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Yak'in Cross Country
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fish(at)aviation-tech.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 9:38 pm Post subject: Yak'in Cross Country

Clif,



In 2003/04 when I was flying as a Flight Engineer on C-130's

out of Quatar (into Iraq, Afganistan, Pakastan and Jabouty)

we carried the M-9 (Berrata 92F, pop gun). 



Fly Safe

John Fischer



----- Original Message Follows -----

From: "netmaster15(at)juno.com" <netmaster15(at)juno.com>

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Yak'in Cross Country

Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 04:42:35 GMT



[quote] Doc or Brian,

 My son just returned from Kandahar in Afghanastan; his

 Guard unit flies C-130s. I asked him what kind of side

 arms he carried, he said he was only allowed to carry

 standard gov issue- whatever that was I don't recall. I

 wanted him to carry my 1911 model Colt 45  which i've had

 since WW 2 ; it appears not to be acceptable to the

 present day command;. from your experience ,have YOU

 encountered such restriction?  If so, what is the reason ?

  Thanks for your response. Cliff  Umscheid

  

 

 

 

 -- "Roger  Kemp" <viperdoc(at)mindspring.com> wrote:

 

 <viperdoc(at)mindspring.com>

 

 Yes, Berretta's. No Mark I have a Browning. It was easier

 to get parts for at the time as we were converting from

 S&W .38's. Now those were pop guns.  Doc

 

 --

viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 9:53 pm Post subject: Yak'in Cross Country

Don’t know about a 50 cal 6 shot pistol but our SOS guys and the Army snipers have a new 50 auto sniper rifle.   

Otherwise a .454 magnum would be a nice choice. Load hollow points and you have stopping power.   

Can’t believe that a couple of my friends stalked those things feeding on trout with bows. They were not stupid though. They did have a guide backing them up with a 7 mm Mag auto.  

       

From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of cjpilot710(at)aol.com

 Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 8:02 PM

 To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Yak'in Cross Country  

  

  

     

   

    

All this gun stuff.  In the Army I was in, they taught us how to shoot to kill the first shoot and that huge bore guns were just to heavy.  And using my Army taught skills, I killed many a deer with a single shot (30.06) (one at 325yds).  So as survival gun I figured one only needed to carry something like the little folding 410/22 the USAF used to issue years ago.  I mean like you need only a bird or rabbit to get you though.  Right?  

    

   

    

That is until I found a couple of pictures out of Alaska.  A Forest Service guy HAD to kill a charging grizzly.   This bear stood over 14' tall (12'6" at the shoulder).  The ranger emptied his 7mm Mag before the bear fell.  Still alive, he reloaded and pumped several rounds into its head.  This bear's paws were bigger than this guys chest.  It is the biggest grizzly on record.  They later found the remains of a hiker that the bear had kill a few day earlier, who had emptied his 38 into the bear.  

    

   

    

Since I plan at some time in my short remaining life to fly my CJ to Alaska (yea sure), does anyone know where I can get a 50 cal 10 shot, full automatic pistol?  

    

   

    

Jim "Pappy" Goolsby  

    

   

    

   

      

In a message dated 11/16/2007 8:22:20 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, viperdoc(at)mindspring.com writes:  

  [quote]  

--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger  Kemp" <viperdoc(at)mindspring.com>

 

 Jan,

 You are absolutely right. Freedom comes with a Price. It has to be paid in

 blood about every 20 years otherwise the Tyrants take over uncontested. That

 is why the politicians do not want the citizens armed. That is why some of

 our left leaning leaders want us disarmed also.

 Thank you, but I feel safer knowing I can defend myself rather than waiting

 on the response time of our city police!

 Doc

 

 --

fish(at)aviation-tech.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 9:54 pm Post subject: Yak'in Cross Country

Brian,



The government is afraid we may actually hurt someone if

they gave us a real gun.



I was going to buy a compact Glock .40 Cal today, but they

were sold out. I carry a .45 cal Glock (Model 21) at work

and love it, but I need something smaller for off duty

(concealed carry).



