick, which I love. However, I'm a
big guy and left part of the "Y" strikes my right leg, preventing full
aileron deflection. I've thought about cutting off the "y" and going with a
straight center stick. One other option that I'm thinking about is
fabricating a pivoting crossbar off of the center stick, with two grips on
the ends (like a Robinson R22). Any thought, pro or con.
Rich Vetterli
Pleasanton, CA
601XL/Corvair
Check out my progress at: www.geocities.com/stixx5a
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Absence of Evidence |
You forgot to mention that the NTSB and the FAA ran computer models deconstructing
the plane various times and building it by CAD CAM design various times,
and found that the plane is designed well, and has no bad tendencies and mostly
the models don't show any hidden or bad design characteristics.
What this means is in the Absense of speculation and mental masturbation, which
you guys keep doing to the point of bad chaffage,(makes for bigger calluses)
there was clear evidence that the pilots or the builders, notice the builders,
not the design, were the culprit. BUild it well, take care of it correctly,
fly it well makes for a safe plane.
YOu guys that are jerking your selves have taken a good name of a well designed
plane, and dragged it through the mud. from those of us that built one and now
have to defend its design to others becuase of a bunch of arm chair quarter
backs that refuse to look at clear evidence of crappy piloting and poor maintenace,
I say kiss my %$#!@. You get the picture.
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
>From: ihab.awad@gmail.com
>Sent: Feb 26, 2009 7:40 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Absence of Evidence
>
>
>On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 12:01 PM, roger lambert <n601ap@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Inprobability theory, absence of evidence is always evidence of absence.
>
>You are right, and I stand duly corrected. Thank you. Let me amend my ways:
>
>The fact that the Yuba City report states:
>
> "no oscillatory loading of the control surfaces was apparent"
>
>counts as evidence against flutter, but should not rule it out;
>furthermore, given the paucity of other hypotheses and the various
>reasons to continue to suspect flutter (including actual occurence of
>it in the fleet), we should continue to pursue this avenue in addition
>to others.
>
>Does this work better?
>
>Ihab
>
>--
>Ihab A.B. Awad, Palo Alto, CA
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Absence of Evidence |
Bravo ! Juan...............
----- Original Message -----
From: "Juan Vega" <amyvega2005@earthlink.net>
Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 2:48 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Absence of Evidence
>
> You forgot to mention that the NTSB and the FAA ran computer models
> deconstructing the plane various times and building it by CAD CAM design
> various times, and found that the plane is designed well, and has no bad
> tendencies and mostly the models don't show any hidden or bad design
> characteristics.
>
> What this means is in the Absense of speculation and mental masturbation,
> which you guys keep doing to the point of bad chaffage,(makes for bigger
> calluses) there was clear evidence that the pilots or the builders,
> notice the builders, not the design, were the culprit. BUild it well,
> take care of it correctly, fly it well makes for a safe plane.
> YOu guys that are jerking your selves have taken a good name of a well
> designed plane, and dragged it through the mud. from those of us that
> built one and now have to defend its design to others becuase of a bunch
> of arm chair quarter backs that refuse to look at clear evidence of crappy
> piloting and poor maintenace, I say kiss my %$#!@. You get the picture.
>
> do not archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: ihab.awad@gmail.com
>>Sent: Feb 26, 2009 7:40 PM
>>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Absence of Evidence
>>
>>
>>On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 12:01 PM, roger lambert <n601ap@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> In probability theory, absence of evidence is always evidence of
>>> absence.
>>
>>You are right, and I stand duly corrected. Thank you. Let me amend my
>>ways:
>>
>>The fact that the Yuba City report states:
>>
>> "no oscillatory loading of the control surfaces was apparent"
>>
>>counts as evidence against flutter, but should not rule it out;
>>furthermore, given the paucity of other hypotheses and the various
>>reasons to continue to suspect flutter (including actual occurence of
>>it in the fleet), we should continue to pursue this avenue in addition
>>to others.
>>
>>Does this work better?
>>
>>Ihab
>>
>>--
>>Ihab A.B. Awad, Palo Alto, CA
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Absence of Evidence |
On Sun, Mar 01, 2009 at 04:48:30PM -0500, Juan Vega wrote:
> What this means is in the Absense of speculation and mental masturbation,
> which you guys keep doing to the point of bad chaffage,(makes for bigger
> calluses) there was clear evidence that the pilots or the builders, notice
> the builders, not the design, were the culprit. BUild it well, take care
> of it correctly, fly it well makes for a safe plane.
