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tcervin(at)embarqmail.com
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 Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:06 pm Post subject: Alternative engines |
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Sorry Sam is right your engine can no longer be installed in a "Certified Aircraft" that the engine was originally designed for. A complete tear-down and re-certification by an authorized A&P or repair station would be required to return it's original certified application.
Tom in Ohio
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bicyclop(at)pacbell.net
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| Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:22 pm Post subject: Alternative engines |
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Hey Mike,
I agree with you that the data plate doesn't have to be removed, but
what if maintainence (other than preventive) is signed off by a person
without a powerplant license? I don't think you could legally transplant
the engine back into a Cessna or Piper without an overhaul. And just to
be picky, I don't think the engine carries an airworthiness cert. It
does comply with a TCDS, though.
Pax,
Ed Holyoke
michael.phil(at)ca.rr.com wrote:
| Quote: |
I disagree. The Lycoming engine leaves the factory with an airworthiness certificate and as long as it is properly maintained and all AD's are complied with, the airworhiness certificate remains valid.
---- Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> wrote:
>
>
> c.ennis(at)insightbb.com wrote:
>
>> John, As just another RV builder/flyer I really don't have any
>> insight into what's right or what's wrong about flying with auto
>> fuel, I only know what I read. Having said that, I fly with a
>> certified Lycoming in my experimental aircraft. In order to maintain
>> that certification it has to continue to meet all of the original
>> factory specs. Changing parts, wether fuel system seals or the whole
>> carburation system to some other special improved system, voids the
>> certification and I must remove the factory data plate from my
>> engine. I realize that some would see no problem with this, though it
>> does reduce the perceived value of your aircraft in some buyers
>> minds. <snip>
>>
> You can't have a "certified" engine in an experimental aircraft. You no
> doubt maintain your engine the same way it would be in an aircraft with
> a standard airworthiness certificate, and that may indeed enhance the
> resale value, but the engine in your RV ain't "certified" to anything. 
>
> Sam Buchanan
>
>
>
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sbuc(at)hiwaay.net
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Kellym
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1706
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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| Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 6:22 pm Post subject: Alternative engines |
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Which is irrelevant to whether it is certified or not. As long as it is
still in its TCDS condition with the same accessories, it can go from
one experimental to another, and only a 25 hour fly off will be
required. As soon as you change something from that certified
configuration, a 40 hour test flight period is supposed to be required.
No one in their right mind is going to source an engine for a certified
aircraft from an experimental aircraft unless they are desperate. No, a
full overhaul would neither be required to determine conformity, nor
would an IA in their right mind do one if they were trying to minimize
cost/down time. Pulling a couple cylinders to verify the integrity of
the lower end, or a teardown and reassembly would be the likely action.
Cost would be less than 1/2 of an overhaul.
KM
A&P/IA
EAA Tech Counselor
Sam Buchanan wrote:
| Quote: | However......how many IA's will you find who will put their career on
the line without tearing down the engine and making SURE it meets
specifications before signing the book?
So yes, the engine will get an overhaul before going back into a Cessna.
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_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD |
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sbuc(at)hiwaay.net
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 6:41 pm Post subject: Alternative engines |
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Kelly McMullen wrote:
| Quote: |
Which is irrelevant to whether it is certified or not. As long as it is
still in its TCDS condition with the same accessories, it can go from
one experimental to another, and only a 25 hour fly off will be
required. As soon as you change something from that certified
configuration, a 40 hour test flight period is supposed to be required.
No one in their right mind is going to source an engine for a certified
aircraft from an experimental aircraft unless they are desperate. No, a
full overhaul would neither be required to determine conformity, nor
would an IA in their right mind do one if they were trying to minimize
cost/down time. Pulling a couple cylinders to verify the integrity of
the lower end, or a teardown and reassembly would be the likely action.
Cost would be less than 1/2 of an overhaul.
KM
A&P/IA
EAA Tech Counselor
|
Agreed. "Teardown" is the preferred term to "overhaul". But...if there
was *any* question about the integrity of the engine I bet it would get
an overhaul in most shops. And I doubt a concern to minimize the
customer's cost/downtime will override the understandable determination
to protect the career of the IA.
Sam Buchanan
=====================
| Quote: |
Sam Buchanan wrote:
> However......how many IA's will you find who will put their career on
> the line without tearing down the engine and making SURE it meets
> specifications before signing the book?
>
> So yes, the engine will get an overhaul before going back into a Cessna.
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Kellym
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1706
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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| Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 7:03 pm Post subject: Alternative engines |
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I don't believe you understand the difference between teardown
inspection and an overhaul. The former is nothing more than take it
apart, inspect the parts, measure dimensions, and reassemble with new
gaskets, and hopefully new bearings. Time SMOH continues on the engine.
Overhaul requires that parts be at least within service limits(most are
done to new limits), and manufacturer's recommendations for parts
replacement should be done, to give zero SMOH time and reasonable chance
of making TBO. Stuff like valves, valve seats, pistons normally get
replaced. On a teardown only the bearings and rings and gaskets would
get replaced, just like a prop strike inspection.
Sam Buchanan wrote:
| Quote: |
Agreed. "Teardown" is the preferred term to "overhaul". But...if there
was *any* question about the integrity of the engine I bet it would
get an overhaul in most shops. And I doubt a concern to minimize the
customer's cost/downtime will override the understandable
determination to protect the career of the IA.
Sam Buchanan
===========================================================
_
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_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD |
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sbuc(at)hiwaay.net
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 7:50 pm Post subject: Alternative engines |
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Kelly McMullen wrote:
| Quote: |
I don't believe you understand the difference between teardown
inspection and an overhaul. The former is nothing more than take it
apart, inspect the parts, measure dimensions, and reassemble with new
gaskets, and hopefully new bearings. Time SMOH continues on the engine.
Overhaul requires that parts be at least within service limits(most are
done to new limits), and manufacturer's recommendations for parts
replacement should be done, to give zero SMOH time and reasonable chance
of making TBO. Stuff like valves, valve seats, pistons normally get
replaced. On a teardown only the bearings and rings and gaskets would
get replaced, just like a prop strike inspection.
|
Uhhhhhh, I think we are saying the same thing.
I'm well aware of the difference between teardown and overhaul.
Sam Buchanan
=========================
| Quote: |
Sam Buchanan wrote:
>
> Agreed. "Teardown" is the preferred term to "overhaul". But...if there
> was *any* question about the integrity of the engine I bet it would
> get an overhaul in most shops. And I doubt a concern to minimize the
> customer's cost/downtime will override the understandable
> determination to protect the career of the IA.
>
> Sam Buchanan
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