Fly Safe

John Fischer

California City, CA



----- Original Message Follows -----

From: Brian Lloyd <brian-1927(at)lloyd.com>

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Yak'in Cross Country

Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 16:53:01 -0800



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <brian-1927(at)lloyd.com>

 

 

 On Nov 15, 2007, at 2:18 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det

 Cherry Point,   MALS-14 64E wrote:

 

 > 

 > Det Cherry   Point, MALS-14 64E"

 <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil> >

 > Absolutely.  If I owned the Taurus Judge, I would

 > recommend it over every other weapon to carry on a cross

 > country.  No question.  I would be hard put to not bring

 > along my Kimber .45ACP CDP though.  I feel   kind

 > of naked without it.  In Iraq I carry a 9mm popgun,

 > probably the   same as

 > yours Doc!  

 

 Why would anyone carry a 9mm, especially into combat?

 

 --

 Brian Lloyd                         3191 Western Drive

 brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com    Cameron Park, CA

 95682 +1.916.367.2131 (voice)             +1.270.912.0788

 (fax)

 

 I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of

 petty things . . . — Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

 

 PGP key ID:          12095C52A32A1B6C

 PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0  CC09 1209

 5C52 A32A 1B6C

 

 

 

 

 



Month --
	


 

 

 	  Quote: 	
		      -Matt Dralle, List Admin.



Photoshare
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List



-->
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   http://forums.matronics.com



 ===

desmor944(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 7:02 am Post subject: Yak'in Cross Country

[quote]-

cjpilot710(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 7:09 am Post subject: Yak'in Cross Country

Thanks!  I'll consider it!  

  

  In a message dated 11/17/2007 10:03:04 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  desmor944(at)aol.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		      	  Quote: 	
		  ----Original      Message-----

From: cjpilot710(at)aol.com

To:      yak-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 9:01 pm

Subject: Re:      Yak'in Cross Country



	
       

   All this gun stuff.  In the Army I was in, they taught us how to    shoot to kill the first shoot and that huge bore guns were just to    heavy.  And using my Army taught skills, I killed many a deer with a    single shot (30.06) (one at 325yds).  So as survival gun I    figured one only needed to carry something like the little folding 410/22 the    USAF used to issue years ago.  I mean like you need only a bird or rabbit    to get you though.  Right?

    

   That is until I found a couple of pictures out of Alaska.  A Forest    Service guy HAD to kill a charging grizzly.   This bear stood over    14' tall (12'6" at the shoulder).  The ranger emptied his 7mm Mag before    the bear fell.  Still alive, he reloaded and pumped several rounds into    its head.  This bear's paws were bigger than this guys chest.  It is    the biggest grizzly on record.  They later found the remains of a hiker    that the bear had kill a few day earlier, who had emptied his 38 into the    bear.

    

   Since I plan at some time in my short remaining life to fly my CJ to    Alaska (yea sure), does anyone know where I can get a 50 cal 10 shot,    full automatic pistol?

    

   Jim "Pappy" Goolsby

   

 

   

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Jim,



Not    exactly what you specified, but check out www.magnumresearch.com .



The    Desert Eagle in .50AE with a 7 round magazine comes    close.



Rich





         More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail!



 	  Quote: 	
		  



://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com

brian-1927(at)lloyd.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 5:07 pm Post subject: Yak'in Cross Country

On Nov 16, 2007, at 6:01 PM, cjpilot710(at)aol.com wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Since I plan at some time in my short remaining life to fly my CJ  

 to Alaska (yea sure), does anyone know where I can get a 50 cal 10  

 shot, full automatic pistol?


	


Some times a long gun just makes more sense. If I am going to have to  

take on a grizzly, I want at least a .308.

--

Brian Lloyd                         3191 Western Drive

brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com    Cameron Park, CA 95682

+1.916.367.2131 (voice)             +1.270.912.0788 (fax)



I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .

— Antoine de Saint-Exupéry



PGP key ID:          12095C52A32A1B6C

PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0  CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C

rvfltd(at)televar.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 9:15 am Post subject: Yak'in Cross Country

Brian and Pappy,

It all boils down to a matter of choice and options, with a 308 you have 

few options.  A model 12 Winchester pump gun is my favorite to carry in 

the Cub.  Stay away from the auto loaders, to many moving parts.  If 

your in bear country (remove the plug) load it slug X 4, and then 3 dbl 

0 buck, total of 7 rounds.   Just hold the trigger back and pump it.  