There's only one problem with this: N158MD. ...unless you're saying that AMD
did a less than professional job of building it, or that the pilot somehow
screwed it up (which the NTSB also found no evidence of). There were
maintenance irregularities, but none of the ones noted would have caused the
observed failure.
Some of us are trying to get to the bottom of the issue. I've got documents
from several aeronautical engineers that agree that cable tension alone is
not acceptable as a means of flutter prevention. Is it the problem that
caused the unexplained inflight breakups? We don't know. Could it have done
so? Betcherass. We'd rather know than guess.
> YOu guys that are jerking your selves have taken a good name of a well
> designed plane, and dragged it through the mud. from those of us that
> built one and now have to defend its design to others becuase of a bunch
> of arm chair quarter backs that refuse to look at clear evidence of crappy
> piloting and poor maintenace, I say kiss my %$#!@. You get the picture.
"Crappy piloting and poor maintenance" will cause problems for any aircraft.
However, it's not been shown that that was the issue with *every* breakup.
Until it is, or until another cause is found and fixed, nothing we can do
will end the speculation.
I'm comfortable that my airplane is not any more likely than any other type
to have an inflight breakup: it was factory built, I maintain it religiously
according to the latest and best information available, and I fly it
conservatively. I spend a lot of time flying it. I'm also getting close to
taking my CFI-SP checkride in it with an examiner who's a homebuilder (I met
her when she flew her RV-4 to give a checkride at the airport I was getting
spin training at). If I thought there was a design flaw, I wouldn't even
consider any of that. Even so, if there turns out to be an issue, it'll be
dealt with as quickly as I can manage.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, AGI http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (KFRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Scratch builders, what did you build/what did you buy? |
Jon,
I'm building almost everything I can. All the material for most of the airplane
came at one time from a builder who purchased it then lost the ability to get
started. He sold it all to me along with some tools for his cost.
I also bought the upper rudder hinge, Trim Servos, Fuel caps and fittings and a
hardware kit from Zenith. I purchased the material for the firewall from a heating
and cooling shop for $24.
I am having a blast building. For the last couple of weeks I'm working on a tool
to make an aluminum nose bowl copied from the WW design.
I may draw the line at the propeller and buy that also.
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing
Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Corvair Engine Prints:
http://home.comcast.net/~rlendon/site/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=232647#232647
Message 14
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Is there an advantage of using a dab of a nickel mixture on electrical
connections? Thanks.
Wes & Lurlene Bressler
building a 601XL with Jabiru 3300
Do Not Archive
Message 15
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Anyone out there make gear jack pads like the ones described on page 89 of
the February 2009 _Sport Aviation_ for their Zodiac, especially with Grove
gear? How'd they work out? I love the idea, and they're probably within my
ability to make.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, AGI http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (KFRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml
Message 16
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| Subject: | Chat Room Reminder For "Digesters" |
We have a brand new chat room for the Zenith group ready for use. Please
click on the link below to be on your way there.
While at the web site, please take a look at the new stuff for Experimental
Aircraft Builders that I am in the process of making.
You can also look at it from the "Chat" page. Click on the link at the
bottom of the page to "Pop" it up.
May be something there that you will be able to use in your build. The
newest additions are CNC cut Insturment Bezels, Adaptors, and Cover Plates.
Coming soon, Tie Down Rings for the Ch-701 and a real neat Inspection
Opening Kit that will be ideal for the bottom of the CH-701 wings, along
with other aircraft.
http:// <http://www.mykitairplane.com> www.mykitairplane.com
George
Message 17
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|
| Subject: | Re: Scratch builders, what did you build/what did you buy? |
Jon,
I have scratch built a 601HD, what I tell people if you like to build
build, if you want to fly buy. Building especially scratch building is a
long process, it took me eight years, but I liked it. I liked being able
to make any part and as I got better at it, the better I liked it. As
far as what parts to buy, for my model probably 95% of the parts can be
formed on a 48 brake, buy or make one. The few parts that were longer,
rear Z elevator skin etc. I bought. The trick is to buy them all at once
otherwise the shipping and boxing will kill you. I bought all the eight
foot parts at once they arrived by a freight truck in a wooden box.