There is no bear alive that can stand up to that kind of punishment.  Or 

if your trying to knock down a grouse for dinner take along some #6 duck 

loads.  This advice was given to me many years ago by one of the oldest 

(and still alive) bear guides in Alaska. 

Always Yakin,

Doug

Brian Lloyd wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 On Nov 16, 2007, at 6:01 PM, cjpilot710(at)aol.com wrote:

> Since I plan at some time in my short remaining life to fly my CJ  to 

> Alaska (yea sure), does anyone know where I can get a 50 cal 10  

> shot, full automatic pistol?

 Some times a long gun just makes more sense. If I am going to have to  

 take on a grizzly, I want at least a .308.

 -- 

 Brian Lloyd                         3191 Western Drive

 brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com    Cameron Park, CA 95682

 +1.916.367.2131 (voice)             +1.270.912.0788 (fax)

 I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .

 — Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

 PGP key ID:          12095C52A32A1B6C

 PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0  CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C

brian-1927(at)lloyd.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 9:41 am Post subject: Yak'in Cross Country

On Nov 18, 2007, at 9:13 AM, Doug Sapp wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Brian and Pappy,

 It all boils down to a matter of choice and options, with a 308 you  

 have few options.  A model 12 Winchester pump gun is my favorite to  

 carry in the Cub.  Stay away from the auto loaders, to many moving  

 parts.  If your in bear country (remove the plug) load it slug X 4,  

 and then 3 dbl 0 buck, total of 7 rounds.   Just hold the trigger  

 back and pump it.  There is no bear alive that can stand up to that  

 kind of punishment.  Or if your trying to knock down a grouse for  

 dinner take along some #6 duck loads.  This advice was given to me  

 many years ago by one of the oldest (and still alive) bear guides  

 in Alaska.


	


Ah, good point. Not being a shotgun man myself I tend to forget that  

option. For taking care of yourself it is hard to beat a pump-action  

with alternating 00-buckshot and slugs. If the 00-buck doesn't stop  

them it will certainly slow them down long enough to do the job with  

a slug.



--

Brian Lloyd                         3191 Western Drive

brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com    Cameron Park, CA 95682

+1.916.367.2131 (voice)             +1.270.912.0788 (fax)



I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .

— Antoine de Saint-Exupéry



PGP key ID:          12095C52A32A1B6C

PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0  CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 11:40 am Post subject: Yak'in Cross Country

You are absolutely correct.  However, with all due respect... The Air Force has always been very fond of the rules.  The Marine Corps is too, until the rules get in the way of accomplishing the mission, and then they go right out the window.  



Fact is, it is well nigh impossible to tell the difference between a 1911A1 .45 issued by the Govt., and a 1911A1 issued by the Govt.!!!  If Cliff's weapon is indeed an original Govt. issued model, the very only person who could ever tell the difference is the Amorer.  If that gent is willing to draw up an "Issue Card" on the weapon, he is just about... Within a bare fraction, of actually putting it BACK into Govt. service.  Not quite... And yes, it would be not quite legal. However, if you take that route, the Armorer checks it out and makes sure it is safe, and thereby accomplishes the main mission, and also can come to get it when you no longer are allowed to carry it.   



This is not an argument, it's just a statement of fact.  "Zero Tolerance" is a matter of perspective and if you don't believe that, you ought to check out what SpecOps members carry, or better yet see examples of how individual units have directly purchased things like weapon accessories, body armor, etc.  



Typically when you are in a unit that is actually getting shot at and people are ending up dead and wounded, "Zero Tolerance" tends to be something other than "Zero" anymore, and personally, that is a circumstance that I support as well. 



Of course many people would call me a criminal for evening voicing such an view.  Oh well. 



Mark Bitterlich

 



--

brian-1927(at)lloyd.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 12:02 pm Post subject: Yak'in Cross Country

On Nov 19, 2007, at 11:39 AM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry  

Point, MALS-14 64E wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   This is not an argument, it's just a statement of fact.  "Zero  

 Tolerance" is a matter of perspective and if you don't believe  

 that, you ought to check out what SpecOps members carry, or better  

 yet see examples of how individual units have directly purchased  

 things like weapon accessories, body armor, etc.


	


In support of your statement, my sons and I were guests of one of the  

instructors at SEAL school in Coronado. (He and I had done some  

formation training together.) The members of the Team currently in  

residence were showing us their issued arms and then the stuff they  

had chosen to carry. It wasn't necessarily the same stuff. Their  

armorer was in hog heaven as he got to go for training in everybody's  

chosen sidearms.



 	  Quote: 	
		   Typically when you are in a unit that is actually getting shot at  

 and people are ending up dead and wounded, "Zero Tolerance" tends  

 to be something other than "Zero" anymore, and personally, that is  

 a circumstance that I support as well.


	


And that seemed to be their attitude as well. They tend to find  

themselves in combat situations a lot, even in "peacetime". Results  

are what matter.



OTOH, the Teams are relatively small units that can get away with a  

degree of non-standardization. I can imagine the logistical nightmare  

of running an entire army that way.

 	  Quote: 	
		   Of course many people would call me a criminal for evening voicing  

 such an view.  Oh well.


	


Mark, you are *SO* bad. 



--

Brian Lloyd                         3191 Western Drive

brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com    Cameron Park, CA 95682

+1.916.367.2131 (voice)             +1.270.912.0788 (fax)



I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .

— Antoine de Saint-Exupéry



PGP key ID:          12095C52A32A1B6C

PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0  CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C

viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 12:30 pm Post subject: Yak'in Cross Country

No doubt, I have seen some unique weapons carried. Just for the fighter

aircrew, it is frowned on to have a personal weapon. Again I have seen

different carried and also know what happened to that weapon when it was

discovered. I would hate to lose a family heirloom.

Doc



--

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 12:44 pm Post subject: Yak'in Cross Country

By the way, there is also the 50 GL.  It is a .50 cal pistol built around a 1911 frame.  Of course it is Semi-Auto, but with a little modding and proof that you have the right license, I am sure we can get it to go full auto.  I'd love to see anyone try to hold on to it though...... 



Or... We could also cut down a Ma-Deuce.  



Mgb

 



--

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 1:01 pm Post subject: Yak'in Cross Country

I thought you were joking. I am very sorry.  You're serious?  Well, in

truth as you probably know, there is the .50 S&W Revolver, with which

you can get some very serious loads out of.  There is also the .50 GL

which is a 50 cal built on a 1911 frame. There is also the .50 Desert

Eagle.  I think... Personally.... I would opt for a 12 gage pump, with

pistol grip cut down to "barely legal" and would use the .50 S&W Mag

with some really hot loads set up for heavy penetration.  



And then I'd pray.  



Mark Bitterlich

 



--

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 1:04 pm Post subject: Yak'in Cross Country

Doc... Hollow points not recommended on bear.  Their hides and fat make such loads totally ineffectual, other than really pissing that critter off big time.  You want to go for deep penetration and go for the heart/lungs first.  Even then, it can get really scary with Alaskan Brown.   Better you than me....  



Mark

--

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 1:06 pm Post subject: Yak'in Cross Country

For a good backup weapon, take a look at the Rohrbach R9S  (9mm) NOT CHEAP.  



Mark Bitterlich

 



--

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 1:08 pm Post subject: Yak'in Cross Country

Jan, come on over... I'll find you a place you can afford!  



Mark

 



--

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 1:20 pm Post subject: Yak'in Cross Country

But DOC... HE IS NOT IN THE AIR FORCE!     Heh heh.... 



Mark



P.s.  I have a tube of sealant if you want me to send it.   



--

jan.mevis(at)informavia.b
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 1:24 pm Post subject: Yak'in Cross Country

Only if I can bring my Yak 50 with me ....



--

pfstelwagon(at)earthlink.
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 1:49 pm Post subject: Yak'in Cross Country

What does this have to do with aircraft??

---

viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 2:50 pm Post subject: Yak'in Cross Country

Well damned...needs to be!

Will see if I need the sealant after this evening. I am going to put fuel in

her and see if it leaks! If it does, there is a ton of Pro Seal to scrap and

sand off!

Doc



--

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