Using a trailer and my garden tractor moved it all to my shop. I
unpacked everything and could walk off with all of it under my arm. It
takes a 60 lb box to ship 5 pounds of aluminum. Otherwise if I bought
parts they were once of a kind or difficult for me to make, like landing
gear. I was able to buy out another builder and got a lot of these type
of parts. Keep an eye out for someone who wants out.
Tim Shankland
mcjon77 wrote:
>
>Hi guys,
>
>I would like to find out from the scratch builders, regardless of which model
zenith you built/are building, what parts did you make for yourself and what did
you buy from zenith? Also, if you were doing it over again, are there any
parts that you would have bought instead of building or built instead of buying
like you did before?
>
>Thanks,
>
>--------
>Jon McDonald
>Building Sonex #1287
>Thinking ahead about a Zenith CH 701 :D
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=232567#232567
>
>
>
>
Message 18
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|
| Subject: | Re: Y stick problem |
Rich,
Same here. I am a big guy too and do not have a problem in flight with the center
Y-stick. To perform full deflection left, I would have to move my right leg
over. This has not had to happen in flight. Since you say that you are pretty
close to being complete, you should go ahead and fly with it as is first.
Then, if you still think you need to change it, you will know exactly what you
want.
Good luck,
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL/Jabiru 3300
First flight 7/24/08
Phase I flight test complete 10/16/08
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=232688#232688
Message 19
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|
| Subject: | Re: Gear jack pads |
Jay,
I saw those also and plan on making some one day.
do not archive
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing
Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Corvair Engine Prints:
http://home.comcast.net/~rlendon/site/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=232690#232690
Message 20
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|
| Subject: | Re: Gear jack pads |
my set up is different. I took a 12 inch lift, and welded a 3 raidus plate to
top. then bolted a 16inch hydraulic jack to it. that way I can lift from the
Main bolt area as lift point.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Jay Maynard <jmaynard@conmicro.com>
>Sent: Mar 1, 2009 7:00 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Gear jack pads
>
>
>Anyone out there make gear jack pads like the ones described on page 89 of
>the February 2009 _Sport Aviation_ for their Zodiac, especially with Grove
>gear? How'd they work out? I love the idea, and they're probably within my
>ability to make.
>--
>Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, AGI http://www.conmicro.com
>http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
>Fairmont, MN (KFRM) (Yes, that's me!)
>AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml
>
>
Message 21
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|
| Subject: | re: Y stick problem |
I cut mine off, and it works just fine.....Fred Sanford N9601
Pix attached
do jnot archive
Message 22
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|
| Subject: | Official Zenith-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Zenith-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The
complete Zenith-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Zenith-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
[ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as
Courier. Proportional fonts will cause display formatting errors. ]
This FAQ can also be viewed in HTML online at the following address:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm
************************************************************
******* LIST POLICIES AND FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS *******
************************************************************
PLEASE READ. This document contains Zenith-List policies and information
for new and old subscribers. Understanding the Zenith-List policies will
minimize problems for the Administrator, and will help keep the Zenith-List
running smoothly for all of us.
******************************************
*** Quick Start Guide to List Features ***
******************************************
There are many features available on the Matronics Email Lists and each
one is described in detailed below. However, using the List Navigator
you can quickly access the complete set of features available for this
List. The List Navigator can be found at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
****************************************
*** How to Subscribe and Unsubscribe ***
****************************************
Simply go to the Web Page shown below and enter your email address and
select the List(s) that you wish to subscribe or unsubscribed from. You
may also use the handy "Find" function to determine the exact syntax of
your email address as it is subscribed to the List. Please see the
complete instructions at the top of the Web Page for more information.
The Subscribe/Unsubscribe web page is:
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Note that you will receive TWO conformation emails regarding your subsciption
process. The first verifies that your subscription/unsubsciption request
was received, and the second confirms that the process has been completed.
You should receive the first email within a few minutes of your request.
The second conformation will arrive in less than 24 hours. You cannot post
until you receive the second conformation email message.
*****************************
*** How to Post a Message ***
*****************************
Send an email message to:
zenith-list@matronics.com
Your message will be redistributed to everyone currently subscribed
to the List.
*****************************************************
*** SPAM Fighter - You Must be Subscribed to Post ***
*****************************************************
When a new post is received by the system, the From: line of the message
is checked and compared against the current subscription list. If the
email address is found, the message is passed on to the List Processor.
If the email address isn't found in the current list of subscribers, it
is dumped. This serves to very effectively thwart 99% of the SPAM that
gets posted to the Lists.
Remember, however, that the syntax of your email address is very important
with regard to the configuration of your email application such as Outlook
or Eudora. For example, the following two email addresses may be
functionally equivalent, but only one would pass the Matronics Email SPAM
test depending on which was syntax was subscribed to the given List:
smith@machine.domain.com
smith@domain.com
Either email address syntax is alright, just be sure that you configure
your email application to match *exactly* the address you've subscibed to
the List.
**************************************
*** Enclosure Support on the Lists ***
**************************************
Limited posting of enclosures such as pictures, documents, and spreadsheets
is supported on the Lists. There are a number of restrictions, and these
are detailed below. Please abide by the rules put forth regarding the
content of enclosures.
These are some of the features and limits of enclosures on the Matronics
Lists:
1) Enclosures will only be posted to the Real Time version of the Lists.
2) Enclosures will NOT be included in the Daily Digest version of the Lists.
3) Enclosures WILL BE forwarded on to the BBS Forum Web site.
4) Enclosures will NOT be appended to the Archives.
5) Enclosures will NOT be available in the List Browse feature.
6) Only the following file types and extensions will be allowed:
bmp doc dwg dxf gif jpg pdf png txt xls
All other enclosures types will be rejected and email returned to
sender. The enclosure types listed above are relatively safe from
a virus standpoint and don't pose a particularly large security risk.
7) !! All incoming enclosures will be scanned for viruses prior to posting
to the List. This is done in real time and will not slow down
the process of posting the message !!
Here are some rules for posting enclosures. Failure to abide by these rules
could result in the removal of a subscriber's email address from the Lists.
1) Pay attention to what you are posting!! Make sure that the files
you are enclosing aren't HUGE (greater that 1MB). Remember that there
are still people checking they're email via dial up modem. If you post
30MB worth of pictures, you are placing an unnecessary burden on these
folks and the rest of us, for that matter.
2) SCALE YOUR PICTURES DOWN!!! I don't want to see huge 3000 x 2000
pictures getting posted that are 3 or 4MB each. This is just
unacceptable. Use a program such as Photoshop to scale the picture
down to something on the order of 800 x 600 and try to keep the
file size to less-than 200KB, preferably much less.
Microsoft has a really awesome utility available for free that allows
you to Right-Click on a picture in Explorer and automatically
scale it down and resave it. This is a great utility - get it, use it!
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx
Look for the link "Image Resizer"
3) !! This would seem to go without saying, but I'll say it anyway. Do not
post anything that would be considered offensive by your grandmother.
And you know what I'm saying; I don't want to see anything even
questionable. !!
4) REMEMBER THIS: If you post a 1MB enclosure to a List with 1000 members
subscribed, your 1MB enclosure must be resent 1000 times amounting
to 1MB X 1000 = 1 Gigabyte of network traffic!! BE CAREFUL and
BE COURTEOUS!
Also see the section below on the Matronics Photo and File Share where
you can have your files and photos posted on the Matronics web server
for long time viewing and availability.
*******************
*** Digest Mode ***
*******************
Each day, starting at 12 midnight PST US, a new 'digest' will be started.
This digest will contain the same information that is currently appended
to the archive file. It has all of the headers except for the "From:"
and "Subject:" lines removed, and includes a message separator consisting
of a line of underscores.
Each day at 23:55 PST US, the day's messages as described above will be
combined and sent as a single message to everyone on the digest email list.
To subscribe to the digest list, use the same subscription web form
described above, and just select the Digest version of the List.
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Note that you *can* be subscribed to both the realtime and digest versions
of the List at the same time. This is perfectly acceptable.
Now some caveats:
* Messages sent to "zenith-list-digest" will be forwarded to the standard
email list. In other words, you cannot post messages only to the
digest List.
* If you are subscribed to both the regular List and the digest List, you
will receive the realtime postings as well as the digest at the end of
the day.
* If you reply to the digest email, your message will be forwarded to the
normal list associated with the digest. Important Note: Please change
the subject line to reflect the topic of your response! Also, please
*do not include all or most of the digest in your reply*.
****************************
*** List Digest Browser ***
****************************
An archive of all the List Digests can be found online in either plain text
or HTML format. These archives contain the exact Digest that was posted to
the Digest email list on the given day. The Digest Archives can be found
at the following location:
http://www.matronics.com/digest
*****************************************
*** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag ***
*****************************************
At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to a very
small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to archive
it. In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in the
message:
do not archive
Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to List
email distribution as normal.
**********************************************
***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes *****
**********************************************
Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounced
email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your address will be promptly
removed from the List. If you discover that you are no longer receiving
messages from the Zenith-List, go to the following Web page, and look
for your email address and a possible reason for your removal.
The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that
automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that
caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox
full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the
Lists you will find record of it at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed
If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel
free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice.
*******************************
*** List Member Information ***
*******************************
If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and
paper mail address in the following format:
smith@somehost.com
Joe Smith
123 Airport Lane
Tower, CA 91234-1234
098-765-1234 w
123-456-7890 h
Please forward this information to the following email address:
requests@matronics.com
I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when
there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT
be used for any other commercial purpose.
****************************************
*** Realtime Web Email List Browsing ***
****************************************
Recent messages posted to the Zenith-List are also made available on
the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are
available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject,
Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are
updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message
or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon).
You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List
Browser Interface in view-mode.
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/zenith-list
*******************************************
*** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface ***
*******************************************
A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all Zenith-List content.
content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email
distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the
List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the
respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to
the web Forums.
You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login.
If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you
will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few
minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the
main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also
enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to
Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the
Email Distribution of the List, however.
The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL:
http://forums.matronics.com
*********************************
*** Matronics Email List Wiki ***
*********************************
In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed
information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at:
http://wiki.matronics.com
The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information
for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page
where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki
permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately.
While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be
comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any
images and email it to:
wiki-support@matronics.com
One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct
a Wiki page for you.
Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the
Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that
post and convert it into a Wiki page.
*********************
*** List Archives ***
*********************
A file containing of all of the previous postings to the Zenith-List is
available on line. The archive file information is available via the
Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below:
* Zenith-List.FAQ
- Latest version of the Zenith-List Frequently Asked Question
page (this document).
* Zenith-Archive.digest.complete
- Complete file with most of the email header info removed and
page breaks inserted between messages.
* Zenith-Archive.digest.vol-??
- Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that
can more easily handled.
* Zenith-Archive.digest.complete.zip
- Same as the Zenith-Archive.digest.complete file above, but
in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
* Zenith-Archive.digest.complete.Z
- Same as the Zenith-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in
UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
Download Via FTP
----------------
The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com
in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in
a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.)
ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives
Download Via Web
----------------
The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found
toward the bottom of the following web page:
http://www.matronics.com/archives
******************************************
*** Complete List Web Archive Browsing ***
******************************************
All messages posted to the Zenith-List are also available using the
Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages
in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed.
http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?Zenith
*****************************************
**** High-Speed Archive Search Engine ***
*****************************************
You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine
to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the
List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently
available List archives.
http://www.matronics.com/search
****************************
*** File and Photo Share ***
****************************
With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures
and other data with members of the List without having to forward a
copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email
them to:
pictures@matronics.com
!! ==> Please including the following information with each submission:
1) Email Lists that they are related to.
2) Your Full Name.
3) Your Email Address.
4) One line Subject description.
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic.
6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file
Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned
for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and
photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to
process them every few days.
Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be
sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new
Share is available and what the direct URL to it is.
For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main
Index Page:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
**************************
*** List Archive CDROM ***
**************************
A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains
all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives
for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search
engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it
and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make
great gifts!
http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM
**********************************
*** List Support Contributions ***
**********************************
The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members.
You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of
annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages
associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November
I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month,
I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they
are comfortable.
I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the
Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated
by companies that are themselves List members.
Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists
including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server
system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many
many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the
variety of services found here.
Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary
and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains
value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude.
Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just
subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in.
The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are
a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and
sending a personal check.
If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to
support its continued operation?
http://www.matronics.com/contributions
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Zenith-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Zenith-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Zenith-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Zenith-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Zenith-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
Message 23
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Official Zenith-List Usage Guidelines |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Zenith-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
Zenith-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Zenith-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Zenith-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Zenith-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Zenith-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Zenith-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Zenith-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
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